Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / Errol Radan's Jailhouse Confession | "Ted"

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Errol Radan's Jailhouse Confession | "Ted" · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Approache production.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: This episode discusses the abduction and murder of children, including
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: graphic details of the crimes and their investigation. It may
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: be distressing for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host Adam Shand.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: In October twenty twenty two, a convicted pedophile suspected of
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: abducting two girls in nineteen seventy three, died behind bars
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: without revealing anything about the cold case. At the time
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: of his death, Errol George Radden was a key suspect
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: in the disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe eleven and Kirsty Gordon,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: iour from South Australia's Adelaide Oval. On August twenty five,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, twelve.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Thousand people were watching the football a man walked up
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: with two children. No one stopped him.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Both girls went to the toilet at three forty five
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: pm that day and never return.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Their bodies have never been recovered.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: It remains one of Australia's most haunting unsolved cases. No
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: on be for Redan was imprisoned in Queensland for indecently
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: dealing with a girl under the age of fourteen and
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: carnal knowledge and was kept in custody under an indefinite
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: detention order. Gridan has been placed on an indefinite detention order,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: meaning he cannot be released without a successful High Court application.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: He received no visitors or phone calls in jail for
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: more than twenty years.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Did he take his secrets to the grave? Maybe not.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I was contacted this week by a former Queensland prison
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: officer who claimed to have befriended Radden in jail.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give him the pseudonym Ted to protect
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: his identity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Ted says Errol Radden confessed that he had abducted and
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: murdered Radcliffe and Gordon, and Ted has finally decided to
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: share that story. And thank you for doing it, Ted,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Adam, thank you for having me. You waited
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: a while to do this. Why good question? So at first,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: when I was originally released from jail, I went to
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the police with some information on some unrelated matters. It
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: was received very well by some police, and then I
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: had a conversation with another police officer in regards to
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: another matter, some information I'd received in prison, and I
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: was just disillusioned from this conversation with this police officer.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: He seemed more interested in myself my relationship with this
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: other prisoner, and I just lost sort of all hope
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and thought, maybe this is my sign to get on
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: with life. So I just pushed it aside. Yeah, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: you were a prison officer who ended up in jail,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So I guess that might have rung alarm bells for
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: police as well, that maybe you had some hidden agenda.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: You had a fall from grace and you were there
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: was some hidden agenda involved.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Could be? Could be?
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: He seemed a genuine individual, He was interested in my
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: story me as a person very surprised that someone like
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: myself would end up in prison, and he just didn't
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: take the information I was giving too serious. I was
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: a little disillusioned by that.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about Rodan. But I want to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: understand why you ended up in prison in the first place.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: So there was a team of hackers, offshore hackers working
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: in Singapore an Asian crime syndicate, and they essentially were
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: hacking bank accounts, and my role was essentially receiving money
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: into the bank account, and I was to transfer that
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: money off overseas, and I keep a percentage of that money.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Right, So you're like a money mule or something they told.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: It, correct, Yes, a money mule.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And how'd you get caught?
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: My partner was involved at the time as well. I
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: started doing it, she got involved as well. She was
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: initially caught by the bank. The bank suspected something was
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: going on. They passed information onto the federal police and
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: we had that knock on the door. Well, how was that?
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Very scary? Very scary, very daunting in a position that
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm not used to being in. Everything came
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: sort of falling down on us that.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Day, right, because you had no history of criminal activity,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: no history of deceit or dishonesty.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: That's correct, that's correct, never been in.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Trouble with the law at all, and.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Since that offense, had never been in trouble again.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: So how did you end up in the prison system
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: in the first place?
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: As an officer, it was something I've always been interested in.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: Once I left school, I studied, did some time with
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: the army. I was always going backwards and fords, Should
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I join the army, Should I be a correctional officer?
