Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Parenting Hack: Why Experience Beats a Lecture Every Time | Ep. 146

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Parenting Hack: Why Experience Beats a Lecture Every Time | Ep. 146 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  When it comes to guiding our kids, do you ever feel like you're always cast as the bad guy?
• 0:15
  Or do you wonder if there's a way to encourage better choices without all the constant battles?
• 0:23
  Today on the Parenting Podcast, we're exploring how consequences can step in as the real teachers It's helping kids learn to experience, not punishment.
• 0:38
  I'm Cheryl Lang, and together we'll look at how thoughtful consequences can empower kids of all ages to build essential life skills through cause and effect without the need for constant correction or the drama.
• 0:57
  Ready to let life lessons do some of the work?
• 1:01
  Let's dive in.
• 1:02
  Let's
• 1:11
  Cheryl: Good afternoon, you all.
• 1:13
  Cheryl: Hello.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: And Michelle Johnson, we are so glad to have you back in here today.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: I'm glad to be back.
• 1:19
  Cheryl: This is great.
• 1:19
  Cheryl: Yeah, I
• 1:19
  Danae: haven't seen you for a while.
• 1:21
  Danae: Yeah.
• 1:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:22
  Danae: You doing
• 1:22
  Cheryl: well?
• 1:22
  Danae: Yeah, everything's going great.
• 1:25
  Danae: Excellent.
• 1:25
  Christie: Except for the things that aren't.
• 1:26
  Cheryl: Hey, that's the truth.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: That's another
• 1:31
  Christie: discussion.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: That's a whole life.
• 1:33
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 1:35
  Cheryl: Alright, so, I find it so much fun when kids are learning to, read and write and the funny thing.
• 1:43
  Cheryl: Yeah, all the little weird stuff that they say and think, yeah.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: And for example, so my grandchildren are visiting me right now and it's really cute because we have a Reader, we have one who's learning to read, and then a two year old.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:57
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:57
  Cheryl: So I wanted to show you this.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: So look at this picture.
• 2:00
  Cheryl: It has to do with what we're going to talk about today.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: So they were writing things with chalk out on the driveway.
• 2:07
  Cheryl: And so this is what one of them wrote.
• 2:11
  Cheryl: The five year old.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: I'm trying to understand.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: Can you spell it?
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Cause we can't see podcast.
• 2:16
  Cheryl: Like cousin.
• 2:18
  Danae: Spell it.
• 2:18
  Christie: K O.
• 2:19
  Christie: Backward S.
• 2:20
  Christie: Backward S.
• 2:20
  Christie: Backward S.
• 2:21
  Christie: U, K, I, backward S.
• 2:25
  Christie: I, I don't know.
• 2:27
  Christie: Consequence.
• 2:27
  Laughter: Oh.
• 2:29
  Danae: Okay.
• 2:30
  Danae: That's an attempt.
• 2:31
  Danae: That's a great attempt at consequence.
• 2:33
  Danae: Has she heard this a lot?
• 2:35
  Christie: Yes.
• 2:36
  Christie: She sounds fairly familiar with the term.
• 2:39
  Cheryl: So I have been laughing at that and I thought, wow, that's a good thing.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: We'll try to spell it correctly.
• 2:46
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:46
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:47
  Cheryl: But how about if we talk about consequences?
• 2:50
  Cheryl: As a tool for us as parents, what to do with them.
• 2:54
  Cheryl: Let me ask you, what are your journeys?
• 2:58
  Cheryl: Either in your childhood or in your parenting, your journey with consequences.
• 3:04
  Christie: Well, I had a creative approach to consequences growing up.
• 3:07
  Christie: I would weigh the consequences and the action I wanted to do and decide if it was worth it or not.
• 3:15
  Christie: I remember in high school, a friend of mine and I, we pull into the parking lot and just neither of us really wanted to go in that school that day.
• 3:22
  Christie: And I said, what is the consequence for not going?
