Latest / The Unfiltered Tea with Evie / Legal Basics Every Female Founder Needs to Know with Elena Favaro Viana
Transcript
- Evie Tavares: I'm Evie, and you're listening to The Unfiltered Tea with Evie. I'm a business owner, a copywriter, and a storyteller at heart. And over the years of building my own business and growing my own community, the thing I've loved the most is hearing people's stories, the strategies that they swear by, the mindset shifts that changed everything for them, and the honest truth about what it takes to grow a business from the ground up. Every person has something that makes them different in their industry. And finding that thing and amplifying it is basically my whole job. And this podcast is just another way I get to do that. In this podcast, I'm bringing on incredible guests from my community, experts in marketing, business growth, and mindset to share the real, unfiltered version of what building a business looks like. There's no polished highlight reel in these episodes, just the tea. So let's get into it. this was such an epic interview and I'm still thinking about it. this was one where I literally I had questions outlined and I barely asked any of them because we just kept going down other tangents and I just had more and more questions and I feel like it's something, it's a topic that doesn't get talked about a lot as business owners, but is something that we're always curious about. So I can't wait for you to listen to this one. So without further ado, I am super excited to introduce our next guest on the Unfiltered Tea with Eevee, Elena Favreau Vienna. Elena is the founding and managing partner of EFV Legal, a law firm dedicated to small businesses and entrepreneurs, working almost exclusively with female founders and women in business. Elena is not your traditional lawyer. She is on a mission to Professionalize small business as your legal partner in business through business law, wills, and estates, contracts, real estate, and advisory services to help you from idea to exit. So you can already probably tell what kind of questions I was asking during this episode. So lean in and enjoy this conversation with Elena. welcome back to another guest episode of The Unfiltered Tea with Evie. I'm here with Elena this morning and I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for coming on. Elena: Well, thank you honestly for having me. I feel like since we've met, I've just been like, I need to chat more with Evie. So I'm really excited for this morning. Evie Tavares: Yeah, me too. And we're gonna have a good chat about all things legal because that is what you do. so for people who aren't familiar with you, do you wanna kinda introduce yourself and and let people know what you do? Elena: Yeah, the the sweet version is I'm the founder of a boutique law firm called EFE Legal. We specialize in business law primarily for women in business and female founders, sort of our niche demographic like dem demographic, I would say. and we do everything. We do everything from sort of idea to exit. So we can help you start your business, we can establish your, you know, your business roots, we can do your contracts, we can help you with advisory for, you know, hiring or firing, or your, you know, if there's some sort of client issue or dispute. all the way to wanting to sell your business or bring on investors or partners. Evie Tavares: Amazing. And what's kind of your journey that led you to having your own firm, your own boutique firm? Elena: So that's a big one. That's a big question. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Elena: so basically It was but it was an accident. Like I'll just say transparently, like it was quite an accident. I I never had dreams of starting my own law firm. Even now when I think about it, I'm like, my goodness. So I run like a big girl, a big girl business. so my background was I wanted I wanted to save the world. So I went to law school because I wanted to be a diplomat. I wanted to change the world. I was really passionate about global justice issues and I had a, you know, a strong passion for international criminal justice issues in particular. And so after After law school, you know, my first you know, job was with United Nations in Cambodia. So I ended up moving to Cambodia for a year and then I worked under the international judges there on I don't know if anyone's familiar with the genocide and the crimes against humanity that occurred in the 70s. So that was an active trial that was happening. And so that was sort of my first big job after law school. And then after that I ended up moving to the Netherlands of all places and I went to school there. I got my master's degree in international criminal law. So I was really sort of pursuing a completely different trajectory. And I worked at the International Criminal Court for a while, was working on a defense case for a former African president, which was really, really interesting. And then I fell in love, which I think is the plot twist here. Then I fell in love, and and he he was he's so lovely, but he's so different than me and he said you know he was pretty clear with me he's like mm I don't know if I really want to move around all the time which is kind of interesting because he ended up moving to Canada to be with me anyway so I always say imported my now fiance soon to be husband. and so we said, okay, let's go back to Canada for a little bit. And at that time I still didn't get called to the bar, still didn't have my license. So we're like, let's move back for a little bit. And a lot happened in that journey. So so two things happened. one, I got very sick. so so I got I have endometriosis and anyone that's familiar with endometriosis, it's pretty gnarly and it can be really gruesome. And some people have endometriosis. doesn't really impact their daily life, but then there's some people where it really impacts their daily life. And so for me I I was sort of on the other side of the fence for a while. and so there were three years, I call them my dark years, where I was sick, you know, three weeks out of every single month. but bad. So I won't go into too much, but I realized then that I could never be an employee again because of the accommodations that I required. And it really opened up sort of a whole other world of like accessibility in a different way. Like I'm a very able bodied person, but I have this invisible disease that just took me out like I was not functioning. And so I started exploring entrepreneurship. And so we're back here in Toronto. And at this point, it was like 2018 and 2019 and there was this massive boom of of entrepreneurship that was happening online. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: and that was something that I I didn't see before. You know, before I was in Asia and before I was in Europe and and it wasn't really happening over there. Or maybe I I didn't notice as much as maybe it's happening now. But I came back to Toronto and North America was like everybody was just having a social media business. Everybody was on Instagram on Instagram and everybody was flaunting these these numbers of what they were making, which you know we now know. slightly inflated, but but Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: it was very magical. It was very magical. And so I started being captivated by entrepreneurship and I said, okay, listen, so I clearly need accommodations. You know, if I'm sick, I need control over my schedule. There's no boss on the planet that is gonna actually hire me and be comfortable with the amount that I'm sick. Like I'm just not able to participate in society the way that I traditionally thought. And Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: so I started s exploring different business ideas. So fast forward a little bit and we get to 2020 and I was really deep in wanting to build out a co-working space of all things. And so I wanted to build out a co-working space and I actually went ahead and signed a lease the last week of February 2020. And and I don't know what God was on my side because we all know what happened March thirteenth. but Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: it just so happened that it was in the cooling off period of the lease and so I was actually able to get out of the lease without any problems, without any penalty, and then the world paused. Right. So the world paused, the pandemic started, and then I didn't know what to do. So I sat there being like, Okay, so clearly I can't have a brick and mortar right now. That's on pause for a couple of weeks, right? Like we all thought a couple of weeks. Evie Tavares: Right. Elena: and at the time my my friend, my old roommate from law school said, Well, Elena, you know, you have your law degree now in Canada, you're eligible to practice. Why don't you just do a couple of legal services just to sort of bridge the gap between whatever is gonna happen with the world and then go back to your original plan? And so So we all kind of know how that panned out, but I thought, yeah, you know, let's start. So I made a little post on Instagram on April 17th, 2020. I thought I would make maybe a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars. I thought, you know, just do a little bit here and there just to to wait it over. but at that time it really felt like the floodgates had opened and God said to me was just like, you know, this is what you're meant to be doing the whole time. because Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: we were profitable within three weeks. I was full time a month and a half after that. I had my first hire three months after that. Like it really just became full blown and I think it was just a combination of perfect timing and also just really being in alignment with what I was supposed to be doing. So EFE Legal was born. So that's Evie Tavares: I love that. Elena: bit of a journey, bit of a bit of a windy road, but we got here. Evie Tavares: Yeah. And it feels like from the way that you talk about it, it feels like this is where it was supposed to end up all along. Elena: This is where we're supposed to end up all along. Like I can't explain how happy I am and how purposeful like when you're truly living in purpose and passion, like it's it's incredible. It's very different than where I thought, you know, where I started because I think my previous life as an international criminal or and being in that world was very magical. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: and I do miss it. Don't you know, d don't mistake that. I do miss it and and a part of me wishes I could go back or maybe I still can. But I had to be here and I had to do this. And I realized maybe I wouldn't wasn't gonna be an entrepreneur myself, but I was gonna be adjacent. And so now I spend my days honestly working with the female founder and the female entrepreneur and the w you know, the woman in business, helping them grow their passions Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: and helping them establish businesses and protect their businesses and be their partner. And and there's a real level of satisfaction that that comes with that. And through Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: that journey of being in alignment, I also I'm not gonna say I healed in Demetrios'. because it's an incurable disease, but we got over the hump and now we're able to you know, I'm not sick near nearly, nearly as much as I as I was before that. Evie Tavares: Yeah, that's good. And I'm curious when people think legal, they kind of feel like intimidated. They think of like men in suits and like maybe a little bit scary. People kind of avoid the conversation, talking about contracts and legal. How have you kind of bridged that gap from like what a traditional legal company looks like to what you've built with EFE legal? Elena: it listen, it's it's a problem I think I'm still combating because I do think that you know, women in particular, even men but women in particular are very afraid of legal. I think there's this, you know, this demystification that we're still constantly fighting, which is, you know, if you have a business, you're already in bed with legal. You know, having a business is an inherently legal privilege afforded to Canadians. So if you have a business here in Canada, sorry, you're already in an intimate relationship. And so what we're trying to do is hand holding, right? I think the difference is We focus so specifically on the female founder and the women in business because that's the woman that undermines their success all of the time. And I think what we're doing is a lot of education. Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: So what I think people think of with lawyers is some old white man in some ivory tower, you know, downtown, you know, you know the sixtieth floor, whatever the case is, and super, super expensive. and so that's a conversation that I'm constantly having, which is no, it doesn't have to be like that. You know, I will go to the networking events that you're at and I will meet you in person. You know, I'll host a little booth, I'll speak on a little stage, or I'll just attend so that you get to s to meet me. 