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Shiva & Shakti · Outside Issues

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Eureka.
• 0:01
  Speaker B: Eat and rest. With a little bit of luck, you're gonna need all your energy. Your baby is the miracle the whole world's been waiting for. Shanty, shanty, shanty. Welcome to Outside Issues with Audrey and Patrick. What struck you in the news this week? I know you watch obsessively like I do, or when you. When you've got time for it anyway.
• 0:35
  Speaker C: The national guard in D.C. all of a sudden talk about, you know, crime going up when it's actually down, and.
• 0:45
  Speaker B: Trump and Putin meeting and that Zelensky was not invited or that, like, you know, he's not as really privy to these negotiations at this point. Yeah, obviously, Trump's got his favorite.
• 0:56
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah, Trump's got his favorite dictator friend. And then, of course, Israel's announcement that they're just going to completely take over Gaza.
• 1:05
  Speaker B: There was the Al Jazeera reporter, Anas Al Sharif.
• 1:08
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:09
  Speaker B: Who was targeted and assassinated along with some other journalists. And I'd heard. I don't have the exact number at hand, but something in, like, the hundreds of journalists have been killed since October 8, 2023. It's a war crime. You're not supposed to kill journalists. Clearly. For this genocide to continue, you know, they're going to need to have the media blackout to some extent. You know what I mean? They can't have a complete media blackout, but they need to be able to control the narrative somehow. And so, yeah, that was really disturbing as far as the Trump deploying the National Guard to D.C. obviously, he did. He did something like this in California a couple months ago. I have a pretty skeptical to negative view of our institutions and our current political order, the separation of powers and the checks and balances. I think I've always liked the idea of it, like, most people who fancy themselves, you know, lovers of democracy, but, like. But when you see that it hasn't really, like, it's still shaken out to a status quo that's pretty unequal and pretty undemocratic. Regardless, having kind of this authoritarian takeover of the security apparatus by Trump is super disturbing. And, you know, like, as much as we have disdain for cops, you know, the idea of Trump appropriating the police and making them into kind of like his Praetorian Guard or his paramilitary. You know, that's kind of what the idea of ICE has been. Right. Is that ICE was going to be his workaround. You know, those will be Trump's cops. And he can kind of get around the Constitution when whatever he needs to to achieve his ends. But this seems like A ratcheting up, you know what I mean? He's, you know, for. No, with very little pretense. I mean, this kind of vague assertion that crime is up in these cities, that he's going to, you know, start rolling in the big guns. And that's. Yeah, I mean, we don't know. We know we're not yet seeing like, what, like the immediate, immediate outcome of this is going to be. But it seems really, really bad.
• 3:20
  Speaker C: It does seem really, really bad. But, you know, hey, all part of a fascist day, right? What takes your breath away, like, what, like, shocks you at this point? I saw that the Smithsonian is going to. Well, they've been forced to edit a lot of the history as, like, pertaining to Trump's version of history in America.
• 3:43
  Speaker B: Which is funny because, like, I would be really interested to hear him just tell, like, let's lay it out, like in a narrative form, like Trump's history of the United States. I wonder how far back it goes. I mean, we know that dates are out the window. You know, there's not going to be dates. There's not going to be any like, of that real specific, empirical, you know, data. But yeah, just. I mean, what does he know or care about history? You know, it's.
• 4:08
  Speaker C: He probably doesn't even know it.
• 4:10
  Speaker B: No, I mean, I heard somebody say once that he hasn't learned a new fact since 1985. He's got this kind of frozen in amber. This just smacks to me of like a Heritage foundation thing, this long term conservative plan redacting history in order to make sure that the wages stay low and the working hours are longer and that women have to stay at home and take care of the kids and.
• 4:35
  Speaker C: Get a bonus if you have a kid.
• 4:37
  Speaker B: How's your week been?
• 4:38
  Speaker C: It's been okay. Not good, not bad, Sort of just empty. I guess that's the thing about me and like, depressive episodes is just I have like, nothing in my brain and I have to sort of, like, with my clients, like, I have to sort of pretend that I know what I'm talking about. Like, and I have to like, ask them a ton of questions. And that's exhausting because usually, like, in the beginning of when I'm seeing somebody, which I have a couple of people that I'm seeing, I'll be like, how are you doing? Like, well, how have you been since the last week? And I'm like, they're like, oh, everything's great, everything's fine. Okay, if everything's fine, then why are you here right Sometimes, like, because I have people, it's cool, because Gen Z is really, like, big on mental health. And I have a couple of Gen Z clients who, like, just want to stay on top of their mental health.
• 5:38
  Speaker B: So they're just. It's completely destigmatized and they are just, like, stoked to be doing the maintenance.
• 5:43
  Speaker C: A lot of the times, like, I gotta just be really careful about, like, pushing somebody. Even though, like, I know exactly what to do. I know exactly, like, where this feeling comes from and that. I know this came from childhood. I know this came from you growing up. Like, I know this is intergenerational trauma stored in the body. Like, one week, they'll be like, okay, like, I really need to start healing. Let's get this going. And I'm like, fuck, yeah. Like, let's get this going. You know, I have some people who have substance use problems. Usually it's. It's so hard for people to, like, admit that or start recognizing that. And you know me, I just want to get into, like, the questionnaires about, like, oh, do you feel like you need to stop drinking? Has anybody else commented on your drinking? Like, I get it. Like, you. You're going to be in denial for a while, but that's like, kind of the big thing. And they'll save it till the end of the session. They'll say something like, after, you know, talking about house cleaners or detergent or just whatever. Like, then they'll be like, oh, by the way, like, I wanted to bring up that I think I want to, like, quit drinking. I think I drink too much. And my family says that I drink too much. And I was like, okay, let's explore this. And then by the time I say that, it's over.
• 7:04
  Speaker B: How do you help somebody who's still in that denial about their substance abuse? Because I'll just speak from personal experience. I had a therapist for a long time before my current sobriety. And clearly the biggest obstacle towards me getting better with any of my problems was my addiction. But I just wasn't able to do it. And so there was just a lot of sessions where I would show up loaded sometimes, and so I'd have to leave early or, you know, I just. The devastation, you know, from when I did get loaded, you know what I mean? I would bring that with me into the session. And so much of the therapy just ended up her being just her sitting with me in this lonely era of my life. But, yeah, like, what. What tools are available to you to talk to somebody who's just so deep in it.
