Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Abby Johnson: Exposing Abortion Industry Secrets In ‘UNTHINKABLE’

Transcript

Abby Johnson: Exposing Abortion Industry Secrets In ‘UNTHINKABLE’ · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  I volunteered there when I was 14.
• 0:03
  They were paying well.
• 0:05
  I didn't have the education to be working at a clinic like this, so I was excited.
• 0:09
  Got hired right on the spot, no reference check, no anything.
• 0:12
  And no mention of abortion.
• 0:13
  No mention of abortion would, so ever.
• 0:15
  And no idea what I was getting myself into.
• 0:18
  These people appear at the front desk.
• 0:20
  They're promised.
• 0:21
  You're only going to have to work up here.
• 0:23
  You're only going to have to answer phones.
• 0:25
  A reality is going to come to them that eventually they will be working in the back.
• 0:29
  They will be helping with abortions.
• 0:31
  You were hired specifically because I spoke Spanish.
• 0:34
  You spoke Spanish.
• 0:35
  And that's the whole idea right to attract a minority community.
• 0:39
  It was about educating the Hispanic community how to hide abortions from their husbands.
• 0:43
  Something happens in this room that is like a sinker swim moment and they decide they're either in or they're out.
• 0:51
  She picked up the baby and tore the parts in front of me.
• 0:55
  I think that you realize that what you're participating in is evil.
• 0:59
  We want to help you to leave as quickly as possible.
• 1:04
  When I left Planned Parenthood, I didn't have anybody until like really walk with me through that process.
• 1:09
  I thought there's got to be other people that feel this same way.
• 1:19
  Welcome to World View Matters.
• 1:22
  Discussing controversial issues, discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity.
• 1:29
  No topic, off limits.
• 1:32
  And now here's your host, David Firazo.
• 1:36
  Friends, family in Christ, mark this website.
• 1:41
  It's unthinkable.com.
• 1:44
  You just saw part of the trailer for a brand new movie that's coming out in a documentary.
• 1:49
  Unthinkable.doc.com.
• 1:53
  We're so blessed to talk about this important topic.
• 1:56
  And Abby Johnson is with us.
• 1:58
  She's the CEO and founder of and then there were none.
• 2:02
  It's a nonprofit organization established in 2012 to create an exit avenue for abortion industry workers
• 2:10
  with transitional financial assistance, legal aid for whistleblowers, counseling services with licensed therapists,
• 2:18
  spiritual and emotional support, healing retreats, resume writing, job search services, scholarship opportunities and much more.
• 2:27
  They do amazing work.
• 2:29
  Abby has been at this for a while.
• 2:31
  Sisters, so great to have you.
• 2:32
  Welcome to World View Matters. Good to see you.
• 2:35
  Thank you.
• 2:36
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:37
  So very important project before we get into the details of it.
• 2:42
  For people that don't know your story, Abby, used to work with planned parenthood.
• 2:48
  Most of our audience I'm guessing had seen the movie unplanned.
• 2:52
  That was about six, seven years ago.
• 2:54
  Could you please give the bullet point version of your background and how that came to be?
• 3:00
  Sure. Yeah.
• 3:01
  I grew up in a very conservative home.
• 3:05
  Great parents grew up knowing the Lord, loving the Lord, but went to college and just sort of, you know, became worldly, right?
• 3:16
  Just started listening to the world and at my university, that was when I became introduced to plan parenthood through actually a volunteer fair.
• 3:28
  I didn't know anything about plan parenthood had never heard the name before in my life.
• 3:33
  And this woman just started talking to me about all the amazing things that plan parenthood does.
• 3:39
  That, you know, yes, they did provide abortions, but they were trying to help women.
• 3:43
  And, you know, don't you want to help women in need?
• 3:46
  And I'm sure.
• 3:47
  I mean, who doesn't want to help women?
• 3:49
  And I think I got involved just very, I was very naive.
• 3:54
  And I was very ignorant just in the true sense of the word.
• 3:59
  And got involved for the right reasons, but you can't have a right reason for wanting to help women murder babies.
• 4:07
  But I just, I didn't know that at the time.
