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The Right's Recycled Mythology of Far-Left Terrorism // 261 · PlasticPills Critical Theory & Philosophy

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  Speaker 1: It's not a coincidence that when you look at these
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  Speaker 1: violent Antifa demonstrations you see any photograph of those who
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  Speaker 1: were assembled to be blunt, Not one of the people
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  Speaker 1: that is demonstrating looks like a normal person. Every one
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  Speaker 1: of them. Their outer appearance becomes a manifestation of their
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  Speaker 1: inner hatred.
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  Speaker 2: Great, here we go, Oh horrible notes start off. Wow,
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  Speaker 2: It's like it's like, what do you think you've swallowed?
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  Speaker 2: You think you've swallowed it, but it's still up in
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  Speaker 2: your mid throat. Okay, today, very exciting. We got our wish,
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  Speaker 2: we got some we got some new myth. We got
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  Speaker 2: the newest update to the metaphysics of Maga, provided by
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  Speaker 2: Stephen Miller and Marco Rubio. They have been working on
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  Speaker 2: it behind the scenes. The new myth, d jure. Why
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  Speaker 2: didn't you know it? It's just a messy a bag
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  Speaker 2: of metaphors. We have cancer, we have ugliness, we have
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  Speaker 2: the clouds of darkness and encroaching darkness. This is as
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  Speaker 2: old as old as it goes, the encroaching darkness coming
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  Speaker 2: to consume white families. Of course, So we got about
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  Speaker 2: forty five minutes of them talking here, and I don't
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  Speaker 2: know I'm scared. I'm scared they've it's all mythic rhetoric.
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it's great. It's not very high effort,
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  Speaker 2: mostly because there's no thematic through line here. I think
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  Speaker 2: they could really benefit from having like sticking to one
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  Speaker 2: theme instead of including everything. Demon's darkness, ugliness, sickness, it's
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  Speaker 2: all thrown in there, and they're speaking to I believe,
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  Speaker 2: a room of diplomats, but of course we're all meant
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  Speaker 2: to hear about it. This is for our benefit. And
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  Speaker 2: they are declaring war on a demon army which includes
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  Speaker 2: Cuba and some other things. Uh, there's a conspiracy, there's
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  Speaker 2: there's cancer that must be cut out of civilization. If
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  Speaker 2: we need to survive, or if we're going to survive,
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  Speaker 2: we need a new, renewed alliance against the newest evil.
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  Speaker 2: And the newest evil is an old evil. Actually it's
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  Speaker 2: rising left wing terror or what is it, far far
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  Speaker 2: left terror flt right. So this is an interesting universe.
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  Speaker 2: It's a spin off universe. It's only very tenuously connected
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  Speaker 2: to what we more generally share as the reality system,
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  Speaker 2: the reality myth, the reality principle. This isn't more like
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  Speaker 2: a middle school project, they did the night before. As
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  Speaker 2: far as myth goes, it's like, yeah, leftists are ugly
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  Speaker 2: and they're sick, and they're coming for your children.
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  Speaker 3: Spook.
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  Speaker 4: It's the the fake real that it's all pretending to
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  Speaker 4: cover up but isn't really there.
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  Speaker 2: That's exactly. This is a Disneyland for sure. But the
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  Speaker 2: key to a good myth or a spin off reality.
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  Speaker 2: The key to having a good spin off is that
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  Speaker 2: it incorporates enough events that the rest of us share
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  Speaker 2: as real, in that we have faith in them. This
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  Speaker 2: is where this is where Rubio and Miller really stumble.
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  Speaker 2: They fall flat because they don't have they don't incorporate
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  Speaker 2: enough shared myth to get people to move over to
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  Speaker 2: the new story. So in that sense, it's really low effort.
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  Speaker 5: It's trying to create a new anti left international.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, But also the inverse, they're trying to create
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  Speaker 2: a leftist international when there is going to create.
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  Speaker 4: A transnational far left political terror network and the turning
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  Speaker 4: of those sorts of terrorism organizations and protocols that have
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  Speaker 4: developed since nine to eleven, in words, to target domestic
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  Speaker 4: acts of violence.
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  Speaker 2: Well, they don't come out right and say the goal,
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  Speaker 2: and I think there probably is some goal behind all this,
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  Speaker 2: but you can infer it's kind of poking through at points.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So in the in the immediate term, it seems to
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  Speaker 2: be being able to with these other countries financially targeting
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  Speaker 2: what they're calling terror networks, so financial freezing people's assets,
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  Speaker 2: freezing people's bank accounts. And they probably have nothing to
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  Speaker 2: do with leftism. There's just enemies, designated enemies. I'm sure
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  Speaker 2: they have targets in mind. I don't know who those
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  Speaker 2: targets are. I'm sure someone does.
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  Speaker 1: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: But no, if you listen, if you listen deep, you
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  Speaker 2: get like they're trying to they're trying to go after
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  Speaker 2: some people's money. But if you listen to the surface,
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  Speaker 2: it just sounds like they want they want Anderill and
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  Speaker 2: Palanteer facial recognition software Android so they can massac our
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  Speaker 2: protesters in the street.
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  Speaker 6: Oh, like that's the goal.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, I mean I think it's I noticed this, this
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  Speaker 5: discourse emerging after the Charlie Kirkiss. I feel like at
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  Speaker 5: that point I could feel the sort of left or sorry,
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  Speaker 5: right wing propagandists, uh, seeing an opportunity, right, and they're like, Okay,
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  Speaker 5: now we can start to reframe this, and they started
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  Speaker 5: making all these links between you know, woke ideology and violence,
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  Speaker 5: and then the attempted Trump assassinations, although one of the
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  Speaker 5: people who tried to assassinate Trump I think had like
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  Speaker 5: weird mixed political views, so.
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  Speaker 6: You know, I do.
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  Speaker 5: I do take it as a very propagandistic, opportunity opportunistic
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  Speaker 5: move and and watching Mark Rubia, but especially watching Stephen Miller,
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  Speaker 5: I got this very visceral sense that he knew.
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  Speaker 6: What he was doing.
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  Speaker 5: Like I was looking at him and I could just
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  Speaker 5: like feel this glint in his eye and I was like,
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  Speaker 5: you motherfucker, It's like, you know what you're doing. And
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  Speaker 5: I do think it's just this attempt to, uh, you know,
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  Speaker 5: legitimize crackdowns on activist organizations on the left.
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  Speaker 6: You know, I feel like the goal is maybe some
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  Speaker 6: kind of new.
