Latest / MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose / Episode 145: The “Crisis of Capability”: David Thomas and Sissy Goff on Raising Kids Who Can Handle Real Life

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Episode 145: The “Crisis of Capability”: David Thomas and Sissy Goff on Raising Kids Who Can Handle Real Life · MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose

• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is Cynthia Gannoff and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey friends, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm the only one that feels like yesterday we were doing New Year's resolutions and then like tomorrow, the kids are out of school.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the spring is flying.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm just thankful that you guys show up every week.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not lost on me that life gets busy and hectic.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for tuning in and listening.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanna put a plug in for May.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are gonna have a fun month of shows all around the topic of motherhood.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: different types of mothers, people I know that you don't know people that you know all kinds of things.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to be a fun month that I want you to join us and I know life's going to get busy.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just putting plug in there a little bit early.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I also want to let you know again that I'm speaking engagements for the fall of the share and spring of next year.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you love your church and your women's ministry,
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go talk to your women's minister.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to come visit or maybe you heard a Christian ministry.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've had so many of you reach out for all kinds of different things and I would love to join you if I can make that work.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for thinking of me for all the speaking things coming up in your world.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, if you have not read my book, how'd I miss that?
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would love for you to grab a copy.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you have read it, would you leave a review?
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then also, as we're going in a mother's day, it would be a fun gift for your mom's or your mom friends.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just jump on Amazon, you can grab it there.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: How'd I miss that?
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, today you guys, Sissy and David are on Sissy Goff, David Thomas.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're on the show quite a bit.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love them so much.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: They are counselors out of Nashville.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like they're America's counselors now, like everybody kind of just leans on them, listen to their podcast, raising boys and girls.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just amazing.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they love the Lord, they love our kids and they love talking parenting.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today we're going to talk about their new book out called Capable.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: how to teach your kids the strength, skills, and strategies to build resilience.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, we're talking about what does it look like to build resilience in our kids and capability and sturdiness and all the things our kids desperately need.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So today's a fun show, there always lots of fun and very informative.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So tune in, here we go, let's kick it off with Sissy and Dave.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good morning, David.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sister, how are you?
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Better for seeing your face and getting to have a conversation with you, friend.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Always better when we are in your company.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You say that, guys, but here we are in its Monday morning and you don't ever quite know what I'm going to say, and so, and staying with my usual fashion, I'm going to start you off with something that I feel like you should know, first of all, in my second book that's coming out, I said that y'all are like my parenting mentors and that you surely didn't sign up for it, you don't know it,
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought like that was a compliment until I'm going to tell you story and then I think maybe I did you a disservice because if you're my parenting mentor and this is going on over here, you're going to be like, oh, I wonder so let me tell you quick story and I'm going to get to the point.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, recently, with my youngest, you know, remember I have two one in college, well two in college, and then I have a little one we adopted from foster care, and he's nine.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he now has the second floor of our house to himself, because the last one, the middle one, which college.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't want to stay in bed, so he gets out and he roams, goes to everybody's room at night.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has like a whole party up there, and so we've been saying, like, do not get out of your bed.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: a few weeks ago.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my Kentucky men, everything in two minutes, screaming, crying up there.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what is going on?
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what?
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I bolted up there and he's sitting on the floor and he has like a wash rag like in his mouth and I was facing screaming.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what are you doing?
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, it's the pepper.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the peppermint.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like the peppermint.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what did you get?
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, I can't tell you you're going to be mad.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, I'm already mad because you got out of bed.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's carry on.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so finally, I'm personally
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: He takes me into a sister's room and he points to something that I realized the peppermint was actually pepper spray.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: He maced the sunburn house and when I tell you I was in too far guys to realize what had happened and also I'm coughing and choking in my eyes and watering and I'm like you maced us, you maced us, you screaming crying I'm like going nuts and so my husband's coming
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on?
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm like, JB May's the second forward.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, why is it so he is the common one, guys?
