Latest / The Media Odyssey / OVERCOMING FEAR OF FINDING OUT WITH CHANNEL 4

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OVERCOMING FEAR OF FINDING OUT WITH CHANNEL 4 · The Media Odyssey

• Matt Risley: [00:00:00] When you were talking about that kind of four device approach with YouTube, like it hits people everywhere. People, when you're on the toilet, you're swiping through for a 60 second piece of content. If you're sat in the bath with your laptop on the loo, like I was the other night, you're watching like a 20 minute piece of content, probably too much information. Evan Shapiro: Hello, and welcome back to the Media Odyssey. That is Marion Ranchet. Marion Ranchet: And this is Evan Shapiro. Evan Shapiro: And today we're very excited. We have our first ever guest, and it's actually a special episode that we're focusing on a single topic. We're going to be talking about YouTube strategy for traditional media, in particular public service media and public service broadcasters, but embracing YouTube as a new broadcasting platform. [00:01:00] And Marian, you and I have talked about this a lot. That was part of our predictions with the year of YouTube on TV. Recently, YouTube dropped a report that showed that 1 billion hours a day of YouTube was being watched on TV. And I think there's this perception or mythology out there in traditional media that YouTube is the competitor and so why would you put your long form premium up there and challenge yourself? But that's not really the way this new platform is going to work. Marion, what are your thoughts on that before we bring our guest special guest to the table? Marion Ranchet: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's folks are, you know, torn apart, right? They don't know. Ideally, you want to keep everyone within your own ecosystem and be the king of everyone, be something to everyone. Today, viewership attention is fragmented. And so essentially as a business, you have a duty to be, [00:02:00] anywhere where people are actually spending time. It's not that easy. Each of those platforms have their own code. So I'm excited to have our guests because, I think he's super well positioned to actually tell us how they went through that transformation and made that move because us, we're just talking, right? We're not doing anything, correct? Evan Shapiro: Yeah, right. We don't operate. We can pontificate all we want, but we don't really get in the mud and get our hands dirty. So, without further ado, let's bring to the stage or to the pod: our first ever guest on the Media Odyssey, Matt Risley, who is the Managing Director of Studio 4. Matt, did I get that right? Matt Risley: 4Studio. Close enough. Evan Shapiro: You know what? Come on. You're British. You drive on the wrong side of the road. I op to reverse the words. So let's bring to the stage Matt Risley Managing Director of 4Studio. Marion Ranchet: Nice. Evan Shapiro: And Matt, thank you so much for coming. We're actually not just going to talk about we have a case study here in Channel 4 for how this might work or not. Right? [00:03:00] Matt Risley: Yeah. And I think the headline is: it does work. But the way in which we've got to that point has been quite interesting and through a lot of testing and learning. So essentially to give a bit of a spiel, 4Studio is the department within Channel 4, public service broadcaster, that is responsible for Channel 4's end to end social strategy, your TikTok, X, Snapchat, et cetera, but YouTube within it has been a platform that has really shifted in priority for us over the last couple of years. When we set off about five years ago, it was an important part of what we did, but it has definitely surpassed other platforms over time. And I think to your point, it's because of that kind of merging of worlds and the changing in consumption habits and the growth of YouTube as a platform anyway. It is not just 60 second content. It is not just 10 minute kind of short form content. It's that and more. It's 30 minute content, 60 minute content, live streams. It is everything and to me, at least, the future of consumption habits. So we've been on quite a journey since we started playing around.[00:04:00] Evan Shapiro: So let's roll back the clock a little bit. About two years ago, maybe a little over two years ago I, you and I actually had a conversation on Zoom and I was headed to your offices for a brainstorm around this topic in particular. And back then, you guys leaned into YouTube, you put episodes up there, but primarily it was a marketing scene as a marketing platform. Is that how you approached it back then? Matt Risley: Yeah, essentially a couple of years ago, we put up clips, compilations. We were really trying to drive engagement and viewing in short form around a lot of our linear output. And I think that conversation was fascinating and it was a bit of a gear shift internally in regards to other teams and our collective business actually starting to understand the opportunity here. So since that, we now publish all of those clips and compilations to