Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 095 - AI and the Future of Photography: A Discussion of its Uses, Advancements, and Ethics

Transcript

095 - AI and the Future of Photography: A Discussion of its Uses, Advancements, and Ethics · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

• 0:01
  Casey Fatchett: Hey there, folks. This is Casey, host of
• 0:02
  the nerdy photographer podcast. Just a heads up. While this
• 0:06
  episode deals with AI and AI generative art and AI used in
• 0:12
  editing software for photography. This was recorded a
• 0:15
  little while ago, and since then, there's just been, like,
• 0:18
  huge, you know, stories coming out like there's the new version
• 0:22
  of mid journey has come out where it's creating super
• 0:25
  photorealistic images, and the hands and limbs and things are
• 0:29
  looking more real. Adobe has announced Firefly. There it's in
• 0:34
  beta their new AI generative art app. And you know, Levi's just
• 0:39
  announced yesterday, as I'm getting ready to record this,
• 0:43
  that they are going to be using AI generated models to increase
• 0:49
  diversity in their photo campaigns. So a lot is happening
• 0:53
  this, this, this subject is just evolving every, every day and
• 0:58
  but I think that the topics that we cover in this episode are
• 1:01
  evergreen. They are going to be something that we're always
• 1:04
  going to be talking about when it comes to artificial
• 1:07
  intelligence and photography. So that being said, I hope you
• 1:10
  enjoy this episode.
• 1:16
  So what's the answer? Very funny, but I'm sure you know
• 1:22
  that the parameters of my query make that an invalid answer. Oh,
• 1:26
  hey, welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
• 1:29
  host, Casey Fatchett. If you've never listened to the podcast
• 1:32
  before, in addition to sharing entertaining and informative
• 1:35
  photography and business related content, I also go on missions
• 1:38
  with the crew of the starship Fibonacci. While you're here, be
• 1:41
  sure to subscribe to the podcast. You don't want to miss
• 1:43
  out on future adventures. Right now, I'm having a conversation
• 1:46
  with an artificial intelligence named JCn. Hey, whatever floats
• 1:54
  your code, bro. And on this episode of the nerdy
• 1:57
  photographer podcast, Jared Potier from the photo friends.
• 2:01
  Podcast is back, and we are discussing AI and its use in the
• 2:04
  photography industry, from services that can be used for
• 2:07
  culling and editing to how AI is already integrated into some
• 2:10
  photo editing software and much more. Stick around for that
• 2:13
  conversation after the break. Have you rethought your answer?
• 2:17
  JCn, way 42 Yeah, I'm not sure how to interpret that as the
• 2:26
  best recipe for guacamole.
• 2:32
  Hey, photographers, are you tired of using the same stale
• 2:35
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• 2:38
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• 2:42
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• 2:45
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• 2:47
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• 3:03
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• 3:05
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• 3:11
  Using, let's be real prompts will not only help you create
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• 3:20
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  photography business. So start using, let's be real, prompts
• 3:30
  from the nerdy photographer today, and elevate your
• 3:33
  photography to the next level. Go to nerdy photographer.com and
• 3:36
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• 3:36
  get started creating authentic, engaging images today.
• 3:45
  Welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I am your
• 3:48
  host, Casey Fatchett, and I'm here today with our photo
• 3:53
  friend, the host of the photo friends podcast, Jared Poirier,
• 3:57
  Jared Poirier: amazing, great, great pronunciation on there.
• 4:01
  Very, very proper. Even better, even better. Casey, your name is
• 4:07
  really easy to say, but I could put some French spin on it as
• 4:11
  well. Casey, I don't know,
• 4:13
  Casey Fatchett: the people always want to add either an E
• 4:16
  or an i to the end of my last name. So it's either facetti, I
• 4:20
  think it's fishy.
• 4:22
  Jared Poirier: Sounds like a nice, like a shaved meat you'd
• 4:26
  put on a pizza.
• 4:27
  Casey Fatchett: Yes, it sounds like a, you know, some sort of
• 4:28
  soprasata, or Fatchett with some Fatchett may be a cheese. It
• 4:33
  could be a cheese. You're really making me hungry. I can't eat
• 4:37
  cheese anymore. Oh, no. Unfortunately, I found out,
• 4:40
  since the last time we talked, found out that I'm horribly
• 4:42
  lactose intolerant, which apparently has been going on for
• 4:46
  decades, and I didn't that doesn't
• 4:47
  Jared Poirier: mean you can't eat cheese. It just means you're
• 4:49
  gonna
• 4:49
  Casey Fatchett: stop shouldn't eat cheese. Before we get into
• 4:54
  our main discussion, we are going to do our dice breaker for
• 4:57
  the episode.
• 4:59
  Jared Poirier: Oh, nice. Sonic. Excited for that.
• 5:03
  Casey Fatchett: It's a seven, which means, let's hear your
• 5:08
  most entertaining or fun photoshoot that you
• 5:15
  Jared Poirier: the most entertaining ever shit. I could
• 5:19
  probably do a few different ones here, but one one that I had a
• 5:22
  lot of fun on, one recent one, I actually had the opportunity to
• 5:27
  shoot magazine cover for like, a Canadian magazine here that does
• 5:31
  a lot of, like, food and beverage stuff, and I'm still
• 5:36
  close friends with the guy Joe Friday. I met him on that photo
• 5:40
  shoot, and we became close friends. I really like the
• 5:43
  concept. Like, he came up with a very artsy concept for the photo
• 5:47
  shoot where he was all dressed like a cowboy, but, like, very
• 5:49
  proper. All the surroundings was, like, very proper, but he
• 5:52
  was just eating a burger, and he had like, a girl come over and,
• 5:55
  like, pour His scotch and, like, wipe his lip and stuff like
• 5:59
  that. So it was a whole it was a whole thing, man. It was a very,
• 6:02
  like, artsy and creative kind of idea that he had. And he's black
• 6:07
  as well, like, and he's from the states, like, I feel like I've
• 6:12
  heard the name or something like that, and, yeah, so he was kind
• 6:15
  of, like the idea was, like subverting the concept of, like,
• 6:19
  a Southern gentleman or whatever, kind of, like,
• 6:21
  reincorporating it, I suppose, whatever. Anyways, I thought it
• 6:24
  was a cool and, like, artsy concept that he had, and really
• 6:27
  fun shoot, man, and still, still hang out with the guy. We still
• 6:30
  do work together and get beers together and stuff like that. So
• 6:33
  that's cool, man, I'll go with that one. Yeah.
