Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / Online Sports Betting + Capital High Regional Seeding w/ Guests WV Del. Shawn Fluharty and Principal John Anderson

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Online Sports Betting + Capital High Regional Seeding w/ Guests WV Del. Shawn Fluharty and Principal John Anderson · WCHS Network Podcasts

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta work.
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Speaker 2: You gotta work. Ry Sign, it's mine gotta show. Everybody
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Speaker 2: is my son. You gotta work. Cry Sin another mind
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Speaker 2: who talk to dogs day line, don't talk.
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Speaker 3: You gotta work.
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Speaker 4: Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Let's Talk is
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Speaker 4: probably presented by attorney Frank Walker. Real Talk, real experience,
0:30
Speaker 4: real results, Frank Walker Law dot Com. Let that conversation
0:34
Speaker 4: begin on Let's talk.
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Speaker 3: All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is Carl Lee with
0:39
Speaker 3: Let's Talk. And I have a group of people in
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Speaker 3: here today. My I have two of my co hosts
0:48
Speaker 3: who who have been I just just so everybody knows,
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Speaker 3: they treat me really bad, and now they're not really
0:54
Speaker 3: gonna be able to job much longer. So it may
0:57
Speaker 3: be a new crew in here. Get you ready. But
1:00
Speaker 3: it's Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odelo. Hello, and we have
1:03
Speaker 3: a guest in the building, and I think Hollis is
1:06
Speaker 3: going to do the introduction.
1:07
Speaker 5: We have delegates soon to be Senator Sean flu Hardy.
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Speaker 5: He is not only that he's an attorney, but he
1:13
Speaker 5: also is a global strategist global governor relations for a
1:18
Speaker 5: gaming company. So tell us a little bit about that.
1:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am an attorney by trade, and a couple
1:24
Speaker 6: of years ago I went in house with a large
1:26
Speaker 6: European company and he was playing Go. They're a supplier
1:28
Speaker 6: in the online space and it's in the eye gaming space,
1:31
Speaker 6: so a lot of people get a little bit confused.
1:33
Speaker 6: You get the sports betting side of online betting and
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Speaker 6: you also have the eye gaming side. And there's only
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Speaker 6: one of seven states now in the US and proud
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Speaker 6: to say years ago West Virginia became one of those
1:41
Speaker 6: seven states. But now they're looking for expansion in North America,
1:44
Speaker 6: and I'm helping head up the US strategy, in Canadian strategy,
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Speaker 6: North American strategy for that company to help you put
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Speaker 6: safe regulatory product in place instead of allowing the black
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Speaker 6: market to thrive, which we have for a number of
1:58
Speaker 6: years now when it comes to the online game aaming space.
2:00
Speaker 6: So as a legislator, I helped move sports betting legislation
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Speaker 6: back in twenty eighteen before past was even overturned, and
2:07
Speaker 6: then a year later in nineteen we ran I gaming legislation,
2:10
Speaker 6: and right now West Virginia is at the forefront of
2:12
Speaker 6: gaming expansion, whether it's I lottery, I gaming, sports betting.
2:16
Speaker 6: We have more verticals available in the state of West
2:18
Speaker 6: Virginia than arguably any state in the country right now,
2:21
Speaker 6: and it does things like fund the Promo scholarship fully
2:23
Speaker 6: and completely, which have been able to do for number
2:25
Speaker 6: of years, does things like fund elderly home cares throughout
2:28
Speaker 6: the state. So where the money goes is vitally important.
2:31
Speaker 6: And just last week we had legislation that helped take
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Speaker 6: revenues from lottery money and put it into vital things
2:37
Speaker 6: that we need in the state, services for our citizens.
2:39
Speaker 6: So you know, yeah, ems services for the first time
2:43
Speaker 6: in our state's history time and we were able to
2:46
Speaker 6: do that because we have a thriving online gaming environment
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Speaker 6: that's capturing all that revenue money that's been going to
2:51
Speaker 6: black market for a number of years.
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Speaker 5: So what's the difference between could you mentioned I gaming
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Speaker 5: and sports betting, what's the different there?
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Speaker 6: So I gaming is essentially online casino games, so whether
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Speaker 6: it be a slot machine, whether it be poker, we
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Speaker 6: have actually have So when we ran an iGaming legislation
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Speaker 6: back in nineteen we became part of MESIGA, which is
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Speaker 6: the Multi State Internet Gaming Agreement, and that has an
3:12
Speaker 6: agreement between states to allow for players on the poker
3:16
Speaker 6: side of things to play against each other. So years ago,
3:19
Speaker 6: there was this rampant black market when it came to
3:22
Speaker 6: online poker. And I'm sure many of you followed the
3:24
Speaker 6: World Series of Poker and followed. Yeah, but back when
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Speaker 6: I was in college, in undergrad and law school, you
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Speaker 6: had party poker, you had an absolute bet, you had
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Speaker 6: all these different betting programs online available, complete black market,
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Speaker 6: no revenue whatsoever, no taxation whatsoever. And then federally, the
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Speaker 6: Bush administration basically they called it black Monday, pulled the
3:43
Speaker 6: plug on it and said it's not gonna be available.
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Speaker 6: So it took a number of years for states to
3:47
Speaker 6: put in their own framework in infrastructure. So when you
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Speaker 6: talk about online gaming, yes there's slots available and also
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Speaker 6: things like blackjack, but part of that also includes online
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Speaker 6: poker where if you're in West Virginia, you can play
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Speaker 6: against individuals in Pennsylvan, New Jersey, and Michigan, for example,
4:02
Speaker 6: other states that are part of the Eye Game Agreement.
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Speaker 5: Now, okay, so I'm glad you explained that, and that's good,
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Speaker 5: particularly particularly as it relates to where the fund is going,
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Speaker 5: because I think that's important caveats all this, So matter
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Speaker 5: where you fall, the funding actually in West Virginia as
4:18
Speaker 5: far as the lottery concern it went to go fund
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Speaker 5: in MS which was never funded at a state level before.
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Speaker 5: So and that's happening all over the country. So but
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Speaker 5: when we talk sports here and a lot of times
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Speaker 5: what happens is what we're seeing. It seems like just
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Speaker 5: the the gambling, the betting culture in some respects is
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Speaker 5: like ruining the sport experience, whether that's for the fan
4:42
Speaker 5: or whether even as for like the players. So for example,
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Speaker 5: as far as fandom is concerned, you know, it's just
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Speaker 5: like they're they're.
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Speaker 3: Constantly at your pocket.
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Speaker 5: So you got to pay for to go to the games,
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Speaker 5: You got to pay to watch the games now and
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Speaker 5: now they want you to even you know, pay to
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Speaker 5: bet on the game. And that seems like it's like
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Speaker 5: every other commercials, DraftKings, this or this.
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Speaker 3: Or that or that.
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Speaker 5: So what would be your response to sort of that
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Speaker 5: train of thought or people think like that.
5:08
Speaker 6: You're still watching. I mean, in fact, more people are
5:13
Speaker 6: watching now than they ever have before, in large part
5:15
Speaker 6: because they got a little piece in the game. And
5:17
Speaker 6: you know, people are betting on sports it's not that
5:20
Speaker 6: they're even betting more, because quite frankly, they're already betting.
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Speaker 7: Now.
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Speaker 6: Is it more rampant, Sure, because it's more available and
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Speaker 6: it's easier, the access becomes easier. But those who wanted
5:28
Speaker 6: to gamble, they're already gambling. And now more people are
5:31
Speaker 6: watching and paying attention. If it's an NFL Sunday and
5:34
Speaker 6: the Browns are getting smoked, guess what, people are still
5:36
Speaker 6: watching the game because they might have some pizza money
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Speaker 6: on it. On the outcome, and actually the ratings are
5:42
Speaker 6: higher than they've ever been. It's directly attributable to the
5:45
Speaker 6: expansion of online gaming. Now, I will say this, I'm
5:48
Speaker 6: annoyed by the advertising as well. And I think it's
5:51
Speaker 6: something that back in eighteen, not just in West Virginia,
5:54
Speaker 6: but past Buffel, when Past Befel, the Supreme Court said
5:58
Speaker 6: sports betting belongs to the states. The state can implement
6:00
Speaker 6: their framework and have at it, and then all these
6:03
Speaker 6: states domino effect. We're up to thirty nine states in
6:05
Speaker 6: a short amount of time. Think about seven years, thirty
6:08
Speaker 6: nine states. How hard it days to get legislation passed?
6:11
Speaker 6: You know how hard it is?
6:12
Speaker 7: Sure?