support our shows. But also we have original commissioning strategies purely for YouTube. We are publishing the vast majority of what we call full episodes. So the stuff you would watch on our streaming platform [00:05:00] or on TV, we're just putting it out as is. And that has seen huge growth for us over the last couple of years. To the, I think working out how to juggle all those things together. It's not easy and it's not simple. And so I totally get why it's a starter for 10, even looking at this kind of beast is quite terrifying, especially for a lot of more traditional legacy businesses. Evan Shapiro: And what was the resistance? Yeah, you're right. It's complicated. It is not necessarily a one for one. You have to approach the two platforms differently, but what was the resistance in experimenting originally in long form, your series, your proper series from TV and the app. Migrating it to YouTube as a broadcasting strategy. Matt Risley: For years, our industry has been wrestling with the idea of "Oh my God, I need to take people from like linear TV onto a streamer." Like that in and of itself has been like, "Oh my God." So throwing something else in the mix obviously just immediately makes people slightly roll their eyes and sigh. But I think within it, it's the worry [00:06:00] that doing so is going to cannibalize viewing, if you're getting people over here, are you suddenly not going to get people over there? When you are a business that has a commercial model that has to take into account linear viewing and streaming viewing, that's obviously has a lot of people going, "Wait a minute." Before we do everything, can we stress test? Can we test and learn? So the way in which we approached it was that for a good year I would say it was a lot of experimentation, a lot of looking at the data on every single show. We experimented with different windowing strategies. It's almost got to the point where it's genre dependent now, what we are doing. So I think getting to the point where you can stress test that, where you can look at the data across these platforms and these audiences and as a business get comfortable with the fact that actually these are additive audiences and we have proved that internally. That, in and of itself, unlocks a gate for where you go next. And that commerciality point as well, it's all well and good saying you've got a billion views on YouTube, but if you can't monetize them in the right way, that becomes problematic when [00:07:00] you are trying to keep your major kind of business going. And again, we've been quite lucky in that we have a relationship with YouTube where we can partner sale. So we sell our own ads similar to how we do it on streaming and linear. So the value that we can squeeze from the viewing that we get on that platform, again, is more than if YouTube were just selling it for us ourselves. So all of those things together I think have helped move the dial internally. Marion Ranchet: Can I ask for your sales team how's that working? Are they selling, everything together now, essentially? Matt Risley: Yeah, so essentially, they go out to trade and when we talk about our offering, it is now TV, streaming, and YouTube. And again, the joy of the data of YouTube, you can start to really get under the bonnet of who those audiences are and how they may differ or compliment. So, being able to understand the value of these things helps us in market. It's also, you know, you see the market changing, like advertisers want more of this, especially when they're focusing on younger audiences, which is increasingly where people are consuming content. So that's [00:08:00] been quite a big shift as well. Marion Ranchet: Are you happy with the data? Because that's the thing, right? When you leave your own and operate it, most folks are saying, "Oh man, I'm in the dark," it's just, it's the system is broken because what counts as a viewer, a view is different, et cetera. So you're happy with the data you're getting from these guys? Matt Risley: Yes and no. Yes. I think compared to other platforms, it is really, it's pretty robust and it's pretty thorough and you can get into the weeds pretty well. YouTube had been going for a long time, they know now what kind of traditional businesses want and they understand, the kind of data. So yes, at a headline level, understanding how that then intersects with your streaming data and your linear data, that's a whole other story, which is everyone is kind of working that out as they go along. I think I, Barb is brilliant now is able to bring in YouTube and linear and streaming. But kind of it's, it's a subset of all the viewing you're getting. So with YouTube, you can get down to that granular level to the point of in a video, when is somebody switching off and why? So YouTube, we look at as step one for my team [00:09:00] every day in regards to how are we optimizing? How are we growing? How are we evolving? How you then make that a joined up conversation behind the scenes. That's, that is a lot of legwork and it's not perfect, but you've got to