Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / OneLegUpAlex News Welcomes Fmr. VP Gore Speechwriter Lawrence Haas to Talk White House Summit on Ukraine 8-22-25

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OneLegUpAlex News Welcomes Fmr. VP Gore Speechwriter Lawrence Haas to Talk White House Summit on Ukraine 8-22-25 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:02
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Alex Garrett.
0:06
Speaker 2: All right, well here on one leg of Alex. It
0:09
Speaker 2: is a little bit of a news update, because look,
0:12
Speaker 2: you could make a big deal about the Epstein files dump.
0:15
Speaker 2: I certainly am going to look into this and report
0:17
Speaker 2: back to you on it. If you want your own
0:20
Speaker 2: thoughts and opinions, go for it. As a DJ has
0:25
Speaker 2: released transcripts between the DJ and just Lain Maxwell, so
0:32
Speaker 2: I encourage you to check that out. It is our
0:34
Speaker 2: tax sellars put at work with this release, and I'm
0:38
Speaker 2: not so tired about it today because there are a
0:41
Speaker 2: couple other things I want to talk about. Before I
0:44
Speaker 2: had my guest, Larry has who is a speechwriter for
0:47
Speaker 2: VP al Gore back in the nineties, back in the
0:51
Speaker 2: Clinton era in the White House actually, and we get
0:56
Speaker 2: into what happened this week at the summit with the
0:59
Speaker 2: Zelenski and the European leaders. But before that, did you know,
1:04
Speaker 2: speaking of tax dollars being put to use, the US
1:08
Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security has canceled forty nine federal grants
1:14
Speaker 2: worth millions of dollars for non profit organizations, and the
1:18
Speaker 2: action followed report by the Mill's Forum saying twenty five
1:22
Speaker 2: million dollars in grants were issued between twenty thirteen and
1:27
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. So this really was both parties here, right,
1:33
Speaker 2: So twenty thirteen to twenty sixteen was Obama, then sixteen
1:37
Speaker 2: to twenty was Trump, twenty to twenty four was Biden. Well,
1:45
Speaker 2: Middle East Forum saying twenty five million dollars in grants
1:49
Speaker 2: were issued in that time period to radical organizations alleged
1:53
Speaker 2: links to terrorism. This cancelation was a response to a
1:59
Speaker 2: study that claim DHS funding was being given to groups
2:04
Speaker 2: with extremist affiliations. I don't care if you want to
2:07
Speaker 2: put this on Obama, Biden or Trump won. This was
2:10
Speaker 2: a bipartisan thing here where we were funding those that
2:16
Speaker 2: had radical ties to terrorism. So we should be applauding
2:21
Speaker 2: the fact that forty nine contracts have been canceled to
2:27
Speaker 2: save US money firstly, but also to stop benefiting terrorist organizations.
2:34
Speaker 2: The United Nations and other international bodies have adopted numerous
2:37
Speaker 2: conventions to combat terrorism. This is a big deal. It's
2:44
Speaker 2: a big deal that the Middle East Forum is saying
2:47
Speaker 2: terror link groups had been given this funding and now
2:51
Speaker 2: were denied funding because we as Americans should not want
2:58
Speaker 2: to be funding terror period and all we as Americans
3:09
Speaker 2: should not want to be funding organizations who have ties
3:14
Speaker 2: to terrorist groups. So I'm glad that forty nine contracts
3:18
Speaker 2: have been revoked because it saves us money and it
3:23
Speaker 2: saves us possible funding of terrorism. And I only see
3:28
Speaker 2: Fox News report on this. I wish other news outlets
3:33
Speaker 2: would as well, because this is a big deal. While
3:36
Speaker 2: I don't like all other all grants being cut in general,
3:40
Speaker 2: when they focus in and cut the grants that need
3:42
Speaker 2: to be cut, we should be applauding that. We should
3:45
Speaker 2: be supporting that here on the One Leg Up Network,
3:48
Speaker 2: and I certainly as heck M Now one other thing
3:51
Speaker 2: I want to get to. So we mentioned that Fernando
3:55
Speaker 2: import Washington was on a visa overstay, but it turns
4:00
Speaker 2: out there's been a massive review of fifty nine million
4:05
Speaker 2: US visas targeting violations like overstays, criminal activity, and fraud
4:11
Speaker 2: for potential deportations, announced yesterday. This historic crackdown has already
4:17
Speaker 2: resulted in six thousand student visa revocations, six thousand, amid
4:22
Speaker 2: debates over enforcement fairness and its impact on immigrants, with
4:26
Speaker 2: supporters praising it as essentral for national security. Look if
4:32
Speaker 2: they can accurately pinpoint those that are overstaying to do
4:37
Speaker 2: criminal activity, then yes, we should rightfully strip them of
4:41
Speaker 2: their visas. I don't mind this site, this oversight of
4:46
Speaker 2: the visa program. I've always thought that overstays have been
4:50
Speaker 2: in the in too many numbers. But what I pray
4:56
Speaker 2: for is that once these reviews are done, the good folk,
5:00
Speaker 2: the good immigrants that are here not causing chaos but
5:04
Speaker 2: simply trying to make a living like Fernando and being
5:07
Speaker 2: part of the community like Fernando, are simply left back
5:10
Speaker 2: into their realms. Until then, I do support a thorough
5:16
Speaker 2: review as long as those who are doing right by
5:18
Speaker 2: the country and paying their taxes are allowed to be
5:22
Speaker 2: back on the streets of America and the communities of America.
5:27
Speaker 2: And that's where I staying on that all right right now.
5:29
Speaker 2: Larry Hass, the former speechwriter for VP Gore, joins me
5:33
Speaker 2: on the One Leg Up Network to recap that big
5:36
Speaker 2: summit and so much more. DC has been a buzz
5:39
Speaker 2: this week with the White House Summit. I covered all
5:41
Speaker 2: the different you know, the pre show, the pre meeting show,
5:44
Speaker 2: and then the meeting itself, and then some postgame thoughts
5:47
Speaker 2: if you will. Postgame will get made. But I have
5:50
Speaker 2: Lawrence has On, who was the speechwriter for VP al
5:53
Speaker 2: Gore and who's been to Ukraine, and we were talking privately,
5:57
Speaker 2: but on my saying, and you are not impressive I
6:00
Speaker 2: was with the summit. Tell us why.
6:03
Speaker 1: Well, because I think the whole premise of the summit
6:06
Speaker 1: was one sided on the side of Vladimir Putin for
6:10
Speaker 1: reasons that escape me. I mean, Putin has really been
6:14
Speaker 1: sort of dictating the terms of the discussions that are
6:19
Speaker 1: going on now.
6:20
Speaker 2: He's made here was Zelenski there? You felt he dictated
6:23
Speaker 2: about meeting on Monday as well?
6:25
Speaker 1: Oh, I absolutely did in the background because keep in mind,
6:30
Speaker 1: Trump was very much influenced by what Putin was demanding.
6:34
Speaker 1: And he's demanding territory at the very least, and he
6:38
Speaker 1: wants not only territory that Russia currently controls in the
6:41
Speaker 1: East of Ukraine, but he wants the entirety of the East.
