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Hollywood Shuffle with Sam Ike · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: in which we examine movies. Wow. Okay, so to keep going, Um,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: we examine movies from an intersectional feminist lens, using the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Bechtel test as a jumping off point. I know what
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: that is, okay, Jamie, I'm going to hand it off
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to you. Wow. We'd literally sound like we're like on
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: PBS and we're like doing a fundraiser. Um, yeah, I will,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I will gladly pick up the mantel here, Thank you
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: so much. The Betel test is media metric invented by
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: that requires that two for our purposes are a little
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: our little flourished, a little spin on it, our little
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: take on it. Everyone needs a little take on it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Here's ours our version of the Bechdel test requires that
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: two people of a marginalized gender with names by the way,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: for two lines of dialogue. That's our little take on it. Wow. Wow,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: most movies don't do it a lot simply don't, or
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: or this increasing trend that drives me, you know, just
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: into the ground like a little screw driver, is they
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: do pass the Bechdel test, but they still hate women.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Like now, it's like the whole thing where every director.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like most directors have some functioning knowledge of
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test at this point, except for Sofia coppola um,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: which is weird because her movies usually pass, but like
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: she didn't know what it was. But now I feel
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: like a lot of like misogynist directors do know what
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the Bechtel test is, make sure their movie passes it,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: but they're like, oh, but still, we're just gonna like
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: brutalize every woman that's on screen. But did she ask
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: for a like a pudding from her daughter? So it passes?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Therefore a feminist film, right, hate it? Hate it? But
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: you know who was the actor? I want to say
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it was Diane Lane, But before I I'm going to
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: confirm this. Are you about to just fully canceled Diane
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Lane live on the show My Mom Loves Under the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Tuscan Son. You've got to be careful. Oh my gosh, Wow,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: we should like Jill on the podcast to talk about
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: under the Tuscan. I really can't think of someone more
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: qualified to talk about under the Tuscan Son. Oh okay,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: let me just google this and then and if I'm wrong,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'll cut this out and if I'm right, I'll say
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: it is it so thing nice about Diane Lane, or
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: so it's not? Okay, I'm right, Okay, here's what it is,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Diane Lane. She accidentally called the Bechtel test the rectal test.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: This happened a couple of years ago. She was talking
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: about the Bechtel test and I think generally knew what
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: it was, but didn't know what the what the name
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: of it was, and she called it the Rectel test.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Sometimes boomers really show up for you in a way
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: that you didn't expect. Oh, Diane, you know an effort
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: was made, and I respect that. Oh. Knights and Road Dancey.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: People loved Knights and Road Danthy like she's been in
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: every Mom movie for the past thirty years? Was that
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: a Nicholas Sparks adaptation? It was? I know that she
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Fox with d gearing it. Yes, it is a Nicholas
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Sparks but yes, wow, Richard Gear and Diane Lane funk
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: a lot in movies. This doesn't pass the Bechtel test well,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: or nor does it pass the Rectel test. So here's okay,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: here's what happened. Diane Lane was doing an interview with
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Fanity Fair. She was talking about House of Cards. She's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: she says, oh, but the show doesn't pass the Recteal test. Right?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Am I saying that? Right? The fact that it was
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: for House of Cards makes it ten times more cursed.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: On top of that, Oh my god, what she good
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: for her? Yes? Should we talk about today's movie? Yes,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So our guest today a returning guest,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: a friend of the show. He's a comedian. You remember
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: him from our Men in Black episode. It's sam Ike back.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. So we're
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: delighted to have you. I love Diane Lane. Oh really, wait,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: what's your favorite Diane Lee performance? I would go unfaithful
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: or under the skin soun right? Yeah, Yeah, that's she's
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: fucking Richard gear And that one. She's Richard Garan that
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: one too. Yeah. Yeah, she's sucking a lot in that movie. Yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: she's fantastic in it. Um she I mean, I don't
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: know if there's a bad there There are movies where
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Diane Lane is in it and it's not good. But
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a bad Diane Lane movie. Okay,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: sure I do. I feel like generally her starring vehicles
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: are either really wholesome or like aggressively horny. Yeah. Under
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the Top Skin Sun is like the best mixture of
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Unfaithful and Knights and will Dante. It's like the It's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the ben Diagram of the Like, what is it that purple?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It's the it's like the Yeah, it's like the Georgia
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: of Diane Lane. Oh my god, Okay, I feel I
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: feel a Patreon theme coming on. It turns out there's
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a lot to say about Diane Lane, more than I realized.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Diane December. Maybe, Yeah, what if we were like, we're
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: not covering not Halloween like a holiday movies this year,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: We're covering Diane Lane movies. Hey, we're going to run
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: out of holiday movies. Eventually, So we're gonna have to
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: pivot to some howday hope. So, but as long as
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Hudgens keeps, you know, appearing in front of a
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: green screen, they're still gonna be holiday movies. Yeah. Yeah,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: holiday movies and never going away. They're never going away.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: That's one genre. It's like, I think it's like holiday
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: movies and horror movies, those two are never going to
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: go away. I'm fine with it. I'm like, you know what,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: They're always going to be mostly bad and I'm usually
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: going to watch them. Yeah, and you really need you
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: need just one location, you know what I mean, as
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: long as you got a place where you can put
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a fucking tree and somewhere somewhere where you can like
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: you need the woods, right, you need somewhere where you
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: can kill someone in a remote place for a horror movie.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And then you need a place where you can have
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a Christmas tree and you can do a Christmas movie.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It's like a pretty COVID safety friendly genre. Yeah. Oh,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: one of the best genres are cold That's like, what
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: are real? That's so depressive. So it's like we were
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: talking about this on the on the Patreon A couple
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: of during December where it was some some of the
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: like low rent holiday movies I watched this year. You
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: can tell they were shot with COVID restrictions because they'll
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: be like like, there will be scenes that take place
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: adjacent to a party, but you never see the party
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: because there's no party like and then you can hear
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like party dot you know, MP three kind of playing
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: in the background, but it's just two people in a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: room because it's not safe to have anyone else there.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. Happy belated birthday, Diane Lane.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: She just heard this week. Oh wow, incredible Happy Birthday
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Diane Lane podcast. Now, so let's talk about today's actual movie,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: which does not start Diane Lane, doesn't It is the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: movie Hollywood Shuffle. Sam tell us about your relationship with
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: this movie. UM, yeah, okay, so I'm pretty sure it
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: came out the year I was born. And yeah, it
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: starts Robert Townsend, who's one of my like childhood idols
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: kena Everybody AND's co wrote it with um, another one
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: of my childhood idols, And it is one of the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to me personally, it's one of the funniest movies ever made. UM.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's sketches all linked towards this actor named Bobby Taylor
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and his triumphs and struggles of trying to be a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: black actor in Hollywood. And it's, um, it's I saw
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: it when I was I don't know, probably in high school,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and just because I like I knew I would, I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: loved in Living Color A Scary movie was like the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: funniest thing I've ever seen. At that point, I was like,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know, fifteen or whatever, and um, and then
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I saw this movie and I just I've I've watched
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it so many times. It's definitely definitely one of the
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: most we watched comedies for me personally. Yeah, I just
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: absolutely love it. It's it's it's just one of those
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: movies that like every joke is just like so it's
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: so quotable. And it's also just one of those things
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: where it's like I didn't have that many, like all
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: black films that were this funny, you know, there weren't
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that many black comedies, and this one is just like
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. And it's also the other thing is like
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: how hard it was for Robert Town's to make this
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: movie that and and the whole point of it being
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: so inspiring. It is one of the like I am
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: a mostly cynical person when it comes to those things
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and films, but like, it is one of those films
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: that actually did that for me. It's one of the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: few movies that I actually feel like, I don't know,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I hope I guess when you know, Like, yeah, I
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: don't Was that was that too long? We can cut
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: no more? I was beautiful. I was waiting for you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: guys to be like, oh, now we gotta go to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: an ad. Uh No, that's great. Um, Jamie, what's your
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: relationship in history with this movie? I've never seen this
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: movie before. I know, I knew of Robert Townsend because
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I used to watch reruns of The Parenthood when I
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: was little, So that was primarily how I knew who
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: he was was via Parenthood uh reruns. But I I
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: didn't honestly know that much about like what his background was.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: And this movie is so fucking good, Like I'm disappointed
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in myself. I haven't seen it sooner, and it was
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: so much fun. It's so like the story behind it
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: was really cool, and I feel like, um, you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: if you haven't seen this movie, you should stop the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: podcast and watch it now. It's on Pluto TV. You
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have no excuse not to watch it. I watched it
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: on Canopy with my library card or not? Is it
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Canopy or Hoopla? Maybe I think it was on Hoopla.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You've read a book that would that would be better
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: than Pluto TV because it just we were talking about
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: this off my Pluto TV is such a cursed application.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: What was your experience with this movie, Kaitlin. I saw
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it in college as a part of where I did
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: go not once, but twice. I of course hate to
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: bring this up, but in my undergrad education, I was
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: taking like a film study. These are a film history class,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and they were just kind of running through the whole
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: like American film history, and this got shown, I think
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: as a movie because we there was like a section
