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SERIAL KILLER TED BUNDY BUSTED IN DECADES OLD TEEN MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a name that strikes fear
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Speaker 1: in the hearts of women and crime victims all around
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Speaker 1: the world. Ted Bundy, May he continue to rot in Hell,
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Speaker 1: roasting over Satan spit. I just made that up for you,
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Speaker 1: by the way. In the Last Days, serial killer Ted
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Speaker 1: Bundy's mask ripped off yet again, this time in a
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Speaker 1: decade's old teen murder case, the cold case solved by DNA.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You know, Ted Bundy
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Speaker 1: is one of the worst serial killers I've ever studied
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Speaker 1: or investigated. In the Last Days we learn another young
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Speaker 1: victim who looks eerily similar to many of his other victims.
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Speaker 1: Her case solved. A Utah teen found dead over fifty
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Speaker 1: years ago, has now been connected to the notorious serial
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Speaker 1: killer Ted Bundy. L E Law enforcement just stated DNA
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Speaker 1: linked Bundy to the murder of a seventeen year old girl,
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Speaker 1: Laura Ann. I MEI may she rest in peace. Laura
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Speaker 1: Ann vanished after she left a Halloween party to go
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Speaker 1: buy a pack of cigarettes all the way back in
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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. Her body was discovered by hikers near
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Speaker 1: an embankment near the American for Canyon Road. Days later,
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Speaker 1: What do we know about Ted Bundy and his other victims?
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Speaker 1: Whose name conjures up visions of terror, of kidnapping, of rape,
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Speaker 1: of murder, even necrophilia. He's called an evil genius. It's
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Speaker 1: hard to live in America unless you're living in a
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Speaker 1: cave or under a rock and not know the name
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Speaker 1: Ted Bundy. I, Nancy Grayce, this is crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. Evil genius? Is that how
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Speaker 1: Ted Bundy should be described? Born Theodore Robert Cowell, the
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Speaker 1: American serial killer, kidnapper, burglar, rapist, necrofile who confessed to
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Speaker 1: thirty homicides in seven different states. A true count of
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Speaker 1: his victims is likely to be much greater. Joining me,
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Speaker 1: renowned serial killer historian, author of Sons of Cain, History
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Speaker 1: of serial Killers from Stone Age to President Peter Vronsky.
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Speaker 1: Also with me, Stephen Lampley, police veteran, former SVU detective
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Speaker 1: and author of Outside Your Door stories in cases of
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Speaker 1: his police career, including the arrest of the Claremont Killer.
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Speaker 1: With me, of course, Alan, the Duke Duke Joining me
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Speaker 1: from La Alan, let me tell you a story about
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Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, and I really cannot reveal my source. I
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Speaker 1: had a very dear friend who was a rookie cop
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Speaker 1: and Ted Bundy had to be transported. The rookie my
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Speaker 1: friend was with a veteran cop. The veteran cop was
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Speaker 1: driving the car. Now, remember Ted Bundy had escaped the
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Speaker 1: courthouse before. I believe escaped ill before by losing so
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Speaker 1: much way to crawl through a vent. Although I may
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Speaker 1: be confusing my serial killers, but they were transported the
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Speaker 1: very slippery Ted Bundy and Ted Bundy got to complaining
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Speaker 1: about I guess the air conditioner or the heater or
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Speaker 1: something in the car, and the veteran cop pulls the
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Speaker 1: car over, opens the car door, gets out, opens Bundy's
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Speaker 1: door and says get out. I want you to run,
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Speaker 1: go ahead, try to escape. Bundy, of course, did not
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Speaker 1: get out of the car, and the veteran cop came
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Speaker 1: to his census shortly thereafter and slammed the door and
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Speaker 1: got back in and continued transporting him so he could
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Speaker 1: live off the public dole for several more years. Everybody,
4:47
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. We're talking about evil geniuses.
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Speaker 1: First to Peter Vronsky, serial killer historian, author of Sons
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Speaker 1: of Caine, History of serial killer Stone Age to President.
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Speaker 1: It's on Amazon dot com. Peter Vronsky Why people insist
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Speaker 1: on referring to Ted Bundy as a genius. I mean,
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Speaker 1: that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, isn't it.
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Speaker 2: Well, he certainly tested high on intelligence, you know, IQ tests.
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Speaker 2: He's a genius in that way, you know, which makes
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Speaker 2: it a that's a myth that serial killers are genius.
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Speaker 2: But he certainly challenges the myth. He's admitted into law school,
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Speaker 2: although he doesn't do that well once he gets into
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Speaker 2: law school. But indeed he's university educated. He's well spoken, genius,
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Speaker 2: I don't know, but certainly intelligent.
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Speaker 1: Well. Steven Lampley, police vet, author of Outside Your Door
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Speaker 1: on Amazon, also Steven Lampley. He managed to elude the
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Speaker 1: police for quite a long time. I mean he confessed
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Speaker 1: to thirty murders of young women. That's just what he's
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Speaker 1: confessed to.
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Speaker 3: You have to understand, serial killers, for the most part,
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Speaker 3: are pretty devious. You know. It takes a while for
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Speaker 3: police officers to realize that, indeed, that they do have
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Speaker 3: a serial killer. And Ted, by his own admission, he
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Speaker 3: was well versed in how police operate, well versed in forensics,
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Speaker 3: and that made it even more difficult for police to
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Speaker 3: round him up. And then on top of that, he
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Speaker 3: was able to be a chameleon of sorts. He blended in.
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Speaker 3: He could change his appearance pretty much at will. And
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Speaker 3: then they had different descriptions of his car. Some it
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Speaker 3: was ron, some said it was tan. So he had
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Speaker 3: a lot of stuff and then black of a better
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Speaker 3: words going for him to allow him to keep going
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Speaker 3: on with.
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Speaker 1: This Ted Bondy, the name alone strikes fear in the
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Speaker 1: hearts of so many. Listen to Rondas Stapley, a young
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Speaker 1: college student who accepts a ride from a handsome stranger.
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Speaker 1: Listen to what she tells Doctor Phil and.
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Speaker 4: This tandal cried and drove by very slowly. Cut driver
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Speaker 4: kind of looked me as we went passed, and then
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Speaker 4: he stopped and backed up and leaned over and rolled
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Speaker 4: down the passenger window and asked me where I was going.
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Speaker 4: I told him I was going up to the U
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Speaker 4: and he said me too, hop in. So I opened
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Speaker 4: the door and got in. The first thing that I
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Speaker 4: noticed was the inside passenger door handle was missing. And
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Speaker 4: he leaned over and pulled the door shut, but I
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Speaker 4: wasn't alarmed. I figured college kid, college car, things fall off.
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Speaker 4: He was dressed nice, had a green pollover sweater on
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Speaker 4: nice slacks, lighthearted. We just had the normal conversation that
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Speaker 4: strangers would have. I told him my name's Ronda and
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Speaker 4: I'm a pharmacy student. What are you studying? He told
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Speaker 4: me his name was Ted and he was a law student.
