Latest / The Wesley Word / Let's Talk: Mental Health With Gracie

Transcript

Let's Talk: Mental Health With Gracie · The Wesley Word

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, it's Lauren and Gracie from the Future here coming at you with a cold open after recording this much longer than usual episode of the podcast and talking to each other for a very long time to let you know that some of the things that we talk about in this episode today might be a little on the heavier side.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't feel like you're in the headspace to listen to this right now, then this might be an episode that you skip around or you just come back to it later.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise we'll still love you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wesley World.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I am not Bailey Meehan.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And neither am I.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know me, my name is Lauren Hundley, and I am joined by my lovely roommate, Gracie Pope.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um we are both seniors about to, well, I'm about to graduate in May.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what are your plans?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I'm doing a half victory lap and I will graduate in December.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm on co-op, so just engineering things.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Pushed it back a little bit.
• 1:09
  unknown: You know.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of wish I could have co-op too, but you know.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all engineers get all the privilege, all the opportunities.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you don't know me very well, uh just a brief spiel of where you may recognize me from or the things that I do in Wesley.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am the worship leader, have been for three years officially um on Sunday nights, and I also lead a small group.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also I wanted us to give a couple fun facts about ourselves.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was racking my brain.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I don't have that many fun things about myself, but uh, I don't know.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can say the alphabet backwards.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: TikTokly quirky.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Quirky, yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: You like TikTok?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I do like TikTok, sure.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I made the Clemson Wesley TikTok account.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't made anything in a while.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I need to get on that.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of fallen by the wayside, unfortunately.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what else?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can wiggle my ears.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've broken both of my arms.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was not very fun in the moment, but it's funny now.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what about you?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's your life?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I guess starting out with my Wesley involvement, I uh I guess you could say I was pretty power hungry.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've been involved in a lot of things Wesley leadership-wise in my time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um helped out with some freshman social events and then prayer team.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I started oh, even tied co-coordinator, and then I started a cool new um committee team called the Connections team, where we help like foster community within Wesley, which is so fun.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Connections is awesome.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my fun facts, I uh can juggle.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy gardening and being outside.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I have no free time.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is that a fun fact?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's not fun, but it's true.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um Gracie can juggle, and I've seen it, but I guarantee like 90% of the people currently in Wesley have not seen you juggle.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have to demonstrate at some point.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll call you up on stage one Sunday.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great idea.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh during a song.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, instead of Steve preaching, you'll just juggle.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Interpretive.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Interpretive juggling.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's your fun fact.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You were in the interpretive dance ministry when you were in high school.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Which personally, I think that's your off-brand trait.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Super off-brand.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So now that you know a little bit more about us, um, this episode is gonna look a little different than anything that's been on the podcast so far.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to take a moment to talk about, you know, what it is we're doing and why we're doing it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me, I've seen a lot this year and this semester in particular, both as a small group leader and just in Wesley in general.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there have been a lot of really interesting conversations, really thought-provoking conversations about, you know, various topics and ideas that are clearly on people's hearts and that they've been holding on to for a long time.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's clear to me that there's um a desire to talk about these topics, uh, usually like pretty serious or at least like semi-serious things within this community, but those opportunities are like really hard to come by sometimes.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um in my small group in particular, I feel like after these conversations, um I've recommended to people like a lot of the time, I've like, oh, if you're this sounds like something you're really passionate about.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you're interested, like you should make an episode of the podcast and have this conversation and start the dialogue if you feel like it's something we don't talk about enough.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I feel like I've said that enough where like I need to put my money where my mouth is, you know.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have, I've been taking charge in a lot of these conversations because there are a lot of things that I want to talk about.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, if I'm gonna recommend that to people, I should probably be willing to do that myself first, just to sort of test the waters and see how it goes.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um also, another reason that we're doing this episode is that um, you know, it's about mental health.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very easy to uh forget that you're not alone, that you're not the only one going through things when you're going through something tough, or if you're having big questions about your faith or really anything else that's causing you some turmoil, it can often feel very isolating.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so what I hope this episode and um a possible future series may do is uh show that you're never the only one who's felt what you're feeling and that it doesn't really have to be scary to talk about these things, uh, to talk about what's on your mind with the people you trust.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, like I said earlier, if this goes well, I wouldn't maybe I would be interested in, you know, doing a series where I have these conversations with people.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know, I feel like I know a little bit about the ins and outs of how to make a podcast episode.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um if that's something you're interested in, it doesn't really have to be anything like super earth-shattering.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're not like reinventing the wheel here.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you, you know, it could be about like church culture or like discussing some belief that you have or an experience you've had or social issues, like really anything.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you have an interest in having that discussion, um, not even a discussion, we're just having a conversation among friends.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um, if that's something you're interested in, I think that would be a really great series for this podcast.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Gracie's my guinea pig for today.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna see how it goes.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, I'll just see if it's worth exploring in the future.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So why specifically are Gracie and I doing an episode together?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And why are we talking about mental health?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, she might have some more to add here, but this is something that she and I have both spent a lot of time talking about over the last year or so.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've both kind of been going through it um in different ways, as we'll get into later.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's something that's really important to us, and it's something that we know is important to a lot of people in Wesley.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of these big conversations that I've been a part of have been related to mental health in some way, so it's really clear to me that there's at least some desire for more dialogue, and um I'm hoping that this can be, you know, a part of that conversation um and get, you know, some discussion going.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wesley does a pretty good job of talking about mental health already, and I think we'll talk more about Wesley a bit later.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, there's always room for more, always room for discussion and growth.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um before we get like really dive into it, I want uh, you know, keep in mind that the experiences that we're gonna share are very specific to us.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not everything we talk about will be perfectly relevant to your life, and like that's totally fine.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not here to say that our individual experience, um, if we say something or we're going we've gone through something that you feel like you have gone through or like it's similar to your life experience, um, our actions and experiences don't have to align perfectly.