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SEARCH MOVES INTERNATIONAL FOR NANCY GUTHRIE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news.
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Speaker 2: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day eighteen. This as
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Speaker 2: another threatening, much more threatening ransom note is received, and
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Speaker 2: we learn, contrary to what Sheriff Nanos said just twenty
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Speaker 2: four short hours ago, the search has extended into Mexico.
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Speaker 2: Good evening, I'm going to see Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:31
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
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Speaker 2: We are learning the search has extended into Mexico. This
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Speaker 2: as another ransom note has been received. This ransom note
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Speaker 2: offers a different Bitcoin address than the others. It is
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Speaker 2: also much much more menacing. Joining me and all Star
0:51
Speaker 2: panel to make sense of what we know right now.
0:53
Speaker 2: To Andrew Black joining us, former Special Agent in charge
0:58
Speaker 2: of the Tucson Office of the FBI. Twenty seven years
1:02
Speaker 2: with the FBI, former felony prosecutor in Chicago, never a
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Speaker 2: lack of business. They're currently Chief of University Hawaii Department
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Speaker 2: Public Safety. Andrew Black, thank you for being with us.
1:14
Speaker 2: What do you make of the FBI now stating they
1:17
Speaker 2: are venturing into Mexico. They are asking Mexico to share information.
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Speaker 3: It indicates to me that they've got new leads. So
1:26
Speaker 3: many leads have come in, and you know, the FBI
1:29
Speaker 3: also put out a stern warning against people fabricating kidnap.
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Speaker 3: Kidnapping notes are ransoming notes, ransoming notes. Excuse me. These
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Speaker 3: things take time to run down and it takes energy
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Speaker 3: and resources from the task force trying to locate Nancy Guthrie.
1:46
Speaker 3: So these types of leads just add to the workload
1:48
Speaker 3: of those on the ground trying to find her. And
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Speaker 3: I suspect this venture into Mexico is based on additional
1:55
Speaker 3: leads that they've received, including information in one of the
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Speaker 3: ransom notes.
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Speaker 2: Of Right now, I believe it is around forty thousand
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Speaker 2: tips that law enforcement has received. I'm sure at least
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Speaker 2: half of those are bogus. If you want to see
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Speaker 2: what type of tips are coming in, just go online,
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Speaker 2: take a look at Twitter at the and take a
2:20
Speaker 2: look at all of the zany theories. Now, on the
2:22
Speaker 2: other hand, some pretty good ideas are surfacing as well.
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Speaker 2: There is a theory right now still and I'm sure
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Speaker 2: the FBI and local law enforcement is besieged with theories
2:34
Speaker 2: about botched robbery. So can we just put that to
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Speaker 2: sleep now? As in euthanasia, that put to sleep. This
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Speaker 2: is not aboutched robbery. This is not a burglary gone wrong.
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Speaker 2: Andrew Black in a nutshell. Why do you believe that
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Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie was not a random victim.
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Speaker 3: No, I'm glad you're emphasizing that because all the indications
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Speaker 3: and the task force working this case, they believe they're
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Speaker 3: working a targeted victim in Nancy that based on the
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Speaker 3: m O of the individual, he was suited up from
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Speaker 3: head to toe concealing his identity. He had a backpack,
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Speaker 3: it looked like it was filled with gear. It does
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Speaker 3: not have any of the earmarkings of a robbery or
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Speaker 3: a crime of opportunity. This looks like it was planned,
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Speaker 3: and we do know there's an abduction past that It's
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Speaker 3: very difficult to say what we have following all these
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Speaker 3: ransom notes that one was, you know, definitely proved to
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Speaker 3: be a hoaxed individuals being prosecuted, and these others that
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Speaker 3: keep rolling in to TMZ and other outlets.
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Speaker 2: Would you say it's not a robbery. Obviously, the guy's
3:53
Speaker 2: bringing in a ton of stuff. His backpack is stuffed
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Speaker 2: to the gills with rab You take things out, you
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Speaker 2: don't carry them in, and let me go out to
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Speaker 2: Josh Coles Rude, veteran criminal defense attorney, former felony prosecutor,
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Speaker 2: now founder of Cole's Route Law Offices. Josh, I've never
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Speaker 2: seen a burglar or a robber, and the difference is
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Speaker 2: a robber robs from an individual. A burglary is when
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Speaker 2: someone enters a dwelling or business without consent, with the
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Speaker 2: intent to commit a felony therein. That felony could be theft.
