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The Nexus of ICE and Health Care · Paging America

0:14
SPEAKER_03: All right,
0:15
SPEAKER_03: everybody,
0:15
SPEAKER_03: welcome back to Paging America,
0:17
SPEAKER_03: where we explore the power,
0:18
SPEAKER_03: profit,
0:19
SPEAKER_03: and politics shaping American health care and what you can do about it.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Miles Baker, along with Dr. Rob Davidson.
0:25
SPEAKER_03: Dr. Rob, you're coming to us from a new location.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: Where are you at?
0:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm going to say good morning from tomorrow.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm down under.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: I'm in New Zealand right now, taking a bit of a spell here.
0:37
SPEAKER_03: Spent some time here,
0:38
SPEAKER_03: gosh,
0:39
SPEAKER_03: over a decade ago with the whole family,
0:40
SPEAKER_03: working a health care system with universal health care.
0:43
SPEAKER_03: Boy, that's an amazing thing.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: We can talk about that at some point.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so good morning from tomorrow.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: The future does not look that much better than the present.
0:52
I will tell you what,
0:53
the news headlines here are just as bad as what you're getting
0:55
right now.
0:56
i bet i bet i um are people are people have you run into anyone
1:01
talking about it
1:02
yeah about greenland yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah when we got our
1:06
rental car she's like
1:07
oh from the u.s and we always say oh we're really sorry she's
1:10
like oh no no we're
1:11
sorry for you guys oh we feel bad for you guys having to deal
1:14
with this guy i'm
1:15
SPEAKER_03: like
1:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know.
1:16
SPEAKER_03: And here they're a little more insulated, right?
1:18
SPEAKER_03: Because they're on the other side of the world and across a big ocean.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: But I tell you what,
1:23
SPEAKER_03: if they were,
1:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:24
SPEAKER_03: a thousand miles further to the east,
1:28
SPEAKER_01: they may be in a bit of trouble,
1:30
SPEAKER_01: right?
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
1:34
I think these smaller countries always are aware of the fact
1:38
that there can be
1:39
political catastrophe in the way that I think the United States
1:41
is just kind of
1:42
waking up to the fact that we can have a political catastrophe
1:46
and that there'd be
1:47
SPEAKER_03: very real consequences for lots of us.
1:49
Um,
1:49
probably anyway,
1:50
um,
1:51
that is,
1:52
well,
1:52
I,
1:52
I'm glad you're down there having a good time.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely frozen over in Chicago and we're,
1:57
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:58
we're going to just do some recording and we're going to do the
2:00
podcast and we're
2:01
SPEAKER_02: going to get through it.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Make sure your furnace is working.
2:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
2:05
Um,
2:06
all right,
2:06
everybody,
2:07
we have a,
2:07
um,
2:08
we have a big show for you today.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, uh, top of the show, we're going to cover, uh, the,
2:14
SPEAKER_03: Trump's great, quote, great health care plan.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of a plan, barely a plan.
2:19
And we're going to get into the what the details are lack
2:23
thereof of that.
2:24
We're going to we're going to spend some time talking about the
2:26
nexus of ice and
2:27
SPEAKER_03: health care and what a scary place that is to be.
2:30
Dr.
2:30
Oz's recent comments on OBGYNs in Alabama and then some RFK
2:34
quotes about Donald Trump.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: And then on the back half of the show, stick around.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: We have a we we have an incredible guest.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: And Dr.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: Erin Stevens,
2:43
who is based in Minneapolis and is going to give us an eyes on
2:49
the ground view as
2:52
she sees it on what's happening with ICE and the health care
2:54
system in the Twin
2:55
SPEAKER_03: Cities.
2:55
SPEAKER_03: So a great perspective to hear from.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: And so stick around for that.
3:01
SPEAKER_03: But we can jump right into the show now.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: So, Rob, I think we got to start with Donald Trump's big reveal.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: He's had a lot of big reveals lately.
3:12
But the president unveiled what he is referring to as the great
3:16
health care plan,
3:17
SPEAKER_03: another big braggadocious,
3:19
SPEAKER_03: almost Rococo name for his health care plan.
3:25
SPEAKER_03: So a couple of details to tee us up.
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Over a decade after Trump said he had a much better health care
3:32
plan than Obamacare
3:33
SPEAKER_03: and it would cover everybody and,
3:35
SPEAKER_03: quote,
3:35
SPEAKER_03: save so much money,
3:37
SPEAKER_03: he finally released his so-called great health care plan.
3:40
His plan has all the appearances of vaporware with a flashy
3:43
website and nearly no details.
3:46
SPEAKER_03: Under his plan,
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SPEAKER_03: he says the prices of many drugs will be slashed by 300,
3:50
SPEAKER_03: 400 and 500 percent,
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SPEAKER_03: a mathematical impossibility.
3:54
And he takes credit for lowering the cost of insulin,
3:56
something that has happened under Biden.
3:58
He says he will stop sending big insurance company billions in
4:01
extra taxpayer
4:02
funded subsidy payments and instead send that money directly to
4:05
eligible Americans.
4:06
To allow them,
4:07
you guessed it,
4:08
send it to insurance companies to buy health insurance.
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SPEAKER_03: We don't like how much money goes to the insurance companies.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: At Page of America, but I don't think he's going about it the right way.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: On the drug pricing,
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SPEAKER_03: NPR reported last week that Trump struck deals with 16 drug companies,
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SPEAKER_03: but they're still raising prices this year.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: So saying we're striking deals, prices are still going up.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: So those deals are somewhere in the future.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: We can't see.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Since September,
4:37
16 major drug companies have inked deals with the Trump
4:40
administration at lower
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SPEAKER_03: prices.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: But in January,
4:42
the time of year when pharmaceutical companies typically roll
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out price hikes,
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SPEAKER_03: all 16 companies release higher list prices for some of their drugs.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: Drunk companies,
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SPEAKER_03: including the 16 that made deals,
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SPEAKER_03: raised the prices of 872 brand name drugs in the first two weeks of 2026,
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SPEAKER_03: according to a new analysis by 46 Brooklyn,
5:00
SPEAKER_03: a drug price research firm.
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In truth,
5:03
most of it is a rehash of failed Republican ideas from the past
5:06
decade and a half.
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SPEAKER_03: Politico calls it a light on details proposal,
5:10
which is the understatement of the century that has almost no
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chance of getting
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SPEAKER_03: through Congress.
5:15
The Guardian quotes one expert who says the plan includes
5:17
absolutely no details.
5:20
Rob,
5:20
you have been looking over the paltry information about Donald
5:28
Trump's health care plan.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: What's your reaction?
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Well,
5:31
SPEAKER_03: earlier this week,
5:32
you charged me specifically with becoming an expert on the
5:35
great health care plan,
5:36
SPEAKER_03: right?
5:36
SPEAKER_03: I think it took me five minutes.
5:38
SPEAKER_03: Took me about five minutes.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: And then I did spend a lot more time on digging into some of the details.
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SPEAKER_03: Am I remembering this right?
5:45
SPEAKER_03: The interview that Trump walked out and Leslie Stahl,
5:48
SPEAKER_03: when she asked about the health care plan,
5:49
SPEAKER_03: he had a big binder,
5:50
SPEAKER_03: right?
5:50
Didn't he have this big binder that he handed to her and walked
5:53
off the set?
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: This is like a page.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: This is like the actual plan as released.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: That binder.
6:02
SPEAKER_03: Nothing was in it.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: That was a prop binder.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, we all agree drug crises are too high.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: We all agree there should be deals.
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SPEAKER_03: But I saw,
6:11
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: there's reporting Abby V,
6:13
SPEAKER_03: one pharmaceutical company,
6:15
SPEAKER_03: you know,
6:15
SPEAKER_03: that inked a deal.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: And it basically said,
6:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
6:18
SPEAKER_03: well,
6:18
SPEAKER_03: for Medicaid,
6:19
SPEAKER_03: you know,
6:19
SPEAKER_03: state Medicaid programs and some people who want to purchase their drugs,
6:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
6:24
SPEAKER_03: with cash.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: We're going to lower some prices.
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And then other details of the deal have not been released and
6:29
are still confidential.
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SPEAKER_03: Like, that to me is the big, the crux of it all.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: These other pieces of these deals that we have no idea, right?
6:37
SPEAKER_03: These are not companies that just exist for the benefit of society.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: They have shareholders, right?
6:43
SPEAKER_03: They have CEOs.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: They have stock buyback programs.
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SPEAKER_03: They make insane profits.
6:48
And as it looks right now,
6:51
right,
6:51
in the first few weeks of the new year...
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SPEAKER_03: even despite this plan being rolled out, they're raising prices, right?
6:58
SPEAKER_03: They're doing the same thing.
