Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #212 Bedtime Blues

Transcript

#212 Bedtime Blues · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Answers now, for good health and for good sleep, going
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: to bed at about the same time every night.
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  Speaker 1: It's really important. And now here's the stars of our show,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: my mom and dad. Hello.
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  Speaker 2: We are Justin and Kylie Coles and I've got a
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  Speaker 2: PhD in psychology and have written six books about raising
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: happy families, Kylie Mom to our six daughters and Qualifications
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: in early Childcare.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, we got another awesome review.
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  Speaker 1: Love those reviews. Apple podcasts is where you leave them?
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: This is from I like to draw.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: With an E R on the air. I see that now,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I like to draw it? Like does that mean I
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: just don't like MESSI stick at all in the drawer.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I love the names of people when they leave these reviews.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I just write Justin. But obviously some people are more creative.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: That a bit more creative than you.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, so top team, five star review. You both offer
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: such great insights and encouragement As a woman. I especially
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: enjoy hearing from Kylie.
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  Speaker 1: Is so good.
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  Speaker 3: You make a great team.
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  Speaker 1: Six girls. I don't know how you do it. Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: We don't know either. We ask ourselves all the time,
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  Speaker 1: but they're pretty good. That's so nice.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I like to draw thank you for the five star
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: review if you're enjoying the podcast. By the way, those
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: five star ratings and reviews help people to find the
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: podcast and make their families happier like yours is.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So thank you for sending those reviews through.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Now I got to say something, and I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: sound like I'm winging and whining a little bit, and
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  Speaker 2: I hate to be the wingy winer mona and mumbler
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  Speaker 2: and murmurer, but geez, I'm tired.
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  Speaker 1: And if you don't look much.
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  Speaker 3: Better, I've got my eyes closed.
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  Speaker 1: Epness, I'm as I'm saying it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking you look like you would rather be asleep,
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  Speaker 2: like literally would prefer to be sleeping.
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  Speaker 1: Just close your eyes, well they're already closed. Just listen
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  Speaker 1: for a moment. How are you feeling? Now, give me
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  Speaker 1: a pillow.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I listened to this stuff and I
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  Speaker 2: don't like the bells and the chimey sort of thing.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think that would tell me to sleep. I
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  Speaker 2: think that would aggravate me. Not that I think Guns
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  Speaker 2: and Roses is going to help.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Me to go to sleep either.
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  Speaker 2: But this is the this is the bedtime lullaby sort
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  Speaker 2: of stuff that you find on YouTube for the kids
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  Speaker 2: when they won't go to sleep. What is it with
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: our kids? They just won't go to sleep. When they
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: do go to sleep, then they wake up. And I
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: thought we were past that. You know, we've gone through
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the baby stage. We've gone through the toddlers stage where.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: They they follow you around the bed.
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  Speaker 3: They become a wedge roll over and they kind of
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: wedge themselves.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Until you actually it's literally there were three in the
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  Speaker 2: bed and the little one said roll over, and then
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: mum or dad rolled out of the bed. So last night,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: our six year old Jomy, she's nearly seven, for goodness sakes,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: she's been sleeping through the night for years, and she
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: decided that our bed was better.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because she often will actually pass
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: three other toilets to get to our bedroom, but she
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  Speaker 3: has to go to the toilet in our room, and
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  Speaker 3: that's why she ends up.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: In bed with us.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: To add some clarification here, so people always say, my goodness,
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  Speaker 2: you have six daughters.
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  Speaker 1: How many toilets have you got? How many bathrooms have
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  Speaker 1: you got?
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  Speaker 2: We have sufficient bathrooms for our needs because we have
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  Speaker 2: so many. But yeah, she goes, she comes to the
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  Speaker 2: third toilet in the house so that she can use
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  Speaker 2: our en suite bathroom. And then she's walked from one
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  Speaker 2: end of the house to the other because her bedroom
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  Speaker 2: is literally at the other end of the house.
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  Speaker 3: Done what she needs to do, and she can't be
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  Speaker 3: bother going back to her bed.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm going to go all the way back to
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  Speaker 1: my bedroom. That was a long walk.
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to stay right here. So she gets in
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  Speaker 2: the middle of us, and we're just just struggling a bit.
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  Speaker 2: So I thought it would be useful to have a
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  Speaker 2: chat about just getting kids to go to sleep. Now,
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  Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about babies. We know that
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  Speaker 2: some of you are really struggling with that and it
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: is exhausting, And we could easily do a whole podcast
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: on the whole crying it out thing and why we
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing that and what's.