• 6:35
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, and it's a cover shoot, it's always like,
• 6:37
  you know, combining things that you find, like you're finding
• 6:40
  all the sorts of, you know, the things that you do, the creative
• 6:45
  aspect of it, plus it's also, you know, like, this exposure of
• 6:48
  a way, like, yeah, it's gonna be on the cover print. It's in
• 6:52
  print anymore.
• 6:56
  Jared Poirier: It's at least a flex, right? You can say that
• 6:58
  I've shot magazine covers.
• 6:59
  Casey Fatchett: Man, there's, that's a discussion they follow
• 7:03
  Rob Hall at all. But in one of our episodes that we did, we
• 7:06
  talked about, like, the tropes of the photography industry. One
• 7:09
  was like, you know, Instagram BIOS or profile like, thing
• 7:14
  where people are like, I've been published and blah, blah, blah.
• 7:17
  It's like, you know, like the fact that you can it pay to be
• 7:21
  published in things has kind of brought down some of the
• 7:26
  credulity of that. So it's like, yeah, saying I'm published in
• 7:29
  this where it was actually published, and I didn't pay to
• 7:32
  be, you know, you don't get, you don't pay to be the cover shot
• 7:36
  of, yeah, usually. So our conversation today is about
• 7:42
  artificial intelligence and AI editing and various other
• 7:50
  aspects of artificial intelligence in photography, and
• 7:53
  we had talked a little bit about this, and you said me like, I
• 7:56
  don't really use that. But then you wrote me back, like, oh,
• 7:59
  wait, I have been actually finding elements of AI in other
• 8:05
  things. And one of the things I mentioned is, like, you know,
• 8:08
  this stuff has just sort of been incorporated into Adobe products
• 8:11
  without you noticing it.
• 8:13
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, yeah. It's not something that I really went
• 8:16
  and sought out and was like, Oh, this new, like, these AI tools,
• 8:21
  I better download them and integrate them into my workflow.
• 8:24
  It's more like, I use these Adobe things, Premier and
• 8:28
  Lightroom Photoshop, right? And in order to, I guess, try to
• 8:32
  make the user experience a little bit better, or maybe, you
• 8:35
  know, stay ahead of the competition, or whatever,
• 8:37
  they've started integrating these things. And, yeah, like
• 8:40
  you said it's just been, like, kind of seamlessly integrated to
• 8:43
  where I haven't even noticed, and I do think this is an
• 8:45
  amazing topic, man. Like, let me just give kudos to you. Like, I
• 8:50
  think it's, it's pretty cutting edge, and, you know, like an
• 8:54
  important thing to discuss on a photography podcast. So thank
• 8:56
  you for inviting me, no problem.
• 8:58
  Casey Fatchett: And you're always welcome the Yeah. I mean,
• 9:00
  I thought that it's just like the prevalence of, there's, I
• 9:03
  think the artwork part of it has become more in our faces, yeah,
• 9:09
  recently, but yeah, like these little things in, like, sort of
• 9:12
  in the background, like you're saying, like, it's been
• 9:15
  incorporated seamlessly into Adobe editing stuff that you
• 9:18
  just didn't realize that that was Actually AI, but that's
• 9:21
  what, I can't remember. What they refer to their robot that
• 9:25
  runs. They run things behind the scenes, but they come up with
• 9:28
  these projects, and they have been for a while that I've found
• 9:31
  very interesting. And I'm like, Oh, this is they don't there's
• 9:34
  only a few things they have, like their neural network
• 9:37
  filters, which is, like, specifically, AI run, like, you
• 9:40
  have to be connected to the internet, and it has to go
• 9:43
  through to like them. There's that's specifically AI run, but
• 9:48
  all these other things they've developed, like content aware
• 9:50
  fill and things like that. But there was one that was that they
• 9:54
  showed it Photoshop world, or whatever, the thing is, Expo
• 9:58
  that they do. I. That, that I'm when is it going to happen? Was
• 10:03
  this thing called Moving Pictures, and it was like they
• 10:07
  could give you a they would take a still photo, and it would turn
• 10:14
  it into a, like five second video. It would create a 3d map,
• 10:23
  and they do like a five second like panning video. I could pan
• 10:26
  up, or I could Pan Pan up and down, or side to side and
• 10:30
  looking at like landscapes of like shots with it was
• 10:36
  incredible. Like, I would have thought it was a drone shot,
• 10:40
  like you'd have these photos and just be like, you'd think it was
• 10:44
  video, but then I was like, when is that coming? Like that they
• 10:47
  showed it, like, five years ago at photo Expo, or whatever it
• 10:51
  was Photoshop world, and then it hasn't, like, shown up yet. But
• 10:55
  it's like, there's things that, like, take a little while, or
• 10:57
  they may have just realized it takes way too much processing
• 11:00
  power for it to be practical for everybody. But I was like,
• 11:03
  that's amazing. That would be, like, fantastic for your reels
• 11:08
  or whatever. Just like you can just take your static still shot
• 11:13
  and turn it into, you know, a little video, like a panning
• 11:16
  video,
• 11:17
  Jared Poirier: yeah, anything to spend less time making reels?