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not what we were saying.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, we're hoping that the stories that we share today and our individual experiences can be uh just part of a much larger conversation about mental health, um, both as a like as a whole and how we think about it, um, like as a society and as Christians specifically.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to make this conversation um flow and keep things pretty cohesive, I have a list of questions and a sort of general direction that I hope this uh conversation will go in.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of this is like us just playing it by ear.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we're just sort of testing the waters and seeing if this will be um a good idea for exploring in the future.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm excited to talk about this because um it is something that I know is so important to so many people, but um you know, we'll just see how this episode goes.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so before we get started, I do kind of want to talk about the general direction we'll be going in and what we'll talk about.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um in case, you know, there are parts you want to skip around to or um, you know, just to give you a general idea of what to expect.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um today we'll be talking about our own stories and experiences with mental health, um, in the church specifically, but also just in life in general.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will be talking about uh seeking a diagnosis and treatment, being treated for ADHD.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Gracie will touch on her story if she wants to explain a little bit more here.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so I'm yeah, kind of same as Lauren, just how I knew something was wrong and sort of going um to get help and what that has been like.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we'll also talk um about Wesley in particular and how it has shaped our mental health experience and our um college experience in general.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So first, I want to open up the conversation by exploring how growing up in the church and in our society in general affects mental health and the way that we think about it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, growing up in the church specifically, it's sort of it's hard to recognize in the moment when you're younger, but looking back, it's so clear to me how growing up in the church instilled me with uh a lot of beliefs and worldviews.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in my experience, a lot of these worldviews are not explicit.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're just sort of implied by your community, like the culture around you teaches you how to think in a very particular way.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so how that affects mental health is that there's this, I don't know, there's this general idea to me, present in the church that mental health crises or diagnoses are personal failures as a result of like your, you know, there's something wrong with your faith life.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Your walk with God is wrong.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, something it's your fault and you are like not praying enough or something like that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a result, anything like suicide or any sort of action that you take as a result of your your mental health along those lines is sinful.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so like just that whole idea sort of um prevents uh honest conversation and like pursuing treatment because uh you know, if you think it's your own fault, that's gonna keep you from you know, uh um wanting to uh explore that.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And even like opening up to people that you trust in the church, you know, and like people that you could go to for help just doesn't really um like foster that ability to reach out and kind of let people know what's going on when there's that like taboo-ness around it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally agree.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think growing up, I was told like if you have something wrong, like your relationship with God is not great, and that's your fault, and like you've fallen out of favor with God, and like obviously this was never said outright, but very much implied.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it was really interesting um thinking and looking back on the impact that growing up in the church has had on this kind of stuff.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, definitely.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, it's hard to realize that until you're older and can reflect how just how deeply that the church, you know, for all the positive experiences that I had growing up in the church, um, you know, it it leaves you with things to unpack and unlearn.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that takes a lot of time and mental effort.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so generally, you know, what you learn in church affects how you think about not just your church life, but your life in general.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you combine my influence from the church and also just like how society influences you and the way that the media you consume and the things you're taught influence your thought processes as a kid, I was under the impression that in order to seek therapy or really any other sort of mental health treatment, help, whatever, that you had to be like very, very suicidal or like have debilitating anxiety or like something radical and terrible was making your life unlivable, essentially.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was, I thought you had to be at the end of your rope in whatever way.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um or I mean, I also thought of it as like you maybe have like super bad anger management problems, or you're a couple in couples therapy.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like to me, that was the only reason you would ever, those are the only reasons you would ever seek any sort of therapeutic intervention.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think I implicitly believed that in order to seek mental health care, that I would have to be very much not okay in a way that was very noticeable.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I felt like I was getting by.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, even when I started to think something was up, I was like, I don't need to talk to anybody.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still a functioning person, you know?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I don't really remember even like seeing this kind of thing portrayed in media that we consumed growing up, never in a book or on TV.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think the closest thing was like that show 13 Reasons Why.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think that was the first big like piece of like media that kind of confronted suicide and that kind of mental health thing in general.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I just yeah, I didn't even really recognize what was going on with myself just because I had never been really exposed to anyone or anything immediately-wise, or even really in my life who had gone through that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was definitely in the same boat.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knew like coming into middle school, I think they try and, you know, it's hard to be 12 and mental health really really takes a turn when you get to middle school.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the I can remember being in school and they would try to educate you in some way, but it still leaves the impression that I don't know, at least this is how the education was in the early 2010s, that the impression is you've gotta like suicide was like all they talked about, really.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's gotta be like super serious.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like you've been through some like wild traumatic event, and like you are so sad and like upset and like you can't function as a human.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it leaves you with this idea that you have to be in the worst possible place before you can reach out.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know the intentions were good.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not knocking, I'm glad they taught us something, but I'm glad that we know more now.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think as a s as a society, we've gotten a lot better about that kind of stuff.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me specifically, um, another a big reason that I'll get into this more later, but I ended up waiting a very long time to seek diagnosis, even when I began to suspect that ADHD was the problem.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it took so long to even suspect ADHD is the problem because when I was a kid growing up, my only experience with ADHD and the only time you ever see it talked about or diagnosed ever is when it's like that stereotypical boy in your elementary school class who like can't sit still.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only idea of ADHD that really existed in popular culture or even like my own life.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had no idea that it could look any different.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so for a long time, I was dealing with some pretty challenging circumstances with like no way of describing what I was dealing with or even knowing it was a problem.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just kind of thought of them as character flaws that I was just gonna live with forever because there was no perception that it was something different and something treatable.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now I think uh Gracie and I are both gonna take some time to sort of dive into the background.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've both sort of danced around this, um, but we're gonna dive into sort of the backstory of us, you know, realizing, getting an inkling that, you know, something, something's up.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should talk to somebody, maybe I need to figure my life out.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how long we suspected that we needed help before really doing anything about it, or um how being unaware affected us and what our breaking point was.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um because that was a big thing for me.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had to hit that wall before I was like, okay, it's time.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I need to I need to get my life right.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'll go first.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll try and keep it short.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have so much detail and there's so much that uh went on, and it's it's it was pretty recent.