Latest / WoT Spoilers / Breakfast in Manala, Some Tricks of the Power, Keeping Custom, & The Evening Star - New Spring ch20-23 - EP589

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Breakfast in Manala, Some Tricks of the Power, Keeping Custom, & The Evening Star - New Spring ch20-23 - EP589 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast, and yeah.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Get into this exciting penultimate building up to the conclusion
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of New Spring episode.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: See is that why it's Archer pen dragon because he
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: was the penultimate dragon. He's like the one who was
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: like gonna call the big guy who came right before rand.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I don't hate that as the headcanon. I don't hate it.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Arthur because like penultimate, that's such a unique word, and
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: it's one that I didn't learn until I was, like,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I think, an older not older, but until I was
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: an adult, right, Like, it wasn't one of those like
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: foundational words that I had as a kid. It's when
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I learned when I was older and went, that's a
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: cool word because it means the next last one.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: But it's worth Yeah, it's a neat word.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: It's a neat word.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I made sure that I was clear on pen ultimate
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: versus penultimate, and embarrassingly recent embarrassingly recently.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the second one is. I've never heard.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I don't either. It's just what a lot of people
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: will say, and it's wrong. It's not ultimate, it's not
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: pent ultimate. And I did not really like consciously set
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: that distinction in my head until embarrassingly recently.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not a Pentagon, so it's not pent
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: A pen ultimate would be like the biggest Pentagon ever.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Pen's Ultimate.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what we should call that building where we
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: do all of our war crimes, the Pentagon. Yeah, the Ultimate.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: So what are we doing today?
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: We are doing chapters twenty, twenty one, twenty two, and
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: twenty three. Four chapters, which is a little more than
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the last time, but we'll get through it. One of
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: them is pretty short.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of them is pretty short. And there's some
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: sections that are like just walk and talk scenery. It's
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: not a talking, it's just the walking.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: It's just walking. Yeah. Do you want to read us
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: into chapter twenty then no, because it's land. Eh okay, yeah, sorry,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: you make the opening quote through me.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's it's land. It's it's we're starting with
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: mister mclanah.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: You know, I've been resting on my laurels this book.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: You've had to do all the readings because it's been
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: all the marine stuff.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pull your weight around here.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: All right. Chapter twenty Breakfast in Milana, and we have
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: the trollic Try tap Try. There's a word for that triptick. Triptick,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: thank you. You may call me Lady Elise, the strange
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: little woman told them when she climbed drowsily from her
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: blankets at sunrise, stifling yawns with a fist. Apparently she
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: was unused to sleeping on the ground. Land was certain
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: she had been awake. Every time he took a turn
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: at guard, people breathed differently, awaken. The sleep well women
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: who wore silks seldom encountered hardships or discomfort. He doubted
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: the name as much as he did the great serpent
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: ring she produced, especially after she tucked it back into
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: her belt pouch and said, no one must know she was,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I said I, not even other sisters. True, I said,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I often pretended to be ordinary woman, and carried it
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: off with those who did not know a sister's face.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: And true, once he had encountered an I said I
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: who had not yet attained the ageless look. But one
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: and all they practiced serenity to a fault. Oh, they
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: got angry, but it was a cold anger. He had
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: seen Alisa's face in the moonlight when the water stopped,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: though he had not realized what he was seeing till later,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: childish glee at a played prank and childish disappointment that
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: it had not worked as she wished. I said, I
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: were many things and convoluted enough with it to make
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: other women seem simple, but they were never childish.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: You avoid isid I so much? How would you know?
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: It's all prejudice? He's women, isaid, I are women like
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: anyone else, and they mask a little better because they've
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: got the power, right, But they are just especially Moraine,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: right fresh out of her novice thing, like she's not
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: in control in the same way the later Moraine.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Is yeah, and it's funny. He thinks that she was,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: you know, tossing and turning because she'd never slept on
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: a hard bed, But we know it's because she has
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: wards on them and the ground is probably softer than
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the bed she slept on.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: As an accepted, she's like, oh, my back's sinking into
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: this mud exactly, But yeah, it's one hundred percent. She
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: was just stop watching them all night. It was nothing
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: to do with whether or not she can sleep on
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: the hard ground. He sees her as soft.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he has so much prejudice and stereotypes that he
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: can't even register what's actually happening.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: And does not believe she's an actual I sid ee.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which she's doing a good job at pretending not
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to be one. You know, she's pulling that off pretty well.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You know, she's got haughty lady energy going on, but
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: she is not practiced at making people see her as
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: eyes to die, and so she's pulling off don't seem
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: me as a nice to die very convincingly.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, But I also wonder like I would think as
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: lady of Kyriene and she would be able to pull
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: off a little more.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: She was a child when she went to the White Tower,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: though I know.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: It's it's funny that I don't think about that. I
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: think of her as being this kyrie in late lady
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: noble for a long time. But it's like, no, she
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: was never.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: She was fourteen when she left, or sixteen or whatever, like, yeah,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: she was not practiced at being a kyrie and lady,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: just practiced of being a kyrie and and child of
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: a noble house.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: And there is I'm assuming some of that like house
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: of throw house.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Sorry, it's you take it in with your mother's milk.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: They were raised with it at their mother's knee. Blah
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah like yes, but yeah, a career
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: of being an adult woman in the Kyriene and Noble
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: House political circle. No, she was play acting at that
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: and practicing for and getting ready for it, and then
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: she pivoted to being an eese to die. So yeah,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: she just doesn't have experience living in the world as
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: an adult. She does not have the graps. She will
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: have it shortly. She's going to grow up real fast
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: in that regard. But yeah, she is still fundamentally untested,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: well not untested, I mean she was literally tested repeatedly,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: but unseasoned, right right, So yeah, Bookama is really mad
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: at Land for not respecting Lady Alice, and he's mad
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: at Boukama for respecting Lady Alice when she doesn't deserve
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: it because she keeps offering insults upon insults and it's
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: sort of this other conflict that's grinding his gears. Wow,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the trip with Alice's actual pranks is going on.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Small error on the cover art. Apparently in the cover
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: it shows Boukama still writing some lance, but in the
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: scene he's writing his new black gelding.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Eh Darryl ka sweet?
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: How could how could you so small continuity air there
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: on the cover. Art Hey, at least he didn't get
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: the main symbol of the series upside down like he
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: did in the Path of Daggers.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: You know, the bars in Hell. We're learning Land has
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: a great thought about Kyrian in general over one particularly
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: memorable ten days in the South of Kyrie, and he
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: had almost been killed six times and nearly married twice.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: That's a fun little vignette to just let you know
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: how the game of houses can go. I mean, that's
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: kind of what Rand was dealing with again in book two,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: where like all these women are quartering him and talking
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: about their husbands and da da da, and like you
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: get a sense that Land had to go through a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: similar kind of gauntlet and get out with similar shenanigans
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: and hijinks to what Rand had to do.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: But I almost feel like you could produce another prequel novel,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: like in the way that like I Threw You in
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: a Pond basically produced this prequel novel like thatrequel where
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: we're like, oh, let's hear about Lan and the stuff
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: he did and almost got married twice and almost killed six.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Guns hanging a time or two or this is like
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a Laris Outriggor.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some lines characters draw that dropped that. You're like, man,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that would be a good back story. I'd love to
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: see that. But Nope, we see some iceid eye like, oh,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: we're gonna stop and eat now type typical behavior from
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: her when he's like, yeah, of course we're gonna stop
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: and eat, Like, don't tell me what to do when
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I'm already doing it.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's also using it as cover for her
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: search for this woman. Right. He sees it as just
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: her being all top down and telling them what to
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: do and really what she's doing and she's making sure
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that they can get to the next place where she's
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: going to check the name, and like everything else is
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: all just smokescreen for that.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean the other thing that she's doing is
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: flirting with Reese a bunch, right and that. Yeah, but
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: I think she's watching him, right, This isn't flirting. She
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: thinks he might be a dark friend.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, flirting is a really good way to get
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: someone to lower their guard, right right, right, A few
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: more details, like, I mean, it's a good strategy. You
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: get to play with the boy toy and potentially interview
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: him for being an evil piece of shit. Win win.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I just I think she's very much. I don't think
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: she's doing it because he's cute. I don't think she's
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: doing it because he might be a potential order. I
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: think she's doing it because she thinks he met with
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: an isid eye and she's trying to figure out why.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. But flirting is the strategy that
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: will work best with.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Him, right, because he's a natural flirt.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: It would not work on Bookama or Land right. Like
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: he's flirting first, she's matching energy and saying, Okay, that's
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: how I'm going to interview you. Yeah, exactly, But yeah,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I would agree if she's looking at any of them
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: for a order, it's Land she's not looking at recently.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: She's hoping he's not a dark friend's she's really hoping
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: that it turns out that he fails her test. But yeah,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: she's definitely spending time with him because he seems like
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the easiest one of them to crack as far as
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: getting an insight into who he is. And she's wrong
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: about that, But she's starting with a cute, friendly one.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: And I one hundred percent think all of this testing
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: of Land is testing him for order. Like basically, when
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: she hit him with that wall of water and he
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: didn't get knocked over, she went, oh, what else can
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: he stand up to?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: That's like the most platonic like hello, yeah, exactly, like, oh,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: you can take a tunnel of water and keep standing,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: you might have what it takes to be my order.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Let's see, can you withstand all of these bugs and bites?