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Speaker 6: Okay to say that thirty nine states looked at this
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Speaker 6: and said, this is something we want to do. Tells
6:16
Speaker 6: you how popular it is and how ramp at the
6:18
Speaker 6: black market was. That they're trying to shrink and provide
6:20
Speaker 6: consumer protections. Now, as far as the advertising things go,
6:24
Speaker 6: sure it's annoying, but there's also the constitutional side of
6:27
Speaker 6: this when it comes to your commercial rights to run
6:30
Speaker 6: a legal product and advertise on it. Now, I get
6:32
Speaker 6: annoyed by it, and I think there's going to be
6:34
Speaker 6: an attempt maybe federally the Safe Bet Act comes to mind,
6:37
Speaker 6: to try to rain that in. But there's also constitutional
6:41
Speaker 6: examples when it comes to commercial advertising that this isn't
6:44
Speaker 6: probably the area to discuss it. But that's why you
6:47
Speaker 6: see it without a whole lot of checks and balances
6:49
Speaker 6: on it. In Europe, who's been betting on sports a
6:52
Speaker 6: hell of a lot longer than we have, they have
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Speaker 6: what they call whistle to whistle regulation, which means no
6:57
Speaker 6: in game advertising. That's something that a lot of people
7:01
Speaker 6: would like to see, and I quite frankly would as well.
7:03
Speaker 6: I think for your point, like you know, hey, I'm
7:05
Speaker 6: watching the game, do I need to be enticed to
7:07
Speaker 6: go bet on it? While I'm watching or is that
7:09
Speaker 6: just a little bit of a little bit much. You know, Look,
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Speaker 6: it's only been seven years. We haven't had full regulation
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Speaker 6: in many states until recently, so you're gonna have some
7:17
Speaker 6: growing pains along the way. But at the end of
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Speaker 6: the day, it's a much better product than it was
7:21
Speaker 6: prior to passing be An overturned, and it's much better
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Speaker 6: for the consumer. There's more more guardrails in place than
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Speaker 6: ever before, and we're able to shrink the black market
7:29
Speaker 6: and capture that revenue.
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Speaker 3: All right. So for me as a former player, and
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Speaker 3: when I look when I think about players in the
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Speaker 3: NFL currently playing, I think there's there's a there's there
7:47
Speaker 3: becomes a problem for NFL players, former players because we're
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Speaker 3: not quote really allowed to bet right like we're not
7:54
Speaker 3: we can't bet on our games. We're not allowed to
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Speaker 3: basically do that. My only concern is that the attraction
8:07
Speaker 3: of it, and we've seen some We've seen a couple
8:09
Speaker 3: of people in the in the in the past, particularly
8:14
Speaker 3: with the problem is getting caught and in doing that.
8:20
Speaker 3: And I think what happens is if a player is
8:24
Speaker 3: doing that, more than likely he's got an issue. He's
8:27
Speaker 3: having an issue because you know that if you get caught,
8:30
Speaker 3: your your whole entire career could be over. How do
8:34
Speaker 3: we how do we keep players out of that structure?
8:39
Speaker 3: And and again with all of the promotion of it,
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Speaker 3: And again I don't have I don't have any issues
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Speaker 3: with it with the general public, but I know guys
8:50
Speaker 3: who have who've gotten into that situation and it and
8:56
Speaker 3: it's caused it's caused them some some major issues. How
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Speaker 3: do we how do we separate that from actually players
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Speaker 3: betting on games?
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Speaker 6: Well, I would say the fact that they're actually getting
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Speaker 6: caught now shows that the system is working because we
9:10
Speaker 6: have the ability now for every for the Indians example
9:13
Speaker 6: comes up right recently the pitcher for the Indians that
9:17
Speaker 6: the Guardians, I'm sorry Guardians, he was caught throwing the
9:22
Speaker 6: first it was like the first pitch of the game,
9:24
Speaker 6: intentionally throwing balls. Okay, how do we capture that? How
9:27
Speaker 6: do we know? Because there was an influx of bets
9:30
Speaker 6: on that particular prop that red flagged by the regulators
9:36
Speaker 6: and the operators. The sportsbooks red flag that and said
9:39
Speaker 6: hey there's an issue here, and they investigated. So my
9:42
Speaker 6: argument back would be, now we're catching guys on a
9:45
Speaker 6: regular basis that we weren't catching before.
9:47
Speaker 3: So the gaming industry actually caught him.
9:51
Speaker 6: The books, They know every single bet and when there
9:54
Speaker 6: is an uptick in a certain market, whether it be
9:58
Speaker 6: a prop bet or otherwise, even in your own account.
10:01
Speaker 6: For example, if you're betting ten dollars a game, then
10:04
Speaker 6: all of a sudden, you're betting one thousand dollars, Well,
10:06
Speaker 6: that's a red flag, and they mark that and then
10:09
Speaker 6: they investigate and they may reach out to you or
10:12
Speaker 6: pause your account, pull your account, whatever it may be.
10:15
Speaker 6: So when it comes to a professional athlete, when those
10:19
Speaker 6: markets are having an uptick that is abnormal, it gets flagged,
10:23
Speaker 6: and you're seeing it with the Trailblazers. You know what
10:26
Speaker 6: happened there with Chauncey Billups. All of these things, to
10:30
Speaker 6: my view, show that they regulate a market works. The
10:33
Speaker 6: idea that these guys weren't betting on games prior to
10:37
Speaker 6: twenty eighteen is a bit of a stretch. They were,
10:40
Speaker 6: we weren't catching it, you know, whether it's Pete Rose
10:43
Speaker 6: and it took years, whether it's the Black Sox scandal
10:46
Speaker 6: in nineteen nineteen, I think it was the year. You
10:48
Speaker 6: know that took years to come about, and you can't
10:52
Speaker 6: really capture it in real time. Now we're capturing it
10:55
Speaker 6: in real time, and we're flagging it and we're identifying it.
10:57
Speaker 6: And then for those who do have real problems, So
11:00
Speaker 6: problem gamblers represent about one percent of gamblers. Now we
11:04
Speaker 6: hear about a lot because it's it's newsy, you know,
11:08
Speaker 6: it gets attention, But the reality is as far as
11:11
Speaker 6: those who actually have real problems, it's a very very
11:14
Speaker 6: small number. And now, more than ever, we have the
11:17
Speaker 6: ability because now we're capturing and regulating the market to
11:20
Speaker 6: get them help if they need it. And I completely
11:22
Speaker 6: agree as far as individuals who are playing the game.
11:25
Speaker 6: You know, I'm a bit surprised sometimes that we find
11:28
Speaker 6: professional athletes for making millions of dollars and they're risking
11:32
Speaker 6: their career endies on the dollar. It's when it truly
11:36
Speaker 6: they have a problem, right, And it's not about even
11:39
Speaker 6: the money. It's just the rush I suppose, you know,
11:42
Speaker 6: and getting that fix, and they're going to find it
11:45
Speaker 6: one way or another. But I think the idea is
11:47
Speaker 6: that we are capturing these individuals, we're getting them help
11:51
Speaker 6: when they need it, and then we're flagging it to
11:54
Speaker 6: keep the integrity of the game, which I think a
11:56
Speaker 6: lot of people think is at risk whenever all these
11:59
Speaker 6: scandals come up. But for each scandal that comes up,
12:01
Speaker 6: I look at it us. Hey. The reason we know
12:03
Speaker 6: about it so quickly is that we have the mechanisms
12:06
Speaker 6: in place to trace suspicious betting practices and then report
12:12
Speaker 6: on them, investigate them, and then act on them.
12:16
Speaker 8: So so delicate. Blu Hardy, thank you so much for
12:18
Speaker 8: being on the podcast tonight. I don't know if we've
12:19
Speaker 8: said that previously, but I want to make sure that
12:22
Speaker 8: that that gets out there. So you've mentioned just a
12:25
Speaker 8: few minutes ago that you are the head of government
12:27
Speaker 8: affairs at Play and Go, and you also do your
12:31
Speaker 8: legislative job during session, and we kind of talked about
12:35
Speaker 8: this a minute ago, but I just wanted you to
12:37
Speaker 8: share with the audience. How do you how are you
12:39
Speaker 8: able to balance being able to be a part of
12:42
Speaker 8: the legislature this time of year and do a full
12:45
Speaker 8: time job with playing guy just.
