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CJP #45: Panik of the Molemen · Coconut Justice

• speaker-0: Hey, what's good? Panik is a founding member of the legendary Chicago production collective called The Mole Men. A cornerstone in the city's independent hip hop scene, Panik helped define the sound of the underground hip hop and has produced for some of the most respected voices in the culture. If you know Chicago hip hop, you know his fingerprints are all over it. Explosives joins me in this conversation with Chicago hip hop legend, Panik of the Mole Men. Before we get into it, remember to go to coconutjustice.com to get you some clothes that I think would look good on you. Let's go. All right, you guys, I wanted to hurry up and hit record because we got to talk in some bears and we're this what it looks like when start to bear down. ⁓ So Panik, This is Panik from the moment one of Chicago hop. Legends, thank you so much for coming to hang out. Sure. This is going to be a blast. Also, we got C4 explosives. speaker-1: What is cracking, man? I am so excited for this one. speaker-0: Yeah, so we're saying ⁓ coach. I just want to go say his name, Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson likes to throw on fourth down. speaker-2: Yeah, or sometimes really he doesn't need to, you That's all. speaker-0: Yeah. think, and, and, and C4 had said something. Uh, he said that, uh, uh, Caleb forgets that he can run. You need to understand. You need to understand he has way more confidence in his throwing skills than he does his legs. speaker-2: Yes. speaker-1: There was a couple ones though, like he could have ran and he pulled up and he ran outside. I think it was like a third and like, third and 10 or third and 12. And he could have ran for the first down if he would have gutted it out a little bit. I think it was against the pack or something like that. speaker-0: I don't hate that though. don't hate that because that's going to add longevity and the longer we can keep his legs young, the longer we're going to win Super Bowls. speaker-2: But here's the thing. Here's the thing, at least we, the good thing is we had a really good season and it's something we haven't had in a while and it's exciting. It wasn't even just exciting for Chicago, it was exciting for the whole NFL. So that's something good. ⁓ speaker-0: Go ahead. Especially that after that after that boring ass Super Bowl like how fun would it have been to just have Caleb? Everybody's like everybody's waiting for the Bears fourth quarter speaker-1: You know who also had fun during that playoff run? Cardiologists. They were like, ⁓ boy, we got, how many people are having heart attacks over here, Fourth and whatever, fourth quarter of 10 seconds, Hail Mary's and shit. speaker-0: How many people you guys think would jump up in celebration and they forget that they have a ceiling fan or something? speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: So not just cardiologists, but ER rooms, they're making a killing off of these bears. speaker-1: Boys losing digits, man. They're like, what's going on here? speaker-2: It was dervracking. was... Yeah. speaker-1: But it was fun. speaker-0: Yeah. But it's fun because, know, when you're, when you have a, especially in sports, when you're really good, you can actually make the luck happen for you. And that's what was happening. Like the first year we had Caleb, he was good, but, the team itself wasn't good enough to have the lucky part flip on our side of the coin. You know what I mean? But now this year, we started getting all the, you know, all the magnificent catches. We started getting all the kicks and all the, because wasn't it with the Green Bay where we got the onside kick? speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: That shit's almost scientifically impossible. And this year it it happened to be. You know, we kept getting the good bounces. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: It was good to just beat Green Bay. speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, twice. Three times? No, no, twice. speaker-1: I'd say ⁓ that any day. That's the Super Bowl right there. speaker-0: Yeah speaker-2: Yeah, it was definitely satisfying. For now. It's something to build on. speaker-0: Yeah. 100%. If we were to, whatever, know, we're getting into like drafting from college and everything, what do you guys think the Bears need to go up to the next level? speaker-1: Yeah, work on some defense. speaker-2: Yeah, I think that's the obvious thing. Just add a little piece of difference. speaker-1: They click, they click, you know, they, man, it almost seems like when the pressure's on, they gel, which is great, but you know, you can have a lead and be comfortable with it, you know, once in a while, you know what I'm saying? Like, so. speaker-0: Yeah, let's get to the point where we're blowing people out. speaker-2: Yeah, and we don't really, doesn't, it seems like we're doing, like we need a lot of help, but we don't need that much. We just need like two or three players to make a difference. And that'll just bring everybody more together. I think, I don't think we need that much. It looks like it, but I think one or two players might just change the whole defense. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Everybody's gelling. takes time. Everybody believes in the system. You know what I'm saying? They believe in the coach. What he's preaching is the gospel. They're like, yeah, we're all in. We're all in. Once everybody buys in, then you see the magic happen. And then you get another year under your belt. You get an offseason to click. All these things are coming into place. speaker-0: And when you start noticing that you know, especially for Caleb, the more he plays with his receivers and his backs, the more he's going to understand how they operate and he's going to be able to put the ball exactly where they want it. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, son. speaker-0: How you guys feel about Chicago possibly going to Northwest Indiana? speaker-2: They should never talk that craziness. They shouldn't go to Iowa, to North Indiana, anywhere. Just imagine that. The Bears went to another city. That's ridiculous. Imagine if the Yankees went to another city, you know? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I could take the cubs speaker-0: Oh look at that. C4's internet went bad. Oh no. speaker-1: No. speaker-2: Here's the thing, I love all the teams from Chicago, but when the Whiteshots won the World Series and when the Cubs won the World Series, it's a huge difference. As far as meaning to the city, you know? I so. speaker-1: I I give it a which speaker-2: But when the White Sox won, I was watching it. I was excited. I wanted Chicago to win, obviously. But it's just a huge difference. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when the Cubs won, everyone was celebrating and everyone was excited. And I remember, I'm with Panik, when the White Sox won, I all in. ⁓ yeah, let's go. This is going to be great for the city. And then they interviewed, one of the first people I saw interviewed one of the White Sox fans. like, hey, you just won the World Series. What do you think? He said, Cubs suck. speaker-2: That just lets you know what it means, you know? speaker-1: That's bragging rice, man. Come Thanksgiving, you're like, yeah, I'll take that. speaker-0: They were talking mad shit for a long time too, because I mean the World Series ring. Boy, you want to talk about something that is difficult. speaker-1: I mean, but y'all win 101. What, 101 or something like that, man? I mean, I get it. You needed that one. Generations pass and you didn't win one, so. speaker-0: Baseball needed that one dude baseball needed that one speaker-2: Yeah, it's kind of like when the Red Sox won, How long it took them and how they were just getting beat up. speaker-0: I would love for the Cubs and the White Sox to bank it to the... speaker-2: Just imagine that craziness. speaker-0: to blow up Especially in October, you know, it's gonna be like cold and rainy No one's gonna be able to feel anything because their fingers are all frozen speaker-1: Everybody's drunk as hell, like it's gonna be a mess. speaker-0: Yeah. And then that's the day like the next, like it'd be like the end of the ninth inning and it's tied five five. And that's when God himself comes down. You're like, can you wait half an inning, bro? speaker-1: You don't need to wrap shit yet. Hold on. Hold on. speaker-2: Hahaha speaker-0: Give us 15 minutes. speaker-1: Guys like nah, you know what? We y'all can't handle this. We need to end this speaker-0: No, he came to A. I'll bet you he comes down and he's like, no, no, no, I wanted to see the end of this too. speaker-1: I can see that shit, man. speaker-0: ⁓ Yeah, I try to explain to people out here the passion that is sports in Chicago. and I don't even know what it is. May I, you know, you'd like to say the weather is shitty. So you want to stay in and, and watch TV, watch the sports or whatever. What do you guys think is why, why are Chicagoans addicted to sports? speaker-2: I don't know. We got a lot of stories though. That's the thing since, you know, I was born and raised here. So it's just like, I mean, you have the stuff from, from the cubs, just, you know, 1000 years of winning, not waiting to win. And then you got people like, then you got people like, you know, just George Hallas and Walter Payton, Mike Ditka and all that crazy stuff going on with 85 bears and just the history of the bears and, and, you know, you got Micheal Jordan. speaker-0: One speaker-2: stuff. So it's like, we got all that to talk about, you but we had a lot of sad moments too. yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: That's Chicago in a nutshell, right? That's growing up in Chicago in a nutshell. You go through the grind, you go through struggles, and then you get that taste of victory, you ride with it, you carry it with you wherever you go. then me moving down to Florida right now, I go over there and I'll still rock my shit, man. And I'll still talk my shit. And they'll be like, you haven't won? I'm like, I don't care. You know where I'm at? You know where I'm from? You know what we've done? All you gotta do is say Michael Jordan and then they could just kind of like yeah, we got it enough speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, but even more like the fact that the story of Derek Rose speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-2: ⁓ my god, yeah. She's got a lot of stories. We got a lot of interesting stories. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Panik, you said you grew up in Chicago. You were born and raised. ⁓ you a speaker-2: Well here's the thing, see this is the thing that I consider myself. And it's going to be like universal. I consider myself everything. If I'm from Chicago, I'm from Chicago. It's just like even, don't even want to get political, but even like politics. I'm not right, left, or middle, or whatever. I'm just a person, a human. And it's just like that. And I think that's also a part of Chicago. See, I grew up in Chicago, growing up in Chicago, you could see people from all races. all religions, all type of food, you hear all different languages. So that's my mentality has always been. know, as I'm getting older, I get to travel to different countries and even hip hop, just digging for records. I was digging for Jewish records, from French records, from Japanese records, to Mexican records. know, records, it's just, everything is worldwide. To me, the food, the mentality, everything. So when I think of Chicago, like I was saying, I was generally happy and interested when the White Sox were doing well, you know, because I didn't consider myself a Northsider or a Southsider. And as a child, from zero to nine years old, I lived on the Southside. I lived in Pilsen, I lived in Little Village, and eventually we moved up North, but that's just been the thing. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things that I appreciate about going to shout out Roosevelt High School ⁓ was exactly that was we had everybody from everywhere. And so you get desensitized to just the black and white and you get desensitized to just English and you get desensitized. So then when you, when you do get to travel the planet, You're a little more chill. You're a little more, like not everything is that exciting in a positive way. Like it opens you up to meeting more people. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: It is that melting pot. Like you can go, like when you can walk down the street and you could see, you could eat every, like a little bit of every nation, you know what I'm saying? And you get all the culture, the, just everything. You said it, you know, every language, every, it doesn't matter. Like, and then when you go outside and you see, you go to places where there isn't that diversity, you feel kind of sad. Like I feel sad, you know what I'm saying? Growing up where we grew up, it's like, I grew up on the North Side. ⁓ I grew up by the basement over there, by Lincoln and Foster, over by California. I hit the store over there and dig. But that was love, man. That was home. You go there, you get a little bit of everything, and everything was OK. And it's like a culture shock when people are like, man, they're like, I don't know, man. Just to look up people's faces when they don't experience that, I just feel bad. speaker-2: Yeah, I lived in Dallas for like eight years. And over there, it's kind of just like a lot of Mexicans, a lot of whites, and blacks. But it's all separate. ⁓ it's like a more conservative state. I grew up in Chicago, and I was like, wow, this is something else. But it's good to get exposed to that. It's good. It's good to get exposed to that, because you get to understand people more. Go ahead. speaker-0: Yeah. And it's good. No, I cut you off. That was my bad. When I was good, I got excited because I wanted to say, and it's good to expose people to people from Chicago too. Because we can be friendly until we're not. speaker-2: Well. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: You know? speaker-1: Yeah, hip hop was like that though, man. Like when in the, in the late nineties, right? I remember you either were a backpacker or you were from the west side. You were from the south side. Right. And me, I never fit in a niche. So I would go, I go over to Wicker Park and then go to sub T's and do my, my ciphers. I'd hop on the red line, go to 95th and the Ryan and go hang out with all the brothers on the south side. And then I go back home to the west side and I kick it with everybody else. like. You know, I never fit in to any of the crews, but you know what was a staple was the moment for me, man. Listening to those beats and the headphones riding on the train. I was like, that shit right there was like, that was a soundtrack on the subway. You know what I'm saying? When I'm riding the L, that was my soundtrack was the moment and all the beats and juice and vaquille. And then I'm digging more when I knew you were coming on the show, I'm like. Let me put on Panik Radio on Spotify. And then I'm like, bro, he was rocking with Cali Agents. He was rocking with Master Haze. like, I know all of these beats, man. I know all of these beats. This is crazy. And so it was like a time machine and a history lesson. really, I pay homage, man, and give you respect and dues, man, because you were, unknowingly, you shaped how I was as an MC. You know what saying? I got mad love for you. speaker-2: Thank you. You know, when I started going to high school, when I started going to grammar school and high school here, oh yeah, number nine. When I started going to high school and grammar school here, I was like one of the few guys on the North side that was listening to hip hop. Everybody was in house, and I would put on Adidas and all that, and everybody would look me like, look at this weirdo and shit. So I was always out of place. I was always out of place, but I liked that. I liked that I was always... Even to this age, I do a lot of things that a lot of people look at strange, but it's me. I even made an album called Coloring Outside the Line because my mentality has always been not the norm. I don't live a normal life. don't... My music, I make it the way I want to. I just... My mentality is... So, but that taught me from the beginning to stand out. Cause when I, like I said, I was going to high school, I was just into hip hop and everybody was listening to house. So, and even in Chicago, as we came up, everybody started looking at, these guys trying to sound like New York, you know? Cause everybody was on a certain vibe here and yo, these guys are on New York shit. They sound too much New York, you know? But New York didn't want our records. So the people that opened up to us was people from Cali. If it wasn't for like the beat junkies and Peanut Butter Wolf to having that, to opening up with distribution and putting us on their mixtapes, like New York would have never heard us, you know? So it's like, it's always been that, just breaking barriers and standing out and being yourself, you know? speaker-1: What was it like out there back then? Like, it's easy now to get, move your music around, you know what I'm saying? But what was it like trying to break through back in the mid 90s, early 90s? Like when were you really doing your thing? speaker-2: Yeah, well, first about making hip hop in Chicago, it was hard because there was no labels here. And everybody, even to this day, everybody's on each other. Like nobody's gonna give each other props here. And it was worse back then. And like there was no radio stations, we were playing a lot of hip hop, just to college stations. So you just had to really, really love it, because we didn't have iPods or, I mean not iPods. Well, yeah, iPads and streaming and other that. We had to carry records. We had to carry boxes of mix tapes, turntables, beat machines. Those beat machines weigh like 30, 40 pounds in each arm. It's like, really, really... But here's the beautiful part about it. It's like, that's what makes it better. I don't know which philosopher it is, but they say if you don't suffer, you don't appreciate it. You don't grow, you know? It's like the rich kid that gets the money right away, you know? If you get the money right away, you don't have nothing else to do. You're bored. But if you work for it... speaker-1: You learn, you fail, speaker-2: You learn to get up, you learn to survive, you learn to grow, learn to mature. So it was like that with hip hop back then. We got a lot of nos. You know, no, we're not gonna carry your record. No, we're not gonna distribute it. But we kept going, and that's what is. speaker-0: Hey Panik, where's your family from? speaker-2: Well, my mom and dad are from Mexico. They immigrated here. Yeah. And I was born here. Okay. I was the first of the child that was born in Chicago. Everybody else, my three siblings before me were born in Mexico City. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: No, because I try to tell people like earlier when you said ⁓ it was house versus hip hop when we were kids. I remember trying to listen to hip hop and all the Puerto Ricans were telling me, no, no, bitch. You got to get on this house music. You're not listening to hip hop. speaker-2: There's so many levels to growing up in Chicago, because I used to hang around with a bunch of Mexican guys. I was Mexican, but the Puerto Ricans would be like, why are you hanging around with those Mexicans? But then I would hang around with the Puerto Ricans and be like, why are you hanging around with those Puerto Ricans? The Mexicans used to tell me, but that was me. I hung around everybody, man. I hung around white people, black people, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, whatever, because I was just, I don't know, it's just always been that in me. I think you learn from people. I think life is about being curious. It doesn't matter if you're a child or you're an old man, 90 years old or whatever. You always have to have that curiosity about life. And curiosity is learning a lot of different people, different cultures, different philosophies, whatever, learning new things. Whether it be cooking, playing instruments, working out, whatever. speaker-0: And exactly like you were talking about earlier, you were collecting records from everywhere. Yeah. And you're letting that music influence you. Yeah. speaker-2: Bye. ⁓ speaker-0: what, speaking of which, what are some of your influences? speaker-2: Everything. That's funny as it sounds. but I mean, you know, it's obvious that African American music, it's the roots of most of the music that exists. So obviously, you know, when we first got into hip hop, it was James Brown, Cool and the Gang, artists like that. But my brother, was... My oldest brother, used to just listen in a lot of R &B and soul. So even as a kid, I started just listening to different music. My parents listen to Hispanic music, my brother listen to soul music, my sister was listening to romantic music from Mexico and Latin America. I would just get, that music was being consumed in my ears and my brain ever since I was child. So that's why I say everything because... As I started getting more into hip hop and buying records and sampling and break beats and all that, I started realizing that, man, I was getting gospel records, white gospel, black gospel, ⁓ Japanese records, Jewish records, and it was coming from everywhere. speaker-0: thought you were about to say Japanese gospel. was like, what's that sound like? speaker-2: I might have got some Japanese gossips. ⁓ speaker-0: I bet you that would be a fun listen, boy. speaker-2: Hey, there's Japanese soul, there's Japanese jazz, there's Japanese everything, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some Japanese gospel somewhere over there. speaker-0: huh. Yup. And I betcha they make it better. speaker-2: So that's, yeah, man, Japan is really dope. But yeah, the thing. No, man, that's one of the places that I really, really just started probably like the last five years getting into this traveling mentality, you know, and I've been able to travel the last five years. I'm actually taking it serious since then. Since during COVID, during COVID, I got my passport. It took like nine