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  Speaker 3: McCarthyism, creating a moral panic, like a.
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  Speaker 5: Moral panic about like left wing organizations, and and you know,
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  Speaker 5: it's it's it's frustrating because I think there are obviously
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  Speaker 5: stupid people on the fringes of the left that give
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  Speaker 5: the rhetorical.
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  Speaker 6: Ammunition, right they will.
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  Speaker 5: There are those people who kind of flirt with the
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  Speaker 5: esthetics of of of left wing violence and they you know,
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  Speaker 5: fight the power, and there is this rhetoric that then
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  Speaker 5: they can cherry pick those instances and then use it
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  Speaker 5: to and then make a connection and try to make
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  Speaker 5: a causal connection between.
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  Speaker 2: No, no way, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. There.
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  Speaker 2: They are literally making things up out of thin air.
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  Speaker 2: There's no burden of responsibility.
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  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Oh absolutely. I'm just saying, like I think
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  Speaker 6: I sometimes think.
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  Speaker 5: About, uh, like, successful propaganda has to at least have
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  Speaker 5: a tiny little like you know, grain of sand to
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  Speaker 5: build on. Otherwise it's not gonna work, even if it's
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  Speaker 5: even if that grain of sand is just a perception.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 5: So but that doesn't mean that you blame the grain
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  Speaker 5: of sand, Right, I'm just saying that's the way the
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  Speaker 5: that's the way it functions, right, Like you need something
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  Speaker 5: to build on. And then it's like they can point
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  Speaker 5: to Twitter discourse and they can point to right or
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  Speaker 5: they can point to you know, people who were celebrating
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  Speaker 5: you know, hamas coming in on those like paragliders, you know,
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  Speaker 5: like like BLM posting those and be like, see these.
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  Speaker 6: Are terrorists, you know, they celebrate terrorism.
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  Speaker 4: So there's a lot of ideological distortion being built around
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  Speaker 4: a potential kernel of truth, but probably not. It's usually
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  Speaker 4: just the potential for violence is like stuck in there,
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  Speaker 4: and then a tribute thing and then use to represent
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  Speaker 4: the whole move.
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  Speaker 2: How are you gonna have an argument? You can't have
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  Speaker 2: an argument with someone who says that BLM almost overthrew
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  Speaker 2: the republic.
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  Speaker 4: That's me of the dumping of the algae into the pond,
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  Speaker 4: into the into the reflecting pool. It's like that was
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  Speaker 4: this tip of some conspiracy to bring down the state.
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  Speaker 4: It's like whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down there. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: that probably didn't even happen. First of all, it was
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  Speaker 4: because of the blue and the heat and whatever. But
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  Speaker 4: then now it's now it's a conspiracy. Now it's the
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  Speaker 4: Now it's the tip of an iceberg, and so on
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  Speaker 4: and so forth. Escalating. The word escalation came up, and
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  Speaker 4: that's what all this is meant to do. Escalation, legitimate
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  Speaker 4: state crackdown. Show how it's going to cross these thresholds
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  Speaker 4: of social acceptability, legal thresholds, and then the threshold of violence,
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  Speaker 4: pushing it into terrorism, murder, assassination territory, and then connect
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  Speaker 4: it to a global conspiratorial network and offer what was it,
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  Speaker 4: a ten million dollar rewards to information on the funding
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  Speaker 4: sources of global leftist networks.
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  Speaker 5: And Cuba's a big part of this, apparently, according according
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  Speaker 5: to them, I.
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  Speaker 2: Think Cuba has been funding sleeper cells for decades in
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  Speaker 2: the United States.
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  Speaker 4: He says, the Cold War never ends.
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  Speaker 2: This whole thing is is for the National Security Presidential
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  Speaker 2: Memorandum NSPM seven which came out, which was signed on
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  Speaker 2: September twenty five, twenty twenty five. So this is I
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  Speaker 2: think this was that was right after.
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  Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, I think, right, yeah, yeah, I think so.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what they're talking about to these other countries,
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  Speaker 2: trying to get them on board a couple of weird things.
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  Speaker 2: There was very little reporting on this.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was looking for that too, and there was
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  Speaker 6: only a few.
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  Speaker 2: There was an NPR story, but none of the main
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  Speaker 2: none of the main ones. But this seems like it
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  Speaker 2: seemed like an escalation. Seems like they're word maybe one
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  Speaker 2: speech it had a Hitler level of paranoia.
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  Speaker 5: Well I felt, yeah, it felt it felt kind of
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  Speaker 5: McCarthy and or Hitler like I do feel like part
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  Speaker 5: of the strategy also is I think, you know, thinking
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  Speaker 5: about what Stephen Miller and others like, what's the point
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  Speaker 5: of doing this? And I do feel like one of
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  Speaker 5: the primary moves is to create guilt by association, right,
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  Speaker 5: So if you can say that under like even if
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  Speaker 5: there's some quarters of the left like who will say
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  Speaker 5: stupid larpie rhetorical things about violence, but then they can
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  Speaker 5: they they try to connect it to Zoron Mondami and
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  Speaker 5: just be like, well, he doesn't say he doesn't condemn
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  Speaker 5: these people, like he's part of it. Like they're all
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  Speaker 5: you know, they're all one thing. And even if even
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  Speaker 5: if like Zoron Mondomi himself isn't saying anything violent, well
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  Speaker 5: he's just okay with these other people, he's like part
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  Speaker 5: of it. So I think part of the strategy is
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  Speaker 5: to create guilt bias asociation that can then be used
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  Speaker 5: as a political tool to try to like I think
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  Speaker 5: it's no coincidence maybe that there is actually a little
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  Speaker 5: bit more appetite for populist left wing candidates like a Mondamier,
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  Speaker 5: like some of these others, and then this is like
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  Speaker 5: a useful tool for the right to react back to
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  Speaker 5: them and be like, well we can just you know,
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  Speaker 5: we can try to condemn them all and say they're
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  Speaker 5: all part of this, they all authorize this.
