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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Deadly First Date Dinner, Drinks, Dismemberment- The Sade Robinson Murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan in nineteen ninety four, had
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the good fortune of being tasked with being parper group.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: It was a group that was actually established by the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: National Institute of Justice through the Federal Justice Department, and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: what we were tasked with was designing the national standards
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: for medical legal death investigators nationwide. And I got to
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: tell you, out of everything I did in my career,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: pretty dull one proud of that. You guys can go
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: look at them. They're available there. Just go to nij
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: dot gov and you can search it out. It's there.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: But you know, part of that journey to develop those standards,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: which was roughly about a I don't know, probably about
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a three year process, was the travel that I had
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to do. And out of all the cities that I
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: traveled to while I was developing these, my favorite soon
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: became Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Now Milwaukee, for those of you that
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: don't know, is a neat place by virtue of the
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: fact of there's so many cultures there, and particularly German
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and Polish culture, and growing up in the South, I
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: was never really exposed to their food that much, and
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: boy was food great. I really enjoyed it. And I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: enjoyed the people too, and the beauty. We were like
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: actually on the shore of Lake Michigan. I'd always been
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to the ocean, you know, I had never even seen
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the That was my first introduction of the Great Lakes,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and it's just so gorgeous. The water was so beautiful.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, around that same time, there was a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: real evil that had occurred in Milwaukee in the form
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: of a person named Jeffrey Dahmer, and the guy that
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: headed up the committee, who was the chief medical examiner
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: for Milwaukee, had handled those cases. Today, on body Bags,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that has just occurred
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: in the last few days in the city that I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: really love, Milwaukee, and it is a horrific case, a
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: horrific case involving a young woman who was right on
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the cusp of entering in to full adulthood, making her
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: way in this world, and unfortunately she died at the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: hands of an apparent monster who wasn't just satisfied with
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: killing her, he also felt the need to dismember her.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Vats. Dave
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: you ever been to Milwaukee. I have not, You have not,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: no It's a cool trip I felt. I've been to Chicago.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Chicago felt a bit overwhelming to me. It's so spread out,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: it's really big. I don't think people really realize how
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: close Milwaukee and Chicago are. It's literally traveled northward on
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the interstate and you will eventually hit Milwaukee. And Wisconsin
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: itself is a beautiful state, green, lush, rolling hills. I
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: found the people to be very friendly, and if you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: enjoy beer, it's a great place. And if you enjoy
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: German food, oh my lord, it is incredible, very rich.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And since this time, since back in nineteen ninety four,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I've been back up there many times and have just
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: fallen in love with a place. Love going up there
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and checking it out.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I have to wonder, how can a place this so
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: beautiful that you have such fond memories of, that has
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: so much history. How can it be home to two
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: of the sickest murderers, Jeffrey Dahmer and now Maxwell allegedly
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Maxwell Anderson.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah that possible, Yeah, yeah, I think about that as well.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: We know that there's evil out there.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Until this evil took place, it was exactly as you're
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: explaining it was for shaw Day Robinson. She was excited
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: about a first date with the guy. Shaw Day is
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: a wonderful, smart a person. Everybody liked, the person who
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: never called out at work. Everybody liked work. Everybody felt
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: like the world was a better place.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: With her in it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And she was excited. She was talking to people about
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: this date she was going on when they were texting
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: back and forth. Been her and Maxwell Anderson. You know
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: about where to eat? She said, I'm feeling seafood, feeling seafood.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So he takes her to a place he used to work.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: That's where they went to eat seafood. And she goes
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: on this date just like anyone else goes on a date.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: They had a fun time. They eat dinner. They then
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: go and have a couple of drinks, just being together,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: getting to know one another on a first date. It
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: seemed like they're having a great time.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I think. I think. Actually the bartender saw these two
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: at the bar, didn't they Yeah, And they weren't fighting
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: or anything.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: No, No, they were again, it was a great first date.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: It was a great first date on every angle except
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: for how it ended. And how it ended was they
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: go back to his apartment. Now I point this out.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: It was a great first date. They hadn't they didn't meet.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a blind date. I mean, it wasn't like
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: they had no communication beforehand. They had you know, they
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: had built up a time together communicating with one another
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to leading up to this first date. And then the
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: first date goes well and they end up going back
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: to Maxwell Anderson's place. That's how so you know, the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: date wasn't crazy. They weren't violently fighting with or arguing
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: or anything else.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: They well, they don't have any history. They don't have