• 4:10
  And got involved and really once you step into evil.
• 4:18
  I think there's just a hardening of the heart that begins and it makes it very difficult to hear the Lord to feel him to even be in his presence and just a hardening began.
• 4:32
  And I started compromising my morals and ended up working there for eight years and didn't leave until October of 2009.
• 4:45
  When I actually witnessed a live ultrasound guided abortion, where I saw a 13-week old baby fight and struggle for his life against the abortion instruments.
• 4:55
  And I knew then that, you know, I've been face to face with a human being.
• 5:02
  And I knew that what I was doing was was wrong.
• 5:06
  It was not choice.
• 5:07
  It was not justice, reproductive justice, as we called it.
• 5:12
  I knew that I had witnessed the deliberate killing of an innocent human being and that was murder.
• 5:20
  And so, you know, I didn't instantly flip on a light and say, I'm pro-life now, right?
• 5:26
  But I just knew I did not want to be involved in abortion anymore.
• 5:30
  It's just been an evolution that has happened in my own life.
• 5:34
  The more I have come to Christ, the closer I've gotten to the Lord, really the more pro-life I have become.
• 5:44
  And so, yeah, that's where I am now.
• 5:47
  And now I help get other people who are in the abortion industry out and help them come into a saving relationship with you, this Christ.
• 5:55
  The closer you get to the Lord, the more pro-life you become.
• 5:59
  That was one takeaway right there.
• 6:01
  The other one is that very gripping scene from the movie unplanned when you actually, the person playing you saw the baby being aborted.
• 6:11
  And it just, how can that not affect a person?
• 6:14
  But you were there for eight years.
• 6:16
  By the time you were in year five, six, were you defending the talking points, reproductive freedom?
• 6:23
  It's a joy, my body, my choice.
• 6:25
  Talk to us a little bit about that transition, because you didn't believe that going in.
• 6:29
  You just thought you were really helping women, right?
• 6:32
  Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
• 6:34
  I remember I've been thinking about this particular thing over the past few days.
• 6:40
  My boss was, had been an employee for Planned Parenthood for over 30 years when I left.
• 6:49
  She was such a hardened woman.
• 6:52
  She was a lesbian.
• 6:54
  Her partner worked for Planned Parenthood as well.
• 6:58
  And I was thinking about just this over the past few days, and I was remembering a conversation that she and I had had actually in the POC lab.
• 7:08
  POC stands for Products of Conception.
• 7:11
  Of course, you know, that is the baby.
• 7:13
  And inside of every abortion clinic, there is a lab called the POC Lab.
• 7:18
  And that is the place where after an abortion, all of the parts of the baby go into that lab to be reassembled.
• 7:26
  So you're looking for two legs, two arms, head, torso to ensure that everything has been removed from the uterus.
• 7:35
  Because if something is left, then there can be a serious infection that woman can become septic and die.
• 7:43
  And I remember being in the room with her the POC lab one day when we were doing abortions.
• 7:50
  And this was probably, I don't know, three years in or so.
• 7:56
  And I remember her talking about a man named Dr. Warren Herne.
• 8:03
  Dr. Herne just retired in 2025, but he was a late term abortion provider.
• 8:10
  And he performed abortions up until 40 weeks.
• 8:14
  So up until the date of birth, he would kill a baby.
• 8:19
  And I remember talking to my boss about it and just thinking, I said it out loud.
• 8:25
  I said, I just, I don't know how I feel about that, you know, I don't know.
• 8:30
  And I remember her answer, she said, better to, better to die in an abortion clinic than in a dumpster.
• 8:42
  Implying that if a woman goes through with an unwanted pregnancy, then she will throw her baby in a dumpster.
• 8:51
  And I have to be honest with you.
• 8:54
  I thought in the moment, I thought, all right, well, I mean, I guess that kind of makes sense, right?
• 9:02
  Because you're grasping for anything to make what you're doing make sense.
• 9:10
  You're just trying to justify what you're doing.
• 9:14
  And so I thought, okay, I, okay, like I guess I can get, I can get on board with that, right?