• 7:56
  Speaker C: Honestly, the, you know the AA brochure about like, are you an alcoholic? The questionnaire, I usually use that because I think, I mean in my opinion it's like a good indicator of like if you have a drinking problem. Like I think that I was trying to use it today or yesterday. And I think that some of the questions are like, do you feel like you have to have another drink after like the first kind of drink, you know, has your family said anything or friends said anything about your drinking? Do you want to drink? But you, you feel like you need it or something. And whenever I, I don't even remember what it was like trying to like go and see someone when I was loaded, especially meth, I just avoided it all together because I was like, this is embarrassing, I'm on meth.
• 8:49
  Speaker B: Oh yeah, you. So what you're saying is that you wouldn't have even attempted to do mental health, you know, or treatment, you know, during those days?
• 8:57
  Speaker C: No. Which is horrible for me. I use alcohol and opiates and meth and all of that stuff to self medicate. And I thought, I thought, oh, because I've been through so much, I have these mental health issues, I have these drug issues, like I'll be fine, like just self medicating, like I'm aware and knowledgeable about mental health. I don't need therapy. So yeah, I just wouldn't go. And then up until I got sober and I started going to meetings all the time, then I would go back. I mean I, technically I was required to by my iop. Yeah, getting, getting sober is a hard thing especially I also, I think we've talked about this. I tend to like focus a lot on harm reduction first and see where that goes. Especially with people I work with who are drinking to self medicate and then they're not on any other type of medication. And if they were on this kind of medication, they can't drink in the first place because it like screws up the chemicals.
• 10:07
  Speaker B: If you're trying to adopt like more of a harm reduction framework to dealing with addiction troubles, you're finding that you can't moderate, then that's going to be necessary information. Like it's all part of a process. So why wouldn't you first try? Well, just see if you can do marijuana maintenance or just see if you can just stick to all the tricks, you know what I mean? Just move from hard liquor to beer or whatever it is and then, yeah, just play that out. Maybe it'll be a workable program. But if not, then that's also useful. Right. Because you're demonstrating the dead end, you know, that may, may or may not exist to trying to get something under control.
• 10:43
  Speaker C: Have you ever, like, done something like that to like, sort of try to convince yourself that you weren't an addict or an alcoholic? Because I certainly did.
• 10:51
  Speaker B: It was so weird. Like just the way that my, and I hope you won't mind, I, I, I kind of refer to myself as insane. That's just the way that I think of myself as back then. Yeah. Is that my insane mind clocked that I was an addict from pretty early, but I think that I still had this sense that it could be corralled somehow. That like, I would never, I wouldn't have to do any abstinence, you know, full stop from the things that I like to do. But that there would be just like, yeah, just some way to moderate. I think that I was, There was that contradiction. Yes, I am hopelessly addicted, but there's hope in the half measure. And so that's what I think I was working on for a while. And it just didn't take, you know, I wasn't able to drink like a lady.
• 11:34
  Speaker C: Yeah, neither was I. I was at all the Manhattan beach bars, like every single weekend. Just one time I was down at, I don't, I remember that place. But they have very strong long islands.
• 11:49
  Speaker B: Was it, you know, you know, the most like, scumbag coated bar down there and I would go to it from time to time. Is Baja. Sharkey's just the name of it, right?
• 11:59
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I've been there.
• 12:00
  Speaker B: Was that it, though? Was that the long islands of Baja?
• 12:03
  Speaker C: Sharkeys, I think north Manhattan. But this was at the, at the pier, there's this hotel that, you know, I would also go for drinks and I would like, go on these like, meaningless dates and, and stuff to this hotel just to get drunk. And there was a bachelorette party going on outside and I crashed the party and I was just like, ladies, I'm here. You know, and they're like, who are you? I was like, I'm here for fun. And they, they took me in. Thank God.
• 12:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I got the blackouts. I had a lot of those. And a lot of times my mom would have to pull me out of cab or a Uber or something because I would arrive to my destination just completely out, of course. You know, dinners with friends and movies and, you know, I, I went to that, you know, at the Redondo Beach Performing Arts center would show like, plays and stuff. Sometimes I remember going there with my parents. They got us, like, tickets to go see something cool. And I was on something and I just. I passed out in the middle of the show. And then I just kind of came to. Stumbling back to the, you know, whatever the exit vehicle was, and just. I was conscious enough to just. To just be aware of how much I disappointed my family, who just wanted to have a good night out. And I mean, you know, how could you not call that an illness? It's like, I think my intention was to be a part of. But, like, I just. Yeah, I couldn't. At that point in time, I could not live with myself sober. And so this just. This would just lead me into all kinds of weird, you know, dust ups. Yeah, I don't miss it. I really don't miss it. Like, it's. And I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for how, like, unworkable it all was, because that's what got me here.
• 13:54
  Speaker C: I don't think I've heard anybody say that they've gotten fully sober. I have a couple of people that are just doing harm reduction right now, and they seem to be doing okay. Um, you know, it's crucial that, like, we monitor that, though, to make sure, like, hey, like, where are you in this sort of journey? Are you ever gonna, like, you know, completely abstain? Like, if not, like, how many, like, drinks will you have? Let's make a plan. Let's make a safety plan kind of stuff. But, yeah, I haven't really. I've never met anybody sober with the people I'm working with, so that's. I thought that was interesting. I never met. I haven't met a sober person.
• 14:41
  Speaker B: Well, tell me what you think about this. Like, the way I try to describe, like, my illness to people is that there's something that inside of me that I was medicating with the drugs and alcohol that cannot be effectively treated with the drugs and alcohol. There's like a soul sickness. There's like. It's that, you know, know, one drink is too many, a thousand is never enough. I feel like for people who are addicts, that is why they must eventually get sober. Clearly, many people don't. And, you know, some people, some alcoholics, you know, they might have shortened lives, but, you know, they drink to the end of their life. And, you know, it's not alcoholism. You know, an act of alcoholism is. Doesn't foreclose on existence necessarily. It's just a very problematic and painful one. Again, it could be a short one. That is why I, when I tell people about my drinking, I said that I was incapable of really enjoying it because I was always trying to get past the drink that I was currently drinking to the next drink and the next drink and the next drink. And if I'm always trying to get past the moment that I'm currently in, you know, my discomfort is so out of control, you know what I mean? That I'm always just kind of trying to jump, jump, jump ahead in order to kind of like fill this unfillable void. Then there's something very wrong when you notice somebody has, there's something that they're trying to treat with the chemicals that the chemicals are just not up to the task of doing. That's a real candidate for good old fashioned sobriety.
