Latest / 3 and Out with John Middlekauff / Max Browne on being QB at USC & Pittsburgh, calling games for ACC Network, Arch Manning, Clemson, Miami

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Max Browne on being QB at USC & Pittsburgh, calling games for ACC Network, Arch Manning, Clemson, Miami · 3 and Out with John Middlekauff

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: The Volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecoff, Three
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and Out Podcast. Hopefully everyone is doing well, enjoying themselves.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Better than Jackson Dart, which we'll dive into off the top.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Then joined by former USC Trojan and current ACC, the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: number one color guy for ESPN, Max Brown. He's got
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a fascinating story. Played for Lane, played for Sark. Now
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: calls games for several years on TV. cool guy. So
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I am excited to have him on. You guys know
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the drill. If you listen on Colin's feed, subscribe to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Three and Out. Shows up on Netflix. We got content
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: on the YouTube page. And let's just dive into the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: big story of the day. And that would be Jackson Dart.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: That is just devastating. I mean, the quarterbacks to lose.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: We've been talking about this now for 48 hours. Jaden Daniels,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Caleb Williams, and Jackson Dart and potentially Jaden and Jackson
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Dart for the season is just devastating. You know, I mean,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: these guys, I heard Colin say it, they're fun players, right?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: We've seen Jaden be really good a couple of years ago,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: but you can see in that Dallas game, he was
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: starting to get his legs under him after basically missing
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: all season. Like he's a enjoyable player to watch, you know,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: on Sundays. And obviously Jackson looked like he had a
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: chance to Have a really, really good season. Even on
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the play that he got injured with by the two
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Rams guys chopping him in half. Beautiful throw. I mean,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: hit his guys in the hands. So there's nothing you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: can do. Next man up. Stay ready is easy to say.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Kurt Warner's a once-in-a-25-year thing. Most times when the backup
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: quarterback comes in, especially on a team that this doesn't
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: have an identity of winning. This isn't Drew Locke being
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: inserted and you're going to keep winning until Sam comes back.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Or last year, Mac Jones, a guy that started Alabama
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and then he started in the pros. and could be
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a game manager and help you win some games. Like,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Jameis is just, they're screwed. It sucks to say this,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: but the New York Giants season ended the moment he
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: was laying on the ground. And he kind of held
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: out hope because, like, he wanted to come back in.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Skadaboo even said that. The Jackson looked at him like
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't let me. And the guy saying four to
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: six to John Harbaugh, who I saw someone say it's
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: like when the president gets in his ear some awful news.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: That's how John looked. And the news I'm sure today
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: as he starts getting the images is like, yeah, bro,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: he ain't coming back. It's like, well, year one's kind
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of a wash. And, you know, Jameis after the game
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: saying like about his struggles, well, they knew I was
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: going to pass. I understand that if you're getting sacked constantly. But, Jameis,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you're skipping balls. Like, there were guys open and you
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: couldn't complete passes. The interception you threw was like right
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to the dude in yellow. Ugliest uniforms you will ever see. Also,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: those Rams uniforms were awful. But they made Jameis look
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: like a high school player. Because, you know, they don't
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: have many options. It's not like you're going to be
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: able to trade for guys. I mean, look at the Bears.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: caleb who unlike those guys looks like he avoided disaster
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: now we'll see like a hamstring can take i i
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: don't feel confident that he's gonna be back in a
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: week or two like if you told me he misses
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: six games or five games you know it's definitely possible
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: with an athletic quarterback this isn't you're not talking tom
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: brady or peyton manning that doesn't have to move much
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: like a huge part of caleb's game but you know
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: he's coming back It's like, well, Tyson Badgett can just
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: hold serve and just win every other game. Well, now
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: he's got a concussion, and we've got to watch Case
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Keenum play the Eagles on Monday Night Football, which I
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: think we'd all agree, kind of like the Eagles in
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that matchup, if you're going to roll out Case Keenum,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do. Guys get injured. It's out
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: of everyone's control. But, man, these injuries for these young quarterbacks.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: It's one thing if it's an old guy. Like last year,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers breaks his wrist or whatever. You're like, yeah,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: just 41 years old. When it's Jackson Dart and Jaden Daniels,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: and listen, there were some question marks with Jackson being
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: too reckless, and then he gets injured in the pocket,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: or at least at the back end of the pocket.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Jaden Daniels just drops on his elbow. Same thing happened
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: last year. Caleb just gets a hamstring, but it's just drip, drip, drip,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and then you've got to watch these primetime games with
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: these backup players. And it just sucks. Now, the Giants,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: they had high hopes. After week one, you're like, this
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: team definitely can compete for a wild card spot. This
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: team could be in the mix. And now it's like
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I said it on Monday night. Every game that Jameis
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Winston starts for them, I will pick them to lose.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: That includes against the Titans. That includes against the Arizona Cardinals.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying they can't win those games, but I
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: will not Select them to win the game. And I
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: would imagine a lot of people will not either. Not
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the guy that we just saw the other night. This
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is a 12-year veteran. It's one thing if, hey, rookie, nerves,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Monday Night Football, against the preseason Super Bowl favorite. There's
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: a lot going on. This is a guy who's been
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: around forever. Played in a million games. And looked like
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: he had never played in one. So I feel for
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Giants fans. I feel for Commanders fans. It sucks for
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Bears fans because all of a sudden you start losing games.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: If you end up not winning the division, it could
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: be the difference of making a wild card or not
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: just because Caleb missed a month of football. And then
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Tyson got injured. All of a sudden you lose three
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: or four and you're just way behind the eight ball.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden you're like, wait, we're two and four?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And then it puts a ton of pressure on you
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: moving forward. So it sucks. There's just no way around it.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: It's a brutal part of football. it does feel, and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I talked about this, somewhat avoidable if we got back
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: to doing some old school philosophical beliefs on how to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: operate in the offseason, but those days are done. We're
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: never going back. So we just got to get used
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to it. We're just going to have to watch some
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: backup quarterbacks and backup players all over the NFL and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: just enjoy it. And if it's a lot of Jameis Winston,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that's like I watch a lot of football. That's not
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: an enjoyable experience. And for Giants fans out there, That's
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: got to be just brutal. It's a disgusting thing to consume,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: knowing you go into every game and you have no
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: chance to compete. I mean, Giants fans had to be thinking, hey,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: even if we lose against the Rams, Titans and the Cardinals,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden we're 3-1, feeling pretty good about ourselves.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: We've already beat the Cowboys. Can we just split against
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the Eagles and give ourselves a chance to win the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: division or at least be in the mix come November
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: and December? All those dreams are just.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Out the window.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I don't even feel like most of the snaps now matter.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: The games don't matter. It stinks. Let's just dive into
• 7:13
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• 7:24
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• 7:27
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• 7:39
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• 7:46
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• 9:12
  Speaker 1: clearing organization. Okay, excited to have Max Brown, who I
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: met at the Super Bowl several years ago. It's weird,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little older than you, and I've
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: known about you since you were a high school kid,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and then followed your college career, and then my buddy
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Guy obviously was at the Pac-12 for a long time,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: so that's when I saw you getting your media career going,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and now you're the top ACC crew for ESPN, so...
