Latest / Nonsense with cj little and Jeff Parker / Play or Decay: Why Your Brain Craves Fun

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Play or Decay: Why Your Brain Craves Fun · Nonsense with cj little and Jeff Parker

0:00
Welcome to nonsense season 4 episode.
0:01
No, I was gonna do this differently.
0:03
Already off the rails, the. First sentence.
0:06
Welcome to Nonsense Season 4, episode 24, Our big story.
0:09
I'm Jeff Parker. Do I sound different today?
0:11
Are we in a library? What's going on is.
0:13
That I just always do the thing real loud and I thought I would
0:15
do it different. Today I'm so confused.
0:17
It's a different kind of show. We didn't have a show for
0:19
Tuesday, so I thought, well, let's change things up on the
0:21
Thursday show, too. Let's make this really
0:23
different. Look, we're recording in the
0:24
lobby at the DMV, and we don't want to upset the people next to
0:27
us taking their tests. But they might be disturbed.
0:29
That's true. Are you you CJ Little?
0:30
I am I, I am CJ Little. There's a space in between those
0:34
two, which I recently discovered.
0:35
This time, we're looking at entertainment as emotional
0:38
survival. How play rewires your prefrontal
0:40
cortex Up next. I'm not sure there's any wiring
0:43
in my prefrontal cortex. It's like the movie shot where
0:46
they had, like the old telephone switchboard, but nothing's
0:48
plugged in. Yeah, it's just a bunch of
0:50
receptacles, a bunch of. Jack And on the floor there's
0:52
just a pile of cords. Pile of cords.
0:54
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
0:56
And there's nobody to put them in.
0:58
There's a, there's one older lady in the quarter smoking and
1:00
he was like, I'm not plugging those in.
1:02
No, I'm good. Doesn't really matter, when I
1:04
plug him in I don't get any signal anyway.
1:06
Doesn't change anything. Yeah, there's no 0 point in.
1:08
It if you look at the back of the board and other receptacles
1:10
are wired to anything. It's just my prefrotal cortex is
1:13
basically a prop is what I'm saying.
1:15
That's the P stands for I. Was worried because this topic
1:17
is going to be a lot of brain theory.
1:20
Yeah, this part of the brain does this.
1:21
This part of the brain does this.
1:22
Why we need to stimulate not? Theory.
1:24
I wouldn't call that theory that's that's pretty well
1:26
documented. All right, like I said, it's
1:27
brain documentation. Nevertheless, I thought, boy,
1:30
and it's supposed to be a show on entertainment.
1:32
This is not going to be very entertaining if we're just
1:34
talking about brain stuff. I think we're going to be OK.
1:36
Maybe we'll we'll see. But so far, I think we're going
1:38
to be OK. I thought we were doing this
1:39
because 95% of our shows we talk about tech and or business.
1:43
It is true. And we always put entertainment
1:44
in there. And I'm like, so instead of
1:46
talking about a part of entertainment, we're literally
1:47
just talking about entertainment.
1:49
A broad topic of entertainment? Yes, my son's girlfriend
1:51
originally suggested this topic. Talk about entertainment.
1:54
And I said, what do you mean? What part of entertainment?
1:57
She said just all entertainment. And I went, ohh, sure.
2:00
That's actually a really great topic.
2:02
That's kind of smart, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
2:03
And now your son owes her 100 bucks.
2:06
Maybe that's where that came from.
2:07
He was like, they won't do a show on entertainment.
2:09
She's like, hold my beer and then here we are.
2:11
Entertainment is interesting 'cause obviously it's a very
2:14
yeah, wide aperture. Like extremely wide.
2:16
We'll define it. We'll narrow it down.
2:17
Well, I would hope. OK, the play Instinct
2:20
Entertainment as an evolutionary essential.
2:22
Let's go. I don't think of entertainment
2:24
as being an evolutionary essential.
2:25
So you're gonna have to sell me all this.
2:27
OK, more than like thumbs. I feel like thumbs is an
2:29
evolutionary essential. If I'm making a list of
2:32
evolutionary essentials, I feel like entertainment should be
2:35
down. That's probably true.
2:49
We often worship at the altar of the grind, measuring our worth
2:52
by the sheer output of our labor.
2:53
In this culture of relentless utility, entertainment is
2:56
frequently dismissed as a distraction, A frivolous detour
2:59
from the real work of building a life.
3:00
But as Albert Einstein famously observed, play is the highest
3:03
form of research. Einstein also observed that two
3:06
things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
3:08
Yeah, and he said he wasn't sure about the universe.
3:10
We don't just crave stories were built from them.
3:12
From flickering cave fires to the neon glow of the metaverse,
3:15
entertainment is far more than a guilty pleasure, it's a
3:18
biological imperative. From an evolutionary standpoint,
3:20
play was our first simulator. It allowed us to rehearse
3:23
survival, navigate social hierarchies, and decode complex
3:26
emotions without the risk of real world consequences.
3:29
Today, that drive. Remains, and fortunately, from
3:31
an evolutionary perspective, the metaverse has been cancelled.
3:34
Yes, it has. While a strong work ethic fuels
3:37
our progress, the cognitive playground of entertainment
3:39
fuels our sanity. It binds through shared myths
3:41
and provides the social glue necessary for human cooperation.
3:44
I always thought alcohol was the social glue and.
3:46
Alcohol is the social Lube. As Doctor Ruth Westheimer used
3:50
to say, Don't confuse your Lube and glue.
3:52
No, but to be fair they put the damn Astro glue in a purple tube
3:56
and I don't understand why that happens.
3:58
Pick a different color. Maybe make a tube a different
4:00
size. Also make the coupon good for
4:02
only one and not. Both, not the other.
4:04
In a world that demands constant utility, we look to the screen
4:07
and the stage to remember what it means to feel.
4:09
To crib a line from place theorist Brian Sutton Smith, the
4:12
opposite of play is not work. It's depression.
4:14
One builds the world, the other makes it worth.
4:16
Living in now, the scope on this is obviously quite huge.
4:20
Entertainment. Yeah, that's a wide, wide
4:22
aperture. Yeah.
4:23
So I'm I think we should probably break this up into some
4:24
pieces. What you got?
