Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #196: What To Do When CWD Arrives w/ Doug Duren

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #196: What To Do When CWD Arrives w/ Doug Duren · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
0:06
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
0:11
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
0:16
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one and today
0:20
Speaker 1: on the show, we are joined by Doug Dern, a
0:23
Speaker 1: hunter and manager from southwest Wisconsin, and we're discussing the
0:27
Speaker 1: grim reality of c w D arriving on your property
0:32
Speaker 1: and what to do next. All right, folks, welcome to
0:45
Speaker 1: the Wired Hunt Podcast, brought to you by six of
0:48
Speaker 1: Gear and welcome to two thousand eighteen. Um, it's a
0:53
Speaker 1: new year. I'm excited about that, and we have a
0:56
Speaker 1: great guest today, but we have a crappy topic. Um.
1:01
Speaker 1: On the positive side of things, We're gonna be joined
1:03
Speaker 1: here shortly by my friend Doug Durham, and Doug's a
1:07
Speaker 1: serious whitetail hunter. He is a land manager and consultant
1:10
Speaker 1: from the Driftless region of southwestern Wisconsin. UM. You might
1:14
Speaker 1: know him from his appearances on Steve Ronnella's Meat Eater
1:18
Speaker 1: TV show and podcasts, and that's actually how I met Doug.
1:22
Speaker 1: I met him through Steve Um when we all traveled
1:25
Speaker 1: to Alaska together. This past September on that caribou hunt
1:29
Speaker 1: that I've talked about here on the show in the past.
1:32
Speaker 1: UM So that was an awesome trip. Well, definitely have
1:34
Speaker 1: talked to Doug a little bit about that. UM. But
1:37
Speaker 1: Doug takes his management of his family farm in Wisconsin
1:42
Speaker 1: very very seriously. And that's really why I wanted to
1:45
Speaker 1: have him on the show here today, because from a
1:47
Speaker 1: deer hunting standpoint, in a habitat standpoint, UM, he's just
1:51
Speaker 1: super serious about what he's doing on this property. UM.
1:55
Speaker 1: So for that reason alone, I really think Doug would
1:57
Speaker 1: have been a great guest to have on the show
1:58
Speaker 1: just to talk about that. But recent events have made
2:02
Speaker 1: Dougs insights even more important, I think, UM. And that
2:06
Speaker 1: is because just a couple of months ago, Doug got
2:09
Speaker 1: back his first two positive test results for chronic wasting
2:13
Speaker 1: disease on his family farm. And in the weeks since then,
2:17
Speaker 1: Doug has been kind of processing this news and putting
2:20
Speaker 1: together a plan, a new plan for managing this farm
2:23
Speaker 1: and how he's gonna hunt it and all those different
2:25
Speaker 1: things based on the implications of c w D. And
2:29
Speaker 1: I think this is something that unfortunately more and more
2:32
Speaker 1: of us have to think about UM as CWD continues
2:35
Speaker 1: this march across the country, popping up in new places
2:39
Speaker 1: and expanding out from there. UM. So we're gonna be
2:41
Speaker 1: chatting with Doug about his management plan and goals and
2:45
Speaker 1: and what's happening and changing now that the disease has arrived,
2:48
Speaker 1: what he's learned about CWD, and kind of how he
2:51
Speaker 1: thinks he is going to impact his future and and
2:54
Speaker 1: maybe the future for for many others of us who
2:57
Speaker 1: might have the CWD showing up nearby soon. So that's
3:01
Speaker 1: that's kind of the crappy topic that we'll be talking about. It.
3:04
Speaker 1: It's a it's a downer, but I think it's important
3:07
Speaker 1: for us to really wrap our head around this because unfortunately,
3:10
Speaker 1: CWD is becoming a reality and more and more places,
3:13
Speaker 1: and we need to understand what that means. We need
3:15
Speaker 1: to understand what to do about it, how to change
3:17
Speaker 1: our thoughts and hunting tactics and management plans UM. And
3:22
Speaker 1: I think also this will be a great reminder for
3:24
Speaker 1: all of us that if you don't have CWD in
3:26
Speaker 1: your area, we need to follow all the possible best
3:30
Speaker 1: practices and regulations to make sure it doesn't show up
3:33
Speaker 1: in our area. Um So I hate to start off
3:38
Speaker 1: the episode on such a kind of a somber note,
3:42
Speaker 1: but Mr co host Dan, can you can you brighten
3:45
Speaker 1: the mood at all? Do you have anything to share
3:47
Speaker 1: in our little pregame showed him to make us well,
3:50
Speaker 1: thanks for that. How do I how do I follow that?
3:54
Speaker 1: It's like bad news, bad news, bad news, bad news,
3:57
Speaker 1: bad news, and now our co host Dan Johnson and
3:59
Speaker 1: he's not gonna say anything important. So you know, like
4:04
Speaker 1: we we we all count on your Dan to just
4:07
Speaker 1: bring a smile to our faces. Do that? Do that
4:09
Speaker 1: for us at least? Oh my god, that's a lot
4:11
Speaker 1: of pressure, especially after after that that intro. But dude,
4:20
Speaker 1: I don't even don't even I don't even know what
4:24
Speaker 1: to say. You know, I could talk about my kids,
4:26
Speaker 1: but that ship don't matter. Really. I mean, I could
4:28
Speaker 1: talk about my Christmas vacation, that doesn't matter. I could
4:32
Speaker 1: talk about New Year's that doesn't matter. No one cares,
4:37
Speaker 1: fair enough, Do you have any news on the white
4:40
Speaker 1: tail front? Because I know, last time we chaid you
4:43
Speaker 1: were saying that you might have some late season hunts
4:45
Speaker 1: in store. You were doing some scouting I saw on
4:49
Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram or something that you found, like some
4:52
Speaker 1: standing corn and bean field somewhere. Do you have any
4:55
Speaker 1: good news on the late season deer Hunt in front Man,
4:58
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I've I have a big family,
5:01
Speaker 1: right so all so Christmas is go. I have I
5:05
Speaker 1: have a Christmas this upcoming weekend as well, So I
5:08
Speaker 1: just have a bit, you know, a big family, lots
5:11
Speaker 1: of Christmas is, lots of activities that are going on
5:14
Speaker 1: this time of year. I think I got a day
5:16
Speaker 1: or two before the A T A show where I
5:19
Speaker 1: might be able to get out. I found a standing
5:22
Speaker 1: corn field, I found a standing bean field, and I
5:26
Speaker 1: am in a place that like if you were to
5:31
Speaker 1: draw a line between the standing cornfield and the standing
5:35
Speaker 1: bean field, it's probably i'm gonna say a half a
5:37
Speaker 1: mile between the two, but that line does not cross
5:43
Speaker 1: over onto the property that I can hunt. Um, and
5:47
Speaker 1: I'm probably about from the standing corn field would be
5:51
Speaker 1: the closest food source. I'm gonna say I'm probably seventy
5:56
Speaker 1: yards seventy five yards from my the prob pretty line
6:00
Speaker 1: on one to the property line on the other, which
6:03
Speaker 1: really doesn't mean much because I have to I can't
6:06
Speaker 1: hunt on a fence line and shoot onto another person's farm,
6:10
Speaker 1: you know, of property. So I'm even if you put
6:13
Speaker 1: it that way, I'm even further away. Yes there's tracks, Yes,
6:16
Speaker 1: there's well beaten trails. We got the cold tempts, we
6:19
Speaker 1: got the snow, found the food. It's at this point
6:22
Speaker 1: it's just luck if something comes by and um, I
6:26
Speaker 1: don't know, man, and it's just I got. I went
6:30
Speaker 1: out last week put up two trail cameras on what
6:32
Speaker 1: I felt were the best trails leading to this uh
6:37
Speaker 1: food source through my buddy's farm, and I'm gonna go
6:42
Speaker 1: probably check them. I don't know if I'm gonna do
6:44
Speaker 1: it tomorrow or Thursday, but I'm gonna go out check them. Um.
6:49
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, they're a little bit of
6:50
Speaker 1: an invasive check so um, but I think you can
6:54
Speaker 1: get away with it in these temperatures, man. Uh. And
6:58
Speaker 1: I'll see what's on there. If there's nothing on there,
7:00
Speaker 1: my season might be over. Um, unless it's a you know,
7:05
Speaker 1: a mature buck. I feel that. Um. I don't feel
7:09
Speaker 1: like I need to take another dough. My freezers for
7:12
Speaker 1: the most part pretty full. Um. You know, I've already
7:16
Speaker 1: killed a buck this year, so that that checkbox has
7:20
Speaker 1: been kind of done. And I don't know, manu, And
7:23
Speaker 1: it's literally the high today was and I think where
7:27
Speaker 1: I was at was seven degrees and a wind chill
7:32
Speaker 1: of negative twenty. So I was out in it yesterday,
7:37
Speaker 1: not yesterday the day before and it was so cold.
7:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like. My eyelids started to I
7:46
Speaker 1: had to blink more because the fluids on my eyelids
7:49
Speaker 1: were freezing shut. You know, if we're starting to get frozen.
7:51
Speaker 1: So I don't even know if I have the gear,
7:55
Speaker 1: if I were all of my clothes to be get
7:58
Speaker 1: out there and be warm enough for an hour and
8:00
Speaker 1: a half, you know what I mean. Oh, I don't
8:02
Speaker 1: want to hear it. Dan, Hey, shut up, Mr. I
8:06
Speaker 1: hunt from a blind I don't have. I don't have
8:09
Speaker 1: a blind. I had to hunt from a tree stand
8:12
Speaker 1: this week too. I had to sit out in the
8:15
Speaker 1: free and the freezing cold on one of my hunts.
8:17
Speaker 1: But yes, the last two nights I did sit in
8:20
Speaker 1: a blind, which was very nice. I have a heater
8:23
Speaker 1: with you get it? Yes, you did? See? Like just
8:28
Speaker 1: for me to hunt late season, I probably need to
8:30
Speaker 1: invest five Yeah, man, this has been frigid I hear
8:35
Speaker 1: you and that like, um, well, the past week, I've
8:40
Speaker 1: hunted four times, um, three of which were from the
8:43
Speaker 1: box blind, one night was from the tree stand, and
8:46
Speaker 1: that one night from the tree stand. It was it
8:48
Speaker 1: was cold, that's for sure, um. But I did have
8:55
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons to get cold, even on the
8:57
Speaker 1: nights when I was in the box blind, because of
8:59
Speaker 1: the last two nights, so New Year's Eve night and
9:02
Speaker 1: New Year's night, I killed deer. I killed my first
9:06
Speaker 1: two deer of the season and probably my only two
9:09
Speaker 1: deer of the season on the last day of the
9:11
Speaker 1: year and the first day of the new year. Um,
9:14
Speaker 1: So that was good. That was good. But it was
9:17
Speaker 1: like negative seven one night when I was out there
9:19
Speaker 1: gutting the deer. So same thing as you said, like
9:22
Speaker 1: frosticles on my coming out of my nose and eyebrows
9:26
Speaker 1: and everything, and super cold. But you never appreciate the
9:31
Speaker 1: warmth of a deer's innards as much as a night
9:34
Speaker 1: like that. So that was good that we got a
9:38
Speaker 1: couple of You did see a big buck though, right, like,
9:43
Speaker 1: what what was this buck that you saw? How big was? Yes?
9:47
Speaker 1: You know, I think I want to hold off on
9:51
Speaker 1: telling that story too much because on our next episode,
9:55
Speaker 1: I wanted, well, you know, I can, I can, I
9:57
Speaker 1: can touch on this. I want to do a deep
9:59
Speaker 1: dive um next time, like we talked. You know, last
10:02
Speaker 1: time we talked, i'd mentioned that our next episode, I
10:05
Speaker 1: want us to do like a season analysis and walk
10:09
Speaker 1: through everything about the season. So I want to do
10:11
Speaker 1: like a season recap and kind of get people up
10:13
Speaker 1: to speed on how my season ended, where things stand
10:17
Speaker 1: with um, you know, the hunt for holy Field and
10:19
Speaker 1: all those different things. But I don't want to talk
10:21
Speaker 1: about that at all right now because I think that
10:23
Speaker 1: takes a full episode to talk about. But I will say, Um,
10:26
Speaker 1: towards the end of the season, like I said, I've
10:28
Speaker 1: been trying to shoot does. One night I went out
10:31
Speaker 1: with Further um and all Further came out with me
10:35
Speaker 1: and wanted to get him a dough And that night
10:38
Speaker 1: we did see a giant Um. It was the biggest
10:42
Speaker 1: buck I have ever seen in Michigan while hunting. Um. Yeah,
10:47
Speaker 1: and it was just a total bonus buck, a deer
10:50
Speaker 1: I've never seen before, never gotten trail camera pictures of
10:53
Speaker 1: this deer before. Um. Just yeah, like I said, I've
10:57
Speaker 1: never seen a deer like this on this property before
10:59
Speaker 1: so kind of floored me. I couldn't believe it. We
11:01
Speaker 1: were watching some doughs and little bucks come across this
11:03
Speaker 1: opening way on the other side of the property, could
11:05
Speaker 1: see down this power line, and Um, all of a sudden,
11:08
Speaker 1: I had my bine. I was looking at this little
11:10
Speaker 1: six pointer and then I see another deer step in
11:12
Speaker 1: the frame, and it was just like shock, Like I
11:16
Speaker 1: had not seen a deer like this, never would expect
11:18
Speaker 1: to see a deer like this around there. Um. I
11:20
Speaker 1: mean he was I don't know it was quick. I
11:23
Speaker 1: mean I probably could see him watch him for like
11:25
Speaker 1: ten seconds or give or take something like that. Um.
11:30
Speaker 1: But if I had to put money on what I
11:32
Speaker 1: thought he that kind of buck was. I mean he
11:36
Speaker 1: could have been pushing like one sixty classman, definitely one fifties. Um.
11:41
Speaker 1: He looked like that buck I killed a few years
11:42
Speaker 1: ago that I called Glenn down Ohio. That's that's what
11:45
Speaker 1: he looked like. UM. So just not a Michigan deer like,
11:49
Speaker 1: not the kind of deer you see around here. That
11:51
Speaker 1: was really exciting. Um. I went out the next night
11:54
Speaker 1: in the tree stand over in that area where I
11:56
Speaker 1: saw him, did not see him that night. UM checked
11:59
Speaker 1: all my true all cameras, didn't get pictures of him
12:01
Speaker 1: on any of the cameras at all. Um So, seems
12:05
Speaker 1: like he was just kind of passing through, maybe got
12:07
Speaker 1: bumped off of some other property by I don't know,
12:10
Speaker 1: people doing a late season drive for doze or who
12:13
Speaker 1: knows what. But um man would be nice if he's
12:15
Speaker 1: stuck around for next year, but but I don't know.
12:19
Speaker 1: So that was kind of the extent of of my
12:23
Speaker 1: couple most recent nights hunting. Um And we can we
12:27
Speaker 1: can discuss the other interesting next week. Yeah. Um So
12:34
Speaker 1: that said, we do need to wrap up our intro
12:37
Speaker 1: because Doug is expecting us. Um So, are you are
12:41
Speaker 1: you cool with stopping our fun talk of of recent
12:44
Speaker 1: success and start talking about the downer of CWD. Let's
12:47
Speaker 1: do it, all right. We'll take a quick break here
12:50
Speaker 1: to thank our partners at SITKA, and here are Sita
12:54
Speaker 1: Story of the Day. For this week's story, we're joined
12:58
Speaker 1: by Brett Joy, who tells us about a mishap on
13:00
Speaker 1: a recent white tail hunt that still ended with a
13:03
Speaker 1: tag field. One of the funnier occurrences that happened to
13:07
Speaker 1: Ross and I this year was just this last weekend
13:09
Speaker 1: during Ohio Shotgun second shotgun season. Went into a farmer
13:12
Speaker 1: trying to manage some does and get some meat for
13:14
Speaker 1: the freezer. And we're both in the ground line. We
13:17
Speaker 1: weren't filming. We both had muzzle others and we had
13:19
Speaker 1: two doughs come in to range um and we had
13:21
Speaker 1: discussed before and that we're gonna count to three and
13:24
Speaker 1: shoot on four, and we discussed the multiple times. We
13:26
Speaker 1: both were clear on it, and we were set to go.