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Happy to have you, and congrats on everything, bro.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: It's good to be here, John. Now, this is a
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: long time coming. Yeah, I remember the days of uh
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you and guys pod like i know you as like
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: the dude executing on youtube and then to see the
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: climb from afar uh been trying to take a page
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: out of your book but now man it's uh it's
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: good to connect feels like this is a long time coming.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: How long uh have you been calling games now for.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: This is my third year of a full slate every week,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: but then I was the number three guy for Pac-12 Networks, RIP,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: for about three years. So this is the sixth year
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: in some capacity, but third full year, second with ESPN.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about this because you, for those that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: don't know, were the number one high school quarterback. 2012,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: is that your senior year?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, 2013. Yeah. I did the whole graduate high school
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: early thing in 2012, but yeah, 13.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: So 2013, you got Lane Kiffin, Nick Saban, Bob Stoops.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: You got everybody coming at you. And that's about 10
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: years too early because in 2026, they would have come
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: at you with some direct deposits. I mean, you ever,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: you go to some, I have buddies that scout that
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: go to all the big programs and they say, John,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the parking lot at you pick big school. is nicer
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: than the parking lot for the our NFL team and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: especially you know in the NFL you get some of
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: these lots some of the guys don't care so they're
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: driving old trucks or whatever he's like it it blows
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: your mind when you pull up to these especially like
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the top 15 schools it's it's it's wild.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I literally had a conversation with Rich Rodriguez on Friday
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: and he goes guys this is ridiculous I got a
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: like backup running back who is not even in the
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: game plan whatsoever and driving a nicer car than like
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: our well-played, well-paid, you know, third decade in running backs coach,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: like dudes making more than their actual coaches and not
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: even playing. It's, it's crazy. I mean, no joke. Like
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: my banking, I probably missed out even my playing career,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: which in college, like didn't necessarily go according to plan.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: My bank account probably missed out on like what? $ 2
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: million in today's money to two and a half million dollars.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I say as the number one quarterback coming out. So it's,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: it's crazy, but I'm genuinely happy for the players. Cause I,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: The reality is a lot of these guys aren't really
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: utilizing their degree if we're calling balls and strikes. And so,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: you know, cashing while you can in the college degree
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: sounds great, but getting some money is not too shabby either.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: One thing, I mean, you watch as much college football
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: as anybody. I don't have much of a life on
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the weekend, so I watch college football sun up till sundown.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: The effort, it doesn't seem like it's changed despite all the–
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, you had random guards making 500 grand. I
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: think the area that's changed, you spent many years at
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: USC before transferring. You were a grad transfer, correct? That's
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: what you had to do back then. Yep. Which has
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: always happened. But to me, the people that you played
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: with at USC and all the different generations before you,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to Leiner, to Sanchez, they spent all that time with
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a group of guys. And you developed a relationship that
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: when you're 50, 60, 70, those guys are your friends.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And now you see some of these guys, like when
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: they come up and make a play and they show
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: they've played at four different schools or three different schools.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: It's an incredible networking situation if you ever want to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: get into coaching. But just in terms of the relationships,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: it's kind of just a crazy life these guys are living, honestly.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm with you. Cool, they're getting paid. But
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: we've all been 18, 19, 20 years old. It just,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I wonder if some of them are like, yeah, probably
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have left. I should have just stuck that one
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: out and stayed at the program I was at originally
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: where the guys liked me and I would have eventually
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: played as, I don't know, a sophomore.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. And I had Max Johnson, Brad Johnson's son,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the quarterback who literally is in his seventh year of college,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: had him last week in the game that I had.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And it was you know, starts at Texas A &
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: M or LSU, then Texas A & M, then Carolina
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: with Bill Belichick. And then now Georgia Southern for like
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: his seventh year. And it's just that the trajectories is crazy.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I do have to check myself sometimes though, where like,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I do think this generation of athlete grew up in
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: like the AAU culture of both basketball, but then also
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: like seven on seven leagues where, you know, you're moving
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: from school to school and, you know, seven on 17
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to seven on 17, where I think a lot of
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: these guys are just numb to it, which is sad
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: because you're not getting the like, true camaraderie of, you know,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: those are your boys from like freshman to senior year
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of college. But I also, where I say I have
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: to check myself is like, I do think that's like
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: their normal where it's like not that big of a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: deal when you bring in 30 new guys, 40 new
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: guys to a roster. And it's like, Oh, yep. We
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: did that in high school as well. Um, so it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: kind of like, there's two sides to it.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: For sure. I want to go back. I was, uh,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: an awful high school football player. You were the number
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: one quarterback in the country. When you were having, Nick
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Saban came to your high school, correct?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't get him on campus, but many phone calls
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: in the lunchroom cafeteria.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So you had Nick Saban, Bob Stoops, you know, all
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the big boys offering you scholarships. How do you keep
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: humility walking around a high school campus knowing that, you know,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: The internet was really kind of taking shape. So, you know, people,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just magazines had to be delivered. What was
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: that experience like? Just trying to be a normal kid,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: but also not being normal at all from an athletic standpoint.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I always feel like I had like the fairytale
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: childhood experience. Like I went to my public high school
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and we were nationally ranked every single year when I
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: was in high school, which for a, you know, suburbs
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: of Seattle high school was, I don't know if that'll
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: ever happen again. But to answer your question directly, like
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: shout out Mike and Cheryl Brown, like lucky to have
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: two parents that, uh, my dad was definitely no nonsense
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: and like keeping you grounded and. my dad, Pat Narduzzi
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: famously called my dad, like not a quarterback dad, meaning
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: my dad was not the dad that was like sitting
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: at the 50 yard line and like president of the
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: booster club and all that. Like my dad, like kept
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: a low profile in the, you know, the top corner
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: of the bleachers, like not living vicariously through his kid.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: He was super supportive and at every one of like
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: my quarterback training sessions and all that. But I was
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: lucky in that way. And it was just a dream.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I had a unique setup in that the
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: quarterback before me at my high school was also the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: number one quarterback in the country. Ironically, Jake Heaps in
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: the class of 2009, 2010. BYU, right? Yeah, yeah. And
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: in the context of your question, like as a seventh, eighth,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: ninth grader, and I was his backup as a ninth grader,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: like I saw firsthand what it looked like when Charlie
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Weiss showed up on the sideline when Notre Dame was
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in town playing Washington and like, You kind of I
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: did kind of learn just from observing that whole process.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: But it was a blessing. It was awesome. Still close
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: with tons of my high school homies. And in some way,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: like that was always the plan. Right. Like it is crazy.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: But when you're in it, it was like, yeah, like,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: of course, we're like, you know, getting these offers like
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: this is this is the plan. This is the dream. Like,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: let's go. Let's go do this thing.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you had quarterback rooms in your career that included
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Cody Kessler that people forget Bakersfield played in the NFL
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: for the Cleveland Browns. Started games, I think he might