6:59
The price increases are in line with the price increases that
7:02
have been happening
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SPEAKER_03: the last three or four years in that same report from NPR.
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SPEAKER_03: So that piece seems like complete bullshit.
7:10
SPEAKER_03: Even though it's light on details,
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SPEAKER_03: whatever details there are don't seem to be actually helping people.
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And then we're back to this piece with health insurance and how
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do we help people
7:19
SPEAKER_03: afford health insurance in general?
7:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:22
We we do agree with with the idea that we have to we have to
7:26
keep the subsidies for
7:27
SPEAKER_03: ACA insurance going at least another year or so.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: Just to help people from falling off a cliff.
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SPEAKER_03: We have four million people estimated dropped insurance.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: Twenty some million had insurance rates go up.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: This is back to the idea of giving.
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And he even doesn't get into the details of what giving checks
7:44
to to to people looks like.
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SPEAKER_03: Is that.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Well.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: We don't know.
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SPEAKER_03: Can I just a thought on that is like.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: If you take...
7:54
SPEAKER_03: There's not enough detail,
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so we are definitionally speculating when we're talking about
8:00
how much money or
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SPEAKER_03: what percentages or anything.
8:03
So there's not an analysis to be done on what it would do to
8:06
the insurance market.
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SPEAKER_03: But if you take...
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SPEAKER_03: a bunch of people and take them out of Obamacare,
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SPEAKER_03: and then you just send them money,
8:17
and then you kind of hope or incentivize or even compel them to
8:20
put money back into
8:21
SPEAKER_03: the insurance market,
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SPEAKER_03: you could potentially destabilize the insurance market.
8:26
And you could cause problems for people who have employer-based
8:30
insurance,
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SPEAKER_03: presumably,
8:33
by screwing with the private market in such a sort of profound
8:38
and at-scale way.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's two ways you can release this money, right?
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SPEAKER_03: You can give it to people to buy insurance,
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which then why the hell are we making people go through the
8:47
step of getting a check
8:47
SPEAKER_03: and then buying insurance,
8:49
SPEAKER_03: right?
8:50
SPEAKER_03: And in that case,
8:51
SPEAKER_03: you're going to have probably healthier people kind of say,
8:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to go for something shittier.
8:56
SPEAKER_03: And then the people who are left,
8:58
SPEAKER_03: the people who require prescription drugs and medical treatment,
9:01
SPEAKER_03: people with cancer,
9:02
SPEAKER_03: people with chronic diseases,
9:03
SPEAKER_03: all of their prices are going to go up.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: All of them.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: That's just a nature of the beast.
9:08
or you're going to be giving people money into these health
9:10
savings accounts,
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SPEAKER_03: which,
9:11
SPEAKER_03: again,
9:11
SPEAKER_03: for people who make a lot of money,
9:13
people with very good incomes are a great way to hide money
9:16
from taxes and save it
9:17
SPEAKER_03: and use it to spend on health care.
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SPEAKER_03: You can't buy insurance with HSAs.
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I mean,
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this is part of what,
9:23
like,
9:23
Bill Cassidy,
9:23
Dr.
9:24
Senator Bill Cassidy in Louisiana did.
9:25
And now Trump,
9:26
I guess,
9:26
has endorsed Bill Cassidy's opponent in a primary.
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SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
9:29
Is he going for the Cassidy piece of the plan and then chucking
9:32
Cassidy to the side?
9:34
SPEAKER_03: That kind of tracks.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: That seems to make sense.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: So so the lack of details about this,
9:40
SPEAKER_03: but even if you kind of game out any scenario under this,
9:44
SPEAKER_03: quote,
9:45
SPEAKER_03: plan to lower health insurance prices,
9:48
SPEAKER_03: none of them actually do it.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: So, again, I think intentionally they're light on detail.
9:53
SPEAKER_03: The website looks great.
9:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: The website is very glossy, very pretty.
9:58
The website for Trump Rx where they're supposedly bringing down
10:00
drug prices.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's that's great.
10:02
SPEAKER_03: There's just nothing there that there isn't there.
10:05
SPEAKER_03: And you're right, the math doesn't work.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: 300%, 400%, 500% decreases on drug prices.
10:10
I don't think you're going to have Pfizer paying people to take
10:14
cholesterol meds.
10:15
SPEAKER_03: That doesn't seem to make sense, but that's how the math works.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Can we linger on this Bill Cassidy?
10:24
SPEAKER_03: So the New York Times is reporting,
10:27
SPEAKER_03: and we saw all over,
10:28
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
10:28
SPEAKER_03: anyone who's watching the news saw it,
10:29
SPEAKER_03: that Donald Trump basically...
10:34
through an endorsement with some potential reporting that maybe
10:38
she didn't know it
10:39
was coming or only knew it was coming for a really brief period
10:43
of time because the
10:44
SPEAKER_03: campaign's not totally set up.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: And it might have just been kind of an on-the-fly decision.
10:51
SPEAKER_03: We weren't in the room, but it seems like maybe from Trump.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: It seems like it maybe happened kind of in real time.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he's just feeling himself.
10:59
SPEAKER_03: And so he comes out and he endorses Congresswoman Julia Letlow
11:04
SPEAKER_03: To primary Bill Cassidy,
11:07
who has thrown himself prostrate in front of Donald Trump over
11:14
and over again,
11:16
and more or less sold his doctor soul to MAGA and Trump to give
11:22
the stamp of
11:23
SPEAKER_03: approval for RFK,
11:24
SPEAKER_03: who is now destroying American health care.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: And what does he get for all of his troubles?
11:29
SPEAKER_03: What does he get for throwing away his professional reputation,
11:34
SPEAKER_03: for shaming his grandchildren,
11:37
for basically being like a healthcare Judas as his main
11:43
contribution in this life
11:45
SPEAKER_03: to the world?
11:46
SPEAKER_03: What does he get?
11:47
SPEAKER_03: He gets a primary challenge endorsed by Donald Trump.
11:51
SPEAKER_03: Couldn't happen to a better guy.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:53
As much as I think you're describing the weave,
11:55
that real-time decision,
11:57
feeling it out.
11:59
But as much as I think we have real concern about Trump's
12:03
health and stability and
12:04
SPEAKER_03: mental acuity,
12:06
SPEAKER_03: he has an insane memory for retribution,
12:10
SPEAKER_03: right?
12:10
SPEAKER_03: And what did Senator Dr. Bill Cassidy do?
12:13
SPEAKER_03: He voted to convict in the impeachment, right?
12:16
SPEAKER_03: He was one of the 10 Republicans.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: Or one of the handful.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: I forget the number.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: Don't quote me.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: But he did do that.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: Right.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: So he thought it seems.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: And Trump never forgot.
12:27
SPEAKER_03: No, never, never, never, never, never.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: So he gave a stamp of approval to Bobby Kennedy.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: He's been out there.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't go on his X account much,
12:36
SPEAKER_03: but Senator Dr.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: Cassidy's X account previously,
12:38
SPEAKER_03: at least last week,
12:39
the pinned tweet was a smiling picture of him in the Oval
12:42
Office with President
12:43
SPEAKER_03: Trump,
12:43
SPEAKER_03: you know,
12:44
SPEAKER_03: touting some something.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Bullshit.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:47
And like like the most predictable thing is that he would like
12:50
completely stab him in the back.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: And at least it seems like maybe that happened.
12:54
SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
12:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if this person is this person not even running.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: Is that what you're telling me?
12:58
SPEAKER_03: The person he endorsed?
12:59
SPEAKER_03: She she she wasn't running and didn't really have a viable path.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: I can say this for sure.
13:05
Like,
13:06
I don't know what the nature of the behind the scenes
13:08
conversations were.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: Maybe this has been in the works for weeks.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: We don't know.
13:11
But it wasn't it wasn't particularly public that she was like
13:14
having like a big effort.
13:17
And she certainly wasn't viable for knocking off Kennedy until
13:21
until this happened.
13:22
SPEAKER_03: And now I'm sorry.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Kennedy on your brain.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Kennedy on my brain.
13:29
SPEAKER_03: Think about the guy way too much.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: Takes up way too much space.
13:31
SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: So the.
13:37
SPEAKER_03: The big thing for me on this is like,
13:41
SPEAKER_03: one,
13:41
SPEAKER_03: you will...
13:46
SPEAKER_03: The Republicans should learn the lesson that they are never going to get.
13:49
SPEAKER_03: He will knife you.
13:51
He will put a shank in your back the minute it either helps him
13:58
or if he just feels like it.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: And he'll literally do it to anybody, no matter how much.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: You sell your soul to stay in his good graces.
14:09
SPEAKER_03: And it should be like a lesson.
14:10
SPEAKER_03: And I have no idea.
14:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know how many examples.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: I think we have 1,000 examples, high-profile examples now.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: How many more do you need to,
14:18
SPEAKER_03: like,
14:18
not spend the short amount of time you have in this life
14:22
sucking up to this guy?
14:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
14:25
SPEAKER_03: Marjorie Taylor Brown, right?
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Or whatever the name was for her.
14:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, just like they're everywhere.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: They're everywhere.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: Well, so I guess stay tuned.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: The great health care plan doesn't look so great.
14:37
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't look like a plan, really.
14:39
And so I guess we'll see if we get another page added to the
14:41
website at some point
14:42
SPEAKER_03: with any level of detail.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: But we'll be on it.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: We'll be on it.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: I'm an expert, Miles.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to maintain that status as an expert every waking hour.
14:51
And we will also stay up to date on Donald Trump's gambit to
14:58
take a 99 percent compliant U.S.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: senator and exchange him for a 100 percent compliant U.S.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: senator from Louisiana.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Art of the deal, baby.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Art of the deal.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: All right.
15:12
SPEAKER_03: Next up, we're going to talk about the nexus of ice and health care.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: It's starting to be a scary place in Minneapolis.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: And so a lot of people are covering Minneapolis.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of different ways to look at Minneapolis.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Here on this show,
15:24
we're going to focus on interactions with medical providers and
15:29
the health care
15:30
SPEAKER_03: system at large.
15:31
So with 3,000 federal troops in Minnesota at this point for an
15:33
immigration
15:34
SPEAKER_03: crackdown and another 1,500 on standby,
15:37
SPEAKER_03: I believe the 1,500 is potentially the Alaska Reserve,
15:41
SPEAKER_03: but we'll double-check that,
15:43
SPEAKER_03: and possible deployment from Alaska.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: Hospitals are reporting that ICE agents...
15:48
are menacing hospitals and showing up in hospitals and doing
15:52
weird things in hospital systems.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: So health care workers in the Twin Cities report that U.S.
15:56
Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are entering
15:58
hospitals with detained
15:59
SPEAKER_03: individuals,
16:01
SPEAKER_03: sometimes with warrants,
16:02
SPEAKER_03: but often without.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: And they're frequently present during patient care.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: So they're sitting like sitting there.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: And remember,
16:09
SPEAKER_03: these guys are,
16:09
SPEAKER_03: like,
16:09
SPEAKER_03: just if you haven't seen the videos,
16:11
SPEAKER_03: like,
16:12
SPEAKER_03: of when they're in the medical setting,
16:14
SPEAKER_03: it's not like they're switching it up.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: They're camoed out.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: They have their fatigues on in some cases.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: In some cases, they have weapons.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: I haven't seen anyone with weapons out.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: I've seen weapons holstered.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: But in the hospital setting, weapons holstered.
16:27
And their presence is terrifying medical staff and raising
16:29
concerns about patient
16:30
SPEAKER_03: safety,
16:31
according to five nurses at Hennepin County Medical Center in
16:33
Minneapolis,
16:34
SPEAKER_03: who asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing their jobs.
16:39
A part of me wants to go on the news with my face and scream at
16:42
the top of my
16:43
SPEAKER_03: lungs,
16:43
SPEAKER_03: an HCMC nurse said.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: But I'm very much right in the middle of this.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: It's gotten so bad.
16:48
CIDRAP reports that Minnesota residents are delaying medical
16:51
care for encountering ice.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: And of course that's true.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: And that's to say, I think that that...
16:57
That's being like citizens are—we know citizens are not
16:59
even—some people are not
17:00
SPEAKER_03: even going to school right now,
17:01
SPEAKER_03: like the schools.
17:03
SPEAKER_03: So people are delaying care.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: And then you couldn't even imagine in the immigrant community how—
17:09
I got to imagine there's just sort of like wide-reaching
17:12
ramifications for access
17:13
SPEAKER_03: to care or sort of like that could be as,
17:17
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:17
SPEAKER_03: severe as missing going to the ER.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: But even just like my little stuff,
17:21
SPEAKER_03: like maybe I'm not going to go get my,
17:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:23
my blood pressure medication script refilled because I'm not
17:26
interested in getting
17:26
SPEAKER_03: out of the house or going out and about.
17:28
SPEAKER_03: Anyway,
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Rob,
17:30
what's on your mind as we see ICE sort of start to impede the
17:35
delivery of care in
17:37
SPEAKER_03: between cities?
17:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
17:39
SPEAKER_03: every ER doc and ER nurse and staff will tell you,
17:43
SPEAKER_03: and this has been true my entire career,
17:45
SPEAKER_03: there is a bit of a natural friction between actual law enforcement,
17:49
SPEAKER_03: not ICE,
17:49
SPEAKER_03: but actual law enforcement and patient care.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: That just happens.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: It's part of the deal.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: People are brought in.
17:54
in handcuffs,
17:55
but requiring you to do something to potentially save their
18:00
lives.
18:00
And the job of that officer is to keep the peace and to
18:04
potentially bring that person in.
18:06
SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
18:07
SPEAKER_03: Our job is to take care of those people.
18:09
You have this entity of ICE that has shown themselves to be
18:15
just lawless and
18:17
SPEAKER_03: nabbing people without regard for status,
18:20
SPEAKER_03: citizenship,
18:21
SPEAKER_03: where they were born.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: Even like nationality,
18:24
SPEAKER_03: I saw a video of a Native American woman like being dragged away saying,
18:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm a Native American.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Like her people were here before these Ice Age people were here.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: Like, come on.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: And so when that natural friction that exists,
18:36
SPEAKER_03: that we always just kind of have a balance and we work together with law
18:40
SPEAKER_03: enforcement because they're also there to sometimes protect us,
18:42
SPEAKER_03: right?
18:43
SPEAKER_03: Violence against healthcare workers is real.
18:45
And people listening to this who are healthcare workers know
18:47
that,
18:47
particularly in the ER.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:48
SPEAKER_03: But they have this lawless entity like ICE out there with their guns,
18:52
SPEAKER_03: even if they're in their holsters,
18:53
SPEAKER_03: in their camo,
18:54
SPEAKER_03: with their masks on,
18:56
SPEAKER_03: just intimidating,
18:58
SPEAKER_03: naturally intimidating,
18:59
SPEAKER_03: making staff nervous to be there taking care of people.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: I think it's antithetical to how we approach taking care of patients.
19:10
And so as it puts up a barrier for that,
19:12
I think this is something that...
19:16
SPEAKER_03: We need to stay on.
19:17
And I know you're interviewing the doctor from Minneapolis to
19:20
kind of to talk about
19:21
SPEAKER_03: this,
19:22
SPEAKER_03: like from on the ground.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Like what are people actually feeling and seeing and scary stuff?
19:27
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
19:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is reporting from The New York Times.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: So
19:33
SPEAKER_03: Over his 20 years as an emergency medicine physician,
19:35
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
19:36
Robert Lefevre said he had encountered law enforcement officers
19:40
coming in with
19:41
SPEAKER_03: shooting victims and other patients.
19:42
SPEAKER_03: But his quote is,
19:43
but federal agents barging into patient care areas trying to
19:46
question or detain
19:47
SPEAKER_03: patients.
19:48
SPEAKER_03: I've never seen anything like that, the doctor said.
19:51
He works for the Regions Hospital a few blocks from the state
19:53
capitol at St.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: Paul.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever been to Minneapolis-St.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: Paul like,
19:58
SPEAKER_03: the main areas of the Twin Cities are, like, bucolic.
20:02
SPEAKER_03: And, like, it's really hard.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: I haven't been there since this all started,
20:05
SPEAKER_03: but it's really hard to kind of imagine the capital area in St.
20:09
Paul falling into,
20:12
you know,
20:12
having soldiers,
20:13
essentially,
20:13
like,
20:14
you know,
20:14
kind of...
20:15
misdressed soldiers they're like jungle fatigues for like an
20:20
arctic environment in
20:21
the same urban environment and i'm wearing my camo it's just
20:24
like it's just they
20:26
look like they're just like weird thumbs sticking out um and i
20:29
can't i it's it's
20:31
hard to like envision uh how that how mad that must seem just
20:35
like absolute madness
20:38
SPEAKER_03: um especially especially in a hospital setting yeah
20:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, that's true.
20:42
SPEAKER_03: And I appreciate that quote,
20:43
SPEAKER_03: because bar none,
20:46
SPEAKER_03: I've never had law enforcement like come into rooms.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
20:49
SPEAKER_03: they always had a deference for I mean,
20:51
they would be in there if someone's like coming from the jail
20:53
and they're in the
20:53
SPEAKER_03: room.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: And if there's something sensitive, they'll leave.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: But they always deferred to us, you know, OK, doc, what do you need?
20:59
SPEAKER_03: What can I do to help you out?
21:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, never, never, never like the attempts to apprehend people.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: And again,
21:06
SPEAKER_03: the,
21:06
SPEAKER_03: this,
21:06
SPEAKER_03: the,
21:07
SPEAKER_03: the way these guys have done it just on the streets or door to door,
21:10
SPEAKER_03: um,
21:11
SPEAKER_03: it's indiscriminate at best.
21:13
SPEAKER_03: Right.
21:14
And so if they're barging into rooms and who,
21:17
who the hell are they grabbing?
21:18
SPEAKER_03: Whether, you know,
21:18
Yeah,
21:19
I think it's a predictable outcome of what they've been doing
21:23
up there all along.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:25
There's two more topics on the way that sort of ICE in the Twin
21:28
Cities interacts
21:29
SPEAKER_03: with the health system.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: So first,
21:31
SPEAKER_03: there are increasingly reports,
21:32
SPEAKER_03: and when this was happening in Chicago,
21:34
SPEAKER_03: there were reports in Chicago as well,
21:35
SPEAKER_03: but there's increasing reports that in the Twin Cities,
21:37
SPEAKER_03: and I've even heard in Michigan and some other places,
21:40
SPEAKER_03: ICE detainees are not receiving proper medical care.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: We also got reports out of Louisiana about that too.
21:45
So concerns are being raised that medical care for ICE
21:46
detainees housed inside an
21:48
SPEAKER_03: Ohio jail aren't receiving medical care.
21:51
Advocates say immigrants held at the Butler County Jail are
21:53
being denied critical medications.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: Every week,
21:56
Hillary Davis has been making a two-hour drive to the Butler
21:58
County Jail with
21:59
SPEAKER_03: medicine in her hand.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: She's bringing it to a family friend after he was picked up by ICE.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: Quote,
22:08
SPEAKER_03: in and just took them, said Davis.
22:09
SPEAKER_03: And they're using drones to, like, find folks, too.
22:11
SPEAKER_03: I haven't seen a video of that, but I've seen it reported now.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: He's diabetic,
22:17
SPEAKER_03: and he wanted his medications,
22:18
SPEAKER_03: and he still has not received those medications,
22:20
SPEAKER_03: said Davis.
22:21
We got his A1C down from high level to very low level,
22:23
and now it's in jeopardy.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Advocates say he's not alone.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: This is not the only reporting of this.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: It's just some of the most recent.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: And so...
22:33
It strikes me that obviously the United States has not long had
22:40
sympathy for the
22:42
SPEAKER_03: health and well-being of its incarcerated population.
22:47
That is not a thing that the United States cares about,
22:50
or at least as other countries.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: But what we know is that a bunch of these people are not...
23:02
SPEAKER_03: have not committed any crimes aside from immigration status,
23:08
SPEAKER_03: which is an administrative crime,
23:11
SPEAKER_03: not like a violent crime.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: And in some cases,
23:14
we know that people are getting detained for extended periods
23:17
of time who are
23:18
SPEAKER_03: citizens.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: including people where they knock on their door,
23:22
SPEAKER_03: drag them out of their house and then detain them for many,
23:24
SPEAKER_03: many,
23:24
SPEAKER_03: many hours.
23:26
SPEAKER_03: So it's not like they were impeding an investigation.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: It's just untrained ICE officers making mistakes.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: And these folks are now we're getting reports out of these facilities.
23:33
They're not they're not letting people get the health treatment
23:37
that they need,
23:39
SPEAKER_03: be they citizens,
23:40
SPEAKER_03: be they not citizens,
23:41
SPEAKER_03: whoever they happen to be.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, Kavanaugh told them they could profile people, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Right, the Kavanaugh stop.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: There was no standard.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: Kavanaugh just said at SCOTUS,
23:48
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
23:48
SPEAKER_03: you can just pick them up,
23:49
SPEAKER_03: take them in if they look like someone who might be here illegally.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's always been a challenge.
23:56
I will tell you,
23:56
like— Just the Kavanaugh stop lets them stop anyone for,
24:03
like,
24:03
accents.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: They claim—it is not clear that that ruling says that, right?
24:10
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:11
But the Kavanaugh stop has been interpreted interpreted by ICE
24:14
and DHS that they
24:16
SPEAKER_03: can use accents,
24:17
SPEAKER_03: skin color,
24:18
SPEAKER_03: all these like racial profiling that they can do this to detain people.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: Then they have to have some reason to bring them in.
24:24
And it seems like so I would say that the bringing the bringing
24:28
of people in who are citizens.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: The hassling of that older Asian man,
24:34
that older Hmong man in Minneapolis where they dragged him out
24:36
in his underwear and
24:37
SPEAKER_03: then they brought him to detention for hours on end,
24:42
SPEAKER_03: even though he was clearly a citizen.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: They proved it in real time.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: That is not necessarily like an affectation.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: That's not like an outcome of the Kavanaugh stops.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: The Kavanaugh stops are terrible.
24:53
And then they're doing this additional thing where they're
24:54
detaining people where
24:55
SPEAKER_03: it seems like there is no legal nothing that they're basing that on.
24:59
SPEAKER_03: It's just untrained guys hassling and detaining the corpus of citizens.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, back to you.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:07
I could just say like our local jail where I've worked for 20
25:10
some odd years,
25:11
SPEAKER_03: like the medical staff there are really good people.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Like people that used to work in the ER were techs and nurses in the ER.
25:17
SPEAKER_03: Now we run the nursing program there.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: And there are certain things they can and can't do,
25:21
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:21
SPEAKER_03: give meds twice a day and not three or four times a day.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: So you have to alter all that.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: But they're genuinely looking out for people in in some way.
25:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
25:29
SPEAKER_03: The system itself may not be that concerned,
25:32
but they do have like actual health care staff assigned there
25:35
who kind of come to
25:36
SPEAKER_03: work every day wanting to actually like do good and take care of folks.
25:40
SPEAKER_03: This just sounds like they're just like, ah, fuck it.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, who cares, right?
25:43
SPEAKER_03: And someone, you know, they talked about the A1C in a diabetic.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: That's just their chronic blood sugar levels.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: And if they're there for a very long time,
25:49
SPEAKER_03: right,
25:49
SPEAKER_03: that has real consequences for those folks in real time,
25:52
SPEAKER_03: but also kind of down the line.
25:54
SPEAKER_03: Down the line, yeah.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: So,
25:56
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
25:56
SPEAKER_03: I think it's something that isn't talked about enough,
25:58
SPEAKER_03: but it's obviously affecting folks.
26:01
This one I'm going to highlight for anyone who works in a
26:03
health system or a health contractor.
26:07
SPEAKER_03: So ICE has reportedly stopped paying health care providers.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: This is via Jed Legum at Popular Information.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: Under the law,
26:15
SPEAKER_03: ICE is required to provide necessary medical care for its population,
26:18
SPEAKER_03: which we know it is in some instances not doing or not doing adequately.
26:23
But while ICE employs some of its own medical staff,
26:25
it often uses third party providers.
26:27
SPEAKER_03: ICE's Buffalo Federal Detention Facility,
26:30
SPEAKER_03: for example,
26:30
SPEAKER_03: houses over 500 detainees and has no doctor,
26:33
SPEAKER_03: dentist,
26:34
SPEAKER_03: or health staff.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: ICE,
26:35
SPEAKER_03: however,
26:35
has not paid any third-party providers for medical care for
26:38
detainees since October
26:39
SPEAKER_03: 3,
26:40
SPEAKER_03: 2025.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: Last week,
26:42
ICE posted a notice on an obscure government website announcing
26:45
that it will not
26:46
SPEAKER_03: begin processing such claims until at least April 30,
26:48
SPEAKER_03: 2026.
26:50
Until then,
26:51
medical providers are instructed to hold all claims
26:54
submissions.
26:55
ICE's failure to pay its bills for months has caused some
26:58
medical providers to deny
26:59
SPEAKER_03: services to ICE detainees.
27:01
In other cases,
27:02
detainees have allegedly been denied essential medical care by
27:05
ICE.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: So in places where they're not staffed, they're using contractors.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: And this is just... This is a...
27:12
SPEAKER_03: This is a good heads up for contractors.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: Not the medical contractors.
27:16
SPEAKER_03: Medical contractors, you should help those folks.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: But any other contractors, ICE is going to stiff you.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: ICE is going to stiff you like Donald Trump stiffs a contractor.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: It's in the DNA of the government at this point.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure, sure.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, they have $50,000 sign-up bonuses for these goons, right?
27:33
SPEAKER_03: But they can't pay their bills.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: You know where their priorities are, right?
27:37
SPEAKER_03: You know where their priorities are, for sure.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: Yep, that's right.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: All right.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: More in the back half of the show on Minneapolis.
27:46
So next up,
27:47
Dr.
27:47
Oz gave a wild,
27:50
wild interview or quote around health services in Alabama.