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  Speaker 6: Kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 5: And secretly, people like Mondamie were actually happy that Charlie
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  Speaker 5: Kirk got killed and they want more people to get killed, right,
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  Speaker 5: and they you know, they're happy about the you know,
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  Speaker 5: obviously the healthcare CEO I think is bunched in with
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  Speaker 5: this left wing terrorism and look at oh wow, like
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  Speaker 5: Zoron Mondamie is talking about the importance of healthcare and
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  Speaker 5: then that healthcare executive got killed, but he probably agreed,
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  Speaker 5: like that's the I feel like that's this type of
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  Speaker 5: strategy here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, also saying that that trans shooter was leftist because
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: it was a transhooter, like even though it was like
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  Speaker 2: a terrorgram, a terogram copycat shooting, nothing to do with
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  Speaker 2: leftism as far as as far as all. But it's
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  Speaker 2: just like the four things that they can lump in
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  Speaker 2: here from the nineteen sixties he lumped in like bider Meinhoff,
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  Speaker 2: the Red Brigades, weather underground I think he mentioned so
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  Speaker 2: the left wing terror body count, which it comes to
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  Speaker 2: like a few dozen in the last seventy years. This
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  Speaker 2: is a rising threat. And then there's like, one person
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  Speaker 2: died in Greece, one person died in Germany. This is
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  Speaker 2: the flood that is upcoming. You know, they want to
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  Speaker 2: make DSA a terrorist group eventually, I have no doubt
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  Speaker 2: about that. But of course this also doesn't make sense
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  Speaker 2: in that the DSA kind of helps the Republican cause,
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  Speaker 2: the voting cause, because nothing scares you know, Midwestern boomers
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  Speaker 2: more than communo Muslims taking over in New York City.
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  Speaker 2: So it seems like they're way over playing their hand,
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  Speaker 2: way overreacting to a threat in a way that would
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  Speaker 2: not that does not help the least popular administration in
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  Speaker 2: modern memory, like this doesn't. It feels like I'm missing
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  Speaker 2: a piece that is needed to put the whole thing together. Because, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: the money might make.
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  Speaker 3: Some sense of it it definitely, But.
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  Speaker 2: Is Miller just a psychopath? Is that the Yeah? I
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  Speaker 2: think it seems like that. It has to be more
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  Speaker 2: strategic than that.
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  Speaker 5: No, Actually, I wonder if that's one of the things
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  Speaker 5: you said just now. Is the reason the mainstream media
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  Speaker 5: isn't covering it because maybe a lot of the mainstream
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  Speaker 5: media just sees this as a totally obvious stretch that
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  Speaker 5: they're just like, what's the point this is just stupid
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  Speaker 5: rhetorical nonsense, like how many press conferences does Trump have
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  Speaker 5: announcing things that well, like in your video the reflecting
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  Speaker 5: pool that it's just like absurd, and it's like, what
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  Speaker 5: does this even even mean? You know, it's not gonna
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  Speaker 5: But I also think there's an interesting point about it.
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  Speaker 2: They gave those kids at the detention center, like five
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  Speaker 2: hundred years of prison time. One guy wasn't even there
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  Speaker 2: and got thirty years.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true. Actually, that's true.
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  Speaker 4: The silence appears to be consent because like the apparatus
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  Speaker 4: for Trump and his administration to talk directly to people
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  Speaker 4: and bypass the mainstream media and all the journalistic standards
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  Speaker 4: has been so huge. It's been so built up since
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  Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, and in the latest cycle that you know,
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  Speaker 4: it's a pretty effective communication tool. Like back in the day,
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  Speaker 4: I guess when political parties wanted to get their message
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  Speaker 4: out there, they at least probably majority of it had
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: to be channeled through the mainstream media. But that can
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  Speaker 4: be bypassed completely with YouTube and press releases and Twitter
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  Speaker 4: and truth social and all these like direct to voters
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  Speaker 4: kind of communication methods. Now, so the media would just
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  Speaker 4: rather remain silent about it and sort of give it
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  Speaker 4: tacit consent rather than like submit it to an editorial coverage.
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  Speaker 2: They did also release a list this week. The title
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  Speaker 2: is Cuba's Campaign of Subversion or something like that, the
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Campaign of Subversion. And one of the people who did
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  Speaker 2: report on this was Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. She's
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  Speaker 2: on the list, but so is Mom, Donnie the Ben
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  Speaker 2: and Jerry's founder, Hassan Piker. They're all like, they're all
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  Speaker 2: like sleeper sales for Cuba, but they're putting elected representatives
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  Speaker 2: on the list. So I don't know, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: It seems like a stretch. You can maybe hurt them
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  Speaker 2: a bit by freezing their bank account, but I can
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  Speaker 2: imagine the public backlash or something like that happening. Jimmy
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  Speaker 2: Kimmel was one thing.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the Democracy Now coverage was obviously critical, and they
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  Speaker 4: had a couple people on. They had like a former
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  Speaker 4: FBI agent and then like an investigative journalist named Ken
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  Speaker 4: Klipperstein investigative reporter, and they both basically said something similar
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  Speaker 4: about this is this is the effort to turn that
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  Speaker 4: like sort of international terrorism apparatus inwards towards like domestic issues,
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  Speaker 4: and so you had like people fighting the ICE agents
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  Speaker 4: being charged with like terrorism adjacent charges and being handed
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  Speaker 4: out like huge sentences, and even people not directly involved
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  Speaker 4: in like the quote unquote violence against the ICE agents
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  Speaker 4: being arrested and like threatened with jail time.
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  Speaker 2: Given jail yea given though they were there.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so like they were basically in agreement that, Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: this is like setting up that sort of thing. Where
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  Speaker 4: like there are domestic terrorism cases too, and those were
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  Speaker 4: largely built around right wing violence, which since the beginning
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  Speaker 4: of time has been the larger and more dangerous threat,
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  Speaker 4: like you know, klu klux Klan. A lot a lot
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  Speaker 4: of that legislation was built around like white white nationalism
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  Speaker 4: and stuff like that, and so that stuff and the
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  Speaker 4: international terrorism stuff being joined together and put to the
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  Speaker 4: you know, purposes of the current administration. Hence this like
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  Speaker 4: sort of cycle of converging these different threats together left
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  Speaker 4: wing violence, well violence, left wing politics, activism, and normal
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  Speaker 4: participation in the legal in the political process, crossing like
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  Speaker 4: legal thresholds and crossing thresholds of violence, all of this
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  Speaker 4: being like put together and put under this label of
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  Speaker 4: like far left terrorism FLT and all the sort of
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  Speaker 4: variations on that. It becomes this big, massive network and
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  Speaker 4: networks together all these different largely unrelated things, mostly peaceful things,
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  Speaker 4: mostly justified things, things that are well, and it puts
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  Speaker 4: them towards all into this camp of like this is
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  Speaker 4: beyond the pale, because it all is associated with this
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  Speaker 4: like this violence that has the potential to destabilize the
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  Speaker 4: state and threaten like Western civilization, and threaten the very
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  Speaker 4: fabric of like American society, which is like one of
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  Speaker 4: the biggest claims they're making. This is all, you know,
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  Speaker 4: violence against the state. They hate the state, they hate government,
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  Speaker 4: they hate order, they hate God, and they hate God,
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  Speaker 4: and they hate what they're the Like how was Rubio
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  Speaker 4: putting it? Like they are weak people who hate our
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: achievements and hate our strength and all this like sort
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  Speaker 4: of weird Nietzschean language.