6:46
Speaker 1: So he's asking actually Ukraine to give up land more
6:51
Speaker 1: than Russia is currently occupying. I don't think he should
6:55
Speaker 1: be giving up any land just as a matter of principle,
6:57
Speaker 1: but the demand is outrageous. But what happened was Trump
7:04
Speaker 1: was in essence shaped by that demand, and there was
7:11
Speaker 1: discussion about what would it take was Zelenski to come along. Now,
7:17
Speaker 1: as it turns out, it doesn't look like Putin's terribly
7:20
Speaker 1: interested in peace anyway, hasn't agreed to a meeting with Zelenski.
7:24
Speaker 1: So I don't really know where all of this is going.
7:27
Speaker 1: But I think it was really misguided from the start.
7:32
Speaker 2: That's very interesting, and I mean, look here, here's why
7:34
Speaker 2: I was excited about the summit, because it felt like,
7:36
Speaker 2: for the first time, Zelenski and Trump weren't going at
7:39
Speaker 2: each other's throats, and neither was NATO going at Trump's start.
7:42
Speaker 2: I mean, the fact we saw unity was was a
7:44
Speaker 2: big step forward. But did you see it that way
7:47
Speaker 2: at all?
7:49
Speaker 1: No question that the atmosphere was much better, no question
7:52
Speaker 1: about it. Trump and Zolensky seemed to get along in
7:55
Speaker 1: a way that obviously they did not in February when
7:58
Speaker 1: you had that public blow up. Trump, from everything that
8:03
Speaker 1: I could see, was gracious, not only to Zelenski, but
8:07
Speaker 1: as you say, the European leaders who came to see him,
8:10
Speaker 1: and the European leaders were some heavy hitters. I mean,
8:12
Speaker 1: it was the head of the European Union, and it
8:15
Speaker 1: was the leaders of Britain, France, Germany and Italy.
8:21
Speaker 2: Most vocal critics, Macrone. I mean the fact that he
8:24
Speaker 2: was there was a big deal.
8:25
Speaker 1: To me, absolutely right. So yes, I thought that was
8:28
Speaker 1: a positive. And I thought that Trump did a pretty
8:31
Speaker 1: good job in terms of representing the United States and
8:34
Speaker 1: being gracious and understanding that these were allies. So all
8:38
Speaker 1: of that was good, and I take your point, But
8:41
Speaker 1: when it comes down to the specifics of stopping this
8:44
Speaker 1: war on terms that I think would serve Ukraine and
8:48
Speaker 1: would serve the West, which I think ought to be
8:51
Speaker 1: the goal. After all, it was Russia that invaded Ukraine
8:55
Speaker 1: did not do anything other than be victimized. When you
8:59
Speaker 1: get into the substance of the discussion, I still do
9:02
Speaker 1: believe that it was one sided based on the demands
9:06
Speaker 1: that Vladimir Putin had previously made in terms of stopping
9:12
Speaker 1: this war.
9:13
Speaker 2: Now I know he did some aerial assaults nearby NATO
9:16
Speaker 2: territory earlier today or earlier this week, which is just
9:19
Speaker 2: pretty pretty damning. But I gotta ask, So there is
9:22
Speaker 2: this picture of you know, President Clinton, President but they're
9:27
Speaker 2: all shaking hands with Putin. But how is it that
9:30
Speaker 2: Clinton was able to keep him at bay. Yet it
9:33
Speaker 2: seems like presidents after him did not do as good
9:35
Speaker 2: a job, like what did Clinton Gore do?
9:37
Speaker 1: Differently, I must say, I don't know if really that
9:44
Speaker 1: was determined more by, you know, the brilliance of President Clinton,
9:49
Speaker 1: even though I did serve him and I do admire him,
9:52
Speaker 1: as it was the increasingly entrenched position of Vladimir Putin
9:58
Speaker 1: over the years of different presidencies, starting with, as you said,
10:04
Speaker 1: George W. Bush and going through Obama. I mean, keep
10:08
Speaker 1: in mind, Putin has become more of a strong man
10:12
Speaker 1: over the course of years. He's become more emboldened at home,
10:18
Speaker 1: and I think because of that, he has felt more
10:20
Speaker 1: emboldened to try to, in essence, in his mind, resurrect
10:27
Speaker 1: as much of the previous Soviet Empire as he previously
10:33
Speaker 1: as the Soviet Union previously existed. I mean, keep in mind,
10:36
Speaker 1: he did say I believe this was back in the
10:39
Speaker 1: around two thousand and seven, that the breakup of the
10:42
Speaker 1: Soviet Union was the greatest political geopolitical catastrophe of the
10:47
Speaker 1: last quarter century of the twentieth century. Whatever it is
10:51
Speaker 1: he said, So he really does believe that it is
10:54
Speaker 1: his mission to expand Greater Russia, and he's become more
10:59
Speaker 1: in bold and over the course of time. I don't
11:03
Speaker 1: think American presidents have dealt with him well. I don't
11:06
Speaker 1: think Obama in particular responded in any way to other
11:13
Speaker 1: than to appease him after he went in and seized Crimea.
11:16
Speaker 2: Which set the stage I believe, right, I mean, yes, it.
11:19
Speaker 1: Was, and it set the stage for what we saw
11:23
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. I mean, after all, Putin saw
11:26
Speaker 1: that he got away with taking Crimea. I don't think
11:30
Speaker 1: he believed that the United States was going to do
11:32
Speaker 1: anything if he invaded Ukraine wholeheartedly. He was surprised that Biden,
11:39
Speaker 1: you know, in essence spearheaded the you know, the unity
11:44
Speaker 1: of the West and the support that Ukraine has gotten.
11:49
Speaker 1: I think it surprised him.
11:50
Speaker 2: However, when you say a small incursion like Biden did
11:55
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two that I'll never forget that moment,
12:00
Speaker 2: and I played it on this podcast. Would you have
12:02
Speaker 2: advised him to say that as a speech writer or
12:04
Speaker 2: would you have advised him to say, let's not talk
12:06
Speaker 2: about that. And then, because it almost like seemed like
12:08
Speaker 2: he was accepting of this incursion, nothing, he would lead
12:11
Speaker 2: to a war. That's where I think the first mistake
12:13
Speaker 2: was me.
12:14
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the first mistake was that he didn't
12:19
Speaker 1: read in essence the sentiment in Ukraine, whether in Zolensky's
12:25
Speaker 1: office or at the grassroots level. You know, keep in mind,
12:30
Speaker 1: I mean he said to Zelenski, you know, how can
12:33
Speaker 1: we usher you out of the country, And Zolensky said,
12:36
Speaker 1: I don't need an airplane, I need weapons. So in essence,
12:42
Speaker 1: I don't think Biden understood the resolve that the Ukrainian people,
12:46
Speaker 1: at the leadership and people were going to show. But
12:51
Speaker 1: once he understood the situation, once he saw that Ukraine
12:56
Speaker 1: really wanted to fight, I think he did a pretty
12:59
Speaker 1: good job. I if I were in that position, I
13:02
Speaker 1: would have been quicker. I would have been more aggressive.