• 9:22
  And I just remember so many conversations I had with her and she was really like my mentor, I guess, in the industry.
• 9:30
  So many conversations I had with her and even, even in a previous interview, I was talking about just the indoctrination that takes place in the abortion clinic, you know, the FBI would come in once a year, usually local law enforcement would come in once every six months or so.
• 9:51
  We would do bomb sweeps every six months, you know, just kind of this indoctrination of the FBI would tell us, you know, don't go home the same way because you know these these anti choice people might be following you home and you have to protect yourself.
• 10:08
  Just for us to be in fear, there was a constant level of you need to be defending yourself, you need to be protecting yourself from these anti choice zealots that are trying to kill you, right, which is so ironic.
• 10:22
  Yeah, because we were the ones that were actually killing right and they're the ones who are trying to protect life, but there is sort of an indoctrination that takes place while you're there and many of our clients who are former workers talk about working in the clinic is their cult years because it does feel like in a sense you're in a cult.
• 10:43
  Yes, they try to separate you from family, they don't want you to have friends outside of your co-workers.
• 10:52
  I remember, you know, my boss trying to get me to not get married to my husband.
• 11:00
  You know, didn't value the marriage, you know, the sanctity of marriage unless it was an homosexual marriage.
• 11:09
  When I got pregnant with my daughter, Grace, every day, pressuring me to have an abortion.
• 11:15
  So it really is, it's a strange place to be, but it is definitely a cult like environment and indoctrination.
• 11:23
  Well, cult of death, absolutely.
• 11:26
  So one thing I wanted to respond to you, I got a letter from you that says David, it's urgent that I hear from you today is your newsletter.
• 11:35
  And so I thought, well, I'm going to talk to Abby in a few days, I don't need to respond to the letter.
• 11:39
  But tell us about this right here.
• 11:41
  It says freedom is one call away.
• 11:43
  This little card was inside your newsletter.
• 11:46
  I love that you are literally rescuing mostly women, right?
• 11:51
  Women that are in this industry that maybe went in with good intentions like you.
• 11:54
  Tell us a little bit more about that.
• 11:57
  Yeah, you know, it's interesting, about 70% of women who work in the abortion industry have had abortions themselves.
• 12:07
  And I have to tell you, some of the stories we hear, sometimes the abortion industry, these abortion providers will recruit their employees on the table.
• 12:23
  So these women will be on the table having an abortion.
• 12:28
  And something will come up about employment or a job or something like that.
• 12:33
  And the person in the room helping to perform their abortion will say, well, we're hiring.
• 12:39
  If you need a job, we'll hire you.
• 12:43
  So they are recruiting women intentionally who have had abortions.
• 12:51
  You know, these, they're wounded.
• 12:54
  They're wounded people, right?
• 12:56
  And so they're looking for sort of that vulnerable demographic to come into their centers.
• 13:05
  They're also looking for women in particular who are single moms, women who lack education.
• 13:13
  They want to get those women into their centers.
• 13:17
  They pay them more than they could make anywhere else.
• 13:22
  They provide this on the job training, which is actually not training.
• 13:27
  They don't get any certifications when you walk away from Planned Parenthood.
• 13:31
  You have no certifications, right?
• 13:33
  But you've been acting as a nurse.
• 13:36
  You've actually been doing things that are illegal for you to do.
• 13:41
  But you don't know it's illegal because Planned Parenthood said you're getting all of this appropriate training.
• 13:47
  But you know, when I walked away from Planned Parenthood, I realized, oh my gosh, I've been breaking the law.
• 13:54
  But I didn't know it until I started talking to attorneys.
• 14:00
  When Planned Parenthood sued me, I had no idea.
• 14:03
  I had been giving anesthesia to patients, starting IVs, doing all these injections, doing all this stuff.
• 14:10
  It was actually illegal for me to do.
• 14:12
  But Planned Parenthood assured me it was fine for me to do because they had trained me.
• 14:18
  And so, you know, they get these women in.
• 14:22
  They train them as nurses.
• 14:24
  They're working as nurses, but they have no credentialing to do so.
• 14:28
  And so, these women sort of get hooked on a lifestyle based on the money that they're making.