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Always had an interest in people, in particular criminals, why
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: they do what they do? That always interested me. So
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I went down the track of being a prison off
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I was young, thought I could change the world, help
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: people do good and get them on the right track.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Do you think that that experience changed you as well?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that made you more susceptible
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: to doing what you did?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: I don't think it changed me to do what I did.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: When I was arrested, the police asked me that did
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I make that leap due to a connection in the prison.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: It was completely unrelated. I was, however, disillusioned with the job.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: It wasn't what I expected. I was looking for a career. Yeah,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to help people. And it's a whole
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: lot of sitting there watching inmates like a glorified babysitter essentially.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Right, So you fourth and Grace, you get sentenced to
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: five months jail?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Which jail were you sent to?
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I was sent to Wolston Correctional Center here in Brisbane.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: It's a protection prison. Due to being a former prison officer,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I had to go into protection And.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: What was that like? What was the atmosphere?
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: It was interesting. I remember the conversation when I first
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: got sent to the prison. The prison officer took me
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: off to a side room and he talked to me.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: He said, you're gonna get hit. Are you going to
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: get things thrown at you? It's going to be horrible.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: But no, I never had any incidences with any inmates.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Prison for me was essentially like being back in school.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: It all came down to personality. Obviously. If you go
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: into prison and you're big mouthing, if you think you're
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: the big guy, you're going to bring attention to yourself.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: So I just went in. I was never gonna lie
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: about who I was. I thought that would be stupid
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: because it was on the news, and I was just
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: going to be truthful. If people were going to ask
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: was I a form officer, I was going to be
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: open about that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I know in Victoria they call it going from the
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: blue to the green. Yes, and it's a dangerous journey exactly.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And you found yourself having to be put in a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: protection unit.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. So within the Detection prison there was
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: a special unit called S seven, and that was essentially
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: high profile prisoners. A few years ago we had doctor
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Jane Patel, a doctor who performed a legal surgeries. There
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: was also a terrorist I believe someone accused of being
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: a terrorist was placed in there. You had politicians, you
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: had police officers. There was about four police officers in there,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: and there was two other prison officers in there as well, and.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: There was Errol Rdam. What do you rememberbout him when
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: you first saw him?
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Errol, he was essentially the elephant in the room. He
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: was this guy who sat by himself. He didn't mix,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: didn't talk to anyone, didn't engage in any conversation. My
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: memory of him initially was this old man, gentleman who
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: sat on the seat in front of the TV all
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: day long by himself, didn't move until we were locked
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: away at nighttime.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And he wouldn't interact with anybody.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, he wouldn't. He'd sit there by himself.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: And that's what got my curiosity stoked with him. I
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: was curious, who is this guy? And the reply from
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: other inmates was, don't talk to him. He's a bad guy.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: A prolific pedophile, as they would.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Have known exactly exactly. So obviously there was a lot
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: of pedophiles in the unit, some serious pedophiles that had
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: done horrible things, and even those individuals wouldn't interact with
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: the type of person or a Radan was.
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  Speaker 2: Really I would have thought they would have stuck together
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: birds of a feather, as you say, you know.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's very interesting. I did a lot
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: of conversating with some of these pedophiles in their sex offenders.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I've always been a curious person. I want to know, like,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: why did you do that? Obviously you couldn't have those
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: conversations with everyone, but there are a couple that I
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: was able to sit down and go why why did
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: you do that? And they gave me some answers that
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: they felt made sense to them. Obviously not to people
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: like ourselves, but yeah, no, it's interesting. There's Errol Radan
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  Speaker 3: is a type of sex offender which is just completely
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: on a different level to your general sex offender that
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: we see in the media all the time.
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  Speaker 2: You've obviously got the gift of rapport ted because you
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: were able to talk to these guys and a lot
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: of people wouldn't want to talk to them, but you
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: filled your time with that, and I guess you're probably
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: getting a bit of a reputation as someone who can
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: listen without judgment and spend time with these guys.
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  Speaker 3: Correct. I mean, obviously a lot of the stuff these
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: people came to me with. Inside, I was boiling that
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: you need to be composed and if it made my
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: time easier. I had a lot of time on my hands.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: I just wanted my time to go smoothly. So I
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: was more than happy to be an here. People would
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: come to you with help with applications. They knew I
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: was a former prison officer, so they would ask, how
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: do I feel that swarm out? Can you give me
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: advice on the parole board, etc.