• 16:07
  Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. Especially with the population that I work with, using substances is definitely not just a, like, day to day thing. It's like they use it to numb out. And so did I. And then, you know, a lot of people in Washington have problems with marijuana. Like a lot of, huh. A whole lot. Like everybody. I mean, if maybe people are lying to me, but like, they'll say like, you know, and when I'm first meeting them, like, okay, do you do any drugs, any alcohol? And they'd say, like, yeah, I do a lot of marijuana and I can't stop, but it's okay, it's marijuana. And so I was like, well, you know, we can touch that stone when we get to it. Like, if you're feeling uncomfortable using this much weed, then hey, let's, let's dissect that. But, you know, a lot of people are just very hesitant. You're like, oh, I think I'm fine. Like, you know, I, I just use it. So like, whenever I feel anxious. And I was like, yes, that's when, you know, that's when you should pay attention. I think the most is like when you're starting to feel anxious. You need to go to like a drug or marijuana for whatever.
• 17:26
  Speaker B: Well, I relate a lot. I mean, because I smoked weed every day until I was 31 years old, more or less. And, and, and that has taken me my current sobriety, you know, sobriety date. But like, yeah, I just didn't think there was any other way to live. And you know, speaking of my parents, I took a lot of influence from them. They're huge potheads and, you know, they still smoke to this day and, and they're just kind of chill hippies who knew how to reel it back in when they're drinking or their pot use would get too out of control. And I was just not built like them. I was not able to reel it back in. But yeah, the way that I relate to those individuals you're talking about with the weed addiction is just that life on life's terms is very challenging and very complicated and anxiety is real. And, you know, like, even for this podcast like this, I would consider this podcast like something that's a real highlight of my week. And you know, we had a, we had a guest that was planned for today and the rug got pulled out from under us and so we're just, we're pivoting and you know, we're doing kind of something a little more improvised. But like, I have so much just performance pressure and anxiety and you know, even around this like, real source of joy and kind of like meaning, you know, in my life, it's kind of new. But I'm like choosing to do that unaided, you know, Like, I'm not taking any drugs to try and make, make this reality that I am trying to conform to anything different than it is. And that is like the work of every day of being a sober person is like you just kind of like bake your way through it. And, you know, and I understand why that is so unappealing because it was very unappealing to me for very many years.
• 19:19
  Speaker C: Me too. Yeah, I couldn't imagine, I mean, I would lie and be like, oh, I don't really drink. I. I've never done drugs. Which is a complete lie.
• 19:30
  Speaker B: Well, you used to say that.
• 19:31
  Speaker C: Or yeah, I'd be like, I don't do drugs at all. Meanwhile, like, I'm is like, I have a meth pipe in my room.
• 19:38
  Speaker B: Like, you know, what you reminded me of is those early days when I was smoking weed when I had the glass pipes and I would like, you know, hide them around my room. Yeah, I'm just remembering this. I haven't thought about this for the longest time, but like, drug paraphernalia is just icky, you know, like, it's just, you're. You've got this like dirty resin soaked glass thing or whatever it is you've got, you know what I mean? The bong or like the ashtray. And like there's like a, there's like a side of my consciousness that could look at that and recognize, you know, this is like not the best look, man. You know, or maybe this is like, you know, there's, there's an image you have of the person that you would like to be or the life that you would like to have. You know what I mean? And there's this thing that you're doing that is like in contradiction of it. But you know, hey, I hit that and I'm not worried about such questions anymore.
• 20:29
  Speaker C: I was just thinking when you're talking about like this podcast and like performance anxiety and stuff like that, instantly, you know, both my mental health professional and former pill popper personality came up and wanted to recommend a medication. So it's this medication called propanol. And like it's a, it's a beta blocker. So like it doesn't have any. It's. It's non habit forming. It's.
• 20:56
  Speaker B: It prevents me from being, from being a beta.
• 20:59
  Speaker C: Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, yeah, you're not a beta.
• 21:03
  Speaker B: I could use that. Yeah. Okay. So did you see there's this Christian nationalist pastor named Doug Wilson and they interviewed him on cnn. Sue Ann sent me a video of these like kind of ultranationalist Christians that Pete Hegseth is actually the Secretary of Defense is pretty tight with. Or you know, he's like a devotee of like this, you know, this strain of Christianity. But like, because he's so Christian, he believes. Well, yeah, I mean, just real kind of lunatic stuff. And they, yeah, they don't believe that women should have the right to vote. You know, they don't. They don't think that obviously women should earn the same amount that men do. There's this quote that's just stuck in my head from the interview and I'm going to link to it in the show notes. It's real. It's a real sideshow. Women are the kind of people that people come out of.
• 22:03
  Speaker C: Oh, okay, okay.
• 22:05
  Speaker B: I guess what he means is, you know, yeah, women be having kids. I guess that's it.
• 22:11
  Speaker C: That's all we are. You know, we're just vessels for human life. I don't know if you've heard that song, like, Too Much Labor. No, I'll send it to you at some point. Basically, it's just like we're here to like please men in all these different types of ways. Like being the perfect lover, being the perfect like confidant, being the perfect house cleaner. It's just. And then of course, like the perfect mother. It's like, it's so exhausting to have that mental load. I've been talking with some folks about the mental load recently. You don't even have to like have children to have the mental load. Like, it's. We see, like, okay, this needs to be taken care of. I need to make a note of that. This needs to be taken care of. This needs to be cleaned up. Like, we just see everything that needs to be done and like, our male partners don't do it, but we like, have this like, massive to do list and our brain that just weigh on us really heavily.
• 23:14
  Speaker B: You know what I thought was really cool about you when we started to get to know each other is you're. You're still looking forward to motherhood or, you know, you're kind of like, that's part of your life plan is that you want to be a mom at some point.