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Speaker 4: In just a couple of blocks, he turned a way
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Speaker 4: that wasn't the normal route to the university, and I
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Speaker 4: asked him about that, and he was very polite and
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Speaker 4: asked my permission if it would be all right if
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Speaker 4: he took a little detour. He told me I had
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Speaker 4: to run an errand up by the zoo, and I
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Speaker 4: told him that would be fine.
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Speaker 1: I didn't care.
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Speaker 4: I thought I would still be home faster than if
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Speaker 4: I had waited for the bus. And then we went
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Speaker 4: right on past the zoo and I said, hey, I
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Speaker 4: thought we were taking me to the zoo, and he
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Speaker 4: said no. I said, near the zoo, that road goes
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Speaker 4: over the hill and drops down into Parley's Canyon, which
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Speaker 4: is the main highway back into the city. And instead
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Speaker 4: he turned left and started driving up another canyon, and
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Speaker 4: as he's driving, he's kind of looking at parking places
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Speaker 4: and side roads. The conversation started to go weird then,
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Speaker 4: because he stopped talking to me, and I'm still trying
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Speaker 4: to make idle conversation, and I'm thinking that he's probably
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Speaker 4: looking for a place to pull off in the park
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Speaker 4: and wants to make out. And I don't know him,
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Speaker 4: and I'm not really a makeout person, but he's still
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Speaker 4: a cute law student and I want him and I
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Speaker 4: don't want to embarrass myself, so I'm thinking of how
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Speaker 4: do I get out of this situation? And then he
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Speaker 4: pulled into a parking place and parked the car and
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Speaker 4: turned it off, and then he turned into the car seats,
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Speaker 4: so he's kind of facing me, and he leaned in
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Speaker 4: really close. I thought he was going to kiss me. Instead,
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Speaker 4: he said, very quietly, do you know what I'm going
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Speaker 4: to kill you? And he put his hands on my
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Speaker 4: throat and started squeezing. My first thought was, it has
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Speaker 4: to be some kind of a joke. This guy's got
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Speaker 4: the weirdest sense of humor. But that was just maybe
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Speaker 4: a fraction of a second because I realized he was
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Speaker 4: squeezing too tightly. He was serious, and I was in
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Speaker 4: trouble and there's no door handle.
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Speaker 1: What did you do?
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Speaker 4: We had a little small battle in the car, but
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Speaker 4: I went unconscious.
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Speaker 1: Did you put up a fight?
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Speaker 4: I did as much of a fight as you can
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Speaker 4: put up when you're running.
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Speaker 1: Out of air. Did you think at that point I'm
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Speaker 1: going to die? You were hearing who was then a
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Speaker 1: young college student, Ronda Stapley, describing her encounter with Ted Bundy.
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Speaker 1: She lived to tell the tale to Peter Vronsky, serial
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Speaker 1: killer historian. There are so many aspects of what she said.
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Speaker 1: He uses his charm, his affabil his too many people
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Speaker 1: good looks, his status as a law student to impress
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Speaker 1: a young girl. She believes. It is almost as if
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Speaker 1: her eyes in her mind are tricking her to what's
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Speaker 1: really happening.
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Speaker 2: Peter, Well, you know that's what makes Ted Bundy such
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Speaker 2: a unique serial killer. We hadn't encountered one like that before.
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Speaker 2: I mean, here was, as you say, an affable, charming, intelligent,
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Speaker 2: handsome young man. It wasn't what we imagined. You know,
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Speaker 2: even though we didn't have the word serial killer itself,
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Speaker 2: we knew that there were multiple killers like that, but
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Speaker 2: not the kind of charmer that he was. Our usual
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Speaker 2: concept of that kind of killer was that they were
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Speaker 2: kind of twitchy, reclusive, repulsive loaners that would pounds on
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Speaker 2: the victim. So Ted Bundy redefined I think in our
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Speaker 2: perception what serial killers, the modern serial killer really is
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Speaker 2: like or can be like.
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Speaker 1: He's right, Stephen Lampley, author, Outside your Door, Stephen, ted
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Speaker 1: Bundy really changed the world's perspective of a serial killer.
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Speaker 1: Because now, although Ted Bundy is not remotely attractive to me,
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Speaker 1: many people find him to be to have dark, good looks.
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Speaker 1: You know, he's got his thick head of wavy, dark
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Speaker 1: brown hair, soulful looking eyes, a good physique. He's clearly
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Speaker 1: highly intelligent. He could have done so much with his life.
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Speaker 1: Instead he became a notorious serial killer. How do you
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Speaker 1: think or do you agree, Stephen, that he changed the
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Speaker 1: world's perception of serial killers?
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Speaker 3: I do? I do you know? And I find even
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Speaker 3: today that people will come up to me and they
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Speaker 3: want to know because I had my interaction with the
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Speaker 3: Claremont killer, and he himself was for the brief time
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Speaker 3: that I spoke with him, he himself was a very
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Speaker 3: charming individual, well spoken, and they appeared to be a
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Speaker 3: person that could be very little liked, and then Ted
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Speaker 3: had changed. Ted did change the perspective. And it's like
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Speaker 3: Peter said, people expect serial killers to be some for
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Speaker 3: the most part, some under the bridge, knuckle dragging ogres,
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Speaker 3: you know, with knives and running around the neighborhood. And
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Speaker 3: that's not the case. And Ted did so much to
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Speaker 3: change that perception.
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Speaker 1: No one really knows when or where Ted Bundy really
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Speaker 1: began murdering women. He's told so many different stories to
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Speaker 1: so many different people, and he has always refused to
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Speaker 1: divulge exact facts of his earliest murders. Now he confessed
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Speaker 1: in detail to many other murders. But we don't know
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Speaker 1: when he began murdering. But we do know. On January fourth,
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Speaker 1: one of his murders goes down in the middle of
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Speaker 1: the night. He enters the basement apartment of a young girl,
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Speaker 1: a teen girl, Karen Sparks. She has been identified under
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Speaker 1: different names in different places. She's a student at UW
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Speaker 1: and she's asleep. He bludgeons her senseless with a metal
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Speaker 1: rod that he gets from her bed frame, and then
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Speaker 1: sexually assaults her, we believe, with the same rod causing
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Speaker 1: so many and such extensive internal injuries from the sex assault.
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Speaker 1: She remains unconscious for ten days. She's in a coma.
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Speaker 1: She's survived, but with permanent disabilities. Now. Just a few
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Speaker 1: days later, he breaks into the basement of Linda an Heally,
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Speaker 1: another UW undergrad who broadcasts a morning radio weather report
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Speaker 1: for skiers. He beats her unconscious, dresses her in blue
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Speaker 1: jeans and white blouse and boots, and carries her away.
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Speaker 1: Then female college students began to disappear about one a
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Speaker 1: month around Olympia, Washington, and nobody knows what is going on.
