Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Simon Olivier: How Cycle H2O is Accelerating Water Innovation | Make Water Work 030

Transcript

Simon Olivier: How Cycle H2O is Accelerating Water Innovation | Make Water Work 030 · Make Water Work Podcast

0:00
The analogy I often give is to invest in
0:03
aspirin versus vitamins. Then an aspirin
0:06
is going to really fix solve your
0:08
headache in in a good way. Whereas the
0:11
the vitamin is going to make you maybe
0:13
feel a bit better but over a long period
0:15
of time. But you really try to hone in
0:18
big critical problems. And because water
0:21
is both complex and complicated and we
0:24
need to add solution that address the
0:28
complexity
0:29
of the industry but in a very simple
0:32
way. Welcome to the make water work
0:34
podcast where we dive into the people,
0:37
ideas and innovation shaping the future
0:40
of water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
0:42
and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
0:45
the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
0:48
insights from hundreds of incredible
0:50
conversations we've had over the past 9
0:52
years with inspiring and energizing
0:55
leaders in the water industry. Each
0:58
week, we share those stories and
1:00
conversations with entrepreneurs,
1:02
community champions, and innovators who
1:04
are making water work for everyone.
1:07
Whether you're a water professional, a
1:09
curious innovator, or simply passionate
1:11
about our most precious resource, this
1:14
podcast is for you. Let's get started.
1:18
Welcome to the Make Waterwork podcast
1:20
where we celebrate the people leading,
1:22
serving, and innovating within the water
1:24
industry. Megan, we are having such a
1:27
fun time um having these conversations,
1:29
and we have a special one today. Tell us
1:31
who our guest is.
1:32
>> Yes, so our guest today is Simon Oliver.
1:36
And Simon leads an impact fund called
1:39
Cycle H2O that is dedicated to water
1:41
technologies. And Cycle H2O has been
1:44
established in partnership with Cycle
1:46
Capital and H2O Innovation, Inc. And
1:49
we're going to learn more about this
1:50
kind of innovative partnership um to the
1:53
fund and the funds um the innovative
1:56
venture capital structure that they've
1:58
uh formed. But could not be more excited
2:00
to hear from Simon about the fund and um
2:03
all the wonderful technologies they're
2:05
invested in. So
2:06
>> that's awesome.
2:07
>> Simon, uh without further ado, welcome
2:09
to the podcast.
2:11
>> Thank you very much, Megan and Isaac,
2:12
for the invitation.
2:14
>> Yes. Yes. But it's wonderful to have you
2:16
here and uh wonderful to get to know you
2:18
a bit more and all the wonderful work
2:20
you're doing in water to make it work
2:22
day in and day out. We've never met
2:24
anybody in this industry that doesn't
2:26
have a really interesting story about
2:28
how water found them. So, if you
2:30
wouldn't mind kicking us off, how did
2:32
water find you?
2:34
Yeah, very very personal story. Um,
2:37
water found me in a doctor's office and
2:40
and what really happened is I'm a big
2:43
passionate of water swimming, sailing,
2:46
scuba diving. And when I turned 50, I
2:50
started to have skin eruption, asthma
2:52
when swimming in lakes here around
2:54
Quebec.
2:55
>> I went to my doctor and I said, "Doctor,
2:58
I have a problem." And after several
3:01
examination, the doctor said, "Good news
3:03
is you're in excellent shape. The
3:05
problem is not you, it's the water you
3:07
swim in." And as an engineer, that got
3:10
me really really curious. I said, "How
3:13
can that be?"
3:14
>> I thought there were a lot of solutions.
3:16
Then I went to talk to the the startup
3:18
and the solution provider and I said,
3:20
"You're aware of all those problems. Why
3:23
are you not scaling up?" And the answer
3:26
was, "We'd love to, but we don't have
3:27
access to capital." I said hm there
3:30
might be an opportunity there uh to
3:33
really help them out and that's how the
3:35
idea starting forming around launching a
3:38
startup an investment fund venture
3:40
capital to support those early stage
3:42
startups.
3:43
>> I love that story. You had a a very
3:46
personal problem. Um you understood what
3:49
the solution might be able to be and
3:51
then cycle H2O was formed. So um tell us
3:54
then a little bit about more about the
3:56
fund and the dynamics of the fund that
3:59
makes that a bit unique.
4:00
>> When we started to think about what is
4:02
the best way to go we said we need to
4:05
join the best expertise and experience
4:10
as well in in terms of financial
4:12
expertise and experience and also
4:13
industry.
4:14
>> Okay. then decided to partner with Cycle
4:17
Capital which is the largest clean tech
4:20
VC platform in Canada about $700 million
4:23
under management and partnered also with
4:26
H2O innovation. Uh they used to be
4:28
publicly traded but they privatized a
4:30
couple years ago that is really kind of
4:32
an partner in terms of market
4:35
intelligence and technology insights.