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: OK, and he takes JB immediately the shower and is like spraying him off.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he has lots of curly kind of afro hair.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so he's getting, and I'm over there, like, using makeup wipes and baby wipes, trying to tear my skin off.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: OK, about that time he gets out of the shower.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Mike's getting his hair dried off.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess there was a bunch of it in his hair.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it gets up in Mike's face.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even lying, you guys.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mike starts vomiting, okay?
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the whole time, do you know what?
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm screaming the whole time.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't you ever get out of bed again.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what happens.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: When you get out of bed.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I tell you this first child, you guys know this, right?
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: First child, you're on your way to the ER.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Second child you're calling poison control.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: At least third child you're just screaming at him.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's why you don't get out of bed That's you guys
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: He makes himself.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I found out later everybody in his defense if he ever hears this one day, which he won't.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I we laugh about it, he knows.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: His sister told him it was pepper spray.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't ever touch it.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why it's in her drawer and her room and not at college, but you tell him don't touch it.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, well, it must be something good.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he thought it was like pepper mint spray.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there you go.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's...
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's your Monday morning reminder of why can't you do matters because people like me Like we're screwing this generation up.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's happening and that's where we are That's the state of the union.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: So good morning everyone
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that story is a perfect picture of why we wish we could begin every day with you, Cynthia.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, hey, man.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a perfect story on why you guys do what you do.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's fodder for another book.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can probably meet with a parent today and be like, listen, you're not doing that bad.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's this girl that has a pot to open.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you were just doing out there.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's kind of the state of the Union of Parenting and the Yanof Household, and I was thinking about this and how you guys are so good at kind of giving the state of the Union on parenting in a good way, not like I am.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, like the state of the Union literally is when a president says, like, here's currently what's going on in our country, and here's like a, here's what the concerns are and here's the call of action.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, well, let's just do that today, like,
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys have a new book coming out and we'll talk a lot about that, but like what is the current state of the union of our kiddos and and what are some of the red flags you're seeing, which obviously led to another book.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So kick us off with that.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have been talking, I mean, as you said, we're
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: getting to have a lot of conversations with kids and parents in our counseling offices, and this book is a reaction to that to what we're hearing every day, and we would call it a crisis of capability that as a result of the mental health epidemic among kids, the mental health crisis that we know has been from a surge in general standpoint, in effect since 2021, he has not rescinded it is certainly still true in terms of what we're seeing.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: from the impact of technology on kids, from the parenting strategies that we're seeing every day from the most well-meaning parents that I see.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I see me, like right, I see you.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you that are really, I think so much of the strategies are, how do I not feel my kids?
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I keep them out of counseling?
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: because of my own failures.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then David and I would add even some of what parenting experts are saying the kids we think all saying the parents today we think all of that is contributing to this crisis of capability and even.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so many of us have read Jonathan Heights, great work that anxious generation.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it made us very attuned to what's wrong.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we want to talk about what can be right.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about what we can do in light of all the things that are going on culturally around us.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the book titles capable how to teach your kids the strength skills and strategies to build resilience and I was looking through the book this morning And I love that you were saying how the terminology even with our kids is changing how you and I probably said back in the day we're stressed and they would say they're anxious or I'm just a little down or sad we might have said and they're going to say I'm depressed or
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: you even made the point that some kids in the house would have said like I'm going to run away versus now like I'm thinking about hurting myself and so talked with a little bit about how this terminology is changing and also how the self-diagnosing that's going on maybe some of the concerns around that yeah well I can jump in because I feel like girls are doing it more than police okay yeah they would I just ran over you though do you want to answer no please go forward
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I remember the point when I first started hearing kids use what I would say is the specific terminology from the DSM, which is the manual I would use if I were going to diagnose kids.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't diagnose kids at day star purposefully.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they were memorizing the bullet points because there was this sense of if I don't have a diagnosis, my feelings aren't valid, my experiences are valid because so many other kids around them have this diagnosis and so that was probably I would say since the seven years ago.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It shifted from I felt like kids were Googling it now.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the primary source for mental health information for kids is TikTok.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're learning about all these diagnosis all these genuinely valid experiences people are having.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they are naming those for themselves.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are diagnosing themselves with those things.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: The latest that I'm hearing more and more kids talk about dissociating.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for kids who've been through trauma, that is a very significant byproduct of the trauma they've encountered.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there are a lot of kids who are watching influencers who have who are dissociating and now they're saying that's what's happening to me when I sometimes check out in class, they're just they're really pathologizing normal experiences and emotions in a way that I think takes away the power and
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: the validity for the kids who are truly experiencing and and they're defining themselves by these diagnosis and we don't want kids ever to diagnose themselves by something that they feel like is wrong.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want them to diagnose them so I'm sorry, define themselves by their strengths and their capabilities.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you talk in this book about how our kids are increasingly less prepared for life as we're as we're in 2026 at the time this release is like they are less prepared.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so tell us a little bit about that.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that look like?