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Speaker 2: That felony could be or agassault. The felony could be
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Speaker 2: a number of things, but typically a burglary is a
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Speaker 2: lawful entry with intent to commit a theft YEA. And
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Speaker 2: when the burglar, and this is statistically overwhelmingly true, when
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Speaker 2: the burglar comes in and sees the person, they're like,
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Speaker 2: ah and leave. They don't want contact with the victim.
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Speaker 2: They don't want to be identified. They want to come
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Speaker 2: in and steal and leave, or I mean and rape
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Speaker 2: and leave. And if they do see a victim, they
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Speaker 2: either high tail it or they kill the victim so
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Speaker 2: they cannot be identified. It's two plus two equals four exactly.
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Speaker 4: And Arizona actually distinguishes a burglary of an occupied structure
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Speaker 4: versus a burglary of an unoccupied structure. Now you can
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Speaker 4: look at the FBI statistics about how infrequent. In fact,
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Speaker 4: there has never been a recorded case where there's been
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Speaker 4: a burglary gone wrong where the burglary suspects end up
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Speaker 4: kidnapping an elderly woman and keeping her alive. It just
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Speaker 4: it's at the unicorn. It just doesn't happen. And we
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Speaker 4: know that she was alive when she left because the
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Speaker 4: blood trail led to the door and then suddenly just
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Speaker 4: stopped like they were putting their hand over her mouth.
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Speaker 4: And this has there's no indication, no signs and symptoms
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Speaker 4: that this was a burglary gone wrong. So we do
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Speaker 4: need to look at motive here, and it's good that
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Speaker 4: we can cross this motive off. Now we have to
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Speaker 4: look at was this based on money? Was this based
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Speaker 4: on something else? And only once we determine motive can
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Speaker 4: we kind of narrow down who the suspects may be too.
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Speaker 2: Scott Iiker joining us. He is a founding member of
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Speaker 2: the Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team at the FBI twenty
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Speaker 2: two years also a former homicide detective with Norfolk Police.
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Speaker 2: Now with precision cellular Analysis, Scott you and I have
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Speaker 2: seen so many cases prosecuted, investigated cases. I don't mean
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Speaker 2: just talk about them, I may prosecute them. When a
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Speaker 2: burglary goes wrong, that means somebody's home. When the burglar
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Speaker 2: goes in and they leave, Why in the world would
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Speaker 2: a burglar or robber decide, oh, I'll just take the
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Speaker 2: victim with me. Yes, she's eighty four and she has
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Speaker 2: a hard time walking, but no problem. It's ridiculous burglary
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Speaker 2: robbery gone wrong. What a waste of breath.
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Speaker 5: I totally agree on that. Most burglars are trying to
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Speaker 5: get quick, quick, quickly in and then out. They want
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Speaker 5: to grab what is valuable and then get out of
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Speaker 5: that house as soon as possible. They do main mistakes,
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Speaker 5: and every once in a while go in when there's
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Speaker 5: someone else in the house. But you're right, and I
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Speaker 5: totally agree, it's very random that you know they would
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Speaker 5: hurt the person in the house. They're more want to
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Speaker 5: get away from the scene as soon as possible because
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Speaker 5: they're going to, you know, call the cops on them
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Speaker 5: and stuff like that.
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Speaker 2: We also know, when you're looking at this timeline, there
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Speaker 2: was a two o'clock event. As I have mentioned, several
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Speaker 2: times where her pacement where her heart monitor spikes or
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Speaker 2: so we have been told that's around two a m.
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Speaker 2: Which makes me wonder if that's the first time she
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Speaker 2: sees the PERP. Then to twelve software detects a person
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Speaker 2: on a camera to twenty eight, but by now the
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Speaker 2: door camera has already been disconnected. Okay, I want to
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Speaker 2: talk about DNA, Dave mac, how many more times can
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Speaker 2: we say it? The DNA on the random glove found
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Speaker 2: about one point five miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home,
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Speaker 2: thrown to the side of the street did not get
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Speaker 2: a codas hit. That's the combined DNA databank, the National Databank, correct, right.