27:57
He thought that no OBGYNs in many of the rural counties in
28:00
Alabama was,
28:01
quote,
28:02
pretty cool.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Can we throw to that clip?
28:05
SPEAKER_02: Alabama.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: has no OBGYNs in many of their counties.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: So they're doing something pretty cool.
28:12
They're actually having robots do ultrasounds on these pregnant
28:15
moms so we can
28:17
actually get those images back to the big center so we know if
28:20
the child has a
28:20
SPEAKER_02: problem and we know if that mother's at risk.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: We have one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world,
28:27
SPEAKER_02: in the country with the best medicine in the world.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Dr. Crudite.
28:35
SPEAKER_03: Dr. Crudite.
28:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_03: And the out of touch, the out of touch oozes out of him.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:39
Like he was like,
28:40
I know the Crudite was just a funny thing,
28:43
but it is the guy.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: It's him.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: It's it's him.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:47
SPEAKER_03: It's just who he is.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: All of them.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: No concept of people not having health care and these deserts.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: And Rob, why?
28:56
SPEAKER_03: Why does Alabama have maternity deserts?
28:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
28:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
29:00
SPEAKER_03: there's reporting,
29:01
SPEAKER_03: right,
29:01
SPEAKER_03: that since the abortion bans,
29:04
SPEAKER_03: or since Dobbs,
29:05
SPEAKER_03: right,
29:05
SPEAKER_03: and the near total abortion ban in Alabama,
29:07
SPEAKER_03: but in states with abortion bans,
29:09
SPEAKER_03: right,
29:10
SPEAKER_03: I think OBGYN's number down 4%,
29:13
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:14
SPEAKER_03: versus being slightly up in other states.
29:16
If you look at applications to medical schools and residencies
29:19
in states with
29:21
SPEAKER_03: abortion bans or near total abortion bans,
29:23
SPEAKER_03: we see a decrease.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: I think reporting showed about a 6% decrease in those places.
29:27
so and then alabama is one of is it 10 states now that hasn't
29:31
expanded medicaid
29:32
right and having less medicaid i think if you look at like
29:35
solutions to the to the
29:37
ob-gyn deserts you know one of them is expanding medicaid well
29:40
no shit right this
29:41
these are places where a lot of people would qualify for
29:44
medicaid a lot of
29:44
facilities would benefit these are places that are going to get
29:47
completely screwed
29:49
by the uh by the big beautiful bill trillion dollar medicaid
29:53
cuts to pay for tax
29:54
SPEAKER_03: cuts for billionaires
29:55
SPEAKER_03: And Dr. fucking Crudite thinks pretty cool.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty cool because it's a robot.
30:00
Like you can see Trump is just sitting there going – Trump's
30:02
probably nodding off
30:03
SPEAKER_03: and they say,
30:04
SPEAKER_03: ooh,
30:04
SPEAKER_03: robots.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: What about this about robots?
30:06
SPEAKER_00: You know?
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Jesus.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:09
A bunch of guys sitting up at a podium getting all geeked about
30:13
how robots are
30:15
SPEAKER_03: doing ultrasounds in rural Alabama.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: I'd like to –
30:20
I'd like to talk to someone who wanted a real OBGYN and got a
30:25
robot instead and see
30:26
SPEAKER_03: what they think.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you just went through all this, right?
30:30
SPEAKER_03: You got a new little one at home.
30:30
SPEAKER_03: You guys went through all this for nine months.
30:32
Can you imagine if your interaction was,
30:35
hey,
30:35
here's your robot and we'll see you next month.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: It was nice to ask a kind, smart human questions.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: That they could answer.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: That was like a nice feature of the process of going through,
30:49
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:52
accompanying my partner through the process of being pregnant
30:55
in a place that had
30:56
SPEAKER_03: real medical care.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's too bad.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: I feel for the folks in Alabama.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: And Dr. Crudite is, it's not cool.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: It's not cool.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: It's not cool.
31:09
And I just want to just say this as a person who overwhelmingly
31:14
thinks robots are cool.
31:16
SPEAKER_03: We're pro-robot, for sure.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm pro-robot.
31:19
This instance of robot,
31:23
we could use a real OBGYN in Alabama as opposed to the robots.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: OK.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: In other wild quotes coming out of the administration,
31:35
SPEAKER_03: we got we got a real doozy from Robert Kennedy,
31:38
SPEAKER_03: if we can throw to that.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: You know,
31:39
the interesting thing about the president is that he eats
31:44
really bad food,
31:45
SPEAKER_01: which is McDonald's and then,
31:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:48
SPEAKER_01: candy and Diet Coke.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: But he eats and drinks the Diet Coke all times.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: He has a constitution of a deity.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I cut off there, but he has the constitution of a deity.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: What?
32:05
SPEAKER_03: Which deity?
32:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: This made me really think, right?
32:09
SPEAKER_03: Are they talking big G God?
32:11
SPEAKER_03: Are we talking like Diasenes?
32:15
SPEAKER_03: Is that the Greek God of drinking wine?
32:17
SPEAKER_03: No, Trump doesn't drink wine, but he was kind of sort of an excess.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Is it the God of war?
32:23
Well,
32:23
he said he's not so into peace anymore because they didn't give
32:26
him the peace prize.
32:27
SPEAKER_03: FIFA gave him the peace prize.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking...
32:29
I wanted to see if there was a Catholic saint that was like the
32:32
patron saint of
32:32
SPEAKER_03: cheating at golf.
32:34
SPEAKER_03: The patron saint of cheating at golf.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh, God.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:37
SPEAKER_03: Or if there was like a Hindu deity that was really into like...
32:42
gauche gold decorations i didn't find any but i you know i
32:46
think it's unclear what
32:48
deity is but um bobby's bobby's point is i think another great
32:53
example of like how
32:55
much ongoing sucking up the the heads of these departments have
33:01
to do in order to
33:03
get away with their insane pet projects bobby's being vaccines
33:07
destroying nih and
33:08
SPEAKER_03: the cdc you know
33:10
probably the most destructive stuff that's happened so far out
33:12
of the Trump administration.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: And the payment for that is to go on these organs of the Maha movement,
33:21
SPEAKER_03: in this case,
33:21
SPEAKER_03: Katie Miller's show,
33:23
SPEAKER_03: and suck up to the head guy,
33:27
SPEAKER_03: the chief.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: And so he could sort of justify his movement.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: He could justify the incongruence between
33:37
SPEAKER_03: the Maha movement's interest in,
33:39
SPEAKER_03: like,
33:40
whole foods and clean eating and the president's absolutely
33:45
disgusting personal
33:47
SPEAKER_03: behavior and habits.
33:50
And he can kind of marry—he can justify those by making this
33:55
extraordinary claim
33:57
SPEAKER_03: that he has the constitution of a deity.
33:59
See,
34:00
it's—I guess he was in a little bit of a trick box if he wanted
34:03
to stay consistent.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: He's got to get there somehow.
34:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
34:06
SPEAKER_03: you're out there promoting healthy foods and saying,
34:08
SPEAKER_03: well,
34:08
SPEAKER_03: this isn't for all of you because this guy's a god.
34:11
SPEAKER_03: You're not.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: He's special.
34:13
What I wouldn't give to see the signal chat between folks and
34:17
this little crowd.
34:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, take a look at that Katie Miller show.
34:20
SPEAKER_03: He called you a god.
34:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's crazy.
34:23
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: Get someone to give it to him.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: And I wonder if there's strategy.
34:28
SPEAKER_03: There's got to be somewhere.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: hopefully some documents come out or something.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: But there's got to be strategizing on how to suck up to him.
34:39
Because it's so consistently pathetic over such a long period
34:42
of time that you're
34:44
SPEAKER_03: not just doing it by yourself.
34:46
You're like working as a team to suck up to a guy who is
34:50
increasingly volatile,
34:51
SPEAKER_03: whose brain is like breaking in front of us on a national stage.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: He's like getting older and melting down.
34:58
SPEAKER_03: But you're
34:59
SPEAKER_03: you don't always have access to him.
35:00
SPEAKER_03: So they're,
35:01
they're probably like coordinating how to get their flattery to
35:06
him in order to
35:08
SPEAKER_03: retain their positions of power and probably time that flattery with the
35:14
SPEAKER_03: announcements of weird things like changing the vaccine schedule,
35:19
SPEAKER_03: for example.
35:20
I mean,
35:21
the,
35:21
the,
35:21
the,
35:22
the,
35:23
the dance that's happening inside that inner circle is so
35:27
yucky.
35:27
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it would be sad if it wasn't so disgusting, right?
35:32
SPEAKER_03: To see someone who previously,
35:34
SPEAKER_03: again,
35:36
a respected environmental lawyer that like was actually out
35:40
there trying to protect
35:41
SPEAKER_03: the planet,
35:41
SPEAKER_03: right?