go at it with that kind of collaborative spirit in the first place to understand how can you join the dots. Marion Ranchet: Yeah. Speaking of Barb Evan, you did a collab with them and you have something coming up again. How much are we talking in terms of the share that YouTube grabs, every month in the UK more or less, do we know? Evan Shapiro: It's increasing on a daily basis. And we're about to drop a follow up study on that to the point where when you look at total, this is just on TV, so this is not four screen. When you look at four screen, YouTube is by far and away the number one channel out there for people under the age of 35, but even for the total universe on four screen, it is a it is a top two, top three channel. So for all humans in the UK for four screens, it goes [00:10:00] BBC then YouTube, then ITV, then Netflix, then Channel 4. And when you look at people under the age of 35, YouTube is by far and away the number one channel on four screens. But on TV, for over 35, it goes BBC, ITV, Channel 4. When you look at younger consumers, Netflix tends to be in the top slot and then toggles back and forth with YouTube. So YouTube is gaining more and more share on an ongoing basis. But what's fascinating about this and what I love about this topic most, is that YouTube is not in the content production business. They are not making content. And in fact, if anything, they want Channel 4, they want the other broadcasters out there on the channel because they need that to be vibrant and relevant in the market. And so, yes, YouTube is really beginning to take up more and more share of TV time, both in the U. S. and in the U. K. and around Europe. But at the same time, [00:11:00] publishers like Channel 4 can be a part of that wave. Instead of necessarily fearing it, they can ride it. Matt, can we back up? So about a year ago, you really did shift your strategy. What did you do? What physically Did you just, did you decide to do, what did you do and what were the results of it? Matt Risley: Firstly hired some smart people. That helps. So yeah, I suppose, getting some people. Evan Shapiro: I think that's part of it, is hire people who understand these platforms, right? Matt Risley: Yeah, the average age on my team was like 25 and essentially we need people on our team who are living and breathing these platforms, not just YouTube, all of it, right? To help us understand how to do things best, but also educate the rest of the business. That's been key. And then I know such a cliche, but data is at the start of every single thing that we do. So we had a year of like testing and learning, putting different types of content out. We understood pretty quickly that longer form content. 15, 20 minute plus, that was getting more reach than other content on a day to day. It was monetizing better. And also, niche works. So we have about 30 [00:12:00] YouTube channels now. They are a mixture of beautiful things. Some are purely focused on shorts. Some are focused purely on long form. Most are focused on a medley of all of it. But I think understanding that you need, free decision needs to be audience first. So of those 30 channels, we, a good example is we had a docs channel that was doing very well. It's up to about 800,000 subs now. But, we realized Channel 4 has such a broad spectrum of documentary content. We can't just fling it all out on the same thing and just hope that it does well. So we have now basically got four or five different docs channels. That hero one is still like cantering away and growing, but we now have specific niche audiences for come adventure content or emergency services content. We found a way to bundle our editorial strategy into specific channels and audiences, and that is what is helping content get disproportionate reach. And then on top of that, we have original strategies for content. So we have something called Channel 4.0. Which is most of that content you won't see on TV or [00:13:00] streaming. It is doing a different job, but it has grown a hyper focused audience. I think over half of that audience is under 34. So we're kind of experimenting with different things, but all of it needs to be audience first. Look at the data, look at what they're consuming, other content they're consuming, work out how to optimize, test and learn, all that good stuff. Marion Ranchet: So you didn't just go in, build a channel for YouTube channel, and off you went. You really built a portfolio of channel, all are bearing your brands, but then you're focused on themes and genre, et cetera. Going back to the long form piece, so what does that mean in terms of what you're putting out there? That does that mean that you're building back to back episodes, playlist type of things? Evan Shapiro: Programming it like you do your channel on TV or is it a different strategy? Matt Risley: It depends. So some of them, I think we've played around with windowing a lot. We've also played around with [00:14:00] playlisting and stitching together as well. So some of it, you can just stick episodes out on the right channel