Latest / Alternative Exit / Alternative Exit #72 | Private Equity Where the Exit Is to Employees. Brittany Brown, CoRise Capital

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Alternative Exit #72 | Private Equity Where the Exit Is to Employees. Brittany Brown, CoRise Capital · Alternative Exit

• Andy Farquharson: Hello everybody and welcome back to the Alternative Exit, brought to you by Aveta Monday and I'm Andy Farquison. So earlier this year, Britney Brown walked away from a career in corporate finance, venture capital, and private equity to work full-time on one idea. And that is a fund whose whole mission is to create employee owners, which we love here on the alternative exit. So Britney is the managing partner and co-founder of Co-Rise Capital, based in Cedar Rapids in Iowa. So Co-Rise, they buy a hundred percent of strong businesses, help it to grow and professionalize, and in three to five years, they then exit by making it a hundred percent ESOP company. So Brittany, welcome to the alternative exit. Brittany Brown: Great, thanks for having me. Andy Farquharson: Awesome. So I'd I'd love it if you could give us just a a little introduction into Co Rise and then I'd love to go a little bit sort of take it back a little bit further as to sort of how you got into this space. Brittany Brown: Yeah. So if I had to kind of give you a sentence, it would be ASOPs creating Aesops. so the idea behind Co-Rize was from one of my partners, Drew Larson, and he Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Brittany Brown: is an attorney in the ESOP space and has been for quite some time. He recognized that there was a large amount of capital available in the ESOP ecosystem. He also then recognized we've got sort of a big transition of wealth coming. with businesses trans translating hands and moving to new owners. And so he said, Well, what better way to help further employee ownership than to use the resources we have inside the community to expand the community? And so Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Brittany Brown: that's where the idea came from. my second partner, Eric Engelman, I used to work for in the venture capital space, as you mentioned, and so he came and tapped me on the shoulder when I was in my private equity role and said, hey, we have an idea. and it is to create more employee owners. So I started digging into employee ownership and it all sort of kind of started running from there. Once I got comfortable with it, I said, all right, great, let's do this and we moved forward. Andy Farquharson: Okay, very cool. All right, so ESOPs buying we'll we'll come back into a little bit of the model about how you get the the the get sort of the the D L Ps and how you fund it, how you structure deals, all that fun stuff. But beforehand, like it takes a lot. I don't know, I'm presuming it takes a lot for someone to leave that world of corporate finance when you're in VC and PE to go and apply those skills in a very, very different framework around like eSOP, like converting companies to eSops. I mean what initially brought you and interested you about this transition. Brittany Brown: Yeah, so over the course of my career, the part that I really enjoyed and really found value in was being able to partner with those owners and those people inside the companies to execute on strategy and come up with ways to make the company better. So I loved that part of the work. I saw the end game and I didn't always feel great about sort of the concentration of wealth that came at the end of a transaction. And I was at a great firm. They were very fair. They were not sort of you know, out to get anyone. So I I got a great introduction, but I still always felt like there was this little piece in me that was like, there's gotta be a little bit better way to do this. and it sort of aligned better with who I was as a person outside of work to, you know, be finding a little bit more equitable way to do that. And so when Eric came and talked to me about it, I did my investigation and then you know, I went home and I talked to my husband and He was incredibly supportive and he said, Yeah, let's give this a try. you Andy Farquharson: Some Brittany Brown: know, see what we can see what we can do and go for it. So it was kind of a combination of personal desires and then having that support at home that really pushed me into it and said, Yep, let's just give this a try and see what happens. Andy Farquharson: Okay, very cool. Like and in terms of in terms of the work, I mean, how d do you see this as any different than what you've been doing? Brittany Brown: The the work itself, I really didn't, right? So when you think about a traditional private equity fund, you're gonna go out, you're gonna raise money, you're going to source portfolio companies, you're gonna help them grow, and then you're gonna find them an exit. This is the same, except that we have alignment across investors, the portfolio companies, employees, everyone, in that our whole goal is to create employee owners and to build companies that can last. and can be in communities for a long time. And so that Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Brittany Brown: patience and that longevity is the real big difference. But you know, a lot of the methods to help a company grow, et cetera, are going to be the same, except the ones that are pretty destructive, right? So when I think about the businesses that we're going to go in and acquire, they're stable, they're profitable, they're great businesses. They just probably need a little bit of capital or they need to make some improvements in the finance area or maybe in some processes. So we'll come in and help them do that. get them a great stable base to jump off from. Andy Farquharson: Mm. Brittany Brown: And that's when we'll flip them to ESOP so that all of those employees that are in that company can get advantage that growth curve in their employee ownership accounts. So very much the