4:38
They now operate in about 75 countries
4:40
around the world with,200 employees
4:44
>> and that's how we really formed the
4:45
venture capital which is really unique
4:47
and innovative and joining forces with
4:50
an existing successful investment
4:53
platform and coupling that with a kind
4:56
of renowned leader uh which is HO
4:59
innovation.
5:00
>> Yeah. No, that that is and I think
5:03
really to point out that is um that is
5:05
really unique and I think one of the
5:06
things that stood out with us when we
5:08
met Simon Isaac is just all of the um
5:11
additional support that either from the
5:15
um finding these companies to then the
5:18
you know post-transaction resources and
5:20
support to match them with strategics
5:22
that can help kind of commercialize the
5:24
technologies faster because we know that
5:26
can be a headache in in water and so I
5:28
think just you know kudos for you Simon
5:30
izing the the entire ecosystem that it
5:32
takes to actually get water technology
5:34
from idea to actual commercialization
5:37
and and adoption.
5:38
>> Yeah. And so much of the need whenever
5:40
we talk about this too is that um
5:43
there's plenty of entrepreneurs who have
5:45
ideas and maybe have a uh solution to a
5:48
problem. But building the infrastructure
5:52
to have the business around that problem
5:56
um is some is sometimes a challenge. And
5:58
so having good um partners where they're
6:02
not just providing
6:03
>> exactly
6:03
>> finances, they're also providing our
6:06
mission aligned um and providing the um
6:09
the structure to really help them
6:10
support is is really important. And so
6:13
um I feel like that's what really sticks
6:14
out about your fund.
6:16
Yeah, we like to be called like
6:18
strategic investor and we're we're
6:20
really hands-on investor and we like the
6:23
the the funders to really control make
6:26
all the decision and lead the growth of
6:28
the company. But we're there as a kind
6:30
of quarterback to help them out and
6:32
provide guidance where we can
6:34
>> and to really accelerate the journey.
6:36
The biggest issue or problem with water
6:39
is that it's slow. And you look at other
6:43
type of industries and it's a lot
6:45
faster. And that was really our our
6:48
mission say, hey, how can we kind of
6:50
remove bottlenecks and help speed things
6:53
up because the problems they're growing
6:55
very rapidly and we need to make sure
6:58
that the solutions keep up with the fast
7:01
pace of problem emergence and that's how
7:04
we structured it.
7:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, Simon, you you brought
7:07
it up um water and then other industries
7:10
and your background, you you've served
7:12
other industries, energy,
7:13
sustainability, corporate development,
7:15
and startups. Um
7:18
were you uh I guess were you surprised
7:21
at the pace that water moves or what or
7:24
or based on your experience in other
7:26
industries kind of what surprised you
7:28
about water and what's maybe the same?
7:30
Um some patterns that you've recognized
7:32
from the other industries you've been a
7:33
part of? Yeah, that that's a good
7:35
question and um and that's probably
7:38
benefit of being more mature and
7:40
hopefully smarter is that you can learn
7:42
from other industries and look at some
7:45
benchmarks and best practices and I grew
7:48
up mainly in the energy sector
7:51
>> and I look back at what we were working
7:53
on 20 years ago uh the famous 3Ds right
7:57
digitization decentralization
7:59
decarbonization that was the the early
8:02
days and you fast forward 20 years later
8:05
and you find the water industry working
8:08
on those different initiatives. Uh then
8:11
there's a lot of benchmarks that can be
8:13
applied and when you start at really
8:16
kind of deep diving deeper in the water
8:19
industry you look that it's becoming
8:22
more and more multi-isiplinary.
8:24
>> Okay. You look at now the health tech
8:27
sector caring about the water industry
8:29
when it times to measure detect
8:32
pathogens in the water. Then there's
8:33
some technology that are imported from
8:36
the healthc care sector. You look at
8:39
aerospace with satellites to look at
8:41
droughts and uh flooding zone. uh you
8:45
look at really kind of several
8:47
industries bring the best practices the
8:50
telecommunication industry in terms of
8:53
gathering data and making our water
8:56
smarter
8:57
>> then that's kind of what we're looking
8:59
at is we are kind of looking at 360 and
9:02
to make sure to the element of speed I
9:04
was talking earlier that we can learn
9:06
from other industries and apply it in in
9:08
a very faster way to the water industry.
9:10
Mhm. No, I Yeah, I think that's a a
9:13
great point and and maybe because we can
9:16
say we've been there, we've done that,
9:18
maybe a different application but
9:19
similar technology, maybe our
9:21
riskadverse water industry might be
9:23
faster to do adopt, right? In in theory
9:26
and and hopefully that's the that's the
9:28
case, right?
9:30
Um what are some I I guess you you
9:33
touched on some technologies and I know
9:34
because I know some of the companies in
9:36
your portfolio. um can you just describe
9:39
just the type of technologies that
9:41
you're investing in and kind of what are
9:43
the the markers of of the good
9:45
technologies that you're looking in uh
9:47
looking at when you're thinking about
9:49
your portfolio?
