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JFK Book Reviews - A Woman I Know By Mary Haverstick · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up? Everybody.
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Speaker 2: Welcome into JFK Book Reviews, a division of the Lonecomeing Podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: I am Rob Clark, he is Joe Borelli, and today
0:10
Speaker 2: we've got a doozy for you. It is called A
0:15
Speaker 2: Woman I Know by Mary Haverstick, female splies, double identities,
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Speaker 2: and a news story of the Kennedy assassination, which certainly
0:28
Speaker 2: sounds intriguing Jo for sure.
0:32
Speaker 3: Yep, and this thick it's over five pages.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yep, got a little bickness to it.
0:43
Speaker 2: The book was published in twenty twenty three under the
0:47
Speaker 2: Crown Publishing House banner, a division of I Believe Penguin.
0:55
Speaker 1: Random House. So you know fairly about reputation there.
1:01
Speaker 3: Yeah BSDs.
1:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't like it was self published or anything.
1:06
Speaker 2: So this book clocks in at five hundred and twenty pages.
1:13
Speaker 1: Joe. It does include a prelude, a story told.
1:20
Speaker 2: In three acts, broke down into ten chapters, with an epilogue,
1:26
Speaker 2: two appendices, an index, acknowledgments, and epilogue notes, photograph and
1:33
Speaker 2: photograph credits.
1:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot here, and.
1:40
Speaker 2: It definitely as a conspiracy leaning to it, as we
1:44
Speaker 2: will soon find out.
1:45
Speaker 1: Joe.
1:47
Speaker 2: Please let's get into some meat and taters of a woman.
1:52
Speaker 3: I know. Okay, women or women is of course the
1:57
Speaker 3: big question here, and it really starts off talking about
2:04
Speaker 3: kind of Jerry Cobb, who was an American pilot and aviator.
2:09
Speaker 3: She was part of the Mercury thirteen, a group of
2:12
Speaker 3: women who underwent psychological screening tests at the time of
2:19
Speaker 3: the original Mercury seven astronauts, and was the first to
2:24
Speaker 3: complete each of these tests. Cobb set three aviation records
2:29
Speaker 3: in her twenties. She was born in Oklahoma, which is
2:34
Speaker 3: going to be kind of crucial to the story. She
2:38
Speaker 3: was the daughter of Lieutenant Colonel William Cobb, and so
2:47
Speaker 3: she grew up in Oklahoma, took to aviation at an
2:51
Speaker 3: early age, obviously with her father's encouragement. She first flew
2:57
Speaker 3: at the age of twelve. And you know, there's a
3:03
Speaker 3: lot about how women at that time, in you know,
3:09
Speaker 3: the fifties and sixties were really discriminated upon about about
3:15
Speaker 3: being pilots.
3:17
Speaker 2: Yes, she should be barefully pregnant in the kitchen, stirring
3:21
Speaker 2: my pasta sauce right about.
3:23
Speaker 3: Now, Yes, Cobb, this is Jerry Cobb. Then began over
3:33
Speaker 3: thirty years of missionary work in South America performing humanitarian
3:40
Speaker 3: flying as well as surveying new air routes to remote areas.
3:46
Speaker 3: Cob quote pioneered new air routes across the hazardous Andes
3:52
Speaker 3: Mountains and Amazon rainforests, using self drawn maps and flying
3:59
Speaker 3: over territory. Essentially, she was actually in popular culture. There
4:08
Speaker 3: was a playmate about her. In twenty seventeen, they promised
4:12
Speaker 3: her The Moon that tells the story of Jerry Cobb
4:15
Speaker 3: and her struggle to become an astronaut, and also in
4:22
Speaker 3: is portrayed by Mamie Gummer in the twenty twenty Disney
4:26
Speaker 3: Plus series The Right Stuff and Bro. If you want
4:32
Speaker 3: to say this woman did not have awards aviation awards,
4:38
Speaker 3: you would be wrong, because she got the Amelia Earhart
4:42
Speaker 3: Gold Medal of Achievement, named Woman of the Year in
4:45
Speaker 3: Aviation Pilot of the Year by the National Pilots Association.
4:50
Speaker 3: Fourth American to be awarded gold Wings of the Federation
4:56
Speaker 3: and not something in Paris, France, I'm trying to pronounce that.
