Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Police Association President Paul McCue says police attrition is on track to hit 11% this year

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Police Association President Paul McCue says police attrition is on track to hit 11% this year · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Now, yesterday, in a very sad situation, we know that
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Force said goodbye to one of
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  Speaker 1: their own at a memorial service. Michael Dutram was described
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  Speaker 1: as a staunch advocate for the frontline, always one to
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  Speaker 1: lend a hand, humble, courageous, compassionate, hard working and generous
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  Speaker 1: and he applied those characteristics to his life and his
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  Speaker 1: career as a police officer in the Northern Territory. We
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  Speaker 1: know that mister Dutram was one of three suicides among
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  Speaker 1: current and former Northern Territory police officers in three months.
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  Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the Police Association
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  Speaker 1: President Paul McHugh. Good morning to you, Paul.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Ken, Paul.
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  Speaker 1: I've no doubt yesterday was an incredibly tough day for
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  Speaker 1: mister Dutram's family and friends and the whole police force.
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  Speaker 2: It was a very tough day and you know, another
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  Speaker 2: sad reminder of the really difficult job police do and
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  Speaker 2: the impacts it can have on you know, really really
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  Speaker 2: strong people and over time it can really have an impact.
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  Speaker 2: And we saw sadly yesterday barely a dry eye in
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  Speaker 2: the house, hundreds of police there to pay respect to
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  Speaker 2: one of our most dedicated and hard working officers, and
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  Speaker 2: sadly all too soon after a previous death of a
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  Speaker 2: serving officer in similar circumstances who was also a long
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  Speaker 2: serving and respected a member of our policing community. And
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's really highlighted, of course again the dangers,
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  Speaker 2: as I've said, the dangers not just physically but mentally
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  Speaker 2: that our members go out there and do on behalf
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  Speaker 2: of the community every day.
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  Speaker 1: It is you know, it's an issue that you and
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  Speaker 1: I spoke about last week. It's an issue that we
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  Speaker 1: also spoke with the Acting Commissioner, Michael Murphy about last week.
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  Speaker 1: And I understand that the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker has
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  Speaker 1: now confirmed has now confirmed that independent that independent reporting
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  Speaker 1: or the independent meeting had happened. Did you end up
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  Speaker 1: meeting with the police last week or what exactly has
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  Speaker 1: happened and are there going to be some recommendations implemented?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, lookok, this is obviously something that we have been
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  Speaker 2: asking for for many, many years. Every conference we provide
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  Speaker 2: opening addresses to our delegates. The Commissioner at the time,
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  Speaker 2: the Minister is always there and they hear our concerns
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  Speaker 2: around this very issue and we've been flagging this for
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  Speaker 2: a long time and sadly it shouldn't take tragedies like
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  Speaker 2: this to really bring it to the forefront. There needs
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  Speaker 2: to be far more proactive work done to just minimize
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  Speaker 2: the risks associated with this hideous disease. And of course
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  Speaker 2: we did meet with the police recently following our requests
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  Speaker 2: for a review which the government committed to at the
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  Speaker 2: last election, and we've obviously received a briefing, a very
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  Speaker 2: brief report on where that's at. But of course, you know,
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  Speaker 2: really we weren't too surprised, and obviously there's still some
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  Speaker 2: work to be done there, but you know, there's not
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  Speaker 2: a lot of surprises there when we talk about all
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  Speaker 2: the research that's been done over many years, over the
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  Speaker 2: last four or five years on this particular topic. So
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  Speaker 2: there's no real surprises there. And we need to be
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  Speaker 2: investing at the front end to save lives at the
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  Speaker 2: back end. And it's as simple as that.
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  Speaker 1: And so do we have any idea at this point
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  Speaker 1: in time exactly what we are going to see implemented.
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  Speaker 2: No, Look, obviously it's in its very early days. The
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  Speaker 2: very early summary has been provided and still speaking with
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  Speaker 2: some stakeholders. But you know, I won't say underwhelming, but
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  Speaker 2: certainly it needs to be used in a positive way.
