Latest / Pod Save America / 2020: Tim Ryan on the working class and yoga

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2020: Tim Ryan on the working class and yoga · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Podsafe America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We're coming to
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: you with yet another interview in our endless series of
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: interviews with Democratic presidential candidates. This time you'll hear a
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  Speaker 1: conversation I had with Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan and We
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: talked about health care, the economy, how Democrats can win
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the Midwest. We even talked about yoga, which is a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: passion of his, believe it or not. Here's the conversation.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Congressman Tim Ryan, welcome to Pod Save America.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's start by giving you an opportunity to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: introduce yourself to our listeners. What led you to a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: career in politics?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I played a lot of sports growing up and I
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: was a quarterback and kind of always in a leadership position.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I was in a fraternity. I was the president of
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: the fraternity. Looks familiar in this room. And so I
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: came from an area in Northeast Ohio where a lot
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: of my friends left. The economy wasn't doing well and
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: people were leaving. They'd go to school, go to college
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and leave. And I wanted to do something about it.
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  Speaker 2: So my career in politics really started about downtown redevelopment.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Like what are, what are the next generation? What's the
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: next generation of jobs that are going to become available?
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  Speaker 2: And I can go back to my first palm card
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  Speaker 2: I made and on it was renovate the Robbins theater.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And it was an old theater in the downtown and
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  Speaker 2: we just had no quality of life for young people.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: So it really started from how do we rebuild this community?
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  Speaker 1: And so you're running for president.
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  Speaker 2: That's a long way from the palm cards with the
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  Speaker 2: robin's skater on it.
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  Speaker 1: It always starts on a palm card somewhere. When you
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: got in this race, there were at least a dozen
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: other people already in the race. You had liberals, moderates,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: people from the coast, people from the Midwest, a number
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  Speaker 1: of your colleagues in the House of Representatives. What did
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  Speaker 1: you see in the field that you thought was lacking
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that you thought you were uniquely qualified to bring to
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: this race?
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  Speaker 2: I think two things. One, connect to voters we lost,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: you know, just from a sheer political standpoint. The country's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: really divided. I don't think most people like that. And
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I think I can really help pull the country back together.
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  Speaker 2: I know these voters, they voted for me. They voted,
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  Speaker 2: some of them voted for Donald Trump. We're in a
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: battleground state and all that. The second thing was, I
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  Speaker 2: really believe that I understand deeply because of where I
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: come from, the old economy, what's happened, You know, one
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  Speaker 2: of the biggest calls I get to my congressional office
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  Speaker 2: is around pensions, like just the insecurity that has come
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  Speaker 2: from really a 40-year collapse and a failure for us
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  Speaker 2: to really rebuild. I understand that. And through that experience,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I really studied and understand, I think, where we need
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: to go in the new economy. And, you know, around
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: electric vehicles, around AI, around additive manufacturing. I'll just give
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  Speaker 2: you one example. In the late 1970s, when Youngstown Sheet
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  Speaker 2: and Tube closed, my father-in-law actually worked there, the technology
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  Speaker 2: in the steel mills was pre-World War I. The steel
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  Speaker 2: industry basically put their head in the sand. They were afraid.
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  Speaker 2: They didn't want to change. They were still making some money.
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  Speaker 2: And then the bottom fell out. I think we're in
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  Speaker 2: a very similar position today. You know, you hear a
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  Speaker 2: lot of stories and read a lot of stories about
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  Speaker 2: artificial intelligence and job loss and the future of work
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  Speaker 2: and what's the economy going to look like. I think
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  Speaker 2: we've got to make a decision that we are going
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  Speaker 2: to embrace these technologies. We're going to grab them and
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  Speaker 2: we're going to try to dominate them. And we're going
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  Speaker 2: to infuse them into every industry we possibly can, ramp
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  Speaker 2: up productivity and cut the worker in on the deal.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the other alternative we already experienced and in
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  Speaker 2: places like Youngstown, we're still suffering the consequences from the
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  Speaker 2: fear that had everybody's head in the ground.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we have politicians, Democrats on Pod Save America
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: all the time, who are very good at diagnosing the
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  Speaker 1: challenges that communities like yours are facing, automation, globalization, et cetera.
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  Speaker 1: What we often struggle to get to elicit from Democrats
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  Speaker 1: is a big, bold answer to that challenge. What is
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  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan's big idea to to deal with these two
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  Speaker 1: forces of automation composition that are going nowhere. What's the
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  Speaker 1: thing we actually do that is very different than what
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  Speaker 1: we are doing now?
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  Speaker 2: We create a national industrial policy around dominating these industries,
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  Speaker 2: around dominating electric vehicles. There's one to two million today.
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  Speaker 2: There's going to be 30 million by 2030. We need
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  Speaker 2: to dominate that industry. And we need to have, I
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: have a bill that creates a chief manufacturing officer in
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  Speaker 2: the United States. to just drive this. The president should
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  Speaker 2: be driving it. This was, frustrates me a lot about
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  Speaker 2: the president. He came in, he campaigned and then he
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  Speaker 2: didn't do anything. Like he got these voters. He talked
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  Speaker 2: about steel mills and coal mines. He got these voters,
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  Speaker 2: some of them to vote for him, but he has
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  Speaker 2: no plan. And what I would do is sit down
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  Speaker 2: with the big three and the department of energy and
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  Speaker 2: the department of transportation and venture capital and say, how
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  Speaker 2: do we dominate electric vehicles. How do we dominate the batteries?
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  Speaker 2: How do we dominate the charging stations? How do we
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  Speaker 2: dominate solar? How do we dominate wind? How do we
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  Speaker 2: dominate AI? And put a plan together. I mean, this
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  Speaker 2: is what China does. It's a little bit easier there, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: because of their governmental structure. It's actually a lot easier.