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: And can you hold your tongue? And like, I feel
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: like it's just like this is dating or interviews. This
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: is a job interview basically all of these like Torments
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: of Land is a big job interview.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also got like some serious elements of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: like a Taming of the Shrew kind of thing. Yes,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: like she doesn't even fully acknowledge what she's doing. Yeah,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: there's this like unconscious attraction that like when it all clicks,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: it clicks. But yeah, there's a lot of unconscious attraction
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: that's happening. It happens to not be romantic, but I
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: don't see why any of the rest of those dynamics
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: don't apply.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Can we call it hazing?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It is kind of hazing, Yeah, especially with how we've
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: talked about the White Tower hazes people pretty hard. It
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: would make sense that untested fresh moraine or unseasoned fresh
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: moraine would yeah, just replicate that sort of abuse. Yeah,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: as doctor Pants says, can you tolerate my abuse? If so,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: welcome to our relationship. Like it's cute in like a
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: you know, nineteen eighties kind of way.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: And so my wife has me watching some Love Island,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: so I've absorbed it involuntarily. But the amount of like
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: that level of relationship where it's like, if you can
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: tolerate my abuse, then we can be in a relationship.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Like I see that dynamic on there, and it's gross.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: It's so gross.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: That is not that's not it. That's just not it.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say as a person who's been married
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: for a long time, that is not it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: But I feel like that's why I think it's more
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: of a job interview, right, because it's like, we're going
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: to face this abuse together. Can you stand that, you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: is this something that you can deal with if we're
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: going to go face this level of like bullshit from
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: the outside world.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Again, perfect replication of how the White Tower approaches this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Your friends need to abuse you so that your mentors
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: can abuse you so that the world can't break your
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: She's just passing that lesson along to the guy she
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: wants to be co workers with.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Which just comes from that. Oh, if it doesn't kill you,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: it makes you stronger. Thing that I don't believe in.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, no, but Land does we see why this works?
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: And honestly, I think Robert Jordan did as well. Right,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: he sees overcoming adversity as something that makes his characters stronger.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: And it's a fantasy trope. It like, you beat them down,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: you beat them down, you beat them down, they refuse
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: to take it anymore. They reach a new level of
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: power and rise up with that new level of power.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lie and a fantasy trope and a
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: thing that people have been gaslighting themselves themselves with for many,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: many decades. It makes sense that Robert Jordan believed it
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: at least enough to not question it as he wrote
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: his Epichi fantasy series that was meant to help perpetuate
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the genre of tropes right right, right, Yeah, here in
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, I do have some bones to pick
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: It's one of those things where I really I've come
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: to feel like at the difference between sci fi and
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: fantasy is the democratization of power, right, Like to me,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: that's when I when I look at, like, what is
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: the difference between like, cause it's a really hazy difference, right,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: it's really hard differentially between sci fi and fantasy in general.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Right to me, it's fantasy if there's a chosen one
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: who's picked by some arbitrary power, it's fantasy. It's sci
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: fi if it's democratized technology that anyone can get hold of,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: you just happen to be the one who's using it best,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: or happen to be the one who's getting a hold
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of It's why Dungeon Crawler Carl sci fi.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is also getting traumatized into having new levels
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: of power, so you know that is happening as well.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: But that happens a lot in sci fi.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: But doesn't that kill you? It makes you level up?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, what's happening. Yeah, I'm not saying that's exclusive
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: to fantasy, but the the oh, this is happening to
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: one very special boy versus oh, this could be happening
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: to everybody.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, Lady Alice Moraine, she's a very special girl,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: so she's going to need a very special boy to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: be her wader.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: They talk about traulics and she's like, I faced them,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: and he's like where, and she's like, in places you
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: would never dream of, because of course it was in
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: the dream. It was in her testing, which.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Is dream places you would never dream of. I'm like,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: how does the os allow you to say that, because
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: technically it's a place you would dream of because it's
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: a dream. But she doesn't know that about two things, right.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, he would never go through the because he
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: could never go through those gateway, the testing gateway, so
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: he would never be in that place to dream of, right, Sure.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is a funny choice of words because
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: it's like she's essentially saying in a dream that's only
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: from magic girlies. But it is kind of cool how
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the White Tower was able to give her that lived
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: experience before she went out into the world. So she didn't,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: you know, make a fool of herself the first time
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: she saw a troloic. Instead she could be cool about it, Yeah.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Except like, is that experience any safer than doing it
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: in the real world?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm saying from the White Tower's reputational
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: perspective to have even their freshest of sisters be like, oh, yeah,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I fought trollocks, right right, that works well for the
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: mystique of the White Tower.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Whether it's any Safer.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, within their own logic, it makes sense
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: like that is one of the things they said they
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: wanted was to have sisters going out there already able
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to take care of trolocks. But yeah, Safer, No, absolutely not. Yeah,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think a training video, PowerPoint presentation on how
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to fight tralcks would help.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I've read about it, right, Yeah, I watched a video.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: So we get a bunch of land saying like, I
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: can't believe. I do not believe that Moraine is I
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: said I because this is clearly all about me, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: she's being sent by Adelen Aiden whatever whatever her name is,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: you know, seduce me and fuck with me. This has
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything else. This is all about
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: my little internal struggle for power.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Right, because I'm a special boy and no special girl.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Whatever cross paths with me, it's just a side character
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: in her quest. That makes no sense. I'm the specialist
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: of boys.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: I do like the way this book is written as
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: kind of like two main characters who are both going
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: out there like main quests, and they're like, oh, you
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: want to join up and do main quests together?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Well, because they do show up as a unit and
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: stay as a unit for the first you know few
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: books of the main series, right like they are Moraine
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and Land is like a ban and chiad, right like,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: they are one unit. You don't think of them as
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: anything but one character. And yeah, originally they were two
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: main characters. And then you get a sense of how
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: much Land and Moraine are the same, because you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: she slips out of this in to go meet with someone.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Do you think she channeled to do that or do
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: you think she just is good enough. I don't think
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: she's good enough to slip away from Land without him noticing.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I bet she's got a sound dampening weave that she
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: was able to lay down so he didn't hear the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: bench straight back or whatever. But then you know, Reese
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: is like, well, where'd she go? Maybe she like went
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: to the bathroom, And Land's like, oh my god, you
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: don't talk about that, And he says literally one of
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: the lines that Moraine had said in a previous chapter.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: There were matters one spoke of and matters one did not.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: It's an internal thought in both cases, but it is
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: the same line, and it's like, oh, you're the same person.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: That's why they're going to get along. Well, that's why
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: they're destined to be such good colleagues and teammates is
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: because they both have very specific ideas about There are
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: things one speaks of and things one does not speak
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: of them and proper in their own way, Prude's in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: their own way, but it's compatible.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: So Lan follows her out, and here's you're asking about
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the Saharas, the people she's looking for.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Sahara's. And I noticed she's talking to a woman
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: wearing wide trousers, kind of like there was women wearing
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: pants in the world before men decided to be the
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: most special. Not like other girls girl that ever, not
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like other girls twenty years prior. There's a woman just
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: wearing cool pants. And yes, I do believe this is candory, but.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Not scritted for writing. Are you sure?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: It says trousers and these are the kind of pants
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: that Brigida will model after. Right, when Brigida has her
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: candor attitude and when she has her candory backstory and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: all that, she does wear white pants and here we
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: are seeing evidence that white pants are candory. But I'm
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, Min was not necessarily the first woman
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: to ever wear pants.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: But they're wide pants. They're more like big, blocky, square things.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: I think of Men as the first person to wear her.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I think of Min was wearing like yoga pants.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Men was wearing skinny jeans for sure, whereas yeah,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: these are more billowy. But still it's just yes, women
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: wearing pants has been a thing. I don't think Min
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: was wearing yoga pants because she did do manual labor.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I think she was wearing skinny jeans. Elaine was wearing
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: yoga pants doing her acrobatics.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: That showed everything. I mean that pretty much brings us
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: to the end of than Land being like speculating about
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: her motivations. But I don't really have much ELTs in
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: that chapter.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Well, he sneaks up behind her, thinking he's being super stealthy,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and she knows he's there, I would assume because she's
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: put a little ward or a finder or something onto him,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: so that way she knows where he is. In case
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: he's a dark friend sneaking up on her and it
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: kind of freaks them out a little bit. But uh,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you know, she's paying attention to you, bro, she might
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: like you. She's paying a lot of attention to you.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that's all that I have got. Oh, she
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: just insults him one more time if Malkirie keep their word,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: as I've been told, stalks off. She's being annoying. But yeah,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: that's all I have. And then we're on to chapter
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: twenty one.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Some tricks of the power, which is that this is
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: the torment chapter, right, this is the chapter where they're
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: riding to cha Chin and every night we get a
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: new torment a land. I think it's six nights on
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: the ride.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Also there's an assassination attempt that's pretty exciting.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sorrying to get hints that Morain is mostly interested
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: in Land of the Three Men, but yeah, this is
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a short, snappy chapter that has some notorious and exciting moments,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: and the symbol is the flame.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Land knew the ride to chat Chin would be one
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: he would rather forget, and the journey met his expectations.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: They rode hard, passing merchants, trains of wagons, never stopping
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: long in a village, and sleeping under the stars most
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: nights since no one had the coin for ends, not
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: for four people with horses, barns and hayloffs had to
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: do when there was a barn or haloft to be
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: found come nightfall. Many of the hills along the road
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: bore neither village nor farm, only towering oak and leather, leaf,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: pine and fir, with smaller beach and sorghums scattered through.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: In the Borderlanders, there were no such thing as isolated farms.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Sooner or later a farm set off by itself became
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: a graveyard. Just yet, you're not going to get Emmons Field, right,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: you know you're going to get the two rivers, get groups.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, kind of seeing what Paren has to pitch
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: to people in book four, saying if Tralics are going
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: to be a hazard, we need to reorganize our population
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: and defenses.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: You can't put some boys on the roof and they're
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: not going to protect you from the incoming threat, because
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter if you see it coming. If there's
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: only ten of you and there's three hundred trawlocks.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And you can't protect fields that are far out and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: away and distant. You have to, yeah, completely consolidate and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: plan your defenses and clear the trees and all that
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Yeah, paren has to make that pitch,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: you know, over the course of two days. This is
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: a landscape. Or that's been true for centuries.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: I've seen some interesting farm layouts because apparently a lot
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: of what people want to do with their farms is
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: they want to have lots of land, but they want
