Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 160+ Miles Of Grit: Des Linden Talks Her Desert Ultramarathon, the Business Of Being An Athlete & The Power Of the Pivot

Transcript

160+ Miles Of Grit: Des Linden Talks Her Desert Ultramarathon, the Business Of Being An Athlete & The Power Of the Pivot · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: You're always in process. But I feel like people just
0:02
Speaker 1: see an arrival and they're like, oh, that's so amazing,
0:06
Speaker 1: like that just kind of came out of nowhere, and
0:08
Speaker 1: then they have that same mentality in their own lives, like, no,
0:11
Speaker 1: you've built these tools and you've put this skill set together.
0:15
Speaker 1: But I think people often miss that.
0:32
Speaker 2: What's going on?
0:33
Speaker 3: Emily Body here, you are listening to another episode of Hurdle,
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Speaker 3: a podcast featuring the mindset, secrets, and true stories of
0:39
Speaker 3: the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, empowering you
0:44
Speaker 3: to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life and of course,
0:47
Speaker 3: conquer your own hurdles.
0:50
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, Thank you.
0:51
Speaker 3: Everyone for the consistent positive feedback on the running theme
1:00
Speaker 3: season twenty one. I'm really excited to kick things off
1:03
Speaker 3: today with the one and only two time Olympian Boston
1:08
Speaker 3: Marathon champion, someone who completely redefines what it means to
1:12
Speaker 3: test your limits, my friend Des Linden. Now, if you
1:16
Speaker 3: have been keeping up with Des lately, you know she
1:19
Speaker 3: just crossed off a massive, mind boggling milestone.
1:24
Speaker 2: She traded her usual Michigan.
1:27
Speaker 3: Roads for the Sahara Desert to take on the legendary
1:31
Speaker 3: marathon des Sabu II.
1:34
Speaker 2: Every time I say that.
1:35
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm saying it wrong, and we talk
1:37
Speaker 3: about that in today's episode, The Marathon Itself MDS, a grueling,
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Speaker 3: self supported multi stage race spanning one hundred and sixty
1:46
Speaker 3: seven miles across some of the most brutal terrain on Earth.
1:51
Speaker 3: In this episode, Does takes us directly inside her tent,
1:54
Speaker 3: sharing what it's like to survive on grit, manage endless blisters,
1:59
Speaker 3: and maintain in a positive mindset when you are literally
2:02
Speaker 3: running away from your comfort zone. We also dive into
2:05
Speaker 3: her incredible spring season, from the heat of the desert
2:09
Speaker 3: straight to the starting lines of the Boston and London
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Speaker 3: Marathons back to back to back, and what it's like
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Speaker 3: to shift from racing at the elite level to running
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Speaker 3: in the masses, whether you're facing a literal or metaphorical
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Speaker 3: desert in your own life right now. Does This perspective
2:26
Speaker 3: on staying out of negotiation mode when things get tough
2:31
Speaker 3: is exactly the spark you need. Make sure you're following
2:35
Speaker 3: along with Hurdle over on social It's over at Hurdle Podcast.
2:37
Speaker 3: You can also check out iHeart Woman's Sports over at
2:40
Speaker 3: iHeart Woman's Sports and Me over at Emily Abadi. Listen
2:44
Speaker 3: to Hurdle with Emily a Body on the iHeartRadio app,
2:46
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And one
2:50
Speaker 3: last little bit of housekeeping, Hurdle could use some new reviews,
2:54
Speaker 3: So wherever you are listening to this podcast, go on
2:58
Speaker 3: ahead read it. Review, write something nice, write what you
3:01
Speaker 3: love about the show. It means the absolute world to me.
3:06
Speaker 3: With that, let's get to it. Let's get it's a hurdling.
3:19
Speaker 2: Today. I am sitting down with Des Lindon.
3:22
Speaker 3: She's a two time Olympian, twenty eighteen Boston Marathon champion,
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Speaker 3: longtime friend of the show, good friend of mine.
3:28
Speaker 2: Welcome to Hurdle, DOZ. How are we?
3:30
Speaker 1: I'm doing great? Thanks for having me always excited.
3:33
Speaker 3: My gosh, it's it's been a while in that we've
3:37
Speaker 3: like yapped for the show, but like with like very
3:40
Speaker 3: specific parameters over the last two years. It's been a
3:44
Speaker 3: minute since you and I have been able to like
3:45
Speaker 3: have a free flowing conversation.
3:48
Speaker 1: The guardrails are off. Let's see where this goes. Let's
3:50
Speaker 1: where this exciting.
3:52
Speaker 2: Let's see where it goes.
3:53
Speaker 3: Okay, I know I just asked you, like casually, how
3:56
Speaker 3: are you doing? But I really do want a level
3:59
Speaker 3: set on a real side, how are you doing?
4:02
Speaker 2: Really?
4:03
Speaker 3: A month and a half removed from London, finally back
4:05
Speaker 3: in your own environment, how does it feel?
4:09
Speaker 2: Really good?
4:10
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm happy with how all of April went.
4:13
Speaker 1: I thought it was productive. I learned a lot, got
4:16
Speaker 1: to do a new challenge and yeah, and I'm healthy
4:20
Speaker 1: at the end of it. Had a ton of fun,
4:22
Speaker 1: So all really great things that I got to do.
4:25
Speaker 1: And then I took a nice break, which I feel
4:27
Speaker 1: like I sometimes get into the routine of the break
4:30
Speaker 1: as much as I do the training, and now I
4:32
Speaker 1: need to not be in the routine of the break.
4:33
Speaker 1: And like I went and did an eight miler today
4:36
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to
4:39
Speaker 1: get back into real good shape. So yeah, but I
4:41
Speaker 1: think after those types of big efforts, you need a
4:44
Speaker 1: good break as well.
4:45
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, I mean it makes sense, right, And
4:48
Speaker 3: I also need to tell you that for about like
4:51
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen minutes before I sat down with you today,
4:54
Speaker 3: I tried over and over to audibly stay out loud
4:57
Speaker 3: Marathon des Sable.
5:00
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. It doesn't.
5:01
Speaker 3: We will call it MDS from this point forward, but
5:04
Speaker 3: it does not roll off the tongue.
5:05
Speaker 4: For mess disables. It's French, right, it is French. And
5:13
Speaker 4: even that's all I got. That's all I got, cross all.
5:19
Speaker 3: I tried because I wanted to make sure that I
5:22
Speaker 3: did it justice for you. But that was the event
5:26
Speaker 3: that really kicked off the Big three for you, and
5:31
Speaker 3: an event unlike anyone you've done before.
5:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, very different, which was kind of the point I
5:38
Speaker 1: think that, you know, stepping away from the marathon, it
5:42
Speaker 1: was hard. It is something I could have probably continued
5:45
Speaker 1: to do at the exact same level, but not getting
5:48
Speaker 1: any better, but maybe slowly get a little worse. Like
5:51
Speaker 1: it was just sort of like a bleed of getting worse.
5:53
Speaker 1: And so this event required totally different preparation, no measuring
5:58
Speaker 1: stick of like how good am I or what can
6:00
Speaker 1: I accomplished? Can I win, or any of those things.
6:02
Speaker 1: It was just go in and learn something new, learn
6:05
Speaker 1: a new event, learn about myself in yeah, so many variables.
6:09
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of why I picked it.
6:11
Speaker 2: It's just different, just different.
6:13
Speaker 3: Would you say then that you literally didn't have a
6:16
Speaker 3: goal aside from finishing.
6:19
Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair. Like I genuinely wanted to
6:22
Speaker 1: win it. I was like, no, I'm going to go
6:24
Speaker 1: and try to compete really well. But I was also
6:27
Speaker 1: open to the possibility that I could get out there
6:30
Speaker 1: and be like, definitely not made for this. You know,
6:32
Speaker 1: I cannot carry this amount of wait for this long
6:36
Speaker 1: of a distance. And I guess for people who don't
6:39
Speaker 1: know what the event is, we refer to it as MDS.
6:42
Speaker 1: It's a multi stage, multi day day race over I
6:46
Speaker 1: think six or seven days, two hundred and seventy kilometers.
6:50
Speaker 2: I might have been sixty seven miles fact check.
6:53
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and so yeah, you're running averaging about a
6:56
Speaker 1: marathon a day, I guess. And then there's a long
6:59
Speaker 1: day in there, but it's self supported, so you're carrying
7:01
Speaker 1: all your own food, your equipment, you're sleeping whatever you
7:05
Speaker 1: want to have with you. You carry it from resting
7:08
Speaker 1: point to resting point, and then you sleep in a
7:10
Speaker 1: tent that they provide, which is tent. Its a very
7:13
Speaker 1: generous term. It's basically two pieces of material.
7:17
Speaker 3: And some poles tell me a little bit about what
7:20
Speaker 3: sleeping in the tent was like, like put me in
7:24
Speaker 3: the tent with you.
7:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's allowed. I can snore for you if
7:28
Speaker 1: you want that part of it. There's eight people in
7:31
Speaker 1: a bivouac, which is what they call it, and there
7:33
Speaker 1: is a Moroccan rug on the ground, and each spot
7:37
Speaker 1: that they set it up is different in terms of, like,
7:41
Speaker 1: I don't know, ground situation, I got progressively worse, so
7:45
Speaker 1: like started sandy and then progressed to more and more rocky.
7:48
Speaker 1: So then on top of that you have a rug.
7:50
Speaker 1: Then there's about four poles that sort of just hold
7:52
Speaker 1: this thing up, and there's two like it's one big
7:55
Speaker 1: tarp that goes over the top. So you can get
7:57
Speaker 1: creative with the situation with the poles and maybe block
7:59
Speaker 1: some wind or some sand out or get some shade.
8:03
Speaker 1: But that's it. It's really basic. And then you have
8:05
Speaker 1: eight people who basically you have like the length of
8:08
Speaker 1: your body and maybe half if you put your arms out,
8:10
Speaker 1: like half of your arms next to you, and that's
8:13
Speaker 1: like sort of your space in the tent. There's eight
8:14
Speaker 1: people sharing sharing these tents, and there was about I
8:18
Speaker 1: mean I got a couple one hundred or something of
8:21
Speaker 1: the different setups.