9:50
>> Yeah, it it's such a relevant question
9:53
because water is so broad and
9:56
ubiquitous. Uh it could be all sorts of
9:59
technology, hardware and software. What
10:01
we tend to do is look at a solution, a
10:05
technology that solves a real big
10:08
critical problem.
10:09
>> Okay?
10:10
>> And the analogy I often give is to
10:12
invest in aspirin versus vitamins. And
10:15
an aspirin is going to really fix solve
10:18
your headache in in a good way. Whereas
10:21
the the vitamin is going to make you
10:23
maybe feel a bit better but over a long
10:25
period of time. But we really try to
10:27
hone in big critical problems
10:30
>> and because water is both complex and
10:33
complicated.
10:34
>> Yes.
10:34
>> And we need to have solution that
10:37
address the complexity
10:39
of the industry but in a very simple
10:42
way.
10:43
>> Then we look at what kind of problem is
10:45
being solved and addressed. Is the
10:47
technology scalable? Is it simple enough
10:50
to be adopted?
10:51
>> Yeah.
10:52
>> Fast enough by the end user. and I
10:55
always coming back to the this element
10:57
of speed to make sure that it's scalable
10:59
and deployable. Um then that's kind of
11:02
how we tend to look at the different
11:03
investment opportunities.
11:05
>> Yeah. And I think that's important
11:07
because I think it's important for um
11:09
entrepreneurs to know that not every
11:11
problem that's being solved meets that
11:13
criteria. And that's okay. It might not
11:16
be become a a business that scales, but
11:18
it might find its home um in in other in
11:22
other areas um in other places. Um I do
11:26
think it's interesting too when you know
11:28
so you're based in Montreal in Canada or
11:30
Canada has like 20% of the freshwater
11:34
resources um in in the in the world. Um,
11:38
and so, um, yeah, what makes Canada a
11:42
good a good place for, um, for water
11:44
technology when you have so such so so
11:47
much, uh, clean drinking water?
11:51
>> Yeah, that that was such a a a a big
11:54
question I got asked early days when I
11:56
uh was traveling around fundraising
11:59
about this fund and people questioned me
12:02
said, "Simone, what are you kind of
12:04
thinking? It's kind of Canada. we've got
12:06
lots of water and it's not only
12:08
plentiful but it's free then what are we
12:11
thinking about launching an investment
12:13
fund in that space and when you look at
12:17
it closer then I think we have the
12:20
responsibility abundance create
12:22
responsibility
12:23
in terms of stewardship and kind of
12:25
caring for what we have so much of and
12:28
that responsibility translate into
12:31
opportunities
12:32
>> and that's really what I had to explain
12:34
in terms of the narrative
12:36
is that because we've got lots of water.
12:39
Historically, it attracted most of kind
12:42
of the world's expert in terms of labs,
12:46
research center, and we've got so much
12:50
gray matter here in terms of brain
12:52
power.
12:53
>> Yeah.
12:54
>> And that's been established over the
12:56
last uh decade. And that translated into
12:59
companies being very very innovative. If
13:02
you think of the Xenon that got acquired
13:04
by G where I worked for for 20 years,
13:06
you look at Trojent and you look at 79%
13:10
of the Canadianbased water companies are
13:12
exporter
13:13
>> and when you look at what does that mean
13:16
for startups, it leads that we're number
13:19
five globally in terms of IP related to
13:22
water technology.
13:24
>> Yeah. Then I'm currently tracking over
13:26
700 companies like startups across the
13:30
country from coast to coast. And the
13:32
fact that we're having lots of water
13:33
that creates what I call a natural lab
13:36
to test and kind of develop those
13:39
technologies that will become scalable
13:41
and to export them afterwards.
13:44
>> Yeah.
13:44
>> So far for the last kind of five years,
13:48
it was a very well-kept secret. Uh but
13:50
some of my good friends working at Burnt
13:53
Island Ventures, at Mazerine, Echo River
13:56
Capital,
13:57
>> uh learn about that and they've invested
14:00
in Canadian based companies. And we see
14:02
that we're at the cusp of the kind of
14:06
emergence of something that that's got
14:08
tremendous potential
14:10
>> and the fact that we've got water um
14:14
>> it's an endowment that we need to take
14:16
care of and to really for the future
14:18
generation
14:19
>> and one of the solution is to invest in
14:22
innovation.
14:23
>> I love that. Do you do you think um do
14:28
you think that the mindset in Canada is
14:31
a little bit more innovative than let's
14:34
say compared to the US when you think
14:36
about innovation? Like what's your
14:37
experience been in terms of uh
14:39
willingness to adopt uh startups or tech
14:44
technologies in Canada versus maybe some
14:46
other other countries you've you've
14:48
worked with?
