Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Human First, Tech with Purpose: Voice, Collaboration, and Better EdTech | Zareen Levien

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Human First, Tech with Purpose: Voice, Collaboration, and Better EdTech | Zareen Levien · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:40
This EdTech podcast. I'm Jeremy Mickle. I'm joined
0:42
by co -host David Berner. And our special guest
0:45
we have with us today is Zareen Levine, who is
0:49
the principal educator. And we had a little conversation
0:54
offline if it should be principal or principal.
0:58
And we've decided on it's the principal educator
1:01
at Padlet. And we're really excited to have you
1:04
on Zareen. Thanks for joining us. yeah thanks
1:06
so much for having me you can tell we're all
1:07
educators right we get right into the grammar
1:09
and the spelling and want to make sure we have
1:11
the right thing well that's exactly it right
1:14
we don't want to confuse people especially if
1:16
they're not watching us um and just listening
1:18
um either way we're glad to have you listeners
1:22
But Zareen, we want to kind of get into it right
1:24
away here with you. We want to kind of find out
1:27
a little bit about how did you get to be this
1:29
principal educator at Padlet? What was your journey,
1:32
your experiences coming up through the education
1:35
ranks to get to where you are? Yeah, thanks so
1:37
much for having me on the podcast. It's great
1:39
to speak with you both today. So yeah, I have
1:41
an interesting journey kind of through tech and
1:44
education. When I first graduated from college,
1:47
actually, I'll go even further back. My mom is
1:50
a teacher. So I kind of always had that. I used
1:52
to visit her classroom. She taught middle school
1:54
math and many other things. And then my dad was
1:57
a computer engineer. So I kind of had that ed
2:00
tech right from the beginning from both of my
2:01
parents. And when I graduated from college, I
2:04
actually joined Yahoo as a product manager. I
2:06
was deep in the tech space that was back in the
2:09
very early days of Yahoo, actually, before Google
2:12
existed. And I was a product manager there for
2:15
several years. And I started volunteering in
2:17
a nearby classroom through a program we had at
2:20
the company. And I just fell in love with the
2:21
classroom. It was so exciting what was happening
2:24
every day. I had a really amazing teacher who
2:26
I got to kind of be with in those volunteer moments.
2:29
And I decided that that was for me. And so I
2:31
went back to school. And I became a teacher.
2:34
I got a master's in education. I started out
2:37
teaching high school for a year, but really found
2:40
that elementary was more of my sweet spot. So
2:42
I stayed in elementary for many years, then became
2:45
an instructional coach and then a district director
2:49
of digital learning in San Francisco Unified
2:51
for several years. And then about three years
2:55
ago, I landed at Padlet and have been really
2:57
excited to work here and to kind of bring their
3:00
education efforts forward and talk to teachers
3:02
and make sure that I'm kind of the bridge between
3:05
educators and the company. And so we're both
3:07
listening to educators, bringing that back into
3:09
the product, and also kind of informing the product
3:12
and teaching people about what we can do with
3:14
the realm of education. That's a really interesting
3:18
arc of going from a tech space into the classroom
3:23
and back to an ed tech space. And I can imagine
3:27
here now having your feet in both of those different
3:31
worlds, right? Are there like certain experiences
3:35
that you had when you were in the classroom that
3:38
helped you better understand, you know, what
3:41
you're doing now and how you can better help
3:43
educators? Oh, yeah, definitely. So many experiences
3:47
along the way. Lots of learnings, both from students
3:51
and from other teachers. I think some of the
3:53
things that stick with me the most are, you know,
3:56
I really fell in love with EdTech because I saw
3:58
how it was reaching those learners at the fringes,
4:01
the ones that I as a teacher would have trouble
4:03
engaging, or they would be kind of left out of
4:06
conversations or not engaged in the schoolwork.
4:09
And every now and then, you know, we try a different
4:12
project. I try, you know, in my very first year,
4:14
of teaching, we were using PowerPoint, actually,
4:16
before Google Slides existed. And we went into
4:19
a computer lab, and we were doing these presentations.
4:21
I was teaching science. And so they were researching
4:23
an animal. And I had one student who I was just
4:26
having trouble reaching. He was very disruptive.
4:29
I was a very new teacher, so I don't think I
4:31
was doing the right things to engage him. And
4:34
then he made this the most beautiful presentation
4:36
I've ever seen. He was like, you know, a visual
4:39
designer as a high school student. And he made
4:41
it about the black mama because it was the most
4:44
poisonous snake in the world. And I just it just.
4:47
you know it reminded me that really important
4:49
thing of a teacher that every single student
4:52
has some spark and some way to shine you might
4:55
not have discovered yet and the more options
4:58
and things we can give them to show you their
5:01
their mostly beautiful self is what we need to
5:03
do as educators and I think technology really
5:05
helps us do that. And then along with that too
5:08
like are there things that you still miss from
5:10
not being in the classroom that that now you
5:13
look back and you're like boy I wish I would
5:16
have you know done more of this or or like is
5:20
it just connecting with the kids that maybe you
5:22
feel like you know on a daily basis that isn't
5:25
isn't there anymore Yeah, definitely. I love
5:28
my time in the classroom. And I still think,
5:31
you know, maybe maybe I'll go back. Once you're
5:32
an educator, it's hard to say you're really,
5:34
really done with it. I think those connections
5:37
with students are really powerful. I really think
5:39
when you're in a classroom, you become like a
5:41
family and those relationships are really close.
5:44
And, you know, I've tried to stay in the classroom
5:46
from time to time, visit teachers and do some
5:49
volunteer work and you get a little taste of
5:51
it. But it's nothing like being with the same
5:53
group day after day and those relationships.
5:56
that you build with the families and with the
5:57
students. So I do miss that. And I also, I feel
6:00
like I've learned a lot, you know, in observing
6:02
so many other teachers. And now at my time at
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Padlet, I hear from so many educators around
6:07
the world, the really amazing things that they're
6:09
doing. And I think, oh, you know, if I were back
6:11
in the classroom, I'd have all these great ideas
6:13
and I would love to try this and that and the
6:15
other thing. So maybe that's someday in my future.