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: any history. I mean, you have to have history most
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of the time in a relationship to fight about something.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, where are you going to find common ground
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: to fight on? You know? I mean this is a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: first state. You wouldn't expect that. That's I think that
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that's what makes this really a bit darker.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Which is why it fits into what you were saying
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: about Milwaukee, about the area, about it has all these
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: great things that you can put together with it, yet
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: it can it can also have this type of behavior
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: that goes well beyond anything you and I would ever imagine.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: But now, Joe, ever since we went to crime con
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: last fall and did the show about people being dismembered, right,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: and you talked about this is really becoming common. And
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: here we are again with another episode where a person
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is accused of luring somebody and that O don't the house.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: You can prove because of what happened. It's like he
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: had to have been putting a different face forward to
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: her to lure her through the whole night, very engaging,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: very nice, And they go back to his apartment where
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: he then kills her and cuts her up allegedly allegedly. Yeah,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: and then wait a minute, but that's not where the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: shock ends, Joe. No, he doesn't just leave her there.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: He doesn't just go and dig a hole in the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: backyard and put No. He then allegedly starts spreading her
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: body parts around to just be found by people for
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a shock value. Is the guy writing a script for
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: a horror movie? What makes somebody Joseph Scott Morgan get
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to the point where it's no longer just enough to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: cut a body up of somebody you've just had a
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: great date with, to cut them up and then make
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: sure that regular people walk in the street, earl walking
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: certain areas could find these body parts and hey, let
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: me draw a little of attention to myself and set
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: the car on fire so that that can draw attention
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: back to her.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: That's a fascinating point. It makes me. You know, first off,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I've covered dismemberment cases and many times dismembered parts will
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: be packaged some and then they'll be deposited into some
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: kind of wastebind, and you know where you can have
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: a passerby that are a homeless person that's digging in
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: the wastebind they find this part. You know, it's a
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: big shock. And many times you think, well, the perpetrators
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: trying obviously trying to obscure what they've done, and they
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: want to put as much distance between themselves and those
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: dismembered remains. But what you're talking about, it actually makes
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: me reflect back to a series of serial killings back
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans many years ago that I worked. I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: think I caught too. This guy killed a whole series
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: of people, but I caught too, and Dave, this was
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: really interesting, interesting finding when he would kill he would
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: kill prostitutes. And when he would kill them, first off,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: he would redress them and only in their underwear, and
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the underwear was always turned inside out and forgive me,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the diagram, the name of the diagram,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: But do you know the drawing that Leonardo da Vinci
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: did that shows anatomical men with the arms spread upward
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: like this and the body makes kind of an X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: each one of these bodies Dave was in that position,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: legs spread, arms extended diagonally upward, and he would surround
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the body with tires. And here's the one thing about
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: that case. And I came to the same conclusion that
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you just came to about these deposition of remains. He
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: did not want individuals to smell the bodies, because you
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: can't smell anything if you've got a huge collection of tires.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: All these bodies were found in like industrial areas where
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: there'd be like a big deposition of old tires, so
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: someone would have to visually find these bodies. And to
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: a person that discovered these bodies, they were shocked because
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the body is decomposing and you can't smell it past
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the tire. I actually remember conducting an experiment. We were
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: along industrial Canal in New Orleans and there was a
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: rotten dead catfish. This is on the second case, and
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I picked up the catfish, and I put it into
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the center of a tire just to test this hypothesis.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And the more tires are stacked that I stacked with
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the catfish down at the bottom. You couldn't smell the catfish,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: and rotten catfish stinks. And so I think that a
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: lot of this goes the deposition of remains here. There's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: no rhyme to it necessarily. I'm really interesting if they're
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: going to do like a geographic profile in this case.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I think that this is ripe for this that try
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to understand where these remains are deposited and what knowledge
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: would the perpetrator have about the location? Are you selecting
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: these because people walk their dogs, take their kids to
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: play in the park. You know there's a nice bench
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: where you're going to sit down. Is that the case?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Because if it is this, this is how bleak this
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: becomes really really quick. Dave, the idea here is that
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: not only do you want to murder Shade, but you
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: want to take her body and use it to terrify
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: an entire city. With my brother, Dave, educate me, man,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: what's the Leonardo da Vinci diagram? Called again that I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: could not remember.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: The trouvian man and b I t are you v
