Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1180 - Do Helpful Husbands Get Lucky? The Research Says...

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#1180 - Do Helpful Husbands Get Lucky? The Research Says... · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Starting today's podcast with a slightly saucy question, the men
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: who help out with the cognitive load and divide the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: household labor nice and equitably in the home get how
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: do we say it luckier? We'll be discussing that in
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: our preview of our Saturday interview with Professor Leah Rappana,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: who is a sociology professor at the University of Melbourne
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: and who studies cognitive load and how it works in households.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Are men pulling their weight? Are women doing too much?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast with
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  Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie Coulson.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: So I've always felt a little bit off when it
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: comes to these conversations around cognitive load, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Or sharing the hour household labor is divided.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because as a couple, our job is to
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: work as a team. If I was playing netball, I'm
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: not supposed to be on a fence and defense in
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  Speaker 2: any one given movement, right. Sure, I have my lane,
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  Speaker 2: and I keep to my lane. And as long as
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I keep to my lane and everyone else in my
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  Speaker 2: team keeps to their lane, the objective of getting the
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  Speaker 2: ball from one end of the court to the other
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  Speaker 2: eventually happens.
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  Speaker 1: Something that stood out to me in my interview with
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Professor Ropartner. I can't wait for this interview on Saturday.
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  Speaker 1: It's such a great conversation. Something that really stood out
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  Speaker 1: to me was she describes how you're right. It's not
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  Speaker 1: meant to be transactional, and sometimes these conversations can turn
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: into a scorecard or a balance sheet. Are you doing
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  Speaker 1: your fair share? Why am I doing so much? Having
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  Speaker 1: said that, there are some men who don't pull their
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  Speaker 1: weight and some women who don't as well, but I
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  Speaker 1: hear mainly from women. He just comes home and sits
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: on the computer and games or looks at Facebook reals,
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  Speaker 1: while I do everything, the kids, the house, the cooking,
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  Speaker 1: the laundry, the whole lot. So I think we've got
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to acknowledge that that is problematic, but in healthy, well
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  Speaker 1: functioning relationships. What she hoglighted was that there's a difference
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  Speaker 1: between daily tasks and episodic tasks, and it was a
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  Speaker 1: distinction that I've never heard before.
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  Speaker 3: With the mental load, you could have both partners carrying
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  Speaker 3: both things right. The father and the family could be
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  Speaker 3: thinking about, Okay, that dishwasher doesn't look well as breaking down,
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  Speaker 3: it needs to be repaired, and the mother can be
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  Speaker 3: doing the same work. Right, both people can be monitoring
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  Speaker 3: the same thing because it's internal, it's your mental load,
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  Speaker 3: and we're tracking it. And so this was one of
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  Speaker 3: the things that we did find. Right, that fathers do
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  Speaker 3: do more of those episotic tasks. They're much more likely
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  Speaker 3: to say they're primarily responsible. But it's not an even split.
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  Speaker 3: It's not like the fathers do it and the mothers
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  Speaker 3: drop it. The mothers do it too. And you can
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  Speaker 3: say the same thing when we look at you know,
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  Speaker 3: the childcare and stuff like that. You know, father's picked
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: up pieces of this, pieces of the childcare, pieces of
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  Speaker 3: the meal preparation. But the mental load is this really
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  Speaker 3: different type of work that both people can be doing simultaneously.
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  Speaker 3: It's invisible, it's boundaryless, it's never ending, and it's a
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  Speaker 3: really different and distinct tape.
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  Speaker 2: I think that she's really highlighted clearly that the cognitive
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  Speaker 2: load that we're each experiencing carries a similar level of weight.
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  Speaker 2: Now again in a relationship where there's a level of equality, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking about healthy functioning relationships here, but.
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  Speaker 2: You're thinking about the same things I'm thinking about, even
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  Speaker 2: if you're not doing them right.