6:20
One of the things that we, obviously Jeremy and
6:23
I are in this space and we're always working
6:25
with schools and educators on the EdTech tools
6:28
that are already in use. And we look at maybe
6:32
ones that they're going to adopt or haven't heard
6:34
of before. Can you kind of give us your thoughts
6:37
on what EdTech's role is in education for when
6:41
teachers are using it? Yeah, absolutely. I think...
6:45
EdTech has so much possibility. And I think we've
6:48
seen it grow so much over the past few years,
6:52
especially over the pandemic and afterwards.
6:54
And now with so much happening with AI, there's
6:57
so much potential. And there's lots of great
7:00
things it can do. And there's things that maybe
7:01
aren't as meaningful that we're trying out as
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well. And where I think EdTech really shines
7:07
is kind of what I was talking about with the
7:09
students I was mentioning. It's in, you know,
7:12
augmenting the wonderful things that are happening
7:14
in person in the classroom. I don't think it's
7:17
going to replace the connection and the conversations
7:20
and the in -person learning that's so important
7:22
for young people and for all people really to
7:25
have those. person moments, but I think it can
7:27
do a lot of things. You know, it can give us
7:30
access to express ourselves in different ways.
7:32
It can let everyone share their idea at once.
7:35
It can let the more shy students speak up. It
7:38
can let my designer friends or my very verbal
7:40
friends or my very kind of performative friends.
7:43
It can give them all a way to share their thinking
7:45
instead of just, you know, in the traditional
7:47
classroom, we depend so much on reading and writing.
7:50
Some students are great at that and there's many
7:52
students that shine in other ways. So I think
7:54
it has potential to do that. do so many of those
7:56
different things. And really the teacher is still
7:59
the expert who holds all of that knowledge about
8:02
what their students need and what the learning
8:04
objectives are. And so when we give these powerful
8:07
tools to the teacher, if we make the easy to
8:09
use and we make it fun for the students and engaging,
8:13
they can put it all together and kind of make
8:15
that magic. Yeah. And so as you look at like
8:19
schools are obviously, you know, they one of
8:21
the things that we're definitely doing is we're
8:23
experimenting with a lot of different and teachers
8:26
are trying different things, figuring out what
8:27
works for them, what works for their class. How
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do you feel like we, like a school district or
8:33
even down to the individual teacher, are there
8:37
some best ways for them to try things out? Because
8:41
the one thing that we obviously run into as well
8:44
is there are a lot of tools. So sometimes it's
8:47
like there's tool fatigue, right? There's...
8:49
all sorts of things you can do. It's kind of
8:52
like the grocery store problem, right? There's
8:54
so many options you don't know what to pick,
8:56
right? What do you think about as far as helping
9:01
teachers to be innovative in the classroom? How
9:03
can we do that while avoiding some of that tool
9:06
fatigue? Yeah, I think it's a real problem that
9:10
I experienced when I was in the classroom and
9:12
I know is even more so now. There are so many
9:15
great tools and we need to find ones that really
9:17
meet the needs of what we're trying to do in
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the classroom. And every teacher doesn't have
9:22
to use every tool. And I think you're right that
9:25
it's a big job for the teacher to kind of wade
9:28
through all of these things and figure out what
9:30
are the best tools for them. I think there are
9:33
some organizations out there that help, like
9:35
ISTE is a great source of information with their
9:38
conference, but also with their kind of SEALs.
9:41
They have an ISTE SEAL that kind of vets tools
9:44
to see which ones are the most appropriate for
9:47
students. students and teachers. Also, Common
9:48
Sense Media is a favorite of mine. They have
9:51
some great kind of your reviews of tools. But
9:54
I really think that teachers always learn in
9:57
community with each other. So whether that's
9:59
at a conference or whether that's just in your
10:01
own school building, seeing what other teachers
10:03
are finding valuable, I think is a great way
10:05
to learn and finding those tools that are really
10:08
versatile. So. so that you don't have to have
10:10
10 different tools and you're constantly telling
10:12
your students, OK, open up this one and open
10:14
up this one. And now we're doing this. But then
10:16
you can have a tool where you can have multiple
10:18
routines. So the cognitive load is not about
10:21
how you use this other tool that we're now using
10:23
today, but it's about the learning. And so you
10:26
have a tool that can do many things that are
10:28
powerful and doing most of the things that you
10:30
want. And then you can really focus on those
10:32
learning routines that will push the learning
10:34
forward. I think one of the things that you mentioned
10:38
here that stuck with me, and it's a phrase that
10:41
I think I find myself saying quite frequently
10:44
here too, is that when I'm presenting in front
10:47
of teachers, I'm reminding them, you are the
10:49
experts of your content and you are the experts
10:52
of your students. And that if an EdTech tool
10:56
can help bring that learning to them in a better
11:01
way, a more efficient way, then that I think
11:03
you've hit. you know, the right balance between
11:07
having the tech and knowing what your students
11:10
are capable of. And so I really appreciate you
11:13
saying that, and it strikes. But one of the things
11:16
that, too, I think teachers are often very concerned
11:20
about is if they're going to be integrating an
11:22
EdTech tool like Padlet, or we can be more general
11:26
if you want to consider it that way, too. I'll
11:28
let you kind of take this wherever you want to
11:30
go to it. But It's really important, I think,
11:33
for the school, for the district, and you mentioned
11:35
Common Sense and ISTE as places that vet these
11:38
different tools, but to really consider the safe
11:42
learning spaces that we're putting our children
11:45
into. How important is it that a teacher be aware
11:50
of not just the student data privacy side of
11:53
things, but the social -emotional spaces that
11:56
are going to foster that safe environment? Yeah,
12:01
it's something I'm really passionate about. And
12:03
I think, as you mentioned, the first step is
12:05
making sure the data privacy is there. And there
12:08
are a lot of tools out there trying new things.
12:11
So we do have to check. As educators and certainly
12:13
districts are already checking as well that we
12:16
do have robust privacy policy. And Padlet certainly
12:19
values that and has that in place, only using
12:22
premium models of AI tools so that we're not
12:26
training on your data, all of those important
12:27
things. But I really love what you said. about
12:30
the kind of socio -emotional safety of students.