8:22
Speaker 3: So yeah, hoo, ooh man, that's not and it's understandably
8:28
Speaker 3: not the most comfortable situation you've ever been for sleeping,
8:31
Speaker 3: which is difficult because recovery is kind of important. When
8:35
Speaker 3: you're running one hundred and sixty seven miles over the
8:38
Speaker 3: course of your time thirty hours, sixteen minutes, and thirty
8:43
Speaker 3: two seconds, that's.
8:45
Speaker 2: Wild well done.
8:46
Speaker 3: That's you know, I do my Daslindon research. The other
8:49
Speaker 3: thing you said there was one long run in there.
8:52
Speaker 3: The long run you're referencing sixty two total miles in
8:55
Speaker 3: one day, which took you twelve hours, sixteen minutes and
8:59
Speaker 3: fifty seven seconds.
9:00
Speaker 2: The longest run of your life. Does tell me about
9:03
Speaker 2: the longest run of your life? Please? Yeah.
9:06
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it was awesome, and I feel like
9:09
Speaker 1: all of this is from the lens of I've recovered.
9:13
Speaker 1: I'm not in it anymore, and the experience was really
9:17
Speaker 1: overall quite good. I'm sure in the moment different thoughts
9:21
Speaker 1: would have emerged, But yeah, I mean, I think the
9:24
Speaker 1: scenery out there was just so unusual and unreal that
9:27
Speaker 1: you know, you are running, but you're kind of exploring
9:30
Speaker 1: and taking all of this in and it just kind
9:35
Speaker 1: of covered so many different I guess terrains, and it
9:40
Speaker 1: feels like ecosystem is probably not the right word, but
9:43
Speaker 1: it felt like that. Like, you know, honestly, if we
9:46
Speaker 1: had someone said, if we had seen if we had
9:48
Speaker 1: run by a lake or any form of water at all,
9:51
Speaker 1: like we really would have checked every box like sand
9:53
Speaker 1: and rocks and you know, riverbed that's dried out and
9:57
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So it felt like a
10:01
Speaker 1: really long day just because it covered so much like
10:05
Speaker 1: distance obviously, but like visually so many different things. You're like, wow, that,
10:09
Speaker 1: Like I remember running through that rocky section, but that
10:12
Speaker 1: felt like it was two days ago because I've seen
10:14
Speaker 1: forty new things since then.
10:15
Speaker 3: So the simple thought of being on feet for twelve
10:20
Speaker 3: hours over the course of one day is really just
10:24
Speaker 3: difficult for me to fathom. But for you, yes, you're
10:28
Speaker 3: progressing through these different ecosystems, if that's what we want
10:31
Speaker 3: to call them, but you're probably also progressing through so
10:34
Speaker 3: many different mindsets, states of mind thoughts.
10:38
Speaker 2: What are you thinking about for twelve hours?
10:41
Speaker 1: I mean early on it was just like, okay, this
10:43
Speaker 1: is fun, enjoy it. Like we started. The people were
10:46
Speaker 1: in the top hundred started after an hour after everyone else,
10:49
Speaker 1: so you're kind of passing friendly faces. There was this
10:52
Speaker 1: amazing section of dune climbing that you like see in
10:56
Speaker 1: all the brochures that sort of looks cool but looks
10:59
Speaker 1: intimidate and like that that's insane, that can't be as steep.
11:02
Speaker 2: As but it is.
11:04
Speaker 1: And so that was really fun and exciting and like
11:08
Speaker 1: kind of you know, build you up to the length
11:11
Speaker 1: of the day. And then like probably at fifty k
11:15
Speaker 1: fifty two k, I was like very very aware that
11:18
Speaker 1: that's the longest I had run before and every step
11:22
Speaker 1: forward was a step into a new territory for me.
11:25
Speaker 1: So trying not to evaluate too much how I felt
11:28
Speaker 1: in like how difficult it was and how hot it was,
11:31
Speaker 1: because obviously in the Sahara mid day heat not the
11:37
Speaker 1: easiest running. But yeah, and then it was just kind
11:41
Speaker 1: of putting out little fires is what I've referred to
11:45
Speaker 1: it a few times as where things popped up and
11:47
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, how do I solve this little problem?
11:50
Speaker 1: Or am I getting enough nutrition and trying to get
11:52
Speaker 1: out in front of things that might pop up. So
11:55
Speaker 1: there was a lot of that going on, But I
11:57
Speaker 1: think all in all, like when I look back. I
11:58
Speaker 1: think I ran amount alone, Like you're never really running
12:04
Speaker 1: grouped up with someone. It was like you're passing people
12:06
Speaker 1: or you're kind of by yourself. So I had a
12:08
Speaker 1: lot of time to think about other things as well,
12:10
Speaker 1: which is getting no music. No music, So yeah, that's
12:14
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's a big decision because
12:17
Speaker 1: if you want you could bring me, like, but you
12:20
Speaker 1: want to bring headphones, that's extra weight, that could be food.
12:23
Speaker 1: And then like if your device dies, now you're carrying
12:26
Speaker 1: a device that you can't use, it's also extra weight,
12:28
Speaker 1: so do you bring a charger? Well that's like so
12:30
Speaker 1: all of those little considerations came into play and no music.
12:35
Speaker 3: No music, Wow, just you your thoughts and lots of
12:39
Speaker 3: different terrains. I admire the perspective of I'm not gonna
12:48
Speaker 3: get wrapped up in the things that are inconvenient aka
12:51
Speaker 3: you mentioned the temperature or maybe the terrain at points,
12:54
Speaker 3: and being able to enjoy the things that were beautiful
12:58
Speaker 3: all bite albeit difficult, right, So like the dunes and
13:02
Speaker 3: things like that. That is a mindset that you've you're
13:06
Speaker 3: refutably trained over the last few years for sure.
13:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's just a productive thing,
13:14
Speaker 1: you know, like if you're dwelling on what you don't
13:16
Speaker 1: have or how uncomfortable you are, or thinking about how
13:19
Speaker 1: much you have left.
13:21
Speaker 2: It's hard.
13:22
Speaker 1: It's a hard race and it's a hard situation, so
13:25
Speaker 1: you're just going to get more uncomfortable instead of, you know,
13:29
Speaker 1: being excited to be able to do this thing and
13:32
Speaker 1: appreciate the good things. So yeah, I mean I think
13:34
Speaker 1: that that's always the mentality that moves you forward is
13:38
Speaker 1: find the positive thing, set the goal that you can
13:40
Speaker 1: accomplish immediately, so you have that positive momentum.
13:44
Speaker 3: When you said you were putting out little fires and
13:47
Speaker 3: focusing on the small blips as they came up, give
13:50
Speaker 3: me examples of the little fires.
13:53
Speaker 1: Blisters were definitely one that was a thing that kind
13:57
Speaker 1: of builds up throughout the whole race, so it was
13:59
Speaker 1: like within day by day, but also within races and
14:02
Speaker 1: certain moments, tight adductors because of the sand that definitely
14:07
Speaker 1: built throughout the race.
14:09
Speaker 2: As a as a whole.
14:11
Speaker 1: And then managing nutrition like I'm sick of tasting this thing,
14:15
Speaker 1: but I need to be hydrating or you know, I
14:18
Speaker 1: ran out of water once or twice during the long day.
14:20
Speaker 1: So then it's like getting in a positive mindset, so
14:24
Speaker 1: little things like that. I mean, I think nutrition was
14:26
Speaker 1: probably the biggest thing to worry about out there, particularly
14:30
Speaker 1: on those those long stages where you're like there's obviously
14:34
Speaker 1: a hydration component, but a fueling component as well.
14:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out to band Aid, right, really helping with
14:41
Speaker 3: the Blitzer situation. Yes, I even you just saying, like,
14:46
Speaker 3: so choosing to get into a positive mindset again, like
14:49
Speaker 3: for so many that's such a hard thing to do
14:52
Speaker 3: in the moment when things aren't going as you'd hoped,
14:55
Speaker 3: Like you didn't train the way that you did and
14:58
Speaker 3: work the way that you did and play everything and
15:00
Speaker 3: travel this far for things not to go in a
15:02
Speaker 3: way that you hoped that they would go, and so
15:06
Speaker 3: to be able to shift into that positive mindset.
15:09
Speaker 2: Any tip on.
15:09
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, I mean, I think we definitely have that
15:14
Speaker 1: moment where we go into negotiation mode, and that's like
15:17
Speaker 1: as soon as you start doing that, you have to
15:20
Speaker 1: make the decision to just have a positive mindset because
15:23
Speaker 1: otherwise what are we doing, you know, like or else
15:26
Speaker 1: there's like a bigger problem at play, and it's like
15:28
Speaker 1: this isn't like I'm having a hard time to get
15:31
Speaker 1: to the end of the race, it's like this is
15:32
Speaker 1: a health concern or I'm thinking about dnfing, Like those
15:37
Speaker 1: are much bigger questions that you know. If you get
15:40
Speaker 1: to that point, then by all means like really evaluate it.
15:43
Speaker 1: But I think when it's just tough in the race,
15:46
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it's because I've done this for
15:48
Speaker 1: so long, but it's just quite easy for me to
15:51
Speaker 1: be like, this is literally what you signed up for.
15:54
Speaker 1: You work really hard to get to this point where
15:56
Speaker 1: it gets difficult. Now make the decisions to make the
15:59
Speaker 1: right choice is because that's really what the event for
16:01
Speaker 1: me is all about. It's like what do I do
16:04
Speaker 1: when things get challenging And as soon as we start
16:08
Speaker 1: to feel sorry for ourselves, it's like, you're just not
16:10
Speaker 1: going to be productive. So take the little winds.
16:14
Speaker 2: Take the little wins as they come.
16:15
Speaker 3: And then I mean, I do need to ask a
16:17
Speaker 3: blister question, because I've had blisters that have become such
16:21
Speaker 3: a problem that I physically.
16:24
Speaker 2: Cannot go on.
16:25
Speaker 3: I cannot imagine how you could conquer this much distance
16:28
Speaker 3: and not have one of these blisters.
16:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, the blister things like a real thing, the real
16:34
Speaker 1: situation you deal with every day. I never really noticed
16:37
Speaker 1: anything whilst on the run. It was mostly you come
16:41
Speaker 1: back and you like kind of see.