12:46
Speaker 6: Like everybody else does. I mean, we have a citizens legislature,
12:49
Speaker 6: and what I like about the legislature in West Virginia
12:52
Speaker 6: is we all have full time real jobs. Now some
12:54
Speaker 6: of those jobs. You can take a take a break
12:57
Speaker 6: during session. You know, as when I was practicing law
12:59
Speaker 6: of my own law firm at the time, there's literally
13:02
Speaker 6: a code that says judges can't bring you before them
13:05
Speaker 6: during legislative sessions, so I could file a stay with
13:07
Speaker 6: the court and not have to go in. No, that
13:09
Speaker 6: doesn't happen with most people, but you have that for
13:11
Speaker 6: that particular protection. So No, there's a lot of you know,
13:14
Speaker 6: everybody in the legislature has a full time job, and
13:16
Speaker 6: everybody balances their time even during session. So you know,
13:19
Speaker 6: my employer has a understanding that hey, I'm tied up
13:22
Speaker 6: for legislative session and it pulls me away. But that's
13:25
Speaker 6: you know, a lot of work has to be done
13:27
Speaker 6: to make sure I get things squared away prior to
13:29
Speaker 6: coming to Charleston. But just like everybody else, everybody's juggling jobs,
13:32
Speaker 6: and just like West Virginia's out there, you're juggling everything
13:35
Speaker 6: right in your time. So no, and I also have
13:38
Speaker 6: I'm also president of the National Council of Legislators from
13:41
Speaker 6: Gaming States, so that's Nickel G's and what that is
13:44
Speaker 6: is a group of lawmakers throughout the country that I
13:46
Speaker 6: try to have best practices in the gaming sign of regulation,
13:49
Speaker 6: whether it be sports betting, ie gaming. When I first
13:53
Speaker 6: joined the legislature back in fourteen, I learned of this organization.
13:56
Speaker 6: It's been together now for about twenty five years, and
13:58
Speaker 6: I am now president of I'll be president until when's
14:01
Speaker 6: that time run now. I think I runs out in
14:03
Speaker 6: December of this year and then my buddy Al Williams
14:06
Speaker 6: will take over from Georgia. So there's lawmakers throughout the
14:09
Speaker 6: country who work for best practices, whether it's consumer protections,
14:12
Speaker 6: you know, sports betting, thirdbread racing in West Virginia. We
14:15
Speaker 6: have like all these verticals and you learn about them
14:18
Speaker 6: through these types of organizations that, hey, what's going on
14:21
Speaker 6: in Pennsylvania, what can we learn from what's going on
14:23
Speaker 6: in Virginia. Who's running gaming legislation now? And build those
14:26
Speaker 6: you know, it's like a I want to call it
14:28
Speaker 6: a think take, but it's a way for legislators in
14:30
Speaker 6: those states to kind of bounce ideas off each other.
14:32
Speaker 6: We meet two times a year and we try to
14:34
Speaker 6: put together good legislation for lawmakers throughout the country.
14:37
Speaker 5: So so again you kind of articulated how regulations have
14:44
Speaker 5: actually helped in some ways, particularly as it relates to
14:48
Speaker 5: you know, professional athletes gambling and you can sort of
14:51
Speaker 5: catch that in real time regarding prop bets and different
14:54
Speaker 5: things of that nature. What would be your response to
14:57
Speaker 5: cause I think what we talked about previously is that
14:59
Speaker 5: now it seems though we have like a gaming culture
15:03
Speaker 5: where you have young guys. It's just like you kind
15:05
Speaker 5: of coming up, you know, embedding and gaming is sort
15:08
Speaker 5: of a kind of a part of maybe what you
15:10
Speaker 5: and your friends groups do do. Yeah, and it becomes
15:13
Speaker 5: you know, it could become hobby or it become toxic.
15:18
Speaker 5: So what would you say? What would be your response
15:19
Speaker 5: to people who say that that's maybe not a good thing.
15:23
Speaker 6: Well, it's an adult product design for adults. It's twenty
15:25
Speaker 6: one and up in the state of West Virginia. There's
15:27
Speaker 6: only a couple states in this country that have at
15:29
Speaker 6: eighteen and up, Kentucky our neighbor being one of them.
15:32
Speaker 6: And I would argue, is it more of the culture
15:35
Speaker 6: in the sense that it's more advertised and it's more
15:38
Speaker 6: acceptable today. I'd say that's accurate. But to say that
15:42
Speaker 6: it wasn't available before, Like I said, when I was
15:44
Speaker 6: in college, I was betting on sports. I was playing
15:47
Speaker 6: poker online, you know, while I was in Morgantown, so pla.
15:52
Speaker 6: How all those things were readily available and then the
15:55
Speaker 6: every times if you'd win, you couldn't get a payout
15:57
Speaker 6: because it was over in some offshore company. Right. So
16:01
Speaker 6: now it's on shore and it's regulated, and you actually
16:05
Speaker 6: have recourse available to you as a consumer if you're participating.
16:08
Speaker 6: But it's an adult used product and it's designed for adults,
16:10
Speaker 6: and our regulations are in place now where that's what
16:12
Speaker 6: we still try to do. You're not seeing FanDuel advertise
16:17
Speaker 6: football games or in the coliseum, like there are barriers
16:21
Speaker 6: in place to try to keep it as an adult
16:23
Speaker 6: use product, much like we do anything else, whether it's
16:25
Speaker 6: alcohol or anything else. We have an adult use product
16:29
Speaker 6: designed for adults. Now, is it more culturally acceptable? And
16:31
Speaker 6: then we're talking about it more often? Sure, because ten
16:34
Speaker 6: years ago, fifteen years ago, if you were betting on sports,
16:36
Speaker 6: you probably didn't want your buddy to know about it
16:38
Speaker 6: or your neighbor to know about it because it may
16:40
Speaker 6: have that identity to it that was like, ah, I
16:42
Speaker 6: don't know if that's on the up and up, you know,
16:44
Speaker 6: But now it is and so I think that has
16:47
Speaker 6: changed the discourse of it.
16:48
Speaker 5: And I would argue probably this is where we were
16:50
Speaker 5: going anyway, particularly when you consider like fantasy football, fantasy
16:54
Speaker 5: sports in general, because I know we would do like
16:56
Speaker 5: the pools and it would be kind of not direct gaming,
16:59
Speaker 5: but it would be associated with that. So what do
17:02
Speaker 5: you see as far as like, what's sort of the evolution,
17:05
Speaker 5: what's the next step when it comes to you know,
17:08
Speaker 5: particularly gaming around sports and different things of that nature.
17:11
Speaker 5: Because what we're seeing now is like I know, for example,
17:14
Speaker 5: ESPN had a book. They no longer have a book, Like,
17:17
Speaker 5: so what do you.
17:17
Speaker 6: See because they had a bad product. It just wasn't
17:19
Speaker 6: any damn good. It was nobody cared about it, you know,
17:23
Speaker 6: And it's so that's just the market at play. I
17:26
Speaker 6: think what you'll see is more of an they call
17:28
Speaker 6: it the omni channel where look, prediction markets we haven't
17:31
Speaker 6: touched on. That's a real issue. And prediction markets where
17:35
Speaker 6: if you saw just this past weekend, they are getting
17:38
Speaker 6: exploited and railed against because they had a market on
17:40
Speaker 6: the Iran war and a lot of insider trading goes on.
17:44
Speaker 6: So somebody made a half million dollars betting that we
17:47
Speaker 6: were going to strike Iran by a certain time. And
17:49
Speaker 6: that's called a prediction market. You want to talk about
17:52
Speaker 6: the wild West, it is. They're and they're offering sports
17:55
Speaker 6: bets as well, and they're arguing that the CFTC controls
17:58
Speaker 6: it and therefore they can make all these markets available
18:01
Speaker 6: and there's nothing states can do about it. There's gonna
18:02
Speaker 6: be a Supreme Court fight coming in the next probably
18:05
Speaker 6: six months, and you know, that's probably for the story
18:08
Speaker 6: for another time. But they're a real threat to state
18:10
Speaker 6: revenues because now even DraftKings, FanDuel and others are getting
18:14
Speaker 6: involved in prediction markets and they're offering these markets on
18:17
Speaker 6: things happening, and they're going too far, so one being
18:21
Speaker 6: in the Iran war currently. Yeah, and you know they're offering,
18:24
Speaker 6: you know, will Will Trump be impeached by a certain time,
18:27
Speaker 6: all these markets that are just crazy stuff. Originally it
18:30
Speaker 6: was it's actually a really good story. So we ran
18:33
Speaker 6: sports betting legislation back in twenty eighteen. I drafted the
18:37
Speaker 6: legislation and as Hollis knows how things work, as they
18:40
Speaker 6: wouldn't let me be the lead sponsor when they were
18:42
Speaker 6: really going to take it up. I had to be
18:43
Speaker 6: a co sponsor, even though it was my baby, and
18:45
Speaker 6: you know, I knew everything about it, but needed here
18:49
Speaker 6: or there. But we offered it up in a way
18:51
Speaker 6: that prediction markets will be available. So what I mean
18:53
Speaker 6: by that is, say you want to bet on the Grammys,
18:56
Speaker 6: You're okay with that, betting on the Grammys who's gonna
18:59
Speaker 6: win the Grammys? Are uka with betting on who's going
19:01
Speaker 6: to win a presidential election? Because we designed and kept
19:05
Speaker 6: the language open for that. And what happened was an
19:08
Speaker 6: operator in West Virginia at the time offered a market
19:11
Speaker 6: on I believe as a presidential election or maybe a
19:14
Speaker 6: US senator's race, and Jim Justice got wind of it
19:17
Speaker 6: in a press conference, and at the press conference they said, hey,
19:20
Speaker 6: you know, Governor Justice, are you aware that the race
19:24
Speaker 6: for US Senate was made available as a betting market
19:27
Speaker 6: in the state of West Junior. And in typical Jim
19:30
Speaker 6: Justice fashion, He's like, you gotta be kidding me, you
19:32
Speaker 6: gotta be kidding.