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like every day I remember something else that sort of contributed to this problem growing and growing until it blew up in my face.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll try and keep it brief and not bore you and inundate you with details.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, sort of starting at the beginning, I've always had a terrible, terrible time management problem and issues with like procrastination and motivating myself to do anything, um, not just school, but even if it was something I was really excited about or passionate about, I just like did not have the capability to do it in advance or put the effort deserved into it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I just sort of assumed that I was experiencing these things at a normal level, really, because everyone talks about procrastination and everyone's like, oh man, I'm so lazy, I don't want to do my whatever.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I sort of assumed it was at a normal person level until really until coming to college, because the support system present in, you know, high school and even before, um, all of that was gone.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that structure had been keeping me in line.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And now that it was gone, I had no, there was nothing keeping me from spiraling really.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so college was really hard and my my uh motivation was really bad.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was sleeping very little.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just in general, a lot of the stuff was beginning to come to light that I was having some unaddressed issues.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was early in quarantine, like summer of 2020, um, when I ended up seeing a TikTok about um what ADHD can look like in adult women.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I still remember exactly where I was when I saw that first video.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it shook me so much because I had never considered that something I thought was just sort of a quirk of my life that I would have to deal with forever could potentially be a treatable issue.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it like really shook me.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even at first, when I wasn't really thinking about it in terms of ADHD, I was like, you know, at the very least, maybe there's something worth pursuing treatment-wise, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I ended up from that first TikTok, again, that was like summer of 2020.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ended up waiting a little over a year to actually do anything about it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was deeply afraid of talking to a medical professional about this because I had this fear of being dismissed or condescended to.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, when I was researching ADHD symptoms and the experiences of adult and young adult women my age, and older than me too, I saw countless stories of women trying to get diagnosis, getting a diag trying to get a diagnosis as an adult.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And their clinicians, medical professionals they spoke to just did not care to understand or listen at all.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew that I was holding out for whenever I hit the breaking point, because that was what it was gonna take to uh push me past that fear.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was just kind of waiting around for that to happen.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so being undiagnosed really obviously affected me very negatively, had a very bad impact on my mental health.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for about like my whole life.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've had this perception of myself that I'm lazy and unmotivated and irresponsible.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are so many times where I've tried, like wanted so badly to get my life together, and I've tried to, I don't know, study for a test for more than a coup like more than a couple hours in advance, you know, actually prepare or like do something even bigger and more serious to get um to a place where I felt like I was in control in control.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just completely incapable of doing anything like that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just sort of assumed it was a character flaw and that I had very little willpower compared to other people because I just had no concept of like what the problems actually were.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had this like very deep fear of graduating and joining the real world because um I was convinced that my laziness would prevent me from like holding down a job or like I would forget to do anything important, and so I wouldn't like have any friends, I would, no one would trust me with anything, I'd be broke.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I genuinely thought that's how my life was gonna turn out, or like that was the worst case scenario for me.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I spent my whole life lying to people about this because, you know, like not, I don't know, not to toot my own horn, but I've always been a good student and I've always gotten good grades.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always come across as hardworking and responsible.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I learned from a young age that it feels really good when adults and authority figures like recognize those positive traits in you and compliment you on them.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned to just like start lying to people.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, I don't think there was a single person in my life who like knew everything about this.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I lied to everyone about everything, especially my family and my close friends.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I would like, I don't know, say I had.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: an assignment when I hadn't, or like I would tell people I'd gotten a higher grade than I actually did, or I would be very vague.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like this image of me still existed.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would pretend to be very recently I would like I would pretend to be further along on college applications and grad school applications than I actually was because you know those things are so important.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it looked bad in my eyes it looked bad that I hadn't started, that I couldn't make myself start, even though I cared about both of those things very much.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for my entire life I felt like people have these expectations of me that were impossible for me to live up to authentically.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to just pretend and as a result it was just constantly overwhelming and exhausting.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's very isolating.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: No one really knew what was going on.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So to wrap that very long should be up my breaking point that I hit.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny now I can laugh at it now.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was not having a good time in the moment.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was this past fall I had just nearly failed an exam very close to failing an exam and I needed to do really well and I had known that I needed to do well for like several weeks but I could not prepare of course and so I couldn't even like it's not that I couldn't study.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even learn the material ahead of time.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I started watching the lecture videos at 10 p.m the night before and the exam was at 9.30 the next morning.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was that bad.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so obviously I did not do well.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And on its own a bad exam grade like not a huge deal but that was that final straw um and after that like everything hit the fan.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: I skipped my next class because it was a discussion based class and I knew that if I like made eye contact and talked with anyone I would start crying immediately.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't go home either because you know I live in the Wesley building and I love it but there would be people there and I could not talk to anyone.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up I uh climbed all the way up the clock tower to the Carolon room and uh by the way that is probably the most private place on campus if you are looking for a place to hysterically sob and have a breakdown I highly recommend it.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I sobbed on the phone to my parents and I told them you know I think it's time I was I told them you know I think I have ADHD and I need to talk to somebody about it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my leading up to seeking treatment.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry I talked for so long but Gracie do you have a story that you want to share?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so um I guess just to start off with I do not have a diagnosis.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: My friends and I just colloquially say um that I am quote sad girl.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes capital S, capital G.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah trademark sad girl.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes me.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's probably depression but like no diagnosis um but I have sought like professional medical help.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway to the beginning uh this fall was not fun at all um in the beginning I had just like committed myself to a lot of things Wesley things uh school things I was really stressed about like my future and what I was gonna do I was like sick for like a month with this like cold that would never go away school is really hard this is my like first semester of senior year it was just like a lot of stuff going on and I got some like really bad news from a friend.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just lots of lots of things.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I got to this point where like very slowly I started like not wanting to get out of bed in the morning and I stopped playing ultimate frisbee and like that's something that I like loved to do but I just like couldn't I didn't want to like move or do any kind of physical activity.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I used to be really regimented with my schoolwork.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would get up at like 7 30 every morning and grind like all day until like four o'clock and then I would be done for the day.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like didn't do homework on weekends because I like worked so hard during the week and that just like all went away.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was like sleeping until like 10 I was skipping all my classes I was just doing my work you know at the last possible second.