16:42
Speaker 2: What you're dealing with.
16:43
Speaker 1: And then those things, if you don't manage them correctly,
16:46
Speaker 1: start to get worse and worse than you notice them
16:49
Speaker 1: on the run.
16:50
Speaker 2: I was pretty lucky.
16:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I think obviously plenty of experience in brick shoes.
16:55
Speaker 1: The gators I had were amazing. People were like, how
16:57
Speaker 1: did you keep your shoes so white? It's like there's
17:00
Speaker 1: a cover that goes over the top of their gators. Yeah,
17:02
Speaker 1: and so it was just staying on top of it.
17:05
Speaker 1: But there's a whole line out this tent, this medical
17:09
Speaker 1: tint for people lined up to get their blisters treated
17:12
Speaker 1: and taken care of. And so yeah, like that's you
17:14
Speaker 1: have a lot of free time. So you go in
17:17
Speaker 1: and you manage the blisters. In e frey time, you
17:19
Speaker 1: go in and manage the blisters. Sponsored or not sponsored.
17:22
Speaker 1: Do we have a sock choice?
17:24
Speaker 2: Certainly a Brooks sock, I don't.
17:25
Speaker 1: I think it was the Ghost, not light, but the
17:29
Speaker 1: Ghost regular I don't know.
17:31
Speaker 2: Ghost.
17:33
Speaker 1: It's like a quarter length and it says Brooks up
17:35
Speaker 1: the side and it's a great sock.
17:37
Speaker 2: And you should.
17:37
Speaker 3: Okay, I will say that Brooks is one of the
17:41
Speaker 3: few companies that makes my goldielock sock height, which is
17:45
Speaker 3: like not quite like full calf, but like just like
17:49
Speaker 3: right below where the calf muscle begins.
17:52
Speaker 2: Really yeah, oh, I know exactly who my ten lines are.
17:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're hitting the spot.
17:58
Speaker 2: You're like, I know the spot. It's my favorite. Wow.
18:00
Speaker 3: So I mean again, this is just one of three
18:04
Speaker 3: races that you had on the docket for the spring.
18:07
Speaker 3: And in between each of these races, after MDS is
18:11
Speaker 3: Boston and then Boston is London.
18:13
Speaker 2: You're not going home.
18:15
Speaker 3: So you went straight from your little reprieve in Morocco
18:19
Speaker 3: a Marrakesh.
18:20
Speaker 2: Yes, great city, little reprieve in a marrick Ash.
18:24
Speaker 3: Then you went to Boston and there you were again
18:27
Speaker 3: does which is ironic because at that race last year
18:31
Speaker 3: you said I'm all set with this at least in
18:34
Speaker 3: this way, but des London cannot stay away from Boylston.
18:38
Speaker 1: Street, can't stop, won't stop something like that.
18:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:42
Speaker 1: No, I feel like even last year, as I was
18:45
Speaker 1: kind of mentally grappling with being done as a professional,
18:48
Speaker 1: one of the people who's really sacrificed or at least
18:51
Speaker 1: assisted and put their own goals on the back burner
18:54
Speaker 1: for a long time. Helping me with my career is Ryan,
18:57
Speaker 1: my husband, and so last year, as we're kind of
19:00
Speaker 1: he was doing training with me and not getting to
19:02
Speaker 1: race because he has to beat the finish and all
19:03
Speaker 1: those types of fun things, we chatted about maybe him
19:06
Speaker 1: doing it the following year and like us kind of
19:09
Speaker 1: running together, and so yeah, that was that was always
19:12
Speaker 1: in the plans. And then I looked at the calendar
19:15
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that will be a busy April,
19:17
Speaker 1: but we've already agreed to this, so yeah, let's make
19:20
Speaker 1: it happen.
19:21
Speaker 2: And so yeah, it was it was a no brainer.
19:22
Speaker 1: I was always going to do that and just figure
19:24
Speaker 1: out a way to make sure I recovered and as
19:27
Speaker 1: long as I wasn't injured, I was going to do it.
19:30
Speaker 2: So which was like a decent possibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:35
Speaker 1: The last couple of days of MDS, like Magde was
19:38
Speaker 1: out there, was like just don't like you have other
19:40
Speaker 1: things coming up, like don't hurt yourself, Like you're pretty
19:43
Speaker 1: solidified in your place. You're probably not going to catch
19:45
Speaker 1: anybody unless you have like two really good days but
19:48
Speaker 1: you could injure yourself trying to have those really good days,
19:51
Speaker 1: so it's just like play it safe the last few days.
20:11
Speaker 3: What was the biggest difference for you running the race
20:16
Speaker 3: as a commoner versus running the race as an elite.
20:20
Speaker 2: The start's crazy. I think we watched it.
20:23
Speaker 1: They were being very kind because I actually shot the
20:26
Speaker 1: gun for the pro women, and then the masses are
20:30
Speaker 1: kind of lining it up, and they were like, we'll
20:32
Speaker 1: just bring you to the start like right before, like
20:35
Speaker 1: just hang tight, like enjoy the amenities. And so then
20:38
Speaker 1: they grabbed us and we're like, oh cool, this is
20:40
Speaker 1: gonna be sick. And then they moved just to the
20:42
Speaker 1: very back of Wave one or Corral one, I don't
20:45
Speaker 1: know which one it was, but it was a very
20:47
Speaker 1: large group of people. And so then we started back there,
20:51
Speaker 1: which wasn't terrible, but it was probably I feel like
20:55
Speaker 1: we went out in like six twenty six thirty pace
20:58
Speaker 1: and we wanted to be, you know.
21:00
Speaker 2: Five fifty five.
21:01
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of bodies to work through, and
21:04
Speaker 1: I think I think Ryan it was fitter than what
21:07
Speaker 1: he actually finished in, but I think we had to
21:09
Speaker 1: burn a lot of matches just finding space and making
21:11
Speaker 1: sure we were actually like locked into the rhythm we needed.
21:15
Speaker 1: So that to me was probably the most challenging part
21:18
Speaker 1: of the whole day.
21:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean very different than what you were used to.
21:23
Speaker 3: Can des Linden run any of the Boston Marathon without
21:27
Speaker 3: someone talking to you because you're Des Linden?
21:30
Speaker 2: Probably not? No, Yeah, so like we're people just talking
21:33
Speaker 2: to you the entire time.
21:35
Speaker 1: I had a lot of good conversations, yeah, I mean,
21:38
Speaker 1: and then if it wasn't, it was me chatting with Ryan.
21:40
Speaker 1: So yeah, the car I also like, I get the
21:42
Speaker 1: front name BIB, so people watching her like gods like
21:46
Speaker 1: or you know, and then some people in that process
21:49
Speaker 1: are like, oh it's does like that she won or whatever.
21:52
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's a pretty good morale boost out
21:57
Speaker 1: there from the crowds and the competitors.
22:00
Speaker 2: Is that a morale boost for Ryan as well?
22:03
Speaker 3: How does Ryan feel about Ryan's racing when everyone's yelling
22:08
Speaker 3: for Deaz?
22:10
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's a great question.
22:11
Speaker 1: I do think like he kind of enjoys it because
22:14
Speaker 1: he's just like, oh, this is really cool. But I
22:17
Speaker 1: even imagine it gets annoying, Like I'd be annoyed.
22:21
Speaker 2: If I were like, what about me? Everyone, Yeah, exactly.
22:26
Speaker 3: So I know that you said that you went out
22:27
Speaker 3: there with the intention obviously to run with him the
22:30
Speaker 3: entire time. Spoiler alert, I know you did finish slightly
22:33
Speaker 3: before Ryan. When did you split and why did you split?
22:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the goal was always twenty miles.
22:40
Speaker 1: I feel right like, right before getting into the Newton Hills,
22:45
Speaker 1: he was not he was not feeling it, Like it
22:47
Speaker 1: was like, this isn't the right effort to be able
22:50
Speaker 1: to maintain and throughout, and then he paused, like we
22:53
Speaker 1: paused for a little bit for him to stretch, and
22:56
Speaker 1: I was like, just who cares, Like, let's just have fun,
22:59
Speaker 1: don't force anything. And then after that we kind of
23:03
Speaker 1: picked it up and got right back on pace again.
23:05
Speaker 1: So it like came around for him and we ran
23:08
Speaker 1: together through about twenty and it was always at twenty
23:10
Speaker 1: like maybe I'll go, maybe I won't, depends like how
23:13
Speaker 1: he's doing with his goal. I think he was getting
23:15
Speaker 1: annoyed with me because I was feeling decent enough and
23:19
Speaker 1: like kind of encouraging him, probably a little too much,
23:23
Speaker 1: you know, just giving him advice and stuff. But like
23:25
Speaker 1: I totally get it. When you're in it, You're like
23:26
Speaker 1: shut the up. Yeah, And like I know what the
23:30
Speaker 1: trial's standard is, and I have like incentives to run
23:35
Speaker 1: under that, and so I was like, well, I'm actually
23:37
Speaker 1: like pretty close to being able to do this, even
23:39
Speaker 1: with stopping and having to manage the start and all
23:41
Speaker 1: these different things. So it's like, I'm just gonna give
23:44
Speaker 1: it a crack and see if I can actually get
23:46
Speaker 1: under that time.
23:47
Speaker 2: Just why not? So I did? Why not?
23:50
Speaker 3: And then I mean I do remember after seeing you
23:53
Speaker 3: cross the finish I'm like looking for Ryan because I'm
23:56
Speaker 3: standing in the grand stand, and so then there's just
23:59
Speaker 3: this really beautiful moment like when Ryan finishes and Ryan
24:02
Speaker 3: gets to run to you, which is just like so
24:06
Speaker 3: cool knowing what he's been doing and the opposite side.
24:10
Speaker 2: How did that moment feel for you?
24:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was awesome, Like I wish we'd
24:16
Speaker 1: been able to cross the finish line together, but he
24:19
Speaker 1: was supportive of me doing my thing and him doing
24:21
Speaker 1: his thing, and yeah, I think he was really happy
24:25
Speaker 1: with his day, and just you know, it was a good,
24:27
Speaker 1: very cool moment for us to have that finish line
24:30
Speaker 1: together and have a shared goal that we were able
24:33
Speaker 1: to achieve At the same time, So that was that
24:35
Speaker 1: was special and yeah, like you said, very different in
24:39
Speaker 1: that normally it's him just like waiting and being.