12:33
I think that is really a first step and a baseline.
12:36
So we need to do that really, you know, outside
12:39
of EdTech even. We need to make sure that students
12:41
feel safe and welcomed first because otherwise
12:44
they really can't do any of that learning online
12:46
or offline. So we need to kind of set up the
12:49
conditions for that. And some of that is certainly
12:51
going to happen live in the classroom doing things
12:55
that are, you know, fun openers and community
12:57
building and really finding out what students
12:59
interests are and technology tools can help with
13:02
that in some ways too and I think Some of the
13:04
activities on Padlet that we've put together
13:07
and we're putting together now with back to school
13:08
coming up really highlight that. So things like
13:12
a mood meter where you can see how you feel today
13:14
or a kind of fun opening question where you can
13:16
share something about what you love or your background.
13:19
Finding those kind of low lift ways so students
13:23
don't feel intimidated to share about themselves,
13:25
but they can start to get to know each other.
13:27
And one thing I love about doing those kinds
13:30
of things in Padlet is you're building skills
13:32
in multiple ways. those connections we hope,
13:34
which is the first priority. And then actually,
13:37
students are getting to experiment with tools
13:39
that hopefully they'll be able to use for learning
13:41
and for deeper conversations and harder conversations
13:44
later. So you're kind of building those muscles
13:47
in different ways. So a teacher could just open
13:50
up a tool, a collaborative space tool, say like
13:53
Padlet, and just say to their students, OK, ready,
13:55
set, go. Right? And they're going to have an
13:58
experience, but if the teacher is prepping them
14:01
for that by building and creating those spaces
14:05
within their in -person class of, you know, talking
14:09
about some of the soft skills and commenting
14:11
on maybe student work or, you know, or setting
14:14
it up so that they're treating each other in
14:17
respectful ways, they're going to find more success.
14:21
Yes, absolutely. I think we all kind of need
14:23
that practice, but I would probably include adults
14:25
in that too, that we need that kind of practice
14:27
of kind feedback and productive collaboration
14:32
and all of those things. And the more you can
14:34
practice that, because as we know, digital spaces
14:36
have a lot of things going on in them. So if
14:38
we just kind of let students just jump in there
14:41
and try things, different things will happen.
14:44
Those will be opportunities for learning as well.
14:46
But we can set them up for success by practicing
14:48
those things. to use some digital tools with
14:51
first graders. And we would do a think, pair,
14:54
share, and we would do lots of those practices.
14:55
We'd have a community circle, and we'd practice
14:57
giving feedback in person. And then we'd reflect
15:00
on that feedback and say, how did that feel to
15:02
get that feedback? And really kind of taking
15:04
all of those steps ahead of time. And then using
15:07
technology, as you were mentioning, when you
15:09
feel it's useful. I used to say this all the
15:11
time, even as an ed tech coach who was trying
15:13
to help them use technology. I would say, don't
15:15
use technology if you don't have a good reason
15:17
to. Make sure you know why. you're using it and
15:20
that it's really doing something additional that
15:22
you couldn't just do in person because we know
15:25
that we students gain so much from just talking
15:27
to each other and being in person and in community.
15:29
So use the technology when you need it. Don't
15:31
just throw it in there all the time. So if you
15:35
could give, you know, I don't know, two or three
15:38
tips to teachers that want to really focus on
15:42
using their space. as a learning community rather
15:46
than just a place to put up, you know, unmoderated
15:51
content and comments? What would you suggest
15:55
teachers do? Yeah, I guess I would start by helping
15:59
students work together. So some of that could
16:01
be offline, in person, in pairs, in games, being
16:05
silly together, laughing together, finding out
16:08
what students love and helping them know that
16:11
about each other as well, I think is really important.
16:15
And then... Starting with some exploration, I
16:17
always suggest that with a tech tool. So students
16:20
are excited to use different tech tools and let
16:22
them play there a little bit. Because if you
16:25
just give them something very direct to do right
16:27
away, it's going to be really hard for us as
16:29
well. If we give us some beautiful art supplies
16:31
or a beautiful digital space to play with, we
16:33
want to press on all the buttons and try it.
16:35
So let them try that. And one thing I love to
16:37
do when I start with tech tools as well is have
16:40
students work in pairs. This is something that
16:42
I learned from Code .org way in the... many years
16:45
ago, but having two students on one computer.
16:48
Because then they're talking to each other and
16:50
they're playing and experimenting. And they're
16:52
getting some of those social skills, but they're
16:54
also learning the tech tool. And then later,
16:56
when they've developed more of those skills,
16:58
put them on their individual computers. And they've
17:00
already kind of talked through some of the things
17:02
they're confused about. They've already learned
17:04
some things from each other about maybe how to
17:06
be kind, how to be productive, how to be creative.
17:08
And then they're more ready to do that individually.
17:11
And I think one other thing too, along with that,
17:14
and I completely agree with what you have, is
17:16
sometimes I think teachers, they see that tool,
17:18
they're going to try that tool, and they give
17:19
it everything that you just said right there,
17:21
including the opportunity for students to collaborate
17:24
and for them to... dive into and just explore.
17:30
I think sometimes they say, oh, we're going to
17:32
do this for this particular thing, and maybe
17:35
it's even purposeful. But then they put it on
17:37
the shelf, and then they forget about it, and
17:39
they don't come back to it until maybe another
17:42
maybe two units down the road, or maybe it's
17:45
even a new semester. And now they're expecting
17:47
students to just pick up where they used it the
17:49
last time. I think without giving them some sort
17:52
of consistent opportunities to use it, then they're
17:56
never going to really become really proficient
17:59
users of that particular tool, even for the best
18:02
educational reasons. Yeah, I totally agree. I
18:04
think that's so common, too. You know, educators
18:06
are busy. They have so many things that they're
18:08
trying to do with students and so many things
18:10
to teach them that it's easy to forget about
18:12
a tech tool, even if it was really successful
18:14
and fun. And so I'm really also a big advocate
18:18
of making routines so that it's really predictable
18:20
for students and the teachers as well. It's easy
18:22
for us to remember. And I think we all thrive
18:25
when we have that structure and those routines.