13:29
Speaker 1: We're gonna double up. And when it came time to shoot,
13:31
Speaker 1: I was having trouble getting on the dough that I
13:33
Speaker 1: was supposed to shoot, just because of the configuration of
13:35
Speaker 1: the windows. I was really strained to get high enough
13:37
Speaker 1: to get that dough in the cross air. When I
13:39
Speaker 1: finally did, I said Rossy Wanner and he said wait, wait,
13:42
Speaker 1: wait wait, and then shortly thereafter I said how you
13:45
Speaker 1: are now? He said, yeah, go ahead, I'm honor, And
13:48
Speaker 1: so that triggered a response in my brain because you know,
13:50
Speaker 1: for years Ross and I've been filming together and that
13:52
Speaker 1: exact exchange exchange happens when we're trying to film a
13:56
Speaker 1: deer and when I'm I'm shooting, he's he's filming, so
13:59
Speaker 1: I immediately shot when he said a honor and he
14:02
Speaker 1: was just like, oh no, what did I do? I
14:03
Speaker 1: totally forgot to plan. I messed him up, screwed him
14:06
Speaker 1: out of the doll and I felt kind of silly
14:08
Speaker 1: for it, but he understood and had a good laugh
14:11
Speaker 1: about it, and we were able to recover the dough
14:14
Speaker 1: that I shot, and I gave him some meat to
14:15
Speaker 1: make up for it. So so that was a pretty interesting,
14:18
Speaker 1: for funny part of our season. On Brett's Hunt, he
14:22
Speaker 1: was wearing sick at Fanatic babes and Selsie's jacket. If
14:26
Speaker 1: you'd like to create a Sikest story of your own,
14:28
Speaker 1: or to learn more about sits technical hunting apparel, visit
14:31
Speaker 1: sitkagear dot com. Alright with us on the show now
14:37
Speaker 1: is my buddy Doug Dern. Welcome to the show. Doug, Hey,
14:42
Speaker 1: that's good to speak with you. At least I haven't
14:45
Speaker 1: got to see it for a while, but yeah, it
14:47
Speaker 1: has been a little while. And last time, last time
14:50
Speaker 1: we were hanging out, it was at the end of
14:53
Speaker 1: what I think for both of us, was one of
14:55
Speaker 1: the coolest experiences of our lives. Would that be true
14:59
Speaker 1: for you, Doug, Yes, it was. It was incredible that
15:05
Speaker 1: that time in Alaska is an incredible experience, and uh, yeah,
15:10
Speaker 1: it was cool to share it with you. Yeah, we
15:13
Speaker 1: me and me and Dan were just kind of lamenting
15:15
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about how the main topic of
15:19
Speaker 1: our episode today is a little bit of a downer
15:20
Speaker 1: and I know you feel that way too as far
15:22
Speaker 1: as the the c w D topic. But but the
15:25
Speaker 1: caribou hunt is a is a no buts about it.
15:28
Speaker 1: Great thing that we can talk about, um, and we
15:31
Speaker 1: haven't got to really rehash any of that stuff. Um.
15:34
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of curious how much that cabra meat?
15:38
Speaker 1: Have you eaten most of it? It seems like it
15:44
Speaker 1: seems like any time anybody comes by, they're like, hey,
15:47
Speaker 1: how's that? What's caribou tastes? Like why do you come
15:51
Speaker 1: by in a couple of days and I'll make some
15:53
Speaker 1: you know, um that people are very curious about it.
15:56
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's uh and it's like gold, you know,
15:59
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's some of the else I wouldn't even
16:03
Speaker 1: say some of the best. It's certainly right at the
16:06
Speaker 1: top of the desk I've ever eaten. Yeah, that that
16:09
Speaker 1: that's kind of like the catch twenty two of like
16:12
Speaker 1: the situation when you when you're lucky enough to go
16:14
Speaker 1: and hunt like that and kill a caribou and bring
16:16
Speaker 1: that meat home. It's great except for just like you said,
16:20
Speaker 1: the novelty of it is that everybody, whenever you have visitors,
16:22
Speaker 1: they all want to try it. And so, like you said,
16:25
Speaker 1: I've gone through so much of mine because the exact
16:27
Speaker 1: same thing. You feel like it's a special event. I
16:29
Speaker 1: really should make some caribou um so I feel like
16:33
Speaker 1: it's gone way too quickly. I always try to like
16:36
Speaker 1: preserve if there's something a little bit unique, like when
16:39
Speaker 1: I've gone elk hunting in the past, when I've killed
16:41
Speaker 1: an elk, or when a buddy is killed an elk,
16:42
Speaker 1: like I hold on to that forever as long as
16:45
Speaker 1: I possibly can. But that just has not happened with
16:47
Speaker 1: the caribou um. So Dan, if you ever go to Alaska,
16:52
Speaker 1: you should keep it a secret from people. Don't tell
16:54
Speaker 1: anyone that you kill the cariboo. Hoard that meat for yourself. Amen. Know,
17:01
Speaker 1: my my niece wasn't really impressed when when they came
17:04
Speaker 1: for Christmas dinner, and I said we were going to
17:06
Speaker 1: have rain gear for She just kind of looked at
17:12
Speaker 1: me like, as her mother said, it's not it's caribly.
17:15
Speaker 1: But I'm like, no species can kind of throw the
17:20
Speaker 1: Santa story for a loop. But well, she's I have
17:28
Speaker 1: to say, uh, people, of the stories that I've told
17:32
Speaker 1: about that Alaska trip, one of my uh favorite is
17:37
Speaker 1: the one where they dropped you and I off. You
17:41
Speaker 1: were already landed on the spot where we were in
17:44
Speaker 1: the camp and there's this little tiny yellow speck down there. Uh,
17:49
Speaker 1: as we're flying over, and I said, hey, what's that
17:51
Speaker 1: twean doing down here? In the pilot goes, that's where
17:53
Speaker 1: we're landing, and uh, he's talking to the to the
17:59
Speaker 1: guy who flew you in as we're circling once twice.
18:03
Speaker 1: In the third time, he goes, well, you know, I've
18:04
Speaker 1: got a lot a lot of extra weight in here.
18:07
Speaker 1: And I took no sense at it. I don't have
18:10
Speaker 1: my fifty pounds of here right referring to me. But
18:15
Speaker 1: then when we hit the ground and the caribou that
18:19
Speaker 1: we had been coming up that grass scattered and we're
18:22
Speaker 1: watching them, and and uh, the two pilots talk to us.
18:25
Speaker 1: So it's just you and I standing all right, pilots
18:28
Speaker 1: talk to us for a couple of minutes, and the
18:30
Speaker 1: guy goes, so, you guys have got your gear and everything, right,
18:32
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna have to stay here tonight,
18:35
Speaker 1: you're all set. And we're both like, uh yeah, okay,
18:40
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll see you a little while and and you're
18:45
Speaker 1: not kind of looking at each other like, well, I
18:48
Speaker 1: hope they come back. How do they figure that we
18:53
Speaker 1: are the two that should be dropped off first? Like
18:55
Speaker 1: what if the rest of the crew for some reason
18:57
Speaker 1: bad weather came in and no one else showed up,
18:59
Speaker 1: Like we're the the the worst prepared to be left
19:02
Speaker 1: out there on our own. Yeah, well I think it
19:06
Speaker 1: had something to do with weight. Mark. Now, I made
19:09
Speaker 1: no bones about it. I was the biggest guy on
19:12
Speaker 1: the of the trip, but unfortunately you were, well or whatever,
19:16
Speaker 1: you were the second biggest guy on the trip, and
19:19
Speaker 1: you're not that big of a guy. But um, I
19:24
Speaker 1: just remember that whole that whole scene of being weighed,
19:27
Speaker 1: and you know that was the whole thing was just that.
19:30
Speaker 1: I mean everything was fun about that trip. There wasn't
19:32
Speaker 1: there wasn't there was no unfun moments. No, no, but
19:36
Speaker 1: you're right. You definitely do have that moment when the
19:39
Speaker 1: two planes pulled away and it's just you and me
19:41
Speaker 1: sitting there a hundred and some miles away from the
19:43
Speaker 1: nearest road. You definitely have one of those moments where
19:47
Speaker 1: you feel rather insignificant in the bigger picture of things,
19:51
Speaker 1: and you realize you're kind of at the mercy of
19:53
Speaker 1: a whole lot of Um, I have a whole lot
19:55
Speaker 1: of mother nature, that's for sure. So you know, man,
19:59
Speaker 1: it was. It was awesome. I was just looking back
20:01
Speaker 1: through pictures and one of those things that I don't
20:05
Speaker 1: think we'll forget, and um, I don't know, do you
20:08
Speaker 1: think you're gonna never go back to Alaska? Done? Well,
20:11
Speaker 1: you said something but when we were maybe when we
20:16
Speaker 1: were doing a second podcast with Steve, or maybe it
20:19
Speaker 1: was just in conversation, and you said something to the
20:22
Speaker 1: effect of, you know, as we were flying out, I
20:25
Speaker 1: was thinking, how am I going to get back here?
20:29
Speaker 1: And I had that same feeling. And as I was
20:32
Speaker 1: going back, I mean, there was this still we still had,
20:36
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of days of the trip to go.
20:38
Speaker 1: As we were flying back to where we uh, where
20:41
Speaker 1: we threw out of um. But at the same time,
20:46
Speaker 1: as the miles went behind me, I was I had
20:48
Speaker 1: that same feeling as how do I get to do
20:50
Speaker 1: this again? Um, I'm gonna sure try. Yeah, man, it's
20:56
Speaker 1: it's a special place. Yeah, yeah, you've got you know.
21:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm twice your age, man, so you've got
21:04
Speaker 1: plenty of time to work in another trip. My clock's well,
21:10
Speaker 1: I hope you're right at least about on my front.
21:12
Speaker 1: Hopefully I've got time to pull it off. I've already
21:14
Speaker 1: been talking to my wife about it, like, we gotta
21:16
Speaker 1: get you up there, we need to do it. And
21:19
Speaker 1: she's like, all right, hold your horses. We're having a
21:21
Speaker 1: baby this year. Chill out. We're not taking a newborn
21:24
Speaker 1: to Alaska. But I'm not. I'd be lying. I'd be
21:26
Speaker 1: lying if I told you I hadn't been thinking, like
21:29
Speaker 1: can I take a six month old to Alaska? Can
21:31
Speaker 1: we pull this off? The answers, yes, Mark, where there's
21:37
Speaker 1: a will, there's a way, right, Yeah, Ronella did it.
21:40
Speaker 1: He took when Jimmy was man, Jimmy was just a
21:44
Speaker 1: little shaver, he was he was well. They went to
21:46
Speaker 1: the Prince Wales Island, but you know that's possible. We
21:51
Speaker 1: can do it. You can do it well, I hope.
21:53
Speaker 1: So I'd like to get him up there soon, that's
21:55
Speaker 1: for sure. It's uh, yeah, it's funny. When we came
22:00
Speaker 1: back from the trip, I think you and me even
22:02
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit, like on the on
22:04
Speaker 1: the flights or back in the airport or something. We
22:07
Speaker 1: were talking about how deer are gonna seem a little
22:09
Speaker 1: bit different after seeing all these caribou and seeing the landscape.
22:14
Speaker 1: We were on, Um, what what was that like for
22:18
Speaker 1: you coming back to hunt white tails again? Because I
22:20
Speaker 1: know for me, I came right back from the Alaska
22:22
Speaker 1: trip and then I was hunting white tails in Montana,
22:25
Speaker 1: and and I wonder if this had any if this
22:29
Speaker 1: had anything to do with why I passed on so
22:31
Speaker 1: many deer. Every buck I saw, I was like, too little,
22:34
Speaker 1: too little, not the deer I'm looking for. And I
22:36
Speaker 1: ended passed on a bunch of bucks that when I
22:37
Speaker 1: went back and I watched the video afterwards, like that
22:39
Speaker 1: was that wasn't a bad deer. I wonder if I
22:42
Speaker 1: was just having looked at so many great, big, giant caribou,
22:45
Speaker 1: everything just looked small in comparison. Um, maybe the Alaska
22:50
Speaker 1: hunt just ruined me for Montana. I don't know, did
22:52
Speaker 1: you have anything like that. Well, I didn't really do
22:58
Speaker 1: any helping again until um, other than a little small
23:01
Speaker 1: game hunting, I didn't really do any deer hunting until November,
23:06
Speaker 1: so I had a little time to come down from it,
23:08
Speaker 1: I guess. But um, yeah, I still have dreams of
23:12
Speaker 1: those uh those antlers compared to the size of the animal.
23:16
Speaker 1: And for sure, you know, looking at trail camera pictures
23:19
Speaker 1: and things like that, you know, comparatively, it had had
23:24
Speaker 1: a little bit of an effect on how I how
23:27
Speaker 1: I viewed the bucks that we had on camera, and
23:30
Speaker 1: we had some nice ones, you know, so uh yeah, No,
23:34
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't well, as we'll get into, I
23:38
Speaker 1: didn't do any passing of any of any year this year.
23:42
Speaker 1: So um, but yeah, I definitely had an effect on
23:46
Speaker 1: me as a hunter. Um. I just feel so incredibly
23:50
Speaker 1: fortunate to have had that experience. And it's hard to
23:54
Speaker 1: describe the people. I mean, you and I have both
23:58
Speaker 1: attempted it. I'm sure of that experience of seeing that
24:01
Speaker 1: many animals over that much terrain in that shorter period
24:08
Speaker 1: of time. Yet it was still. Um. I mean, it
24:12
Speaker 1: wasn't it was a foregone conclusion. Wasn't that mark that
24:14
Speaker 1: we were going to shoot? And now a big ball? Um?
24:18
Speaker 1: But it really became a question of which one, what's
24:21
Speaker 1: the experience and all those things that that happened, and
24:26
Speaker 1: I really tried to absorb it. So it definitely has
24:30
Speaker 1: had an effect on me. That was the weird thing
24:33
Speaker 1: about that hunt, because, like you said, and like we
24:35
Speaker 1: talked about, I think on on Steve's podcast at one point,
24:38
Speaker 1: it was a really unique experience in that, you know,
24:41
Speaker 1: barring some kind of disaster, it definitely seemed like we
24:45
Speaker 1: would be able to to to kill a caribou. It
24:48
Speaker 1: wasn't like there was any shortage of of animals out there.
24:52
Speaker 1: So we did just spend an enormous amount of time.
24:55
Speaker 1: You know, Steve kept referring to this as mental masturbation,
25:00
Speaker 1: and we're just looking at and like looking at these
25:02
Speaker 1: animals and say, Okay, which one do we want to
25:04
Speaker 1: go after? Is this one? This one? Or what kind
25:06
Speaker 1: of hunt do we want? You know, sometimes like we
25:08
Speaker 1: weren't going to go for this one because it was
25:10
Speaker 1: just too easy. It was just too close. So we
25:11
Speaker 1: almost tried to find that he just got up and
25:17
Speaker 1: walked away from you know, he wasn't even gonner. It
25:21
Speaker 1: was a heck of a nice boy walking up. It's
25:24
Speaker 1: gonna be right up here on top, carry it down
25:26
Speaker 1: to camp. And he's like, you don't want tap one
25:29
Speaker 1: over here. I tried to put you on a death
25:32
Speaker 1: march there across to the other side of the bowl. Yeah. Yeah,
25:37
Speaker 1: my mom didn't raise any idiots. Mark, I could see that.
25:40
Speaker 1: I want to. I wanted you gonna be able to
25:43
Speaker 1: keep up with you guys when you when you took off,
25:45
Speaker 1: and I had talked to them about it and said, yeah,
25:48
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm the
25:51
Speaker 1: I'm the weak link of this change. So these guys
25:53
Speaker 1: go on ahead there, We'll watch him over here. He's like, yeah,
25:57
Speaker 1: and somebody better stay with him for see. Yeah, he
26:02
Speaker 1: had a very convenient choice there for him. Yeah, that
26:07
Speaker 1: that did end up being the death march of the
26:09
Speaker 1: trip to that was coming back up that final hill
26:12
Speaker 1: with a quarter from Steve's bowl and then that big
26:15
Speaker 1: moose shed I was I was hurting on that one.
26:18
Speaker 1: So you guys, and you especially because those guys do that,
26:23
Speaker 1: I mean, they take off and then you know they're
26:26
Speaker 1: always doing it. And you know, I mean, I wasn't
26:29
Speaker 1: completely sure you're back around and anything when it came
26:32
Speaker 1: to that kind of hiking, but he came back and
26:35
Speaker 1: he looked like a better man for it. Yeah, it
26:40
Speaker 1: was good. It was a good push, that's for sure.
26:42
Speaker 1: One of these days, Dan, you gotta you gotta get
26:45
Speaker 1: up there and make a trip like that happen for
26:47
Speaker 1: you too, buddy, dude, It's a dream. Yeah. Well, if
26:51
Speaker 1: you ever need any um, not that's gonna be you.
26:58
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you ever need um, if
27:00
Speaker 1: you ever need some not terribly helpful but maybe slightly
27:03
Speaker 1: inspirational advice, me and me and Doug might will help
27:05
Speaker 1: you with that. Gotcha, gotcha? It was good. It was good.
27:12
Speaker 1: So you you alluded to this, Doug, um, and we
27:16
Speaker 1: have kind of worked our way up to this in
27:19
Speaker 1: our introduction before you joined us though. But but you
27:22
Speaker 1: had a weird year this year when it came to
27:24
Speaker 1: your white tail hunting when you got back to Wisconsin,
27:28
Speaker 1: and uh, and that's what I really want to spend
27:30
Speaker 1: most of our time talking about here. Um. So before
27:33
Speaker 1: we get to this season, though, Doug can you help
27:37
Speaker 1: us understand a little bit of your history and the
27:41
Speaker 1: history of of your family farm where you're hunting and
27:44
Speaker 1: management has been going on. What's the story of the
27:47
Speaker 1: Doug Durn family farm there in Wisconsin. What you guys
27:50
Speaker 1: have been doing to this point, Well, you know the
27:56
Speaker 1: I think it's important to note that family, my families
28:00
Speaker 1: on this farm for over a hundred years, and it's
28:03
Speaker 1: been past generation to generation generally with one of the uh,
28:08
Speaker 1: well not generally. My great grandfather bought it and my
28:12
Speaker 1: grandfather bought it my great grandfather, my dad bought it
28:14
Speaker 1: from my grandfather, and in this generation, um, it wasn't
28:20
Speaker 1: necessary for the farm to be purchased by one of us.