19:32
Speaker 3: We're not going to do that.
19:33
Speaker 6: No, no, no, we're not going to do that. So
19:35
Speaker 6: the Wall Street Journal calls me and they were like, hey,
19:38
Speaker 6: you know, you draft this legislation. What's your opinion on this?
19:41
Speaker 6: And my point was, we spend billions of dollars on elections,
19:46
Speaker 6: and we have dark money, and we have all these
19:48
Speaker 6: campaign contributions. You mean to tell me the guy betting
19:50
Speaker 6: twenty bucks down the street on who's going to win
19:53
Speaker 6: the presidential election or a US senator's race really is
19:56
Speaker 6: changing that market whatsoever? Like, let them do it. And
19:59
Speaker 6: so fast forward to today, and prediction markets are taking
20:02
Speaker 6: over and they're everywhere, and it's going to be a
20:05
Speaker 6: real federal issue because it's going to have to be
20:07
Speaker 6: rained in because the market's available. You think prop markets
20:09
Speaker 6: are battle, I would argue in the betting on the
20:11
Speaker 6: Iran war is far worse when you're talking about what
20:15
Speaker 6: markets should be made available to consumers.
20:17
Speaker 3: So go ahead, I'm sorry, let me ask this, all right,
20:20
Speaker 3: So your conversation to me is legit, and it's and
20:27
Speaker 3: it's where where I don't I'm where it's not me,
20:32
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying like that, because where where
20:34
Speaker 3: my issue is and where I think the issue is
20:39
Speaker 3: in athletics specifically professional sports comes with that guy betting.
20:47
Speaker 3: Regardless of who you're betting on, whether you're betting on yourself,
20:52
Speaker 3: betting on this the margin of winning or losing. I've
20:58
Speaker 3: always been in sports, and being in sports, betting was
21:02
Speaker 3: always the the worst thing that you could do if
21:06
Speaker 3: you if you were betting on yourselves or in or
21:10
Speaker 3: in general in the sport.
21:11
Speaker 6: Because you can manipulate the market by yes, yes, yes.
21:13
Speaker 3: And and and maybe even I could call my buddy
21:15
Speaker 3: Sterling and say, hey, man, can you drop a couple
21:17
Speaker 3: of those balls and don't get an end zone because
21:19
Speaker 3: I got this good bet, I'll get you cut in.
21:23
Speaker 3: So my question is how does this How does this
21:29
Speaker 3: impact sports as a whole, Because I understand kind of
21:33
Speaker 3: the other situation, but are we trying to make sports
21:38
Speaker 3: betting as athletes who are participating in the sport being
21:44
Speaker 3: able to bet on games.
21:47
Speaker 6: No, there's no league that allows individuals who play the
21:51
Speaker 6: actual sport to bet on them. There's that's not allowed.
21:54
Speaker 6: That's not allowed under nfl PA rules, under RHL, Major
21:57
Speaker 6: League Baseball, whomever it may be. That's that's not currently allowed.
22:00
Speaker 6: And if if it takes place, then they each league
22:03
Speaker 6: has their own rules that apply to that. In all likelihood,
22:06
Speaker 6: you have the chance of losing your ability to participate
22:09
Speaker 6: period and lose your job.
22:10
Speaker 3: See, and that's my that's my only fear is is
22:13
Speaker 3: the dude who is who's loves betting. Yeah, you know,
22:19
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say he's hooked on betting, but he
22:21
Speaker 3: loves betting. He gets out there and bets, he gets
22:24
Speaker 3: caught up, and now his his career is over. I
22:29
Speaker 3: don't know how.
22:30
Speaker 5: But but would you say that, like in a situation
22:32
Speaker 5: like that, because it's it's popular that you're going to
22:36
Speaker 5: see the leagues take more of a rehabilitative approach to
22:40
Speaker 5: it and not necessarily punitive.
22:42
Speaker 6: It's a mixed bag. I think the leagues realize that,
22:45
Speaker 6: and I believe it was Mark Cuban when Pasto was overturned,
22:48
Speaker 6: essentially when he owned the Mavericks at the time, he
22:51
Speaker 6: said that the value of his of the team just
22:54
Speaker 6: doubled because he knew that the popularity would take off,
22:59
Speaker 6: there'd be more eyes and years on it. Leagues are
23:01
Speaker 6: partnering with sports betting. They're not running away from it.
23:04
Speaker 3: And that's question.
23:06
Speaker 6: So do you see there's a hell of a lot
23:08
Speaker 6: of money to be made by them.
23:09
Speaker 5: But do you see a time in which the NBA,
23:12
Speaker 5: the NFL, the NHL, they're just going to have their
23:14
Speaker 5: own gaming, so they're not not gonna be a party
23:18
Speaker 5: operators just become straight up operators, Like this is the
23:20
Speaker 5: NFL bet.
23:21
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I think you may see a
23:23
Speaker 6: blending and you're already seeing that like pretty much that
23:27
Speaker 6: they partner.
23:28
Speaker 3: I mean, they're.
23:29
Speaker 6: Official, you know, organization tied.
23:31
Speaker 3: Well, then you're letting these commercials come through during the game,
23:35
Speaker 3: tons and tons and tons of time, and then the
23:38
Speaker 3: backdrop you're telling me, don't do it. It's illegal, and
23:43
Speaker 3: to me, you know, and I think where players get
23:47
Speaker 3: get get upset about you're telling me I can't do something,
23:51
Speaker 3: but you're making tons of money sending out that commercial
23:57
Speaker 3: all through the games.
23:58
Speaker 5: And I think now like the the rule is they
24:00
Speaker 5: just can't bet on their own sports.
24:02
Speaker 3: So if you're in that.
24:04
Speaker 6: Rub, and I think that's I think that's kind of
24:06
Speaker 6: the negotiation we've seen. Originally it was your band from
24:10
Speaker 6: betting on anything, and now now there's been this kind
24:14
Speaker 6: of compromise where it's like, just stay out of your
24:17
Speaker 6: own pool, right, just stay out of if you're a
24:19
Speaker 6: basketball player, stay out of basketball, if you are NFL player,
24:22
Speaker 6: stayed out of the NFL, and I think that makes
24:24
Speaker 6: sense because look, regardless of what your job is, there's
24:27
Speaker 6: things you can and cannot do. And just because you
24:30
Speaker 6: enjoy betting doesn't mean you should be allowed to do
24:32
Speaker 6: it to maintain your profession, much like anything else. If
24:35
Speaker 6: you like drinking, it doesn't mean you can drink and
24:36
Speaker 6: get behind the wheel of a car if you're a
24:38
Speaker 6: bus driver. Like there's all. There's all kinds of things
24:41
Speaker 6: say you can and cannot do.
24:42
Speaker 3: And the trouble, the trouble with me not being able
24:46
Speaker 3: to quote me not being able to do basketball because
24:49
Speaker 3: I'm playing football, Hollis is playing basketball. Me and him
24:53
Speaker 3: are like this, you know, I'm gonna be able to
24:57
Speaker 3: at some point time. We're gonna work this deal where
24:59
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm gonna be betting somewhat through him.
25:03
Speaker 3: So that's I don't know, and I don't know how.
25:05
Speaker 6: You That's all proxy betting, and proxy betting is not legal,
25:09
Speaker 6: and there are ways that people discover proxy betting, and
25:12
Speaker 6: I think many people would point to the show Hey
25:15
Speaker 6: O Tawni scandal as potential proxy betting. Now they never
25:19
Speaker 6: found direct evidence that he was participating, but but you know,
25:25
Speaker 6: a lot of you cannot proxy bet that's under every
25:28
Speaker 6: gaming regulator in the country. That's not allowed because that's
25:31
Speaker 6: you know, opening a door for all kinds of frivolous activity,
25:34
Speaker 6: and it's usually discoverable and usually it's found out. And
25:36
Speaker 6: the Otani example is a prime one. Right, how does
25:39
Speaker 6: one discover that? Well, there are some improprieties in the
25:43
Speaker 6: betting markets and they were flagged. So you know, as
25:47
Speaker 6: this becomes more popular and more rampant, there's more eyes,
25:49
Speaker 6: ears and technology on sports betting. It becomes so advanced
25:53
Speaker 6: that it's going to be almost impossible for these individuals
25:57
Speaker 6: to get away with it. And would I'll say, with
25:59
Speaker 6: the prop bets And that's the one where the Ncuble
26:01
Speaker 6: day NCUBA has come out and said they don't like
26:03
Speaker 6: prop betting. Yeah, and other other groups have come out
26:06
Speaker 6: so they don't like prop betting. So what many books
26:08
Speaker 6: are doing on their own is they're capping the bet.