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Speaker 6: It did not get a codas hit.
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Speaker 2: You're correct, okay, which means you know, if you follow
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Speaker 2: that through, the DNA in the home was not connected
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Speaker 2: to that glove, and the DNA and a home did
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Speaker 2: not get a codas hit. Is that correct?
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Speaker 6: That is correct. It's not all of it, but it's correct.
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Speaker 2: Okay. What do you mean by not all of it?
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Speaker 6: Well, there was also a partial DNA collected inside of
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Speaker 6: the home. That partial DNA was sent to the Florida
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Speaker 6: lab just like the DNA found on the glove and
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Speaker 6: in the other end the other DNA found in the house.
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Speaker 6: The difference here is that it is a partial DNA
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Speaker 6: profile and they have yet to the people in Florida
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Speaker 6: at the lab have yet to develop it out where
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Speaker 6: it could be checked in CODIS. So that partial DNA
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Speaker 6: that they've developed from inside the home has not yet
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Speaker 6: been subjected to a coda's hit because it is a
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Speaker 6: partial DNA.
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Speaker 2: Dave Mac, You're right, and I appreciate the way you
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Speaker 2: said that, because some reporters have stated there was a
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Speaker 2: partial DNA profile and it didn't get a hit at COTIS.
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Speaker 2: The reality is CODIS is a national data bank. It's
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Speaker 2: very very strict on what DNA profiles, what DNA it
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Speaker 2: will even accept to enter into the data bank, like
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Speaker 2: the data bank there in Arizona Crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now. Is a DNA specialist. It is
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Speaker 2: Susanna Ryan out of Redlands, California, Lab director of forensic
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Speaker 2: DNA Analyst at Pure Gold Forensics. She is a forensic
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Speaker 2: DNA consultant at Ryan Forensics. Twenty five years experience in
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Speaker 2: forensic DNA and soerology. Susannah Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Explain what we are talking about right now? How difficult
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Speaker 2: that the high standard there is to get DNA into
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Speaker 2: the data Bank CODIS as opposed to the Arizona Data Bank,
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Speaker 2: which I believe is much more likely to yield a hit.
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Speaker 7: Right, So there definitely are different guys lines and it's
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Speaker 7: much more stringent, much more difficult to get a profile
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Speaker 7: into the National DNA database. You have to you might
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Speaker 7: be able to get a partial profile in, but it
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Speaker 7: has to have a certain number of what we call
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Speaker 7: the core codus low sie, So you have to have
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Speaker 7: results at least eight of those original thirteen low si.
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Speaker 7: It can't be too much of a mixture.
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Speaker 2: A certain number of core codis what yeah, low si
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Speaker 2: or locations.
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Speaker 7: So we used to look at thirteen. That was our
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Speaker 7: goal for getting a profile into CODIS. That has since
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Speaker 7: been extended to twenty LOWSI or locations. And the reason
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Speaker 7: for that is we have so many profiles in the
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Speaker 7: database we needed to start looking at more locations to
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Speaker 7: make the rarity of the profile even greater, because we
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Speaker 7: don't want to get a false hit or an adventitious match.
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Speaker 2: Susannah, Yeah, when you were saying Losai, and you're talking
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Speaker 2: about locations you need. Once it's fourteen, now it's twenty.
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Speaker 2: I'm in my mind comparing this to hits on a fingerprint,
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Speaker 2: where you have let's just say ten points of identic
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Speaker 2: in identical nature, you only need a certain number for
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Speaker 2: it to be a match. Is that what you're calling
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Speaker 2: a low sign.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a fairly good comparison. It's basically different areas
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Speaker 7: on the DNA molecule. We are not testing the whole molecule.
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Speaker 7: We're picking certain areas that are known to vary greatly
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Speaker 7: between people. So that way we can differentiate between people
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Speaker 7: by just looking at these particular areas. We don't have
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Speaker 7: to try to test the entire DNA molecule.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm trying to get a layperson's understanding of
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Speaker 2: what you're saying. So you have to have now twenty
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Speaker 2: low side twenty eccentricities about the DNA to make it
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Speaker 2: different and easily identifiable.