28:23
Speaker 1: So all of my siblings and I are partners in it.
28:27
Speaker 1: I mean, it's our inheritance, for lack of a better word, um.
28:33
Speaker 1: And for the last um about twenty five years, we've
28:38
Speaker 1: been very interested in dear management on a couple of
28:43
Speaker 1: different levels. First, from the conservation standpoint, we have a
28:47
Speaker 1: high deer population, and my family has been in the
28:53
Speaker 1: lumber of business. I'm not in a lumber of business,
28:56
Speaker 1: but my great grandfather, grandfather and my dad early on
29:01
Speaker 1: was very into forestry and logging and stuff out, which
29:05
Speaker 1: we're doing on the farm as well. But uh part
29:10
Speaker 1: of that was ongoing management or woodlands. And one thing
29:16
Speaker 1: that we learned in the eighties, in the late eighties
29:19
Speaker 1: and early nineties when we started putting land in the
29:21
Speaker 1: CRP and planting two trees. If you plant a row
29:24
Speaker 1: of white pines and then a plant grow of red oaks,
29:28
Speaker 1: and then a plant roll of white pines, you're gonna
29:31
Speaker 1: end up and do that over acres or something then
29:35
Speaker 1: end up developing some really nice habitat for deer uh
29:39
Speaker 1: in the in those white pines and the red oaks
29:41
Speaker 1: are gonna be like little pobstacles for them to eat
29:44
Speaker 1: during the wintertime as they walked down and eat themselves.
29:47
Speaker 1: Uh you know, such a great food source the brows
29:50
Speaker 1: of the red oaks. So there's been sort of these
29:54
Speaker 1: two uh ways that we were going forward in management
29:59
Speaker 1: m a whole bunch of years ago. My about that
30:04
Speaker 1: about five years because I said, my my younger brother,
30:07
Speaker 1: who's uh, who died in a car accident, and uh
30:10
Speaker 1: about twenty two years ago. Um was a bull hunter,
30:14
Speaker 1: and he had this great saying, Uh, no matter what
30:18
Speaker 1: kind of buck he killed UM, he'd always say that
30:20
Speaker 1: that had been a nice buck next year. And so
30:23
Speaker 1: that kind of became our mantra of of wanting to
30:27
Speaker 1: kill bigger deer and are bigger bucks and and you know,
30:30
Speaker 1: we're taking on the quality deer management principles and but
30:34
Speaker 1: at the same time still quality hunting meant UM didn't
30:38
Speaker 1: always matter that it was a big buck. It was
30:40
Speaker 1: you know, the experience of the hunt that you had
30:43
Speaker 1: UM and uh, you know, there were a couple of
30:47
Speaker 1: devid instances of smaller bucks that were shot that that
30:50
Speaker 1: was a great experience for either the hunter like a
30:53
Speaker 1: new hunter or a guest or or we had just
30:57
Speaker 1: worked all day to get one deer and and it
31:00
Speaker 1: happened to be a smaller buck. But by and large,
31:02
Speaker 1: what we were trying to do was to adhere to
31:05
Speaker 1: most of the quality deer management principles of you know,
31:10
Speaker 1: population control, h good age structure. And we did it.
31:17
Speaker 1: I mean, UM after brilliant since two thousand, two thousand
31:23
Speaker 1: and one, the we went from basket racks to um
31:30
Speaker 1: you know, undred thirty five, hundred forty five and the
31:35
Speaker 1: biggest one we've we've taken is a hundred eight seven inches. Um.
31:39
Speaker 1: The biggest one this year was a four year old
31:42
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, measured a hundred and fifty five UM.
31:46
Speaker 1: And uh, I guess it's important to say that predominantly
31:49
Speaker 1: gun hunters were. Man, it's just we're farmers, and you know,
31:53
Speaker 1: farmers don't generally have time to go hunt, and so
31:58
Speaker 1: at least in my family, we're gun hunting. Is where
32:01
Speaker 1: we were doing most of our hunting. And there's except
32:04
Speaker 1: for my brother, um, because we were farming anymore. And
32:07
Speaker 1: by the time he was around with most of the
32:10
Speaker 1: lands and crp um. So ah, we really developed that
32:17
Speaker 1: and we just had these anecdotal situations where a neighbor
32:21
Speaker 1: got egg nuisance tags and he shot truckload or two
32:26
Speaker 1: of antler this year one year, and all of a sudden, uh,
32:30
Speaker 1: that combined with the letting him go, letting him grow
32:33
Speaker 1: mentality that we had, um, we started shooting those those
32:37
Speaker 1: bigger class bucks, top row bucks we call them. And uh,
32:41
Speaker 1: but you know, at the same time, we're not we're
32:43
Speaker 1: not like completely obsessed with it. Um. You know a hundred.
32:50
Speaker 1: We started out with the idea of the mixture in
32:52
Speaker 1: the next buck is bigger than the last one, that shot. Well,
32:55
Speaker 1: then I shot that one was a hundred eighty seven inches,
32:57
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, we got to kind of rethink
32:58
Speaker 1: that because because, as one guy said it, you might
33:02
Speaker 1: as well show me your view, rightful, if that's such
33:04
Speaker 1: it did do um so and true enough, we've not
33:10
Speaker 1: killed them bigger than that on the farm. But in
33:12
Speaker 1: the five year period of time after that, that was
33:16
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, in the next five years,
33:18
Speaker 1: there were five bucks bigger than that one shot within
33:21
Speaker 1: about a mile and a half radius of our farm.
33:25
Speaker 1: So yeah, so other people were practicing it as well. Um,
33:29
Speaker 1: at least letting the deer go um, you know, the
33:32
Speaker 1: smaller bucks go. Um. That the hurdle that we've had
33:37
Speaker 1: with management on our place, and I think in in
33:39
Speaker 1: the area is um population control. I'm sixty years old
33:47
Speaker 1: or going to be sixty years old, and um, a
33:50
Speaker 1: lot of fellas from my generation, just as one guy said,
33:55
Speaker 1: I'm fundamentally opposed to shooting those and uh, you know
34:01
Speaker 1: that's that can be a hard hard thing to cross.
34:04
Speaker 1: UM hard bridge to get people to cross. And we
34:08
Speaker 1: have some you know, there's some properties in the area
34:11
Speaker 1: that you know, they're sanctuaries for deer um not because
34:14
Speaker 1: they don't get hunted, but because they don't shoot um
34:18
Speaker 1: dose on them, or they won't go out there, or
34:20
Speaker 1: they won't allow someone else to shoot those or um
34:24
Speaker 1: like we just had yesterday with the last day of
34:26
Speaker 1: our late season and on the only holiday hunt with
34:28
Speaker 1: rifle and UM properties that I was taking pictures of
34:33
Speaker 1: thirty and forty gear on as I just took a drive.
34:36
Speaker 1: Nobody hunting them and no one allowed to hunt them.
34:38
Speaker 1: So you know, that's kind of tough. Uh So our
34:44
Speaker 1: management strategy to do was to do that, and we
34:46
Speaker 1: were uh was to you know, keep a balanced turn
34:51
Speaker 1: both for the gear perspective and what we were trying
34:53
Speaker 1: to do with our timber um and uh you know,
34:59
Speaker 1: and set the size of the bucks that we were
35:02
Speaker 1: getting in, you know, and on average we were we
35:04
Speaker 1: were doing that and there were years and sometimes you
35:06
Speaker 1: have to accept you're not going to kill We're not
35:08
Speaker 1: going to kill a buck this year. We're not going
35:09
Speaker 1: to kill a big buck this year, um so, and
35:14
Speaker 1: and everybody hunting with us, family and friends who gun
35:17
Speaker 1: hunted all, you know, accepted that. Um that's been that
35:21
Speaker 1: had been the unknown for quite a while. And you know. Uh,
35:24
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, c w D was discovered south
35:27
Speaker 1: of US about seventy five miles on the other side
35:29
Speaker 1: of the Wisconsin River. Um. Funny thing, dear across that river. Um,
35:35
Speaker 1: and it really uh it's taken fifteen years. But this
35:40
Speaker 1: year we had our first two positive uh deer, both bucks.
35:46
Speaker 1: When it was a three and a half year old,
35:47
Speaker 1: when it was a two and a half year old.
35:49
Speaker 1: And you know, we've killed. I killed the two and
35:53
Speaker 1: a half year old three years ago that came in. Weeded,
35:57
Speaker 1: and we tracked him down and and I shot him
35:59
Speaker 1: and hundred three inches a two and a half year
36:02
Speaker 1: old buck. Second brack. I mean it's system death. So
36:06
Speaker 1: when I say a two year old was you know,
36:09
Speaker 1: sometimes people think, well it's a fairly small deer. Well know,
36:11
Speaker 1: I mean that that ches is very possible. Um so
36:20
Speaker 1: and a lot of those deer got shot to you know,
36:23
Speaker 1: folks were shooting them. Um because still it's in it's
36:28
Speaker 1: a quote unquote trophy or I get my book. That's
36:31
Speaker 1: what I'm most concerned about. UM. I would say that
36:34
Speaker 1: by and large in our areas, people were passing up
36:37
Speaker 1: those little forkings and all of that. I don't. I
36:39
Speaker 1: know very few people who were doing that. But so
36:44
Speaker 1: cd w D happens and we start paying attention to that,
36:47
Speaker 1: and it was a uh, it was a pretty scary thing,
36:50
Speaker 1: but there were some great benefits to it also in
36:54
Speaker 1: that for hunting anyway, in that UM again predominantly gun hunters. UM,
37:00
Speaker 1: they expanded the seasons for us we had. They started
37:03
Speaker 1: to earn a book, which I'm in favor of. I mean,
37:06
Speaker 1: I think we need to tweak the system that we had,
37:08
Speaker 1: but I should like to see it in me and
37:09
Speaker 1: stated and we can talk about that. After a while,
37:12
Speaker 1: earn a buck all of a sudden started helping. They're
37:17
Speaker 1: being helping. There be bigger bucks as well, because you know,
37:20
Speaker 1: I might shoot a doll or a half to shoot
37:21
Speaker 1: a doll as if they said I don't want to
37:22
Speaker 1: have to shoot, but they would shoot a doll and
37:25
Speaker 1: and uh and then maybe they would shoot a buck
37:27
Speaker 1: or that you know, a buck escaped. As a result, UM,
37:31
Speaker 1: we saw increase in the area, UM in the size
37:34
Speaker 1: of the box, the average side of the box. From
37:36
Speaker 1: that as well, UM, we started to have a these
37:41
Speaker 1: early UM seasons. So you know the year that I
37:47
Speaker 1: shot this year that we call the standard this hundred
37:49
Speaker 1: in the eighty seven inch. I shot him in Halloween
37:50
Speaker 1: out of a bowstand with a rifle. I mean, you know,
37:55
Speaker 1: I had a buck tag I hunted this year. I
37:58
Speaker 1: had him figured out anywhere in is going to do
38:00
Speaker 1: and he walked up out of there and I shot
38:02
Speaker 1: him at thirty yards or thirty at six. You know,
38:04
Speaker 1: he wasn't wasn't going to get away. UM. So that
38:08
Speaker 1: kind of hunting opportunity with a gun increase, UM. And
38:12
Speaker 1: you know, we enjoyed that quite a bit. And you
38:14
Speaker 1: can make make that all of a sudden that became
38:16
Speaker 1: kind of a new tradition for us. And now as
38:19
Speaker 1: the ant of this holiday hunt has has become that
38:23
Speaker 1: as ball expanded hunting opportunities, Um, a lot of traditionalists
38:28
Speaker 1: didn't like that. Bull hunters didn't like that. A lot
38:31
Speaker 1: of bull hunters didn't like coni. You say, all Um,
38:35
Speaker 1: and I understand those parts of the argument. But the
38:39
Speaker 1: whole idea was that we were hopefully going to be
38:40
Speaker 1: reducing heard populations slow dispresident disease. And U quickly quickly
38:47
Speaker 1: here um started to interject, Um, but can you can
38:50
Speaker 1: you expand on that element of you know when CTBT
38:55
Speaker 1: was discovered in Wisconsin. Can you elaborate on what we're
38:58
Speaker 1: all the proposed chain just so you just mentioned a
39:00
Speaker 1: couple of them, but can you elaborate like what all
39:02
Speaker 1: happened at that point, what changed and how did how
39:05
Speaker 1: did hunters take that, because it sounds like from your
39:08
Speaker 1: standpoint there were some benefits to the quality of hunting maybe, um,
39:12
Speaker 1: but I feel like from a lot of the things
39:13
Speaker 1: I've heard when I was following this from Afar, there
39:16
Speaker 1: was quite a bit of controversy around, you know, some
39:19
Speaker 1: of these different changes that were enacted post initial discovery
39:23
Speaker 1: of CTB, because it really was kind of a sky
39:26
Speaker 1: falling down mentality right after CWT was discovered there in Wisconsin.
39:30
Speaker 1: Seemed like is that right? Is that accurate? Yeah, You're
39:35
Speaker 1: exactly right. There was very much Uh, sky is falling.
39:39
Speaker 1: What I've come I would use using that analogy now
39:43
Speaker 1: it's so, yeah, the sky is still falling, but it's
39:45
Speaker 1: just falling really slowly. It's not all coming down at once.
39:49
Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. Um. Uh. The Department Natural Resources
39:57
Speaker 1: established a CWD erratic Asian zone in the in the
40:02
Speaker 1: hot area where it was discovered, and that meant what
40:06
Speaker 1: they thought the um prescription should be is to eradicate
40:12
Speaker 1: all of the deer in that area and hopefully stop
40:17
Speaker 1: the disease from spreading. Well Mark, if I was my
40:23
Speaker 1: farm was in the middle of that eradication zone, and
40:25
Speaker 1: they said, we're going to shoot all the there in
40:27
Speaker 1: your property, and we have all these different techniques to
40:29
Speaker 1: do that. I you know, it would have better in
40:33
Speaker 1: our self for me as well. Um So, there was
40:36
Speaker 1: some real hot heavy, some real difficult public relations things there.
40:42
Speaker 1: But what they did they did then do was to
40:45
Speaker 1: establish a uh CWD management zone and that's what we
40:50
Speaker 1: were in. In fact, we were on the northernmost edge
40:52
Speaker 1: of it, seventy miles away from the hot zone. Um
40:57
Speaker 1: and uh so what they did was expanded hunting opportunities
41:02
Speaker 1: for gun hunters in that because you know, you mad.
41:08
Speaker 1: You know that I made comments that you may remember,
41:10
Speaker 1: I'd made some comments about bow hunters being folks who
41:13
Speaker 1: don't have enough to do. Um. Uh but I'm trying
41:22
Speaker 1: to trying to become one of those guys. Um But
41:25
Speaker 1: um but I mean, let's face it, if you want
41:29
Speaker 1: to if you want to knock your population back, you
41:32
Speaker 1: do that with rightfuls a shotguns. You're not going to
41:35
Speaker 1: do it with archery. Um and uh. So that area
41:41
Speaker 1: had a lot of bigger properties and and you know,
41:45
Speaker 1: I know some of those folks that they were doing
41:46
Speaker 1: quality der management and they were way into archery and
41:49
Speaker 1: doing good management with their guns and and uh, you
41:53
Speaker 1: know all of that. And you know it's just a
41:58
Speaker 1: tough down told to swallow. But on before the rest
42:01
Speaker 1: of us out in the in the CWD management zone. Um,
42:06
Speaker 1: it did expand these opportunities. Some might say to the
42:11
Speaker 1: you know, you know too far. Um, I mean shooting
42:15
Speaker 1: a deer with a rifle on October one. Um, well,
42:20
Speaker 1: I thought it was great at the time. I mean
42:22
Speaker 1: I understand the objection to that from from the bull
42:25
Speaker 1: hunting perspective, especially when you've got a bunch of gun
42:30
Speaker 1: hunters going in the woods during the beginning of the
42:32
Speaker 1: heatd or right and all of that. Um and and
42:36
Speaker 1: so there were things that were really mishandled. The message
42:40
Speaker 1: was uh, the idea was correct, The message was needed
42:45
Speaker 1: some tweaking, I guess would be the best way of
42:47
Speaker 1: putting it. And I can, of course, in retrospect everything
42:50
Speaker 1: makes a lot more sense. Um. But we started looking
42:53
Speaker 1: at do differently than UM. The testing. Uh, there was
42:58
Speaker 1: a lot of testing down in that area, and then
43:01
Speaker 1: they were starting to expand it out a little bit.
43:03
Speaker 1: We didn't really start testing here at all until about
43:07
Speaker 1: uh eight or nine years ago, and then they only
43:12
Speaker 1: wanted you to test adult here, um and adult books especially.
43:18
Speaker 1: And when they say an adult book, it's the classical
43:21
Speaker 1: meaning of one with handlers, um and so um. So
43:26
Speaker 1: we started to do that, but it was controversial marketing,
43:30
Speaker 1: and I think rightly so. Um, there's a lot of uh,
43:34
Speaker 1: a lot of unknowns. There's still are a lot of unknowns.
