Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / How Corporate Volunteering Unlocks Leadership and Inclusion with Karlijn L'Ortye | Ep. 107

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How Corporate Volunteering Unlocks Leadership and Inclusion with Karlijn L'Ortye | Ep. 107 · Women Disrupting Tech

• 0:00
  Why? Why do you think the biggest,
• 0:02
  most successful companies all have foundations?
• 0:04
  Because they come to a point they want to do good with their
• 0:07
  money. And I think every entrepreneur,
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  how small or big you are, you can do that.
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  Use your time, talents and skills and it's more fun to just
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  give the money. Please still give money to the
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  NGOs, otherwise they won't exist anymore.
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  But you know, the foundation part and really the corporate
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  volunteering part we have to give more attention to.
• 0:38
  Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
• 0:40
  My name is Der Konopkas, and on this podcast I give the women
• 0:44
  who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
• 0:47
  each other. Join me on a journey into the
• 0:51
  world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
• 0:55
  to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
• 0:59
  In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
• 1:03
  Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
• 1:13
  Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to episode 107.
• 1:19
  Is there a business case for giving back through corporate
• 1:22
  volunteering? My guest in this episode
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  believes there is. In this episode, I'm joined by
• 1:28
  Carlene Lorti. She's a serial entrepreneur,
• 1:32
  leadership coach and the founder of MO the Movement.
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  Carlene started her first company aged just 22.
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  Since then, she spent over 15 years coaching executive teams
• 1:45
  and building purpose driven ventures.
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  Now she's on a mission to revolutionize corporate
• 1:52
  volunteering. In this episode of Women
• 1:55
  Disrupting Tech, Carlene and I talk about how AI connects
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  employee to causes that matter to them, how MO time that's
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  volunteering at work builds happier, more loyal teams, and
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  why smart companies are weaving social impact into their core
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  strategy. Carlene believes that there is a
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  business case for giving back through corporate volunteering.
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  She thinks it's a strategic tool that strengthens culture,
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  reduces attrition, and lowers hiring cost.
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  And as you'll find out, it even creates new business
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  opportunities. So when you're ready to listen
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  and learn how corporate volunteering unlocks leadership
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  and inclusion, please welcome to Women Disrupting Tech Carlene
• 2:44
  Lorti. So Caroline Lorti, welcome to
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  women disrupting tech. Good to have you.
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  A question I always ask at the start is how you got into your
• 2:54
  current job or current position and the floor is yours.
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  Thank you, dear Keon. Yeah, that's was in a very early
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  age actually. I've been an entrepreneur for 20
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  years now. So I really created the job, the
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  role I'm in at the moment. I started very young as an
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  entrepreneur, on the age of 11 actually.
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  My parents gave me the opportunity to make my own candy
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  shop, which was really nice and told me about profits and sales
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  and, you know, and eventually I went bankrupt.
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  But there was my first entrepreneurship experience.
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  So I was 22 when I started my first venture.
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  At that time I was working at the debt collection agency and I
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  saw a lot of entrepreneurs struggling with their time and
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  time management. We're talking about 2000 and
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  four, 2005 and getting things done was getting up.
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  I don't know if you heard a lot about time management.
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  So I started the Personal Assistance Bureau, which
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  actually was more of our factory, which shouldn't have
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  evolved as a training agency specialising in professional
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  organising. And then as I guided more and
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  more transformations and I dove into technology, it was an early
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  adopter of e-learning. Still have one of the best
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  selling E learnings on unit.com, which was really cool.
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  So and later on, I dived into organizational psychology.
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  So nowadays I'm running two ventures.
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  I started focused on employee volaturism, which uses AI.
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  We're going to talk about mostly and over for nowadays.
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  For more than 15 years I've been coaching teams and nowadays
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  there are more management executive teams.
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  Did you ever discover why you went bankrupt with the candy?
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  Shop as a child yes definitely I take.
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  I hate too many candies myself, so the.
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  The only person who got rich of that was your dentist.
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  Yeah, definitely. OK.
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  So what I was wondering about that, because you talked about
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  time management and, and, and you talked about working for a
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  collection agency. And maybe that's also a bit
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  returning a bit on the, on the theme of bankruptcy.
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  What are reasons for companies to go bankrupt?
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  Because for start-ups, there's, there's this standard reason
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  like like founder fallout and, and, and running out of cash.
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  What did you see working for this for the debt collection
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  agency? Yeah, So we go back that more
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  than 20 years, but I know, I guess my husband is still in
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  finance and he's a credit manager.
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  So I'm still up to current business.
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  But the most of the times the companies would take too much
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  risk, they end up with high that's, and they are always
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  optimistic about the next big thing or the next business or
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  the next thing. So even when you're running a
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  business for a long time and you're taking this like good
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  risks, then you can keep into business.
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  But most of the times the people and the, the entrepreneurs I
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  talk to at the debt collection agency were people too, too big,
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  too big of risks. And other than, and as you know,
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  in the USA, if you've got Bentrick bankrupt, you really
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  like, OK, you're experienced and you can go to the next one.
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  And so, you know, in the Netherlands is really a cross
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  behind her name. But still, I saw a lot of
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  entrepreneurs who keep trying and try and trying.
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  And they also got used to the system of the debt collections
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  in the Netherlands, which is really not that harsh in there
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  than in the, in the USA or other countries.
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  So you can really go on for a long, long time in the
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  Netherlands when even when you have debts.
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  And I don't think that's a really good thing.
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  As an entrepreneur now for 20 years, I know when I've
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  experienced that sometimes you just have to pull out a plug
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  when it's not working. When it's not, you know, you're
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  not getting the sales or that big thing isn't isn't coming.
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  So it's. How do you protect yourself from
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  overall optimism then? Yeah, because I I recognized the
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  the part about being really optimistic.
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  Yeah. And I think that's also trade
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  that even founders in the US have.
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  Yes, definitely. I think you need to be born with
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  that. I also.
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  Yeah, a little bit, yeah. Yeah, a little bit played.
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  Played before your heads. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  So. But how do you protect yourself
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  from being over optimistic? Yeah, to be for me, it's being
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  about being reflective, reflective on the things you're
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  doing. Every year I make a plan, I
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  reflect on the last year. I do that with the team.
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  And even when I was an entrepreneur for 15 years, I
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  wrote a little book which was called on their neighbors
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  lesson, lessons from an entrepreneur, entrepreneurship
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  lesson. And one of the most important
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  lessons were like, OK, stop when you got feeling says you have to
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  stop. And because we stopping a
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  business or stopping something, you're doing it most the hardest
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  thing to do it's it's easy to start and keep going.