• 11:19
  Man, yes.
• 11:21
  Casey Fatchett: Anything, anything to do less reels, like,
• 11:23
  less time devoted to that. But, yeah, there's also, like, the
• 11:28
  thing is, like, I also use a few different editing softwares, not
• 11:33
  regularly, but like, as part of you know this thing, I sort of
• 11:37
  keep on the cusp of other programs and like, on one.
• 11:41
  Software has, like, started a new thing with they have like,
• 11:44
  AI filters, like, specifically, this is like, you can apply
• 11:48
  these different AI filters to your photos or editing. But they
• 11:54
  also have like, AI retouching, yeah, which you can you control,
• 12:01
  like, the parameters of it. But then it just, like, looks at the
• 12:04
  picture and it's like, okay, this is what I'm going to do.
• 12:06
  I'm going to do my thing more so and, like, there's another
• 12:11
  editing suite called Luminar. They've got, like, all sorts of
• 12:17
  AI editing, I think their new Neo software thing came out last
• 12:22
  year, has like, all sorts of, like, landscape AIS, it'll
• 12:27
  remove telephone wires or, you know, like, from photos, you
• 12:33
  know, all sorts of like, different, like, types of things
• 12:36
  you just click on. I want to remove this, and I want to like
• 12:39
  this in my photo, and it just analyzes the picture and, like,
• 12:41
  edits it all together, like, by itself, which is a little scary.
• 12:49
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, I got to tell you, though it is cool on
• 12:51
  my phone, like with the Google Pixel. I took a photo of my dog
• 12:57
  running in the snow, right? And I had, actually, what do you
• 13:01
  call that? Pulling a Game of Thrones regularly. Starbucks cup
• 13:06
  in the shot fully did that, you know. And then back in the day,
• 13:09
  I would have had to pull that into Photoshop, grab the clone
• 13:14
  tool, and clone that out. I can just do that shit on my phone.
• 13:17
  Man, I just like touched it with my finger. Starbucks cup was
• 13:20
  gone. It's a bit scary, but at the same time, it is cool. And
• 13:23
  you can do like the sky replacement and stuff like that
• 13:26
  as well. Maybe not on your phone, but
• 13:28
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, you can in some in some apps. It's not the
• 13:31
  quality. It looks good in the phone. Yeah, it wouldn't look
• 13:35
  good in print. But like, either the way that we're there doing
• 13:37
  like that Adobe has just into Lightroom, I mean the select
• 13:42
  subject, or select sky or select background, so that you can make
• 13:48
  edits like is now just available in Lightroom. It has been around
• 13:52
  for like a year or so. Select Subject have been around for a
• 13:56
  few years, which I didn't realize was a possibility, but
• 14:00
  now in, like, the last couple of years, it has been because,
• 14:03
  again, artificial intelligence and how it's like, learned to
• 14:06
  identify subjects, is nuts, like in just in Lightroom, and being
• 14:13
  able to, like, go through for me and wedding photos be like, oh,
• 14:17
  I want to darken the background up a little bit. And when I,
• 14:19
  like, do this with a couple and just like, swap between the
• 14:22
  masks of the background or the sky and the people. It's like,
• 14:28
  with like that. It's just like, snap your fingers and it's done.
• 14:31
  It does not take, you know, it used to, like, know, when they
• 14:37
  had, like, a select subject, it would take, like, a minute for
• 14:41
  Photoshop to figure out what you're doing. Now, it's like
• 14:44
  five seconds maybe, and it's got them selected, and it's got a
• 14:48
  pretty good selection of the of the person, or whoever it is.
• 14:52
  It's like, that's gotten pretty crazy. I just don't you. In awe
• 15:00
  of that. And yes, it makes life easier. It is a little
• 15:02
  frightening in some ways, what you see, what can be done, like
• 15:06
  face swapping people, or we get into these sort of ethical
• 15:12
  questions of like deep fakes and like using AI to create, like
• 15:18
  deep fake technology. Or there's the AI audio editing like thing
• 15:24
  that can learn your voice and then recreate your voice with it
• 15:29
  has like, a certain amount of like listening to you speak,
• 15:33
  Jared Poirier: and you and I have been diligently creating
• 15:36
  reference
• 15:38
  Casey Fatchett: for that hours and hours and revenue, but James
• 15:41
  Earl Jones sold his voice to Disney. Right? They can just use
• 15:45
  like they they're using it to do Darth Vader for telling until
• 15:49
  the end of time, like they've got his voice.
• 15:51
  Jared Poirier: There's those ethical things like
• 15:54
  impersonation and stuff like that. But then there's also, and
• 15:57
  we'll get into it later when we talk about kind of these, like
• 16:00
  aI art apps and stuff like that, but the idea of, like, copyright
• 16:03
  and in, how are they sourcing the data sets and that? Yeah,
• 16:08
  we'll get really nerdy. We'll say data set,
• 16:11
  Casey Fatchett: you know, we'll get into that in just a minute.
• 16:13
  But I've got a couple other things I wanted to discuss that
• 16:15
  are for sure, that are more like, applicable, I think, to
• 16:19
  everyday work as a photographer. And the first one I start with
• 16:24
  is culling. Like, the thing that I think is the biggest they
• 16:28
  think time suck for a lot of photographers, is like, going
• 16:32
  through photos, especially like for weddings stuff like, you
• 16:35
  know, shoot like 4000 pictures, try to get it down to, you know,
• 16:38
  a deliverable amount. And not going to send people 4000
• 16:41
  photos, but there's a company called after shoot, and they,
• 16:47
  their tagline is, make photo culling made easy, and it just
• 16:53
  goes through and it selects, you know, the photos that it's going
• 16:56
  to pull out. And you know, you get to select like, what you get
• 17:02
  to see the selections that made. So if you don't want to like,
• 17:06
  delete that photo, you don't have to like, you get to see
• 17:09
  what it did afterwards. Like, you can review it. But it's
• 17:12
  like, this is $10 a month or $15 a month. If you it's 15 a month.