• 23:27
  Speaker C: Yeah. Do I do? It's like I need to get past my mental block of like, hey, I'm in my late 30s. I'm going to die soon. Like, because I'm so old. Like, you know, and that's societal pressure too, because. And even medical pressure because doctors and like, you know, OBGYN will sometimes really make a big fuss about nothing. You know, I had, I was speaking with someone at one point who said that her doctor and their. She, this person is our age there. Her doctor said that it's gonna be hard to get pregnant because you're so old and also because, like, you've had an abortion in the past. Sort of this rhetoric that the medical community puts out about women and our age and then in context of having children, it's really insulting, I want to say. Right.
• 24:30
  Speaker B: I mean, well, you would think that, like, the way that they would be fulfilling their role in like, the most helpful way would just be you're giving them the best information you can in light of their decision one way or the other. Right. That's what I would think. Rather than trying to circumvent somebody's decision or kind of like do a father knows best and kind of get them to.
• 24:49
  Speaker C: And this friend of mine ended up pregnant anyway. Like, healthy, healthy pregnancy. Everyone's healthy.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: So thing they didn't take the advice then. Right?
• 24:59
  Speaker C: Yeah. And I remember speaking with her and I was like, that just sounds like that your doctor said, luckily whenever I've been to the doctor, they haven't said anything like that to me. But like, I have this mental block in my head. If I were to go to a doctor now, like, I'm still sort of scared of what like the societal control of medical rhetoric would say about my choices. And I wasn't able to have kids at the right age because personally I was drunk and doing drugs all the time. Yeah, that big 40, like looming for women is Just like, I gotta get past that. That's something I need to work on with my therapist. Like, why do I feel that way? Like where did it come from? Why does it affect me so much? Why does it emotionally hurt a lot? Why am I jealous of people 10 years younger than me? There's just so much, so much crap that goes on with that sort of stuff. And so I need to separate myself from what I think that others are saying or thinking and sort of just go with the flow and what I like, what my own thoughts are and my own actions.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: You know, the main reason I'm jealous of people 10 years younger than me is that they just have more time. Because I understand now what time can buy you, you know, what you can do with time. Now of course I don't want to get too in my head about that because I would be ignoring the massive amount of time I still have as a for, you know, 39 year old to. But you know, I was having a conversation with some friends outside my home group on Monday about having kids and. Don't you always hate. I don't. This ever happened to you when you're just like in a big group of people and somebody asks you just like a very personal question about. He asked why, what the deal was, why I wasn't interested. And it's like, well, is your partner also not want to have kids? And you know, nevermind that I had a vasectomy last year. So you know, kind of, I've made that decision already. Kind of like, you know, firm as firmly and as like decisively as I could back then. But anyway, I answered. The answer that I had was that I was raised with a lot of privilege and I had so many advantages of growing up and everything just went so completely awry at one point, you know what I mean? And I almost like lost my life. I got really deep into addiction and there were friends and family members that were wondering, well, did they lose me? Or you know, was I was this kind of relatively functional person ever going to come back online? And then eventually I did, but I suppose like how could, how could I go through that and then not have some fear around? Like look, this is like people doing everything right or you know, this, this is with all the advantages, you know, it was still a parent. Mom and dad almost lost their son, you know, and like I guess I just like didn't I. I don't have that belief in my own abilities to kind of like keep my kid from running into a power lines, you know.
• 28:18
  Speaker C: You know, the typical sort of line that is valid is like, I don't want to bring my kids into this world. Yeah. But it's. It's interesting. Now you're included in the long list of friends who have decided to be childless. Most everyone from my friend group and at Miracosta and all. Nobody has children. I think one person has a child, but we're just not. Nobody's close to them anymore. What I'm seeing is a lot of people, like, utilizing their money to have these experiences, which I think is really cool. And, like, some of my best friends, like, use the money for things like bold fashion choices. And it's like, I think we've, like, been alive like millennials of this age. We've gone through enough trauma that we're allowed to make bold fashion choices at this point. Going on vacation, like. Like, multiple times a year. Like, and it's saved money. And, you know, unfortunately, because I'm a social worker, I don't have that kind of money. But I'm really glad that my friends do and that they're able to just, like, have fun and be carefree in their marriage and relationships and not, like, be worried about this pressure to have a child.
• 29:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, they're going. They're going full selfish.
• 29:44
  Speaker C: Full selfish. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I really have. No. A couple of people call their dogs their children, which is fair. Dogs and cats.
• 29:57
  Speaker B: Right. I'm probably going to be, like, in that category somewhere. Or I'll. I'll be. I'll be ashamed enough of it that I won't just. I won't just come right out and wear it on my sleeve, but in my heart, it's.
• 30:07
  Speaker C: It's my kid.
• 30:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:09
  Speaker C: Right. And it's valid. Like, totally. They are, like kids. They take a lot of. Up a lot. Like, a lot of your time and a lot of your work. Like. Yeah. I think I'm the only one at left, so to speak, of my friends who are interested in being a parent. Just got to. Like I said, I'm a social worker. Got to get finances together. Like, thinking about all the physical pressure and the physical toll that it will take on me, like, to just be pregnant. Because I've. I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, but I was pregnant in 2015, and I got an abortion.
• 30:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, you mentioned.
• 30:45
  Speaker C: Yeah. And that was so hard to go through. Even though I was only pregnant for, like, nine weeks. It was so hard to go through, like, the sickness and, like, the moods and the physical changes, the weird cravings. Like, I Wanted seafood and I hate seafood.
• 31:05
  Speaker B: I've heard about women craving dirt and like things like that. Have you ever heard about that?
• 31:10
  Speaker C: No.
• 31:11
  Speaker B: Or like metal, metallic, like, I don't know. I've heard that there's like things that the brain tells you in pregnancy to want that. Anyway, sorry to interrupt.
• 31:19
  Speaker C: Oh, it's okay. I. I haven't heard that. But I'll, you know, I'll get back to you once I guess it's happening for me.
• 31:27
  Speaker B: And I've got a jar. I've got a jar squared away for you, you know.
• 31:31
  Speaker C: Perfect.
• 31:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:32
  Speaker C: Amazing.
• 31:33
  Speaker B: We can get so doomer about everything, but like it's. That is a real shot across the bow is like, you know what? I'm going to bring another person into this because I believe that there's some territory to be gained here.
• 31:48
  Speaker C: I mean, you just like make more progressives. Like, there you go.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: Like you're building an army.
• 31:54
  Speaker C: Yeah. Like you just have another person to indoctrinate. Right.