43:37
Speaker 1: There's a hell of a lot more knowns now. Um
43:40
Speaker 1: in terms of how the disease spreads, Um, you know
43:44
Speaker 1: who's spreading it, what we can do to slow or
43:47
Speaker 1: control that. But eradication that's a pretty tough one, you know.
43:53
Speaker 1: As I mentioned Brian Richards, CWD expert, that that Steve
43:56
Speaker 1: had on the podcast on the media podcast UM hunted
44:01
Speaker 1: with me on Friday, and uh, actually before I hunted
44:06
Speaker 1: with him, I wanted to re listen to that podcast
44:09
Speaker 1: and and you know I used his expression in that
44:12
Speaker 1: piece that I wrote about taking the gloves off and
44:16
Speaker 1: what I meant by taking the gloves off. Was you know,
44:19
Speaker 1: we're not gonna I'm not judging anybody about shooting an
44:21
Speaker 1: antler buck anywhere, and we are. In the last two
44:24
Speaker 1: years we've been shooting antler list dear um. And it
44:28
Speaker 1: used to be pretty shameful to shoot and not be
44:30
Speaker 1: bucked that you had to wait. But suddenly we're not
44:34
Speaker 1: shooting antler and list dear because we're looking at them,
44:36
Speaker 1: whether they're numbing bucks or not. And um. But when
44:41
Speaker 1: Brian said, you know, gloves off, I think it was
44:43
Speaker 1: in the Finland where a carible herd um had seen
44:50
Speaker 1: that he was discovered in the caribou herd and the
44:54
Speaker 1: fins that's the correct word for someone continueent went in
44:58
Speaker 1: and their plan is to kill every year and that
45:01
Speaker 1: hurt or every terrible in that herd. That's serious gloves off.
45:06
Speaker 1: But it's different, of course because carib it was a
45:08
Speaker 1: herd animal. It's different than gear who travel in the
45:11
Speaker 1: ways that they do. And um, but it's been CEP
45:17
Speaker 1: has been on the mine for fifteen years. There's there's
45:20
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it. And it has there's been
45:23
Speaker 1: some ebb and flow. Um, we can we continue to
45:27
Speaker 1: do buck management up until two years ago, with the
45:33
Speaker 1: exceptions that I've talked about new hunters. You know, until
45:37
Speaker 1: you get some bucks under your belt, you can shoot
45:39
Speaker 1: what you'd like. But um, from the older hunters, our
45:43
Speaker 1: idea was that even though arn a buck was legally
45:46
Speaker 1: not a law anymoren't we I wanted my experienced hunters
45:50
Speaker 1: to shoot a doe or two before they shot a buck,
45:53
Speaker 1: or if they shot a buck, um, because I have
45:57
Speaker 1: to pass up a nice bucket if you saw it, Um, Um,
46:03
Speaker 1: and and and and the new hunters were just folks
46:07
Speaker 1: like Joe Rogan and Bryan Callen who came in, or
46:10
Speaker 1: Britney and Helen and came and hunter with Steve. That
46:13
Speaker 1: exception was for um and my nephews, and and and
46:18
Speaker 1: the new hunters who were friends also. And so you know,
46:23
Speaker 1: I guess my point is, so we didn't have that
46:24
Speaker 1: real rigid if he's got to be a three and
46:27
Speaker 1: a half year older, it's got to have this many
46:29
Speaker 1: points or whatever. We didn't really have that real rigid control.
46:33
Speaker 1: But we kept doing that kind of thing until uh
46:37
Speaker 1: really uh this year to two questions then, Um, First,
46:45
Speaker 1: what the heck was it like hunting with Joe Rogan
46:48
Speaker 1: and Brian Callen. Did you guys actually do any real
46:51
Speaker 1: hunting or is it just laughing the whole time? Well,
46:54
Speaker 1: I'm telling you what, man, one of those guys left
46:58
Speaker 1: my face hurt and my stomach hurt. Um. Well, and
47:04
Speaker 1: as you know, Joe has become a quite an accomplished
47:09
Speaker 1: uh archer and uh man practiced an incredible amount. And
47:16
Speaker 1: uh so he got into hunting, you know, hook line
47:19
Speaker 1: and center in mixed metaphor. But um so, but he
47:26
Speaker 1: got into it, you know, deep, and he he had
47:28
Speaker 1: his own rifle, he'd been to the range all of that.
47:31
Speaker 1: It was after that that he got into the archer
47:34
Speaker 1: um Kallen. Uh uh, I mean I love the guy,
47:45
Speaker 1: I really do. I was skeptical with Steve, asked me
47:48
Speaker 1: about it. But now you know, Steve, he's not gonna
47:51
Speaker 1: bring a couple of lunatics to the to the to
47:54
Speaker 1: the farm that they're going to be dangerous on the
47:57
Speaker 1: safe And I knew that was going to be the
47:58
Speaker 1: case with Rogan because how into it he was, whereas
48:03
Speaker 1: Callen is uh Joe's buddy going along. Now, So Joe
48:07
Speaker 1: was learning educating himself about it, and Callen was just
48:09
Speaker 1: showing up and going, do you think this cashmere sweater
48:12
Speaker 1: looks good on me? Um? And Uh. But oddly enough
48:18
Speaker 1: I took I took Brian out and uh and Joe
48:22
Speaker 1: Steves took Joe so and I was one of those
48:26
Speaker 1: really miserable cold opening days. And at one point I
48:30
Speaker 1: looked over at Brian and I said, I'm going to
48:32
Speaker 1: tell you it's nothing. Man. If it wasn't for us filming,
48:37
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be sitting here. I need to be back
48:39
Speaker 1: in or I'd be I'd be still hunting. And much
48:42
Speaker 1: as we call it. And Uh, I'll tell you that
48:46
Speaker 1: guy was. He was rock solid in the in the
48:49
Speaker 1: in the blind as far as understood. Listening to me,
48:53
Speaker 1: I was a little concerned. Um. I didn't give him
48:56
Speaker 1: any bullets until we actually saw a deer. Um because
49:01
Speaker 1: he you know the rules, you're not going to chamber
49:03
Speaker 1: around until you have a target. And I didn't grow
49:05
Speaker 1: up that way. He got a round in his chamber
49:07
Speaker 1: and he's got the gun on safety. But the producer
49:11
Speaker 1: the first time we did, UH need eater sdand doughty,
49:15
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you know, we don't chamber around
49:17
Speaker 1: until we have a target. I'm like, okay. And then
49:20
Speaker 1: with cal And, he said, and uh, you might want
49:23
Speaker 1: to hold on to his clip, but until it's time
49:25
Speaker 1: for deer to come or to shoot a deer. And
49:28
Speaker 1: and he kind of laughed when he said it. And
49:30
Speaker 1: I but when we got into the blind, cal And
49:33
Speaker 1: was sticking his rifle out of the out of his
49:35
Speaker 1: blind all the time. I was like, Brian, you got
49:37
Speaker 1: a quick doing that. You don't move it a lot.
49:39
Speaker 1: We're trying to He goes, hey, I'm an actor. I'm visualizing,
49:45
Speaker 1: just dead serious. He says that, And I'm like, okay,
49:48
Speaker 1: but get it down and then we're gonna be done
49:50
Speaker 1: with it. And to the guy's credit, he took two
49:53
Speaker 1: shots and he killed two deer. That's great. Yeah, and
49:57
Speaker 1: uh but yeah, there was uh the the time, you know,
50:04
Speaker 1: in the in the house and and cutting up the
50:07
Speaker 1: deer and sitting in a fence row with them. When
50:10
Speaker 1: they started talking about uh, they asked me what this
50:13
Speaker 1: black stuff was on some black cherry branches, and it's
50:18
Speaker 1: called black not but it's also commonly referred to a
50:21
Speaker 1: ship on a stick. And and Joe, those guys just
50:24
Speaker 1: started off on that and it became a YouTube video
50:26
Speaker 1: and uh, and then I also ended up being a cartoon,
50:30
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, it was crazy, but it was just
50:35
Speaker 1: super fun uh to do. And uh, I mean I've
50:40
Speaker 1: I've hung out with Joe and Brian together and separately
50:43
Speaker 1: since I haven't done any more hunting with them, but um,
50:48
Speaker 1: seem when they're in town or in the in the
50:50
Speaker 1: in the region. They gave me a call and gone
50:52
Speaker 1: to Chicago and see him and it's you know, it
50:54
Speaker 1: became a friendship that um. You know, it's just we
50:59
Speaker 1: stay in touch, and it was it was great fun
51:01
Speaker 1: to happen. And I can't tell you how much fun
51:02
Speaker 1: was bet. They seemed like a hoot. Speaking of speaking
51:06
Speaker 1: of a hoot, Dan, you got anything over there. So
51:11
Speaker 1: now I'm the guy who has to bring it back
51:13
Speaker 1: to the topic after that put a lot of pressure on, right,
51:19
Speaker 1: I know, right, So, Doug, my question is when the
51:24
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin first made the announcement, Hey we have
51:28
Speaker 1: c w D and it was seventy miles from your
51:33
Speaker 1: farm and where you were at, what kind of emotions
51:37
Speaker 1: were going through your head? I mean, were you fully
51:41
Speaker 1: educated at that point in time on c w D
51:44
Speaker 1: or was it something you took serious or was it
51:48
Speaker 1: just kind of a whatever, I'm just gonna keep doing
51:51
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. Yeah, I took it very seriously. Um.
51:58
Speaker 1: The warnings were, you know, we're from a conservation standpoint,
52:04
Speaker 1: you know, her level effects, population level effects, Um, what
52:09
Speaker 1: this did, what this did the individual deer? But so,
52:14
Speaker 1: I mean I remember then my first emotion being, Wow,
52:16
Speaker 1: it's really too bad for those guys down there, and
52:21
Speaker 1: what are they gonna do? And I hope they come
52:22
Speaker 1: up with something to to deal with this, they being
52:26
Speaker 1: you know, dn R and and and uh so. And
52:31
Speaker 1: then that first year we started, we got those uh
52:35
Speaker 1: we got the early season, the early sea, and we
52:39
Speaker 1: had t zones before that where you could go out
52:41
Speaker 1: and shoot an or this deer earlier. But now all
52:44
Speaker 1: of a sudden we had the certainer buck thing. And
52:46
Speaker 1: I mean to a degree it was like, uh, wow,
52:50
Speaker 1: that's cool. I guess I'll make time to go hunting
52:53
Speaker 1: on that weekend. And when I shot that big one,
52:56
Speaker 1: I mean I've kind of credit it, you know, um y,
53:01
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I would I have killed him with
53:03
Speaker 1: a bow, well maybe, but um, you know, there wasn't
53:06
Speaker 1: any doubt about it at thirty yards. But um, I
53:09
Speaker 1: was a rifle but so you know, you kind of
53:13
Speaker 1: saw that bonus opportunity there. But I also it was
53:18
Speaker 1: just really important to me, and it has been sense
53:20
Speaker 1: to continue to follow it, um and to educate myself
53:25
Speaker 1: on it, and you know, and hopefully to a degree
53:29
Speaker 1: um other folks um that I come in contact with.
53:33
Speaker 1: But that was Crest Fawn and it was there are
53:37
Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, there is Why are we panicking
53:39
Speaker 1: about this? Why are we panicking about it? And I
53:43
Speaker 1: don't think there was a panic about it. I think
53:45
Speaker 1: there was big resistance. And like I said, understand if
53:48
Speaker 1: we saw down there where they're going to eradicate the
53:51
Speaker 1: deer um. But so you know, it's sort of like,
53:56
Speaker 1: and you know, I was watching it from nearby. You know,
54:00
Speaker 1: it's sort of like when there's a Now I live
54:02
Speaker 1: up here in Casinovia, if there's a protest in Madison
54:04
Speaker 1: or something, well, I know it's going on down there,
54:07
Speaker 1: but I don't have to participate if I don't want to. UM.
54:11
Speaker 1: And that was kind of the way I felt about
54:13
Speaker 1: that too. Oh. I remember one of the first things
54:15
Speaker 1: Stan was, well the rivers there, that's going to slow
54:18
Speaker 1: any you know, spreading of it. So then it was
54:21
Speaker 1: really trying to learn about Okay, I was the disease
54:23
Speaker 1: spread and and those kind of issues as well. But yeah,
54:26
Speaker 1: it was an emotional h it was an emotional time
54:31
Speaker 1: for sure. So how many how many years of testing
54:35
Speaker 1: did you do on your farm? Uh? From the time
54:38
Speaker 1: I mean were you testing immediately when they made that
54:41
Speaker 1: announcement or was there a uh a lag time before
54:45
Speaker 1: you started testing on your farm? There was a leg time?
54:49
Speaker 1: Um one, Uh, there was an opportunity immediately in our area. UM,
54:57
Speaker 1: and I had to go back and look at my notes.
54:58
Speaker 1: But um, we've been testing for at least ten years.
55:05
Speaker 1: But that's changed over time too. It was where you
55:09
Speaker 1: could Uh, all they wanted to test were adult gear
55:12
Speaker 1: because they didn't think they'd be able to detected. And
55:16
Speaker 1: well like the two that we had this year, one
55:18
Speaker 1: was a two and a half yield buck when it
55:19
Speaker 1: was the three and a half yield. But um that
55:23
Speaker 1: they they those deer were those were most likely to
55:30
Speaker 1: have it, so that's what they were testing. Now we
55:32
Speaker 1: can have it, we can have every deer tested, but
55:35
Speaker 1: it's totally voluntary, um as it was then. But um,
55:43
Speaker 1: they may have had mandatory testing. I'm sorry for not
55:45
Speaker 1: knowing this, but mandatory testing in that in the eradication
55:49
Speaker 1: zone because we had on site check ins in those days. UM.
55:54
Speaker 1: You know, it was a time on a tradition, you know,
55:56
Speaker 1: you put your gear in the back of the truck
55:58
Speaker 1: and you take it to a gas station or or
56:01
Speaker 1: to the bar or whatever. We checked it in and
56:03
Speaker 1: you showed everybody your gear and we got it checked in.
56:05
Speaker 1: And so then that's when they were doing a lot
56:07
Speaker 1: of UM testing. But again, the closer you were to
56:11
Speaker 1: the hot spot, the more intense the testing was. UM.
56:16
Speaker 1: But then like where we used to check in here
56:18
Speaker 1: in Casnovia, UM, depending on the day, there'd be somebody there, Hey,
56:23
Speaker 1: can we you know, test your dear can we take
56:25
Speaker 1: the limplodes out of your deer? Um? And they were
56:28
Speaker 1: targeting those older doors and older bucks so UM. But
56:32
Speaker 1: then places were UH stations were set up. UH A
56:39
Speaker 1: lot of things that are a part of this. We
56:41
Speaker 1: don't have on site checking anymore. So. Actually, a dear
56:45
Speaker 1: friend of mine who had a check in station about
56:50
Speaker 1: eight miles from here, decided that what she was going
56:52
Speaker 1: to do was become a testing UH site to continue
56:56
Speaker 1: to have people come in. Um, and uh, she was testing.
57:04
Speaker 1: I think she told me five six years ago she
57:05
Speaker 1: was testing. They were they were taking the notes out
57:07
Speaker 1: of SEV This year was over four hundred and that
57:12
Speaker 1: was that's volunteer, voluntary testing people bringing them in. I
57:17
Speaker 1: want to test it. So Um, they've got more intense,
57:22
Speaker 1: you know, the closer with God and the more you've
57:23
Speaker 1: got to be known about it. So so so now Doug,
57:28
Speaker 1: that testing has continued. You guys have been doing that
57:30
Speaker 1: your farm for years. Now you finally have the dreaded
57:35
Speaker 1: positive results this year. Um, I guess first, tell me
57:38
Speaker 1: how you're feeling about that? How you you mentioned I
57:41
Speaker 1: think before we start recording that you've kind of come
57:43
Speaker 1: to peace with it. But what where's your head at?
57:48
Speaker 1: What are you thinking about all this? How has your
57:50
Speaker 1: perspective on things changed since you've been watching this for
57:53
Speaker 1: a decade or more slowly coming your way and now
57:56
Speaker 1: it's here. But before Doug answers that, let's take a
58:00
Speaker 1: quick break here for a word from our partners at
58:02
Speaker 1: White Tailed Properties. This week with White Tailed Properties, we
58:06
Speaker 1: are joined by Steve Purviance, a land specialists out of
58:09
Speaker 1: northern Oklahoma and Steve is going to be telling us
58:12
Speaker 1: about what he thinks separates the most successful hunters from
58:15
Speaker 1: everyone else. Well, Uh, to start with, you've got to
58:21
Speaker 1: be in an area, um, really a specific area that
58:26
Speaker 1: even potential to produce the biggest deer. Let's just use
58:30
Speaker 1: that for an example. You know, the guys that are
58:32
Speaker 1: killing the biggest are the big bucks. You know, they're
58:34
Speaker 1: hunting in states that can produce them to begin with,
58:36
Speaker 1: in areas of the state that can grow them. Um.