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: have started his first game as a rookie. Sam Darnold,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Ben DiNucci, and Kenny Pickett. But when you go to SC,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the head coach at the time was a guy named
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Lane Kiffin, correct?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Just some dude named Lane Kiffin. Yep, he's the dude
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I signed under.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: What was that recruiting? Obviously, Coach O there with him.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: But John Baxter, who I worked with at Fresno State,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: was a special teams coach. And Scott Thompson, I think,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: was there at the time, too, a Fresno State guy.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So there's connections there. And I followed that program closely
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: at the time. And obviously, you went there. How did
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the decision to choose Lane Kiffin out of high school?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out Skodo, too. I'm glad you threw him
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: in there. I was going to shout him out. He
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: was the very first USC staffer I ever met because
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: he was the tight ends coach and the head of recruiting.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: All-time guy. But for me at that point, so... When
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I was a junior in high school, that's when the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: spring of my junior year was when that whole offseason,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: USC was the number one team in the country. So
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: that's Matt Barkley, Robert Woods, Marquise Lee coming off a
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: huge true freshman year. You know, USC, ironically, we're filming
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: this the week of the USC-Oregon game. That was the
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: year where USC went into Otson and beat Oregon. So, like,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: there was tons of buzz around USC. And, you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: at that time, like, I grew up on the Matt Leiner,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Reggie Bush era. And so... you know, when I, that
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: was what, when I was in third, fourth, fifth grade.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So like, those are my first football memories. So when
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you ask like, Hey, or like when people ask, what's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the pinnacle of football in my West coast brain, it
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: was USC. So to get that offer again with, you know,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Matt and Reggie kind of watching them growing up, USC
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: didn't take a quarterback in the class above me, which
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: was a huge window of opportunity. Barkley was on his
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: way out. So I had an opportunity to start as
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: a true freshman, like, you know, living in LA, the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: SC degree, like all those things kind of fell into place. And,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: you know, my senior year of high school, USC went
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: seven and six. It's the year that like Barkley, like,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: you know, it didn't go according to plan, but the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: recruit in me was like, sweet, that's more opportunity for,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: you know, me to come in here and get the
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: reins kind of thing. So it was a pretty easy,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: or for about three weeks that I was between USC
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and Oklahoma. And then what I always say nowadays is
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: if I was five years younger, Washington, I may have
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: gone to UW because UW was just not good when
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I was a kid. I was in eighth grade when
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: they went, oh, So everything kind of fell into place
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: to go play for Lane Kiffin.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: The crazy thing is your college career, you had a
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: front row seat. I saw it went viral recently of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: you telling the Lane story, maybe on your athletic show,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: about Lane getting fired in the tarmac. People forget like
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Within a year and a half, Sark got fired the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: morning of a team meeting. So you had a front row,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and these are two of, I don't know, Lane's probably
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the most famous college coach now with Saban out and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: all that surrounding him. I would say Sark top, what,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: three or four? I mean, he's the head coach of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the University of Texas. He's currently ranked number one with
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Arch Manning as his quarterback. And then the interim coach
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was Coach O, the interim coach for Lane. So he
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: was in the middle of then Sark. So you've seen
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: some shit, man.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: We had the whole coaching carousel. Yeah. Signed under Kiffin.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Then it went to Orgeron for six games, then Helton
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: for two during the bowl game where we played Fresno
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: state and Derek Carr and Devante Adams in the, in
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: the Vegas bowl. Then it went to Sarkeesian and then
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: went back to Helton. And then I ended up playing
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: for Pat Narduzzi my fifth year at, at Pitt, but
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it was crazy. I mean, Lane Kiffin is a completely
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: different coach than, Then compared to what he is now,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: like night and day, it's fascinating to me. Like people
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: forget when he got fired at USC, one of the
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: main criticisms was that he was not dynamic enough personality
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: wise to handle a blue blood program. That seems laughable
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: now where he's like literally the most dynamic from a
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: personality standpoint coach, probably in college football. And then the
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Sark stuff, that was a mess. I think Sark would
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: tell anyone that that was a mess for, coaches, players,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that was not good. But to his credit, he's got
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: things back on track. And if you would have said
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that he was coaching a Blue Bud program and the
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: number one team in the country, if you had told
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: me that 10 years ago when he got fired, I
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: would have said no way. So good on him for responding.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember going through scouting and knowing Scott and
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: knowing Bax. I'm like, oh, I'm going to have easy
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: access to Lane. This would be a great visit. Lane
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: was very– he had a huge– who just feel very
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: grumpy and angry. And you just kind of like, you
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: saw him and you just like kind of stayed away.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't even want to talk to that guy.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: The guy that you've seen, I would say the last
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: three or four years at Ole Miss. And obviously right
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: now is, I'm not even talking about the clearly him
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and Sark. You can tell the drinking aspect of their life.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: You see it on their face. Sark feels a little
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: GLP one lane, clearly for the working out. Like it's, it's,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it's it shows for lane you know when he's chubby
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and drinking and how good of shape he is in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: now but like it's i don't i don't know if
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: he just realized i have to change or like this
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: was always in him i i don't know i mean
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: did you ever see signs of this guy now that
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: shows or it's like i don't even recognize that human.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah i mean it's it's more the latter don't recognize
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the human um I've called, I had, I called his
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: game versus wake forest a couple of years ago and
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: we had a coach's meeting and I kind of asked
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: him like schematically, where was that turning point? Cause people
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: forget like, and I know you were asking about the person,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: but I think it's related to how he's changed schematically.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: People forget he was supposed to be the one that
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: like carried pro style football into the new generation. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: he now is like, you know, the innovator for spread
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: offense and you go back and like that changed for
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: him in like 2015 when he had Blake Sims as
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: his quarterback and things had to change. I say that
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: because I think the USC chapter for Lane Kiffin, whenever
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: his book comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if not
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: only did he have to take stock of where he
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: was at X's and O's wise and pivot because I
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: think he realized, hey, I got passed during my time
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: at SC from an offensive innovator perspective, but I also
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: think he took stock in the personal life of, he
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: was probably more tightly wound and he wasn't as dynamic.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And I think he probably allowed other people to kind
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: of maybe have a bigger voice in his program and rather,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: rather than like him running it his way. And, you know,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: not like at SC, I think he was trying to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: be the next Pete Carroll at USC because that's what
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: everyone wanted at that time versus, you know, I think
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: now it's more, I'm not going to be Pete Carroll.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be Nick Saban. I'm going to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: be my own guy. And I think he had to
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: go through that SC chapter to, to figure that out, which, Hey,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: that's like growth on a human level. But I think whenever, yeah,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: whenever his book comes out, that USC chapter, I think
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: hitting rock bottom and taking stock of everything in his life,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I think 100% was a huge, huge factor.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Is it safe to say Sark's personality, like the guy
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: that you see now, his life's more buttoned up, but
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the guy reminds you of the guy that you were around?
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: How long was Sark the head coach there?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: A year and a half? Not even?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Two years?