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like couldn't bring myself to do much of anything.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: This also started to affect my relationships with my friends like I really started to almost like take shelter in them like I I withdrew from anyone that I was like tangentially friends with and like only really like hung out with my friends and even then I feel like I didn't really even engage with them when we were hanging out because I just like didn't want to talk about what was going on.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was so much in denial because I didn't think that this is what depression was.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't I didn't think that like what I was going through was severe enough to be something like that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought that I was like sad and tired all the time and like really overwhelmed and burnt out and all the things.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it just yeah it got to a point where all of those things just became very very severe.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of all of those things that were happening happened very slowly.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: It seemed like something would happen and I would just it would like throw me into like a two day spin of just like I can't do anything and it was hard.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And slowly like the two days became three days and four days and like just became my life was this like emotionless can't do anything time.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was really scary.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And finally like one night I just was like sitting in my room and I kind of just thought about what was going on and I was like I'm tired of this.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Again this is not me.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: I know I know this is not who I am like I am super bubbly talk to everybody like you know bouncing off the walls love to go like do things and I just I hated I couldn't do that and I was so tired of being that way.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I finally just opened up about it to my boyfriend and he was like yeah you can get through this like there are ways to get help like this is not who you have to be forever um and just like the support that I had in him and then also like say once I opened up to him I opened up to my close friends and just it was having that community around me was really good um and was very supportive in like my next steps.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's very easy to think of treatment like that as something that's great great for other people you know you're like yeah of course if someone is feeling depressed they should go talk to somebody but as soon as it's you you're like actually no I'm fine.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get over this is just a personal personal failing um I just need to try harder.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: My classes are just hard I don't know my life's hard well spoiler alert sometimes you do need to talk to someone yes speaking of talking to someone I think our next step should be talking about you know who we reached out to you did touch on opening up to people um you know who you reached out to about this and when you decided to seek treatment how it went what that situation was like what you experienced.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: For me I had sort of before I hit this breaking point I had reached out I had talked to like two people three people about it a good friend of mine has a lot of experience with children dealing with similar things and like I'm not a child but you know she was knowledgeable in this and so I spoke to her very specifically and I was like I think I'm going through this I don't want to talk about it much now but um I needed to say it out loud to somebody before I broke down.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: But as I again am sobbing on the phone in the bell tower I called both of my parents and you know they were never not supportive but it was clear that they really did not understand a lot of the things I was talking about.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard for them especially to hear that and get it because they were the ones that I had been lying to the most for really my whole life their validation meant the most to me growing up and so I did anything I could to not lose that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Again not that if I had done badly in school they would have not validated me anyway but when you're a kid kid logic you know you I was not thinking logically about this.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a result my parents had no idea what I was talking about.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would tell them what I had been dealing with for years and years through my entire school experience and they were just like they had no idea.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was so frustrated with that because I felt like they were just yeah they there was a big disconnect no communication happening and so I ended up calling each they were at work so I had to call one parent and then the other and tell them the same thing bounce back and forth have the same phone call five times in a row.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I called my mom during one of those many phone calls and she said something to me like uh she was you know trying to understand and she was like but you're not really like a procrastinator are you?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like I like lost it.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like I had to break the illusion over the phone to her like I'm again angry and I'm sobbing and I'm like mom I've always been a procrastinator like I have been I said the words to her I have been lying to you since kindergarten and it gives me chills.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like like hearing the there's like a second of silence on the other end.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that was the moment where it started to sink in for both of them that this was actually something major and I needed to like actually talk to someone about it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Again my parents have always been super supportive and I could tell it's not that they weren't believing me but they just like did not did not know how to handle it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because no one in my family has really had to my knowledge any sort of major mental health issue that required seeking professional intervention to my knowledge that has not happened at least in my immediate family.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so this was a pretty unfamiliar experience.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, please don't take this as me calling my parents unsupportive love them.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just very new territory.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So after we had all calmed down later that night my dad called me back we were all much less emotional and my dad and I walked through um we've went on our insurance website and like walked through some of the providers in my area that were covered by our insurance.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so we ended up finding this place for me to go and I was able to get an appointment pretty quickly.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just like filled out the form and the next week I was like actually I think it was like two weeks after filling out the form relatively quickly regardless I was sitting in the nurse practitioner's office and I was so nervous before the appointment I went in like preparing to not be believed or listened to and ready to like fight for being understood.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: But fortunately everything went really well the nurse practitioner I met with she was so kind and attentive and she believed every word that I said and did not talk down to me at all.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she asked lots of detailed questions and she had the ADHD diagnostic and we worked through it and I could tell that she really cared.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so leaving the appointment I just felt so filled and satisfied and like I had faced my fear and it had gone really well.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so after we worked through the diagnostic together like sure enough I I walked out of that place with a diagnosis and an Adderall prescription and it just felt like it was the answer I'd been looking for but it was just like so fast.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was like holy cow my life is about to be very different I feel like so uh now that I've given my little shbiel again uh how was your treatment experience so in the beginning I was really adamant about like doing this holistically um I'm somewhat of a hippie I like hate to take medicine we all know that person that'll like suffer through a headache because they like don't want to take the two Tylenols but like it's so stupid.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: As a science person it just pains me sometimes Yeah so I was like I am gonna get into therapy and like I don't know just do some Google and we'll fix this right because I'm a problem solver and engineer and that is what I do best.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I started calling therapists that were on my insurance in the area and I am not kidding you I called at least five and every single one of them were like sorry we're full um you know move on to someone else I mean they were much nicer than that but like it just felt so hard to hear people say that I like that what I was going through was like not important enough for them to help with which I mean that's all that's not what they were saying.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: They were saying that they didn't that they were full that they had too many people to see me but it still felt like that personal like everyone is hearing that I am in this like really bad trouble and like I am really not okay and no one is like hearing that and and wanting to help me.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's hard to have to say that so many times and then just like feel that almost rejection like that's hard.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah like I'm I feel like I'm sitting there screaming like I need help and no one is is answering or picking up the phone you know but I did get on I one place had a wait list so I said yeah put me on the wait list we'll see what happens um but at this point I like couldn't wait for a wait list like I was going crazy I just felt like so upset and I was hitting that like breaking point and knew that like I really really really needed help and like quickly so I reached out to my doctor trying to get a referral to a therapist because I thought maybe if I went through like my provider then I would get in somewhere quicker and instead my doctor wrote me a little note on the like web portal was like here's a prescription for some medicine.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow didn't call me back uh didn't like really say anything you know just sent me the prescription and I I didn't even see that message.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I got the text from CBS there was like hey we filled your prescription that's so scary.