• 17:18
  If you do it monthly, American, $15 American, and $10 month
• 17:23
  American, if you pay for it by the year. But it goes through
• 17:27
  and it like, detects if, like, the people are out of focus,
• 17:31
  like, if it's like, severely under or overexposed duplicate
• 17:37
  photos, you can select, like, the key faces. Like, for
• 17:42
  example, if you were like, again, if it was a wedding and
• 17:44
  you're like, okay, my couple or my key faces, I want to, like,
• 17:49
  keep an eye on, like, they definitely need to be in focus.
• 17:52
  And so, like, if it finds that their photos, their their faces,
• 17:55
  are out of focus, it's, you know, tosses that picture. I
• 18:00
  don't know like, I don't know what your thoughts on this are.
• 18:03
  My thought on it is, I haven't tried it yet, and I'm really
• 18:06
  considering it is that for 10 bucks a month, how much time do
• 18:12
  I spend calling like he that is the like most time I spend on
• 18:20
  the shoot is going through the photos afterwards, especially
• 18:24
  for weddings, is going through afterwards. And like, trying to
• 18:26
  pick out photos,
• 18:28
  Jared Poirier: I would, I would also say it's one of the least
• 18:31
  like creatively stimulating activities, right? Like you do
• 18:36
  when I'm shooting, I feel, you know, like that kind of artist,
• 18:39
  part of my brain is very activated. And then when I'm
• 18:42
  going through, you know, and changing, like, my presets, and
• 18:46
  actually, you know, adjusting everything about the photo, and
• 18:50
  making such creative decisions, like, do I want to just make it
• 18:54
  kind of do, like a teal and orange thing, fuck it. I'll just
• 18:56
  make it black and white. You know, that's exciting.
• 19:00
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah, you're, you're more engaged at
• 19:02
  that point. Certainly, you know, like, you're, there's something
• 19:07
  creative going on. Yeah, you're doing that. But whereas the
• 19:10
  culling, you're just sort of like, and also like, this gives
• 19:12
  you the option, like, afterwards to, like, look over it and be
• 19:15
  like, okay, you know, I don't want to get rid of that photo. I
• 19:20
  want to keep that picture like I made the joke recently on
• 19:23
  Instagram with the meme. It was like, when we're suddenly
• 19:27
  starting to keep out of focus pictures, when blurry photos
• 19:32
  that like month or so, where blurry photos were all the rage.
• 19:36
  I don't know if that's still going on, but yeah, it was like,
• 19:40
  AI, culling is gonna, like, freak out, like, What? What? I
• 19:42
  don't know. I'm supposed to keep photos that are totally out of
• 19:45
  focus. Now, you're doing this on purpose.
• 19:50
  Jared Poirier: The next big thing is gonna be photos where
• 19:52
  everyone's eyes are closed.
• 19:54
  Casey Fatchett: Everybody close your eyes. It's bird box. It's
• 19:56
  the bird box photo the i. Yeah, but yeah, I just think, like,
• 20:01
  cost wise, if you're somebody who does a lot of shooting,
• 20:06
  like, and you find this, you can try it for free, but if you find
• 20:10
  that it works for you, yeah, then it's can save you a lot of
• 20:14
  time. See.
• 20:15
  Jared Poirier: What I would be interested in is, like, how it
• 20:17
  actually works into the workflow that I have now, like, for me,
• 20:21
  it's always a big ask to add another program in there, like I
• 20:25
  was saying, that's why I haven't really sought this stuff out in
• 20:28
  terms of, like, my actual workflow. It's the way that,
• 20:31
  like, AI tools have kind of gotten to me, is more through
• 20:35
  updating the things that I already use. Like, if Lightroom
• 20:38
  adds a frickin automatic culling I'm using that
• 20:43
  Casey Fatchett: says one click import into Lightroom.
• 20:47
  Jared Poirier: See, wow, maybe yeah,
• 20:50
  Casey Fatchett: and capture one so, yeah, that's why I'm like,
• 20:53
  I'm gonna carry this out.
• 20:54
  Jared Poirier: I barely get less than one click. Yeah,
• 20:57
  Casey Fatchett: it's it. All I gotta do is fish one button. All
• 21:00
  right, okay. And that kind of leans into the the other one. I
• 21:04
  mean, 10 bucks a month, or 15 bucks a month, like getting my
• 21:08
  time back and spending, like, I can spend money many more hours
• 21:12
  doing my reels or doing things that get me paid. You know, like
• 21:16
  they get me paid. I'm that I'm sacrificing at the most $15 a
• 21:21
  month. That's that's a serious consideration to make. The next
• 21:25
  one that I want to do is there are also AI editing editing
• 21:35
  there are AI editing softwares as well that will batch edit
• 21:39
  your photos. And one of them is Imogen. I am a g e n, I'm going
• 21:47
  to include links to all this stuff in the Episode Notes. But
• 21:51
  this, you know, like they claim, you know, they'll give you 1000
• 21:56
  free edits. And then it's like, depends on the size of the
• 22:02
  project, and it's like five cents per photo, with an extra
• 22:09
  cent for each for cropping and straightening. So you can get up
• 22:14
  like seven cents, unless you're like, doing like, I think, let's
• 22:17
  see, no, it's all five cents per photo. That's just to figure it
• 22:21
  out, like, what it's going to cost you, and apparently you
• 22:25
  need to send them like, for this one in particular, you need to
• 22:31
  send them a you think it's 1000 or 3000 edits that you've done,
• 22:37
  like Edited images, so that it can learn your style, which know
• 22:46
  what your thoughts I want to get your thoughts before I kind of
• 22:50
  go into like experiences that I've heard from people on this.