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: I A n.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Listen everybody, Well, you can't say everybody. The lion's share
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of the population has seen this. I knew what you
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: were talking about. I had to do.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I had to hit it. And all I could think
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of when I was looking at it is Joe. I'm
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: glad you walked away from doing what you were doing,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm glad you're teaching now because people like me
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: that are have reported and investigated things have no idea
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: about the things that you talk about on a daily
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: basis and explain. And I know that I appreciate being
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: a part of this because it gives me a different
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: look at things. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: just I had no idea how people really I'm not
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: as shocked at things anymore. I'm more shocked. Does that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: make sense?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. And I think a lot of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: it is in with Chade's case. You think that it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: kind of this progression into hell if you will, and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you and it's in degrees, okay, and you begin to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: think about you sit around, it's like you think about
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: how much more evil can this get? And that's a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: terrible thing to throw out there because the world will say, Okay,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I'll show you how much more evil this can time
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: every single time. And I really think, from an academic standpoint,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I really need to start doing a study about these
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: dismemberment cases. We've talked about it several times. There seems
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: to be an uptick and this is happening, and I
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: think that it goes to a level of callousness that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: perhaps that we haven't experienced in modern times certainly, and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: ancient times perhaps, But it is the most evil thing
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that you can do. And you know, just the other day,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I had the privilege of appearing on Nancy's program on
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Merritt Street Media with her, and you know, Dave, my
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: heart was breaking because Chade's mom was on there with us.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: And I can't and I don't know that any of
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: us can actually begin to fathom the depths of grief
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and pain. It's hard enough, and this is real. I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: know this is rote to say that it's hard enough
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to lose a child, but when you lose a child
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: in this manner and you don't have your child whole,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: think about that just for a second, and you're getting
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: notified by the police. Her body is being discovered piecemeal,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and every single time it's almost like Shaddy's mother is
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: having to relive this notification over and over and over
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and over again. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Please please take
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: me back to that period where they made the first discovery,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: because one of the things I was hearing was they
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: had discovered a foot with pink toneill polish on it.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: You know, the when you were talking about them continuing
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: to find and her her mother doing the show with Nancy.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: You know, she has refused all other invitations for interviews.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: She only did the show with Nancy because she thought
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: one she loves Nancy, She'll do one national show and
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: if y'all want to know what I'm thinking, use that
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: interview with her. And that's what they're doing in coverage.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But the fact that it's gone on for almost three
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: weeks now is we're taping this and they're still finding
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: body parts in the last eighteen hours. The shot goes
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: beyond anything I can imagine in looking at when this
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: took place. Shaw Day would have graduated from college in
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: May with her associates degree, and she was a month
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: away from being twenty nineteen years old.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Getting it.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I mean not not even a totally legal adult yet
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: right now, and goes out on this date with Maxwell Anderson. Now,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: we got two ways of going through this. Let's start
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: with her car found burning. Okay, let me start right there,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: because that's when the attention started to get drawn into
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Somebody's gone Shawdey Robinson's car is found burning seven thirty
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: in the morning. It's a blue Honda Civic. A witness
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: sees a man with a tan backpack get out of
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the car. Man throws a lit lighter inside the driver's side.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Car ignites. Man walks away towards a bus stop. The
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: witness lags down passing cars. Hey call nine one one. Meanwhile,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Maxwell Anderson is seen carrying this tan backpack on a
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: bus camera, because there are cameras everywhere. The next day,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: April second, her right leg was found at Warnamont Park.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: The leg was found by a civilian on the beach
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: north of the pumphouse. There is a cliff leading down
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: to the beach and the leg appeared to have been
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: sawed off at the hip. Now, according to what we
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: were told from the very beginning, the leg appeared to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: be long to a black female about five feet tall.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Still had pink nail polish on the toes. Joe. The
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: femur was snapped off. Yeah, the bone was sawed halfway through,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: and all I could think of, and I hate to
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: even say this, but for anybody who has ever had
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to cut a tree, yep, you're cutting a tree limb,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: you get halfway through it, and you're tired and you
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: just snap.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Is that what they're saying happened with her femur?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that would approximate it. And it's Look, it's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the same principle here and as you know, it sets
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: your teeth on edge, you know when you hear this.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing when an individual would attempt. First off,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: most people, and we've talked about this, Lord help us,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: when most people, I think, endeavor to do a dismemberment,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: they don't think about having to get through the soft tissue,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: and it gets very frustrating, particularly if you're using and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: at this point we don't know what type of tool