13:05
Speaker 1: Would I would have been.
13:06
Speaker 2: Stop about the incursion. That's where I would have stopped them.
13:09
Speaker 1: But yeah, right right, it was an invasion, it was
13:12
Speaker 1: an attempted conquest. Uh uh and uh. And I think
13:17
Speaker 1: under Biden, the United States just gave the weapons to
13:20
Speaker 1: Ukraine a little bit too gradually. I think Ukraine would
13:24
Speaker 1: have been far more effective in its counterattack if we
13:28
Speaker 1: had given weaponry that we eventually gave six months later,
13:33
Speaker 1: a year later, two years later.
13:35
Speaker 2: And then those of Congression approval. I guess they were
13:37
Speaker 2: slow rolling it almost in spite of Zelenski for a
13:41
Speaker 2: while there.
13:42
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right. So while I think Biden gets fairly
13:47
Speaker 1: high marks marks for you know, corralling the West and
13:50
Speaker 1: creating unity and supporting Ukraine, I just think it was
13:54
Speaker 1: done too slowly, and you know, in some ways Europe
13:57
Speaker 1: pushed them, uh to move faster than he was moving.
14:01
Speaker 1: So the West I think has performed fairly well. I'm
14:07
Speaker 1: concerned about where we may be going now if Trump
14:10
Speaker 1: starts really pressuring Zelensky to give up territory. But he
14:15
Speaker 1: hasn't done it yet. So so far we're in a
14:17
Speaker 1: good place. And the obstacle to peace is Vladimir Putin,
14:21
Speaker 1: There's no question about it.
14:23
Speaker 2: But I agree with you. I think Trump has to
14:24
Speaker 2: say that he's really saying Zelenski's in the way of this,
14:27
Speaker 2: which I don't really understand. And he made that stupid
14:31
Speaker 2: joke about upending the election if there's a war in
14:33
Speaker 2: three and a half years, why would you even say that, Lawrence,
14:36
Speaker 2: I think that was a dub mart.
14:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, sometimes when people say things in jest,
14:42
Speaker 1: they it reveals their innermost secrets. But be that as
14:49
Speaker 1: it may, I'll take it as a joke at this point.
14:53
Speaker 2: All right, Lawrence, I gotta ask you this, because I
14:55
Speaker 2: do feel like NATO's become stronger, especially with Trump, and
14:58
Speaker 2: obviouslyy've been a little more tougher. I didn't think that
15:01
Speaker 2: was the case during the Clinton years. That's because Clinton
15:03
Speaker 2: administration had a great rapport with NATO compared to NATA.
15:07
Speaker 2: Is that what we're.
15:07
Speaker 1: Seeing, Well, no question. You know, NATO did not have
15:11
Speaker 1: to necessarily step up because it knew that Clinton had
15:16
Speaker 1: its its, you know, backing, so there really wasn't any issue.
15:22
Speaker 1: It's also the case that you know, NATO had an
15:24
Speaker 1: opportunity to show unity led by the United States, and
15:29
Speaker 1: it did so in the Balkans in nineteen ninety five
15:32
Speaker 1: and in nineteen ninety eight. And I would say thirdly,
15:37
Speaker 1: Russia was less of a threat back then, so there
15:40
Speaker 1: was less for NATO to be concerned about. You know,
15:45
Speaker 1: it's a whole different ballgame now you've got the combination
15:49
Speaker 1: of much more Russian aggression and concerns about Trump's feelings
15:55
Speaker 1: about both NATO and about Putin. I mean, unfortunately, President
16:01
Speaker 1: Clinton seems to excuse me, President Trump seems to have
16:06
Speaker 1: an affinity for strong men. He seems to admire them
16:11
Speaker 1: rather than see the danger in them. It's not just Putin,
16:15
Speaker 1: it's Urdigon in Turkey, It's the way net Yahoo's acting
16:20
Speaker 1: in Israel. It's it's it's this kind of authoritarian impulse
16:26
Speaker 1: that makes Trump admire Putin much more than he should
16:31
Speaker 1: and oppose him much less than he should.
16:35
Speaker 2: Oh my god, when he called him the boss, I
16:37
Speaker 2: don't care the context, it was kind of it was
16:39
Speaker 2: kind of a telling thing how he looked at Putin,
16:41
Speaker 2: which was which was bothers And people have said to me,
16:44
Speaker 2: why why are you pointing this out? I said, because
16:46
Speaker 2: I had to be pointing out the way you talked
16:47
Speaker 2: about him at the summit was a low bothers him.
16:49
Speaker 2: What I have to say, Yes, but Lawrence, I have
16:52
Speaker 2: to say, compared to that era in the nineties, I
16:56
Speaker 2: don't know if NATA was totally concerned, but you're the
16:58
Speaker 2: biggest negotiation you guys did actually was the Ireland. I mean,
17:01
Speaker 2: I've read that book about how Ireland became United under Clinton.
17:05
Speaker 2: What can the negotiating taxans from that, tactics from that,
17:09
Speaker 2: you know, applied to here. I feel like there was
17:11
Speaker 2: some negotiation you guys did there to get that done.
17:14
Speaker 1: Well, certainly it was very tricky. I mean, keep in mind,
17:17
Speaker 1: we had to figure out what to do with the
17:20
Speaker 1: Irish Republican Army, which was a terrorist organization for most
17:25
Speaker 1: of its existence, and you know, was had you know,
17:29
Speaker 1: Britain as its target. I was a very dicey situation.
17:35
Speaker 1: Eventually Clinton came around and allowed Jerry Adams to visit
17:40
Speaker 1: the United States. Eventually there were meetings you know, Ted
17:46
Speaker 1: Kennedy when all of them.
17:47
Speaker 2: Were you in any of them or No, I.
17:49
Speaker 1: Was not involved in foreign policy back then. I was
17:54
Speaker 1: in the White House. Obviously I was quite aware of
17:56
Speaker 1: what was going on, But no, I was not in
17:58
Speaker 1: the meetings. But I know it was very important to
18:01
Speaker 1: President Clinton. He spent a lot of time on this,
18:04
Speaker 1: and his people spent a lot of time on this
18:06
Speaker 1: National security staff, working with the Hill, working with you know,
18:11
Speaker 1: our ambassador in Ireland, who happened to be Ted Kennedy's sister.
18:17
Speaker 1: So you know, there were a lot of there were
18:20
Speaker 1: a lot of moving pieces. I thought Clinton handled it
18:23
Speaker 1: extremely effectively. I mean, keep in mind the troubles, as
18:27
Speaker 1: they used to call him, which was the war in
18:30
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland. I mean they went back to the late
18:33
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, you know, so you can think of thirty
18:37
Speaker 1: years until we finally got the Good Friday Agreement of
18:41
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. I mean, it was really quite an
18:45
Speaker 1: accomplishment on Clinton's part, and I think he considers it
18:48
Speaker 1: one of his greatest accomplishments.
18:50
Speaker 2: All right. In that situation, George Mitchell really stepped up
18:53
Speaker 2: at the time, and he was part of all this.