58:40
Speaker 1: And there's just so many factors, I guess really the
58:43
Speaker 1: first one would be just the tract of land or
58:47
Speaker 1: the tracts of land that they had to hunt. Um. Secondly,
58:51
Speaker 1: you gotta have time. You gotta have once you get
58:54
Speaker 1: into that area that's got a big deer, and a
58:56
Speaker 1: lot of people can start identifying them now you know
58:59
Speaker 1: you years ago you just had to put in the time.
59:01
Speaker 1: Now with all the technology trail cameras, et cetera, you
59:04
Speaker 1: can pretty much pinpoint a big buck and what you
59:06
Speaker 1: find one, You've got to have the time to put
59:09
Speaker 1: in the hunting. Um. And that's a lot of things
59:12
Speaker 1: that you know, that's a that's a big thing that
59:14
Speaker 1: a guy can't do these days. It seems everybody's busy,
59:16
Speaker 1: so the more successful hunters are going to have time,
59:20
Speaker 1: um and energy to put into hunt that specific big deer.
59:26
Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more and to see the
59:28
Speaker 1: properties that Steve currently has listed for sale, visit whitetail
59:32
Speaker 1: properties dot com. Backslash Purviance that's p U R B
59:37
Speaker 1: I A n C. Yeah. Um, it's interesting. Your listeners
59:44
Speaker 1: could go and look at the c w D website
59:47
Speaker 1: for UH Department Natural Resources and you can kind of
59:51
Speaker 1: look at how it's spread over the years because they
59:53
Speaker 1: have year to year comparisons and stuff, and how many
59:55
Speaker 1: of your positive per section which is s um. I've
1:00:03
Speaker 1: for the last two or three years have kind of
1:00:06
Speaker 1: kept my eyes open for uh dear that looks sick. Um.
1:00:11
Speaker 1: Two years ago when we the last time and shot
1:00:14
Speaker 1: me either here, um, we found a dead buck by
1:00:19
Speaker 1: a water hole and it was interesting because I had
1:00:26
Speaker 1: a camera on that trail camera on that on that
1:00:29
Speaker 1: water hole and I when I that that ninth that
1:00:32
Speaker 1: we found and we were up there, UH do building blinds,
1:00:35
Speaker 1: you know, ground blinds out of brush and stuff, and
1:00:38
Speaker 1: so you know, I contacted the biologist and they said,
1:00:42
Speaker 1: I've got pictures of this year and he don't look
1:00:44
Speaker 1: that good, but he doesn't look bad. And you know
1:00:47
Speaker 1: how a deer can look on a trail camera picture too,
1:00:49
Speaker 1: if you don't catch him at right angle off, they
1:00:51
Speaker 1: don't have their head up or whatever, they can look
1:00:53
Speaker 1: dumpy or whatever. But then to find that deer lay
1:00:56
Speaker 1: in there where you've got pictures of him for the
1:00:58
Speaker 1: last two weeks too, um and dead. I took that
1:01:01
Speaker 1: head in tested um non positive. They can't say negative
1:01:06
Speaker 1: because there's still a possibility and that con so tested
1:01:09
Speaker 1: non positive and they didn't test or anything else like
1:01:14
Speaker 1: you know, h D or or something like that. I
1:01:17
Speaker 1: speculated he got hit on the road and it was
1:01:18
Speaker 1: just um, um, we can buy it, and eventually it
1:01:23
Speaker 1: killed him. We didn't. I mean, he was kind of
1:01:26
Speaker 1: decayed quite a bit then, so we didn't. It wasn't
1:01:30
Speaker 1: like we could gout him and find out if there
1:01:31
Speaker 1: was you know, internal injuries or something like that. He'd
1:01:34
Speaker 1: been chewed on pretty good already. Um so ah, that was.
1:01:43
Speaker 1: I don't know where I was going with that, other
1:01:45
Speaker 1: than we were also testing um here that we were
1:01:49
Speaker 1: finding dead. You know, they test the ones that if
1:01:52
Speaker 1: they take take a deer in that get hit on
1:01:55
Speaker 1: the highway. They've been testing those as well, just to
1:01:57
Speaker 1: get a bigger sample. So what now now that it's here,
1:02:04
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about? What are you gonna do now?
1:02:06
Speaker 1: How are things going to change? And I guess, how
1:02:09
Speaker 1: do you feel about hunting now in this area? Well,
1:02:14
Speaker 1: one of the things you said before, what were the emotions?
1:02:16
Speaker 1: So we've been taking all these deer in and getting
1:02:22
Speaker 1: the results back very quickly. Um, seven to ten days. Um.
1:02:27
Speaker 1: We had some guys here the second second day and
1:02:31
Speaker 1: uh of gun season. Some friends have let be in
1:02:35
Speaker 1: dissent by the way, and how yeah, it's a couple
1:02:43
Speaker 1: of them anyway, But uh, those deer got tested. I
1:02:47
Speaker 1: shot about opening day. We shot nine deer on the
1:02:51
Speaker 1: second day, and all those year got tested. We're getting
1:02:54
Speaker 1: those results back in ten days, seven days, ten days.
1:03:00
Speaker 1: You know, I think when I shot on Saturday, I
1:03:02
Speaker 1: got I had the results by the following Saturday, and
1:03:06
Speaker 1: so I felt really good about it. We're getting non
1:03:08
Speaker 1: positively gonna kill him four and a half year old
1:03:09
Speaker 1: buck and he's non positive. You know that's great. Um.
1:03:13
Speaker 1: I didn't shoot one of the kine of the Latians.
1:03:17
Speaker 1: Did but um uh, when I shot the buck that
1:03:21
Speaker 1: I that tested positive, we were group hunting that you
1:03:24
Speaker 1: can do in Wisconsin to my brother and a couple
1:03:26
Speaker 1: of other guys, and anyway, shot that buck. Um we
1:03:31
Speaker 1: we it's time to get him out. And I was like, well,
1:03:36
Speaker 1: put my gloves on and getting them out. And I
1:03:38
Speaker 1: got a little blood on my pants, you know, you
1:03:41
Speaker 1: know how it is you get and h I didn't
1:03:44
Speaker 1: think much of it because we hadn't had a positive yet.
1:03:47
Speaker 1: Then I did that positive result and I'm like, should
1:03:51
Speaker 1: I be worrying about the blood on my pants? And
1:03:53
Speaker 1: then I'm thinking, oh my god, you're now you're panicking.
1:03:56
Speaker 1: Should I worry about the knife that I used? Because
1:03:58
Speaker 1: they say you can't remove it surgical you know, from
1:04:01
Speaker 1: steel and all of that, and there's protocols to go
1:04:04
Speaker 1: to follow this. Um actually something I asked, but there
1:04:09
Speaker 1: was that. It was something that I asked Brian Richards
1:04:12
Speaker 1: but um which I can talk about in a minute.
1:04:15
Speaker 1: But one of the other points of our discussion was
1:04:18
Speaker 1: that dick factor. And I just remember feeling very differently
1:04:21
Speaker 1: about that deer. It was a beautiful book and just
1:04:26
Speaker 1: feeling like, so now you can't tell and how do
1:04:31
Speaker 1: I you know it actually happened to be one that
1:04:34
Speaker 1: I gave a deer that I gave away, that we
1:04:36
Speaker 1: gave a lay I should say someone else. UM. And
1:04:40
Speaker 1: then I let them know, as you know, it's positive.
1:04:42
Speaker 1: So they're not eating it. Um, and I'm not gonna
1:04:45
Speaker 1: eat don't know. I guess that's the other part of it. UM.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: The Center for Disease Control and Stephen I talked about this,
1:04:51
Speaker 1: and maybe you and I spoke about a little bit.
1:04:53
Speaker 1: The Center for Disease Control says not to eat it.
1:04:55
Speaker 1: The World Health or Health Organization says not c w
1:04:59
Speaker 1: D posit the meat UM in Wisconsin Health Center says
1:05:06
Speaker 1: not to eat it. That's good enough for me. You know,
1:05:08
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do it. I'm just not going to
1:05:10
Speaker 1: eat it. Painful to think about that. Uh My buddy
1:05:14
Speaker 1: who got the other one that tested positive, he'd already
1:05:17
Speaker 1: ground it all up to Hamburger, and you know, are
1:05:20
Speaker 1: most of it. He had the choice cuts and then
1:05:21
Speaker 1: he ground everything up for Hamburger. And he's sitting there
1:05:23
Speaker 1: looking at a pile of meating this reason that you
1:05:26
Speaker 1: know he's They're having a baby in a couple of
1:05:29
Speaker 1: weeks he's like, you know, so that that part of
1:05:33
Speaker 1: it is just they're just killing me. Um. I've had
1:05:37
Speaker 1: people tell me, oh, they don't know, you should just
1:05:40
Speaker 1: go ahead and eat. To me, that's the hard one.
1:05:45
Speaker 1: And I think that everybody has to decide what they're
1:05:50
Speaker 1: uh tolerance for risk is, you know, so that that would,
1:05:59
Speaker 1: like you said, it would be painful, I would I
1:06:01
Speaker 1: like that is the Like one of my worst fears
1:06:04
Speaker 1: is ever to come home one day and have my
1:06:07
Speaker 1: freezer have you know, the power gone off or something,
1:06:10
Speaker 1: my freezer shut down, and have all that meat, you
1:06:13
Speaker 1: know rot. Just the idea of of that meat going
1:06:16
Speaker 1: to waste would literally cause me like physical pain. So
1:06:20
Speaker 1: this is a similar to the situation you kill the
1:06:22
Speaker 1: deer and now you can't eat it. That meat has
1:06:24
Speaker 1: to go to waste. That has got to be an
1:06:26
Speaker 1: awful feeling. Um, how does that change? And we talked
1:06:32
Speaker 1: about this before about the long term implications, but how
1:06:35
Speaker 1: does this change hunting for you in the future when
1:06:40
Speaker 1: you will make a decision to shoot a deer and
1:06:43
Speaker 1: you have to know in the back of your mind
1:06:46
Speaker 1: there's a chance that I won't eat this deer, that
1:06:48
Speaker 1: I can't eat this deer. Will that impact you at all,
1:06:51
Speaker 1: dug in making the decision to kill a deer in
1:06:54
Speaker 1: the future, And that should I even kill a deer
1:06:57
Speaker 1: if I won't eat it? Um, I don't know if
1:06:58
Speaker 1: that's something that you wouldn't make an impact for you
1:07:01
Speaker 1: or not. Obviously there's other management implications too, But where's
1:07:04
Speaker 1: your head at when it comes to all that? You
1:07:09
Speaker 1: Just just asking the question kind of makes my stomach
1:07:12
Speaker 1: turn a little different, you know, It's like that, do
1:07:16
Speaker 1: I even want to? I can understand why there's gonna
1:07:19
Speaker 1: be people who say, as I don't even want to,
1:07:21
Speaker 1: I don't even want to kill a deer. I'm not
1:07:23
Speaker 1: that guy. UM. I'll tell you this that south of US,
1:07:28
Speaker 1: in the southeast part of Richland County, UM there last year,
1:07:33
Speaker 1: UM it was a coin flip as the weather an
1:07:36
Speaker 1: adult buckhead um c W D or not. And now
1:07:40
Speaker 1: it's the population according to the recent conversations that I
1:07:45
Speaker 1: had had of the deer that we're tested those bucks
1:07:52
Speaker 1: and fauns of them. We're uh testing positive, so ons
1:08:00
Speaker 1: are testing positive or you can understand it, it's CWD positive,
1:08:03
Speaker 1: dough and her fawn is developing the phone liv it
1:08:06
Speaker 1: or she's positive. I can understand where that could happen.
1:08:10
Speaker 1: So they look, it seems like there's some transfer there,
1:08:13
Speaker 1: but it may also be because of the you know
1:08:15
Speaker 1: that the the amount of prions that are around and activities,
1:08:19
Speaker 1: and there's a big there's a big gar population now
1:08:21
Speaker 1: there as well, um, and that's going to start having
1:08:25
Speaker 1: That's where they're talking about population level impacts. Um. Anyway
1:08:33
Speaker 1: to go back to your question, I'm not stopping deer hunting.
1:08:37
Speaker 1: What I'm wondering about, and I'm going to continue to
1:08:42
Speaker 1: take precautions. I'm not going to even me Ah, I
1:08:47
Speaker 1: wonder about a lot of things. Mark. Now it's like, ah, well,
1:08:53
Speaker 1: there's a processor here in Wisconsin. You may have read
1:08:55
Speaker 1: the articles. You we're not making sausage. We're not taking
1:08:57
Speaker 1: deer in any We're not going to take sausage. It's
1:09:00
Speaker 1: we we it's you know. That's that's the level that
1:09:03
Speaker 1: they've gotten to because if the deer are uh, because
1:09:08
Speaker 1: not everybody tested their deer, you know, you're not required to.
1:09:10
Speaker 1: It's so really voluntary. Um, well, then why not take
1:09:15
Speaker 1: der only deer that have been tested well? And now
1:09:17
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's becoming an administrative nightmarage you
1:09:20
Speaker 1: can understand. UM. So you know, and a lot of guys, UM,
1:09:26
Speaker 1: we we do both processing ourselves and have some process
1:09:30
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of depends on who it is
1:09:32
Speaker 1: and when it is and how many years we got
1:09:35
Speaker 1: hands um and UH. And so we have a processor,
1:09:41
Speaker 1: UM you know, it's a U s D a inspected
1:09:43
Speaker 1: facility that you know, they butcher all kinds of other
1:09:47
Speaker 1: meat as well. And in that same facility they're processing
1:09:50
Speaker 1: deer that UM are being tested because that's actually where
1:09:56
Speaker 1: are UM UH food Bay donation program is and which
1:10:03
Speaker 1: we were thrilled to get back. It went away for
1:10:06
Speaker 1: a few years, but now they're and they're doing the
1:10:09
Speaker 1: food bank donation program. Aga end up being paid um
1:10:13
Speaker 1: you know by funds that have been raised to process here.
1:10:16
Speaker 1: So what they're doing is boning and de boning everything,
1:10:19
Speaker 1: and then they isolate each deer in a separate bag
1:10:24
Speaker 1: with the UH registration number and the c W the
1:10:29
Speaker 1: test number on it. And if that deer comes back positive,
1:10:33
Speaker 1: then they discard the meat and if it comes back nonpositive,
1:10:37
Speaker 1: they grind it up and give it to the to
1:10:39
Speaker 1: the food pantry. UM. So when you think about it
1:10:43
Speaker 1: in those terms. Boy, what a there's another concern that
1:10:48
Speaker 1: the both the facility and then the food bank made
1:10:51
Speaker 1: um you know, suffer as a result of it. Um.
1:10:56
Speaker 1: But I was bringing this up to some of my
1:10:58
Speaker 1: conservation friends the other day, UM and one of them
1:11:01
Speaker 1: who's done a lot of work at the testing facility
1:11:04
Speaker 1: down the Black Earth, she said, well, do you want
1:11:07
Speaker 1: to get over your fear of c w D, just
1:11:09
Speaker 1: go down and work for a day of the testing facility,
1:11:12
Speaker 1: because it's everywhere down there, ya have. I that really
1:11:17
Speaker 1: doesn't make me feel that much better. And she said, well,
1:11:20
Speaker 1: you know, the truth is it's it's uh, that's a
1:11:25
Speaker 1: matter of like lowering the risk as much as you can.
1:11:29
Speaker 1: And I get and and the point was that you
1:11:31
Speaker 1: know they've got these um um secures the wrong word,
1:11:36
Speaker 1: but uh facilities, these kits that are isolating each one
1:11:41
Speaker 1: of the samples, right, So they're doing that. But you've
1:11:44
Speaker 1: got you're gonna have that's where they're testing the deer,
1:11:47
Speaker 1: so you're gonna have the testing the limph nodes, the
1:11:49
Speaker 1: stuff is going to be around. Their protocols are really interesting.
1:11:53
Speaker 1: I asked about this. They changed surgical blades on the
1:11:57
Speaker 1: tool for each year, and I watched this half where
1:12:00
Speaker 1: I get mine tested or where I get the limp
1:12:02
Speaker 1: modes extracted. They're actually doing the testing. They're just extracting
1:12:05
Speaker 1: the limp noodes and taking the information, sending them to
1:12:08
Speaker 1: this facility and black earth and uh. And then they
1:12:12
Speaker 1: soaked the um. They discard that blade, and then they
1:12:16
Speaker 1: soaked the the handle in Uh. It's a surgical you know,
1:12:21
Speaker 1: it's a scalpel. And they said, so candles in some
1:12:24
Speaker 1: solution that currently does as much as they can in
1:12:27
Speaker 1: terms of removing it. And they're so they're using a
1:12:30
Speaker 1: clean one for each one, so there'sn't cross contamination. But
1:12:34
Speaker 1: so her point was, even within the facility, it's being
1:12:38
Speaker 1: limited as to how far it is, but you know
1:12:41
Speaker 1: you're being exposed to it. So back to the deer
1:12:43
Speaker 1: that we are we killed that had CWDT after the fact,
1:12:47
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about blood, I'm thinking about you know, and
1:12:50
Speaker 1: of course it's not I mean, you have to learn
1:12:53
Speaker 1: about it all. But you know, the brain and the
1:12:55
Speaker 1: limp nodes and the spinal columns where it concentrates to
1:12:58
Speaker 1: begin with UM. So we're not you know, we're deboning
1:13:02
Speaker 1: the meat, which you know is kind of my general
1:13:05
Speaker 1: way of doing it anyway, Um, I'm not eating deer brains,
1:13:09
Speaker 1: um and uh. But at the same time, you're looking
1:13:13
Speaker 1: at that deer differently, you know, and you've got blood
1:13:16
Speaker 1: on you know something, you're cleaning your knife. Is this
1:13:18
Speaker 1: something they have to worry about it? And again it
1:13:20
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to the because I knew it
1:13:22
Speaker 1: was a question that would come up somewhere along the line.