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: was used, and I've had cases involving I think of
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: this young lady out in Seattle I covered a couple
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of years ago. He had used a bosaw like you
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: trim your bushes with and done that in the bathtub,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and it's very rough going. If you know, in the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: morgue we have scalpels, you know, in these sorts of instruments,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: very sharp scissors, and we can go through soft tissue
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to get to the bone. But if the only instrument
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: that you have is in fact a saw, and it
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: can even be a power saw, that is not created
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: in order to go through soft tissue. And so when
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you get down to the actual shaft of a long bone.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You had mentioned the femur, which you have many times,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: is that it's just like sawing wood. Forensic anthropologists study
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: these things where and there are some forensic anthropologists, believe
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: it or not, that specialize indismemberment. That's all they study.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: They study tool marks on bones. It's a fascinating field.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: It's gruesome, but it's a fascinating feel from that perspective.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: They'll have these stop starts, and you can identify with
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: this with sawing a piece of wood. Have you ever
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: saw it and then gotten out of the groove. Well,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: every time you do that, you put an additional mark
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: on the piece of wood. Same thing applies to bone.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It's hard work. It makes no mistake about it. If
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: you're so frustrated and you've gotten down and this is
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: just one limb we're talking about, Dave, one limb it
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: has to be then if you get frustrated, you got
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to snap it off and then detach the rest of
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the soft tissue. You're frustrated, you've burned up all over
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: your energy. Now what are you going to do? Well?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe the perpetrator thinking about you know, I'm going to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: take these items out, these elements of the body and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: deposit them in various places as I build back up
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: my energy. Then you go back and you do it again.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: You do it again, you do it again, and then
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: every time you're moving out of the house or whatever,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you're redepositing. Maybe at some point in time he saw
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it off, two appendages, and in one run he deposited
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: them in various locations. Who knows, we're going to find out,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: but there will be a tremendous amount of evidence. I
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: think in the basement of this home. What really kind
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of peaks my curiosity about this is not so much
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to dismemberment, as ghastly as that is. Are they going
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: to be capable of determining her cause of death? We
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: know the Manner's homicide. But how degraded were the remains
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: of how traumatized postmar I'm trump, I'm talking about where
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the remains is there's a bullet hole, if there's an
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: injury to the neck, this sort of thing. Is it
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: going to be compromised so that you're not going to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: be able to make out truly what happened? I think
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: that that that's going to be difficult. And you know,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the folks at the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's office, they
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: could do this one of two ways. They can say, Okay,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to take this recently arrived remain and set
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: it aside and before we do the totality of the examination.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Because they know that they've got this young woman missing,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: they're finding parts, so they wait until everything comes in.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Or a question to ask is are they examining each
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: remain as it comes in. My suspicion is they're waiting
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: until they get the body in totality, you know, until
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: they've recovered as much as they possibly can.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I think, Dave, with the leg being found, we didn't
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: think of the first leg being found being the first
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: first body part deposited. And that's not always the case.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It just happened to be the first one that was
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: fast one found. But there are things that they were
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: talking about where it was found. Are we talking about
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the alleged perpetrator throwing it in the water and it
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: floating up on the shore. Can you imagine what is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: he doing? Is he trying to hide it? What's he
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: trying to do? Is he trying to set it so
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: people will find it? Trying to throw it up? I
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: mean yeah to me, I mean, look allegedly again allegedly,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: here we go. One of the things that's been put forward,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and I find this quite fascinating, that is that there
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: was a hole dug in his backyard.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Of that home. And this home, by the way, when
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: you see the images of it, is neat as a pin.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: The grass is very well groomed, the house is very
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: well kept, it would appear. And you look at this
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and you think, okay, you've dug a hole in the backyard,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking, does this go to premeditation? You know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: what's the purpose of having this hole? Are you gonna
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, it's spring time, or you think about putting
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in a flower bed or putting in tomatoes? Because I
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that's what a defense attorney would say.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And you know you're it's a free country. You're welcome
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: digs me holes in your yard. I guess as you
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: want to. But from an investigative standpoint, if I'm seeing this,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, maybe thought it wasn't such a good
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: idea to have this deceased young lady on his premises
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: in the wake of the fact that he has been
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: spotted in a bar and a restaurant with her. He's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the last person that was seen with her alive. They're