• 3:25
  Christie: And she said, well, I think it's an hour of detention for every hour of class you miss.
• 3:28
  Christie: And I was like, so we could come early for the next day.
• 3:30
  Christie: Six days.
• 3:31
  Christie: And skipped a day.
• 3:33
  Christie: Wow.
• 3:34
  Christie: And we both decided that was a fair, fair trade out.
• 3:37
  Christie: So yeah, that didn't work.
• 3:39
  Christie: They didn't have a good dial in on what
• 3:42
  Ellen: worked with me.
• 3:42
  Ellen: Well, I was doing the same thing.
• 3:44
  Ellen: I was in the process, it was in high school, of hopping the fence.
• 3:47
  Ellen: And I'm like halfway over.
• 3:50
  Ellen: Get out of school?
• 3:51
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:51
  Ellen: Oh, wow.
• 3:52
  Ellen: To leave school because they fenced us in.
• 3:53
  Ellen: Oh, no.
• 3:54
  Ellen: And so, um, the guy he's the, you know, the narc guy that worked on the campus.
• 3:59
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 4:00
  Ellen: Wait, wait, wait.
• 4:00
  Ellen: A narc?
• 4:01
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:01
  Ellen: He was a narcotics officer.
• 4:03
  Ellen: Wow.
• 4:03
  Ellen: He worked on our camp.
• 4:04
  Ellen: This is California narcotics.
• 4:05
  Ellen: yeah, yeah.
• 4:05
  Ellen: In the 60s.
• 4:07
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:07
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:08
  Ellen: I can tell you other stories you wouldn't believe.
• 4:09
  Ellen: But anyways, and he knew who I was.
• 4:11
  Ellen: And so he goes, um, not because of drugs.
• 4:16
  Ellen: To clarify.
• 4:18
  Ellen: Girls.
• 4:19
  Ellen: He was very adorable.
• 4:20
  Ellen: He was like 23, 24, really cute.
• 4:24
  Ellen: So everybody's like, hi, Mr.
• 4:26
  Ellen: Dino.
• 4:27
  Ellen: So anyway, so I'm halfway getting over.
• 4:30
  Ellen: And he goes, you know, Ellen, once you go to that other side, it's a three day suspension.
• 4:35
  Ellen: So you may want to think about the consequences.
• 4:38
  Ellen: So I'm like halfway over and I said, okay, well I'll see you in a couple days.
• 4:44
  Danae: You guys are rebels.
• 4:48
  Danae: My whole goal in life was to avoid any kind of consequence.
• 4:50
  Danae: Yeah.
• 4:51
  Danae: Same
• 4:51
  Cheryl: with me.
• 4:51
  Danae: Michelle and I married, I, I married a
• 4:54
  Cheryl: man why would I do that and get in trouble?
• 4:56
  Cheryl: And I like,'cause it's, I know,'cause I've said I.
• 4:59
  Cheryl: I was a good kid, but it wasn't because I had this golden heart because I
• 5:04
  Danae: hated
• 5:04
  Cheryl: consequences.
• 5:05
  Cheryl: Oh,
• 5:05
  Danae: yeah, I did not want to be in trouble.
• 5:07
  Danae: No, like, yeah, no attention on me at all.
• 5:10
  Danae: I'm just gonna fly under the radar.
• 5:12
  Danae: Yep.
• 5:12
  Danae: Yeah, I'm gonna be the good kid.
• 5:14
  Christie: I now am a little bit more of a rule follower.
• 5:17
  Christie: Actually, I'm a pretty big rule follower now.
• 5:20
  Christie: But my thing is in the moment I'm always worried about what I want to do right now, especially when I was younger.
• 5:27
  Christie: I was like, I don't want to do this right now.
• 5:30
  Christie: I want to do that right now.
• 5:31
  Christie: It was worth it for me to hop the fence.
• 5:33
  Christie: All I did
• 5:34
  Ellen: was go home and watch TV.
• 5:35
  Ellen: That was pretty wild.