24:41
Speaker 3: Like, so this is how it feels exactly, and I'm
24:49
Speaker 3: watching because it was you finished the race in two
24:52
Speaker 3: thirty five forty nine, which you did hit that two
24:54
Speaker 3: thirty seven OTQ mark.
24:56
Speaker 2: He finished around what.
24:59
Speaker 1: I think thirty seven or thirty eight.
25:02
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
25:03
Speaker 3: So like you had a few minutes there and people
25:05
Speaker 3: are crossing the finish line They're like, how great does
25:07
Speaker 3: this here to welcome me in?
25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's actually so I posted a video and
25:11
Speaker 1: it's pretty epic, like people were just crossing, like vomiting,
25:13
Speaker 1: like laying on the ground. It's like in a very
25:15
Speaker 1: aggressive group of people, they're very goal oriented. There was
25:19
Speaker 1: a handful of people that were like, oh, this does
25:21
Speaker 1: like because we had run together like back and forth
25:23
Speaker 1: throughout the race, but even myself, like because I picked
25:26
Speaker 1: it up a fair amount from twenty in like when
25:31
Speaker 1: we stopped, I don't know why. I instinctively stopped my
25:34
Speaker 1: watch and I didn't know like how long weet right,
25:37
Speaker 1: and I had stopped to stretch, so I was like,
25:39
Speaker 1: I don't really know how close I am to this goal,
25:41
Speaker 1: but I felt like we were there for like a
25:43
Speaker 1: minute a minute and a half. So I'm like, I
25:44
Speaker 1: have to book it. So I'm looking at the time.
25:46
Speaker 1: I'm rining as hard as I can that last several miles,
25:49
Speaker 1: like four to five miles, and when I finished, you know,
25:53
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if that's gun time,
25:55
Speaker 1: tip time with all these different things are So I'm
25:57
Speaker 1: just gotta go as hard as I can. So I
25:58
Speaker 1: hit this bonus. Otherwise should just ran with Ryan and
26:01
Speaker 1: I'm an a hole. So I crossed and I did
26:04
Speaker 1: hit the time, but it was like a big effort
26:06
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, like about to throw up,
26:09
Speaker 1: and like the ba Jack from the BAA. It was like, wow,
26:12
Speaker 1: you're like really competitive about that, man, So like I
26:17
Speaker 1: respect everyone who's finishing in that state, and I just
26:20
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a buffer to regather myself.
26:23
Speaker 2: Just a little bit of a little bit of a buffer. Yeah.
26:26
Speaker 3: I mean you're like, I'm I'm doing a hard thing.
26:30
Speaker 3: Like just because I am who I am doesn't mean
26:32
Speaker 3: that it's not a hard thing totally.
26:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh man, Well I know that you then were
26:38
Speaker 2: able to at.
26:39
Speaker 3: Least have a couple of days to kick it before
26:42
Speaker 3: you hopped, then right back on a plane to go
26:45
Speaker 3: to London, where you did have a day or two
26:47
Speaker 3: before the obligations began.
26:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a pretty quick turnaround because you have
26:51
Speaker 1: the Monday race, and what Monday was, London was on Sunday,
26:55
Speaker 1: so I think most of us were on a night
26:57
Speaker 1: flight on Tuesday night, and then you know, trying to
27:01
Speaker 1: adjust time zones, trying to celebrate with people who did
27:04
Speaker 1: really well in Boston. But that flight, watching people get
27:07
Speaker 1: off that flight was pretty impressive, like everyone was hurting
27:10
Speaker 1: quite a bit.
27:12
Speaker 3: I cannot even fathom that kind of situation. I know
27:16
Speaker 3: that I landed in London. I think about I flew
27:22
Speaker 3: Wednesday night from New York. I landed in London Thursday morning,
27:26
Speaker 3: and you were the first person I saw.
27:28
Speaker 2: I walked into the hotel, I was like, oh, here
27:31
Speaker 2: I am.
27:33
Speaker 3: Here's my buddy. You're like, do you want to sit
27:34
Speaker 3: in eat breakfast? I'm like, I'm not even like a
27:36
Speaker 3: whole human being.
27:37
Speaker 2: Right now, but read in the jams, like how could
27:40
Speaker 2: I not?
27:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a good spread, this is great. It
27:43
Speaker 1: was a nice little hotel. It was a good spot
27:45
Speaker 1: good people in there. Yeah, we really worked that hotel
27:50
Speaker 1: bar pretty well.
27:51
Speaker 3: I thought, I will say that and we will talk
27:55
Speaker 3: about your your day of running in London, but the
27:59
Speaker 3: fitness that is required to sit with des at a
28:05
Speaker 3: bar knowing that you're not going anywhere like you are.
28:09
Speaker 3: It is a marathon, and no one runs a bar
28:12
Speaker 3: marathon like Des Lindon.
28:15
Speaker 1: You got hunk down, be ready for some conversations. Can
28:18
Speaker 1: you go in any direction? People are going to rotate
28:20
Speaker 1: in and out like it.
28:22
Speaker 3: Says I left the bar for like four hours, I
28:25
Speaker 3: came back and you're still there.
28:28
Speaker 2: It wasn't just me.
28:29
Speaker 1: There was like a squad, I know, like regular the
28:32
Speaker 1: barge wine swapping. We did an arrange, but it was
28:39
Speaker 1: like that was the one that was the first time
28:42
Speaker 1: Dave and I he ran on the MDS team, and
28:44
Speaker 1: then we actually got to finally connect and like hang
28:46
Speaker 1: out and regroup and chat about it. And I think
28:49
Speaker 1: that's part of why the long bar time, because you're
28:53
Speaker 1: just telling stories.
28:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, and I mean both you and Dave
28:57
Speaker 3: had quite interesting days that seated the bar stories.
29:01
Speaker 2: You running. Then the third.
29:04
Speaker 3: And final of the triple that we're talking about, is
29:07
Speaker 3: it uh okay to share a little bit about your
29:10
Speaker 3: goal for that day.
29:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, tell me about it.
29:13
Speaker 1: I was intending to pace a friend who was trying
29:16
Speaker 1: to run I think realistically three ten to three flat.
29:21
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone wants to get under the round number.
29:24
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think she, you know, was like, let's
29:27
Speaker 1: start conservative and see if we can maybe feel good
29:30
Speaker 1: and pull it together late.
29:32
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think she rean.
29:33
Speaker 1: I think she end up running like three twelve, three fourteen,
29:35
Speaker 1: so pretty close to what she wanted to do and
29:39
Speaker 1: super solid effort. But yeah, the goal was always just
29:42
Speaker 1: to support her, and it was touch and go, Like
29:45
Speaker 1: my legs were pretty beat up from Boston and to
29:49
Speaker 1: the point where I was like some of the stuff
29:51
Speaker 1: that had been bothering by at the end of MDS
29:53
Speaker 1: was okay in Boston, and then after Boston was like,
29:56
Speaker 1: I hope I don't have like a fractured femur, Like
29:58
Speaker 1: if I feel this during the RAG, I really don't
30:01
Speaker 1: want to be the person who steps off, but I
30:03
Speaker 1: have to make a semi smart decision. But it warmed
30:06
Speaker 1: up and like at one point she's like, are you
30:08
Speaker 1: are you gonna step off or not? I was like no,
30:10
Speaker 1: in it the whole way, as long as the body
30:12
Speaker 1: doesn't crumble underneath me.
30:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a fractured femur is no joke. Yeah no,
30:17
Speaker 2: And it was it.
30:17
Speaker 1: It was fine, but it was like one of those
30:20
Speaker 1: things where you just feel the same pain on the
30:21
Speaker 1: same spot and you're like, I don't know, but I
30:24
Speaker 1: will say not that I was rooting against her, but
30:27
Speaker 1: I was. I was really hoping she would slow down
30:30
Speaker 1: some because it didn't feel great. I'll be here and
30:33
Speaker 1: I'll do it if I have to. But if you
30:35
Speaker 1: slow down, I'm not going to be mad.
30:37
Speaker 3: You're like, I will support you in a much friendlier way.
30:41
Speaker 2: Maybe if we just take this back a little bit, right,
30:44
Speaker 2: exactly your goals right?
30:48
Speaker 3: And you know what's so interesting also is that I
30:50
Speaker 3: know that you also then, like last year, you ran
30:54
Speaker 3: the New York City Marathon in a much slower time
30:57
Speaker 3: than your usual playing a support role. This also London
31:01
Speaker 3: a slower time playing a support role. Would you say
31:05
Speaker 3: that there is any benefit to taking your time a
31:10
Speaker 3: little bit more? What does that experience bring you in
31:13
Speaker 3: terms of the positives.
31:15
Speaker 1: I guess if I were just doing it on my own,
31:19
Speaker 1: I think it would be I don't think I could
31:20
Speaker 1: do it. I think if it was I would start
31:22
Speaker 1: it as a long run and then I would get competitive.
31:24
Speaker 1: But I think it's it's nice to appreciate the crowds,
31:27
Speaker 1: like the scenery, especially in a place like London where
31:29
Speaker 1: I haven't been on that course before. Yeah, just to
31:33
Speaker 1: take it in a different way without pressure would be
31:36
Speaker 1: a perk. And I think that you know, obviously the
31:38
Speaker 1: bridges in New York and the community and all the
31:41
Speaker 1: different burrows. Like to experience that in a way where
31:45
Speaker 1: you can take it in versus having blinders on and
31:47
Speaker 1: just being like, what's the move?
31:49
Speaker 2: How fast am I going?
31:50
Speaker 1: That's that's nice, And then yeah, supporting someone else's goals
31:54
Speaker 1: is is really for me the only reason to do it.
31:58
Speaker 1: I can do a long run at any point. Yeah,
32:01
Speaker 1: if I can assist someone else with their goals, I
32:03
Speaker 1: think that that is actually even better than the sites
32:06
Speaker 1: and all the other things we talked about.