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  Speaker 2: But we have got to solve this problem because right now,
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  Speaker 2: China dominates 40% of the electric vehicle market. They dominate
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  Speaker 2: 60% of the solar panel market. So I think an
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  Speaker 2: industrial policy is first and foremost on the agenda, because
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  Speaker 2: if we don't get the economic piece right, everything else
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  Speaker 2: is going to be harder to do.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of the things you're talking about here, whether
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  Speaker 1: it's electric cars, solar, wind, et cetera, is also part
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  Speaker 1: of climate policy in this country. How does your idea
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: here dovetail with the Green New Deal? Is that something
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  Speaker 1: you support or... Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I support a Green New Deal. I love
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  Speaker 2: the fact that we're all having this conversation. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: as a presidential candidate, I can't go into an interview
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  Speaker 2: where someone doesn't ask me about the Green New Deal.
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  Speaker 2: And I absolutely love it because it is such a
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  Speaker 2: pressing problem. I think we've got to make sure that
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  Speaker 2: we do it the right way. I talk about it
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  Speaker 2: like I just talked about, like we didn't even talk
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  Speaker 2: about the environment there, right? Industrial policy around what? Wind, solar,
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  Speaker 2: electric vehicles. I mean, that's how we, I think that's
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  Speaker 2: how we make this argument that this is a job
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  Speaker 2: creator for us. We should be leading with this is
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  Speaker 2: our opportunity through a Green New Deal to rebuild the
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  Speaker 2: middle class. That's how we get there with all of
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  Speaker 2: these new technologies.
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  Speaker 1: Do I take from that that for the voters in
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  Speaker 1: your district in Ohio, you believe that discussing this in
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  Speaker 1: a climate framework is a net political negative?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, a lot of people don't have the
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  Speaker 2: luxury of making it six steps down to, I'm really
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  Speaker 2: concerned about the environment. I mean, they get up and
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: they're worried about paying their bills. I mean, we just
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  Speaker 2: had another announcement. We lost a General Motors, last shift
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  Speaker 2: of a General Motors facility in my district that used
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  Speaker 2: to have 16,000 workers. And we just lost the last 1,700
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  Speaker 2: about a month ago. And just on Saturday, we had
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: a transportation company, Falcon Transport, lost 800 jobs. They got
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: an email at 8 o'clock on Saturday night saying, don't
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  Speaker 2: show up for work. Those people don't have the luxury
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  Speaker 2: of worrying about sea levels rising. I mean, I'm sorry
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  Speaker 2: to say it that way, but they don't. They have
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  Speaker 2: kids in school. They have a mortgage that now they
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  Speaker 2: lost their job. Their health care isn't as good as
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  Speaker 2: it should be. And, you know, shit's bad for them.
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  Speaker 2: It's real bad. And so if we come to them
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  Speaker 2: as a party and we don't first and foremost acknowledge
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  Speaker 2: this struggle that they are facing today, like how am
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  Speaker 2: I going to pay my mortgage next month? I mean,
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  Speaker 2: May's coming up, right? So how are we going to
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  Speaker 2: pay it? I mean, that's what they're asking themselves. That's scary.
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  Speaker 2: And if we don't meet them where they are on
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  Speaker 2: that issue and have a plan for how we're going
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  Speaker 2: to get out of this mess, then they're not going
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  Speaker 2: to vote for us.
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  Speaker 1: As you know, Ohio is a state that Barack Obama
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  Speaker 1: won twice. Yeah. Close, but pretty decisive victories.
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  Speaker 2: The good old days.
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  Speaker 1: The good old days, yes. Your district is one that
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  Speaker 1: Democrats have mostly won, but I think Trump won it
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  Speaker 1: this time.
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  Speaker 2: Hillary won it with 51.
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  Speaker 1: So closer than it's been, right?
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  Speaker 2: The President of Obama won it with 62 or 63.
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  Speaker 1: So a huge, huge change there. What has changed, you know,
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  Speaker 1: as we look at what's happened in Ohio since 2012-
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  Speaker 1: What has led to that change? Is it a change
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  Speaker 1: in Ohio or is it a change in the Democratic Party?
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  Speaker 2: A little bit of both. I think we got off
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  Speaker 2: of the economic message that just went at people like,
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  Speaker 2: we're the party to help you with the problems that
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  Speaker 2: I just discussed. We're the ones who are going to
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  Speaker 2: help you with healthcare. We're the ones who are going
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  Speaker 2: to help you with your job, wages. And President Trump
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  Speaker 2: is very skillful. I mean, he came into the Mahoning Valley,
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  Speaker 2: which is the area I represent in Northeast Ohio, and
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  Speaker 2: he said, Bill Clinton passed NAFTA. Now, Most of the
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  Speaker 2: job loss today is from automation. But the people who
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  Speaker 2: lost their jobs in my area over the years, they
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  Speaker 2: literally moved like factories over the border in Mexico and
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  Speaker 2: started shipping the product back. My cousin Donnie had his
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  Speaker 2: last act at Delphi, which was a supplier for General Motors,
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  Speaker 2: was to unbolt the machine from the factory floor, put
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  Speaker 2: it in a box. and ship it to China. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: workers would leave Warren, Ohio, go to Mexico, train workers
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  Speaker 2: and come back. So when Trump came in and said
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  Speaker 2: NAFTA and her husband passed it, that was a very
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  Speaker 2: effective line. But the trade thing speaks to the inequality.
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  Speaker 2: It speaks to wage stagnation. It trade is now, unfortunately
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  Speaker 2: in the country, that's what people hear. And Trump came
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  Speaker 2: in and stole that message from Democrats and was very effective.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we think in the constant conversations we've all
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: had about what happened in 2016, how do we make
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: sure it doesn't happen again? There is this sort of
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: internal debate or tension around whether it is a message
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: problem or a policy problem on Democrats' behalf. Because Hillary
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Clinton's policy, economic policies, were no different and even some
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: cases more populous than some of Barack Obama's in 2012.