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  Speaker 2: But Radan's off by himself. He's a tough nut to
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: crack exactly. But you decide that you're going to talk
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to him. Were you aware at that time that he
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: was a suspect in the nineteen seventy three abduction of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Kirsty Gordon and Joan Ratcliffe.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about the Adelaide Oval abduction the girls.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: The only case in regard to Adelaide that I'd heard
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: of at the time would have been the Beaumont Kids,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: which you see on TV in the media every now
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: and then.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: So you start talking to him, how did the conversation progress?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a guy that doesn't need company,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want it. He's got lots of secrets. How
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: did you go about cracking the facade?
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: I basically asked him if he knew how to play chess.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: They had chess boards out on these benches that the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: prisoners sat on, and I approached him asking if he
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: knew how to play chess, which he said he did,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: and I asked if he could show me how to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: play chess. And that's where went from there.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, and over how long did this relationship develop?
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: We would have converse for about three months until he
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: was moved into another area of the prison because.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: He was under as I said in the link, he
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: was under this indefinite custody order and I think he'd
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: gone to the High Court to get it overturned and lost.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So he was now facing the rest of his life
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: in prison. What year is this, by the way, it
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: would have.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Been two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Right, so he had another fourteen years of life left
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: in jail. And what do you say about his conditions
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: in there? What was the general tenor of the conversation.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: He was someone who wasn't phased. I don't know if
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: he had just accepted the predicament that he was in.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he was an old school, hardened criminal,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: he'd done a lot of time in prison, a career criminal.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: It's very rare to find career criminals in prison these days.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: He was definitely one of them. So he was just
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: sort of accepting of the situation.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: He was in.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: He wasn't a complainer. He didn't really complain about prison
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: politics or get mixed up in rumors and things like that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: He was just very matter of fact.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: This is a difficult question, but did you find yourself
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: enjoying his company at all?
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, in a way, because it makes time go quicker.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: There are a couple other inmates I got to know
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: very well, people that I wouldn't associate with on the outside.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: But all I was concerned with is making my time
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: go quick and making it be uneventful.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And he had unlimited time in there, definitely, so for him,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I guess he could pass some time with a pleasant
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: person who wasn't you weren't asking him about what his
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: offenses were.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: I presume no, not initially. That's something you don't do
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: at some prisoner will offer it up to you. I
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: think he liked my company. Being a lot younger, I
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: don't know if he looked at me as like a
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: sun figure. He was interested in my offenses because he
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: had read the paper, saw the news story on TV,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: so he was interested in that. I guess it was
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: a crime that he knew nothing about and was just
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: sort of a little bit amazed that you could do
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: that sort of thing. So he was interested in my
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: story about why was I a prison office, of why
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: would I do that? But yeah, he was definitely a
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: pleasant old.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Man to me.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Yet you could see there was a very dark side
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to him, which became obvious later. You shared details of
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: why you were there, I presume that opens the gate
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: for you to ask why he was there.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Correct, So I just asked general questions, how long have
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you been prison before? Obviously at the time, I didn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: know when he was sentenced the type of crimes he'd done.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I assumed they were sexual. Being in the unit he
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: was in. Some people in the units when they said
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: keep away from him, he's a killer, so I thought
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: maybe he was a killer. So yeah, I didn't really
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: prod I just allowed him to speak.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: He was certainly a convicted pedophile, but he'd never been
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: convicted of any murders. I guess it leads me to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: think that he might have had conversations with other or
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: was reputed to have killed victims.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Definitely, And that's the vibe I got from the other prisoners,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: the other sax offenders who didn't associate with him. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: think they felt this guy isn't a child lover in
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: their terms, this guy is a child destroyer. He's not
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: one of us.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: There is a difference, isn't there.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I know it's uncomfortable for listeners, but I mean there
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: are pedophiles literally is I love children, but there are
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: also child killers and we saw that phenomenon a couple
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: of times in South Australia with the Bone My Children.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: The aim was most probably not sexual, but more to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: satisfy a sadistic pleasure about killing children, and that seems