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  Speaker 7: This is a distinctive and unique evil. It has always
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  Speaker 7: been driven by a hatred above all else, a hatred
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  Speaker 7: for civilization itself. It is a revolt of the worst
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  Speaker 7: against the best, a revolt of the weak and the
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  Speaker 7: cowardly against the strong and the good. It is perpetrated
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  Speaker 7: by those who cannot build, who cannot create who cannot
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  Speaker 7: achieve great things and take their revenge upon the world
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  Speaker 7: for their own inadequacy by seeking to destroy those who can.
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  Speaker 7: This is what radical leftism is.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. He made that. He made like two
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: massive columns. They each had their columns. Always be an
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  Speaker 2: alert for columns of oppositions. But Rubio, he said, like
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: we are the builders, the creators, the inventors, the strong,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the brave, and the left. They are the destroyer. They
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: destroy us because they hate us and they're jealous of us.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So the envious, also the weak and the cowardly.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I want to give another a good example from
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: Miller's speech, but actually first I just want to say
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: back up to something you said about like how they're
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: trying to connect this kind of diffuse disconnected things some
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: cases of violence, Like I think for me also, whenever
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: there's discourse about terrorism, I just for a long time
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: have found it have found any view that thinks that
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: the main cause of terrorist acts, insofar as we can
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: call something a terrorist act is ideology like unconvincing. I
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: feel like the only times when terrorist acts are really
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: you know, primarily committed by through some sort of ideologies,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: when there's some network, there's some organized network behind it,
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: and there's actually like a goal, like for example, you know,
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: with you know in Ireland when they had the troubles,
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: Like I feel like there was a whole organized resistance
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: there and these but a lot of the cases that
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: he's pointing out are these lone gunman loane bomber cases.
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: And I've always found it unconvincing to connect those kinds
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: of cases to ideology. You know, people say mental health.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: I think something like that is a better explainer. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: whether it's on the right or the left, I mean
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: these right wing which by the way, that's another thing
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: that the NPR story covered is you know, if you
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: look at the past twenty years, I mean, there's obviously
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: way more I think four or five times more right
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: wing terrorism. I think it's just in the last two
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: years where technically there's been you know, if we even
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: accept the label of what the ideology is left wing terrorism,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: there's been like more. But if you just look at
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: the last ten years, there's way more. And again even then,
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: I'm skeptical about connecting it to an ideology. I just
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: think that the ideology is kind of a bad a
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: bad has kind of weak or at least incomplete explanatory
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: force for these like lone kind of mny cases.
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: But then yeah, but then when we think about the
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: discourse that they that they use, I mean, this is
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: so Stephen Miller, you know. He says here in his speech.
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: Leftists look at a perfect family with the perfect life
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: and a perfect job and perfect kids, that goes to
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: church every Sunday and is filled with a feeling of
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: inadequacy and jealousy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: And they covet and they turn those emotions ultimately into
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: a desire to subjugate, to oppress, and to inflict pain
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and suffering. The leftist looks at what is beautiful and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: what is good and what is natural, and is filled
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: with envy and hatred.
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: Not one of these people that is demonstrating looks like
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: a normal person. Not one looks normal. They are all
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: deformed in some way in their appearance, in their dress,
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: in their mannerisms.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: This was the best is not hilarious? Like, what kind
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: of argument is that? Don't listen to those guys? They're ugly?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: That's funny, funny enough. Also in Itchian argument, he said
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the Athenians were right not to listen to Socrates because
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: he was ugly. He also calls them a cancer, so
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: there's a like a health The healthy body are the
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: people who goes to church. He doesn't go to church, right,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: the cancer outside of the church. Well, the perfect families.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: It's like what this is and it's envy. I have
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: to think when Google said this stuff, it sounded like plausible.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: When who said this goobles.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, because that was the first This
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: is like first just tragedy, second time as fun exactly.
• 23:41
  Speaker 6: That's oh my god.
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: I was thinking literally the same thing when I was
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: watching Stephen Miller that it's like, this is like a
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: funny girbels.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Stephen Miller, famously not the most attractive man in history,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: got kind of like a melty face and sleepy eyes,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and he's got this weird, over eager way of pronounce
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: saying things that you know, you're kind of you're kind
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: of weird, dude. He comes off like a school shooter.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: You know, if Matt Boehmer was like, people hate because
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I'm beautiful, I'd be like, Okay, it just doesn't it
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: doesn't hit. It doesn't hit. When Steven Miller says it,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I love.
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: This thing that they all look deformed. He's like, they
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: don't look like normal people. There's deform.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, monsters in soul, monsters in face. You're appealing to
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: something that doesn't exist. Just like when you said all
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: these other like resistances are parts of networks. They don't
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: have a network, so they just invent one out of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: thin air, like Antifa. Antifa's probably there's like probably two
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: thousand people in the United States who's like, oh yeah,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I'm Antifa. My my marxist lenin his reading group, we're Antifa.
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: I love that. I love this look.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: He goes on, and he's like every one of them,
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: through the course of their life and their decisions, has
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: scarred their body and their appearance in many different ways,
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: to the point in which their outer appearance comes a
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: manifestation of their inner hatred. Trust your instincts to all
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: people and across all civilizations. You know what normal is.