18:55
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a peril here where a Rubio
18:59
Speaker 2: could step up and that in this situation, I feel
19:01
Speaker 2: like Rubio is gonna have to play a role here
19:03
Speaker 2: is He's not really talking as much about it, but
19:05
Speaker 2: he's probably in the background somewhat.
19:07
Speaker 1: Right Well, Rubio has been very busy with lots of
19:12
Speaker 1: different stuff. He's not only the Secretary of State these days,
19:16
Speaker 1: but he's also the National Security Advisor. We have not
19:19
Speaker 1: had a situation like that since Henry Kissinger. So, and
19:23
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily recommend it. I mean, these are two
19:27
Speaker 1: huge jobs. Sure, if it got down to a serious negotiation,
19:33
Speaker 1: Rubio would be at the table, he'd be advising Trump,
19:36
Speaker 1: He'd be you know, working with his counterparts, whether in
19:39
Speaker 1: Ukraine or in Russia or in NATO and all the rest.
19:44
Speaker 1: But you know, at the end of the day, I
19:45
Speaker 1: must say, the Secretary of State is and has to
19:51
Speaker 1: be a tool of the president. He can't have an
19:55
Speaker 1: independent agenda. He can advise, he can advise aggressively, but
20:00
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the president runs foreign policy.
20:02
Speaker 1: So this is going to wind up in the Oval
20:05
Speaker 1: Office and Trump is going to have to figure out
20:07
Speaker 1: what his bottom line is. Hopefully Rubio will push him
20:13
Speaker 1: to be more supportive of Ukraine than he has been
20:16
Speaker 1: so far. But we'll have to see. We'll have to see.
20:20
Speaker 2: All right, all the leaders thanking Trump was passing by
20:23
Speaker 2: the way, just to make that note. It was amazing
20:24
Speaker 2: all them like to thank him after all this. But
20:27
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you this, because you've been to Ukraine.
20:30
Speaker 2: What was since we last talked? Have you been back?
20:32
Speaker 1: I have not been back, but I do you know,
20:35
Speaker 1: watch it pretty closely. There is fatigue in Ukraine over
20:40
Speaker 1: this war, no question about it.
20:42
Speaker 2: Well, there have been protests about against Zelenski. I've noticed
20:45
Speaker 2: the streets being filmed. There were protesters very well.
20:47
Speaker 1: Well, there are a lot of different issues. It's not
20:51
Speaker 1: just the war. I mean, there is this corruption in
20:54
Speaker 1: the government which started way before Zelenski. He's done a
21:00
Speaker 1: a decent job in trying to root some of it out,
21:03
Speaker 1: but he hasn't, you know, rooted it all out. So
21:06
Speaker 1: that's something going on. He also hasn't allowed any elections,
21:11
Speaker 1: and you know that's that's not something that is necessary
21:17
Speaker 1: in a democracy. I mean, after all, you know, we
21:20
Speaker 1: were at war. In nineteen forty four, we had our
21:24
Speaker 1: presidential election. The incumbent, who had been there for twelve years,
21:29
Speaker 1: Franklin Roosevelt, had to run for reelection. He wound up
21:34
Speaker 1: winning with fifty seven percent of the vote. It was
21:37
Speaker 1: his low it was actually his slimmest margin of his
21:40
Speaker 1: four elections. But he stood for office. There's no reason
21:44
Speaker 1: why Zelenski cannot stand for office. So as much as
21:48
Speaker 1: I admire him as somewhat of a modern day Winston Churchill,
21:53
Speaker 1: I do not support the idea that somehow, because they're
21:56
Speaker 1: at war, you know, democratic you know, no maladies need
22:01
Speaker 1: to be somehow frozen and we can't have an election.
22:05
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of there's concern about Zelenski on
22:08
Speaker 1: a variety of fronts, but there is I think far
22:12
Speaker 1: more unity in this country over one thing, which is
22:18
Speaker 1: they don't want to be ruled by the Russians. They
22:20
Speaker 1: do not want to be ruled by the Russians. Russian
22:24
Speaker 1: control or influence in Ukraine dates back one hundred years
22:32
Speaker 1: to the beginning of the Soviet Union, and the Ukrainians
22:36
Speaker 1: have had enough. They don't accept the fact that they've
22:40
Speaker 1: lost Crimea. They believe that the current war started in
22:44
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, not in twenty twenty two with this invasion,
22:51
Speaker 1: that it actually started in twenty fourteen. And I don't
22:54
Speaker 1: see any indication that there is not continuing strong resolve to,
23:00
Speaker 1: you know, oppose this attempt at conquest.
23:04
Speaker 2: Well, it's gonna be very interesting, you went. I mentioned
23:05
Speaker 2: that the Union Nations coming up in a couple of weeks,
23:07
Speaker 2: so we have to see it that I mentioned that
23:09
Speaker 2: for a reason. But I also think I remember in
23:12
Speaker 2: eight before the Olympics began, George W. Bush, I think
23:16
Speaker 2: it was an interviewed by Bob Costas ormever was about
23:20
Speaker 2: the invasion of Georgia, I mean Russia's been at this
23:23
Speaker 2: for a long time, and you think what happened in
23:26
Speaker 2: O eight with Georgia. People would be woken up by them,
23:29
Speaker 2: but just they were caught sleeping a lot of the time,
23:32
Speaker 2: I felt, but bye by all this.
23:34
Speaker 1: You know, democracies are slow to react. I mean, look
23:40
Speaker 1: at what happened in the nineteen thirties when it should
23:43
Speaker 1: have been abundantly clear where Germany and Italy and Japan
23:48
Speaker 1: were headed. It should have been abundantly clear. And yet
23:52
Speaker 1: you know, ther England was very slow to rearm. There
23:58
Speaker 1: was a real sense of in your of hiding your
24:01
Speaker 1: head in the sand and hoping things don't get bad.
24:04
Speaker 1: And frankly, there was a strong sentiment in the United
24:09
Speaker 1: States that, yes, things may be getting a little dicey
24:14
Speaker 1: in Europe, but Hitler is not that bad, Mussolini's not
24:19
Speaker 1: that frightening, and after all, we don't want to be involved,
24:23
Speaker 1: and we have an ocean between us and will be okay.
24:27
Speaker 1: And it was really a great effort on FDR's part
24:31
Speaker 1: in the starting in the late nineteen thirties to try
24:33
Speaker 1: to educate the American people on what was coming. But
24:38
Speaker 1: it was quite a challenge. My greater point is This
24:41
Speaker 1: is nothing new. Democracies are slow to react. Now when
24:46
Speaker 1: they finally react, they tend to be on the winning side,
24:50
Speaker 1: because frankly, democracy is a stronger form of government than
24:53
Speaker 1: authoritarianism at the end of the day. But I'm not
24:57
Speaker 1: surprised that somehow we didn't get the message in two
25:00
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, or we didn't get the message in
25:02
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. I'm not terribly surprised, based on history and
25:07
Speaker 1: based on how democracies tend to act.
25:10
Speaker 2: And I think we want to see the good in
25:12
Speaker 2: all these countries, even the bad ones. I hate to
25:14
Speaker 2: say that, but I just feels like that too. Lawrence.