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Speaker 1: Right there, Peter Ronsky, what happens next?
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Speaker 2: He becomes very mobile as he's you know, flunking out
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Speaker 2: in some of his courses. He switches universities, he crosses
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Speaker 2: state lines, so nobody is connecting these murders that he's committing.
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Speaker 2: And you know, for Ted, it's not about the murder,
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Speaker 2: it's about possessing these these victims. He wants to disable
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Speaker 2: the victim as quickly as possible. And you know, as
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Speaker 2: another killer serial killer once said, it wasn't that I
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Speaker 2: wanted to kill. I wanted to evictim from their bodies.
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Speaker 2: So you know, he is a collector essentially. In fact,
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Speaker 2: he described his murders as possessing his victims, he said,
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Speaker 2: physically as one would possess a potted plant, a painting,
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Speaker 2: or a porsche, you know. So for him it was
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Speaker 2: control over a body. He is just obsessed with this collection.
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Speaker 2: And the problem, of course is he's a necrofile. So
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Speaker 2: there's an expiry date on the bodies, and after a
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Speaker 2: few days, as the body decomposes, he becomes repulsed by
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Speaker 2: it and he needs to move on, so find another body.
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Speaker 2: And that's kind of a spiral that he gets into.
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Speaker 1: How do we know, Peter Vronsky, that Ted Bundy, in
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Speaker 1: addition to being a burglar, rapist and murderer, why do
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Speaker 1: you say he was a necro file?
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Speaker 2: Well, because he himself he confessed that he would return
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Speaker 2: back to the grave sites sometimes after work, and that
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Speaker 2: he would spend the night with the corpse, you know,
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Speaker 2: until the course became repulsive to him. As well, he
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Speaker 2: brought the heads home of some of his victims. At
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Speaker 2: least half of his victims were beheaded, you know. In
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Speaker 2: one case, he brought a head home to the apartment
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Speaker 2: of his girlfriend when she wasn't there, and after he
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Speaker 2: was finished with the head, he burnt it in her fireplace.
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Speaker 1: You may have noticed a long pause because I thought
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Speaker 1: I knew a lot about Bundy, but I did not
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Speaker 1: know that. I did not know he severed the heads
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Speaker 1: of victims, and I did not know specifically that he
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Speaker 1: brought one home to his girlfriend's home and burned it
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Speaker 1: in the fireplace. Peter Ronsky, author of Sons of Kane,
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Speaker 1: History of serial Killers, Why what was his fascination with
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Speaker 1: dead women's bodies?
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, for serial killers, they say that the
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Speaker 2: primary motive for a serial killer is control control over
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Speaker 2: the victim. And so the ultimate control that one can have,
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Speaker 2: of course, is once you've killed the victim and you
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Speaker 2: possess their their their body. There's no greater control than that,
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Speaker 2: short of cannibalism. And and and certainly that's another trait,
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Speaker 2: although I don't think Ted Bundy, you know, participated in cannibalism,
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Speaker 2: but that's another example of taking control over over the victim.
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Speaker 2: He not only brought the heads home, but he also
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Speaker 2: would apply makeup on some of the corpses, he would
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Speaker 2: wash their hair, he would model them essentially in the
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Speaker 2: way he wanted to. So it's it's all about the.
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Speaker 1: Control crime stories with Nancy Grace in the last days,
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Speaker 1: another victim of notorious and might I say, evil, pure
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Speaker 1: out evil serial killer Ted Bundy has been named and
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Speaker 1: connected to Bundy by DNA. Her name Laura and am
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Speaker 1: just seventeen years old. I noticed way back when I
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Speaker 1: began studying Ted Bundy. Now why was I studying him?
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Speaker 1: I remember when I made this connection, I was already prosecuting,
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Speaker 1: because I remember I was reading a book at night
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Speaker 1: at home in my little bitty apartment behind mary Max
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Speaker 1: Restaurant on Ponts de Leon, as we say in Atlanta,
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Speaker 1: not Ponce de lyon ponstantly On. It's a meat and
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Speaker 1: veg restaurant. I leved right behind it, and it was
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Speaker 1: on my way home from the courthouse. So I had
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Speaker 1: eaten in Merrimax, my usual at that time. I couldn't
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Speaker 1: afford to get the meat, so I would get three vegetables.
19:15
Speaker 1: The bread was free and ice water with a straw
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Speaker 1: my usual. And I had come home and taken a shower,
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Speaker 1: gotten in bed. I was reading a book about Bundy.
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Speaker 1: I was getting ready to try a serial killer. It
19:30
Speaker 1: was several months away the trial was, so I had
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Speaker 1: time to actually read a book instead of working on
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Speaker 1: case files. And I was looking at the photos of
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Speaker 1: all of his victims, and so many of them were thin,
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Speaker 1: white females with darkish hair, parted long hair and parted
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Speaker 1: in the middle. And I was stunned at the amazing
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Speaker 1: physical similarities of all of these victims. Now, I know
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Speaker 1: there were some victims that don't fit that some of
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Speaker 1: Bundy's victims, but a lot of them did. And Laura
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Speaker 1: Ann does as well. And she's wearing an outfit that
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Speaker 1: reminds me of one of my sister's favorite outfits that
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Speaker 1: she wore to high school. So I'm just I don't know.
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Speaker 1: I just feel so sorrowful for her family. She was
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Speaker 1: so young seventeen when she was murdered by Ted Bundy.
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Speaker 1: Investigators determined Laura Anne had been raped, strangled, and murdered,
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Speaker 1: and for decades Bundy was suspected in her death. Let
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Speaker 1: me note he started studying law at the University of
20:47
Speaker 1: Utah just two months before she disappeared. Now we also
20:51
Speaker 1: know Bundy had approached Laura Ann multiple times and it
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Speaker 1: stalked her before murdering her. We learn and it's very
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Speaker 1: similar to other cases, other victims of Ted Bundy's, who
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Speaker 1: is synonymous with attractive, good looks, charm and debonair anything.
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Speaker 1: But it's the stark truth of Ted Bundy. You're hearing stories,
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Speaker 1: true stories from Peter Vronsky, serial killer historian and author
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Speaker 1: of Sons of Cain History of serial Killers from Stone
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Speaker 1: Age to Present, and Stephen Lampley, highly regarded police veteran
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Speaker 1: SVU detective author of Outside Your Door, both of these
21:37
Speaker 1: books on Amazon dot com. Peter, you were just describing
21:41
Speaker 1: how Ted Bundy would keep many of the victims' bodies,
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Speaker 1: bathe them, wash their hair, apply makeup on them. True
21:51
Speaker 1: facts about Ted Bundy are horrific to me. Stephen Lampley,
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Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are saying, oh, he, I don't
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Speaker 1: know how genius he was. He managed to evade the
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Speaker 1: police for quite a long time. He had two, at
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Speaker 1: least we know of two series of murders. The last
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Speaker 1: one I was talking about in the Pacific Northwest female
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Speaker 1: college students disappearing at about one a month. Nobody could
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Speaker 1: figure it out. There was Donna Gail Manson, a nineteen
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Speaker 1: year old at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Susan Elaine Rancourt.