• 14:37
  And they have children, they're caring for children.
• 14:41
  And then, you know, they feel like, oh my gosh, now I realize what I'm doing is evil.
• 14:46
  But I don't feel like I can leave.
• 14:48
  I feel like I'm stuck here in this facility.
• 14:52
  And, you know, our mission is to help these people understand that once you recognize something is evil, Scripture tells you you should flee from it.
• 15:01
  You should not cooperate with it.
• 15:03
  And so, we don't ever want money or, you know, lack of certifications or anything like that to be a reason that someone continues to cooperate with evil.
• 15:12
  And so, our ministry exists to help them get out immediately, not put in your two weeks notice or give them whatever.
• 15:21
  We want them to leave immediately.
• 15:23
  We have scholarship programs that they want to continue working in the medical field.
• 15:27
  We can actually put them through school so that they can get proper certifications.
• 15:32
  We actually just help the woman graduate with her bachelor's degree that we fully funded.
• 15:39
  In the medical field, we help them, you know, become philbotomist, medical assistants, CNAs, whatever they'd like to do.
• 15:48
  We fund that for them entirely.
• 15:50
  We help them heal 95% of the women who come through our ministry have diagnosed will PTSD.
• 15:57
  That's not normal.
• 15:58
  You don't leave a, you know, a job is a waitress and have PTSD from it, right?
• 16:04
  You don't leave a job in the insurance industry and have PTSD.
• 16:09
  It's not normal, but, you know, abortion, the abortion industry working there is not normal.
• 16:13
  Abortion is not normal.
• 16:15
  And so, we want to get them proper healing, but ultimately, we want to get them into a relationship with Jesus Christ.
• 16:22
  And most of them, I will say, had some sort of foundation, some sort of Christian foundation growing up.
• 16:29
  But like me, at some point in time, they fell away from their faith.
• 16:34
  They walked away from their faith.
• 16:36
  And so we want to bring them back into wholeness with Jesus Christ.
• 16:42
  Thank you. Praise God.
• 16:44
  I want to give Abby's other website.
• 16:46
  It is prolove.com, p-r-o-love.com.
• 16:50
  We've got so much more to get to with Abby Johnson when we return on World View Matters.
• 16:55
  Register now for the World View Matters Conference May 1st and 2nd in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 17:01
  Expert speakers include Alex Newman, Brianna Clawson, Olivier Melnick, Tim Chafy, Mark and Amber Archer, Laura Perry Smalls,
• 17:13
  Jake Jacobs, Jay Seigert, Gary Caw, Scott Shera, and Elijah Abraham.
• 17:21
  Delta Hotel Green Bay May 1st and 2nd.
• 17:24
  Go to worldviewmattersconference.com, that's worldviewmattersconference.com.
• 17:32
  So Abby Johnson, your story caught the attention of millions, even possibly before the unplanned movie.
• 17:39
  Just out of curiosity, in people that you've met in the recent years, have you met other Abby Johnson's?
• 17:47
  Have you met other, they were high level in some abortion business or plan parenthood.
• 17:52
  And now they're maybe doing work that you're doing or similar.
• 17:55
  Tell us a little bit about that angle.
• 17:57
  Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what we do.
• 18:00
  And then there were none.
• 18:01
  I mean, we've had many high level employees come out of the industry, come through our ministry.
• 18:07
  They're now publicly speaking out.
• 18:10
  We, our ministry has shut down 64 abortion facilities because of the information that these workers know.
• 18:19
  So, you know, they come to us and they're essentially whistleblowers.
• 18:23
  So they have all this information about the about the abortion industry that they're ready, they're ready to talk about it, right?
• 18:29
  That's kind of part of the healing.
• 18:30
  That was part of my healing was talking about what I knew.
• 18:34
  And so, they come out and they want to speak.
• 18:38
  They want to tell someone about the things that they have seen.
• 18:42
  And they want to, they want to be active about it.
• 18:45
  And so, we get them in touch with, you know, federal, state, local officials.
• 18:51
  And we've been able to close down 64 clinics.