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  Speaker 1: Yet is like what where do you is the Democratic
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Party having trouble explaining the policies it has or does
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: it need new policies to win back constituents like yours?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's both. You know, I really do. I
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: think it's both. I think people don't trust either party,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: at least like middle of the road people or moderate Democrats.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe it is an independent voters. And they didn't trust
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Democrats and they didn't trust Republicans. And they saw Trump
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  Speaker 2: as an independent. He was using the Republican Party, but
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: he was an independent. And he was talking about raising
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: taxes on rich people and expanding Medicare. And, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: he was going to do every he had a populist agenda.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think people after years and years and
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: years of frustration and stagnation, they gave him a shot
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  Speaker 2: because they saw him as an independent. He was rich
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  Speaker 2: and he had a plane. So, I mean, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: maybe he can help us get rich, you know, or
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: at least get out of this mess that we're in.
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  Speaker 2: And so they gave him a chance. But I think
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  Speaker 2: this election is going to be about ideas. I just
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  Speaker 2: I think people are rightfully cynical, rightfully just confused about
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: really what's going on. You know, he stole those voters.
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  Speaker 2: So that's why I'm trying to talk in very specific terms.
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  Speaker 2: I think electric vehicles is a really specific way to go.
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  Speaker 2: And you show people how it's growing. It relates to
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  Speaker 2: American manufacturing. It's a new industry. I don't, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I used to say this back in my district, like
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to get my community chasing the last
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: best thing. And that's basically what Trump did. Like I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: used to campaign on telling people like when I was
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: 29 years old, like, look, the steel mills aren't coming back.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And if they do, they're not going to have 20,000
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: people in them. So we've got to shift our mindset
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to get in front of the next wave that's coming.
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  Speaker 2: And so now I'm basically applying that approach to national
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: effort here and you look at additive manufacturing growing you
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: know 3d printing in fact we landed the first center
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: that president obama put together a manufacturing innovation center around
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: around additive is in downtown youngstown three to five million
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: jobs are going to be grown in additive manufacturing in
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  Speaker 2: the next 10 years solar and wind growing at 25
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  Speaker 2: to 30 percent a year electric vehicles we're going to
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  Speaker 2: make 30 million so how do we position not just
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  Speaker 2: youngstown or akron in my district but how do we
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: position the united states of america to dominate these industries,
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  Speaker 2: and then have incentives in the tax code and policies
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: in the government to steer that growth into communities of color,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: communities that have been left behind, and old coal, old steel,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: old auto, old rubber, Gary, Indiana. I mean, you look
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: at some of these towns, they've been wiped out. That's
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: ridiculous in the United States of America today. And when
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you look at the fact that 80% of venture capital
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: goes to three states, California, New York, and Massachusetts, 9%
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: less go to women and less than 2% go to
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: people of color. So our policies need to change so
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: we can start drive, like dominate these industries, ramp up productivity,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: ramp up growth, and then steer through an industrial policy,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: the growth to these communities that did a hell of
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: a lot for America for a long time. When we
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: were sending money out West to do the central Arizona
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: project and get water into the desert and grow out
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the West, That money was coming from the Akron rubber industry.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: That was coming from the Youngstown steel industry, the Western
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: PA coal industry. And so how do we have policies
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that steer that growth back to some of those communities?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: How would you incentivize that? There are reasons that the
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: venture capital funding is in these three places, right? And
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: so there needs to be something to encourage them to
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: do that. So I guess the two questions would be,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: how do you incentivize the movement of investment out of...
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you know, the coastal states into places like Youngstown. And
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: as you'd like this, this is all, it's industrial policy,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: but also, you know, what you're hitting at is a
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: massive investment, right? Spending of money. If you thought about
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: how much it would cost to achieve this and how
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you'd pay for it or would you pay for it?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, at some point
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: you have to pay for it. I think you do
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: it through the tax code. I think you have Ray
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Dalio is writing about this double bottom line and triple
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: bottom line where it's not just about your profit, but
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: it's also about some social good. So it shifts the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: tax code and incentives through corporate tax and other tax
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: incentives on how to not just be about shareholders with
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: your company, but be about stakeholders, which is also the communities.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: It also means the workers. And how do you incentivize that?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: The opportunity zones, which are a component of the tax bill,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: probably the only really positive component of the tax bill,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: in which you create neighborhoods. Governors have done tracks in
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: certain cities about investments. And then there's an opportunity fund
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: where people can put private investment capital gains into a
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: fund that can be used in these opportunity zones. So
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you're actually trying to get some wealth out of the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: hands of the concentrated wealth in the 1% or 10%.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: get it into these funds that can then reinvest in
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: these communities. But we also need a massive urban Marshall plan.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Like we have to clean these communities up. They have
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of dilapidated homes in Youngstown. I know
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: we have three or 4,000 in Gary, Indiana. They have 6,000.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Like those got to come down. We've got to have
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a huge, uh, making sure we get a high speed
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: internet into these communities. We've got to renovate the downtowns.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: We've so that you create a sense of place. You
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: need riverwalks. You need amphitheaters. You need a big, bold
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: vision for how we're going to redo our communities so
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: that young people can come back to those communities. So
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: as these tech companies, maybe they do start in Silicon Valley,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: but we did a thing, and I think we need
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to institutionalize this in the Department
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: of Commerce. Ro Khanna and I took a busload of
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: venture capitalists, about 13 of them, and our first trip
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: we called the Comeback Cities Tour. And we put them
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: on a bus, and Bloomberg helped us, We did Youngstown, Akron, Detroit, Flint,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: and South Bend. We went over to see Mayor Pete.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: This was, well, a couple of years ago. We have
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: innovation happening in these towns. We have entrepreneurship. We just
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: don't have venture capital. We don't have the money that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: can help ramp this up. And so having a Department
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: of Commerce that's incentivizing and helping, you're trying to knit
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the country back together. And what was really interesting about
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: it is that the venture capitalists were fascinated with what
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: people were thinking about and what problems we were thinking
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: about in Youngstown as opposed to Mountain View. It was
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: a total different mindset. And so they saw it as
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: an opportunity. Wait a minute, I can be the first