• 32:03
  Speaker B: I'm sure you can see the murder closet that I'm broadcasting from. You're getting over a cold, right?
• 32:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. So if I cough. I'm sorry, you're gonna have to do some editing. But yeah, I've been, You know, it's part of having. Having a toddler and a baby is they constantly bring home lots of illnesses. So I've been. Yeah, I've had a cough for like about a week just. Just at the tail end of it, hopefully, because I need to try to get some exercise soon or I'm gonna die.
• 32:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think there was a virus going around because I actually. For our audiences who is unaware, this is my AA sponsor, Danny, and I first met him during the tail end of COVID I was really struggling in the rooms because I just felt like there was a lot of conservative type guys that I didn't mesh well with. And there's a lot of kind of anti masking, I suppose. It's funny, it's quaint. Now we think back to like the masking era and I just, I don't know, I just felt like there was. There was a lot of fear and tension that I had just surrounding politics and I needed somebody that I could work with in recovery who was kind of on my wavelength or at least could like a, you know, who could like identify with some of the, whatever the resentments and the fears that I was having. And so a really good friend of mine, Josh, put me together with Danny and we've been working on not drinking and using ever since.
• 33:43
  Speaker A: So, yeah, there was a lot of insanity back then, and luckily now, you know, it's all gone and everyone's normal.
• 33:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, everything's better now. But what I was going to say though is that. So there was Covid, but then there was this virus going around that only children or that primarily children contracted. And then you got.
• 34:00
  Speaker A: Got that back then, the rsv. Yeah, I remember being RSV was worse than coveted for me. It was bad. And a lot, A lot of things they said that only they're like, oh, yeah, only kids get this and this or that rsv. Apparently, when I wish I got it, it was horrible. And because they have a vaccine, just came out with the vaccine for it too. But it's only for old people. You can't get it if you're young, if you're like below 60 or something, then. And then there was hand, foot and mouth disease, which is like basically like the plague and is horrific, which supposedly adults don't get. And I got was horrible.
• 34:31
  Speaker B: You. So you got the plague?
• 34:33
  Speaker A: Technically, no, it wasn't the bacterium Yersinia pestis, which is technically the bubonic plague, but it was pretty horrific. You know, your hands get all these blisters that are extremely so painful that you, like, can't sleep at all at night. It's horrible.
• 34:50
  Speaker B: You know, so my perception of you when you go through these things, you know, just like. And you know, you. You work super hard and a lot of hours, and then you're raising two kids and like, you just seem like. It seems like water off a duck's back, whatever, that's like, that's what you project anyway. But, like, that must not be the reality on the inside, right? I mean, it's like, it's really fucking tough. Like the. These challenges that you go through, it's just trudging.
• 35:19
  Speaker A: It's all it is. I mean, like, what is toughness, right? What is something that's hard or like, I don't know, like what, like what is so difficult that it inflicts suffering upon you, right? Like, what is that? Is it. Is it like having to do a lot of tasks? Is it that you don't have enough free time to do the things that you want? Is that you don't have as much freedom to do what you want? Is it that you don't sleep a lot? Right? I mean, all of those things are just things, right? But you're, you're, you know, I mean, this is very like Marcus Aurelius stoic, but. Right, but, like, what. How that affects you is only a function of your inability to accept it, right? That's why, like, it was for. Important for me when I. When you first. When I. My first son was born, it's like, all right, just. You just give up your life, right, basically to this baby, and like, you're just all consumed by it. And then it's just a matter of, like, okay, what can, you know, and in negotiation with your partner, like, what can we take back into our lives, right? Like, sleeping more, you know, eating normally, right? And. And then, like, maybe getting a little bit of exercise here and there, getting a little socializing time. And for me, it was really important to just be able to get to meetings, right? Like, hey, like, you know, it was like, you know, a month or so that had no meeting. I'm like, I need to go to meeting, right? Like, so it's like pulling things, pulling back the important things back into your life, you know? But you have to. If you don't start, I think with like, a total. A total, like, abdication of all your desires and wants, then it's going to be more of a struggle, right? You have to let everything go and then just see what you can take back, you know? And the second kid, it was like that, but even more extreme. It was like, wow, like, now it's really insane.
• 37:08
  Speaker B: Well, what I'm hearing is that you.
• 37:10
  Speaker A: You.
• 37:10
  Speaker B: Like, what really helped is that you didn't have this fixation on, like, a certain expectation that it was going to be one way or another. Like, you're the. The one. The one constant was going to be.
• 37:21
  Speaker A: I knew everything's in the air. Like, here's the thing. Like, I think. I don't know. I mean, I think a lot of people have kids for a lot of different reasons. And. And I think for me, the decision is do I want children? Yes or no, right? And, like, do I? And I. My answer was yes. I want to propagate my family. I want to propagate my own genes. I think it's. It's an interesting thing to do, and it's probably important and justifies my place in the world a little bit more, right? It's like. And once you make that decision, you go with what's left. I don't know. Like, I'm gonna have kids because I believe it's going to be this fun, flowery, like. Like, happy strawberries and cream thing. I never. I never believed any of that, right? I'm just like, it's probably gonna suck a lot. Maybe it'll be nice I don't know.
• 38:08
  Speaker C: I.
• 38:08
  Speaker A: Like, I didn't. I didn't have any conception that in my. I figured it was probably gonna suck a lot. And then. Then. Then when it. When things are really beautiful. Like today I took, you know, my. My kids to the Orange County Fair, and, you know, my son got to, like, ride some rides, like, for the first time by himself and, like, go to a petting zoo and do all these things for the first time. Like, wow, this is really beautiful to see this. And you're just kind of pleasantly surprised by those. By those moments, right? But I just expected it to really suck. And then, you know, you're not really disappointed by it in any way. And what it feels like, I mean, it's just. It's just trudging, right? It's just. It just feels like you're in. You know, you're in a deep mud and just pulling out one leg in your boot, taking one step, taking another boot, and it's foggy and it's cold and it's hard, and you just keep moving, one foot in front of the other until, you know, you either collapse from exhaustion or you get shot, or you make it out into the other side. All I do.
• 39:09
  Speaker B: You told me the other day that your dad wasn't around that much when you were growing up. And so did you recognize, like, at pretty early that, like, this would be an opportunity for you to just do things differently and, you know, provide something that maybe you didn't have when you were growing up?