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Sark was there, yeah, a year and a half. And
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: then Sark was my– so Sark was the head coach
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: at the University of Washington, which, again, was like 25
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: minutes from where I grew up. They were my first offer.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Sark offered me like the weekend after my freshman year
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: of high school, so– I go, I go, you know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: way back with, with, with Sark and always got love
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: for like, you know, him giving the first, first opportunity. Uh,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: it's just so hard to answer that because it was
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: just a, like that whole chapter of him at SC
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: was just, it was like, he's a different person or like,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: it was just, it was just not, not good. Um,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: especially that second year.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Um, Are you calling your parents like, this is crazy?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm in. This isn't the transfer
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: portal area. You can't just pick up your shit and leave.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: You're kind of stuck. Are your high school buddies, your teammates,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: like what? What are we going to do? It had
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to be pretty nuts. The Lane situation was like, you
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: just weren't playing well, right? And he got fired in
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the tarmac because underachieved the expectations. The Sark thing, there was,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's easy to forget now, but like, Could
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: you argue that was worse, like more crazy from just
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: a human element, non-football?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, no doubt. No doubt. Like, I don't even think
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: it's close. But it's a good question. Like, I mean,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I was not calling my parents because at that time, like,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and people forget, you only get one shot at this
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: as a player. So, like, I don't have time to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, my head coach isn't great. Like, I
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: couldn't hop in the portal. If I hop in the portal,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: you got to sit out a year. And so... Everyone
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: in that building is incentivized, one, for Sark to have success,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: but then two, not to say anything. And that's one
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: thing that I think people forget of like, how did
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: he go so long without these issues arising sooner? And it's, well,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: if you're the athletic director, this is the guy you hired,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: you're incentivized for him to do right. Any coordinator, it's
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: just bad practice to go above and tattle on your
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: head coach. If you're a quarterback, like my livelihood is
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: tied to my head coach's livelihood. So I'm not going
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: to say anything really. And I, and as a backup,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: like I never really had like a super tight relationship
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: with Sarka as the starter, but it just, I guess
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: that the point there is like the reason you get
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: away with this is you can kind of isolate yourself
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: as the head coach versus, you know, you're a lot
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: more hands-on with your strength coach or your position coach.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And then before you know it, the thing, this little
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: controversy drags on for a year and a half.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: So when you made your, was your first start against Alabama?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: If you're 2016 Alabama, Nick Saban offense or defense with shoot,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: we're a decade into it. And there's probably still six
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to eight of those defenders playing in the NFL.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy. I mean, I remember that. Was that
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: a Jerry's palace in Dallas?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Jerry's world. And then I get tagged like clockwork every
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: single week, zero for the past decade. That was the
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: game where like USC players like crawling out onto the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: field and only to get blown out by Bama. The
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: clip goes viral, like September 1st of every year, the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: clip goes viral of like, Oh, I remember when USC
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: was crawling on the field, like a bear crawling on
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the field to get blown out 52 to six. Yeah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: That was, that was not a fun day.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So you'd waited a while, right? You backed up Cody
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Kessler once you got there. Um, And you get your shot.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: It's not even just Nick Saban week one, but you're thinking,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I could start a couple years. I'm sure you're thinking,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I'd do well, go to the NFL one day. This
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: is my career now. This is the start of my
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: career at the next level. And then within, what, a
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: couple weeks, Sam Darnold's the starting quarterback?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a wild path. I mean, while I
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: was backing up Kessler the whole time, I was like,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: The term I'd use is, oh, I'm taking the Mark
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Sanchez path where, hey, Sanchez waited his time for three years,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: starts as a redshirt junior. You know, he was one
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: and done off to the NFL. Like to me, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: was like, sweet, I can do the same thing or
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: come back for a second year. And I'd rather start
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: at two years at USC than, you know, three or four,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: like a bad program kind of thing. And yeah. At
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: that time, too, I always had the connotation in the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: back of my mind that transferring was kind of like
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: failing or transferring was like giving up kind of thing,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: which now at 31 years old, I kind of look
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: back like that was probably a little too intense of me.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: But that was kind of the connotation of transferring at
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: the time, at least for a big-time recruit. At least
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: that's how I perceived it. But, yeah, I got announced
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: a starter a couple weeks before the Bama game. I'll
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: never forget that spring before, Clay Helton, who– Ironically, I
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: called his game. He's the head coach at Georgia Southern,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: called his game two weeks ago, but sat both Donald
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and I down on the couch and said, guys, I
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: got two NFL quarterbacks sitting right there. It's a great
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: problem to have. The only issue is only one of
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: you guys can start. Only one of you guys can play.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And at the time, I mean, it's funny now, like
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I never wore an NFL jersey and that dude just
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: won the Super Bowl MVP. But at the time I
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: was like, this is what you sign up for when
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: you go to SC, like bring it on. I know
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Donald's good, but you know I thought I was was
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: good too and ultimately did win the job but then
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: yeah we went one and two and then going one
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and two at USC with a coach in what his
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: first year and obviously Darnold waiting in the wings a
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: little bit of a shorter leash and they went with
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Darnold and rest is history that that team uh ended
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: up winning uh winning the Rose Bowl that year and
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Darnold's story is uh well documented but.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: That you had known because Sam had been on the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: team the previous year as a redshirt so you'd been
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: in meetings and practice like this he wasn't brand new
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: correct if I remember that correctly He wasn't brand new.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: We were, we were close. We're still like, I FaceTimed
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: him after the Superbowl win. We're still cool. He's, he's,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: he's a great dude. What's interesting about that dynamic though,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: that also gets lost for SC fans too, is like,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Darnold was the lowest rated quarterback recruit like that century
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: at SC. He kind of was a late riser. He
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: was still like a four star guy. Don't get me wrong.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: But like in the grand scheme of USC, he kind
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: of came out of nowhere. And the, that his class
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: USC signed two quarterbacks. He was the like raw guy,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: late riser. And then Ricky town was a five-star dude.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: And so, and Ricky town graduated early and he, he
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: didn't play well early. And so I, from my perspective,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, sweet. Like I got the five-star guy
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: beat out easy. Oh, there's this raw prospect coming in. Like, Oh,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: we're good to go. And sure enough, that raw prospect
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: ends up being, being Sam Darnold. But yeah, I knew,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I knew he was talented. I remember for his very
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: first scrimmage, our offensive coordinator was T Martin, the Tennessee great.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: And now he's on Lane Kiffin staff at LSU. There
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: was a play where Donald was like running around one
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: of the very first scrimmages and like does a classic Darnold,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: you know, escape the pocket deep ball down the field.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And T Martin was like, he's a young Brett Favre,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: which I always thought was a good comp for Darnold
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: that never really got traction necessarily. But that, I'll always
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: remember that of like, in my mind, I was like,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: oh shit, I'm in trouble. This dude can play.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: See, it's like, you know, when you're a big time