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  Speaker 1: Because I'm sitting in my office writing a book, and
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  Speaker 1: can I tell you the cognitive load of writing a
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  Speaker 1: book is substantial. Carrying it feels like I've got five
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: grand piano stacked on top of me and I'm trying
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  Speaker 1: to walk from the front door of the living room
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  Speaker 1: carrying the pianos. It's a heavy load. But while I'm
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: writing the book, every now and again, I pause and think, ah, gee, dinner.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I wonder if we've got the right groceries. I wonder
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  Speaker 1: if Kylie needs some help with it. I'd really like
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  Speaker 1: to go in there and chop some vegetables or clean
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  Speaker 1: up the kitchen. So you've got to clean bench space.
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  Speaker 1: But I've got to carry this weight of these of
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  Speaker 1: this book, the metaphorical five pianos on my back. So
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  Speaker 1: there's this duplication where we're both thinking about it. The
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  Speaker 1: cognitive load is there for each of us. It's weighty,
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  Speaker 1: it's heavy, and as you said, I'm writing the book,
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  Speaker 1: but you feel like you're carrying the cognitive load of
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the book. You're not thinking about the book and its
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  Speaker 1: contents so much. But you're thinking Justin's busy. He's doing
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  Speaker 1: this and it's completely absorbing his life, which means that
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  Speaker 1: I don't get access to him and the resource that
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  Speaker 1: he would normally be for me. So I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 1: the book all the time because it's taking him away
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  Speaker 1: from the other areas that he could help. Is that
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  Speaker 1: where you're.
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  Speaker 2: Going, well kind of, But also I'm concerned about all
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  Speaker 2: of the other things that you need to do that
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  Speaker 2: are then weighing on you because you can't do them
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  Speaker 2: because you're so absorbed in that. I think, while ever
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: we are creating a scorecard in our relationships about who's
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  Speaker 2: doing more or who's thinking about things more, we've forgotten
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  Speaker 2: the fact that we're part of the same team.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I would love to play. It turned into quite a
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  Speaker 1: big conversation. I raised that with Professor Rapanna. I said,
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  Speaker 1: what is the deal here? Like, why why are we
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  Speaker 1: keeping score? Why is this transactional? I don't think that
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  Speaker 1: it should be. She agreed, and we had this fascinating conversation.
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  Speaker 1: Just can't fit into our preview episode today, but on Saturday,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you're here. Such a great answer to that very thing.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: One last quick point before we go to the break. Recently,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: as I was taking a break from writing the book
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  Speaker 1: because I needed some headspace, I should have gone for
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  Speaker 1: a walk and gotten some green rey into my eyes.
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  Speaker 1: But I opened up a social media platform and watched
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  Speaker 1: some short videos. But there was an interview with a
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  Speaker 1: man who was asked about the challenges that men face mentally,
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  Speaker 1: and he broke down as he said, people just don't
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  Speaker 1: understand the weight that men carry. The good men carry,
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  Speaker 1: men who are trying to contribute and provide for their
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  Speaker 1: families and trying to pay off mortgages and do a
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  Speaker 1: good job for their boss and look after their clients
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  Speaker 1: or their colleagues, their customers, and you describe that weight.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't want to turn this into a poor
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  Speaker 1: men thing, but I want to highlight it because also
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: often the conversations around equality in the home and cognitive
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  Speaker 1: load and division of labor in the home, they very
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  Speaker 1: much say men aren't doing enough.
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  Speaker 2: So here's the conversation, though, how many men will actually
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: share that load, will actually come home and talk about
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  Speaker 2: the weight of them.
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  Speaker 1: That's why that's why this guy broke down. He was like,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: we don't tell anyone, You.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Don't tell any carry and therefore women are at home
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: carrying this load, and because your load is so heavy,
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  Speaker 2: you can't hear their cries for the you know, to
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  Speaker 2: be understood and to be helped in carrying the load
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  Speaker 2: there carrying. But you're carrying such a huge load and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you're not asking for help either. The idea that we
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: would carry our loads individually is overwhelming.
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  Speaker 1: I love how you said that.
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  Speaker 2: But yet when we come together, even though each of
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  Speaker 2: us are carrying a load that we're just almost not
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  Speaker 2: capable of.
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  Speaker 1: Carrying, shoulders are sagging.