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what do we attribute that to?
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, since it's interesting as we've watched a lot of trends over the course of doing this work for three decades, you know, if I think back to the front side of my work, I don't ever remember encountering as many kids who were as resistant to joining a sports team or being a part of a club and if we fast forward that into adolescence, I certainly don't have any recollection of.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: adolescent boys in my early years of doing this work, who are resistant to getting their driver's license.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hear that story every week now.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And boys who don't want to ask a girl to a homecoming dance or attend a prom and the national statistics around how few I'm talking about boys specifically, young men are now applying for college.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not to say college is the end.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be all past for every boy.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But to say,
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: all the different ways that I'm seeing evidence of boys avoiding risk from the front side of development to the back side of development that I think translates to all the different ways they don't feel capable in launching out into the world and young adult adulthood.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, Sissy and I talk in the first chapter of this book about how
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: often every correction is an over-correction.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the most intuitive move, you know?
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so many of us grew up with maybe parents who didn't do a lot of listening.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kids were seen but not hard.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the over-correction of that is maybe sometimes we're listening too long.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now we believe listening is good.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are the first to champion a tuneman and connection and parents really hearing their kids.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's but one category, one example of where I think we're swinging too far in an effort to compensate for what we didn't get in ways that aren't helping the kids we love develop resourcefulness, resilience, and to our work capability.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that as we're trying to be empathetic to our kids that are growing up in a generation that's so much different than when we grew up with all of the hardship.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I even think about you mentioned this in the book, like even my son
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and the whole prom puzzle and me thought, I mean, I felt stressed out.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, sure we're gonna have the right gift.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: We do we get a helicopter like are we like, you know, we're trying to be empathetic, but at the same time, are we also, are we also making an capable one?
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Are we talking down some of this and letting some of this go and
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the favorite things that I read this morning that you guys wrote in there is that you talk about capable parents, which is what I want us to write down a little bit.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: You wrote this capable parents' value resilience over relief or rescue, capable parents' value sturdiness over success, capable parents' value health over happiness, capable parents' value capability over confidence, capable parents' value faith over fear.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what I read that I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think, okay, a hundred percent said the Janovson that camp and then I think about how much time I spent on hard skills with my kids that can go on a college resume versus the soft skills that are not going to get you called to the front of the cafeteria for the award that are not going on the college resume, but they will help you make it in life not only just to be a great
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: successful individual, but to be God honoring, to do the things we're called to do, you need these so-to-speak soft skills.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So talk to us a little bit about this as parents.
• 15:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like how, how do we kind of switch it's switching the gear from what culture's telling us matters most?