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my notice that like something had happened um which was really wild and again felt like another like door being slammed in my face like you're not human you don't have feelings like you're just another patient and here's the like a band aid.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um well let me tell you the band-aid worked I swallowed my pride and I took the medicine went got the prescription and I can like say that my life has improved so much.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I went to I my doctor said like come in for a follow-up in a few weeks and so I like went for the follow-up after I'd taken it for a few weeks and he was he said something that like really stuck with me and he was like so um like you feel like you're like a functioning human in society now and I was like yeah I I do feel like he's like welcome back to society like isn't it great and I was like yes it is thank you so much and um yeah so not what I wanted but it really helped and um if you are hippie like me just get over it and take it because it's such a great life.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: We'll test on that later it's hard.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean things are not wonder it it is not all sunshine butterflies happiness rainbows but definitely an improvement.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So and then spoiler alert I did get into therapy after being on the wait list for like a month and a half um and that experience has been incredible.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not what I expected.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been in therapy before I've heard from some people good things and bad things and so I just didn't know what to expect.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of went in with not low, not high expectations um and I've honestly had a very very good experience.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think that I have given it that like honest and like blind trust almost um I try to be like brutally honest with my therapist and say this is exactly what's going on if she asks me a question and I like don't agree like I I will be very honest with her and I think it's been really helpful.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: We've even like tackled things that I didn't think like even really had an effect on my mental health and um like I was like oh yeah this this definitely doesn't play into like what's going on with me.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then we talk about it and I'm like oh yeah I guess that was like a burden that I was carrying around and like now we've worked through it and I can like see it with the new eyes and like I don't have to carry around this like guilt and stress that I didn't even realize I was holding on to.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that's incredible.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's it's been it's been great.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I highly recommend I'm I'm very blessed that I can afford that and have access to it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow so now that Gracie has sort that she sort of touched on how her life has improved and changed and all this stuff I have been giving a lot of thought how my own life has changed and improved and all this you know all that good stuff.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's only been like I said a couple of months my diagnosis came in November and today is February 19th so not super long but you know just in general like the life changes that have come uh so much of my life has improved in ways that I really really could not have anticipated.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: My grades are better obviously um my mental health is way better and I'm a lot happier now and I'm way more social you know I'm not as preoccupied with stress and the negative self-talk that was like really weighing me down before I've been putting together a lot of instances in my life and like looking back and remembering things that happened to me where, you know, knowing that I have ADHD now explains a lot about what I did.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a lot more forgiving to myself now.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to kick myself for you know doing things that I there were behaviors that I knew were bad or things that I was doing that I I couldn't explain why I was doing them and I couldn't stop doing them.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like talking way too much saying something out of line out of pocket uh not working hard enough at something or like so many other things I don't even have time to get into all of it but you know knowing that so much of what I used to be self-conscious about and feel bad about and talk down to myself for so much of that is out of my hands and has an actual cause.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And realizing that and thinking about that has been really encouraging and it's definitely changed how I see myself like my perception of myself has changed radically in the last like three or four months.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so by no means is like everything perfect now like Gracie said.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so much that it's definitely improved.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think like our friends like knowing what's going on with both of us is like given oh yeah so like and them having like so much grace for us and like saying oh I you know you seem like you're struggling today like is everything okay like I'm here for you like having that support that like I mean they obviously knew that something was wrong with both of us um like prior to also we both got diagnosed like the same or we both went through our stuff yeah at the same time in November.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So like they knew it was up or they knew something was up but like now like us being open and and vulnerable with them has just been really great and we have such an awesome support system.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're so lucky.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of openness and vulnerability I have a question for you.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: How comfortable are you talking about this with people who are not necessarily your tight homies?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um now I am kind of like who cares?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: I will talk about it to anybody because it's part of who I am yeah I think I too went through a little bit of an identity crisis like this is who I am now and like is this like very scared like is this who I'm gonna be permanently is this something that's gonna follow me around forever um but I've kind of come to terms with that and like this is a journey and this is not something that just like happened.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is probably something I've been carrying around for a long time and just like didn't really know.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'll talk to anybody I think it's important to be open and there are so many people going through very similar things.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it like I like like we said it it gives us some grace um with other people and you know hey I need you to do this and I'm like hey I I really have no space like please you know give me some um room to kind of breathe and I can't put this on my plate right now.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been really great talking to people um and I think I've kind of re-entered Wesley society to some extent like I feel much more comfortable and safe like talking to people just not even about that but just like about regular normal everyday things much more social.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm pretty much back to the normal Gracie.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been really nice.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome yeah it's definitely gotten a lot better for me I'm I'm definitely approaching who cares territory now.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: But at first it was I don't know it was so hard because on one hand um I had this deep I had this deep internal struggle with how to talk about it because I don't know on one hand I wanted to tell every single person because like you said when our friends are aware of why we are the way that we are and they have this um you know understanding of us they can give us the grace like the specific grace that we require in that moment.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to tell every single person I knew really because not only did I want that grace from them but I knew if there was any chance that they had ever thought of me as lazy or irresponsible that I wanted them to know that hey there's actually a reason for that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not actually lazy I just needed help.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand I had such awful awful awful imposter syndrome that I was really afraid to be super honest with anyone about it.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: ADHD is a big thing.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: You said identity crisis and I definitely a lot of people in ADHD circles on the internet you know it's like a big part of who they are and like that's not a good or bad thing.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like that's how they deal with what's going on in their lives.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me I was like am I gonna have to reframe the whole way that I think about myself but I was afraid to do that and have that internal um reflection because I was so afraid that I was somehow actually just like lying to myself for attention and that like I just wanted drugs to get an easy fix uh for a problem.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe I should have just been able to fix it myself.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, again, back to the church conversation.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe, you know, this is the way I was created, and it's my job, it's my burden that I've been given to fix this problem myself.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's just my struggle.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as Christians, we're supposed to struggle.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have heard this.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's awful.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's awful.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't have to struggle.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Life does not have to be hard.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been, you know, overcoming this a lot recently.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I keep saying this, but this was really like four months ago.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this is all very fresh, very new.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, recently I've gotten a lot more comfortable talking about it.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually in conversation with Gracie because I've been talking about it so much, and we were both um talking about our experiences, and she was like, Why don't we make a podcast episode about it?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like, if you had asked me that in like November or December, I would have been like, Hell no.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not happening.