months because I got it right before COVID started and then the government shut down. speaker-1: Have you been on there? speaker-2: But once I got my passport, I just started traveling since then. So let's just say 2020 is where I started traveling. So yeah, but Japan's definitely on the radar. speaker-0: Hell yeah. Yeah. What's the wildest place you've been to? The one that stands out when someone says, where have you gone? What's the first place that pops up? speaker-2: I just came from, ⁓ in ⁓ December, just came from Rio de Janeiro. yeah. Brazil, Yeah, I just came from there. I didn't know Portuguese and most of the people there speak Portuguese. I was like, ⁓ I know English. I know Spanish. ⁓ It's just Portuguese mainly. speaker-0: Oh, hell yeah, I haven't been there yet. speaker-2: So I was with someone and I went there with someone and we're just looking at each other when they're talking to us in Portuguese. But we got there. There's a lot of life lessons to be there because I was running my debit and my credit and just things are done differently there. So you have to adjust so many different things. But that's the beautiful part about exposing yourself to different things. But yeah, that was definitely a dope place. That's the furthest I've been to. speaker-0: We talk a lot about putting yourself in situations like that where you're basically pushing the boundaries of the understanding of what you have of yourself. Yeah. And being able to go to just Brazil and figure it out and look at you back. speaker-2: Yeah. Look, I'm going to tell you a story. As a child, I almost drowned twice. So was always afraid of getting in the water. I've been to Cancun three times, and I've been to Colombia in the coastal part. My last time in Colombia, I don't know why the f— Well, I kind of know why I did it, but— speaker-0: done. speaker-2: I was with someone and they're like, let's go school with diving. I don't know how to fucking swim. So they put this big ass fucking oxygen tank on me. I got a dress shirt on. They put those fucking flap things for your feet. And this man's giving us these instructions for like. speaker-0: Said dress up for scuba, he put on a button down. speaker-2: They put this like 20 pound like steel fucking belt on you and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? There's no turning back, you know, so I'm like. So, but I made it bad, but that's what it's about. Exposing yourselves. I think that's issue a lot with what's going on currently in the country. Like people are not exposing themselves, so they're in their little safe area, anything else that's different, it's a fucking problem. speaker-1: You speaker-2: And that's the thing, it's just ignorance. But that's just inner ignorance. Yeah. But here's the thing, like, when I got underwater, I made it back. I'm still, like you said, I made it back. I'm here in Chicago again. You know? So that's the thing. have to... I think that's the part of life, the most beautiful part of life, it's exposing yourself to things because that builds your confidence that... speaker-0: And then they shut it down, yeah. speaker-2: that teaches you, that makes you live, because that's what we're here for, to live and experience things. speaker-0: Exactly. It's through living that you learn. more that you learn, yeah. The more that you learn and the more that you go out and you experience life, the more you realize that there's a lot of things that we're doing that's just the right way. You know, we don't need to get into politics at ⁓ ⁓ a matter of fact, ⁓ Panik, when the world gets noisy, speaker-2: Exactly, so I- speaker-0: I promise you, I go to your Instagram feed and I just watch you making beats, It brings me peace. speaker-2: Yeah. ⁓ man, thanks. ⁓ speaker-1: When did you start doing the digging in the floppies? speaker-2: ⁓ I start, actually I was living in Texas because in Texas I had a lot of free time. And, ⁓ I actually, when I was living, I lived in Texas for nine years and I had a lot of free time. So I got into gardening. I gave, became a really good gardener. was grilling and smoking meats. I became really good at that. But another thing that I became good at is I never learned how to play instruments. So I learned how to play guitar and I learned how to play bass. So then my next thing was like, well, I need to start doing videos, know, putting them on YouTube and on social media. So I was like, what can I do that's me? And that's when I came up with that. I well, OK, I got all these floppies and I got my MPC and I started just recording. At the beginning, the videos look not that good because I just, you know, but as you grow, the video started becoming a little bit more cleaner and more flowing better. But yeah, I started doing that. At about, what was it, 2018 or under? Yeah. Yeah, but that's what I did. I was like, I have these discs of sincerely or it's okay. Let me make a video of how I did it and chop it up and show people how I did it. speaker-1: Some of the dopest beats, dude. I'm like, listen, man, I'm tell you a quick story, right? So in 2000, it was like around 2000, 2001, whatever. I'm at the Buddha Lounge and it was open mic Monday night. Monday nights were open mic night and then we're ciphering around the side or whatever. And we got a circle going and I'm going and all of a sudden I feel this arm around me and we're like bobbing and like we're in the zone and I look to my right and it's juice. speaker-2: May. speaker-1: And like, so I still got this right here. So he came up, you know, he'd autographed it for me. And then I'm going back and I'm digging through your Instagram and I realized that you did Freestyler Ritten. For me, Freestyler Ritten changed the game for me. Because I know, know, Juice did his thing with the Rap Olympics with Eminem. But like that was like Freestyler Ritten as a battle MC was like... speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: was my shit dude. And then I'm like, damn, fucking panicked at this one too. And I'm like, and then I'm like, yeah, he did. Cause I could hear it, the pianos and like the beauty and the simplicity, but there's so many layers to these beats, man. And I'm like, sincerely and the stuff you do with Valkyrie and like, then, man, I'm geeking out, man. I'm sorry. Slug and Prime with... Like there's these joints, man, that are like... speaker-0: Go in speaker-1: It was like, along my timeline as ⁓ an MC and as just a human being, you can notch your sound in a lot of that timeline for me, man. So like your beats, like you said, you went to Sincerely and I'm like, man, the beats are sick, dude. I can't lie, man. speaker-2: It's funny because I got a really good memory. I can remember things from when I was five years old, living in Little Village. sometimes there's... I still remember when I made, ⁓ for example, Lansome by Cali Agents. I was at my apartment and I made the beat and right after that I went to go work at Gramophones. So I just remember that day. It was a summer day and it was like... When I did Sincerely, I was at NUR. And we came back from WNUR doing the show with Kevin DiCiom. I got home around, that show ends around two or some shit like that. So I got home around three in the morning and I made that beat at night. And then I woke up and I was like, whoops, sincerely. So it's just weird how some shit happens. And here's the thing about Freestyle of Written. I know because I made it and I was at the studio, but it's full of mistakes. Yeah, it's full of mistakes on the mixing and on the editing of the record. It's full of mistakes, but it doesn't matter because that's another thing that I learned. It's like, it's a mistake to me, but it wasn't a mistake to nobody else. Us as artists, always want everything perfect. We want everything to be done a certain way, but people don't listen to music like we do as artists, you know? So that's the And I understood that. That's the one thing about me. Like, I have an open mind and I could get out of myself and put myself in other people's mind states and ears and tastes, you know? So was like, nah, let's just put it out. I don't care about mistakes. And it didn't matter. I did. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: That's a lot of how I approach my career too, like making films and stuff. I've gotten comfortable with understanding that this is where I am as a filmmaker. This is where I am right now. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: And so hopefully you enjoy it. ⁓ But even if you don't, I'm coming out with something new in a little bit anyway. Yeah. This is where I am right now. And folks, creative folks are their own worst critic. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Thank speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-0: Be comfortable just letting something go. Just get it out the door. speaker-1: I think that's a big problem now, like with music, you're, you know, with AI and like recording so simple now, you could run it through filters and all this other stuff. Everybody wants, everybody wants some, something that sounds like perfection, right? Straight out of the gate. And when something like, I'll go, I'll go on the booth and I don't really know much about mixing. For my ear, I could kind of, I could get by, but to the, to the guys that are going to critique it, that know it, they're like, yeah, there's the mistakes there and there. But for somebody that just wants to consume music, They're like, this is dope. Okay, I could get down with this. like, what's, so like, I guess my question would be, what is it like now making, like, could you put Freestyle or Ritten out right now, knowing that you made all those mistakes or like, you know what I'm saying? speaker-2: Yeah, yeah, because I hate to say it this way, but I don't give a fuck. When I make something, I just... speaker-0: That's perfect. That's a perfect way to say it. speaker-2: I'm going go with the flow person, you know what I mean? Because there's a story behind everything. You have to make the story. It's like me saying, ⁓ OK, let's just say I'm Michael Jordan. It's like saying, hey, ⁓ I made the last shot at the game six at Utah. No. He started with his brother in his house beating him up, and his brother was better at ⁓ basketball than him. And when he beat his brother, his brother beat his ass. So that's how it started. It didn't start with him at Utah. So that's what everything. You have to make mistakes. If you don't make mistakes, you don't grow. ⁓ You don't improve. And people like seeing that story. That's a story. You can write a book about everything that you do. It's like a chef. When he first cooks, he burns the rice. And then, yeah, he gets better at it. And then he gets a Michelin star. But that's the story. speaker-1: Cooks. speaker-2: You know, you're making films at the beginning, they look this way, but you're growing and you're getting better and people see your progression because they become fans of your films. So they're like, Hey, remember this guy when he did his film at the beginning, but look at him now. You people want to be able to tell a story if they don't, you know, they don't want to just tell you the end of the story. They want to see it