26:12
Speaker 6: So if you want to bet on props, you when
26:15
Speaker 6: it was first introduced, you may be able to get
26:16
Speaker 6: down for thousands of dollars on a prop bet, and
26:19
Speaker 6: now you're not. It's gonna be capped at fifty bucks
26:21
Speaker 6: one hundred bucks, whatever it may be. So to your point,
26:24
Speaker 6: if you're going through somebody else, you're gonna have to
26:26
Speaker 6: go through like a pool of people. You're gonna have
26:28
Speaker 6: to go through three hundred people instead of one individual
26:31
Speaker 6: to get down at a margin. That's gonna make sense
26:34
Speaker 6: to you. So that's that's what operators are doing on
26:36
Speaker 6: their own accord, without a state telling them to do that.
26:39
Speaker 6: They've looked at it and said, yeah, you know, prop
26:41
Speaker 6: betting is very popular, we don't want to lose it altogether, right,
26:45
Speaker 6: so let's figure out a way that we can allow
26:47
Speaker 6: it to continue, but do so with the right guardrails
26:50
Speaker 6: in place.
26:50
Speaker 5: Now, now, how I know the nc DOUBLEA they sort
26:53
Speaker 5: of I don't know if they totally eliminated prop bets,
26:56
Speaker 5: but some of the leagues have sort of stopped some
26:58
Speaker 5: of them, so you can't it's not the why variety
27:01
Speaker 5: like it once was.
27:02
Speaker 3: Am I correct?
27:02
Speaker 6: Then they've the NCAA came out and I think they
27:05
Speaker 6: wrote like an opinion letter on you know, prop bets,
27:08
Speaker 6: and then some states have taken direct market action through
27:11
Speaker 6: the regulatory process. I don't think elimiting them altogether is
27:14
Speaker 6: the right play, because they're still gonna be available in
27:16
Speaker 6: the black market, right you're gonna start pushing people off.
27:20
Speaker 6: It's how do you get the right guardrails in place?
27:21
Speaker 6: So in West Virginia you can bet on props, but
27:24
Speaker 6: you can't in Ohio. So if I'm in Ohio and
27:27
Speaker 6: I want to bet a prop, what am I gonna do?
27:29
Speaker 6: I'm gonna get online and I'm gonna go to Balvada
27:33
Speaker 6: or whatever offshore account is available and get down there
27:36
Speaker 6: instead of getting down on fandel or bet three sixty five,
27:40
Speaker 6: whoever it may be.
27:41
Speaker 8: So that was something I wanted to bring up quickly.
27:44
Speaker 8: Delegate blue Hardy, is you have you have alluded to
27:47
Speaker 8: the offshore accounts in the black market. A lot of
27:50
Speaker 8: our audience may not be so familiar with what that
27:54
Speaker 8: entails when it comes to iGaming, can you kind of
27:56
Speaker 8: explain what those on I gaming well or sports betting
28:00
Speaker 8: betting either or sure gaming or sports betting.
28:03
Speaker 6: So there are and we've gone after on the iGaming
28:05
Speaker 6: side in West Virginia, Aritarity General JB. Mccusky actually went
28:10
Speaker 6: after many companies that are operating in West Virginia illegally
28:13
Speaker 6: they're offshore because we've licensed it we've regulated. These companies
28:17
Speaker 6: pay a lot of money to get up and running,
28:20
Speaker 6: and so the idea that you can allow these illegal
28:23
Speaker 6: operators from offshore accounts access in West Virginia as a
28:26
Speaker 6: consumer protection issue, and he went after them and did
28:29
Speaker 6: a great job, and I believe nineteen to twenty operators
28:32
Speaker 6: pulled out of the state. They're no longer operating. Same
28:34
Speaker 6: goes with sports betting, and you know a lot of
28:38
Speaker 6: consumers don't even realize they may be on an illegal book.
28:41
Speaker 6: They think if they have access to it, which you
28:43
Speaker 6: do in every state, it's therefore regulated and legal. And
28:47
Speaker 6: that's again why advertising kind of helps in that circumstance,
28:51
Speaker 6: because you're not going to see an advertisement for these
28:54
Speaker 6: companies on TV because they are illegal, But you could
28:57
Speaker 6: still access them online if you sought them out hard enough.
29:01
Speaker 6: But if you're a consumer and you know that Fandel
29:05
Speaker 6: is a West Virginia Lottery licensed operator, you feel more
29:09
Speaker 6: comfortable going to Fandle or any other operator that's licensed
29:12
Speaker 6: through West Virginia Lottery. Now, if you're online and you
29:15
Speaker 6: just google West Virginia sports betting, you may see ads.
29:19
Speaker 6: You probably have to go to a couple pages deep.
29:20
Speaker 6: These days on Google, but you may see websites you
29:23
Speaker 6: could access and those websites are offshore and they're not
29:28
Speaker 6: gonna have the same consumer protections in place that the
29:30
Speaker 6: current onshore regulated markets have.
29:33
Speaker 3: Makes sense, well, deligate flu hardy man.
29:35
Speaker 5: It has been educational, it's been a good edification on gambling.
29:39
Speaker 3: Yes, and it makes more sense to me. So I
29:44
Speaker 3: can even make the case like that was that was
29:46
Speaker 3: informative for me. It just it just always as soon
29:50
Speaker 3: as when I start hearing those kinds of conversations, my
29:53
Speaker 3: first thought is like, well, you know, the League is
29:55
Speaker 3: just letting us do They're letting people do it anyway,
29:58
Speaker 3: you know, and then you go when then when they're caught,
30:02
Speaker 3: you're going to be like, oh, we're so anti this,
30:04
Speaker 3: We're going after and it's just it's just it's been
30:07
Speaker 3: shady to me. But I think that which is coming
30:10
Speaker 3: across with the commercials and all it.
30:11
Speaker 8: So it's like you just said, I don't think the
30:15
Speaker 8: lay layman understands that these regulations are good things, that
30:19
Speaker 8: it's protecting you from the offshore you know accounts and
30:23
Speaker 8: the illegal you know betting, the broken knees.
30:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, these are these offshore. That's right. It's it's
30:31
Speaker 6: not smoke filled back rooms anymore. It's not smoke filled
30:33
Speaker 6: back rooms, nor should it be a nor should we
30:35
Speaker 6: treated as that. But you know, to your point, these
30:38
Speaker 6: offshore accounts, they don't care if you're a problem gambler,
30:41
Speaker 6: if you have that spikey I just I discussed earlier
30:44
Speaker 6: that you were betting ten dollars. Now you're betting thousands.
30:46
Speaker 6: They don't care. They'll take your money. Oh you want
30:48
Speaker 6: to bet on props, we don't care. We'll take your money.
30:51
Speaker 6: And regulated, these these licensees, these license holders who care.
30:56
Speaker 6: They don't want you to have a betting problem, become
30:59
Speaker 6: a problem gambler.
31:00
Speaker 7: Right.
31:00
Speaker 6: They want this to be entertainment because entertainment has longevity problem.
31:05
Speaker 6: Gambling does not. And so that's that's a huge difference
31:08
Speaker 6: between onshore, regulated, sustainable versus let's just take that money.
31:13
Speaker 8: Yeah, give me that shady shady Hey.
31:15
Speaker 5: So we're gon, we're gonna go to a break. I mean,
31:17
Speaker 5: if you want to hang out, you welcome to. And
31:19
Speaker 5: if you gotta go, that's cool too. So we got
31:21
Speaker 5: about thirty more minutes, so we'll take a commercial.
31:24
Speaker 3: Yep, we ladies and gentlemen, We'll be right back.
31:26
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32:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta work, You gotta work right.
32:26
Speaker 2: Sign it's mine, gotta show everybody is mine. Sign can't here,
32:29
Speaker 2: you gotta burn cry sign another mind sogging dog day line,
32:34
Speaker 2: don't tell you gotta burt.
32:37
Speaker 4: Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Let's talk is
32:40
Speaker 4: probably presented by Attorney Frank Walker. Real talk, real experience,
32:44
Speaker 4: real results, Frank Walker Law dot com. Let that conversation
32:48
Speaker 4: begin on Let's talk.