'cause I think if I don't go where you are, then then that barrier still exists. So that's that's Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: That's one way. And then the other way is a lot of education. Like there is truly an art to having lunch with your lawyer, okay? And the lawyer draws the next corporate structure plan on a on a napkin at lunch and hands it over to you and says, This is how we're gonna protect you, like this is how we're gonna create generational wealth for you. Like this is what you're gonna need in order to launch that next project that you've been working on, or to like boost that next collaboration or partnership with that stakeholder that you're planning on doing. And that education is where one where I make business, but also Where I think we're demystifying and removing the level of fear around it. Because somebody even said to me, like, there's much sexier things to spend money on than legal. But I think the the competing thought to that is legal, you know, we're trying to make it sexy, but it's the foundational element. It's just like your taxes, it's just something that has to happen, and you Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: can have fun with it. Because the more sophisticated you are with legal, the more excited. I promise it is actually really exciting. What you can do with your business, it isn't something to avoid is something that really protects you and can build frameworks for longevity of not only your business but your family, generational planning. Like there's so much we can do. and when somebody's excited about that, like, those lunches are so good. Evie Tavares: Yeah. And I love like so when we first met we had dinner together at the High Vibe Women. And I think that's Elena: Yes. Evie Tavares: what really like drew me to it as well and made me want to have you here is that you make it so approachable. 'Cause when you think of legal, like I think of like big long terms and words I don't understand and everything like that. And it's just making it like you said, adding that education piece to make it really educational so people understand what you're doing instead of just paying for something that they don't really know what happened. Elena: W and I I think the old way of practicing law was that. It was I'm gonna Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: use the big words so that I can justify the cost associated with the service. Okay? And I Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: just think that that is such an outdated way of doing things, especially when we live in a world where people are I don't know, let's look at the marketing or you marketing. Marketing charges Evie Tavares: Yeah. Elena: a lot. A lot, right? a lot more than legal does. And it's so interesting to me how how they get away with it. They don't use fancy words, you know, they just they sell their product in a way that makes sense to the end user because th it's tangible. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: and so I don't think that we need to be using big words. And if I could be quite frank with you, I don't know what half the big words mean either. You know, I'm Googling them Evie Tavares: Hehehehe Elena: saying just like you, because we don't need them. You know, they're they're a f they're a flutter. that and I'll tell you there's a strategy behind using them, and we use them when we need to fight with opposing counsel. If there's another lawyer on the other Evie Tavares: Hmm. Elena: side, there is an ego battle of who's smarter than the other, and the strategy that we choose, that's when we'll throw in the in the words. But if it comes to building a master services agreement for you to give to your client, there's no need for them. Like, what's the point? You don't know what they are, the client doesn't know what they are, they don't do any level of protection for you. What does protect you is outlining clearly how many reports. revisions you're actually giving somebody before Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: you're gonna charge more for the revisions. Like scope creep. That's what we care about and that doesn't need to be a big fancy word. Evie Tavares: Right. And so leaning in a bit more into the education, what would you Elena: Yeah. Evie Tavares: say is like the number one thing that you wish every female founder knew or did when it comes to legal? Elena: Love this question. Hmm. I think you know what the first thing that comes to mind is to not avoid it, but that's you know, it's that's silly. So So I think, you know, Evie Tavares: Hehehehe Elena: don't avoid it. But the other is to be really curious about it. Okay, because Evie Tavares: Hm. Elena: I I th you know, a big question is or here is I'm too small, like I don't need a lawyer yet. And that's truly a mistake because pre revenue is when you need a lawyer, before you've even made a dollar is when you should have that first conversation and that first touch point. And then Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: building out and understanding what triggering events in what you're trying to build will then necessitate a legal protection. And I think so leading with curiosity, is big, right? Like start that conversation, have that consultation and just, you know, be like, this is what I'm planning on building. What do you think I what do you think I need? And allowing yourself to be educated about something, right? Like I think allowing yourself to understand, okay, this could be very, very simple or it could be something really, really complex depending on where you're growing. So I think curiosity is where I would start and rather than avoidance and fear. And then Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: the basics, the very, very basic that every new business needs, we call the new business bundle. And that is a series of contracts that every business needs regardless. And so that's gonna be your website protection. So if you have a website, you are legally required in Canada to have a privacy policy. And then we like to couple that with terms and conditions that tells people what they can or cannot do with your intellectual property or what they cannot cannot do with the services or products that you're selling. So that would be a minimum as well as a service agreement. Like if you're a service provider, getting a bespoke, beautiful, you know, master services agreement that's customized to how you're doing services, that's what I would do in the new business bundle as a minimum to get started. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Amazing. And something that you also offer that I think I feel like this is a conversation that a lot of people avoid. And this goes for like business owners but also not business owners, is around like wills and estates. And I think when we're young, we really don't think about it. Like even I'm guilty of it with me and my husband, like we don't really think about it very much. But Elena: What? Evie Tavares: when do you think like that needs to start and that needs to be taken care of? Elena: Okay, I love that you brought this up because I find that Evie Tavares: Ha ha ha. Elena: I I honestly skip over wills and estates so often and I really, really shouldn't because okay, so there's actually you know statistics and research done on this. Like we don't as human beings think about our mortality until the age of fifty. Okay. The problem is is at fifty, it's too late to do anything about your mortality. Even when it comes from a financial compounding perspective, you know, fifty you would have lost the boat on twenty or thirty years of saving and investing, right? When it comes from a health perspective, 50 is too late to reverse any of the signs of of damage that you would have already done in your 30s, right? You know, even from a health perspective, they say at the age of 35 you've already sort of set the map of what conditions you're gonna have later on in life, whether they be cardiovascular or you know your brain function. These are things that you can start reversing naturally in your 30s. But we don't think about our death or the end until we hit 50. So when it comes to legal and actually planning your will as an estate, we biologically don't think about it before the age of 50. So it's a fight. It's a bit of an it's it's counterintuitive because we think we're immortal. We think we're invincible. We have so much time on our hands, we're still young. But The challenge is if you do unfortunately become the person that gets hit by a bus tomorrow, God forbid, you know, if that is you, what are you leaving behind? Okay. And if you die interstate, which is one of the fancy words that means you die without a will, here in Ontario at least, it is a nightmare for the loved ones you leave behind if you pass away without a will. It truly Evie Tavares: Mm mm. Elena: is. So there are triggers that I would say necessitate the need for you to put a will in place, even if it's a very, very simple will, something that the court can can probate. effectively the process upon your passing is necessary. If you don't have this, it's so much more complicated. So you the triggering things for me would be property. The second you own real estate, whether jointly or in your personal name, absolutely a will must be accompanying that purchase. Like there's there there really shouldn't be an excuse if you own property. because I'm telling you it's a nightmare if you don't have a will and you own property. So one Two family. If you have kids, if you're married, both of these are triggering events that to me say we need to put something in place because we're no longer talking about just you. You are now part of a unit and we need to put some planning in place for your kids and for your you know your spouse. Even if you're in a common law relationship, this is critical. So family. So kids and family. business. If you have a business, if you have shares in a corporation, you're actually eligible for something called a secondary will. So it's multiple wills. So a lot of people don't know that you can have more than one will. And you can have a primary will which deals with your personal assets, things that you own in your personal name. But if you have shares in a company, like your corporation, if you know if you have a corporation, if that's your business structure, you can have a secondary will for your corporation. So now we're talking about legacy planning for the company because a corporation can outlive the shareholder. So what are we doing with the company? And if you have multiple wills, you actually pay less tax on death if they're structured properly, because you Can actually flow assets through the two corp, you know, the two wills. It's a bit of a technical process, but it means that you're leaving more behind for your family and loved ones. So that necessitates something. and then the other one is significant assets. If you have money in the bank, if you've been saving, if you've been investing, if you buy anything expensive, I don't know, a boat or you know, a fancy car. well, any car really, but a car of some value, these things would also necessitate some planning. So any of those things. I say i it's time to start thinking about about a will and putting something in place. and Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: I would do that, you know, as a benchmark within 12 months of reaching that that goal, you know, that triggering event, put something in place. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. And yeah, I th I think that's interesting what you said that we don't even think about it until fifty. That's crazy to Elena: We don't. We don't we Evie Tavares: me. Elena: Well and and then then it's sad 'cause imagine we're all gonna be fifty one and we're gonna like, god, I'm gonna die right here in the system of your life. and then you're gonna scramble. So you know Evie Tavares: Right. Yeah. Elena: I I we're all gonna live very long and we're all gonna be very healthy, you know. That's that's the baseline understanding. But but it is interesting because a lot happens before that. And then you can update your will and estate plan, you know, incrementally with each change. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: great, I think people don't realize this. Some people might be like, well, I haven't, you know, completed my family planning, for example. Right? Like I only have one kid so but but I definitely want two or three more right so so when do I do my will and your will can actually account for future generations so you can actually already put aside now for future kids you know born biologically or via IVF and you can even start planning for future grandkids already in your will. So you can be set now. You don't have to wait for everything to be complete. You're not wasting money. but things you know it makes sense to then update your will incrementally as you change things, you know, if you move houses, if you want to change some of the appointments that you've put in there, maybe you're not friends with somebody anymore, maybe a family member passed away that you want to change things around for, or if you you know you you in acquire more wealth or more assets that need to be accounted for. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. And something that you mentioned in there that kind of is another question I feel like a lot of people have when it comes to business is around corporations. So Elena: Yes. Evie Tavares: sole proprietor versus becoming incorporated. What's kind of Elena: Eevee, these questions are so good. These are really good questions. I have a both too. Evie Tavares: I know my audience. I know my audience and what they're gonna want me to ask. Yes. Elena: Yeah, I love your audience. Okay. So I have such a bone to pick with this because what people do is they're like, I'm gonna start a business and so then they go on Google. Okay, or they go on AI now, I guess. But they'll go on Google, let's say traditionally, and they're like, start a business. and then you're just gonna get inundated with a bunch of, you know, hits that say you need to register a corporation. And and so the lay person, that means like the average person will just go ahead and register a corporation because that's what's being sold to you and it looks really lucrative. I mean, there's a lot of softwares that are doing it for a fraction of the price that a lawyer would. So So people are just registering or incorporating their businesses. The problem The problem here is that an incorporation is one business structure. And you've already said sole proprietorship, corporation, there's partnerships, but the main Evie Tavares: Hm. Elena: one for the average person would be a sole prop or a corporation. And they are treated so differently at law. And so a corporation is not necessarily better. I actually view it as sort of the graduation level of business, not the starting point. And so it's so critical to understand the difference and how it applies to you because a corporation is not the only way to start a business. Like a sole prop, for example, sole proprietors. You don't have to register anything if you're operating under your full legal name. Like if I wake up today and Alan of Raviana wants to open, you know, lemonade stand under my name, or I want to do consulting services under my name, I don't need to register anything and I don't need to tell anybody anything. I can just start operating, which is an amazing benefit that we have as Canadians, and not all jurisdictions around the world even have this luxury. So really like practicing some gratitude that Canada's afforded us the right to even do this. But you can just start. And I love that because if we're Testing out a new idea, even from a revenue threshold, sole proprietorship makes the most amount of sense if we haven't generated any income yet, if we're not sure if it's gonna take off, if this is just a side hustle, right? So, or and and we don't have any full-time employment income, or maybe we do, but it's not that much. So any income we make on the sole proprietorship side isn't gonna increase our income dramatically. So let's say you know you're making $50,000 as a salary, and then your side hustle only makes $30K, you know, that puts you at $80,000 for the for the year, which is still a great tax bracket to be in. So I think sole proprietorship makes sense for a lot of reasons. and we can dive into it more if that didn't make too much sense. But there's the second business model, which is corporation, and the corporation only works if you have more money than you need to live on. Okay, that's really the golden rule. If you have more money Evie Tavares: Interesting. Elena: than you need to live on, yes, because a corporation only provides you benefits. Benefits if you really leave money left over in the company and then it shields you from liability protection, which is also important. But There's also a carrying cost of having a corporation. So I say, you know, just as an estimate, it there's money involved in order to set it up. And then there's annual compliance every single year for a corporation, which people don't realize. You have two annual obligations every single year. First, you have to pay corporate taxes in addition to your personal income tax. So it's two filings with your accountant now. And your accountant is going to charge you double the fees. Usually corporations are charged higher than personal income or personal tax. Returns, so you have that fee, but there's also a legal annual return, which most people don't realize, which also has a fee associated with it. So you're looking at about two thousand dollars every year just to carry a corporation. Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: Now, that amount of money, plus or minus, right? It really depends. You know, I'm just throwing out a figure here. so don't don't don't hold me to it, but You know, $2,000 every single year can be a lot or cannot be a lot, depending on the stage of business that you're in. So Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: if you're running a lemonade stand, $2,000 a year is really gonna cut into your profits, right? Evie Tavares: Yeah. Elena: and maybe if you're in year one or year two of your business and you know, you haven't necessarily made enough profit, right? Like you're really running lean. Every money that you're making, you're reinvesting back into the business. So there isn't a bulk of cash left over. $2,000 on top of that really eats into whatever's left over for you. So that Don't make a lot of sense. Now it starts Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: to make sense when you're making more money than you need. Okay. If we're making an extra, I don't know, 20,000, 50,000, 500,000 that's just extra profit in the company, then we don't want to pull that out personally because then we're pulling it out personally and we're gonna be paying the highest amount of tax on that, right? Whatever Evie Tavares: Right. Elena: we fall in. If we leave it in the company, now it's gonna be taxed at a lower percentage. And there's a whole calculation behind this, and I would say definitely you need to talk to your accountant. And your lawyer about before proceeding with an incorporation in order to get the best bang for your buck with that structure. But it isn't the first starting point because you know there's more to it, administratively burdensome as well. but there's a lot of benefits if your business is actually thriving, if you're actually turning a profit in your business, then it makes sense. So So sometimes I find people go to it too premature and then we're stuck spending Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: money dissolving it or we're stuck doing a lot of compliance corporate cleanup, which is more expensive because they've been neglecting their obligations for a few years. So Evie Tavares: Right. Elena: yeah. I hope that answers that question. Evie Tavares: It does, yeah. And I'm curious, like, I feel like something I wanted to talk about as well, because AI is very much in the conversation now and there's Elena: Ooh, yes. Evie Tavares: like around getting your contracts done by AI and that kind of thing. So Elena: Mm-hmm. Evie Tavares: what do you think are the pros? Obviously there are more pros of actually trusting the professionals and going to the professionals. Is that something that you're seeing more where people are kind of like skipping that step? And what are your thoughts around that with AI? Elena: Evie, this is such a hot topic question. I'm actually really impressed with your questions. Because this question is so hot topic right now. And it's it's so, it's so, so, so interesting. So, like, I love AI. Like, I want to really preface this. Like, I think AI is phenomenal as a tool, okay? But Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: we cannot outsource rational thinking to