• 22:54
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, so you know, this one is a little bit
• 22:56
  less tempting for me personally, like you may have. You know, if
• 23:01
  listeners could hear my skeptical face, they would have
• 23:04
  heard it. Yeah, I'm I'm just so hesitant to to use something
• 23:12
  like that, even though it does say it's learning your style, I
• 23:16
  just feel like then it's really taking the art aspect out of it
• 23:20
  quite a bit. And then it's kind of becoming more of an assembly
• 23:24
  line, which, you know, there are certain shoots I guess you could
• 23:26
  do, like, if you are doing, let's just say shooting
• 23:30
  corporate parties right was, like the big thing that you did,
• 23:33
  like shooting corporate parties then, then maybe right? But even
• 23:37
  with something like wedding photography, I'd want to be
• 23:40
  touching it myself. I'd want to be like, the creator touches
• 23:44
  what's making this special. And I just feel like, for me
• 23:48
  personally, it would be kind of like, I don't know, I'm not
• 23:51
  going to say it'd be like, against my moral code as an
• 23:54
  artist or whatever. Like, that's saying a lot to say that, right?
• 23:57
  But I would just say, Yes, I'm very skeptical. And, you know,
• 24:01
  this is, like, a deeper conversation we can kind of talk
• 24:04
  about, but that that line is going to be different for
• 24:07
  everybody, right? Like, when has the line? Because I'll use a AI
• 24:11
  generated, like preset in Lightroom, where Lightroom just
• 24:15
  looks at the photo, and it's like, oh, what do you think
• 24:17
  about this? And I'm like, that's cool. Let me address the
• 24:19
  contrast. A couple of things change, the colors, boom, right?
• 24:23
  That for me, that doesn't violate my sense of what, what's
• 24:27
  okay, what's not, as as artist and a creator.
• 24:30
  Casey Fatchett: So you're still have your you're still involved
• 24:32
  in it, yeah, and you're in the creative aspect of it. I totally
• 24:36
  get that, and I enjoy. I agree with you. I think that from the
• 24:41
  stories that I've heard, experiences with this, I
• 24:43
  haven't, personally, I've seen like output, because I asked
• 24:48
  before I tried for myself, like I wanted to see what people said
• 24:54
  about it. And the problem is, if you have sort of like. Mixed
• 25:00
  lighting conditions, which especially happens at events.
• 25:03
  Yeah, you can end up with like colors that are way off because
• 25:09
  it just doesn't like. It doesn't know to edit it certain things
• 25:14
  like it could get it could kind of get the basic like look of
• 25:18
  your style if you have a particular like preset that you
• 25:22
  use, it kind of gets the sense of that. But then when it's
• 25:25
  like, applying it to, oh, there's like, some sort of color
• 25:29
  in the background, like in the lighting, even if it's not on
• 25:32
  the subjects themselves, like, but it's trying to adjust
• 25:35
  everything to look a certain way, and then the colors end up
• 25:39
  off. And maybe that's something that's gonna take longer for it
• 25:43
  to learn how to do. But it's like not at that, like, more
• 25:48
  than not, like, I had some, some people who came back and said,
• 25:51
  Oh, it works fine for me, but it depends on what they're
• 25:54
  shooting. And those people who are shooting, like, corporate
• 25:56
  headshots, where they have very, yes, they have very old
• 26:01
  controlled conditions. Can very controlled conditions. It's very
• 26:05
  basic. It's not like you're trying to be, like, super
• 26:09
  creative with them. Yeah, you want and you want a very sort
• 26:13
  of, like, standard lighting and everything. Every photo is kind
• 26:16
  of the same, like in like you're doing. That's the whole point is
• 26:19
  you want to do, like, the same sort of setup for everybody. And
• 26:23
  you're like, if you're editing, you just shoot like 200 people
• 26:28
  for headshots. And you're like, Okay, I gotta edit a bunch of
• 26:30
  these. All right, you know, once I get my final shot from each
• 26:36
  person, and then it cost me 10 bucks to edit 200 individual
• 26:40
  headshots, and Okay, we're done, and that's it. And the batch
• 26:45
  process those, I can see it as something there, as opposed to
• 26:50
  with a wedding, or if I'm delivering 1000 pictures and
• 26:55
  it's costing me 50 bucks, but it's like it's not, I'm gonna
• 26:59
  have to go back and adjust things after it's already edited
• 27:03
  because I'm not getting the colors that I want. And then
• 27:07
  it's, I don't think it's for me. It wouldn't be something that I
• 27:10
  would jump into. As far as, yeah,
• 27:14
  Jared Poirier: is that for the creative stuff like I'm thinking
• 27:17
  about, like I do concert photography as well, and
• 27:21
  sometimes when I'm editing those photos, like, I could not
• 27:23
  explain to you why, why it's done. When it's done, like, I
• 27:27
  look at it and I'm like, this feels right. This feels like how
• 27:30
  I felt at the concert, right?
• 27:33
  Casey Fatchett: And also you've got the light, like, light is
• 27:36
  such a, such a huge deal, like, especially at concerts where you
• 27:39
  get, like, different colored lights. And sometimes you're,
• 27:42
  like, shooting them, because there's, like, you know, the
• 27:44
  dust or whatever, like, you see, get the light beams, and you're
• 27:47
  trying, like, even though that, like, the colors aren't, quote,
• 27:50
  unquote, good for whatever, but it's like that you're going for
• 27:54
  the atmosphere. Yeah, of the of the shot, like, it's not some
• 28:00
  perfectly lit portrait.