32:50
Speaker 5: All right, welcome back, Let's talk with Carlee. We just
32:54
Speaker 5: had Delicate flu Herty. He's breaking down the whole gambling
32:56
Speaker 5: thing to us. Uh, very very very I learnt a lot. No, Lie,
33:01
Speaker 5: I'm still not sold, but I learned it. I'm still
33:03
Speaker 5: not going to gamble, but you definitely gave us a
33:05
Speaker 5: good edification on how it's actually can be a good
33:08
Speaker 5: thing as far as regulatory process we now have. Now,
33:12
Speaker 5: are your principal at Capitol High School? Correct, Yes, Sir,
33:17
Speaker 5: Principal John Anderson at Capitol High School. He's here to
33:20
Speaker 5: talk about the situation that's going on with Capitol High School. Now,
33:23
Speaker 5: just to give a little context and I'll let you go,
33:25
Speaker 5: Prince wall Anderson, Capitol High has been the perennial number one,
33:29
Speaker 5: number two team in the state at the three to
33:33
Speaker 5: A level. They've been a very very good team. Now,
33:35
Speaker 5: what happened was, you guys were four A last year.
33:38
Speaker 5: You got bumped to three eight this year, but you're
33:41
Speaker 5: still played a four A schedules, which means that you
33:44
Speaker 5: didn't play a lot of teams within your quote unquote region.
33:48
Speaker 5: But again, you beat the defending state champs, had a
33:51
Speaker 5: very successful seventeen and four seasons. However, in the regional
33:55
Speaker 5: you got placed at number six or seven in the
33:58
Speaker 5: regional ranking. So could you break down kind of what
34:02
Speaker 5: happened and where we.
34:03
Speaker 3: At with that?
34:05
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, here's kind of the whole scenario of what happened.
34:08
Speaker 7: There's eight teams in our region, so you go in
34:13
Speaker 7: and you rank the teams. You don't rank your own team,
34:15
Speaker 7: so you rank everybody else Herbert Hoover, Nicholas County, and
34:22
Speaker 7: there was one other one ranked us number one in
34:25
Speaker 7: our region. Ripley, ripley, Yes, ripley, and want to I
34:29
Speaker 7: want to give kudos to all in school. Like you
34:32
Speaker 7: guys said earlier, we're seventeen and four. We're currently ranked
34:35
Speaker 7: two in the state. We've been one for about two
34:37
Speaker 7: and a half months. We played Triple A teams like Bridgeport,
34:41
Speaker 7: we played Chapmanville, we played GW, we played Parkersburg South.
34:46
Speaker 7: As our coach Cookie Miller says, we don't duck the smoke.
34:49
Speaker 7: We play everything the state. So we had four teams
34:54
Speaker 7: in our region, which were pike View, Princeton, Shady Springs, Murray.
35:04
Speaker 7: So I'm sorry, I don't have all my notes right now,
35:06
Speaker 7: and you're fine.
35:06
Speaker 3: I'm happy out.
35:07
Speaker 7: They all rated the seventh in the state. They rated
35:10
Speaker 7: us as low as we possibly did. We played zero
35:13
Speaker 7: regional games because we play in the m S A
35:16
Speaker 7: C and we switched from a four A scheduled to
35:18
Speaker 7: a three A schedule. So when that happened, we didn't
35:21
Speaker 7: have opportunities to We could have went the games and
35:24
Speaker 7: done games with like Pike View and Nicholas County, but
35:27
Speaker 7: we had some opportunities for our kids to go visit colleges,
35:29
Speaker 7: to go out of state, things that for us were
35:32
Speaker 7: more valuable to playing these regional games. Now take into
35:35
Speaker 7: consideration when you're ranking these it's not based on your
35:38
Speaker 7: your regional record. It's based on who you feel the
35:41
Speaker 7: best team in your region is.
35:42
Speaker 5: Oh okay, so let's let's put a pinning right there.
35:45
Speaker 5: So because from my understanding, I thought it was based
35:48
Speaker 5: on your regional record. That's why that's why they rate
35:52
Speaker 5: you lower. So it's just based off your.
35:54
Speaker 7: Record that is there. That is their excuse, and that's
35:57
Speaker 7: one thing you could consider in that, but the but
35:59
Speaker 7: the main thing is ranking your top eighteens. I mean,
36:04
Speaker 7: you know, I did my research our coaches and they
36:06
Speaker 7: collaborated with us. That's part of the problem too. Here
36:09
Speaker 7: you got you got people who are taking its first off,
36:12
Speaker 7: I will say, it's disheartening from a capital standpoint for
36:15
Speaker 7: our kids who do everything they're supposed to. We got
36:18
Speaker 7: great kids too. Our varsity kids had a three point
36:21
Speaker 7: eighty seven cumulive GPA, So that tells you anything. Cookie
36:24
Speaker 7: Miller's doing a great job with those kids. But it's
36:27
Speaker 7: very disheartening that, you know, these coaches from these schools
36:32
Speaker 7: kind of took a shot at us. We could we
36:35
Speaker 7: took away that trip to Columbus and Cleveland and eliminated
36:37
Speaker 7: those college trips. I guess so, But for us, that
36:40
Speaker 7: was more valuable at the time. And plus, like I said,
36:43
Speaker 7: we already had our schedule was predetermined to the MSA C.
36:46
Speaker 7: Now moving forward, we do have several games scheduled for
36:49
Speaker 7: next year, but we've got coaches. I mean, let's let's
36:52
Speaker 7: be real. Do you think Pike View wants to come
36:55
Speaker 7: and play Capitol High School? Capitol High School? Let's just
36:57
Speaker 7: be real. While we're talking about it. You know, Ronnie
36:59
Speaker 7: at Shady Springs, he doesn't want to come to Capital
37:03
Speaker 7: High School and play. He wants a game on the
37:04
Speaker 7: neutral floor, which makes no sense, but it is what
37:07
Speaker 7: it is. You've got coaches making administrative decisions. I'll tell
37:11
Speaker 7: you this much. One of the administrators and I won't
37:14
Speaker 7: say a name, but he came flat out and said
37:16
Speaker 7: I don't agree with what my coaches did, and he
37:19
Speaker 7: went on a little tirade about that. Now, finally, if
37:21
Speaker 7: the end of the conversation, I said, who's running your school?
37:23
Speaker 7: Who's the principal at this school? Because I'm where the
37:26
Speaker 7: rubber meets the road. You know, Cookie Miller is a
37:29
Speaker 7: great guy. He does a great job with our kids,
37:31
Speaker 7: but sometimes if we have a disagreement, he's not the
37:34
Speaker 7: one that's gonna be called into the superintendent's office. It's
37:36
Speaker 7: going to be men. Yeah. So I'm making decisions that
37:39
Speaker 7: are best for my kids at school and for my
37:42
Speaker 7: school and for my program. So he brought me the list.
37:46
Speaker 7: I rubber stamped it because everything was we collaborated. I
37:51
Speaker 7: had a very similar list to his, and we submitted it.
37:54
Speaker 3: So let me ask you, this coach, let me. Let
37:56
Speaker 3: me ask you.
37:57
Speaker 5: I'm sorry to jump in, but because you your program
38:02
Speaker 5: was at four A last year, now you dropped the
38:05
Speaker 5: three A. Your schedules are already set. Now again, I
38:09
Speaker 5: don't want you to get in trouble. You can you
38:11
Speaker 5: you don't have to answer this if you don't. But
38:12
Speaker 5: it seems like you don't have a problem question.
38:17
Speaker 9: This.
38:17
Speaker 5: When when this sort of controversy arose, do you feel
38:22
Speaker 5: maybe it's the w v s s a c's job
38:26
Speaker 5: to step in and say, look, we're gonna we're gonna
38:30
Speaker 5: set the rankings because again, this was kind of no
38:34
Speaker 5: fault on your own because again, your schedule was set,
38:37
Speaker 5: you were four.
38:37
Speaker 3: A, and now you had to do what you had
38:40
Speaker 3: to do.
38:40
Speaker 7: Yeah, if I don't understand, as the S S A C.
38:43
Speaker 7: They are a governing body of high school athletics in
38:47
Speaker 7: the state of West Virginia. So if I'm the governing
38:50
Speaker 7: body and I've got eight teams in my region and
38:52
Speaker 7: I've got three teams that rank somebody number one and
38:55
Speaker 7: four teams that rank them number seven, We're gonna have
38:57
Speaker 7: some collaboration. You know, We're gonna say what is wrong
39:01
Speaker 7: with this? How can we justifiably ranked Capital seventh doesn't
39:06
Speaker 7: make any sense. So yes, yes, they should have stepped in,
39:10
Speaker 7: Yes they should have something should have been done my opinion,
39:14
Speaker 7: and this is currently.