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: one into the Midwest and someone was doing an RV rental,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: like an RV timeshare, right? No one in Mountain View
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: riding around in an RV. But someone said, I want
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to talk to you after. You know, I love when
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: that's like Shark Tank, you know, it's like, oh, we're talking,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: you know, it was like that. And we did that
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: and we went down South and we did that in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: South Carolina and Georgia and North Carolina. We're doing another one.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: We're going to Pittsburgh and Columbus and Youngstown. But those
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: are the kind of innovative ideas we need. So you
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: set the table in these communities with the investment, you
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: incentivize through the tax code. And then, you know, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: don't have all the answers. I'm going to sit down
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: with a bunch of smart people and say, how do
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: we do this? I'm the president. I'm going to drive
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: this freaking thing. I'm going to drive it. I am
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: going to walk into the Oval Office every morning and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: think about the people in Youngstown, Ohio, and how do
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: we make it better for them and the communities like them?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So give me the venture capital community. Give me, you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and I think they'll show up to the meeting. And
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: let's put a plan together on how we resuscitate these communities.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's sort of a couple different ways of looking
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: at this, right? They're like a traditional... sort of post-Clinton
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: democratic policy idea is we're going to use the tax
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: code to incentivize behavior, right? And that's something that President
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Obama tried to do a lot. And it often has
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: mixed results, right? You either get unintended consequences or people
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: don't actually do it or businesses will find ways to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: both take advantage of the tax code and still do
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: what they were going to do anyway. Another option is
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: simply straight New Deal-style tax federal investment. Is that something
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you would consider too? It could be your Midwestern Marshall Plan,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: if you will, or something like a large public works
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: program or something else to put money in the pockets of,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: not put it directly in people's pockets, but to have
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a surge in quality, well-paying jobs with livable wages in
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the Midwest.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes. But I think you got to do both.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't, I don't think we have the
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: luxury today of doing one or the other. We literally
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: need to rebuild because of years of not doing it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: So we've got, you know, you look at combined sewer and,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and like these towns, they have an EPA mandate for
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a billion dollars. Like where are they going to get
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a billion dollars? And then if they raise rates on
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: their local community users, they're going to drive everybody out
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: of the city. So we have got to go in
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: as the federal level and I think rebuild these communities,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: clean them up. As I said, Riverwalk Amphitheater, broadband. So
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: then you put every town, small, mid-sized town on the
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: menu for growth. And so that's the public side. And
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: what we have today, it's like it's either all government
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: or free market, right? Cut taxes and trickle down or
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a centralized government thing. The reality of it is you
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: need public-private partnerships. You need the opportunity zones. You need
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: the tax code. But they're not going to invest in
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: areas that don't have like the clean pipes to clean
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the water or parks or river walks and cool places
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and cleaning up these rivers. So it's got to be both.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: It just has to be.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: If you talk about the challenge of economic insecurity for
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: American families in Ohio and across the country, where does
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: healthcare fit into that conversation? And how do you think
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: about the next step post-Affordable Care Act?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I think we have to change the entire conversation around healthcare.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, you know, I've been on the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Medicare for All bill since 2007. I tell the new
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: people in Congress I was on it before it was cool. Okay. So, like,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I think having an access to some public option, which
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: we tried to do, and just we could not get
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: it through the Senate, is essential. We've got to have it.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: It's good for entrepreneurship. It's good for innovation. It's a
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: social justice issue. It's It's for the working class. We've
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: got to do that. We're having the wrong conversation, though,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: because when you look at the money we're spending on
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: health care today, we spend two and a half times
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: as much as every other industrialized country on health care
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and we get the worst results. Now, that's stupid. I mean, anyway,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: no easy way to say that. And when you look
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: at the fact that 75 percent of health care costs
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: today come from chronic diseases that are largely preventable, OK,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: 75 percent of our health care costs come from chronic
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: diseases that are largely preventable, which means we need to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: have a national conversation, not around health care necessarily, because
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: we have to take care of the pharmaceutical industries and
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: all that. I think we're all in agreement on that,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: especially in the Democratic primary. We need to have a
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: national conversation around health and we need to have a
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: national conversation around food and agriculture and the rates of
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: diabetes today. We have almost half the country, almost half
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the adults in America in America have either diabetes or prediabetes.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And type 2 diabetes is actually reversible. And there's companies
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: now that are actually paying their, John Hancock, for example,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: they're running this vitality program where they actually give their
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: clients 50 bucks to buy healthy food. And because we're
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: seeing results of if you just change your diet, you
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: will reverse your diabetes. And a diabetic costs the healthcare
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: system 2.3 times as much as a non-diabetic. So what
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: do we, this is 75% of our costs. We've got
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: to talk about health and we've got to talk about
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: what we're feeding our kids in our schools. And we
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: can't be pumping them up with additive sugar and highly
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: processed food. They're also in the Medicaid program, right? So
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: we're paying for them to have food at school. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I went to a school a few months back. It
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: had chocolate milk, and Rice Krispie treat for breakfast. Now,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I'm from outside of Youngstown. I'm not a prude, right?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I drink Miller Lite and watch the Cleveland Browns, and
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I eat chicken wings. But all I'm saying is, like
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: 80% of the time, we've got to be doing it right,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: and we certainly shouldn't be pumping our kids full of
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: additive sugar. It was like 80 grams of sugar. It's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: maybe 60 or 80 grams.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: But a lot.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of sugar for this little precious little kid.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: This is our kid. It's not somebody else's kid. It's
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: our kid. This is our kid in this school, and
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: we're doing this to them. We're diminishing their cognitive ability.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: We're setting them on a trajectory to get diabetes, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: then we're paying for that too, and then we're going
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: to pay for their health care when they're on the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Medicaid program because a lot of these schools and many
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: of these kids are on the Medicaid program. Then we're
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: going to pay in the health care system. You wonder
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: why the American taxpayer is like, I don't trust any
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: of you people. These systems are all broken. And until
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: you fix them, I don't want to pay any more
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: in taxes because they're all broke. And so that's the