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  Speaker 1: Better for our children and what's better for us and
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  Speaker 1: for our well being. Not going to go there.
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  Speaker 3: Let's just focus on kids between two to twelve.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, we can do that. I remember with
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: when our kids were two three, four years of age.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes they wouldn't stay in the cot or
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  Speaker 2: stay in their bed when they moved up to a bed,
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  Speaker 2: and you or I would end up laying on the
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  Speaker 2: floor beside them with our arms sort of reaching up
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: into the cot or reaching up onto the bed, and
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  Speaker 2: you kind of get that dead arm after a while
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  Speaker 2: because you're just padding and padding and padding and singing
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: them songs.
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  Speaker 1: So they fall asleep.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Sometimes. I think, if I remember correctly, you would come
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: and wake me up because I was I'd fallen asleep
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  Speaker 3: putting the babies.
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  Speaker 2: What do you mean sometimes, if I remember correctly, I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: think I did that about three weeks ago when you
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: were laying on the.
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  Speaker 1: Carpet in Emily's room.
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  Speaker 2: I think were you reading a story to her and
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  Speaker 2: you actually fell asleep in the middle of the story.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've done that so many times.
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  Speaker 2: And so I'll be laying there and I'm laying on
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  Speaker 2: my back with the book sort of resting on my chest,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: on my belly, and next thing, you know, one of
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the kids going dad. And that's only at like seven
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: forty five at night. What happens to us we turned
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: thirty or forty?
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  Speaker 3: Can hear yourself starting this, the words gather and the
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  Speaker 3: page is slowly just.
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  Speaker 2: I've looked at the kids a few times. I'm like,
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  Speaker 2: I'm so tired, I can't read this.
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  Speaker 1: And that don't care. They're like, read it, read it
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  Speaker 1: on my wall page, just pa so hard. And if
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: it's Emily, it's one more book. Gosh, that kid, Where
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  Speaker 1: do they get all this energy from?
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  Speaker 2: Like something actually did happen to us when we turned
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  Speaker 2: like I don't know, thirty thirty five and nine o'clock
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  Speaker 2: at night became late, Like that's a big night. I'm
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  Speaker 2: ready for bed at seven forty five, eight o'clock, eight thirty.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's called six kids.
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  Speaker 1: You reckon, That's what I talked to.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe it's just called parenting. I talk to parents all
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  Speaker 2: the time. We've only got one or two, and they
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: feel the same. Maybe it's just part of the human condition.
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  Speaker 2: It's it's really tough. But I want to talk about
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: this thing that. So when Emily comes and gets into
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the bed, or when any of our kids have done that,
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  Speaker 2: We've done every We've tried every single thing that we
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  Speaker 2: could think of to make it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we carry them back to the.
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  Speaker 2: Bed, hop in their bed with them done all that
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  Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and sometimes it doesn't make any difference.
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  Speaker 2: They still end up in your bed and you still
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  Speaker 2: get no sleep. And my whole thing now, even with
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  Speaker 2: Emily at the age of six or seven, is I
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  Speaker 2: just get out of bed because she's in bed, and
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  Speaker 2: I go and get into her bed because she's happy sleeping,
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  Speaker 2: and I'll sleep anywhere at two o'clock in the morning
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  Speaker 2: once this has happened, and I think that might actually
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  Speaker 2: be one of the best tips for parents is just
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  Speaker 2: if they come and get into your bed, just get out.
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  Speaker 2: Just go and get into their bed and stay there,
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  Speaker 2: and when you wake up in the morning, everything will
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  Speaker 2: be fine.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone will slept well.
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  Speaker 2: And some parents will be like some people that I'll
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  Speaker 2: talk to are like, yeah, but what if you know,
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  Speaker 2: it kind of disturbs your intimate moments.
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  Speaker 1: Doesn't it. And I'm kind of like, who's being intimate
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  Speaker 1: at two o'clock?
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  Speaker 2: Like, you know, you get that out of the way
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  Speaker 2: early and then you go to sleep. If the kids
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  Speaker 2: are interrupting your sleep, just go and sleep somewhere else.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 3: I have had lots of friends over the years who've
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  Speaker 3: actually converted their children's beds into queen size beds for
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  Speaker 3: that exactly. Trying to squeeze into the toddler bed is
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  Speaker 3: not so fun.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I think I've fallen asleep in a cot
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  Speaker 2: more than once next to a baby who or a
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  Speaker 2: toddler who wouldn't go to sleep. Hey, we should actually
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  Speaker 2: talk about how to get kids to go to sleep.