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Speaker 7: So that's the goal. If you had a single source profile,
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Speaker 7: you had a reference sample, you are required to have
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Speaker 7: all twenty of those areas to put it into CODIS.
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Speaker 7: If you're talking about a forensic sample, the requirements are
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Speaker 7: not as strict. You can have less than that, but
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Speaker 7: you still have to have a certain number of locations
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Speaker 7: or this information, and it has to meet what we
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Speaker 7: call a rarity index. It has to be more rare
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Speaker 7: than what the size of the database is, because if
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Speaker 7: it's not, you could have a false hit. It could
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Speaker 7: match against someone that is in the database but is
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Speaker 7: not actually your perpetrator. And that's specifically the national database.
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Speaker 7: So you're correct that the Arizona database that is going
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Speaker 7: to have less stringent requirements because they are less people
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Speaker 7: in the database.
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Speaker 2: So tell me what is in the az database that
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Speaker 2: is not allowed in the national database.
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Speaker 7: Well, we have arrestees in the in the Arizona database.
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Speaker 7: Not all states allow for arrestees to be entered into
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Speaker 7: the database. Now, this would be particular individuals arrested of
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Speaker 7: a very particular felonies. They'll be legislation defining, you know,
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Speaker 7: who is eligible for upload into the Arizona database. You
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Speaker 7: could have forensic unknowns.
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Speaker 2: Like who who gets you on.
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Speaker 7: So I don't know the specific requirements for the state
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Speaker 7: of Arizona, but it's going to be it's it's not
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Speaker 7: going to be someone that's you know, picked up for
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Speaker 7: some misdemeanor offense. It's going to be particular violent felony
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Speaker 7: offenses that a person who has simply been arrested for
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Speaker 7: this crime and not yet convicted, their profile can go
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Speaker 7: into that Arizona database. Another thing that Arizona has that
14:55
Speaker 7: not very many states have is the ability to do
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Speaker 7: familials searching. And so sometimes when people hear that, they think, oh,
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Speaker 7: we're talking about genetic genealogy, but this is totally different.
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Speaker 7: This is the ability to search the Arizona database for
15:11
Speaker 7: a near match. So we've already searched, we know that
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Speaker 7: we don't have a hit on this DNA profile, but
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Speaker 7: let's look for someone who is closely related, maybe a
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Speaker 7: brother or a father. And Arizona is one of only
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Speaker 7: twelve or thirteen states that allow for that sort of searching.
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Speaker 7: So I hope that they do conduct that. That's not
15:31
Speaker 7: something that's automatically done. That's something that has to be requested.
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Speaker 7: So hopefully they will have that conducted because that opens
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Speaker 7: up the database for a whole new category of individuals.
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Speaker 2: Guys, you're hearing Susanna Ryan speaking about her line of
15:48
Speaker 2: expertise d NA. Another question, we now know the FBI
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Speaker 2: has tentacles into Mexico. Is there an international DNA database, Susannah.
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Speaker 7: There is the Interpol database, so that is I think
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Speaker 7: it's over eighty countries that are part of Interpol where
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Speaker 7: they will upload qualifying DNA profiles, mostly you know, unsolved
16:23
Speaker 7: cases like this or other felony cases. And I believe
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Speaker 7: they are over two hundred and eighty thousand profiles in
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Speaker 7: the Interpol database. Mexico does participate in that program.
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Speaker 2: Wait, how many did you just say?
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Speaker 7: Over two hundred and eighty thousand profiles?
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Speaker 2: Wow, in the Interpol database and that includes Mexico.
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Speaker 7: It does. Now, I will say that Mexico in general,
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Speaker 7: you know, they do have a DNA database, but it's
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Speaker 7: not not on the same level as our CODAS Combined
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Speaker 7: DNA index System database. It A lot of what they're
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Speaker 7: focusing on in Mexico is identifying missing persons or you know,
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Speaker 7: if they have unidentified remains. That's a lot more of
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Speaker 7: their focus than the criminal investigative side. And it's not
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Speaker 7: all connected at a national level at this point.