32:08
Speaker 3: So the sites and the other things, well, like we said,
32:11
Speaker 3: we did mention Dave who was there doing content capture
32:15
Speaker 3: for your new pal, Cynthia Rievo, who had herself a
32:19
Speaker 3: wonderful day in London. She was supported by Brooks in
32:23
Speaker 3: this journey and to watch her like book it by
32:27
Speaker 3: the Brooks Cheer Station was absolutely wild.
32:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's crazy.
32:33
Speaker 1: I mean, we got to do the podcast interview with
32:35
Speaker 1: her for the Nobody Else's pod and there's just there's
32:39
Speaker 1: an intensity obviously, like you get that right away. And
32:42
Speaker 1: we also got to watch her do the Dracula performance
32:45
Speaker 1: and you're.
32:45
Speaker 2: Like, wow, she's athletic.
32:47
Speaker 1: She's intense, like she's really gonna rip one, like you
32:51
Speaker 1: could just feel it, and you know, obviously that showed
32:54
Speaker 1: in the performance and the result. I think my favorite
32:56
Speaker 1: part of all of that, and only because it worked out,
33:00
Speaker 1: was watching Dave stress about trying to find her and
33:04
Speaker 1: be able to keep up with her and get the
33:06
Speaker 1: shots that he's flown.
33:07
Speaker 2: Over to London to get. But it's in this very.
33:10
Speaker 1: Dynamic situation where it's like there's no like, you gotta go,
33:13
Speaker 1: you have to book it because she's running fast, yeah.
33:17
Speaker 2: And you need to be faster. Yeah.
33:19
Speaker 3: I mean I think he told this story on the
33:21
Speaker 3: Believe in the Run podcast, But he runs up to
33:23
Speaker 3: me at one point and he just like stares at
33:26
Speaker 3: me and he's.
33:27
Speaker 2: Like, where is she? And I'm like a minute ahead
33:30
Speaker 2: of you, Like just go.
33:32
Speaker 3: Go, and I have like Dave's location on my phone
33:36
Speaker 3: because I think he was wearing I don't know if
33:38
Speaker 3: it was his phone or an air tag that I
33:40
Speaker 3: was connected to, but I had Dave on my phone
33:42
Speaker 3: and he's just going along and I'm like, I think
33:44
Speaker 3: he's gonna catch her, like so stressful, like talk about
33:48
Speaker 3: a stressful and a workman.
33:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's like way worse than what I was doing.
33:52
Speaker 1: I was like, have fun drinking beers. I have five people.
33:57
Speaker 3: You did reach for a beer when we saw you,
33:59
Speaker 3: which was it was an indicator that you were in
34:01
Speaker 3: good spirits.
34:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's become signature now because I
34:07
Speaker 1: had one with Anthony that was great.
34:09
Speaker 3: Ryan.
34:09
Speaker 1: I shared one in Boston that was cool. I didn't
34:12
Speaker 1: have anyone to share it with in London, but I
34:16
Speaker 1: did stop and take a nice swig.
34:18
Speaker 2: Now, like, was it a Guinness? It was not.
34:21
Speaker 1: No, I wasn't something lighter, but I yeah, I think
34:24
Speaker 1: a Guinness in London at the pub would have been
34:28
Speaker 1: a good move.
34:29
Speaker 2: I wasn't in a good move would have been a
34:31
Speaker 2: good move.
34:31
Speaker 3: Well, trust me, there were many other opportunities for Guinness
34:34
Speaker 3: during our time in London. I do want to transition
34:38
Speaker 3: a little bit now and talk about your transition because
34:43
Speaker 3: you have been someone who running has been the center
34:47
Speaker 3: of their life for so long now, and I would
34:49
Speaker 3: argue that in some ways it's still the center of
34:52
Speaker 3: your life.
34:53
Speaker 2: It just looks a little bit different.
34:56
Speaker 3: So how would you say that this shift with the
35:00
Speaker 3: podcast and the media you're doing and the way that
35:03
Speaker 3: you're traveling and just getting out into the community, how
35:08
Speaker 3: has that changed your relationship with the sport.
35:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird space to be in. And I've
35:15
Speaker 1: thought it would be more like obvious, like Okay, this
35:19
Speaker 1: professional thing is done and we're just going to go
35:21
Speaker 1: do a bunch of fun stuff. I think that there's
35:24
Speaker 1: like a want and a need to do the ultra
35:28
Speaker 1: trail side stuff at a high level while I can, yeah,
35:31
Speaker 1: or at least find out if I can do it
35:32
Speaker 1: at that level. And obviously the window is super small,
35:35
Speaker 1: so it's like do it now or you're not going
35:37
Speaker 1: to do it.
35:38
Speaker 2: And so I'm trying to approach it with that.
35:41
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like you know, MDS was
35:43
Speaker 1: something that I fought to have, you know, have importance
35:48
Speaker 1: on my schedule and for Brooks and it's also picking
35:51
Speaker 1: things that sound fun and interesting. Otherwise I think is
35:55
Speaker 1: just too much work, you know, to kind of train
35:58
Speaker 1: in that same capacity. So there's a few things lingering
36:02
Speaker 1: that I think sparked that excitement still to do it
36:06
Speaker 1: in a competitive way, or at least to try. So
36:08
Speaker 1: I'll have a few races that I'm like, given full
36:12
Speaker 1: gas effort to coming up. But at the same time,
36:15
Speaker 1: I guess I feel more open to like pivot and
36:20
Speaker 1: change the plan if I need to, Like, if I
36:22
Speaker 1: get into the training, I'm like, actually, this sucks. I
36:24
Speaker 1: don't want to do this, Like then I should find
36:27
Speaker 1: something fun to do instead. And I think that that
36:30
Speaker 1: the freedom to do that and not be so tied
36:32
Speaker 1: to like this race is the center of my fall
36:35
Speaker 1: or spring or year.
36:38
Speaker 2: Is kind of healthy for where I'm at right now.
36:40
Speaker 2: So that's great.
36:41
Speaker 1: And then you know, mixing it up with the community
36:44
Speaker 1: is great. Obviously running in the masses is different. That's
36:48
Speaker 1: totally different. Having the podcast, yeah, and then some of
36:51
Speaker 1: the stuff's the same, like being an ambassador at the
36:55
Speaker 1: Orlando Half in the fall, It's like I would do
36:58
Speaker 1: that at other races in the past. So yeah, it's
37:00
Speaker 1: a juggling act.
37:02
Speaker 3: It's it's also like, and please correct me if I'm wrong,
37:07
Speaker 3: but when you were racing professionally, like these races were,
37:13
Speaker 3: as a runner, a big source of your income, and
37:17
Speaker 3: over the years, like that has transitioned a bit and
37:20
Speaker 3: now like all of these other things that you're doing
37:23
Speaker 3: are the major source of your income. So I would
37:25
Speaker 3: think or assume that it's a little easier to be
37:29
Speaker 3: like this training isn't feeling good, or this is like
37:31
Speaker 3: you have more room to pivot now.
37:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think that there was a couple
37:37
Speaker 1: of moments in the last couple of years where you're like, oh,
37:41
Speaker 1: here's this opportunity. It's maybe three days of events or
37:45
Speaker 1: work or whatever it is. Maybe there's some meetings ahead
37:48
Speaker 1: of time, so you're talking all in maybe like ten
37:50
Speaker 1: days of work, and then here's the fee.
37:54
Speaker 2: And then here's.
37:55
Speaker 1: Your offer for a world major marathon appearance fee. That's
37:58
Speaker 1: four months of work. Train that you don't have any
38:01
Speaker 1: guarantee that you're gonna get the money, but you might
38:03
Speaker 1: get fifty percent if you have a bad day, but
38:05
Speaker 1: you could get the whole amount if you have a
38:06
Speaker 1: good day. And you like weigh those things and you're like, well,
38:11
Speaker 1: this is just better business practice, like from a time
38:14
Speaker 1: management from my body and my health. And so there
38:17
Speaker 1: was a few of those moments in the last couple
38:19
Speaker 1: of years where you're like, I'm actually better served pivoting
38:23
Speaker 1: and making sure i take all these opportunities while they're
38:26
Speaker 1: here and you can still run and compete and have
38:28
Speaker 1: that other stuff happening. And I think that's also very
38:31
Speaker 1: important in terms of storytelling and branding and all like
38:35
Speaker 1: the strange things that people don't want to talk about
38:37
Speaker 1: but that are happening.
38:39
Speaker 2: And so yeah, it's just a.
38:40
Speaker 1: Balance and you have to make good, valid business decisions
38:43
Speaker 1: as well.
39:01
Speaker 2: Well.
39:01
Speaker 3: I find like your good valid business decisions and like
39:04
Speaker 3: the strategies and the opportunity to learn from you so
39:07
Speaker 3: interesting because you are someone that for a while did
39:11
Speaker 3: have an agent and now you are navigating all this
39:14
Speaker 3: on your own. So I find it to be so
39:18
Speaker 3: inspiring to watch you as you find your way through this.
39:22
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, I mean I really enjoy it.
39:25
Speaker 1: And I think, like, no one's gonna fight for you
39:29
Speaker 1: as much as you if someone else is doing a
39:31
Speaker 1: better job, Like you got to really think about what
39:35
Speaker 1: you're doing and why you're not believing in yourself.
39:38
Speaker 2: Even more than everyone else.
39:39
Speaker 3: Yeah.
39:40
Speaker 2: I think I got to the point.
39:41
Speaker 1: Where I was really good at advocating for myself, so
39:45
Speaker 1: much so that I was doing it with my agent,
39:46
Speaker 1: who would then go take that argument go to the
39:49
Speaker 1: brand and like wait, why am I paying for this?
39:51
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
39:51
Speaker 1: Like there's times where I'm like, wow, I really wish
39:54
Speaker 1: someone would have this hard conversation for me, or I
39:56
Speaker 1: could have passed this off to somebody else. So there's
39:59
Speaker 1: up and down to both sides of it, But I
40:03
Speaker 1: do I enjoyed the process of it.