1:13:25
Speaker 1: Isn't the risk zero, No, it's it's minuscule. And that
1:13:30
Speaker 1: is one of the things that's really important to remember.
1:13:32
Speaker 1: It's that you know, CWD has not, as far as
1:13:35
Speaker 1: we know, transferred to humans. UM. There are similar spongeform
1:13:41
Speaker 1: encephalopathy's that UM humans get, like Chris felt the Acome's disease,
1:13:48
Speaker 1: and mad calls another one um Wolu being the third,
1:13:51
Speaker 1: and those are all in the same family. But it
1:13:54
Speaker 1: hasn't transferred um as far as we know. And the
1:13:58
Speaker 1: other thing we don't know is it does how long
1:14:00
Speaker 1: does it take to affect the human you know, Chrei felt, Uh.
1:14:04
Speaker 1: The incomes disease affects people in their mid fifties to
1:14:07
Speaker 1: early sixties, UM, And it used to be thought it
1:14:10
Speaker 1: was early onset dementia or early onset Alzheimer's. Um, So,
1:14:16
Speaker 1: how long does it take? You know? I think Steve
1:14:18
Speaker 1: asked the question when we were when we had Brian
1:14:20
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I mean, if it's something's going to
1:14:22
Speaker 1: kill me when I'm a hundred years old, you know,
1:14:24
Speaker 1: there's plenty of don't even take me before them about it.
1:14:29
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a good that's a good perspective.
1:14:31
Speaker 1: I guess from my standpoint, it's like my friend said
1:14:34
Speaker 1: when he got his positive, he goes, well, you know,
1:14:38
Speaker 1: he's your age. You know, it's thirty year in his
1:14:40
Speaker 1: early thirties and he's about to have his about to
1:14:43
Speaker 1: have their first child. And he goes, I'm not going
1:14:46
Speaker 1: to do it. Guy sixty years old, like myself ended.
1:14:50
Speaker 1: You know, I can make that decision for myself, but
1:14:52
Speaker 1: I'm sure not going to make it for my kids.
1:14:54
Speaker 1: And the decision that I have made is that I'm
1:14:56
Speaker 1: not going to eat it um um. And that might change,
1:15:02
Speaker 1: you know, my wife here's this, She'll say the hell
1:15:04
Speaker 1: it is, but but uh, you know that's that's where
1:15:10
Speaker 1: that's what my head's at with it. So when I
1:15:12
Speaker 1: said I made peace with it, one of the best
1:15:14
Speaker 1: things that I did was to have these folks. I
1:15:16
Speaker 1: have just an annual hunt always one day in the
1:15:18
Speaker 1: holiday hunt with some friends that are in the conservation
1:15:21
Speaker 1: murals and Brian richards Uh joined us this time, so
1:15:26
Speaker 1: you know, I got to ask a bunch of more
1:15:27
Speaker 1: questions and follow up on some things. And having gotten
1:15:31
Speaker 1: that positive, it was more you know, at the front
1:15:35
Speaker 1: of my my mind, and I felt better about it
1:15:39
Speaker 1: after the fact. So damn, what do you got? So Okay,
1:15:47
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I have this comparison c
1:15:52
Speaker 1: w D similar to the way people approach cancer, right, Like,
1:15:58
Speaker 1: I didn't really think much about cancer or or you know,
1:16:01
Speaker 1: pay too much attention to it until I've had I
1:16:04
Speaker 1: had a family member, you know, my stepmother died from it.
1:16:09
Speaker 1: So kind of similar to that way of thinking, what
1:16:13
Speaker 1: would you say to maybe someone who is either in
1:16:16
Speaker 1: your area that has not had a positive test yet,
1:16:21
Speaker 1: or maybe the you know, hunters from other states who
1:16:25
Speaker 1: don't have positives in their areas, you know they're hunting
1:16:31
Speaker 1: land yet why is why is it important to be
1:16:36
Speaker 1: concerned about c w D And kind of how this
1:16:41
Speaker 1: spread is you know, growing throughout the United States? Well,
1:16:48
Speaker 1: there are. Well, one is the possible human impact. First,
1:16:53
Speaker 1: that's the reason. That's kind of what we've been concentrating on, right,
1:16:56
Speaker 1: But I know what you mean about that feeling about
1:16:59
Speaker 1: about cancer for instance, And to go back to what
1:17:03
Speaker 1: I was just talking about my own head, that's actually
1:17:06
Speaker 1: the analogy that I thought of two as well. Small
1:17:11
Speaker 1: consigarettes isn't necessarily going to give me cancer, but it
1:17:13
Speaker 1: is going to increase chances. So I'm gonna change my
1:17:18
Speaker 1: behavior to decrease those chances. Right. So that's kind of
1:17:22
Speaker 1: the same attitude that I'm taking about CWB with my
1:17:24
Speaker 1: own in my own uh world. So why is it important? Um?
1:17:31
Speaker 1: One of the things one of the first reasons is
1:17:34
Speaker 1: beyond beyond the possible human health implications is especially in
1:17:41
Speaker 1: high density areas, UM, we're getting to a point where
1:17:45
Speaker 1: we're going to start seeing and there is speculation that
1:17:48
Speaker 1: in some of the areas they are already seeing population
1:17:53
Speaker 1: UH level impacts UM. Down in the in the south
1:17:58
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin River in the zone down there, UM, there's
1:18:01
Speaker 1: been a lot of we're not seeing dear whether kill
1:18:04
Speaker 1: isn't up, but they're not they're seeing fewer gear And
1:18:08
Speaker 1: you know, the question is is that having population impact
1:18:11
Speaker 1: levels Because c w D from UH it's incubation. Incubation
1:18:19
Speaker 1: period is twenty four months my understanding of it UM
1:18:23
Speaker 1: and again just had this conversation with some experts about it.
1:18:26
Speaker 1: Twenty four months. The last six to eight weeks are
1:18:29
Speaker 1: when it's clinical, when you're gonna see it, and at
1:18:33
Speaker 1: the end of that sixty eight weeks, dear is dead.
1:18:35
Speaker 1: So two years if we have does and does say
1:18:39
Speaker 1: a year a dough fond has c w D, which
1:18:43
Speaker 1: is happening south of this, that dough is going to
1:18:46
Speaker 1: die before she has a faun. If you think about
1:18:51
Speaker 1: it in the terms of how quickly you know she's
1:18:53
Speaker 1: a fawn, She's sure not gonna breathe. She might break
1:18:55
Speaker 1: this fall, but she's gonna likely go through the following year,
1:18:59
Speaker 1: and then when she's hitting two years old, it's supposed
1:19:01
Speaker 1: to be dropping her first fond. That's when she's probably
1:19:06
Speaker 1: gonna die from it. So and the next thing. So
1:19:09
Speaker 1: what about that year and a half old though, who's
1:19:11
Speaker 1: going to die from it? In two years? Well, I
1:19:18
Speaker 1: know we've had I know we all have this. Every
1:19:20
Speaker 1: hunter out there has this who spends any time observing
1:19:23
Speaker 1: whitetail dear, you get that old go out there and
1:19:25
Speaker 1: she's the matriarch of a little herd and the little group,
1:19:28
Speaker 1: that family group. Um you know. So I mean, I
1:19:33
Speaker 1: don't we kill the deer a couple of a couple
1:19:34
Speaker 1: of years ago, it was five and a half years old,
1:19:36
Speaker 1: and you certainly see him that age. But a year
1:19:38
Speaker 1: and a half old, she's not gonna get to be
1:19:40
Speaker 1: five and a half. She's gonna have the disease. She's
1:19:42
Speaker 1: gonna die at three and a half. All of a sudden,
1:19:44
Speaker 1: those animals aren't dropping that one fon or those two
1:19:48
Speaker 1: fonts anymore. So you can see where it's going to
1:19:51
Speaker 1: have a population level impact. Not that it's killing dear,
1:19:56
Speaker 1: but it's killing dear that are having fonts. So that's
1:19:59
Speaker 1: a big concern about it, um and one that I've
1:20:05
Speaker 1: really just started learning about in the last few months.
1:20:08
Speaker 1: And when they say population level impact, I'm like, well,
1:20:12
Speaker 1: but so it's killing some deer, I mean, and so
1:20:15
Speaker 1: they're going to still keep reproducing. Yeah, But if the
1:20:17
Speaker 1: deer who are doing the reproducing aren't there, how are
1:20:20
Speaker 1: they getting to reproduce? So um that I find the
1:20:25
Speaker 1: particularly concerning um in our area. The other reason for well,
1:20:30
Speaker 1: I guess it's not not your maan to CWG. But
1:20:33
Speaker 1: there's just conservation we have. We have some population issues, um,
1:20:37
Speaker 1: and we just need to reduce the herd just from
1:20:40
Speaker 1: an overall health standpoint. But UM, I can tell you
1:20:44
Speaker 1: one thing that I've learned about c w D, and
1:20:46
Speaker 1: this is how is a science. If you don't have it,
1:20:48
Speaker 1: you don't want it. Um. And uh, it's it's so
1:20:54
Speaker 1: anything you can do to either stop it because that
1:20:59
Speaker 1: ultimate game deer hunting of the population collapse that I'm
1:21:02
Speaker 1: talking about, that I never stop it, which of course
1:21:06
Speaker 1: is some kind of cure. The only one is the
1:21:09
Speaker 1: slow it spread. Um. And how do you slow it spread? Well,
1:21:16
Speaker 1: it sounds a little strange, but what you do is
1:21:18
Speaker 1: reduce the population so the population doesn't collapse. Um. I
1:21:22
Speaker 1: guess that's a Vietnam analogy, as we burned the village
1:21:25
Speaker 1: to save the village. Um. But you do that and uh,
1:21:30
Speaker 1: and then you're looking at the demographic as well, and
1:21:32
Speaker 1: that that's an interesting, you know, dynamic. And that's why
1:21:37
Speaker 1: I took off the the nine buck next year restrictions.
1:21:41
Speaker 1: The sunburrow there in the sunbrero if you follow that,
1:21:43
Speaker 1: we have this hat that you have to wear if
1:21:45
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, and or you when you had
1:21:47
Speaker 1: where um, if you made a mistake, I'm killing too
1:21:50
Speaker 1: small of a deer. And then where we're you know,
1:21:54
Speaker 1: shooting a knob and that kind of stuff. That's where
1:21:56
Speaker 1: we were, you know, four or five years ago and
1:22:00
Speaker 1: not now. Um. So the demographic is who's the who
1:22:05
Speaker 1: who are the most widely traveled? Uh demographic and a
1:22:09
Speaker 1: deer hurt young bos right, So that's the hard part
1:22:16
Speaker 1: when it comes to a lot to kill big anther
1:22:17
Speaker 1: deer um, which I love to do. All right. Before
1:22:23
Speaker 1: we move on, we're going to take our final break
1:22:25
Speaker 1: of the day to hear from our partners at Matthew's Archery.
1:22:29
Speaker 1: But today rather than hearing about their new bau the
1:22:32
Speaker 1: Try Acts, which just came out this fall, we're actually
1:22:34
Speaker 1: gonna talk about arrows, and again, as we have over
1:22:38
Speaker 1: the past few weeks, we've got Mark Hays, a design
1:22:40
Speaker 1: engineer for Matthews, with us to talk about that. And
1:22:44
Speaker 1: after asking him to help us, I want him to
1:22:47
Speaker 1: help us understand what things we should be thinking about
1:22:50
Speaker 1: when choosing our arrow, you know, arrow weight different things
1:22:53
Speaker 1: on those lines. He gave me so much value. I
1:22:57
Speaker 1: guess when it comes to what he provided, I realized
1:23:00
Speaker 1: it would be it would be a shame if we
1:23:02
Speaker 1: had to cut what he told me down to like
1:23:04
Speaker 1: a minute and a half or two minutes. So so
1:23:06
Speaker 1: think about this less as one of our ad spots,
1:23:09
Speaker 1: and actually it is more of a segment because what
1:23:11
Speaker 1: I did here is I decided to keep the entire
1:23:12
Speaker 1: answer to my question. It's about a seven minute long segment.
1:23:16
Speaker 1: So if you don't care at all about archery or
1:23:19
Speaker 1: choosing the right arrow for your bow, feel free to
1:23:22
Speaker 1: just fast forward from this point about seven minutes forward,
1:23:25
Speaker 1: and then we'll get right back to the interview with Doug.
1:23:26
Speaker 1: But if you are an archery guy and a bow
1:23:29
Speaker 1: hunting guy and you just want to get a little
1:23:30
Speaker 1: more insight into how to make the right decisions about
1:23:33
Speaker 1: choosing those arrows and matching them up properly to your
1:23:36
Speaker 1: bow into your pursuit of choice, I think you'll find
1:23:39
Speaker 1: this really valuable. So I'm gonna stop yapping. We'll throw
1:23:42
Speaker 1: it over to Marquey's here. Give that a listen if
1:23:45
Speaker 1: you're interested, and then we will be back shortly with
1:23:47
Speaker 1: Doug discussing his future plans for management in dealing with
1:23:51
Speaker 1: the c w D issue. Sure, so let's start with stealth. Um.
1:23:57
Speaker 1: You know, it's fun for us because we are so
1:23:59
Speaker 1: focused on stell self stealth. Everyone was building their hunting
1:24:02
Speaker 1: arrows this year extremely heavy and extremely purpose built, really
1:24:06
Speaker 1: silent veins and all this stuff. Because once you have
1:24:08
Speaker 1: a bow that's incredibly silent, you want your arrow to
1:24:11
Speaker 1: be just as silent. So a heavy arrow is going
1:24:14
Speaker 1: to be quiet. The reason for that is actually twofold. Uh,
1:24:20
Speaker 1: the bow itself is going to be more efficient shooting
1:24:24
Speaker 1: a heavier arrow, and therefore it's going to have less
1:24:27
Speaker 1: sound and vibration, which we were talking about earlier. So
1:24:32
Speaker 1: the heavy arrow itself is great, but there's some myths
1:24:36
Speaker 1: associated with it. People think that a heavy arrow is
1:24:40
Speaker 1: more kinetic energy. Now, if we're talking just out of
1:24:43
Speaker 1: the bow, it's really not much more kinetic energy. And
1:24:47
Speaker 1: the only gaining kinetic energy from a heavier over a
1:24:50
Speaker 1: light is the increase in efficiency, which is only a
1:24:54
Speaker 1: percentage point or or so, depending on how big of
1:24:57
Speaker 1: a gap you're you're thinking. But a in question I
1:25:00
Speaker 1: get a lot is hey should I shoot a hundred
1:25:03
Speaker 1: grain broad heads, or should I put tip weight to
1:25:06
Speaker 1: get more kinetic energy? And if you're doing it for
1:25:08
Speaker 1: kinetic energy, the answer is almost always no. UM. You
1:25:12
Speaker 1: should be setting out for a certain arrow weight that
1:25:16
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with to get the speed that you want. UM.
1:25:20
Speaker 1: If you're talking about kinetic energy, though, you shouldn't be
1:25:23
Speaker 1: talking about more kine energy out of the boat. Where
1:25:25
Speaker 1: you should be talking about is down range. So we've
1:25:28
Speaker 1: done a lot of arrow testing in the past. But
1:25:31
Speaker 1: what your goal. I guess in my goal when I
1:25:33
Speaker 1: build an arrow is one have an arrow that uh,
1:25:37
Speaker 1: I think it's heavy enough to impact the target correctly
1:25:42
Speaker 1: and get good penetration. Then also, I don't want to
1:25:44
Speaker 1: sacrifice a lot of speed. I got twenty eight and straw.
1:25:47
Speaker 1: I want to keep as much speed as possible. UM.
1:25:51
Speaker 1: But with that end heavy arrow, it's going to keep
1:25:56
Speaker 1: more kinetic energy down range and that's where the differ
1:26:00
Speaker 1: prints is going to be, not out of the bow.