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: on black exploitation films, and then I think this movie
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: got shown to us because it was like, and here's
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a response to like the black exploitation movement. So I
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: saw it then and I remember thinking it was super
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: funny and just like really poignant. But I hadn't watched
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: it since then, so I was excited to revisit it,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot to talk about and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I'm excited there was, but there's I usually like I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: don't know, sometimes when there are sketches and movies, I
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: get turned off. But it works so perfectly in this movie,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Like it's so and all the sketches are so funny,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, And it's one of those things where
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's interesting now watching it because like every
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: aspect of Hollywood Shuffle was kind of like integrated in
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: different mediums where there wouldn't be a movie like this anymore.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Like there's a podcast about these subjects. There's more sketches
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: on YouTube of this, Like every part of it is
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: like broken out in a different way now where Uh,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: It's just it's such an interesting time capsule and it's
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: also so fascinating how much of it holds up, you know. Yeah,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: and not to say there are parts of it that
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: don't hold up there, hold on, we'll talk about them.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I had to. But yeah, it was I love. I mean,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it was like I kind of wish I like I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: had watched this in film school because it literally is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: like a mini film history, like the funniest version of it.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: For sure. Should I do the recap, let's do it.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: We'll go from there. Okay, So we open on Bobby Taylor,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: who who was played by Robert Townsend, who directed, produced,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and co wrote this movie. Oh to like a quadruple threat.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Bobby is an actor who is practicing for an upcoming
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: movie audition, and the role he is auditioning for is
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Jimmy who It's a little vague exactly who Jimmy is,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: but he's like a gang leader or like a pimp
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: or something along those lines. I'm sorry, something so funny
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: about listening to you describe that we opened. We opened
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: on Jimmy. He made to be a pimper or dealer.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: He's some kind of scally wag, becomes slightly British, he's
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: some sort of scally waging on it. I just love
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: how you so fascinated by who is Jimmy? What is this?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: What is this story? Fine? Jimmy. We know that he
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: needs revenge, That's what we know that, right, Yeah, Jimmy
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: needs to revenge. I mean, I'm sorry, I don't need
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: but like when we now, I kind of want to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: talk about Jimmy's revenge as should we wait or do
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: we or do we get into it now? Well, because
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it is kind of fascinating it is. I would have
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: liked to have seen the movie that they make within
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: this movie, because it would have been probably the worst
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: movie ever made, Like it would be such a mess,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: like Jimmy's Like the monologue that Bobby is practicing is
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like so just like bizarre and repetitive and like obviously
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: extremely racist, and it's just like a mess. Yeah, that's
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the thing that I don't understand. It's called Jimmy's Revenge.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Jimmy's brother dies, Jimmy is already at the scene when
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: he dies. The guy who killed him is there, is there,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: so Jimmy is about to attack him. I assume that's
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: what he's talking about the whole time. So how long
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: is this movie? Like he doesn't he get? Like That's
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: what I kept thinking about when when you just brought
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: that up. I was like, wait, yeah, how long. It's
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Jimmy's Revenge. He's jim You know what I means, Jimmy. Yeah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: it's all right, it's happening right there, happening. It's maybe
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: it's a short film. It's it's a it's a seven
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: minute film. I didn't even connect that. I was like, wow,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I should have been thinking harder about Jimmy and what
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: it's called. That's on me because what happens after right,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: we know we never see so Jimmy is like not
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the best role, but even so, if Bobby gets this part,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it will be a big break in his career. Then
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: we meet Bobby's mom, his grandma, and his little brother.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: We see a commercial for a TV show about Mr
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Batty or something like that. It's a show where half man,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: half bat lives with a white suburban family. Batty boy,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Batty boy, batty boy. Hey, you know you guys should
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: do for your next Patreon You should just do Durant,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: just fucking just doing descriptions of sketches. Was a bat
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: who's half man, half bat. He was living in the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: suburbs of Michigan. I love listen to describe all of these.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: This is great. Now I feel self conscious of no, no,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: this is this is no. You're you're you're so accurate.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You're you know what I mean, You're accurate. It's clear,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's great. I'm loving what you're doing. I
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: just never heard anybody actually describe what happens in the
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: sketches in the Hollywood Shuffle before and it's mind blowing
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: to me just to hear a half man, half bad.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I mean that's the way he's described in the movie.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, which isn't even funnier because he's just
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: wearing a costume from my party. That's another thing. What's
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the background on Battie? Like how why is that family? Like?
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: How did he get there? Is it a fresh prince
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: of bel Air situation where he's sent over because like
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like like you know, it's just it's tough for a
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: bat in like l a, So he's gotta go. He
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: got in one little fight and his mom got scared,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna go send you to live with this
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: white family in Michigan. Yeah, and he's a grown man too.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: He's like it's not like he's growing up with the kids.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: You know, he's like a young it's not like a
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Casper situation. He's like a fully full adult. Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I only bring up Batty Boy because he'll he comes
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: back later. So you know, I have to I have
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to plant the seed plant to pay off with the boy.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: There is check offs Batty Boy. Okay. So anyway, so
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: we see that commercial, then we see Bobby call out
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of work because and he's like, I have to go
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: to the dentist, but it's really so he can go
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to this audition. Um. Then we see a montage of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: other black actors auditioning for various roles, but many of
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: them are there for the same role that Bobby is
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: there for. And then he talks to another actor who
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: comments on how this role of Jimmy is like a
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: white man's stereotype of a black man and how the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: only roles that Hollywood ever lets them play are slaves
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and butlers and things like that. Remember, it's like time
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: to go audition, And then we cut to Bobby having
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: kind of like a day dream fantasy thing, which which
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: is a commercial for Black Acting School, which I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: is one of the most famous scenes from this movie,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: where basically it's a school where white teachers teach black
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: actors how to play criminals, gang leaders, pimps, drug dealers,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: all manner of roles like that. It's such a great scene.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good. And knowing that I
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: didn't know that like Robert Townsend was like a second
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: city guy, and knowing that made it an even better
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: viewing experience. Oh my god, And I love the audition
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: scenes were you've seen all those different actors coming in
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and when that one, that one like scholarly actor goes
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: in and then that like you're the worst actor. He's like,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I could try in an iamic. They would have the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: actual gang memories and any pulls out that. I was
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: like like, this is this is it's it's a it's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: such a great sequence. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: want to talk all about that because there's like a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: lot of really good commentary in that montage that we'll discuss. Um.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: So then Bobby goes to work at the hot dog
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: stand where he works, and the actor who plays Battie
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: boy A shows up and Bobby is like hey and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: like a gigantic limousine, and Bobby asks him about acting
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and how can you tell if a script is good,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and Batty boys like, well, if your character doesn't die,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: then it's a good script. And we're like, oh wow,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the bar is low. Um. Then we see we see
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: seen where Bobby has been playing basketball with his friends,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and then they talk about how there needs to be
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: more black film critics, and then we cut to another
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: kind of fantasy day dream of Bobby's about these two
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: black guys who sneak into movies and then review them.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And then we see knockoff versions of Amadeus, Indiana Jones,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Dirty Harry, and then a zombie movie. Then Bobby gets
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a call from his agent saying that the casting directors
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: at the audition really liked him and that he has
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: gotten a callback, but they're looking for an Eddie Murphy type.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: So then we get another dream sequence where Bobby's at
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: his callback saying that he doesn't want to be Eddie Murphy,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: he just wants to be himself, but then he can't
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: help but to do an Eddie Murphy impression. And then
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: this is the same year that Robert Townsend directs Raw. Yeah,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: so good, are you reading this? I wrote this down
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and yes, I'm reading it, okay. I was just thinking.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit. It was like I was like,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: did you you just be watched this like yesterday? Like
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you recite this whole thing, Sam, I write it down
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: otherwise I will forget everything. Um. Yeah, I read that
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy saw Hollywood Shuffle and like demanded that Robert
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Townsend direct his stand up special. That's the best. Like
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and then I didn't know that I don't know, I
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: just like did a deep dive on Robert Townson last
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: night because I'm like, I just know as the guy
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: from the Parenthood um where like when he was like
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: in his early twenties, he was like passed over for
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: a sn L in favor of Eddie Murphy. He just
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: like Eddie Murphy was like haunting his life and then
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: they became friends. I love that man. Um. Okay, So
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: then we see Bobby quit his job at the hot
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: dog stand, banking on making it as an actor, and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: then he visits his uncle at a barbershop and he's
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: he expresses some concerns about what if he's not good enough?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: What if I don't make it as an actor. He
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: goes to his call back and nails it and he
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: gets the part, and he celebrates with his girlfriend. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: think Lydia. Yeah, we're supposed to think she's an important
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: character because she's on the poster for the movie, but
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: but I can't name one thing about her other than
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: she certainly is a girlfriend. Yes, they watch a detective
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: movie with his grandmother who comes in and sits between them,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: and then we get a sequence of this detective movie