• 5:37
  Ellen: I didn't feel like going to school, so I had to go home.
• 5:41
  Christie: My friend and I drove to Dallas that day, which is three and a half hours from here.
• 5:46
  Christie: But we had to be back before school let out so it looked like very fast and so we had to turn around and come We just didn't think that
• 5:54
  Cheryl: is so funny.
• 5:55
  Ellen: I feel like we're true
• 5:56
  Cheryl: confessions
• 5:59
  Ellen: Well, you know like I was I mean I had the world word Consequences drilled into my brain as a kid because that was you know, cuz I was always the kid going how hot is the stove?
• 6:09
  Ellen: well, if you touch it the consequences would be so I would touch it anyways, because I I I was one of those people and still am.
• 6:16
  Ellen: I have to find the consequences out for myself.
• 6:19
  Ellen: Is that really true?
• 6:20
  Ellen: Is it really going to burn me?
• 6:21
  Ellen: Is it really going to be that bad?
• 6:23
  Christie: Right.
• 6:24
  Christie: So
• 6:24
  Ellen: that's, you know, some, some people are, were just made that way.
• 6:28
  Ellen: We don't take no for an answer.
• 6:29
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:30
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: So what about your experiences?
• 6:34
  Cheryl: Did you use consequences in your parenting?
• 6:37
  Cheryl: You know, you're still in active years, Michelle, but what about y'all did you use consequences or is that not part of your tool bag?
• 6:44
  Christie: Well, I used them, but not well, looking back, this was definitely my weakest area of parenting.
• 6:53
  Christie: Oh, really?
• 6:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Christie: I, I just, I like, I guess that nature, that part of my nature that was in the moment.
• 7:00
  Christie: Carried into my parenting.
• 7:01
  Christie: I had, I was still so immature in that area that it was, you know, easy for me to overreact to my kids if, you know, I really didn't like what they were doing.
• 7:10
  Christie: It was, you know, you're grounded for the rest of your life, you know, overreaction or just not wanting to upset them or be on their bad side.
• 7:20
  Christie: I would just give in or so.
• 7:22
  Christie: How much they begged.
• 7:22
  Christie: Yes, yeah.
• 7:24
  Christie: I was not always consistent, I guess I should say.
• 7:27
  Cheryl: Oh, consistent.
• 7:28
  Cheryl: Oh, I didn't know we were going to talk about that.
• 7:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:31
  Cheryl: Well, I liked it.
• 7:32
  Cheryl: And like I said, with my family visiting me, I see consequences around a lot and watching it and I'm going, oh.
• 7:42
  Cheryl: That was the problem.
• 7:43
  Cheryl: It was the consistency.
• 7:44
  Cheryl: Yeah, I wish I had like you said we'll talk about it But I wish I had been more consistent and instead of reacting And I think that's the
• 7:55
  Ellen: hardest thing in all of parenting that could be a whole episode It's just being consistent So I don't think it helps if we're consistent because you just get really tired after a while or
• 8:04
  Christie: whatever.
• 8:04
  Christie: There's a million other things going on, at any given point.
• 8:07
  Christie: And, so, you're, it's not just that one thing you're to pay attention to
• 8:11
  Cheryl: Where our resident active parent you with your kids?
• 8:17
  Cheryl: are you, you're big on consequences or not or?
• 8:20
  Danae: Oh yeah, when I hear Christie talk about her weakest, you know, area, drag Definitely identify with that.
• 8:26
  Danae: I think that I'm, I am a work in progress.
• 8:29
  Mm-Hmm.
• 8:29
  really.
• 8:29
  So
• 8:30
  Danae: I see myself where I've, I've grown and I see that I have a lot to learn still.
• 8:35
  Danae: Mm-Hmm.
• 8:35
  Danae: that I'm still growing in, that I, I'm recognizing more and more what things I need to do better, and I'm working towards that.
• 8:42
  Danae: But it is, it's hard to be consistent.