39:16
Speaker 3: How you doing. One of the interesting things to me
39:21
Speaker 3: about this whole thing is who is sitting there making
39:26
Speaker 3: that decision when when you know it's going to be
39:30
Speaker 3: a controversial situation, like you're gonna put You're gonna rank
39:33
Speaker 3: a team that you're looking at, you've watched, heard about
39:38
Speaker 3: at least heard about. That's a that's a solid top three,
39:43
Speaker 3: top two team. How do you? How do you? How
39:47
Speaker 3: do you even come up with this? How does this
39:49
Speaker 3: even happen?
39:51
Speaker 7: Well, when we did our ranking, Now I'm gonna be forthright.
39:53
Speaker 7: If I'm ranking the top eight teams, I got US
39:56
Speaker 7: and Ripley won two. We could have a debate about that.
39:58
Speaker 7: Both really good ball. I'm putting green Berry East three. Okay, Okay,
40:04
Speaker 7: green Briery's is three. Well, we went down, so they
40:07
Speaker 7: didn't slide up. They stayed at three. But Greenberry's is
40:10
Speaker 7: one of the schools that voted for US seventh, and
40:13
Speaker 7: green Berry East is a prize for this gets Capitol
40:16
Speaker 7: High School Thursday night at their place. Now I don't
40:20
Speaker 7: know who wins that ball game, but if I'm Greenberry's
40:23
Speaker 7: I think they're like fourteen and six. I sure don't
40:26
Speaker 7: want to play a seventeen and fourteen in my first
40:29
Speaker 7: round game. It doesn't make any sense. We kind of
40:32
Speaker 7: did this in themselves. I mean, and I will say this,
40:36
Speaker 7: our kids are resilient. They will bounce back, They will
40:40
Speaker 7: persevere through this win loss. The lessons you learned in athletics,
40:45
Speaker 7: those are lifelong lessons. Not all good lessons, but they're
40:48
Speaker 7: lifelong lessons. So our kids will learn lessons from this
40:52
Speaker 7: and will persevere them and move forward. It's just the collusion,
40:57
Speaker 7: I'm saying, a collusion between few Innston Shady and Greenbrier East.
41:02
Speaker 8: So John, this is Lisa. Hey, when coach Cookie Miller,
41:08
Speaker 8: you know, got with the team and explained that, hey,
41:11
Speaker 8: we're going to be this seed, you know, in Region three,
41:15
Speaker 8: what was their reaction? I mean, were they I mean,
41:18
Speaker 8: how did they take that?
41:20
Speaker 7: They didn't even have to wait till practice. You could
41:22
Speaker 7: see it on their face when you're walking around the hallways. Yeah,
41:25
Speaker 7: it's disheartening. It's a smack in the face. It's just
41:30
Speaker 7: not fair. And look, and I said this to my
41:33
Speaker 7: interview before I'm fifty one years old. If somebody takes
41:35
Speaker 7: a shot at me, I'm a grown man, I'm a
41:36
Speaker 7: big boy. I can take it. But when you're messing
41:39
Speaker 7: with fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old kids, come on, look
41:42
Speaker 7: at take a look in the mirror, and look at
41:44
Speaker 7: what you're doing. Prioritize what you're doing, because if you're
41:47
Speaker 7: taking shots at kids, you're not doing right by kids.
41:50
Speaker 7: You shouldn't be working with kids if they're taking shore.
41:52
Speaker 3: It's like this, in my opinion and coach truly, I
41:56
Speaker 3: truly believe that the structure almost in almost in all
42:02
Speaker 3: all sports, the major structure of it is not for
42:06
Speaker 3: the kids. We've just for some odd reason we have
42:10
Speaker 3: we have lost the purpose of all to me, the
42:14
Speaker 3: purpose of sports as a whole is not for me
42:17
Speaker 3: as the coach, but it is for my kids. How
42:21
Speaker 3: do you like, There's no way I'm going to if
42:24
Speaker 3: somebody comes up and say we're talking about trying to
42:27
Speaker 3: do this deal and I'm thinking, well, man, that's gonna
42:30
Speaker 3: that's gonna kill Charleston, I'm not I'm not going with that.
42:36
Speaker 3: Like there's no there's nothing inside of me that would
42:39
Speaker 3: be okay to to do that. And I and I
42:44
Speaker 3: and I don't understand where where are where are we
42:48
Speaker 3: getting these people in these positions? How are how are
42:51
Speaker 3: they getting in beside? It really is?
42:54
Speaker 7: It is extremely disheartened me and it's sad. And the
42:58
Speaker 7: bad thing about it is our kids are dealing with
43:00
Speaker 7: some adversity. But of course our kids deal with a
43:03
Speaker 7: lot of adversity at Capitol. Our kids have had some struggles,
43:07
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. So I'm proud of our kids.
43:11
Speaker 7: But I'll tell you what. I was at school at
43:13
Speaker 7: eight fifteen on Saturday morning, and I walked in that
43:16
Speaker 7: locker room and I had fifteen kids and four coaches
43:19
Speaker 7: in there watching film at tennis. I walked back down
43:22
Speaker 7: the hallway about nine thirty. We had as structured as
43:24
Speaker 7: practice as I've seen all year. Our kids will overcome this.
43:29
Speaker 7: Our kids are up for the challenge when lose, whatever happens.
43:32
Speaker 7: I'm proud of our kids and this will inevitably make
43:35
Speaker 7: them stronger. But it's not a less than a fifteen, sixteen,
43:39
Speaker 7: seventeen year old kids should have to endure.
43:41
Speaker 5: So let me ask this, as far as that is concerned,
43:44
Speaker 5: do you think again just to play devil's advocate. Obviously
43:47
Speaker 5: the teams they had some sort of they could do
43:51
Speaker 5: it because that's the system. So do you think moving forward,
43:56
Speaker 5: have there been any discussions or potential advocacy on changing
44:01
Speaker 5: sort of the structure so these sort of things don't
44:04
Speaker 5: happen in the future.
44:06
Speaker 7: I hope. So I will say this, there was an
44:09
Speaker 7: email sent out that morning when the ballots came out
44:11
Speaker 7: about possible collusion and ranking Capitol High School low specifically,
44:16
Speaker 7: and those people were so brave and brassy that they
44:20
Speaker 7: bucked that and they did it anyway. So I don't know.
44:23
Speaker 7: That's our governing they govern athletics in the state of
44:26
Speaker 7: West Virginia. At some point, somebody's got to stap in.
44:32
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out, like where do we go?
44:35
Speaker 3: Like where is that? Where is that person?
44:38
Speaker 7: Well, what'll have to happen is it'll be like football,
44:42
Speaker 7: and we'll have a power rating of some type. You
44:45
Speaker 7: know what I mean. You see the power ratings every week.
44:48
Speaker 7: I mean, we were one for I think we're one
44:50
Speaker 7: for fourteen weeks, fifteen weeks or something like that, and
44:53
Speaker 7: we're two now. But two in that power rating can't
44:58
Speaker 7: translate the sixth in the region. Yeah, behind I think
45:03
Speaker 7: a nine and eleven Princeton team, And I mean it's crazy.
45:07
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's just a world of difference when you have,
45:10
Speaker 8: like you stated, you had Hoover and Ripley and Nicholas
45:15
Speaker 8: ranking them at one, and then obviously you have those
45:18
Speaker 8: other schools Princeton, Greenberry East, Pike View ranking them at
45:22
Speaker 8: the lowest possible level. I mean that that's not even
45:25
Speaker 8: that's a discrepancy that you can't even justify, like you
45:28
Speaker 8: might see it. Three out of go ahead, I'm sorry.
45:31
Speaker 7: Yeah, three out of the four of those schools are
45:33
Speaker 7: playing home games. Let's not even get into the final. Yeah, yeah,
45:38
Speaker 7: you know, I think my team, my team bus the
45:40
Speaker 7: green Berry East is about six hundred and some dollars
45:44
Speaker 7: plus plus. I don't know if you've been to a
45:46
Speaker 7: Capitol basketball game this year. It's a vibe, you know.
45:49
Speaker 7: We we have a live crowd, it's fun. We have
45:52
Speaker 7: a DJ pre game, we've had a pet band, you know,
45:55
Speaker 7: and those are things that haven't always been there. But
45:58
Speaker 7: we're working on building community up to high school and
46:00
Speaker 7: it's been it's been a good transition. It's not fair,
46:05
Speaker 7: is it?
46:05
Speaker 3: Just do you think it's just intimidating that nobody wants
46:08
Speaker 3: to come there, that because of what you're creating, what
46:12
Speaker 3: the coach is creating, what the team is creating, and
46:15
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, oh if we come into that,
46:17
Speaker 3: and and now it's playoff time and all of that,
46:22
Speaker 3: is that the worst place that they could come and
46:25
Speaker 3: they don't want to come.