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: recruit and you're choosing between the best of the best,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're just getting great players coming in every year.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: You know, quarterback, they're only one guy plays, but it's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: no different than like tackle or, you know, defensive end.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, all these programs are just, especially now in
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the NIL era, it's like one year you can be starting,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: you don't do well, boom. Like, Lane has a couple
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: guys he's probably already ready to replace, and it's actually
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: way easier to replace now in the portal era than
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: it was in yours, because you still had to replace
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: him with a freshman, so if you were like a junior,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you had physically an advantage, but still, at SC, I mean,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: most of my life, they were getting the, I mean,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: look at now, the class they have now, those, Mosley
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and the tight end, I mean, they look like NFL
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: players as 18, 19-year-olds, and that's the SC that I remember,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and Lane and Stark tried to bring back, and then
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: it kind of got derailed there for a little bit.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: But Lincoln's definitely doing a good job. Then you transfer
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: to Pitt, where your quarterback room is Ben DiNucci and
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: freshman Kenny Pickett. I mean, you're at some pretty high level.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, all these guys are like NFL players. I mean,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Kenny Pickett, Sam Darnold, first-rounders. Cody Kessler, what, third-rounder?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're watching this on YouTube,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I think my best-performing YouTube video ever is every quarterback–
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I lost a competition to was an NFL starter or
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: something like that. And it's all, all five of those guys. Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: And it's funny too, because, you know, Pitt brought me
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: in after Nate Peterman, who also was a transfer quarterback
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: that had success. And they brought me in because like, candidly,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: like they didn't think Ben DiNucci was that good. And
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: to DiNucci's credit, like he's crushed it. He kind of,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: took the next step that spring and then he ended
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: up being an NFL starter. So it's just funny. And
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I remember my official visit that December. I just left
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: the USU program and it was the same weekend as
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Kenny Pickett and Kenny Pickett had like the Justin Bieber
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: haircut with the Letterman's jacket. And he was like three-star
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: recruit from New Jersey. Like I wasn't necessarily thinking a
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: whole lot of them. And then he quickly, you could
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: tell like, Oh yo, this guy's got something. And then
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I got hurt like week five or six and Pickett
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: ultimately went in there. And then, Four years later, let
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: him do an ACC title.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. He was there for a long time. So
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: you guys basically had a quarterback competition with you and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: DiNucci that year going into your last year at Pitt.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: And then, like you said, you got hurt because you had,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I was reading, had the best game of your career.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You guys played Rice. You had a lot of momentum going.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And then you injured your shoulder, correct? And it was
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: kind of obviously a season ender, but also did they
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: tell you you're never going to play football again?
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: They didn't tell me that. I think they didn't want to,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: you know, rain on my parade. I think in hindsight,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: they probably knew it was going to be tough to like,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I tore everything in my right shoulder. And as a,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you know, when you throw with your right arm, it's
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: going to be a tough, a tough climb back. But yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: I got, got sacked in that Syracuse game, ripped up
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the shoulder. That's that's all she wrote. But yeah, I mean,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: battling with, with Danucci that, that off season I did get.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So we, we, Opened up with Youngstown State. Then we
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: played the Saquon Barkley Penn State Nittany Lions squad on
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the road that had, you know, Gusecki and Robinson out
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: wide stack roster. Then week three, we played Mason Rudolph
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: and James Washington and Mike Gundy's Oklahoma State squad that
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: put up like 60 on us. Then Narduzzi benched me
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: for the next game, only then deferred to Nucci, not
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: going according to plan. Put me back in the second half.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Then we do the Rice game you just talked about,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Syracuse the game after. And, yeah, a few weeks later
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: it was Kenny Pickett's squad.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: You probably don't realize it at the time, but, like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: your football career is over. You obviously probably are disappointed.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Clearly it didn't go how you would have ever envisioned
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: coming out of high school. But, like, in the grand
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: scheme of things in life, former college quarterback, went to SC. Like,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you're going to have a lot of opportunities. Like, it's
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: easy to look back and be like, there were going
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to be some doors that I was going to have
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: at least access to try to get through. But at
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the time, as your career, like you're not going to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: play football anymore, your senior year, you're now at Pitt, right?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: You're away from the West Coast. I mean, are you just,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: are you mentally devastated? You hear some of these stories,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: you know, your life's going really well now, but at
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: the time, 22, 23 years old, are you pretty down
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: in the dumps?
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I appreciate you asking that.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Like it's, those, those are dark times and, it's easy
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: now that like things have fallen into place for me
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and like I have a great life, super, super blessed.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: It's easy to like look back and be like, oh,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: of course, like, you know, things kind of worked out
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: and all that. But when you're in it, even for
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a guy like me, like, you know, I had two
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: degrees and, you know, worked the system and got a
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: master's degree and, you know, was at least aware that
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: there was life after football. But even after that, man,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I remember like you know, I was still training for
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: the NFL in 2018, but like, I don't know what
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do. I ended up moving to New
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: York to take kind of like a minimum wage job
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and like marketing to get my foot in the door there.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: And luckily the broadcasting stuff, you know, I kind of
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: kept watering that on the side and that, that, that,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: that came to fruition, but those are dark times. And
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: especially when, you know, yes, it was a blessing to
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: be a quarterback at USC, but like, I don't look
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: back on my college experience with like Oh, that was
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a great time. Like I, and I'm a positive guy.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Like I'm, I'm not trying to be negative, but like
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: if I'm calling balls and strikes, like that wasn't like
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: the best experience. I don't look back on my like
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: college football days. Like, Oh wow. That was awesome. It's
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: football was a blessing and football gave me a lot,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: but like, those were some, there's a lot more difficult
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: times at SC and Pitt than like, you know, joyful times. And, Again,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I don't say that to be negative. I say that honestly,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: because I think most people that are on a camera
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: talking ball now who did play, you know, have an
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: illustrious playing career and it's awesome. And they go back
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: home to their school and, you know, they get the
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: jersey retired and all that. That wasn't that wasn't my
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: my setup, but forever grateful for like those lessons that
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: it taught me, because I think it gave me a
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: lot of perspective, a lot of grit. And, you know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: it certainly certainly tests you at a younger age.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Well, the one thing is if you're a failure or
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: a quote-unquote bust in the NFL, especially if you're a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: high pick, you're still making a lot of money. Now,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: same thing in college. If things aren't going well, let's
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: use Jackson Arnold or some guy that starts at Oklahoma.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: He's still going to make a couple million dollars over
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the course of his quote-unquote underperforming college career. In your
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: day and age, you're getting the stipend. you're still having
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: to probably– I mean, you're going to class, right? I mean,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that vibe of like this is not going how I envisioned,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: walking around campus. The team's not as good as it
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: was in its heyday under Sark and Lane, right, when
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: they were assistants. So it's not– would you say it