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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, and very quickly, I want to talk to
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Speaker 2: you about how DNA is obtained at a scene, for instance,
17:22
Speaker 2: through UV lighting causing the DNA, Well, does it cause
17:28
Speaker 2: a DNA to fluoress? But when you look at DNA
17:31
Speaker 2: left on a scene, it fluoresces. And you need near
17:35
Speaker 2: dark or complete dark where you could use goggles that
17:38
Speaker 2: are tinted red, yellow or orange to block out light.
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Speaker 2: How does that work?
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Speaker 7: Right? So, what you're referring to is sometimes we use
17:47
Speaker 7: something called an alternate light source, and that helps us
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Speaker 7: identify things like saliva. Those sort of body fluids will fluoresce. Unfortunately,
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Speaker 7: other type of DNA, especially touch or skin cell DNA,
18:03
Speaker 7: does not fluoress. I wish it did. I wish there
18:06
Speaker 7: was a way for us to be able to just
18:09
Speaker 7: see it by some invention like that. But what we
18:13
Speaker 7: have to do is use our best educated guests as
18:17
Speaker 7: to what would have been contacted. Where did this person
18:21
Speaker 7: have to touch to enter the house? For example, is
18:25
Speaker 7: there anything moved in the home that it looks like
18:28
Speaker 7: this person contacted? And I would imagine that they are
18:33
Speaker 7: focusing on items like that, especially as you pointed out,
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Speaker 7: with him touching this perpetrator, he's got a flashlight in
18:41
Speaker 7: his mouth that he's moving around that he's probably touching.
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Speaker 7: So even though he's wearing gloves. That does not mean
18:47
Speaker 7: he's not transferring his DNA into that house.
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Speaker 2: And saliva is so DNA rich. He touches it multiple times.
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Speaker 2: He touches the holster of the gun multiple times. Then
18:58
Speaker 2: he reaches out to the doorknob. And we were discussing earlier, Susannah,
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Speaker 2: how the home was found with the front door unlocked
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Speaker 2: and all the lights on in the front of the house,
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Speaker 2: which is not Nancy Guthrie's routine. He turned on the
19:12
Speaker 2: light switch. He probably turned on the light switch in
19:14
Speaker 2: Nancy's room or touched her doorknob, which would be an
19:19
Speaker 2: excellent conduit for saliva DNA. It just takes a trace amount.
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Speaker 2: So I guess you're saying that with certain DNA such
19:28
Speaker 2: as saliva sperm you're in, you would use the ultnate
19:33
Speaker 2: light source. But for touch DNA it does not fluoresce,
19:38
Speaker 2: so you would swab the likely suspects the doorknob, light switch, furniture,
19:43
Speaker 2: something that's been moved in the home. Do I have
19:45
Speaker 2: it so far? Yes? Yes, Speaking of the gun. Straight
19:51
Speaker 2: out to Andrew black joining us, former special Agent in
19:55
Speaker 2: charge of the Tucson FBI office, Let's talk about the
20:00
Speaker 2: gun oh oh wait, I've got to show you a picture.
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Speaker 2: Hold on. Apparently our purp wears a pinky ring. Take
20:08
Speaker 2: a look at this. We've zoomed in on there you go.
20:14
Speaker 2: Look at that, Andrew Black, that's his right hand. I
20:18
Speaker 2: have analyzed and analyzed and got multiple other people to analyze.
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Speaker 2: Was it his ring finger? But it appears to be.
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Speaker 1: Pinky Look at that very stylish.
20:31
Speaker 2: Look at the shape of that. Hey, move out just
20:35
Speaker 2: a little bit more. Do you guys agree this is
20:38
Speaker 2: the pinky? At first I thought it would be the
20:40
Speaker 2: ring finger. Move out a little bit more. Move out
20:45
Speaker 2: a little bit more so we can see the full hand. Yeah, okay,
20:52
Speaker 2: what do you think, Andrew.