4:25
What's your ideas? Well, I think first we have to
4:26
define entertainment, sort of talk about what is
4:29
entertainment. Yeah.
4:30
Or at least the scope of our conversation here, maybe.
4:32
Why do we need it? Yeah, like why?
4:33
Especially after you're a kid, 'cause I think a lot of people
4:35
think entertainment, yeah, for sure should fall off after after
4:38
childhood. For a lot of people it does.
4:39
And maybe maybe talk a little about some of the bizarre ways
4:42
we each know people have entertained themselves over
4:44
time. Because I could get spicy.
4:45
I like that. And then maybe finally, are we
4:47
just over stimulating? Ourselves everywhere, only when
4:49
possible. Only during the waking moments.
4:52
That seems to be the world we're marching towards.
4:54
The modern world. Exactly.
4:55
All right, What is entertainment?
4:57
Yes. Is entertainment.
4:58
Let me just let me just set out some parameters, OK.
4:59
Is entertainment anything that is not required to feed, clothe
5:03
or house ourselves? Anything beyond that is
5:06
entertainment. Beyond those essentials, are we
5:07
just entertaining? Years old?
5:08
Obviously there's other things like medicine that's not
5:10
entertaining. Should be.
5:11
I've seen Patch Adams. Education that's not not
5:14
necessarily entertaining, but it is I mean, obviously if you if
5:17
you do it well, you're entertaining your.
5:18
Audience I feel like all education should be
5:20
entertaining. There is a utility to becoming
5:23
educated that is important. That is not necessarily
5:26
entertaining. Yeah, I appreciate.
5:27
That hygiene, taking a shower, that's not necessarily
5:29
entertaining, again, unless you do it right.
5:30
I don't feel like we should. I mean, I also remember college.
5:35
I don't feel like we should define entertainment and as a,
5:37
as a, it's not these other things because that's gonna be a
5:40
pretty long list. I think we should think more
5:41
about what entertainment. It's not as long as you'd think.
5:44
I mean, literally it's like, yeah, social cohesion, that's
5:47
that's another thing that's not necessarily entertainment.
5:49
I don't know. You got education, you got
5:51
medicine, you got hygiene. It's a small list.
5:54
Well, hold on. I wanted, I want to disagree
5:55
with you on that. I feel like social cohesion,
5:57
that that bonding experience, yeah, should be entertained.
6:00
You might be bonded by entertainment, but that is
6:02
another thing in life that is important.
6:04
Yeah. When I walk up Runyon Cannon and
6:06
I do my hike, yeah, I am very careful to everyone who passes
6:09
by to be nice and to try to say something sure, amusing or, or
6:13
in some way will make them think of me in a fond way.
6:16
So that when they find me lying there having had a heart attack
6:19
or having, you know, tripped and fallen 30 feet, they're willing
6:22
to stop and help me. You don't.
6:23
That social bond is super important and it's not
6:26
entertainment necessary. You sure they're not going to do
6:28
like what they do on Everest and just roll you over the side and
6:30
then you can be? Like they might just roll me
6:32
into the popsicle lane. Hey, where we mean when we hike
6:35
next week? Like I'll meet by the guy with
6:36
the brown shoes. I think his name was Jeff.
6:39
Just straight up Everest. It's a common meeting place
6:41
because it's a. Common meeting.
6:42
He's the idiot. Who wore the brown shoes?
6:44
Didn't want to wear the spike. Shoes.
6:45
His own fault. And and government in law,
6:47
that's not entertainment either. We have to take care of how we
6:49
treat each other. Sure to have an exhaustive list.
6:51
There is a lot plumbing. I don't know, I feel like
6:54
things. That's part of housing yourself,
6:56
by the way. If you get elaborate, if you get
6:58
beyond survival, anything you build in your house that is
7:01
beyond what you need to survive, that's entertain attainment.
7:04
That's purely entertainment. Put in the hot tub, that's
7:06
entertainment. You don't really need that to
7:07
survive. Well, I don't know, a hot tubs,
7:09
that's like relaxing that feels that I can put in the survival
7:11
bucket. I hear your point, though.
7:13
Yeah, if you're a family of four and you've got 12 bedrooms,
7:15
yeah, of course, eight of those are probably more like, at best,
7:18
escapism. I mean, the obvious 1 is like,
7:20
you have a big home theater that's obviously entertainment.
7:23
If you have a room that's a wrapping room, guess what?
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That's entertainment too, because you could do that in
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some other part of the house. I, I I.
7:28
Always love looking at houses that have wrapping rooms.
7:30
Yeah, do you do? Just all the implication of
7:32
that, like the spellings. House, Yeah.
7:34
Yeah, like, first of all, the fact that you have a wrapping
7:36
room is pretty damn cool. But in a second, the fact that
7:38
you're you're wrapping enough presents that you need a room
7:41
dedicated to it. I just.
7:43
I really do find that fantastic. Yeah.
7:45
It'd be like the equivalent of you host for Thanksgiving, you
7:48
make a Turkey once a year, and there's a stuffing room.
7:50
Right. Like, that would just be, I
7:51
mean, actually a stuffing room could be really fun.
7:53
And you ever think it would be lovely?
7:54
That could be entertainment. Meet me in the stuffing room.
7:56
By the way, an elaborate kitchen is not necessary for survival.
7:58
Of course not. So yeah, that would be largely,
8:00
it would be entertainment. All right.
8:02
I feel like now I need to go look at Zillow and just look at
8:04
like, what percentage of the square footage in this house is
8:05
just for entertainment purposes? Exactly.
8:07
A lot of media is, yes. OK, I'm willing to agree that
8:10
most things are going to be for entertainment value and not for
8:13
like pure sustenance or. Service.
8:15
Oh no, it's about to get much, much worse with AI.
8:17
Oh yeah, we're going to be entertaining ourselves a lot
8:19
more than we even currently are as we develop more efficient
8:23
ways for the actual work to get done.
8:24
Yeah, your prefrontal cortex, right, is where all of like the
8:28
magic happens, right? That's all of your like
8:29
executive function. Decision making, that kind of
8:32
stuff. Impulse control.
8:33
So special etiquette? Sure.