and it will find an audience to grow and to innovate. We are playing around with all of those things. The optimization and the SEO, the end cards, but actually we've got some of our docs, we've stitched three episodes together, right? So you've got three and a half hour episode of something that is getting very high engagement from audiences because they're watching it on TV, right? And they're pausing when they're an hour in coming back the next day, starting straight back up again. A lot of it, we are just sticking out as is, as it were, but optimized and data informed or the right channel. But then we are continuing to play around with how that content shows up. And I think for traditional media businesses, the thought of that is weird, and it's terrifying as well because it's an evolution of content and it's an evolution of how people consume content. But to me, that is the only way that it's going, right? So you need to work out how to play in that space. Evan Shapiro: So double click, just on one thing. [00:15:00] You talked about younger audiences. So these are not duplicative audiences. This is not a cannibalization. You're finding that you're getting a completely different audience on YouTube. And by the way, the data is telling you most of them are watching the longer form stuff on the TV, right? Matt Risley: Yeah, completely. When you were talking about that kind of four device approach with YouTube, like it hits people everywhere. People, when you're on the toilet, you're swiping through for a 60 second piece of content. If you're sat in the bath with your laptop on the loo, like I was the other night, you're watching like a 20 minute piece of content, probably too much information. Marion Ranchet: Yeah, too much. Matt Risley: For that connected TV, like it is, it's, you're getting everyone wherever they are and whatever need state they are in. And I can, I've experimented with it. You can sit in front of your TV at the exact same time of the day, then go into another room, open up your phone, completely different content, completely different duration, same logged in profile, right? But just completely different what you were being served. Marion Ranchet: And talking about the content you're bringing out there, how do you initially decide what you're going to put on there, [00:16:00] right? Are you, cause people, are you going, deep library and then you're keeping fresh stuff for the broadcast or actually you're not? And based on the data, then, you're bringing what the audience wants. Matt Risley: Yeah, I think we start with rights. What are we allowed to do in the first place? Marion Ranchet: That's a good start. Matt Risley: And then, cause we have some rights, some of our programming on our streaming platform, we don't have the rights to do on YouTube, so what's the kind of pool that we have to play in the first place? Then it is marrying it up with who are the audiences we've got and where could this make sense? But we've got examples of some shows where we've published it on one channel thinking it would do really well. It hasn't. Give it a week, publish it on another channel, bonkers numbers, like a thousand percent increase. So that again, having that network and that multi-channel network, your own broadcast network, it really helps you in regards to playing around. Evan Shapiro: And we were lucky enough you shared, you have a report about this coming out next week, right? And you're going to be talking about this at MIP London too, as well. Matt Risley: Yes. I'll [00:17:00] see you there. Evan Shapiro: And we will be there doing our first live podcast. And so you gave us, you, we were fortunate enough, we were actually breaking news on the pod. You gave us access to the data and I want to show, so you started really leaning into this about a year ago, right? After a year of experimentation. And we have results. We have, we actually have physical results that we can share. This is our first screen share on the pod too. So many firsts today. Marion Ranchet: It's going to go wrong. I have a feeling it's going to go wrong. Evan Shapiro: No, there it is. See, we can see it. And the inimitable eShap silly graphic style. You increased the amount of long form. So this is you qualify this as 20 minutes plus. Yeah, more or less. So you leaned into the long form uploads that you were doing and you increased in the year the percentage or the amount of long form content that you have on your various YouTube channels by 81%. Matt Risley: Yes. Evan Shapiro: And then explain this next data point to me. This is, so your total time viewed across all your channels [00:18:00] rose 105 percent as a result. Matt Risley: Yeah, so essentially, exactly as you've said, this is a nice graph, isn't it? Lots of green. We increased our long form content disproportionately. We ended up with more time viewed as a result. And then revenue was equivalent in the jump up as well in regards to that longer form content. But it is, connected TVs is where YouTube is trying to drive its viewing experience. It monetizes better, like