• 8:44
  Danae: Mm-Hmm.
• 8:45
  Danae: for myself, and I'm, I'm learning that I'm kind of, um.
• 8:49
  Danae: I don't even realize at times that I need to give a consequence, you know, because it just happens and I just kind of run with it.
• 8:56
  Danae: I mean, the things that are really big, you know, obvious, I can, you know, point a consequence to that.
• 9:01
  Danae: But, um, some things I just, I realize I'm letting go and I, I'm maybe being passive, I guess is the right word.
• 9:08
  Danae: So.
• 9:08
  Danae: Wow.
• 9:09
  Christie: Well.
• 9:09
  Christie: Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 9:10
  Christie: Some days it just feels a little bit like crisis management in parents.
• 9:14
  Christie: That's good.
• 9:14
  Christie: Where you're just trying to keep the plates spinning.
• 9:16
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Christie: It can be easy to be overwhelmed with all of it.
• 9:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:19
  Christie: It's true.
• 9:19
  Cheryl: Of course.
• 9:20
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: And Michelle said something like, I don't know when I should have a consequence or not.
• 9:25
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 9:25
  Cheryl: And so parents are always giving me questions.
• 9:28
  Cheryl: And so let me just read a few of these questions, exactly what we're all saying here.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: They're questions.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: These are just a variety of them.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: Uh, first one says, you all are always talking about consequences.
• 9:39
  Cheryl: I want to try and use them, but I can't figure out how to match consequences and behavior.
• 9:44
  Cheryl: How many times can you clean the bathroom?
• 9:47
  Cheryl: She says, ah, ha, ha.
• 9:48
  Cheryl: You know, all right, now you have to go clean the bathroom again.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:53
  Cheryl: All right.
• 9:53
  Cheryl: Uh, can you give some examples of how to apply consequences to different children at different times and different ages?
• 10:01
  Cheryl: All right.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: I wish there were a book written on that.
• 10:04
  And
• 10:04
  Cheryl: then I'm trying to use consequences regularly, but I find myself upset and not calm and in end up not doing it do you havE any suggestions?
• 10:14
  Cheryl: And how do I stay more consistent?.
• 10:22
  Cheryl: So, I, how about if we start out trying to define what is a consequence?
• 10:28
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 10:28
  Cheryl: Like, for example, let's think about what's the difference between consequences and consequences.
• 10:32
  Cheryl: and punishment Mm
• 10:34
  Ellen: hmm.
• 10:35
  Cheryl: Throw that
• 10:35
  Ellen: out there.
• 10:36
  Ellen: But when you're a kid, it feels the same.
• 10:38
  Ellen: Oh, that's true.
• 10:39
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 10:39
  Ellen: True.
• 10:40
  Christie: Well, and it, it's, it's hard in the moment to, it, it takes some, some preliminary thought, I feel like, to even sort that out.
• 10:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:50
  Christie: That's good.
• 10:50
  Christie: Because cut, punishment versus consequence, I mean, in the moment, I'm just, I'm just I just, I remember thinking, like, I need to inflict something painful on this child.
• 11:00
  Christie: That's
• 11:00
  Ellen: right.
• 11:02
  Ellen: Well, yeah, you might go, Oh, I'm fed up.
• 11:04
  Ellen: I'm just taking all the Play Doh and putting it away.
• 11:06
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 11:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Ellen: You're not thinking through, well, now everybody's deprived of the Play Doh.
• 11:10
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:10
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 11:10
  Ellen: I mean, I think
• 11:11
  Christie: consequences are a, kind of a natural, uh, cause and effect for whatever the, the offense is.
• 11:20
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 11:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: So, uh, natural, like, for example, You leave your bike out.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Cheryl: Range, you have a rusty back.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:30
  Cheryl: See, that's cause and effect.
• 11:31
  Cheryl: I like that.
• 11:31
  Cheryl: Maybe that's the difference between punitive is cause and effect and they're related where punitive would be you're grounded.