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Speaker 1: We talked about I mean it goes on and on
22:30
Speaker 1: and on. Then facts began sifting through about a Volkswagen
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Speaker 1: Beetle a ten VW. Then Roberta Kathleen Parks left her
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Speaker 1: dorm at Oregon State University to have coffee with friends
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Speaker 1: and she never arrived. Another girl goes missing. Apart from
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Speaker 1: being young and pretty, college students with long hair parted
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Speaker 1: in the middle, no one could really get a better connection.
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Speaker 1: So one woman recalled a man coming up to her
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Speaker 1: asking her to help him carry a case to his car,
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Speaker 1: a light brown VW that he was struggling because he
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Speaker 1: had his arm in a cast. Steven Lampley, he's clearly
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Speaker 1: tricking all these women. He also tricked the police.
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Speaker 3: Sure, I mean that's what. That's what one of the
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Speaker 3: Ted Dundee's traits. He did that very well. He was
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Speaker 3: a very charming individual, and he approached strangers he didn't need.
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Speaker 3: He was intentionally avoiding people that he knew, meant that
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Speaker 3: he had probably met before. But he was a very
23:37
Speaker 3: charming individual and he used that guys with the fake army.
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Speaker 3: At one point he even used crutches and a cast
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Speaker 3: on his leg that he made from plaster of Paris
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Speaker 3: in order to win the confidence of these women, would
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Speaker 3: you please help me? And of course he was a
23:52
Speaker 3: you know, a as most people would say, good looking
23:55
Speaker 3: gentleman law students, and they were more than happy to adlige,
23:58
Speaker 3: which made his uh, those grab victims relatively.
24:02
Speaker 1: Easy, you know right now? I mean there's such lore
24:04
Speaker 1: around Warranted or not around Bundy. His Volkswagen Beetle, where
24:11
Speaker 1: he committed so many of his crimes, is currently on
24:13
Speaker 1: display at the National Museum of Crime and Punishment. Then
24:19
Speaker 1: we start seeing similarities between the victims. The disappearances take
24:23
Speaker 1: place at night within a week of exams. The victims
24:28
Speaker 1: are always wearing slacks or blue jeans. There were sightings
24:33
Speaker 1: in the area where people would go missing of a
24:35
Speaker 1: man wearing a cast or sling driving a brown or
24:39
Speaker 1: tan vw a beetle. Then came the broad daylight abductions
24:46
Speaker 1: east of Seattle. Witnesses describe an attractive young man in
24:51
Speaker 1: a white tennis outfit with a left arm in a sling,
24:55
Speaker 1: speaking with perhaps a British or Canadian acts, introducing himself
25:02
Speaker 1: as Ted and asking for help unloading a sailboat from
25:07
Speaker 1: his VW four, refused one one as far as his
25:11
Speaker 1: car saw there was no sailboat, and ran. Four hours later,
25:17
Speaker 1: Denise Marie Naslin, just nineteen years old, left a picnic
25:22
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom and never comes back. What
25:27
Speaker 1: finally made Ted Bundy stop and that series of brutal
25:33
Speaker 1: murders Peter Vronsky, Well, you.
25:36
Speaker 2: Know what made was he never stopped though. You know,
25:41
Speaker 2: he that day at the beach, he actually had kidnapped
25:44
Speaker 2: two women, and in fact, that was the first time
25:48
Speaker 2: that authorities clued in that you know, there was somebody
25:53
Speaker 2: called Ted out there because he had approached several women
25:57
Speaker 2: he left behind witnesses. In this case, he kidnapped one
26:04
Speaker 2: woman was actually a probation officer, and you know, he
26:09
Speaker 2: appeared so vulnerable, so helpless, that these women just felt
26:15
Speaker 2: so sorry for him that they, you know, helped them.
26:18
Speaker 2: One actually later said, you know, before she kind of
26:23
Speaker 2: didn't have the time to help him, that she had
26:26
Speaker 2: hoped that maybe he would take her out on that
26:28
Speaker 2: sale boat one, you know, later in the day. So
26:32
Speaker 2: that's the first break authorities get. You know, you have
26:36
Speaker 2: to remember that the nineteen seventies people were not really
26:41
Speaker 2: as aware of serial killers as we are today. The
26:45
Speaker 2: FBI is only you know, the so called mind hunters
26:49
Speaker 2: have only started interviewing serial killers inside of prisons to
26:53
Speaker 2: ask them what they're doing. So jurisdictions didn't really have
26:58
Speaker 2: even the kind of communication nets that they have today.
27:02
Speaker 2: You know, most departments didn't use computers the way we
27:07
Speaker 2: do today that were very expensive, so information didn't cross.
27:12
Speaker 2: Was called linkage blindness. So you know, it wasn't really
27:17
Speaker 2: that long that he went under I'm apprehended was about
27:21
Speaker 2: eighteen months, which today would you know, not a long
27:26
Speaker 2: time really, So it was those kidnappings at the park
27:31
Speaker 2: that really alerted authorities to his method, to the possibility
27:35
Speaker 2: of an individual by the name of Ted in that
27:39
Speaker 2: colored folkswagon, and very slowly various jurisdictions began sharing information
27:46
Speaker 2: with each other.
27:47
Speaker 1: This is the irony Peter Vronsky, author of Sons of Kine,
27:51
Speaker 1: because the King's County Police got a detailed description of
27:56
Speaker 1: a suspect in his car, and they posted flyers all
28:00
Speaker 1: around Seattle, including a composite sketch. It was in all
28:04
Speaker 1: the newspapers, on TV stations, and right then Elizabeth Klepfer
28:11
Speaker 1: and Rule that we were discussing earlier a DEES employee,
28:16
Speaker 1: she actually was on Amanda suicide hotline with Ted Bundy.
28:21
Speaker 1: And Rule, who became the great prolific criminal true crime writer,
28:25
Speaker 1: and a UW psychology professor all recognized the profile, the sketch,
28:32
Speaker 1: the car and reported Bundy as a suspect. And guess
28:36
Speaker 1: what happened. Detectives were getting about two hundred tips a
28:39
Speaker 1: day and they just couldn't take in that a clean
28:42
Speaker 1: cut law student with no criminal history at all could
28:46
Speaker 1: be the perpetrator and he continued killing. That happened.