• 39:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good. Good question. You know, it's something that I thought about of a lot because, yeah, I mean, my. My dad wasn't around so much. My. My parents were never really together, like, much at all. Like, you know, my mom was 19 when I was born, right. So it was a very unique circumstance. I mean, me and my mom had practically raised each other. You know, we were both kids at the time, so it was rough. You know, I think a lot of my independence and, like, you know, just not relying on other things and people comes from that. Right? And it was hard. It's not something I wish to impose on. On others, and I'm sure, you know, has contributed to many character defects as well for me, but it's something that I was very conscious of, like, especially at the beginning. Like, I did not want to be seen as, like, a deadbeat dad or someone who wasn't there for his kids. Right. That was very, very important to me, you know, to just. To just be present, you know, like, Number one. And that might be why I was so willing to give everything up at first, because I had this. And it's hard because it's. It's a negative conception. I don't. I didn't have a positive role model. I remember, like, growing and. And, you know, growing up in San Pedro.
• 40:41
  Speaker C: Right.
• 40:41
  Speaker A: I'm from San Pedro, California, for. People aren't familiar with it, you know, it's where the ghetto meets the sea in Los Angeles.
• 40:47
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 40:48
  Speaker A: It's all longshoremen and fishermen and a lot of drugs and, you know, it's. It's a pretty crazy place. And. And when I grew up, you know, like I said, my mom was young and I would be out with my friends. You know, all of our parents were kind of messed up, and my mom is now sober for, like, 15 and a half years as well. You know, so we're both doing this thing together. But, yeah, I mean, I did. We had zero role models, like, of anything. You know, I didn't know any. Any. Anyone who, like. Anyone's parents who, like, wore a suit to work, who was. Who were still together or who, like, you know, didn't get arrested from time to time. I just didn't have that. You know, I remember my. Like, it was only in high school. I remember my high school girlfriend. Like, she had a stable family, and I was just like, wow, this is amazing. Like, I'd never seen anything like this. And her dad was like, my hero, you know, just because he was just like this very. Like. It just was like a normal type of family system that he provided for and took care of them and, like, you know, and. And it was. It was amazing to see something like that. And I only have these brief glimpses of people or models that I can do after. But really, it's just about, like, you know, just wanting to be present and do the best I can, because I don't. I don't have too much to go off of, and I want to, you know, have these aspirations. Like, one thing that I felt really, like, things where I felt I was missing in my life, right? Like, I always wanted to play sports. I. You know, I had a resentment against my mom for a while because I never got signed up for baseball. I always wanted to play baseball ever since I was a kid, and no one ever signed me up. And I. You know, I didn't. I wasn't really, like, you know, didn't have a lot of opportunities to do things. So, like, I'm trying to, like, get my son involved in Stuff because I felt like I just sucked at everything. My whole life, I never had anyone. Here's how to do this, Danny. Here's how to do that. It's like I would just show up on the street with my friends at 9 years old and, you know, had they. They all skateboarded. I'm like, well, I need a skateboard. And so I think they assembled like a couple old pairs of trucks and wheels and bearings and a really busted skateboard deck. And I didn't have grip tape, so we went door to door and told people that we were boy Scouts. And it was a coffee can collecting money for something until I got six bucks so I could go to the skate shop and get some grip tape for my skateboard, you know, and that was kind of how I had to get my start with things in the world. So I want to. I'm like. I had this goal. I'm like, I want to set my son up, you know, both of them. You know, I have swim lessons that we do right now, ever since he was 8 months old. And I wanted to get him, like, you know, doing junior lifeguards and doing surfing and, you know, I do sailboat racing now, and everyone who I sail with is really good. I'm horrible even despite having done it for eight years. And they all grew up in, you know, like, Nantucket and Rhode island and New York, where they sail since they're five years old. And I want to get, you know, my kids just have some. They might hate it, maybe they'll reject it all later and. But, like, at least you have some starting point in your life, you know, and that's something I never felt that I had, and it's something I want to. I want to inculcate. So, yeah, it's hard because like I said, I don't have an example per se. I only have negative examples, you know, and my dad is. And I love my dad and he's great, and we get along, you know, reasonably well, but, you know, he's always. He was young too, and he's been more of a friend. Right. Than like a. A fatherly figure in a lot of ways for me, you know.
• 44:29
  Speaker B: Did you figure out pretty early, like, in that you had the right partner for this?
• 44:35
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 44:38
  Speaker B: Was it like. And it was partner. It was probably partner dependent. Right. It's like, you know, you wouldn't have really been ready for the kids unless you knew that you had someone solid. Yeah.
• 44:48
  Speaker A: I mean, you have this discussion and you want to make sure that you have someone, you know, who's. Who's stable, which is really important and especially for me because I tended so often to vacillate between partners who were unstable, but for me, which I would find that attractive and stable, but which would, like, make me bored. Right. And fortunately, landing on someone who's very stable and very conscientious and dependable, you know, that's something that I think is overlooked. Right. And. And I'll. If you will, divulge me into, you know, an aside about the way people choose partners and relationships. I. I find it so interesting because a lot of people, especially as they get older, and they really struggle to find, like, the one or the person. Like, they want every single box to be checked and they want, like. They want to have this feeling of like, you know, Romeo and Juliet style infatuation, to just remain and be with them always and to positive.
• 45:47
  Speaker B: And they forgot about the ending of Romeo and Juliet. Yeah.
• 45:51
  Speaker A: And it's. And people have these so unrealistic expectations about relationships, and it's just about, like, you know, like, you really need to find someone who. Who is a good, stable person, and that's often very overlooked, you know, and where you can have these discussions about. And who you can rely on and who you can build a life with, you know, it's just very, very, very important. And I knew that I had that with Nisha.
• 46:16
  Speaker B: What is she. What does she have that you don't have? And what do you have that she doesn't have?
• 46:24
  Speaker A: Well, I have a lot more experience being a, you know, a drug addict.
• 46:29
  Speaker B: Nice.
• 46:31
  Speaker A: That's one thing I actually do.
• 46:34
  Speaker B: I think I do understand what you mean. I mean, that does bring, like, an awareness that I guess.
• 46:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 46:38
  Speaker B: People who haven't burned it all down will never understand.