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: that they're watching where Robert Townsend plays like a film
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: noir detective solving a murder. Then he's about to go
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: in for his first day of shooting this movie, Jimmy's Revenge,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: which again is a seven minute short film We've decided,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and he reads this note from his little brother about
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: how his brother really looks up to Bobby, and then
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Bobby overhears his grandma talking about how she doesn't want
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: him adding to the negative portrayals of black people in movies,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and she thinks he should get a job at the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: post office. Then he shows up to set and he
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: hears that the n double a CP is going to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: pick it the movie because of its racist stereotyp types.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: So then we see another dream sequence where he's being
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: picketed and then his grandma and his little brother and
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend disown him and then they kill him. If
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: you print that, the kid is so cute, Yes, where
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: are they now? The character's name, I forget his little
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: brother's Stevie, right, Stevie. Stevie is so cute and funny,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: A plus child actor truly, So then we're back in reality.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: He shoots a scene from the movie, but his character
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: is just so reductive and the direction he's getting from
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the white filmmakers is very racist, and his grandma and
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: little brother are so disappointed in him, and he's disappointed
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: in himself. So Bobby quits and walks off the set.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Then there's another dream sequence where he's imagining himself in
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: all of these awesome movie roles, and then he imagines
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: himself winning an oscar, and then the movie ends with
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: him doing a commercial for the post office saying, you know,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: if you can't take pride in your work, you can
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: always get a job at the post office. And that's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: how the movie ends, except for that song at the end,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the song and the right. Then there's a fun like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: moral of the story song over the credits, and then
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the movie ends, and before that there's the Hollywood that
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that credit sequence, they had that song one in a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: million and it's so good. I love that. I love
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that song. And they play at the beginning of the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: movie too. It's oh, it's delightful. Yeah, it's a great
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: soundtrack to bookend a movie. So that's the story. Let's
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And we're back initial all right, and we're gonna take
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: a quick quick commercial break. I always want to always
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: want to say that, Well I'll cut, I'll splice that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: audio the next time we haven't No I'm doing it,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: won't it won it won't feel organic, it will we
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: won't feel right. Okay, Well we'll figure we'll figure out
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: a way to make this work. I just want to
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: earn it. I want to I want to have that
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: ability to just be like in the middle of this podcast,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: we're like, oh, I think that's a good time for
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: a break. Well, we'll leave this up to you, Sam,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So you better not screw it up. Oh man, I'm
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: gonna forget so quickly. It's gonna be like that four
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: or five thing again. Okay, Well, now that we are
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: back thanks to Sam taking the lead. Um So, I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: mean this movie is just like it's one big string
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of commentary on the way black people are represented in Hollywood.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Like that's very clearly the agenda of this movie, and
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: that is very clearly what's coming across. So yeah, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: kind of just made a list of the different things
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that we get commentary on. Um So, basically, you guys
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: bought like Google sheets and ship this is I'm telling you, Sam,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: we write things down simply you guys got mad notes,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you bought mad notes. This is y'all real for real.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: This is like no lie, this is like wow. Well yet,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: so there's effective commentary on, obviously, the roles that tend
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: to be only available to black actors, such an especially
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: so this movie came out, this is more true then
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: than it is now. But a lot of these things
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that get commented on are still current problems in Hollywood
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: thirty years later. So the rules that tend to only
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: be available for black actors, such as playing slaves, pimps,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: gang leaders, drug dealers, any kind of criminal really, and
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: just commentary on how damaging that is too black people.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: There's commentary on the expectation of white filmmakers for black
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: actors to like act more black quote unquote, or to
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: mimic an existing bankable movie star who was black, rather
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: than like, let black act there's just like be themselves
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: or like figure out their own brand. And there's all
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that mentioned of Eddie Murphy, of course, and how like
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: they just reference black actors who have already tested well
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: with white audiences and they don't want to stray outside
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: of the black actors that they know test well with
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: white audiences, and then as far as like, when black
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: women are auditioning for these parts, it's like they're always
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: about to be murdered or assaulted, Like there's not even
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: there's it's it's even worse. There's commentary on light skinned
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: black actors. We see two light skinned black guys at
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: this audition at the beginning of the movie. One of
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: them is saying, how like white casting directors were telling
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: him that he wasn't black enough for the part. The
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: other one is saying, how like they weren't sure if
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: he was black or not, And then he says, how
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: he uses sunten lotion now and I wasn't. Was the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: implication that he was like intentionally trying to keep himself
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: as light as possible so that he could pass as
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: white and then therefore get more roles. Was that what
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: was happening there? I think the I think he was
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: trying to say he was trying to come off as
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: like like dark skinn Italian or something like that. Yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I got it. I think that's what it was said.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't fucking bring notes talk like
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: where are you like? Yo? I I did not bring
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: notes and I feel bad. Don't worry. Oh, my god, no,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I liked. I mean it was the colorism came up
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch throughout this movie. It comes up in the
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: in the Black Acting school sketch as well, Like it
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: comes up all the time. And we we were, I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: don't know, we were just talking about colorism in our
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Selena up said a couple of weeks ago. And this
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: is a movie that literally lays out all of those
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: talking points in the funniest way possible. It also overlaps
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: with like how Latin X actors are stereotyped because they
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like end up casting I think in Jimmy's Revenge they
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: end up casting light skinned black actors to play Latin
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: X roles and like it just becomes a just a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: big racist mess, like it's and it's all like laid
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: out for you in I don't know. I had to
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: like rewind a couple of times because I was like
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: laughing because it's funny, and then I was like, wait
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: a second, they just said something really really important, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: then I had to like do a do an intellectual
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: watch after after Yeah, it's the kind of thing of
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: it's just like any minority would do, you know. And
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: that was and that's like that's something that it's still
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: didn't change at all really in the nineties. You know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it was um in Black Acting school like one of
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the things that always like strikes me one of the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: things that's like always so funny with the black acting schools,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: just like when they have the white actors show the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: black actors like how to walk and stuff. Oh yeah,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: it's like it's just it's just my it's it's one
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: of those things that it's like I'm watching this movie
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and I think about like what it is now thirty
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: years later, and it's like that's like the equivalent of
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: like when white people are like, oh yeah, you talk
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: white like, you know, Like it's that same kind of
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: it's that same kind of thing. Yeah, And like you
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: see Bobby like in a bunch of different scenes having
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: to code switch from just like the way he normally
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: talks to the way the white filmmakers want him to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: talk when he's like acting in the audition or like
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: on set, because they want him to be more of
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: what they think a black person is and how they
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: think a black person talks. And there's a been a
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: line in the end credit song where one of the
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: white filmmakers says that he learned about black people from TV,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and he's sort of using that as like his defense
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: and his excuse. But those racist portrayals influenced his racist portrayals,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: so you know, you just get this like never ending
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: cycle of negative representation in media because rich white people
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: are making all of the decisions. Oh and and just
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the idea of Jimmy himself, like the character of Jimmy,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: like this this podcast is mostly gonna be about Jimmy's revenge.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: We should just title this Jimmy. Uh. But like Jimmy's Revenge.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: It's like he he brings to it in the audition
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: such a ridiculous like stereotype because he knows that's what
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: would appease them, because like Jimmy in and of itself,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: if you just like me, it's like, oh, yeah, this
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: could have been like a tough guy, but they like
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: purposely want this like foolish, you know, buffoon, And it's like, yeah,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: that's that's a part that's like always got to me, definitely.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And there's commentary in this movie as well on black
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: actors resenting these like racist stereotypical roles that they are
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: presented with and not wanting to play them, but having
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: to do it anyway because they need work, they need
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: to be able to support themselves, and those are the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: only roles available to them, so they can't turn them down,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: even though they're so regressive and reductive. Like that actor
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: who was like who keeps going to Bobby and being like,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that someone would do this part, and
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm going and then he takes it
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: because right, yeah, And I like, doesn't he it's him
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: who comes back at the end, right, and he goes
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: that he's just like clearly resentful that Bobby has gotten
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the part, but trying to like high grounded, he's like, yeah,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have taken on such
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: an offensive role, but you know, but he's there in
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: the same movie doing a smaller role, which which to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: me is like the equivalent of like people like commenting
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: on a tweet, you know what I mean. It's like, Oh,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I have this moral superiority, but yet I'm going to
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: engage in like the same behavior, you know, like, yeah,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: it's real blue check behavior. He's just playing there. Yeah.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I think that the way that this movie kind of