28:50
Speaker 2: Peter and Rule at first actually couldn't believe that Ted
28:57
Speaker 2: Bundy was guilty. And a lot of people who work
29:03
Speaker 2: with Ted would joke when they saw the composite and laugh,
29:08
Speaker 2: you know, well, isn't your name Ted? You look like
29:12
Speaker 2: the guy in the composite photo, and don't you drive
29:16
Speaker 2: a folkswagon? But Ted's personality was he had such a
29:21
Speaker 2: mask of sanity that nobody could actually believe despite all
29:27
Speaker 2: this evidence linking him to know that suspect, nobody could
29:33
Speaker 2: imagine Ted being a murderer. He was just too much
29:38
Speaker 2: like us. I think that's why people are so interested
29:43
Speaker 2: in Ted Bundy, because, unlike many other serial killers, he
29:47
Speaker 2: had the same kind of ambitions that we did. You know,
29:51
Speaker 2: he was a middle class, ambitious, intelligent, studious member of society.
29:59
Speaker 2: He was among us. He was on the inside, to
30:03
Speaker 2: the point that even when police began to get a
30:06
Speaker 2: very good composite of who this suspect was and people
30:11
Speaker 2: were recognizing him, they still could not see through his
30:15
Speaker 2: personality to the real truth, to the monster that lay
30:19
Speaker 2: beneath that facade that he had put up.
30:21
Speaker 1: Well, then he moves on. He gets a second acceptance
30:26
Speaker 1: from University of Utah Law School. He moves to Salt
30:29
Speaker 1: Lake City, and he leaves Seattle and all of his
30:32
Speaker 1: murder victims behind. He was dating at least a dozen
30:36
Speaker 1: women at a time, according to what we've learned in
30:40
Speaker 1: law school the first year. This is his second time
30:44
Speaker 1: around first year law school. It hit him. Now. People
30:48
Speaker 1: believe that Bundy was brilliant, but he was personally devastated
30:53
Speaker 1: when he could not keep up with the one L curriculum.
30:57
Speaker 1: And I've got to tell you, having been there, Stephen
30:59
Speaker 1: lamp I studied so much. I would even study when
31:03
Speaker 1: I was taking a bath If you look at my
31:06
Speaker 1: criminal law book from first year, there's watermarks all along
31:11
Speaker 1: the side pages where I would turn the pages. Sometimes
31:14
Speaker 1: I would have to read one sentence. Of course, the
31:17
Speaker 1: sentence could be a whole paragraph, but over and over
31:21
Speaker 1: so I would could make sure I understood it. Then
31:24
Speaker 1: I quickly got to the point where after reading one paragraph,
31:28
Speaker 1: I'd have to write a note and the column of
31:32
Speaker 1: the page on the side explaining to me in my words,
31:36
Speaker 1: what that paragraph just said. And then I go through
31:39
Speaker 1: the whole Supreme Court opinion that way, and then go
31:42
Speaker 1: back through and read my own notes so I could
31:44
Speaker 1: understand fully what I had just read. So it's overwhelming.
31:49
Speaker 1: A lot of the legal terms are in Latin. So
31:52
Speaker 1: Bundy basically noted up because he could not keep up
31:57
Speaker 1: with the first year of law school.
31:59
Speaker 3: Stephen Wed he self admitted he had trouble keeping up
32:04
Speaker 3: with the other students, and it was he himself had
32:07
Speaker 3: had a relatively low self esteem and not a good
32:09
Speaker 3: outlook on himself anyway. So the fact that he was
32:14
Speaker 3: not able to keep up by his own self admission,
32:17
Speaker 3: like I said, it made it hard on him and
32:19
Speaker 3: that could possibly have been one of the triggers that
32:23
Speaker 3: didn't start to be kept him going in this this
32:26
Speaker 3: carnage well.
32:27
Speaker 1: And also that frustration. I mean, how candy kid up
32:30
Speaker 1: when he's committing murders and hiding the evidence. I mean
32:34
Speaker 1: he then killed an unnamed hitchhiker, then got rid of
32:37
Speaker 1: the body or went back the next day to photograph
32:40
Speaker 1: and dismember the body. Then there is a change. He
32:44
Speaker 1: kidnaps a sixteen year old girl, Nancy Wilcox, near Salt
32:48
Speaker 1: Lake City, drags her off into the woods, and he
32:50
Speaker 1: tries to change his mo He wants to just rape
32:54
Speaker 1: her and then release her. He says he accidentally strangled
32:59
Speaker 1: her dead trying to make her stop screaming. Her remains,
33:05
Speaker 1: to my understanding, were never found. If he's to be believed,
33:11
Speaker 1: her remains are somewhere near the Capitol Reef National Park.
33:15
Speaker 1: Then it goes on. Then there's a seventeen year old
33:18
Speaker 1: daughter of a police chief in Midvale, Melissa and Smith,
33:23
Speaker 1: just turned seventeen, disappears leaving a pizza parlor. She's found
33:29
Speaker 1: naked and dead in a mountainous area nine days later,
33:34
Speaker 1: and the post mortem revealed she remained alive up to
33:39
Speaker 1: seven days after she disappears. What does that mean to
33:44
Speaker 1: Peter Vronsky, author of Sons of Cain, He kept her
33:47
Speaker 1: alive for seven days after he kidnapped her.
33:49
Speaker 2: Well, you know, serial killers, for many of them, it's
33:53
Speaker 2: kind of a learning process. So he's probably testing out
33:56
Speaker 2: his various fantasies, you know what. You know, the method
34:01
Speaker 2: kind of changes, but the signature, the inner psychological motive
34:08
Speaker 2: that's driving the crime always stays the same. And in
34:12
Speaker 2: this case, it's it's still control over the victim. So
34:18
Speaker 2: Ted might be experimenting at this point to seeing whether
34:21
Speaker 2: he can perhaps keep a victim alive rather than necessarily
34:26
Speaker 2: enjoying them when they're dead. So serial killers will shift
34:32
Speaker 2: and change in how they commit the crime, but the
34:36
Speaker 2: reasons will always be the same. And again, it's it's
34:40
Speaker 2: control over the victim. So you know, it's it's essentially
34:47
Speaker 2: you know, he's he's like his fantasy of being a lawyer,
34:51
Speaker 2: or like his fantasy of having the perfect girlfriend. You know,
34:56
Speaker 2: we often see that the beginning of his killings when
34:59
Speaker 2: he starts, occur shortly after he wins back his lost love,
35:04
Speaker 2: this girl he was dating who broke up with him,
35:09
Speaker 2: and then he reconquered her, and once he kind of
35:13
Speaker 2: reconquered her to return to him, he then drops her
35:17
Speaker 2: because the fantasy is much better than the reality. So
35:23
Speaker 2: that's often how they get into that serial pattern. So
35:25
Speaker 2: he's testing all these different things, but at the bottom
35:29
Speaker 2: of our everything is always his need to control the
35:32
Speaker 2: victim and possess. It's all about possession and control.