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: You know what beautiful is, you know what good is.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: You know that families are right. You know that children
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: are precious and beautiful and must be protected. You know
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: that that's.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: A register again. So yeah, it's about I mean, I
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: found a great explanation for this. I mean, it's just
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: one potential explanation, but it's it is that sort of
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: one that originates with Graham Chi and hegemony, right, And
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: it's a crisis of hegemony and the effort to produce
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: a moral panic in order to justify clamping down on
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: descent and legitimizing like a more strict law and order
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: control approach. Because one of the one of the ways,
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: one of the reasons for tying together all of these
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: disparate elements into this sort of one seemingly homogeneous phenomenon,
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: pointing to the way people look and connecting them to
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: all these other things, and then giving them this like
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: sort of fear of violence. And then and then the
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: states like, then the state needs to respond to this.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: Once they set this situation up, they have to respond
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: to it. And I was looking at Stuart Hall, and
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: here's he's quoting somebody saying this when when the state
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: is not seen to be fulfilling this basic function in
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: the face of a serious and sustained upsurge in violence,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: either criminal or political, we can be sure of one
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: thing that sooner or later ordinary citizens will take the
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: law into their own hands, or will be disposed to
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: support a new form of government. Better equipped to deal
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: with the threat. So then there becomes this imperative, this
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: political imperative, like if they don't want the Dems to
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: get elected, they don't want some other party to get
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: people's favor, they want to look like their case capable
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: of handling this threat, and it sort of creates this loop.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: And we talked about escalation what Stuart Hall calls a
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: signification spiral.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's a good term.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, as these sort of stages of identification of a
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: specific issue of concern, identifying a subversive minority, and then
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: convergence or linking by labeling of the specific issue to
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: other problems.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: So that sounds like semiotics. So then yeah, another way
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: of saying that is them you're making sign associations and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: they're just like, while we're at it, we might as
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: well lump in as many things as we can try
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: to fit in here into the same story as the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: thing that we have to respond to. Is that kind
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: of the idea.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And then this convergence interacts with those thresholds I
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: was talking about. I hinted at where you have like
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: sort of civilized society and then going into like non
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: civilized or deviant behavior like sexual deviance, which is a
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: big thing that you know, sexual deviant behavior. It's not
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: necessarily dangerous. It can be like it's very non violent, libertarian,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: pornographic whatever. For example, in the nineteen seventies, some homosexuals
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: involved in the gay liberation movements did belong to the
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: radical or Marxist left. A signification which, however, assumed that
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: all homosexual reformers were Marxist revolutionaries, would be one which
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: inflected a real convergence in an ideological direction, an exaggeration
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: who is credibility would nevertheless, no doubt depend on its
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: kernel of truth. But again he says that would be
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: a misrepresentation both of the many reformers who were without
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: overt political commitment and the critiques which Marxists made of
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: traditional left attitudes towards sexual issues. The Marxists who think
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Marxism is not very is not very welcoming not gay homosexuals.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: So it's just just a complete It misrepresents the issue
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: in like a million different ways. But that doesn't matter
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: because in the signification spiral, when you're trying to produce
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: these convergences and escalate the issue from like you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: isolated moral panics into a general panic about social order,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: converging them based on these like essential features, you know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: picking out like saying, it's all violent, it's all radical leftism.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Look at the homosexuals. Look how these people look. They're
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: all Marxists. It doesn't matter about the nuances and the realities,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: and that most of them are. That's just the strategy
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: for convergence, you know.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: See this makes sense because all transgenders have to be leftists,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: because being leftist means to deviate from the norms. So
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: even the terror nazi satanist transgender shooter is a leftist
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: by virtue of being transgender. So everything gets caught in
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: that spiral.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then the next stage is the prophecy of
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: more troubling times to come, and then the final step
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: is the call for more firm steps, which is exactly
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: what they're working on now. I mean, this signification spiral
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: perfectly describes situations just like this one. And this one
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: is actually in the later stages. Is in the prophecy
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: of more troubling times to come if no action is taken,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: and the call for firm steps. We're actually in the
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: last stages of the signifying spiral.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So okay, Stuart Hall. He was writing this in the
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, right, So what was the original time
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: it happened? What was was the what was the crisis?
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I mean he was writing this, Stuart Hall and at
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: AL we're writing Policing Crisis about mugging in the seventies
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: in the UK and how it was kind of used
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: in the same way.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: They had a mugging crisis that was blamed on leftists
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: or leftists.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: Well, it came over They never used the word mugging.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: It came over from the States. Yeah, it came over
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: from the States to the UK. Suddenly it appears at
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: this new vocabulary and suddenly all these different like things
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: that were happening roll I think some of the terms
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: they used before were rolling people, like rolling hooliganism, like
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: all these different terms they all suddenly just became like
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: mugging crept into every similar instance, even if there were
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: all very different kinds of And then there was a.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Mugging crisis all of a sudden.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there was this like really really like significant event
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy two. I think it was where these
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: three people mugged somebody and they ended up getting stabbed
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: and that the two the three people were given twenty
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: and ten year sentences for like mugging and injuring the person,
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: and instead of what would have usually happened was like
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: it was assault with intention to rob, it was put
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: as like an attempted murder and they were and it
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: became this like really significant, like sort of criminal case,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: and it changed the way that criminal cases were dealt with.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: And I guess, yeah, he was, he said that, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: that was that was a flashpoint on this signification spiral
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: up past this like general panic and up through this
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: law and order society kind of response, where that where
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: it became sort of tied into this like crisis of
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: the gemony and the attempt of the state to shore
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: up its legitimacy and its control on the core economic
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: functions by by you know, eliciting consent from people, by
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: constructing this narrative about this challenge to society and social order. Yeah,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: that's that's sort of how it all goes. That's what's
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: happening here.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I think, well, that's a really useful framework and it's
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: been a I think I've I think I have heard
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: of this. It's kind of bringing it back. But if
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: we do this signification spiral. The whole thing is in
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Rubio's speech because he begins, he begins with nine to eleven,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: because you have to. If you don't start with nine
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: to eleven, there's no body count for terrorism in the
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: United States.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big one.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So you have to start with nine to eleven. So
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: he he goes into like granulate detail about nine to eleven.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: There was a network here, the network. We didn't pay attention.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It changed everything, blah blah blah. Three thousand died. Then
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: then one hundred people more died in London, et cetera,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: et cetera. So if you don't and then you have
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: to tie this into leftists of course. So first, I
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: mean you can say it as premise, well, terrorism exists.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So he proves terrorism exists by.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: So the specific issue is terrorism. And at first, the
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: original subversive minority was like radical Islam. That was the
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: original subvert that was like the model subversive minority that
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: was attached to that, I think in the beginning, Yeah, that's.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: The Islamic network terror.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: Now he kind of, I mean, he went back a
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: little further in history to like the radical politics of
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: the sepeties. But yeah, I think that it's reasonable.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So stage premise one is terrorism exists. Nine to eleven.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Number two is leftist terrorism exists. And then he goes
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: back to sixties and seventies. He brings up Red Brigades,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: batter Minehoff Weather underground, which is especially funny whether underground
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: as far as I know, only killed their own guys
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: in a bomb explosion accidentally. And then bider Minhoff and
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: the Red Brigades not American, but I think they killed
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: like a few dozen each total. So that's his justification