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: But now, I don't know, I've come to terms with it a lot more.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so the imposter syndrome is still there, but like it's it's much more manageable, and I feel way more comfortable with this, you know.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's no audience that I can see.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know y'all are out there, I guess, but this is just very comfortable.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I even had this thought like while you're talking about the imposter syndrome and everything.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, anyone that like heard your like spiel about, you know, how this like came to be and how you realized, like, they would say, no way you have imposter syndrome.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like, no way, like, can't you see that like this is something that is like so not great?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I totally understand, like, hearing that, but then also like just knowing, like, yeah, but maybe, you know, like maybe, maybe not.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this is all in my head, you know.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just so hard.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: We rationalize so much about our experiences because we live in our own heads.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very easy, again, to look at another person and be like, you're obviously struggling, like, please get help.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's you your own problems, you're like, no, I'm like, this is just something I need to figure out myself.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's very easy to spiral and overthink.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Name of the game.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's something I really quickly I wanted to say about getting a diagnosis.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I sort of touched on this earlier, and that ADHD is like a big word, a big term.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of people, it is an identity.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really sure how I feel about that one way or the other.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when I've been trying to frame it in my head and like, you know, how do I think about this?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: How is it affecting me?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: What language can I use to describe this in my life?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hesitant to think of it as a mental health problem.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: For my, this is my own personal opinion.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have ADHD, I'm not telling you how to think about it.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm person I I hesitate to think of it as a mental health thing because the way that I've begun framing it is like sort of like a chronic health issue, maybe instead of something that I would like seek therapy for.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is just like a treatment, like I'm treated for it, and I don't know, I didn't frame ADHD itself as something that was affecting my mental health because I have ADHD.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: But rather, what was making my mental health so bad was um being undiagnosed and letting that go for so long, even when I suspected and was pretty sure that I needed a diagnosis, letting it go for so long, that's what was really making my mental health bad.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, even though in some circles ADHD is not necessarily framed as a mental health issue and it's not really talked about in that way, it absolutely can cause them.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And waiting to waiting to get diagnosed until I had a breakdown was definitely not the wisest decision on my part.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so learning that like leaving some, it's like it's like if you have a broken leg or I don't know, that's a bad example.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have some, you have some problem in your body that's like, you know it's there, and you're like, maybe I should get this looked at.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you leave it alone and the pain gets worse and worse and worse.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe the pain is not because of that one specific instance that caused whatever it is, but if you leave it untreated, it's gonna get worse.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: And learning to frame mental diagnoses, issues, whatever, um, they're hard to conceptualize, right?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hard to imagine as being super serious, especially if you've never experienced them.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: But changing my mindset to think of them as like because everyone takes physical ailments seriously, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, broken leg.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, people will be like, go to the hospital, your leg is broken.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so learn to think of it as like there's a serious problem.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just happens to be in your brain, and we can't see it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when I learned that like the mental health things are like typically like imbalances in your brain chemistry, I was like, oh wow, this is not just like something that people make up, like, which I learned a few years ago, not not recently, but like still that kind of I think it made everything a little bit more real to me.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know why, I just had never realized that like this is a like physical thing that happens, but it's in your brain and not like in a random body part.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So switching gears a little, now that we've both given our experiences and talked about, you know, our own personal experiences with mental health, I want to talk about the church today and how church culture frames mental health and how um, you know, we talked about it a little earlier about our experience as children.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would say that, you know, in terms of obstacles to proper mental health discussion in the church and access, I'd say things are much better now than we were than they were when we were kids.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's still some attitudes that existed back then that are still very, very much present today, and they can easily prevent people from getting the help they need.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big problem, I feel like, in the church, um, with a desire, and I f we should preface this.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: When we say in the church, we're not talking about any specific church in this area or a church that we grew up in.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's the Capital C church, like Christian culture, especially in America.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the South, the South in particular, absolutely.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, growing up on the Bible belt, it will do stuff to you for sure.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: But in the Capitol C church, there's a big problem I've noticed with the desire to maintain your image and like save face in the church and to appear strong in your faith and in your life, even when you're not, because if you have any sort of responsibility, people that'll get snatched away from you real quick if in some church spaces.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much judgment present about so many things in the church.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it can often be like impossible for people to be fully honest about what it is they're going through, um, and impossible to find solace in a community that's supposed to be loving and supporting, but it just it's very easy for it to not feel like that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of back to your holistic hippie anti-medicine comment, not accusing you of this at all.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say that in a lot of Christian circles, there's this general maybe not quite anti-science sentiment, but like a hesitant to a hesitation to trust fully in science.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that I've seen lead to this like idea that we shouldn't trust medication or we shouldn't um you know, taking medication that affects your mental state, your mental functioning in some way is bad and like anti-Christian.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely had this idea going into starting to take my prescription was that it made me less me.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, there's this perception when you grow up in the church.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Again, no one told me this explicitly, but I had this idea that maybe, you know, is this me not being happy with the way I was created?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did God make me this way?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like the I like instead of taking medicine, maybe I should just work harder to make my natural God-given existence work.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and taking taking medicine is like taking the easy way out, disrespecting creation and the the path that was set before me.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that idea definitely still persists in my head somewhat, even as someone who loves science um and is pursuing a career in science and knows logically in my brain that that's silly and that medication is good and has uh improved my life in so many ways, the attitude is still kind of present and it's hard to work through.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, but you like contrast it with like heart operations or you know, uh any kind of like surgery.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that not the same thing?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or people that take like um blood pressure medication?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just yeah, it's physical versus mental, but it's it's all it's all physical.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's all like things happening in your body, like actual functions of your body.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just chemistry, you know.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the church talking about mental health in the church could be an hours-long conversation.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's so much to say there, but and you know, not to say that any of the things that we've said, any of these critiques that we've given mean that the Capital C church is bad or that we are absolutely always terrible at handling mental health, but there are certainly ways to grow.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we've talked about the big C church.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to talk about Wesley in particular, the ways that we handle mental health and the ways that, you know, your Wesley experience, our Wesley experiences have impacted our mental health.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything you want to say?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think uh first of all, hearing Steve talk about his own like journey has been super impactful.