14:50
>> It it's evolving. It's getting better
14:52
which is the good news. Uh you look at I
14:55
mean the two benchmark globally that
14:57
I've been looking at is Israel and
14:59
Singapore in terms of water tech
15:01
innovation. They're at the forefront.
15:04
>> Uh but but here a few years ago the
15:06
government decided to create the
15:08
Canadian water agency
15:10
>> and that really kind of supported
15:12
several accelerator aqua action two
15:15
degrees cycle momentum and we see the
15:18
mindset changing in a good way. uh very
15:21
very fast. Then it's um I think it's
15:24
it's a team sport innovation. Now we're
15:28
seeing more players playing with us
15:31
which is amazing and uh but we're not at
15:34
where we'd love to be. Uh but but that
15:38
creates opportunities, right? And we've
15:40
got kind of some ways to go. Uh but the
15:42
trend is is very positive.
15:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. I and I would say even maybe
15:47
a little bit more so positive than than
15:48
certain places you know in the US. I
15:50
mean I just remember um someone saying
15:54
to me actually it was an investor some
15:56
sort of investment I'm not going to name
15:58
names didn't work out as expected. And
16:00
so when we went in to pitch the idea at
16:02
120 they said well listen we put our
16:04
eggs in that basket we didn't like the
16:06
way it goes so we're not going to do any
16:07
more of those. I thought, my gosh, like
16:09
what a what a such a shortsighted
16:12
mindset, right? Like just, you know, you
16:14
did one water investment, didn't go as
16:16
expected, so now we're putting ourselves
16:18
out of that game. And I think that that
16:20
mindset is um also within the utility
16:22
when they invest in innovation and it
16:24
doesn't go as planned or a pilot fails,
16:27
then that has a bad taste in their mouth
16:29
for all innovation. And you know, part
16:31
of
16:32
>> you're not doing a
16:33
>> good enough afteraction review to be
16:35
like, hey,
16:36
>> yeah,
16:36
>> what went wrong? what could be improved.
16:38
We're still open to a to new ideas.
16:40
>> It's that mindset of like we just have
16:42
not every not everything we're going to
16:45
um deploy is going to be successful,
16:47
right? But, you know, just kind of
16:49
understanding the expectation setting
16:51
and and being open-minded to what
16:53
innovation actually does and what it can
16:55
do and and it's a mindset to your point.
16:57
I'm kind of going off on a tangent, but
16:58
it is a mindset, Simone. Yeah.
17:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Indeed.
17:02
>> Yeah. Yep. So, um I guess of the of the
17:05
whatund 700 plus companies that you're
17:08
tracking, are there any themes on um
17:11
kind of some technologies emerging or um
17:15
in like industries within those
17:17
technologies that you're particularly
17:18
bullish on that you'd be willing to
17:19
share?
17:21
>> Yeah, I think it's it's it's all about
17:24
water security, right? It's in terms of
17:27
availability and quantity of water and
17:30
everyone is kind of struggling to really
17:34
kind of have access which create some
17:36
water security. I look at at both the
17:39
utilities and the industrial customers
17:41
that we work with.
17:44
They they've got challenges either that
17:46
the water is not as good as they think
17:48
it is. uh they need to kind of invest in
17:50
kind of cleaning it up or the supply is
17:54
not as reliable
17:56
>> and and that creates kind of operational
17:59
issues. Uh and we see that in Canada but
18:01
we see that in the US and in Europe and
18:03
and everywhere. And now when I say water
18:06
security that leads or translate into
18:10
end users wanted to invest in their own
18:13
destiny really to control their destiny
18:15
and water security leads to water reuse.
18:18
>> Yes.
18:19
>> Then
18:20
>> right now I mean we're kind of recycling
18:22
paper plastic glass and kind of lots of
18:27
uh resources but yet we don't recycle
18:30
water as much as we should. and knowing
18:33
it's a finite limited resource now
18:37
people are opening up say hey maybe I
18:39
should kind of reuse it and recycle it
18:42
>> then the whole concept of reuse there's
18:44
a bunch of sub elements because you need
18:47
to treat it then treatment is of course
18:49
>> but even among um before treating it you
18:52
need to understand what's in it and
18:53
sensing like data acquisition is part of
18:56
it
18:56
>> and the whole kind of system wise to
19:01
really kind of recycle water is really
19:04
high on our priority list.
19:05
>> Yes.
19:06
>> Um and and we see that as a macro trend.
19:09
You look at the conventional water kind
19:10
of lakes, river aquifers that are
19:13
depleting rapidly and that created kind
19:16
of alternative sources of water
19:18
dalination. It's good, but it's
19:21
expensive and not available everywhere.
19:23
The the biggest opportunity we see is to
19:26
recycle, reuse the the water that we
19:28
currently have.