• 18:54
  So, you know, but even more than that, really is so much education.
• 19:01
  And we've had so many women contact us and say, you know, I was considering an abortion.
• 19:08
  I heard a testimony from one of your workers.
• 19:10
  I had no idea that, you know, this was happening in abortion clinics.
• 19:15
  I didn't know this was abortion.
• 19:18
  I did, you know, we are still living in such an ignorant times surrounding the unborn and abortion.
• 19:29
  Because everybody's been kind of sold a sterile bloodless abortion scene, right?
• 19:39
  And so, we're really shedding the light on this that it is not bloodless.
• 19:43
  It is not sterile.
• 19:45
  It is not pain free.
• 19:48
  It's murder.
• 19:50
  Yes.
• 19:51
  Thank you.
• 19:52
  And it's murdering a baby.
• 19:54
  But it's also putting a stain on the soul of the woman who has an abortion.
• 20:01
  Because abortion is so unnatural.
• 20:03
  It's the most unnatural thing a woman could ever do.
• 20:07
  To pit a woman against her child in that way.
• 20:11
  And to bring harm for a mother to bring harm against her child is so unnatural, so against God.
• 20:18
  And so that's what we do.
• 20:21
  We share our stories and try to try to save lives and save souls.
• 20:25
  Thank you.
• 20:26
  So part of the description, and this goes to something you just said, unthinkable.
• 20:31
  It is a feature length documentary that brings everything to light.
• 20:36
  It's the shocking expose of the abortion industry's dirtiest secrets.
• 20:42
  My question is, you just answered it because you said there's so much ignorance out there.
• 20:46
  Probably because people have bought the talking points and the propaganda.
• 20:49
  You'll never hear the truth from the leftist media, from corporations on a university campus.
• 20:56
  Definitely not from Planned Parenthood.
• 20:58
  So dirtiest secrets.
• 21:00
  So you were exposing some of this, which brings me to my next question.
• 21:03
  Did I hear correctly that unthinkable was banned from March for Life?
• 21:08
  Can you explain that?
• 21:10
  Did that happen?
• 21:12
  That did happen.
• 21:14
  We were, you know, they partnered with us on unplanned.
• 21:18
  And so we just thought, well, of course, they'll partner with us on this film, on Thinkable.
• 21:25
  We sent it over to them.
• 21:28
  The film is complete.
• 21:29
  So we sent it over to them and thought, okay, great.
• 21:32
  We're, you know, going to get buy-in from the March for Life.
• 21:36
  They sent an email back to us and said the film was super powerful.
• 21:41
  It was full of truth.
• 21:44
  But that they found it to be too graphic for partnership.
• 21:50
  Now, I want to be clear, there are no graphic images in this film.
• 21:55
  And if you want to talk about graphic, I mean, I think unplanned was probably
• 22:00
  far more graphic in nature.
• 22:02
  I mean, it, you know, showed what an abortion looks like.
• 22:05
  It showed the, you know, products of conception.
• 22:09
  Like it showed, you know, aborted baby parts.
• 22:12
  I mean, I felt like that was far more graphic than, you know, visually,
• 22:18
  than what you're going to see in Unthinkable.
• 22:21
  These women are simply telling their stories and talking about what happened
• 22:28
  to these women, what happened to these babies.
• 22:32
  And so I guess their descriptions of murder, descriptions of abortion
• 22:41
  were too graphic for the March for Life.
• 22:45
  And it just really makes you wonder, you know,
• 22:50
  how do people think we are going to end this Holocaust?
• 22:54
  You know, do they think we're just going to, you know, hug and kiss
• 23:00
  this atrocity away?
• 23:02
  I mean, people must be exposed to the truth.
• 23:06
  Yes.
• 23:07
  Even if it's hard.
• 23:09
  Even if it makes a shutter.
• 23:11
  Even if it makes us want to, you know, plug our ears and close our eyes.
• 23:16
  I think that we as a movement, we as a body of Christ, we've got to sober up
• 23:23
  and look at it and listen to it.
• 23:27
  We've got to face what abortion actually is.
• 23:31
  We have to say it that it is murder.