18:28
On Friday, we know we're going to come in and
18:30
we're going to do a reflection about the week.
18:31
And every week we do that. and it gets better
18:33
every week. And then we come back to it and maybe
18:36
we give each other feedback and maybe we think
18:38
about how we could make it even better the next
18:40
time when we can keep building on that. So those
18:43
routines and that structure is so important.
18:46
So one of the other things too, you know, looking
18:49
at Padlet, obviously there's, and you kind of
18:52
talked about it a little bit here too, is the
18:53
ability for students to engage and, you know,
18:57
have a voice. Can you talk a little bit about
19:00
how Padlet helps elevate discussions among students
19:05
or for teachers to see discussions that are kind
19:08
of outside of the traditional like speaking up
19:11
in class or that kind of thing. Yeah, I think
19:13
it's one of the reasons that Padlet has become
19:15
very popular because it really gives a voice
19:19
to every student in the room. And I think we
19:22
saw it come out, especially when we were online
19:24
in the pandemic, but it works very well in the
19:26
classroom as well. So discussion boards of all
19:29
different sorts are very useful in that way.
19:32
Instead of one person talking at a time, everyone
19:35
can contribute their ideas. Padlet has a lot
19:37
of controls too, where you can let everyone see
19:40
each other's ideas right away, or you can kind
19:42
of delay that, give everyone that thinking time,
19:45
put in their thinking for something. And then
19:47
in addition to that, you can come back to it
19:50
and then students can give each other feedback.
19:52
And, you know, I really like the idea of blended
19:54
learning as well. So some of these great things
19:57
can happen online, but maybe you post your initial
19:59
idea on a Padlet and then maybe you have a discussion
20:02
in person, but it's gotten those initial ideas
20:05
out there. Whereas, you know, Growing up as a
20:07
student, I was a very, very shy student. So I
20:09
did not want to raise my hand. I didn't want
20:11
everyone looking at me. I didn't want to talk
20:12
in front of the group. And I know there's a lot
20:15
of students like that. So it gives all of those
20:17
students a way to participate. That doesn't mean
20:20
they have to be super brave and raise their hand.
20:22
And then in addition to that, all our multimedia
20:26
attachments, and I was kind of referring to this
20:29
earlier, you can express yourselves in different
20:31
ways. You don't have to only write text. You
20:33
can draw a picture. You can record your voice.
20:36
You can make an AI image. There's many different
20:39
ways, and the teacher can control that as well.
20:41
Choose which ways you want to make available
20:43
to the student. to really give them many entry
20:46
points. And that's my hope is that we have many
20:49
entry points for all our students. Some students
20:51
might want to write a lot and they have tons
20:52
of ideas and they're ready to do that. And other
20:54
students are maybe... really think visually or
20:57
really feel much more comfortable speaking. And
21:00
so giving them all ways to share their thinking.
21:03
And so I love tools like Padlet that can really
21:06
make thinking visible in multiple ways. And so
21:08
not only does it give those entry points, but
21:11
then it gives the teacher insight into what all
21:13
of my students think, not just the ones who are
21:15
really talkative. Yeah. And then you have obviously
21:19
to the, you mentioned some of the teacher controls
21:22
and that, but what kind of ways can teachers
21:25
engage with students? So if they've gone through
21:28
the process and they've given their thoughts
21:32
on something, and you can take this wherever
21:34
you want, like whatever fits best for what Padlet
21:37
can do, but what would a teacher response look
21:40
like to student voice once the students have
21:43
had opportunities to contribute to a board or
21:46
something like that? Yeah, that's a great question.
21:49
I think, you know, all of these things are more
21:51
powerful when there is an audience, whether that's
21:54
just the teacher or whether that's other students.
21:56
If you're just posting on a board, and as you
21:58
were mentioning earlier, you never come back
21:59
to it. students might not care that much about
22:01
it because they know no one's ever going to look
22:03
at it. So that audience even if it's just your
22:05
teacher or if it's other students is really important.
22:08
So you know there's simple things on something
22:10
like a discussion board where if a student's
22:13
write a text post and the teacher can write feedback
22:15
to them and text but that Feedback can also be
22:18
multimedia. Works really well for my younger
22:21
learners as well. I can record audio feedback
22:24
on a post or even video feedback or I can use
22:28
all of those media attachments as a teacher.
22:30
And I also really encourage classrooms to build
22:33
those skills in students. So students are also
22:36
giving each other peer feedback. I think there's...
22:39
There's almost nothing more powerful than getting
22:42
frequent feedback throughout the learning cycle.
22:44
I think, you know, in the old days, and, you
22:46
know, when I was teaching, sometimes you'd be
22:48
going through a unit and students will be working
22:50
on their paper and then it would take a little
22:52
while before I actually would look at their work
22:54
and give them feedback. And all of that learning
22:57
time, there's so much potential in those intermittent
22:59
weeks while they're in progress. And something
23:02
like Padlet can really open that up. So they've
23:04
written their first paragraph and they're already
23:06
getting feedback from their peers, from their
23:08
teacher. they're course correcting something
23:10
or extending on something, otherwise it would
23:13
just take much longer and they wouldn't get as
23:15
much feedback and as much learning wouldn't happen.
23:18
So Zerreen, one direction I want to take us here
23:21
is about this idea of the myth of the independent
23:25
learner. Can you tell us a little bit more about
23:28
what do you mean by the myth of the independent
23:31
learner and why is it worth challenging? Yeah,
23:35
it's something that I've thought a lot about
23:37
as well. It's a great topic. I think especially
23:40
in EdTech, there's so much potential to differentiate
23:43
and personalize learning. It's very tempting
23:47
to be like, OK, great. Everyone gets to go with
23:49
their own computer. I'm going to give you learning
23:51
that's exactly customized to where you are, to
23:53
your learning edge. And it's going to be perfect
23:55
because those things that you need extra practice
23:58
at, the computer will just give you back and
24:00
forth. And you'll just be able to progress that
24:02
way. And I think it sounds good. But it's not
24:05
really the way learning happens for young people.