• 46:42
  Speaker A: I'll know. I'll know what to smell for, you know, and what to look for when they're a teenager. But. Yeah, you know, and what she has that I don't have is, you know, I mean, I don't mean this in, like, in like, you know, painting a gender role sense of it or anything, but, you know, just the amount of affection and love and, you know, I don't know, connection she has with our kids is something that's very special and unique. And it's not like I don't have affection for them, obviously, but, like, you know, there's just something about a mother's love and just the way of, like, how caring a person she is that I think is just very unique.
• 47:29
  Speaker C: And.
• 47:30
  Speaker A: And I'm really Grateful. Both my sons are very lucky to have her. To just. To be able to. To be so caring and loving all the time for them, you know, and like I said, not like that I'm not. But it's just. It's special.
• 47:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, like, how is. How's the state of the world hitting you these days? And, like, what do you think about your kids? And, you know, like, we Kind of. Part of how I got the idea to interview you for this episode is that we were supposed to have a guest for this episode, and the guest fell through, and so Audrey and I just found ourselves trying to be a backup. Yeah, well, no, no, but it was. We were just gonna do me and her, and then, like, halfway through the recording, I remember that we'd had some early conversations just about, like, life goals and passions and things. And she'd always wanted to be a mom. And, you know, and for me, I've decided not to have children. And anyway, like, she's somebody that's very much of our progressive persuasion. And so she's fully cognizant of, like, how. And how much trouble, you know, the world is in and, you know, the United States and the ecology and democracy, you know, but she just. That's part of her progressivism, is that she want, you know, that she believes in a future, and then, you know, she believes in a future that she wants to advocate for, that her child can exist in. And I feel like you must have similar, you know, designs or hopes at least. Like, how's. How you been dealing with all the fear? I mean, because we're. Every day is just. It's an onslaught.
• 49:08
  Speaker A: Well, one thing to remember to keep in mind, right, Going back, was it 26 years? You remember Harvey Danger?
• 49:16
  Speaker B: No. Who's Harvey Danger?
• 49:18
  Speaker A: The. It was Harvey Danger.
• 49:20
  Speaker B: Or was it Rodney Dangerfield?
• 49:22
  Speaker A: No, no, no, no. Was it Harvey, or is it Bare Naked Ladies? I forget. Flagpole Sitter. Right. It's like that. Oh, that really famous song.
• 49:31
  Speaker B: Is it? I always remember Barenaked Ladies do the theme song for American Pie or one of them one week.
• 49:39
  Speaker A: I know, I'm confusing those two songs. Yeah. Okay, now this is Harvey Danger from 1997. Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding the creep is phoning and feeding and I don't even own a TV. Remember that?
• 50:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. 100, right?
• 50:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah. And just remember that, right? Like, it's a. Stupid people that we don't like that are having a lot of kids. Right. So, number one, you know, it's Just like aa, where you think, well, I'm not gonna go to that meeting, I get nothing out of it. Right. What are you providing to that meeting? Right. So like, what can I provide to the world that's gonna make it a little bit better? And that's ideally kids that aren't complete shitheads. Although from the perspective of having a three year old that's been unsuccessful.
• 50:29
  Speaker B: So we all have our moments. Y.
• 50:33
  Speaker A: You know, so that's one. One thing. And the other thing is just, I'm just too fudgeing tired for the most part to like actually have an existential fear about it in any sense. It's just like, I'm just trying to get through the day, you know, it's also an important, you know, from a political angle to the point thing to remember about like the electorate as a whole. Right. Most people are just trying to get through their day. They're not. They have very little capacity to think about complex issues. And so when we think about political strategy, you always want to keep that in mind. That it just, yeah, even, even people who are very progressive like me, it's just like you're trying to get through the day. You're not, you're not really getting too wrapped up and like, how is this going to affect, you know, the way they grow up and how's like, it's just, you're just like, I'm just trying, I'm just, I just want to sleep like more than one consecutive hour tonight, please. God. Like, that's all I'm thinking about, you know?
• 51:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's. Yeah, there's an aspect, there's an aspect of, you know, you got to get out of your head a little bit.
• 51:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. Right. So, yeah, don't get in your head, you know, number one. Yeah. And I think, I think where it does come through more on the local level. Right. And because I've had conversation, you know, thinking about my son's three and then he's going to go to public school and like, you know, a year and a year or two and it's like, well, you know, Huntington beach, where we live is very notorious, like skinhead, you know, Nazi place in Orange county, you know, what does it mean to have kids who are half Indian, you know, in these places? Right. So like that's where it's just. Where it's a little more like, you know, like actually what do we have to deal with, you know, on the local standpoint? And that's scary for sure, you know, because like, how am I gonna have to deal. That's something I'm gonna have to deal with at some point, you know, like some skinhead dad whose kid is some fucking dickhead, you know?
• 52:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the stakes are so enormous and God, you know, like, what an election we just had. No.
• 52:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:23
  Speaker B: I'm not. I'm not happy with the outcome.
• 52:26
  Speaker A: No. No.
• 52:28
  Speaker B: And.
• 52:28
  Speaker A: And I think, you know, and you see. And you see the, you know, the repercussions. Right. And. And there's gonna be, you know, there's. Everything is gonna have a backlash, you know, and I just. At this point, I'm just, you know, I'm kind of resigned to the fact that we're just cooked because no one can get their together on our side, you know, from any circumstance. And, you know, but what is going to happen? There's like. Is nothing is ever totally forever, right? Like, we were totally screwed in 2004. Like, I remember losing in 2004 and thinking like, like, like with, with Bush so bad, having screwed up Iraq so bad. It was already turning pretty bad at that point. You know, the lies were all clear and just, you know, and that was just such a. I wrote a substack article about this, about how stupid that era was and how this era is.
• 53:19
  Speaker B: I love that article. Yeah. Actually, I'll link to it in the show notes. Yeah, that was the first election I voted in, actually in 2004. Kerry Bush.
• 53:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, right. Who'd you vote for?
• 53:30
  Speaker B: I voted for Kerry. And I was similarly. I was in the dorms. I was in the most like, you know, the shit lived den of villainy, San Francisco State University and watching the debates and. Yeah, I thought for sure Kerry had it in the bag and he did not. And I was heartbroken. You know what I mean? But I was, you know, many such cases now.
• 53:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, man. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
• 53:58
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I was reading. Did you read Al Franken at all back in the day?
• 54:02
  Speaker A: Lies in the Lying Liars who tell them.