• 28:02
  Jared Poirier: So yeah, and I also fear that, like, obviously,
• 28:05
  the worst case scenario is you use something like this, you
• 28:08
  send the photos to a client, and the client is like, Oh, I don't
• 28:11
  like these look like, not like your stuff, or these look edited
• 28:16
  by AI or something like that, right? You would, I definitely
• 28:19
  wouldn't want that to happen.
• 28:21
  Casey Fatchett: So, yeah, I tried one that was available
• 28:25
  online, and it was doing, like, for portraits, and it would go
• 28:28
  through your portraits and like, oh, it's gonna, we're gonna,
• 28:31
  it's gonna brighten the eyes a little bit, and it's gonna
• 28:33
  smooth the skin, whatever. And it was, the funny thing that I
• 28:36
  found was it made people's eyes bigger, like, just slightly
• 28:40
  larger. It's like, oh, it's gonna, you know, but because it
• 28:44
  somehow thought that that was preferred, like, people have,
• 28:49
  like, larger eyes.
• 28:51
  Jared Poirier: Well, that was your fault. You were using the
• 28:53
  anime. I was
• 28:55
  Casey Fatchett: using the big eyes, whatever
• 28:58
  Jared Poirier: that movie, they call that kawaii way, or
• 29:00
  whatever. There's a word for that.
• 29:01
  Casey Fatchett: Well, there was a woman who did those paintings.
• 29:05
  They did a movie about her with, I think it was Helen Bonham
• 29:08
  Carter called Big eyes, like she would like, and her husband took
• 29:11
  credit for them for a very long time. She just, like, drew these
• 29:16
  children and animals. They had, like, these, like, very spooky
• 29:19
  big eyes and people, like, I'm just drawn to them. They look
• 29:22
  weird. But she was just like, Oh, I just like that. I don't
• 29:27
  know. Maybe it is, maybe this is, like the anime thing, maybe
• 29:30
  whatever is, but
• 29:32
  Jared Poirier: that'll be the new trend. Everyone looks like a
• 29:33
  Furby for some Oh, man, no, see, you asked me how old I was. I'm
• 29:40
  old enough Furby understand what a Furby is.
• 29:43
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, what was that? The animated movie that
• 29:47
  was a few years ago, some of the against the machines, like all
• 29:52
  the machines rose up in or like, attacking humankind, and
• 29:56
  eventually Mitchell versus Mitchell's versus the machines.
• 29:59
  And, like, they. It into the mall and it's the giant Furby.
• 30:02
  And I was just like, oh, bring back nightmares from my youth.
• 30:10
  Yeah, I think that culling would be is a much more automated
• 30:17
  process that AI could be good at. I feel like editing, I think
• 30:22
  so. It's just we are all we're all individuals as
• 30:29
  photographers. And you know, we're not all going for the
• 30:32
  exact same thing. And even while I can, like there, there are too
• 30:36
  many variables in any one photograph, unless, like, I
• 30:42
  said, you're doing portraits, like group maybe for like, also
• 30:47
  like school portraits, yeah, like doing school pictures where
• 30:51
  bulk is just a whole other thing, like editing those photos
• 30:55
  totally get it, as opposed to having to, you know, spend all
• 31:00
  that time, or to pay somebody to do that, if you're just,
• 31:03
  especially if you're just getting into
• 31:05
  Jared Poirier: it, yeah, yeah. Even with the calling, I'd be so
• 31:07
  interested to see how it actually, like, which ones it
• 31:10
  actually picks. I think I will eventually try it, like,
• 31:12
  Casey Fatchett: I'm gonna do it on like, a, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
• 31:14
  go out and, like, do like, a test shoot, yeah, and try it.
• 31:19
  Because you can try it for I think, a month.
• 31:22
  Jared Poirier: Because, you know, even with, like, framing
• 31:24
  and stuff like that, or you know what you're saying, to
• 31:27
  straighten the horizon and all of these things, cropping and
• 31:30
  straightening, like, sometimes a photo is better because the
• 31:33
  angle or the composition is weird, right? And you just like
• 31:36
  that, and you go, Oh, again, it's more of that thing, of
• 31:38
  like, it's not technically right, but it feels right or
• 31:41
  whatever. Yeah, I don't know,
• 31:43
  Casey Fatchett: get it, yeah, it's a it's your artistic
• 31:47
  choice. And there's the thing that, you know I talk about,
• 31:49
  talk about, like, out of focus pictures before, and I got into
• 31:52
  a discussion with somebody about, like, intention, fair,
• 31:58
  yeah, it's intention and editing and then taking the pictures and
• 32:01
  just this whole thing of, I'm going to take out of focus
• 32:04
  pictures of people, because that's a trend, or whatever.
• 32:07
  Like, no, like, if you do something that's out of focus
• 32:09
  intentionally, like, there's a reason you want motion blur or
• 32:14
  something. Like, I have also chosen some photos that were
• 32:17
  just slightly out of focus from weddings, because I was just,
• 32:20
  like, the emotional content of this is far outweighs the
• 32:24
  technical perfection of it. Or there was, like, a shot I did of
• 32:29
  a couples dancing in the middle of the dance floor, and they're
• 32:32
  slightly blurred because there's a long exposure, but like, all
• 32:35
  the people around them are really blurred. I'm like, This
• 32:39
  is great. This is I this is what I was going for. Yeah, it's
• 32:42
  actually came out better than I had anticipated, yeah, but yeah,
• 32:46
  that's intentionally blurred. And I think that that'd be
• 32:48
  something you have to keep an eye out for. And, you know,
• 32:52
  automatic AI coloring. But yeah, I check it out and see how it,
• 32:56
  how it chooses, whatever. And I think that that's also just when
• 33:02
  it comes down to it, as far as the expense, it's not that much
• 33:06
  in the long run, as far as, like, how much time you could
• 33:09
  save yourself over the course of a year and get that back into
• 33:14
  either shooting more, doing your marketing, whatever it is, just
• 33:20
  getting more time, reclaiming more of your time in the long
• 33:24
  run.