24:07
Learning happens in collaboration, and when we
24:10
talk to people, and we need to care about it.
24:13
And so I think there are a small number of independent
24:16
learners who would thrive. in that situation
24:19
and they do thrive. And they would thrive in
24:21
any learning situation, honestly. And so you
24:23
can give them those independent tasks and that's
24:26
great. And then there's a whole bunch of other
24:28
learners that aren't motivated to do those things
24:31
unless somebody cares about it, unless they care
24:33
about it, unless you find something they're interested
24:35
in, unless, you know, the teacher can provide
24:39
some of that motivation and also their peers
24:41
can provide some of that motivation. So while
24:43
we wish that every student could just kind of
24:45
thrive within those learning conditions, I don't
24:48
think that's true. And I think some EdTech tools
24:50
fall in the trap of thinking the computer can
24:52
just be the teacher. And I think teachers, as
24:54
we said before, know so much. And they really
24:57
are experts at the content, at their students,
25:00
and they know how to connect those things. And
25:02
so they need to be in the equation, not just
25:05
the computer and the tool. And I think too, as
25:09
I look back on well past my time, in the classroom
25:14
as a student, but even think back to my time
25:19
in the classroom as a teacher and everything
25:21
that I've done since that time, the best things
25:25
that I do seem to involve collaboration with
25:30
others in order to produce whatever that happens
25:34
to be, including this podcast, having the opportunity
25:37
to... you know, to work collaboratively with
25:40
David has made what I think I've done much more
25:43
meaningful, and I think hopefully people see
25:46
it as much more impactful as well. But, you know,
25:49
what are... Do you think we're doing enough to
25:53
help our students, whether it would be to think
25:57
within the confines of a group that you're working
26:01
with or to negotiate different ideas and differences
26:05
of opinion and direction and working together
26:09
to be able to productively and collaboratively
26:13
solve problems? Yeah, I think it's those are
26:17
such important skills and I think teachers have
26:20
been doing things with those skills for a long
26:23
time I think and one of the things that I worry
26:26
about some is keeps me up at night a little bit
26:28
is that technology might take away some of those
26:30
things and I think you know it goes to your question
26:32
about the Independent learner and those you know
26:35
adaptive programs and things like that I don't
26:37
want to lose the magic of that and those skills
26:40
and I think if we all think about it We realize
26:42
that's true for us, you know, we work really
26:45
well when we bounce ideas off someone or we have
26:47
a partner. I think of all the, you know, I love
26:50
music. I think of all the famous musical, you
26:52
know, groups and they always had that partner
26:54
like the Beatles. They had John and Paul were
26:56
working together. And so you need those kind
26:58
of people to bounce off ideas with. And you can
27:01
do that in digital spaces too. But I hope that
27:04
we don't lose that because I think it's so important.
27:06
And so I think choosing tools that allow for
27:08
that is really important that don't isolate students
27:10
but actually bring us together because we can
27:13
do so much more now. especially as AI gets more
27:16
and more powerful, so much is at our fingertips
27:19
and it's almost too powerful. And so we need
27:22
to think about what are the important things
27:24
that are really human and lose those. We could
27:28
lose those. I've just been talking with my son
27:31
yesterday about all of these different things
27:33
that AI has, AI companion and AI assistant, and
27:36
it can help you do almost everything. And what
27:39
are the things that you don't want it to do because
27:41
they are uniquely human? And I completely agree
27:45
with that. And I love your example of John and
27:48
Paul collaborating together. And I think about,
27:51
I give a shout out to my mom. I would say Darrell
27:55
Hall had John Oates. That's a little bit more
27:58
of the time that I was growing up, but that's
28:02
definitely true. And I worry too that, okay,
28:08
like. Jeremy has David, that's great. But Jeremy
28:12
has chat GPT and Jeremy has Claude and Jeremy
28:15
has Gemini. Is that necessarily the same, even
28:18
though I'm getting great feedback and getting
28:21
great ideas oftentimes through the AI chatbots
28:26
that I work with? It's still just not the same.
28:30
Totally. Yeah. And it's not the same. And it's
28:33
not that it doesn't have value, but it's that
28:35
we need to know what the difference is and I
28:38
think I hope you know as adults we've had a long
28:41
time in the education system in real life collaboration
28:44
and I worry more for our students that they haven't
28:47
had that practice at discerning you know when
28:49
it's a good idea when it's not a good idea or
28:51
when it's my idea and when it's not my idea um
28:54
if you know we're working with an AI chatbot
28:56
it sounds really good what that says and maybe
28:58
I lose a little bit of my own creativity and
29:01
voice in that process so how do we use those
29:04
tools in the right way and to make us better
29:08
and not to diminish our creativity and our own
29:10
thinking. Yeah, so when I think about these ideas
29:16
here that AI generates feedback, it generates
29:20
images, it completes responses, what are some
29:25
other things that you think teachers could do
29:27
to strengthen those more personal, whether it
29:30
be teacher to student or student to student relationships
29:33
so that And maybe in some ways, it kind of helps
29:37
to safeguard against some of those sticky situations
29:42
where inappropriate conversations are happening
29:45
with chatbots. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's
29:48
so new for all of us. And it's tricky, I think,
29:51
as teachers and adults to feel like we're not
29:54
the expert yet on this. And it's OK that we're
29:57
not the expert on it, because we can't know everything.
30:00
we have to still teach our students and guide
30:02
our students in this new world. And so I think
30:06
it's really important to be in conversation with
30:08
students about these different scenarios. And
30:11
I know there's a lot of great nonprofits out
30:13
there doing really incredible work around this.
30:15
Like I mentioned, Common Sense Media, also AIEDU
30:18
is one of my favorites, KQED. We just had a group
30:22
of students visit the Padlet office from Half
30:25
the Story. And they're talking about a lot of
30:27
these issues with students. And I think this
30:29
is where a lot of the the magic can happen because
30:32
we don't have to know all the answers, but we
30:34
have to talk about the questions. And so when
30:37
should we use AI? What should the borders of
30:39
that be? When is it helpful? When is it harmful?