• 11:41
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 11:42
  Cheryl: And it's just, that's a punishment because you were disrespectful, whatever I'm saying.
• 11:48
  Cheryl: It's not directly related.
• 11:49
  Cheryl: It's not Yeah.
• 11:50
  Ellen: We have to be careful because sometimes the Consequences is not yet the punishment.
• 11:57
  Ellen: It's the thought of it getting there.
• 11:59
  Ellen: Okay, like what?
• 12:00
  Ellen: What do you mean?
• 12:00
  Ellen: Okay, if you say, um, I'm putting those brownies out on the table.
• 12:05
  Ellen: No one's allowed to go get one until I say so.
• 12:09
  Ellen: So you've laid it down.
• 12:10
  Ellen: We We put on our children and they have to understand that it's not that quick.
• 12:16
  Ellen: You, I'm mad at you, get out of my face kind of thing.
• 12:19
  Ellen: It's, it's a thought through, you know, result for what you've done that you weren't supposed to do.
• 12:25
  Ellen: And the consequences you will not get any brownies at all if you take them ahead of time.
• 12:30
  Ellen: Okay.
• 12:30
  Ellen: And
• 12:31
  Cheryl: what, cause I was looking up some to think about it and they said they're natural and logical.
• 12:37
  Cheryl: And the psychologists or parenting gurus are talking about it.
• 12:41
  Cheryl: And they're saying natural means.
• 12:43
  Cheryl: Parents don't even need to be involved.
• 12:45
  Cheryl: Like, leaving your bike out.
• 12:46
  Cheryl: Your bike gets stolen, your bike gets rusty.
• 12:49
  Cheryl: That's a natural consequence.
• 12:50
  Cheryl: But we want to be there to allow it to happen for the learning of the lesson, okay?
• 12:56
  Cheryl: And then a logical consequence would be because you ate the brownies, when I ask you not to, this is linked to you lose the right to have more brownies.
• 13:05
  Cheryl: Rather than you have to go sit in your room for an hour.
• 13:08
  Cheryl: That would be a punishment.
• 13:09
  Christie: Does that make sense?
• 13:10
  Cheryl: That they're, cause and effect being linked, we're talking about a consequence and it's a consequence.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:17
  Cheryl: We're not, our goal is not punitive.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: The goal of a consequence is to help train and teach.
• 13:22
  Cheryl: That's really
• 13:22
  Danae: good.
• 13:23
  Danae: That's the word is an intentional teaching tool.
• 13:26
  Danae: That's really good.
• 13:27
  Danae: That you're using this opportunity to help the child learn from the situation to better them for the future.
• 13:33
  Danae: Right.
• 13:34
  Danae: That's excellent.
• 13:34
  Danae: Because you're
• 13:35
  Christie: equipping them for their adult life.
• 13:36
  Christie: If you don't go to work, you don't get paid.
• 13:39
  Christie: If you don't pay your electric bill, the lights get shut off.
• 13:42
  Christie: It's it's training them.
• 13:44
  Christie: Okay,
• 13:44
  Cheryl: what are other benefits like this?
• 13:47
  Cheryl: What you just described, this is that releasing process.
• 13:50
  I
• 13:50
  Cheryl: don't want my children as adults not to have a strong cause and effect.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: You know, won't mention anyone who I talked about speeding.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: But I was so glad when my kids chose to violate But the speeding law, I didn't have to give a consequence.
• 14:08
  Cheryl: Someone else.
• 14:09
  Cheryl: It's cause and effect.
• 14:10
  Cheryl: You speed, you get the ticket.
• 14:12
  Cheryl: And someone else is, and then there's a punitive aspect to it.
• 14:16
  Cheryl: But that is really closely linked,
• 14:18
  Ellen: yeah.
• 14:19
  Cheryl: And so, um, I don't speed! I just don't like the consequence.
• 14:23
  Cheryl: I don't want that, I don't want to cause that result.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 14:28
  Ellen: Well, I, but I think that starts really young.