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: going to come asking questions, and he doesn't want to
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: have to explain why she is buried in his backyard.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Years ago, I actually had a case, actually it was
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: a colleague of mine that had a case where a
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: plastic grocery store bag was found and contained within the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: bag was a head. And I remember the feeling that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I had in the wake of that discovery, and all
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: of us did. I think many of us at the
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Emmy's office had that feeling, the same idea, Well, when's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the rest of the body going to show up? And
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: in that case, all we were left with was ahead.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Nothing else ever showed up. And that does happen. It
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: does happen. So you take that idea, and I'm thinking
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: about the investigative staff at the Emmy's office, and of
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: course the police that are working this case. And I'm thinking, Dave,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: well are they Are they sitting on pens and needles?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine being the homicide detective assigned to this?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And You're thinking, Okay, let's take an inventory of what
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: we have at this point? Where else can we look?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Is the body ever going to be reconstituted to some level?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Because I got to tell you, just listening to Shade's
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: mother the other day, she ain't gonna have burial until
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: she has her baby back. And that's just that's the
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: reality of it. What do we have up to this point?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: And when were these items discovered?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Two things that got me, Joe. One was the fire man.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: We'll come to that. But my first thought when I
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: heard the car was on fire, I thought he did
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. The alleged perpetrator did
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. But if you've listened
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: to Joseph Scott Morgan long and if you know that
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the perpetrator, by lighting it on fire, didn't destroy evidence.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: He actually probably locked some evidence in we'll get into that.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: April first, Shade Robinson has disappeared. Had a date that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: evening April second, seven thirty am. Her car is on fire.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It's found burning in an alley five point thirty That afternoon,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: her car is at seven thirty am on fire. She's
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: missing five point thirty to the afternoon. The human leg
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: with the pink toenails is found in Warnamont Park. Two
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: days later, Maxwell Anderson is brought in for questioning because
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: they know that he was last on with her. The
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: next day, April fifth, three days after the first body
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: part was found, another body part found, this time near
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: thirtieth in Lisbon. The next day, human remains located near
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: thirty first Angalina. April seventh, more human remains located near
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: thirty first in Walnut. The next day, April eighth. Officers
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: are still combing the park for evidence and collected more items.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: But when police find it, we don't know exactly what
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: they found. The only time we know what is actually
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: found is when a civilian finds it and they tell
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: us before the police do.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting back and I'm thinking, my lord, I mean,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: what else what else could their Torso?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, arm how about that that was found Joe just
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the other day. Yeah, we are three weeks now away
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: from this almost and her orso an arm of shade
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Robinson washed up on Milwaukee Beach.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: So that begs the question, doesn't it is he? Why
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: would an individual who is randomly doing these these deposits,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: why would he choose some of them to be Because
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, if we go back to the leg that's
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: on the beach, was this something that he had walked
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: out into the water or did he And if you've
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: never seen the Great League Lakes, they they do have.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Look it's not like going to Hawaii, but there is
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: kind of a surf that's there. You know, the current
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: will push things into the beach. You can see breakers,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you know, on the shore, particularly if the weather stormy,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: it looks like you're at the ocean. Did he not
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: walk the remains out there? Or did he take the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: remains and put them into a tributary and have them
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: washed down the tributary and they wind up flowing back
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: into the shore. I think that that's certainly something you know,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: to be considered. Here are these placements random? One of
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the things that keeps going through my head. Dave about
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: this case, is that is this the first time this
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: individual has done this? Because you're talking about brother, you're
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: talking about going from zero to a thousand, All right,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: this is not this is not like you know, you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: kind of slipped into these waters and you're doing things
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be doing. Is you begin to think
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: has he attacked other people? Has he been this? Is
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: there this level of violence? Has he used sharp instruments
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: on anybody even in a fight? Has he threatened to
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: carve somebody up? Here's another big one. Are there any
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: other women in Milwaukee that fit the description of shah
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Day that are missing? And I think that that that's
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: certainly something to consider where this would have to have
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: been done. You know, when you talk about dismemberment, you
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: have to have privacy. There's no way you're going to
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: roll out into the backyard and start doing this. You
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: have to have privacy. And from what I'm what I
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: am hearing, there's been a considerable amount of blood deposition
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: in his basement apartment essentially, or basement living.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Space actually in the hallway leading down on the stairway.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so was he dragging body parts up there?