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: conversation we need to have around healthcare because that's where
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the money is.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Is the challenge in healthcare, though, ultimately that it's a
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: for-profit industry in this country, that everyone's trying to make
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: money on it?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. And the system set up is a disease
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: care system. It's a sick care system. It's not a
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: preventative care system. So part of what we have to
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: do really is, is reverse the incentives today. You know,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the incentives now are if you get sick, you get
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: taken care of and you get the doctor will get
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: paid and the hospital get paid and the health insurance
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: companies will get paid and everybody gets paid. How do
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: we reverse this idea to incentivize doctors to keep us healthy?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: How do we incentivize patients? Like I was telling you
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: about this vitality program, right? You start giving patients refunds
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and rebates for doing things right. you start giving doctors
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: refunds and rebates for helping people get healthy, you're going
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: to begin to shift that system. And that's the transformational
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: piece of healthcare reform that has to happen or this
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: whole thing is not going to work. I don't care
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: if it's single payer, public option, individual care, be for service,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: out of pocket, however you want to say it, it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: not going to work. Literally in 15 years, the average
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: American is going to be paying more for healthcare or
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: as much in healthcare as they are for their own salary.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: 15 years.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You brought up food policy. I know this is a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: passion of yours. When I worked in the White House, Mrs.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Obama was leading on this. And we got a lot
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: of blowback from Republicans and even some Democrats about efforts
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to get kids eating healthier in school, calorie counts on menus,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: sodium advisories from the FDA. A lot of that comes
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: from legislators and people in the Midwest. How do you
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sell healthy eating to your constituents?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Well, we literally stand on Michelle Obama's shoulders. I mean,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: she took the hit. you know, early on. And she
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: was right. And I think the science and the evidence
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: is bearing it out that she was way ahead of
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: her time. And I was there in Congress watching all
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: this go down. And things have changed. I mean, the
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: science is in. Industry is changing. People are investing into
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: healthier foods. They're investing into shifting the market. You notice
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: now when you go into a grocery store, you see
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: a lot more organics. That's one example. So I think
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: things really are shifting. The other tragedy that's happening now
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: is what's happening in rural America. I mean, farmers haven't
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: made a profit in five years. And so I think
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: we need to go there. We need to have, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I will, and we're going to have an aggressive campaign
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: in rural America and say, look, this hasn't worked out
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: for you. Both the old system around food, the way
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the president handles the tariffs and everything else, These guys
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: are hurting. One of the highest suicide rates in the
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: country is the American farmer. I mean that is– that
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: says it all. And so I want to invite the
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: farmers in to be a part of the solution and
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: how do we make sure they can transition out of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: the old industrial farming, row crops, growing stuff that never
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: really ends up as food. You don't really eat it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Like 99 percent of corn you don't eat. It goes
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: to feed. It goes to high fructose corn syrup. Same
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: with soy. It goes in the soy oil, corn oil,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: wheat oil, and the products that we eat that are
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: highly processed that are making us sick. Let's invite the
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: farmers in and tell them, you're going to make more
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: money under me than you are under President Trump. We're
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: going to help break the monopoly that exists now in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: rural America. So by inviting them in, teachers are talking
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: about this. I think the American public now knows more
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: than ever before. and I'm at the Milken Institute here
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: in LA, there are big time donors, philanthropists, Milken himself, others,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: CEO of Whole Foods. They know this is where it's going.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Even someone from Cargill was testifying, not testifying, Congress speak, right?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: She was on a panel and she was saying, um,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: that even their company is really starting to move because
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: they're seeing the market begin to move. And that's significant.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And this is an issue for me, and it's an
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: issue for a lot of people. So, I mean, I'm
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: inviting people into this conversation. Tim Ryan from America.com. If
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: you're interested, if you think that this is like the
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: way we need to go, because we need that outside
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: push that I don't think Mrs. Obama had. But if
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: you look out, you go on websites, you go on Twitter,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: there is a significant amount of people that are really
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: energized around the food issue. And they sit out politics
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: because they think we're so stupid because they're like, you
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: guys are talking about health care and health care costs.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: No one's talking about food. And I'm giving them an
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: opportunity to do that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to trade policy for a second.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Because obviously, as you pointed out, an issue that Trump
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: was able to weaponize to win elections, talking about NAFTA.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: What is a thoughtful, progressive trade policy that Democrats should
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: be running on?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I believe... having voted against almost every trade agreement that
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: has been out there, I believe that it is important
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: now for us to figure out a trade policy where
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: we can actually start integrating our economies, especially with the
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: countries in Asia, because China is on the move. They
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: are aggressive. They are building islands in the South China Sea.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: They are signing long-term raw material contracts in Africa. They
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: have a base in Djibouti now. They're building another one.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: They have this Belt Road Initiative. I would encourage all
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: of your listeners to go out and really look at
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: what China is doing. I saw a map the other day.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: It had a rail line from northeast China to Rotterdam.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: They're going after it. Oil and gas, the ports in
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: these countries are And so we have got to have
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a trade regime where we are really figuring out how
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: we integrate with Vietnam, with deeper with Japan, because Japan
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: is kind of flirting with China now a little bit.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And some of these other Pacific Rim countries, we have
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: to figure out how we at the same time protect
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: the American worker. And I think that if you do
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: this at the same time, the electric vehicle, all the
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: other stuff we talked about, if we don't have the
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: American workers family, gaining in wage, gaining in economic security,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: we're never going to pass any trade agreement for anything.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: And so that's got to be the focus. But we
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: do have to combat China with some of our economic policies.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: And that's a reality we have to face.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: When you talk about a trade regime that takes on China,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: marshalling other Asian countries like Vietnam, that sounds to me
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: a lot like the Trans-Pacific Partnership that President Obama was
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: putting together. Are you saying that a President Tim Ryan
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: would try to build on that to get us back involved?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: What is different from what President Tim Ryan would do