• 14:31
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 14:31
  Ellen: That's what we're, what we're training in the beginning is from the very beginning we're starting to say, well, okay, hon, I told you this, if you do this, this is what's going to happen, you know, and some of that's a natural consequence.
• 14:44
  Ellen: Yes.
• 14:45
  Ellen: Well, you know, sometimes I'm probably one of the first things you.
• 14:48
  Ellen: Teach your little kids or, you know, don't touch the stove.
• 14:51
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Ellen: And so sometimes if the stove on the side is warm, you can put their hand up near it and they can feel the warmth of the stove so that they understand, oh, that really is warm.
• 15:00
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 15:01
  Ellen: You know.
• 15:01
  Ellen: And I think
• 15:01
  Christie: in doing that, I mean, talking about the benefits, one of those is calculated decision making, evaluation, and determining You know, the course of action in that moment of, and, you know, back to weighing the odds, like you're saying with your kids that aren't necessarily rule followers, they're still making a decision.
• 15:23
  Christie: They've chosen that that's not a big enough consequence.
• 15:25
  Christie: I'm going to climb
• 15:26
  Danae: the fifth.
• 15:26
  Danae: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Danae: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Danae: Yeah.
• 15:28
  Danae: I was just going to say it, it just makes me think like there's phases, so you start off really young and you're teaching them safety.
• 15:35
  Danae: I mean, because there's a consequence here if, if you don't learn to listen to what I have to say, you could get really, really hurt, like getting burnt, um, or crossing the street.
• 15:45
  Danae: You can't cross the street, you know, um, those kinds of things.
• 15:48
  Danae: And then it progresses into teaching them how to make thoughtful choices,
• 15:53
  Ellen: um, you know.
• 15:53
  Ellen: And emotional safety.
• 15:54
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 15:55
  Ellen: Because that's what you're doing when you're saying, okay, this is It's a consequence if you do this.
• 15:59
  Christie: And a responsibility for others affected when they realize my consequence may affect everyone else, too.
• 16:06
  Christie: I mean, None of us got brownies because I went in and got that brownie early
• 16:10
  Ellen: and Or, my Bit
• 16:12
  Christie: each one.
• 16:14
  Ellen: I had a kid that used to
• 16:15
  Christie: do that.
• 16:16
  Christie: And now he claimed them all.
• 16:18
  Christie: Yeah, that's what he'd do.
• 16:19
  Christie: He'd go in and bite
• 16:20
  Ellen: every single thing and then nobody
• 16:22
  Cheryl: wanted them.
• 16:22
  Cheryl: Oh, I had one, and they would take a bite out of the biggest.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 16:26
  Cheryl: So nobody would want the biggest.
• 16:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: So clever.
• 16:29
  Cheryl: But what you were just saying, Christy, um, we, to learn that my conduct sometimes doesn't just affect me, cause and result.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: Um, a really good friend of my, uh, youngest son, Jonathan, and they had plans to get together and probably spend the afternoon and maybe the night at one of our houses, but sometimes One of them would make choices, and they lost that privilege.
• 16:54
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 16:55
  Cheryl: And so that's a little more punitive, but it was a direct cause and result of what they'd done.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: And then they had to call the other one.
• 17:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:03
  Christie: Then tell them,
• 17:05
  Cheryl: Oh, by the way, you, you, You can't come over because I whatever, whatever, right.
• 17:09
  Cheryl: And that was excruciating hard.
• 17:11
  Cheryl: And then we had to have the talk about, you know, our choices don't just affect us, they affect other people.
• 17:17
  Cheryl: For example, I'm not doing what I want to do, because I'm sitting here talking with you and, you know, but just even bigger, much broader.
• 17:25
  Yeah,
• 17:25
  Cheryl: you know, what a wonderful effect on our culture and society.
• 17:31
  Cheryl: If everybody could learn my conduct can affect you, right?