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: was more gloomy around the program than like upbeat and positive?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, Lane fired, the Sark situation. That was just a–
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a dark time that you were– involved
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: in a lot of stuff out of your control that
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: had to be kind of crazy with and then all
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the negative you know not playing slash not playing well
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: when you got your opportunity.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah I mean it's it's um it was crazy but
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: at a certain point we just kind of got used
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to the craziness too like by the time we're getting
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: onto Clay Helton like my redshirt junior year you know
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: or even when like, you know, the Sark shenanigans happened,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it was just like, yep, this is kind of like
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the new norm. You go from Kip and getting fired
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: on the tarmac and that whole situation to not only
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like the foundation of all this is like sanctions. So
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: there already was a foundation of like, you know, this
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: is crazy. So you just kind of got used to
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: it and numb to it. But yeah, Yeah, it's crazy.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And your point about Jackson Arnold too, like that's why,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: you know, now I've been covering this for six years.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I do not that I'm trying to like rip any,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: any quarterbacks, but like, I do think it's easier to
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: like be critical of quarterbacks because, or like any players.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Cause it's like, to your point about Jackson Arnold, I've
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: never met the kid and he's had a disappointing college career.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure he would tell you that as well.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And hopefully he does great things at UNLV this last year,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: but like that dude's walking away with like $ 6 million
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: in his college career, $ 7 million, you know, $ 5 million,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: whatever it is. Like it's hard. It's not, and I'm
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: not trying to be like bitter or anything, but it's
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: just like his life is forever changed regardless of whether
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: or not anything works out football wise. And I think
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: that's awesome. Players deserve it, but it's certainly a new,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: certainly a new era.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Do you think now that you're doing the ACC, uh,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: If you hadn't transferred and played that season for Pitt
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: and Narduzzi, do you think your calling, your broadcasting career
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: was trajectory up, but being involved with the ACC, is
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: it safe to say that changed your life?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think it definitely changed my life. Yeah. And,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: you know, that's where I'm super grateful for football in
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: my experiences. And the classic, like you can only connect
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: the dots in life looking backwards to what John's saying is,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: you know, now I'm calling games for ACC. The tie
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: there is that I had hit that fifth year. And
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, optics wise within the ESPN, you know,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: talent office. oh yeah, you know, you get, you have
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that connection and you look at all the other folks
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: around the ACC, you know, my play-by-play guy, Wes Durham
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: has Georgia Tech connections. You know, you got Jimbo who's
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: got Florida State connections, EJ Manuel, Roddy Jones, like they
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: all have ACC connections, a hundred percent. And super grateful
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: for that. And grateful for Pitt too. I was only
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: there for 12 months, but Pitt treats me like I
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: was there and won championships for, for four years and
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Narduzzi and Chris LaSalle have been awesome to me. So, Yeah,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that was a game changer for my career and my life.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you about my friends at Quince? You know,
• 41:06
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• 41:11
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• 41:19
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• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Quince.com slash three and out. Well, doing this new job,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you know, now that you've done it for a couple years,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: gone into the same programs, a lot of them, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Dabo's been there forever. You've known Narduzzi forever. James is new,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: but Getting to know Norvell's been there the whole time.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: How do you balance? Because now with all the aggregators
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: and the blogs, if you make a comment about something
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you were told by a coordinator or a coach, kind
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: of like shooting the breeze, not necessarily about what you're
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: going to use. are you very cognizant of that? Like
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: when you're talking to someone, like I could use that
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: or like, I got to store that away. Cause there's,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you know how football guys talk. You can just be
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: having a conversation all of a sudden, 30 minutes later,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: you know, everything you're like, damn, I got some ammo,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: but you got to be careful. A lot of people,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are massive programs, right? Clemson obviously is
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: under a microscope, especially right now, Florida state UNC, you know,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: you did, what would you open with? NC state had
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of high hopes. Isn't there a quarterback making
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: a ton of money? And that, that clearly has been
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a nightmare.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's, I think it naturally, I don't, I
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: don't put a lot of thought to it. Cause I
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: think it's, I think, I mean, you can relate to this.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Like there was a, you have a natural kind of
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: compass of like, where's that line of like, Hey, it's
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: too far. And that's just, you know, just for behind
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: closed doors and you don't want to burn that relationship
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and burn that bridge. Cause that's one thing like for me,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see these coaches again, the very next
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: week and I'm going to see them next year and Hey,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: you know, if I've learned one thing, like they might
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: get fired from one school and I'm going to see
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: him at another school. I think the more delicate balance
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: for me is like, you know, when you go on
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: podcasts or radio shows or I do like my, you know,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: short form clips and like, you know, you owe it
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: to your followers, your fans and the people that listen
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: to your content to give like, you know, teeth to
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: your takes. And if your teeth to those takes is that, hey,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you know, Dabo Sweeney isn't, isn't doing good things. Well,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: then I got to go see Dabo Sweeney, you know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: in person in two weeks kind of thing. And like,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: what's that delicate balance. And in my career, like early on,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I think I struggled to navigate, Hey, you know, where
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: is it appropriate to be critical, but then there's being
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: critical and there's being fair. And I think, you know,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: as long as you're being fair and you're doing the
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: work to like earn the right to be critical of
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: these coaches, in my opinion, I think deep down, they all,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: they all respect that.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So what's your– I mean, you've done some Clemson games.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been in that program. You know, they are–
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: they're under it right now, right? I mean, it's just pretty–
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, last year the expectations were super high. Then they–
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: obviously it does not go well, but they still have
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a million draft picks. So it's like, well, it's not
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: a talent issue. Like you watch Florida State, you're like,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I clearly don't have the money to buy the sweet players. Well,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: last year Dabo, how many guys did they have drafted
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: in the top 100, right?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: And Dabo– You know, he's very prideful. He's a champion.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: He gets defensive. What's your thoughts on that situation? Obviously,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the transfer portal, he hasn't quite adapted. It's one thing, like,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Belichick struggling. Like, Bill had never worked in college football
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: in his life. You know, this has been– I mean,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Dabble's beaten Nick Saban. You know?
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: He was going toe-to-toe with him, back-to-back years.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Beat him.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Did he beat him twice? So it's like, what are
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: we talking about?
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: I think it speaks to just how quickly like the
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: landscape of college football changes. And what I mean by
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: that is, you know, when I was in, when I
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: was a high school recruiting in college, you know, Clemson
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: was Clemson and Oregon were the two cutting edge programs,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: like literally from offensive scheme. Clemson was the first one
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: to bring like the high flying spread offense to the ACC.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Clemson was the first one to go all in on facilities.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: And when other programs were rolling their eyes about like, Oh,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you don't need recovery centers and you don't need, a
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: mini golf course out there. Like what's that going to do?