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: than President Barack Obama was doing?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we need to make sure that the
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: labor protections are there. We're going through this now with
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the revamp of NAFTA. It's like, well, we've got some
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: labor protections that are in there, but there's no enforcement provisions.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: And so President Tim Ryan from Youngstown, Ohio, seeing the
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, epicenter of deindustrialization is going to make sure
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: that our workers are taken care of. I want to
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: make sure that the environment is taken care of, that
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: we have balanced policies on those. We're not going to
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: solve the climate change issue by ourselves. So we need
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: to make sure we have partners and really set the
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: standards there. The reality is, though, if we don't do
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: something like China is like these countries are starting to
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: move towards China economically. That's a very, very dangerous proposition.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: So this is going to take a lot of work.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's going to take a lot of us
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: to get together and sit down, really, how do we
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: figure this thing out? And if we don't, China is
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: going to continue to be on the move. So we've
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: got to get it right. But if it's not right
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: for the American worker, then it's not going to work
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: for us anyway.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: The other debate that is happening in Washington is about
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the Mueller report. Um, do you believe that.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It reminded me of law school. It was brutal.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of a snappy narrative. The,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: do you believe that Donald Trump has committed impeachable offenses?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I think he obstructed justice. Yeah, I do. I think
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: on multiple occasions, I mean, the most clear was when
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: the legal counsel said, whatever you do, Mr. President, uh,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: don't talk to Jeff Sessions. And the phrase was obstruction. Like,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: we're worried about obstruction. That was the word they used.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: And two days later, he's at Mar-a-Lago like, hey, come
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: on over here. I want to talk to you. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: it's clear.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: How do you think your House Democratic majority should proceed now?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I think we're doing it the right way. I think
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of confidence in Jerry Nadler. I've
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: known him my entire career. I have confidence in Leader Pelosi,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Speaker Pelosi. I think we are going down the right track.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: We have these hearings to the extent we can have
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Mueller testify, people from the administration testify. It's got to
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: be live and the American people need to see what's
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: going on. That's critically important because all of these other
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: testimonies didn't happen behind the scenes. And so nobody really
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: kind of knows what's going on. And again, you're trying
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to talk to the person in Youngstown, Ohio, who just
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: lost their job or is dealing with taking their kids
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: to school. And, you know, it's like back and forth
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: between divorced parents. I mean, the stuff that people go through,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: they're not really paying attention. So having a real thoughtful
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: approach of how we get this information out to the
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: American people, I think is critically important. And then let's
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: see where it goes. And if we got to go
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: down that road, then we have to. But again, we
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: know the Senate's not going to take it up. Like
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: there's no way Mitch McConnell's going to like take up,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: you know, or pass anyway, convict him And, you know,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're already struggling with the subpoenas. I mean,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I think there's an emerging constitutional crisis happening here.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Do you think there is value, whether historically or morally
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: or constitutionally, in if Trump committed impeachable offenses, having the
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: House impeach him, even if we know that he's not
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: going to be removed in the Senate? Is that important
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to send a message that conduct like this will not
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: be allowed to pass? Or is it a potentially a
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: waste of time and resources to do that if you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: know what the end result is going to be.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I go back and forth, to be
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: quite honest with you. We do too. It's a constant
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: topic on the podcast. Yeah. I mean, it's hard because
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: impeachment is a political decision. I mean, that's why it's
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: in Congress. So it's political. So weighing the political context
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: for our party and the election is important. And to
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: see Trump running around in six months saying the Senate
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: said I'm exonerated and then wasting six months not talking
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: about what have you done about General Motors in Northeast Ohio?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: What have you done about electric vehicles? What have you
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: done about lifting people up in this economy? Because he's
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: running around talking about how great the economy is. We
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: need to be talking about how great it is not
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: for so many people. And that would really derail any
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: message of like, he's not, he didn't deliver for you,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: which is what I'm saying. Like he did not, he
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: made these promises. I heard him. He was in Ohio
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: and he told people not to sell their house. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: that was just months ago. And we're losing jobs left
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: and right now. And we will get completely off of
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: that message. And then that worker in Youngstown at Falcon
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Transport is going to say, These guys aren't talking about me.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: It's all this politics and everything else. So I go
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: back and forth. But at this point, I'm leaning like,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: let's let Chairman Nadler do his thing.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: When we think about pulling together a coalition that can
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: get us to 270, we have to do two things, right?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: This is just the pure math of living in an
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: electoral college system is we have to win back those voters,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the people who voted for you and voted for Trump
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: in 16, people who voted for Barack Obama and voted
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: for Trump. But we also have to engage the more
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: than 4 million Obama voters who didn't turn out. How
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: do you think about the balance between exciting progressive Democrats
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: that get involved in the process and winning over so-called
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: moderates in states like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Big aspirational vision for the country, you know, dominating these industries,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: setting the country right, reforming education, focusing on getting healthy.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and vibrant in the country. Like, let's go. We are
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: in a competition with China right now that no one
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: in America is really talking about. It's a centerpiece of
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: what I talk about, but we're not having this conversation.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, this is the dominating politic happening today,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: is our relationship with and our competition with China.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Even, you know, like that all makes sense. Like, in
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: a vacuum of this is the things that are going
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to come out of my mouth as a candidate to voters.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: But that's not how elections work, as you know. And
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: so if you are our Democratic nominee, you're saying, we're
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: going to talk about the economy, we're going to talk
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: about the economy. And Trump is out there. He's probably
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: got a nickname for you. And he's screaming about immigration,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: countries being invaded by MS-13. What is your theory for
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: engaging with Trump to make sure your message does not
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: get lost?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a united country versus a divided country.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: And I think emotionally right now, the entire country is
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: completely frustrated with how divided we are. And they know
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: that the president intentionally tries to divide us. That's his
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: goal with everything he does. And it can be, you know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: LeBron James and Maxine Waters or John McCain and, you know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Barbara Bush or It's immigration, divide, divide, divide, divide. It
