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Transcript

Rethinking Turnover · The Science of Leading

• 0:00
  Hey everyone-welcome back to The Science of Leading!
• 0:02
  I'm Claire Monroe, and I am, as always,
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  sitting across the mic from the legend himself,
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  Mr.
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  Edwin Carrington.
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  Edwin...
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  how's today treating you?
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  Good to be here,
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  Claire.
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  I'm feeling well.
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  And today's topic...
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  it's one I've seen come up again and again over the years-why employees
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  really leave.
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  It's almost never the reason leaders think it is.
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  Nooo,
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  it's not.
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  And honestly?
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  It took me forever to learn that.
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  I remember this one guy-superstar employee.
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  Like, top five percent.
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  Out of the blue, he hands in his notice,
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  and I just...
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  assumed it was money.
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  I think I even said something like,
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  "Well, guess he got a better offer."But a few months later,
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  someone told me he'd felt completely burned out.
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  Said he felt invisible.
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  And I just...
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  I'd missed it.
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  Totally missed it.
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  That story, Claire-it's classic.
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  I hear it all the time.
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  Leaders default to compensation because it's visible,
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  it's clean.
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  But honestly?
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  If that were the whole picture,
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  retention would be easy.
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  We've seen the data-Wellhub,
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  NetSuite, Indeed-they've all shown it: pay matters,
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  yes.
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  But the deeper drivers?
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  They're more human.
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  Role fit.
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  Cultural alignment.
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  Management style.
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  If those are off,
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  no bonus is going to save it.
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  Yeah,
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  and I was reading this breakdown-I think it was NetSuite?-about voluntary
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  vs.
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  involuntary turnover.
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  And like...
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  in both cases, people were bailing because the job wasn't what they thought
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  it'd be.
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  Or the culture felt wrong.
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  Oh-and there was that stat: almost a third
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  of people leave in the first 90 days.
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  Which is wild.
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  It is.
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  And it tracks.
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  Another big piece?
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  The manager relationship.
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  Gallup's been saying it for years-the connection between an employee
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  and their manager is one of the strongest predictors of engagement.
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  So
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  if that relationship is strained-or just nonexistent?
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  You'll feel it long before someone brings up salary.
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  Yeah...
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  and culture.
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  I mean, it just keeps coming up.
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  Like even from what we've seen at OAD,
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  or just out in the wild-when someone doesn't feel like they belong?
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  Or like their values clash with the company's?
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  That clock starts ticking.
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  I
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  used to brush that off, honestly.
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  Like, "Oh, she just wants more money." But looking back?
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  That was just the excuse.
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  You're not alone,
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  Claire.
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  It's a common trap.
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  The truth is-misfit,
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  lack of growth, weak culture-those are quiet signals.
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  They don't show
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  up on a spreadsheet.
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  But if you scratch beneath the surface of chronic
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  turnover, those are almost always the culprits.
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  So yeah,
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  if anyone listening is hearing alarm bells right now...
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  just to sum it up?
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  Turnover isn't just about the paycheck.
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  It's about whether the job fits,
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  whether the culture feels right,
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  and whether your manager actually sees you.
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  Which-yeah-that's a much bigger
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  deal than "let's add a ping pong table."Okay so...
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  Edwin-riddle me this.
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  Why are we still seeing companies go all-in on perks
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  and pizza Fridays when turnover hasn't budged?
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  That's the paradox.
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  It's
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  easier-safer even-for organizations to throw perks at the problem.
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  But
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  here's the thing: people want meaning.
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  They want work that matters, leaders who listen,
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  a culture that actually reflects who they are.
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  You can't keep layering
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  snacks and bonuses on top of misalignment and expect people to stay.
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  Totally.
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  And it's not that those things are bad,
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  right?
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  Like-free lunch?
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  Love that for me.
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  But I worked with a company once that rolled out this
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  huge wellbeing initiative-yoga,
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  lunch, plants everywhere.
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  Looked great on paper.
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  But when I talked to people?
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  They were like, "Yeah, I'm still not getting feedback.
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  I have no idea how to move up."So the vibe was: nice...
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  but not enough.
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  Exactly.
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  If the foundation's unstable-no role clarity,
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  no feedback loop, no sense of future-then perks feel like window dressing.