25:17
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you this. You were writing for Vice
25:20
Speaker 2: President Gore, Yes, did he address NATO? Tell us about
25:23
Speaker 2: the times you wrote for him to address the international community.
25:26
Speaker 1: Well, he was terribly involved with regard to foreign policy
25:31
Speaker 1: on a whole bunch of fronts. The negotiation with North
25:36
Speaker 1: Korea to reign in their nuclear program, US relations with
25:42
Speaker 1: South Africa and other countries. I will tell you the
25:46
Speaker 1: one time when I really was very close to the
25:49
Speaker 1: action on negotiations. Vice President Gore flew to Israel in
25:55
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight to celebrate the fortieth anniversary of the
26:00
Speaker 1: establishment of the state. He was representing the United States.
26:04
Speaker 1: We flew over on Air Force too, and he used
26:08
Speaker 1: that trip as an occasion to try to move along
26:12
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern peace efforts. So we were in not just Israel,
26:17
Speaker 1: but we were in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the
26:24
Speaker 1: West Bank. And he spoke to Arafat, and he spoke to,
26:30
Speaker 1: you know, the heads of the other countries that I mentioned.
26:34
Speaker 1: And while we did not obviously get to Arab Israeli
26:41
Speaker 1: peace or Israeli Palestinian peace, he was heavily involved in
26:46
Speaker 1: those efforts. And when you see it up close, you
26:50
Speaker 1: realize how human of an experience this really is. This
26:55
Speaker 1: really has a lot to do not just with geopolitics,
26:58
Speaker 1: but it has to do with do I trust this
27:01
Speaker 1: person sitting across from me at the you know, across
27:05
Speaker 1: the table. Interestingly enough, the head of the Palestinian side
27:10
Speaker 1: was Yasa Arafat yep. The head of the Israeli side
27:15
Speaker 1: Benjamin Netanyahu. That was his first term as Prime minister.
27:25
Speaker 1: So the more things change, the more they remained the same. Right.
27:29
Speaker 1: That was a long time ago.
27:31
Speaker 2: Well, right, and I tell you I feel old now,
27:33
Speaker 2: because when I was three or four years old, we
27:35
Speaker 2: saw Arafat rolling into the EU N which was kind
27:38
Speaker 2: of a big deal at the time that he was
27:40
Speaker 2: in the States for that, but it had to be complicated.
27:44
Speaker 2: And I'm sure because you were involved with that, you
27:47
Speaker 2: want to see peace. And this is my next question.
27:49
Speaker 2: Then could whatever happen here, if there is a true
27:52
Speaker 2: peace deal, be the blueprint for what happens in Israel
27:55
Speaker 2: and Palestine five point h I feel like we've been
27:57
Speaker 2: through five generations of all this, right, Could this be
27:59
Speaker 2: the blueprint for that piece deal next?
28:02
Speaker 1: I would love to say yes, but I cannot in
28:06
Speaker 1: all honesty say yes. The issues are so different. Here.
28:12
Speaker 1: You have Russia that wants to resurrect greater Russia in
28:18
Speaker 1: the Middle East. You have got Israel on one side,
28:22
Speaker 1: and Iran and the terrorist organizations it it's access of
28:28
Speaker 1: resistance on the other side. And we we saw over
28:33
Speaker 1: the last couple of years the first direct confrontation, a
28:36
Speaker 1: military confrontation between Israel and Iran. And until there is
28:42
Speaker 1: some resolution of that greater conflict, I don't see how
28:48
Speaker 1: we are going to get Israeli Palestinian peace. I mean,
28:53
Speaker 1: we still have Hamas as the ruling entity in Gaza,
28:59
Speaker 1: and everybody said as the following Hamas needs to be disarmed.
29:04
Speaker 1: But do you notice the passive tense Hamas needs to
29:07
Speaker 1: be disarmed? Who is going to if you're not gonna
29:11
Speaker 1: let Israel do it? Who is going to disarm Hamas?
29:15
Speaker 1: And no one is volunteering one else until somebody, until
29:19
Speaker 1: somebody steps up and says, okay, we've had enough. It
29:23
Speaker 1: won't be Israel We're gonna go in. Who's it gonna
29:26
Speaker 1: be the United States, NATO, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. Who's gonna
29:31
Speaker 1: do it? Until we answer that question, I don't see
29:34
Speaker 1: prospects for peace.
29:35
Speaker 2: Now does that mean we all don't want to see
29:38
Speaker 2: the continual bombing of gods? But does that mean you
29:40
Speaker 2: support Netaw's efforts to get Hamas if no one else
29:44
Speaker 2: is gonna help them get them? Or how would you
29:46
Speaker 2: go about getting them if no one else gonna step
29:48
Speaker 2: up here?
29:49
Speaker 1: Okay, So I think we have to make a distinction
29:51
Speaker 1: between what's the end goal and what are the tactics.
29:56
Speaker 1: I do not support the idea of reinvading Gaza. I
30:02
Speaker 1: do think there is a strategy that might be a
30:06
Speaker 1: little bit savvier, which is that you keep the pressure
30:10
Speaker 1: on Hamas Uh, and there are ways of doing that.
30:13
Speaker 1: I mean, no intelligence operation is better than Israeli intelligence.
30:19
Speaker 1: Nobody is better than covert operations than Israel. So I
30:23
Speaker 1: do think there is room for a narrower effort to
30:28
Speaker 1: keep the pressure on Hamas and at the same time
30:32
Speaker 1: relieving the suffering to a great extent of the Palestinian people.
30:38
Speaker 1: So I'm with him on the end goal because I
30:40
Speaker 1: think only Israel can disarm Hamas fully. But I'm troubled
30:46
Speaker 1: by this wholehearted strategy of reinvading Gaza, calling up sixty
30:51
Speaker 1: thousand of reserves and all the rest.
30:55
Speaker 2: By the ways being of reserves. I know that there
30:57
Speaker 2: were Americans that were not identity. We're helping Ukraine, but
31:01
Speaker 2: sort of on the down low, so it wouldn't look
31:03
Speaker 2: like Americans we're helping Ukraine in the efforts. I know
31:07
Speaker 2: Trump doesn't want troops on the ground. We are going
31:09
Speaker 2: to get there though, or no, we're not going to
31:10
Speaker 2: get to that point out.
31:11
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna get the troops on the ground,
31:14
Speaker 1: and I don't think we're gonna get to European troops
31:17
Speaker 1: on the ground hopefully there will be peace and there
31:21
Speaker 1: will be real security guarantees that will be backed by
31:26
Speaker 1: the United States and the leading powers in Europe, maybe
31:30
Speaker 1: through NATO, maybe not. I think these guarantees have to
31:35
Speaker 1: be believable though, and they mostly have to be believable
31:39
Speaker 1: in Moscow.
31:41
Speaker 2: I know. And when he got invited to Moscow, I
31:43
Speaker 2: don't even start. I'm like, don't take the invite, do
31:45
Speaker 2: not take the invite. That's that's taking the bait. But
31:48
Speaker 2: you're in DC now, still, right? Or where are yes?
31:50
Speaker 1: Well? I mean we're speaking from my home in Potomac, Maryland,
31:55
Speaker 1: but that's right outside of DC. And yes, my work
31:58
Speaker 1: continues to be real and in Washington, d C.