35:44
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray. Now, why anybody relied on
35:52
Speaker 1: Bundy to name his victims, I do not know, because
35:55
Speaker 1: Bundy reportedly failed to recall Laura Ann among his victims
36:00
Speaker 1: when he was confessing to several homicides across Utah. Oh
36:05
Speaker 1: oh okay, So I guess he didn't do it because
36:07
Speaker 1: he didn't remember it. Really, I I don't know what
36:14
Speaker 1: they were thinking. Anyway, fast forward now, the mystery surrounding
36:19
Speaker 1: her death went silent for fifty one years until investigators
36:27
Speaker 1: at Utah County Sheriffs used new DNA technology to link
36:32
Speaker 1: Bundy to Laura Ann. What more do we know about
36:40
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy's reign of terror? Listen to the family of
36:45
Speaker 1: Susan Raincourt. So her roommates knew right away something was wrong.
36:49
Speaker 1: I said, well, where did she go last night. I said, well,
36:52
Speaker 1: she went to a dorm.
36:53
Speaker 5: Leader's meeting and was on her way back to this.
36:56
Speaker 1: Dorm room and never came back. This is where we where.
37:03
Speaker 1: He objected her.
37:05
Speaker 6: She had to work through this to get to a dorm.
37:08
Speaker 1: I would be obsessed with searching for her. She had
37:12
Speaker 1: bright yellow ski coat.
37:13
Speaker 5: I would just look for that everywhere we went. I
37:16
Speaker 5: found myself looking in fields and ditches for this yellow
37:20
Speaker 5: ski jacket to stick out like a sort of thumb,
37:22
Speaker 5: and I would be able to say a founder, And
37:25
Speaker 5: we lived for a long time.
37:27
Speaker 1: We are talking about the so called evil genius, a
37:30
Speaker 1: prolific serial killer, Ted Bundy, his killing spree across the country. Continued,
37:39
Speaker 1: How Peter Vronsky, author of Sons of King, was he
37:42
Speaker 1: ultimately captured.
37:44
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's the amazing part of it that
37:48
Speaker 2: sometimes it's a random alert police officer that breaks the case,
37:55
Speaker 2: not realizing you know who he has under arrest. Ted
38:01
Speaker 2: Bundy attracts the attention of an officer who sees his vehicle,
38:09
Speaker 2: he doesn't appear to belong there. He pulls them over.
38:14
Speaker 2: You know he in fact, I think, if I'm not mistaken,
38:18
Speaker 2: the police officers suspected that he might have a DUI
38:22
Speaker 2: case on this. Yeah.
38:24
Speaker 1: It was a Utah Highway patrol officer in Granger, which
38:28
Speaker 1: is near Salt Lake City, and he saw Bundy cruising
38:31
Speaker 1: a residential area in the early early morning hours, got
38:35
Speaker 1: suspicious and when he pulled up behind and Bundy took off. Yeah,
38:38
Speaker 1: he didn't even know Bundy was doing anything wrong. And
38:42
Speaker 1: then when Bundy took off a speeding when he saw
38:46
Speaker 1: the patrol car, there's nothing that gets under cop skin.
38:49
Speaker 1: Then you take off at ninety mph when all they
38:51
Speaker 1: do is just pull up behind you, you know. So
38:54
Speaker 1: of course they chased him. And then when they get him,
38:58
Speaker 1: he sees the cops sees the VD pat front passenger
39:01
Speaker 1: seat was removed and put on the back seats. There
39:05
Speaker 1: was a ski mask, a second mask fashion from panty hose.
39:09
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, Steven Lampley, a guy's carrying around
39:13
Speaker 1: a pantyhose mask that doesn't get you.
39:16
Speaker 2: And the pair of handcuffs in an ice pick, I think.
39:19
Speaker 1: As well, and rule yeah, and burglary tools, I mean,
39:22
Speaker 1: and it supported about the handcuffs. Steven Lampley, author of
39:26
Speaker 1: Outside Your Door on Amazon, because Steve he had chang.
39:30
Speaker 2: His m O.
39:31
Speaker 1: He had lost the fake cast and the crutches we
39:34
Speaker 1: were talking about. Then he began impersonating a police officer
39:38
Speaker 1: and with handcuff the victiman. In fact, the first time
39:41
Speaker 1: that we know of, the first time he tried it,
39:43
Speaker 1: he accidentally put the cuffs on one victim's both of
39:47
Speaker 1: them on one wrist, and she got away and in
39:49
Speaker 1: the parking lot they found the key to the cuffs.
39:51
Speaker 1: All right, remember that after a drama practice or something
39:55
Speaker 1: one evening a teen girl. So now these handcuffs are
39:58
Speaker 1: taking on a whole new meaning and significance. So what
40:03
Speaker 1: about this? What about it, Stephen Lampley? You know, it
40:06
Speaker 1: reminds me so much of Timothy McVeigh. You know, the
40:11
Speaker 1: ok CD bomber. He was pulled over some traffic issue.
40:15
Speaker 1: Same thing here.
40:16
Speaker 3: What about it, Steve, Well, it happens, you know, sort
40:20
Speaker 3: of related. Of course, they didn't arrest Jeffrey. Jeffrey Dahmer
40:23
Speaker 3: had committed his first homicide of Stephen Higgs and had
40:28
Speaker 3: was going to take him to the dump and had
40:30
Speaker 3: him in the back seat of his car and trash
40:33
Speaker 3: bags when the police stopped him. Of course, now in
40:36
Speaker 3: that case, unfortunately they did not take it to the
40:38
Speaker 3: next step and then actually, you know, look into trash
40:41
Speaker 3: bags and why would they you know it was trash.
40:44
Speaker 3: But it happens a lot of times these criminals. In
40:47
Speaker 3: the twenty one years I was a police officer, we
40:51
Speaker 3: would see people that would have fellony warrants and be
40:54
Speaker 3: wanted for some pree heinous stuff driving around with these
40:57
Speaker 3: fired tags in one headlight.
41:00
Speaker 1: You really never know expired tag and missing headlight. Well,
41:05
Speaker 1: Bundy manages to explain some of this away when he's
41:09
Speaker 1: caught cruising that residential area. He explains the ski mask
41:13
Speaker 1: was for skiing, he had found the handcuffs in a dumpster,
41:17
Speaker 1: and the rest were just household items. Now, the detective,
41:22
Speaker 1: it was Jerry Thompson, remembered a similar suspect in car
41:25
Speaker 1: description from the Duranch kidnapping and he became suspicious. He
41:31
Speaker 1: searched Bundy's apartment. He found a guide to Colorado ski
41:35
Speaker 1: resorts with a check mark by the wild Wood Inn
41:39
Speaker 1: and a brochure about a Vermont High School play where
41:44
Speaker 1: Deborah Kent had gone missing. But still that wasn't enough
41:49
Speaker 1: to arrest him. They let him go. Ro R released
41:53
Speaker 1: on own recognissance. We later find out the searchers missed
41:58
Speaker 1: a whole steck of polaroid photographs of his victims. As
42:04
Speaker 1: soon as he released was released roar, he destroyed them,
42:09
Speaker 1: got rid of them. So what happens next? They put
42:14
Speaker 1: Bundy on twenty four hour surveillance and Thompson detected. Jerry
42:18
Speaker 1: Thompson flies to Seattle with detect Us to interview people,
42:22
Speaker 1: and they find out so much. They find out that
42:26
Speaker 1: in the year before he moved away, discovered in his
42:31
Speaker 1: home his apartment he rented from someone were crutches, a
42:36
Speaker 1: bag of plaster of Paris, and a meat cleaver that
42:40
Speaker 1: he never used for cooking, surgical gloves, an oriental knife,
42:46
Speaker 1: and a sackful of women's clothing. What about that, Peter Ronsky,
42:53
Speaker 1: I mean, it just screams out evidence.
42:56
Speaker 2: Well, you know, certainly the plash of Paris, of course,
43:01
Speaker 2: would connect him to the use of a fake cast
43:05
Speaker 2: that he wore in luring women into his vehicle. He
43:11
Speaker 2: would also use it as a way to knock them
43:14
Speaker 2: unconscious once they turned their back on him. So very
43:18
Speaker 2: slowly police start making these connections to various cases that
43:25
Speaker 2: were unsolved in their jurisdictions. On top of that you
43:30
Speaker 2: have to remember that Ted Bundy's girlfriend, even though she
43:33
Speaker 2: continued to have a relationship with him, she was sending
43:37
Speaker 2: this information to the police already. And so now police
43:42
Speaker 2: start backtracking and looking in much closer detail now that
43:49
Speaker 2: they had targeted, you know, who the individual was at,
43:52
Speaker 2: the kind of reports they were getting, and so they
43:55
Speaker 2: were able to time, of course, much better. When Ted
43:58
Speaker 2: possessed this plaster of of you know, this this medical
44:03
Speaker 2: plaster which he was stealing. He was working as at
44:07
Speaker 2: one point in a medical distribution company. In fact, some
44:12
Speaker 2: of the tools that he used on his victims were
44:16
Speaker 2: medical tools that he stole from the delivery company.
44:20
Speaker 3: That he worked for.
44:21
Speaker 2: So very slowly they began to assemble all this evidence
44:26
Speaker 2: that began to look in the perspective of what they
44:30
Speaker 2: now knew, and the you know, it gave them a
44:32
Speaker 2: fresh approach to it. And you know, the first charges
44:36
Speaker 2: I think that were preferred against Bundy was that of
44:41
Speaker 2: kidnapping in the Duran case. That's where it kind of begins.
44:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're exactly correct, big mistake. Bundy sells his
44:50
Speaker 1: VW to attain in Midvale, Utah. Police already suspicious of him,
44:55
Speaker 1: get the car and the FBI breaks it apart. They
44:58
Speaker 1: find hair matching samples from Kieren Campbell's body. They also
45:03
Speaker 1: id heirs transit seemed to be those of Carol Durrant
45:08
Speaker 1: and Melissa Smith. Then they put him in a lineup
45:12
Speaker 1: and Drank immediately identifies him as quote Officer roseland now
45:19
Speaker 1: Steven Lampley Peter Vronsky can, why don't you tell me
45:23
Speaker 1: why the victim who lived to you know, live through
45:26
Speaker 1: in attimpt to kidnapping. I d'd him as Officer Roseland.
45:31
Speaker 2: Well, here's some insight for us into just you know,
45:35
Speaker 2: he's not a genius, but he's very cunning. He has
45:39
Speaker 2: an animal like cunning. And so what Bundy had done
45:44
Speaker 2: in the Droan cases. He had stalked her into the
45:47
Speaker 2: parking lot of a shopping mall. He knew what kind
45:52
Speaker 2: of car she was driving, and then he followed her
45:55
Speaker 2: into the mall and approached her posing as a police officer,
46:00
Speaker 2: telling her that there appeared to be a break in
46:03
Speaker 2: in her car. He flashed a tiny fake badge when
46:08
Speaker 2: she asked him to see his identification again. He looked
46:12
Speaker 2: clean cut. There was nothing odd about him, and so
46:16
Speaker 2: she followed him out into the parking lot. He then
46:21
Speaker 2: lured her away from her car, telling her that he
46:25
Speaker 2: would like her to fill out a report that they
46:28
Speaker 2: had actually arrested the person who had attempted to break
46:32
Speaker 2: into her car. And and so she ended up following
46:35
Speaker 2: him into his own vehicle and and and that's when
46:41
Speaker 2: he tried to snap these handcuffs on her, and of
46:44
Speaker 2: course ended up putting both cuffs on her wrist, and
46:48
Speaker 2: she managed to flee, flee the vehicle, but you know,
46:52
Speaker 2: very slowly. That's how he would work. He would lure
46:57
Speaker 2: his victims in in that way. And here you had
47:01
Speaker 2: one that survived. And so we got, you know, some
47:04
Speaker 2: insight into actually how he worked, how he would gradually
47:10
Speaker 2: find a victim. He probably approached many women in that mall.
47:14
Speaker 2: Some refused perhaps to go with him. Here was one
47:18
Speaker 2: who followed, you know, a law buying citizen. You know,
47:21
Speaker 2: when someone comes to you and says, especially in the seventies,
47:25
Speaker 2: they're a police officer, they look like they could be
47:30
Speaker 2: one immediately kind of with a respect for authority. You
47:33
Speaker 2: know Salt Lake City, you know, in that region, people
47:40
Speaker 2: are more conservative, more respect of authority. So he used
47:45
Speaker 2: that to lure his victims.
47:47
Speaker 1: In that case, Stephen lamplay plays Vet, author of Outside
47:52
Speaker 1: Your Door on Amazon. Steven, how did Bundy manage to
47:59
Speaker 1: escape more than once?
48:01
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not familiar with the second escape. I do
48:04
Speaker 3: know he did escape twice. One of the times was
48:06
Speaker 3: when he wanted to act as his own attorney, and
48:10
Speaker 3: of course the judge allowed that in one of the conditions.
48:13
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know that Ted made the
48:15
Speaker 3: condition of the judge just you know, said take the
48:18
Speaker 3: cuffs off, take the lake shackles off, because he is
48:21
Speaker 3: now quote unquote an attorney. So Ted then wanted to
48:26
Speaker 3: research some information on his case and ask permission to
48:30
Speaker 3: use the law library or the library at the courthouse,
48:33
Speaker 3: which they granted. Well, he went behind a bookshelf that
48:37
Speaker 3: was obscured from view, lifted up the second floor window
48:40
Speaker 3: of the courthouse, and jumped and escaped that way. He
48:43
Speaker 3: was very cunning, very very as Peter said, a very
48:46
Speaker 3: cunning individual, very well organized, and very thoughtful.
48:49
Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing.
48:50
Speaker 3: Yeah.
48:51
Speaker 1: Well, he then ends up to in Florida and the
48:56
Speaker 1: infamous Fsu Cai Omegas House murders. You know, to Peter Vronsky,
49:04
Speaker 1: he graduates from getting a single victim to actually going
49:10
Speaker 1: in a sorority house and just going berserk. What happened
49:15
Speaker 1: at FSU Peter Well.
49:17
Speaker 2: Ted Bundy is by now disintegrating. He is no longer
49:23
Speaker 2: acting in that kind of organized way. He's just looking
49:27
Speaker 2: for victims at random. And so he comes onto this
49:30
Speaker 2: house on nearer campus or on campus, and he goes
49:37
Speaker 2: room to room, assaulting victims in those rooms, battering them
49:44
Speaker 2: on ahead with a club that he had found, you know,
49:49
Speaker 2: at random upon entering the building. So he's no longer
49:55
Speaker 2: the kind of organized, prepared serial killer. He's in the
49:59
Speaker 2: disintegrating state ages almost, you know, the way he kind
50:02
Speaker 2: of achieved his fantasy of getting into law school and
50:05
Speaker 2: then disintegrated. Here he achieved his fantasy of possessing victims,
50:12
Speaker 2: you know, becoming kind of a serial killer, but the
50:15
Speaker 2: fantasy and now was was no longer, you know, the
50:20
Speaker 2: reality wasn't as satisfying as the fantasy. So he batters
50:25
Speaker 2: all these victims in that room. He kills two, he
50:30
Speaker 2: seriously critically injures another, I think three other victims in
50:35
Speaker 2: that place. It's it's a mass attack, and it's it's
50:41
Speaker 2: completely at random, completely unplanned he leaves behind you know,
50:46
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence now and he'll kill one more
50:51
Speaker 2: time again. He'll he'll now snatch a young schoolgirl. There's
50:57
Speaker 2: a lot of witnesses because he's hanging around round you know,
51:01
Speaker 2: the school he had. He attempts uh to kidnap abduct
51:08
Speaker 2: another young woman, but her brother intervenes. So he's getting sloppy.
51:13
Speaker 2: He is disintegrating, which happens often with serial killers who
51:18
Speaker 2: are reaching that burnout stage when you know, when they
51:21
Speaker 2: realize that, uh, you know, their fantasies were much more
51:26
Speaker 2: satisfying than the reality and now what some may retire
51:32
Speaker 2: and you know, not commit a crime until you know,
51:35
Speaker 2: DNA evidence catches up to them, like the Green River
51:38
Speaker 2: killing or you know, the Golden State killer. Bundy is
51:42
Speaker 2: the other kind. He's the disintegrating kind. It's not that
51:46
Speaker 2: he wants to get caught. You know a lot of
51:49
Speaker 2: people think, well, you know, serial killers really want to
51:52
Speaker 2: get caught. It's not about that. It's a complete disintegration
51:56
Speaker 2: of his his relationship between his fantasies and the reality.
52:00
Speaker 2: And Bundy is disintegrating in Florida.
52:03
Speaker 1: Now, the interview that Ted Bundy gives very very revealing
52:12
Speaker 1: Bundy himself speaks too and exclusively to the focus on family.
52:18
Speaker 1: President James Dobson, Listen, are.
52:22
Speaker 6: You thinking about all those victims out there and their
52:26
Speaker 6: families while they are so wounded? You know years later
52:30
Speaker 6: their lives have not returned to normal, They will never
52:33
Speaker 6: returned to normal. Absolutely, are you carrying that load?
52:36
Speaker 2: That way?
52:37
Speaker 5: Is the remorse they are.
52:42
Speaker 1: Again.
52:44
Speaker 6: I know that people will accuse me of being self serving,
52:46
Speaker 6: but we're beyond that now. I mean, I'm just telling
52:48
Speaker 6: you how I feel. But through God's help, I've been
52:53
Speaker 6: able to come to the point where I've ended much
52:58
Speaker 6: too late, but better late to never feel it hurt
53:01
Speaker 6: and the pain that I am responsible for.
53:04
Speaker 2: Yes.
53:04
Speaker 6: Absolutely. In the past few days, myself and a number
53:08
Speaker 6: of investigators have been talking about unsolved cases murders that
53:14
Speaker 6: I was involved in. And it's hard to it's hard
53:18
Speaker 6: to talk about all these years later because it revives
53:20
Speaker 6: in me all those terrible feelings and those thoughts that
53:24
Speaker 6: I have steadfastly and a and and diligently dealt with
53:33
Speaker 6: and I think successfully with the love of God. And
53:37
Speaker 6: yet it's reopened that and I've felt the pain, and
53:39
Speaker 6: I've felt the horror again. Of all that, and I
53:43
Speaker 6: can only hope that those who I've harmed, those who
53:49
Speaker 6: I've caused so much grief, even if they don't believe
53:56
Speaker 6: my expression of saw and remorse, will believe what I'm
54:04
Speaker 6: saying now that there is loose in their towns and
54:09
Speaker 6: their communities, people like me today, whose dangerous impulses are
54:19
Speaker 6: being fueled day in and day out by violence in
54:24
Speaker 6: the media, in its various forums, particularly sexualized violence.
54:29
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy died in the Rayferl electric chair seven point
54:33
Speaker 1: sixteen am e st on January twenty fourth morning, another
54:40
Speaker 1: victim of notorious and might I say evil serial killer
54:47
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy has been named and connected to Bundy by DNA.
54:52
Speaker 1: Her name Laura and Amy. The Utah County Sheriff Mike
54:57
Speaker 1: Smith set at a news conference, we bring this case
55:01
Speaker 1: to a closure and more importantly, closure to the a
55:05
Speaker 1: May family. Okay, can I tell you something As a
55:08
Speaker 1: victim of violent crime, there is no closure. I just
55:12
Speaker 1: gave an interview, did an interview with mister Sean Hannity.
55:19
Speaker 1: He wanted to talk about why I became a prosecutor.
55:22
Speaker 1: And I will occasionally mention Keith's murder, my fiance's murder,
55:29
Speaker 1: but I do not like talking about it in depth.
55:32
Speaker 1: Since I spoke in that interview, I've had the worst
55:37
Speaker 1: dreams and horrible, horrible feelings having to relive that. I mean,
55:44
Speaker 1: I did it because I wanted to do it. So
55:47
Speaker 1: other crime victims see you can come out on the
55:49
Speaker 1: other end. But it proves the point all over again
55:52
Speaker 1: that there is no closure. Your life is forever changed.
55:57
Speaker 1: There's no going back. That said. I disagree with what
56:02
Speaker 1: the sheriff said, but yet I am so grateful to
56:06
Speaker 1: the Utah County Sheriff, Mike Smith for having this done,
56:11
Speaker 1: for finding the answer. I mean, it is one step
56:15
Speaker 1: to going forward. I don't mean closure, I mean taking
56:20
Speaker 1: another step in your life fifty one years later. Oh
56:26
Speaker 1: that poor family. Are there more Ted Bundy victims? I
56:31
Speaker 1: guarantee you the answer to that is yes, and we
56:36
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfalse Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off
56:42
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,