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  Speaker 1: There is some science around this. Can we do that? Sure?
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  Speaker 1: Sounds great, I'll do that right after break. It's the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: of discipline. There's a webinar to help parents set limits
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: families dot com dot au slash shop.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now. And we have
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: been talking about the dilemma, the single most hands down
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: challenging thing for parents. I think I say that every
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: week with a new topic.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Don't I challenges every single part of it. It's just
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  Speaker 1: it's it's tiring, and we are talking about.
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  Speaker 3: Getting our kids to sleep, and this is a big
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  Speaker 3: challenge for parents.
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  Speaker 1: And there's science to help us.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, there's science, all right, you just get the science
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  Speaker 3: out of the way now.
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't know, because this is like, if there's
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: genuine scientific discoveries that can help us to make this work,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: this is much better than just making it up as
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: you go along, right, Okay, okay, okay, So where do
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  Speaker 2: you want to start?
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  Speaker 3: Okay, let's start with something really simple. When is the
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: best time to put our kids to bed?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: So the answer to that is it depends, right, Yes,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: it depends on how old the child is. It depends
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: on what time they woke up, It depends on how
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: physically active they were during that day, what they've been eating, like,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: it depends on any conditions that they might have. That's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: actually not a very simple question. But here's what we
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: can generally say. Younger children should go to bed earlier.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Older children are going to go to bed later. That's
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: what happens. And part of that is because of the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: chemicals in our brain and body.
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  Speaker 3: So where do adults fit into this, because I swear
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  Speaker 3: I go to sleep before.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we're just talking about it. We're just talking about
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: getting the kids to go to sleep. Okay, we'll deal
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: with that another time. We go to sleep once they're asleep,
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  Speaker 2: unless they're teenagers, and that's when we just give up
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  Speaker 2: and go to sleep.
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  Speaker 3: I wonder we're so tired all the time.
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  Speaker 2: So there's this thing called a circadian rhythm, and what
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: it essentially means is that our body wakes up when
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  Speaker 2: the light comes up and it wants to go to
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  Speaker 2: sleep when.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: The light goes down.
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  Speaker 2: Our body as the light goes down and as nighttime arrives,
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  Speaker 2: creates this hormone, this neurotransmitter called melotonin. And what melotonin does,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: it's like a chemical that helps us to start to
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: feel sleepy. That's why you start rubbing your eyes, you
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: start yawning. That's what the kids do. Melotonin is good
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  Speaker 2: because it helps us to want to go to sleep.
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  Speaker 2: Children produce it, grown up to produce it. Teenagers produce it,
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  Speaker 2: but they produce it about an hour and a half
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  Speaker 2: to two hours later than children or adults, which is
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: why teenagers are still go go go at nine o'clock. Well,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: where we've got bags under our eyes, the size of
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: the size of Antarctica, the size a continent. But basically,
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  Speaker 2: the best time to go to sleep is when you're tired.
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  Speaker 2: That's really the critical thing. And the other thing that
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  Speaker 2: science shows is that we tend to get tired at
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: about the same time most of the time, and so
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: children should go to bed around about thirty minutes, within
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: about thirty minutes of their bedtime consistently. For good health
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: and for good sleep, going to bed at about the
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: same time every night's really important.
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  Speaker 3: So this goes back to our conversation that we've had
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: plenty of times in our house about routine.
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  Speaker 2: Routine is everything. Yeah, so if the kids normally go
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  Speaker 2: to bed at let's say a little and you're going
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to put them to bed at about six thirty, then
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you don't want them up any later than seven, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you don't want to try to put them to bed
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: any earlier than six. Just keep it as closer. You
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: don't want to be overly rigid, because rigidity creates stress
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and anxiety, which actually reduces the likelihood of sleep. But
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you just want to get a consistent bedtime and stick
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: with it.
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  Speaker 3: And I guess that really makes sense because we'll all
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: have been in the position where you have a child
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: who is well past their bedtime. You know something's come up.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: We're at an event and we've got our children out
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: for a couple of hours longer than we need to,
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  Speaker 3: and you'd think, because they're so tired, that they're just
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: going to fall asleep, and yet the process seems to
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: take so much longer.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we call it being overtired. And for some reason,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: when we're over time, we've got our second wind and
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: we're ready to go to midnight.