32:02
Speaker 2: All right, let me throw a theory out there for
32:04
Speaker 2: you then. So I was there in March and I
32:07
Speaker 2: didn't really feel unsafe. I felt like we were fine.
32:10
Speaker 2: But are you on the daily when you're there, do
32:12
Speaker 2: you see issues that warranted the National Guard? And then
32:16
Speaker 2: let me ask you this, because this is my big
32:17
Speaker 2: theory of the week. I think he called them into
32:21
Speaker 2: what to clean up DC so that these European leaders
32:24
Speaker 2: don't look at us and say, boy, what a mess
32:26
Speaker 2: this town is. Is there a correlation to that that
32:29
Speaker 2: we didn't even realize till Monday.
32:31
Speaker 1: I don't think so, and I do not think that
32:34
Speaker 1: the takeover Washington, d C. Was warranted. It is not
32:40
Speaker 1: the case. Look, obviously, there are crime problems in Washington,
32:44
Speaker 1: just like there are crime problems in every major city,
32:48
Speaker 1: and more suburbs than and rural areas than you might think.
32:54
Speaker 1: But there there. We are not in a moment when
32:57
Speaker 1: somehow crime is out of control in Washington. It's just
33:01
Speaker 1: not the case. If anything, crime is going down, whether
33:05
Speaker 1: based on murders or robberies or other types of crimes.
33:09
Speaker 1: So no, I don't think it was warranted in any way,
33:12
Speaker 1: and it troubles me because it's again an example of
33:15
Speaker 1: an authoritarian type of impulse that troubles me greatly.
33:20
Speaker 2: It felt weird, but then I started to put two
33:22
Speaker 2: and two together and that was how I correlated. But no,
33:26
Speaker 2: I love DC. I love going there to see the capital.
33:28
Speaker 2: It was fun. It did not feel unsafe in my
33:31
Speaker 2: view anyway. So I guess I'm not out there every day, though, Lawrence,
33:35
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you this. You know, next year is
33:37
Speaker 2: going to be thirty years since they won reelection, which
33:40
Speaker 2: is just crazy to think about. When did you join
33:43
Speaker 2: the Vice president Corps? Was it term one, term two?
33:45
Speaker 2: When did you jump into the fray there?
33:48
Speaker 1: So I came to the administration on l essentially Labor
33:53
Speaker 1: Day of nineteen ninety four, so almost two years in
33:58
Speaker 1: before the midterm elections. I first served as communications director
34:03
Speaker 1: of the Office of Management and Budget, and I did
34:06
Speaker 1: from Labor Day of ninety four through nineteen ninety seven,
34:12
Speaker 1: so into the second term. And then I was with
34:15
Speaker 1: Vice President Gore for all of nineteen ninety eight, so
34:20
Speaker 1: again in the second term, so all together in the
34:23
Speaker 1: White House. I was there four and a half years.
34:25
Speaker 2: All right, So you were sort of in there when
34:27
Speaker 2: that re election campaign was going on and he was
34:30
Speaker 2: I did.
34:31
Speaker 1: I did a little bit of work on it, you know,
34:34
Speaker 1: from the outside, obviously as not part of my official position,
34:37
Speaker 1: but you know, I was on campaign strategy calls, you know,
34:41
Speaker 1: every morning and all the rest. It was really quite
34:44
Speaker 1: exciting because President Clinton had really kind of caught his
34:50
Speaker 1: stride in a sense in ninety six, and the speeches
34:54
Speaker 1: he were giving getting great audiences, thousands and thousands of
34:59
Speaker 1: people coming out to see him, and after all, he
35:03
Speaker 1: hit a great record by that time, I mean, the
35:05
Speaker 1: economy was booming, and it is much easier to run
35:08
Speaker 1: for reelection when you've got a booming economy. And as
35:12
Speaker 1: Clinton used to say, and he was right, everything that's
35:16
Speaker 1: supposed to be going up is going up. Everything that's
35:19
Speaker 1: supposed to be going down is going down. He was right.
35:23
Speaker 1: We had great growth, job creation, investment. At point in time.
35:27
Speaker 1: Drug use was going down, team pregnancy was going down,
35:31
Speaker 1: crime was going down. It was really a good time
35:34
Speaker 1: to be an American.
35:35
Speaker 2: All right, How do we get back to those days?
35:37
Speaker 2: Because I feel like when Trump wants to go towards
35:41
Speaker 2: some things that are in alignment with the you know,
35:43
Speaker 2: Clinton era, the Obama era when it comes to immigration,
35:46
Speaker 2: this generation of Democrats don't like it. So how can
35:49
Speaker 2: they learn from those that came before him to say, hey, yes,
35:53
Speaker 2: there are some things that Trump's doing that's right, like
35:56
Speaker 2: fixing up immigration. Clinton was a big proponent of that
35:58
Speaker 2: lawrence right.
36:00
Speaker 1: So, one of the things that I think most troubles
36:04
Speaker 1: me about our current situation is that the Democratic Party
36:10
Speaker 1: has been largely taken over by the progressive left. And
36:15
Speaker 1: the progressive left seems to believe that if they just
36:20
Speaker 1: yell a little bit louder, they will convince people. And
36:24
Speaker 1: I think what President Clinton understood as the ad vice
36:28
Speaker 1: President Gore, and this is what made them effective, is
36:32
Speaker 1: that the country is essentially centrist. And Clinton may progress incrementally,
36:39
Speaker 1: not in radical terms, not in revolutionary terms. The Democrats
36:44
Speaker 1: need to acknowledge problems on their watch and they need
36:49
Speaker 1: to come up with solutions that are practical that people
36:53
Speaker 1: can digest, that make them believable. But you know, turning
36:59
Speaker 1: your head away and saying inflation isn't that bad, or
37:03
Speaker 1: turning your head away and saying the border isn't out
37:05
Speaker 1: of control, or turning your head away from a variety
37:09
Speaker 1: of other problems is not a formula for gaining trust,
37:13
Speaker 1: the trust of the American people. So, you know, how
37:17
Speaker 1: do we get back to that? I hope that the
37:20
Speaker 1: Democratic Party goes through an evolution where the centrist elements
37:25
Speaker 1: come to the surface and begin to exert more influence.
37:29
Speaker 1: And that's what happened in the years before President Clinton
37:33
Speaker 1: was elected in nineteen ninety two.
37:36
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and maybe we'll get back there, But for now,
37:39
Speaker 2: it's almost like we all have to worry about Mamdani
37:41
Speaker 2: now being elected in the city that's how crazy it's gotten. Yes, Laurence,
37:44
Speaker 2: so it's pretty well all right. I want to give
37:46
Speaker 2: a couple of more parallels here, because I'm watching Putin,
37:49
Speaker 2: Trump and Putin and whatnot, I can't help but think
37:52
Speaker 2: of Reagan Gorbachev. Is there a similarity? There is there
37:56
Speaker 2: any big differences? Like because Reagan kept heb chop and check.
38:01
Speaker 2: I don't feel like Trump's gotten there yet with Putin.