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: to have their homes close together, and so there's all
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: sorts of interesting layouts where you like I saw one
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I think it was Dutch. I'm not going to be
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: sure about this, but where it's like essentially the farmland
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: is only the with of the house, but it goes
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: back like five miles.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think I've seen these. I think, yeah, from
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Denmark or not from Yeah, from the Netherlands, from England,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: and then they.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Have all the houses like on the same street and
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. So you're all the houses are close together,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: but then you have all this land behind it that's
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: that's being farmed.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like I saw a cool aerial picture
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: from I want to say England that was like it
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: was like a wheel and the houses were all in
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: a circle in the middle, and then they had these
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: you know, increasingly widening wedges going out from the back,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: so that way, you know, they had a good chunk
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: of property and neighbor stuff. And yeah, it was like
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: a wheel shape. Very cool, much better than having one
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: little farmhouse surrounded by just a bunch of wheat and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: soy and you're going to be miles Yeah, totally. It
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: makes way more sense than how we do it in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the American West.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: And that's how I kind of imagine the Malki are
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: is like they all they might have like a lot
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: of land around them, but each individual town is pretty
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: well clustered.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they also need like walls and alisas and stuff.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to retreat in sight of something,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: even if your fields get trashed by trollocks in the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: last extreme. Right, So this is again you know, thinking
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: more about like European Middle Ages consolidating of forces and stuff,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: like you need walls if you're gonna be constantly assaulted
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: by trollocks or barbarians either way.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: All right, so here's a question. She protects them from
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: the storms, and he thanks her right for you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: basically keeping them dry and keeping the hail off their heads.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Because it's a big, big thunderstorm coming out of the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: light her face hardly altered in its smoothness, a very
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: good imitation of an isid eyes, serene expression, but something
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: flickered about her eyes. A strange woman, and I wasn't
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: sure what he was talking about there.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: She performed the same service for the second storm, and
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: both times she seemed surprised at their offered thanks. I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: think that's just it. It's just that she's trying to
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: seem cool and chill, but she's also like kind of
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: giddy at getting acknowledged and thanked for her use of
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the power in this mundane way. She's not shock and
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: aweing them, she's not winning a conflict. She's just protecting them.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And they're like, wow, thanks, that's really handy. And she's
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: kind of like puffed up about it, and she's tried
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to pretend she's not, but he can see it in
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: her eyes. That's how I interpreted that. I didn't read
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: much into it. It seems like a weird thing to be
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: pleased about, but that's how I interpreted it.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I'll buy that. Next we have them being attacked by
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: about fifty bandits, twenty five in the front, twenty five
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: in the back.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Right, they've been attacked by small groups of bandits that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: were easy to show off, and now this is a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: group that's actually prepared to take.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: On all four of them, are they Well.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Clearly they're not, but they think that. I think that
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: the other bandits that they shoot off for more opportunistic, like, oh,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: there's some people, let's go see if we can open
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: open nevermind, this force I think is intending to take
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: down these four. They have actually gathered enough people that
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: they feel like they're it's an assassination mission rather than
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: a crime of opportunity. Right, I think the other ones
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: are crimes of opportunity, this one isn't.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: And yet Land is essentially able to intimidate them into
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: running away.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Moraine uses the power to yell at them. That kind
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of sets it up to succeed with shooing them off.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Oh and it was thunder. Yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I think it also has a lot to do with
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: the fact that Lana and his horse do not respond
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: to what Morain does, so it really gives the impression
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: of having these orders.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I really I read that too fast. I read that
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: too fast. I missed A red fire exploded with a
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: roar above the band its head, like, yeah, she does
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: a little pop little firework in the sky to caram off.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she does a flashbang, and then Land, who they
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: know who he is, says you'd better run and they're like, yeah, no,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: a Flashbane plus Land counting to three we're adding, which.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Just tells you the power of the Land Moraine combination, right,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: is they can run off fifty people essentially by themselves.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Without even coordinating on. Both have so much main character
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: energy that they can pull that off.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Now, of course she's pulling the whole like if they
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: had attacked, I could have killed them all and saved
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: a bunch of lives. And he's like, yeah, no, that
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: would not have gone well for us, Like even fifty
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: people would have probably overwhelmed even Land.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: To which I say, maybe that means she's a really
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: badass eye to die, uh huh. Maybe maybe that means
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: that she is so powerful that she's like, fifty is
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: not a big deal. I got this, Like, maybe she's
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: very powerful.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Because at this point she's what top five most most
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: powerful I sid I in the world.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And still not fully at her maxed out power. Yeah,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: and she's like, fifty would be a little like I'd
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: probably be breathing a little hard by the end of it.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: But like I got this, which you know we saw
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: her isid eye test, right, Like, I have full confidence
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that she could take down fifty bandits even if none
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: of them break and run.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Especially since they don't have bows and arrows. Right, I
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: think if they were shooting bows and arrows out of her,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: that might be a little hard. All she did put
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: up a shield of air to stop bows and arrows,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: which again crazy that doesn't happen more often in the series. Right,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: if she can do it now fresh out of the tower, Like,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: let's go back to like all the other fights she
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: was in, when she should just be doing that by
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: default anyway.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd think it would just be the kind of
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: thing that you turn on as soon as you go
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: into battle every time.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Every time. Maybe I said I just don't go into.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Battle often enough whatever, But she.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Actually seemed to believe she could have defeated close on
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: fifty men by herself. You know what, I don't think,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: especially with four you know, warriors to clean up anybody
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: who gets past her.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the ones that would run away, the ones
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: that would surrender. I think that the four of them
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: could have taken down fifty bandits and handled the situation
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: just fine, but it would have been quite the distraction.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that Morain is doing a very Elaine
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: like thing here and being but the rule of law matters,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and might makes right and right makes mighte. And you know,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: these guys are like pragmatically speaking, we just survived a
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: serious robbery attempt with no injury, so like, let's just
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: take the win and move on. And then we get
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: into the montage of ailments that Moraine visits on Land.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: The first night is mud, The second night is being
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: kept awake. The third night is sand somehow getting inside
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of his clothes and boots.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: I hate it. It gets everywhere, by the way, just
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: for this is totally a sidebar on an older episode.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Land was born in fifty three and Moraine was born
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: in fifty six, so they are three years different in age.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Land is three years older than Moraine.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, they truly are the same person, just on
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: different paths. The next night is the ants, the blue
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Aja weave that brings in all the ants and makes
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: them bite him at the same time. The next night
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: after that, she manages to get him all poisoned, oaked
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: out blister leaf. But you know, I'm calling it poison oak,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: and uh, that's it. That's quite the escalation. That's miserable.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: He is itchy, tired, blistered, and.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: I love her thoughts though where She's like the blister
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: leaf made him jump, proving he was made of human flesh,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: which she had begun to doubt. Right this like he's
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: he has been so stoic and so unresponsive. She's like,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: is this man even human?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: He has been able to face with what feels like
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: superhuman ability all the things she's throwing at him, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: that's perking up her ears a little bit. She's very
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: admiring of that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: She didn't think anyone could put up with her, you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: aside from Swan, and Lamb thinks about how he doesn't
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: know what she wants. He has no idea what reaction
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: she's trying to get out of him. He's just trying
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: to endure it. He has no idea what her mind
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: game is. And then we switched to her POV and
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: all she wanted was a display of remorse for dunking
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: her and an apology. All that's all she wants in
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: her mind. She's like, all I want is the obvious thing.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: This is very obvious. You need to feel bad for
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: throwing me in a pond and apologize for it. And
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: he's like, I have no idea what you want from me.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: It's so funny to me that they are both so
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: arrogant that that is their relative reads on this conflict,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: And so sorry. Just age wise, if they're born in
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: fifty three and fifty six, and it is currently nine
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: seventy eight, they would be twenty two and twenty five, respectively.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: They're so young, I think, because them as so much
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: older even now. I'm like, yeah, they're young, but they're
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: not like young young, they're young young. They're baby young.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: She's literally fresh out of college. She's a couple of
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: years past that.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, twenty five is like finally not a baby
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: any m m. That's that's wild, that's wild. She's still
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: so fresh. A part of her does admire Land's fortitude,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: but only a part. Right, there's such a stubborn again,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: it's so Taming of the Shrew. It's there's such a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: will they won't they, But it's completely platonic because they're
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: trying to meet the other one bend first. It's a
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: staring contest that ends in mutual respect, but it starts
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: out so antagonistic.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Like a wrestling contest that they both like survive, you know,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: like they're fighting each other. Whatever the contest is, they're
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: fighting each other, and they're they've hit this almost stalemate
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: that leads her respect.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Everyone else falls away quickly in the competition, and then
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: it's just down to this one other person and just
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: can't quite figure out how they're still putting up with you.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Next thing I have is them meeting with Mistress Sahara.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Finally, it takes her a while, but she finally gets there, and.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: She's going to open an inn called the and call
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: it the White Tower because it's based on.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Them, because she got the bounty. And it's like and
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: as she's putting this sign up and Morain asks a
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: pointed question, she's like, oh, you think the sisters might mind? Nah,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: it'll be fine. It's like, I I think they might mind.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: I think they might mind.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think this is gonna go well for
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: your busines, since she should have called it like the
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Shining Walls or something, you know, there were other names.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: And then there's this line here he says, by the
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: scale the Tower on the sign would have had to
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: be over one thousand feet high, so she's putting the
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: tower next to I think the inn itself. It was
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: my understanding. I'm not really sure what the scale the
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: tower is being compared to.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I am assuming because there's not a good description. I'm
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: assuming that it is the same size as like Dragonmount
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: or something. Right Like, it's like, there's Dragonount in the
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: background and then there's this giant white tower with this
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: tiny little town at the foot of it. That's like, no, nope,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: that is not the relative proportions.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: So I think the reason this line is in here
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: is because I think Jordan actually saw a fan art
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: that portrayed the White Tower as really really big and
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: was commenting on it because he's like, no, that's ridiculous, Like,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: it is a big tower, but it is not the
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: size of Dragonmount.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I love the idea that he was addressing ridiculous fan
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: art and was like, I love your enthusiasm, but no,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: but no, it's not that big. No, it's huge, it's impressive,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: it's not that big.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: How tall is the White Tower.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: One hundred spans? I have no idea what a span is.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: It sounds like a yard to me, but I don't