same, but I get to have some better outcomes and build some, you know, lasting legacies along the way, hopefully. Andy Farquharson: How much of an impact does it like or are you envisaging? Like the fact that you you're taste basically getting rid of the whole sales side scenario, like in terms that needs to happen at the end of your hold period. I mean, how do you guys think about that in terms of like how you structure your funds? Brittany Brown: Yep. so a few things. we have designed our fund to be evergreen. So that's a little bit different than sort of the closed-end model where you've got, you know, five, six years to invest and then five to seven years to exit and your investors want their money back. we're certainly gonna get our investors their money back. We want to create great returns for them because they're employee owners as well. but we also want to be able to be very conscientious stewards of the business. So we're gonna ask them to be a little bit more patient. And we're gonna say, you know, this timeline could stretch out a little bit longer because we want to convert the businesses when it's right and when an ESOP can be the most successful. We've also asked them as investors because our goal here is to create more employee owners Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: from a contractual basis to say, hey, when we have a liquidation event, we're gonna take 50% of what gets distributed to us and we're gonna roll it back into the fund. And we're gonna Andy Farquharson: Okay. Brittany Brown: use that to help compound the returns and just keep that flywheel going of creating employee owners. Andy Farquharson: Wow. Okay. That's also that's not something you hear very often from Brittany Brown: Mm mm, no. Andy Farquharson: from a fund. So you're effectively like taking what's like the the general partner carry. Like is it a typical sort of like two and twenty model that you guys Yeah, okay. So Brittany Brown: It is, yep. Yep. Andy Farquharson: like twenty percent of the gains, like you're gonna be giving ten percent of way to reinvest into future growth, future acquisitions. Brittany Brown: Yeah, yeah. So yes, so the LPs and the general partnership. Yep, we're gonna be rolling that money back in. Yep. Andy Farquharson: Okay, the LPs as well. All right, ever everyone's involved in that. Awesome. Okay. Brittany Brown: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Andy Farquharson: now you've mentioned it a couple of times that it's his Aesops investing in ESOPs. So does that mean that you're only like your your investors are only ESOP companies? Brittany Brown: So I will tell you that is how our model started was only ASOPs. and as we've kind of moved along and we've gotten more and more interest as we would present to ESOP companies and boards where there are individuals who more than likely sold their company to an ESOP. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: they said, but I want to invest too. and so you know, it it's it's hard to say no when you know that that's gonna get you to your end goal and that's gonna get you to the mission. So we did have a very specific purpose in. Saying only Aesops. It was to align with that sort of long-term perspective. And then also the tax advantage there. So when you think about Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Brittany Brown: the fund being structured as a partnership, and then we would issue K1s at the end of any given year and we would pass along income. RLPs, if they were all 100% S S corporation-owned ASOPs, wouldn't mind. They don't need to pay taxes. So they don't need a cash tax distribution. When you bring in individuals, that is something that's expected. So It changes Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: the cash flow dynamics of the fund a bit, but at the end of the day, as we sort of evaluate it, it's like if it just means that behind the scenes we have to handle the cash flow a little bit differently, we can't say that that's the the strongest reason to keep people from investing and keep us from starting to get companies that are strong and ready and help them become ASOPs. Andy Farquharson: Okay. And why are these e sop companies, your investors, looking to invest in other e sops, other companies even? Like why aren't they just like maximizing their distributions to the eSOP? Brittany Brown: Yep, so it's a great question. And it's one that we get from prospective investors. and the way I like to think about it is this is just another tool in the toolbox. So when they start to accumulate cash, yes, they need to hold cash for repurchase obligations, they need to invest in their own business and sort of do some of those different things and trade-offs. But at the end of the day, what Co CoRize wants to offer is the ability for companies to have another sort of MA arm without that same level of distraction and resources inside the company. So you're able to invest the money, you would pay your management fee, which we'll talk about in a little bit, and then, you know, be a part of this diversified portfolio. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: And then additionally, the other side of that that's really important or interesting is that when you think about an ESOP and the need to sort of be accretive to the share price, this approach doesn't add any employees to their census. So While they're able to add asset value, they aren't having to add heads. So it's a different sort of return on investment model that you have to be contemplating there. It's a little bit easier to to to you know, to become a creative with an investment like this as opposed to buying an entire company that has another two hundred heads, for example. Andy Farquharson: Okay. And and is is the big challenge for that like that would dilute the eSOP for the existing for the existing company? Is that the challenge or is it just more a reporting header? Brittany Brown: not not necessarily dilutive, but you know, you do have the essence where you bring in more people and so the share price is gonna move based on the asset you buy, and then you've got to figure out, you know, how many shares are issued at the new ESOP. And so there's just some challenges around that whole concept. but this, like I say, it kind of eliminates some of those situations and allows them to just invest the dollars and add basically an asset to their balance sheet. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. I I I could imagine it could it it could solve a lot of trip like tricky conversations like at the sort of trust level when like these people go, well like wow like how how is this going how's this acquisition going to impact me rather than this being a little bit more of go no, we've got a defined investment strategy and this just sort of aligns culturally Brittany Brown: Mm-hmm. Andy Farquharson: as well as economically. Brittany Brown: Yep, yep, exactly. Andy Farquharson: Okay, really cool. you mentioned you want to talk a little bit about the management structure, like management fee structure. Brittany Brown: Yeah, so what we've done is tried to structure the fund so that it can become accretive for our investors as soon as possible. Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Brittany Brown: so you often see you know the J curve in private equity, and I'm sure that we'll have some portion of that as well. but what we've done is we've said, look, yes, there's this sort of traditional two percent management fee, but when we structure a deal and we buy a portfolio company, The dollars that we invest will one buy 100% of the equity. Now, there's going to be instances where maybe that's 80% or 90% if we've got a seller that kind of wants to, you know, retain some piece of equity, and we're open to that. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: We want to structure deals in a way that makes sense for us and the seller. But let's say it it's sort of the the standard buys 100%. Those dollars that we put in, some will buy that 100% equity. Some will come in and be structured as debt that has a current interest rate on it. And that current interest rate will be paid by the portfolio company, but it will come back into the fund to offset any management fees that our investors are paying. So it sort of eliminates the cost of the investment once we sort of get the portfolio up to scale and isn't so so much of a drag on the capital that's being put into the fund. Andy Farquharson: Okay. All right. That's super cool. Like a little bit of financial engineering that basically enables you to like apply a cost that would normally be sort of like put onto the business in any these types of transactions in terms of outperform of leverage, but then you utilize that to make to reduce your fees effectively charged to your LPs. Okay, that's awesome. I'm sure they'd be very happy to hear that. Brittany Brown: Yep. Yeah. Yeah, we hope so, right? That's the goal. Andy Farquharson: Okay, very, very cool. So when you think about well actually before we sort of move on to there, like you do hear about a lot of other private equity companies. I mean they they take their management fee, like that's for their for them managing the capital rather than for managing the business. And sometimes they do charge these the these these companies that they acquire like significant fees to to to go and sort of do their sort of value creation strategies. How do you guys think about Like, is it do you charge any additional fees of for the services that you provide? Brittany Brown: So I think what I would answer there is there's always a possibility for that. And it really comes down to once we acquire the company, we sort of want to come in, build a relationship and understand even better than you do during due diligence, right? You kind of get a glimpse of it there, but there's always more underneath once you once you get in there. What level of assistance do they need? Do they need to bring in, you know? some sort of sophisticated outside person to sort of help us get rolling. Well then there might be some additional fees that we need to charge in order to cover that. And that's really just, you know, trying to make sure that there's enough resources to spread across all of the portfolio companies in order to keep everyone moving forward in an appropriate way. So there, I guess what I would say is there's a possibility. It Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: is not probably something that we will have to do every time. It's really just something that we want to leave the door open for. to ensure that we can always get the best result for the company itself and our investors. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, cool. Well, I actually think like a little bit of that financial engineering you created in terms of sort of putting both equity and debt also like mu like put aligns your own incentives to ensure that you're not overburdening like the the the income statement with any additional costs so that there's enough there to pay the interest. So yeah, I think that that part works quite well. Brittany Brown: Yep, yep, that's that's the goal. We're trying to, you know, as best as we can, there's never gonna be the what do I wanna call it, the utopian structure that makes every single person feel like this is just the most amazing thing in the world. But we're trying to strike some balances here in order to to create as many wins as possible. Andy Farquharson: Okay, so have you found that utopian structure, Brittany? Because if you can I would love to know. Brittany Brown: No. No. I think I might I I think I I think we both might be in a different place if if we would have found that utopian structure already. So Andy Farquharson: Absolutely. so if you think about we talked a little bit about the management fee and how you like to work with these companies. I mean when you're and and you alluded to a little bit