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: that left wing terrorism exists. And then the next stage
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: of the spiral that you mentioned is okay, left wing
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: terrorism is resurgent, and he brings up Charlie Kirk. I
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: think probably Charlie Kirk is the only legit. I mean,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you call it terrorism, but it's
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the closest thing. Then he brings up the transhooter, Yeah,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: the transhooter attacking the Catholic church, the terrorgram shooter, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: then what was it Luigi, Yeah, who has no discernible
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: connection to any leftist anything. So I think it falls
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: flat because then his call for action is right after that,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: we have to stop this, we have to we have
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: to prevent this. But the only example that you have
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: is Charlie Kirk of ascended. Oh and he uses BLM
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: right talking about assassinations. And then the next sentence is
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: BLM tried to destroy our cities. And I think the
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: quotation is brought this They tried to bring this country
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: to its knees, as if BLM was just steps away
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: from overthrowing the United States Republic. So but then, but then, okay,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: we have to join together and stop this from happening.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: It fall, it doesn't hit. And maybe that's why it's
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: not being covered because it's like, okay, we need to
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: stop the network that killed Charlie Kirk. They were saying
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: this too, like obviously there's no network. Obviously they were
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: saying this too during Minnesota, like there's a network, and
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: it was it was people in a discord or people
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: in a group chat who are like, Okay, here's the cops,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: here's where the cops are, right now, here's where ICE
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: is right now, that's the that's the network. But you
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: can see I think the real target again is funding.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: They want to go after people's bank accounts. They want
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to go after people associated with DSA by calling a
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: terrorist organization or a'san piker me good man.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: They want like, yeah, seizing as US probably a big part. Yeah,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: that's what they'll want to do, seize assets. But you
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: can see there, like I mean, there's there's the convergence.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: This is the signifying terrain. These are these are the
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: ideological extensions of it within the signifying field. And you
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: have your convergences of all these different groups b l M,
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: trans leftist, political political dissent, activism, social deviance or perceived
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: social deviance. And then you have the thresholds. You have
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: the connection to violence where now now suddenly this this
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: whole group gets this homogenizing label leftist terrorism and it
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: is said to cross the violent thresholds and engage in
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: assassination and violence. So there there you have your convergence
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: in your threshold. And then you have the you know,
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: if we don't take action, now, this is going to
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: get worse. And then you have the government. Now, the
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: state is gonna call for some firm steps to be
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: taken against this threat to the social order, and it's
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: going to involve, yes, stricter laws applying these likes these
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: like international terrorism laws because of course all of this
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: domestic stuff is connected to international money pipelines that byft
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: left wing radical terrorist organizations.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: They did actually out. The outcome was they did designate
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: for European groups as what is it called far left
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: FLTs Antifa OAST in Germany, the Informal Anarchists Federation in Italy,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the Armed Proletarian Justice in Greece, and the Revolutionary Class
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Self Defense also in Greece. Yeah, it just seems Yeah,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: it seems like just a bizarre like like kids with
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: reading groups in Greece. Seems like a very weird thing
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: for Marco Rubio to be focused on.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a I was also thinking that there's something
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: like the ideologically charged nature of it, and then the
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: fact that there's been clearly some pretty wild cases of
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: what we might call right wing extremism and terrorism or whatever.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: There's like I think there's some a member of State
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: Senate in Once and I think maybe Minnesota that was
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: killed not too like early before Charlie Kirk. And then
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: obviously there's things like January sixth, and I think it's
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: interesting to me that obviously those things aren't mentioned, but
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: I feel like its absence is maybe and the fact
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: that Trump also pardoned all the people, all the January
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: sixth people.
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: I think there's like an empl.
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: Listity by the absence of mentioning any of that that, Oh,
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: that's actually just uh, you know, people who are trying
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: to defend civilization, right, those are just people who are
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: trying to like defend what's beautiful.
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: Like they're not saying that, but.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: I feel like there's a subtext to it where in
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: a way it you know, it feels like they're doing
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: what they maybe accuse the Left of doing in a
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: certain sense, there's like a mirror image or something like that.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, goes without saying I do want to I do
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: want to correct the record. I said that Armed Proletary
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Injustice was a reading group. They did conduct a bank
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: robbery and still three thousand euros, so not a great
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: bank robbery. And they also blew themselves up, two of
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: them blew themselves up while making an ied prepared or
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: targeting law enforcement. So a little more than a reading group.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: But Eric, back to the Stuart Hall reading that you
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: were telling us about, here we have terrorism now like
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: retroactively leftism is terrorism. They had mugging, so did how
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: did in the seventies how did mugging become something that
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: the leftists were doing that now all leftists are muggers
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: and muggers are leftists. How did that happen? In that case?
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: One of the.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: Terms that Stuart Hall gives an example is student hooliganism.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: So the connecting together of like student protests and vandalism
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and violence. So he says something like this, you know, connects,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: connecting and identifying to almost wholly discrepantive phenomena. But this
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: also shifts the political terms of the issue that posed
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: by the emergent student movement by resignifying by resignifying it
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: in terms of a more familiar and traditional, non political
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: hooliganism problem, that is, by translating a political issue into
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: a criminal one, the link with violence and vandalism, thereby
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: making easier a legal or control rather than a political
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: response from the authorities. This transposition of frameworks not only
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: depoliticizes an issue by criminalizing it, but it also singles
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: out from a complex of different strands the most worrying
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: element the violent one. And finally, by signifying a political
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: issue through its most extreme and violent form, signification helps
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: to produce a control response and makes that response legitimate.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot of signify there's a lot of
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: work being done by the state through this signification effort,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, and yeah, legitimate. And we know that the
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: state is the one who has the legitimate you know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: the monopoly on legitimate violence. So what the state does
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: isn't really violence, because violence is transgressive.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Really convenient that Gladio Condor overthrowing the government of Chile.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: None of these were violent. It's really really nice for them.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: So there we have it. Imaginary convergences therefore serve an
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: ideological function, Stuart All says, and that ideological function has
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: real consequences, especially in terms of provoking and legitimating a
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: coercive reaction by both the public and the state.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: That seems like, I mean, well, good on you. That
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: sounds like a pretty pretty accurate explanation. So just to recap,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: in the seventies, it was some people got mugged. Now
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: we have a mugging crisis, and it's not like violent mugging.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: It's different sorts of mugging. All now called mugging. This
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: is the scary word. Now, student protesters, protesting war or whatever,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: they're mugs they're they're mugging too, they're thugs mugging. We
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: have to clamp down on the protests. Oh yeah, and
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: then gays are communists, so climb down on everybody. Everybody's protesting,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: civil rights protests, whatever, it's deep down the core is
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: violent mugging, right. And then today it's terrorism. Leftists are
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: planning they're organizing anti family terrorism at churches, Cuba is
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: supporting it. Trans people are planning their next terrorist attack.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So we need to clamp down on everybody, and especially
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: freeze DSA's bank account. I mean that sounds that sounds
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: about right, man, that sounds about right. And it's all
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: done via semiotics, which I extra appreciate you bringing up. Now,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't think this is gonna work. I mean,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I'm being optimistic, but I don't think this is gonna
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: work like this. Yeah, but then who's the audience, right,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Who's who are the sixty six diplomats that are at
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: this conference? And are they like, are they nodding along
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: because they're like, yeah, we don't, we don't, we don't
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: want these labor movements to get out of control. Or
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: are they just you know, nodding along? So that Rubio
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't sanction them.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: It makes me wonder because it goes back to what
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: you said about like first as tragedy then as farce.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: Like I think most people can tell, like you said,
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: this is kind of a farce, but there's a place
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: for farce in an age of social media and like
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: social media rhetoric and YouTube and conspiracy theories. So I
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: think I feel like that's the audience in a way.