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: know if that's true.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Let's see, and.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: If a span is a yard, then that would be
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: three hundred feet, significantly less than a thousand.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: The tower structure is a bone white spire nearly one
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: hundred spans around six hundred feet or one hundred and
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: eighty three meters.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so significantly under a thousand.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: So here he says a thousand feet. Interesting he uses
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: his feet here instead of spans. It's you know what,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: it's six hundred feet, six hundred to one thousand. I mean, yeah,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: it's sixty percent. It's that's an overestimate, but not that much.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know, to scale, that doesn't seem crazy
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: to double its height on the sign.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in my mind, it's like observe like a multiplier
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: of a thousand too tall, Like in my mind, what
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: a thousand times too tall? Yeah, in my mind, I'm
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: picturing that something that's just impossibly like like a mile high,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: just absolutely like not happening.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: But like she's she's complaining about a thousand feet and
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: it's only it's six hundred feet.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: It's you know, a four hundred foot difference doesn't seem
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: like the thing to quibble over.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: No, it really doesn't insign.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was expecting something more like, oh, it's ten
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: times the wrong thing, not four hundred feet out of.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, not like two x.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: All right, Marie, that feels a little inconsistent.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: I just thought that line stood out, and I think
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: it might just but I do think that is Robert
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Jordan addressing the fandom art because if you look at
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: some of those wet tires towers, they are absurdly high.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: It's like the city and then this is like dragon
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: mount tower sticking out of the middle of it. Yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I've seen this picture mentally, and it's
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: probably in the White book, right, you know.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: The big white book about art. Yeah, And as always,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: it's not the artist's fault. He was given an absurd
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: deadline and I was tired not to just do the
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: black and white illustrations, and then the last minute they
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: hired him to do a bunch of color paintings when
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: didn't give them time to actually get it right. So
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: don't blame the artist.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, there's our rush jobs from the sketches. They were
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: not originally intended to be. That was it. That was
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: a sketch version all caveats to the artists.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, this is where we blame Red Eagle Entertainment, And
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons why we hate Red Eagle Entertainment
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: is for stuff like that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Red Eagle just needs to fly into the damp sun.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, this woman does not have a child. That's
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: even remotely correct for the search. But she is doing
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: what I think we should see more of people doing,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: which is changing the family fortunes based on this bounty, right,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: starting up an inn and being like, I'm going to
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: be a successful, prosperous business owner and raise my child
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: in a better financial state because of the White Tower,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: and like, my child will be raised knowing that, like
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: the reason why everything was nicer after they were born
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: is because the White Tower gave us money. Right, that's
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: what is supposed to be happening, as like the white
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: noise that hides the real signal of finding the dragon reborn.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: And then in the next scene, ta Vere and Rand
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: reaches back through time to save Land's life.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Rand needs Land so bad that, as an infant across
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: thousands of.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Miles, taverin all right, because this is Yeah, we see
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Rand do a couple of times which just turn at
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: the last minute and get struck by an arrow and
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: the shoulder instead of through the heart, which is where
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: it would have taken him.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And it's not like he does it randomly. He does
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: it because more Rain specifically is pranking him and wants
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: to check if he has a wasp allergy before she
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: stinks with the loss because she just wants to irritate him,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: not kill him, and by doing so, by irritating him
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: instead of wanting to kill him, she saves him from
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: getting one shotted because he would have gotten one shotted right.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: The guy was aiming straight for his heart because he
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: knew that Land was so dangerous, et cetera, et cetera, and.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Land didn't react. There was no blocking of it. It
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: was just a coincidence that Loraine asked him the right
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: question at the right time and he turned. And that's
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: not the only time that happens in this story where
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: a character ducks or moves at just the right time.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: And oh, it.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Happens so often because luck is such an integral part
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: of how the plot works in these books. But you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Reid looks over at Land and goes, yeah, that's lucky.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: The assassin says Damn, I knew you were lucky, but
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: how are you this lucky? Right? Land is tevernifide sometimes.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: But then there's another layer on top of that, which
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: is this book is all about lucky men, right, the
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: whole point of all of these deaths and everything, and
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: what we'll see later with the in the Palace, that
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: all happens because men who can channel have a reputation
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: for being lucky. So to take out the Dragon Reborn,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: you kill men who have a reputation for being lucky.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: And hopes that you take out the Dragon Reborn in
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: one of his early like just figuring out his power
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: before he's really any good, he's just being lucky. And
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: so Land here being lucky is actually really interesting because
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: it kind of sets him up as a target for
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: the Black Aujaw.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Right, but you know, jokes on them. He's not the
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Dragon Reborn. He's the mentor right of the Dragon Reborn,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: the sword mentor of the Dragon Reborn, a man who
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: is in many ways like his stepdad, right, because of
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: the Moraine and Ninive connection. Right, He's a very important
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: person to how Rand was able to navigate the end
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: of days, And you know, he's essentially part of the
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: last gasp of I was raised better this time, right,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Land is part of that.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: She's also kind of his ant in law, right the whole, Elaine.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, but yeah, Moraine and Land being
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: a force of nature that helps Rand means that they
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: have to have this moment where Moraine's childishness and prank
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: proneness as a vehicle for the pattern to protect Land
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: from the fact that people are trying to assassinate him
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: because lots of different reasons, including appearing lucky. It's all
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: very circular.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: It's like a wheel of time. Meanwhile, Moraine is coming
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: allful close to breaking a bunch of her oaths in
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: this in these chapters right the whole, like she's skirting
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: the truth, holding this assassin immobile to be shot with arrows,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: comes very close to using the power as a weapon.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really curious about how the oths even like
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: would have prevented her from doing that, given how quickly
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: that situation evolved, right.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Well, because it wasn't intention. Yeah, it wasn't her intention
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: to hold him still. If it had been her intention,
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: she couldn't have done.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: It, right, So it's just like, yeah, it's distasteful, but
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: like you didn't technically do it according to the way
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: the oth's interpret your brain.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Like to her mind, it came very near using cidar
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: as a weapon, or making a weapon from end to
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: using killing, very near, as in, she did it, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: if she had intended to do it, she would have
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: been absolutely shut down by the oaths. I think intention
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: is the only thing that saved her from Yeah, why
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: do you think she shields Lamb first.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Because she likes him and wants him for her water.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: She doesn't because he's already her order in her head.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And yet yeah, exactly, She's treating him like her warder.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: She sees him as the most helpful, the most relevant,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: the most intelligent, the most stoic, all of those things.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: He's the assayst likely to be a dark friend.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the asset. She's still not sure if he's
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: a dark friend or not. She still hasn't acknowledge to herself.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: So she wants him for a warder because she's not
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: even sure if he's a dark friend or not. But
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: she hasn't made up her mind yet, and damn it,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: he will not die until she has cast her judgment.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not done with you yet.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Lamb exactly.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: So then there's that like that moment as this guy's
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: call Canadrin he was in chapter one.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot that there was multiple named characters that
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: try to assassinate Land. I thought it was just the one.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I forgot there was two.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: Right, going back to chapter one, w Kama met a
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: marrying a Lance and leading his yellow rone gelding sun Lance,
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: followed by a beardless youth named Canadren who was carefully
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: leading Land's cat dancer. So, I mean, this is a
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: guy who like brought Land his horse. This is someone
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: who you know was absolutely a servant of Land and
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: then betrayed him for money.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Just for money, I mean, and one assumes that it's
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: money with a dark friendury behind it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: But oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: His motivation is not being a dark friend. His motivation
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: is money for once.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's always what's so hard is like, are
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: you trying? Is the person assassinating you a dark friend?
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Being paid by a dark friend, being compelled by a
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: dark friend, being bribed or not bribed? Are you being
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: blackmailed by a dark friend? Right? Like, yeah, there's all
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: sorts of reasons that someone not a dark friend might
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: come after you at the behest of a dark friend,
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: or maybe they just lied to them and told them
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: something that's not true and makes them believe that Land
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: is a bad guy, right.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Right, totally Probably not with this guy because he knew Land.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: But no, we know it was money. Yeah, but so
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: often it's not. And then and by the way, Reese
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: of course was taking him out because he didn't want
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: him to spill any secrets about dark friend y.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Why would he have any coordination with this guy? Not
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: all dark friends know each other. I figured he was
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: just you know, doing his thing as Land's friend who
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: has not yet blown his cover as a dark friend.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: So I think because there's a moment where he goes
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: he's dead already? Can he heal that? And I don't know.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: I guess he probably didn't do anything to make that
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: him die faster.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: No, I do think it's telling that can you heal that?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: He sounded interested in seeing whether she could. I think
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that's an interesting tell given that we know the according
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: to this book, the only motivation that dark friends have
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: is the promise of immortality. So Reese being interested in
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: can you bring someone back from the dead?
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Because I know again you better tell.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know a dark one. I know
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a dark one. I know again who can bring people
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: back from the dead.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I think it would be interesting if Boukama fired a
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: shot to disable and Reese thought fired a shot to kill,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: but they both fired to kill.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Right well, because you don't shoot not to kill, you know.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true. The shooting someone in the leg thing
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: just doesn't realistically ever happen to disable them.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I saw it in a movie it once,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: so I'm pretty sure it works. But yes, uh huh, yeah, No,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: when you hit people in the leg and it disables them,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: it's almost always because a stray bullet ended up doing
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: a good thing for the situation. It's not usually because
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you specifically intended that if you're going to pull the trigger,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to do it to kill. And that's very
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: hard for people to comprehend.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: So Marine thinks it could be this gor Thanis who
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: hired him, which is the person who that she thinks
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: it's related to her being a noble right over in
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Kyrie and Kyriene in plot. Yeah, but we know it's not.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: It's a dark friend, I said, ie hiring somebody to
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: take out do you think one thing about Land or Moraine.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: What do you think who do you think was the target?
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, is he says he some unknown
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: he should have told me she's eyes to die instead
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: of just saying to kill her first. So that does
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: raise the question of is it kill her first because
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: she can protect land, or does it kill her first
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: because she's the real target? Poor Canlo stills.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: I think Land's the target.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: That's always been my thought too, is that in Isadai
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: is interested in Land, therefore he's even more important to
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: take off the board.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Although now that I think about it, does Mirin know
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: that Land that Moraine is looking for these people?