8:34
Yeah. It's the opposite of the
8:35
amygdala, which is just pure. Spots, right?
8:37
It's just like a response to stimulus is what the the?
8:40
Amygdala says when you lose it, Monopoly flip over that ball
8:42
game board. Yeah, flip it in the air.
8:44
It's a prefrontal cortex that says don't do that 'cause last
8:47
time you had to do that you had to clean.
8:48
It up. No, my prefrontal cortex still
8:50
tells me to flip over the devil. It's they're they're yeah,
8:52
they're both in agreement. They're both Yeah, it doesn't it
8:54
doesn't care. Like I'm happy to pick the
8:55
pieces up. I just feel you know, statement
8:57
has to be made. Prefrontal cortex typically
8:59
develops in your brain in your brain in your mid 20s.
9:01
Yes, but the amygdala is what responds to stimuli directly,
9:05
and that's how when you're born, it's doing most all of the work.
9:08
The hope is as you age, the prefrontal cortex takes on more
9:12
of that responsibility and then maybe like it doesn't completely
9:14
fade off into the darkness, but it does less and less because
9:17
your consciousness you'll. Control those emotions.
9:19
You control those more primal thoughts.
9:21
So when you're born, your instincts, your your sort of
9:24
immediate response to things is primarily what's driving that.
9:26
A significant portion of your wiring though is formed in the
9:28
first couple years of development.
9:30
That continues on, I think all the way up until you're, you're
9:33
20. Well, you would hope.
9:34
Because things keep getting rewired and pruned and changed.
9:37
Yeah. Play is also the safe space for
9:39
failure. We do our social calibration and
9:41
play. Yeah.
9:42
You watch movies and things. You learn how to be an adult.
9:45
When you're a kid, you are having emotional experiences.
9:47
You are getting to rehearse things in a Safeway to learn the
9:51
spectrum things and how people might react to things in a
9:54
completely Safeway even though you're just passively observing.
9:56
I certainly think it's a function of the content, right?
9:58
There's some content where of course, I can observe my
10:01
children's brains melting out and slipping through through
10:03
their ears while they're watching it, right?
10:06
So like there's some of that, but you would hope that it's
10:08
more of a stimulating content that does encourage some
10:11
thought, some process. Chronic stress shrinks the
10:14
dendrites, the branches of the neurons, and the Pfc, making us
10:17
more reactive and less logical. So play activates the
10:20
parasympathetic nervous system, which counters this damage
10:23
essentially unlocks the prefrontal cortex, allowing it
10:26
to regain control from the stress driven lower brain
10:29
centers. By the way, a language is a huge
10:31
benefit for human beings in play, because in play we can
10:35
learn things vicariously that you would not necessarily want
10:38
to have to learn experientially. I didn't have to go figure out
10:40
kinematics. Somebody told me about it.
10:42
So why do we need this? Why do you need entertainment?
10:45
What is the value of it beyond childhood, right?
10:48
First of all, I believe this is hard wired in, right?
10:51
You see, because you see this in other animals, not just us.
10:55
This has been hard wired in in the I don't know when did we get
10:57
a single cell. Orgasms.
10:59
I'm sorry, what? Hannah?
11:01
What now? Organisms, you mean?
11:02
Oh. Yeah, those two, sorry, all the
11:04
letters are important since we developed into like
11:07
multicellular organisms, Yes, what is that a half a billion
11:10
years ago? I mean, it's been a minute.
11:11
Different amounts for different ones, yeah.
11:13
Totally, totally. I've met some of the ones that
11:16
aren't quite there yet, and yeah, they got a long way to go.
11:18
You better get with a program. The sun's not going to be around
11:21
for that much longer. Play in this.
11:22
Engaging with each other across species has been a thing for
11:26
like half a billion years, however.
11:28
I think most animals are mostly done with their learning when
11:31
they come out of childhood, and that's not true of humans.
11:33
I would hope not. Humans can continue learning for
11:35
their entire life. Animals can too.
11:37
The old sentence can't teach an old dog new tricks.
11:39
Turns out that's completely untrue.
11:41
There is nothing my dog likes more than training sessions
11:43
where you get a new things. Yeah, and get a new snack.
11:45
And gets a new snack that's. True, I'm with you.
11:47
I do the same thing cutting back to humans here for a minute in
11:50
the early years. So the sort of 0 to 3 range, a
11:54
significant portion of your cerebral cortex is wired during
11:58
this time where where you are learning through play.
12:01
And that is that like you get your, your infant kid the little
12:04
container that has the different shapes on it and they put the
12:07
different shapes into the holes that that is a play based
12:10
learning. Not to get all sciency on it,
12:11
but as an even as an adult. You mean to get all sciency on
12:14
it? You don't apologize for getting
12:15
all science. Even as an adult, entertainment
12:17
triggers endorphins and dopamines and things like that
12:19
are necessary to counteract the neurotoxic effects of chronic
12:22
cortisol. Yeah, which is stress.
12:24
But there's this leading theory, yeah, that training for the
12:27
unexpected is what they call the sort of hypothesis where play
12:30
serves to train us as and animals.
12:33
Dry runs. This is dry runs to.
12:34
Cope with unpredictableness, like, like the things that you
12:37
don't know, right? This.
12:38
Yeah, dry run where you go through it and then you're like,
12:40
oh, OK, next time I see this, I can do some pattern recognition
12:42
or at least have walked through it before.
12:44
And you are somewhat trained so that the first time you see it
12:46
isn't the first time you see it. It's why we like horror movies
12:49
or thriller movies, because they allow our amygdala to process
12:52
the threats. Sure, as if at some point that
12:54
might occur. And that benefit seems to
12:55
continue even past childhood. Fiction generally sort of allows
12:58
us to simulate social interactions.
13:00
Yeah, We get to live through a character's drama and refine our
13:03
own theory of mind. We actually get to sometimes
13:06
empathize, thinking that'll never be my life, but I sure
13:08
understand how he got there. Sure.
13:09
And under stimulation of the mind leads to depression.
13:13
Yeah. You are also helping avert
13:14
cognitive decline when you're doing puzzles and things like
13:17
that to stimulate your brain. Keeping your brain and.
13:18
You're under stimulated, you will end up with cognitive
13:21
decline happening earlier than it needs to.