AI. We can't. And the second we start doing that, we're literally inviting, you know, brain atrophy. and I and I worry a little bit about sort of the direction the the humankind is going in because I think there's two camps. I think there's one camp. that, you know, for lack of a better word, it's gonna get stupider. and another camp Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: that, you know, is gonna become more successful. And I think it's how we're using AI to leverage those skills. Because if you're outsourcing rational thinking, you're gonna be in a stupider camp. I'm gonna tell you that right now. So utilize AI to be more efficient, to build systems, to be productive for education, for resources, you know, to leverage your mastery. Because the camp that's gonna become more successful with AI is going to be leaning so much more into their expertise. Okay. the the jack of all trades is gonna slowly be eradicated. The person with true expertise is gonna fare out on top. So using sort of my my belief system if you will on AI, AI also doesn't necessarily have a place in legal yet. And I don't know when it will or where it's going, but what I'm seeing is really interesting is traditionally somebody would need to do, you know, some some form of legal work, whether it be case mapping or contract review, and they would, you know, delegate it to a junior and the junior would spend two or three hours on it. Now we're seeing AIs being able to take up a lot of that work and doing it in a fraction of the time. So what's happening is the lawyer Isn't charging less, the lawyer is actually getting rid of their juniors and increasing their hourly rate. So I think the public is having trouble with this because where a lawyer traditionally maybe charged $300, $350, $400 an hour. All of a sudden now they're charging $550, $600 an hour because they're doing it in a fraction of the time, but they're still providing that quality of service. Now, the average consumer struggles with this because they're What do you have to pay you $600 an hour? So there's a lack of education on the sophistication of what you're receiving. Yeah. So that's gonna be an issue. The second thing is, I'm seeing a lot of people go to AI to write their contracts, which I think is really Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: the crux of the issue. And what it's generating, and I've seen, I've seen AI contracts. I mean, they're beautiful. They look really, really good. Even I see when I'm like, wow, this is structured so beautifully. But the second you start reading it, you understand the flaws. and it's really just a fancy piece of paper that doesn't do anything for you. And it's because it's really missing one, the level of personalization. Required for you and your business. What are your business policies and how do you want to do business? Because just having a contract doesn't protect you unless it protects the way that you're doing business. So The prompt engineering is lacking if you don't have the expertise. And I'm not gonna even Evie Tavares: Hm. Elena: say every lawyer can do this. I think it's the lawyer that's trained in your specific industry. You know, I say this all the time. If somebody came to me, you know, from the mining industry, yes, I'm a lawyer, but I wouldn't know the first thing about protecting a mining-based business. But if you come to me with your agency, you know, with your coaching business, with your e-commerce shop, with your podcast, like I know everything about your industry and the sophistication of how to fine-tune those contracts. is really gonna shine. And so AI will put something together. Now the next thing I see is somebody will go to AI to save a dollar, only to spend tens of thousands of dollars more protecting the dispute because the contract did nothing for them. Or Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: they'll bring this contract to me and they'll be like, can you review it? You know, because AI also sometimes give us a disclaimer that says, get a lawyer to review this. And I'm gonna tell you right now Lawyers charge more for review of AI contracts because we're rewriting the whole thing. And so It's not it's not working for you the way you think it does. I can even give you a really tangible example. We had somebody really interestingly come to the firm. They were investing a sizable amount of money into a business. Sizable, multiple zeros at the end of this. And they're investing a sizable amount of money. And the the company receiving the money basically gave them an investor doc. And it was a one-page document and they came to the firm and they're like, we need you to review this. And there's nothing to review. This document was AI generated. It was not at all correct. It was not structured the right way. It did nothing to protect the investor or the company. And so the advice there is, you know, with our level of expertise, we charge them an hourly rate to say, you take this document, you go right back to them, and you get them to spend the money, the three thousand dollars, to get this drafted properly by their lawyer before you even give them a penny. Because if they're Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: not investing money, you know, into their legal to do this properly. Why would you give them half a million dollars? It doesn't make any sense. So Evie Tavares: Yeah. Elena: I'm seeing a lot of stupidity come out through all of this, more than anything. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. And wasn't there a couple of lawyers, I can't remember if it was in the States or something, but they used AI to write something for the magistrate? Is that the right word? And it hallucinated. Elena: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Anytime you go to court Exactly. People are using like so AI is so validating that it will literally come up with case law to support your strategy and thinking and a lot of lawyers are not doing their due diligence to see if this case even exists. or if it says whatever AI is telling them to do. So it's not a research tool. Like AI does not pull from databases that have been actually, you know, prepared and put together yet unless it's getting the licenses to do that or it's being trained on those databases. So a lot of a lot of lawyers are being dinged for this right now because what they're looking incredibly stupid, but also they're wasting the court's time and the court is so backlogged. So why are they bringing false cases to support, you know, their their strategy that doesn't look you know, it's not legitimate. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Elena: so yeah, it's causing issues for sure. Evie Tavares: Yeah, I can see that for sure. okay, something else that we actually have in common is being mums as well. I know that you have a little one at home. So I'd love to kind of talk about that because obviously like you started your business before you had your daughter. How did it change once you did have your daughter? Elena: Okay. We're really sitting there. So I I love Evie Tavares: We're really switching gears here, sorry. Elena: this. I love this because I think I had a very different perspective on motherhood than the average, at least in my circles, I would say. You know, in my personal circles, a lot of my friends are not entrepreneurs. and a lot of entrepreneurs you know, I either met them when they had kids or they're not thinking about kids. So when it was my turn, my turn when I got pregnant I remember having and you know vividly remember having a fear an insane amount of fear because I I was afraid that by having a child that I would have to choose between my business and motherhood and Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: I was afraid that the world would perceive me as having rearranged my priorities meaning that I would get less business because now I'm a mother and I'm I'm you know too busy doing that. So I didn't share my pregnancy for the longest time and I and I didn't even tell clients because I didn't want people to think that I wasn't available for them, that I, you know, that I now had to be a mom. And I struggled with the idea of maternity leave. I mean, we're so blessed here in Canada to be afforded those 12 to 18 months as an employee. So everyone around me was taking these beautiful long maternity leaves. But when you're self-employed, that's it's a totally different conversation. And so Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: you really struggled. struggle with do I save enough money to actually take a maternity leave and then risk losing the momentum that I've built only to have to restart it later because I'd seen some friends go down that path and it's not easy. It's not easy to start and stop your business. And I also have payroll. Which was a you know, sort of this black cloud looming over me, was like, how the heck am I gonna continue to pay my staff if I'm not bringing in the business and I'm not doing the strategy and I'm not doing the networking? So it was really, really, really terrifying. And my team kept asking me, they're like, Elena, so what's the plan? Like you going on Mat Leave? Like you taking time off? And I and I just kept waiting. I honestly kept waiting for a download. I kept waiting for a message from God, the universe, well whoever, to basically give me the roadmap. And it never came. Day by day, it literally did not come. We were like a week out from my due date and my team was like, So are you stopping? And I was like, listen guys, I don't know. I said, one day you're gonna get a message in Slack. It's gonna say SOS and I'm gonna be out. Like that's it. Baby's coming and you're just gonna have to pick up everything. And and what ended up happening is I never got the message and I never took a maternity leave. Like that's really the p the punchline because I was, you know, on my way to I had a really interesting, you know, we're not getting into the label story, but I ended up having a C section and I was on my way to get my C section and I was on the phone with my clerk in order to make sure that a deal was closing. Like that was my last call. It was not to my family, which in hindsight should have been, but the deal had to close. and then the next day I was back on the phones with bank and then the day after that I was back on my And then the day after that I was back on, you know, so I never actually stopped and it and it just sort of naturally happened. And so what I've learned Through all of this, is that women have so much more power inside of us than I think we're given credit for. And you get to decide what you want motherhood to look like. And I think that's like the overarching thing here. Because if you want to stop, then by all means, stop, pause, take your Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: well-deserved maternity leave. but if you're living in fear because of you know what you think is happening, like let me be an example to you that as a woman you can hold it all, you can hold being the matriarch of your family. family, you can hold running a full-time business and you can hold being an incredible mother. What has to give here isn't necessarily you because I do think like we have hormones that truly make us like superhuman beings. Like I don't understand. It isn't even the lack of sleep. Like you will get by. It's it's incredible how your hormones just like rally behind you and like you get it done. But the the thing that's missing is the support. You need someone at the helm. Okay. And every family was very different in that. And so when we were looking at it at my family, it just made sense. Like my business was taking off. My partner's was in, you know, he was an employee. It was very easy for him to start and stop his career. And so he ended up being the stay-at-home dad. And so we had that full time support reversed. And I work from home. So I was able to, you know, still nurse full time. And I was able to still be incredibly present in both areas because I had that rock, right? I Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: don't know how women do it if they had to do it all by themselves. I want to be really transparent because that's a whole other journey that I can't speak on. But it works really well for us. And it was like incredible because what ended up happening with my business where I thought it was just gonna crash and burn, you know, in the rest of the year, which would have been a traditional Matt year leave year, you know, we grew by forty-five percent. In revenue, and now Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: a year out after that, we've grown by 70% in revenue. And the only thing that changed was that I became a mother, and all of a sudden, all these clients, instead of thinking my priorities were different, they were like, 'Hey, you understand motherhood. I want to hire you, I want to work with you because you now understand a whole other demographic that I didn't understand before, which was working moms and women in business that are holding it all.' So it's in a really, really beautiful, beautiful journey for me. and I feel incredibly like rooted in so. Much gratitude that I I also like feel like I didn't lose myself because I held on to my identity through all of it. I almost Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Elena: feel like not that I've experienced it, but women that go on traditional Mat Leaves, you know, I think that's where some of the harder stories come out of that journey because they've Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: had to stop one identity, start another, and then when that mat leave is up over, completely stop that identity and restart another one. Like there's so much mourning and grieving that goes through all of that that they don't get to really identify with or even experience properly. so yeah, it's it's just it's been beautiful. It's been really, really beautiful. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I think that goes to show that like everybody's journey can look different. Like you can literally it's like a what's it called? Make your own adventure. That's not the right word. Choose your own adventure. Right? Elena: Yes, that's a tricky Yes, yes. I love that. Those books are so good. Evie Tavares: Yeah. I know. But it's like whatever everybody's different. Everybody wants different things. And something else that I know that you mentioned is that you bring your family along a lot, like when you're traveling. So even if you're away, you bring them along, like it doesn't seem like you're like it seems like you're still be able to be present even though you're doing all of these amazing things with your business. Elena: Yes. I I I think yeah, the fact that, you know, my partner doesn't work, we've had didn't have to worry about his like vacation scheduling. So Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: we just traveled Like in her first year, my daughter went on nine flights. Like we've been psychotic. she's too spoiled. We've got to calm down. But we you know, we spent a lot of time abroad because I found if I got away from Toronto, if I moved away and we were traveling, then I could do the two things that I actually wanted to do, which was be a mother and work. And all of the other stuff, which actually takes up time, like cleaning the house and having all of these visitors that I'm like, where have you been the last five years of my life and now you want to come? Like I you know the the time that I get to spend with my daughter evenings and weekends, I've really protected it like so fiercely because I naturally I miss her. Like I naturally miss her by being at work. So I don't Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: want to share that time with others. So when we're traveling I get to be really really fully present in the two things that I do care about, which is motherhood and work. And as long as I maintain and protect those two things things you know everything else fall falls aside, right? Like don't even talk to me about my health right now. We'll you know, we'll come back. The come back we'll come back later, you know? We'll circle back. But those are Evie Tavares: We'll circle back on that. Elena: the two you know, something always has to give. And I think if you you know, if you put the things that you care about and you just sort of give yourself grace with everything else, like you Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: can get you can get it done. But you you said it so eloquently, like it is choose your own adventure and it is how you wanna do it because there is no right or wrong way. And I think even in my journey, like the amount of fear that I carried in my pregnancy, like I wish I did it because I wish I mean I wish I had a crystal ball that told me everything was gonna be fine. But Evie Tavares: Right. Elena: But you can do it your way. There is no right way to do it. Evie Tavares: Right. Amazing. Okay. Well, Elena: Yeah. Evie Tavares: I've loved this chat and I would love for people to be able to find you, touch base with you. I think you mentioned a couple of things that you have to share on your website. So yeah, let people know the best place to find you and connect with you. Elena: Can I just say these questions were phenomenal? This was such a lovely chat. Like, I genuinely Evie Tavares: Yeah. thanks. Elena: like, I'm like, are you in the industry? Like you knew the questions perfectly. So I hope there was some value there because I found that there's a lot of hot takes. But if anyone's curious to to learn more, the website is eflegal.ca. so e like elephant, f like frangen, b like victor, ef v legal. And we have two free resources on there. So there's a free legal handbook that I poured my heart and soul into that truly is like a practical guide to a legally sound business about being proactive and protecting. and it walks through a series of different like business models and structures that you can start to like be Curious about to see like where your business wants to go. and I've laid out diagrams, so beautiful. I love that. So that's free on the website. We also have a free masterclass. We did like a 90-minute masterclass down at TD Towers in Toronto, and the whole thing was recorded. It was a live workshop, but I find you can just put it on as a podcast. And if you want to hear more of my voice, we really go into a lot of like legal training, which I think is the foundational education needed to really understand what you need. It as a new business owner in your first three years of business and what you can do from there. So both Evie Tavares: Mm. Elena: of those are completely for free and available on the website. Evie Tavares: Amazing. I'll put all those, I'll link everything in the show notes as well so you can check it out. And before I let you go, can we do a little bit of a rapid fire QA? Okay, perfect. Okay. Elena: Yeah. Do it. I'm ready. Evie Tavares: coffee or tea. Ooh, matcha. if your business had a theme song, what would it be? Elena: my is Rocky Balboa, you know, da da da Like get it done. Evie Tavares: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. what is one word that your clients would use to describe working with you? Elena: easy Evie Tavares: Mm, mm hmm. And last one, do you have a dream collaboration partnership or anything for twenty twenty six that you're calling in? Elena: Not rapid fire at all. This, Evie Tavares: Hehehe. Elena: this, I really, I really wanted to be on your podcast, so this is a dream for me. So yeah. Twenty twenty six achieved. Evie Tavares: Aw, thank you. Sweet. We'll check it off the box then. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Elena. Thank you for sharing all your value. And if you're listening, feel free to reach out to any of us or either of us and we will chat soon. Elena: You're the best, thank you. Evie Tavares: That's the tea for today. If something in this episode landed for you, I would love to hear about it. And if you're curious about working together, whether that's finding your own unfiltered tea and bringing it to the front of your marketing, or writing copy that really sounds like you, reach out. I'm always open for a conversation. And before you go, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you're feeling extra generous today, leave a review. It really helps this show to reach more people who need to hear it. Thank you so much for listening, honestly. And I will see you next time.