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, that we open the book with the story of a girl in my office who said
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember what I even asked or said to her, but her response was, I don't want to grow.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to be understood.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that to me feels like 20, 26 in a nutshell with kids.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so as we're thinking about the skills we want to learn.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as you said, we have skills and strategies and streets in the book.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we also, by the way, one of my favorite parts of the book is we have a hundred.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: capable building exercises.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you're thinking about what's the next step, we have a hundred of them for you in the book.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of involving hard skills, silly skills, challenges that require character.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so many different things.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we talk in the book about the power of purpose and moving outward.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the things we talk about.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a soft skill.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when kids don't feel
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: capable, they're not going to have any sense of moving outward, moving towards purpose, and we believe that can be life-changing for kids in terms of who they believe that they are and what they have to offer the world.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so as much as we can, I think even when you're talking about helping kids develop,
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: hard skills.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is when I hear you say that I think about a parent leaning over almost a child of I've got to point out the things you need to do and I've got to direct you towards them and we really want parents to lean back.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: and to still offer a lot of empathy, offer a lot of support, but more from the perspective of you can do this.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even thinking about launching kids, like, what do you want to learn to do?
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you feel like is necessary?
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how can I help you do that?
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than this posture that I think we do have in 2026 of
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Either I'm going to do it for you or let me tell you what you need to do and exactly how to do it.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But how can we lean back and remind them how capable and resilient they really are?
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And is it because as parents, I mean, do we have this underlining fear, this underlying fear that we're going to screw them up?
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, I don't because I'm just acting like a maniac, because my kids are facing us over here.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, by and large normal parents that are trying, is that it that we're scared we're going to screw them up, but that any misstep is going to be like straight to counseling, like perhaps that's the end of the world.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, is that why we're so,
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: as parents, um, fearful of really doing things differently than maybe we're watching everyone else do it?
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely, think that's true Cynthia.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think in terms of the correction to over-correction, you know, we could argue that parents of one generation would have benefited from having more information.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We actually would probably benefit from having less.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have so much information that I think,
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It overwhelms us as parents to the point of to your great question.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We fear any misstep will be catastrophic in some way.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know that I could somehow detour their entire life with one step as opposed to it may simply be a misstep.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be opportunity for growth.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talk a lot about that in the book.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: We grow more from
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: getting it wrong, the getting it right.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's so much opportunity for good stuff if we're not working overtime to try to stand in the way of the opportunity for struggle.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had a mom call it paralysis by analysis.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's exactly right.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in two all that information and all the people we're following on our phones that are telling us exactly how to do it, we really believe it's
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: making parents question their own good yes that it's this sense of I've got to trust the experts I've got to trust someone else more than I trust myself and that's one of the things we're saying to parents more and more and more in our offices is trust your good God gave you this child for a reason he knew you were the parent they needed more than the phone more than the expert trust your gut and what you feel like is right in this moment yeah yeah
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I saw it with our oldest daughter when she was getting ready to go to college.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: She had several choices and we're very thankful for that.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: But she literally could not make the decision.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, she was listening to everything I said and Mike said, but really girl mom's situation where she just, I mean, she wanted me to make the decision.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't say that, but I mean, if I literally were a sweatshirt that had another school she'd be like, oh, I knew you wanted me to go to that when I'm like, oh my God.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to need to, and so I remember my husband sat down with her, and he did like a little power point on how one makes a decision in general, like not a college decision.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, here's how we start, and he went through this with her, and I thought, well, this is sad, we're at this point in life, and the kid literally doesn't know how, and it's not even just a college thing.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: She really, at any time, there was a big decision to be made, big in her mind, right?
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, she needed me to weigh in on it.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember thinking, like, this isn't going to fare well for you in the long run.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's anxiety and other things behind that that we've worked on.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I feel that empathy for the parent that's like, I'm going to screw this up.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't give them what they need.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't give them the tools.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel it for the parent who's like, man, I went after all the hard skills.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted them to have the right GPA to play the viola and speak French, and be the captain of the team.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we went after that and they can't make a dingue decision.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I hear you, and I feel you.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: But,
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's ever too late.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love for you to speak about it.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think even as I have college kids and going young adults, I mean, we're still, I mean, just one of my cameo from college for the first time recently, it was kind of being a jerk if we're honest, and I was like, listen, your character counts more than anything else in this house, and it stinks right now.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I love you, and I know God made you, but like, we're gonna figure this out before you leave this house, and like, still trying to feed into it.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I just want to encourage people,
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we're going to get it wrong, but then we're also have opportunities to course correct and focus on what matters.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's kind of a long way in saying, could you talk just a little bit about the things that probably are not on the forefront of our mind that we could really focus on, like, you talk about humility, gratitude, those kind of things.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just give us a little bit of insight on that.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how maybe today we can start focusing on some of those things.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I say something first, then, to see you jump in with some specifics?