• 54:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, I was reading Al Franken.
• 54:05
  Speaker A: That was one of my very early political books. That and Michael Moore's Stupid White People were like my formative political books.
• 54:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. And those guys. I mean, I think that there's a lot of truth in what they said and it remains true to today. But.
• 54:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's almost tried today. Everything they said. Right. I mean, it just, you know, it's. It's just that thing where it's, you know, it, there's. It's, it just. It gets. It gets so exhausting because you realize you Just make the same arguments with people who aren't. Like the other side is not a. They're not. They're not. What's the term?
• 54:43
  Speaker B: Well, they're playing a different game somewhat.
• 54:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, they're not. They're not honorable. Right. They're not like. They're not. They're not. They're. They're not. Yeah, they're playing a different game. They're not, they're not really. They're not, they're not having a discussion or interested in discussion on any logical terms or anything. Right. It's just whatever, whatever. It's all vibes, you know.
• 55:05
  Speaker B: I feel like it's a matter, it's not a matter of convincing people on the right to be leftist. It's more about finding, identifying people that are a little. That maybe haven't made up their mind yet that are susceptible to something different and just trying in that way to bring people more just important to remember.
• 55:27
  Speaker A: That those people are not super smart.
• 55:32
  Speaker B: Not always.
• 55:34
  Speaker A: And when we make those arguments they need to be very simplistic, you know. Right. Like. Oh yeah, we tend to make really over complicated arguments to people who are not sophisticated, you know, and that causes issues.
• 55:51
  Speaker B: Right. Well, not sophisticated and also just busy and you know, like I said, busy.
• 55:55
  Speaker A: Exactly. That's why I circle back to you. Right. It's not like, you know, it's not a level of intelligence thing, but it's like you have five minutes to hear anything and now, I mean at least they used to see it on like some news channel that had some basis in universally accepted truth, but now it's just something they scroll on TikTok for five minutes and it's some insane thing about how a vaccine is going to turn your kid gay. Right. And like maybe, maybe this is believable. I don't know. I haven't seen the other side, the other research of that, you know, like. Yeah, and so, and like it's like how do you make arguments against these, like these, these micron eyes, you know, you can't, you can't like, I don't know, it's a, it's a very difficult thing to do. But I, I think, I think what we are going to do is we're going to ride like a big fat backlash. It's going to be very interesting and I, I don't think that, you know, the, the things that are going to lead us to a, A, a return are going to be what they expect them to be. I think they're going to be kind of Stupid. It's like. It's funny. Like the Epstein stuff, right? Like, what's the stuff that actually hits Epstein, man? Like, oh, it's salacious. Like pulling, you know, innocent people off the streets and shipping them to detention centers and, you know, calling martial law in our cities and, you know, having an insurrection against the United States government and, you know, taking bribes and all. Like, no one cares about that. It's just all this a little too complicated. Like the Epstein man, you know, like sec pedophiles. Like, that's just like. It's got to be simple. It's got to be simple. That's the only thing that people can process you, you know, so whatever. Like, our return has to be. It has to be something very simple like that, because you can see what ignites people and what doesn't nowadays.
• 57:39
  Speaker B: You know, a quick impression. You know what I mean? With some real substance behind it. You know what I mean? But make sure that you make the impression.
• 57:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 57:49
  Speaker B: You like Zoran Mamdani? I think he's cool.
• 57:51
  Speaker A: I love him. He's great. Fantastic.
• 57:53
  Speaker B: I read an article that Obama has kind of taken interest in him. He hasn't endorsed.
• 57:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, he followed him, apparently. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:00
  Speaker B: Which tells me, like, you know, he knows which way the wind's blowing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 58:06
  Speaker A: Jinx.
• 58:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, thank you for. For adding your voice to this. And, you know, I. I will not be having kids, but I hope that, you know, I can keep clotheslining Bruce. And, you know, just.
• 58:23
  Speaker A: He loves that. Yeah.
• 58:24
  Speaker B: Teaching him some humility.
• 58:26
  Speaker A: But. And, you know, actually, so. So one more thing. I thought that was an interesting observation, especially coming from, you know, not having a dad in my own character defects. Right. This dawned on me, like, a couple weeks ago. So my son, he's an. Right. And he, like. And he's. He's a walking middle finger. I say, and he. He will say to me. You know, he stands up to me when I tell him to go to sleep. He'll, like. He will, like, will fight and writhe and kick and whatever to, like, get away from whatever I'm trying to get him to do, like, physically, right? Like, he's just like. He will stand up to me, which is shocking. And I go. I remember I had this realization that, like, wow, he's so, like. Like as much of a pain he is. There's a lot of bravery to stand up to someone who's so much stronger than you like that. Right. And. And. And I realize I never had a father figure to stand up to and defy. And I'm like, maybe that's something that's very important for a young man to go through that I never went through. Right. And maybe that's something that builds a lot of confidence, and maybe that's why I lack so much confidence, you know?
• 59:33
  Speaker B: That's a real deep observation. It reminds me of. I got a D plus on my political science paper when I was in high school.
• 59:41
  Speaker A: Really?
• 59:42
  Speaker B: Get this. My high school teacher who taught poli sci was named Marx. He was. He was not a Marxist. Far from it. X. Oh, yeah. Spelled like, you know. Yeah. Groucho and Carl. Yeah. But anyway, he, like. He had this judo move where he would, like, give everybody D's at first to, like, get you on, you know, on your heels, and then he would, like, really kind of try and bring you in. And, you know, he was a tough guy. But anyway, I went home with this report card, and I think before I took it home, I. I kind of pull the teacher aside, and I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna get reamed for this, and, you know, please help me. I'm trying to do well in your class. And anyway, he told my mom on the phone later. He's like, you know, Patrick has a healthy amount of respect for. Or a healthy amount of fear for his father, of his father. And I did. You know, I was. I think it was a healthy fear. And now that's all evened out, you know, I mean, I could kick his ass now. Yeah.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. It all turns around. My son will kick my ass someday.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker B: That'll be a glorious day.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker A: Mm. Exactly.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker B: Well, thanks, Danny.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker A: Thanks a lot, Patrick. Love seeing you, man.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker B: Love seeing you. Say hi to Nisha for me.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker A: Lil D. Man, Have a good night.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker B: You too.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker A: Bye.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker B: Bye.