30:41
What policies should we even have? And students
30:44
should be part of that conversation also. And
30:47
I think some, one of the things that scares me
30:49
the most is that students are using AI so much
30:52
by themselves because schools have shut it down
30:55
and are worried that it's going to be harmful
30:56
that we've stopped talking about it. And it's
30:58
not that we've that people have stopped using
31:00
it, but that we're not talking about it and solving
31:03
it together. And I think we need to do more of
31:04
that. And I think you were maybe going to touch
31:07
on this a little bit earlier, but I think the
31:09
conversation went a different direction here.
31:11
But since we're on the AI topic, and AI seems
31:14
to be embedded now into many different tools
31:17
and platforms. How is Padlet embedding AI into
31:23
their tools, into their platform, and at the
31:27
same time, keeping it that safe learning environment?
31:30
Yeah, it's something that we're still thinking
31:32
a lot about, but the direction we're taking right
31:34
now is to really give teachers good tools and
31:39
to help them create things efficiently. So creating
31:42
great boards that are really interactive, giving
31:45
feedback on that creation process, letting them
31:47
do that more quickly. And also one thing that
31:49
we've tried recently is giving them more insights
31:52
about the data. So students have posted a bunch
31:56
of comments. They've posted a bunch of posts
31:58
on a board. and helping them see the trends in
32:01
that data, helping them summarize it. So we're
32:04
not doing the thinking for the students or for
32:06
the teachers, but we're help kind of looking
32:08
at the information and making that part more
32:12
efficient. And I think thinking about those things
32:14
that AI is really good at. taking in large amounts
32:17
of data, finding trends, helping you do things
32:21
more efficiently, leaning into those pieces and
32:24
not leaning in so much to the piece that's more
32:27
human, that has the students interacting with
32:29
each other or students giving each other feedback.
32:31
We don't want to replace that with AI, but we
32:34
do want to help ourselves be more efficient and
32:36
find those trends and do those things more efficiently.
32:41
So Zarina, I want to talk a little bit with you
32:43
about like practical padlet Classroom applications
32:47
and so a lot of us, you know, and we've seen
32:51
or use like the sticky note approach where you
32:54
can collaborate. You have these collaborative
32:56
spaces. I've done them in PD sessions before.
32:59
I'm sure Jeremy has as well, but I want to give
33:03
you a couple different scenarios here and maybe
33:05
if you could just pick out that activity or concept
33:08
that comes from Padlet that would be. that would
33:11
help for something like that as a classroom application.
33:14
So the first one is just looking at like if a
33:18
teacher hasn't used Padlet before, you know,
33:21
they're hearing that they can create a stronger
33:23
sense of community through using it, you know,
33:26
and some of the things that we've talked about
33:28
prior. What's an activity that a teacher could
33:32
do that would contribute to creating a stronger
33:35
sense of community within their classroom? Yeah,
33:37
that's a great question. I think One thing I
33:40
love about Padlet, it's very quick and easy for
33:43
teachers as well as for students. I think that's
33:45
important. So I can in 30 seconds, I can make
33:49
a new Padlet board and I can put up a question
33:52
of the day. I can share that link with students
33:54
and suddenly we're learning about each other.
33:56
And that question of the day might be about something
33:58
very simple like what is your favorite food or
34:01
what's your favorite holiday or could also be
34:03
something that's tied to academics. What's your
34:05
favorite book? What's your favorite movie? Something
34:08
that we're about to learn. about. And so I think
34:11
doing those things that are quick and easy are
34:14
important to get started and to start connecting.
34:18
Okay. And then what about for peer feedback?
34:21
What's one of the best ways to get peer feedback
34:24
in Padlet? Yeah, so with our regular Padlet boards,
34:28
you can turn on comments and reactions for posts.
34:32
And I would really recommend kind of doing this
34:34
in phases a little bit. So when you ask that
34:37
question, first you're giving everyone that individual
34:40
think time, letting them post their idea. And
34:42
then you have a next phase where everyone is
34:44
commenting on three other posts. You can also
34:48
turn on moderation if you want as a teacher to
34:50
check that posts are appropriate. Or we have
34:53
an automatic moderation that will just check
34:55
programmatically that nothing looks off, and
34:58
we'll flag that for you. But doing that step
35:01
by step, and as we mentioned earlier, modeling
35:04
that in person, talking about what is kind, productive
35:08
feedback is really important so that they can
35:11
then do that online. I think the reaction thing
35:15
that you mentioned obviously lends itself to
35:18
this next scenario with with younger learners
35:20
and the things that they can do. But is there
35:22
anything that we're not aware of that you would
35:25
point us to if we're working with young learners
35:27
where they can participate in more meaningful
35:29
ways? Yeah, we have a fairly new tool called
35:33
Sandbox in Padlet and people might not know as
35:36
much about it. It's a whiteboard and so it's
35:38
very flexible and open -ended and it's meant
35:41
to be very visual and to highlight drawing and
35:44
can be very friendly for those who are, you know,
35:46
pre -readers. And so you can do really fun activities.
35:49
I have a whole kind of a PD that I've done about
35:52
using emojis for instruction. So retelling stories
35:55
or doing different, you know, things with emojis.
35:59
It can be really fun. fun for younger learners,
36:01
but can really be academic as well. And they
36:03
can give each other feedback with those kinds
36:05
of reactions. They can draw or record their voice
36:08
or do fun things and have a lot of agency in
36:10
what they're doing, but use these kind of fun
36:13
drawing tools at the same time. OK, what is something
36:16
that you've seen a teacher use Padlet for that
36:19
you were kind of blown away by, like where you
36:21
didn't really expect it to be used for that.
36:24
And you were just like, that's crazy. Yeah, I
36:28
think some of the things that I've seen that
36:30
have been most creative were using our map feature.