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, and what else is in there. Here's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the other thing. When they sweep this area, when law
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: enforcement and I can assume that they have done this,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: when they bring in that team of forensic scientists, the
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: random sampling in that environment, you expect to find his DNA.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: You're going to find probably I think his parents actually
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: own the home and they've relocated to Florida. They're going
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: to find their DNA. Any of his buddies might find theirs.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: But is there any unidentified DNA that's down there? Is
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: there any DNA that they could perhaps profile where they
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: could do phenotyping or get an idea as to who
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: this individual may have been, who it belongs to, Because look,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that question has to be asked, and I think that
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the people in Milwaukee would want an answer to that,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: because if they've got young women that are missing, your
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: boy right here, he moves up to the top of
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: the list for me. I want to look through that home,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: any kind of vehicle he has, anything that he has,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I want to search it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Joe, Okay, just to give you an idea. His dad's
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: very wealthy, a rich businessman. Maxwell Anderson was a high
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: school football star. After he didn't really amount to a
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: whole lot. He's worked for his daut a couple of times,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: didn't really work out. He's ended up as a bartender
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: pretty much working as a bartender and what have you.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: In and around Milwaukee. He did run a foul of
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the law with the family members. It apparently has some
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: He's acted out a couple of times where police had
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: to be called. I'll give it that, but nothing like
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: this right now. Don't know if we have any other
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: women who have come forward to talk to police. We
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: don't know that yet, mainly because they have Maxwell Anderson
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: in jail. They've charged him with Shaw Dave Robinson's murder
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: and now they're putting the case together and they'll reach
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: out and if any women have come forward with other stories,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: they're probably looking, you know, that's what yeah.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Buddy, let me tell you. They're going through his phone.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: They're going through social media, any kind of dating apps
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that he has there. They're going to be looking and say, look,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: have you had contact with him? How did he behave
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And they'll be bringing each and every one of these
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: points of contact along, not to mention all of his coworkers,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you know, the people that were in the bar. Did
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: he ever get spicy with any of the patrons that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: came in there, you know, because fascinating. Yeah, go ahead,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: The night they were out, the night that he was out,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: it was like they went he went overboard to make
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: it not just a routine first date but a good
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: for a date. Because halfway through the night they took
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: a picture and sent it out. They're sending out Instagram
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: photos on their date. I mean, this guy was he
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: planned this out because look at what happens next. Follow
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: this timeline, Joe, It's very tight. Robinson and Anderson, they
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: go out to eat at a barhead a restaurant he
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: used to work at. Then they sit at the bar
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: and eat their food. Everybody sees them being pleasant. They
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: leave that restaurant, they go to Duke's on Water. A
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: pole camera actually picks them up and Robinson's Honda Civic
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: is parked at six thirty three. Six thirty four, Robinson
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: and Anderson get out of the car. Nine oh four,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Robinson and Anderson return to the car. Robinson and Anderson
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: are seen at Anderson's home by a neighbor's camera at
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: nine twenty four pm. There are two figures seen entering
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Anderson's backyard. This is one made me think about the
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: hole that you said he dug. At nine to twenty six,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: a living room light is turned on inside the home.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: At eleven twenty five eleven twenty five, a figure coming
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: in and out of the home into the backyard on
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and off until twelve forty five am. At twelve forty
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: seven am, Robinson's car departs Anderson's house. That would mean
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Shaw Deve Robinson's Honda Civic leaves Maxwell Anderson's home at
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: twelve forty seven am. We know they arrived and she
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: was fine, alive, walk well, assuming it's her. Two figures
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: entering the backyard at nine twenty four pm at eleven
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: twenty five, one person is seen going in and out
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: of the house for the next hour, and so you
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: know Delly leaves, So she's dead by eleven twenty five,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: two hours dead.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: You got up. Yeah, And if he had the tools
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: at his disposal at that point, Tom and he had
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: a location where he could do this effectively and efficiently
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: as mechanical as that sounds. Did he use the car
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: in order to transport these remains and deposit them? Was
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: this a one time deposition thing where he's he's just
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: making the rounds to all these various locations, and that
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: does in fact bring us to the car because my
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: understanding is that they have also found gasoline containers that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: he had at home. And here's the thing, if you
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: what people don't understand about using accelerants. I think that
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: it's fascinating. First off, that he strikes a lighter and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this is witnessed. He strikes a lighter outside of her
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: car and walks away, and then the next thing you know,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: the car is engulfed. And you know, I'm always picking
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: on Hollywood, I know, on the show, but cars just
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: don't explode, all right, like that. Now you can have problem,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you can have that it does happen. But that's the