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  Speaker 2: If we would come together as partners on the same
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  Speaker 2: team and share that load, all of a sudden, the
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  Speaker 2: load hasn't shifted, The load has not changed in any way,
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  Speaker 2: shape or form. It is still as heavy as it was,
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  Speaker 2: but now we're shouldering it together. How powerful is that
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  Speaker 2: in a relationship, if we're able to shoulder together and
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  Speaker 2: carry that load. I know she talked about the fact
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  Speaker 2: that we're duplicating in our worry, in our in the
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  Speaker 2: heaviness of the load at times, But if we're shouldering
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  Speaker 2: it together, then it's actually not a duplication. It's an
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  Speaker 2: acknowledgment that I see you, and I'm concerned for you,
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  Speaker 2: and how can.
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  Speaker 1: I help compassion in relationships after the break? What happens
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  Speaker 1: when men specifically take on a little bit more of
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  Speaker 1: that cognitive load and make things more equal at home? Okay, Kylie?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Professor Lee Ripana from the Sociology Department at the University
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of Melbourne. We're previewing my big conversation with her on Saturday.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: This was one of the most fascinating interviews that I've done.
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  Speaker 1: I was a little bit nervous. I tend to with
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  Speaker 1: my background in psychology, I tend to sort of look
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  Speaker 1: at sociology and go, oh, it's a bit of a
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  Speaker 1: funny one, and it's never something that sat really well
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  Speaker 1: with me, and this is one of those topics that
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  Speaker 1: always kind of annoys me. We talk about a lot,
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  Speaker 1: but as we've discussed in the first part of the pod,
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  Speaker 1: it often feels transactional and it feels like it's very
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  Speaker 1: female focused and ignores the stuff that a man is carrying.
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  Speaker 1: So I asked the question that it comes up every time,
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  Speaker 1: not every time, but quite often when we talk about
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  Speaker 1: this topic or when there's news reports, media reports about
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  Speaker 1: the topic. Division of labor when men do their share
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  Speaker 1: and then some do. They get luckier.
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  Speaker 2: They get it all.
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  Speaker 3: Let me tell you something, they get everything. Oh yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I'll tell you across and the research, like I've done
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: across the research. They get better sleep. Right like, if
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  Speaker 3: you live in a more equitable, gender equal society. Let
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: me tell you the things you get. You get more
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  Speaker 3: better sleep or high quality sleep. You get better health,
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  Speaker 3: You're less riskier decisions. They're less likely to die. The
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: sex question, it's a little bit murky on that one.
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  Speaker 3: But they have more sustained relationships, They have more life satisfaction.
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  Speaker 3: Their partners are more satisfied.
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  Speaker 2: Social media is full of reels of women who suggest
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  Speaker 2: that if they see their husband taking out the trash,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: or their husband changing their babies nappy, or their husband,
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  Speaker 2: you know, vacuuming the floor doing some domestic labor, they
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  Speaker 2: find them more attractive.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what your algorithms pumping out to you.
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  Speaker 1: I've never seen any of those reels. Really, really, the
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  Speaker 1: algorithm knows you something about you, something about you missus
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: happy families.
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  Speaker 2: But I think that it's true you're.
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  Speaker 1: Seeing you find me very appealing when I'm up to
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  Speaker 1: my elbows in dishwater. Is that what you're saying. I'm
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: standing at the sink doing the benches in the kitchen.
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  Speaker 2: Do you know, I don't actually think it's that I
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: find you more attractive in that moment. It's that you
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  Speaker 2: alleviate some of the cognitive load that I'm carrying and
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  Speaker 2: as a result, give me space to remember that you
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  Speaker 2: do find me attractive, that I find you attractive. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I actually think that that's what it is.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: It's not about the task.
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  Speaker 2: It's about the fact that you thought about me and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: thought about a way that you could help.
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  Speaker 1: Well. We will replay the entire interview on set. It's
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a really delightful interview. I hope that you have joined
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: me for the full length conversation with Professor Lea Rapartner
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  Speaker 1: talking about dividing labor in the home, cognitive load, all
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: The take home message there's no I in team. Let's
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: work together.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: The full interview replays on Saturday morning on the Happy
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Families podcast, which is produced by Justin Ruwant from Bridge Media.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: For more information and more resources to make your family happier,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com dot au.