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  Speaker 2: I know it the service yesterday, you know, there was
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  Speaker 2: some as I said, the barely a dry eye, and
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  Speaker 2: one of of course Michael's brothers, is a long serving
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  Speaker 2: and respected officer in our police force, Tony, and he
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  Speaker 2: had some very pertinent words Katie at the time, and
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  Speaker 2: obviously PTSD is something that needs to be understood and addressed,
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  Speaker 2: and he won't mind me saying that, you know, in
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  Speaker 2: his speech yesterday he really highlighted the need for more
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  Speaker 2: prevention and awareness in this space. And as an agency,
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  Speaker 2: we need to ensure the support and services are proportionate
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  Speaker 2: to the volume and trauma our men and women are
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  Speaker 2: facing in the front line. We need to ensure that
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  Speaker 2: we have collectively faced and when we have collectively faced
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  Speaker 2: enough because it does break people, Katie, sadly it does.
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  Speaker 2: And when that happens, those people need to be treated properly.
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  Speaker 2: They need to be cared for, respected and be able
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  Speaker 2: to leave with dignity. And that's been a problem for
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  Speaker 2: many years. So I'm meeting with the Commissioner today. I
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  Speaker 2: want this to be an absolute priority for him and
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  Speaker 2: the government they need to step up to the plate.
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  Speaker 2: There needs to be funding provided to make sure we
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  Speaker 2: never ever have to go to one of these again.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sadly going to a funeral next week of a
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  Speaker 2: recently retired officer who sadly lost his battle as well.
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  Speaker 2: And it's tough. It's tough on many of our officers
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  Speaker 2: out there, and we cannot, we cannot be in vain
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  Speaker 2: for what's taken place over the last few weeks.
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  Speaker 1: It is incredibly sad stuff. My heart goes out, you know,
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  Speaker 1: to the families that have been impacted, but to the
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  Speaker 1: whole police force. I think when something like this happens,
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  Speaker 1: it is felt so broadly within the police force and
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  Speaker 1: more broadly within the community as well. And I think
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  Speaker 1: you're spot on, you know, we need to see some
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  Speaker 1: change in this space. I know that the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 1: budget was obviously handed down just a couple of days ago.
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  Speaker 1: Was there anything in the budget, you know, speaking specifically
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  Speaker 1: about these issues with it with mental health within the force.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing that stood out obviously. You know, it's very early days.
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  Speaker 2: We're sort of going through that budget and obviously trying
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  Speaker 2: to make some head or tail of the outcome. Obviously,
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  Speaker 2: the Minister's announced a small increase in that budget, but disappointingly,
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  Speaker 2: employee expenses are down over two million dollars. But there's
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  Speaker 2: nothing specifically jumping out in relation to health and well being.
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  Speaker 2: Now we've got chaplaincy services, we've got peer support officers,
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  Speaker 2: we've got support and well being branches that all of
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  Speaker 2: those services are good, but there's never been enough of them.
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  Speaker 2: We don't have a current chaplain in our springs. Our
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  Speaker 2: well being and health officers about to move on from
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  Speaker 2: down now and we've got no replacement yet. This budget
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  Speaker 2: is a budget for policing and operations at policing. This
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  Speaker 2: goes beyond that, Cadie, This goes far beyond a budget
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  Speaker 2: and dollar figure. This is about saving lives and the
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  Speaker 2: government needs to find money. If they haven't allocated in
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  Speaker 2: this budget, they need to dare well find it and
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  Speaker 2: put that forward for the Commissioner to make sure there's
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  Speaker 2: extra resources in place to make sure that support networks
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  Speaker 2: in there for our officers.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, do you feel as though has the Police Minister
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  Speaker 1: really indicated that this is high on her agenda at
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  Speaker 1: the moment.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we've asked for this review. She committed to the
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  Speaker 2: last and the lead up to the last election to
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  Speaker 2: undertaking that review. But we can't wait twelve or eighteen
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  Speaker 2: months or twenty four months to find money to increase
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  Speaker 2: these resources. There are other jurisdictions doing some terrific work
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  Speaker 2: in this space, Victoria Australian Federal Police. Sadly, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we've had I think seven police officers this year in
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  Speaker 2: the country take their lives, two of those here in
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. And you know, the Minister can't sit
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  Speaker 2: on our hands on this. We can't sit and look
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  Speaker 2: at these review recommendations. And so that's great. In twenty
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  Speaker 2: four months, this is what it's going to look like.