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Sure enough, nowadays, like everyone is trying to do that.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, Dabo was on the cutting
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: edge of, of kind of, yeah, my generation of, of, of, of, of,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: of athlete and kind of what it meant to, you know,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: to like that, that, that modern athlete. And then now
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I think he gets leapfrogged where he did not embrace
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the transfer portal, which is, you know, the modern way
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: to build a program. And I think, you know, that's,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: that's put his program in, behind and I think when
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: he needs to fill gaps like you know his decision
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: to not go in the portal and get a transfer
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: portal quarterback when there are what three dozen quality quality
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: college football starters out there and Clemson doesn't have one
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: yes I know you like the true freshman guy Tate
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Reynolds who will be very good but I just don't
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: think at this stage in your program you cannot have
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: a signal caller that is in that top echelon if
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: you're if you're Clemson so you miss on that. And
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: it just feels like, and I relate to this a
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: little bit with the USC days, that it feels like
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: they're kind of, you know, building a foundation on what
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: we did yesterday kind of thing. And like, we're Maddie,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Maddie Clemson. And cause we won a national title, you know,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: what eight years ago and six years ago. And that's
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: how it was when I was at SC is we
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: were kind of resting on like, Hey, well we're the
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Pete Carroll, you know, we're still, still riding the Pete
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Carroll days kind of thing. And, You've got to earn that.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And that's not given. And you blink and three, four,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: five years goes by and, you know, other teams can
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: pass you by.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: If you and me ran a college scouting department, we're
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: both co-GMs. And I said, my philosophy is going to
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: be simple. We're one of the top programs. I'm never
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: messing with high school quarterbacks. It's just too easy every
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: single year to buy a more than capable guy. Obviously,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: best case scenario, like Darian Mensah. But like, We can
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: just get solid starters who can immediately– we can build
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: around and hit the ground running. I would just– paying
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: guys out of high school is– like even Nico, what
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: he's turned into, it's really impressive what he's doing at UCLA,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: like from how far he's come. But he's still a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: work in progress. Or Bryce Underwood. It's like, why don't
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: we just go by, pick Josh Hoover. You pick 10, 12,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: 15 guys. And when you're the top programs, that's who
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with are the top five or six guys. So–
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Is being a high school quarterback more difficult now than ever,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: just in terms of like, I don't like Lane Kiffin
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: next year. If assuming Sam Levitt, he's a one and
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: done or goes pro or whatever. Like he ain't going
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: to have a true freshman playing quarterback for LSU.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting too, because then Kiffin, let's start with Kiffin.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Kiffin not only has Sam Levitt, he has Hassan Longstreet
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: who was big time quarterback recruit. He was USC's backup
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: last year. Like he's probably getting paid, good, good money.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: And he's our third string guy. They went and got the, uh,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: he was a like lower level D two or D
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: one AA guy. He was their backup guy. My point
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: there is like Kiffin is making a calculated effort with
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: LSU's salary cap to say, let's go get a pipeline
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: of guys that are, you know, relatively proven in, in
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: some capacity. The flip side is you're right. Like if
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Indiana, let's just keep getting the best signal caller
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: every single year that's on the market. But then when
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: everyone has that mentality, like it's simple market demands, like
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: there's only so many signal callers out there. And then
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: the flip side of that is like I'm intrigued to
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: see what happens with like Alabama and Tennessee next year
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: or Mississippi. state where like all three of those programs
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: took high school quarterbacks last year and kind of went
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: through some growing pains and the mississippi state kid this
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: year um he is a beast camario taylor he is
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: a beast and you by way to kind of Having
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: leash with growing pains last year, you reap the benefits
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: of this year. And like Tennessee, Tennessee's facing Texas this weekend.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Faison Brandon, as a true freshman, Tennessee's signal caller, that
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: dude is a stud. He's a baller. He's not going
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: to win you the SEC this year. But Tennessee next year,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: if Josh Hybel can convince his athletic director, hey, just
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: give me some time with this guy, Tennessee might be
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: in one of the best quarterback positions next year by
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: going through the growing pains with a true freshman, maybe
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Alabama too with Keelan Russell, who's not necessarily established. So
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: there's different ways to do it. I do agree that
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: your way is the cleanest, but it's risky, right? Because
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: not every year there's going to be six quarterbacks on
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: the market waiting for you.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: What's your take so far watching Arch play and just
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: all the hype behind it and everything that comes along with,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: you know, you can relate a little bit, the hype
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: coming out of high school and sitting and then getting
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: thrust into it. And it's, you know, I say all
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: the time, he's treated like he's Peyton or Eli's kid.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: He's Cooper's son, you know, but he might, he might
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: as well be Peyton's son. He's not Peyton, he's Cooper's son.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: It was a Sunday morning and Cooper does something on
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Fox pregame. I'm like, Maria, that is Arch's dad right there.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: She's like, who's that goofy looking man? That's Cooper Manning.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: That's his dad. I do feel for him there, the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: pressure that is now, then you're getting paid a lot
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of money, you've got to perform. They're playing Tennessee this weekend, Knoxville, right?
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Buckle up for that bad boy.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Game day's there. I think Arch deserves a ton of
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: credit for like staying level-headed and growing through like last season,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: like September and October of last year, that could have
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: gone off the rails in a hurry. We've seen it
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: go off the rails for other big-time quarterback recruits where
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you have a rough month and then you lose confidence
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and then you never get back. For him to have
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: that rough six weeks and then respond and then have
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: a really good month in November and then in December,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: we're talking about like, oh, just get ready for the
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: 27 draft. He's still the number one guy. Like for
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: him to fight through that as a kid who probably never–
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: had any sort of athletic shortcoming or failure that was
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: like his fault. Cause he's probably the best athlete, you know,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: growing up and he's a Manning and the whole deal.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: So I think he deserves a ton of, ton of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: credit for, for battling through that. What I've noticed is
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: like in his interviews, you can see his personality, obviously
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: it bit him in the butt, you know, a couple
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: of weeks ago with the whole AI clip, but like,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: you can see his personality emerge. And I think he's
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: getting a lot more like, you know, comfortable in that way,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: which is, if I was an NFL GM is not
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: insignificant because you see other quarterbacks that I don't ever
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: feel like get that level of comfort that you need
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: to really, you know, rally, rally a locker room. But
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: where I'm still hesitant and where he's not my top
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: guy yet from an NFL draft perspective is like you
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: turn on the film and consistently every game, he has
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: like three to five throws that I call like foul
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: balls where you're like, what are those? It's like low
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: and away into the dirt. It's, wide open receiver and
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: he sails it it's rolling out and you know he
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: throws it over the guy's head and i think we
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: like forget about it because then he like makes the
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: fantastic throw but that's where he's got if i'm a
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: gm he's got to sure that up because i just
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: think you get exposed those cannot happen in the uh
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: in the nfl.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Well if you put would you agree like mensa or
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: trinidad on texas they would be the prohibited favorite to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: win it even you know And that's why I think
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Miami is right there with them because they have the quarterback.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: And the difference is, like, I can't pick Texas to
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: win the national championship just because, I mean, even that
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: game against Ohio State, it's just there's a lot of, like,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: what was that? Now, some of it's not always college.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Guys are dropping balls. But I saw you do a
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: breakdown on Oklahoma and Mateer. And that's a guy that
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: high hopes coming into the season. But, man, no touch,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: only throws fastballs. What's your thoughts on watching him? Because
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of hype on this team. Like
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: if he played well, it's like they could be a
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Final Four type team because their defense is good. They
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: got skilled guys. But holy moly, he just hasn't been good.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The factor I put a ton of weight on
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: when I'm watching these guys is like how insulated are
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: they in terms of, you know, do you have the
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: benefit of a great run game, a great play caller,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: you know, a great offensive line, a great defense that
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: can protect you? Because I love the quarterbacks. I'm breaking
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: them down like aren't insulated where they went, hey, you're
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: rolling the ball out. If our team's going to win, hey, quarterback,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: you have to have an A or A-plus game. And
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Mateer has not been good. But Mateer, like how they
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: have not improved the run game from last year to
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: this year is beyond me. Last year, they went and
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: got Jay Knott, was the number one running back in
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: the transfer portal, and did absolutely nothing. You would think,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: you know... they would try or at least try to
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: figure out a new run identity there for Oklahoma, and
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: they haven't done it at all. And I don't think
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: that's helping Mateer because I think the entire offensive playbook
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: is on his shoulders to be successful. But you're right,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: he hasn't been executing at a high level. That Michigan film,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: there are certainly plays that got away from him. My
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: point there, though, is I still think if you put
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Mateer on Texas, I think still Texas is doing big things.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: So you're not totally out on him yet?