38:03
Speaker 2: Maybe he can. But but Kenny and ge what Reagan did.
38:07
Speaker 1: Well, you know, President Reagan, who've come to admire in
38:10
Speaker 1: recent years, had this expression that I think he took
38:16
Speaker 1: very seriously when it came to the Soviets. This is
38:19
Speaker 1: at the time they wore the Soviets. The Soviet Union
38:22
Speaker 1: didn't crack up until about nineteen ninety one. He used
38:27
Speaker 1: to say, trust but verify when it comes to arms
38:32
Speaker 1: control or anything else with regard to relations with Soviet Union,
38:37
Speaker 1: trust but verify. I think President Trump is far too
38:43
Speaker 1: much on the trust side and far too little on
38:47
Speaker 1: the verify side. So he takes Putin at his word,
38:52
Speaker 1: even though history shows that Putin is a you know,
38:56
Speaker 1: an almost pathological liar that he doesn't follow through on
39:00
Speaker 1: his commitments that he will pretend that he wants peace
39:04
Speaker 1: even though he wants continued war. I mean, anyone who
39:07
Speaker 1: believes that there's going to be you know, peace for
39:11
Speaker 1: the long term with Vladimir Putin in power in Moscow
39:16
Speaker 1: is delusional. If there is a ceasefire, if there is
39:20
Speaker 1: a peace, it'll just be a time for Russia to
39:24
Speaker 1: re arm, regroup and launch the next effort to conquer Ukraine.
39:32
Speaker 2: And that's what I feel like with hamask too, because
39:34
Speaker 2: I feel like Hamas would would would take that would
39:37
Speaker 2: actually not agree to the ceasefirebal Israel would. I feel
39:41
Speaker 2: like that's how that would go. So I agree with
39:43
Speaker 2: you in that context, yes of that.
39:45
Speaker 1: Yes.
39:46
Speaker 2: And you know the other thing about the media which
39:48
Speaker 2: drove me crazy is they were sympathizing with Russian and
39:50
Speaker 2: shoulders soldiers who were duped. Meanwhile, they criticize every American
39:56
Speaker 2: soldier that goes in saying why are you doing this?
39:57
Speaker 2: What a what a hypocrisy?
39:59
Speaker 1: Right?
39:59
Speaker 2: I mean, just side with the Russian soldier and say
40:01
Speaker 2: how bad poor them? It didn't make sense to me
40:04
Speaker 2: at the time.
40:05
Speaker 1: Well, not only that, but keep in mind with regard
40:07
Speaker 1: to their conduct of the war. I mean, Russian soldiers
40:12
Speaker 1: have committed some of the worst human rights abuses that
40:14
Speaker 1: we have seen in recent memory. When I was in Ukraine,
40:19
Speaker 1: I visited the town of Bucha, which is right outside
40:22
Speaker 1: the city of Kiev, and it was an area where
40:26
Speaker 1: with the invasion, the Ukrainians blew up the bridges leading
40:31
Speaker 1: into Kiev from Buka, which would have made it easier
40:36
Speaker 1: for the Russians to roll their tanks in. So in response,
40:41
Speaker 1: as a premeditated act, the Ukrainians blew up the bridges
40:45
Speaker 1: so that the tanks couldn't roll well. The Russians then
40:49
Speaker 1: went into Bucha and took retribution, and they committed some
40:53
Speaker 1: of the worst human rights abuses on the people of
40:56
Speaker 1: Bucha that, as I said, we have seen around the
41:01
Speaker 1: world in recent decades. So I have no sympathy for
41:05
Speaker 1: Russian troops. Obviously, there are good people in Russia that
41:09
Speaker 1: did not want to serve in this war. That's fine,
41:12
Speaker 1: and I empathize with them. But as for the Russian
41:16
Speaker 1: army as a whole, I don't have much sympathy.
41:19
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, you know, And I gotta say the corporations
41:22
Speaker 2: that fled Russia after the war, well, why are we
41:24
Speaker 2: there in the beginning. I don't understand why these corporations
41:27
Speaker 2: ran tail. Hey, you partner with a you know, a dictatorship,
41:30
Speaker 2: stick with them through it? Why not?
41:32
Speaker 1: You know, well, you know you can say the same
41:34
Speaker 1: thing about the dictatorship in Beijing. You know, I mean
41:39
Speaker 1: we're doing I understand our economies are intertwined with with
41:43
Speaker 1: China's economy, so it's you know, it's more complicated. But
41:48
Speaker 1: having said that, you know, it goes back to that
41:50
Speaker 1: issue that we talked about before, and you said it,
41:53
Speaker 1: and I think you're right. We want to see we
41:57
Speaker 1: in the West want to see the good in people.
42:00
Speaker 1: We want to trust that everybody thinks the way we do.
42:04
Speaker 1: So after the crackup of the Soviet Union, we were
42:07
Speaker 1: very hopeful that Russia will turn into a democracy, and
42:11
Speaker 1: you know American corporations went in there, the famous McDonald's
42:15
Speaker 1: opening up in Moscow and all the rest. But you know,
42:19
Speaker 1: business leaders are just as naive as political leaders, and
42:24
Speaker 1: you know they should have read the writing on the
42:26
Speaker 1: wall as well. But they see an opportunity to make
42:28
Speaker 1: money and they're going to go.
42:30
Speaker 2: And you can't forget that puts a KGB agent through
42:32
Speaker 2: it all. I mean there's no doubt that still lingers
42:35
Speaker 2: in his brain.
42:37
Speaker 1: No question about it. Very savvy, very tough, really very
42:42
Speaker 1: much of a.
42:42
Speaker 2: Thug, oh one hundred percent. He gets his own opposition
42:46
Speaker 2: out and kills him. But that's the story because we
42:49
Speaker 2: got to focus on getting Ukraine back up and normal
42:52
Speaker 2: and running. Now, have the buildings been rebuilt because I
42:55
Speaker 2: remember the war torn images, Have that any of those
42:58
Speaker 2: buildings been rebuilt?
43:00
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the as many countries do. They're trying
43:02
Speaker 1: to repair infrastructure as it gets destroyed. And in a
43:10
Speaker 1: certain sense this has become particularly important because Putin has
43:14
Speaker 1: been targeting energy, the energy sector, so you know, electricity
43:21
Speaker 1: goes off in even other major cities from time to time.
43:25
Speaker 2: And actually Trump says that the signing of the Keystone Pipe,
43:27
Speaker 2: that pipeline was really a disaster because it empowered Russia
43:31
Speaker 2: a little bit more.
43:33
Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly right. So, yes, Ukraine is trying to
43:39
Speaker 1: rebuild as things happen. It's certainly not leaving country. You know,
43:44
Speaker 1: buildings in uh in pieces of rubble. They're trying to
43:50
Speaker 1: normalize life in Ukraine as much as they possibly can.
43:53
Speaker 1: But it's very tough. I mean, the Russians are being
43:55
Speaker 1: really tough, and they are targeting, as I said, not
43:58
Speaker 1: just the energy sector, but also you know, residential buildings,
44:03
Speaker 1: and it's a really rough situation over there.