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: to have been the fate of those poor girls, Christy
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Gordon and John Ratcliff.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: He disappeared from Adelaide.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Oval and so you start to wind around to what
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: he did. Can you remember the day and the setting
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: and why he opened up to you.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, it was leading up to Christmas where there was
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: just a it was just a nice relaxing everyone's a
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: little bit happier leading into Christmas time because there's families coming.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Some inmates don't see families for quite some time, they
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: might have to travel in a state. So everyone was
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit more joyous and relaxed. Not that that
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: really affected ravand he's in his own world, but certainly
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: sort of prompted me to, you know, prompt him. Moore
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: sort of stoke him a bit with some harder questions
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: and what happened next And I asked him how long
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: you've been in jail, for which he replied for a
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: long time. He would always say to me, you need
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to make sure you don't get messed up with bad people,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: sort of like a doting dad sort of, you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: don't go hang out with the bad kids. It'll rub
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: off on you. He always tried to push that onto me.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: And one day we were sitting there and he just
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: basically said to me, do you know about the girls
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: at the Adelaide Oval? And I said no. I said,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: is this down in Adelaide? And he said yes. And
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: I said, the only crime I know that I have
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: some knowledge of would be the Beaumont kids. And when
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: I said that, he sort of smirked and sort of
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: nodded his heads and he goes, well, I did the
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: girls at the.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Oval shocking moment.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a little bit stunned, because where do
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: you go from there. That's not a normal conversation you'd
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: have with someone.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And you are shocked. But I guess you're also naturally
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: more curious. You didn't know about this offense in the
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: first place. No, so did you fall up in any
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: questions with him?
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: I was interested, definitely interested, but not knowing much about
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: the Adelaide Oval inductions at the time. I didn't have
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: much to ask. I wanted to know more, but you
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: also have to be careful. Prisoners are extremely paranoid, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: if you're sitting there taking notes and questioning, they start
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: to wonder what are you doing that. I reassured Errol
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: that I had a release date, I didn't have to
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: apply for parole, so I it was in a situation
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: where I'm an inmate trying to get information to get
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: out of jail early.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Right, And so of course you learn later on that
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: these two girls are Jaranne Radcliffe he was eleven, and
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Kurcy Gordon, who was four. Did he talk about the
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: individuals at all or any other information like that?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: He did He's said he didn't do. I know he
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: didn't do anything with the older girl. With Joanne, he
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: said she was trouble, but he did. With the smaller girl.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: He sexually assaulted her, yes, but.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: He didn't do anything with the older girl. I don't
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: know why. He just said she was trouble.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: So you're trying to retain your poker face here as
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: he's just told you that he's had sex with a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: four year old and probably murdered an eleven year old
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and disposed of both of them.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Correct prisoners in there that say things like that, the
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: ones that do, like in Arrol's case, you just have
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: to sit there and put your poke face on, like
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: you said, and pretend it doesn't affect you.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: And how did it affect you?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes prisoners will someone like you who's not
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: a hardened criminal or anything. They will try to shock
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: them with revelations like this. I've heard of other confessions
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: and there's always a bit of doubt about the motive
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: behind the confession.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely. I remember at the time, I went back
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: to the Soul that night and I just thought about
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: my son. My son was two and a half at
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: the time, so I just kept thinking of him, and
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: it was about three nights later in my soul, I
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: sort of broke a bit of a nighttime thinking of
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: it and got really emotional, and I sort of put
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: it away until now.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, because he made a very shocking graphic addition to
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: this information.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Ted, which is not his real name, told me graphic
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: information about what Errol Radan says he did to these
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: two girls. It's graphic and appalling, and we feel there's
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: nothing to be gained from giving the description of what
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Ted allegers was told to him.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's this guy is an absolute even to conceive
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of that and to tell someone that is a monstrous
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: thing to say, let alone.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Do exactly, how do you even come up with something
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: like that? That just doesn't even answer your head at
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: something a normal person does not think about. And I
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: can still see his face and when he said it,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: it was so matter of fact, like asking would you
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: like a cup of tea? It was scary.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Did that deter you from asking further questions?