19:29
>> Yes. Yeah. could not agree more from uh
19:32
this side of the chair. I think this
19:34
whole notion of um you know distributed
19:37
operations you know putting commercial
19:39
industrial even to since you know
19:42
residential ecosystems within their own
19:44
destiny to can kind of control their uh
19:47
their one water environment from how
19:49
they treat their own water you know
19:50
specific to their needs to how they
19:52
reuse and recycle. It just it just seems
19:55
so natural doesn't it? And maybe that's
19:57
just us being in the industry and
19:58
knowing what's possible and being like,
20:00
why aren't we all doing this? You know,
20:02
>> it does, but to your earlier point,
20:03
Megan, it's about mindset.
20:05
>> That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
20:07
>> And there's a lot of we need to kind of
20:10
prove that it works and more importantly
20:12
that it's cheaper
20:15
>> for the environment and their balance
20:17
sheet to do that. It's uh typically
20:19
customers they pay twice for their
20:21
water. They pay to get fresh water and
20:23
they pay to treat it afterwards. Yeah.
20:25
Whereas when you recycle it, you pay for
20:27
it once, right? And um in the long run,
20:29
it's cheaper economically, but also
20:32
environmentally.
20:32
>> Yeah.
20:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that that's
20:35
really key. I I recently was at an event
20:39
um all all based on how utilities use AI
20:43
and also um how utilities need to
20:45
prepare for the um demand of water
20:48
demand as it relates to data centers. um
20:51
and at least in northern um North
20:54
America where we have um or in the US
20:57
where we have Minnesota that's land of a
20:59
thousand lakes. So they they maybe blend
21:02
into that water rich environment that um
21:05
that Canada um enjoys. But I'm curious
21:07
what the climate is like cuz that's one
21:09
of the the drivers of water reuse I
21:12
believe right now is somewhat tied to uh
21:15
the demand for data centers. Um, and so
21:17
I'm kind of curious what the climate is
21:20
like in in Canada as it relates to um
21:22
the data center conversation.
21:25
>> Yeah, the the climate literally is one
21:28
of the most conducive for data centers
21:31
because it's cold then you need less
21:33
heating. We've got abundant water then
21:37
that helps and our energy electricity is
21:41
very cheap.
21:42
>> Yeah. there. Therefore, it attracts
21:44
tremendous interest globally from kind
21:48
of to build data centers here. Um, and
21:51
you've seen Amazon, Bell, Canada, uh,
21:54
like looking at billion dollar projects
21:57
all across the nation here from west
21:59
coast to east coast. Um, and but we want
22:02
to make sure that those are sustainable,
22:05
>> that we get jobs, right? That we kind of
22:07
we build some
22:09
>> um added value out of it.
22:11
>> Yeah. But it put tremendous stress on on
22:14
on the water. I mean last year there was
22:16
about 64
22:18
billion lers of water used for data
22:22
centers. Fast forward 5 years from now
22:25
we're going to probably exceed 100
22:27
billion lers of water.
22:29
>> Wow.
22:29
>> Mhm. Then when you think about how do
22:32
you get the public acceptance, the
22:35
community engagement to say, "Hey, now
22:39
we're going to kind of give up that much
22:41
water uh for that. What do we get in
22:44
return?" Then that's kind of a debate.
22:46
Uh but but the interest is is all-time
22:49
high. Um and we're going to see how it's
22:52
going to evolve. But but we've got the
22:55
kind of the right setting, the right
22:56
climate to your point, Isaac, um to
22:59
really lead the way from a data center
23:02
point of view.
23:02
>> Yeah, I think that that's what's
23:04
interesting and is so important is that
23:06
there's the technology from from what I
23:09
hear is there there's a lot of
23:11
technology that's incredibly efficient
23:13
with every drop of water. Um but moving
23:17
the needle on how we're transparent, how
23:19
we gain the social license and and get
23:22
the social contract right to be able to
23:25
operate um is where a lot of the work um
23:29
needs to be done by by all stakeholders.
23:31
>> That's right. And but we we need to be
23:34
mindful because we talk a lot about data
23:36
center but this is the tip of the
23:38
iceberg really where where the water is
23:41
mainly consumed and used is for the
23:44
energy required for the data center
23:46
>> and even more so is for the chip
23:49
manufacturer.
23:50
>> Yes. And and people maybe are are not as
23:52
aware, but those chip manufacturers use
23:56
kind of billions and billions of of
23:59
liters and gallons of water and that
24:02
puts tremendous pressure where those are
24:03
being manufactured and on the energy
24:05
side the data center operation. Y it's
24:08
still a lot uh but we see that as a tip
24:11
of the iceberg and we tend to invest in
24:13
solution
24:14
>> all across the spectrum
24:16
>> from a chip manufacturer using kind of
24:18
membrane and high efficiency membranes
24:21
to energy production
24:23
>> to kind of running and operating the the
24:26
data centers.
24:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well said. And I think just
24:28
knowing this is a tip of the iceberg, it
24:30
gets me excited for I think the
24:31
innovation that's going to come because
24:34
of it because we're not just going to
24:36
allow us I hope I I hope we don't allow
24:38
ourselves just to continue to operate
24:39
and absorb uh the cost of the operation
24:42
rather we see it as an opportunity to
24:43
get more innovative right and how on the
24:45
technology that we use to actually
24:47
shrink that footprint um of energy and
24:50
manufacturing and so on so forth. So
24:52
>> yeah and and we're seeing positive
24:54
trends there. I mean to use non-putable
24:56
water for cooling of data center
24:58
>> it's not high innovation right it's
25:01
probably one of the lowest innovation
25:03
but it's smart and it's kind of
25:05
efficient
25:06
>> then you need to be open-minded about
25:08
really kind of how to run it and with
25:11
the long-term view on the kind of
25:13
impacts down the road as well.
25:14
>> Yeah. Again, it's one of those things
25:16
maybe because we're in it. It does not
25:18
seem innovative to us, but it's amazing
25:21
to me how that's not part of the
25:23
conversation.
25:24
>> I mean, that is not, you know, it's
25:26
where are we going, you know, where are
25:27
we going to get our fresh water from to
25:29
power these plants? It's like why why do
25:31
we need why we need fresh treated water
25:33
to power these plants? Like, I don't
25:35
know. It just Yeah. But um so uh we have
25:39
a lot of of founders that we support and
25:42
listen to um this podcast and um just
25:47
curious we always like to give them a
25:49
glimpse in what the investors thinking
25:51
right think like an investor think you
25:53
know if you want to get your business
25:55
capitalized or scale your business maybe
25:57
think more like an investor or
25:59
anticipate what the investor's thinking
26:00
so what advice would you have for
26:03
founders listening to this that maybe
26:05
have an idea idea or looking for
26:07
capital, you know, what advice would you
26:10
give them for someone coming to you?
26:13
>> Yeah, the the first advice is surround
26:16
yourself with smart and very capable
26:20
people. Um, and and that that's probably
26:23
cliche. You probably hear that all the
26:25
time, but but we've seen case and cases
26:27
that you've got a solo foundonder uh
26:31
being kind of wicked smart, having the
26:33
best technology
26:35
um but then comes time to commercialize
26:38
to be a bit more strategic. Um and they
26:41
really need to build a team.
26:42
>> Yeah. And but some some of the feedback
26:44
I get is yeah but it's hard right to
26:47
find kind of alignment of personality
26:49
and but but my view on this is if you
26:54
believe in your solution that your
26:55
solution is that great.
26:56
>> Yeah. You need to be able to sell it to
26:58
a potential partner of yours.
27:01
>> Otherwise, how are you going to be able
27:02
to sell it to an end user or customer,
27:06
right? Yeah. Then you need to sell it to
27:08
kind of proximity. And if you're so
27:10
passionate about it
27:11
>> because it works and you believe in a
27:13
great future, you should be able to
27:15
excite and really get somebody else
27:17
engaged to join you on this journey.
27:21
>> It's um that's something that is really
27:24
critical,
27:25
>> but that doesn't stop there. I think
27:27
once they have a team, they need to
27:29
learn to let go and trust to make sure
27:32
that everything has to go through them.
27:36
Um, and delegation is probably one of
27:39
the hardest thing when you've created
27:41
something um out of hard work, labor,
27:46
and sweat over time. Uh, sometimes to
27:49
let go is hard, right? It's um almost
27:52
like when your your kid goes to college
27:54
or abroad and say, "Ah, I'm going to
27:56
miss you." But you need to trust the
27:58
process. Then I'd say two things. Hire
28:01
kind of or partner with kind of capable
28:05
people and make sure that you trust
28:07
delegate to maximize the the bandwidth.
28:10
This is probably one of the common
28:12
advice that I I see in the marketplace.
28:15
>> Yeah. Yeah.
28:16
>> Yeah. That's a I I feel like um in time
28:20
that I've spent with um early stage
28:22
entrepreneurs or doing um uh consulting
28:25
with early stage businesses, it often is
28:29
what is their capacity to be able to
28:32
listen to healthy critique and have
28:35
someone like you know anyone who has a a
28:38
great idea like as soon
28:40
>> your world should feel like it gets
28:42
rocked a little bit when you finally
28:44
have a customer who says yeah I don't
28:46
like this, this, and this. Like, they're
28:47
going to tell you what they don't like.
28:49
So, you need to you need to know how to
28:52
um let go of your ideal solution or the
28:56
ideal way that you thought people were
28:58
going to buy it. It might be a surprise.
29:00
There might be a channel along the way
29:01
or the connection on um with someone
29:04
that you um hire or build around as a
29:06
partner that
29:08
>> you you leave yourself open to
29:10
discovery.
29:11
>> Yeah.
29:11
>> Yeah. the the best trait that that I
29:14
find is kind of people that continue
29:17
being kind of student of learning.