35:42
SPEAKER_03: Like Bobby Kennedy, bend over backwards for this guy.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: And like we said earlier,
35:49
SPEAKER_03: Senator Dr.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: Bill Cassidy,
35:50
who at one point presumably was a physician who actually like
35:53
cared about humans
35:55
SPEAKER_03: under his care.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:56
And now has twisted himself in a pretzel to kind of appease
35:59
this guy and finding out again.
36:00
SPEAKER_03: So I think Bobby probably sees that.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: They all see it, right?
36:04
SPEAKER_03: If you step out of line just a little bit, right?
36:06
SPEAKER_03: If you don't suck up enough, he's going to stab you in the back.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: And so they have to keep the fluffing going.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: On a serious note,
36:19
Bobby's obviously like almost everything Bobby does shouldn't
36:22
be taken at face
36:22
SPEAKER_03: value for what he's saying.
36:25
I think maybe somewhere he convinces himself of some of these
36:29
strange things and he
36:30
SPEAKER_03: believes strange things.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: But as a practical matter,
36:33
SPEAKER_03: he's almost always doing either principal management,
36:35
SPEAKER_03: managing up to Trump.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: Or he's he's doing coalition management,
36:39
managing down to Maha and the other interests and the corporate
36:42
interests that he's
36:43
SPEAKER_03: interested in.
36:44
And there was some great reporting by Politico this week on how
36:49
Bobby Kennedy is
36:50
SPEAKER_03: trying to take some of the more unsavory elements of the trial attorneys.
36:55
I find the trial attorneys is probably where I have a
36:57
disagreement with doctors.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: I think some trial attorneys are pretty good.
37:00
SPEAKER_03: Pretty good, pretty good actors out there.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: But there's certainly unsavory elements inside the trial attorneys.
37:06
And he's taking some of the trial attorneys and he's trying to
37:09
marry them as a political force.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: And basically,
37:11
like some some larger law firms who are suing Pharma are
37:21
basically saying that he
37:22
SPEAKER_03: is taking.
37:24
government in a more pro-plaintiff direction and that there are
37:28
some folks who are
37:29
interested in sort of either class actions on some of these
37:33
fringy ideas around
37:34
SPEAKER_03: vaccines or other ways that Bobby would sort of
37:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if he's drawing from his time as an environmental lawyer,
37:45
but kind of opening up the gates for less scrupulous trial
37:51
attorneys to go after
37:52
SPEAKER_03: some of the pharmaceutical companies and others.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: Not on the things that they should go after him on,
37:58
SPEAKER_03: like not on ghoulish profiteering,
38:01
SPEAKER_03: but on like fringy medicine items.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he profited, right?
38:06
SPEAKER_03: He profited hugely off of, I think, lawsuits about Gardasil, right?
38:10
SPEAKER_03: That HPV vaccine that prevents cancer.
38:14
You know,
38:14
and so he is certainly in line with the unscrupulous parts of
38:21
that crowd.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: And yeah,
38:23
no doubt as part of coalition management would welcome some of
38:27
those folks into the
38:28
SPEAKER_03: Maha movement,
38:30
SPEAKER_03: as it were.
38:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:31
SPEAKER_03: Kennedy, actually, I was just checking this out.
38:34
Kennedy won cases against Monsanto in 2018 for the health harms
38:39
allegedly caused by
38:40
SPEAKER_03: herbicide Roundup.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: And he won against DuPont for contamination in 2007.
38:46
Right,
38:48
but now they're promoting big agro beef as the top of the food
38:51
pyramid,
38:51
right?
38:51
SPEAKER_03: Totally, right.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: Like, Jesus Christ, talk about 180 degrees.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
38:56
SPEAKER_03: that's that's example number one,
38:57
that the most things that Kennedy's up to is coalition
39:00
management that we're
39:01
putting we're putting beef and saturated fats at the top of the
39:04
food pyramid.
39:05
And we're shaping the way the federal government disperses
39:09
funds to agribusiness in
39:11
SPEAKER_03: a way that,
39:12
SPEAKER_03: you know,
39:12
SPEAKER_03: that those business interests are very much a big part of the public
39:18
SPEAKER_03: communications.
39:19
And that and that managing that coalition is like actually what
39:22
they're up to,
39:23
SPEAKER_03: not the health and well-being of your children.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: For sure.
39:26
SPEAKER_03: For sure.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: All right, Rob, is it time to talk to Dr. Aaron Stevens?
39:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:33
SPEAKER_03: Looking forward to this.
39:34
SPEAKER_03: OK, great.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Well, let's let's throw to that now.
39:37
Coming up next,
39:39
our interview with Dr.
39:40
Aaron Stevens from the Twin Cities.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: All right, everyone, we're back.
39:46
SPEAKER_03: Today, we are joined by Dr. Erin Stevens.
39:51
Dr.
39:51
Erin Stevens is an OBGYN physician in the Twin Cities metro of
39:54
Minnesota.
39:55
She is highly involved in legislative advocacy and patient
39:58
education through
39:59
SPEAKER_03: writing,
39:59
SPEAKER_03: speaking,
40:00
SPEAKER_03: and action.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: She has published a book titled Unexpected,
40:03
SPEAKER_03: A Postpartum Survival Guide,
40:05
SPEAKER_03: An Honest,
40:05
SPEAKER_03: Humorous,
40:05
Helpful Preparation Manual for New Parents Approaching the Time
40:09
After Pregnancy.
40:10
Dr.
40:10
Erin Stevens,
40:11
thank you so much for joining us today on Paging America.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
40:15
I'm happy to be involved in conversations and letting people
40:18
know what's happening
40:19
SPEAKER_00: here and how to help.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
40:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
40:21
I think the thirst for a better understanding and clarity and
40:26
understanding of
40:27
SPEAKER_03: what's happening in the Twin Cities,
40:30
SPEAKER_03: in Minneapolis,
40:30
SPEAKER_03: and in St.
40:31
Paul,
40:32
I think people can't get enough of it because it seems so hard
40:35
to believe that
40:37
SPEAKER_03: Um,
40:37
SPEAKER_03: and that,
40:38
SPEAKER_03: that we're almost,
40:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if we're almost searching for corroborating evidence,
40:41
SPEAKER_03: you know,
40:42
SPEAKER_03: and,
40:42
SPEAKER_03: and,
40:42
SPEAKER_03: and,
40:43
SPEAKER_03: and,
40:43
SPEAKER_03: and,
40:43
SPEAKER_03: and people who have sort of firsthand or even,
40:45
SPEAKER_03: or even secondhand understanding of what's going on there.
40:48
SPEAKER_03: So maybe we can just dive right into it to help,
40:50
SPEAKER_03: um,
40:51
help our listeners understand the way ICE is interacting with
40:55
the health system in,
40:57
SPEAKER_03: in,
40:57
SPEAKER_03: in the Twin Cities.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: So, um,
41:00
SPEAKER_03: So you're sort of in ground zero being in the in the metro area.
41:04
We're hearing reports of ICE and Border Patrol agents menacing
41:08
hospital patients
41:09
SPEAKER_03: and staff interfering with the delivery of health care in general.
41:13
SPEAKER_03: What is your experience, Ben?
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
41:15
so definitely have some firsthand experience and then also just
41:18
broadly hearing
41:19
SPEAKER_00: from so many people.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: We're all having conversations offline.
41:22
I'm part of so many new text message threads and email chains
41:25
than it ever was
41:26
SPEAKER_00: before of people just trying to watch out for one another,
41:29
SPEAKER_00: which I think is huge.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: But we all have seen ICE agents outside of our hospitals.
41:35
Many hospitals have reports of ICE agents kind of patrolling
41:39
the hospital parking
41:40
SPEAKER_00: garages,
41:41
SPEAKER_00: the first point of contact where patients are going to come.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: I,
41:45
SPEAKER_00: at one point,
41:45
SPEAKER_00: I believe they were ICE agents at least,
41:48
SPEAKER_00: saw them outside of our hospital ambulance bay,
41:50
SPEAKER_00: kind of where a patient pickup drop-off zone is supposed to be,
41:53
SPEAKER_00: just kind of stationed there,
41:54
SPEAKER_00: going in and out of the hospital.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Definitely, we've heard reports of ICE agents accompanying patients in.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: to emergency room facilities.
42:03
The specifics of all of that is a little sketchy because I
42:06
think a lot of people
42:07
with the firsthand stories are afraid of sharing too much
42:09
because they don't want
42:10
SPEAKER_00: to put their health systems in jeopardy or patients in jeopardy.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: But at least if a patient's in custody,
42:16
SPEAKER_00: technically ICE can come into those patient areas,
42:21
SPEAKER_00: which is a little iffy.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: They're not like normal law enforcement.