44:06
Speaker 2: All right, I want to end on this because obviously
44:09
Speaker 2: Clinton and Gore skillfully mastered both the national affairs and
44:14
Speaker 2: the international affairs. What were some of because you were
44:17
Speaker 2: dealing with both, what were some of the local things,
44:19
Speaker 2: the statewide things that really you admired the way they handled,
44:23
Speaker 2: both Gore and Clinton while dealing with the international scene.
44:27
Speaker 2: So you being like domestic policy, yes, exactly, domestic policy.
44:30
Speaker 2: There you go.
44:32
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there were a lot of major pieces
44:34
Speaker 1: of legislation that were reforming major systems or major industries. Obviously,
44:41
Speaker 1: we had welfare reform in nineteen ninety six, We had
44:46
Speaker 1: telecommunications reform in nineteen ninety six, we had immigration reform
44:53
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six. Also, while the I had domestic implications,
44:59
Speaker 1: you know, keep in mind, in one of his early battles,
45:01
Speaker 1: and he was right about this. One of his early
45:04
Speaker 1: battles was over what was known as NAFTA, the North
45:07
Speaker 1: American Free Trade Agreement. There was a lot of populist opposition.
45:11
Speaker 1: Organized labor was opposed to it, but economies grow through trade. Overall,
45:19
Speaker 1: trade creates more high paying jobs than it costs the country.
45:25
Speaker 1: Trade is a good thing. He went to bat for
45:28
Speaker 1: NAFTA and he pushed it through Congress. So lots of
45:32
Speaker 1: good stuff happened. There was healthcare reform, not of the
45:36
Speaker 1: comprehensive level, but incremental health care reform. There were just
45:41
Speaker 1: a whole variety of other things. And by the way,
45:46
Speaker 1: it was the last time we balanced the budget. Bill
45:50
Speaker 1: Clinton balanced the budget in nineteen ninety eight for the
45:53
Speaker 1: first of four straight years, and it was the first
45:56
Speaker 1: time the federal budget had been balanced in thirty years.
46:00
Speaker 1: So I think his domestic achievements were really not just good,
46:05
Speaker 1: but almost spectacular. And he was a very good He
46:10
Speaker 1: was a very good steward of the international scene. So
46:13
Speaker 1: pretty successful two terms.
46:15
Speaker 2: And I gotta say, now you mentioned that I feel
46:18
Speaker 2: like Trump forgot about the UFC us MCA, Like I
46:21
Speaker 2: thought that was gonna be the big deal where we
46:22
Speaker 2: all got to alignment, which, by the way, speaking a blueprint.
46:25
Speaker 2: NAFTA was a blueprint for that us MCA, if I'm
46:28
Speaker 2: not mistaken.
46:29
Speaker 1: So it absolutely was. And the changes that we have
46:31
Speaker 1: seen have been even though Trump pretends that they've been massive,
46:36
Speaker 1: they've really been quite incremental. The guts of NAFTA remain
46:40
Speaker 1: in place.
46:42
Speaker 2: Well, let's let's keep it that way and we can
46:45
Speaker 2: go all day because it's just I love picking your brain.
46:48
Speaker 2: Launch it's all. It's awesome. We got to connect. But
46:50
Speaker 2: I will leave you with this notes being a NAFTA.
46:53
Speaker 2: The tariffs are erasing the tax cuts in twenty twenty five.
46:57
Speaker 2: I didn't think we'd hear about here it that way.
47:00
Speaker 1: While the tariffs are more, they are going to do
47:03
Speaker 1: more than offset. They are going to overtime severely damage
47:10
Speaker 1: this economy. Keep in mind, those tax cuts that were
47:14
Speaker 1: enacted this year were mostly just an extension of the
47:19
Speaker 1: tax cuts from twenty seventeen that were expiring under law
47:25
Speaker 1: at the end of twenty twenty five. If we did
47:27
Speaker 1: not extend them.
47:28
Speaker 2: I think they say codify. That was the word they
47:30
Speaker 2: were using, is to codify those tax cuts.
47:32
Speaker 1: Make them permanent. But it's not as if people have
47:35
Speaker 1: more money in their pockets. It's just they have the
47:38
Speaker 1: same amount of money rather than facing a tax increase.
47:41
Speaker 1: So the tariffs are an additional tax on tens of
47:46
Speaker 1: millions of working Americans. Inflation is going to begin to
47:50
Speaker 1: go back up. I think the economy is going to slow,
47:54
Speaker 1: and I think we may be into some for some
47:56
Speaker 1: rough times unless Trump reverses course on tariffs.
48:00
Speaker 2: I think he's got him fifty is getting insane. Actually, right,
48:05
Speaker 2: one last thing, those who may be listening right now
48:07
Speaker 2: and saying, hey, I know Lawrence from the Clinton era,
48:09
Speaker 2: what are you doing nowadays? Tell people that might be
48:12
Speaker 2: following your career, tell us what you're up to nowadays.
48:15
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I continue to make a living as
48:18
Speaker 1: a public affairs and strategic communications consultant, but that's for us,
48:22
Speaker 1: very boring. What I really love to do is that
48:25
Speaker 1: I write a columns once every two weeks on foreign affairs,
48:30
Speaker 1: and they appear in places like Newsweek and The National Interest,
48:36
Speaker 1: And you know, I continue to write books of American history,
48:40
Speaker 1: mostly post World War Two, mostly having to do with
48:43
Speaker 1: America's role in the world. I do a lot of
48:46
Speaker 1: stuff like this, appearing on TV, lots of lots of
48:51
Speaker 1: appearances on Canadian TV actually, where I try to explain
48:56
Speaker 1: America to the very worried Canadians. So variety of things,
49:01
Speaker 1: and if people want to google me, all they have
49:03
Speaker 1: to know is that my last name is spelled Haas
49:07
Speaker 1: and I go by Lawrence with a W. And if
49:11
Speaker 1: they see anything that I've written or said that they're
49:13
Speaker 1: interested in, they should reach out to me.
49:15
Speaker 2: All right, we'll post your website in the links below.
49:18
Speaker 2: But Lawrence always a pleasure, And we got to do
49:21
Speaker 2: this again soon because America two fifty is coming up,
49:24
Speaker 2: and you know what I wrote about it. I wanted
49:27
Speaker 2: the right candidate for America to fifty and I did
49:29
Speaker 2: not think Kalmala was going to be the right candidate.
49:31
Speaker 2: I hope, I don't regret that. But we will get
49:34
Speaker 2: to America two fifty, right, Like nothing's going to implode
49:36
Speaker 2: in the next few months, right, we can pray now.
49:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I believe we will get there, but we are
49:43
Speaker 1: going through some very funky times.
49:47
Speaker 2: Now that I know you're a history guy, we got
49:49
Speaker 2: to pick your brain on that too. Next time. I'd
49:51
Speaker 2: love to do that.
49:52
Speaker 1: Good be delighted. Thanks for reaching out to me. I've
49:55
Speaker 1: enjoyed it greatly.
49:56
Speaker 2: Thanks for another follow up with Lawrence Haas, the former
49:58
Speaker 2: speechwriter for VP al Gore. Thanks again,