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've heard like people, older people in Wesley give their pers perspective talks and talk about like their experiences, but like hearing like a real adult, like a person that you like trust and look up to talk about going through like similar things as you and realizing like this is not just some like thing that happens to people who are unlucky.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like this happens to everyday normal people who are in positions of power, like just like I am, you know.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I'm our me and Steve's positions of power are very different, but you know, like people that are in leadership, this is not with influence.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, like this is something that can happen.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that there are ways to not just live with it, but like live into it and use it as you know, force of good.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I seeing people in Wesley talk about this stuff other than Steve and myself and Lauren has been really cool.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just to know that like you're not alone and there are other people going through this very same thing or similar things or just mental health in general.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not a singular experience to just a few people.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think our community is really wonderful in terms of that.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we joke about it a lot.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you hear jokes all the time, people are like, oh yeah, my therapist said this to me the other day, and they talk about it in like a lighthearted way, or they joke like, oh, I forgot to take my meds today, BRB, and they have to go, you know, whatever.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but to me, those those jokes are in are indicative of the the very accepting and like loving culture that we have cultivated here.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Safety.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Safety, absolutely.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can confide in each other like that.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously we don't all just talk about it as jokes all the time.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we do have these serious conversations.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think anyone ever like stands up at Wesley worship and is like, hey guys, forgot to take my med, you know.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: But um But like in the like small circles and the people that you trust and like meet and the relationships that you build.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so little stigma.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's no secret that a lot of us are dealing with mental health issues, and we I think we're very good about addressing that in these group settings.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we're also really good about encouraging awareness, I think, in the ways that we talk to each other about things.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like, I don't know, when I was a freshman, I didn't think I had anything going on.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would hear, again, I would hear people talk about it and I was like, interesting.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it got the conversation going.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and good for them.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can't believe they're like sitting up and talking about it, you know?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, as we've both touched on, there's like a lot of things that we're really good at.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm wondering, you know, as someone who's in, as you are someone who's in a position of influence and leadership, is there a way that you see, you know, not something that we're doing bad?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really don't think there's anything egregious that we're doing bad at all, but rather, you know, there's always places to grow.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a a place that you see a potential for growth?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think the one of the shining stars of our community is that we are a community and, you know, we're really connected with each other to walk through, you know, the good and the bad.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think it's really important that we continue to make this place a community.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because the second that people stop interacting with each other, putting forth effort into relationships and meeting new people and and welcoming the freshmen, and you know, there's that senior slump where seniors just kind of fall off the face of the earth.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think putting in the effort to create this community and continue its um its lasting impacts is really important.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my little tagline is, you know, you're gonna get out what you put in.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that needs to keep happening because you have to put in effort.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Someone's got to do that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really, it's everyone should be doing that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's the the little hill that I will die on as connections um coordinator that we have to be welcoming, we have to be h hospitable and like cultivate that community within our community because otherwise we're not a community.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: And how many times can I say community in one sentence?
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's an important word.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Worth the emphasis.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think um, you know, there's always room to make that community stronger.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it takes that effort.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Intentionality is important.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: And scraping the walls, yes, like pulling in scraper.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: This the those people that you see like not standing in a group.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is that is why are they not standing with someone?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that needs to not happen.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: We need to be a community where everyone is welcome in every circle.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, as we begin to wrap up this conversation, which has been really fruitful for me.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a really great time.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering if you had any sort of final words of advice, something that you wish someone had told you or that you wish you had known.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: For me, one thing I will say, I mentioned TikTok earlier as a joke.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was not joking.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Also, like it's it's a funny, you know, it TikTok is an interesting place.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is very much where I got a lot of the information that I didn't have.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would not have known so much of what I know about ADHD and how it can present in adult women, in a tinted type ADHD in particular, which is what I think I'm dealing with.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: If it hadn't been for TikTok, I wouldn't have known any of that existed.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: But my major caveat to using the internet as a source, please do not let the internet diagnose you.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but rather use your resources and gather reputable information.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I saw these TikToks, they were not from just like I mean, it's great to have for people to talk about their own personal experiences, but when it came to like symptoms and like what diagnosis is like and all this stuff, reputable sources are on TikTok and on the internet in general.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like use your internet media literacy that you've probably gotten from growing up in the age of the internet and apply those skills to find valuable, reputable information and how to seek help for it.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of seeking help, something that comes up a lot in Wesley's circles and just like in life in general, I've heard so many people talking about their experiences with therapy.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think that's the help that you need, then absolutely look into it.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's daunting and often inaccessible, but you know, you can have an experience like Gracie where you're on a wait list and then all of a sudden you're not, and then you're getting the help you needed way earlier than you thought you would.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and something I wanted to touch on earlier is that, you know, I'm I'm not in therapy.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I've been looking around for it.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's something that I think, again, I'm still growing and learning through this.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that I want to pursue in the future because, you know, um, your friends are great, but sometimes you need someone to talk to who like isn't going to be burdened and weighed down by what you have to say to them, you know.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not that you should ever think that your friends are burdened and weighed down by you.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I've had this thought many times, so relatable.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we've all been on the receiving end of like, you know, sometimes you're you're just uh not in the headspace to talk to your friend about something they really need to talk about.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, it's good to have that neutral party that you can talk to in a professional setting who has that expertise.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm still looking around for that.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not afraid to talk about that.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm about to leave, so I'm hesitant to do something in Clemson right now.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Another piece of advice that I have, I think, is to not be afraid to reach out to someone and cultivate this like mentor type relationship.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Something that Gracie and I have both really strongly benefited from is like having these older people to look up to.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I ever had like a like one mentor, but just like being able to look up to the older people in Wesley and like seeing them as positive influences and the things they went through.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is there anything that you want to add to that?