46:26
Speaker 7: I mean, it's intimidating. There might be other factors to
46:29
Speaker 7: play into that too. I don't know. I hate to
46:31
Speaker 7: hate to call it that way, but we look a
46:33
Speaker 7: little different than those teams.
46:34
Speaker 3: I understand that. I understand that, and and I and
46:39
Speaker 3: and and one of the things when you say that,
46:42
Speaker 3: the reality of it is, we're in sports, we're in life.
46:48
Speaker 3: Just just play with the ball, don't work, don't look around,
46:52
Speaker 3: don't try to figure out who is who's what, play
46:55
Speaker 3: the game, take your win, take your loss.
46:58
Speaker 7: And just go. And that's right.
47:00
Speaker 8: And coach, I am so impressed with the way you're
47:02
Speaker 8: standing up for your team and your school. I mean
47:05
Speaker 8: a lot of a lot of times, you know, it's
47:07
Speaker 8: really it's really hard to buck the system, and you
47:09
Speaker 8: seem to be doing a fine job of it for
47:11
Speaker 8: your kids.
47:12
Speaker 3: So kudos to you.
47:13
Speaker 7: Talked to one of our I talked to one of
47:15
Speaker 7: our kids today, Shoddy Whims, and he was in the
47:17
Speaker 7: gym this morning. I think it's six six point thirty
47:19
Speaker 7: or something, shooting basketballs. And we talked and he's like,
47:22
Speaker 7: it's not an option. We have to be prepared. I said, yeah, Sadie,
47:25
Speaker 7: but understand, this is a game. This is one game.
47:28
Speaker 7: You're preparing yourself for life and the things you're doing.
47:30
Speaker 7: And I saw Cassie Morgan in the hallway and he
47:32
Speaker 7: came up and shook my hand and he talked to
47:34
Speaker 7: me and he said, and I said, don't put too
47:36
Speaker 7: much pressure on yourself. He said, it's one game at
47:39
Speaker 7: a time. He said, mystir, this is one game of basketball.
47:42
Speaker 7: I said, that's right. And these kids are learning that,
47:45
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. I don't want to put
47:48
Speaker 7: in an undue stress or a burden on these kids.
47:52
Speaker 7: I got a great group of kids. I love them,
47:55
Speaker 7: and I care far more about them than I do
47:57
Speaker 7: about winning a basketball game.
48:00
Speaker 3: And isn't it hard to fight a battle when you
48:04
Speaker 3: when your kids are already accepting it and trying to
48:08
Speaker 3: move forward, but you know that you need It's a
48:11
Speaker 3: fight that you have to you have to be in,
48:14
Speaker 3: and yet your kids are like, don't worry about it.
48:16
Speaker 3: We're We're okay. That's that's a challenge, but that's a
48:20
Speaker 3: great thing when your kids are sitting in that kind
48:23
Speaker 3: of position.
48:24
Speaker 7: The resiliency of my young kids in this program is
48:27
Speaker 7: remarkable and and I, as a fifty one year old man,
48:31
Speaker 7: I'll strive to be that way.
48:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what so what tell us the game? Is
48:37
Speaker 3: that Greenbrier East win is the game?
48:39
Speaker 7: And what time Greenbrier East? Uh, it's on Thursday night,
48:44
Speaker 7: seven o'clock. We're taking we're taking buses right now. A
48:48
Speaker 7: lot of people in the community have been very charitable
48:50
Speaker 7: and made donations. We have those links on our Capitol
48:54
Speaker 7: High School page, have made donations to help things easier
48:57
Speaker 7: or making sure every kid gets there. Right now, what
48:59
Speaker 7: we're charge and then it was ten bucks to go
49:01
Speaker 7: and it's that's good for a ticket, a meal, and
49:04
Speaker 7: a bus ride. So we're pick we're trying to pick
49:06
Speaker 7: up and the community has done a great job of
49:08
Speaker 7: bonding together and trying to pick that up for the
49:11
Speaker 7: kid to help out.
49:12
Speaker 5: Nice, Well, good luck, coach. I was gonna call you coach,
49:15
Speaker 5: but I'm gonna call you coach anyway. And hopefully, like
49:20
Speaker 5: I said, hopefully this will you know, sometimes things like
49:22
Speaker 5: this have to happen, and hopefully this can lead to
49:24
Speaker 5: some systematic change.
49:27
Speaker 7: Absolutely, and I want to say this. Kudostar girls team
49:29
Speaker 7: they played tomorrow night in the regional final at Primceton,
49:32
Speaker 7: and we're doing the same thing. We're busing kids down there.
49:34
Speaker 7: We're excited, and I think coach talked to Coach Miller today.
49:37
Speaker 7: He's going to do practice a little bit earlier. We're
49:39
Speaker 7: gonna try to get our kids on the bus to
49:41
Speaker 7: go down there. Our student athletes, we support each other
49:43
Speaker 7: capital it's like a family, and we try to have
49:46
Speaker 7: each other spokes.
49:46
Speaker 3: That's what's up. Well, good luck.
49:49
Speaker 7: I appreciate you guys. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
49:52
Speaker 3: Good luck, thank you. All right, So we're going to
49:58
Speaker 3: close out here. But Hollis, I'm I'm actually glad that
50:04
Speaker 3: we had him on because this is this is something
50:11
Speaker 3: that you can't even like, you can't look at it
50:14
Speaker 3: and not see it as ugly unfortunately. You know what
50:18
Speaker 3: I'm saying, Like that, there's just it's zero, there's just
50:24
Speaker 3: Z for me as an African American male. I hate
50:28
Speaker 3: to go here, especially we're wrapping up the show. It
50:33
Speaker 3: looks it looks ugly to me that this has taking place,
50:39
Speaker 3: and where it's taken place.
50:42
Speaker 8: It doesn't look it is ugly. There's no looking to it.
50:46
Speaker 6: I mean all of it.
50:47
Speaker 8: It just is wrong. I mean, there's no other word.
50:51
Speaker 8: And and and for me, I'm glad Hollis asked him
50:54
Speaker 8: about the w v s s A C stepping in.
50:56
Speaker 8: They should have done something about it.
50:58
Speaker 3: I think I think they have here.
51:00
Speaker 8: They should have receded that region and given capital home
51:04
Speaker 8: home court advantage like they deserve. Those kids deserve that.
51:07
Speaker 8: That's why you work all year to get that. And
51:11
Speaker 8: that's angering. It's angering.
51:12
Speaker 5: That's more of my problem because when we look at
51:15
Speaker 5: the problems that we've had across athletics here in the
51:18
Speaker 5: state of West Virginia, unfortunately, and I'm not calling anybody out,
51:22
Speaker 5: maybe it's just how it's structured. The WVSSAC has been
51:26
Speaker 5: at a root of a lot of those issues, whether
51:28
Speaker 5: it's the lawsuits, whether it's the receding, whether it's the
51:31
Speaker 5: bad formula that they use to get the four a
51:36
Speaker 5: quada system together. It's just like at this point, again,
51:41
Speaker 5: I'm not I don't I'm not one for just super overregulation.
51:44
Speaker 5: But when it comes to stuff like this, I think
51:46
Speaker 5: you mentioned earlier, Lisa, it has to just be a metric.
51:49
Speaker 5: It can't just be left up to just somebody's.
51:52
Speaker 8: Whims opinions, because opinions, Because.
51:56
Speaker 5: The four teams who voted against capital, those are like
51:59
Speaker 5: subpar five tens. So it just it doesn't even make
52:02
Speaker 5: sense now that you would be in your and again
52:05
Speaker 5: and you and has you know a principal edison that
52:08
Speaker 5: alluded to. It's not even based on your regional record,
52:11
Speaker 5: it's based on your overall record. So you're just picking
52:14
Speaker 5: the best team that that you just happen to be
52:15
Speaker 5: in a conference with. So it doesn't really make sense.
52:18
Speaker 5: I would I would like to invite anyone who is
52:26
Speaker 5: part of.
52:28
Speaker 3: That vote, who was made that made that choice, put
52:32
Speaker 3: them in that situation. Hey, feel free please come on
52:35
Speaker 3: the show, or reach out to your Facebook, reach out
52:38
Speaker 3: to the Facebook page. Let me clear it up with me,
52:42
Speaker 3: make it make sense to me, make it make sense
52:44
Speaker 3: to the crew, and we'll come back on. We'll have
52:47
Speaker 3: you on and let you talk and show that you
52:50
Speaker 3: were right. But if you're wrong, I mean, you're gonna
52:54
Speaker 3: you gotta to buy some things. So that's my in fight.
53:00
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens and we'll go we'll go from there. Well,
53:04
Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed the show and
53:06
Speaker 3: we will be back again next week