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: exception as opposed to the norm, all right, particularly from
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: within the cockpit of the car itself, within where the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: driver's seat sits and all of this sort of thing.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: So there has to be an accelerant at work. What's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: going to happen with all of the material in that
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: car that they can save? And this is kind of fascinating.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: When the arson investigators work that car, they're going to
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: take samples from within that car, and they're going to
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: put them into this. They're going to put it into
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: a paint can, okay, and what will happen is those
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: items settle, Like if it's a cloth off of the seat,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: for instance.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Well, the paint can have it. They're gonna put it
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: in a paint can. What's in the pain can?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I say paint can. It's a can that looks
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: like a paint can. They're all silver and they're used
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: for collecting arson evidence. And so what happens is as
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: gravity takes hold and that that item settles to the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: bottom of the can, any fumes that are contained on
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: that item rise within that can, and they're going to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: take a big plunger and they're going to stick it
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: in there and they're going to draw off that gas.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: And then they're going to walk over to a GC
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: mass spec which is a gas chromatograph that's attached to
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a mass spect machine, and they're going to begin to
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: take that sample and run it through the machine and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: it gives you a chemical signature. All right. I'm not
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: going to go into all the details, but with the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: GC you begin to kind of formulate what is present, okay,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: within the sample. You can kind of get a generalized
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: idea when it's drawn over to the mass spec we're
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: talking about spectrometry, and so every element that you have
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: out there bends light in a certain way, and so
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about something like gas or ethanol, it's
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: going to refract I guess is the best way to
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: put it. It'll bend the light and it gives you
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a specific readout on this thing. All gas, like you
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: draw up at the gas station, is pretty much the same.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: What separates it though, is the detergents that the individual
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: companies put in there. So if we look at something
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: like VP or Texaco or Gulf or Shell Chevron, it
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter they all, you know, we see these things
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you know with I don't know, and they're not sponsoring
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the show. But whoever it is, it says, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: our gas has techron in it. Well, techron is some
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: kind of substance they have in there that is supposed
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to reduce gunk. Okay, Well, it has a very specific
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: signature that's different than the gasoline. And so if this
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: suspect has taken those gas cans and gone to a
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: local filling station, well that's an old term people don't
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: use any more, gone to a local filling station and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: filled up these cans with it. There's going to be
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: a very specific chemical signature goes back to that gas
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: if that's what he used as the accelerant. And so
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: that's what I mean, Dave. You know when I talk
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: about things like, yeah, you're trying to destroy evidence, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: maybe there was blood evidence in that car, because you know,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: maybe if he's using it to convey this precious girl's
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: remains all over the place, maybe he got rid of
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the blood evidence, but he's not going to get rid
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of that accelerant that was in there, and that's going
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to be his undoing. I think whoever I thought it
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: says I heard fire.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: That was my first thought was jo Just Scott said
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: that he just burned himself by setting that fire. That's
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: what I heard you say, you know, because I've heard
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: you talk about what a fire does.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Well, Look, you and I have both been around We
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: grew up in sixties, right, We've both been around cigarettes
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: our entire lives. One way or another, we smoked or
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: we didn't smoke. Certainly our parents smoked. I can't remember.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I can't count how many times I've been burned by
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: a cigarette, not on purpose, but you know, parents used
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: to smoke around us all the time, and you know
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: they burn you. You know they're lighting up or whatever.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: But have you ever seen somebody drop a cigarette onto
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: like the surface of a seat and a car well
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that it smolders it catch it if it's fabric or
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I guess it could be pleather or whatever it is
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: in your car, it's going to burn a hole in it.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: But guess what it's not going to do. It's not
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: going to explode and envelop the car. Okay, that just
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen. And you have to have an initiate with
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: him striking that lighter. What's really fascinating about this, Dave,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: is that we've actually got a witness that saw this
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: person strike this lighter. And I've got visions of zippos
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: coming into my mind right now, and you know, a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: lighter that would stay burning and take it and toss
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: it like some movie into the cockpit of the car
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and suddenly the thing's enveloped in flame. Now you might
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: think that you're going to get rid of everything, but
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I can tell you science in the end is gonna
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: get you. And you can say that not only about
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the fire. You can say that about the blood that
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: was left behind at his scene. You can say that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: about the ct TV, But you know what else you
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: can say it about out there. Her remains are pointing
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: a finger back at this perpetrator, and her remains, in
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the end will tell the tale of Shade's death. I'm
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.