• 33:25
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, totally. It's another option for a lot of
• 33:27
  things. And you know, you could just hire somebody to call your
• 33:32
  photos for you as well, but that can get very, very expensive,
• 33:35
  right? And maybe you don't agree with how they're calling it
• 33:37
  either. So, yeah, yeah.
• 33:38
  Casey Fatchett: And I think that also the, you know, I haven't,
• 33:40
  we haven't really been talking about it this much because it's
• 33:43
  more of a video related thing. But you see, like, these AI
• 33:46
  video editing stuff, like making matting, like putting masking
• 33:53
  your like things in your videos a lot easier. Like, that's a
• 33:56
  very, usually a very time consuming process, which I hope
• 34:01
  technical process, yeah, I think that, hopefully that will make
• 34:04
  it easier for filmmakers or video people to like do better
• 34:10
  things. And I think that that's a valid use of that technology.
• 34:16
  And on that note, we get into AI artwork cool, because there's a
• 34:25
  lot to be said about AI art and there's the big ones are like
• 34:30
  mid journey, stable diffusion, Dall e2 again, I'll include
• 34:36
  links to all This stuff in the Episode Notes. This stuff has
• 34:42
  just kind of gone crazy in the last year. There's, it's overrun
• 34:48
  your streams of whatever social media that lensa,
• 34:55
  Jared Poirier: yeah, yeah.
• 34:57
  Casey Fatchett: Was nuts there for a couple weeks. Everybody's
• 34:59
  like, I. Going to spend my $15 and then, like, tick tock
• 35:02
  basically came out with a like, it free is like, very similar to
• 35:07
  the lens of thing, but there's like, there's so much to be said
• 35:12
  about AI art, as far as, like, how does it learn and where is
• 35:19
  it learning all of this information from is it taking
• 35:23
  from other artists? Is one of the big questions. Like, there
• 35:26
  was a whole thing with mid journey, like three separate
• 35:32
  times in the last year, artists who died the next day, there
• 35:39
  were hundreds of 1000s of queries into the mid journey
• 35:43
  engine to create art in the style of that artist. Like
• 35:52
  they're like, Okay, are you? They're taking advantage of the
• 35:55
  fact this person is no longer alive to duplicate their work in
• 36:01
  some way.
• 36:03
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, that is, that's a tough one. Have you
• 36:05
  used any of these things, like, have you experimented with mid
• 36:08
  journey so, yeah, like, maybe talk about that. I guess, yeah.
• 36:11
  Casey Fatchett: It's, the thing is, like, it's surprisingly
• 36:17
  easy. Yeah, it to the learning curve is not steep to create
• 36:25
  things. And once you start to figure out that the more
• 36:29
  detailed your prompt is, yeah, yeah, the closer to what you're
• 36:35
  going for. And I see you can basically in Photoshop groups
• 36:39
  people who combine the two like they will take either. What I
• 36:43
  like to see is people taking content that is theirs, yes,
• 36:47
  taking a photo that is theirs, running it through, like mid
• 36:51
  journey or stable diffusion with a prompt, and then working on
• 36:57
  that with what it's created, and then doing other things with it,
• 37:00
  like painting in or doing stuff to it afterwards, that I find
• 37:05
  quite interesting and amazing what people can do. It's when
• 37:07
  you start seeing the very, very similar returns that people are
• 37:16
  getting. Like, there's there's one in the one of the I sent you
• 37:20
  like few links of like various artwork in there. One of them
• 37:24
  had a Dante's Inferno. I think it was like a painting, very
• 37:29
  much in the style of some fantasy artists that you see.
• 37:34
  And it's I saw, probably in the beginning of this use of AI art.
• 37:41
  In the last year, I saw hundreds of images that looked exactly
• 37:48
  like that, that style like. So you've got all these people
• 37:53
  putting in like specific prompts about things and getting very
• 37:58
  similar artwork back, which what's happening here, is it,
• 38:05
  you know, it's, it's leaning heavily on somebody, something
• 38:07
  that's learned Yeah, and thinks that people like, but also just
• 38:13
  the use of a prompt, like, in the style of
• 38:18
  Jared Poirier: that's yeah, That's dubious for sure, I've
• 38:21
  played around with one of these. It's called Dream by wombo. So
• 38:27
  the reason why I liked that one, I think, at the top, like, I got
• 38:29
  into the kind of had my whole arc with the AI art thing with,
• 38:34
  like, right, when it started to get popular, and then I got,
• 38:37
  like, super obsessed with it for like, a couple of weeks, and
• 38:40
  then I stopped caring about it almost entirely, until you
• 38:42
  brought me, brought me on the podcast. But with Dream like,
• 38:46
  yeah, you enter the prompts Right. Like you can say, I want
• 38:50
  panda bear eating ice cream, and he has claws, like Wolverine or
• 38:56
  whatever, and like, it'll it'll do that for you. And then you
• 38:59
  can put like, source image, like you were saying, right? So I
• 39:03
  would like, take a photo. One really cool one I did was, like,
• 39:06
  I took a photo of me and my dad, and then I said, uh, Batman and
• 39:11
  his dad and the Bat Cave. And it like, did me up like Batman, and
• 39:14
  did my dad up kind of like Batman. And I was like, that's
• 39:18
  interesting. That's really cool. It kind of gave me that, like, I
• 39:21
  don't know if you've ever done a lot of, like, actual drawing or
• 39:25
  painting or anything, like, have you done that type of stuff? Not
• 39:28
  good at that. Yeah, makes sense. That's why you got into the I've
• 39:32
  tried. It just doesn't work for me. No, that's fair. You got a
• 39:36
  very specific type of buzz from doing that type of stuff. Like,
• 39:39
  like, a buzz in your brain, like, kind of a high from
• 39:42
  creating art. I'm sure you get a similar thing when you're
• 39:44
  editing photos or shooting photos, that creative buzz. And
• 39:47
  I was getting that by playing with these apps, right? And I
• 39:51
  was kind of feeling like what I was creating. I even sometimes
• 39:54
  would like draw something with pastels, right? And then feed
• 39:58
  that in. And. Then take, like that stuff, put it in Photoshop,
• 40:02
  cut it all up, make collage, and then put it back into the AI and
• 40:05
  see what it does.