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Yet she's seen Miren in Yeah, the border lands. There
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: was that hole interaction with Kad's fame where she was
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: told that she needed to watch Moraine and that other
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: woman got assigned to die by her hands by being
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: assigned to watch Moraine with her right, So she knows
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that Moraine is up here.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Where are they right now? Because they've they're supposed to
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: be with her right what happened to them? She does
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: she run away? I don't remember.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she ran away. She slipped out in the night
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: and she joined up with the three men because she
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: was trying to not be found after she slipped away
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: from the e to die. So they are presumably on
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: their way to Candlewam, because that's why kat Swain told
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: them to go with Moraine, because oh, you're all going together.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: You're all going together. So presumably Miren is killing that
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: other eyes to die currently one of these days, that
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: one of these six days, that woman is getting killed
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: en route, and the other one, yeah, Miren Redhill, not
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Miren whatever. Landfeir's last name originally was Miarn Redhill. She
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: is on her way to Canlowem. I think she arrives
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: after No, I think she aris before. I don't know
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: when she arrives, but she's going to arrive soon and
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: interact with you know, Prince Maurice and his son. And
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's when she decides that Moraine isn't a coincidence, right,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: One interaction could be a coincidence, but two means that
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: she must be a target. I don't think that Moraine
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: is a target for black Aja assassination there, Yeah, all
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: targeted at Land and then yeah, Mirin Redhill does decide
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: that she's in the way and tries to kill her.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: But I don't think she gets that information out to anybody, right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: She makes that decision and gets assassinated at all within the
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: same day, so the information dies with her.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: They're trying to take out Land because of the whole
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: working with his Why aren't they trying to take out
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Lamb and who's trying to take out See? This is
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: where I think Reese was the one who told them
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: to take out Moraine first, and that's why he should
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: have told me instead of you should have told me.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: But I don't know. I think I think Reese is
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: the one.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: That would also make sense for why he didn't say
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: that she was isesed to die, Because Reese wasn't sure
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: if she was is to die. Is like, I don't
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: know what's going on with her, but kill her first,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: and the assassin's like, I would have taken that more
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: seriously if you called her an eye to die. But
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: because the men haven't decided if she's an is to
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: die or not, Reese didn't communicate that, right, right, I
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: think that does fit. I hadn't thought about that before
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: we got to this recording, But I think that you're right,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Reese is already attempting to get Lang killed at this point.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he I think Reese didn't reveal who
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: he was, so he right, quote in quotes, is just
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: an anonymous man that gave this person money.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Right, Reese is not concerned about being recognized, making sure
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: this guy dies before he says something. He's not worried
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: about it at all. But yeah, it would make sense
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: that Reese was the one that arranged this, albeit through
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: untraceable means.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So and land Fere is mir and Aaron nail
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: e er er nile eronile And I guess you maybe
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: instead of mirror in we could say mirurene like asthmo
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: deine no loga dean.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Fault. It's not our fault. It's not our fault, all right.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: So Moraine loots the body looking for clues, does not
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: find the clues that she wants, although she does learn
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: that the price of her death and candor is the
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: same as the price of a silk dress and tarbalin,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: which is always fun to know how many dresses your
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: life is worth. And then she gets mad at Lamb
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: for being stoic as he gets healed and for not
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: asking for healing, and sort of slaps healing on him
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: very aggressively, and it's just this is land and nine Eve.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: All over totally no, because he's stoic and he's not
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: never going to ask for help.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Never ever. And she's going to be stubbornly angry at him,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: for one, because she wants to help. She desperately wants
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: to help him. She cares about him, she needs him
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: been fighting shape, and she's mad at him for not
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: asking for the very easy healing that is right at
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: her fingertips. He could meet the wasps in perfect health.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: In one of her thoughts, it's like, I'm gonna heal
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: you up so that I can screw with you.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: He did react to the healing, though, he did actually blinked. Yeah,
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: his arms went wide, you know, he did gasp. Oh,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: he did breathe hard. Rather than gasp. He didn't even gasp.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: He jerked and breathed hard. Jesus Christ, what a ridiculous man.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And she's all ready to be, you know, still
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: wasp him up and stuff. And then she proves that
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: she is still a rich horse gurly because he's nice
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: to the horse of the assassin, and she decides that
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: for that he will be allowed to not get stung
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: by wasps and I'm like, you're such a horse girly.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: And that brings us to cha chin And chapter twenty two,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: keeping custom.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: The symbol is a horse, a very flowy horse.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: That's Land's worse. I mean, that's Mandarb, Right's.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not used to seeing this icon either. I love
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: this book for all the unusual icons. They should have
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: used more of these in the rest of.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: The series, right, But yeah, as far as I'm aware,
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: every time this is this is a land icon basically
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: because when all the other chapters is Mandarb, which is
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: interesting because it's clearly not Mandarm yet.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Mandarb is like not even a twinkle in his
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: horsey dad's eye yet.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Horses down, wonder, horses live. It's not that long, right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Like twenty years, so Mandarb is totally not born yet.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm lying this this is the only chapter this
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: is used in the horse icon.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: There's just too many cool icons that were made just
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: for this book, and there's so much boring repetition in
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: the rest of the main series.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Come on, people, Yeah, it's just the title is Warhorse,
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: so it's just his war horse. But I could have
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: sworn that was used more often. In the rest of
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: the series. But you know, according to Encyclopedia Watt, that's
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: is the only chapter that it shows up in.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two explanations. Either you're just wrong or we've
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: completely jumped timelines. And this is clues as to how
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: you're actually the most special boy, and we can have
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: like a whole you know, interdimensional adventure where we actually
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: write the timeline, because you can't just be wrong. That
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: would be boring.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: My brain is not an unreliable piece of meat that
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: might make things up. Absolutely not. No, no, So this
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: is this is a disgusting chapter, right.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is a long chapter, and there is
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of me just going.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: You just absolutely you on the customs, you on the
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: emotional manipulation, you on the things that Land does.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: We do get to see Bulin, which is cool.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, there's a couple of cool references.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: All right. So first of all, I think we should
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: head canon that cat Dancer is Mandarb's dad.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, the black Yeah, I don't.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: See why not. I think that Land should make it
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: a point of having horses from the same line, so
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: that way there's always you know, cool looking and sturdy
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: and you know, all that. I'm just I just think
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: we should head canon that.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Totally fine.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: We get one more mention of bugs that Maureene managed
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: to draw to annoy him.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: Black flies and fleas.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: I don't I'm guessing those are horse flies and fleas.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: So she did skip the wasps, yeah, but she did
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: continue on with insects.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Those blue Ajah weaves are really coming in handy right right.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: So he drops her off.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: Immediately, yeah, and runs like literally gallops away from her,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: like I got you to within a halo effect of
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: legality for the city.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm done.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: We're done.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: I literally will run away towards my abusive rapist because
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: you are that annoying.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: He owed Elise a debt for her healing as well
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: as for her torments, though in honor it was only
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: the first he could repay. Yeah, what does he or
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: for the torments? Like a spanking or yeah, tormenting her back?
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: And he's like, honorably, I cannot torment her back for
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: the torment she inflicted on me.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you could like badly darn her socks or something
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: like there's a way to get back at her.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: That's funny.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I've got this other line from Land here with Land's
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: second best coat bloodstained. He was reduced to wearing his
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: third warn enough to make but Kama seme well dressed.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: So even though he's like a hard and stoic warrior
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: dude who doesn't like comfort, he also is still was
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: raised to fancy. It was such a perception of his
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: station that he does have a third best coat to
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: change into.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean Land is still unnoble, right, Like
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: there's a reason he gave Rand you know, cat crosses
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: the courtyard to go face them. He knows how to
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: look good and he knows what doesn't look good.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which I just tend to not appreciate because we
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: meet him in much more his warder woodsman state, and
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I forget that he actually was a fancy boy to start.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: He didn't start out as a farm boy. He started
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: out as a prince. Even though he was in exile.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. He was still raised with the comforts
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: and expectations of appearance, says that go along with that status.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Even though yeah, you're supposed to get scarred and go
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: into battle and whatever, you're also supposed to know which
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: fork to use at dinner.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: And again that's why he and Marine get along so well,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: because it's important to her that she has someone who
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: can present himself as not a farmer.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Right, if she needs to go incognito in higher society,
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: he can do that too. So yeah, Land basically says,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: do you know who I am? At the gate? And
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: that's enough to get him in because people know him.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know if girod Shiman ever shows up again.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: That named didn't ring a bell.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: I was just looking him up. No, he does not
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: come up again. Okay, so just some dude who wrote
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: rode with Land in the past, right, That's the whole
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: point is like they rode together. So he recognizes him,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: he can identify him.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he immediately gets handed off to the
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: chateayan of the estate, so he knows not only do
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: people know him here, not only is he able to
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: just walk in on the strength of his face, he's
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: also being king treatment and he's thinking he was swimming
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: in a sea of other people's expectations, which I think
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: is really encapsulates what he's dealing with is that he's
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: not having any agency for himself. And that's kind of
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: what Moraine offers is here's a chance for you to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: choose something of your own. Granted it's saving the world
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: as my assistant, but still it's at least not your birthright.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: It's something you choose.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: And you can't go into a palace without having us
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: meet the mistress who runs it, the lady whatever title
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: she's going to get given. Like, I don't know why
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: Jordan always wants to introduce us to the lady who's
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: in charge of the maids, or in charge of the palace,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: or in charge of like the house stead or the
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: in the iel, it's the women who are in charge
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: of the hold, the old mistresses.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: He likes a strong woman being in charge of the household.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: And also it's one of the most important characters in
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: a show like say Downton Abbey or its predecessor upstairs downstairs, right, Like,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: it's an important character if you want to flesh out
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: who surrounds the nobles. The head housekeeper and head butler
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: are really important archetypes to fill with a personality.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: Like Master Nori and that group. Yeah, mister tarfor heh exactly.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Jordan likes it because it's a very convenient person to
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: put a lot of exposition on.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: And then I have a question about Rain. He went
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: along to see bocamm and Rain's rooms and expresses delight
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: in them to Mistress Romera. Not because he expected them
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: to be given anything unsuitable, because it was necessary, That
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: is he to his men. Before himself, Rain wore a
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: sour expression, but surely he had not expected better than this.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's he's sour about the room.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think he's sour about the failed assassination attempt.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Is that what you think?