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  Some
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  of the companies that have really moved the needle?
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  They've gone deep.
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  Trader Joe's,
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  for example, doubled down on recognition,
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  real talk, development conversations.
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  Turnover dropped not because of
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  the extras, but because people felt seen.
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  That's the part leaders don't
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  want to hear, right?
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  Culture eats perks for breakfast.
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  And I get it-fixing
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  culture or building real development pathways takes work.
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  So Edwin,
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  why do you think so many leaders shy away from the deeper stuff?
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  Is it...
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  fear?
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  Laziness?
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  Habit?
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  Some of all three, honestly.
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  But mostly?
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  It's because pay is quantifiable.
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  It's easier to approve a raise than
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  to unpack team dynamics or train managers to lead better.
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  But here's what
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  the research shows-when you actually tailor roles,
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  support individual motivators,
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  and listen?
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  That's when things shift.
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  Companies that invest in mentorship,
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  internal mobility, even honest exit interviews...
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  they see real change.
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  Not because they paid more.
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  But because they understood more.
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  Which ties back to so many of our other
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  episodes.
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  Like-once you stop treating turnover like a symptom and actually
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  get to the source, that's where the magic happens.
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  Exactly.
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  Real retention
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  is strategy.
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  Not stickers and slogans-it's consistent communication,
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  intentional culture, and leadership that actually leads.
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  Alright,
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  let's get practical.
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  Edwin-what actually works if a company wants to reduce turnover for real?
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  Like-how
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  does something like OAD's assessments actually help,
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  day to day?
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  This is where science gets real.
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  Tools like behavioral assessments
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  help you move past what's on the paper-beyond CVs and credentials-and
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  get to how someone's wired.
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  You get insight into what motivates them,
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  how they communicate, what kind of environment they'll thrive in.
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  And
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  that helps you design roles and teams that actually fit.
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  It's proactive,
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  not reactive.
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  And that doesn't stop after someone's hired,
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  right?
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  Like-I think a lot of managers make the hire,
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  and then...
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  it's like, "Okay, good luck!"But the real work is checking in-having
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  those conversations about alignment,
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  expectations, growth.
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  Which I know can feel awkward.
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  Especially if you realize there's a mismatch.
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  It can be uncomfortable.
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  But it's necessary.
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  I've seen organizations completely turn things around
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  just by building that habit.
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  There was one mid-sized company we worked
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  with-turnover was a mess.
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  We brought in assessments,
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  trained managers on regular check-ins-not annual reviews,
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  monthly conversations.
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  People started opening up.
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  And within a year, turnover had dropped by almost half.
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  Because they finally
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  felt seen.
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  Supported.
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  And clear on what came next.
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  That's huge.
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  Okay-so if I'm a manager listening,
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  what's my action plan?
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  Like-give me the cheat sheet.
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  Number one-interview
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  for fit, not just skills.
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  Use tools to get deeper.
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  Number two-create a regular feedback rhythm.
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  Not just when things go wrong,
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  but to celebrate strengths.
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  Number three-bring employees into the culture
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  conversation.
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  Let them shape it with you.
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  And number four-be real about career paths.
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  Even if there's no promotion right away,
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  clarity builds trust.
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  Yes.
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  Love that.
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  Because the science isn't,
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  like...
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  magic.
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  It's just intentionality.
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  Use the right tools.
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  Keep the conversations going.
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  And stop looking for one-size-fits-all fixes.
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  Exactly.
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  And if you're wondering
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  how to start putting that into action-OAD's tools are a great way in.
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  You
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  can test them out for free at o-a-d-dot-a-i.
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  It's a simple way to bring
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  more clarity and alignment into your hiring-and keep the right people
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  longer.
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  That's the goal, right?
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  Alright Edwin-thank you for another brain-expanding
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  convo.
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  I'm walking away with, like...
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  a to-do list for my soul, honestly.
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  Ha!
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  Well, that's the idea.
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  Small steps,
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  wide eyes-and always dig deeper than the obvious.
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  We hope you all got
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  something out of today's episode.
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  Head over to OAD.
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  ai for more resources-and
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  keep listening.
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  Edwin, next time?
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  Next time,
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  Claire.
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  Be well, everyone.
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  See you soon,
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  everybody!