13:23
Totally. You have to work on the
13:24
neuroplasticity of your brain, yes, just like you have to work
13:26
on the muscles that keep your body alive.
13:28
This is also where you see the self handicapping, which I think
13:31
is a great skill to teach kids. Also important for adults to
13:35
remember. One of my favorite subreddits is
13:37
explain it like I'm 5. If you can't distill the thing
13:40
into simple enough terms, then you truly don't understand.
13:43
It your brain needs to know also when you're going through these
13:46
things that you are rehearsing emotional situations or yeah,
13:49
situations where you need to react quickly or things like
13:51
that. It helps that your brain knows
13:53
this is just play. This isn't for real.
13:54
Yes. No one's actually going to get
13:56
hurt here. Yeah.
13:56
So that you can learn to do those things when you're in a
13:58
real situation where you might have real stress.
14:00
There there's also something within this, what I'll call
14:03
group play, right? Not just not just by yourself,
14:05
you get this release of of what they call the bonding hormone or
14:08
I think it's oxytocin. It's like it's that that effect
14:11
that happens when someone like you're all doing the thing in
14:13
the group at the same time. You're cheering for the home
14:16
team, you know, for your local team, the one or you're all
14:18
laughing at the same joke. You get this social scent.
14:22
It's not acceptance. It's like the social bonding
14:24
that you get. Move as a herd.
14:25
Yeah. And that that's your
14:26
entertainment. And yeah, I think that's great.
14:28
I think you also get the things from entertainment that maybe
14:30
aren't as great and how it's used.
14:32
Like you'll get cultural. Yeah, norms, good ones and bad
14:35
ones that that are passed down South.
14:37
Those values, the taboos, yeah. It's through that same sort of
14:40
group herdish mentality where it gets gets pushed down even if
14:43
somebody can't tell you the origins.
14:44
Yeah, I don't know the origins like also everybody else did.
14:46
Same things with mythologies that we passed down.
14:48
And somehow we have this herd thing where you can be a part of
14:51
our herd. Yeah.
14:52
If you believe that the sun is made of cheese.
14:55
Yeah. And if you swear by it.
14:56
Uh huh. And if you believe that, you
14:58
could be a member of the club. Yeah.
14:59
But if you didn't believe it, you couldn't a member of the
15:01
club, which is why I kind of because I didn't believe it, I
15:04
kind of went, yeah, I'm not in this club, I'm going to do it.
15:05
So go do something else. Yeah.
15:07
OK, let's talk about some bizarre way humans have
15:09
entertained themselves over time.
15:10
Yeah, OK, you go first. The one that pops to my mind.
15:12
This isn't that long ago. Emily, the 24/7 Twitch streamer.
15:16
I don't know this one. She's streaming on Twitch 24/7,
15:19
there's nothing entertaining about it, and yet she has a big
15:22
audience of people who pay attention to whatever she's
15:24
streaming who just like. TuneIn, to see what she's doing,
15:26
look it up. Does she shower?
15:27
That's the question I'm really asking.
15:28
Here, just look it up. There are much more interesting
15:30
ways that people have entertained themselves in the
15:32
past, things that we would think are really strange.
15:34
Like in 19th century Britain, there was this thing called
15:36
Egyptomania which hit like this fevered pitch that socialites
15:40
would host private parties. Oh, I know this unroll ancient
15:43
Egyptian mummies. Yeah, guests would gather in
15:45
parlors to watch bandages being removed, hoping to find amulets
15:49
and jewelry, and often ending the night by passing around
15:51
pieces of the very old. Deceased and now we just call it
15:55
Easter. It's the same thing.
15:57
We don't actually have the body there.
15:59
Yeah, it's harder to get bodies, but it's basically the same
16:01
thing. I haven't gone to your Easter
16:02
party. I kind of love this.
16:03
This one came up in my research as well.
16:05
Yeah, this is amazing to me. Right?
16:07
It's just like, it's like a it's like the early version of the
16:10
White Elephant Party, OK? Like everybody just brings like
16:13
a like a wrapped up body and. Everybody bring a body.
16:16
And then you pick one, and then you.
16:17
Tremendous amount of curiosity about human anatomy.
16:21
Yeah. Of course, in the 1700s, there
16:23
were public dissections. Yeah.
16:24
And they were major social events.
16:26
Anatomy Theatre, they called. Theaters what they called.
16:28
It yes they can seat like 1000 people and they sold tickets to
16:31
it so you could watch surgeons work on cadavers.
16:34
The best part about this is the when was this like 17th century,
16:38
18th century, hundreds, 1700s OK 18th century.
16:41
The best part about this was I guarantee you that 18th century
16:44
Live Nation was taken £30 on every single one.
16:48
Still had some fee in there. I would totally go to like an
16:51
anatomy, like that's just amazing.
16:53
That's incredible. In the late 19th century, there
16:55
were X-ray kits, OK, Before we knew of all the problems and all
16:58
this new radiation and all of that.
16:59
Yeah. Yeah.
17:00
We talked to those before they would.
17:01
Yeah. It was a huge fad.
17:02
Yeah. Stores sold home kits so people
17:04
could peek at their bones for fun.
17:05
Totally no I my favorite 1 was like I saw an actual black and
17:09
white reel of someone trying on a pair of shoes and putting them
17:13
under this X-ray kit to just be like oh look at how it fits.
17:16
That was a common way to measure your feet for.
17:17
Shoes and none of those people have legs anymore if there's
17:20
still alive. No.
17:21
OK, here's another one I found that is just amazing to me.
17:24
This is called pelota piri pekka.
17:26
Do you know this? No, I've never even heard these
17:28
words. It loosely.
17:29
Translates into fire hockey and as you know I'm of course a
17:32
hockey fan sure this originated in Mexico, I think I want to say
17:35
like 3000 years ago. It was essentially field hockey,
17:38
but there was an interesting twist They lit the ball on fire
17:41
Oh, that's fun. They used wooden sticks and this
17:43
like wood or leather ball or something was like soaked in
17:46
pine resin like I don't. Fully understand what it was.