1:26:01
Speaker 1: And I think that's the big myth that everyone is
1:26:04
Speaker 1: UH has a hard time understanding, is that out of
1:26:08
Speaker 1: the bow it's only I don't know. I've I've done
1:26:11
Speaker 1: a couple of tests but let's take forty grains for example,
1:26:15
Speaker 1: it's only point four foot pounds of energy more out
1:26:19
Speaker 1: of the bow. But down range, let's say fifty yards,
1:26:23
Speaker 1: I'm looking at sary here, it's one and a half
1:26:27
Speaker 1: and it's going to keep increasing as it goes down further. Now,
1:26:31
Speaker 1: that's still not a lot of difference. And that's kind
1:26:33
Speaker 1: of where I'm talking about those myths that if I
1:26:37
Speaker 1: just had thirty more grains of front, I'm gonna have
1:26:40
Speaker 1: more kinnegic energy downrange. Yes, but not a lot more,
1:26:44
Speaker 1: is the true answer to that. But I will say
1:26:47
Speaker 1: one thing. Front of center is huge for accuracy, So,
1:26:52
Speaker 1: regardless of the kinnectic energy, regardless of the momentum debate,
1:26:56
Speaker 1: front of center is huge for accuracy. So yes, I'm
1:26:59
Speaker 1: going to tell that guy that asked me, should I
1:27:01
Speaker 1: put thirty more grains up front? Absolutely, because your arrow
1:27:04
Speaker 1: is gonna be inherently more accurate because of that, but
1:27:08
Speaker 1: not necessarily because of the kinetic energy. Can you can
1:27:11
Speaker 1: you briefly explain front of center and why that's important. Yeah,
1:27:15
Speaker 1: So it's the measurement of the balance point of the arrow,
1:27:18
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the mass of the arrow wherever
1:27:21
Speaker 1: it balances is going to be the center of mass,
1:27:24
Speaker 1: and the goal is to get that as far away
1:27:26
Speaker 1: from your steering as possible. What your steering is your fletching.
1:27:30
Speaker 1: We measured in front of center. Um. That goes back
1:27:34
Speaker 1: a few years of why we do that, but basically
1:27:37
Speaker 1: the calculation is how far is my center of gravity
1:27:41
Speaker 1: the balance point in front of the center of the arrow,
1:27:44
Speaker 1: and that's the percentage we give. Now. Really, like I said,
1:27:47
Speaker 1: it's it's the trying to get the center of gravity
1:27:50
Speaker 1: as far away from the steering, which is your fletching,
1:27:53
Speaker 1: as possible, and it's the further you can get that away.
1:27:56
Speaker 1: The straighter arrow is gonna stay down range perfect. Now
1:28:00
Speaker 1: what about you know, if if you had to choose
1:28:06
Speaker 1: people like you talked a lot about the benefits of
1:28:09
Speaker 1: the heavy arrow, um, but then the benefits of the
1:28:12
Speaker 1: lighter arrow that some people might look at is just
1:28:14
Speaker 1: the speed or maybe that's going to be a flatter trajectory. Um.
1:28:19
Speaker 1: Is the heavy arrow always the better choice because of
1:28:22
Speaker 1: some of the things you mentioned, or is dependent on
1:28:25
Speaker 1: some of the other factors like how fast you want
1:28:27
Speaker 1: to be shooting, or your draw length or different things
1:28:30
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it definitely depends and as you can
1:28:33
Speaker 1: probably tell from this conversation, it's always give and take. So,
1:28:37
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, a light arrow is going to be
1:28:39
Speaker 1: faster and if you can get that front of center
1:28:42
Speaker 1: um correct, Uh, it's gonna shoot good too. Um. So
1:28:47
Speaker 1: it depends on what you think your maximum ranges. So
1:28:53
Speaker 1: you have to have an arrow that will get to
1:28:54
Speaker 1: that range without hitting your site. As you're dropping your site,
1:28:58
Speaker 1: you're getting closer and closer that arrow. So you don't
1:29:00
Speaker 1: want a big, lobbing arrow. You'll never get out to
1:29:03
Speaker 1: the yardage you might be able to achieve with a
1:29:06
Speaker 1: different arrow. However, the light arrow is going to be
1:29:11
Speaker 1: harder in elements, and one of the biggest elements obviously
1:29:15
Speaker 1: that we can think of is wind. Um, A heavy
1:29:19
Speaker 1: arrow with little veins and good front of center is
1:29:23
Speaker 1: going to buck the wind way way better than a
1:29:26
Speaker 1: light arrow. A light arrow is gonna carry um. And
1:29:29
Speaker 1: I think you know the goal for me personally is
1:29:33
Speaker 1: I want to arrow. Actually an arrow is specific to
1:29:37
Speaker 1: what you want to do, but let's talk out west
1:29:39
Speaker 1: or when you're shooting long distances and the elements like wind,
1:29:43
Speaker 1: you want to arrow that's heavy, good front of center,
1:29:45
Speaker 1: and little veins that can steer your broad head. So
1:29:49
Speaker 1: there's a lot of given takes in there. You need
1:29:51
Speaker 1: veins big enough to steer your broad head, but small
1:29:54
Speaker 1: enough not to get bucked by the wind. Um. But
1:29:57
Speaker 1: in the timber you might get away with bigger your
1:30:00
Speaker 1: fletchings and and uhum, with a different kind of broadhead
1:30:05
Speaker 1: as well, because you're not dealing with that wind. But
1:30:08
Speaker 1: so you know, I look at my wife too. I'm
1:30:12
Speaker 1: not gonna give her a heavy arrow, even though I
1:30:13
Speaker 1: know the benefits of it for me, because she needs
1:30:16
Speaker 1: an arrow that's gonna shoot at least two hundred sixty
1:30:19
Speaker 1: second or two and forty, just so she can. She
1:30:22
Speaker 1: doesn't have the gap as as fine. Uh you know
1:30:26
Speaker 1: the difference in her sight compared to mine. Her twenty
1:30:29
Speaker 1: thirties huge. She even has a twenty five because of
1:30:32
Speaker 1: how big it is. So if you had to be
1:30:34
Speaker 1: so fine and aiming because your arrow is heavy and slow,
1:30:38
Speaker 1: that's gonna be difficult for her. So I would rather
1:30:41
Speaker 1: have her a light arrow that her pens can be
1:30:43
Speaker 1: more normal gaps, so then her margin of arrows way
1:30:48
Speaker 1: way smaller. All right, So hopefully you found that helpful
1:30:52
Speaker 1: and If you would like to learn more about the
1:30:54
Speaker 1: Matthews Tryacts, you can visit Matthews Inc. Dot com. What
1:31:00
Speaker 1: specifically are you doing now? You've alluded to a few
1:31:04
Speaker 1: things like changing your buck management strategy, but but can
1:31:07
Speaker 1: you layout exactly what the new management plan is going
1:31:12
Speaker 1: forward now that c w D is there? And then
1:31:15
Speaker 1: why what are you doing? And why? Uh? Well? Put Uh,
1:31:22
Speaker 1: the first thing is we're encouraging So I'm on the
1:31:25
Speaker 1: County Deer Advisory Committee and population. Uh, we have population
1:31:32
Speaker 1: issue in the county, not everywhere in the county, but uh,
1:31:35
Speaker 1: we estimated we have seventy per square mile of habitat
1:31:39
Speaker 1: in Micheland County. Uh. Some would say more than that obviously,
1:31:44
Speaker 1: some would say less than that, but I don't can.
1:31:45
Speaker 1: I'm following the science. So you know, it makes sense
1:31:50
Speaker 1: that the more of doom you have, the more interaction
1:31:52
Speaker 1: you have, the more likelihood. So let's reduced the population
1:31:57
Speaker 1: um and I've been doing that on our farm. We've
1:31:59
Speaker 1: been trying to do that on our farm for a while.
1:32:01
Speaker 1: And the reasons for one, the fewer dear you have,
1:32:04
Speaker 1: the percentages are still gonna be the same of c WG.
1:32:08
Speaker 1: But there are gonna be a few deer who are
1:32:11
Speaker 1: fewer dealing these fewer ten percent of a hundred years ten, ten,
1:32:16
Speaker 1: fifty years five, So there are fewer deer with the
1:32:21
Speaker 1: with the possibility of having a disease. That's one reasons
1:32:24
Speaker 1: for us to do it. We've always tried to kill
1:32:26
Speaker 1: more dear because of our um our habitat concerns. UM.
1:32:32
Speaker 1: We don't manage our property only for white tailed deer.
1:32:36
Speaker 1: We manage it for forest regeneration, multiple species UM. And
1:32:41
Speaker 1: we've seen detrimental effects from too many deer, you know,
1:32:45
Speaker 1: as a result, so that's reducing the population. Being on
1:32:49
Speaker 1: the County Deer Advisory Committee, we gave four antlerleist tags
1:32:54
Speaker 1: with every buck tag. Um of guys out filling for
1:32:59
Speaker 1: antlerleist tag. Swell, this guy filled tree. Um. And if
1:33:04
Speaker 1: you get a buck pig for bow, you've got four also.
1:33:07
Speaker 1: And I get a conservation patron's license. So I actually
1:33:09
Speaker 1: had a go to bamtlet of the stags if I
1:33:12
Speaker 1: wanted to use them, and I wanted to, and I
1:33:15
Speaker 1: didn't get as many as we didn't get as many
1:33:17
Speaker 1: as we've wanted to. So that's one of the things.
1:33:20
Speaker 1: So UM to reduce the population for multiple reasons, but
1:33:25
Speaker 1: from the CWD perspective, to just knock down the numbers
1:33:29
Speaker 1: to to slow the spread. So the other one, which
1:33:32
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult, is to take off those
1:33:35
Speaker 1: restrictions on shooting whatever buck you want to um and uh.
1:33:43
Speaker 1: I thought to myself opening the rifle season, when I
1:33:47
Speaker 1: saw I saw a buck, I couldn't get a shot
1:33:49
Speaker 1: at him. That excellent came in and he's a two
1:33:52
Speaker 1: and a half year old, and I thought to myself,
1:33:53
Speaker 1: if you are really gonna do this, you need to
1:33:57
Speaker 1: shoot that deer. Five years ago I had gotten run
1:33:59
Speaker 1: off the farm pursuing that here, and I would have
1:34:02
Speaker 1: been the guy running me off, you know, So why
1:34:04
Speaker 1: am I doing that? That's the year that's spreading UH,
1:34:08
Speaker 1: that is most likely to have the disease. So that
1:34:11
Speaker 1: year and a half old buck, for instance, UM you know.
1:34:16
Speaker 1: You know again, as we know dear family's dynamics, the
1:34:20
Speaker 1: dough at the end of her first year is kicking
1:34:24
Speaker 1: that buck fawn away. The doe fawn was going to
1:34:28
Speaker 1: hang around and he'd probably be a part of the
1:34:30
Speaker 1: family group. But young buck goes off to uh to
1:34:36
Speaker 1: spread his goodwill around the around those countryside and they
1:34:40
Speaker 1: are the ones who travel the furthest and so when
1:34:43
Speaker 1: you first start having uh c w D show up
1:34:47
Speaker 1: in an area, the first positives are year and a
1:34:51
Speaker 1: half two and a half year old deer. Uh and
1:34:54
Speaker 1: in the case of the southern one of three and
1:34:55
Speaker 1: a half year old deer. The two that we got
1:34:58
Speaker 1: we do m not crazy amount of monitoring with trail cameras,
1:35:02
Speaker 1: but we have trail cameras out my my buddy, my
1:35:04
Speaker 1: neighbor and I and uh, you know if we've got
1:35:07
Speaker 1: fixed R eight cameras out. We had both of those
1:35:09
Speaker 1: deer on trail cameras and they were one was two
1:35:14
Speaker 1: and a half, one was three and a half. The
1:35:15
Speaker 1: two and a half had a distinctive split on his
1:35:18
Speaker 1: g two on the left side. Never saw the deer before,
1:35:21
Speaker 1: but dad has showed up with it this year and
1:35:22
Speaker 1: a half. Well maybe not. The other one had a
1:35:25
Speaker 1: very distinctive palm nation and uh that definitely would have
1:35:30
Speaker 1: showed up in a year and a half and we
1:35:32
Speaker 1: had not seen the deer before. And we also saw
1:35:35
Speaker 1: these deer were also on cameras. Um, we have our
1:35:39
Speaker 1: farms four acres that my life and I own w thirty,
1:35:42
Speaker 1: my buddy owns forty. I controlled some more lands, so
1:35:46
Speaker 1: we controlled about a section. You know, we control about
1:35:48
Speaker 1: six d agres. And uh, these both of these deer
1:35:52
Speaker 1: came from the northeast part of the farm where we
1:35:56
Speaker 1: had him on camera and where the highest concentration of
1:36:00
Speaker 1: deer are just off of the farm. So did those deer.
1:36:05
Speaker 1: And and it's also a connect connector to the next
1:36:09
Speaker 1: big valley over um you know, so how did that
1:36:12
Speaker 1: all all happen? And it's it's are our farm was
1:36:18
Speaker 1: split by a highway. We more positives on the other
1:36:21
Speaker 1: side of the road. These two deer were they camp
1:36:24
Speaker 1: on camera and where they were shot, we're within two
1:36:26
Speaker 1: hundred yards of each other. So um, you know those
1:36:31
Speaker 1: are all things that you know are kind of entering
1:36:33
Speaker 1: into it. So we're shooting. I'm I just letting my
1:36:38
Speaker 1: guests they have a buck, take shoot whatever buck you want.
1:36:41
Speaker 1: People are still we we Uh. On Sunday, a forky
1:36:46
Speaker 1: got shot. Um. Uh the second day of the guns
1:36:50
Speaker 1: he's in a forky got shot by one of my
1:36:52
Speaker 1: legend visitors. And uh, he kind of looked at me
1:36:56
Speaker 1: and I said congratulations, and h he goes. Well, Honestly,
1:37:00
Speaker 1: I thought it was a dough when I shot it,
1:37:02
Speaker 1: because it was a pretty good poke and it was
1:37:03
Speaker 1: with a group of deer, but it was the biggest
1:37:05
Speaker 1: deer in the group, and he thought it was a dough,
1:37:06
Speaker 1: so he shot the big dough right out here. It
1:37:08
Speaker 1: was a little quarky, you know. And again five years ago,
1:37:12
Speaker 1: three years ago, two years ago, even yeah, he'd be
1:37:16
Speaker 1: wearing that sombrero. And as we say about the sombrero,
1:37:21
Speaker 1: where it once everything's forgiven, you wear it twice and
1:37:25
Speaker 1: you probably won't give a third chance to wear it.
1:37:27
Speaker 1: So uh so that's all gone. And why we're doing
1:37:32
Speaker 1: that is because we're trying because the demographic that's going
1:37:35
Speaker 1: to move it on next, or the deer that is
1:37:37
Speaker 1: most likely to have it and then move it on
1:37:39
Speaker 1: is a is a younger buck. And I can't tell
1:37:43
Speaker 1: you how much it pains me to do this. I
1:37:47
Speaker 1: don't envy your situation, I am I can imagine I've
1:37:52
Speaker 1: thought about this, like, what would I do in this situation?
1:37:54
Speaker 1: How do you how do you move forward from that?
1:37:58
Speaker 1: And you know, to take a manage principle and practice,
1:38:01
Speaker 1: even even practicing for so long and trying to see
1:38:05
Speaker 1: the benefits of that and reap the benefits of that,
1:38:07
Speaker 1: and then having something like this come in and flip
1:38:10
Speaker 1: things head over heels. Um man, that's that is UM
1:38:15
Speaker 1: kind of a worse nightmare. Now I want to read
1:38:18
Speaker 1: you something dug and get your thoughts on it. UM.
1:38:21
Speaker 1: The Quality Deer Management Association released a document that is
1:38:26
Speaker 1: they're recommended practices for deer hunters UM that are dealing
1:38:30
Speaker 1: with chronic wasting disease and UM and what I think
1:38:33
Speaker 1: everything I'm written here is is very much in line
1:38:35
Speaker 1: with what you said. They offer. They do offer one
1:38:38
Speaker 1: kind of um uh slightly different thought which makes sense
1:38:42
Speaker 1: in a different situation than yours. And I want to
1:38:44
Speaker 1: just get your thoughts on this UM. So in here
1:38:47
Speaker 1: the question asked is should we shoot most bucks at
1:38:49
Speaker 1: one half years of age to keep them from maturing?
1:38:53
Speaker 1: And the answer they provide UM. They go on to
1:38:56
Speaker 1: say that when CWD is first discovered a new area,
1:38:59
Speaker 1: initial goal include identifying prevalence and distribution of the disease
1:39:02
Speaker 1: and preventing it from spreading. In this early stage and outbreak,
1:39:06
Speaker 1: protecting any adult deer can be counterproductive to long term success.
1:39:10
Speaker 1: One CTBT is established in the deer herd. Older bucks
1:39:13
Speaker 1: are two to four times more likely to have the
1:39:16
Speaker 1: disease than younger bucks. Therefore, on paper, the best way
1:39:20
Speaker 1: to combat CDWD where it is established is to keep
1:39:22
Speaker 1: density low and the aid structure young. That means not
1:39:26
Speaker 1: allowing bucks or does to mature at all. However, in reality,
1:39:30
Speaker 1: hunters are needed to regulate deer populations, and many hunters
1:39:34
Speaker 1: staying gauge for the opportunity to pursue mature bucks. It's
1:39:38
Speaker 1: cut Amy's opinion that as long as hunters continue hunting
1:39:41
Speaker 1: shooting excuse me. As long as hunters continue hunting, shooting
1:39:45
Speaker 1: antless deer, and helping keep deer herds in check, then
1:39:48
Speaker 1: it's more beneficial to have some mature bucks in the
1:39:51
Speaker 1: population than to shoot all bucks at a young age.
1:39:54
Speaker 1: If mature bucks are scarce, some hunters will become less
1:39:57
Speaker 1: engaged and shoot fewer antless deer. Therefore, cuting maze recommendation
1:40:02
Speaker 1: in areas where CTB is established in the population is
1:40:05
Speaker 1: for hunters to harvest analyst deer to help reduce deer density.