29:18
>> Yes.
29:18
>> Right. Exactly.
29:20
>> It's it's people that can they believe
29:22
in something. They're really focused.
29:24
>> Y
29:24
>> but they can really kind of listen learn
29:27
from the customer. They become almost
29:29
like a PhD in a customer.
29:31
>> Yeah.
29:31
>> And they really kind of understand the
29:33
needs their mindset and they kind of
29:36
adapt. And um the the key in in a
29:40
founder is to kind of fall in love with
29:42
the problem, not as much their solution
29:44
>> because they're going to probably pivot
29:46
two, three, four times.
29:48
>> Yeah.
29:48
>> And that takes time and money.
29:50
>> Then us as investor, we tend to kind of
29:54
follow and coach them as much as
29:56
possible to limit the number of pivots.
29:58
>> And the faster, the sooner they fall in
30:01
love with the problem, their solution
30:04
becomes way better almost overnight. And
30:07
but that's all capability of being able
30:09
to to learn and to remain a student. And
30:12
we think that because we've got a a
30:14
degree, a diploma from a PhD in
30:17
something that the learning stops, but
30:19
it it only starts at that time.
30:22
>> Yeah. I I and I love how you led with um
30:25
surround yourself with great people
30:27
because I do think um especially for
30:30
firsttime founders there's the uh you
30:34
don't want to appear naive andor that
30:36
you don't know what you're doing but I
30:38
think well you realize that you know to
30:41
be vulnerable and say I I have gaps
30:44
every natural human being has gaps and
30:46
part of my role as a founder as a leader
30:50
is to try to surround myself and fill
30:52
those gaps. And I and I and I wish we
30:54
were having more of those conversations
30:56
earlier on in the investment process to
30:58
even like strength finders like you know
31:00
as a founder where are we going to
31:02
double down on your strengths and then
31:04
as a part of intended use of funds where
31:06
can we then double down in these other
31:08
areas versus just okay show me on the
31:10
the forecast how many roles you're going
31:12
to hire and and what are the seats you
31:14
need to fill but why are we filling
31:15
those seats you know let's have that
31:17
question why are we filling those seats
31:19
to make sure that we're also not
31:20
pivoting on the leadership team because
31:23
that needs to stay as constant in my
31:25
opinion through some of these like uh
31:28
investment milestones as the product
31:30
itself. Yeah. Uh and if we don't get
31:32
that layer of investment right early on,
31:35
I think it can actually take you know
31:37
years and cycles away from actually
31:39
driving the value that we need.
31:41
>> And and that's one element where we
31:43
diverge from our moto of speed. I mean
31:46
we love speed generally speaking and we
31:47
like to kind of fast
31:49
>> but the one element where we really take
31:52
our time is to really kind of on our due
31:54
diligence and to reach our decision to
31:56
invest or not invest
31:58
>> not because it's a long process because
32:00
we want to make sure that we get to know
32:02
the entrepreneurs the founders
32:04
>> on a more intimate bas to to your point
32:06
Megan about vulnerability and when you
32:09
first talk to them um they they have an
32:12
approach that fake it till you make it a
32:14
little bit right then it's They say,
32:15
"Yeah, everything's going to be great.
32:18
Everything's going to work." Uh, but we
32:20
want to build that relationship, that
32:22
rapport to really have honest
32:24
discussion.
32:25
>> Uh, because for us, it's a long-term
32:28
investment and things at at some point
32:31
inevitably will be not as planned. Yes.
32:35
And we need to to be comfortable to have
32:38
those discussion then we can to to build
32:40
this rel relationship before investing
32:43
so that when we do invest then it's uh a
32:46
bit easier.
32:46
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and founders, take
32:48
note. Take the time to have those
32:50
conversations, be candid about those
32:51
conversations because uh in theory, what
32:54
you want is a partner that's going to
32:55
see this from coast to coast, right? Um
32:57
that that is the ideal goal here. And to
33:00
find an investor willing to spend that
33:01
time and get that candid and
33:03
vulnerability like let's map this out
33:05
and what this looks like is uh is is
33:08
kind of rare. So to take the time to get
33:10
to know,
33:11
>> you're right. It's as important to them
33:12
than it is for us.
33:13
>> Exactly. Yeah. as it's to them. I mean,
33:17
we're going to be it.
33:20
>> In our case, we can have kind of 10 12
33:23
portfolio companies and we have a little
33:25
bit of diversification,
33:27
>> but to them it's a bit more limited and
33:30
it's as important, if not more important
33:31
to them to get to know us than for us to
33:34
get to know them.
33:35
>> Ah, love that. Um well on that are there
33:38
any portfolio companies that you would
33:40
like to shout out by name and kind of
33:42
give a uh I'm I'm just curious any any
33:45
ones in particular that um should be on
33:47
our radar or we should have on the
33:48
podcast or we should just know in
33:50
general about the good things they're
33:51
doing.