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: lays out just the predicament that Bobby and all of
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: these black actors are in is like even with how
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: they're received by the black community, Like it's like you
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: just can't win because it's like, Okay, if you want
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: to be an actor, there are only these offensive roles available.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So the option is to either quit what you're passionate
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: about or play the game. And then now like your
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: grandma doesn't respect you and like that like that is
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, like I've never seen that laid
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: out so well, yeah, I I completely agree, but I
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: think you're also forgetting about the third option, which is
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to be the best actor in a post office commercial.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: And that's always like the third option is you can
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: be flow the progressive lady of the US Postal Service,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and if you could, if you could get that, I mean,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it's kind of the best of both worlds. So like,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: let's always remember the third option. It's always on the table. Yes,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: that is that is the hero's journey here. I like
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: to think that's the only commercial you ever does too,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and it just makes bank, you know what I mean.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like the residuals had to have been
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: sweet on that and it was timeless. It wasn't a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: dated looking commercial. Anytime I hear about people being in commercials,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, holy ship, Like it's ridiculous money. I hope
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: that he bought a house with his postal service commercial. Yeah,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: because you know how federally funded the United States Post
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Office is just paying millions of dollars to advertise all
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the time. Hey sent any mail lately. I love it.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: People need stamps and they don't know where to go.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: This is a this is a great time for that.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for stamps in your town hall, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: you don't know where to go in the middle of
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: your place of business, you can always go to the
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: post office. Well, Sam a ringing endorsement of the United
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: States post you can cut that. You're gonna cut. No,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I'm keeping you. I'm cutting it. Also, the post Office
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: is having a bit of a moment right now, so
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: people about the post Office. I've seen people in post
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: office crop tops. I'm like, what is going on? I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: bought so much post office merch pre election. It was,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: but I want to talk about I think like the
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: real third option here, which is to do what Robert
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Townsend did, which is he like wrote this movie, co
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: wrote this movie, directed it, produced it, funded it himself.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: It only had a one dollar budget. The movie made
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: five million at the box office, which you know isn't
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of money, but comparatively for the small budget
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it was on, it was like considered a big success,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: and then he got an amazing career out of it.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: He was like directing Eddie Murphy Specials by the end
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: of that calendar year. Like that's so, it's yeah, and
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I wanted to I found an article Vanity Fair. Yes.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I love when we find the same both finding the
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: one article that, yeah, your note You guys take so
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: many notes that your notes come together, like that's your
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: notes a symbiotic. It's like venom and Tom Hardy. Wow.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I was not expecting you to use that reference me either.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: You think you think you think I came in were
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: with notes? Non man, I'm I'm straight up improvn And
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: that's the best I could come up with a venom reference. Incredible.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: I did not pre plan of a venom reference. That's
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the new Like that's like the new Yin and Yang.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: It's just oh, we have fun. But yeah, that that
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Vanity Fair pieces great. Yes, says I wanted to read
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: a little bit from it, just to give a little
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: bit of background on Robert Townsend and sort of like
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: how this movie came together. So the article is entitled
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: thirty years later, the searing critiques of Hollywood Shuffle still sting.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: H quote Townsend was in experience. He didn't go to
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: film school and hadn't directed a short film, so he
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: had not directed Um Jimmy's Revenge before UM, but he's
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: still snuck it in there. It's like, mank uh. He
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: didn't go to film school and hadn't directed a short film,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: but determined to tell a story about being marginalized by
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the industry. In four he had a small role in
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the Oscar nominated a Soldiers Story. I told my agent,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I want to do more movies like this, Townsend tells
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Vanity Fair. My agent was like, Robert, they only do
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: one black movie a year. You just did it. Be happy.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But Townsend wasn't happy. So he talked to a friend, Waynes,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: whom he met at the Improv in New York. I
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: thought my dream of being an artist was dying because
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: at the time the only roles Keenan and I were
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: auditioning for were slaves and pimps and stereotypes of basketball
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: players who couldn't read towns and said it was all
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the negative stuff. And then Keenan and I started talking,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and I was like, we should do a movie about
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: our lives. That's how it started. And then they wrote
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: the script together without any studio backing, though Townsend was
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: faced with financing the film on his own. Uh he says, quote,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: the idea of somebody writing, directing, and producing and starring
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: in a movie, especially a person of color, wasn't heard of.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Everybody said the bar was so high you couldn't get
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in if you didn't have millions and millions of dollars.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And then he eventually raised a hundred thousand dollars to
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: make Shuffle, using money he earned from acting gigs as
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: well as credit cards and quote, so the rest is hi, Yeah,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I love this story of how this movie was made.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: And then it actually, I mean it's it is kind
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of like that thing that we talked about on the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: show pretty frequently, is Hollywood refusing to make a movie
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: that audiences clearly want to see because once it is made,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: like against all odds, it does super well, and like
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: this made back its budget fifty times, like it launched
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the career of a few different people, and like it
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: it's always so frustrating, like when you're like why why
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you just make a movie with a black autour,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Like why why? And it's that like van Go thing
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: of like, you know, Townsend never really got the credit
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: for this movie, and yet it's like it's such a
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: cornerstone of like so much that comes after it, you know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's it's really amazing thinking of like
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: how much stuff has been made and it's like, oh,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: this is this seems like a thing from Hollywood Shuffle,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and how many careers were made from it. Yeah, it's
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: it's really like amazing. Then when you look at Townsend's
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: career after this movie, it's like he for the most part,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't make he doesn't make a movie like anything that
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: he actually lampooned in Hollywood Shuffle. And that's one of
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the most amazing things about his career is like he
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: kind of stuck to for better for worse. He's stuck
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: to the Hollywood Shuffle like he you know, he makes
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: like a bio film, he makes a family sitcom, a
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: black superhero movie. You know. It's it's like it's kind
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: of like it's kind of remarkable that he actually like
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: still stuck to those principles. I guess, yeah, he's a
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: man of integrity. I love. I'm like, oh, he's great. Uh.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: And then and and I guess just going off as
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: as amazing as it is that he was able to
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: make this movie the way he was, it is like
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: it's both inspiring and kind of like it's because we've
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: heard this story of like marginalized filmmakers having to like
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: jump through all sorts of hoops financially and production wise
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: in order to get their first movie made. And then
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: you hear other stories of like Wes Anderson was just
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: handed ten million dollars. I couldn't even write on paper,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: and they said this boy, I like, I like the
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: cut of his jib, and he seems like he'll come up,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: he'll come up with something. And meanwhile there's like these
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you know, and it's like whatever, that's no shade os Anderson.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: He figured it out eventually, but like, you know, it
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: just just the disparity and like who is handed money
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: even though they're not even qualified and like amazing artists
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: with like a really clear perspective, like Robert Townsend and
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I'm also thinking of like Jeff Barnaby, like his story
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: of making rhymes for young girls or a woman walks
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: home alone at night. I got the title wrong, but
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: like all of these like really amazing movies with the
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: are just different, like the the climb to get it
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: released and like made the way the director wants is
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: so steep, and meanwhile we're just handing west Understand a
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: blank check and being like you'll figure it out, twenty
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: two year old, like good luck. It's infuriating. There's even
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: some commentary similar to that in Hollywood Shuffle where there's
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: a scene where towards the end, Bobby is like observing
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: white actors in the studio that he's in. Basically it's
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, white actors are given the freedom to
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: take on roles that aren't these racist stereotypes obviously, like
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: they can audition for a wider scope of parts. And
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: because you see him watching like two white actors rehearse
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: the scene where they're like professing their love for each other,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and then he sees another white action star who's like
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: making demands of the script, and then like the white
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: producers are like acquiescing to his demands for the most part.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: So hey, I was just thinking, Man, I would love
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: to see Wes Anderson direct a remake of Hollywood Shuffle.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: That would be so amazing. All the parts would be
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: played by Ralph Fines and fucking perfectly symmetrical. Reimagine everyone's
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the same movie and it was all black actors, but
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: they were all wearing both ties, like same cast, and
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: then there's just like so much headroom above every the
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: actors and every shot. Oh my god, I like, I
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: know that Wes Anderson is a competent filmmaker. I just
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: get exhausted even thinking about watching one of his movies.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: It's just there's just too much. It's too much. I
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: like Moonrise Kingdom a lot. I like that one. I
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: still seen that. I like that one a lot. I
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: didn't see the I didn't see the dog one. Oh
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I love dogs. I did not like I love dogs
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: really at all, like that one. I think it's funny
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that it's called I Love Dogs. It took me forever
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: to figure out that it's just called I Love Dogs.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Oh me too, I didn't know Marley and Me was
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: was about a dog. Oh yeah, isn't that dog dog dies?