40:05
Speaker 3: Having hard conversations is so debilitating sometimes and so is
40:09
Speaker 3: like for me sometimes I'll fire off an email and
40:12
Speaker 3: I'll like feel like I need to go hide. I'm
40:14
Speaker 3: like I just need to like just like shield myself
40:16
Speaker 3: from the rest of the world for like fifteen minutes
40:18
Speaker 3: worrying or thinking about what's going to come from whatever
40:22
Speaker 3: I just sent out into the internet world.
40:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:28
Speaker 1: I love hard conversations. I think they're like one of
40:30
Speaker 1: my favorite things. I do think there's like a like
40:34
Speaker 1: when the Biggerer audience, like the more often you're doing it,
40:38
Speaker 1: you're more likely going to get hate from somebody because
40:41
Speaker 1: it doesn't Oh, you don't always think the same as
40:44
Speaker 1: everybody else, and that's okay. I think I like to
40:48
Speaker 1: have those conversations because I generally walk away learning something
40:53
Speaker 1: that I didn't know before, or like seeing a perspective
40:56
Speaker 1: I'd never had before. And when I do go into them,
40:59
Speaker 1: it's not that I'm assuming I'm right all the time.
41:02
Speaker 1: It's like, this is my stance, and I'm happy to
41:05
Speaker 1: be moved or change what I think, but let's talk
41:08
Speaker 1: about it.
41:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
41:10
Speaker 3: This makes me think about a conversation that I was
41:13
Speaker 3: listening to the other day between my friend Niki Oganaki
41:16
Speaker 3: and Cleo Wade, and in the conversation, Cleo Wade said,
41:19
Speaker 3: you need to come into the room knowing how much
41:21
Speaker 3: you're worth. The principle this person was talking about to
41:24
Speaker 3: embody the energy of like I know what I'm worth.
41:26
Speaker 3: You can argue with me, but you can't convince me
41:28
Speaker 3: i'm worth. Otherwise, you can negotiate what you're willing to spend,
41:32
Speaker 3: but you will never be able to tell me what
41:35
Speaker 3: I'm worth.
41:35
Speaker 2: And I like listen to that and I was like, yeah,
41:38
Speaker 2: that is that is it? Yeah, No, that's great. It's
41:42
Speaker 2: a great line.
41:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, what have you learned in this process of like
41:45
Speaker 3: being your own biggest type human that has really empowered
41:49
Speaker 3: you to get to a point where now you enjoy
41:50
Speaker 3: having these difficult conversations.
41:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:53
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's knowing the value of my
41:56
Speaker 1: time and like how I want to spend it and
41:59
Speaker 1: being able to partner with people who appreciate that and
42:02
Speaker 1: respect that and want to support it and also see
42:05
Speaker 1: that value. But I think on the other side of
42:07
Speaker 1: it is, you know, one oh one is like it's
42:11
Speaker 1: not personal. Sometimes things just don't make sense and they
42:14
Speaker 1: don't work out, or people can't don't have the budget,
42:17
Speaker 1: and there's all these conversations that happen outside your conversation,
42:22
Speaker 1: And I think I always have to remind myself of that, Like, yes,
42:24
Speaker 1: I'm interacting this one person, but they're taking this conversation
42:28
Speaker 1: and they're going back to their whole team of people
42:31
Speaker 1: and they have their own programs, they're working on, their
42:34
Speaker 1: own budgeting, they're working on. So it's not a reflection
42:36
Speaker 1: or indication of like my personal worth or value. Sometimes
42:42
Speaker 1: some like in a lot of these conversations is just
42:45
Speaker 1: transactional and that's okay.
42:46
Speaker 2: It's not like you can't take it personally.
42:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think something for me and i'd
42:52
Speaker 3: love your take on this. That sometimes I navigate is like,
42:56
Speaker 3: because I don't have co workers that I'm with all
42:58
Speaker 3: the time, I get cited at the opportunity to collaborate
43:01
Speaker 3: with people, and I do have to remember that at
43:04
Speaker 3: the end of the day, even though a lot of
43:05
Speaker 3: these relationships can be super friendly, like, this is all
43:09
Speaker 3: still business and I need to not always like, of
43:13
Speaker 3: course I'm maintaining professionalism all the time, but like it's
43:16
Speaker 3: business and I need to remember that sometimes and be
43:19
Speaker 3: able to separate the two while still being able to
43:22
Speaker 3: be a compassionate and good human being for sure.
43:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that that is one of
43:27
Speaker 1: the challenges with representing myself as like the talent as well.
43:33
Speaker 1: And like I think about Brooks and I have a
43:36
Speaker 1: twenty year you know, partnership with them, and so I
43:38
Speaker 1: know a lot of these people. And I've worked with
43:41
Speaker 1: Garrett Heath as an athlete before and you know, now
43:45
Speaker 1: we're doing business together, and like it's very much like, hey, Garrett,
43:49
Speaker 1: I'm putting on my agent hat, like let's talk about this,
43:54
Speaker 1: this and this and like you have the hard conversation,
43:56
Speaker 1: you go cool. I'm like taking off the hat now,
43:59
Speaker 1: and like can you separate those two worlds? And I
44:02
Speaker 1: think that those are really good partnerships, and like when
44:05
Speaker 1: you can develop that relationship with someone, it's it's special
44:09
Speaker 1: and it's helpful.
44:10
Speaker 2: But not everyone's like that.
44:11
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to just wear the hat all the
44:13
Speaker 1: time or like even yeah, the hat hats on because
44:16
Speaker 1: you have to approach on differently.
44:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that to your point, it is really
44:21
Speaker 3: special when you could have hard conversations with good people
44:25
Speaker 3: who respect you as like both sides of the coin, right,
44:28
Speaker 3: as like a person and as the agent or the athlete.
44:32
Speaker 3: It's really cool for someone to see you holistically like that.
44:36
Speaker 3: And again, I think that it speaks to the level
44:41
Speaker 3: of professionalism that you can bring to the table when
44:43
Speaker 3: you're like, hey, like I want to be real with
44:45
Speaker 3: you or level with you in this way. I'm not
44:47
Speaker 3: trying to beat around the bush. I just want to
44:49
Speaker 3: have an honest conversation.
44:51
Speaker 1: That's I think the key is like approaching it as
44:55
Speaker 1: an honest conversation because I feel like there is a
44:57
Speaker 1: lot of gamesmanship and angling and like let's go out
45:01
Speaker 1: and do this social thing that feels like it's in
45:03
Speaker 1: this other realm. But then I'm going to poke the
45:05
Speaker 1: little holes into the professional realm, or I'm going to
45:08
Speaker 1: plant some seeds that I'm going to bring up in
45:10
Speaker 1: a business. It's like, just be upfront and honest, Like,
45:14
Speaker 1: I think that makes it so much easier.
45:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
45:17
Speaker 3: Now, I mean, does you've transitioned really into being this
45:21
Speaker 3: really critical voice I would argue within the media space
45:25
Speaker 3: when it comes to talking about running, woman's sistence running
45:30
Speaker 3: just running in general, really has calling races and analyzing
45:35
Speaker 3: other athletes change the way that you view your own
45:39
Speaker 3: career or you're you know these days your tactical approach
45:43
Speaker 3: to racing.
45:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I think it's
45:49
Speaker 1: like everyone has their own specific skill set and you
45:53
Speaker 1: know it for the most part, and when you're calling it,
45:55
Speaker 1: it's just knowing them specifically and learning about them. I
46:01
Speaker 1: don't think that I would have taken anything back and
46:03
Speaker 1: been like, oh, I wish I had used this approach
46:05
Speaker 1: or that approach. I think I knew myself really well
46:07
Speaker 1: and my strengths really well. But it's fun to be
46:11
Speaker 1: able to do it from that side and like actually
46:14
Speaker 1: analyze and critique and not I mean, I think when
46:19
Speaker 1: you're with your peers and you're with your competitors, Like
46:21
Speaker 1: even when I started calling races, it was like too soon,
46:25
Speaker 1: because if you have a critique or you know, question
46:30
Speaker 1: of something in athletes doing, there's this idea that it's like, well,
46:34
Speaker 1: you're just saying that because you're competitors or you're jealous
46:36
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I think now there's enough space that
46:39
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, okay, like this is a real opinion
46:43
Speaker 1: about the tactics or you know, it's analytical place, not
46:46
Speaker 1: like an emotional place, which is strange that you have
46:49
Speaker 1: to think about that. But I do think maybe it's
46:53
Speaker 1: maybe it's I'm totally off, but females especially it's like, oh,
46:58
Speaker 1: you're just jealous and you're like, I think it's a
47:01
Speaker 1: terrible move, but sure, okay.
47:05
Speaker 3: I can't take what you're saying seriously here, Yeah, no,
47:08
Speaker 3: I mean totally one hundred percent. And to be able
47:12
Speaker 3: to recognize that and being like, okay, maybe at first
47:14
Speaker 3: it was a little too close like that also takes
47:17
Speaker 3: a certain amount of professionalism and to be able to
47:20
Speaker 3: be introspective, to be like hmmm, Okay, I see what's
47:23
Speaker 3: happening here, and like, I don't know if this in
47:26
Speaker 3: this moment is serving me, but it could be something
47:28
Speaker 3: that serves me down the line.
47:29
Speaker 2: Sure.
47:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, with the show, what's the guarantee for how long?
47:35
Speaker 2: We definitely have nobody asked us.
47:37
Speaker 1: As long as no one cancels us, which never a week.
47:41
Speaker 1: But I think we should be podcasting through twenty twenty eight.
47:45
Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of like the goal for
47:47
Speaker 1: us use the Olympics to really tell athlete stories, and
47:52
Speaker 1: that's kind of why we started it. One to have
47:54
Speaker 1: tough conversations about things in the industry, just try a
47:58
Speaker 1: weigh in from a bunch of different perspectives and give
48:02
Speaker 1: that to an audience who maybe doesn't see all the
48:04
Speaker 1: sides of it, because to have that professional perspective is
48:09
Speaker 1: rare and to have it shared is kind of rare.
48:11
Speaker 1: But then also tell athletes stories. I mean, I think
48:13
Speaker 1: Karen and I have been super lucky to be able
48:15
Speaker 1: to build a platform around the sport and because of
48:19
Speaker 1: the sport, so using that to share stories of athletes
48:22
Speaker 1: who are doing amazing things and maybe don't quite have
48:25
Speaker 1: that exposure yet, I think is an opportunity that we
48:28
Speaker 1: really love and definitely want to carry into the twenty
48:32
Speaker 1: eight games.