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: I feel like the audience is not actually serious people,
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: quote unquote, but is to contribute to that, to that
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: kind of rhetorical and ideological economy that we found that
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: we find online in these spaces that do have this
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: kind of influence, because this is I mean, this is
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: going to fit perfectly with tons of people, tons of
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: figures like Candas Owens and you know, Tucker Carl, Like,
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: I'm sure they all love this shit. They're like, yeah,
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: this is exactly what we're saying, and now the government's
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: taking it seriously. And in so far as those media
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: figures have an influence on mega voters, them having this
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: official looking press conference to talk about that stuff then
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: feeds into that rhetorical space, and then that rhetorical space
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: can be like, look how serious they are, even though
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: everyone I think who's normal is kind of seeing that
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: both of these groups are kind of a farce. So
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: it's like a weird I feel like it's like a weird,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: like aesthetic situation that has a real effect on the world,
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: but it's hard to tell how significant it is. I
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: feel like there is a line or if it does
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: become actual McCarthyism or something where I think the public's
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: not going to really buy it. But it's like, if
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: you just want to keep it at this level of
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: aesthetics and rhetoric, then it's like, let's have fun with
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: this and we can go back and forth.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Well Candace, Candace won't work because she doesn't think leftist
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: killed Charlie Kirk.
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Tucker could go either way because he does think that
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: the left is secretly undermining Western civilization, but he's also
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: really anti MAGA at the moment, so yeah, that's true.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: It depends if they hitch their wag into the narrative.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: I think that's where the limits of like the kind
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: of Western Marxist cultural materialist analysis comes in too, is
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: that it is kind of farcical because what they would
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: hope for, then, like what the cultural materialists would hope
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: for is like oppositional decoding and political resistance through sort
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: of ideological like deciphering of like what's really going on
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: here and just seeing I guess, get getting to the
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: point of seeing that it is just like the kind
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: of hegemonic play to show up the ruling class ideology
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: and the and maintain control over the core like economic elements,
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: and and get your consent while doing so. And and
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: therefore like there's there's a kind of revolutionary potential in
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: decoding this sort of stuff. And yeah, and then I
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: think that's where sort of boudriyards more like pessimism is
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: I think more accurate, is that people just sort of
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: see it as a farce. Both sides are sort of
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: there's no reality. Both both sides are sort of all
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: these these set this semiotic loop, this signifying spiral isn't
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: spiraling around any real core like the economy, the structure,
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: and it's like a superstructural semiotic signifying terrain. It's just
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: so that you just respond with like, well, they're both silly,
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: so I don't care.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the real explanation for it. Right, because
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: we said this, This can't be sold because it's it's unbelievable,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: but it's unbelievable. It is kind of the point, like
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Victor said, wait at the beginning, it's almost like Stephen
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Miller says what he says knowing that he's gonna get
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: to watch libs calling him Googles on the on the
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: TV at night. So everyone is in on the game.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: No one is meant to be the audience, even the audience,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: even these these diplomats, No one is meant to believe
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: what is being said. Yeah, why it's being said. Then
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: we have to go to the symbolic, the symbolic terrain.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: In the symbolic terrain, you're not allowed to just crack
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: down on people or invade a country without a justification, right,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: because it's impolite. It's not polite to just crack down.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: So you have to piece together something that you know
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: is false, something that the audience knows is false, in
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: order are for the crackdown to be legitimate, because otherwise
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: it's a it's not polite. Yeah, and Rubio, at least
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Rubio wants to be president, so he has to play
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: the game with the Democrats. Now, the Democrats they don't
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: believe in anything either. They they they they need to
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: be the ones to sit there after the crackdown happens
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: and go no, no, no, no, no, you went too far. Yes,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: there are some bad apples in dsay, yes we should
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: get them off all the ballots. We agree, but now
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: you're going too far. We don't want them to be
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: in jail. Right, So the the DSA, the leftists are
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: ruining the game by actually believing in something bye bye,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: by not playing by the rules that have been established.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: So the other the people who are playing the game
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: have decided that you know, they're they're they're deviating from
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: the rules. But the Republicans are still following the rules.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: They're saying, we're we have to crack down on these
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: people because they're ugly. Look everybody, everybody see they're ugly. Right, Okay,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: crack down is now legitimate. Invasion of Cuba is now legitimate.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: And the Democrats get to play their role of going no, no, no, no, no,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: you guys are bad. Is this is not allowed. You've
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: gone too far, even while fundamentally agreeing with the sentiment here.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: So the construction of the of the signification spiral that
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: you introduced to us, Eric, The significance of the spiral
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: itself is to offer legitimacy to what happens after it
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: is completely arbitrary whether or not the associations have anything
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: to do with any outside system. And for the first time,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I think now they're allowed to show it. Now they're
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: allowed to say, hey, look, we don't believe it, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: we're still allowed to do it. And that's what I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: called hype real fascism is we don't even believe it,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: we know, you know, we don't believe it, and we're
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: still gonna do it.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that's right.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I think, in my heart of hearts, I still
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: do kind of hang on to the story that that
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: you know, the the liberal the liberal establishment and the
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: conservative establishment usually come together around like a traditionalist kind
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: of reading of things, and the left is the sort
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: of outcast. So you have the left on one side
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: and the sort of liberal conservative centrist establishment on the
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: other side. And sure, like the political the far right
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: comes out and becomes a problem, but like I don't know,
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: when the when the chips are down, they kind of
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: go away, and it seems to be kind of everybody
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: versus the left, because I think the left, the left
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: has the most more coherent critique, because the right just
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: engages in conspiracy theory and the left has the sort
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: of materialist critique, which I think is more more destabilizing
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: for the center than like Jews are running everything. That's
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: that's not very destabilizing because it's obviously silly when it
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: comes down to it again, like the violence is real
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: that that kind of narrative produces, but it's not. But
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: the narrative itself doesn't get at the core of anything.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't make sense. With the Soviet Union, you
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: can do McCarthyism, but like with Cuba, which is a
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: third world country on its last legs, you can't. You
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: can't blame Cuba for Amy Goodman and then use it
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: as pretense to freeze Amy Goodman's bank accounts. No one
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: would buy.