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I thought spoilers Marley. I thought it was like a
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Julia and Julia thing with Bob Marley, Like, wow, Sam,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: you have to write that script just a Adam, just
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: just being like, I love Weed. The exact same set
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: up is Julian exact same movie. Hey Sam, this would
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: be a really interesting time to take an ad break,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: just in case. Hey guys, you know what, this conversation
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: is great, but you know it's even better what ads
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: we should take. We're gonna take a quick commercial break
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: and movie right back, folks. Incredible, it is this going? Okay,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm having an absolute ball. I just feel
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: like I just I just feel like your listeners are
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: gonna be like, what the what the hell? They let
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the guy do the ads now? Only only for you.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: We we make the exception for you and you alone, Sam.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Only only friends can tossed a brick. Also, well, I'm
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: surprised we have not brought this up yet, but the
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: episode that we did with you a few years ago
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: now was a live episode that we recorded in Boston,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: And because it was in Boston, Jamie's mom was there,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and Jamie's mom that fateful meeting. For anyone who remembers
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: this on the Men in Black episode was aggressively hitting
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: on Sam during the show loudly. It was sparks were
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: flying in the middle of our podcast. Also the room
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: that that was like the the smaller theater at Improv Boston.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Like you can't overstate how physically close the audience is
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: to you. Like so my mom could have just reached
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: out and like held your hands. Yes, yes, it should
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: have happened, honestly, I mean it's still can't It's still
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: what's stopping you. It's never too late, honestly, no doubt.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Like I added your mom on Facebook, immediately act and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: show it's still it's not It's not too late. My mom,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: just bring over a Diane Lane DVD. Is Yeah, I
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: got that. I got that Diane Lane DVD. Uh Candle
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: what oh was it an Taylor and Aunt Taylor Candle.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to bring. Yeah, she'll she will
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: be disarmed, she won't know what She'll be like, I've
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: only ever seen this in a Diane Lane movie before.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I can't believe it's happening. I mean, honestly, for me,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: all I mean, you know, like you know, all joking aside.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I just I really think your Mom's like just just
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: just a great just a great woman. And you know,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's amazing how she just raised such a
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: loving and caring family. And uh, you know, and if
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: she's listening, like you know, my damn's are open, Jill,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: you hear that, Jill, M this man, don't blow this.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I'm very attached to the idea of Sam becoming my dad,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: so it would be huge for me. So am I?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: So am I. Well, here's okay, here's where I would
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: like to get into some of the more criticism of
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: this movie, because while there is a lot of very
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: effective commentary in the movie, there are some parts that, um,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: just the movie kind of fails to touch on. Uh,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking mostly about how black women are largely
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: left out of this commentary. Yeah, black women are not
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: entirely absent, because there are different moments where some of
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: the black actors who are women are talking about how
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: they are usually only cast in like sex worker roles
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: or or just straight up murder victim roles. Right, Yeah,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: it's like that. Yeah. One of the things that stuck
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: out to me was like, I feel like we're led
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: to believe that women are more involved in this movie
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: than they are. Like the marketing of this movie. Um
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Anne Marie Johnson who plays uh Bobby's girlfriend Lydia, like
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: she's on the poster and then you're like, oh, so
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: this is like she's going to be involved, but she's
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: kind of she we don't. I mean, I couldn't tell
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: you a thing about this character that isn't She's Bobby's girlfriend.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: There's friend, here's girlfriend, which sucks because it's like the
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: performances really know there's I didn't mean to cut you
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: off with that. That's like Ron Berman. No, that was
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: me quoting ourselves on this very podcast for a long
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: running joke, which you'd know if you'd ever listen, sam Well,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: I I listened. I listened every episode. I get ten
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: mints in. I'm like, no Ron Perlman reference. I do
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: that with every single podcast. That's why that's why I
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: didn't get in into Cereal. I'm getting really into the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast series. We talked about
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: it on the past episode, but I just kind of
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: kept watching it. But yeah, like Emery Johnson, who like
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: goes on to have like a pretty great career, she
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: was like on in Living Color, that's where I realized
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: that I recognized her from in the middle of watching
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: this movie. Um, but it's there's so many opportunities for
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Lydia in this movie that I feel like you're all
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: kind of dropped in and we mostly see her in
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: like either she's being supportive towards Bobby, which is great,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: but like that's kind of it. Or you see her
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: in like a fantasy that Bobby is having about her,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: not fantasy, like a nightmare sequence where she all of
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: a sudden isn't supportive of him. But that is really
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the only two modes we see her, and it's like
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: supporting my boyfriend or not supporting my boyfriend. You know
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: where she works. That's it. That's it. And I mean,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: not only could we just have seen more of her,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: there was just there's just so much room for commentary
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: on the way black women are represented in Hollywood, and
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: they're just really isn't much in the way of that
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: commentary at all. There's another moment where in the audition
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: scene towards the beginning of the movie, there are two
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: women who were talking to each other about one of
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: them had been invited over to a movie director's house
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: at midnight, and instead of there being any kind of
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: commentary on how women and particularly women of color are
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: exploited by powerful people in the entertainment industry, instead of that,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: a joke has made about how the woman was like,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: of course I went to his house and I was
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: one minute early. T he so just like there were
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: opportunities feminists, all right. I was rewatching this movie this
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: morning and I was like, Yo, that's gonna be a
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Bechdel cast. Note. I was like, yeah, they're going to
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: mention down the Beachdel cast. Were you right? It's true
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: that because it's like there was like a moment in
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: the movie where like Robert Townsend is beyond qualified to
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: be making all of these like he's making a ton
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: of amazing points in the same scene. And then yeah,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: it's like they're kind of a misogynist joke that like
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: implies that like, oh, you know, these actors, you know
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: they get it, they don't they don't mind having to
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: like have sex with these nasty directors in order to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: get work. And that was and then the only other
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: woman you see preparing and that sequence is flailing around
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: because she's going to be a murder victim. Um so yeah,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: just most of the meaningful commentary in this movie about
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: black representation in Hollywood is about black men specifically, and
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: again in this movie, black women are largely left out
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: of the conversation, which is because they are like, as
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: we were kind of talking about, it's like the struggles
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: that black women face in the industry are compounded with
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: misogyny on top of everything. So there's yeah, I was,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: and I think like another thing that makes it always
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: like so tough, as like in in this film, there's
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: also this like idea in the in this time period
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: where a black woman's like the best thing she could
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: be was a great mom or a great grandma, you know,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and a lot of those movies and in those films,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: and it's like and that was like, that's like one
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: of those things was like, it was like the importance
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: of black motherhood is shown, like is very important in
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that that Robert Townsen does, and
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: it's and it's also seen in this movie. But it
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: was the it's the fact that there's nothing beyond that,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: you know, which is always like, which is the disappointing factor. Definitely,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I almost wish I was I wish that his girlfriend
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: was like also an actor or something like, she could
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: have been like included in the story that way where
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, here's a person we already know played
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: by an amazing comic actress. And and then like you know,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: ask literally and Marie Johnson. When you're writing this movie Getty,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: it's always that thing of just like, oh, if you
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: don't you know, fully know what are the specific struggles
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: that black female actors face, just ask your friend, Like,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: she's right there for it. She's literally right there, she's
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: on she's hanging out on the poster of your movie. Um,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that's a great like if if she had
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: also been like a struggling actor auditioning four roles that
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: were largely racist stereotypes, like that could have opened up
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: all those opportunities for much needed commentary on that very topic.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: But it would have just like made their relationship a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: little more interesting too, because all we know is like
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: they're dating, they love they love each other, which is
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: like great, but like they would be cool if they
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: had like that, like they bonded over this like shared
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: frustration and struggle as well. Yeah, I just wish that
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: there was more of Emory Johnson in this movie. Because
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: in the middle I was like, wait a second, she's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: like super fucking talented. I wish she was more. I did,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: like I guess that, yeah, the mother figures the mother,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and then particularly the grandmother who what what show is
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: she on? She's on Good Times another show I watched.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I watched a lot of Niked Knight as a child then.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: But I liked that Bobby's grandmother was kind of like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: she kind of ended up being the only person who,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: you know, saw what was going on and said it,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of cool. I just wish
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: that there was like more, I don't know, more more
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: of her. Yeah. In fact, for the first like fifty
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: or so minutes of the movie, I was like, oh,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: I guess we're just going to meet the grandmother and
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: then she's never gonna come back into the story. But
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: then she does, and she plays a pretty significant role
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: in sort of inspiring Bobby to like walk off this
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: set and quit this movie, because in this world, you
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: bring your entire family to shoot a movie with you.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: That was the other thing. I was like, Wow, he
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: just brought literally everyone he knows to the same including
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: his child brother, and they would film in the whole movie.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: In that one day, it's like a guy, damn play
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: the heart. Do you think of it? About it? The
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: lass Jimmy's Revenge makes sense? But yeah, so I like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: that the grandmother character becomes important and a lot of