48:33
Speaker 3: Well, I love hearing that we have you until at
48:35
Speaker 3: least twenty twenty eight from the podcast POV, and I
48:38
Speaker 3: also really appreciate that you're someone who does care so
48:42
Speaker 3: deeply about the integrity and the culture of running. So
48:47
Speaker 3: with that said, what would you say right now about running?
48:52
Speaker 3: And I'll leave it kind of open ended here is
48:56
Speaker 3: kind of keeping you up at night? And what is
49:00
Speaker 3: something that you would say is really exciting you most
49:04
Speaker 3: about the sport right now? So maybe like problematic, really exciting?
49:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think I hate that this is
49:11
Speaker 1: even getting traction at all, but I'll do it.
49:14
Speaker 2: I'll go there.
49:15
Speaker 1: We did the podcast about stage candidate and campaigns and
49:19
Speaker 1: like this, you know, doping within the masses, which I
49:24
Speaker 1: don't think is not a problem.
49:25
Speaker 2: I think it has.
49:26
Speaker 1: It's a very big problem. But I do think that
49:30
Speaker 1: there's boundaries of professional and professionalism and those expectations and
49:34
Speaker 1: requirements like are significantly higher than participatory people should be
49:41
Speaker 1: worried about. Not saying they shouldn't have rules. I'm just
49:45
Speaker 1: saying that the rules for the professionals are really, really
49:47
Speaker 1: heightened and strict, and to understand those is not it's
49:51
Speaker 1: a whole career. And so I think personally, like figuring
49:56
Speaker 1: out for the participatory and the masses what rules make
49:59
Speaker 1: sense very specifically for them would be a great problem
50:03
Speaker 1: to solve. Like it's not the wild West, you can't
50:05
Speaker 1: go crazy, but do you need to be held to
50:08
Speaker 1: professional standards?
50:09
Speaker 2: I don't know.
50:10
Speaker 1: There's a conversation there, So that's bothering me. And then
50:14
Speaker 1: what am I excited about? I mean, the times are
50:18
Speaker 1: incredible obviously watching two men go sub two in London,
50:21
Speaker 1: that's just crazy.
50:22
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder, you know.
50:24
Speaker 1: Where the sport is going, what are the barriers we're
50:27
Speaker 1: going to see you fall? What is the equivalent on
50:30
Speaker 1: the women's side in the marathon? And then always like
50:34
Speaker 1: getting excited about the up and comers. I think the
50:37
Speaker 1: sport moves and changes so fast, like we see that
50:40
Speaker 1: with the gosh men's and women's eight hundred meters just
50:43
Speaker 1: recently this week, how fast people are running and they're
50:46
Speaker 1: like seventeen and like twenty two.
50:48
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's great.
50:49
Speaker 3: I mean there, well even and then like the University
50:53
Speaker 3: of Georgia, Yeah, freshman, that ran a ten six' three this, week,
50:58
Speaker 3: right the, hundred.
50:59
Speaker 2: Like the fastest of all.
51:01
Speaker 1: Time this is, wild, right like inc doua a meeting
51:05
Speaker 1: a world record, Set like make that make. Sense BUT
51:08
Speaker 1: i think like youth is just booming right, now like
51:12
Speaker 1: interest in the. SPORT i Think nil's played a, big
51:16
Speaker 1: big part in that big impact in. That so, YEAH
51:18
Speaker 1: i MEAN i think just watching the up and comers
51:21
Speaker 1: and where they move the sport is going to be
51:23
Speaker 1: really fascinating and like just how quickly it's, Moving like
51:26
Speaker 1: by twenty twenty, eight what kind of records are we
51:29
Speaker 1: going to be looking?
51:29
Speaker 2: At and who are the?
51:30
Speaker 1: Names like there's probably people we don't even we've never
51:34
Speaker 1: even heard of yet that like might make you Know
51:36
Speaker 1: olympic teams and really be on the podium and it
51:39
Speaker 1: just it's happening.
51:40
Speaker 2: Fast so that's.
51:41
Speaker 3: Cool, yeah it's it's absolutely wild to see the. TIMING
51:45
Speaker 3: i agree with, You AND i also would be remiss
51:48
Speaker 3: IF i didn't ask you after doing That Nobody's Gonna
51:52
Speaker 3: Like us episode when you were talking about the guys
51:56
Speaker 3: and all the controversy, there how do you handle like
52:00
Speaker 3: so much of the expected flack that's going to come your,
52:04
Speaker 3: way because on something like, that everyone's going to have an.
52:06
Speaker 1: Opinion, sure AND i think that That's like WHAT i
52:10
Speaker 1: remind myself, is, okay how many people applied for The London.
52:13
Speaker 2: Marathon how many people applied to get?
52:14
Speaker 1: In there's like one point three million or, something, Right,
52:16
Speaker 1: yes so you're trying to speak for that size of.
52:19
Speaker 1: Audience good luck getting it right for. Everyone if everyone loves,
52:23
Speaker 1: you you stand for nothing and you probably didn't solve.
52:26
Speaker 2: Anything and it's.
52:28
Speaker 1: Fine, Again, LIKE i don't have a problem with people
52:32
Speaker 1: saying you're totally wrong or you've missed or you didn't.
52:34
Speaker 1: CONSIDER i think ultimately generally people want the one good.
52:41
Speaker 1: Thing it's just we have different sides that we're looking at.
52:45
Speaker 1: It and IF i shine the light on something THAT
52:48
Speaker 1: i see and you shine it from a different, angle
52:50
Speaker 1: we might not even see the same what looks like
52:52
Speaker 1: the same, object, right but we.
52:53
Speaker 3: Might AM i AM i remembering correctly that you said
52:55
Speaker 3: that you went off of.
52:57
Speaker 2: THREADS i did go off of threads that feeling for.
53:00
Speaker 1: YOU i never was really on, it BUT i do
53:04
Speaker 1: feel like the few TIMES i did go on.
53:07
Speaker 2: It it felt very.
53:08
Speaker 1: POLARIZED i don't, know and SO i don't really use
53:13
Speaker 1: X i THINK i reposted an article.
53:15
Speaker 2: TODAY i don't really use.
53:18
Speaker 1: THREADS i don't really use any sort of Like twitter
53:21
Speaker 1: short like type stuff. ANYMORE i did just get in A.
53:26
Speaker 1: LinkedIn that's.
53:27
Speaker 2: Exciting you have a? LinkedIn, yes you've already. Here first
53:31
Speaker 2: everyone it's got nothing on.
53:33
Speaker 1: It BUT i had like all these contacts at EVENT
53:36
Speaker 1: i was at recently that everyone's On, LinkedIn AND i was,
53:38
Speaker 1: LIKE i Guess i'm doing this.
53:39
Speaker 2: Now what's Your brooks? Title are you still the chief
53:42
Speaker 2: Running officer advisor for The?
53:44
Speaker 3: Advisor? Oh that can definitely go on your.
53:47
Speaker 2: LinkedIn, yeah you're very excited about. That so welcome to the.
53:52
Speaker 3: Club but you, Know LinkedIn is an interesting place because
53:54
Speaker 3: it is a place that most people simply go to
53:58
Speaker 3: humble brag about their.
53:59
Speaker 2: Professionalomplishments oh, yeah it's tolly WHY i was, There.
54:04
Speaker 3: But, like professional accomplishments are going to be so much
54:07
Speaker 3: more fun to read about than like someone that doesn't
54:11
Speaker 3: do physical things for a.
54:12
Speaker 2: LIVING i absolutely love.
54:17
Speaker 3: It, Well i'm looking forward to your in feed updates
54:19
Speaker 3: on LinkedIn whenever it is that they may, come and
54:22
Speaker 3: that will be the first thing THAT i do when
54:24
Speaker 3: we hang up today is go up over there and
54:26
Speaker 3: follow you On?
54:27
Speaker 2: LinkedIn is It Desiray? London? Great great.
54:31
Speaker 1: QUESTION i don't think it, is But i'm not.
54:33
Speaker 2: SURE i cannot confirm or.
54:37
Speaker 3: Deny, Okay so now that again you've been home for
54:41
Speaker 3: a month and a, half you've had some. Time you
54:43
Speaker 3: did say that there are some racists and things that
54:47
Speaker 3: interest you that could be fun on the. Calendar but
54:49
Speaker 3: what is the rest of the year looking like for?
54:51
Speaker 2: Does?
54:53
Speaker 1: Yeah SO i HAVE i have a game plan in.
54:55
Speaker 1: Mind got soft leaks. Today if you read The Runner's
54:59
Speaker 1: world are, article, stay go for THE mds, stories stay
55:03
Speaker 1: for the race announcement that was unplanned mentioned in. There that's,
55:07
Speaker 1: okay but, Yeah i'm going to go LONGER i. HAVE
55:10
Speaker 1: i would like to Run Chicago marathon as a build up.
55:13
Speaker 1: RACE i want to get out to the desert and
55:15
Speaker 1: do a training camp and then potentially Run rim To
55:18
Speaker 1: rim To rim whilst out, there WHICH i think would be.
55:21
Speaker 1: Awesome and then right, now the game plan would be
55:26
Speaker 1: To runjvelen a hundred in the.
55:28
Speaker 2: Fall, Nice all?
55:30
Speaker 3: Right how does that make you feel as you're like
55:33
Speaker 3: starting to put out your like big Scary harry audisious
55:35
Speaker 3: goals into the.
55:35
Speaker 2: World i'm.
55:37
Speaker 1: EXCITED i think the hundred k and THE mds stuff
55:40
Speaker 1: really made me mentally prepared for what the hundred miler would,
55:45
Speaker 1: be you, know running for thirteen hours or whatever that day,
55:48
Speaker 1: was twelve or thirteen, hours like time one, Feet, Like
55:50
Speaker 1: i'm pretty pretty. Close take off the, pack take off
55:53
Speaker 1: the extra mileage out of, taper put some real aid
55:56
Speaker 1: stations in. There all of a, Sudden you're, Like, wow
55:57
Speaker 1: that MIGHT i might be able to do. That So
56:00
Speaker 1: i'm excited to find out IF i can or.