42:24
And then having that potential exposure and access to other
42:27
patients is really concerning.
42:30
We had a patient who was at one of our hospitals in the metro
42:33
who was shackled to
42:35
SPEAKER_00: their bed and had ICE agents at bedside for quite a long time.
42:38
There have been ICE agents who have refused to leave the room
42:41
when patients have
42:42
SPEAKER_00: sensitive exams or like have a bath,
42:44
SPEAKER_00: things like that,
42:45
like really sensitive things that those agents shouldn't be
42:47
there for regardless of
42:49
SPEAKER_00: what the situation is.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: And so maybe just to ask a couple of questions about it.
42:54
So in the instances where you've seen ICE agents or you've had
42:57
close colleagues
42:59
SPEAKER_03: witness ICE agents,
43:00
SPEAKER_03: are they as...
43:02
These armed and and like and like some of the images that I've
43:06
seen is like they
43:07
are in they are either in fatigues or full battle rattle and in
43:12
some cases like
43:13
SPEAKER_03: very armed.
43:14
And is that when they're when they're sort of crossing the
43:17
threshold from,
43:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
43:19
SPEAKER_03: out in the street into the medical setting?
43:21
SPEAKER_03: Is that remain?
43:21
SPEAKER_03: Is that the case?
43:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: And of course,
43:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
43:24
we can have lots of rules and guidelines and protocols of where
43:28
they can go.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: But when there's this kind of aggressive,
43:30
SPEAKER_00: appearing,
43:31
SPEAKER_00: intimidating presence,
43:33
SPEAKER_00: you know,
43:33
SPEAKER_00: what do you do in that situation,
43:35
SPEAKER_00: either as a patient or as a health care provider?
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: So we've we've.
43:44
SPEAKER_03: We've heard about,
43:45
SPEAKER_03: or at least sort of through the Great Bend,
43:47
SPEAKER_03: there's also a bit of fog of war on all of this stuff because,
43:51
SPEAKER_03: one,
43:51
SPEAKER_03: sometimes they're not clearly identifying themselves as ICE agents,
43:54
SPEAKER_03: but two,
43:54
SPEAKER_03: I know there's also a bit of fear seeping in.
43:57
Are you seeing instances of people avoiding getting health care
44:01
out of fear of
44:03
SPEAKER_03: being,
44:04
SPEAKER_03: for lack of a better term,
44:05
SPEAKER_03: abducted by the federal government?
44:08
Have stories of people avoiding care and not receiving needed
44:11
care come up?
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's our biggest concern right now.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: And constantly in all these conversations I am a part of,
44:19
SPEAKER_00: I see,
44:20
SPEAKER_00: hey,
44:20
there's this patient who needs access to mental health care who
44:23
can come to their
44:24
SPEAKER_00: home or do a telehealth visit.
44:25
This person is considering a home birth and they never
44:28
considered that before.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: What can they do?
44:30
There are people looking for resources and there are people on
44:33
the ground kind of
44:34
SPEAKER_00: minute by minute trying to figure out,
44:36
SPEAKER_00: well,
44:36
how can we rearrange our systems and meet these people where
44:40
they need us so we can
44:41
SPEAKER_00: safely provide health care?
44:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's really difficult because I think people,
44:45
SPEAKER_00: some people in the healthcare setting,
44:47
SPEAKER_00: we're all kind of rule followers and we think,
44:48
SPEAKER_00: well,
44:48
SPEAKER_00: everyone else follows the rules too.
44:50
And ICE has these particular protocols and they're only
44:52
supposed to be in XYZ area.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: And that's lovely to think that that's what's happening.
44:58
But even if it was,
44:59
patients have to get to the hospital in the first place.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: They have to leave their homes and they're,
45:03
SPEAKER_00: ICE is patrolling the streets in some areas.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: They're on the roadways.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: They're pulling people over based on profiling.
45:09
And so if you can't even get to that place of care,
45:12
you can't get the health care that you need.
45:14
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
45:15
Dr.
45:16
Stevens,
45:16
it's so funny that you bring up that healthcare folks are rule
45:19
followers.
45:19
As a longtime union organizer who now works with doctors across
45:23
the country,
45:24
SPEAKER_03: that couldn't be more true across the board.
45:27
SPEAKER_03: But sort of in that vein, have you seen instances of folks being sort of
45:38
SPEAKER_03: Whether,
45:38
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:38
SPEAKER_03: whether it's physicians or nurses and providers or,
45:41
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:42
SPEAKER_03: you know,
45:42
SPEAKER_03: fingers crossed,
45:43
SPEAKER_03: I bet not,
45:43
SPEAKER_03: but maybe like hospital systems or executives.
45:46
Have we seen have we seen any sort of bravery and courage on
45:49
that end in the face
45:50
SPEAKER_03: of what is like obviously an unprecedented situation?
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I think we're all trying to do our best, right?
45:56
SPEAKER_00: And,
45:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
45:57
even as I've just walked through the emergency room when I've
45:59
been on shift,
46:00
SPEAKER_00: it seems like every time I go through there,
46:02
SPEAKER_00: there's like some sort of huddle of,
46:03
SPEAKER_00: here's what we do if ICE arrives.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: And there's emails going out every day,
46:07
SPEAKER_00: human resources,
46:08
SPEAKER_00: contacting people,
46:08
SPEAKER_00: here's what to do,
46:09
SPEAKER_00: here's the chain of command.
46:11
And we all kind of have the script of what we need to say and
46:13
what we need to do.
46:14
I've heard reports of hospital volunteers standing up and
46:17
trying to intervene or
46:19
SPEAKER_00: record and kind of being pushed away as well.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: So I think
46:23
Minnesotans help each other out,
46:25
and we're definitely stepping out to try to protect everyone.
46:28
But again,
46:28
it's hard with such a large presence of agents,
46:31
and they are intimidating.
46:33
And as a federal agent,
46:34
what are you going to do if they tell you no,
46:36
right?
46:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: Maybe moving beyond sort of the bedside or the ED into public advocacy,
46:46
we've seen incredible images of all types of people fighting
46:52
back in their own way
46:54
SPEAKER_03: or educating the public or telling the story out of Minneapolis and St.
46:57
SPEAKER_03: Paul.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm someone who I really believe in the power of words.
47:01
SPEAKER_03: So I do a lot of writing and speaking.
47:19
write op-eds and testify and make little TikToks about what's
47:23
important and what's
47:23
SPEAKER_00: going on out there.
47:25
And so as I saw all this happening and saw a lot of physicians
47:28
trying to do good
47:29
SPEAKER_00: work and trying to connect,
47:30
which is really hard right now because everyone's kind of
47:32
working in secret and
47:34
trying to make sure that they're not making a lot of noise so
47:37
they don't draw the
47:37
SPEAKER_00: wrong attention.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: I started first just trying to organize physicians.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: How can we better communicate?
47:45
How can we get people connected on specific issues so that they
47:47
can work more
47:48
SPEAKER_00: effectively and efficiently?
47:50
SPEAKER_00: And then I do a lot of legislative advocacy.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to countless lawmakers for our state and said,
47:55
SPEAKER_00: is there anyone who would like to partner with physicians?
47:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know for what yet,
47:58
SPEAKER_00: if it's a statement or press conference,
48:00
SPEAKER_00: what we're going to do,
48:00
SPEAKER_00: but let's work together.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: And luckily,
48:02
SPEAKER_00: our two physicians,
48:03
SPEAKER_00: state senators,
48:04
SPEAKER_00: responded to me,
48:05
SPEAKER_00: senators,
48:06
SPEAKER_00: doctors,
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Manning Klein.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: They're both wonderful and have been really great allies in the past.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: And their staff helped us kind of throw this together.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: And of course, we're limited in time and who can speak.
48:19
And we really envisioned having so many wonderful speakers and
48:22
had to kind of pare
48:23
SPEAKER_00: it down to certain subject areas.
48:25
And I thought it was really important to try to get us to speak
48:28
on behalf of
48:29
SPEAKER_00: medical organizations,
48:30
because I think that's very powerful to say this entire
48:34
organization of physicians
48:35
SPEAKER_00: is concerned about this and is standing in solidarity.
48:38
And you probably know it can be really hard to get a medical
48:41
organization to write
48:42
a specific statement on a topic or endorse one because there's
48:46
lots of layers of
48:46
SPEAKER_00: nuance and bureaucracy and politics within organizations.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: So to be able to come out and say,
48:52
as the Minnesota section of the American College of OBGYNs and
48:56
American College of
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Emergency Physicians,
48:57
SPEAKER_00: all these different organizations,
48:59
here's what we say and here's what we believe and here's what
49:01
we're saying,
49:01
SPEAKER_00: that is a lot more powerful than I think the general public realizes.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And Senator Mann was the last one to speak at our conference yesterday.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: And she made this really great point.