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: what she says is like, again, part of this important
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: commentary that's happening in the movie. And then there's even
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: like a nice conversation between her and Bobby's mom where
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: she's saying, like, I don't want a grandson of mine
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: to be adding to all this negative imagery of black
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: people in media, and his mom is like, yes, everything
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: you're saying is right, but also it's work, like he
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: need needs to work and if this is has chosen
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: line of work, like he's got to do what's available
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: to him. And so there's like that, you know, the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: push and pull of do I take a horribly racist
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: role or do I, you know, like by by my principles,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: which means never getting work and never making money. So
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: it's like this whole the just a tug of war
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: kind of thing with your own conscience. But um yeah,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: like we said, there's we get introduced to the grandmother
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning, and then she's pretty much absent
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: from the story until the last like twenty minutes or so, right,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: And I liked I mean, I liked that conversation that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: his mother and grandmother we're having, Like that is I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: feel like that's like that conversation they're having is at
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: the core of the movie, and like clearly he like
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: really values their respect and like doesn't want to disappoint them,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and they're kind of at the core of like the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: kind of like the back in for it that he's
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: experiencing of like does he take this role or not?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but they're just barely there. I don't know, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it is. It is one of those things
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: where it's like, I I wish there was definitely more
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: in that because that that central theme of the movie
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: comes down to two black women talking and it's like
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I wish there was more of a lead up to it. Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: that that was like that, and then the the unchecked
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: homophobia that came up at a few points in this
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: movie were certainly very Yeah, but yeah, I don't know,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: it's that was I mean, how the how the female
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: characters are kind of sidelined was like really the main
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: thing that bummed me out about this movie, because otherwise
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: it's like saying so much that no movie ever does
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and saying it that is so like still unfortunately like
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: super relevant. Yeah, and it's like, you know, black black
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: women deserve to be a part of that conversation. And
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: there's just as much, if not you know, even more
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: like comedic stuff to draw on, but it's just not
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: what this movie is doing. Yeah, I guess that like
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: the most the one of the biggest bummers of it
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: is like that's the that's the most that a lot
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: of the black actress, the three black actress in this
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: movie got to do other than the stereotypes in the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: movie like that year Like that's also like just such
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: a such such a stark thing. Is like they don't
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: really do a whole lot in necessarily this movie. But
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: it's and it's still not it's at least not the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: thing that they're lamp wounding in it. And it's like
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: still like such a mind warp of just like awfulness. Yeah, wait,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: I'm this is I'm looking at Amory Johnson's IMDb and
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: I'm realizing I've seen her in so much stuff, including
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: she was an iconic role on That's so raven. She
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: played Donna Cabana on That's So Raven all my thoughts
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: So Raven heads, you'll know who I'm talking about. Wow. Huge,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: she was in Boomerang. I remember that. Oh yeah, Wow,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: that makes me so happy. I'm googling Donna Cabana because
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: she had the best outfits. Anyways, Um, shout out to
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Donna Cabana. Um, it's saying it over and over. It
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: gets I wish I knew what that was she save.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I also did not watch She's wait. I want to
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: make sure I'm getting her character description right. I'm pretty
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: sure she Yeah, she's like a famous fashion designer in
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: the world of That's So Raven. She's like Raven's hero.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: She looks up to Donna Cabana and she wants to
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: be just like Donna Cabana. And then she meets Donna
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Cabana and guess what. Donna Cabana is a bit of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: a wacky character my Disney channel. Um, so you know
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: it's written. Uh, it's co written with Keenan, Ivory Waynes
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and Robert Townsend. Directed by Robert Townsend. It's produced by
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Robert Townsend. And there is a woman in the mix here. Um,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: there is a female Latin X producer named Lydia Nicole
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: who has gone by Lydia Fernandez at different times in
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: her career. But I did not like I once I
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: saw pictures of her. She was in a bunch of
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: she's like a child actor who kind of became a producer.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: And now UM is in charge of a nonprofit called
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: Common Sense Media and like advocates for representation in media.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: But this was like her first producing gig. She was
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: previously in another movie we talked about recently, Stand and Deliver,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: the classic. I think she was one of the students
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: in Stand and Deliver. I'm not I'm not exactly sure,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: but and she kind of pivoted into UM producing and
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: backing projects that she believed in. She started doing stand
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: up in her late twenties and like started all these
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: like women of color comedy showcases in l A and like,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just got rules. I enjoyed learning
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: about her and she she started UM. After that, she
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: she collaborated with Robert Townsend. I think a few more times.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: She's like a producer on a bunch of his projects
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: and UM and their buds. So I just wanted to
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: give her her a shout out, because it's always I mean,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: especially in the late eighties, there's like barely any women
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: high up in any Hollywood project, and so I'm glad
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: that she she like had a seat at the table there. Yeah,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. Shout out Lydia, shout out. I wonder if
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: the character in this movie Lydia was named after her?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I wow, makes I did not. I did all that
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: research and did not make that connect. Yeah, yeah, see that.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: See that. That's that symbiotic relationship. You guys, your notes
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: fit into each other's notes. We need each other to
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: connect the dots. Sometimes, yeah, you're mad mad Venom vibes here.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I listened to the themes that Eminem theme song
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: from Venom when I just need a good laugh because
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: it's so funny. WHOA, I didn't know that was a thing.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's just like him who knows what
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: he's thinking for must but then he goes just Venom,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: but like just he just screams Venom, and you're just like,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: this is such a disaster. It's it's the funniest song
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: in the world. I forgot all about that song. And yeah,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: the best part of Venom laid in the movie. Yeah,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: as if that movie could couldn't get any more like
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: bash you over the head with when it's about Eminem
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: starts screaming Venom in the middle like it is wild.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: That's great. That's also the most San Francisco movie. That's
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: like that year. It's like that movie and Last black
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Man in San Francisco were like I was like, wow
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: that it was like that was part of the San
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Francisco come up. San Francisco representation at an all time high.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: You had Sorry to Bother You, Last black Man, San Francisco,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: and Venom like they all came out like within a year.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, yo, mad, San Francisco movies all very similar. Wow.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna do a quick shout out. I mean,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: I don't really have like much to note in terms
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: of his character, but always love to see John Witherspoon.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, John Willispoon so good the he's his boss
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: at the hot dog stand, Dinky Dog. I was curious.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I was like when I saw that, I'm like, I
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: wonder how like because they're like uniform in the aesthetic
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: is similar to Good Burger, and I'm like, I wonder
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: if Good Burger is pulling from the Hollywood Shuffle asthetic.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: It's the it's the expanding universe. Yeah, Jamie, I think
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: it's crucial that we cover Good Burger on the Bendel Cast. Absolutely.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: In my in my notes, I wrote, like, am I
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: reaching dog looks? I don't think so. I Good Burger
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: was my favorite movie. I don't know what year it
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: came out, but whatever year it came out, that was
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: my favorite movie of that year. Yeah. Well that I
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: was like, I was like, Titanic was my favorite if
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it is ninety seven, obviously Titanic is my favorite movie
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: of ninety seven. I would love to see, like you,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: at like ten years old, what your top Tenny, You're
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: like like, You're like, yo, it's it's Titanic, it's good Burger,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Good Burger. And I found as good as he gets.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: I found it tart a bit derivative for me. Yeah,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: that was the word. I was saying that tarts a flavor, right,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: I think movies can be tarted. I haven't revisited Good
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Burger in so long. Oh my god, I got my
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: little Good Burger. Antenna went up because they have the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: same like hats. I'm like, maybe that's just what hats
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: looked like at fast food restaurants in the eighties and nineties.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I think don't remember. Even so, even so,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: good Burger is important for us to talk about. Speaking
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: of Winky Dinky Dogs, another thing that I didn't love
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: to see, obviously was Bobby constantly fat shames one of
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: his co workers at Winky Dinky Dogs and another just
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: like of the time, still a problem him in Hollywood.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Not good. Another thing I wanted to Sam, you brought
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: this up, but I wanted to just say a little
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: bit more about it as far as another piece of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: commentary that the movie does in terms of um black
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: actors with really impressive credentials being forced into again just
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: the reductive roles that are available to them. Because there's
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: that scene where like that guy's like, I just I
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: got my degree at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: and then he goes on to try to audition for
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: this role. He doesn't do a good job, and then
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: he's like, wait a minute, I can do it in
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I ambic pentameter u. Yeah. Yeah. I always I always
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: think of as a class thing, Like I always think
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: of him as like this this like up pitty like
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: Ivy League guy, and he's like, oh no, you can't
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: even you can't. You know you you were so removed
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: from from what's like really going on to be able
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: to do it, and and then to have the audacity
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: to be like, oh yeah, I can do it. It's
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: like my favorite thing I was. It's very it's so funny.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: I was reading it as how so many black actors
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: will have like or just like performance artists in general,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: they'll have gone to like Juilliard or like, you know,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: some really well regarded school. They'll have an impressive educational background.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: They'll have had to put in so much more work
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: than their white peers, but you know, have access to
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: way fewer opportunities to showcase their hard work and their talent,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: which seems very pulled from like Robert Townson's own life too,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: because he's like extremely well trained. He like went through