17:48
OK, but they would play it at night and light it on fire, so
17:51
they're not. Playing on ice, they're playing
17:53
on some other surface. No, like a field, but still like
17:56
it had a, like a, some sort of symbolic meaning of the, the
18:00
movement of the sun and the stars, right, 'cause 3000 years
18:02
ago, we didn't know how this stuff worked.
18:04
There was no sure. Like it's only really been a
18:06
couple 100 years. We've understood how the bodies
18:08
in space seemed to move. So this was their way of like
18:11
playing a game that I don't say explained, but it's like an
18:14
homage to the sun and the stars. In the 1920s we had endurance
18:17
fads which include flagpole sitting.
18:20
Who can sit on top of the flagpole for the longest time?
18:22
Flagpole sitter. Great song.
18:23
There was also goldfish swallowing.
18:24
How many goldfish can you man swallow?
18:27
Live goldfish at Harvard University.
18:29
I can't imagine the goldfish like that is the the record
18:31
eventually hit 42 goldfish. 42 goldfish.
18:34
That's amazing. That's a lot.
18:35
Of live goldfish. That person had an aquarium in
18:37
their belly for a short time. I mean, I will say this.
18:39
If I was just, let's say some afternoon bored out of my mind
18:43
and I had to choose between the Nathan's hot dog eating
18:46
competition or goldfish log on the ESPN Ocho, I would turn on
18:50
the Ocho because that sounds incredible.
18:52
If it was just like you hold goldfish, here we go.
18:55
You've seen hands on a hard body where the contestants have to
18:58
keep their hands on the truck in order to win the truck.
19:01
The last one who's still touching the truck wins.
19:03
Yeah. And they can't take their hands
19:05
off of the the truck. That just sounds like abuse.
19:07
Does seem like it's a much easier way to buy a truck simply
19:10
by writing a check. It does.
19:11
It is, but you have to keep your hand on the check the entire
19:14
time. There was this time, I think
19:17
this was like mid 1800s, right? Mid mid 19th century.
19:20
So not that, let's call it 200 years ago where British society
19:24
was gripped by this obsessive craze for ferns.
19:27
You know this the Victorian Fern fever.
19:29
Ferns, Ferns the. Know nothing about.
19:31
This as in between two ferns. OK, but this was like the first
19:35
Beanie Baby craze that I could find 'cause I wanted to say
19:38
Beanie Babies, but that's like, I don't know, that was amused.
19:40
I don't know what that was, but this was like the OG Beanie Baby
19:43
craze and it was this is not for like the rich.
19:45
This was all social classes would go scour the countryside,
19:48
climbing over cliffs, ferns to find ferns.
19:51
They try to find like a rare specimen of a Fern and this was
19:55
their social out. What year was this?
19:57
This is like mid 1800s. You go back even farther.
19:59
You go to the Dutch Tulip, but a similar sort of thing.
20:01
Yeah, but what? But I don't think the Tulip boom
20:03
had that could be wrong. But this, this Fern fever was
20:05
one of the few ways at the time that young men and women could,
20:08
quote, mingle in nature without strict supervision.
20:11
Right. And it was under this, like,
20:13
scientific pursuit. That's what caught my attention
20:15
on this. It was like, Oh, no, we're going
20:16
on looking for ferns. And it's like, yeah, yeah, I'm
20:18
pretty sure I know what Bush you're looking for.
20:20
It's not a Fern, but go ahead. You do you.
20:22
So that one caught my eye. And here's what that's more
20:24
current. Like, actually current.
20:26
This one breaks my brain. And you're gonna see this more
20:30
and more pedestrianism. Do you know what that is?
20:32
No, it's competitive walking pedestrian.
20:35
Competitive walking? Oh well, sure, sure.
20:36
What do you mean? Sure.
20:37
I gotcha. I got the idea it's.
20:39
Competitive walking. And if you want to see that in
20:41
the Olympics, each ticket is $4000 exactly, and you don't get
20:44
to know in advance where your seat is the.
20:46
Other one that I thought was odd and this still happens in LA is
20:48
Turtle Racing. Our turtle is a competitive
20:50
species. I don't know them to.
20:51
Be only when the hare is involved.
20:53
When the hare is involved, they get very competitive.
20:55
Ancient Romans used to flood entire coliseums or dig massive
20:58
artificial lakes to stage full scale naval battles.
21:02
These are people who really sure threw a lot of money at
21:04
entertaining themselves, and they'd put real prisoners on
21:07
real ships and really have them fight to the death while
21:10
spectators watched. These are people who really
21:13
cared about entertainment bet in some costly, costly ways.
21:15
So it was. Basically like, like gladiator
21:17
fights, but yeah, in boats. Yeah.
21:19
I love also how you just were nonchalant, like, Oh yeah, the
21:21
Romans were just, you know, flood the Coliseum like it was
21:23
nothing like. 17th and 18th century European aristocrats had
21:27
this thing called fox tossing. That was the other one I found
21:29
that I was like. It made me uncomfortable and
21:31
queasy. Of course, of course.
21:33
It's kind of terrible. Pairs of players would stand
21:35
about 20 feet apart, holding the ends of a long fabric sling.
21:38
Yeah, when a fox or badger ran across the sling, I Why would
21:41
the fox or badger ever come near the sling?
21:43
Sure, but they'd yank it taught launching the animal high into
21:46
the air. The team that tossed their
21:47
animal the highest 1? I don't think the foxes or the
21:50
Badgers probably were having a good time.
21:52
No. As they should have Eel polling.
21:54
Did you read about eel polling? No eel polling. 19th century
21:57
Dutch game where a live eel was hungover a canal and players in
22:01
boats tried to snatch it as they rode underneath.
22:03
Wow. That is, yeah, all of a.
22:05
Sudden I'm thinking, Fortnite's not so bad.
22:07
No, this one's crazy. You have more.
22:09
Oh yeah, turn of the 20th century.
22:10
If you visited Coney Island or the World's Fair, you might pay
22:14
a quartered to see a living premature infant in an
22:17
incubator. Yeah, that.
22:18
Yeah, this is where stuff got dark, because at the.
22:20
Time hospitals didn't provide this text.
22:22
So a doctor named Martin Coney, Yeah, funded the life saving
22:26
care by making babies a sideshow attraction.
