Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Darwin Turf Club Chairman Richard O’Sullivan says there's no legal requirement for the club to pay the controversial grandstand grant money back

Transcript

Darwin Turf Club Chairman Richard O’Sullivan says there's no legal requirement for the club to pay the controversial grandstand grant money back · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, as I mentioned on the show on Friday, Thoroughbred
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Racing NT and the Darwin Turf Club have declared their
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: outright opposition to the Northern Territory government's decision to recall
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the twelve million dollar grant for the construction of the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Darwin Turf Club grand Stand.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Thoroughbred Racing NT chairman Sid Sterling said that the twelve
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: million dollars was spent and acquitted on the grand stand,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: which stands on Crown Land and has improved racegirals amenities
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: at the track, and went on to say that it
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is a productive investment and is already fully booked for
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the upcoming twenty twenty two Darwin Cup Carnival, more than
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: proving it's worth Now, I know the Northern Territory Government
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: is obviously seeking to recover these funds after an investigation
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: by the Independent Commission against Corruption made findings of misconduct
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: in relation to the awarding of the grant of will
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to the Darwin Turf Club. So should the Turf Club
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: have to pay this money back? Well, you can let
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: us know what you think. But joining me in the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: stud is Richard O'Sullivan, the new Darwin Turf Club chair
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Good morning to you Richard.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie Richard.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming in this morning. Why shouldn't the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: turf club pay this money back?
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: If I can just step you through the process. Initially,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: the government invested twelve million dollars in a grandstand at
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: the Darwin Turf Club. Allegedly the Chief Minister was the
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: proponent in Cabinet of that grant money. The money was
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: a grant and the gran grandstand was built. All twelve
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: million in funds allocated by the government were acquitted following audit.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: The Darwin Turf Club doesn't have the ability to pay
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: twelve million. The industry itself. This is the jockeys, the trainers,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: the strappers and all those people connected with the industry,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: and it's a big industry. It injects one hundred and
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: forty million into economy. That industry hadn't seen an increase
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: in funding for five years. They've absorbed increases in cost
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: of training horses in running stables of around thirty percent.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Those people are vulnerable. The klawback demand by government is
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: hurting that industry. And these are battlers. People at live
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: in caravans. These aren't well off trainers and jockeys and strappers.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: The money from Silks is the government initially thought isn't
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: available for repayment of this money. Silk's money is tied
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: up for further four years. So we're claiming that the
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: government's clawback claim is hurting industry, hurting morale, hurting morale
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: even at the Darwin Turf Club with its personnel and
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: its recruitment.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: You mentioned then Silks because I know that a lot
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: of people listening will be thinking to themselves, well, why
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: can't the dar And Turf Club pay this money back?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: They must be making a fortune at Silks.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: The arrangement at Silks, that's your net because the governments
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: are guar and taught for part of this funding. So
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: the government should be very aware the governments are going
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: tour for three and a half minion of that funding.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: The arrangement is that the Darwen Turf Club and to
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: a lesser extent, the Ella Springs Turf Club, who are
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: investors in Silks, don't get their money back or don't
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: claim back money until the loan is repaid in full.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: That's four years.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Time, okay, So in four years time, the reality is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: that that loan will hopefully be all paid back. But
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: until then there's no capacity really for that payment to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: come out.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: All the money's made.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: There, Katie, there's no ability of the Darwin Turf Club
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: to pay money. As I've said, the industry has suffered
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: for five years, no increase in funding and prize money,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: in money generally to train as jockey strappers. One point
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: to me is beyond our scape of ability.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So what impact would repaying this money have on racing
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in the Northern territory.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: That's a very very good question because racing in the
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Northern Territory isn't isn't Darwin, isn't Alis, isn't Tenan Kraig,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: isn't Catherine, isn't The jockeys, the trainers move their horses
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: around the territory. So any impact on racing in Darwin
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: impacts Alice. Just this weekend we had seven Darwin jockeys
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: in Alice Springs, the trainers in Alice Springs for the
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Cup Carnival coming up, and none of them are from Darwin.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Those people support racing throughout the charity, so it's indivisible.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Any impact on Darwin impacts on Adelaide River, Catherine, Tanan Creek,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Alice Springs.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, does the Darwin Turf Club right now feel
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: as though they've been hung out to dry by some
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: degree by the Northern Territory government. The fact is whether
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: people agree or disagree with the grant being.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Awarded, it was awarded.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: You guys have said, you know that you've gone through
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: all the acquittal shift, it's been audited by an external
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: accountancy firm.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Do you feel as though you being hung out to
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: dry here?