• 53:50
  Speaker 8: That, No, I mean, maybe they could, Maybe they could
• 53:55
  Speaker 8: get away with it if if they could, if they
• 53:58
  Speaker 8: linked it in with enough other things, all the leftist violence,
• 54:02
  Speaker 8: all the left terrorism, sorrows, terrorism, and Greece, then then
• 54:08
  Speaker 8: freezing Amy Goodman's bank accounts would be just the part
• 54:13
  Speaker 8: of the sweeping crackdown that includes anti ice protesters, people
• 54:21
  Speaker 8: dumping algae into swimming pools, and people murdering health executives.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: It would just all be it would just be one
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: one thing rolled into whatever what are they calling Trump's
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: his his directives, which are actually called They had that
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: acronym national Security something Something's mention it right at the.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Beginning, NSPM seven.
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: Is this one, Yeah, yeah, I forget what that stands for.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: But anyway, yeah, the next one, the next one of those,
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: the next directive, n SPM eight, yeah, national something. It
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: looks like there actually already is nspms all the way
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: up to twelve, so national Security Presidential Memorandum something something.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Anyway, anyway, the reality principle is gone. They know it's gone.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: They're wink wink winking that it's gone while also pretending
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: that it's not gone. But everybody knows it's gone. And
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's scarier. It's scarier that they know. And
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I thought some prayers are with Amy Goodman.
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hope democracy now keeps keeps it up, keeps it up.
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll see.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: I mean, it'll be interesting to see if there's any
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: like steps beyond the rhetorical because I feel like, right
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: now are my feeling and it sounds like it's your
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: feelings as well. Is this is going to maybe stay
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: at the level of like like performative, like cynical ideology.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: But then if we see actual things happening.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: But it is happening, I mean it's spotty. It's not
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: like on a grand scale, but I mean they're probably
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: still testing the waters to see what they get away with.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Like if they have these sixty six countries and be like,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: all right, guys, this is the game now, and you
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: cannot play the game, and then we're going to tear
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: a few or whatever leverage they have, and they almost
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: certainly have some. Then if everyone's playing the game, it
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter, Like belief is irrelevant.
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: I think also the I mean the older style analysis,
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: this is like shocking stuff. I mean again like Stuart
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: Hall or someone like that from the seventies and eighties,
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: when you criminalizing left wing activism is quite like shocking.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: I think that's twentieth century. That's shocking twenty first century.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: If Trump it's called a National Security Presidential Memorandum, that's
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: what they're calling it, number seven, which frames left wing
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: activism as a form of political terrorism, Like that seems normal,
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: that seems like, oh, yeah, that's a perfectly legitimate, like
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: political move that the right is doing. Yeah, they're like
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: criminalizing people expressing left wing views, Like oh of course, like,
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: of course they're doing that. Why wouldn't they do that
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: if I were if I were a right wing politician
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: and I could get away with doing that, is not
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: if it's not illegal? I mean, yeah, sure, why not.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: I mean I don't agree with it. I think it's
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: I think it sucks, but like I guess it's just
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: doesn't have that shock value that the sort of I
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: don't know what you'd call it, the Overton window I
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: guess might have been in a different place fifty years ago.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: But now that's like, that's a perfect move.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: The Overton window. The Overton window has shifted, is one
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: way to say it. Or the reality principle as it
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: was is no longer there. There's no there's no invisible
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: decorum code that you have to follow that pertains to this.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I think it is interesting that there is still a code. Right,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: they are still providing a justification, an unbelievable justification, but
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: they still feel the need to show a justification but
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: they are at the same time flexing like you're going
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: to be satisfied with with this shit.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: Of course they're doing that, and why wouldn't they, And
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: they're just they're just sort of connecting it into this disrupt, identify, defund, debank, arrest,
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: and prosecute thing that Stephen Miller was saying. It's just
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: basically treating treating like these again like quote unquote left
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: wing terrorists on the same terrain as all Kaida and
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: ISIS and other international terrorist organizations, like treating them with
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: the same severity as those groups. Like it's like every
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: time that happens, it becomes a little less crazy. It's
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: still crazy, but it a little bit less, a little
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: bit harder to oppose because a little more normalized this
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: time around, each time, each each trip around the U
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: signifying spiral becomes a little less wacky.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Al Qaeda Red Brigades the Charlie Karkshooter. There you go,
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: some genius. I can't remember who it was, but I
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: heard a really intelligent person on YouTube say everyone's a
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: terrorist now.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: Mm.
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: Of course.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Props to whoever that was good call.
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: Then, even like I mean, it's nothing new as well,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: like left wing groups have been claimed to have foreign
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: funding or be foreigners. I mean, I'm pretty sure in
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: like the nineteenth century and early twentieth century anarchists, anarchists
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: were being called leftists and accused of having foreign funding
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: or being foreign agents. And yeah, it's not different, It's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: happened before. But this is a new convergence, a new
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: signifies spiral that the Trump administration is consciously using.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Yep, a new science system. But yeah, I hope it
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. I will well stay on it in case
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: it does. Civilization against the encroaching darkness.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 7: It is time for the people of the civilized world
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 7: to defend ourselves, to stand united against this encroaching darkness
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 7: and fight fight for what is ours.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: All right, guys, it's good for today.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all going to collapse under the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: weight of its own absurdity.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they're going to add to it, is what
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, not that it's going to collapse.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: We'll keep we'll keep up with it if they keep
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: using terms like cancer and ugly people. Yeah exactly, Yeah, good,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: all right, take care.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: Of selective Yeah until next.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: Time, Until next time. Indeed,