22:28
It was a medical entertainment that actually saved thousands of
22:31
lives. Yeah.
22:32
And more amazing, that was a better solution to health care
22:35
than what we have now too. I mean that that is like
22:37
literally the that's the first go fund me for medical care.
22:40
Pretty much sure. It to me it's just it's dark.
22:42
I'm glad it worked in them and hopefully the person got the
22:43
care they he needed, but I was like, that's just, that's just
22:45
terrible. And the morbid curiosity of all
22:47
those people who wanted to see what, hey, let's show me the
22:49
premature in sure any, you know, human oddity that they that they
22:52
would pay for any was a very, very common thing.
22:54
That means some of that still happens, but mostly it's fakery.
22:57
Now. I think that's it, right?
22:58
In the late 1800s, Victorians obsessed over spirit
23:01
photography, headless portraits where photographers use early
23:04
darkroom manipulation to make it look like a person was holding
23:06
their own severed head in a basket or on a platter.
23:09
Wow, early Photoshop. Yeah, early AI sorrow right
23:12
there. What that is?
23:13
That's crazy. Those are great.
23:14
Storm chasing. Now you can hear about storm
23:16
chasing all the time now, people who go and they are actually
23:18
interested in weather and those things.
23:20
John Mirror, the actual famous naturalist, yeah, had a hobby
23:23
where he would, during massive wind storms in the 1870s, he
23:25
would climb to the very top of 100 foot Douglas spruce to ride
23:29
the tree as it whipped back and forth in the Gale, just to
23:32
experience the music of the forest, he said.
23:34
That's amazing. So, Ansel, what do you do in
23:36
your free time? I played backhand.
23:38
Oh, that's interesting. How about you, John?
23:40
What do you do? I ride trees in the wind.
23:43
OK, John, we're going to name betrayal after you is what we're
23:45
going to do. That is insane.
23:47
Usually where there's heavy wind there is also, oh I don't know,
23:50
clouds. And usually where there are
23:52
clouds you may find. Lightnings.
23:53
Sure if you're now at the high spot.
23:55
Like did he hold up his 7 iron just to be sure?
23:57
Like what else did he do while he was up?
24:00
There. So finally, let us move on to
24:01
what we're all kind of concerned about is are we over stimulating
24:04
ourselves, especially with our devices and kids who are have
24:07
their face in their devices all the time.
24:09
Sure, who are doom scrolling? Doesn't have to be kids, adults
24:12
do it. Too, I don't think you can
24:13
really argue a no on on that. I owe very few people are out
24:16
there staring at the sun, right? Not over something else.
24:18
I think that's yes. I think the question is with
24:20
with what? But the problem is you have in
24:23
your pocket, you have this little tiny rectangular,
24:27
sometimes foldable dopamine vending machine.
24:30
It just goes everywhere that you go.
24:32
And to me that that's part of the problem, but also the
24:34
solution is because you have that you also have the solution
24:38
in your pocket. But it's a choice.
24:39
Explain that to me. Explain what you.
24:40
Mean by that? Well, OK, so let's go back to
24:42
pre smartphone. Yeah, you're waiting line at the
24:44
bank or you go to your dentist office and you're there 10
24:47
minutes early and you're waiting to see your like, you can't
24:49
leave. You have to be there.
24:50
You have to be in line or in the waiting.
24:51
Room in life, there's a lot of waiting and the phone, the
24:54
smartphone has pretty much gotten rid of that time so.
24:56
But you have this chunk of time and you had something that you
24:59
could do to fill the time. So in the past, maybe you would
25:02
Daydream, maybe they would have a magazine there that you would
25:05
read. Maybe you brought a book with
25:06
you. Sure.
25:07
But the the point was you, you sort of did this thing that
25:10
wasn't just pounding your brain with, with dopamine.
25:13
Yeah, I would because I didn't really care about celebrities.
25:16
My dentist had old magazines and things like that.
25:18
And so I sure. I don't really care what
25:20
celebrities doing today, let alone what they were doing 20
25:22
years ago. I used to take a paperback book
25:24
and I would RIP out about 20 pages worth of text.
25:27
And then I could, if I was stuck in line at the bank or whatever
25:29
I could, I could read my my book.
25:31
And almost invariably I there was enough waiting and every day
25:34
that I'd get through easily 20 pages.
25:36
Yeah. And then I'd go and grab another
25:37
hunk of the book next time I needed to go, you know, start
25:40
another. Another place where I might have
25:41
to get stuck waiting. OK, first of all, love that you
25:44
were. Literally consuming the book.
25:45
Very logical, Yeah. I love that you didn't have to
25:47
carry the entire book with. You oh, there are people who
25:50
would like to have shot I. I'm uncomfortable just talking
25:53
about this right now. Like I don't I just because I
25:56
view books, all books, as these, like little vessels.
25:59
Of knowledge. Treasures of knowledge.
26:00
But you know what? You can go buy another.
26:01
One I understand copies. That's I didn't.
26:03
I didn't have the only copy. That one still has value, you
26:06
can hand it to someone. This is the thing I dislike
26:08
about reading books on my. But I was also able to get.
26:10
Through I understand. I understand the practicality of
26:13
it and the the logical. This makes perfect sense to me.
26:15
I get all of those things. I didn't have to read the old of
26:18
U.S. magazine or whatever that thing was called.
26:20
I guess though you could have solved this problem is if you
26:22
would just hand your 20 random pages to somebody next to you
26:24
and be like now you read it but they don't get the next 20, it's
26:26
just. Like no sense because they
26:27
advertise previous. Yeah, right.
26:29
But then you insist. I said read it.
26:30
If you ever want to see your children again, you're gonna
26:32
read those 20 pages. But it was a useful way I got
26:34
through a lot of books. No, I understand it's practical.
26:36
I get that. It's just, it just makes me
26:37
uncomfortable, that's all. Can we just agree that makes me
26:39
uncomfortable? I know.
26:40
There's a lot of people who just can't stomach the destruction of
26:42
the book. Yeah, for me it was like, this
26:43
is a especially paperbacks, this is a disposable thing that I can
26:47
consume. But if you weren't thoughtful
26:48
enough to have brought your own book or destructive enough to
26:50
destroy a book and bring part of it, like Jeff, sure you didn't
26:53
have another ready option. You either read the US magazine
26:57
that was on display at your dentist office, yeah, or you
27:00
just, like, stared off into the distance like those were your
27:03
choices. Sure, it was a different animal.