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  That's stopping. You're smiling.
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  So you notice and a lot of the listeners know this.
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  So it was I wrote it down in this book and I only make 50
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  pieces of this book and I gave it to the best, my best friends
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  and family and people in business.
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  And they keep saying that to me. I gave that book in personal and
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  I said to them, please hold me on these lessons as as well
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  because I tend to keep going as well.
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  So you have to have the people around you help you remind this
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  and reflect yourself as well. So yeah, that's the way I do it.
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  And now you've started Mode Movement.
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  And Mode Movement is a company that uses AI to link companies
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  to volunteer work. Exactly.
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  Yeah, It's a matching platform for corporate volunteering.
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  Yeah. OK, so how did you come up with
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  the idea? Yeah, to, to, it's a good
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  question. I was director of an association
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  before in during COVID. And this association was the
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  associated Dutch association of board members and executive
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  members, executive boards, the NCD.
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  It's called the Dutch name. Also for anything for commercial
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  director. And as a director, I was able to
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  speak to a lot of board members, a lot of entrepreneurs and they
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  had a mouthful of corporate social responsibility.
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  But when I asked them if they do it volunteering themselves
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  because I'm, I grew up with doing volunteering as this is
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  normal as having a paid job. So I asked that and I got 2
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  answers. One was no, I'm so busy.
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  I work 80 hours. This is my responsibility.
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  But I do give them time to, you know, go on and do some
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  volunteering themselves or I support the sponsoring requests.
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  And the other one was the most busy, even the same busy
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  entrepreneur or, or a board member said, oh, you can ask me
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  for anything. So even if this volunteering
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  thing is like a short one or it's, it's very concrete, then
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  you can ask me and I'll do it or connect you to somebody who can
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  help you. And that triggered me.
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  I was like, OK, why isn't there a matching platform for courses,
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  for volunteering options for employees?
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  And they, it's a win, win win situation because the company
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  fills in their corporate social responsibility.
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  The employee can do the volunteering, which give them a
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  possibility to grow in skills building and NGO in this case is
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  held by a professional. So that like win, win, win
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  situation, I didn't find that yet when I was a director of the
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  NCD. So they're my entrepreneur
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  bloods become running and I had to stop this job and I quitted
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  in the beginning of 2023, used the first year 2023 to really do
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  the research. And guess because I'm a tech
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  savvy as you call that, I thought of a higher P how to
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  build this and flows or what's needed.
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  And AI was just upcoming. So from the moment it came up, I
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  was like, OK, I'm gonna use this.
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  I'm gonna use this for the text that I'm gonna use this for the
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  language because there's gonna be a bridge between NGOs and
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  companies. So all these ideas, so I made
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  this team of four, now five female students who were in a
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  traineeship. They did the traineeship with my
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  company, with MOD movement. And in that time we really had
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  to validate the idea. And I find an industrial, of
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  course, because you have to build this.
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  And I did have some money to invest myself, but I had to find
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  an investor. So this team really helped me to
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  get that, get that, get on paper and reach out to investors.
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  And during this 15 week program they did with me, with my
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  company, I found an investor and then we started building on a
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  local platform and we launched last year in February.
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  Cool. Yeah, I have.
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  I just because I'm, I'm reading a book, the go Giver and I just
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  have to ask now, did you see that people who were actively
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  volunteering, so board members who were actively volunteering
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  themselves that they were more successful than the ones who did
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  permit their employees to do whatever they pleased they
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  wanted to do, but didn't volunteer themselves.
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  Is there is there some correlation between success and
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  giving there? It begins with how you define
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  success, of course, of course. So it's a financial success or
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  you're successful as a company in your employer branding or
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  you're successful in getting the right talents on board.
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  So let's, let's say we say in a traditional way, financial
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  success. And there has been some research
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  on how volunteering really helps you with loyalty and people, the
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  employee satisfaction. And nowadays it's very, very
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  important because you want people to work for your company
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  to be loyal and happy and mental in a mental way healthy.
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  But coming back to the board member who does volunteering and
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  doesn't want volunteering, for example, the one who only gives
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  time or gives the sponsoring and the money, you see in the
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  company cultural of not doing coppers volunteering.
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  So even when they give time, maybe 20%, one on the five are
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  getting the time and doing the volunteering, but they already
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  did it themselves. They were like, oh, I get some
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  time off to do the volunteering. So that's nice, but it doesn't
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  give you like a new group of volunteers and even doesn't give
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  you the benefits of the employer branding because they see it's
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  like greenwashing, you know, it's, it's, it's that that thing
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  hangs around it. So when we go back to the other
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  director of the board who's doing the volunteering, they're
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  giving this good example. You see full a lot of more
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  enthusiasm and they because they, they experience
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  themselves, they can tell about it generally authentically.
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  And then you see people are inspired and you know, they want
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  to run harder and harder and harder.
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  So they're more connected toward the community and society and
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  therefore they get a lot of more sales opportunities.
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  I know there's a research that shows that corporate
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  volunteering increases your sales opportunities.
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  And I've seen it myself. One of my clients, which is a
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  tech company, they did volunteering for the Plastic
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  Soup Foundation and they're building an app for the Plastic
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  Soup Foundation at the moment, as I heard.
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  So they they turned the volunteerism into a sales
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  opportunity. Yeah, yeah.
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  OK, so in that sense there is a relationship between being
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  successful and giving time in this case.
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  Yeah, sometimes I've been asked to make the business case or
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  just show me in like what's the return on investment on
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  corporate volunteering and then I'm really going into HR.
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  So when people have, how do you call it for time they.
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  Yeah, that people who are not at a job.
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  At the yeah, yes. And if you have a percent, it's
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  all 5%. If you can just roam off like
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  1%, how much will that save? And you will really dive into a
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  few of these employee journeys, touch points because
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  volunteering can really help. Volunteering can help in
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  onboarding, in team bonding. It can help.
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  And people go on, you know, pension, you know, and then just
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  to roll out, that's a very good thing.
• 16:32
  Yeah, because then then they all of a sudden of course do have
• 16:36
  more time and then they, But I was wondering is, does it also
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  help to get, let's say, Gen. Z on board?
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  Because they're much more let's aware of we need to do things
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  together and also that they are much more, I think into purpose.
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  Purpose and volunteering. Yes, that's what that's a bias
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  we have. Let's start with that because
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  I'm doubting it since I've been in the business now for two
• 17:08
  years. My like, I call it the founding
• 17:12
  team, the trainees, they were all Gemzy.