20:53
Speaker 3: That's a tough one for me. If they're saying it's
20:55
Speaker 3: on the pinky, then it is a pinky ring. And
20:58
Speaker 3: he has some sort of style or flair. Os doesn't
21:03
Speaker 3: have that same flare in his approach to emitting a
21:06
Speaker 3: home invasion. As we saw in the video that we're
21:09
Speaker 3: looking at right now. The gun that appears to be
21:13
Speaker 3: a semi automatic weapon. As you can see the handle,
21:17
Speaker 3: there's no hammer, it's and it looks like there's a
21:20
Speaker 3: magazine at the end of it. The whole star is
21:24
Speaker 3: really strange. I haven't seen one like that that appears
21:27
Speaker 3: to be a revolver, and you can see there's a
21:30
Speaker 3: snap going over where the hammer would be on a revolver.
21:34
Speaker 3: So it's a really unusual and unprofessional method for carrying
21:40
Speaker 3: really any type of weapon in front of your grind
21:43
Speaker 3: like this, But placing a semiotic weapon which could slide
21:47
Speaker 3: out quite easily in a revolver holster is unprofessional, to
21:53
Speaker 3: say the least, and awkward.
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Speaker 2: Could you very slowly go through again what you said
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Speaker 2: For those listenings that are not gun aficionados. You started
22:03
Speaker 2: with saying it is a revolver host holster. Now please
22:06
Speaker 2: explain your raisoning.
22:08
Speaker 3: Okay, there are two basic handguns. There's a revolver which
22:12
Speaker 3: has a cylinder, and each time the trigger is pulled
22:17
Speaker 3: or squeezed, the cylinder turns, the hammer comes back, and
22:22
Speaker 3: then it hits the back of the casing of the
22:25
Speaker 3: chambered round in the cylinder. A semi automatic pistol like
22:31
Speaker 3: we see here, the firing mechanism is different. The rounds
22:36
Speaker 3: of ammunition are not in a cylinder, they're in the
22:38
Speaker 3: handle of the gun, in what it's called a magazine.
22:41
Speaker 3: That's where you load the rounds of ammunition and rather
22:44
Speaker 3: than an exposed hammer coming back typically very typically, as
22:49
Speaker 3: some automatic pistol will not have a visible hammer. There
22:52
Speaker 3: are certain models, but this is not one of them.
22:54
Speaker 3: As you can see, it's flat and so this is
22:58
Speaker 3: a weapon. You can see ei there's a black strap
23:02
Speaker 3: that should be over the revolver if this was a
23:05
Speaker 3: revolver securing the hammer. Here we have a semi automatic
23:11
Speaker 3: pistol loosely sticking into this revolver holster and it's not
23:19
Speaker 3: what it was intended for. Doesn't mean it can't work.
23:22
Speaker 3: It's working here, but it's an awkward way to carry
23:25
Speaker 3: a weapon.
23:26
Speaker 2: So this is a semi automatic weapon. Now what more
23:31
Speaker 2: can you tell about the gun? Many people think it's
23:34
Speaker 2: a Walter.
23:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that. Because of the
23:38
Speaker 3: graininess of the picture, I don't want to commit to
23:41
Speaker 3: saying it's one model over another. And there are various
23:45
Speaker 3: models of Walter, but that's the popular belief Walter or
23:48
Speaker 3: a similar type which is a smaller type of handgun,
23:51
Speaker 3: easily concealable. That's what James Bond carries. One version of
23:55
Speaker 3: the gun that he carries, and yeah, definitely some automatic.
24:00
Speaker 3: Can't say for sure myself that it is a Walter,
24:03
Speaker 3: but it resembles one, and this helps, and that may
24:07
Speaker 3: be why one of the leads we've heard about is
24:11
Speaker 3: the purchase of Walter weapons at gun stores in the area.
24:15
Speaker 3: So this is a positive lead to follow up on,
24:18
Speaker 3: of course, along with the unusual holster he's using.
24:22
Speaker 2: Andrew Black, what did you say about James Bond?
24:26
Speaker 3: James Bond carried a Walter P similar type of weapon
24:31
Speaker 3: in the movies, and that's the manufacturer apparently of this
24:35
Speaker 3: weapon or what experts are saying. I can't identify it
24:38
Speaker 3: for sure, but that's what I've read from what's being
24:43
Speaker 3: reported on a type of weapons suspected of.