36:33
So Padlet can be a map. And I've seen some really
36:36
creative uses of that. Some similar ones were
36:39
just having students map their favorite places
36:42
around their school and kind of share that to
36:44
build community. But then I saw this librarian
36:47
who used it to put books on a map. So the settings
36:51
of all the books they were reading and the students
36:53
did book reviews, but then they also put them
36:55
in the locations around the world where that
36:57
story took place, that that was a really neat
36:59
kind of flip on that. And then another teacher
37:02
I was working with with MAPS, she was teaching
37:05
a technology computer science and middle. middle
37:07
school and she had a very diverse group of learners
37:10
and she wanted them to share more about their
37:12
heritage. So she had them each research technological
37:15
inventions from their country of heritage and
37:19
plot that on a map and then they learned about
37:21
all these different things and I didn't know
37:22
some of these things were different inventions
37:24
that happened around the world. So I think there's
37:27
in Padlet there's many visual ways you can show
37:30
things that will really engage students and make
37:32
you think a little bit differently. Okay and
37:36
so then I want to take the opposite side here.
37:39
So what about, what is a common padlet practice
37:44
that you've seen where you're like, you could
37:47
be utilizing it to so much more potential than
37:50
you are. So kind of like maybe it's just very
37:52
basic and you're like, we would love to show
37:54
people how you could take the next step kind
37:56
of thing. Yeah, that's a great question. I see,
37:59
you know, discussion boards are so common and
38:01
they are powerful and useful, and I'm glad people
38:03
are finding use in them. But I see a lot of kind
38:06
of text only discussion boards. Sometimes it
38:09
just have posts from students. And I also worry,
38:12
as you're mentioning earlier, that maybe they
38:13
just do that and never come back to it. And I
38:16
think there's a lot that could be done when you
38:18
involve some multimedia, when you turn on comments.
38:21
And also there's quite a few powerful settings
38:23
in Padlet where you can customize the experience.
38:27
Actually, I have two favorite things that I'll
38:29
mention. One favorite thing is to customize the
38:31
tools that are available. So today, maybe I want
38:34
everyone to comment with their voice. And so
38:37
I'm going to turn off all the other media options.
38:39
So I'm not going to allow video or images or
38:41
any of these other things that might distract.
38:43
And I'm going to focus in everyone on that audio
38:46
recording. Or maybe I'll give them a choice of
38:48
audio or text or drawing. But I'll give them
38:50
a constrained choice so it's not everything.
38:53
All the students are, it helps students focus.
38:55
As we were mentioning earlier, that structure
38:57
really helps. Another thing I've seen is that
39:01
teachers are often wanting students to do assignments
39:03
on a Padlet, but it's not totally clear how to
39:07
do that. We have a feature that's called an auto
39:10
remake link where you can take like a whiteboard
39:13
or a Padlet board and it will automatically just
39:16
make an individual copy for each student so that
39:19
they can have their own workspace. And it's all
39:21
just built into the tool. So we have some. of
39:23
these things that will help you make your life
39:25
easier and do kind of some of the things you
39:26
want to do. And we have a lot of kind of PD resources
39:30
and webinars if you want to dig into any of that
39:32
further. popped up in my head and I'm not sure
39:39
the answer to it but it like if you're you know
39:42
students are contributing these things what's
39:44
the best way for them to retain some of that
39:47
so like the things that they've engaged with
39:50
and you know their responses is there a way that
39:53
they can gather some of that almost I guess like
39:57
a portfolio type of thing or is there a way to
40:00
export things out so that they can see maybe
40:04
growth over a topic or even just a bunch of random
40:08
topics that they engage with throughout the year
40:11
or something like that. Yeah, I think that's
40:13
a great idea. It's so funny. I mean, we have
40:15
been talking about this for a little while. You
40:17
should come work with us, actually. We can talk
40:19
a little bit more about it. It's something that
40:21
we haven't found exactly the right way to do
40:23
to kind of aggregate. like it's that edge of
40:26
like, should we have computers do that? Should
40:28
we have the AI do that? Or should we let students
40:30
choose? So we're kind of experimenting with how
40:32
we might allow students to kind of. pull together
40:36
more automatically some of the responses they've
40:39
done. Right now, you can certainly download things
40:41
from a board and save it that way. You can put
40:44
things in a bookmark folder to kind of save things.
40:48
And so there's a few ways you can kind of organize
40:50
your own ideas. But I think that's coming. Some
40:53
way to kind of bring together all your ideas
40:55
across Padlet. OK, cool. Yeah, that would be
40:58
awesome. And so I think we're good. I appreciate
41:03
all the thoughts and the things that you provided
41:05
as examples for Padlet. We're going to get into
41:08
our lightning round here that we love to do with
41:10
our guests and get to know them a little bit
41:12
more. And the lightning round, the way it goes
41:15
is always you can contribute as much information
41:18
as you want. They're lightning round, so you
41:20
can give one word response technically. But if
41:23
you want to expound on things a little bit more,
41:25
you can. And so Jeremy's going to kick it off
41:28
here with the first one. Is there even what's
41:31
one ed tech trend that you hope just disappears?
41:35
Yeah, you know, we were talking about this a
41:36
little bit earlier, but this idea that AI can
41:38
do everything and should replace the teacher
41:40
and it's so magical and that kind of thing. I
41:43
think we have to pull out what what's human and
41:46
what we really want computers to do for us. OK,
41:51
and so this is a personal one. What's a book
41:54
podcast? Besides integrate this or binge worthy
41:58
series that you are currently into Oh yeah, there's
42:02
a couple that I'm into. A podcast that I really
42:05
like that I've been listening to recently is
42:07
The Good Hang with Amy Poehler. She's from Saturday
42:10
at Live and she's actually from near where I
42:12
grew up in Boston. And so I just really love
42:15
her kind of authentic conversations about things.
42:17
And then also I'm a big soccer fan. So Ted Lasso
42:21
has just started its new season. So we're watching
42:24
that as a family and love that show as well.