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Cynthia, what I love about the way you ask that question is the importance of not losing side of the timeline.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I talk so often about how developmental theorists collectively agree, I'll talk about it for boys, that adolescents for male and somewhere between 23 and 25.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We act like 18 is the finish line for boy.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's nowhere near the finish line, you know, most.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: would agree.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It ends for girls around 19 to 20.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a significant difference.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we don't need to set the finish line at 18 19 or 20 for the boys we love.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to be reminded that there will be so much growth happening between 20 and 25.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll still be doing a lot of parenting, you know, offering support, offering input, helping brain storm decisions.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I love the way you ask that question that is the acknowledgement of, I think even just that reminder takes some of the pressure off of her membrane.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of opportunity for growth in development.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think most of us as adults would say, I didn't insane amount of growing in my 20s.
• 22:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I figured a lot of things out about life and that stretch of development.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: At first say, let's hold on to the timeline.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sissy, talk more about the specifics.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I love what y'all are talking about, too, because I think we're still growing alongside the kids we love.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Timeline, I mean, we're still on the timeline ourselves.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And to that point, we do have these strengths, skills, and strategies in the book that we feel like are important, more important than ever, one of the strengths that we're seeing lacking in kids more than we've ever seen
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in lieu of other healthy coping strategies, we're seeing kids lean more towards control than any other.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so for example, we have group counseling at Daystar and the kids together get to the side where they're going to go to dinner as a part of group.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we have boys regularly melting down screaming and crying over not getting to go to their chosen restaurant.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: feeling out of control.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, to your timeline point, we were just talking about that literally this morning on another interview.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the interviewer, who's an adult, and a mother said, I'm so convicted because I've used control as a coping strategy, my entire life.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is exactly right.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think none of us are great at flexibility, but in this generation of kids that are dealing with anxiety, they have so lot down on control that I think
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: a primary issue in emotional dysregulation, but also a primary issue in their lack of moving towards capability.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if I can't do it right, I'm not even going to cry.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you are changing my schedule or changing anything that I'm expecting, I'm going to scream and cry and melt down.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so practicing flexibility with kids, even maybe incentivizing flexibility, but in silly ways,
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing you can do today is go home and when you go to sit down for dinner.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: shift one seat to the left and Cynthia, when we say, when he says that out loud, the amount of parents in the room who look stricken.
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's what all anchored to that kind of control.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we know what it's going to do to kids.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we've got to start practicing flexibility, flexibility, offset anxiety.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And really, that's what this book is so much of our work.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So much of our work is reactive and we're trying to help with things on the back end after there's already a problem and our hope is that this book is going to be proactive and we're doing some things to be preventative in terms of mental health for kids.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Their capability, their starting as all of those things that you named earlier.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that you said that about flexibility, because, I mean, again, aren't we all convicted as parents?