27:04
By the way, that's not necessarily a wasted time
27:06
either, because you you can sort through your inner monologue.
27:08
You can sort through the things you're absolutely unnecessarily.
27:11
Obviously too much of that is not great.
27:13
I'm saying the opposite. A certain amount of it.
27:14
It's useful now. If you go more than three
27:17
seconds without getting punched straight into the dopamine
27:19
receptor, yeah, you, you want to get rid of that.
27:22
You know, we interpret now as dead air and, and you never give
27:24
your, your nervous system a chance to settle down if you're
27:26
just staring at your phone or, or scrolling through the entire
27:29
time looking at something that's good or something that's not.
27:31
The problem is eventually you stop getting the dopamine hits
27:34
from what it whatever it is you're looking.
27:35
At well, your body reacts right? Because you're, you're not.
27:38
We we've evolved in such a state where if you're getting
27:40
constantly inundated with this, you you shut off those
27:43
receptors. Overstimulation leads to and
27:45
hedonia, which is this inability to feel pleasure because you
27:49
have just overwhelmed yourself. Yeah.
27:51
That that constant dopamine stream, your brain now down
27:54
regulates the receptors just to protect itself.
27:56
And then you need even more stimulation to get back to a
27:58
state of normal. And that's why these people
28:00
often find themselves doing this like second screening.
28:03
You know what second screening is?
28:05
I can't believe I have a name. For see a movie twice, no.
28:07
That that's a reasonable explanation.
28:09
You're at a movie, or you're watching a movie at home,
28:12
whatever, it doesn't matter, and you are pulling out your phone
28:14
and scrolling through your phone because that single source of
28:17
entertainment isn't enough. Wow, I'm gonna have you kicked
28:19
out of that theater so fast. I would watch your phone while
28:22
I'm trying to watch a movie. But think about.
28:23
People, they're at their house, right?
28:24
They're like, you're watching the show, not someone the
28:26
commercials are on. I'm talking about during the
28:28
show. Yeah.
28:28
It's just nuts to me to think that someone is.
28:30
You can't even stay focused on this 24 minute show.
28:32
You're now pulling your phone out.
28:34
But I see it. I see it with folks.
28:35
And yeah, that's not good because now you're on this hunt
28:38
for this dopamine. And I see it in my kids too.
28:41
Yeah, some of the shows we don't, they don't watch a lot of
28:43
television. They do do watch some, they
28:45
don't watch a lot and we're very restrictive in what they can and
28:47
can't watch. You would think all kids shows
28:50
fine, right? Maybe they're getting some value
28:51
out of it? Maybe.
28:52
I wouldn't think that. No, no, someone, someone who had
28:54
a kid for sure. They're absolutely.
28:56
Not we have observed and, and I'm not only connected to the
29:00
dots. My, my, my wife was the one that
29:01
connected to the dots. We have certainly observed where
29:04
you'll have a show that the kids will watch in episode or two of
29:07
and then you try to get the break from it, you know, come in
29:09
for lunch or whatever. Yeah, they are a dysregulated
29:12
mess. They've been overstimulated by
29:14
the whatever's going on in the show, sure.
29:15
Like they're absolutely overstimulated.
29:17
Yeah. And that is really tough then.
29:20
And I was like, oh, well, maybe they're just hungry or they're
29:22
tired or, you know, whatever. But no, it's, it's, it's the
29:25
show. It's the way the show was
29:26
constantly giving these little sort of tidbits.
29:28
There are other shows that they watch that we quite enjoy where
29:32
they can just turn it off and it's no problem.
29:34
Blue is a great example. My kids can binge watch Blue.
29:37
They can watch one episode or five, it doesn't matter.
29:39
And when we're like, hey, we got to go transition now they just
29:42
transition. They go on to the next thing.
29:43
It's absolutely fun. So who's responsible?
29:45
Like this is where I get really stuck, 'cause like, they didn't
29:47
put a gun to your head. You could just put it down
29:49
whenever you want, but in some ways what they did was harder to
29:52
defeat than putting a gun to your.
29:53
Head make it harder to put it down.
29:54
It's the nicotine cigarettes story, maybe not a direct
29:58
comparison. I think it's a reasonable
30:00
analogue. Like it's very somewhat like
30:01
you're you're hooked now who am I to say?
30:03
Well, you should just stop. Just stop cold Turkey.
30:05
Some people can. I don't know if some people can.
30:07
Like I think everybody's got free will.
30:09
I think it's the easiest slash hardest thing you're ever gonna
30:11
do. But I think we're all different.
30:12
We are all different for sure, different levels, levels of
30:14
ability to do that. Yeah, but at the end of the day,
30:16
there's not a whole lot in life that you control beyond your own
30:19
actions. Sure.
30:19
How about I get your brains wired?
30:21
Now someone is telling to do something different.
30:22
Well, who better than you to change that?
30:24
I know it's not that easy. Sure, sure.
30:26
If you have that kind of self-control, many of us do you
30:28
and I obviously do. Oh, I don't know.
30:30
I obviously do. I don't know that's.
30:31
The part I didn't know about. All right, we have to get out
30:35
every quickly before we do. Have you seen it read anything
30:38
good this last week? Oh, well, yeah, I mean, of
30:40
course. So this is a this is a show
30:42
about entertainment. This is a show about
30:44
stimulation. And I happen to have what is
30:47
probably the most entertaining thing of not just the year, but
30:52
a longer period of time than this.
30:53
OK, as you know, I'm a big 9 inch Nails fan.
30:56
I have been pretty much my entire life.
30:58
Sure, this last tour that that they did was exceptional.
31:03
Now for the folks that care or that the Fall 9 Nails are no me,
31:07
I saw 9 Inch Nails with David Bowie in Los Angeles, which was
31:09
the best concert I had ever seen and for years was the best thing
31:13
I'd ever seen 'cause they're both iconic and they played
31:15
together and it was amazing. This last tour I think was
31:18
possibly better than that. I'm not oh wow, sure that it
31:21
wasn't, but it was that good. It was definitely up there with
31:23
it. The tour was so good that I saw
31:25
it three times in three different cities.