33:52
>> The I think that the line broke a little
33:54
bit but I think I got a gist of the
33:56
question. Um, if there is any one of our
33:59
portfolio company that should be on your
34:01
radar,
34:02
>> uh, radar podcast you'd like to give a
34:04
shout out, you know, um, I'm just, you
34:06
know, share the share the good word.
34:08
>> Yeah. Feel free to feel free to brag on
34:10
some of some of the
34:11
>> That's a good way to put it.
34:12
>> Yeah. So, some of the companies in your
34:13
portfolio, tell us who they are, what
34:15
they do.
34:16
>> Yeah.
34:17
>> Yeah. And that's a bit the role that we
34:19
tend to play because um often times our
34:22
founders are so humble
34:24
>> um in spite of their great success it's
34:28
uh this is something they need to learn.
34:30
It's it's not natural sometimes. And um
34:34
but we've got one company called Bio
34:36
Alert Solutions and they were one of the
34:38
first in the world to come up with a
34:40
technology to detect Legionella in a
34:44
real time fully automated manner. They
34:48
developed this technology that for
34:50
cooling towers mainly uh in both
34:53
industrial and and building settings. Uh
34:57
right now the status quo is to send a
34:59
sample to the lab. Takes kind of two
35:01
weeks, three weeks and once you receive
35:04
a result it's often too late.
35:06
>> Yeah.
35:06
>> Uh recently there was a big explosion in
35:09
New York City. Yeah.
35:11
>> And 137 people got hospitalized uh five
35:15
dead and their technology is being
35:18
scaled around the US and Canada. They
35:21
they did the vendor bill building in
35:23
Manhattan. Oh
35:24
>> yeah. at the top of the building the
35:26
there is a bio alert uh solution box
35:29
testing water in a real-time fashion and
35:32
now they're scaling up across the mining
35:35
sector hospitals they got approved with
35:37
the National Institute of Health in
35:39
Maryland
35:40
>> and they're scaling very very quickly um
35:43
we're going to start doing some podcasts
35:45
with them um and they'd be a great uh
35:48
guest to to your platform as well
35:51
>> uh this is a good one
35:53
>> yeah very much Yeah,
35:54
>> another one that if I may that we have
35:56
that we're really excited uh is called
35:59
Echo Filter Tech and they're addressing
36:02
the big huge PAS problems that we hear
36:06
so much about and they were able to
36:09
develop a polymer resin that can
36:12
concentrate PAS for ease of destruction
36:16
and their technology why it's innovating
36:19
it's the the the resin itself but it's
36:22
also that they can recycle it and reuse
36:24
it the same resin
36:26
>> over and over and over which reduce
36:28
tremendously the operating cost
36:31
>> and they can do it in a very
36:34
environmentally friendly way.
36:36
>> Instead of using methanol to recycle the
36:38
polymer uh they use a naturalbased
36:42
um product to to do that. Um, even
36:46
though they're very small, almost
36:48
pre-revenue, they've attracted the
36:51
attention of several large some of the
36:53
largest utilities in in the US and some
36:56
major customers in uh in the Europe as
36:58
well. Then we're really excited about
37:00
that.
37:00
>> Ah, that's really that's awesome.
37:02
>> Yeah. Well, well, I I I feel like we
37:04
never have enough time for these
37:06
conversations and so um
37:08
>> we always need to like figure out what
37:10
part two is going to look like, but just
37:11
really appreciate um the time that we've
37:14
had today and getting to know more about
37:16
the wonderful technologies that um uh
37:19
you've invested in kind of your thesis
37:21
and and why Canada. That's fascin, you
37:23
know, I it's um it makes again it makes
37:26
sense when you think about like you know
37:28
you have water as a lab in your own
37:30
backyard so why not you know why not
37:32
innovate against it right but I never
37:34
thought about that until we got you on
37:35
the podcast Simon so I appreciate the
37:37
that
37:38
>> was a secret till now but now
37:39
>> I know that's what I mean I'm like I
37:41
never really thought about your podcast
37:42
>> that makes so much more podcast
37:44
everyone's gonna know about it
37:46
>> well the secret's out you heard it here
37:48
right
37:49
>> exactly that's awesome So
37:51
>> yeah. Well, thank you so much for um for
37:54
joining us today and um and thank you
37:57
all for tuning in, listening to this
37:59
podcast. Um we love getting to have
38:01
these conversations with folks like
38:03
Simon. So if you've enjoyed this, please
38:05
like it, comment, share, send us a note,
38:08
tell us who else you would love to hear
38:09
from who makes water work. Thanks for
38:12
listening to the Make Water Work
38:14
podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode,
38:16
please take a moment to like, share, and
38:19
subscribe so you never miss a
38:20
conversation. We'd love to hear your
38:23
thoughts and questions. Connect with us
38:25
on LinkedIn or send us a message.
38:27
Together, we can make water work for
38:29
everyone.