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: The older you get, the less flexible, I think, naturally you are, you're more stuck in your ways.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you've hit this, but I want to, in a lot of different ways, but this was a section of the book that I thought was so good.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: You just talked about a parents role in modeling capability.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just give us a little thumbnail on that.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of first say this, the working definition we talk a lot about in the book that I think is true for kids and for parents is that capable kids have practice coping and learned competence for life's challenges.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if we were to focus in first on the practice coping, that is that reminder of what we have been told all throughout Scripture Romans 5, Romans 8, John 10, like
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to struggle this side of heaven.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I love Dr. Susan David said discomfort is the price of admission to a meaningful life.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's we're going to counter it at every corner.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so how can I practice coping for when I come up against the discomfort, which doesn't mean something's wrong.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It actually means I'm human and I'm living this side of heaven.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: and develop confidence as a result of practicing the coping of that's driving these skills in in different ways so that I feel prepared for whatever the challenge is whether it is backing up that timeline we talked about feeling overwhelmed about first day of practice at a brand new sport that I have never done before or it is.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: asking someone to the homecoming dancer prom for the first time, taking my driver's test, applying to college, all the different challenges I'm going to face throughout life that I have practiced moving through the discomfort so that I have the skills in place.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think to your great question, we talk so often with parents about how kids are primarily experiential learners and the best learning is going to happen and going through the motions.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Them having the experience secondarily through us narrating our experience and we come home as
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had to give a presentation to the Board of Directors today and I didn't feel prepared.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you what I did that helped right before I stepped into the room?
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So knowing that that narrating is landing on the kids we love, that is our opportunity to talk about where we practice coping and we develop confidence and we face challenges.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Before we wrap up though, there's one thing, there's one little phrase that I loved loved and you talk out shaking off the desk.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, man, that's something, again,
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you are going to raise kids, they're going to do hard things, do things that are hard, maybe to them that maybe we don't think are hard and we're going to challenge them, we're going to let them fall all the things and they need to learn to shake off the dust.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just give us a little word on that because I think that's one of the harder things.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to fix it.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to somehow insulate them.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say all the things like, ah, it was better than you think or whatever.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe somebody just seemed to be like, that's stuck.
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, and let's how do we shake off the dust?
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So give us a word on that before we go.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it comes from our friend Melissa, who is the founder of Daystar, and does all the Bible teaching for us at our little summer a treat program called Hope Town.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: She taught on this one year, and I had never paid that close of attention to when Jesus is sending out the disciples.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: He basically is saying in the gospels, that you're going to be places where you won't be well received.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: When that happens, shake the dust off your feet and keep going.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're seeing less kids again than ever before,
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: experience hurt experienced disappointment that a friend doesn't want to play with them on the playground that they're not invited that they're watching the snap maps and everybody's together and they are not and that on a one to 10 scale what would feel like a two three or four feels like a 59.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so helping kids learn to literally shake it off and put things in perspective is so important to have another amazing mom that I worked with that she had a little girl who felt things very deeply.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she talked to her about a duck.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she said, you know, ducks have this outer layer of feathers that help them when water comes that it doesn't get to their bodies.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they can shake it off easier.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so she said, I have started reminding my daughter, shake it off like a duck.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Be a duck.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: That became kind of a code word for them.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we've got to remind kids of that truth.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got to do it ourselves.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And and the chapter is scaling, sizing and shaking off the dust that you're talking about and that's what we want to take them back to that idea because again it doesn't become a part of their identity it's something that happened to them it's a challenge they face that they can grow through and learn from.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's good.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to end with this quote from the book.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: God is with you, and it's given you everything you need to raise this child.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Trust your instincts and him.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go in the strength that you have that he has given you.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: The strength is just enough for this glorious task of raising capable kids.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, the book is called capable.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: How to teach your kids to
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: is out, everybody grab a copy.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you guys, thanks for being here with me again.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's delightful to be with you, Arles.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, idea how much we enjoy your company.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's always super fun.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: OK, everybody grab the book and we'll link it all in podcast notes.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, friend.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, seriously.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Aren't they the best?
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love them so much.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I will tell you this about David and Sissy, I've been with him in real life.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've interviewed them a lot.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: They are the same people on the mic, off the mic, they're just incredible.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, support them, grab their book capable, how to teach your kids, the string skills and strategies to build resilience, and then one other thing, leave a review for this podcast.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoyed this today, I would love for you to leave a review, even share it with a friend.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that this encouraged me and I bet it would encourage people you know as well.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So guys, thanks for being a part of the mesmerized family, you're the very best.