31:27
Wow. Just to just to consume it the
31:28
exact same show. I just wanted to see it more
31:31
'cause I really enjoyed it and they played Coachella.
31:33
So this is 9 Inch Nails playing with boys noise.
31:36
So 9 Inch Nails is this, you know, industrial alt band, Gen.
31:39
Xers pretty much all know it sort of came up in the early
31:41
90s. So anyway, so 9 she was playing
31:43
with boys noise. Who's this German Iraqi
31:45
electronic producer Alex Riddha. The the collaboration they had
31:48
during the tour was amazing. It was incredible.
31:50
I expected the same thing at Coachella this past weekend.
31:52
I just expected them to take a set out of the show and play
31:55
much of the music. It would just sort of be a
31:57
repeat of that, which was a fantastic experience.
32:00
The lighting was great, the production was great, the video
32:03
was great, everything was fantastic about the tour.
32:06
They did not do that. They took like only two songs
32:09
from the tour. The rest of it is something
32:11
completely original. And amazing.
32:13
So I'm watching this going and by the way, I was planning on
32:15
going to it. My my friends and listeners of
32:18
this show who supposedly know more about music than me and are
32:21
in the industry told me not to go wasn't going to be worth it.
32:24
And I'm text I'm live streaming them during the show and they
32:27
said, Oh yeah, we were wrong. And I was like, what do you mean
32:30
you were wrong? I was going to go long not so
32:31
long. It was incredible.
32:33
The people are saying that it it not only is it the best show, I
32:37
think hands down it was the best performance of the Coachella
32:39
weekend number one. Oh wow, might be the best
32:42
performance of Coachella ever and I've been to a lot of that
32:44
performances there like the one that people comparing it to is
32:47
Daft Punk, which was incredible 20 years ago.
32:50
And I do think this this could certainly be considered better
32:52
amazing The the stage presence was incredible.
32:55
They had a bunch of folks in like like these like Gray
32:57
leotards rolling around sounds super weird, but it fit into the
33:01
show. It was very simple.
33:02
It was very good. It's fantastic.
33:04
Anybody who's a fan of of 90s sort of industrial music or 9
33:08
inch nails or just want to see something super creative.
33:10
I was just going and finding the live stream.
33:12
Oh, he also sang with his wife, which I've never seen him do.
33:14
His wife is Mary Queen Mandig, who's also a singer of her own
33:18
right. I've never seen them perform
33:19
together. And that would like blew my
33:21
mind. It was just incredible.
33:22
And they were just there having the time of their lives.
33:23
So you could just see they were they were loving.
33:25
It's great, really fun. So anyway, the live stream from
33:27
the Sahara 10 Coachella weekend number one recommend you go see
33:29
it and watch it. And if you are super duper
33:31
crazy, you can try to go to weekend 2 with me, which I'm not
33:34
entirely sure I'm going to figure out to do anyway.
33:36
Entertainment 100% through and through Social Bond.
33:38
And we had all the pieces were there.
33:40
My, my amygdala didn't punch anybody in the throat either.
33:43
So it was great. Excellent.
33:44
How about you? Since we're discussing
33:45
entertainment, I thought I'd recommend the 1950s film Sunset
33:48
Blvd. It's more than a movie, it's
33:49
Hollywood's most savage self-portrait.
33:51
Billy Wilder's masterpiece is a gothic noir that treats the
33:54
dream factory like a slaughterhouse.
33:56
It isn't just a fictional story, it's a medic collision of real
33:59
legends playing distorted versions of themselves.
34:01
The legendary Cecil B De Mille appears as himself directing a
34:04
film on the lot, while silent film giant Buster Keaton sits at
34:08
a bridge table as one of Norma's waxworks.
34:10
The forgotten stars of a bygone era.
34:12
Even the Butler Max is played by Erich von Stroheimer, real life
34:15
visionary director whose career was devoured by the studio
34:18
system. This blurring of reality and
34:20
fiction turns the film into a living ghost story.
34:23
It's a haunting reminder that in the world of entertainment,
34:25
today's idol is tomorrow's cautionary tale.
34:28
Hit the space bar Sunset Blvd. on Paramount Plus now.
34:31
I've never seen this film, it's so good and I've heard only
34:34
good. No one has ever said Sunset
34:36
Blvd. or something. Great.
34:37
It is the perfect film about entertaining.
34:39
It really kind of isn't, and it holds up.
34:41
Yeah, 70 years later. Oh yeah, wow.
34:43
OK, I'm gonna have to check that out.
34:45
That is the episode. Thank you for joining us for all
34:47
this nonsense. It's really terrible podcast
34:49
from our awful company. This is on the web at Nonsense
34:51
dot Productions. I'm CJ Little.
34:53
I'm Jeff Parker. If you like this program, please
34:55
follow down and subscribe and like at Apple Podcast, YouTube
34:57
Music, Amazon Music, Antenna Pod, iHeartRadio, Spotify, My
35:00
favorite Overcast wherever may get your podcast.
35:02
From nonsense is produced using the odd door multi track digital
35:05
audio workstation amazing full-featured software open
35:08
source and free. This trick where you can
35:09
understand me talking while music plays underneath is done
35:12
with outdoor. Check it out, we'll be every.
35:13
Tuesday and Thursday mornings, except when the Lakers and
35:16
Dodgers are playing at the same time.
35:17
Then we might show up. Can't be sure I'm.
35:19
So, so sorry. And if and if the Kings are
35:21
playing, we'll definitely be here because nobody wants to see
35:23
them lose in the playoffs. So please join us.
35:37
I'm so sorry once again there will not be an episode on
35:40
Tuesday. I'm going to visit my mother for
35:42
her birthday. She's turning 89.
35:44
She's turning 89. Amazing, right?
35:46
Wow. So she was six years old when
35:48
she had you? Yes, that's it.
35:49
She was six. That is incredible.
35:51
Incredible is exactly the right. Word yeah no Say hi to your mom
35:53
for me. Wow, that sounds creepy when you
35:55
say that.