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  Speaker 2: The action needs to start now and our members need
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  Speaker 2: to see that commitment from the government.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, I just want to head across to another another
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  Speaker 1: issue which has arisen this morning. The Opposition leader Lea
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  Speaker 1: Fanoccuiaro was just on the show. She's calling for the
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  Speaker 1: government to support a bipartisan approach to combat the territories
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  Speaker 1: escalating crime crisis and address catastrophic concerns within the Northern
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  Speaker 1: Territory police. So essentially what she wants to do is
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  Speaker 1: sit down with Labor members and the Independents to form
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  Speaker 1: a select parliamentary committee to specifically look at crime and
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  Speaker 1: the reasons for crime and youth crime in the territory
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  Speaker 1: along with recidivism, but then also looking at looking at
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  Speaker 1: our police attrition rates and other issues that we've got
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  Speaker 1: right now, Paul, is this something that the Police Association
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  Speaker 1: would like to see happen?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look absolutely, I mean I don't see any negatives
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  Speaker 2: to sitting down collectively and reviewing what's going on. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: no one should be frightened of such a parliamentary committee
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  Speaker 2: forming and having a look at those particular issues. Now.
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  Speaker 2: You know, obviously we've highlighted the attrition rate for some time.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's on target to exceed eleven percent. Are
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  Speaker 2: you're talking under an eighty officers or more leaving in
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  Speaker 2: a twelve month period. I mean that must be costing
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  Speaker 2: the government millions and millions of dollars to try and
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  Speaker 2: maintain recruiting to replace those officers. So how about we
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  Speaker 2: look at why they're leaving, what we can do to
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  Speaker 2: keep them Because it's a very competitive market. Police are
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  Speaker 2: tired after a couple of really tough years and sadly
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  Speaker 2: a lot are leaving and we need to understand the
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  Speaker 2: real reasons why to try to do everything we can
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  Speaker 2: to stop that, stop that bleed into other jurisdictions and
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  Speaker 2: other roles.
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  Speaker 1: So, Paul, did you just say that the attrition rate?
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  Speaker 1: Did you say eleven percent?
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  Speaker 2: It's on target this year to reach over eleven percent, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: which is extraordinary when you talk about a police force
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  Speaker 2: of one thousand, six hundred and fifty or thereabouts, so
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  Speaker 2: you're talking well over ten percent of that police force
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  Speaker 2: leaving to do other careers and other police force roles
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  Speaker 2: in a one year period. That's just extraordinary, and we
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  Speaker 2: need to understand why.
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  Speaker 1: How does that compare it to other years?
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  Speaker 2: On our year, it's at least double what we were
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  Speaker 2: previously round twenty seven, eight, eighteen or nineteen, and then
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  Speaker 2: the figure was down around four to five percent and
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  Speaker 2: maybe up to six percent, but never never of those
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  Speaker 2: sort of figures. And that's you know, that's indicative of
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  Speaker 2: various factors, but we need to understand exactly what they
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  Speaker 2: are and why people are leaving. And you know, as
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  Speaker 2: I said, it's costing millions to try and tain recruitment
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  Speaker 2: to cover those losses. Why don't we invest in the
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  Speaker 2: reasons why they're leaving and stop it.
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  Speaker 1: Before I let you go this morning, do you know
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  Speaker 1: if there's been any updates on the situation with Mark
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  Speaker 1: Casey being suspended and I know that his pay has
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  Speaker 1: been reinstated, but do you know if there's been any
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  Speaker 1: update in that space.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing at this stage. Obviously, Mark's still receiving assistance through
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory Police Association to help him through what's
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  Speaker 2: a difficult time. And you know, obviously we've been in
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  Speaker 2: touch with police management about that since that story broke
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  Speaker 2: and we'll continue to assist him in that process.
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  Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Paul McHugh, we always appreciate your time.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with us this morning.
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  Speaker 1: And I know it's a difficult time for all of
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  Speaker 1: our Northern Territory police with that memorial service held yesterday,
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  Speaker 1: and as I always say, we really appreciate the work
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  Speaker 1: that our Territory police do and we're thinking of all
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  Speaker 1: of them at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: Good on you, Katie, appreciate this