• 17:36
  Cheryl: And it
• 17:36
  Ellen: does, whether you know it or not.
• 17:38
  Ellen: I mean, because we're talking about it like it's a training thing, but it's a very natural part of life.
• 17:45
  Ellen: Everything is a consequence.
• 17:46
  Ellen: Good choices, bad choice, everything is a consequence.
• 17:49
  Ellen: But
• 17:49
  Cheryl: maybe that's what we want to do is to help connect those dots.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: And the pain of that loss, we want I don't mean the pain of being burned, but the, the sting.
• 17:59
  Cheryl: Well, that helps too.
• 18:01
  Cheryl: The sting that we want to kind of connect those dots more when they're younger.
• 18:06
  Cheryl: But what a wonderful thing to connect the dots for your children.
• 18:09
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:09
  Cheryl: So that they can grow up.
• 18:11
  Cheryl: Well,
• 18:11
  Ellen: every day as an adult, we have consequences.
• 18:13
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Ellen: You
• 18:14
  Christie: know.
• 18:14
  Christie: Well, that's, I think, been what's helped me get better at using consequences as my kids got older is using natural consequences because it takes me out of the equation.
• 18:25
  Christie: I don't have to be the bad guy.
• 18:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:27
  Christie: As many times, I mean, I've become a big fan of natural consequences because I don't like disappointing my kids.
• 18:33
  Christie: I don't like making them feel discomfort so I can just make it natural that I'm not part of the equation.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: And something I've heard from you, Christine, I love it.
• 18:43
  Cheryl: I've used it saying, Oh, wow.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: Oh, that sounds hard.
• 18:48
  Christie: Yeah, well, I learned that from our pediatrician early on.
• 18:50
  Christie: He said, I'm sorry and good luck.
• 18:52
  Christie: We're two good phrases.
• 18:55
  Christie: Because, you know, if, if.
• 18:56
  Christie: They're in a situation that they find themselves in because of their actions.
• 19:00
  Christie: You can say, I'm so sorry.
• 19:02
  Christie: And that's about all you have to say because they're already suffering enough.
• 19:06
  Christie: You don't need to be involved in it.
• 19:08
  Christie: I had a funny experience this week.
• 19:10
  Christie: My youngest daughter is 18 and she still lives at home and she, uh, It's supposed to clean the bathroom every week because I have guests coming did not clean the bathroom And so i'm in the position of having to clean it.
• 19:21
  Christie: So I had to clean I told her hey, this is a freebie But next time i'm going to charge you 10 bucks while being my daughter.
• 19:27
  Christie: She weighed the option Well, do you want a job I could just pay you ten dollars every week So yeah, sometimes benefits of consequences come back at you as
• 19:39
  Ellen: the
• 19:39
  Christie: mom.
• 19:39
  Christie: Well, you have to find the ones that fit.
• 19:41
  Ellen: Right.
• 19:41
  Ellen: You know, because my parents would always give me consequences that I didn't care about.
• 19:45
  Ellen: So I would weigh, I was worth doing that because, well, they're going to yell at me, that's not a big deal.
• 19:50
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:51
  Ellen: You know, or I might get grounded for a day, but I'll just go out my window.
• 19:54
  Ellen: So, you know.
• 19:56
  Cheryl: Can you think, Alan, of a time where you.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: I actually evaluated connecting the cause and effect of a consequence, and it turned you back as a child.
• 20:09
  Cheryl: That's a good question.
• 20:10
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 20:11
  Ellen: I think some of that's personality driven.
• 20:14
  Ellen: And so my personality, it had to come from me.
• 20:18
  Ellen: It couldn't come from external circumstances, whereas my sister was more compliant Now all my teachers loved me because I was not compliant and They saw it as positive, but you know as a parent it wasn't always but um, I don't remember Necessarily because my parents had a really bad habit of I could talk them out of my consequences.
• 20:42
  Cheryl: Your parents?!?
• 20:43
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Ellen: Trust me.