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: all every second city course on the planet. He was
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: like a part of a theater company in New York.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Like he like put in the hours and like, yeah,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: those scenes especially, I feel like the movie is like
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: at its strongest when he's like pulling from his like
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: personal experience, and like the same for Keen and Ivory
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: wins because it's like, yeah, he went to school for
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: this for fucking years and years and years. You know.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: I forgot to mention this when we were talking abou
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: winky Dinky dogs might go on perfect beginning to a sentence.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: I just love when he's like, when we see that
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: the minimum wage has only gone up five dollars in
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: thirty two and thirty two or thirty three years. Yeah,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, because because Keena's like I
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: was making two fifty, I'm making to sixty five. Yeah. Yeah, man,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what adjusted for inflation that even is,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: but like, damn, just not criminal how little we pay. Um.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I went in to kittlee do you reference this at
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: the beginning? I have some some notes on it that
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: how this movie was received at the time of its release. Um,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: so it's kind of I didn't notice that there were
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: a few lukewarm reviews based on kind of the stuff
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: we were talking about, where like some reviewers kind of
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: knocked Townsend for not addressing or just kind of making
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: light of the struggle of black female actors and also
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: of queer people, and like, there were certainly points lost,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: mostly from female reviewers, from that, but it's generally really
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: well reviewed when it comes out. Ebert gave it three stars,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: which I mean, he's only got thumps, he's only got
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: two thumbs, but he's got three stars from and he
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: does I guess. I guess he does three out of
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: four stars. So if you're thinking of five, like so
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: he gave, he said it was an artistic compromise, but
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: a gistical triumph, announcing the arrival of a new talent
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: whose next movie should really be something. And it's like,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: shut up, but like you sounded just you sounded just
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: like Durantula when you said it's like people people liked it,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: and it was it did really well, and it seems like,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: um yeah, everyone was like, oh wow, like here's this
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: like new oh tour and so so that I found that,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I honestly like, you just never know with especially in
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: like the late eighties, where it's like there's next to
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: no one in the film reviewing community that is not
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: an old white guy that like is really trying to
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: be Roger Ebert. So I think there's worth noting though that,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: at least on the Rotten Tomatoes count, this movie was
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: only reviewed by critics versus major blockbuster wide release movies
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: that will get hundreds of reviews. So this is the
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: type of movie like it could have been elevated had
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: more critics reviewed it and reviewed it positively and like
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: that would have encouraged more people to see it. And
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: in fact, I'm curious, So listeners, tell us how familiar
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: you are with this movie, because this movie, I think
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: it's kind of it's like off the beaten path for
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of audiences. Like it's not a super well
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: known movie, and I knew next to nothing about it
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: before we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, I feel
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: like most people I know very few people who have
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: heard of it. It's always like it's always either someone
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: has seen it and loved it or has never even
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: heard of it, right, Like I I've never met someone
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: who's been like, oh I heard of it. I I've
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: always want to sit, you know. I never like yeah,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's that kind of movie. Is like people who
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: would be into it have like definitely seen it, you know,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: or they're like, wow, I can't believe I didn't see it.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like it reminds your nights silver were
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: nanty Is that how you say nights of Rodancy, Like,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: is Rodanty a person or a place? Um, we don't know.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's a small village in Italy. That's probably
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: a safe bet. I was hoping you both were going
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: to be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of it. No,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: here's what's really embarrassing. I've seen Nights in Rodanthy Knights
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: of Rodanthy. I don't know what preposition it is. I've
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: seen that movie. I have no idea what Rodanthy is.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I can't I don't remember that movie evening. You ever
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: see that? It's like Vanessa Redgrave and like Patrick Wilson
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: and um, well, uh what's his name? From Center Beauty
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: There in a Beauty Beauty Seat, the one with Billy
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: crut Up where he's like Claire Danes and our needs
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know why that was the movie,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: The way that you got to Claire Danes, that that
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: was some more Tom Hardy venom bro Dancy is a
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: tiny village. Yeah, hell you nailed it. Hell yeah yeah,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: you guys say you guys thought I didn't bring fucking notes.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: I brought notes. I brought notes to the backtel you
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? We Um, does anyone have any
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: other thoughts on Hollywood Shuffle. Oh, yeah, we would talking
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: about That's one of my favorite movies. We should do
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: we should do a podcast episode about it. Oh, I
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: think that might be a good idea. Oh, I just wanted.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, Um, my favorite part in
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Hollywood Shuffle has always been the movie critics uh segment.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: It's just my absolute favorite. I it's just jokes on
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: tops of jokes. I I love it so much. There
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: is I don't want to see Attack of the Street Pimps,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: and I think it's it's bad everything about it. It's
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: it's very existence is bad for society. But god damn,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: that's hilarious. That scene. It's just so fucking funny. When
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: they're because like they reviewed these and when they do
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: the amadas and he's like I used to say, so
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: my friends, just like man, I adn't go to see
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: any bullshit I can't pronounce, Like, how are you gonna
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: be like even like I'm gonna see i'm a i'm
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: a what I can't stell laughing. And then when they
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: do the Dirty Harry because I always I never liked
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: Dirty Harry. And when they did the Dirty Larry and
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: that whole Dirty Larry sequence. I think it's like one
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: of the funniest things ever ever seen, Like when when
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: he's like when they're talking about the guns, and then
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: and then they're like, yo, you think you're gonna have
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: a fucking conversation right now? Like I just I just
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: love this movie. Man. Yeah. That was. And at the
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: end of the Attack of the Street Pimps review, they
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: eat like they were like, it was full of stereotypes,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: but we thought the direction was brilliant when they're like, Yo,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: that guy looks just like the dude from down the street.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: Crack up so much. I really like that. This is
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: a very like specific joke that people don't make opted
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: because it's a weird joke to make often. But at
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: the end of the movie reviewing segment, they give up
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: a high five and they do like a light slab
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: they go like, which always makes me laugh so much
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: when someone does a bunch of tepid high fives in
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: a row. Hadn't seen it in a while. I was laughing.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I can't remember if I'm gonna get you sucker came
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: out before this. I think it came out right after.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: I think right after right, So this was Damon Wayans
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: debut on screen. I think. Wow. That's the other thing
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: that's so amazing is like you look at this gast
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: and it's just like a list of black excellence from
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: like you know, Damon Wayans, Paul Mooney, Robert Townsend. Uh,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's just remarkable. Um. I just wish more
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: women had been involved, meaningful, especially because they passed Helen Martin,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: who is like an iconic black sitcom actress, Like why
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: not give her more to do? Yeah? Yeah, no, I mean, hey,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: I I completely agree with you. I love I love
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: feminism and famously new T shirt design. Our merchant is
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: getting more and more basis time passes. I love feminism,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Sam Mike. If you guys start doing, no, your next merch,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: your next merch is going to be like YouTube as
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: venom and hardy, like front to back, like one of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: you was venom, one of you was hardy, and like,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the new merch. Like Yo, beck
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: Deel listeners, if you're still listening, go on the comments,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Go on the go on the Bechdel cast Reddit, Get
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Jamie and data to make venom t shirts. Done done? Fine, Fine,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: I'll do it. Well, does the movie pass the Beck
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: dol test Um. I think I didn't think it did.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't sure. I honestly like, I wasn't
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: paying super super closettention. But it did seem like most
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: times female characters were talking to each other, it was
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: about either Bobby or there is that thing where they
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: were at the at the audition scene where to nameless
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: actresses were talking about um getting sexually harassed by a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: male director. There's a couple there's a scene where the
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: like the casting director I think is like her role.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: She is named as Millicent. She is talking to another
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: woman who gets named as Miss Strickland, and they talk
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: about the role that Ms Strickland is auditioning for and
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: like the type of person they are looking for. So
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: that technically passes. And then the scene with Bobby's I
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: was so nervous, Wait, so it does pass. I think
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: it does because I would also I think there's an
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: argument to be made for the scene where Bobby's mom
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: and grandma they are talking about Bobby, but it's part
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: of a larger conversation about negative representations of black people
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: in media. So I was like, okay that that feels
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: like it would be maybe an exception to the rule.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. The bottom line, women aren't in this
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: movie enough. There's not enough commentary on the way black
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: women are represented in media. And it's the bummer because
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: there's more than enough room for it in exact movie
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: and like more than enough material too end things to
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: be said about it. And with that in mind, as
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: far as our nipple scale, in which we write the
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: on an intersectional examination of the movie, even though it
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: is providing a lot of really funny and effective commentary
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: on the way black men specifically are represented in Hollywood,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: as we've been saying, there is a noticeable lack of
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: commentary as it relates to Black women and their representation
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: in media. And I think even though some of the
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: characters who are women in the movie, like especially the grandma,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: I would say is the kind of most important character
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: to Bobby, she still doesn't get that much screen time.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: His girlfriend doesn't get much screen time. We know nothing
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: about her. There's just there's just not enough there. And
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: there are many cases in which black men haven't shown
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: up for black women as much as they should and
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: this just kind of feels like one of those examples
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: of like, why wouldn't you when you're making a movie