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: has caused so much anxiety in our country. And I
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: want to know what the national stress level is right now.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I was in Iowa and some gentleman in the back
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: of the room said, I have PTS, post-Trump syndrome. He said,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: we're exhausted out here. They are exhausted with the divisions.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And what I'm going to present is like, look, yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: you're right. You know what? We can have a 10
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: point plan on this and a 10 point plan on that.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: If we're not united with a leader who actually wants
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: to respect everyone, wants to bring everybody together, has won
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Trump voters and watched them go to Trump, And I've
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: been watching the gridlock my, almost my entire career going back.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I got in right after the Iraq war. I've seen
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: this going on and I'm tired of it. And so
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: my pledge is we're going to come together as a country.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: We're going to take the temperature down. We're going to
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: respect each other. We're going to care about each other.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean we're always going to agree and we're going
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: to have fights. And I'm Irish. I say like the
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: old Irish saying, is this a private fight or can
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: anyone get into it? Like, I'm down with it. I'm
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: down with the political brass knuckles. Fine. But we've got
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: to come together.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The challenge of unity is it's a two-way street. Barack
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Obama ran around the country in 2008 with a very
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: unifying message. He won a massive victory by modern standards,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: 53% of the vote, also picking up states that Democrats
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: have not won since in a century. And And before
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: he's even sworn in, John Boehner says he's not going
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to work with him on saving the economy. And Mitch
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: McConnell says his top priority is defeating Barack Obama. How
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: can you as president succeed where President Obama failed in
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: uniting the country? Because Trump may be gone. He may
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: be back at Mar-a-Lago. He might be in prison. Who knows?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: But Mitch McConnell's very likely to still be there. And
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: all the forces that created Trump are still there. So
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: how do you bridge that gap where others haven't been
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: able to?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's important during the campaign to actually have
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: key proposals that I'm talking about and real action items
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about around electric vehicles, around food is
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: medicine and getting healthy and changing the incentives, around social
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: and emotional learning in the schools and seeing all the
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: benefits of how that works, of increased test scores and
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: all of this stuff by actually taking care of the
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: trauma that our kids experience. are experiencing every day, when
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: we talk in specifics, those issues are crossing party lines.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Like if you look at talking about health, that's not
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: a political, that's not like, what side are you on?
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Like we're going to get healthy as a country and
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: we're going to incentivize doctors and patients to get rebates
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: and refunds for getting healthy. Is that Democrat or Republican?
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, nobody knows. Sounds smart to me. Same with
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: social and emotional learning. It's backed with like by the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Brookings Institution. It's backed by the American Enterprise Institute. It
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: has bipartisan support. You talk about helping vets. We're doing
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: a lot around, you know, trying to heal vets through
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: alternative treatments like yoga and meditation and acupuncture. There's Democrats
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and Republicans. I mean, one of my best vet supporters
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: is a Republican. So by campaigning on these specific issues
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: around the economy, is an electric vehicle, is that Democrat
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: or Republican? You know, I mean, we're losing auto jobs now.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: This is the next generation coming. So point is, talk
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: about specifics. I think it's going to be a lot
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: like 92 in the sense that, you know, like Carville
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: used to say, you got to explain it to them,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: you know, like explain to people what your specific plan is.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: And then when you get elected, it is a mandate
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: of sorts. And then, you know, you may have some advantage,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: not that you're going to pass the whole agenda, but
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: you're going to have the support of the American people.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: This is obviously a very crowded field with, you know,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, 20 people running now, everyone from vice
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: president to a mayor to members of Congress. And let's
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: say folks are listening to this and they're very interested
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in what you're saying. They like your proposals. They like
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: your message. And then they discover that up until a
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: few years ago, a Democratic candidate for president was someone
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: who defined themselves as pro-life and was a member of
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the NRA.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Why should that not give progressive Democratic voters pause about
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan?
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I think progressives are open-minded. They make decisions based on
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: evidence and experience. And my experience, you know, I came
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: into Congress as a Catholic school kid from Northeast Ohio.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: My position on abortion, you know, was something I quite
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: frankly didn't consider a whole lot. I was a pro-life member.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I started working with Rosa Delora, who was a pro-choice member.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I started working with NARAL on trying to increase access
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: to birth control and contraception. And through that process, I,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: for the first time in my life, met women who
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: had abortions and who had very complicated circumstances that they
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: went through. And you can see that my position slowly
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: through committee votes and everything over the course of my
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: career started to change. And it got to the point
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: where I just was going to change. And I wrote
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: an op-ed in the Akron Beacon Journal. And, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: it was one of those things like if you don't
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: trust me on it, like there's nothing I can do.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: But it was an honest evolution because of I met people.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: And you can talk to like people at NARAL now
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: and they will tell you like Tim was very open minded.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: We worked with him really well. we had an honest dialogue,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: even when I was a pro-life person, like we were
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out how we solve a problem. And
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: they were very open-hearted and I was open-hearted and things
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: just kind of went down that direction to where I
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: couldn't think, I did not think that the government should
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: be between a woman and her doctor. And the same
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: thing happened with, um, the NRA, uh, in which, you know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: after watching these terrible, uh, school shootings that, it changed me.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just, I hope, I think it like
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: it affected everybody in the country and to just watch
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: the NRA not even want to try to be a
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: part of the solution on anything. Like they didn't even
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: want to have a conversation. And, and that to me was,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: was offensive. I gave all my NRA money back to
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: the gun control groups and, um, and said, um, you know,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I'm done. I mean, this is saying, again, you can
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: see my, my votes evolve slowly over time and my committee, um,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: where people try to put riders on bills for these
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: different things. And again, it's like, look, I mean, I,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: all I can tell people is a progressive is like,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I met people, I learned things, I watched, my heart
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: was affected by what I saw and who I met.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: And I changed my position knowing that there would be
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: people saying, oh, he's just, you know, changing his position.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So, um, would, Would you campaign on gun safety proposals?