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's the room. I hadn't thought about
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: the assassination attempt being his effort before you pointed it
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: out a few minutes ago. But I've never thought it
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: was the room. I always thought it was something else
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: about how stuff is going down. I just didn't know what.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: But it's not the room. Rain's got other stuff going on.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: It's not the room. But now that you pointed out
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: that he probably arranged the assassination attempt, I assume it's own,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: because probably he was trying to keep Land from getting here, right,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: And so now his face is sour because he's failed, right,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: like Land has crossed the finish line. The next attempt
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: to divert this trajectory has to be set at a
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: totally different point in the timeline of the events.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: Right, because later Land thinks perhaps had been the thought
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: of appearing in traveled stained garb in front of the
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Shatayenne and the serving woman that had soured him, And
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no, it's got to be something with
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: dark friendery.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he is presented as a vain person who
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: cares how he looks. But yeah, I know how he
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: appears in front of servants when he's active in the
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: middle of doing dark friendery things. No, it's the dark
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: friendery stuff, not the servants, that are making him somewhere.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: And the only dark friendery stuff that's failed is the
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: assassination attempt at this point, right.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: And he's probably thinking about, crap, Now I have to
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: figure out a whole new plan, and I have to
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: pull it off in way tighter circumstances on a way
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: tighter timeline, et cetera, et cetera. He's sour about having
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: to reshuffle plans to do with assassinating you dude. So
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: then yeah, Land goes through this whole dressing and bathing montage,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: getting the news about who's in the city from the
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: serving women it's got a lot of Rand getting the
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Prince king treatment, but also it's got a lot of
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Elane just accepting it.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Rand is very weirded out by it, whereas Eline accepted
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: us for do. Lane is weirded out by it for
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: reasons very different from Rand. Right. Lane is weirded out
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: by it because of the implications. But he knows how
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: to just accept it as like a physical dance that
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: you do because he's experienced it for years.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Because at this point, I feel like this area who's
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: in charge of this his lover, right, this woman who
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: he's going to, So they're they're acknowledging him as her consort,
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: lover whatever. Land Man Dragar in the Golden Crane. He
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to be any of that.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: A sea of other people's expectations, Oh, you're coming here
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: to pair up with her, to raise the Golden Crane,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: to take my care back. He's like, I am literally
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: here to do none of those things.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: And this is where we meet Bulin. Yeah, he acquired
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: two square face serving women and a young, lanky fellow
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: named Bulin to run Errands who gapped at Land's helmet
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: and breast, and so yeah, this is bullin coming full circle.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when Bulen says, don't you remember me? I was there,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I helped you with your gear, and Lane's like, oh yeah,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: that really traumatizing weekend when a bunch of stuff happened
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: in my entire life and career trajectory completely changed and
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: my sense of my life's purpose was completely reworked. Yeah,
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: I remember you, random child that was impressed by my armor.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: And then like, he doesn't come back until Towers of Midnight, Right,
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: So even though this was written by Jordan, he's really not.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: This Bulen kid isn't really used until Sanderson comes in
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: and references this.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Sanderson wanted to find someone who was relevant to Lance past,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: and there were very few people who were named that
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: were relevant to Lance past. So hey, who's a random
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: kid in New Spring that we can pull forward as
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: being of an age to need that father figure role
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: from Lan etc. Etc. Like, there's really not a lot
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: of names in the existing Canada pick from, so it's
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: find someone Jordan made or make someone up. And for once,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: he actually made something out of a Jordan character. That's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: not fair. It's not for once, but you know what I.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: Mean, Yes, he did it many times, but yeah, I
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: mean andrel exactly.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I'm still mad about that. Lann puts on some blood
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: roses for loss and remembrance is his aesthetic, and thinks
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: about how he needs to have his meetings with Aiden
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: it be public. He's like, I can't be alone with
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: this woman because she will control everything. And on the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: page it's because a man's advantage all goes to his
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: carnaira in private. But there's more to it than that.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: The way that I read this, he just doesn't want
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: to be alone with her because, you know, all the reasons,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: not just the custom ones.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: It smacks a little bit of the seafolk marriage custom
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: where the public private thing are reversed. But it's not that.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: But there's a certain amount of light.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Is that kind of like that?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Exactly?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And clearly he doesn't mind it when it's ninive,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, she summons him, he refuses, she
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: double summons him.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: And and does this not sound like Tyland come to me, sweetly,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: come to me now?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Well, there's just might as well sign it pink ribbons, right.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Exactly, like this is this is the matter. As much
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: as I compare Land to Rand all the time, this
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: is very Mattke situation for land.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he's locking himself in his room and ignoring
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: the older woman who wants to assault and manipulate him sexually.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: And then he gets taken to a group dinner where
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: he can schmooze with people. And the people in question
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: are people who have decided to remember malk Here, right,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: men and women who have not remembered malk Here until
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: it became the hot, new trendy thing to do. And
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: he has very mixed emotions about that. On the one hand,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: they haven't held true. On the other hand, the fact
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: that they're coming back to the movement now means something, right.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: This is the promise that's being held out in front
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: of him for his whole life up until now, is
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: someday you could get these people to come back to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: malch Here and follow you. And he doesn't want to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: do it, but he wants to do it. So he's
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: walking into a room full of people who want him
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: And we get a little information about this sort of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: royal family. Right, So this royal family is the center
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: of the plot that's going on here.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: And only Ethnel is still alive in the present day.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: She's still alive. She's one of the right, she's one
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: of the Borderlander monarchs who does the rand slapping thing.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: Is that the same Ethanella?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which I really hadn't thought about until this read.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Ethanol's grandson joins Land on his ride to Tarwin's gap Kaisel.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So every time that we see Ethnel in all
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: those scenes where they're getting together to do the pact
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: to go slap, brand.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Man has a viewing over that she's gonna get married.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Right. This is her husband here, right, she's been widowed
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: since this book. And then yeah, Tanobia tries to set
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: her up to get married to one of her uncles,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: and it seems like that's gonna happen. Like I just
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: hadn't noticed that until reading this book in a podcast brain.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: But it's like, oh, like she's sad about her husband
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: twenty years later and is only just starting to get
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: set up with another guy. This is her husband. This
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: is the man who dies tragically with their son when
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Land vanishes from being Land. You know, like there's a
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: lot of actual new Spring trauma wrapped up in her
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: story that I just was not thinking about when we
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: were reading her chunks earlier in the show.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: No. No, I completely forgot that she was in New Spring.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: I didn't had that any of this relationship. And I mean,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: and the whole reason this happens, right, is because of
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: she has a lucky kid, right, he fell fifty feet
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: fifty feet without breaking a bone.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Which is pretty lucky, pretty gosh darn lucky.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, lucky's one way to say it. Unrealistic is another.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: It has happened. But yeah, this is the kind of
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: thing that usually is. Oh, you can tell rand is
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: in the city because kids are falling fifty feet and
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: getting up without a bruise or without a broken bone.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: This kid has bruises. But yeah, it's like there's a
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: tavern in town.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: Also interesting note Encyclopedia watt Aiden's maiden name fair Heart.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: Do you know any in Malchieri's name Fairheart?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, that that dude, that's the that's the that's
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: the black, that's the dark goja.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: There's a dark Friend's a dark friend Koran Fairheart.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Who Jane forest Rider Jane Farrestryder, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Jane first Rider brought him to justice. You stopped him.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: And that's how he became a hero, is by bringing
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: that man to justice.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: She's a fair heart, yeap? Where is that information? That
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: must be from like the companion or something, because that's
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: not here.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Uh. Corwin's fairheart real name is Corwin Gamalin g e
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: m A l l a n. Aiden's maiden name is
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Edwin T germalin er l ah. So the gamel g
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: E m A l l a n versus.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: E n Okay, So yeah, fair heart was his moniker,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: not the family name.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: Not the family name.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: It's not a fair heart. She is related to that
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: guy because there's a name.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: And and and then the name does have a slight
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: one avowal difference, so maybe not.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: No, it's the same. It's the same.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: But we're gonna we're gonna headcanon that she's related to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: a dark friend and probably is a dark friend.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was assuming it wasn't that she was a
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: dark friend, but just that she was from the kind
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: of family who would produce dark friend minded people. Not
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: necessarily that she was that, but.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Just what you don't think she's a dark friend?
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Is she confirmed to be a dark friend now? I
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: was just thought that she was like super ambitious and
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: ended up flying too close to the son. I never
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: got the impression she was a dark friend.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: I you know, you're right. I've kind of always assumed
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: she was in on the plot. But no, you're right,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: they're totally unrelated. My my head canon around new Spring
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: is really bad. Is what I'm learning is I made
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of assumptions about new Spring that I'm like, oh, hey,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: I really need to read these books, this book closer.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my impression was always that she just came from
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: an ambitious family full of snakes and one of them
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: went full dark friend. But that doesn't mean that she
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: was too.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I kind of put, you know, weird rapists dark
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: friend in the same group.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: But Tyland wasn't a dark friend.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: No, you're right, And a family full of snakes would
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: assume they're all dark friends. But like, it's actually worse
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: when actually some of them just suck.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: But yeah, here she says, I Edwin t Gamalin Arl,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: so the Gamalin gotcha?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Gotcha?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: And then here's a quote I wanted to ask you about.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: So they're all the Golden Crye the Golden Crane. Candor
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: rides with Malkire the sound freedom to pull his hands
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: loose to lift her to their feet. My lady, he
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: said quietly in a tight voice. There is no King
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: of Malchierre. The great Lords. First of all have not
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: cast the rods. Second of all, when have we heard
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: about the rods before the rods Dominion? And obviously weird
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: that he says the great lords when the Great Lord
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: is the dark one.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Weird. High lords would have made a lot more sense,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: or the great houses.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: Right, something like that. The Great Lords is like a
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: little of closest saying the Great Lord, which we all
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: know is like you hear someone say the Great Lord.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: You know they're a dark friend, right, that is a
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: only dark friends ever say the Great Lord? Like that's like,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: what's yeah, it's weird. It's just a weird sentence, right,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: And then the rods the rods what.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Like I'm guessing at some sort of age of legend's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: anachronistic sense of like how you pass power, Oh, you
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: need to have the rods, Like first it was the
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: nine Rods of Dominion, then it was just the Rods
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: of Dominion. That it was just the rods kind of deal.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: You know, It's like the Stone of Skan or whatever,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: except I guess more symbolic and less of a literal rock.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: And this clearly has to be a way that they
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: elect or decide. You know, the great lords have to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: be people of the borderlanders who have cast the rods.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: What I assume is, you know that's electing.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm assume he's like a ballot or something, right,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: like you know, vote yay or nay, cast white or black,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: some kind of deal.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I can't find anything online about it, so I'd
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: love to hear what people's opinions of that are. But
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: if it's related to the great the nine Rods of Dominion.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine what else it would be. And yeah,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: she says, well, there's five people that are relevant for
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: doing that, and three of them are here, so I've
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: got a quorum deal with it.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure who they would be, but I mean
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: they must be the great lords. She's got three of
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: them there. Don't know who those people are.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing that there are other men like him who
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: carry the ancestral right to be a great lord but
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: were smuggled out of dying molk Here as children and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: so they were able to grow up and live in
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: other lands.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: But she says they're in this room, Like who's in
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: this room? Is it?