56:03
Speaker 2: NOT i, MEAN i have no doubt that you.
56:05
Speaker 3: Can AND i also think when you say it like
56:07
Speaker 3: that and you talk about like all of the things
56:09
Speaker 3: that can be working for you in a situation such As,
56:12
Speaker 3: Helena it's, like, wow it actually FEELS i say this
56:16
Speaker 3: as a complete person on the, sidelines very.
56:19
Speaker 2: Doable.
56:21
Speaker 1: YEAH i mean IF i hadn't done that hundred, K
56:24
Speaker 1: i would have far less. Confidence i'd be, LIKE i don't,
56:28
Speaker 1: Know i've never run over four hours three and a,
56:31
Speaker 1: half well four or forty With anthony right time on,
56:35
Speaker 1: feet that's a.
56:36
Speaker 2: Lot that's a big. Jump but having.
56:38
Speaker 1: Done, it And i'm, Like, OKAY i didn't die still. Here,
56:42
Speaker 1: yeah so there's a.
56:43
Speaker 2: SHOT i, mean there's definitely a. Shot it's.
56:46
Speaker 3: All it's all like proof is in the, pudding, Right
56:48
Speaker 3: like everything that we do leads us up into the
56:51
Speaker 3: moment that we are preparing, for whether or not we
56:54
Speaker 3: realize that those things were actually in the act of.
56:58
Speaker 2: Preparation.
56:59
Speaker 3: Right so it's like the not only the time on
57:02
Speaker 3: fee and the, racing but also like the mental toughness
57:05
Speaker 3: and all those things you were saying, before about the
57:07
Speaker 3: things that you were thinking about in the, desert and
57:09
Speaker 3: the decision not to wear the, headphones like all of
57:11
Speaker 3: those things eventually help you to become this like next
57:15
Speaker 3: version of, yourself which is pretty.
57:17
Speaker 2: Awesome, yeah thank, You, YEAH i mean. Welcome how often
57:21
Speaker 2: you think people miss?
57:22
Speaker 1: That like you know WHAT i, Mean like you're always in,
57:24
Speaker 1: process BUT i feel like people just see an arrival
57:26
Speaker 1: and they're, like, oh that's so, amazing like that just
57:30
Speaker 1: kind of came out of, nowhere and then they have
57:32
Speaker 1: that same mentality in their own lives and, like, no
57:35
Speaker 1: you've built these tools and you've put this skill set.
57:38
Speaker 1: Together BUT i think people often miss.
57:40
Speaker 3: That what do you think that you're kind of working
57:43
Speaker 3: on right now behind the, scenes AND i don't necessarily
57:47
Speaker 3: mean more of a, project but like as someone who
57:50
Speaker 3: is enthusiastic about like the opportunity to become better and
57:53
Speaker 3: the opportunity to like always be.
57:54
Speaker 2: LEARNING i admire that about.
57:56
Speaker 3: You so, like what would you say right now you're
57:59
Speaker 3: working on as an, individual that's like helping you progress
58:03
Speaker 3: towards the things that you're excited.
58:04
Speaker 2: About, YEAH i MEAN i think very.
58:06
Speaker 1: SPECIFICALLY i just did this couple day course with a business,
58:11
Speaker 1: class and it was just these really amazing people who
58:14
Speaker 1: think really, broadly and well they're not, broadly but they
58:19
Speaker 1: are the top the tip of the spear and, media
58:22
Speaker 1: entertainment and sports and so like thinking about where running could,
58:25
Speaker 1: go the challenges we, have and like lining it up
58:29
Speaker 1: with these other industries and these people in these other.
58:31
Speaker 1: INDUSTRIES i think it's interesting to start considering whether my
58:36
Speaker 1: place in like the future is in the sport or
58:40
Speaker 1: maybe it's in one of these other avenues and you
58:43
Speaker 1: take the learnings from here and apply them somewhere. Else so,
58:47
Speaker 1: yeah next steps for, sure but also just like trying
58:50
Speaker 1: to literally get in the class and.
58:51
Speaker 2: Learn so, okay, wait like this course sounds really.
58:54
Speaker 3: Interesting, yeah was it like an online.
58:59
Speaker 1: Group it was A Harvard Business school. Class it's called
59:03
Speaker 1: The business Of Entertainment media In, sports and just a
59:08
Speaker 1: really incredible group of, people a great professor as you
59:11
Speaker 1: would imagine being In. Harvard, yeah and like walked away
59:14
Speaker 1: just being like There's i've picked up so. Much i'm
59:17
Speaker 1: trying to absorb it and, like, wow what DO i
59:20
Speaker 1: want to do? NEXT i Think i've learned so much
59:23
Speaker 1: from the, Space but, oh these other, places there's so
59:26
Speaker 1: many parallels where you could take the experience if you
59:29
Speaker 1: can prove that this experience.
59:31
Speaker 3: Exists did you know someone else that took that? Course,
59:35
Speaker 3: like how did you catch wind of?
59:36
Speaker 2: That, yeah it's.
59:38
Speaker 1: There they pick up some really great talent every, year
59:41
Speaker 1: Like Lindsay vaughan's done. IT i Think schiffrin's been, There Sebastian,
59:45
Speaker 1: vettel like really big names.
59:47
Speaker 2: In sports and.
59:49
Speaker 1: ENTERTAINMENT i THINK i took a class last fall that
59:53
Speaker 1: was with the same. Professor but basically you get paired
59:55
Speaker 1: up with mentors at The Business, school so they're in.
59:58
Speaker 1: School cool and did that first semester and then had
1:00:02
Speaker 1: a couple opportunities to chat with the professor through that
1:00:04
Speaker 1: and THEN i was, like, Oh i'm gonna apply for.
1:00:05
Speaker 1: This WELL i had already, applied BUT i got into
1:00:08
Speaker 1: this program THAT i just got back, from so it was.
1:00:11
Speaker 2: Great, yeah, SHOOT i am Does i'm. INSPIRED i want
1:00:16
Speaker 2: to take. It you're like Des, Linden, ELWOODS i don't
1:00:18
Speaker 2: know Who i'm talking to you.
1:00:19
Speaker 1: Anymore, YEAH i honestly just just wanted to drop The.
1:00:22
Speaker 2: Harvard you, know.
1:00:23
Speaker 1: Three bought the.
1:00:25
Speaker 2: Merch did you get the? Merch?
1:00:28
Speaker 1: NO i MEAN i got a hitdie for. Sure but it's,
1:00:30
Speaker 1: like very everyone get the.
1:00:32
Speaker 2: Merch you deserve the.
1:00:34
Speaker 3: Hoodie you deserve that you give them enough. Money you
1:00:36
Speaker 3: deserve to spend more money to get the. Hoodie to
1:00:38
Speaker 3: tell people that you spent money At.
1:00:40
Speaker 2: Harvard it's very. Simple you'll never notice.
1:00:43
Speaker 3: It, Well i'm really happy that we had a chance
1:00:47
Speaker 3: to catch up, today AND i am really excited to
1:00:51
Speaker 3: follow along with your fall of racing and then a
1:00:55
Speaker 3: personally enroll in the Des Linden school Of education at
1:01:02
Speaker 3: a bar In New York city very.
1:01:04
Speaker 2: Soon, Yeah i'll put on a.
1:01:05
Speaker 3: Lecture the people that are, listening they're no doubtedly already following,
1:01:12
Speaker 3: you but just in case they're living under a rock
1:01:14
Speaker 3: give me the.
1:01:14
Speaker 2: Deats where do they find you? Online how do they
1:01:16
Speaker 2: keep up with? You?
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Yeah head To instagram very. Active there does Underscore. Linden
1:01:21
Speaker 1: That's Dees Underscore. Linden or check out my. YouTube i
1:01:26
Speaker 1: do have a YouTube and that's pretty, new so check that.
1:01:29
Speaker 1: Out it should be linked in my bio or just
1:01:32
Speaker 1: search me in the youtubes and we've got some good.
1:01:34
Speaker 3: Talks can we talk about YouTube really quick BEFORE i
1:01:37
Speaker 3: let you?
1:01:37
Speaker 1: Go?
1:01:37
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:01:38
Speaker 3: Absolutely what's that process like for? You and was it
1:01:41
Speaker 3: intimidating for you to start?
1:01:42
Speaker 2: THERE i.
1:01:44
Speaker 1: Don't WHEN i, STARTED i was, like this is so
1:01:46
Speaker 1: not for. Me i'm too old for, This like no one.
1:01:48
Speaker 1: Cares But i've been able to figure out slowly WHAT
1:01:54
Speaker 1: i like to put, there and then it's a matter
1:01:57
Speaker 1: of like figuring out the next, steps like DO i
1:01:59
Speaker 1: want growth on that? Platform WHICH i think it's super
1:02:02
Speaker 1: valuable and it makes a lot of. Sense but that
1:02:04
Speaker 1: means being in front of the camera, more putting content
1:02:07
Speaker 1: out more, frequently and obviously extending. Myself and every time
1:02:11
Speaker 1: you do, that it's like another opportunity for soone to
1:02:13
Speaker 1: be mad at.
1:02:13
Speaker 2: You but that's, OKAY i.
1:02:15
Speaker 1: Think, Yeah i'm still dabbling with the best way to
1:02:19
Speaker 1: get it. Done and each YEAR i try to do two,
1:02:21
Speaker 1: projects and so we'll do something most likely most Likely,
1:02:26
Speaker 1: navolino which makes. Sense but and then next year maybe
1:02:29
Speaker 1: it'll be a different strategy where it's more frequently but
1:02:32
Speaker 1: less beautifully produced or.
1:02:35
Speaker 2: Something it's playing around with, it AND i have a
1:02:37
Speaker 2: nice budget to be able to do, that which is. Great.
1:02:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, NO i mean it's inspiring for. Me YouTube's pin
1:02:42
Speaker 3: a goal. Forever So i'm taking. Notes i'm watching and taking. Notes,
1:02:46
Speaker 3: Yes i'm over At Emily abodi At Hurdle. Podcasts Another hurdle.
1:02:52
Speaker 3: Conquered catch you guys next. Time