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  So I pitched this. I didn't pitch the idea they
• 17:17
  wrote into my company for their training, but there are.
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  I was like, OK, are you here because you want to do purpose
• 17:24
  thrift and work or do you want to make a positive impact?
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  And they were like, yeah, we want to contribute to the world
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  only when it's real and authentic and measurable.
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  So they were really clear about this.
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  So and during this journey of motor movement, I see that GNC
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  has two sides. They don't want to work full
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  time because they're like their work life balance is more
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  important than other generations.
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  Even if the organizations give you one day off for
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  volunteering, for example, Athos in the Netherlands, you work for
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  five days, One day is for your personal development,
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  volunteers, etcetera. Not everybody once said because
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  they still want to do the four day, four day work week.
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  That's on one hand and on the other hand they want to make an
• 18:17
  impact. But in in a lot of different
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  ways. So not only through your
• 18:22
  employer, but through a lot of like communities, smaller
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  communities. And one thing they all and I
• 18:29
  think every generation has in common, but most in Gen.
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  C is that it has to be personalized.
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  If it's not really specially for you and you are special and
• 18:38
  central of the world, and I'll make it a little bit bigger, you
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  know, then they're not going to act.
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  They're not going to be motivated to do if it's.
• 18:47
  Just. It has to match and really a
• 18:50
  matching thing that resonates with the Gen.
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  Z. OK, so let's pick up on that in
• 18:56
  a minute. 111 observation you had about the five day working
• 19:01
  week and then having the 5th day for personal development.
• 19:05
  I know that at least for my girlfriend at ING, they have
• 19:09
  what is called Mastery Day. So they have one day a week that
• 19:13
  you can spend on whatever you feel like.
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  Is it an IG as well? One day a week.
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  Yeah, that's how I understand it.
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  However, in practice this means that you end up working on work,
• 19:29
  not on volunteering or anything else.
• 19:32
  Yeah, sometimes you do. Let's say there is a bit of time
• 19:36
  to do training. So the, the conferences, the the
• 19:40
  E learnings, the skill building will happen on that day because
• 19:46
  it's that people feel they can defend.
• 19:51
  So that puts me to my question, how, how do you look at or how
• 19:56
  can companies facilitate this better that people do not
• 20:00
  necessarily spend their time at on work on those days, rather
• 20:06
  spend it on volunteering and maybe all in as a result.
• 20:10
  Also I think in skill building because I did too.
• 20:14
  Volunteer gigs in the last 10 years myself and in both I
• 20:20
  learned a lot in one about running a store and about
• 20:25
  ingredients of bread which may not be.
• 20:30
  Used order 3. To me it brings me knowledge
• 20:34
  about food, which I think is important, and the other it gave
• 20:39
  me a sense of what it takes to run sponsoring at an athletics
• 20:45
  club. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  It brings a lot. But before to to get there and
• 20:52
  really give your time, spend your time on this and even on
• 20:56
  during work time because sometimes I get the people say
• 20:59
  to me, so it's not volunteering because the people were doing
• 21:02
  this. The entries are paid, yes.
• 21:04
  And they're saying yes, it's Pvt. it's paid volunteering
• 21:07
  time. But without this, they wouldn't
• 21:10
  do it at all. So let's start with that.
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  So when I'm when we get to into the companies who want to go on
• 21:17
  this corporate volunteering strategy and really want to do
• 21:20
  it professional, we have developed a maturity model.
• 21:24
  And in this maturity model, we look at, OK, what stage are you
• 21:28
  as a company looking at the corporate volunteering.
• 21:32
  And then we within these stages, we have 5 topics we touch its
• 21:36
  first, leadership. We already start talking about
• 21:39
  leadership. It's very, very important that
• 21:41
  the leaders show their intrinsic motivation to do a corporate
• 21:48
  social responsibility activities.
• 21:51
  And walk the talk. Walk the talk.
• 21:53
  That's really what's what about it and show it, showcase it.
• 21:58
  And sometimes they're like, oh, no, I don't want to show it.
• 22:01
  But it has to be inspiring, has to they have to see that the
• 22:05
  leaders are doing it as well. So let's start with a leader.
• 22:08
  Then the second one is the culture.
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  So what is the culture within a company and mostly in finance,
• 22:14
  what I see it's like it's was more of our business.
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  Every hour you don't spend on the core business, it costs
• 22:22
  money. So when it's a culture of your
• 22:25
  hours are expensive and you spend that and you spend the
• 22:28
  expensive hours on the NGO and in the end they, and I see them
• 22:33
  validating that actually by the time they, for example, they
• 22:37
  spent 10 hours and they're like, OK, my hour rate is 90 hours.
• 22:41
  So I spent already €900 to this NGO and this NGO is like, I
• 22:47
  don't calculate like that. So in the second part in
• 22:51
  culture, we really get the conversation about how do you
• 22:54
  think about your time, valuing your time and spending their
• 22:59
  time on your own skill building, like exactly how you experienced
• 23:03
  it. So it is more than investing
• 23:06
  just time, it's investing in community and yourself and the
• 23:10
  company. So that's the win, win, win I
• 23:12
  talked about. So the trick I think then is not
• 23:16
  to, let's say, keep score on the on the hours you spent.
• 23:21
  No, just. Due to well, it's, it's a bit
• 23:24
  difficult to to say that to a CFOI know from experience, but
• 23:29
  yeah, to just say, OK, this will pay back and sometimes it will
• 23:34
  pay back in business opportunities.
• 23:36
  And then it's like really clear. So I well quote UN quote
• 23:39
  invested €900 in volunteering and as a result I can I get to
• 23:46
  build an app worth 900 or I don't know how much they charge
• 23:52
  nowadays. Yeah.
• 23:54
  And that is really clear. Then then you're like a no
• 23:56
  brain, OK, Of course you should do that, you know, but it's not
• 24:00
  always that clear. You have quality qualitative
• 24:03
  results and quantitative results.
• 24:05
  So you, the things you can feel or sense or you you can't
• 24:08
  measure and things you can measure.
• 24:10
  So in this culture conversation, we're talking about, OK, are you
• 24:14
  more on the measurable results or are you more on the yeah,
• 24:18
  like the tangible, the failure ball results.
• 24:22
  But that's, that's also, we have leadership culture, then we have
• 24:25
  programs. If you don't have a clear
• 24:27
  program or a few NGOs or activities pointed out, you have
• 24:34
  to have a range of possibilities.
• 24:37
  Because if you say you get time off like one day every quarter,
• 24:41
  four days a year, go ahead, then people don't act.
• 24:45
  You have to make it easy for them and then the program comes
• 24:49
  in and even though you have a program, it's not fitting
• 24:53
  everybody. So we help with that as well.
• 24:56
  Next one is resources. Very, very important if you
• 24:59
  don't allocate resources and even if we're doing the
• 25:03
  volunteering itself, let's dive into a little bit of what kind
• 25:06
  of volunteering opportunities there are.
• 25:09
  I point out three things you do by hands, like painting or
• 25:13
  gardening or that kind of stuff, the things you do by hands.
• 25:17
  So for example, web development, social media content, writing,
• 25:22
  that kind of stuff and the things you do by heart, so being
• 25:26
  a body or social activities. And there's always the
• 25:30
  combinations of things, let's say those three things for the
• 25:35
  things we do by hand, you really need a little bit of a budget to
• 25:39
  help them. Or for example, you have these
• 25:42
  baking pancakes day days, then you would have to come up with
• 25:46
  as a company with the ingredients for it and the the
• 25:49
  sanitation, etcetera. So the allocation of resources
• 25:53
  is very important and we dive into that as well.
• 25:56
  And also we have different levels in that.
• 25:59
  And the last one is communication.
• 26:02
  If you don't communicate in a, in a consistent way that people
• 26:07
  don't know it's this, you know, most of the times it's a big
• 26:10
  secret and they don't know what people are doing within a
• 26:13
  company on volunteering. So a communication is very
• 26:17
  important that you have insights, people, what people
• 26:19
  are doing, how they spend their time, what they're learning.
• 26:23
  We do even have leader boards because people are a bit
• 26:27
  competitive. So when we dive into those five
• 26:31
  categories, then we measure their maturity and then we know
• 26:36
  if the platform is a solution or it's more consulting, first
• 26:40
  consulting and then afterwards platform.
• 26:43
  OK. So the maturity levels are more
• 26:47
  sort of maturity towards being a suitable customer.
• 26:53
  Yeah, or more like how are they on their journey to create
• 26:57
  movements and companies called mode movements?
• 27:02
  Because the companies, the clients, they have to create
• 27:05
  their own movements. And MO stands for like you have
• 27:08
  me time, it's time for yourself and MO time it's time for
• 27:11
  another. So when we talk about corporate
• 27:13
  volunteering, which is a mouthful, we say MO time.
• 27:17
  So how about your MO time and your the way you fill in your
• 27:21
  corporate social responsibility? OK.
• 27:24
  So is it tied in any way, shape or form to the, let's say, the
• 27:27
  UN global? Yeah.
• 27:29
  The SDG Sustainable Development Goals, yes, it definitely has
• 27:33
  this framework in it on both sides.
• 27:35
  So the company chooses a few SDGS that they want to
• 27:40
  collaborate on, they're focused on and when an NGO on boards,
• 27:45
  which it can do all by themselves, we do have some
• 27:47
  checks and balances. So all the NGOs on the platform
• 27:50
  are well checked and we have API with the CBF, which is a company
• 27:55
  in the Netherlands who checks the finance registers of the
• 27:59
  NGOs. But we also do the check on SCGS
• 28:02
  and we help them define the SCGS.
• 28:05
  For example, we have really small organization who is
• 28:09
  focusing on like for for children, you know, and they're
• 28:15
  very low local organized, they're not working with SC GS.
• 28:20
  We have an AI tool which scans their website or their
• 28:24
  information and they get the suggestion, these are the SD GS
• 28:28
  you were working on. And we use that as a framework
• 28:30
  as well. So an organized organization can
• 28:33
  say, OK, we have only collaborated on those or only do
• 28:36
  volunteering times on the these SD GS and then we show in the
• 28:39
  platform only those organizations connected to those
• 28:42
  SD GS. OK, so that I think is a nice
• 28:46
  little bridge into the matching. Yeah.
• 28:51
  So you use AI to do matching, right?
• 28:55
  Yeah, at first we do the AI on the language.
• 28:59
  So you have to imagine it is a matching platform.
• 29:03
  So you have to have courses, you have to have something to match
• 29:07
  on. So when an NGO wants to do once
• 29:11
  a volunteer for a certain project, they often don't know.
• 29:15
  They know, OK, we know where to aim for, we know our purpose.
• 29:20
  But how can we use these people from those big companies?
• 29:23
  Because most of the times there are the corporates who already
• 29:26
  have these hours to fight. And yeah, so they'll go on onto
• 29:30
  the platform and they just fill out their websites and the
• 29:34
  system gives a possibility of the text about this
• 29:38
  organization. And then they fill out a project
• 29:42
  or something they aim for. And with AI we make it text.
• 29:46
  So we it's really Co creating the text for the course for the
• 29:51
  legacy on the platform. OK, so this is sort of, let's
• 29:54
  say a ChatGPT type of thingy where you use similar
• 30:00
  functionality to create those texts.
• 30:03
  Exactly. It's already built in and what
• 30:06
  the next? That's the first thing because
• 30:08
  you then you have like a, yeah, consistent way of presenting the
• 30:13
  causes, which is very important because when you're an employee
• 30:17
  of let's say ING and you go into the platform, you don't want to
• 30:21
  just search through a database of now not well defined causes.
• 30:27
  So that's one thing. And the next thing we take out
• 30:31
  the interests and the skills you need for this course.
• 30:36
  And then the matching goes on the the profiles of the
• 30:40
  employees. So when you're on board as an
• 30:42
  employee, you fill out your interests and your skills and
• 30:45
  it's only like a like a skill set of 24 skills you can find
• 30:51
  and we take it out. Sort sort of Scrape the LinkedIn
• 30:54
  profile, for instance. Oh, that's that's on our road
• 30:56
  map. OK, I really want to do the
• 30:59
  because. That that is an easy way to to
• 31:02
  look at really skills and also to validate skills that people
• 31:05
  have. So they.
• 31:06
  Don't BSU. But there is one bias behind
• 31:10
  that because you and I, we're an entrepreneurs and we use
• 31:13
  LinkedIn like I, I use LinkedIn daily basis, yeah.
• 31:17
  Me too. When you just dive into the
• 31:19
  employee, the employees, sometimes they don't use it,
• 31:24
  yeah, less active and they're not accurate and even sometimes
• 31:28
  they don't have a LinkedIn profile.
• 31:29
  So we, we started really with this simple onboarding flow.
• 31:33
  But yeah, there will be, there will be soon a day that we we
• 31:38
  implement LinkedIn too as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:42
  Because then then yeah, I hear you on on the that not every
• 31:47
  employee has his LinkedIn updated and complete, especially
• 31:53
  the the completeness is a thing. Fortunately.
• 31:57
  Most young employees do have LinkedIn, except for two that I
• 32:01
  mentioned recently who just said, OK, we're not going to be
• 32:04
  on LinkedIn because we don't think jobs are there.
• 32:09
  There's also possibly there are a lot of, you know, biases about
• 32:13
  LinkedIn. But yeah, for this platform,
• 32:18
  security is, is is very, very important privacy.
• 32:22
  So we also want to make sure your employer gives you the
• 32:27
  opportunity to do volunteering and you are the owner of the
• 32:30
  data of your account in the in the platform.
• 32:34
  So we get also get of a possibility that to make your
• 32:38
  own resume of volunteering within the platform.
• 32:42
  So when you apply for a move, we call every cause a move because
• 32:46
  you move to your movements. So when you apply for a move,
• 32:49
  the NGO cannot see your name or profile picture because we want
• 32:53
  to be very inclusive on this. So before accepting you, don't
• 32:56
  you only see the resume or your motivation to do this
• 33:02
  volunteering or just only I want to do something?
• 33:05
  How did you why did you decide to do this?
• 33:08
  Yeah, that's really something our my Gen.
• 33:11
  Z founding team came up with. They were like, OK, you I don't
• 33:15
  want the NGO to see the name or profile picture because they can
• 33:18
  be, you know, discriminating on. I don't want this guy or this
• 33:22
  girl or this, you know, we only. Want middle-aged white guys or
• 33:26
  we don't want middle-aged white guys?
• 33:29
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 33:30
  So then they get the same volunteers or the same people
• 33:34
  and from their own bubble. And just when we want to break
• 33:37
  out the bubbles to be inclusive, only after accepting this
• 33:42
  employee on the job, you get to see the name and the profile
• 33:46
  picture and the contact information.
• 33:48
  Yeah, that's cool because that takes out a lot of bias from the
• 33:53
  on the on the hiring part. Definitely, yeah, definitely.
• 33:57
  And it's in the same time it's scary for the NGOs because they
• 34:01
  are a very close community most of the time.
• 34:05
  And within just dive a little bit into this NGO.
• 34:09
  There are a few levels of volunteers.
• 34:12
  You, you know, you know, the diehards who are there every
• 34:16
  week, they own this association, their own this, this, this NGO.
• 34:21
  And then do we have this layer of people we're doing like on a
• 34:25
  regular basis, but not from, from the, the core.
• 34:29
  And we have the people who just fly in and they, for them, they
• 34:33
  are the lowest on the hierarchy. So what we really have to no and
• 34:39
  and and manage of expectation is that if an employee comes into
• 34:44
  this NGO, he's not the same. For example, he's a manager at
• 34:48
  this finance or this corporate. You just go in, in, in the, in
• 34:53
  the ladder of volunteering on the lowest step, but you're
• 34:57
  there for one job and you have to do that job very well.
• 35:00
  And then we validate this job or we measure the impact on this
• 35:05
  job. So yeah, we do a lot of
• 35:09
  communication about expectations.
• 35:11
  OK, Yeah. So, but so how does this work?
• 35:15
  Let's say I'm a director of a company and I I have a special
• 35:21
  skill set. Usually directors and especially
• 35:23
  managers are more are good at managing people.
• 35:27
  So how do you match that type of person to volunteering then?
• 35:33
  Because usually that what their comfort zone at least will be
• 35:37
  something similar. And I can imagine that managers
• 35:44
  typically have that type of profile where yes, you want to
• 35:51
  deploy them, but you want to use their capabilities to the Max.
• 35:59
  How do you do that? Because there you just said they
• 36:02
  are starting, let's say on the lowest flight on the of the
• 36:07
  ladder. Yeah, yeah, within these this
• 36:10
  NGO and they bring all those capabilities and their skills
• 36:15
  and they have to, you know, get the trust at 1st and then do
• 36:19
  those things. But they can come there for this
• 36:22
  move for this cause. So, yeah, I, I can really
• 36:26
  imagine why and how you ask this question.
• 36:29
  And no movement. It's, we are a little bit
• 36:34
  struggling with this as well, to be honest, because we have a lot
• 36:37
  of different moves on the platform, as I said, by hand,
• 36:41
  heart and head. So sometimes you're not able to,
• 36:46
  to set these skills into where to use the skills in one, to
• 36:50
  move one move. But for example, this manager is
• 36:53
  very good at managerial things. He can do team activities.
• 36:57
  So for example, with the elderly phones, other phones, they can
• 37:01
  go out with a few a group of elderly people and organize it
• 37:05
  and manage it and you know, take care of the group.
• 37:09
  This is one of the possibilities.
• 37:11
  But since this person is not known by this organization, they
• 37:16
  don't often trust that person with this, this skills.
• 37:19
  So it's not about trust and communication and get to know
• 37:22
  each other. And then, you know, you arise
• 37:26
  fast in this letter. You know it will go fast, but
• 37:29
  you have to be aware that you're in a new organization.
• 37:32
  They don't know you. You have to build trust.
• 37:34
  And and that's also a good thing because you're out of your
• 37:37
  bubble where people always listen to you listen between,
• 37:40
  you know, people that's if you listen this way.
• 37:44
  Get to give some sense of direction to others.
• 37:48
  Exactly. So yeah, getting I think it's
• 37:50
  more important to get out of your bubble and then develop
• 37:54
  also the skills I'm not using every day.
• 37:58
  Yeah, yeah. OK.
• 38:00
  In that sense, it's actually yes, I think it's really good
• 38:03
  because they also they get to experience what the workplace
• 38:07
  looks like from let's say, different perspective than just
• 38:12
  a managerial 1. They can feel it.
• 38:15
  Yeah, you can really. And I would think they can then
• 38:19
  more relate. Do you see that back in, I don't
• 38:22
  know if you've done any research on that, but do you see that
• 38:25
  back in results of companies as well?
• 38:30
  Because we talked about successor and one of the ways to
• 38:33
  define success is that your organization works better
• 38:36
  because there's more empathy between leadership and quote UN
• 38:41
  quote regular employees. Yes, yeah, it it definitely
• 38:45
  there's there's the especially from the US and UK, there's been
• 38:50
  research on how the culture is changing and empathy is always
• 38:55
  mentioned. So when you do volunteering and
• 38:59
  you really come out your of your corporate bubble, you see more
• 39:02
  of community and most of the times you do things with groups
• 39:07
  you that often work with, you're more happy with your own life.
• 39:13
  You're, you know, you're more thankful and for the fact you're
• 39:17
  more thankful you you have more empathy on people who don't have
• 39:21
  that much as you do. For example, there was a group
• 39:26
  doing volunteering for a company and the HR gave back to me that
• 39:30
  before a few people asked for a bigger lease car like every
• 39:35
  quarter. And after they did the
• 39:37
  volunteering, they're like, OK, I'm very happy with what I have.
• 39:41
  I don't have to drive the bigger car this there's.
• 39:45
  A change of perspective does magic.
• 39:48
  Definitely, definitely. And it doesn't work on
• 39:50
  everybody. Disclaimer here, but you know,
• 39:53
  it is doing a lot with the common sense.
• 39:58
  Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I, I really believe
• 40:01
  that you can make a very, very good business case out of it.
• 40:05
  I even calculated for a company with 50 employees that the
• 40:09
  return investment is within a year.
• 40:12
  So when you invest in. Good leadership, culture,
• 40:17
  resources, programs and communication and a good
• 40:19
  platform just to get good, get good insights and use automation
• 40:26
  for it. Then you can get back your money
• 40:29
  like within one year, yeah. That's pretty fast.
• 40:33
  That's a pretty good ROI period, I would say.
• 40:36
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. But there, John, there's one
• 40:40
  thing we didn't, I didn't mention yet, but it is very
• 40:43
  important nowadays. And I have to be, you know, I am
• 40:47
  optimistic, optimistic. But nowadays the wind blows from
• 40:51
  another direction and, you know, as a podcast maker on diversity,
• 40:55
  you know definitely what is going on from the other side.
• 41:00
  Of the ocean, our friends, so. Yes, it is.
• 41:05
  Nowadays for most companies and the bigger companies, the focus
• 41:09
  on securing their baseline, securing people to stay in the
• 41:14
  company, curing their sales processes.
• 41:18
  So the focus on philanthropy and volunteering is not that big for
• 41:25
  now. It was like last year and the
• 41:28
  year before and it's growing every year.
• 41:30
  But now we see a dip. They're like, OK, so for
• 41:33
  example, the companies wanted to start with Corpus volunteering.
• 41:36
  They say, OK, we just move that after summer, summer, or we do
• 41:39
  that next year or and I'm like, that's not good.
• 41:44
  It's so short term thoughts. You have to be a long term on
• 41:48
  this one. Is it also about language?
• 41:53
  In what way? Well, the thing that struck me a
• 41:56
  bit is I did discussion last week and we talked about this as
• 42:03
  well. This lady told me, well, there's
• 42:07
  a lot that is shifting, but not really shifting.
• 42:13
  So there are still the EI, there are still inclusion, there are
• 42:16
  still room for all kinds of things that create a culture,
• 42:21
  but we don't emphasize it. So if I could, to your point, I
• 42:25
  can understand that if you're you're when you're about to
• 42:28
  launch a program, they're sort of pushing it out in time.
• 42:35
  But I would think that corporations who already have
• 42:40
  this, do you need a policy by the way, for this or can you
• 42:43
  just get started like, hey. You can definitely get started
• 42:48
  and if you're listening and you know entrepreneur, you have a
• 42:50
  team of let's say 1010 employees, you can definitely
• 42:54
  get started and just reach out. Every municipality has its own
• 43:00
  volunteering center initiative, so you can can do it right away.
• 43:05
  But if you want to do it more professionally and you want to
• 43:08
  do reporting on its integrated reporting, which was like the
• 43:13
  CSRD was also like this very good motivator on doing this.
• 43:19
  We deliver a dashboard with CRD ready information, but but you
• 43:24
  don't have to be on the highest level of the maturity model when
• 43:28
  you just start. It's just a talk and just go and
• 43:32
  experience it yourself. And if you want to do more, we
• 43:34
  can help with the policy and the automation, etcetera.
• 43:38
  OK, that that that was my follow up question.
• 43:40
  Do you also help with, let's say, creating a policy where at
• 43:44
  least a framework around it? Yes, yes.
• 43:47
  And it depends on the culture and the and the leadership team
• 43:51
  and how important is it and do you want to have a partnership
• 43:55
  with 1-2 or three NGOs or is everybody eligible to to just go
• 44:01
  everywhere that I have which is validated in the platform or
• 44:05
  more than that? For example, you do, I heard you
• 44:09
  was talking about volunteering in sports and a lot of a lot of
• 44:14
  people do that on The Saturdays, on the soccer teams, etcetera.
• 44:19
  So is that volunteering you want to do from your company
• 44:23
  perspective? I don't know.
• 44:24
  We have to talk about it. We just have to have to speak
• 44:27
  out. And some companies are very
• 44:28
  supportive and and they do a lot of volunteering in the in the
• 44:33
  sports sector. So yeah, yeah.
• 44:35
  So policy can really help on this.
• 44:37
  OK. So you talked about let's say
• 44:41
  these initiative being pushed out in time, being postponed.
• 44:46
  You also see the funding of it, or not so much.
• 44:51
  No, at the moment we, we don't have an outstanding question for
• 44:57
  funding. So I've, I've been talking to
• 44:59
  Nest, I was in when I talk. It was in the end of last year.
• 45:04
  I talked to a group of investors and we've made some like
• 45:08
  agreements on when is the next phase etcetera.
• 45:11
  So I'm not seeing any postponed investments in it because you
• 45:17
  know. How about on a on on the company
• 45:21
  level, so on the clients? Yeah, Yeah, that is postponed.
• 45:25
  That is definitely postponed. Yeah, Yeah.
• 45:28
  But there are. Less funding going there because
• 45:32
  they want to quote, UN quote, focus on the business.
• 45:35
  Yes, Yeah, that's happening there, yeah.
• 45:38
  So let me ask you, what if I gave you a mic in front of 100
• 45:43
  or maybe 1000 employers and they were a bit like, yeah, we're a
• 45:50
  bit scared of the economics, which I fully understand.
• 45:54
  What? Why would why should they focus
• 45:58
  on more volunteering right now? Yeah, exactly now.
• 46:03
  Exactly now when? Everyone is pushing it out.
• 46:06
  Yeah, exactly. Now I would read.
• 46:08
  I would just go on the emotional way.
• 46:10
  I would like, OK, do you have children?
• 46:12
  We have grandchildren. And and I would start with it
• 46:16
  takes a village to raise a child.
• 46:18
  And they know that community and society is very, very important.
• 46:22
  And with individualism, but nowadays at polarization, we
• 46:27
  really need each other. So I would go on that way and I
• 46:30
  will say like, OK, if you want to do, I want to do goods and
• 46:33
  you have a company and you want to be there for your children,
• 46:37
  grandchildren even further, you have to act today because if you
• 46:41
  only turn 1% that will be mined out from 10 years from now.
• 46:48
  So just start with giving this time, doing it yourself, act on
• 46:56
  at least one day a year doing good activities and it had don't
• 47:00
  has to be that big, but just start with it and you will
• 47:03
  experience yourself. So starting today will change
• 47:08
  the future for your children and for your grandchildren and
• 47:11
  further because we need each other.
• 47:14
  So I will talk to them. And if I can add to that,
• 47:18
  there's also still the business case.
• 47:20
  There. Your attrition will be lower,
• 47:23
  your culture will be better, your absenteeism will be lower.
• 47:28
  Your sick leave will be lower because people are generally
• 47:32
  happier. People want to work with you.
• 47:35
  You get the best talent you had. A hiring cost will be lower.
• 47:39
  There is a very, very strong business case, but you have to
• 47:43
  look over this one. And philanthropy is not soft at
• 47:48
  all. It can be a really good, good
• 47:50
  business case. Yes, and many successful many
• 47:55
  successful people in the business world are also good
• 47:59
  philanthropist. Why?
• 48:01
  Why do you think the biggest, most successful companies all
• 48:04
  have foundations? Because they come to a point
• 48:07
  they want to do good with their money.
• 48:09
  And I think every entrepreneur, how small or big you are, you
• 48:12
  can't do that. Use your time, talents and
• 48:15
  skills, and it's more fun to just give the money.
• 48:18
  Please still give money to NGOs, otherwise they won't exist
• 48:21
  anymore. But you know, the foundation
• 48:23
  part and really the corporate volunteering part, we have to
• 48:27
  get more attention to it. Yeah.
• 48:29
  It's also a great way to legacy, by the way.
• 48:32
  Definitely, Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:34
  And, and I don't know about you, but me, I'm more thrived by
• 48:38
  experiences than, for example, for money.
• 48:41
  And of course, we do have to have money and our own safety
• 48:44
  and every lower the ladder. There's no room for, you know, a
• 48:49
  purpose and all those things. But, you know, if you had
• 48:51
  already climbed the muscle of pyramids, then just give more.
• 48:56
  Yeah. Sounds like a great place to
• 48:59
  move to. My last couple of questions.
• 49:03
  I was wondering about one thing I I just have to ask this
• 49:06
  because you were a director at the NCD.
• 49:10
  So my podcast is about women in tech and more broadly about
• 49:16
  inclusion. But I think it dies nicely into
• 49:20
  volunteering. How can supervisory board
• 49:24
  members support the business that they're supervising on both
• 49:30
  the inclusion and on the on doing more good parts?
• 49:36
  Yeah, yeah. In supervisory boards, the only
• 49:40
  thing you can do, and it's lesson 1, when you're doing a
• 49:43
  governance training, ask very, very good questions.
• 49:49
  So you can do anything in operations, you have to sit on
• 49:53
  your hands. So the really thing you have to
• 49:55
  be good at as a supervisory board member is ask good
• 49:58
  questions. So first come to inclusion, look
• 50:01
  at yourself, reflects on the board you're in.
• 50:05
  How inclusive is your board there?
• 50:06
  It starts, you know, they say the tone at the top and yes,
• 50:09
  that is really happening. So do you want to talk yourself?
• 50:13
  Is, is your board inclusive? Then when you look at the
• 50:18
  organization you're supervising, then you ask the questions about
• 50:23
  inclusion. How do you make sure you're not
• 50:26
  biased on your sales process or your hiring process?
• 50:30
  You can all ask these questions, but you have to reflect on
• 50:33
  yourself constantly. And I think that is one of the
• 50:35
  things we we said in the pre conversation of Boys and Girls
• 50:40
  Network. And I'm going to call out it's,
• 50:42
  but it's not. Yeah, it's still a little bit
• 50:44
  there, but you know, we are crashing it down.
• 50:47
  And even every time I say it, she would say it.
• 50:50
  On the supervisory board level, I think at least for the really
• 50:54
  big companies on the Stock Exchange, it's mandatory to have
• 50:58
  a sort of at least 30% women on the supervisory board.
• 51:04
  Yeah, Yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is necessary.
• 51:07
  Do you see? That trickling down, by the way,
• 51:10
  in not yet. No, no, the FEMA board index
• 51:13
  which comes out every year, it is growing, which is so slow,
• 51:17
  it's going so slow. And they say, oh, we can't find
• 51:20
  these women, which is bullshit, I'm sorry, but they are there
• 51:23
  and they're also doing these governance trainings and, and
• 51:28
  they are a member of the NCD and they, you can find it at SER top
• 51:32
  flower in the Netherlands. So they are there, but.
• 51:35
  How can we promote that these women are getting on the bigger
• 51:41
  boards? They have to stand out and be
• 51:46
  visible because like let's say like 20 years ago, like 15 to 20
• 51:53
  years ago, it was normal supervisory board.
• 51:55
  You'll be asked for the position.
• 51:57
  So do you have this yet? You really need this old boys
• 52:00
  and girls network to be on and then your supervisory board
• 52:04
  there anyway, ask for the next one.
• 52:05
  And you're again with that one. And, you know, it's like a close
• 52:09
  system. Yeah.
• 52:10
  Circle. Yeah.
• 52:13
  And to open it, you have to get into it first and then open it
• 52:17
  from the inside. But to get into the circle,
• 52:20
  which is still invisible, but it is there, you have to stand out.
• 52:26
  You have to be there. You be online in LinkedIn, you
• 52:30
  have to talk to people, you're going to events, you have to do
• 52:33
  intervision, you have to go to these trainings.
• 52:36
  And that that's really one thing you have to invest in.
• 52:40
  And even the man does do have to invest to want to go into this
• 52:44
  circle. So and women don't often like to
• 52:50
  show themselves, you know, like to bargain.
• 52:54
  How do you say how do you say that?
• 52:56
  Like you know about their skills and like, OK, I can do this.
• 53:00
  I want to be on that board. I'm I'm already seeing myself on
• 53:03
  that board are not like that. And more men are more like that.
• 53:06
  So they're more in the picture. Yeah.
• 53:10
  So what they can do? Yeah, that's the thing.
• 53:12
  What can they do? They have to search on not on
• 53:16
  their first range. The people are already in the
• 53:19
  boards, not in the first range of first network, but in the
• 53:21
  second one. And how you can do that?
• 53:24
  OK, you normally would ask, or let's say you would ask Lisa,
• 53:28
  and which is already a woman, you're like, OK, the man in the
• 53:32
  board, like, OK, we want Lisa. And then you ask Lisa.
• 53:35
  OK, Lisa, if normally would ask you where you were really good,
• 53:39
  good fit, but Lisa, who do you know who wants to be as in a
• 53:42
  board as well. So just use your first network
• 53:46
  to also reach out to the second network because maybe it's not
• 53:50
  that easy for you to reach out to Peter as a carline.
• 53:54
  Let's see. Let's see.
• 53:55
  I'm going to contact of Lisa. I can't reach out Peter in the
• 53:59
  which is more any board. But Lisa knows me and she is
• 54:02
  doing FOC for me. So that's really how it works.
• 54:06
  So women advocating for women is important.
• 54:09
  That's what I'm hearing you say. And second thing what I'm
• 54:13
  hearing, I was just wondering, would it help to?
• 54:17
  And this of course, has to do with the rosters that are there
• 54:21
  because people can only be renewed so many times and then
• 54:25
  they need to replace, be replaced, but those replacements
• 54:28
  also follow a schedule. But it's one of the tricks also
• 54:33
  then not hiring one female supervisory board member, but
• 54:39
  two at the same time. If you can, of course.
• 54:43
  Yeah, definitely. And it's not only gender.
• 54:47
  I I think, but I'm I'm now making.
• 54:49
  Intention. Just for the ease of
• 54:52
  conversation, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of
• 54:55
  course not. Only when you think, OK, where
• 54:57
  is the 30% or we only have one woman.
• 55:01
  It's not rent, it's not finished.
• 55:03
  You know, inclusion is not finished until everybody says,
• 55:07
  OK, I'm here, I'm seeing, I'm, I'm hurt.
• 55:10
  I feel at the right place. You know, I think and that's
• 55:16
  another thing in super, in supervisory board, you have to
• 55:19
  have a diversion and it has to be.
• 55:23
  How do you say that it's more absurd that?
• 55:26
  It has to to to sort of there has to be a certain level of
• 55:30
  conflict. Yes, yes, To be critical and to
• 55:34
  be sharp. And if you all like each other
• 55:39
  and you're from the same bubble, then it doesn't, it's not going
• 55:43
  to work. And that is really when the shit
• 55:46
  is happening. I've seen a lot of cases which
• 55:49
  were in the news as well on supervisory boards who didn't be
• 55:53
  as critical as they have to be on their board.
• 55:57
  So therefore, inclusion and diversity is very, very
• 56:01
  important. Yeah, also on supervisory
• 56:04
  boards. Yeah.
• 56:05
  So my mission is to make tech in or inclusion in tech broader the
• 56:11
  new normal by 2032. What would be your advice to to
• 56:16
  get there? Wow.
• 56:17
  Yeah, of course this podcast is very important.
• 56:19
  Just keep spreading the word about it.
• 56:24
  Yeah. So you are advocating for women
• 56:28
  and for more diversity and which is very important.
• 56:31
  And just look around for the more the people doing as well.
• 56:35
  So. And I think we all do it in some
• 56:38
  sort of way. Yeah, I think.
• 56:42
  And I really hope that we'll reach that by 2032.
• 56:45
  But it takes like a generation. I think it will at least take 70
• 56:51
  years. But we're maybe we're halfway.
• 56:52
  I hope so. Yeah, there's, let's say I know
• 56:56
  it's B hack 2032, so I was wondering about one thing.
• 57:01
  Yeah, because you have a bit of experience in terms of matching
• 57:06
  with using AI. What role can AI play, you
• 57:11
  think? Yeah, I think AI can really be a
• 57:16
  creative sparring partner. So for example, one of the
• 57:21
  benefits of of having an inclusive team, the diverse
• 57:25
  team, sorry, in the diverse team is that you have several ideas
• 57:28
  and AI can come up with different ideas you wouldn't
• 57:32
  think of and then talk about those ideas or scenarios that
• 57:37
  really can help. On the other hand, it has to be
• 57:41
  human centers and decisions to to be human centered all of the
• 57:46
  time. So when we depend too much on AI
• 57:50
  and we can't come up with our own ideas, then things are not
• 57:54
  going quite well. Then so there's bias kicking in.
• 57:58
  With. Yes.
• 58:00
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.
• 58:02
  There are like the the Yep, upside, you've got upsides and
• 58:05
  downsides on the AI think, but we have to, you know, have the
• 58:08
  conversation running and you really have to think about, OK,
• 58:12
  is this decision or is this scenario we're talking about
• 58:16
  human centered or is it just given in by AI with these
• 58:19
  biases? Thank you, Caroline Lorty, thank
• 58:24
  you. Enjoyed our conversation.
• 58:27
  If people want to learn more about you and about mode of
• 58:30
  movement, where would you like to send them?
• 58:33
  Yeah, let's go first to LinkedIn, which we love this
• 58:36
  platform. Yeah, I have everything on it.
• 58:39
  Just send me a message or a connection and then yeah, if you
• 58:46
  have any questions, just let me know.
• 58:48
  Caroline at mode of movement dot NL and then I'll answer that and
• 58:52
  answer that. OK, the website is probably
• 58:55
  motor movement dot NL. Yes, it is cool.
• 58:59
  Thank you. And we'll include those links in
• 59:01
  the show notes. Carlene Lorty, thanks very much
• 59:05
  for an amazing conversation. Listeners, thank you very much
• 59:07
  for listening. And until the next episode, keep
• 59:10
  being awesome. Well, that's a wrap for episode
• 59:17
  107 of Women This Rotting Tech with Carlene Lorty on how
• 59:23
  corporate volunteering unlocks leadership and inclusion.
• 59:27
  Carlene and I hope that you found our conversation as
• 59:30
  inspiring as we intended it to be.
• 59:33
  And if you have any questions for Carlene or for me, please
• 59:37
  leave a comment on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube.
• 59:41
  I do read all of your comments. If you want to learn more about
• 59:45
  carlay or mode movement, please check out the links in the show
• 59:49
  notes. You'll find the show notes at
• 59:51
  Women Disrupting Tech dot blog slash episode one O 7 and this
• 59:56
  link is also in the description. If you've enjoyed this episode,
• 1:00:00
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• 1:00:05
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• 1:01:10
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• 1:01:17
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• 1:01:19
  I hope to see you in the next episode and until then, keep
• 1:01:23
  being awesome.