42:28
What's a piece of professional advice that you've
42:32
received over the years that has really just
42:34
still stuck with you? Well, one that I have received
42:38
recently that I'm still kind of thinking about
42:42
that I think is really useful is especially in
42:45
moments of challenge or disagreement professionally,
42:49
thinking about what you're personally learning
42:52
in that situation and how you're growing. So
42:55
for example, if I'm disagreeing a lot with someone
42:57
and, you know, trying to get my point of view
42:59
across, instead of feeling really frustrated
43:01
about that, thinking about how I'm learning to
43:04
advocate for my own ideas better. So kind of
43:06
reframing my own challenge into a learning opportunity.
43:09
And so it just makes me feel better about like
43:12
how and it makes me do better I think in thinking
43:15
about it that way instead of just being frustrated
43:17
and annoyed about something. What is something
43:21
people are usually surprised to learn about you?
43:25
So I have a few sort of hidden hobbies that I've
43:28
been doing over many years. And one thing is
43:31
that I'm a singer in a band. So I've been singing
43:33
in a Latin band for many years. I have a few
43:35
other musical groups. Last week I did a little
43:39
show of children's music at a local library.
43:42
So I have this kind of musical life at night
43:44
sometimes where I go out and perform. Awesome.
43:48
So you're from Boston. But you're currently in
43:50
San Francisco, is that right? That's right. That's
43:52
right. So was Mark Twain correct? I think this
43:56
is attributed to Mark Twain. Maybe it's a myth.
43:59
He never really said it. But I think the point
44:01
is still there. The coldest winter I ever spent
44:04
was a summer in San Francisco. Is there truth
44:07
to that? Oh, it's absolutely true. It's so sad,
44:10
especially growing up in Boston, where we have
44:12
very hot summers. The summer is very cold here.
44:15
We've had a little bit of a warmer summer this
44:17
year. And it was actually really funny. My 15
44:20
-year -old son, a couple of weeks ago, he said,
44:22
why is it so hot? It was like 70. And he's like,
44:26
it's summer. It's not supposed to be hot. And
44:27
then yesterday, we were out at an outdoor concert,
44:31
and it was foggy and cold again. And my son said,
44:33
this is summer. And he's totally right. It's
44:37
very foggy. cold here in the summer and it'll
44:39
be surprised tourists who come here. All right,
44:43
Zerreen. Jeremy and I are doing a conference
44:48
tomorrow. You're a keynote speaker. What is your
44:51
keynote walk -up song? Oh, well, I'm a big fan
44:55
of classic rock of all types. And so I think
44:59
I would choose Cashmere by Led Zeppelin. It's
45:02
got that cool kind of driving da -da -da -da
45:04
-da -da -da kind of intro. So that would be my
45:06
walk up song. That would be cool. We haven't
45:09
had that one said before. So David likes to take
45:11
these responses that our guests have and puts
45:13
them into a Spotify playlist. So it's going to
45:17
be added there as soon as he can get it to put
45:19
into the queue. But just a couple more questions
45:24
here, and this is gonna be, we're gonna pin you
45:26
down to a this or that. It is one or the other,
45:29
so you have to choose, okay? We're gonna put
45:31
you on the spot. And so the first one is, in
45:35
Padlet, should you post first or comment first?
45:39
Ooh, yeah, that's a good one. Think I would go
45:43
for post first because I want to hear your original
45:45
authentic idea I think commenting first is a
45:48
nice entryway if you're like not quite there
45:50
yet, but I want to hear your idea first So I'm
45:52
gonna say post first Do you prefer the mountains
45:55
or the beach? I love them both but I would have
46:00
to go beach because I'm just a water person.
46:01
I love to be in the water And then how about
46:04
when you're traveling in the car? Is it music
46:06
podcast? I think my husband and I are totally
46:10
opposite on this. He can listen to podcasts all
46:12
day long, and I love them in theory, but I just
46:14
love music too much, so I just want to hear my
46:16
music playlist. As a singer, I could see where
46:19
you would put that. What about when you're snacking,
46:22
something sweet or something salty? I usually
46:25
am going to go sweet. I like a lot of sweet treats.
46:29
And how about in a plane, the window seat or
46:31
the aisle? I think I would go aisle. I just need
46:34
to walk around. I don't like to feel trapped
46:36
anywhere. I want to be able to like get up and
46:38
walk around and move a little bit. And last one
46:41
here. Are you the first to leave a party or the
46:44
last one to be kicked out at the end? That's
46:47
tricky. I think I'm going to cheat a little bit
46:49
and do a little bit of both because if it's a
46:51
big party, I think I'm going to leave. I'm going
46:54
to be the first to leave because it's a little
46:56
overwhelming. But if it's like a smaller group
46:58
of friends, I'm going to be the last to leave
47:00
because I love hanging out with folks. Well,
47:02
perfect. Zerreen, thank you so much. We've really
47:05
enjoyed our conversation that we had with you
47:07
here. Before we do let you go, we want to give
47:10
you a chance to shout out any different events
47:14
that you might have coming up or any links that
47:17
you would like us to add into the show description
47:20
that you would like to plug or just contact information
47:24
and sharing socials. Whatever you'd like to give
47:26
us, we'll make sure to add into the description
47:29
at the end. Well, thank you so much, Jeremy and
47:31
David. It's been such a pleasure speaking with
47:33
both of you. It's so fun to talk about these
47:35
issues. Yeah, in terms of Padlet things, padlet
47:38
.com, you can create a free account there and
47:40
give it a try and make that question of the day
47:42
and jump in. We also have a lot of learning resources
47:45
at padlet .tv. So if you want to check out webinars
47:49
and PDs and just learn a little bit more, you
47:51
can go there. And then if you have any question
47:54
or if you have a success, a great thing you're
47:56
doing with Padlet, you can email us at hello
47:58
at padlet .com. and we'd love to hear from you.
48:02
Well, perfect. Thank you so much. Wonderful having
48:05
you on our show. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening
48:11
to Integrate This. Want to take your learning
48:13
further? Head over to our YouTube channel for
48:16
quick tutorials, deep dives, and more ed tech
48:19
tips you can use right away. Don't forget to
48:22
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48:25
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48:29
your podcasts. Until next time, keep exploring,
48:33
keep innovating and keep integrating this.