1:40:09
Speaker 1: Continue protecting yearling bucks if you desire, but apply increased
1:40:13
Speaker 1: harvest pressure to all bucks through and a half years
1:40:15
Speaker 1: of age or older. So it sounds like the big
1:40:19
Speaker 1: thing here is Yes, it makes the most sense from
1:40:24
Speaker 1: a reducing the spread of c w d's UM standpoint,
1:40:28
Speaker 1: to kill bucks, to to reduce density, and to kill
1:40:31
Speaker 1: bucks to keep bucks from reaching maturity. That makes the
1:40:33
Speaker 1: most sense. But an even worst case in there would
1:40:37
Speaker 1: be if hunters become less engaged and just stop shooting
1:40:39
Speaker 1: deer and stop shooting dough. So they're saying, if that,
1:40:43
Speaker 1: if we need to keep a few mature bucks to
1:40:45
Speaker 1: keep this from happening, that's a lesser of two evils
1:40:48
Speaker 1: than if hunters become less engaged. Um. In your case,
1:40:52
Speaker 1: you're already on board with the fact that this needs
1:40:54
Speaker 1: to happen, so you guys are taking an aggressive approach. Um.
1:40:58
Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm saying all this four is
1:41:01
Speaker 1: I'm curious, what's your opinion on that set of recommendations
1:41:04
Speaker 1: for the general public. Does that make sense to you
1:41:06
Speaker 1: given what you're understanding in your situation too, Yes, it does. Um. Ultimately,
1:41:15
Speaker 1: what I told everybody that hunts with us is you
1:41:18
Speaker 1: get to decide. Now there's nobody deciding for you, you know,
1:41:22
Speaker 1: or me, or you're gonna deal with the wrath of
1:41:25
Speaker 1: dug or whether the here, the sondera or whatever that
1:41:27
Speaker 1: happens to be. So, but you get to make that decision.
1:41:31
Speaker 1: Is that a good recommendation? Um? You know, I'm glad
1:41:35
Speaker 1: you read that mark because I'm gonna look at that
1:41:37
Speaker 1: a little more closely. Um, what I've decided or what
1:41:41
Speaker 1: we did this year isn't etched in stone. It's this
1:41:46
Speaker 1: is this is the action, just like last year. It wasn't.
1:41:49
Speaker 1: I was like last year, just shoot every antler. Serious,
1:41:51
Speaker 1: it's a nubby buck, that's okay. Um, And to prove it,
1:41:54
Speaker 1: I shot a nubby buck right away. My brother just
1:41:59
Speaker 1: looked at But uh, the that idea makes some sense
1:42:04
Speaker 1: to me. Also, that kind of follows that attitude of
1:42:08
Speaker 1: the I factor though too, when you go, man, half
1:42:12
Speaker 1: of your act this disease? Do I only want to
1:42:15
Speaker 1: hunt him anymore? So it kind of speaks to the
1:42:18
Speaker 1: same idea. Um, I'm not going to stop hunting deer
1:42:23
Speaker 1: because of c w D. I might hunt it more aggressively.
1:42:26
Speaker 1: I can understand where someone who is um, I don't
1:42:32
Speaker 1: like the idea of testing of the possibility of throwing
1:42:36
Speaker 1: half of the deer that we kill away, throwing your
1:42:41
Speaker 1: meat away. I just but but I mean, the reality
1:42:45
Speaker 1: is if I'm going to continue to follow the CDC
1:42:49
Speaker 1: and that will health organization ideas, that's what we're probably
1:42:53
Speaker 1: head anymore. And anybody who has c d w D
1:42:56
Speaker 1: approaching them, it's just over time, it's going to get there. UM.
1:43:00
Speaker 1: I love shooting Big Bucks, and I like and I'd
1:43:05
Speaker 1: like seeling to get to that age where our farm
1:43:09
Speaker 1: is in our area and given everybody who had all
1:43:12
Speaker 1: these people who have different uh attitudes about it, my cousin,
1:43:18
Speaker 1: but I'm not worried about it at all. And I
1:43:20
Speaker 1: like shoot Big Bucks and if you're not going to
1:43:22
Speaker 1: eat the meat, you shouldn't be hunt And I'm like,
1:43:26
Speaker 1: that's your opinion, and I appreciate it, and you know,
1:43:28
Speaker 1: you do that on your land. I just think that
1:43:30
Speaker 1: everyone has to make that decision for themselves. And I
1:43:35
Speaker 1: like the population one. UM. There are experts in the
1:43:43
Speaker 1: field who say, see, it's not a population based disease,
1:43:48
Speaker 1: it's a demo and then they failed to say that
1:43:51
Speaker 1: it was demographic disease. UM, you know, spread disease. So there,
1:43:56
Speaker 1: you know, there's an argument that's made against UM population
1:44:00
Speaker 1: and declined again kind of goes back, you're shooting all
1:44:02
Speaker 1: the you're shooting those, but once those get it, we're
1:44:06
Speaker 1: not going to have enough here to reproduce. UM. I
1:44:11
Speaker 1: think q d M is hitting on the head man.
1:44:13
Speaker 1: I like that. And at the end of the day,
1:44:15
Speaker 1: you and I both know and all three of us
1:44:18
Speaker 1: know that no matter what season structure, and no matter
1:44:22
Speaker 1: how it's set up, the people who are still doing
1:44:25
Speaker 1: the management are the guys with men and women with
1:44:28
Speaker 1: bows in their hands and guns in their hands. And
1:44:30
Speaker 1: the landowner or the h or the leader of the
1:44:34
Speaker 1: group or or or that person hunting is the one
1:44:38
Speaker 1: who's making the decision as to how they're gonna how
1:44:41
Speaker 1: they're going to handle it. What I would say is,
1:44:44
Speaker 1: please get your dear tested. Please encourage your government officials
1:44:51
Speaker 1: to uh continue and expand research on this, which actually
1:44:57
Speaker 1: there's a acting Congress that was co sponsored by Representive
1:45:02
Speaker 1: round Kind, US Representative Roun Kind who's now my representative,
1:45:07
Speaker 1: UM on more funding for c w d UM research
1:45:13
Speaker 1: and very supportive of that. UM. But I think it's
1:45:20
Speaker 1: a mistake too. UM think that, and you know, and
1:45:24
Speaker 1: make your own decision about eating eating meat. But I
1:45:26
Speaker 1: think it's a mistake to say, well, we can't do
1:45:29
Speaker 1: anything about it. And there are people who are saying this, Um,
1:45:32
Speaker 1: not anybody who's listening to your show. But but we can't,
1:45:37
Speaker 1: you know, So we're just going to continue to do
1:45:40
Speaker 1: what we want to do. People are gonna make that decision,
1:45:42
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. Heck, here in Richland County,
1:45:46
Speaker 1: the hunting land is privately owned. Well, who's making the
1:45:49
Speaker 1: management decisions landowners? It's each individual landowner, you know. Um,
1:45:55
Speaker 1: But I if you're anywhere near c w D zone,
1:45:59
Speaker 1: I would I think the model that we followed up
1:46:02
Speaker 1: as it got closer, we got more, we ramped up
1:46:04
Speaker 1: our testing even and we actually demanded more testing, personally
1:46:08
Speaker 1: demanded it. Um. Uh. The data is really important for
1:46:15
Speaker 1: the scientists to have. Um. You know, there's so many
1:46:20
Speaker 1: reasons to get it tested. The thing you can make
1:46:22
Speaker 1: your own decision about to meet. We make your own
1:46:24
Speaker 1: decision about what dear you even shoot too. But I
1:46:27
Speaker 1: like the I like what I what you read there, Mark,
1:46:30
Speaker 1: and I agree with it. I mean I'm a little
1:46:32
Speaker 1: more aggressive than than that. And also in our area,
1:46:35
Speaker 1: you're not gonna I mean Friday, uh, we we were
1:46:40
Speaker 1: able to move about a dozen deer. Unfortunately we didn't
1:46:43
Speaker 1: kill any of them because the best shots that we
1:46:46
Speaker 1: had at dear we're all antlered bocks. You know. I
1:46:51
Speaker 1: work pushed some antlered box by by some friends that
1:46:55
Speaker 1: they're like, these deer came true and every one of them. Yeah,
1:47:03
Speaker 1: it was an apple the season, so you do to
1:47:04
Speaker 1: do so you know that that was that was difficult.
1:47:11
Speaker 1: Um Son, Yeah, I feel like I feel like after
1:47:17
Speaker 1: all this, I'm still at the same place I was
1:47:22
Speaker 1: um before we start chatting, which is if you don't
1:47:28
Speaker 1: have c w D now, you don't want to get
1:47:30
Speaker 1: it in your area because just just hearing your story
1:47:34
Speaker 1: of the things that you have to think about now
1:47:36
Speaker 1: and the changes in your management strategy, and I think
1:47:39
Speaker 1: I think your situation is something that we're just going
1:47:41
Speaker 1: to see happening more and more and as we as
1:47:44
Speaker 1: we go on and more people have to deal with this,
1:47:46
Speaker 1: they're going to have to make management decisions similar to
1:47:49
Speaker 1: those that you are, because I think the research is
1:47:52
Speaker 1: going to continue to show and continue to point to
1:47:54
Speaker 1: the fact that this is something we have to take seriously.
1:47:56
Speaker 1: To your point earlier, there's still are people that don't
1:48:00
Speaker 1: want to take it seriously, but I think that we're
1:48:02
Speaker 1: just going to We're going to continue seeing that that's
1:48:05
Speaker 1: just not the case. We have to take it seriously.
1:48:07
Speaker 1: And if you're going to take it seriously, it will
1:48:10
Speaker 1: require in some cases drastic changes to to how we hunt.
1:48:14
Speaker 1: And um, a lot of the things you're going through
1:48:17
Speaker 1: right now, UM, I think are going to be an
1:48:20
Speaker 1: unfortunate reality for more folks. So so my moral of
1:48:23
Speaker 1: this whole story is that if you don't have it,
1:48:27
Speaker 1: make sure that you do everything you possibly can from
1:48:29
Speaker 1: an individual standpoint to slow down the spread in your area.
1:48:33
Speaker 1: And then, as you mentioned earlier, Doug, pressure and communicate
1:48:37
Speaker 1: to your representatives, whether it be in your Game and
1:48:39
Speaker 1: Fish department or the politicians whoever it might be these
1:48:43
Speaker 1: days that are making decisions around this, to to also
1:48:46
Speaker 1: take this seriously and support those people that are taking
1:48:49
Speaker 1: it seriously. UM. That's kind of where my head is
1:48:52
Speaker 1: at after all this, Um Dan, do you have any
1:48:55
Speaker 1: final questions for Doug or thoughts on this whole thing.
1:48:58
Speaker 1: You've been quite over there, feel like you're just stewing
1:49:01
Speaker 1: and worrying, UM, because I know you you have concerns
1:49:05
Speaker 1: about this too. It's just something that we all need
1:49:08
Speaker 1: to be aware of, man, and and uh stay up today.
1:49:12
Speaker 1: You know, I've mentioned this in uh one of my
1:49:16
Speaker 1: own podcasts, that it's something that we have to pay attention.
1:49:22
Speaker 1: You know. Deer hunting these days is threatened from all
1:49:26
Speaker 1: different angles, whether it's disease or laws or or you
1:49:30
Speaker 1: know whatever. And we have to educate ourselves as hunters.
1:49:34
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not just about big bucks anymore.
1:49:38
Speaker 1: It goes far beyond that. Yeah, well, Doug, uh do
1:49:43
Speaker 1: you have any final thoughts? I was going to say
1:49:45
Speaker 1: there was one more thing. That's there's a group out
1:49:47
Speaker 1: there called the c w D Alliance and you can
1:49:50
Speaker 1: google them and find them, and it's everyone from White
1:49:54
Speaker 1: Tails Unlimited to Rocky Out and Out Foundation or involved
1:49:58
Speaker 1: with that, and they're trying to UM put information out.
1:50:03
Speaker 1: I posted on my Instagram a photo of it a
1:50:05
Speaker 1: while ago of their their page. That's a good source.
1:50:10
Speaker 1: But I'd also say if you want to follow what's
1:50:12
Speaker 1: going on in Wisconsin, UM, even though we're we need
1:50:17
Speaker 1: more political strength, I guess to do more about it.
1:50:20
Speaker 1: The c w D, the d n R c w
1:50:23
Speaker 1: D website is a real interesting UM source of information.
1:50:29
Speaker 1: Um So those are two places that I would uh
1:50:34
Speaker 1: suggest that you go great. Well, Doug, I appreciate you
1:50:38
Speaker 1: sharing this with us. Um. It's it's one thing to
1:50:42
Speaker 1: have people tell you about hypothetical risks or concerns about CWD.
1:50:46
Speaker 1: It's another to hear the story of someone who's actually
1:50:48
Speaker 1: dealing with it right now and how it's impacting their
1:50:50
Speaker 1: actual hunting experiences. UM. So I just appreciate you sharing
1:50:55
Speaker 1: that and letting us know what's going on in your head,
1:50:58
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do where things are headed. I
1:51:01
Speaker 1: found it helpful. Um and uh, And I know it's
1:51:04
Speaker 1: a bummer of course for your actual deer hunting, But
1:51:07
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, I do think that you are
1:51:10
Speaker 1: achieving something positive here by at least sharing your experience
1:51:14
Speaker 1: with others. I think that will help other people. So
1:51:16
Speaker 1: thank you, Doug. Yeah, well you're welcome. You know. One
1:51:20
Speaker 1: last thing that I would say about that is yesterday,
1:51:23
Speaker 1: it was the last day of our season, and and uh,
1:51:27
Speaker 1: I was out at the farm, and I was taking
1:51:28
Speaker 1: care of the cattle, and I was doing you know,
1:51:30
Speaker 1: some farm activities, and I look up and there's a
1:51:34
Speaker 1: dough and two fonts working across this bowl behind the barn,
1:51:39
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm like, well, there we go. Um, And
1:51:42
Speaker 1: I caught myself just watching them with the eye of
1:51:47
Speaker 1: appreciation and then thought, oh, but you want to reduce
1:51:52
Speaker 1: the curd, you need to go and get your rifle
1:51:54
Speaker 1: and shoot that door or one of those fawns. And
1:51:57
Speaker 1: by the time that I by the time I didn't
1:51:59
Speaker 1: got right went into the farmhouse, got rifle and then
1:52:02
Speaker 1: got up to where I could have got a shot
1:52:04
Speaker 1: at him. They were not in a position or situation
1:52:07
Speaker 1: where I could have shot at him, and I what
1:52:08
Speaker 1: didn't want to start chasing him at that point because
1:52:11
Speaker 1: it was really late in the day. But so I
1:52:14
Speaker 1: stopped there and sort of appreciated the the beauty of
1:52:18
Speaker 1: those animals and that some going down behind them, and
1:52:23
Speaker 1: the whole situation. And uh, I think it was at
1:52:27
Speaker 1: that moment mark that I settled in my that I
1:52:29
Speaker 1: made peace with the whole thing. You know that there's
1:52:32
Speaker 1: still the coolest animal out there, and uh, and I
1:52:36
Speaker 1: just and uh and I love them and I love
1:52:38
Speaker 1: it and uh, it's unfortunate this is going on, but
1:52:42
Speaker 1: when you can, you know, I got to that point anyway, Yeah,
1:52:46
Speaker 1: I think That's a great way to end this conversation
1:52:49
Speaker 1: because you're right there, there's challenges, but there's still a
1:52:53
Speaker 1: lot to be appreciated and enjoyed. And I guess that's
1:52:57
Speaker 1: kind of the beauty of deer hunting. There's a lot
1:52:59
Speaker 1: of eight things. There's some challenging things. We have our
1:53:02
Speaker 1: ups and downs, but they keep us going year after
1:53:06
Speaker 1: year getting excited about them. And uh, and that's a
1:53:08
Speaker 1: good thing. Here's to another year deer hunting, Yes, sir,
1:53:13
Speaker 1: And that will do it for episode number one, nine
1:53:17
Speaker 1: six of the Wired Hunt podcast, and we'll wrap things
1:53:20
Speaker 1: up here pretty quickly. Just want to give a big
1:53:22
Speaker 1: thank you to our partners who help make this show
1:53:25
Speaker 1: a reality. So big thank you to sit a gear
1:53:28
Speaker 1: Yettie Coolers, Matthew's Archery, Mayven Optics, the White Tail Institute
1:53:32
Speaker 1: of North America, Trophy Ridge and Hunt Terror Maps, and
1:53:36
Speaker 1: most importantly, thank you for listening. Appreciate your time, Appreciate
1:53:41
Speaker 1: you tuning in all of two thousand seventeen, and hopefully
1:53:44
Speaker 1: we can do things even better here in two thousand eighteen.
1:53:47
Speaker 1: Lots of exciting news on the horizon. Can't wait to
1:53:50
Speaker 1: share with you some new things we've got going on,
1:53:53
Speaker 1: and until next time, if you are still hunting, I
1:53:56
Speaker 1: hope you're having some fun out there, hope you have
1:53:58
Speaker 1: some good luck, and until him next time, stay Wired
1:54:02
Speaker 1: to Hunt m