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Not out on him personally. I'm very concerned about the
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Oklahoma offense, but I don't immediately go to John Mateer
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: as trash. I go towards what are we doing from
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: an offensive identity play call standpoint? What is going on
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: with the offensive line? The receivers, they went and got
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Trell Harris in the portal. I don't feel like they're
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: getting that much separation. They're not going to throw to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: the tight ends all the time. It's not just a
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Mateer thing for me.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: My buddy, who I told you this before we started,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Scotty Rayburn, Newport Beach guy, he's like a big Cal fan.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Massive Cal. He's been sending me Tosh recruiting stories for
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the last nine months. Then they get their ass kicked
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: week one. He got me on to JKS last year.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: I think our quarterback's pretty sweet after week two. Then
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: this offseason, he's like, you've got to get Max Brown on.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: He's JKS' biggest fan.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: You know it.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: This is a guy that He's like a way better
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: version of Tua, right? Hawaiian, lefty, can move, can sling it,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: big arm. Have you watched any of him this year? Cal's,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I think, a little bumpier. There were some kind of
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: views on ACC Sleeper coming into the season. Definitely don't
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: feel like that right now, the way they played early
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: on in the season.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Definitely. I haven't had a chance to watch their last
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: week game, which looks like the offense opened it up
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I'm a huge JKS guy. I said
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: he was the best quarterback returning in college football back
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: in August and got a lot of flack for that now,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: like when they lose to UCLA. To me, we had
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: this conversation two months ago. He is the best true
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: freshman quarterback prospect I've seen since Caleb Williams. I think
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: he hides over there in Berkeley. And if he was
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: on Miami or Texas, this whole conversation would be a
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: lot different, but people aren't watching Cal football. And that
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: whole insulated conversation like last year, Terrible offensive line, terrible
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: run game, yet Cal's offense was as explosive as they've
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: been in a decade. But in terms of this year,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: he's still like you turn on that tape like he's
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: still got some big time throws like they're backed up
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: on second and 10. He's ripping a whole shot to
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: the wide side of the field. And you're like, yep,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: that dude, that dude's different. He's special. I think we'll
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: see what happens with Cal. I'm not expecting Cal to
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: win the ACC. I think this game up this weekend
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: is huge. Clemson on the road in Berkeley on a
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Friday night. That could be a sneaky big one. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: regardless of what happens, there's enough elite play from JKS
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: that I think he's going to be one of the
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: most sought-after quarterbacks, either for Cal to retain him or
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: some other school going in the portal to get him.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: How much better is Miami than all these other teams
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: in the ACC?
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: As big of a gap– been covering the conference closely
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: for three years now it's as big of a gap
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: from team one to team two as i've seen in
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: three years and miami's been you know rolling for a
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: couple years now yeah it's they're loaded i know they
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: had some some injuries on uh on friday night when
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: they when they played but they're loaded mensa looks like
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: he hasn't missed a beat i love how they're using
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: malachi tony the thing that i notice is last year
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: with tony it was a lot of like hey line
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: up in the slot and we're going to scheme about
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: three screens to you a game, and then a half
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: dozen deep ball shots down the field. That was last
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: year's game plan. This year, it feels like the whole
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: route tree is open to him. They'll move him slot, outside,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: move him all around. He's a baller, and yeah, it
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: feels like it's a race for the number two spot
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: in the ACC.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: You're kind of like Cal or Stanford. You're Southern California.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: That's where you live, yet all your teams are on
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the Eastern Seaboard. So it's like, you know what? You've
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: got some long travel weeks. I mean, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Clemson.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Bookville lunchtime Thursday Delta flight, wherever East Coast
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going. That's my fall. You go Thursday, like, noon,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: we're heading to the East Coast, and then I fly back, like,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: 6 a.m. Sunday morning. We're hoping to get a Cal-Stanford
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: home game here in the coming weeks.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: You would love for them to kind of start establishing
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: one of those two programs or really– off and you
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: do like three or four games at cal or at
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: stanford a year wouldn't you.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: It'd be so clutch and now we're getting into it
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: but like stanford's got the best hotel of all the
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: acc teams so anytime you get a stanford game you
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: get the nice accommodations it's good it's good living I.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Saw you on social media doing the booth reviews of
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: the best booths. Some of those stadiums are a little older,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: a little smaller.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: They are. I was getting flack this week. The one
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: coming out this week is Bank of America Stadium where
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: the Panthers play, which is where I called West Virginia
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: last week, which isn't technically a college booth. NFL booths
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: are objectively nicer. My producer was like, you can't put
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: it on the list. It's not true, but Bank of
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: America Stadium will make the cut in some capacity this week.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: That was a big win for Rich Rod. They kind
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: of kicked their ass, didn't they?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: That was huge. That was huge. It kind of feels
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: like Rich Rod's in– like last year they turned over
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: 70 guys in the program year one. Jesus. And they did– no,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: get this, John. They did the same thing in year two,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: 70 new guys in year two. So like it has
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: like year one energy kind of and– Speaking of John
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Mateers and Oklahoma's offense, his backup last year, Michael Hawkins Jr.,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: is Rich Rod's guy this year. And, I mean, classic
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Rich Rod. He's running the quarterback like, what, 20 times
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: in the game and throwing for three, four touchdowns. Yeah,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: big win for the Mountaineers.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you coming on. I know you're busy
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: studying tape, getting ready for a baby. Congratulations to you
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: and your wife.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks, dude. That's incredible news. I'm very proud. We timed
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: it up well. The due date's the week after the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Super Bowl. So in true football fashion, hopefully baby comes
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: out healthy and then you get the Masters the next
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: month and we'll be good to go.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: My baby was born Thursday, and we were home to
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: watch Josh Allen play the Denver Broncos by 1 o'clock Saturday.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: He knew.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: He was a born football guy. So tell everyone where
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: they can see you this week, what time. You have
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: the night game, afternoon game?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I have a rare day game this week. We have
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: a Boston, Virginia tech at Boston college, James Franklin squads rolling.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: It's at noon on the ACC network. And then, yeah,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: I'm active on all, all the social platforms and Instagram,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Tik TOK, and then YouTube. I got a breakdown show.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: So if you're watching this here, go, go check it out.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you, bro. And congrats on all your success
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: and keep killing it and get right. Buckley. Enjoy your
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: free time. Now get, get, have some date nights with
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: your wife. Just enjoy yourself. Cause life is about to
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: change my friend.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I'll enjoy these last few months. And no,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: thanks for having me on, man. I'm a longtime listener
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: of you and Colin's stuff and first time guest. So
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: good to be here. Thanks, bro. The Volume.