• 20:45
  Ellen: My dad always said, are you going to be a lawyer when you grow up?
• 20:48
  Ellen: Because I would come in with a presented argument as to why I shouldn't have to have those consequences.
• 20:54
  Ellen: And this is what it's going to mean to everyone.
• 20:56
  Ellen: If I get that consequence.
• 20:58
  Ellen: Wow.
• 20:58
  Ellen: So you were spicy.
• 21:00
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Ellen: So eventually, I mean, I learned the art of wearing people down very easily.
• 21:04
  Ellen: That's not necessarily a good thing.
• 21:06
  Ellen: It can be, but you know, that was Just sort of with my parents, I think they just got tired and just do whatever you want to do.
• 21:13
  Ellen: Well, this
• 21:13
  Christie: is the big challenge.
• 21:15
  Christie: I feel like if you have more than one child in your household is finding the consequences that were for each kid.
• 21:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:22
  Christie: Well, some kids just aren't.
• 21:24
  Christie: Yes.
• 21:24
  Christie: Why?
• 21:25
  Christie: What works with
• 21:25
  Ellen: one might not work with the other.
• 21:27
  Ellen: You could take all my money from me.
• 21:28
  Ellen: I did not care and care about money.
• 21:31
  Ellen: But if I was going to do something with a friend, then I see I be really, you know, Restricting your freedom.
• 21:37
  Ellen: Yes.
• 21:37
  Ellen: My freedom.
• 21:38
  Ellen: I couldn't just go, come and go.
• 21:39
  Ellen: I had to, you know.
• 21:40
  Ellen: That makes sense.
• 21:40
  Ellen: So, that.
• 21:41
  Danae: Oh, I was just thinking you, you mentioned personalities, Christy, and I was thinking the same thing.
• 21:46
  Danae: With one of my kids, I just have to look at him funny and, you know, I, I really don't have to do much at all and they've learned their lesson and that was very much how I was.
• 21:55
  Danae: Just don't even look at me.
• 21:58
  Laughter: Yeah.
• 21:58
  Danae: Um, but you know, other ones, like you were saying, exactly, yes, they're going to have more of a a more determined side that they have.
• 22:07
  Danae: And so it really is learning how to, um, figure out what works for each one.
• 22:13
  Danae: Yeah.
• 22:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Cheryl: So, we're out of time.
• 22:18
  Danae: Always.
• 22:19
  Danae: That was quick.
• 22:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: All right.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: So, how about if we come back in next time and pick up this conversation and we talk about these hard things we're talking about.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: Because I can imagine.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: What we've done is gone, wow, consequences are great, but they're really hard to use.
• 22:35
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: Oh, so let's come back.
• 22:39
  Cheryl: You want to?
• 22:39
  Cheryl: Yeah, that sounds good.
• 22:40
  Cheryl: Thank you.
• 22:41
  Cheryl: Michelle, thank you for being here.
• 22:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Cheryl: I hope you can come back.
• 22:43
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 22:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:44
  Cheryl: I'd love it.
• 22:45
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 22:57
  Speaker: Thanks for joining us on the Parenting Podcast as we shift correction into connection.
• 23:04
  Speaker: Today we explore the power of letting consequences do the teaching.
• 23:09
  Speaker: Rather than stepping in to correct every moment, it's about helping our kids to see the natural outcomes of their choices, guiding them towards wisdom and responsibility.
• 23:22
  Speaker: What struck me most was the idea that life lessons often speak louder than we ever could.
• 23:31
  Speaker: So maybe this week, choose one area where you step back and let a natural outcome show your child the way.
• 23:39
  Speaker: It's about teaching through experience, not just correction.
• 23:44
  Speaker: And, as always, we're here for you.
• 23:47
  Speaker: Share your experiences, reach out with a question on all social media platforms, or at contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 23:56
  Speaker: com.
• 23:58
  Speaker: You're building life skills day by day.
• 24:02
  Speaker: Keep up the incredible work.