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  Speaker 3: There's this thing called sleep hygiene. Yeah, yeah, I've heard
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it kind of bandied around a little bit, you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Can you talk to us a little bit about that.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So sleep hygiene essentially is how you're going to set
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: up the room so that your child can go to sleep.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Are you going to have it light or dark, You're
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: going to have it loud or quiet? Are you going
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: to have it cold or warm?
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  Speaker 2: And there's actually some factors in sleep hygiene that we
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: know work pretty well for most kids. So we know
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that the darker the room, the better. But some children
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: feel a little bit intimidated by the darkness, and so
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: having a small night light can be helpful. But the
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: dimmer the light, the better. Eyes will adjust in the
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: dark and pretty soon that very dim light will be okay.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: But the darker the better, The quieter the better. Now,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I know that's a bit controversial because sometimes people will
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: be like, no, no, no, The kids need to get used
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: to the fact that there's going to be noise, and
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: they need to learn how to sleep through the noise.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: But we've got to help them to do that in
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: a You can't just go and crank up the stereo
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: and expect that they're going to sleep through it if
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: they've never been exposed to noise before. So we want
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: to make sure that the room is as quiet as
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: is reasonable. And if it's too cold or too hot,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: no one sleeps well either. So just their basic sleep
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: hygiene ideas. You've done plenty of this. I mean, I've
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: been traveling for years and running workshops all over the country.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: What do you do on those nights when that child
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: just will not go to bed.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: As parents, we're usually looking for a quick fix, especially
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: when we're exhausted. We just want the kids to do
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: what we've told them to do and just do it
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: without hassle.
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  Speaker 2: Especially when you can look at them and be like,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: you are so tired, kiddo, You've got to go to sleep.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: But I think that sometimes we kind of forget in
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: the moment because we ourselves are at breaking point exhaustion
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: and just feeling depleted. Sometimes we're actually asking our kids
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: to grow up so much faster than they need to.
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  Speaker 3: And so I don't know if this You know, this
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: isn't going to work for everybody. I totally acknowledge that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: But for me, I just look at the fact that
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to have this five year old for
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: very much longer, or my two year old. It's going
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: to disappear quicker than I want it to, and so
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: if they need that extra cuddle, I'm going to give
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: them that extra cuddle. And like we've already stated, there
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: are many times where You've had to come in and
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: pull me up off the carpet because I've fallen asleep
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: next to them. And as hard as it's been and
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: as exhausting as it's been, I wouldn't change a thing
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: because those experiences help to build relationships with my children
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  Speaker 3: in a way that I can't find outside of those experiences.
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  Speaker 3: There's just something something so beautiful about those nighttime cuddles
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: and snuggles when there's just softness, there's softness in both
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: you and your child.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that aligns with what I would point to
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in the research, and that is that the more stress
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: we create over this situation, the harder it is.
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  Speaker 3: It really reminds me of the quote that we used
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: on Tuesday when we were talking about book club that says,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: responsive parenting always has been and the rock of which
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: resilience rests. And I look at all of the times
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: that we've been able to respond to our children's needs
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: for that extra cuddle or that extra story, or that
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: you know, just need for comfort in the middle of
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: the night. I have to believe that we're doing good things.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling relaxed just listening to you.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: When I look at the research, it really suggests that
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: we need to reduce stress. We want to do whatever
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: we can to make bedtime a comforting and secure experience
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: for our children. And we do that best not by
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: hassling them and pushing them and conjoling them and coercing
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: them into bed and saying you need to go to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: sleep now, but by making it a place where they
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: feel good to be with.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Us and we feel good to be with them.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: It's those hugs and those quiet moments where there's no pressure.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we just recognize the dishwashing might not happen tonight.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna lay with this child until they feel safe.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: That's the way I go. Doesn't always work out that
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: way in real life. I'll turn the music off because
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: sometimes it doesn't always go like that. But when we
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: can get it to be like that, when we can
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: change our mindset, that's when we get the best results.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Well, I hope we haven't put you to sleep while
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: we've been talking about helping our children sleep today, but
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: hopefully there's something in here that will just resonate with
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: you and help to make your sleep time more calm
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: and connected.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we really hope that you've enjoyed the podcast and
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: that's been helpful if you do enjoy the podcast. As
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: we mentioned at the outset, those five star reviews really
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: make a difference. You can review wherever you get your podcasts,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and it helps others to make their families happier. Thank
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you so much as always to Craig Bruce, our executive producer,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: and Justin rule On from Bridge Media, our producer. Really
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: great for you guys, and if you'd like more information
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: about making your family happier, especially the membership where book
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: club happens each month. Get all the info at happy
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: families dot com dot au