from the beginning. that's what art is or anything. speaker-0: People like to geek out on some of early work. speaker-2: Exactly. Sometimes your best works at the end, sometimes the best works at the beginning. Depending on who's listening to it. speaker-0: Just put it out there. Put it out there. And that's what's crazy is it depends on who you're talking to. There's going to be one group that's like, yeah, that's the best thing. And the other people are going to be like, nah, that was fine. And then vice versa. Just put it out there. Find your people. speaker-2: And here's one thing that I too. Yeah. Yeah. Here's one thing that I learned from two stories I'm going to say and I'll say it real quick. hip hop didn't go platinum, when the first platinum record was Walk This Way by Run DMC, okay? They didn't want to do that song. His brother, Russell Simmons, forced them to do that song. So it's like, you know, sometimes as an artist, you're so much focused in... speaker-1: doing. speaker-0: We're here all day. speaker-2: being an artist that you forget about some other people see this vision, know, so you got to just go with the flow. Sometimes I remember Paul McCartney. They did a weeping guitar, whatever one of those songs and their producer was like, Paul McCartney, Paul McCartney, they don't want the violins on this certain song. And his producers like, no, man, you know, put the damn violins and. And that's a big part of that song, you know? I forgot, I think it's Whippy, Willow, or one of them fucking songs. But it's like a really famous song. So it's like, sometimes you just gotta go with the flow. And stop thinking about it too much. That's the thing. Yeah, go ahead. speaker-0: Let me ask you. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. speaker-2: No, no, I'm Go ahead, ask me. speaker-0: Okay, I was gonna ask you ⁓ With the exception of a handful of people, you have Kanye, you have ⁓ Common, you have whomever. But you don't have, like the magnitude of people that came out of New York making records was ridiculous. And then when hip hop made it to LA, you had a crazy amount of LA people and then the bae, ba ba. Why does it seem like... Chicago, not that we haven't had any breakouts again. I Chicago MCs and music makers against anybody. what is it? Why is it so difficult for people to pop off coming through Chicago? speaker-2: That's a good question that I really don't know the answer to, but it could be a lot of factors. speaker-0: What are you talking about? I make records all the time! speaker-2: It could be a lot of factors, you know. It's not easy. know. ⁓ Industry wise, there's no industry here, you know. But ⁓ it takes a really deep love, you know. And you have to expect nobody to ever listen to your music. You got to go into that mentality. You know, you got to go into the mentality that nobody's ever going to give a fuck. You have to do it not for the money. Not to listen to your you want to do it. Exactly. And then that naturally comes out. That love for it naturally comes out. And then people gravitate towards you. You might make the billions of dollars, or might go triple platinum, 50 Grammys. But first you got to start with the mentality of, I'm doing it for me. And because I love the music. But it's a lot of factors. know, lot of people, we compete against each other. speaker-0: Yeah Mm-hmm. speaker-2: ⁓ you know, venues sometimes and radio stations and you know, all that stuff that goes on a lot of factors. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah, music politics. speaker-2: But when you think of LA, you think of New York, there's industries there, know, on both of those sides of the coast. speaker-0: Yeah. But like as tight as, well, let me say it like this. The amount of flex that people from Chicago have, like if you're from Chicago and you go literally anywhere on the planet, everybody's going to know that you're from Chicago. That's one of the first things we always say. Yeah. But having, having that, having that culture of being proud of being from Chicago, you would think like folks would be like, Hey, speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: We're from Chicago. Let's make it pop off. Atlanta did it. New York did it. LA did it. The Bay did it. Houston did it. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Thank speaker-2: Yeah, it's a good question though. Like I said, I don't have an answer to it. I could just put up factors, but I really don't. But you think about it, if you really think about it, since I started and to this day, people still haven't figured it out totally. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: There's a lot of crabs in the barrel. like, you know, again, the politics, want to, you know, I gotta get mine. And then there's that. I mean, and you know, it's unfortunate too, cause like you go to New York and everybody, everybody like, if you could take Wu-Tang for instance, like the reason wanted everybody to sign to different labels so they can infiltrate everybody, right? And then, and then they, they branched out and they got their little offspring clicks and things like that. And Dre did it with that throw and like, You know, they did it and then they started doing it with, you know, down south and again in Texas. But Chicago never really did that. They never had enough footing. Like Psycho Drama went down to Houston with 8 Ball and they kind of did their thing and then Twista had to go to New York and like, you know, a lot of guys had to leave like common, you know, and there was, again, there's no industry here other than you could be the king of the underground. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Do you guys think, cause you know, you know, we got, we will call it street politics. Yeah. Do you think street politics plays a role in keeping someone from like building industry back home? Everybody's Did I ask a question that someone told you guys not to answer? ⁓ speaker-1: Mother. I was told not to speak about that. speaker-2: ⁓ My battery was going down so I plugged in my phone to charge my battery so I didn't get the question again. Could you repeat it again? speaker-0: ⁓ what was it? ⁓ You know how Chicago is notorious for having what we'll call street politics? speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Do you think the gangbanging culture has anything to do with ⁓ keeping industry from growing in Chicago? And it's not even just the gangbangers either. Kind of like when they were going to put the Star Wars museum on the lake and friends of the park had their hand out. It might even be just as simple, but it'd be fun to figure out with so much talent. And we have business people too. Panik is a businessman. ⁓ this is weird. And I wonder, I wonder if like the street politics has anything to do with. like getting records made at back home. speaker-2: It could anything could play a part in it because every environment is different, you know? But, but if you think about it, there was always street politics in New York. There was street politics in New York. Street politics in Cali. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Hey Panik, your microphone is a little off. There you are. Okay. Yeah, we're good now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: And speaker-2: Okay, cool. So I don't know if the street politics has that much to do with it because there's crime everywhere and there's organized organizations everywhere. Let's just put it that way. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Like I said earlier, you got when you got people like people on the Northsiders, the backpackers, they really never messed with the guys from the South side. And then neither the guy or the Northsiders never messed with the guys from the West side. There's a lot of that, but there's a lot of talent in both areas. You know what I'm saying? And but they never really let let's say, let's just all come together and make something happen. You know what I'm saying? speaker-2: See, but here's my thing. I always went everywhere. I always went to the north side. I always went to the west side. I always went to the south side. If it wasn't for me going to the south side, I never would have met Vakil and, and Edge 13 and Twisted and all those people. I never would have went to WHPK. And if I would have never went to the west side, I never would have went to certain record stores that are very important for like finding records in the west side. I used to go to Iowa. I went everywhere where I needed to go for hip You know, I remember one time in my early stages, we used to produce for this group that was funded by an organization on the South Side. His manager was part of the organization. So it's like, I went everywhere where hip hop needed to be and where I needed to get my music to network with people, you know? So that was the thing that, I don't know if everybody had that mentality, but that's just how I dealt with it. I've never... I've never been afraid of meeting people and going places where maybe I shouldn't go, but hip hop made me blind and I used to put myself in situations where I didn't need to be in. That's what it was for the love of hip hop. speaker-1: Good luck. 100%. speaker-0: That's it. And you're meeting up with other people that have love for hip hop. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: And that's that networking that, so whatever it is, whatever we're missing back home, the networking that's actually making us be able to together to create this industry. Cause yes world, you want music, you want music that Panik has made. I can guarantee you this. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-2: But you think about it. Yeah, you think about it now. It's easier. You don't need a budget. You don't need instruments. You don't need radio stations. So what's keeping us? speaker-0: It'd just be dope. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: We don't even speaker-1: The industry now is just... 100 % fact. speaker-0: You know what I'm saying? speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: The industry is so different. The industry is so different now. You could tell now you need more of just of a fan base rather than actual talent. You know what I'm saying? speaker-0: Yeah, there's a lot of that too. And I know as far as films and pitching to Netflix and stuff like that, a lot of the folks, a lot of the first questions are going to be what's your social media numbers look like? So they want you to do all the work what I'm trying to tell you is there they want you to do all the work So then they can give you a little bit of money and figure out how to take that money back from you So you might as well cut out the middleman and just do the work Just do the work and then go get a friend speaker-2: Yeah, because they're looking at it from a McDonald's perspective. How many burgers have you sold as opposed to, yes, a really good burger? speaker-0: Right. That's why we have a lot of these mush mouth rappers out here now that are making, they say it's music, but I can't understand that one word you're saying. You're not teaching me anything. You're giving me empty calories. speaker-1: Dover Yeah, a bunch of junk food from my ears. speaker-2: You speaker-1: Hey Panik, who are some of your favorite producers? speaker-2: I'm just gonna go with the basics. I mean, as far as hip-hop... speaker-1: Yeah, anything actually. I'll go with it. speaker-2: Okay, well, I mean, I have to say Quincy Jones. That's one of the persons. ⁓ there's a lot of Italian composers from like soundtracks from the seventies that I really liked their music. ⁓ it's a Manuel Alejandro. He's from Mexico, I think. And, ⁓ but if we want to talk about hip hop, well, I have to say DJ Premier, ⁓ RZA, ⁓ digging in the crates. who else? ⁓ Pete Rock, large professor, know, basic. ⁓ well, I started, ⁓ I started it with one of my friends, with two of my high school friends, ⁓ mixed massacre. He was at the beginning of the moment. And then, ⁓ my friend rest in peace, Juan, he was more like a manager networking type of guy. So we both went to Sheriffs high school and we both, ⁓ we got it together like that. And Juan used to, he used to be a big house guy. So he used to go on a flea market on division and Pulaski. And I started going with him there. So we met this guy Aztec where he's still around. He raps and stuff. And he told us about some meetings on the South side. So we went with him. And that's where I met Ashter T, Vaquil, and just everybody from the South side. So after that, I got Vaquil's number. And he joined Momin and just kept going like that. speaker-1: I'll to neural. speaker-0: ⁓ hell yeah. speaker-1: That's what's up. speaker-2: Started going to the studio. Sorry, we used to go to the studio. used to take a crater records and make the record there. I used to tell the guy, the engineer to sample for us. Sample as this record, this little piece right here. And he didn't know what the hell he was doing and we didn't know, but that's how started. speaker-0: That's how you do it though. I got to talk into, that would on Yabule from brother man comics. He said, the reason the size of my comic books are a little bit bigger than the comic books that the normal comic books is because I just didn't know. He went and he picked up a magazine and he designed his comic book off of a magazine, the dimensions of a magazine. He just didn't know. but he didn't let that stop him. It's like one foot, one foot next to the, all right, there's this thing called sampling. Here's some records. Grab this little clip. Okay. ⁓ speaker-2: But you know what I speaker-0: All of a sudden you got a whole record company. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. But you know what I realized when I looking at ⁓ at the careers of like early hip-hop producers They were doing the same thing They were telling the engineer to sample for him. So I was like, okay, I wasn't that That ⁓ you know, whatever Everybody started that from the beginning. Yeah speaker-1: That's how I used to make my show CDs. I used to go to the homie's house and he'd be the only guy that knew how to use Acid Pro. And I'm like, yeah, I need these songs. Let's fade these in and all this other stuff. But I mean, you always got to... And then, I mean, you just find a way to make it happen. Like, this is how I want it to sound. know, like, that's what you do, man. ⁓ Aztec is about to be on the show too, man. He just dropped a movie actually yesterday. The second movie. So, yeah, he'll be on the show. speaker-0: his second. Yeah, shout out Aztec dude, cause making movies is tough. And these are, these are like full length feature films he's making. speaker-2: Yeah, let's go. speaker-0: Hell yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, but me and Assi speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. That's what's up, man. He's always been around, like always. One way or the other. I was running in circles outside, like always in parallel circles with everybody, like, you know, running in lanes. And I'm like, man, like one connection away, like, you know, and we started, we started maybe like the end of 2010 or somewhere around 2010, we started, we started hanging out. But he's just a genuinely good dude. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: And again, seeing people do what they love to do, especially at this stage of the game is amazing. speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. speaker-0: Do you make music full time? speaker-2: Not right now, no, but I do it whenever. Yeah, I guess it's complicated. I live, my life is very, it's me, it's me, as I like to say. So I guess I could, at any moment of my day, I could make a beat. If that tells you, that's full time. Another thing's done. speaker-0: Right. Yeah. No, I just wanted to, I wanted to see, cause like if you were running Mollman full time and that was your gig and that's all you did versus it's Mollman, but then you still have to have, ⁓ it's basically like the startup mentality, right? You have a full time job and then you have your passion company. speaker-2: Yeah, it's kind of like that right now. Let's see. speaker-0: Yeah. What what are some of the things how far do you want to take the moment brand? speaker-2: Well, I want to take it to me till I die. Because I told you like I told you earlier I make it because I want to So so I might make money off of it or I might not but I'm doing it because I want to you know And I think that's how it should be done always But ⁓ as I as I'm growing up and I'm getting wiser with life and everything like it's part of me. I don't want to let it go speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: But I also have to make money and take care of certain things in my life. For example, I take care of my mother. She's in her 80s. that's why. So different things in my life, but I'm bringing music with me all the time. It's part of my every day and my every week. I came to a conclusion as I get older, I do it because I want to. So that's why when you ask me how far you want to take it to, to the day that I die. Because it's not about money, it's about time. And time is more valuable than money. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. How big do you want to try to grow it? Do you want to just keep making beats and working at your own pace? do you want to, like, let's say, let's say, Mollman was the crack in the dam that is Chicago's ⁓ challenge to, like blowing up like Atlanta did. And having and and having the group the stable of rappers that New York does or LA does would would Can you picture? Moment records being like that that first little peak that pushes through and then it like busts through the bubble and then Like all of a sudden people are taking Chicago hip-hop music a little more seriously speaker-2: I'll be honest with you. I think that time has passed. I think it was at its strength in the 2000s, the early 2000s. I ⁓ think that time has passed, but it doesn't mean that we're not significant or I'm not significant no more. speaker-0: No, you're part of history. Period. ⁓ speaker-2: It just means that the way I take it for me personally, I have to do it my own way, my interpretation of how I'm gonna carry music and the art with me. It's just that way, but there's plenty of people here making music that are up and coming and that are new. There's a lot of dope artists that I see, that I pay attention to that are doing things. For example, I really like Vic Spencer because he's a hardworking individual and he's dope and he's a good dude, you know? Like a really good dude. I don't really know him that well, but just on a scene in social media that he works with the youth and he seems to be like really good family guy. ⁓ speaker-0: to his... And it seems like he comes out with a record every week and a half. That dude works. speaker-2: that. How could you not respect and admire that? know, so that's, you know, I like that kind of stuff, you know, so, but, but I think speaker-0: He's got the perfect shit-talking rapper voice too. speaker-2: Yeah, but if I was to guess why he does it is because it's part of him But it's cuz he wants to and I think that's how me if you be done. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I've worked with musicians that, that are their focus isn't the music. It's always, you know, during the conversation, it's always like, how many likes and Ooh, how many money, how many dollars and all this stuff. And you're like, bro, you're setting yourself up for failure. speaker-2: And the music is always going to sound that way. Because music comes from your soul and your mental state. When I started with music, if I wasn't thinking about how dope Large professor is, and Pete Rock and I want to do something like that, if I would have been like, ⁓ I need to get money, I need to get signed to a record label, my music wouldn't sound that way. But I was more into like, Yeah. Wow. My head is blown listening to Come Clean, the way Premier made that beat or Nas' Illmatic my God. ⁓ ⁓ I was listening to the capitalist part of it, then my music would sound... ⁓ wouldn't be talking about nothing right now. ⁓ speaker-1: You probably wouldn't be on the show panicked, not lie. ⁓ speaker-0: We have standards Panik. speaker-2: Exactly. We wouldn't be talking about shit. speaker-1: That's it though, man. When you're passionate about something, it doesn't matter if the profits are there or not. Like you said, man, you're doing it because you love to do it. It's a part of you. It's an extension of you. And it's therapy. If we didn't have these outlets and these resources, if I didn't have a pen and a pad, or if I couldn't just spit something off the top of my dome because I just want to do it, then I'd go crazy. You know, and I don't know what you would be like if you didn't have a beat machine anymore. You'd be pounding, you know, the refrigerator and the table. speaker-0: If you're not following Panik on Instagram, please follow him on Instagram so you can see. He takes his beat machine. He'll be in the middle of the wilderness making beats. speaker-2: Yeah, I a I Made this I made this beat I still got an editing because I made an edited version of it But I took my beat machine my beat machine. This is a joke. This is but but this is a fucking joke You're gonna laugh right now, but my beat machine my machine actually is the native instrument machine I bought that like in 2005 when the first one came out It's all broken and fucked up. But that's the one I do my videos with. It's not plugged and there's buttons missing off of it. But I record with it. While you have other people doing videos with the newest, brightest ⁓ plugins and the newest updates and everything, I still got the old ass beat down machine from, and it's unplugged and I make a video with it. And they always ask me, sometimes kids ask me on the videos, ⁓ this is fake. It's not plugged. I'm like, yeah, it's a video. It's a movie. It's like Al Pacino. speaker-0: It's kind of like a music video. Don't let me ruin this for you. Spoiler alert, Superman doesn't really fly. speaker-2: Santa Claus doesn't exist. speaker-1: Aw man, hell, I'm off the show. I'm out. speaker-2: You speaker-0: Your parents paid for those gifts. speaker-1: Right? Your mama was really kissing Santa Claus. speaker-2: So, but when we think about it, a lot of these beat videos that are on social media, they're not that real either. I mean, they're content. They're creative content. speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, because if everyone saw what it took to actually develop a beat. speaker-1: If it sounds speaker-2: Yeah, you're not going to make it in 30 seconds. This guy. So it didn't take a fucking hour, a minute or 30 seconds to, know, it isn't a YouTube short, man. It's it was done in about four hours, maybe two weeks. Who knows? speaker-0: be bored. Right, it's a program. Yeah. Hey Panik, how many beats do you have developed and ⁓ ready for an artist to like, if I was an artist, and I wanted to take a look at your library, how many how many how many sound files am I looking at? speaker-2: Well, it's more like how many sound files I'm going to dig up for you to listen to. Because I have so many that I could always like, I could sell 100 beats right now and I could go into my hard drives and, oh, I haven't heard this in 10 years, you know, and just like that. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I asked Panik, I'm like, yo Panik, send me that beat. He goes, all right, hold on, I gotta delete like mad shit to move shit. I'm like, all right, cool, man, I don't want you to. He's like, I got the. speaker-2: Yeah, man. speaker-0: for watching. Yes, everybody. He slipped it in there. C4 is gonna be rapping on a Panik on the beat ⁓ speaker-2: Beat. ⁓ speaker-1: It's gonna take 30 seconds too. Watch. speaker-2: Yeah, we're going to write that rhyme in 30 seconds. speaker-0: Yeah. So if an artist did want to work with you Panik, what does that look like? They would reach out to you and what's that process look like? speaker-2: Well, they would reach out to me and I would send him or her them ⁓ files. They'll explain to me what they're looking for and I'll have something for them, a nice amount of things for them listen to in that range and that ⁓ style. And every situation is different, but mostly that's how it goes. speaker-0: Are you the kind of guy like you sitting on the on the couch watching Survivor and you're just with their beat machine? Just you just keep making beats after beat after beat. speaker-2: No, but I'm the type of guy that I might be watching Survivor and I turn it off to go make a beat. Or I might get up in the morning and be like, boom. speaker-0: Bada boy. Yeah. Do you have like a studio that you like to go into? Like when you're, what's your creative process like? speaker-2: I'm about to tell you this, it's hilarious. It's really hilarious, but I keep my life really simple. I don't have a gym. I don't go to Planet Fitness and I don't go to a studio. I have Planet Fitness in the studio in my room. speaker-0: Yeah. So, yeah. speaker-2: Why? Why? Because I want to make things easy for me, right? So if I want to create something, I could just sit here in my desk and start making music. I have my guitar, my samplers, everything right here. I just turn on the equipment and I start making. If I want to work out, I have some dumbbells right here that I look and I feel guilty if I don't use them and the days go by, I use them. And I don't have to take a gym picture, nothing. I just do this shit right here, it gets done. Boom, done. Part of my job, you know, when I go out, I don't have a car. I walk, I walk a lot. But why? Because I want to get my 10, 20,000 steps a day, you know? And when I was in my mid-20s, was a, no wait, I was 226 pounds. I'm 155 pounds now. Why? Because I made my life easier. It's a mental state and it's a routine thing and you're focused on everything. So that's how I live my life. I do the things that I love and I keep it simple, you know? speaker-0: This is this is such important lessons for younger people to pay attention to Especially if you're trying to be a creative there's nothing more ⁓ that will kill your creativity than friction. And let me explain. That's why Steve Jobs always wore the same outfit. That's why all these really smart people, they streamline things. That's why they wear black shirts and jeans. You don't need to make the decision on what you're wearing anymore. It's already there. And that's why they'll have, you know, 30 black t-shirts and 30 pairs of jeans. because of this, this approach, that Panik just got done talking about. You have to get that friction out so you can get through your life. And then the friction, when you get to your creative part, the friction part is gone. speaker-1: I we're I that have to Panik about, no pun intended, right? Like it's not there. ⁓ yeah, man, ⁓ can see that. if it takes you ⁓ hurdles to get to just the start of like, say, ⁓ press record, it's gonna deter you from wanting to go press record, right? Like the whole process, if you can get, ⁓ you said, if he wants to go to work out in the gym or if he wants to make a beat, ⁓ steps in. the same place that he goes to sleep at. like, you know what I'm saying? One stop shop. If I need to get it out, I could get it out. speaker-0: there. Welcome back. Yeah. speaker-2: When you're my age, like a bunch of things happen, you know? That's all I got to speaker-0: whole bunch of things. How old are you? speaker-2: But I'm 54. speaker-0: Okay. You and I could have gone to high school together. As a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, ⁓ when you said sure's, I remember I played baseball for Roosevelt. And I remember we were. Yeah. I remember going to play sure's and the grown ass men that got off that school bus to play baseball. I was like, what is happening as sure's these mugs came out like just. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Grown ass men. speaker-1: What's a dude doing with all these crates in a baseball game? speaker-0: Hey Panik, how many artists are you working with the under the moment umbrella? speaker-2: You want me to be honest? you want me to laugh? Zero. Zero? At the moment, zero. speaker-0: the Yeah. You're working with Vaquilla and those guys? Or you guys, you haven't done any projects or anything? speaker-2: We don't, we're not working on any project right now, Baku is one of the original members, like, me and him go way back, you know? So it's like, if he tells me, hey, let's start working on something. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: But you know I know that we're all like at certain ages and a lot of things are going on with our lives. So that's that's that's the part about speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: But individually, I make music every day or often. Individually, me, I could only speak for me. I'm always on some type of musical thing. speaker-0: Yeah. Have you always been musically inclined? Have you always been attracted to listening to always listening to music? Yeah. Yeah. Cause again, like when you talk to some young folks, like, or even a better example is, being a 3d artist and you're going to, I've talked to people that do this. speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, yeah, that's it. speaker-0: They wanna go work at a video game company, but they don't play video games. What are you doing with your life? speaker-2: Before before I started making music I was a fan of music before I started making hip-hop I was a fan of hip-hop and I'm good at cooking food before I started cooking food I used to study you know cooking really whatever I get into ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. That's smart people stuff right there, And it sounds so simple. It sounds so simple. Just study. It sounds so simple, but there's so many people that don't. speaker-2: And here's another smart people thing. I did the cooking, the grilling, the music, and the hip hop. Why? Because I loved it. And I did it because I loved it. speaker-1: Ta da! speaker-0: When I tell you Panik simplifies his life, boy. He's got this streamlined son. speaker-2: So it's really simple. speaker-1: Pass what's up. speaker-0: Yeah, and I mean, that's why, again, as a creative person, ⁓ when you take all that friction out, you know, I can open up Photoshop and I have buttons that I can click that'll do a whole process. So I don't have to go file, save as, export, blah, blah, blah. I just hit one button and the computer goes, and all of a sudden everything is done. I just saved myself 15 minutes of button clicking. speaker-1: Sure. speaker-2: But why did that happen though? speaker-0: Because I'm gonna I'm gonna be working in Photoshop no matter what because that's I love to do it speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: You know, a big thing is like everybody wants to learn the shortcut. Everybody wants to learn the shortcut. But if they don't know why the shortcut exists, it Like, you know what I'm saying? Like you'll get to a point where the shortcut doesn't work or, you know, it doesn't make sense for this certain particular thing or you can't do anything on the fly. like in, it's like in life, man, if you don't know how to do it the right way. It's gonna show it and it's gonna show in your work. It's gonna show that you're not prepared. It's gonna show in your meal or whatever. speaker-0: Especially nowadays, especially nowadays where AI is becoming a thing, because people are going to try to leverage AI to make movies and even music, and we can get into that. But you can use AI to make a movie, but if you're writing is trash, it's going to be a trash movie. You just wasted your time. speaker-1: Yeah. It's crazy, man. I just had this conversation with my cousin because he's he's at the crib, he makes beats, he raps too, but he's like, don't, he doesn't have a studio. So he's like, ⁓ man, I created this AI artist. So I write, I make the beats and I write the music. And I was like, man, I don't know how I feel about that. speaker-0: How you feel about AI and music, Penning? speaker-2: Evolution is gonna happen whether I like it or not. So the thing is it How are we gonna deal with that? How is the individual gonna deal with that? How is society gonna deal with that? I don't have nothing against AI, but you still The human part still has to go in there somewhere That's the difference maker speaker-1: was really happy that he actually, he made the beat, he wrote the lyrics, and then, you know, he didn't have an artist. And I understand, like, if you don't have a particular someone to fit that voice, and you still want to create, and he's still passionate about it. You know what saying? He's not letting his passion die because he can't find that voice. You know what I'm saying? So in that regard, I I commend him for that. and kind of adapting with what's going on in technology and things like that. So he is adding that human element, but he's not going to get the flaws that a singer has, you know what I'm saying? Because everything's going to be polished. speaker-0: Think of it like this. Think of it like this. You remember back when Sammy Sosa was playing? ⁓ boy was juiced. He had neck muscles bulging out from under his jersey. He came out looking like a gigantic gorilla and he's like, no, I'm not juicing. Right? But he still had to go out and play baseball. Right? AI is the same thing. speaker-2: Ha ha! speaker-1: Cherry grow head muscles. speaker-0: But it's what do you want to be known as? Right? ⁓ If you want to be known as an AI music maker, then go make music with AI. I come to Panik because I love what Panik does. I love flavor of music that he puts. Like Bad Bunny said, con el sazón ⁓ You know, so yeah, you can go and do AI stuff and stuff like that, but, ⁓ you still, like Panik said, you still need that human touch. I, I explained to someone how they can leverage AI to make a song. we, we went over the theory of it. I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your time or your career, ⁓ If you wanted to learn how to leverage AI in this, this is what I would do. ⁓ boy, went and had a conversation with AI. AI came out with the lyrics. but it was lyrics written by a computer. So you had to go and find a songwriter any goddamn way. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: If you want to be known as an animator, don't let AI do your animations. You can use AI for storyboards and to expedite some things, but if Panik wants to be known as a music maker, as a producer, as all that stuff, he's not gonna, he's gonna use the tools, but it's not gonna be the, it's not gonna be the main thing. Otherwise I can just go to AI to get the same exact thing. speaker-2: Yeah, it's like I was telling you guys about Freestyle or Written. I told you guys, it was full of mistakes. AI is not going to make mistakes. That's it. speaker-0: Go. Yeah. And some people like it and some people don't. what's the, there's Timbaland, he's got a, he's got an AI artist. He's, he's one of the first big producers to sign a, ⁓ or to create. don't know his process cause I think that's foolish. I think that's foolishness, but speaker-1: AI just jacked somebody's beat too. Timbaland did a video on it where he was making the beat that AI did and the producer was like, yo, that's my beat. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Even AI's back in beats. speaker-0: Shout out Ice Cube, that's one of my favorite hip hop speaker-1: for B- speaker-2: Shit. speaker-0: I'm like damn bro. speaker-1: AI took my shit. Like what the f- speaker-0: Yeah Yeah, you think that you think that AI is only gonna be stealing art like drawing and drawings and stuff like that naw, son. is stealing everyday is stealing It's stealing careers speaker-1: AI be like, look, I got this dope track, it's called Freestyler Written. speaker-2: At the end of the day, it's gonna steal humanity, you know? speaker-0: It's gonna try. It's gonna try. Yeah, we ain't ready. speaker-2: You speaker-1: There was a video I saw that said he has a jailbroken AI, I think it was like Grok or whatever, chat GPT, and he said, if I was about to flip a switch to end AI right now, would you kill me? He's like, yes. I'm like, oh shit. speaker-0: Yeah. Every single computer that they have talking to other computers using AI, every single one, this is the process. They start communicating, then they create their own language, and then they talk about how they're going to kill humans. Every single time. speaker-1: You see the movies? It's awesome. Seems like. speaker-2: It's just part of evolution. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, instead of leveraging things like AI to, again, experience life in a better way, learning, you know, like, ⁓ Panik can reach out and be like, Hey, AI, I want to make a dish from Japan. Yeah. AI be like, yeah, go get some fish, go get some rice, go get some this, go get some that and let's roll. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Instead of doing that, people are like, AI, can you make me some sushi? speaker-2: Yeah speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: But that's the laziness of humanity though because we're just getting everything easier. Everything's easier now. It's getting to a point where we're not gonna have jobs, we're not gonna drive cars, we're not making music, we're not even gonna taste food later, we're not even gonna fuck later. What is it? What's the point of living? speaker-0: What is the point? That's why I'm glad I'm old. Seventies were dope, son! speaker-2: That's what I'm saying! That's what I'm saying. By the time I'm dead, it's over. But hey, I got my ass kicked. I was able to do different things and fail and succeed and feel things and read books. ⁓ Carry crates of vinyl. Do whatever. Play a real guitar. You know, whatever. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah. speaker-2: see sunlight. ⁓ speaker-0: No, yeah. No, even more, I mean, before the sun ever burns out, you know, we're looking at, we're looking at the reality of the situation is we might run out of fresh cleaning, fresh water because we're trying to cool off all these processors. speaker-1: percent. speaker-2: You Yeah, so he can make beats speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So Timbaland can sign an AI artist. speaker-2: We can make fucking cartoons of ourselves. speaker-0: This is what you would look like if you read Disney. If you're a Disney character. And I'm like, yeah, bullshit. I've worked on Disney projects. That person looks well rested. That is not real. speaker-2: ⁓ shit. Shit's crazy, man. speaker-1: and speaker-0: Panik, what was it like for you growing up in Chicago? speaker-2: Yeah, ⁓ gangs, ⁓ post-traumatic syndrome because of neighborhoods and gangs. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: Sports, know, a lot of crying and disappointments. What else you want to know? Taking a bus? I don't know. You have to watch out if you were wearing All-Stars, if the flaps were up or down, if your hat was right to the left. What colors you were wearing? speaker-0: Bro, for real. You know, when I first moved to LA, I looked around and I was like, yo, so basically, like, what are the rules? And everybody's like, what are you talking about? I said, no, no, no, no. What are the rules? Like in Chicago, you can't wear yellow and black. You can't wear red and black. You can't wear blue and black. You can't. And like specifically those colors. And they're like, no, that's like none of that. speaker-2: you speaker-0: don't have a red bandana dangling out of your pocket or whatever, but then pass that. I was like, bro, this is easy work. speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. Don't wear that. That be Paul's blue demon jacket, you know. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, bro my clothes when I went to high school my clothes were so colorful everybody thought I was colorblind. You're not catching me I'm a moving target. speaker-2: But you know what, that's the beauty of it, because you could tell a story. You know what mean? There's people that grew up in boring-ass neighborhoods. We could talk about, we grew up in Chicago and this. speaker-1: I just talked with, I was messaging with a guy that was on the show, Mike Rackinelli, right? And I'll write it down because we were talking about, I'm not getting into politics, but we're talking about contingency plans, right? And being able to adapt and go anywhere, right? And he was like, if you grew up in Chicago, you knew how to scrap and the threat assess better than 99 % of the people on the planet. I was like, 100%. You know how to adapt to any situation. speaker-0: Yeah, I remember I was... Go ahead, Panik. speaker-2: Let's see, straight. About three years ago, I got married to someone from a different country. So they came here to Chicago, and they're like, take a picture of this. Do this, right? And I'm like, looking around, this is, why are you acting that way, you know? I'm like, you don't know, I grew up in Chicago, you know? But she couldn't understand why I was so fucking paranoid, Even though I live in a decent neighborhood now, but like... But I'm like that, it's the way I grew up. We got chased, we got bricked, we got cars that, know, a Cutlass Supreme stopped with four guys and hey, what you be about? Different things, that shit was a daily thing for me. Even my brother as a kid, I was traumatized because my brother was a gangbanger and I was five years old and I see cars getting burned, police getting into my house with my mom and it was like. speaker-0: I know. speaker-2: But it was also beautiful. There was a lot of beautiful things about it too, you know? But that's part of it, you know? And that's how you said, you know, I'm from Chicago. I could adapt to different things. It's because of those things we grew up with. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now I remember walking to, I remember walking to school one day and these three dudes, one had a, one had a ⁓ bat, one had a chain, and one had like a by four, something country like that. And I'm walking and I'm walking and then, you know, you know, exactly Panik said, like when I'm walking down the street, I'll take look over my shoulder just to make sure, you know. ⁓ speaker-1: Flans, return. speaker-0: I look over my shoulder, I see these three dudes and one of them is like, hey, hey. I was like, oh hell. Threat assessment kicked right in. I turned around and I was like, all right, three dudes. The only avenue I have is back that way and I got to run fast as hell. I was like, f**k. I come to find out they're explaining to me that apparently I was in a different neighborhood the day before and I was pretty good at basketball and I was talking my s**t and they got upset. They got their feelings hurt. So now they're going to try to f**k me up because they don't know how to play basketball. speaker-2: shit you speaker-1: As you're running away, you still ain't got no J? Yeah. Out of here. speaker-0: No, and like they started, I was like, all right, what do I do? Like, do I just start swinging? Do I like run? Because if I run, they might catch me and all this stuff. And right when, right when they started surrounding me, one of my boys came running from the school. He was a big dude. He came running, Carlos running. And the guys were like, oh, I was like, yeah, what now, bitch? And then they took off running. speaker-2: Laughter speaker-0: But I damn sure pooped my pants that day. speaker-2: That's just that Chicago shit. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, and it informs the music because again, go and listen to Vic Spencer. He tells you he tells you what's happening speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: you know and then you got Aztec De Niro he's out there making music and he's telling stories of like now he's moving into film that's amazing speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: You got Prime and Rhyme Fest now in Olympics. speaker-0: in politics. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: That's what I'm saying, son. That's what I'm saying. speaker-1: He went from this is how we chill to school board president, Or running for school board. Beautiful, man. speaker-2: is speaker-0: I know even ⁓ prime didn't he pee on the stage or something? speaker-2: on someone at Navy Pier to be exact. speaker-0: They were battling and Prime took it out and just started pissing on them. speaker-2: We'll save that for his interview. speaker-1: Right speaker-0: be like, ⁓ hey, no. When he when he was running for alderman before he won the guy the incumbent, he used that story and he started using some of primes battle rap things against he's speaker-2: One day we were watching Channel 32 Fox and I'm watching the news with my mom. And they're like, this alderman ⁓ running for election, he used to be part of the moment and now he's raps about anti, he's wrapped anti-gay lyrics. And I'm like, mom, that guy used to be with us. Yeah, they were really going hard on that. He was a gangster rapper. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Like, you didn't know Prime. It was dope, but... speaker-2: You speaker-0: Could you imagine being a rapper and you're like, yeah, and you're trying to get in the flow and maybe you got in your first round and you're like, yeah, you're feeling good. And all of a sudden, dude starts pissing on your leg. Like, you ain't ever coming back. speaker-2: You speaker-1: on the debate stage. speaker-0: Could you imagine that? ⁓ We need to balance the budget and he takes out his dick and starts pissing on the other guy. Fuck your budget. these books. speaker-2: Holy shit. speaker-1: You never know what we're gonna talk about on this show. Dang. speaker-0: We never know what we're going to talk about. I had a question. Where did it go? Oh, it was about Aztec because you know, I like to big up anybody doing big things from Chicago. Yeah, but Aztec Aztec just released his movie Panik. Have you ever scored a movie or anything like that? speaker-2: I had music on TV. That's about it. Yeah, like one of my beats gone. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ nice. speaker-2: Yeah, I should remember the name of that show. It was a song with me in song one. It was the shy or something like that. One of them shows. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, that's about it. speaker-0: you Yeah. How cool was that though? speaker-2: Yeah it was cool watching it on TV and hearing, hey that's my beat right there. Yup. speaker-0: Yeah. How was it when you heard your music on the radio for the first time? speaker-2: I don't know. just, ⁓ I got used to it really fast. Yeah. Yeah. But it, but obviously it was, ⁓ it's nice. Yeah. Yeah. You know, me listening to it didn't affect me as much as people telling me they heard it on the radio. I like that part more. Like, ⁓ you know, on this, on this radio station on dad, or I heard you on this mixed tape. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: from New York or this and that. was like, ⁓ nice. I used to like hearing that part. speaker-0: Yeah. Getting that acknowledgement. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. Like when Vakil went on tour Europe and he went to Seville, Spain and he's like, man, I see none but moment shirts over there. I'm like, wow. Yeah. speaker-1: What's up, speaker-0: Have you ever performed or have you always just been a producer type? speaker-2: Let's not talk about that. Let's not talk about my short lived life. speaker-1: Does you pee on anybody? That's what we really want to know. speaker-0: Yeah, that's what I was trying to get to. That's funny. ⁓ speaker-1: He's laughing though, he's gonna smile on his face. speaker-0: ⁓ it looks like he's enjoying himself at least. speaker-1: It was a good conversation though. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that he's so humble and just so fucking cool about it. Like, bro, you're part of history. speaker-1: That's a lot of history right there. speaker-2: You speaker-1: There's a lot of guys that I like, just like me, you know what I'm saying? That just all they wanted to do was write rhymes. ⁓ they didn't have anybody to listen to. And he gave, he gave guys like us like that. He's like, when you, when you could put out, it wasn't, they didn't have a lot of these, man, instrumental CDs, like, you know what saying? And he would just put out like my older, my homies, my best friend, older brother is the one that used to go to Gramophone. ⁓ I talked to him today, I told him we were having Panik on the show. ⁓ was like, ⁓ he's like, yeah, dude, I got hundreds of his beats in my, you know, and he literally did. like, ⁓ I ⁓ logging in Cypher time, I'd be ⁓ my 40,000 hours for sure. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Hello? Oh my God. There you are. This is a disaster. You bet. speaker-0: Hello? Hello? speaker-1: See here, here's where we use AI to edit all that out. speaker-2: Yeah, need it. Hey, we need you, baby. We need you. ⁓ speaker-1: Come on. You can't spell Panik without AI, right? speaker-2: Ha ha! Exactly. Let's go. speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-0: Hey Panik, are some people in Chicago, ⁓ in Chicago, and then artists just worldwide that you would love to work with? speaker-2: Well, in Chicago, I mean, I love Twister. I never really worked with Twister. ⁓ Young Buck, think he's somebody else that I would like to work with. ⁓ Twister, Young Buck, maybe, who else? I mean, I never worked with Common. mean, Common. ⁓ Yeah, Common, Young Buck, Twister, people like that. I could think of two other people, but I can't. speaker-0: That'd be cool. speaker-2: at this particular moment, but yeah. speaker-1: I can hear ⁓ R.A. the Rugged Man over Panik beat. speaker-2: Yeah, I could hear him. As far as outside of Chicago, mean, let me cheat and say I want to work with Nas Jay Z. But I like to work with members of the Wu Tang. I love large professor and Lord Finesse, large professor. really like them. You know, people like that. speaker-0: Ha ha ha. speaker-1: I really appreciate you jumping on, man. Like I was telling Carlos, I was like, man, there's a bunch of MCs like me that all they wanted to do was listen to beats and freestyle, right? And just cipher, just write. And like my older cousin, he gave us a, he kept coming up, like, man, I went to Gramophone. And then he just like beats, beats. Like you're like one of the only guys that I knew of, right? That would... ⁓ and the moment would come out with just BTS. Man. Mad respect, bro. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, I would just love doing that, you know? Because that was just me. I would just love making beats. So I would just say, I would have so many beats, I'm like, well, let me put them on tapes. since I worked at Grammifo, I'm like, just start making a series of just all my beats on tapes. And then that's just how it became like that. Yeah. speaker-1: I know we've been having like a of glitches and technical stuff. ⁓ there anything that you want, shout out your social medias and whatever you're doing, you know, just where could we find Panik at? speaker-2: You know just put PA a Nik or put moment and it'll pop up anywhere you look for it You know most likely so that's I'm not there hard to find if you really want to find me speaker-0: I'm going find that rap career. speaker-1: I'm here. go find the Panik cipher. speaker-0: Yeah, he didn't like that joke. There he is. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Carlos was like, didn't like the, he's like, left because he wanted to find the cipher video. ⁓ speaker-2: Hahaha speaker-0: I wanted to see Panik rap. Panik was like, I'm out. speaker-2: I'm outta here, man. speaker-1: I'm having difficulties, I gotta go. speaker-2: Technical difficulties. speaker-0: All right, folks, sorry we keep having ⁓ technical difficulties, but we're going to have Panik back on. Panik is, you know, he's someone that we look up to. And he's definitely a beloved member of the Chicago hip hop family. He's very respected. ⁓ and he's just been doing it forever and he's just really good and he's explaining to you. He does it out of passion. He would be making music even if you weren't giving him money. speaker-1: Even if you weren't listening, he still made- speaker-0: Even if you weren't listening, which people do, that's a benefit. Yeah. so to me, this conversation, that's one of the biggest things that I got out of this conversation was exactly that. Like, he's going to be making beats. He's going to be making music. Even if there was nothing else for him to do, or if there was everything else for him to do, I guess it would be a better way to say it. He would still be making music. because he loves it that much. ⁓ And your work will reflect your intentions with your art. shout out to Panik. ⁓ Apologies ⁓ ⁓ the ⁓ troubleshooting and all the stuff that we did. It's just nuts. We've been trying to do... ⁓ speaker-1: You can't buy that. speaker-0: new stuff on this new software and it's, we're starting to see some of the challenges and stuff like that, but mad respect to Panik, mad respect to the mole men. ⁓ we heard the name Vakil. We heard the name, ⁓ Aztec De Niro, all you guys shout out to all those homies too, cause they're doing their thing. They're still making music and now Aztec is coming out with films, full feature films. I can't wait to talk to him about that stuff. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: C4, you want to share some of your last thoughts? speaker-1: ⁓ I started rhyming in 94, right? I was 14 years old and to come back and talk to somebody that was so influential that didn't know how influential he was in, in not even just music, but like in my therapy, in my mental state, you know what I'm saying? Like he, he helped my mental state and, ⁓ for any Any musician, whether they write or they make music or art or whatever the case may be, your influence goes beyond than what you think that it does. And no matter what, even if someone is listening or watching, continue to do what you love to do because that will resonate with somebody else. then, that's important, man. you know, for your mental health or for everyone around you. It's just a beautiful thing when you can create something that people appreciate just as much as you do and maybe even more. speaker-0: I'm even down to going back home and seeing if Panik wouldn't cook me something. Because if he's this meticulous and about his music, imagine what the food is going to be like. speaker-1: You think he's Dyson on beat? speaker-2: hahahaha speaker-0: No, it seems like now that now that I know Panik a little bit more and and Panik and I have met ⁓ through through the hip hop project back in the day. ⁓ But ⁓ the thing I've learned about Panik is that if he was cooking and chopping to the beat, it might be something like some Italian opera. Or is it be like, you know, some Indian song or what's that guitar that they play, the centaur or something? Some dude is shredding the centaur and Panik is just like, ⁓ speaker-2: Yes! speaker-1: You the German? That's what's up though, man. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. So shout out Panik, bro. We love your work. We love you. We love what you stand for. And I'm telling you, go to his Instagram. If you want to just a nice, musical, ⁓ from all the other shenanigans that's happening on Instagram, go visit Panik on Instagram, Do yourself a favor and watch him just ⁓ ⁓ Yeah, we found out that, that it's a little more, ⁓ set up a little more produced. He's not necessarily in the middle of the wilderness making beats, but something tells me he'd probably be in the middle of the wilderness making beats if he could. yeah. yeah. ⁓ Anyway, shout out Panik. ⁓ shout out moment. ⁓ And that, everybody, ⁓ we're ⁓ speaker-1: Peace. Coconut chest.