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, Katie. We've gone through a process of governance renewal
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: at the turf Club. We've gone through a governance audit
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: required by the Into government. We've tightened up controls. We
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: also feel that the legitimacy of the clawback is not there.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: But we've sustained our element of the agreement with the government.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: We've done a government a government's order. We've complied with that.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: We've come out with a reasonably clean sheet.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you accept though, and I'm assuming that
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: you do that the Independent Commission against Corruption the IKAK
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: did make findings of misconduct in relation to the awarding
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: of the grant.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: You know, I can't possibly comment there because I wasn't there, Kadi.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I'm new on the board. I'm a new chairman. I
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: wasn't around. I've read the IQQ report and there are
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: appeals against that IQAQ report. Now, if those appeals are upheld,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: that puts the government in a pretty invidious position.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So the government, on the other hand, would be thinking,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: or they'd be feeling to themselves, well, these twelve million
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: dollars has you know, has indeed been awarded. What we
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: thought was going on behind the scenes wasn't going home
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes, according to that IKAC report, and we
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: want the money back.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: This is my view. To my view, it's a bit petulant.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: You make the decision, you grant the money, the money
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: is acquitted, it's expended as required, and then you want
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: it back. Tennis NT had a tennis court built. I
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: think there was a contribution of around seventeen million there
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: and the gradings of the service wasn't right. The government
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: hasn't called for that money back.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So do you feel as though this is opening a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: bit of a can of worms If they're asking for
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: this grant money back, well, are they going to do
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the same If you know, other sporting organizations or others
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: maybe don't fulfill their end of the bargain in the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: way that they hope or expect.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: That's exactly the point. The ability of a government to
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: change the parameters of grant money must be of concern
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: to all bodies that receive all not for profit bodies,
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: which the dun Turf Club is all not for profit
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: profit bodies who receive money. If the government can petantly
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: turn around say we want to back this is something
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I've never heard of. I'm a bit staggered. In my past,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I was in charge of the associations at which is
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: all the incorporated associations not for profit bodies in the
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Northern Charity. I have never heard of this being done
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: in the past.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Richard.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Look, there will definitely be people listening this morning who
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: are thinking to themselves, I'll come on, the turf Club
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: can afford to pay this back? You know, to say
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that there are people living in caravans and that it's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: not a wealthy sporting organization surely isn't right.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: They might turn up to the races a few times
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: a year and see what is a pretty extraordinary event
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: that gets put on and think, how can you not
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: pay the money back? It's taxpayers money, but from what
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you're saying there is not that capacity.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Now, look, we've just formulated a budget going forward. There's
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: a contingency of around eighty thousand dollars in the darw
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: And Turf Club budget that can't accommodate one point to
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: mellion paybacklutely cannot.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And so right now, is the government suggesting that you
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: pay this off like a payment plan or what are
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: they suggesting.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: The correspondence, and the correspondence has been through Thoroughbred Racing
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: in ta is that the payback be effected over a
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: period of time. The latest I've seen was a payback
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: of one point two million dollars over ten years, which
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: then amounts to twelve million. We can't afford a cent
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: right now?
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, where is this all going to land?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Because if they force this upon Thoroughbred Racing in Tea
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: and the Darwin Turf Club, which like I say, some
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: people out there listening will agree that they need to.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: If they force this upon those two organizations, what's going
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to happen.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: I can't really comment on that, Katie. The duty of
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: a board member of a director is to make sure
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: you have an ongoing concern. Solvency is a critical issue.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: If the clawback of one point two million jeopardized as
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: the solvency of the dar and Turf Club, that Doe
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: and Turf Club doesn't exist.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: What does that mean for the Northern territory when you
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: talk about tourism, when you talk about visitation, all of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: those things that really went into that initial proposal. I
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: would suspect to get the grant money for the Grand
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: stat Well, what it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Means is we've got the best We've got the best
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: bookings to my knowledge ever for the darm And Cup Cardinal.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: There were thirteen days feature days on the Carnal we
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: bring in last year. A year before with COVID we
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: brought in one hundred and forty million. We've got the
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: capacity to bring in far, far greater revenue to the government.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: The government gets gst out of that. The industry wide, hospitality, hotels, etc.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: All benefit. The government is jeopardizing this industry by claiming
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: the clawback of twelve million dollars.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: So what are your next steps?
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: What is the Turf Club going to do and what's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: thoroughbred racing going to do here? Because it seems as
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: though the government's digging their heels in and it seems
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: as though both the two organizations are saying we're not
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: going to be able to do this, so we're next.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Our advice, Katie is legally there is no legal requirement
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: of the Darwin Turf Club to pay back the grant money.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: The Darwin Turf Club has executed the agreement with the
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Northern Territory government. It's built the grandstand, the funds that
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: the twelve men have been acquitted, and there's been an
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: audit following that which has cleared the Turf Club. We've
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: built what were required to build. I wasn't there. What's
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: upsetting to the current board is they're a new board
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: voted in last year as clean skins to help repair
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: the situation. We thought we'd gone a long way to
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: do that and we're now being held to account by
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: a government insisting on the claim back of a grant.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And I understand that you've got a petition as well.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: The Turf Club and all the Thoroughbread Racing is going
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to be starting a petition over the next couple of
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: days to that effect.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: It will I've got that right in front of me, Katie,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: and if you would like to sign, I'll be the
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: first person to go.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say a political I reckon and look
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you right at the time when it all happened, I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: questioned the government's motivation behind awarding that twelve million dollars
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: right from the get go. I could see, based on
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: what was going on around the territory that there were
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: concerns when it came to the health system and other
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: issues at that point in time. But the fact of
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the matter is they did indeed award that twelve million
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: dollar grant.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: The turf Club has built.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: The grandstand, as you've said, it's on Crown Land, and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I do wonder what kind of impact this is going
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: to have on the broader racing community.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I think the points you make a valid The
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: day and Turf Club board is a voluntary board. No
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: one gets paid. My time is my time. It's volunteered.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I've got the best of goodwill, I had meetings, a
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: meeting with Michael Gunner with the best of goodwill, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: it's come to this. I'm very disappointed. I feel as
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: if I've been let down and the government in its
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: clawback claim, to my mind, has been petul I don't
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: know what the reason is. It doesn't think it's got
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: value for money. It needs to provide that reason well.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Richard O'Sullivan the new Turf Club, the New Darwin Turf
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Club Chairman.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: coming in.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you, K