you get better distribution. We have seen that through everything that we've been doing, and you can see it on this slide. Evan Shapiro: And you, so you would not only did this viewing increase, but it increased on the TV. So this was, obviously you got more across all your devices, but specifically the majority of growth was driven by TV viewing on the YouTube. Matt Risley: Yes, for sure. Evan Shapiro: And that's, I think to the revenue point, something that, that Marion brought up and something that I think is kind of a mythology or a misunderstanding about the platform is you're out there, your team or your ad sales team is out there selling this inventory. Matt Risley: Yep. Yep. And that has been, has [00:19:00] been a sea change for us internally, both in regards to how we view the platform, but also understand the value of this longer form content. So just exactly as you've said, Evan, like when we go out to sell, we are selling YouTube as part of our whole offering now. And it's, I'll be honest, like it's not straightforward or simple. It's not like you get a view, it monetizes at this, when it's this length and everyone's happy, way more nuanced than that and complicated, but that's why you need people in the data every single day. Evan Shapiro: But generally speaking, and I'm taking a guess here, but generally speaking, you're getting higher CPMs that when you sell the inventory than when YouTube sells it, as programmatic fill, correct? Matt Risley: Yes. Correct. And we've even got to the point now, like Channel 4 inherently, by its nature, is a collaborator. We've always been, we now partner with agencies and production companies to help them sell their inventory as well. So it's really in, in what we do, it's an evolution, of Channel 4's entire business model, but viewed through this kind of lens, finding the audience, working out how to [00:20:00] commercialize it for ourselves and others. Yeah. And then creatively as well. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. Tell me more about that. What do you mean? You're selling inventory for agencies and production companies. Matt Risley: So similar to how we do it for linear and streaming, essentially we will look after the ads, the selling of them across other people's networks. We've started to do that with some people for their YouTube networks as well. I can't go into details because of confidentially, but it's something that it's an interesting evolution of what we do. Evan Shapiro: I'm going to go back and share some data for the first time ever. So this is a total TV viewing for the whole year, full year 2024 and what you can see is this is all people over the age of four in the UK from Barb. And you can see that BBC, ITV, Channel 4, all there in the top five, but you can see Netflix and YouTube there as well. When you look at total viewing across four screens, this is the 16 to 34 data and you can see, YouTube number one across all three years, but growing in its share. And this is the 35 [00:21:00] plus data. And so when you look at, YouTube versus traditional television there really is a dramatically different audience on YouTube, on TV than there is on broadcast, but also your app, you're finding, even younger than those people who stream on the Channel 4 app on television as well, correct? Matt Risley: Yep. We always naturally get younger audiences, but YouTube is that next level down of kind of reach and demographic for us. Evan Shapiro: And then to go back, what I was saying is that I think there's this misperception that YouTube wants to sell everything, right? For a publisher as big and as important as you, or let's take ITV, who's now copying your strategy in the UK, they just announced that. Imitation is the fondest form of flattery, they say, and so you should be very flattered. But YouTube is great at selling mass, across the planet earth, even demographics, but what they're not good at, and they're actually prohibited from doing is selling your channel in [00:22:00] particular. And for the right publishers, those who are big enough, but also who have the team internally, talented enough to sell, they would prefer that the publisher sell it because the CPM is actually higher. You're going to get a better package deal for everyone else. And by the way, I'm not breaking any news here. They've said this publicly. This is their partner's program that they talk about. Although not always as frankly as we're speaking here. And so, the idea that you can go out and sell this inventory and make more money, and discreet money. Then there's this other kind of knock that you hear as well. You have to split the money with YouTube, but if you're not getting the money, all of it's additive. And what you're finding is this is new revenue for you. Yeah? Matt Risley: Yeah, completely. You know, rewind five years ago we didn't make any money from any social platform. And I know YouTube isn't really social, but I'm bundling it in just because of everything. And now we're making healthy eight figure sums a year from all of this activity. But to