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: It put a holt to that conversation and we went
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: back to just normal conversation.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I was just but you kept associating with him for
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: some time after that correct.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't want him thinking something was up. If
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: I was to cease, he would know that I was
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: offended by that and could be a threat. So yeah,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I continued the charade of everything's okay, or let's play chess,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: let's play cribbage.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Now, did you believe him?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, you obviously dealt with enough people in prison
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: to know the types of personalities and how they can
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: act out.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Did you believe him?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: I could never say one hundred percent because I wasn't
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: with him on the day at the oval, but I
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: would say ninety nine percent. There was no reason for
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: him to lie. As we said. He was in prison
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: at the Queen's pleasure. He was not going anywhere. He
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: had nothing to lose. He liked me, He knew I
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: was being released after five months. I couldn't get any
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: benefit out of knowing that information. The way he said it,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I believed him one hundred ninety nine percent.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, there's certainly some logic to all that he's
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: never coming out of jail anyway. But it's remarkable how
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: these people hang on to these dark secrets. Because he
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: was interviewed subsequent to your conversation with him, and he
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: wouldn't give up anything, He wouldn't say anything.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: How do you feel now the fact that he's gone
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to his grave.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to say this to you, but he's gone
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: to his grave, and you waited until after he was
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: dead to talk about this.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: It is tough that there's resolution for the case and
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: the family haven't got answers. I feel though that if
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: I had gone to the police at the time, maybe
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: I would have been looked down on as you're just
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: a criminal yourself. Why should we believe you. You're a
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: bad guy too. That I wouldn't be believed. It was
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: just something really horrific. I just didn't know what to
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: do with. I would have eventually told police back then
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: just sat. One interaction that I had with another police
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: officer disillusioned me and I just took that this is
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: my sign to put this in the past and get
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: on with your life.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And that's true.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And the point you make about prisoners not being believed
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: is very true. I've been through this with Lucille Butterworth
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: in Tasmania, who was murdered by Jeffrey Charles Hunt back
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine, and he confessed numerous times in
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: jail and when there was finally an inquest, those prisoners
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: were called and they weren't believed. And I've subsequently found
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: other prison and who he also can this guy like
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: to confess? This is a jail house phenomenon, that's for sure,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And people do fear not being believed, and they hang
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: on to things exactly the way you did for fear
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: of not being believed.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, there is a lot of information in prisons.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: There is somewhat of a code where prisoners will open
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: up to others and that's expected to be kept in house.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I remember being a prison officer at the time thinking
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: we're the ones that own this unit. We run the unit,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: but the reality is the inmates actually own the unit.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: There's a lot going on that the prison officers don't
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: know about. It was a real big guy opener seeing
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: some things, hearing prisoners and prisoners showing me this is
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: our secrets, this is all the stuff you missed when
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: you're an officer doing your searchers. They're very open to me,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: and yeah, there's a lot of information there. There definitely
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: are inmates that would lie.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I had heard.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Stories of prisoners doing long, long time, many years over
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: false evidence given by prisoners, So that was another thing
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: that was always hanging overhead. You never never give false
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: information out as a prisoner.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: It can come back on you. Now.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Also, the timing of this conversation comes after the discovery
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: of a bone in South Australia, which private investigators believe
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: maybe from Kirsty or Joanne.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it is human.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: That's not been officially confirmed yet, but that was a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: trigger for you to talk about this now.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Definitely.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I was laying in bed one night, just throlling Facebook,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: as a lot of people do, and up came a
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: newspaper report saying that the testing had in fact came
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: back and it had been determined that it wasn't a
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: human bone, and mentioned the Adelaide oval and I pricked
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: my interest and then I just went down a rabbit hole.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Every night, it's just become somewhat of a little bit
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: of an obsessionting over my head. And that's when I
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: reached out to tell my story, hoping it could be
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: put away.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, Now, I always asked this question when I get
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: people come to me out of the blue as you did,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Why did you choose me?