• 23:34
  Yes.
• 23:35
  And we have to treat it as murder.
• 23:39
  And I couldn't believe it.
• 23:41
  I was so shocked when I got that email back from them that they weren't
• 23:46
  going to partner with us.
• 23:48
  But it seems that we're just living in times right now where people really don't
• 23:53
  want to face the reality of abortion and what it is.
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 23:58
  And this is not a new challenge.
• 24:00
  It's gone on for a long time.
• 24:02
  Some churches don't even want to talk about it.
• 24:04
  And that's for a whole other podcast.
• 24:06
  I'll be back and talk about your experience with some churches that, oh, no,
• 24:09
  don't want to go there.
• 24:10
  But I wrote a book in 2011 called The Eradicate.
• 24:13
  And one of the chapters was the dark buried history of Planned Parenthood
• 24:17
  where I exposed Margaret Sanger and the history.
• 24:20
  That's 100 year history right there here in America.
• 24:23
  But I quoted Father Frank Povone who said,
• 24:26
  America will never resist abortion until America sees abortion.
• 24:32
  And at face value, you look at that quote and go,
• 24:35
  what do you mean see?
• 24:37
  So see, understand.
• 24:38
  They don't have to witness maybe not necessarily the procedure.
• 24:42
  But you're talking about the ignorance out there of people not understanding.
• 24:48
  And I don't fully understand that.
• 24:51
  I think I mean, the enemy wants to keep the deception thick and the fog thick
• 24:55
  and people believing the talking points.
• 24:57
  But your final thoughts here, Abby.
• 24:59
  By the way, unthinkable.com.
• 25:02
  People can support the film and get involved there, right?
• 25:06
  Unthinkable.com.
• 25:08
  Yes, that's correct.
• 25:10
  We would love for people to support.
• 25:12
  We are right now trying to, like I said, the film is complete.
• 25:17
  Production is complete.
• 25:19
  We are now just trying to work to get it in theaters for a theatrical release.
• 25:26
  We feel like not only is this going to shake the foundation of people who believe in abortion,
• 25:33
  but honestly, we think it's going to shake the foundation of the pro-life movement as well to wake them from their slumber.
• 25:43
  People need to hear the truth.
• 25:46
  And I think that people who have been in the industry,
• 25:51
  people who have witnessed the murders, people who have been a part of the murders.
• 25:56
  I mean, one of the women in the documentary, for instance, just quickly.
• 26:00
  She actually went to federal prison for her involvement with Dr. Kermit Gosnell,
• 26:06
  who is facing, you know, life sentences for what he did in the abortion industry.
• 26:11
  And she's in the film.
• 26:13
  Her story is in the film and she talks about how it is plainly murder.
• 26:17
  And she served time for her crimes.
• 26:22
  And it's so crazy how sometimes we see it's murder or sometimes it's not murder, it's always murder.
• 26:30
  And we've got to wake up and we have to face what we've done as a nation.
• 26:36
  I think it's hard for us to say, well, God's going to bless us as long as we are committing these atrocities against His creation.
• 26:45
  So we need to wake up and I hope that this film will be a part of that.
• 26:51
  I trust that it will be friends, pray for Abby and protection for her and her family
• 26:56
  and everybody that's involved with unthinkable.
• 26:59
  I hope, yeah, the pro-life, there's a lot of good people out there and good movements.
• 27:03
  But I think a lot of people, maybe Christians, are tired of the political ping pong
• 27:09
  between, you know, legislation, incrementalism, getting these little laws.
• 27:13
  Then someone else gets an office, they take it back.
• 27:15
  And then this has been going on for, you know, since the 70s.
• 27:18
  But anyway, Abby, there's so much more that we could discuss.
• 27:21
  Maybe we'll have you back when it's out.
• 27:23
  Lord willing, we'll talk again though. Thanks so much for your time.
• 27:26
  Appreciate it.
• 27:27
  Thank you so much.
• 27:28
  God bless you and the work that you do.
• 27:30
  Friends, get this down unthinkable.com and again, her other website prolove.com.
• 27:38
  God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
• 27:43
  See you next time.