49:11
It's it's really you don't see it a lot to have doctors from
49:15
all specialties all
49:16
across the state in the middle of the day on a Tuesday come
49:18
together and stand
49:19
SPEAKER_00: there together.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: So the showing that we had,
49:22
I thought that was the most impactful thing that we had all
49:24
these people that were
49:25
SPEAKER_00: able to come together and say,
49:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
49:27
SPEAKER_00: we stand with these words,
49:28
SPEAKER_00: we stand with these statements.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: So I was so happy that it worked out.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: And I hope it has an impact on people that they say,
49:35
SPEAKER_00: well,
49:35
SPEAKER_00: here's here's what's actually happening.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: You can talk again a lot about what would happen in a perfect world.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to it's.
49:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
49:42
I think when you have a phalanx of of accomplished people
49:46
wearing their white
49:47
SPEAKER_03: coats,
49:47
SPEAKER_03: speaking from a medical perspective,
49:49
SPEAKER_03: it's kind of hard to call them Antifa.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: Kudos, though, right?
49:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
49:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, watch out.
49:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
50:00
SPEAKER_03: I think that's great.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: And,
50:02
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:02
SPEAKER_03: on this show,
50:04
we are extremely critical of some of the legacy medical
50:06
societies around the
50:07
SPEAKER_03: country and their inability to get their shit together to be proactive
50:11
SPEAKER_03: communicators.
50:12
SPEAKER_03: But,
50:13
SPEAKER_03: like,
50:13
credit where credit is due to the people who came together and
50:16
are standing up for
50:17
SPEAKER_03: patients in Minnesota,
50:19
SPEAKER_03: all the Minnesota factions and chapters that participated in that.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: Kudos.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: Credit where credit's due.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:26
And,
50:26
you know,
50:27
there's lots of nurses doing this work,
50:29
too,
50:29
and other healthcare professionals.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to discount that at all.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: And I wish we could have had all those people speak, too.
50:36
But I think healthcare workers in general are really standing
50:39
together and really
50:41
SPEAKER_00: trying to fight for our patients right now.
50:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
50:43
SPEAKER_03: Well,
50:44
SPEAKER_03: you know,
50:44
SPEAKER_03: unfortunately,
50:45
I think this is probably not the end of ICE activities anytime
50:48
soon in in the Twin
50:50
SPEAKER_03: Cities.
50:50
So there'll be I think there'll be probably be plenty of
50:52
opportunities for people
50:53
SPEAKER_03: to speak up and speak out and tell their side of the story.
50:57
SPEAKER_03: Before we go.
50:58
SPEAKER_03: So is Trump?
50:59
It seems like Trump might be planning to escalate ISIS presence
51:03
around the country.
51:06
Particularly in blue cities,
51:07
my city of Chicago,
51:09
you know,
51:10
could be Philly,
51:11
could be Detroit.
51:12
SPEAKER_03: Who knows where they're going to go next?
51:14
SPEAKER_03: They have said they are going to come back to Chicago.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: But medical professionals across the country have to get ready for this,
51:19
particularly those that are in large systems and in major
51:23
metropolitan areas.
51:24
SPEAKER_03: What advice would you have for a lot of advocates listen,
51:28
SPEAKER_03: but a lot of health care providers listen to this podcast.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: What advice would you have for health care providers,
51:36
clinicians of all stripes who might see sort of what's
51:39
happening in Minneapolis and
51:41
SPEAKER_03: St.
51:41
SPEAKER_03: Paul come to a neighborhood near them in the future?
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
51:44
SPEAKER_00: I think organizing sooner rather than later,
51:47
SPEAKER_00: figuring out who are your friends,
51:48
SPEAKER_00: who are your allies,
51:49
SPEAKER_00: who
51:50
SPEAKER_00: You know,
51:50
a lot of what I'm seeing right now is people trying to figure
51:52
out how do we
51:53
SPEAKER_00: increase capacity for home care,
51:55
SPEAKER_00: home visits,
51:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
51:56
SPEAKER_00: and that's something that's hard to do on the fly and suddenly organize.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: So having a system to make that happen if you need it to.
52:03
Who are your actual friends within your organization and your
52:06
health system?
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Health systems having protocols.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Here's exactly what we do.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: If an ICE agent shows up, here's how we handle it.
52:12
It's better to know that in advance and prepare in advance than
52:15
try to keep up with
52:16
SPEAKER_00: emails every day of what's going on and what activity we're seeing.
52:20
just being being prepared that it is going to happen and that
52:24
you're going to have
52:25
SPEAKER_00: to figure out how to deliver health care in a totally new setting.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
52:30
SPEAKER_00: a lot of people keep conveying this to COVID because it's like this is an
52:33
SPEAKER_00: unprecedented thing we've never seen before.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly we have to make the health system adapt to that.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: So how how do we do that?
52:41
How do we get patients prescriptions in their homes and deliver
52:44
groceries and get
52:44
SPEAKER_00: them diapers and make sure that they're seen for their health care?
52:47
And then if they do need to go to a hospital,
52:49
how do we get them there safely?
52:50
All of that is everyone really organizing underground to make
52:53
that happen.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: I've been so impressed by seeing everything everyone is doing,
52:58
SPEAKER_00: but it shouldn't have to be last minute.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Let's try to make this happen.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: You should be prepared in advance.
53:03
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
53:03
SPEAKER_03: Don't wait.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: All right.
53:04
That's incredible that it's sort of being compared to the once
53:09
in a generation global pandemic.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: Health system is going to have to react in such a way as to confront that
53:14
SPEAKER_03: completely elective and unnecessary,
53:16
SPEAKER_03: by the way.
53:17
SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: Our entire lives have just been once in a generation.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: Things happening over and over again, right?
53:23
SPEAKER_00: So we're ready.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: Well,
53:25
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: Erin Stevens,
53:26
thank you so much for joining us today and pulling back the
53:29
curtain a little bit so
53:30
people can understand how people providing care in Minnesota
53:36
are confronting this
53:37
SPEAKER_03: incredible situation,
53:38
this incredibly tragic situation that's happening in the Great
53:42
Lakes State.
53:43
SPEAKER_03: I think we'll leave it at that.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: Dr. Stevens, thank you so much for joining us.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for others to hear this message.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're back.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: Rob,
53:56
SPEAKER_03: from Down Under,
53:57
SPEAKER_03: from tomorrow,
53:58
SPEAKER_03: anything you want to share with the audience before we go?
54:02
SPEAKER_03: I tell you what,
54:03
SPEAKER_03: the immediate future is bleak,
54:06
but hopefully we're all a part of the distant future being a
54:09
brighter day.
54:09
SPEAKER_03: So I'll leave you with that.
54:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
54:12
SPEAKER_03: That's helpful.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: And before we wrap, Dr. Rob, are you going to go see The Hobbit's house?
54:20
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
54:21
SPEAKER_03: Hobbiton is about an hour and a half.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Are you going to go to Hobbiton?
54:23
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
54:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: That's cool stuff.
54:27
SPEAKER_03: A little bit of a high school Lord of the Rings nerd myself.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: And if I had a chance to go see Hobbiton.
54:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I read the books in high school.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: I've been a nerd all along.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: I haven't.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: I haven't.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: I guess I haven't.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: Read The Hobbit since, you know, like 10th grade.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: Haven't read the trilogy since 12th grade in high school.
54:45
SPEAKER_03: But if I were in New Zealand,
54:46
SPEAKER_03: I would absolutely go see The Hobbit House and I would really enjoy it.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: And we get to go have a drink at the Green Dragon.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: That'll bring back memories.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Send a picture.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll do.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: Dr. Rob, thanks so much for chatting today from far away.
55:01
And today's episode was written by Chris Savage,
55:04
Dr.
55:04
Rob Davidson,
55:05
and me,
55:05
Miles Baker.
55:06
It was produced by Amelia Dillon-Schneider,
55:08
Joel Bryson,
55:08
and Chris Savage.
55:09
SPEAKER_03: It was edited by Darian Batigan.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: Our music is by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed today's show,
55:15
SPEAKER_03: please subscribe and leave us a rating on YouTube,
55:17
SPEAKER_03: Spotify,
55:17
SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts,
55:18
SPEAKER_03: or wherever you listen.
55:20
SPEAKER_03: Your support helps others discover the podcast.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: You can also follow Paging America on Substack.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: And if you want to help support all the things that we're doing here,
55:28
SPEAKER_03: please become a paying subscriber.
55:31
SPEAKER_03: Physicians, your voice matters.
55:32
Join the fight for better American health care by becoming a
55:34
member of the
55:34
SPEAKER_03: Committee to Protect Health Care.
55:35
SPEAKER_03: Visit www.committeetoprotect.org to learn more.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: Catch you next time, Dr. Rob.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: See you then.