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: I just heard of you, I've seen you, your stuff
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: on TV the investigators. You're very prominent. You come across
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: as a trusting individual, very likable, and someone that would
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: listen to my story.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I'm flattered by that. I appreciate that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: if it's not fully true. But one thing, when you
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: got out of prison, you might have seen the identic
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: picture of the man who was supposed to have taken
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Joann and Kirsty. It's a fairly rudimentary sketch of a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: gaunt looking man, thin face, sharp features, with a hat on.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I know it's very difficult from that picture to be definitive,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: but do you think it looked like him?
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Yes? So when I had my interactions with Errol, he
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: would have in sixty nine, seventy years of age. He
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: definitely had that slender figure, the sort of shallow finish
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: face with the big ears. I've got family members with
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: big ears, so that sort of stuck out to me definitely.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: And when he sat in his seat, in the seat
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: and you approached him from behind, very slatched over. I
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: don't know if that had come to him in older
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: life or if he just naturally holds that position that. Yeah,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: when I see that identic at picture, I can see
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Errol there.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm trying to get a photograph of him
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: that they actually very did. There is one in existence,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I believe, which I'm trying to get hold of, which
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I will forward to you and we'll see whether that
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: also triggers any memories for you at all. But so,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: how was your parting with him? He was moved from
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: the unit, was he? That's correct. So within the prison
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: you'll have a residential area, so as the prisoners get
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: older and if they're well behaved, you can get moved
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: into a residential unit, which is small housing, a little
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: bit more freedom. It's just like little hearts, essentially, little
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: units of about four inmates and they can mingle with
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: their own TV. Yeah, he was moved off there.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And you moved out not long after that, permanently. Correct.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, How was your reintegration back into society after this
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: five months?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: It was very tough. Everything I had ever done in
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: my employment history was government related jobs, jobs that required
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: criminal history checks. I could no longer do that because
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: this offense would show up on my record. I remember
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: at the time, I even applied to be a limousine driver,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: a random job that I saw advertise on the Internet,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: and I couldn't even do that. You needed to drive
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: his authorization. I applied for it, it got rejected. So
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: I did a lot of I moved into a logistics
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: company and I did that essentially for ten years until
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: my conviction became a spent conviction where it's not shown
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: on your criminal record, and then I went back into
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: a government job.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Right, And how do you reflect on that time in
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: your life now?
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm still disappointed in myself. A lot of my
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: social circle don't know about my past. I study at
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: the moment at university. No one would know. No one
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: would suspect it. I think they'd be quite shocked. Only
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: my family and my partner know of that time.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Ched.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I know we're using a pseudonym, but I do appreciate
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: you coming forward and sharing this information. I'm going to
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: run it past other people as well, who are closer
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: to the case than I am and see how it tallies.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: There are very few suspects for the Adelaide Oval case
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: at least and certainly not ones that have confessed. So
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: your information is very important and I'll see what I
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: can do with it and maybe add some more to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: this podcast.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But thank you so much for sharing it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for providing me a platform share
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: my story.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks Adam, absolutely fantastic, Thank you so much.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: So that's Ted there.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Former prison officer finds himself in jail, be friends Errol Radan,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: who is the leading suspect in the nineteen seventy three
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: abduction of Kirsty Gordon and Joanne Ratcliffe. Now, if you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: have information about this case, please get in touch. I
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: think obviously most people are dead, the girls are gone,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: most of the suspects are dead, but.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: The family still remain.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And always information has a value, So you can always
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: call crime stobbers, one hunt of Triple three, Triple zero,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: or if you don't trust the police, you can do
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: what Ted's done and get in touch with me. Adam Shanner,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: writer at gmail dot com. But above all, do not
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: take this information to your grave. There are many reasons
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: why people do hold information for many years. I've been
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: in this situation numerous times, so it doesn't affect the
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: veracity of it. You need to understand the context of it.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: But people do hold these secrets for a long time,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: maybe till a parent dies or something happens in their life.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's time to unburden themselves as ten has done.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Don't wait so long. That's my advice. This has been
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Adam Shaffer, Real Crime, Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening
• 30:28
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• 30:31
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• 30:34
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• 30:37
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