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Like a bunch of people. Right, he walks in and
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: landsaw men in long coats wearing the Hadori, men he
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: knew had not worn it these ten years or more.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Women with hair soil cut at the shoulders and higher
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: wore the Kai sign like this is an event. This
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: is a soiree. This is a schmooze fest, got it.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: All the fancy people are here to witness her doing
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: that fiealty thing. Right, this is a big piece of
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: theater for her to show everyone. I'm swearing to him,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: we're raising the golden crane and force him to not
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: be able to get out of it. And here he
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: thought that being in public would be safer for him,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: but instead she was trying to summon him to a
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: private conversation so she could warn him. This is what
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: she was going to do, and that's why she's like,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: this would have been easier if you'd come to me
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: in private. I wouldn't have had to hit you with
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: this out of nowhere in public. But there you go,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: And yeah, she basically says, deal with it. The wheel
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: weaves is the wheel wills, except not the wheel me.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: I weave as I will. And then bris comes over
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: and sort of helps Land escape the crowd and they
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: go off to the balcony where all the shit will
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: go down later. Yeah, it's a private place where no
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: one can see, and he's known to want to go
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: to get away and have a private moment, so it's
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: perfect for assassinating him later, But for now, it's just
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: a great place for Land to have a quiet moment
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: to talk.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I know she's nailed you into a box. I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: know you would never choose for yourself. Yeah, I didn't realize.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: Bris rescued him, drawing off to a long stone railed
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: walk above a two hundred foot drop to the roofs below.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Good foreshadowing four times as far as what his son
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: just survived falling right, His son just had this miraculous
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: fall of fifty feet and now we're looking at two hundred,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: So that's a deadlier environment. Even his little fifty foot
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: bouncy ball child energy is not going to save him
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: if he's held out over this.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: Kind of shitty. You survive one fall one day, only
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: to be dropped off a bigger one the next.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: It does suck. That kid has a rough couple of
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: last days.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: There's a story about a woman pretending to isid I.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: The woman could channel, but that did her no good.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: They flogged her squealing. Couldn't find any connection about that.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: There is a story that Suwan describes about Morrel finding
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: a woman masquerading his greenaw John Chension, but it's not
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: the right location and not the right time. Morel is
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: not a sister yet.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is just a thing that happens
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: sometimes because the isid Ie are so bad at being
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: out in the world that sometimes women who can channel
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: like think they can get away with it. And unfortunately
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: for all those women, there's a lot of is to
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: die roaming the wilds right now. And yes they're looking
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: for the dragon reborn. Yes they're looking to kill each other,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: but they will make your life miserable if they happen
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: across you in the course of those other missions. And
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: it makes Lane think about how he kind of hopes
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: the lady Alice wasn't lying, because it would suck if
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: she got abused like that. Like she's kind of in
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: the back of his head, right, He's always there on
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: the corner. He's trying to focus on what's in front
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: of him. But every now and then she kind of
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: creeps in and he wonders how she's doing and what's
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: up with her, and hoping that she's not going to
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: get you know, flogged by realize that I And then
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: he goes to his room and Aiden is there, and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: we just have a deeply uncomfortable conversation where she's gross
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: and he is on the receiving end of her being gross.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: I will say that they also before he lays Britain
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: and him talk about a man who could channel like
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: rumors about that, which again I think is just the
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: black Aja hunting for him.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Agreed.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, the woman tries to get him to
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: marry her daughter.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. First she makes gross references to how great his
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: hands are, and then she says, by the way, you
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: should deflower and marry my daughter, which what.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: Since I've married, since I deflowered you, you should deflower
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: my daughter. We want to pass those skills down through
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: the generations.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: What.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And while we while you think about that, let's
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: fuck you great. Okay, First of all, you shouldn't be
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: coming on to him at all, because that's six years
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: in the past and it was rapeus hell. But also
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: like after telling him that you want him to marry
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: her virgin daughter.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Like no combine with just like she clearly has social
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: power over him, right this like having the lock of
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: his hair having like whatever you know, they don't really
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: spell it exactly what power she has over him. But
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: when she's alone with him, he is no king, right
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: Like she gets to tell him what to do in privacy.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's this at this moment where she he's
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: reflecting on the hair, right, it's the coil of his hair.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: It's it's his virginity symbol or whatever he can recall
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: when she takes him down into into this public area
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: and like tells everyone what she's doing and what it symbolizes.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: And the women had all been amused making jokes as
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: he sat at her feet to weave it. Like, it's
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: just the whole thing has so much like weird. It's
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: not like a humiliation ritual unless you look at it
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: as assault, but it's a very weird public thing. There's
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: just so much, so much of what Land lives in
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: is a gilded cage that is just made of glass,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: right Like he lives in this fish bowl prison where
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: everything he does is known and calculated and factored into.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: It's very kyrie in in a lot of ways. He's
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: also a bit of a celebrity, right, Like he's being watched.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: Everything he does is being watched and commented on, and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: like celebrity engagements and marriages and arranged stuff, and like
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: it's just everybody has an opinion about his relationships.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: And everyone knew when he lost his virginity. Like, how
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: is this different from being an actress having people counting
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: down into your eighteenth birthday? Right? Like, how is this
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: really that different? Right? This is the same kind of
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: like my personal life and maturity is everyone else's speculation
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: and business?
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: And how much of that is intentional? Right? How much
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: of that is? Is Jordan commenting on you know, let's
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: gender flip it and talk about what happens to women
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: in power and the way they were used and manipulated
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: and sexually abused and controlled by the people around them
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: who society tells them have power for them.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: And how much of it is a oh, well, it's
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: cool when men get lucky that way. How much of
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: it is that? How much of it is, Oh, it's
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: a gender flip, but it's cool because.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't see it that way, in the
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: same way that I don't see Matt's interaction as cool,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: because the men are traumatized afterwards, and it's very clearly
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: on the page that the men are not okay with this,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: And so as much as even people are like, oh,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: Matt's thing is written for a joke, it's not.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but people still argue about it. And I'm very
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: curious how many people are going to come back to
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: us from these episodes and say nah ah ah.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: Because it's played as a joke by the people around them.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: But when you look at the response of the people
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: who experience it, they are traumatized and that is on
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: the page, but.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: The fandom will argue about it. So I'm just I
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: wonder how much RJ. Knew what he was writing, and
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: how much he meant for it to be funny, and
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: how much he meant for it to be provocative, and
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: how much is people bringing their own interpretations to it.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: It's the same thing of like when you have you know,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: a villain on page, it doesn't mean the person who's
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: writing the villain supports has the same opinions as the villain.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: Matter of fact, because the villain, you would say, the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: author is setting them up as a straw man to
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: knock back down again, right, Like in the same way,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: I feel like he's showing us that, yes, other people
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: think this is funny and ridiculous, but it's still not okay.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just sometimes wonder. RJ wrote a lot of
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: things that he didn't realize he was writing.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: He wrote good lesbian Relationships that he says aren't lesbian relationships.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: He wrote Trauma where he claims, oh, that wasn't trauma.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: So I just I just wonder what he intended versus
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: what we're interpreting out of it.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: Sometimes, also what he intended versus what he said out
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: loud because of the era in which he was writing
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: these books and whether or not they were meant to
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: be lesbians, and whether that was just not something he
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: could say out loud and so he had to deny it. Also,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: same thing with Sanderson. I ignore a lot of the shit
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: he says, because you know what, if it's in the page,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: I can interpret it. If it's just something you say,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: I don't understand the context. I don't understand the question
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: you were answering. I don't understand if you're just having
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: a bad day. The stuff didn't go through editing it
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: didn't go through approval right, Like the word of the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: author is not as important to me as what's on
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: the page, because the author can be wrong.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, I know, I have left for
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: the rest of the chapters that completely ignoring his desire
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: to talk, completely ignoring his desire to run away, completely
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: ignoring his desire to not marry her daughter. She insists
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: on sleeping with him, and he's like, yeah, I guess
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: we'll do that now, and then the chapter ends.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: Smash to black, and I do mean smash, yeah.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Like hulk smash Hulk not entertained smash.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Chapter twenty three, Chapter.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: Twenty three, fourth and final chapter for today.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: The evening Star and the symbol is Swan's fish.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: This is finally a you read in.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, finally, Maren allowed herself a small smile as Land's
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: friends galloped after him. If he wanted to be away
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: from her so quickly, then she had made some impression.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: A deeper one had to wait. So he thought she
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: needed to avoid the rougher parts of Chachin. Did he
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: the way she handled those bandits should have taught him better.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Putting him out of her mind, she went in search
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: of exactly those rougher quarders. When she and Swan had
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: been allowed to trip into Tarvala and as accepted, the
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: common room Swan liked to visit were always in that
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: sort of area. Their food and wine were cheap, and
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: they were unlikely to be frequented by eyes Tode, who
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: would surely have disapproved of accepted having a cup of
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: wine in such a place. Besides, Swan said she felt
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: more comfortable in those inns than at the better establishments,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: more would have preferred to eat. Besides type visit as
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Swan was, she certainly would have sought out a room
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: at the cheapest inn to be found. Okay, two notes.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: You don't get to start two back to back sentences
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: with besides comma, that's just lazy writing and needs better editing. Secondly,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: I love that Swan prefers dive bars.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: Of course she does.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, of course she does. Of course. Moraine is
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: like it doesn't have a white tablecloth, and Swan's like,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: I need the floor to be sticky.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: That's also a class thing, right, like from where they
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: come from.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, big time. Oh yeah, no, that's not a personal preferencing.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: That's a class thing for sure. She grew up in
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: and around dive bars, so that's where she's comfortable.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: Well, and I love where they finally end up. Moraine's like, oh,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: this isn't as shitty as I thought it would be,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: Like she checks all the shittiest bars first, and like
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: she's going to these places where she's getting robbed and
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: like trying to rob her. They're trying to like kidnap her.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: They're trying to like scammer over and over and over again.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: And she's like, oh, these these are the places that
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: I would expect to find su On in. And then
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: when Suon actually leads her back to the place where