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have. I mean, I have been. I think
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: it's an important component. But I will say this. We're
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: talking about social and emotional learning in the schools. I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: think we've got to start playing offense. I mean, yeah,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: of course, we need an assault weapons ban and background
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: check and Charleston loophole and all of that. But we
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: need to play offense. And when you look at 90%
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: of the kids who do school shootings actually come from
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: the school or actually in the school. And 70% of
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: those kids say that they felt bullied, they felt traumatized,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: they felt isolated. And what the social and emotional learning
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: programs do is they really try to connect the kids
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: to each other and build that support system, connect them
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: to the teacher, connect them to the community. And so
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: when the people that evaluated Sandy Hook, they came out
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: with three top three proposals. As to how to prevent
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: this from ever happening again. And it was the gun
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: control issues. It was mental health and it was social
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: and emotional learning. That's what they discovered can best prevent
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: this from happening in the future. So let's start playing
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: offense in America. I mean, I guess if there's one
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: theme that I'm really going to push, it's like, why
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: do we sit back and accept this idea that that
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: we were just surviving? You know, we want to thrive.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: We want our kids to thrive. We want our communities
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: to thrive. And let's play offense like we know social-emotional
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: learning works. Let's do it. We know that a small
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: tweak in some of our diet and getting coached by
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: our doctors and rewarding them, that works. Let's go. Let's
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: do it. You know, we know yoga and mindfulness and
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: these things help veterans heal and get off taking 15
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: prescription drugs a day. What are we waiting for? You know,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: we know there's going to be 30 million electric vehicles.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: We know additives growing at, you know, 25 to 30
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: percent a year. What are we doing?
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Every candidate who comes through Pod Save America here has
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: written a book, and those books are almost all the same.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: They vary in writing ability and storytelling, but they're memoirs
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: or they're bios or slash campaign plans, slash policy platforms.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: You wrote a book. long before his presidential campaign. It's not,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: it's very different than all these other books. And it's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: about mindfulness, which I think would catch a lot of
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: people by surprise. You've listened to this interview and sort of,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: or look at your bio and it's like Tim Ryan,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns, chicken wings, Miller light. And he's writing about yoga.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Like I'd like, I'd like to know like how you
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: got involved in that, how it became such a passion
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: for you. And like, would you be our first Yogi president?
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably. Yeah. So I, I told you I went
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: to Catholic school. I had a priest, Father Crumley, who
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: was very involved in my Catholic school. I went to
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy High School in Warren, Ohio. And he
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: taught me centering prayer. And centering prayer is an old
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Catholic meditation technique that the Catholic monks used a thousand
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: years ago. And I loved it. It was like, you know,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: quiet time, great for your head and all that other stuff.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And then I also knew about Phil Jackson. I was a,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: you know, athlete growing up. So Phil Jackson, the coach
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: of the Chicago Bulls, I'm dating myself, right? And it's not,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: it's not LeBron and Kobe. It's like Michael Jordan. He,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Phil Jackson taught meditation yoga to his players and they
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: obviously performed at, you know, very, very high levels. And
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: I thought, you know, Catholic priest is like, you know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: great guy. And Phil Jackson, my favorite coach, like there's
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: gotta be something here. And I did, it sent me
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: on a journey. to really explore different kinds of meditation
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: over the course of my life. And right after President
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Obama got elected in 08, I was getting to the
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: point where I was almost burnt out. I mean, I
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: had been in Congress now six, seven years, traveling Ohio,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: campaigning with everybody. We had taken the majority back in 06,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: and I went on a five-day retreat right after the election,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And it was more and more silence over the course
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: of that retreat to the point at the end there
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: was 36 hours of silence. And it was basically you
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: try to follow your breath. Your mind will go to
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: the past and the future and you try to bring
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: it back to your breath. And what happens is your
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: stress level goes down because you're thinking about the present
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: moment as opposed to being anxious about the past or
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: the future, which is all it is. It's stress like
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: what I say stupid last week to somebody, my wife,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: my kid, whatever. And what do I worry about in
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: the future? And so I had a really profound experience
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: of how powerful the present moment is and how you
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: can actually cultivate being in the zone, like an old athlete, right?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking like, this is like being in the zone.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Like you can be in flow and you can actually
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: get your mind in that state. And I'm years and
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: years away from having ever been an athlete, right? And
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I immediately thought, boy, these vets coming back could really
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: use this. You know, I thought that this would be
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: great for our healthcare system because stress is such a killer.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: You know, it causes inflammation, and inflammation causes high blood
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: pressure and heart disease and all this other stuff. And
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: our school kids, like, I just thought, your focus, your
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: concentration level goes, like, you can really, it's like sharpening
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: a blade. You can really become super sharp, which, like,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: you see Tom Brady, you see LeBron James, you see
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Kobe Bryant. It's like, how did they get that way?
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, they do these practices. So I became a
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: very passionate advocate for it because it's cheap, and there's
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: no side effects, and it can have tremendous benefits for
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: people that I hope people will try it. I don't
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: really push it down anybody's throat, but I do say
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: that it can be very, very beneficial. And so I
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: became a very passionate advocate for it, and I do
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: some hot yoga, too, a little beat-up athlete's body. Hot
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: yoga makes me feel good.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Last question. You have a choice. You, Tim Ryan, can
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: win the 2020 election. or the Cleveland Browns can win
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: the Super Bowl?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. That is an unfair, totally unfair question.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: It would be close, but I would take being president.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I hope you don't have to run for re-election.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's been great. But we're excited about the
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Browns this year. It's like finally we got some game.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: High expectations now.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: We're keeping them moderated. We don't want to get nutty. But, yeah,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: we're excited.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: You trade for a couple of flamboyant wide receivers from
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: New York, and you might not work out that way.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Well, fortunately, they're friends. Landry and Odell are
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: old friends, so hopefully. And Baker, he's a grinder. I mean,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: he's great. He's, like, there 7 in the morning. He's, like, going.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: So we're really excited about it, and I'm excited about
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to be here. I'm big fans of you guys, and,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm excited about trying to build something. I mean,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I think people over the course of this interview can
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: really see that I'm trying to talk about things differently.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to change the conversation, you know, and definitely
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: want to invite people to come to timryanforamerica.com and try to,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: you know, be a part of what I think can
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: be a really big shift in the country. And I'm
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: excited about it.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: All right, Congressman Tim Ryan, thank you so much for
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: joining us on Pod Save America.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thank you.