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: that is specifically like a satire and specifically commentary on
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: black representation in media, why wouldn't you include black women
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: in that more meaningfully? And then there's the homophobic jokes
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: and slurs that get made. So I don't know where
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: to land on this exactly on the nipple scale, I
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: guess I think I can only really give it like
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: a two point five. Yeah, I was gonna go like
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: a two two point five. I agree with with everything
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: you're saying. Um, yeah, there's just there's a ton of
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: opportunities to include women and commentary on how black women
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: struggle in Hollywood. Here it wasn't done. You have like
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: such a like such such tremendously talented Black actresses in
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: this movie, and they don't really get to do much.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: But I do feel like this movie does something that
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: just wasn't done at all at this time, and there
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: wasn't any money put behind, and the fact that it
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: exists through like Robert Townsend's like Cheer will Power is
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: really amazing. Yeah, and and and I was happy to
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: see that there is a female producer. But yeah, ultimately
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: it's like there's no reason women and where people shouldn't
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: have been included more meaningfully here, And uh, I wish
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: it had that said. I really enjoyed the movie. It's
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: I like I would. If you haven't seen it genuinely,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: you should see it. It's really funny and good. Yeah.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: But two nipples. As far as as far as our
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: scale goes, I guess, and I will give Who will
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: I give my nipples to? I will give I will
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: give one to Helen Martin, and I'll give one to
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: a Marie Johnson. I'll go the obvious route. I'll do
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: the same, and I'll give my extra half nipple two
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: winky dinky dogs iconic. Yeah, Sam, what about you? What
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts? Um? I I do agree with everything
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: you said. I think for me, it's one of those
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: things is just like a male black comic. It's I
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: see I look at the film and I just see
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: what it what it's done, and to me, I feel
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: like some of his shortcomings is made up for what
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: it has done for black creative people as a whole
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: for thirty years. And I think that it's set a standard.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: It's set a precedent. It's set a pathway, and I
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: think that pathway has been used greatly for men and women.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: That it's still like a there's still a lot to do,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: but I do feel like it does do that, and
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, it's just like there's
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: not there weren't a lot of um just to get
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: to a Blackmail in seven, writing, producing, and starring in
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: his own film that is seen by countless theaters across
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: the country. That feet in and of itself, I feel
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: like is just so impressive and just and just so
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: meaningful overall that I think that it that some of
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: the stuff that I think would be if it was
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: remade today, which you know, we already talked about why
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't work today, but like if it was remade today,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: I think those things would not be in it. Right,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: So I look at it is like it all will
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have as meaningful of an impact as it
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: did then, And I feel like what it does there,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's just like it's the only thing
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: I can see when I see the film. But I
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: I again don't I don't disagree, it's just it's just
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: it's just something that I I can only see its
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: progress because it's just it's the only thing like it
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: there's there still hasn't been anything quite like it besides
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: Scary Movie, which is made by the co writer of
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: the film you know. Um. So it's a feat that
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: only two black eyes have ever done in thirty years,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: and one of them both of them were in the
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: same movie, you know. So it's it's just that that's
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: that's what I see. But I also don't disagree with
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: anything you said. Uh, at the end of the day,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: I would give it like, I would give it five nipples,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: and I would give all of them to Anthony Hopkins.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: The twist full disclosure, I might cut that whole human
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: staying part out of the episode. So if you want to,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: I like it, I like I like the mystery I
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: will be based on based on what you just described,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: I'll bump up to a two point five. I'll match
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Caitlin there because I hadn't. Yeah, like that the fact
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: that Hollywood Shuffle did like pave the way for black
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: female comedians, the black female you know tours like. Yeah,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: it's very existence is the thing that I find so
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: as funny. Like to me, it's still one of the
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: funniest movies I've ever seen. But it's very existence even
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: exceeds how much I love it's humor. Sure, yeah, it's
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: legacy even though, and that's what kind of like I
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: wish it had. It definitely has a legacy, and it
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: definitely did a lot to pave the way and inspire
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: particularly black filmmakers and just artists of color. I wish
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: that it had a bigger legacy in terms of I
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: wish more people have seen this movie. But you can
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: see it's impact truly, like what it was. It was
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: kind of fun to watch this movie and also and
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: and be able to be like, oh, you know, I've
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: seen like a ton of TV and movies that clearly
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: are pulling from this movie. I just didn't realize it,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: right totally. Yeah it's and yeah, it's just it's so
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: I can't stress enough how to any listener that hasn't
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: seen it, Like, how god damn funny it is? It's
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: so funny. Oh, I wonder do most of your listeners
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: have they seen the movie? Like do they tell you
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: if they've seen the movie? Like some people only listen
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: to the episode if they've seen the movies. Some people
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: will watch listen to the episode regardless of whether or
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: not they've watched the movie. Yeah, because most of the
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: movies you guys do is old. So I was I
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: was always fascinating, like yeah, because I wonder if I
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: wonder I wonder if anyone's listeners and hasn't seen it
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: and still wants to see it, like you know what
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's always I'm always I'm fascinating like that,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: if you guys have any of that kind of like
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: ratio if like there's a lot of people that are like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: I check out Lolita because I heard it on the
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: back dep hopefully not that one, but I think that, um,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: regardless of it, it's shortcomings that we discussed. I think
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: this is a movie worth watching. So if you have
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: not seen it, you have listened to this episode all
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: the way to this point, I would recommend checking the
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: movie out because again it's still making a lot of
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: meaningful and important, ineffective points that are still again all
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: too relevant today. So in that way, like there's some
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: things that like age poorly about this movie, the you know,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: the homophobia and the fat shaming and the kind of
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: ignoring women, but there's other there's many other things about
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: the ignoring, but other things about it are are still
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: sadly pretty relevant. So M yeah, um, we'll say m
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on this roller
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: coaster of an episode. I've had a blast me too,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: so thanks. Here. Where can people check out your your stuff?
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Follow you on social media? Yeah? Um, you can follow
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: me at the sam ike on Twitter, Instagram. Um you
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: can also, um, if you want. I've been trying to
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: become like the biggest Zoom comic. So if you can
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: follow me on Zoom, I'm ww dot zoom dot com.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Slash four six seven HP five to f C two
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: seven w x Y that's my Zoom link. Click on it,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: I'll join you, get in the group, build my brand. Yeah,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. I've got a good feeling about this,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: and the pivot to Zoom is gonna be huge. It's
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be big. I'm gonna be crushing it. I'm gonna
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: get like I'm already at like I'm already at like
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: three thousand Zoom followers. Y'all just people just sitting there
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: waiting for me to come on and be like, Yo,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: here's my house, and you know what you know who
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: also is going to hear this, Jill Loft, This is
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: about to send a zoom request. Did she listen to
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: every episode? Yeah? She listened. She she will listen to
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: your episode. She doesn't listen. Caitlin has a more thorough
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: mother than I do. My mom does listen to every episode.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: Hi mom, HILARI yo. Mr Durantula, y'all shout out. Uh.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: Durantula has always been really tight. I hope you're enjoying Scran. Uh.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: She doesn't live in Scranton. I always thought, I thought,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: I know you're from Scran. No, I've never lived None
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: of my family has ever lived in Scranton. They live
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: outside of State College, Pennsylvania. Damn it. Yes, you're right,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: you're You tell me that every time, and I always
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: think you're saying Scran. I always, for some ways, I
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: always think you're saying Scran. Good grief. Well, yeah, so
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: our moms are cool. That's the moral of this story
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: and what else. You can follow us on social media
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can check
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: out our Patreon a k A Matreon. We have a
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of episodes there in the back catalog and probably
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of Diane Lane on the way, so much
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: coming up. I can't wait for your listeners to be like, yeo,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: I really liked them, but when they got into that
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: Diane Lane phase, it was really they just lost me.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: They lost that magic when they started focusing on strictly
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: Diane Lane. Unfortunately, it is going to inspire us to
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: change the name of the podcast to the Rectal Cast,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: and who knows what that's gonna be about. Even Dianne
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: really fucked us over. But anyway, if you do want
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: to check out our Matreon material, you can do that
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: at patreon dot com slash spectol Cast. It's a five
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: dollar a month subscription and you get access to too
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: bonus episodes every month, plus all past and future Diane
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: Lane episodes. Holy sh is this a bonus episode? No,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: this is a real one. This is a baby Oh shit?
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: Oh funk? I would have like tried you would have
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: taken notes? Well, honestly, it's it's fine that it's better
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: that you didn't. Yes, we wouldn't have gotten the Tom
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: Hardy venom reference if you had taken notes, And that
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: was just beautiful, pure improv. Yeah. I love Yes and
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: and ship Man shout out to Dell Close. Also, we've
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: got our public store where you can get all of
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: our our merch, including maybe a new T shirt design
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: that is I Love feminism. Well, do you have many?
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: They're gonna start, They're gonna start really just flying off
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: the shelf. I'm telling you, I'm telling you the way
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: to go. You guys got to get into that Venom
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: you gotta get Yeah, that's true. They got that sequel
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson. Oh really, Oh god, Yeah, Allison's gonna be carnage.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: He's carnage is like Venom but red pass hard pass um.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you can get our merch at t public
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: dot com. Slash the Bechtel cast and uh with that
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: by everyone. Oh yeah,