5:01
Speaker 3: Honored by the Government of Ecuador for paramount pioneering new
5:05
Speaker 3: air routes nineteen sixty two, received a Golden Plate Award
5:10
Speaker 3: from the American Academy of Achievement nineteen seventy three, awarded
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Speaker 3: the Harmon International Trophy the World's Best Woman Pilot by
5:23
Speaker 3: Richard Nixon at a White House ceremony. Inducted into the
5:27
Speaker 3: Oklahoma Hall of Fame as the most outstanding AVIA tricks
5:32
Speaker 3: in the US, and goes on and on, and inducted
5:36
Speaker 3: into the there's like five more. Inducted into the National
5:40
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame in twenty twelve. And so Mary Haverstick
5:48
Speaker 3: the author, and by the way, Jerry Cobb died in
5:52
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, had had a lot of correspondence and meetings
5:59
Speaker 3: and and conversations with her. So now we get to
6:04
Speaker 3: June Cobb, who ironically was and is concerned a CIA
6:16
Speaker 3: asset and maybe more and also ironically from Oklahoma. She
6:22
Speaker 3: was born in nineteen twenty seven. She was an American
6:25
Speaker 3: informant for the CIA. Worked at Fidel Castro's headquarters in
6:29
Speaker 3: Havana as a translator and public relations worker in nineteen
6:36
Speaker 3: fifty nine nineteen sixty. After leaving Cuba, Cobb continued working
6:40
Speaker 3: for the CIA in Guatemala and Mexico. So we do
6:44
Speaker 3: have these kind of South American, you know, connections here
6:51
Speaker 3: between June and Jerry. She was the first CAA asset
6:54
Speaker 3: to lay an account of Lee Harvey Oswald, having attended
6:58
Speaker 3: a twist party in Mexico City weeks before the assassination
7:04
Speaker 3: of JFK. Now, I don't know what a twist party
7:09
Speaker 3: is in this exact form. I don't think it's like
7:16
Speaker 3: the twist board, but it could be.
7:19
Speaker 2: Well, it was a popular dance back in the fifties
7:23
Speaker 2: and sixties.
7:23
Speaker 1: You know, let's do the twist.
7:26
Speaker 2: So it's basically like a dance party, you know, where
7:29
Speaker 2: a bunch of white people and Mexicans would just they
7:32
Speaker 2: would do the twist, you know, where you twisted your
7:35
Speaker 2: h your abdomen, you know, and to move your hips
7:39
Speaker 2: a little bit.
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Speaker 1: Now, twist your body and a dancing motion.
7:43
Speaker 3: Can you see Lee Harvey Oswalt do it participating in
7:47
Speaker 3: the twist party?
7:48
Speaker 1: I can?
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Speaker 3: You can? I can I can't.
7:52
Speaker 1: I can see him moving and shaking.
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Speaker 3: Earlier in the fifties, June Cobb was involved with the
8:00
Speaker 3: production and trafficking of narcotics with her Colombian fight fiance
8:07
Speaker 3: and his twin brother, and later provided information to the
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Speaker 3: US Federal Bureau of Narcotics that led to arrests in
8:15
Speaker 3: Cuba and Colombia. She was fluent in Spanish, notably translating
8:21
Speaker 3: Castro's history will Absolve Me speech and former Guatemalan president
8:27
Speaker 3: Juan Jose ad Arevallo short story The Shark and the Sardines.
8:35
Speaker 3: She was also from Oklahoma, like I mentioned, I think
8:39
Speaker 3: I did, and after leaving the University of Oklahoma, she
8:45
Speaker 3: traveled to Mexico blah blah, blah blah blah. And again
8:50
Speaker 3: her resume is extensive, right, she's doing all these Latin
8:55
Speaker 3: American things for you know, over you know, twenty years.
9:06
Speaker 3: Let's see. She visited Havana, Cuba, in fifty nine and
9:13
Speaker 3: recounted meeting for del Castro's Minister of Health. So her
9:20
Speaker 3: CIA recruitment started in nineteen sixty, I believe, and made
9:30
Speaker 3: a verbal agreement to work for the CIA. Returned to
9:34
Speaker 3: Havana on June seventh, nineteen sixty, and was to be
9:39
Speaker 3: paid two hundred pesos per month expenses. She left Cuba
9:45
Speaker 3: in September sixty and September twelfth formalized her contract with
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Speaker 3: the CIA, which stipulated that she received two hundred each
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Speaker 3: month for a year long operation called jmar So Cobb
10:02
Speaker 3: was definitely a spook right she went Guatemala sixty one.
10:08
Speaker 3: She testified before the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security in
10:14
Speaker 3: March of nineteen sixty two. She was in Mexico City,
10:19
Speaker 3: Rob in June of nineteen sixty three as an informant
10:24
Speaker 3: for Western Hemisphere, reporting to none only then David ATTLEE Phillips.
10:33
Speaker 3: So she died in a senior center in twenty fifteen.
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Speaker 3: And the CIA's extensive file on Cobb is estimated to
10:49
Speaker 3: include over twenty five hundred pages. And her kryptonym was
10:56
Speaker 3: Li KOOKI like not Cookie, but see okay why one?
11:05
Speaker 3: And I found a couple of documents on her and
11:08
Speaker 3: it talks about summer for her operations. And you know,
11:12
Speaker 3: you guys could look that up if you'd like, Eli
11:14
Speaker 3: Cookie one. So it is June and Jerry Cobb, the
11:22
Speaker 3: same person, as the author surmises in the book. That's
11:31
Speaker 3: a big question here, Rob.
11:34
Speaker 2: It is a question, and I don't know that I'm
11:39
Speaker 2: wholly convinced that that is the case, at least from
11:43
Speaker 2: what I've not only read in this book, but in
11:51
Speaker 2: other things too. And again there's lots of i'll say,
12:00
Speaker 2: outlandish claims in this book. You know, I think both women,
12:05
Speaker 2: independently of each other, have fantastic stories, right, Yeah, they've
12:12
Speaker 2: got to. They both have amazing pedigrees, stories, they lived
12:17
Speaker 2: crazy lives, and but I think, like we talked about
12:24
Speaker 2: before the show, that it's a.
12:26
Speaker 1: Little bit of a reach, a reach too far.
12:30
Speaker 2: To try to intertwine the two as being interchangeable pieces
12:35
Speaker 2: and parts. You know, they each had a specific set
12:40
Speaker 2: of skills. You know, I don't know that Viola June
12:48
Speaker 2: Cobb was a pilot. I don't know that like Jerry
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Speaker 2: Cobb was a you know, a fantastic pilot and aviation
12:55
Speaker 2: and all that. And I don't know the Jerry Cobb
13:01
Speaker 2: would have had an enter to be some crazy undercover
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Speaker 2: spook for the CIA, considering what track she was on
13:09
Speaker 2: in her professional life. And you know, I don't know
13:14
Speaker 2: there's more to get into into the story, though, I
13:17
Speaker 2: didn't want to step on your.
13:19
Speaker 3: No, it's okay. You know, June Cobb was involved in
13:26
Speaker 3: some anti fair play for Cuba operations under Ray Rocca,
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Speaker 3: and I guess this was in Mexico City, I don't
13:37
Speaker 3: know exactly sure. And then we get to the whole
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Speaker 3: Redbird Airport allegation here where June and Jerry or slash
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Speaker 3: Jerry was supposed to fly oswalt out on the afternoon
14:02
Speaker 3: of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Now again, it's
14:09
Speaker 3: it's a lot, and I almost wonder if the the
14:15
Speaker 3: reaching to connect these two very impressive women to the
14:22
Speaker 3: Kennedy assassination was just made to sell books. Just frankly,
14:33
Speaker 3: it's it's weird. So I have one. Let me see
14:38
Speaker 3: three ninety two, three ninety three, and then we get
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Speaker 3: into the whole Bubushka lady claim.
14:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for those who want to know more about
14:46
Speaker 2: the whole Redbird Airport thing, I think we addressed it
14:48
Speaker 2: on a recent show that we did about Redbird Airport
14:51
Speaker 2: and the allegations surrounding it and.
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Speaker 1: Boiler Alert. We weren't convinced that June or Jerry Kyle
15:00
Speaker 1: was on.
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Speaker 2: The tarmac at Redburn Airport by the way, waiting to
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Speaker 2: get get away plane for an hour some randoms. But
15:11
Speaker 2: the story, there's more to this story, and you can
15:14
Speaker 2: go back and watch that episode.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, I am going to read now from
15:24
Speaker 3: the end of the Bubushka chapter because you know, Mary, only,
15:31
Speaker 3: like I said, only had contact with Jerry, not June
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Speaker 3: or you know, assuming they're different women. You know me
15:42
Speaker 3: better than anyone else ever, has the good and the bad.
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Speaker 3: Jerry once told me she was careful not to tell
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Speaker 3: me the bad directly. Instead, she left clues as a
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Speaker 3: master purveyor of information would avoiding responsibility for doing so.
16:00
Speaker 3: That is what spies do. Jerry's official story was that
16:04
Speaker 3: she was Jerry Cobb, the astronaut candidate. But she was
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Speaker 3: thrilled when I found June. And again kind of like
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Speaker 3: a little bit of hearsay here, like do we really know?
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Speaker 3: Jerry was thrilled From the moment Jerry told me about Redbird.
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Speaker 3: I suspected she had been Oswalt to get away pilot. Again,
16:30
Speaker 3: I suspected. Again we're speculating here. She could either prove
16:36
Speaker 3: it or disprove it. She did not disprove it, and
16:40
Speaker 3: she knew, and she knew I knew. Whenever I pushed
16:48
Speaker 3: too far, she defaulted to the company line, but part
16:52
Speaker 3: of her didn't want to. And our second Redbird confrontation
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Speaker 3: in Mexico, another look at what I asked Jerry and
17:02
Speaker 3: how she responded. Mary, So, what are you really going
17:06
Speaker 3: to tell me that you didn't go into Dale Plaza
17:09
Speaker 3: that day. Is that where you're really going to tell
17:12
Speaker 3: me after all this time, Yes, says Jerry, really, because
17:18
Speaker 3: that's very hard to believe. You had all these cameras
17:22
Speaker 3: with you in the plane and all those reporters and
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Speaker 3: you didn't go in Mm hmm, Mary, So you didn't
17:30
Speaker 3: pick up one of those movie cameras and you didn't
17:32
Speaker 3: go in there to Dealey to shoot the president. No, really,
17:39
Speaker 3: because you know I know you very well by now,
17:42
Speaker 3: Mary says, I mean, I've gotten to know you really
17:45
Speaker 3: well now, and that's what you want to tell me,
17:48
Speaker 3: that you didn't go into Dale Plaza in order to
17:51
Speaker 3: shoot the president with a movie camera. Well, if you
18:01
Speaker 3: know me really well, then you don't have to ask
18:03
Speaker 3: me that question. But I didn't have to ask. Jerry
18:07
Speaker 3: denied being June Cobb, and she denied going into Deally
18:11
Speaker 3: Plaza that day. Her first denial came minutes after she
18:14
Speaker 3: spelled out the parameters of a CIA secret agreement. Spies
18:20
Speaker 3: can tell you a whole lot of about their lives.
18:23
Speaker 3: They just can't tell you about what happened on operations.
18:28
Speaker 3: So as Mary suggesting that the bushkir Lady had a
18:35
Speaker 3: gun movie camera that shot JFK. Sounds like it.
18:43
Speaker 1: Well.
18:43
Speaker 2: Not only is she suggesting that, she also suggests that
18:51
Speaker 2: Jerry Cobb was QJ. Winn of the ZR rifle program
18:55
Speaker 2: overseen by William Harvey right, used for targeted killings and
19:03
Speaker 2: as the Babushka lady acting in that capacity.
19:08
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
19:09
Speaker 2: I mean that's like mister fantastic reach, you know, like
19:14
Speaker 2: the arms are growing, like go go, gadget arms.
19:17
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:18
Speaker 2: And again this this has been positive. I'm getting dB
19:23
Speaker 2: Cooper vibes. When when you sit here and and you
19:26
Speaker 2: talk about you know, when the when these when these
19:29
Speaker 2: guys get interviewed about possibly being dB Cooper and they
19:34
Speaker 2: you know, get the little sparkle in their eye and
19:35
Speaker 2: the the little twist of a grin at the end
19:39
Speaker 2: of their mouth and calmly denyed, No, I'm.
19:42
Speaker 1: Not dB Cooper. I would never do anything like that,
19:45
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, you know, it's just.
19:51
Speaker 2: Look, this case, the JFK conspiracy is full of people
19:58
Speaker 2: claiming to have done something they didn't do, claiming to
20:03
Speaker 2: have been somebody they were not, claiming to have been
20:06
Speaker 2: somewhere they weren't. And again, like if this was just
20:15
Speaker 2: a biography on Jerry Cobb. Great, but there's a whole
20:22
Speaker 2: lot of reaching going on in this, Joe, I mean
20:26
Speaker 2: a ton of speculations.
20:28
Speaker 3: Yes, as related to the Kennedy assassination, and it could
20:32
Speaker 3: have been on Jerry and June. And we know that,
20:37
Speaker 3: you know, CIA has known to intermingle certain identities. Were
20:43
Speaker 3: not disputing that whatsoever. It's just it seems like a
20:50
Speaker 3: lot of a reach for me as well. And that's
20:57
Speaker 3: what kind of concerns me.
20:59
Speaker 4: I don't know how much it muddies the waters. It's
21:02
Speaker 4: almost like a I don't want to compare it to
21:06
Speaker 4: a Harvey and Lee, but there are certain parallels.
21:10
Speaker 3: Right, They're both born, you know, within a few years
21:13
Speaker 3: of each other, they're both growing up in Oklahoma. They
21:16
Speaker 3: both led fascinating lives. But yeah, so with that, mister
21:27
Speaker 3: trip will be, I'm going to throw it back to
21:30
Speaker 3: you for your final ratings and thoughts.
21:34
Speaker 2: Well, just to counter what you just said about you know,
21:38
Speaker 2: them both being from Oklahoma and yeah, yeah four years apart. Okay,
21:43
Speaker 2: same last name, right, Okay, what do you do? Here's
21:48
Speaker 2: what I'll say about that. Oklahoma is a big as state,
21:50
Speaker 2: bro big and you know, families are big.
21:59
Speaker 1: They can be.
22:01
Speaker 2: Extended families, cousins, uncles, aunts.
22:07
Speaker 3: Especially in Oklahoma.
22:11
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of a lot of places where
22:14
Speaker 2: certain families have lived for a long time are going
22:17
Speaker 2: to have the same last name in common, and it
22:20
Speaker 2: just is what it is.
22:22
Speaker 1: And you might not even know him.
22:23
Speaker 2: You might see him in a family reunion, you know,
22:26
Speaker 2: once every twenty years or whatever, if you know. Maybe,
22:32
Speaker 2: but you know, she makes it sound like it's some
22:35
Speaker 2: astronomical coincidence, you know, like a million to one that
22:42
Speaker 2: both these women have the same last name and they
22:44
Speaker 2: were both born in Oklahoma. Well, to me, it makes
22:47
Speaker 2: more sense that they that they have the same last
22:50
Speaker 2: name and they were both born in Oklahoma, rather than
22:52
Speaker 2: one being born in Maine and the other one being
22:55
Speaker 2: born in Arizona. Because again, you're coming from somewhere where
23:04
Speaker 2: there's you know, if your family has lived one place
23:08
Speaker 2: for a long time and established roots, say in Oklahoma,
23:12
Speaker 2: you know, and again, these families grow, they intermingle, they
23:15
Speaker 2: have babies, they have cousins, they have uncles, and that
23:18
Speaker 2: same surname survives. Okay, it's not like these women were
23:24
Speaker 2: on the same career trajectories. Okay, you know one one
23:31
Speaker 2: was a pilot and trained to be an astronaut, and
23:34
Speaker 2: the other one decided to for whatever reason, uh you know,
23:42
Speaker 2: go into you know, espionage and use her skills in
23:48
Speaker 2: that manner. Right, And I don't know that either of
23:50
Speaker 2: these women were cold blooded killers. Right again, this is
23:54
Speaker 2: a giant reach any and all of the supposed evidence
24:01
Speaker 2: that's projected in this book. Like just to for instance,
24:05
Speaker 2: joe let me show you this. Okay, there's a picture
24:10
Speaker 2: in the appendix of this book, and it's called the
24:13
Speaker 2: clavical scar. Okay, yes, now you can see that's a
24:18
Speaker 2: pretty gruesome deal there right.
24:22
Speaker 3: As Joey's scars. I can concur Yes.
24:25
Speaker 2: It looks like a flesh eating bacteria or something, you
24:28
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's called leishman niasis, published in
24:35
Speaker 2: a doctor's article in nineteen fifty two.
24:38
Speaker 1: And again it's right under it.
24:40
Speaker 2: She says, if my suspicions are correct, right, suspicions right. So,
24:47
Speaker 2: of course, when she's interviewing Jerry Cobb, she takes a
24:51
Speaker 2: picture of Jerry Cobb's clavical right to see if she
24:55
Speaker 2: has a scar. Now, that flesh eating bacteria probably left it,
25:00
Speaker 2: giant nasty scar.
25:01
Speaker 1: Like on the left right, m h, and.
25:04
Speaker 2: This is there's a photo of Jerry Cobbs clavicle. I guess,
25:08
Speaker 2: I mean it could be your armpit for all I
25:10
Speaker 2: fucking know. Uh, I mean, it looks like a wrinkled
25:15
Speaker 2: ball bag or something. But you know, I don't know
25:18
Speaker 2: what this is supposed to.
25:19
Speaker 1: Prove, you know.
25:21
Speaker 2: And and her analysis of this is that the photo,
25:27
Speaker 2: this photo, the first one that I showed you, right, Yeah,
25:31
Speaker 2: as June cobbs head superimposed on Jerry Cobbs's body. Okay,
25:39
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding, She says, I believe these images exhibit
25:43
Speaker 2: signs of significant dark room alterations.
25:50
Speaker 3: Interesting.
25:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a lot of supposition in this book.
25:58
Speaker 3: Yes, a lot of speculation, but maybe an eel it
26:01
Speaker 3: healed by that time. Well, it looks like and look
26:06
Speaker 3: like a ball sack. I'm being facetious.
26:09
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can take, you know, a
26:13
Speaker 2: wound from fifty years prior and figure what the scar
26:18
Speaker 2: is going to look like, you know, on somebody.
26:21
Speaker 1: I don't know.
26:21
Speaker 2: There's also something about a left arm scar and I
26:26
Speaker 2: can't follow the pictures in the book. They're even less
26:30
Speaker 2: convincing than the clavigal Scar if you will.
26:33
Speaker 1: And one other thing I.
26:34
Speaker 2: Want to point out, Joe, is I also have another book.
26:40
Speaker 1: It's called A Secret Order Okay, by HP. Albarelli Jr.
26:45
Speaker 2: But it's any high strangeness and synchronicity in the jfk
26:50
Speaker 2: assassination all right.
26:54
Speaker 1: Now. In this book, he has an entire chapter.
27:01
Speaker 2: Dedicated to if I can get it on the goddamn screen, right,
27:04
Speaker 2: fem fatale Enigma, Viola June Cobb, Okay, And it tells
27:15
Speaker 2: pretty much her story. And what's interesting about this book
27:20
Speaker 2: and their relationship Okay, it's almost parallel to have her
27:26
Speaker 2: stick in.
27:27
Speaker 1: Jerry Cobb's relationship.
27:31
Speaker 2: They actually, I guess Albarelli actually met Viola June Cobb
27:36
Speaker 2: and had been friends with her, lived close to her
27:43
Speaker 2: for over twenty years, so much so that she was
27:48
Speaker 2: the godmother to his grandson.
27:52
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, Wow.
27:58
Speaker 2: Now they spent hours, hundreds of hours, according to Albarelli,
28:05
Speaker 2: talking and questioning her and her telling him stories of
28:10
Speaker 2: what she used to do, and this of course led
28:14
Speaker 2: into a very long lasting relationship friendship. Like I said,
28:17
Speaker 2: he named her the godmother of his grandson. And what's
28:26
Speaker 2: interesting is, of course you have June Cobb dying in
28:31
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Albarelli dying in twenty nineteen, and then this
28:35
Speaker 2: book coming out in twenty twenty three. In these hundreds
28:40
Speaker 2: of hours of interviews with Viola June Cobb, not one
28:43
Speaker 2: time did she ever mention Jerry Cobb or a possible
28:49
Speaker 2: double that she had. You would think that over the
28:52
Speaker 2: span of twenty years and hundreds of hours of interviews
28:55
Speaker 2: and her opening up about everything in her life, she
28:58
Speaker 2: would mention that, and she did not ever mentioned that. Okay,
29:08
Speaker 2: John Newman also interviewed Viola June Cobb extensively. Nothing about
29:14
Speaker 2: Jerry in there either.
29:21
Speaker 1: Let's see.
29:26
Speaker 2: So the one thing I can take away from this book, Joe,
29:31
Speaker 2: is that, like I said, it's a fantastic story about
29:35
Speaker 2: Jerry Cobb, and that's about it.
29:40
Speaker 1: To me.
29:41
Speaker 2: You know, I think Jerry Cobb led an interesting life.
29:44
Speaker 2: These two women could have been related, had the same
29:49
Speaker 2: surname in Oklahoma at some point, you know, and never
29:53
Speaker 2: knew each other existed, never even knew they were related.
29:57
Speaker 2: I mean, how many times did you go to high
29:59
Speaker 2: school you got a weird last name, but you don't
30:05
Speaker 2: you know, in high school there was a lot of
30:07
Speaker 2: people with the last name Clark, right, And I wasn't
30:11
Speaker 2: related to all of them, you know.
30:13
Speaker 1: I probably wasn't related to any of them, you know.
30:19
Speaker 1: And and I don't know. It's just.
30:23
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean much to me, right that these two
30:27
Speaker 2: have the same name. And then of course she ends
30:31
Speaker 2: the book with, you know, this speculation about I wonder
30:35
Speaker 2: why Lee Oswald named his daughter June. Must have been
30:40
Speaker 2: after Viola June Cobb, because he admired her so much.
30:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, give me a break.
30:49
Speaker 2: I think I said that phrase, give me a break
30:54
Speaker 2: a lot, you know, And a lot of people out
30:57
Speaker 2: in the community like this book because it something new.
31:01
Speaker 2: It involves a woman, which I think we need more
31:04
Speaker 2: of in this case. But unfortunately, in the nineteen fifties
31:10
Speaker 2: and the nineteen sixties, women were not put on a
31:15
Speaker 2: very trusted pedestal within the intelligence apparatus. They were often
31:21
Speaker 2: used as honey pots, listening devices, if you will, that
31:31
Speaker 2: kind of thing.
31:33
Speaker 3: And one was June born nineteen sixty in Russia. Right, Yeah,
31:46
Speaker 3: so I don't see how that could be.
31:50
Speaker 2: Again, it's a stretch, bro, It's a stretch.
31:54
Speaker 1: I think this entire book is a stretch, to be
31:56
Speaker 1: honest with you.
31:58
Speaker 2: So Big Bob is going to give a Woman I Know,
32:05
Speaker 2: which should have been titled a Woman I knew because
32:09
Speaker 2: she was dead when this book came out. We're talking
32:12
Speaker 2: past tense. But I'm going to give this book for
32:19
Speaker 2: what it is, and not what it could have been,
32:22
Speaker 2: but for what it is and what.
32:23
Speaker 1: It supposes.
32:26
Speaker 2: And the conclusions located within this book A three out
32:35
Speaker 2: of ten guns up one two, three.
32:45
Speaker 1: What say you, Joseph?
32:48
Speaker 3: I mean, I agree with a lot of the settlements
32:51
Speaker 3: you said. I do think it is a fascinating read.
32:56
Speaker 3: I don't think it's an easy read. Like the first
33:00
Speaker 3: time I had to push this booker for you back,
33:03
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm still trying to figure this shit out,
33:06
Speaker 3: you know, like I I'm just trying to figure it out,
33:10
Speaker 3: you know, like, what's the connection here? What's the connection there?
33:13
Speaker 2: Time you open up Harvey and Lee and you're like,
33:15
Speaker 2: oh shit, you know it's it's not an instant recognition
33:21
Speaker 2: of the of the pattern, right, So you almost need
33:24
Speaker 2: to have a notepad with you and kind of have
33:29
Speaker 2: a column And that says June, and a columnist says Jerry,
33:32
Speaker 2: And basically, you know, try to go back and forth
33:35
Speaker 2: and figure things out, you know, just like with Harvey
33:38
Speaker 2: and Lee.
33:39
Speaker 1: You're trying to read that and you're.
33:40
Speaker 2: Like, okay, what all right? They're saying, Okay, Lee lived here,
33:44
Speaker 2: here and here during these years. Supposedly Harvey lived here,
33:47
Speaker 2: here and here with this other marguerite during these years
33:50
Speaker 2: on this street, and this went to this school. And
33:52
Speaker 2: you know, it's confusing as hell. It is it is,
33:57
Speaker 2: and to try to attribute something to it that's just
34:04
Speaker 2: not there is. I think what happened in this book, see,
34:08
Speaker 2: I think the author came across a fantastic story from
34:12
Speaker 2: a fantastic woman and took the opportunity to turn it
34:17
Speaker 2: into a story and possibly new evidence in the Kennedy assassination.
34:23
Speaker 2: And I just think it fails.
34:24
Speaker 1: Short.
34:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I know Paul is
34:31
Speaker 3: going to kill us. But I do think it is
34:36
Speaker 3: a fascinating read. I do think both of these women
34:40
Speaker 3: led extraordinary lives. I do think the Kennedy assassination aspect
34:49
Speaker 3: of the book, in almost all instances, is a stretch.
34:55
Speaker 3: So I'm just going to give this a very middle
34:57
Speaker 3: of the road five up.
35:02
Speaker 2: Wait to sit on that fence, Joe, Yeah, on leg
35:06
Speaker 2: on each side, you know, with a fence post of
35:10
Speaker 2: your ass But.
35:11
Speaker 3: It is, it is interesting and like I learned a lot,
35:14
Speaker 3: you know, and you know about these women. But in
35:19
Speaker 3: terms of the JFK assassination aspects of it, I think
35:22
Speaker 3: it falls short. So yeah, five five is I feel
35:28
Speaker 3: like a fair score, do your little Larry David.
35:37
Speaker 2: You know, in spoiler alert, just because somebody worked for
35:41
Speaker 2: the CIA or was the CIA asset does not automatically
35:45
Speaker 2: qualify them to be involved in the Kennedy assassination. Okay,
35:50
Speaker 2: you know the CI was doing real foreign intelligence spy work,
35:54
Speaker 2: you know, as well as you know all the underhanded
35:57
Speaker 2: ship that they were supposedly doing as well. And that's,
36:00
Speaker 2: of course, if you believe in the CIA as primacy
36:03
Speaker 2: theory of the Kennedy assassination, right, unless you believe that
36:08
Speaker 2: somehow Jerry Cobb is acting rogue on her own to
36:12
Speaker 2: take out the president, then supposedly these orders came from
36:15
Speaker 2: on high, from you know, the upper exchelon in the CIA,
36:19
Speaker 2: And I just don't buy it, Joe, I just don't.
36:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you, man, I agree. So that's
36:29
Speaker 3: a book review is I think it's our second longest
36:32
Speaker 3: we said, we're going to keep it short, and as
36:36
Speaker 3: usual we yapped like six barbers.
36:39
Speaker 2: Well you read a lot, Yes, yes, again that's a
36:43
Speaker 2: woman I know by Mary Haverstick Haverstick.
36:52
Speaker 1: Have astick.
36:54
Speaker 2: And folks, if you enjoyed the book review, and by god,
37:00
Speaker 2: we will love our podcast. It's all about the Kennedy assassination,
37:05
Speaker 2: all about us shitting on aspects of the Kennedy assassinator. No,
37:09
Speaker 2: I'm joking, investigating aspects of the Kennedy assassination and seeing
37:15
Speaker 2: where the truth actually leads us when it comes to
37:21
Speaker 2: real documents, a real parsing of the evidence, a real,
37:28
Speaker 2: healthy interpretation of the available evidence, an objective take, yes.
37:37
Speaker 1: Yes, takes you know again.
37:39
Speaker 2: I opened up this book open minded, ready to give
37:42
Speaker 2: it a chance, and I was severely disappointed. It came
37:46
Speaker 2: highly recommended. In fact, one of my listeners bought this
37:50
Speaker 2: from me off Amazon that had to send to my
37:51
Speaker 2: house because they wanted me to read it. That was,
37:53
Speaker 2: you know, the greatest book ever written. Again, I think
37:56
Speaker 2: some of this stuff gets like I said, you know,
37:58
Speaker 2: something new new theory, you know, the theory of the moment,
38:02
Speaker 2: if you will, kind of thing, the new hot shit,
38:05
Speaker 2: you know, just has no staying power.
38:10
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't see.
38:11
Speaker 2: This bandied about like other than other things a lot,
38:17
Speaker 2: and that's that's something. So but anyway, that's it for us.
38:21
Speaker 2: We're gonna cut it out of here for now, and
38:23
Speaker 2: we'll see you over on the YouTube where we live
38:28
Speaker 2: stream our show every Friday night at seven pm Eastern
38:32
Speaker 2: for members seven pm Wednesday nights. If you are channel member,
38:36
Speaker 2: you can do so for as little as four ninety
38:38
Speaker 2: nine a month. If you would like to join us
38:41
Speaker 2: and support the show, we'd love to have you and
38:44
Speaker 2: we'll see you next time, folks.
38:48
Speaker 3: I guess that's tomorrow.
38:51
Speaker 1: Depending on when this comes out.
38:53
Speaker 3: Right today, And we got the NFL draft tonight, buddy,
38:59
Speaker 3: so I'm gonna be deep into that. Giants have two
39:04
Speaker 3: top ten picks, so.
39:07
Speaker 1: Let's get luck with that. Yeah, I know, crying into
39:10
Speaker 1: your hat a by ten o'clock. All right, it's it
39:12
Speaker 1: for us, folks. Peace