• 40:06
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, way more creative. Yeah, yeah. I think
• 40:10
  there's in my problems with this. One of the big ones is,
• 40:17
  where is it learning from? And they're like, lawsuits. I He
• 40:21
  would send me a link to lawsuit against stable diffusion. I had
• 40:24
  not been able to take a look at that before we recorded, but
• 40:27
  there's,
• 40:28
  Jared Poirier: there's a break that down, if you Sure. Yeah. Do
• 40:32
  you want to get into that now? Sure the lawsuit. Okay, cool.
• 40:35
  Yeah. So this video that that I sent you actually found this on
• 40:39
  YouTube a while ago, put it in the old watch later. Didn't
• 40:41
  really have reason to watch it until today. So thank you for
• 40:44
  for that corridor crew. It's called lawyer explains the
• 40:48
  stable diffusion lawsuit. So as you're saying with these like
• 40:52
  the data sets, the one that stability AI and I believe mid
• 40:56
  journey uses as well is the lie on 5b data set, which is
• 41:04
  basically just like 6 billion, nearly 6 billion copyrighted
• 41:09
  illustrations that are just taken from the internet, like,
• 41:12
  you know, what, whatever, Deviant Art and all these
• 41:16
  different Instagram all these different sites where people
• 41:18
  post their art, right, Without You know, the artists are have
• 41:22
  no say in this. So I've created some digital art. It's probably
• 41:25
  in these data sets, right? I've done some of my own original
• 41:28
  comics, and blah, blah, blah, very likely, like something that
• 41:31
  I've created, or even photos that you've taken could be
• 41:34
  considered part of these data sets, right? So that's, there's
• 41:37
  actually two lawsuits now that I know of, and this is an evolving
• 41:40
  thing. By the time this podcast comes out, there'll probably be
• 41:43
  more. One of them is a class action lawsuit in the District
• 41:47
  Court of California. So that would be like applying,
• 41:49
  obviously, like American copyright law. And the other
• 41:53
  one, Getty Images is suing them in the UK, specifically suing
• 41:57
  stability AI who makes stable, stable diffusion or whatever,
• 42:01
  yeah. So the whole thing will come down to, you know, this,
• 42:04
  like, Is it, is this actually transforming the art? Is this a
• 42:10
  new way of using like, is this something different than just
• 42:14
  Yeah, is it transformative? Or is it just, like, I guess, like,
• 42:18
  a derivative of the original art, yeah, and that's something
• 42:22
  to think about.
• 42:23
  Casey Fatchett: And I think there's also, there's also some,
• 42:25
  some questions, also with lensa, which was the app that a lot of
• 42:30
  people were using to get like, profile pics. Like AI created
• 42:34
  profile pics. Their data set included photos of medical, like
• 42:43
  medical photos of people, which is why the eyes in a lot of
• 42:48
  things didn't work really well, because they were dead eyes.
• 42:54
  Wow, there's there really other things that were included in
• 42:57
  their data set that were, like the ethical questions that you
• 43:01
  bring up outside of just, like, copyright right? Where should
• 43:04
  you be using this? Like, should this image be able? Should you
• 43:09
  be able to use this as part of your data set? And there were,
• 43:12
  there's a lot of, like, ethically gray areas, but like,
• 43:15
  what you're talking about there is, and why these lawsuits are
• 43:18
  going to exist, is like, yeah, I have a friend who's just so into
• 43:22
  mid journey, and he just creates, he'll create movies
• 43:25
  like, like stills from a movie like, a different like, he'll
• 43:30
  switch the time period in which she was shot and who directed
• 43:35
  it. Like, he'll be like, what if Christopher Nolan directed
• 43:40
  casino in the 1970s and then you'll see like it'll produce
• 43:45
  all of these different images, and you just like the the way
• 43:50
  that it. Like it. There's nothing specific or Star Wars. I
• 43:56
  think when you did with Star Wars, directed by Wes Anderson,
• 44:02
  and it's like, these, and it's, you're looking at, going, Oh,
• 44:05
  that's funny. And then you like, sort of like, Wait, where are
• 44:07
  they getting these faces from? One of the things is, if you're
• 44:10
  doing any of these apps and you're putting your image into
• 44:13
  it, that's probably they're getting your face. Your face is
• 44:16
  becoming part of the data set. I hate to break it to you, but a
• 44:21
  lot of these things, when you're talking about they're gonna
• 44:23
  steal your soul with your photo, like they're starting to do it
• 44:27
  in a way, they're still definitely stealing your
• 44:29
  appearance. You're using filters on Tiktok, like either they're
• 44:33
  taking your image and throwing it into these datasets, but it's
• 44:39
  this sort of like you're creating artwork in the style of
• 44:44
  somebody else. It's not just the like, you're just kind of like
• 44:49
  doing it the level the bar has been lowered so far for entry.
• 44:56
  Yeah, it kind of makes me think of Jurassic Park when. