Latest / The Twenty One Clear Podcast / Hosting Family Meetings and Leaving the Company

Transcript

Hosting Family Meetings and Leaving the Company · The Twenty One Clear Podcast

0:05
Adam Hatcher: Hey there.
0:06
Welcome to the 21 Clear podcast.
0:09
I'm your host, Adam Hatcher, the founder of 21 Clear, a family business consulting
0:14
firm, and our goal here is to help you chaos-proof your family business
0:20
with each episode that we release.
0:22
Today, we're gonna follow up on episode number 11.
0:26
In 11, I shared an excerpt of a virtual panel I got to be part of.
0:33
Kennesaw State University, which is in North Atlanta here in Georgia, has a
0:38
Family Enterprise Center, and they invited me and two other next gens who had been in
0:44
their family companies to talk about what it's like to leave your family company.
0:50
In the last podcast, I shared an excerpt of that, and the three of us focused on
0:54
what it feels like, because inevitably, you and all your family members with
0:59
whom you work and own the company with will both no longer work there, and one
1:03
day no longer own the business as well.
1:06
So for those who had not thought about the idea, been scared to talk about it,
1:10
were somewhere in thinking about it, or just wanted to be proactive, we talked
1:17
about, well, what's the experience like from three people who had done it?
1:22
Well, in this episode, I, I wanna get a little bit more into planning.
1:27
Andrea Carpenter, uh, leads the Transition Specialist Group, and Andrea
1:33
had me back for a second time to talk about inner family business issues,
1:37
and this time we actually leaned again into how to leave your company well.
1:43
But instead of focusing on the feeling of leaving and the experience,
1:48
Andrea and I got- practical.
1:51
We talk in this episode, or at least in this excerpt that I'm gonna share
1:55
with you, about the importance of keeping a pulse on how it's going,
2:01
understanding where you are in your journey in the family company that
2:06
will begin, it will have a middle, and at some point it will end.
2:09
And we give some practical questions to ask, particularly if you are a
2:13
next gen working in the business.
2:16
And then Andrea asked me a good question about how, if you don't have these kind
2:22
of conversations, you can get them going.
2:26
So I'm excited to share this excerpt with you, and I hope it helps you as you
2:30
think about your inner family business.
2:34
I was in my family's company for 13 years.
2:37
I started as the general counsel, which is a, a mistake.
2:42
If you ever start in your family's company, don't let them put the word
2:45
general in your title, because then you will just end up doing everything else.
2:49
Mm-hmm.
2:50
So I was general counsel, and then became corporate strategy lead with a board
2:55
member, was s- then stepped into head of corporate strategy, and then added to
2:59
that vice president of human resources.
3:02
So for my last seven or so years there, it was all three of those roles combined.
3:08
But what was interesting And this was something I shared with the leadership
3:14
when we announced, my father and I announced my exit, is that he and I
3:20
always kept a dialogue going about what the future of my career was.
3:26
He would openly say to me in my annual reviews, "I want you to feel
3:31
free to think outside this company."
3:33
Uh, and that came from his ex- personal experience.
3:37
My dad graduated from the University of Georgia on Friday.
3:40
He went to work in the family company on Monday, and as he said it to me, "The only
3:44
person who ever promoted me was my father, and sometimes I had to buy my promotion."
3:50
So he wanted me, and I have two siblings, he always wanted us to know
3:54
that we had value outside the company.
3:56
That's that hiring part, putting people- Mm-hmm ... through a process.
4:00
But then we kept that alive, um, throughout, and we never
4:05
shared that with anyone 'cause it probably could panic people.
4:08
Like, "What?
4:08
They're always talking about him leaving."
4:11
But that, Andrea, was one thing that was helpful.
4:14
Mm.
4:15
The second thing that was helpful in helping me realize a new step
4:20
in my career was that we had...
4:22
Golly, what's it been now?
4:24
It's probably been 20 years of family meetings.
4:29
So if you've never had one of these, I was working with a family recently, and
4:33
our sit-down together was the first time all the people who worked in and owned
4:38
the company, who were family members, had ever sat in a room and talked about
4:41
the fact that they worked in and owned the company together, and the company
4:45
had been around for over 25 years, and that's normal for a lot of us.
4:50
It's an odd con- We figure we see you on Sunday after church,
4:54
Yeah I see you in meetings.
4:55
Like, what's a family meeting?
4:57
But these are just quickly, meet...
4:59
When you sit down, the family members who work in the business, who own
5:03
the business, and sometimes the family members around that group too-
5:06
Mm-hmm ... the ones impacted, sit down and work on the unique dynamic in
5:11
how you work in and own the business.
5:13
So I've got about 20 years of those, not just with what I do
5:16
with other families, myself.
5:17
Mm.
5:19
That, I didn't know when we started those meetings that that meeting was
5:25
where seeing a new step in my career was gonna, uh, was gonna start.
5:29
Mm.
5:29
But I am so...
5:31
If you haven't had one of those, I deeply encourage them.
5:35
It's what I facilitate for families, because I can't imagine that
5:39
conversation having happened in an executive meeting, in my annual review
5:43
with my dad, like, in a one-off.
5:46
My brother and I play golf together.
5:47
Like, just walking up the 10th fairway with my brother, that's not the place for
5:51
that, nor did it create the space for it.
5:55
So the- Mm ... roots, the root for me, one, was that the dialogue was always open
5:59
to think outside of it, but then there was a fam- there were family meetings Yeah.
6:04
And I think meetings and open communication and, and place for
6:09
everyone to talk is important.
6:11
There's likely people listening, maybe they don't have that structure currently.
6:15
There's no, like, "I wanna talk about the future," whether that's
6:19
staying, whether that's going.
6:21
Just there are no meetings, like, to, to, to bring things up.
6:25
Uh, so what, what advice would you give to someone who maybe is in a
6:30
position where they're trying to open communication more as a family?
6:35
Where would you tell them to start?
6:37
All right.
6:37
Where do they work in the, where do they work in the business?
6:39
Do they have the controlling shares?
6:42
Like, do they control the business from an ownership perspective?
6:44
Or are they- I would think they don't ... the next gen?
6:46
They're the next gen.
6:47
They don't.
6:47
Yeah.
6:47
Okay.
6:47
A next gen who might be listening here.
6:49
They, they- Got it ... wanna initiate conversations about the future,
6:53
but that, that current controlling generation, it, is maybe not...
6:58
It, it sounds like your dad had a lot of awareness being
7:02
the second generation already.
7:03
He felt some of those things.
7:04
But many successors who are the second generation, they're, they're coming
7:09
in from that founding generation, which sometimes is a very different
7:12
dynamic of, "Well, I built this thing.
7:15
I worked really hard.
7:17
I don't want my kids to be entitled."
7:18
So how, how do you start if, if you're thinking like, "Hey, this might actually
7:23
be a family company whether I'm gonna stay or whether I'm gonna go, but
7:26
we should, we should talk about it."
7:28
What advice would you give?
7:29
Mm.
7:30
All right.
7:30
So it's interesting, like, some of the things you talked about
7:33
for those of us that have a controlling interest in the company.
7:36
I'm gonna touch that even though you told me not to, okay?
7:38
Mm-hmm.
7:38
And then we'll go back.
7:40
When I talk to f- when I meet families that are needing help, th- that want
7:45
to start having conversations and want someone there, as someone said recently,
7:50
"They act better when you're here."
7:53
Mm-hmm.
7:54
Um, and, and having
7:55
We've used facilita- we use facilitators as well.
7:58
Have used.
7:58
Mm-hmm.
7:58
Do use.
7:59
Yeah.
7:59
It helps.
8:00
It really helps when a family member doesn't have to play that role.
8:03
Yeah.
8:05
When it's the person who has control of the business through ownership, the
8:10
reason they typically wanna talk is because either there was a disaster
8:16
in, or a near disaster in the previous generation, going from gen one- Mm
8:21
to gen two.
8:22
Like, they experienced it, and they don't ever wanna go through that again.
8:26
Or they see people around them, family companies- Mm ... they know around
8:31
them that are starting to go through casualty situations or c- or chaos.
8:35
Mm.
8:36
And they don't wanna do that.
8:37
Sometimes things seem to be going great, and it's actually the next
8:42
generation that picks up on it.
8:44
I remember talking with one family, and there was a lot of anxiety.
8:47
It was a high-debt business.
8:48
A lot of anxiety in the next generation about what would happen if there
8:52
was an emergency situation with the two siblings that owned the company.
8:57
Mm-hmm And so you talk to the next gens, they say, "We don't know
9:00
if we'd all of a sudden all be in debt or what's gonna happen."
9:03
And then you talk to the siblings that own the company, they said, "What?
9:06
We told them eight years ago."
9:08
Like- Mm ... "We were at lunch, and we told them what happens.
9:10
What more do they need?
9:11
It's more than we had."
9:12
So sometimes the need for the meeting comes, the next generation
9:16
has a sense, "This could be so much better," or, "There's something I
9:22
really need help talking about."
9:24
Mm-hmm.
9:25
'Cause I mean, there's an anxiety to it.
9:27
So if that's, if that is you, this is what I have found helpful.
9:32
When I, I sat with a family last week, and we had their first meeting,
9:36
and when we start, Andrea, we say, "Okay, when you work with your
9:40
family, you typically want two things.
9:42
You wanna build a great company with a strong family."
9:46
Mm-hmm.
9:46
Right?
9:47
Or a healthy family.
9:48
A great company with a healthy family.
9:50
Now, a great company doesn't have to be huge, okay?
9:53
We're, we're not all gonna be Marriott.
9:55
We're not all, not all gonna be the Waltons.
9:57
You don't have to be.
9:58
You can have one, two, three locations.
10:00
You can be regional.
10:01
Whatever it is.
10:02
You, whatever financial and community impact you wanna have with the
10:05
business, that's your greatness.
10:07
Mm-hmm.
10:07
Mm-hmm.
10:08
But you wanna have a great company with a healthy family.
10:12
Now, you might wanna be best friends and see each other every
10:14
week, or you may just want to enjoy getting together when you do.
10:18
Whatever your answer is, I love to ask families that upfront because
10:22
when they say, "Yeah, well, yeah, of course," like, who says no to that?
10:25
Who says, "Blah," no, some people actually.
10:28
Um, but, but when you start there, like, so if you're a next gen, "Hey, I work here
10:36
because I've dreamed about a great company and a really strong family around it."
10:41
Mm-hmm.
10:42
And we never talk about that.
10:45
Like, that's not...
10:47
You never sit in an executive meeting, I did that for a decade, never sat in an
10:51
exec meeting and the vice president of operations looked at me and my father and
10:55
said, "How are y'all working together?"
10:57
Mm-hmm.
10:58
"How are you working with your sister who doesn't work in the business?
11:00
What do you communi-" Never one time asked that.
11:03
Yeah.
11:03
So I would like a great company, a healthy family, and I'd like to talk about it.
11:09
Like, that's a easy way to step into it.
11:12
Yeah.
11:13
I, I like that framing, and it's also, it, there's nothing threatening.
11:19
Well, okay, you know your parents, but there's really nothing threatening about,
11:22
I, I can see an opportunity for us to talk about how to make our family stronger.
11:29
That's oftentimes a really big pull.
11:31
You're talking about we ha- we have this concept of there's your family community
11:35
and your family business community.
11:37
Sometimes people are in both.
11:39
Sometimes people are only in one, but you're talking about what,
11:43
what is the integration of these?
11:45
How do, how do we as a family want that to look and, and what does that look like?
11:51
I, I'm curious, Adam, in your work- What percentage of the time
11:55
are, are next gens reaching out to you as, like, the initial point?
11:59
Because at least for, for us, I see 50 to 60% of the time it's actually the next
12:05
generation, because you're the one with the excitement for the future, and the
12:10
energy, and the passion a lot of times.
12:13
Like, "I think we can make this better.
12:15
Let's talk about what this would look like."
12:17
And so you can empower yourself, and you can get help to find the words if you
12:22
don't know exactly what the words are, but you can start these conversations
12:28
about what it looks like, because it is gonna be super impactful on you and
12:33
the next generation, whether you're actively in the business or not, so.
12:37
Yeah.
12:38
Uh, f- I'm similar.
12:40
Yeah.
12:41
Half the time I connect with a family, it's the generation that's got ownership
12:46
control, which is- Mm-hmm ... not always, but typically the older generation.
12:50
Yeah.
12:50
That, that situation flips sometimes.
12:53
Yeah.
12:53
Uh, and then half the time it's the g- typ- it's the generation without control.
12:57
Yeah.
12:57
Uh, but then my goal, when you do...
13:01
And y'all are the same way.
13:02
When you work with a family, different than a ca- than a CPA or a wealth
13:07
manager for you who's looking out for y- your best interest.
13:11
Yep.
13:11
The goal then is to bring everybody together, and you work on that
13:15
unique dynamic of how they work in and own the company together.
13:19
Yeah.
13:19
For the next gens, when you...
13:21
Okay, so if you think, "Do I need to have a family meeting now?"
13:26
So I took some time, and you and I talked about last time, I reflected on
13:29
everything I'd ever learned about family companies, and wrote a book called
13:34
The Chaos-Proof Family Business, and dedicated a few chapters to leaving.
13:40
And there were a few questions that I wrote down, and I'll share
13:44
a few of them, 'cause they may be helpful- Mm-hmm ... to the listeners.
13:48
So if you are not in control of the business, I think...
13:53
Or, or if you are, it doesn't matter.
13:54
You, you could be in control, not in control.
13:56
You could supervise a family member.
13:57
Those are three distinct positions.
13:59
I think at all times you need to have a pulse on how you're doing in the company,
14:04
'cause remember, you're on a journey that's going to end at some point.
14:08
Mm-hmm.
14:08
Um, and we were joking earlier, like, something's gonna force you out if
14:12
you, if you don't do it one day.
14:14
Mm-hmm.
14:14
But if you're a next gen, and I sat with, thinking back to a family from
14:19
three months ago, remember asking the next generation, a- and you
14:23
just ask everyone equally, "Take a minute and think, is there a future
14:28
at this company that excites you?
14:31
Like, you can see...
14:33
Can you see responsibilities that you can earn, a, a type of work you
14:37
can enjoy, the compensation that you need or want for the life you want?"
14:43
Mm-hmm.
14:44
Like, take a breath.
14:46
You're probably working really hard right now.
14:48
Family companies, we, we work hard.
14:52
But is there something five years down the road you want?
14:56
And
14:59
can the organization pro- can this organization provide that to you?
15:05
Mm-hmm.
15:05
I have seen families that sat and said, family members who thought, "Oh,
15:08
this is the kind of thing I wanna do."
15:10
And Andrea, the company could not reasonably have grown into
15:13
that within the next 10 years.
15:15
Mm-hmm.
15:16
Um, in tough situations, you and I probably get a lot of phone
15:21
calls when things are hard.
15:23
Mm-hmm.
15:25
Can you do your job wholeheartedly?
15:30
Hmm.
15:30
Can you bring your talents, your opinions, your spirit, your personality?
15:35
Can you be you in the job you have?
15:39
Mm-hmm.
15:40
Which a lot of times when I start working with families,
15:43
that's something we have to do.
15:44
We have to, 'cause a lot of us drift into jobs over time.
15:48
Let's define the role the company needs, and then can you do that wholeheartedly?
15:54
Mm-hmm.
15:55
Because what's interesting in family companies...
15:59
So I did about seven years as the head of HR in our family's company, and learned
16:04
that employee engagement, uh, is...
16:08
A mentor taught me it can be really simple.
16:11
Mm-hmm.
16:11
Like three things, okay?
16:12
Imagine it like, uh, if you're watching on YouTube, I've got,
16:14
uh, my fingers in a triangle.
16:15
Three things.
16:18
Do you enjoy your work environment?
16:20
Are you rewarded and recognized fairly?
16:22
And do you have a chance to develop...
16:24
Can you see something you wanna develop to, and are you being supported?
16:27
All right, so let me go back.
16:29
Do you like your work environment?
16:30
And that's typically, do you respect your boss and feel respected, and do you like
16:35
the way everyone behaves at the company?
16:37
All right.
16:37
Mm-hmm.
16:38
Just 'cause you're working at your family's company
16:40
does not mean that is true.
16:42
Just 'cause you report to your uncle does not mean you all work well together,
16:48
or you will automatically work toget- well together without being intentional
16:54
in how- Mm-hmm ... you work together.
16:55
Mm-hmm.
16:55
Mm-hmm.
16:56
So to go to the second one, rewarded and recognized fairly.
17:01
Just because you work in your family's company doesn't mean you're
17:04
receiving market compensation, or you might be overcompensated,
17:08
which has its own, can have its own baggage that comes with it as well.
17:12
Yeah.
17:12
Just because you work with your family doesn't mean you all recognize
17:16
each other and compliment and affirm each other for what you do well.
17:20
And then to that last side, development, just because you
17:24
work with your family doesn't mean you can clearly see what's next.
17:28
Hmm.
17:29
And doesn't mean that you're being supported in getting there.
17:32
Yeah.
17:32
Working in a family company does not inevitably provide reward and recognition,
17:38
development in the work environment that will make a family member wanna stay.
17:42
Mm-hmm.
17:42
Mm-hmm.
17:42
So when we talk about can you do your job wholeheartedly- You would think
17:46
when you go to work with your family, "Oh, it's just gonna be automatic."
17:49
No.
17:49
Like, you have to give it just the same thought, if not more-
17:53
Mm-hmm ... than another fam- another employee in your company.
17:56
Yeah.
17:56
I love that example, and we have a tool called the objectives
17:59
matrix, which we start every single person in the family off with.
18:02
Like, what do you really want to achieve?
18:04
And you think about your family first.
18:07
For you, if you have a spouse or a partner, um, if you have any
18:12
children, what are the things that you want to accomplish in life?
18:16
I, I love the, the triangle, and, but sometimes maybe growth is important to
18:23
you, but maybe you're at a stage of life, you're like, "Actually, that's not, that's
18:27
not something that is super important to me or that I'm optimizing for right now."
18:31
And so to be able to put words behind, "Yeah, that's a deal breaker.
18:35
I need to be compensated fairly.
18:37
And that's a deal breaker for me because if I am not compensated
18:40
fairly, then I'm gonna walk away."
18:42
Or, if my siblings are working in the business and they're being compensated
18:46
the same as me, but they're not working, they're not actually working, they're
18:50
just getting compensation because they're part of the family and, and
18:54
that's how it was set up, that could feel like a deal breaker to you.
18:58
And any of those things are valid, right?
19:00
It doesn't, your impression of what is a deal breaker or what is not
19:04
doesn't really matter to other people.
19:05
You just need to have conviction around what are the things
19:08
that are most important to you.
19:10
Because then as you start to explore, "Should I stay?
19:14
Should I go?
19:15
Um, how fast is it gonna go?
19:17
What is the timeline gonna look like?"
19:19
All of these other pieces that can start to come out as you make decisions on, on
19:24
all of that, you can actually make them grounded in, "Okay, I actually know what
19:29
are the most important things to me."
19:32
And so I, I just wanted to bring in, I think there's some inner
19:35
work, too, to do as well before you're just in a family meeting.
19:40
Like, I'm assuming you put a lot of thought in before you went into the
19:44
family meeting and said, "I think I'm ready to, to go kind of do this thing."
19:48
Like, like, you had, you had really thought about what that would look
19:51
like and what the case would be so that you could come with a compelling
19:55
case to start a conversation.
19:56
So maybe can you take us a little bit- Mm-hmm ... to that moment
19:58
around wh- how, how you told, um, and what that conversation looked like?
20:03
Yeah.
20:04
What I l- liked, even hearing the way you asked that, is because we were in family
20:10
meetings, again, these meetings focused on how we work in and own the company
20:15
together, it wasn't a surprise topic.
20:18
Mm-hmm.
20:20
And it actually evolved over time.
20:23
It wasn't an acute moment.
20:25
And so- Mm ... this is something that I like to do with families.
20:28
Our family consultant did it with us.
20:30
Before we got to the meeting, he emailed out a prompt, and
20:35
he had us imagine headlines.
20:38
And he said, "Think three..."
20:40
It was either three or five.
20:41
"Think three to five years out."
20:44
What headlines would you want the local newspaper to be writing about you,
20:51
about the family, about the company?
20:55
Mm-hmm.
20:56
And you were supposed to do it independently.
21:00
So my siblings, my parents, and you're not supposed to look- Mm-hmm ... or
21:04
send them to anybody ahead of time.
21:06
And of course, he would talk with us before the meeting.
21:08
Yeah, yeah.
21:09
And I didn't write, "My time is now."
21:12
Like, that was not one of my headlines.
21:15
But in doing that, it gave me space to reflect.
21:18
So I need to tell you a little bit about me.
21:21
I believe if you work in your family's company, that you need to
21:25
always be working yourself out of a job, just like any other company.
21:30
If, if you, if your family's company depends on you, that company is as
21:35
vulnerable as any non-family company.
21:38
Mm-hmm.
21:39
That is why succession and development exists.
21:43
And so if I'm going to teach that in the company, I had to live it.
21:48
Mm-hmm.
21:48
And so over time, Andrea, we were growing the company.
21:52
I was always working to replace myself with people that were better than me.
21:57
So that's going on when I have to answer this question.
22:01
And in answering it, I realized that it was time for me to
22:06
start letting go of my roles.
22:09
Mm-hmm.
22:11
And I wrote that, and as we sat in the meeting...
22:14
But then, a- and so that was it.
22:15
I just said- Mm-hmm ... "My time in these roles has ended because there
22:19
are people ready to take them."
22:22
Mm-hmm.
22:23
"And the company will be better for that."
22:25
Now, I didn't think the headline all the way through from there.
22:29
But what was nice about it, and was not threatening and didn't make that scary
22:33
to say, is one, there were no executives.
22:37
Mm-hmm.
22:37
That wasn't a team meeting.
22:39
There was no...
22:39
That was just us- Mm ... the fam- the family members, the ownership,
22:44
like, just my siblings and my parents.
22:47
Mm-hmm.
22:47
And then everyone else did the same thing.
22:50
So I got to hear what was important to each of them, and
22:53
what they hoped for and imagined.
22:56
Yeah.
22:56
So i- i- if it sounded like it was some, you know, bomb
23:00
shock in a meeting, it wasn't.
23:00
It was actually very gradual, and it started with everybody
23:04
thinking three to five years out.
23:08
Mm-hmm.
23:09
I love that, and I think just the space, there's so many different activities and
23:13
questions and conversation structures.
23:16
Like, the world is, is so infinite in how these things might come up, so
23:20
you can figure out what works best for you, what works best for your family.
23:23
But I love that it came up in a natural way, that it came up around, uh,
23:29
ambitions, and it was rooted in, in what was important to you, that you were gonna
23:33
be able to do that, and that was already a value- that they, that they knew you had.
23:39
And that is just an excerpt of a much longer conversation
23:44
that Andrea and I have.
23:46
I'm gonna link to the transition specialists in the show notes.
23:51
You'll be able to get to the full version of the podcast, and I am excited for
23:57
you to hear the whole conversation.
23:58
I hope this was helpful to you.
24:01
Every month when we put out this podcast, we wanna give you somewhere
24:08
between 20 and 30 minutes just to think about how your family works
24:12
in and owns the company together.
24:14
21 Clear, when you look at us from an entire content perspective,
24:19
each month we publish a podcast, a newsletter, and somewhere between
24:23
12 and 15 posts on LinkedIn.
24:26
If you take all those together, it's about an hour of your time each month,
24:30
and all that content is meant to help you think about the dynamics of how you
24:35
work in and own your company together.
24:38
There's a lot of stuff about how to deal...
24:40
You know, develop yourself personally.
24:42
There's a lot about how to set smart business strategy, but
24:45
that inner family business is something that's hard to focus on.
24:49
So our hope is that each of the things that we publish helps you do that.
24:53
In the show notes, you can subscribe to the newsletter and follow me on LinkedIn.
24:58
Here's some of the stuff you'll see too.
25:00
I had a former CEO of his family's company jump into the comments on a
25:06
post that I wrote, and it actually relates to leaving your family company.
25:10
So I want to close us with this, and I hope this is an endorsement to you for
25:14
spending more time just thinking about and reading and listening to things
25:19
about how you work with your family.
25:20
All right.
25:21
So in response to a post I had put up on LinkedIn about leaving,
25:25
Pete stepped in and wrote this.
25:28
He says, "Eight years ago, I hired a succession coach to begin
25:32
transitioning the business to my son.
25:35
Thirty days in, the coach met with me and said, 'You need to leave.
25:42
Your voice is simply too big, even though you don't carry the title.'
25:47
So I was there on Friday and gone on Monday, and the next year of
25:52
my life was at best difficult."
25:57
And then Pete goes on to share practical advice that he has learned
26:02
in reflecting on his exit that he would give to anyone else, particularly if
26:07
you are the controlling generation, either by title or by ownership
26:12
or both in your family company.
26:14
That, y'all, is the value of engaging this deeper inner
26:18
family business work and thought.
26:20
So I hope this podcast has helped you.
26:22
I hope LinkedIn and the newsletter help you, and every part of
26:28
this is about helping you better chaos-proof your family company.
26:32
I appreciate you joining us.
26:34
I look forward to the-- being with you in the next episode, and as my
26:37
grandfather would have said, thank you so very, very much for listening.