24:45
Speaker 2: I cannot identify it either. Many people have speculated it
24:49
Speaker 2: is a Walter. To Scott Iiker, what do you believe
24:54
Speaker 2: the FBI can do with this or law enforcement to
24:57
Speaker 2: identify the type of gun, Because I believe guns are
25:03
Speaker 2: like cars. And I've worked with the car Theft division
25:07
Speaker 2: at APD Atlanta Police Department, and they're brilliant. They can
25:12
Speaker 2: look at a car coming a block away and go, oh, yeah,
25:15
Speaker 2: that's a nineteen ninety five Toyota camery. How do you
25:19
Speaker 2: know that because they do it all day long. Like
25:23
Speaker 2: I can look at a police report and say, oh,
25:26
Speaker 2: this is aggravated assault, this is kidnapping, this is blah
25:30
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. That's what you can prove from
25:33
Speaker 2: this one page of a police report. They can look
25:36
Speaker 2: at a car and tell me what the modeling year is.
25:40
Speaker 2: There are people that can look at a gun and
25:43
Speaker 2: do pretty much the same.
25:45
Speaker 5: Yes, there's experts all around the world that are very
25:49
Speaker 5: good at visually identifying a weapon. Now, as Andrews said,
25:53
Speaker 5: this is graining the photo. We don't see the whole
25:56
Speaker 5: weapon itself. So I mean I suggest that a lot
26:00
Speaker 5: of people are just making their best estimate of our
26:03
Speaker 5: guests with what this is. But we don't know for sure.
26:08
Speaker 3: Obviously.
26:09
Speaker 5: You know, the gun store visits are helpful and hopefully
26:13
Speaker 5: we can maybe narrow down suspects by going to the
26:17
Speaker 5: gun stores and hopefully find someone that purchased that type
26:21
Speaker 5: of semi automatic weapon. We've got a lot of things
26:26
Speaker 5: to go on, and it's a lot of work to
26:28
Speaker 5: go to all the gun stores and all the walmarts
26:32
Speaker 5: because we're looking for who bought the people that bought
26:36
Speaker 5: the type of hulster. I agree with Andrew in the
26:39
Speaker 5: aspect that holster is not made for that gun, and
26:42
Speaker 5: that that probably will allow that gun to very easily
26:46
Speaker 5: slip out of that pulster.
26:49
Speaker 2: Back to Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
26:53
Speaker 2: Now another missive has been received by Harvey Levin Everett
26:58
Speaker 2: t TMZ. It's much more threatening. What do we know
27:03
Speaker 2: about the latest ransom note?
27:05
Speaker 6: Well, Harvey Levin and his team at TMZ say this
27:09
Speaker 6: particular new ransom note is highly sophisticated, involving a different
27:15
Speaker 6: cryptocurrency than bitcoin. We know that was the main play earlier,
27:20
Speaker 6: was that they wanted it and paid out in bitcoin
27:22
Speaker 6: the ransom er did. Now TMZ obtains this new note
27:25
Speaker 6: in saying it's highly sophisticated. I'm not really sure what
27:28
Speaker 6: that means, except that the demand involving cryptocurrency other than bitcoin,
27:33
Speaker 6: is still for about the same amount, around six million dollars.
27:37
Speaker 6: The email in demanding this dollar amount to a different
27:41
Speaker 6: account number two than had been previously received by TMZ.
27:46
Speaker 6: And there's a side note to all of this, Nancy.
27:50
Speaker 6: The email graphically describes the consequences of not paying up,
27:57
Speaker 6: of not following through with this ransom demand. I don't
28:00
Speaker 6: know again exactly what it is, but they're saying very
28:05
Speaker 6: specific graphic consequences. Also, the FBI is stepping up and
28:16
Speaker 6: they're saying, if you decide you want to try to
28:20
Speaker 6: pull off a fake ransom on the family, you will
28:23
Speaker 6: be going to prison for a long, long time. They're
28:27
Speaker 6: adding this to the mix because they're fed up with
28:30
Speaker 6: all of the side tracks and chasing rabbits. But again
28:32
Speaker 6: you mentioned it. Another missive sent to TMZ, this one
28:36
Speaker 6: different than had been previously received.