your point, Evan, you need to start somewhere. And I think there is a, there is an [00:23:00] existential hump that businesses like mine need to confront and then get over to get to the point where you get to feel more comfortable with it. But, as you've said, the lovely thing is we have experimented, we have innovated, we are leading the charge and we've learned that it shouldn't be as scary as people probably think it is, but you need the right people to help drive that forward in a way that doesn't throw everything off its axis. Marion Ranchet: And Matt, if I may, are you able to then see, cause it's great to, access a younger demos on YouTube. But ultimately, somehow you want to bring them in within your own and operate it, right? And so are you able to see how people are actually now, maybe founder of your brand, of your IPs and it's pushing younger audiences to come to linear TV, come to your hub, etc. Matt Risley: Yeah, not directly in as much of a science-y way as anybody would like, I don't think. We have different models and different approaches by which you [00:24:00] estimate that and track that, so like it isn't just a, ooh, we hope, we have different approaches through which you try to understand that. These platforms were built in a way where they do not want people to spend more time off of them. So that existential push and pull and that tension is inherently there. And there need to be models and strategies you come up with to try to understand that over time. But yeah, at the moment we believe it's all additive and we are learning over time how, if that is the default, how you then start to understand the audiences in each of these spaces and start to move them around and what that could look like. But if anyone does have the answer to that, please let me know. That'd be lovely. Marion Ranchet: And the other thing is, the work you've done on YouTube, is there a way to capitalize on that and then, improve what you do on Snap, TikTok, and the likes? Matt Risley: Yeah, I think it's interesting, right? Because all these platforms are changing all the time. TikTok are now sniffing around longer form content. I have heard rumors that there are some remote controls that are being released [00:25:00] in the world that have a TikTok button on them to watch stuff on TV. Marion Ranchet: Oh, interesting. Matt Risley: So I think YouTube is far and away the best CMS and kind of data repository that we have found from working with any of these platforms. So we start there from a start of a 10 and then if you can start experimenting with longer form content and other platforms and starting to see how people's kind of consumption habits are changing. We've played around the long form content on TikTok and it is getting very good reach. But again, it's not currently a platform where people are watching that on a TV as far as I'm aware. Evan Shapiro: But if you look at, if you look at what Doyen, which is the same owner, ByteDance, is doing in China they are migrating to longer form. They're actually commissioning soap operas and they're moving to the TV. So, there is a ton of data and success that they've seen in their home market that I, if they're allowed to exist, they will, I believe transport and export to the rest of the world. So to just boil this down a little bit there, there was an internal resistance to moving and [00:26:00] migrating the Channel 4 experience to YouTube. We had an internal brainstorm where we shared the data and the team decided to lean into it. In that meeting, they decided this is a thing we're going to embark on. A year later, your traffic is up 105%, your revenue is up 78%, and from a dead stop. You're now at an eight figure a year revenue stream from YouTube as an outlet, Matt Risley: Not eight figure on YouTube yet. A figure on social. Evan Shapiro: Okay. Matt Risley: But you can see the jump in that revenue year on year specifically for YouTube. Like it's going in the right direction. Evan Shapiro: That's amazing. So I think, can you do me a favor and just talk about, forget for a second, the mechanics and the specifics of your role and just as an executive, as a leader in your business, what did this process, how did this rewire the way you look at collaboration and decision making internally there? What would be the takeaway or the lesson that you would share as an [00:27:00] executive in a huge established important organization like C4 over the last couple of years? Matt Risley: That's a good question. I would say starting from the same point is so important in trying to achieve the same goal. So to your point, having that meeting where you get that alignment up top of what everyone is trying to do, whether they feel comfortable with it or not, so important. Then I think it is ensuring that you have the right data and the right people to break that apart. Because every step of the way, before you get to the point where people are more comfortable, everyone quite rightly has a million questions, right? From very different perspectives, from a marketing point of view, from a