earlier that some companies are gonna need different things, but they when like There are also something like we've we've seen through all the research, there are a couple of core things which are really required to make a great employee-owned company or to make an employee-owned company a great company. what are some of the things that you guys have identified as sort of the core elements that you want to make sure are in place in that three to five year hold period before you exit towards towards an eSOL? Brittany Brown: So our sort of target size company is gonna be probably $2 million annually to around $8 million annually in EBITDA. And that number will sort of move Andy Farquharson: Okay. Brittany Brown: a little bit depending upon how much money we raise within the fund, but that'll be kind of our target. And so when I think about companies that are at that size, there are a few things that we know we want to have in place before we get ready to flip it to an ESAP. One of those is going to be finance and accounting. So oftentimes you'll see companies of that size. might have, you know, an outside CPA that comes in and does the books occasionally for them and files their taxes, but they don't necessarily have a dedicated financial analyst or controller inside of the business to help them connect the decisions they're trying to make to the numbers at the end of the day. It sort of becomes more of a like, well our profit is up, so we're in a really strong place and that's true, but could we be in a better place? So so we want to bring in some of that financial acumen and rigor into the businesses. we'll also then start once we purchase it to put an independent board in place because that's going to be a structure that's needed for an ESOP as well. Combined with we will begin to do annual valuations and financial reviews audits. Because again, that's something that gives the trustees comfort when we go to flip it to an ESOP that you know the numbers they're seeing are solid. It's not just one year of reviewed numbers. It's we're showing sort of a history of having solid books behind us. Then the next thing would be looking at sort of that leadership transition. So when we evaluate a company, we want to find someone that we can partner with. That might mean that it's the actual founder that's going to transition with us. It might mean that they have a bench right beneath them that they're ready to sort of pass the reins to and they're going to have some sort of consulting agreement maybe to help us transition that company. But we want to make sure that we've got a stable leadership team in place as well as some succession planning for that third, you know, sort of set of people to come up as well. and then finally culture. Culture's huge. you know, Aesops are just so special and that ownership mentality is important. So we need to start that education from the beginning. start sharing with the employees from the start, whether that's, you know, some sort of bonus plan, maybe that's SARS, something we'll we'll be putting something in place so that even though they are ASOP day one, we're still gonna start sharing with them right away to get them used to that concept. Andy Farquharson: Okay. do you are you putting any of those sort of employee representation on that independent board? Brittany Brown: So I think that not n maybe necessarily like, you know, the the if it's a manufacturing like a someone from the floor, but yes, I would envision someone from the leadership team will likely have a seat on the board. and Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: then we'll, you know, find our other independent directors. likely someone from the fund will always be on the board as well. and then we'll kind of build from there. Andy Farquharson: Okay. All right. So I wanna double click a little bit on that culture piece. I it's 'cause I said it's so important and it is the magic of these companies. I said you don't need you don't need to be employee owned to have amazing culture, but when you do have like when you are employee owned you've got an amazing culture, it is like it it's it's jet fuel like and and things just fly. So what are the things that that you like to see or you like to implement within these companies to really bring that culture to life? Brittany Brown: Yeah, so I would say that it starts in sort of our due diligence trips. some of this, you know, just has to sort of be there before I or the fund even gets there. So if I walk Andy Farquharson: Okay. Brittany Brown: into a company and let's say, you know, anytime I look at a company, I'm gonna want to go visit in person. I wanna walk around in the shop, I wanna, you know, I wanna see what we've got here. And if I can walk around with the owner and maybe they don't know the names of the people there or the people won't look them in the eye, or you know. Place is really a mess and nobody really seems to care. Like there's things that are kind of indicative of maybe this is more of a turnaround than a stable company we can build from. And so I do think it starts before we get there. Yes, Andy Farquharson: So that's that's not a red black. Yeah. Brittany Brown: yep. So we'll do some of our own investigation there. But then, you know, after you close, I think it's bringing in the transparency, starting to educate on the income statement, what all of that means. you know, starting to show people how their actions impact different things. One thing we're building is is a stable of people that are very experienced in the ESOP community, that have built cultures, that have been successful at them, and saying, look, we know we're going to need your help to come in and, you know, assess things, help us make the changes we need to see, those sorts of things. and that's gonna be a big piece of it too, is just going in and saying, where are they at today? How can we help them get to to the next place and and just build it from inside. Andy Farquharson: Okay. yeah, I I love seeing the that part around, like it as part of this sort of D D and like having a couple of those elements, like a key part of your scorecard being culture. so yeah, that's Brittany Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Andy Farquharson: awesome. how do you think like w what what role do you see of like bringing the governance to life within the culture? Because that's we see that's a sort of a a big part in great ESOPs is that they really do enable people to to have a say and and and and actually still there's still that delineation between ownership and management, but they definitely bring some of those elements into an ownership perspective into management decisions. Brittany Brown: Yep. that's a really good question. so I think it's gonna kind of come back to to what I ended the last answer with, and that's transparency. you know, we're gonna need to have all employee meetings. We're gonna need to explain things and be willing to explain things two and three and four times, and then prove it by actually doing what we say, right? I mean, you we've got to build the trust with people that we're gonna do what we say and then continue to educate them and show them the benefits of governance and having the changes implemented that we, you know, we're talking about. So it'll be a process for the long term. It's not something that I, you know, think we're gonna go in and snap our fingers and find everybody gets it and we're ready to move on. But so to me it's really just that person to person relationship, building that inside, getting the the leaders that are already there on board with what we're doing, and then getting them to go out and share it with their employees. Andy Farquharson: Okay. I love hearing that. I mean, we as you said, like it takes time. It's not a one it's their culture change is never a one and done. I think this is why it's probably one of the most underinvested elements, like within many, many businesses, is because you can't just sort of implement it straight away or pay some money, get your widget or get whatever it is, and then it's done. So it does take time and it is a real investment. Like so if you're buying like Yeah, any firm, you're effectively taking p people out of productive roles and like putting them into education, training, learning, culture building. That has Brittany Brown: Yeah. Andy Farquharson: a cost. How do is is that something, does that have a line item in your in your sort of post-sales business PL? Like what what does that yeah, how do you think about allocating a cost of in terms of that sort of impact of productivity or sort Brittany Brown: Yep. Andy Farquharson: of a a bringing in additional outside resources or technology to help support the process. Brittany Brown: Yep. So it certainly does have a cost and it will be part of, you know, the budgeting discussion. That'll be part of sort of the financial acumen that we bring into the company to say, okay, look, maybe you've never done a budget before. Let's sit down and talk about what that looks like. And here are the things we need to spend it on, right? so Andy Farquharson: There it is that. Brittany Brown: yes, absolutely. There will be identified dollars for that. But you know, it goes beyond just okay, well, we have ten thousand dollars to spend on a consultant or you know, whatever the case may be. we have to know that, you know. There's gonna be some mental cost there. There's probably gonna be some efficiency cost there. And we have to just remind the leaders, remind ourselves, maybe at some times that we might have to move a little bit back in order to get to where we wanna be ultimately at the end of the day. But if we can invest today, it'll pay off later. And we just have to be willing to pay that cost. Andy Farquharson: I like and I think the part that I love about your model is it y your investors are aligned. They know the journey already. So that they're Brittany Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Andy Farquharson: not going be demanding sort of any sort of different type of outcome other than again, like going through just doing the right steps. I said sometimes it does take one step back to to to make a giant leap forward. Brittany Brown: Mm-hmm. Yep. And and to me, it's always been a big piece of anything is where your expectations are at because you can't be disappointed. Well, you could be, but you probably aren't going to be as disappointed if you realize that this is going to take time and then it actually does take time. Where if you set your expectations incorrectly and you're like, this will be a piece of cake, and then it isn't, you're probably gonna be more frustrated. So having those aligned investors is key because yes, it's gonna take time, we need to be patient, and we all Andy Farquharson: Okay. Well, I mean, how are things going with the fund? Like in terms of like like how's the how are those conversations going with investors, like what's the pipeline of deals look like? Yeah, if you could give us a bit of color there, that'd be awesome. Brittany Brown: Yeah, right now we've got our initial close scheduled for sort of end of 26, early 27. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: and where we want to be at there is at least 15 million to do that. but then you know the upper end of the fund I guess at the end of the day is to stay under 100 investors and probably Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: somewhere near 100 million we're thinking for an upper end. Andy Farquharson: W why the hundred investors? Brittany Brown: so there are some beneficial ownership type rules and then having to file different things with the SEC Andy Farquharson: Exactly. Brittany Brown: that while I will be happy to solve that problem someday, I would like to first get the fund up and going and then solve that Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: another year. so we'll be thrilled if that's a problem we have to solve someday. I'm just not ready for it today. so that's Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Yeah enough. Brittany Brown: kind of where we're at on that piece. we're continuing to have conversations regularly. I was at the Midwest. ESOP conference last week and got to talk with many, many people Andy Farquharson: Nice. Brittany Brown: and have phone calls, continue to, you know, reach out on LinkedIn. So we're kind of in that really heavy meet with CEOs, CFOs, talk with boards kind of phase as people kind of move it through investment committee and sort of their internal processes. and then as I mentioned, just a few weeks ago, we did open it up to individuals. So we're starting to have more of those conversations as well. That's a little bit shorter of a you know a governance cycle there. It's more of are they good or not? so so that's helpful as well. but we're just gonna keep moving towards that timeline. And then in terms of pipelines, certainly have begun. We've got a few companies that we're looking at already and trying to, you know, find one that we feel like would be a great start to the to the platform of portfolio companies that we're gonna build. we'll be industry agnostic. I kind of mentioned the size of two to eight million annually in Ibiza. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, two, yeah. Brittany Brown: but then you know, I think one of the big pieces that we're really hoping for the fund is to build this kind of ecosystem inside of the ESOP ecosystem itself. So we'll have this pool of mature, successful ESOPs and individuals that have eSop backgrounds as our investors. So to the extent that maybe there's a manufacturing company or a distribution company as an investor. If there's a potential target company that is one of those types of companies, we've got a really great set of eyes and partners that can help us look at that company, can help accelerate growth, that sort of thing. So Andy Farquharson: Yeah, that's awesome. Brittany Brown: we're really you know looking at it like that as well, that we we're gonna have some active investors to the extent they wanna be. It's not a requirement. but you know, just just using the resources we have to make things successful and accelerate growth is how we're looking at that. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, very, very exciting journey. That's awesome. so before we close out, like what I like to do is ask all my guests sort of a a fast round of three questions and you just offer a quick response. How does that sound? Awesome. Brittany Brown: Sounds good. Andy Farquharson: So who is the leader that you most admire in employee ownership? Brittany Brown: Okay, so I think what I'm gonna do to you is I'm gonna sidestep on picking one person. So so because Andy Farquharson: Ha ha ha. Brittany Brown: I'm still sort of at a stage where I'm trying to learn from as many people as possible inside the community, I think what I would say is one of the things that's impressed me most about the employee ownership community is how willing people are to share and how willing people Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Brittany Brown: are to connect and you know share perspectives and talk with you. so That's what's left me sort of, you know, most in admiration is that, you know, there is this community of people that have decided to just really help each other. So rather than one person, I'm just really enjoying the community and the opportunity to learn. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, I well I can echo and second that. That's obviously a big part of why we've got seventy episodes. because everyone's willing and happy to talk and Brittany Brown: Yep. Yep. Andy Farquharson: That's a good size step effective. Brittany Brown: Ha ha ha. Andy Farquharson: and so on to the next one. Like what is your favourite resource on employee ownership? Brittany Brown: Okay, well, I guess I probably have to give a similar answer here. So I'm gonna step to the right on the last question and then to the left on this one. but you know, I don't necessarily have a favorite resource. I've been pretty intentional about that, really, is you know, since I'm in this learning phase, I'm trying to consume items from as many different people and sources as possible. you know, so that might be employee owners themselves or third party administrators or trustees and just really trying to kind of pull together a good base foundation and then use that to help shape the way that Co-Rise will operate. Andy Farquharson: Yep. Awesome. And then finally, what what would you say to an owner who's sitting on the fence about a transition to an employee ownership model? Brittany Brown: I would say, you know, just do some homework. ESOP might not be the right answer for everyone. I certainly think they're amazing and they're great. And I I I know you do too. but just be willing to investigate it, I guess. you know, there's probably some hurdles to get over. It might sound complicated or different pieces, but at the end of the day, just just really push through every one of your questions before you make a full decision. Andy Farquharson: Okay, awesome. Brittany, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for sharing so much about Co Rise. like you and you you shared the types of companies that you're looking for and the types of LPs that you'd like to have invest in your fund. If any one of those are listening now, how can they reach out to you and find out and learn more? Brittany Brown: Yeah, no, great question. So we have a LinkedIn page. you can also find myself on LinkedIn or one of my partners, Drew Larson, Eric Engelman. and we'd be happy to connect and then we can get you all the different information that we have and access to our data room so you can investigate and move from there. Andy Farquharson: Awesome. Brittany, thanks for joining us on the alternative exit. Brittany Brown: Yeah, thank you very much.