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: she staying, it's a perfectly nice you know that isn't
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: trying to do any of those things.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: Right, because first of all, Swan doesn't actually have that
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: ridiculous of standards, and second of all, she was trying
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: to find a place where she thought Morain would look
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: for her. She was putting the difference between their two
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: preferences in the hopes that that's where Moraine would look right.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: Right, right, So they both overestimate each other. So Swan's
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: saying it a much nicer end than she normally would,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: and Moraine's looking at much dirtier ends than Suan would
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: ever stay at. They're such a silly couple, definitely. So yeah,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: I mean I don't have a whole lot to say
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: about the montage where she's going to all the various
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: you know, we got some cool in names, the Ruffled Goose,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: the Blind Pig, the silver Penny.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: They're good names. Yeah. Those two notable incidents. One where
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: she keeps her horse from getting stolen, which happens multiple times.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: But there's one written scene of her using air hopples
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: and a ward basically you know, put an alarm on
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: her car. You know, she locks her car where she
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: goes into the thing. And then the more interesting incident
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: is when a woman tries to drug her for you know,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: unspeakable crimes.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: And then she uses compulsion on her.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: She uses a blue Aja weave that definitely is one
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: of those chunks that Varren uses to reverse engineer how
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: compulsion works. The blue Aja has one of those pieces
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: in their arsenal. It's just the fear manipulation part. It's
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: almost like what the Aschaman do with creating the like
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: anticipation scariness.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: We've sure sure.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: It's manipulating, just the fear based part of the brain
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: rather than all the emotions. But it's enough to convince
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: the woman to drink most of the beverage herself before
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: the spell kind of snaps and she gets her own
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: agency back. But by then she's already ingested enough of
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: the drug that she ends up like passing. She like
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: roofies herself right in the room, and then everyone who
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to get in on some unspeakable brutality leaves,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: including Moraine. And it's just like, did this woman just
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: get gang rapes to death? Because Moraine didn't want to
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: get poisoned? Like you need to have at least one
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: sentence of guilt about that, Moraine, at least one, Like
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: there is a justice system and that was not it, Like, yeah,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: she was probably trafficking sex slaves, but like you need
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: to feel slightly more torn up about what you just
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: walked away from, Like, oh my god, that's dark.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: She had a sense, she definitely thought about it. Sometimes
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: justice came from other than laws or sports justice.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: I disagree about that being justice. There is a better
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: way to handle that than to just be like and
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: then I just I don't know from a woman who
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: was like we could capture these bandits and take them
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: to the nearest magistrate. You'd think she would have done
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: something different here, but whatever, I guess. Human traffickers deserve
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: no mercy. I don't need to defend this woman not
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: being human t graphics to death.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: And throughout this whole incident, Moraine is using channeling constantly. Right,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: She's putting fear into the men to call them to
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: run away. She's beating a woman on her backside, she's
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: forcing a woman to drink her own poison. And the
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: entire time she's like, well, good thing, I don't have
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: to reveal myself as an isid. Eye everybody knows. Every
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: single person she encounters knows as an. I said, eye
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: walking through town looking for a woman blue eyed Taran
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: at an inn, every single person she encounters. She's doing
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: a terrible, terrible job of covering it up. And every
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: time she encounters one of these incidents, she's like, well,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: at least they didn't figure out I was. I said,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: I what are you talking about?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: Well, she didn't wear her ring and loudly announced she
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: was I to die. So she's basically invisible, Like I know,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: she is so twenty two, she's so twenty two.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: Like I was trying to figure out the point of
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: this like series of incidents. I was like, what's going on?
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: And then I think, to me, it's literally being like, yeah,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: she has no idea how to hide being an I
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: sid I and she's in a rough part of town
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: and just showing off that she's I sid I over
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: and over and over again to these people, at least
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: a woman who can channel yeah right, right right, which
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: everyone think everyone assumes is I said I because that's
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: just the world we're in, where if you can channel
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: your I sid I right. Even the guy she kills, right,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: they didn't tell me she was I sid I because
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: she channel channel Yeah.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's she thinks she's being subtle because the plubs
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: are too stupid to notice a fancy girl doing magic. Like,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: come on, come on and give her a few years
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: on the road, she won't be this ridiculous. But yeah,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: she is the most twenty two a person has ever been.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: Another time, a half dozen young men who thought they
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: could ignore her until she sent them leaping and yelping
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: their way down the street under a flurry of air
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: woven switches, public street. Six men being beaten by air no,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: I should I anywhere around here.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: They just ran away from her because she was so stern,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: and they respected her dress. You know, they really respect
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: you when you get that a line empire waste, you know,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: like that's how they know to leave you alone. That's
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: how they know you mean business.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so then she encounters Suan next thing I have.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: They go to a perfectly respectable hotel.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: Remind me again, why is Suon in chan Chin? Because
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: they met up earlier, she paid gave the message about
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: all the women dying.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: I think they were going to each go check somewhere
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: names and meet up again and chatchin. I forget why
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: we just read this a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: I know, I know, I just I do feel like
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: the New Spring book is very much like and this
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: happened because it had to happen, And it doesn't establish
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: causality as much like it mentions it. But it doesn't really.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know why characters necessarily in the places they
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: need they're in. But that's probably also my reading skills
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: being pretty poor, dude. I find I'm struggling with the
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: New Spring a lot, just with the descriptions and remembering
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: everything that's happening, is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: They just agreed to meet up in.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: Chatchin, Okay, just like the next place they're gonna meet.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just read through it, and yeah, they agree
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: to each go check a different name on the way
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: to Chochin and to meet up there because they have
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: the Katswain thing to negotiate around. So that's why they
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: can't go together.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: Got it? Okay? Godswain throwing a wrench a spanner in.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: The wrench basically basically the spanner.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: Wait, a spanner in the gear. How what is that saying?
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, sticking the spokes works.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll that'll do it. That'll do.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: That'll do. Let's see. So Swan is doing good since
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: the trip. What have you learned? A great deal and nothing?
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: She makes the excellent argument. Swan makes the excellent argument
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: that the creator made people to walk or go buy
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: a boat, not be bounced around by a horse.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: Because the Creator made boats and not horses.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: I'm personally of the opinion that the Creator intended for
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: us to stay on land, otherwise he would have given us.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: Gills and flippers and wings. Yeah.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just like, we're not supposed to go on boats. Swan,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: horses are way more natural and logical than boats. Boats
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: are the real enemy. But that's just me. I'm a
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: land lover. So yeah, they kind of talk about oh right,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: and so this is why everything escalates, right, because Swan
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: has come to find the lady Ennes who is in
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: the a Steicher palace. And you can't just wander into
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: the palace and ask women about their babies. And so
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: Swan's kind of like, I'm stuck on this one. I
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: don't know how to get in, and Moreene says, well,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: I got the nobility cards, so I guess we can
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: play that.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: We're gonna go get some dresses and get dressed up
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: and go into the palace. Yeah.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll have the subterfuge where they can go in
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: with the lady and her servants, et cetera, et cetera,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: et cetera. And that is why Moraine is in the
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: tower to run into land and bring the conclusion of
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: the book about the way it does.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: We get another lucky young man dying right back.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: No less, there's a lot of blacksmiths and blacksmiths tremone
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: being mentioned in this book, even though it's never relevant
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: to the blot random blacksmiths. There's the blacksmith's anvil in
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: one of the Eyes to Dies rooms before there's this guy.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like there was one somewhere else, all totally incidental,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, paren, is that you? Paren?
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: Is that you?
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: Every time?
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, do the Dark Friends have the dark prophecy
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: about the Pallen Blacksmith?
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe they do.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: Maybe they're relating that to the Dragon reborn somehow, I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: Or this guy just got taken up by local pinkertons
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: and it has nothing to do with the Black Goaja
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: because apparently in the last month he had started to
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: organize a union and then he died, So maybe it
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: was just a labor dispute. Maybe does nothing to do
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: with Dark Friends.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: Oh no, he was he got lucky, right, This is
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: the whole thing, Like he was being very lucky. Yeah, right.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: The hot news a young blacksmith who was very lucky
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: died a couple of nights ago.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: And he was killed in a pretty nakedly obvious assassination
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: because he was carrying a fuck ton of money with
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: him at the time, but it was all still with
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: his body, so it's like the Dark Friends are getting lazier,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: slash more bold, not trying to cover their tracks as much. Yeah,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: that's kind of all I got.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just basically, yeah, it's time to go visit
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: Lady in this in the palace because she has scened
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: on over Dragon Mount, so she's closer than anybody else.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess I'll just read us out.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: They shared a long look. Then Maureen shook her head.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: I cannot see how to tie that to mylin or
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Tamra a blacksmith. Swan, we can go mad from thinking
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: we see black sisters everywhere. We can die from thinking
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: they aren't there. Swan replied, well, maybe we can be
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: silver pike in the nets instead of grunters. Just remember
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: silver pike could go to the fish market too. What
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: do you have in mind about this, lady Ess Mauren
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: told her. Swan did not like it, and this time
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: it took most of the night to make her see sense.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: In truth, Mauryenne almost wished Swan would talk her into
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: try something else, but Lady Anness had seen dawn over
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Dragon Amount. At least Ethnel's Eyes to Die advisor was
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: with her in the South.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: Which we don't know if that's the one that she
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: gets in the regular series, or if that's a new
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: one or an old one.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: I believe it's an old one because when we're in
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: her POV, I believe she thinks about how they've known
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: each other for a long time and they are really
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: familiar with each other's ways, they have like a friendship
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: and stuff. I'm pretty sure that it's going to be
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: the same one.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: Naya and a NH is her current one in modern
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: real time.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember the name. I'm just pretty sure
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: I remember her thinking about her Eyes to Die advisor
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: and how they've been together for a long time and
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: know each other really well and are friendly and know
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: each other's expressions and all that kind of stuff. I
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: really didn't appreciate how much Ethnel was in this book
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: and in the other books like it just didn't quite register.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't really connect the connection between them being
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: the same person. That You've got this young woman here
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: who's a new mother to this sort of grandmotherly figure,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: which makes sense twenty years later.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:31:47
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• 1:31:50
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• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:31:57
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• 1:32:01
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