28:46
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
28:53
Speaker 2: Andrew Black. Let's talk about bitcoin alternatives. You've got let's
28:57
Speaker 2: see ethereum eth. You've got light Coin ltc x RP
29:05
Speaker 2: for crossing border settlements. You've got binance, B and b Cardano,
29:14
Speaker 2: so many bitcoin alternatives. What do you make of the
29:17
Speaker 2: most recent ransom note demanding an alternative to bitcoin same
29:23
Speaker 2: amount six mil?
29:25
Speaker 3: You know, I think I don't give a lot of
29:28
Speaker 3: credibility to these ransom demands. They take up a lot
29:32
Speaker 3: of energy on law enforcement, but you have to follow
29:36
Speaker 3: up on them, so you know, in my opinion, is
29:39
Speaker 3: another opportunist and another crime of opportunity. Yet law enforcement
29:43
Speaker 3: has to follow up on this because you know it's
29:47
Speaker 3: a lead and if God forbid, this person does know
29:51
Speaker 3: something about who's holding Nancy or where she is and
29:54
Speaker 3: you neglect it, you know you can't go back. So
29:58
Speaker 3: as the leads come in, you prioritize them in the
30:02
Speaker 3: command center. You have a team that does that, and
30:04
Speaker 3: then you follow those leads where they take you back.
30:07
Speaker 2: Dude, Josh Colesrue joining US foreign federal prosecutor now criminal
30:11
Speaker 2: defense attorney in this jurisdiction Arizona. Question to you regarding
30:19
Speaker 2: false Well, any ransom note is a crime, but false
30:25
Speaker 2: ransom notes are also a crime. Explain the legal theory
30:29
Speaker 2: and the penalties behind a false and ransom note. We
30:32
Speaker 2: already know Kalela has been charged under eighteen USC. Eight
30:36
Speaker 2: seventy five. So he's looking at time in the slammer
30:40
Speaker 2: for a fake ransom note.
30:42
Speaker 8: Yeah, Derek Kollela from San Diego. I was charged with
30:46
Speaker 8: two counts submitting a fake ransom note to Nancy sorry
30:52
Speaker 8: to Savannah Guthrie, and he faces up to twenty years
30:57
Speaker 8: in prison for those And I was really happy that
31:01
Speaker 8: the US attorney here, Uh, you know, threw the book
31:04
Speaker 8: at them. You know, they needed to set an example
31:07
Speaker 8: because these types of things can really derail an investigation,
31:11
Speaker 8: takes time and resources away from investigating real leads. And
31:15
Speaker 8: here with this new ransom note, you know what I
31:18
Speaker 8: want to know is, you know what indicators are there
31:22
Speaker 8: that they were they have new information that has not
31:26
Speaker 8: been released to the public, or are there personal anecdotes
31:29
Speaker 8: that could be provided by Nancy Guthrie herself to show
31:34
Speaker 8: that she's still alive. You know, we just don't have
31:37
Speaker 8: any of that information here, and you know, I have
31:40
Speaker 8: to agree with my colleagues that I'm very skeptical at
31:44
Speaker 8: this point in time that this is a legitimate ransom note.
31:49
Speaker 1: Scott iikar Way new a ransom note.
31:51
Speaker 5: I mean, we've been told that it was very graphic
31:53
Speaker 5: on what's going to happen to Nancy if they don't pay.
31:56
Speaker 5: But why would you have to put that into the
31:58
Speaker 5: ransom note. I mean, Savannah and the family have already
32:01
Speaker 5: said we will pay, so that would give at least
32:05
Speaker 5: to me another indication that this is another fake ransom.
32:10
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the
32:13
Speaker 2: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred
32:19
Speaker 2: two two five five three two four eight hundred two
32:24
Speaker 2: two five five three two four, or if you wish
32:27
Speaker 2: to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven
32:32
Speaker 2: four sixty three five two zero eight eight two seven
32:37
Speaker 2: four six three. There is a two hundred thousand dollars
32:42
Speaker 2: reward for information leading to Nancy Guthrie. That's nearly a
32:46
Speaker 2: quarter of a million dollars. Thank you to our guest tonight,
32:51
Speaker 2: but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray
32:54
Speaker 2: signing off, I'll see tomorrow night, and until then, good night.
32:58
Speaker 2: For it.
33:00
Speaker 6: To be active.
33:02
Speaker 3: S