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you might have had more of an experience with that.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: I had um great mentors who were older than me and Wesley who went through very similar things to me, um, could kind of like give me what they went through and what they did and what worked and what didn't work, and just like listen to what I'm going through and like hear me.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that kind of like segues into another piece of advice is like you no matter what, like advocate for yourself.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are gonna be heard by somebody, um, even if everyone slams a door in your face, like advocating for yourself is never shameful, is never something that like you should give up on uh because you are a person and you are special and God loves you and I love you and everyone loves me.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um sorry, but yeah, continue to advocate for yourself.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um even if it's hard, even if you have to go to a friend and they have to help you, or you know, like getting over that little pride bump.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um don't be afraid to be honest, yeah.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like really soul bearing, like with your whole chest, honesty.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's hard, but to the people closest to you, yeah.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: One more piece of advice to wrap up, sort of back to the mentor thing and being vulnerable with people.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: If there's someone that you really look up to, do not be afraid to reach out to them and like start like forming that relationship with them.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: And on the flip side of that, if you are older or in a leadership position or whatever it may be, and you uh sense that someone is looking up to you, don't please don't hesitate to reach out to them and like you don't have to straight up be like, I want to mentor you through this life experience, but like form that that bond and that relationship and it it'll do like amazing things.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, invite them over to bake cookies or watch a movie or like just like do like go on a walk.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't even have to be, hey, let's sit down and have coffee and like let's spill each other's life secrets.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: It does not have to be like that serious or that formal.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's mentorship is also a friendship, you know, and definitely, yes.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're all the same, we're all like within four years of each other in Wesley.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not crazy at all.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's we're all young and basically the same age.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's doesn't have to be weird at all.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: But there are people that are, you know, you're older than you that like took these same classes last year and and they know, you know.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was definitely afraid to reach out to people when I was younger, and I have a lot of regrets about that.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because there were a lot of people that I looked up to, and you know, I did get a lot of wisdom and mentorship from them, but I wished that I had been brave enough to be like, I want to get lunch and talk with you, you know.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: Not even to like talk about my experiences, but just to like hear yours and talk and be normal.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that's all that we wanted to say, really.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: We've touched on a lot, we've talked a lot.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: So props to you if you've made it this far.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm impressed.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: To wrap up, there's just I just wanted to say that if you um have any questions at all about anything we've said, whether you want to reach out to one of us specifically about something specific that we've been through, or if you just have a general question, or if you want to just looking for someone to talk to about things like this, please don't hesitate to reach out to either of us.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like a lot of people in Wesley have our phone numbers now, but I think they're also going to be in the description of this episode, as well as our Instagram usernames.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to like follow us and DM us on there.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: DM us on Group Me, you know, like whatever.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions at all, you just want to talk about these things, you know.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have been through it, are currently going through it.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'd love to, you know, talk with you about these kind of things.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you find this podcast episode years down the road.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um true.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure I'll have the same phone number.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: Please, please track me down.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't changed my Instagram username since like seventh grade, so yeah.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: For real?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Probably.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mine used to be um oh, this is so embarrassing.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like gap uh underscore loves underscore you.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very sixth grade.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: So sixth grade.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: My first Instagram username was Lauren the Scientist.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, that's so cute.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's another story.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: I could talk about Lauren the Scientist.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: She was a little character I came up with.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, now we're rambling a little bit.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: So before we wrap up again, one more time, I do want to rehash the um, you know, that this episode is possibly the first in what may be a series.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you found this conversation interesting, um, it might not, whatever your topic is, it does not have to be as long as however this episode is gonna be.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have not edited it yet.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to even be as serious or as solemn, you know.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we have handled this in a pretty not too serious, I don't know.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Neutral.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all know what I'm trying to say.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be the most earth-shattering, crazy thing.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're looking for a place to start a dialogue, you know, I think this is this would be an interesting series.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: So like um please uh don't hesitate to text me or talk to me if you whenever you see me next, and we could have a cool little conversation on the podcast and have a nice little chat.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a lot of potential to get some really good discussions and ideas floating around.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to that.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um do you have any final thoughts before we um if I could write community on my forehead, I would.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: Someone um go through this episode and count how many times Gracie said word the said the word community.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's probably a million.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: So but that's my my final thought.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: Build community.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um well thank you for listening.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um Gracie and I have both bared our souls to y'all today.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ah to the internet.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everything everything on the internet.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: Everything on the internet never goes away.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so thank you for listening.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being patient with us.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I hope that you know, if there was something you needed to get out of it, that you were able to get that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I hope this finds you in a good place.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: And again, if y'all have anything you want to talk to us about, don't hesitate.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, we'll see y'all later.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: The Wesley Word is a production of the Clemson Wesley Foundation.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: For more information about Clemson Wesley, check out our website or follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, get out there and love your neighbor.