commissioning point of view, from a, Marion to your point, how audiences moving around and who are these ones here versus those ones. So to me, it was super important that we had the right strategists and the right insights, people to be able to answer those questions as and when they come up. And then I suppose it's the lovely thing is the proof is in the pudding, the more that you do with this and the more that you actually start to understand the value of it, the easier it becomes, right? But it is that initial hump. [00:28:00] So alignment up top and buy in from the top to actually say that we all agree why we're doing it and actually getting on with it. And we have a brilliant CEO, Alex Mahon, who has helped us do that as a startup for 10 in collaboration with Ian Katz and various other execs. And then I suppose just really making sure that you. You approach it in a way where you know what you're trying to achieve, but then you have the right kind of checks and balances along the way to be able to understand do you want to go faster? Do you want to go slower? And articulate the decisions behind that. Marion Ranchet: And so you got a report coming, tell us a bit more, where can we find it? Is there going to be more data, even more than what you shared today, which I think is a great start. Evan Shapiro: Yeah, thank you for that. Matt Risley: That's alright. Yes, there'll be a little bit more data. I'd say give it a couple of weeks, probably around the time that I'm at MIP ish we'll be talking about our performance in 2024. Hopefully there will be some other kind of interesting announcements about where we're going next within that as well. Because it's one thing saying, Ooh, we had growth and that is brilliant, and I'm incredibly proud of it. But actually how you continue to [00:29:00] evolve and lead the pack. As you said, Evan, other people are getting involved in the space now, how do we continue to innovate and push forward? Give it a few weeks, I would say, and there should be some slightly more data and some interesting, hopefully, content announcements as well. Marion Ranchet: Awesome. Speaking of London, we'll be there, right Evan? We're live taping our, one of our next episodes of the Media Odyssey. And we have another guest because just me and Evan, I'm getting bored of this already. Evan Shapiro: Oh, wow. Marion Ranchet: So we're going to have, yeah, we're going to have Ryan Asphardt from, he's VP publisher at LG Ad Solution. He's going to be our guests on that episode live from MIP London. Evan Shapiro: Yeah, he was going to be our first guest and then you jumped in line ahead of him. Marion Ranchet: Yeah, exactly. Evan Shapiro: So if he gets angry, we're going to point him your way. But yes we're on the, we're on the 26th at 5 p.m. at MIP. When are you doing your conversation? Matt Risley: 24th, around midday, can't remember, but yeah, around then. Evan Shapiro: It's all on the schedule there. So it's, this is the first MIP London, and I'm pretty excited. There's going to actually be breaking [00:30:00] news there. I actually will be on stage in addition to that with Pedro Pina, who runs YouTube EMEA. And I imagine we'll cover this topic a little bit there. So I'm really glad we got this conversation in ahead of that. Matt, it's been terrific to see you. I haven't seen you in a minute. And just really congratulations on all the success. I think this is a really great, thank you for sharing it with us ahead of anybody else. We really are thankful and proud that you chose us for that. And then second of all, congratulations. It's a great story. I think everybody's going to learn a lot from it. And I think you're really setting the pace and leading the way for this new approach to TV and social video combined. Matt Risley: Amazing. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Lovely to be your first guest. Didn't know that, that's lovely. Brilliant. Evan Shapiro: Yeah. Thanks so much, man. Marion, that was, that was great. That was our first guest. How you feel? Marion Ranchet: I love it. Let's do more of that. Evan Shapiro: All right. All right. That, like we said this is our first guest. We're going to be on stage at MIP [00:31:00] London. Look in the links around this podcast, wherever you're consuming it for a discount code. For passes, our special owned complicated discount code to use. And Marion, thanks. Great to see you again every week, even though you said you're bored with me already. Was it the seven week itch? Marion Ranchet: I know. Evan Shapiro: Oh wow. Wow. Just like home. Marion Ranchet: French women. Very demanding. Evan Shapiro: That's true. Marion Ranchet: High maintenance. Evan Shapiro: I forgot, I forgot I was getting into business with a French woman. Marion Ranchet: Yeah. Absolutely. Evan Shapiro: That is this episode of Media Odyssey. I am Evan Shapiro. My Substack newsletter is Media War and Peace. Marion? Marion Ranchet: Streaming Made Easy on Substack as well. Evan Shapiro: Thanks so much. We'll see you next time on the Media Odyssey. Marion Ranchet: See you next week.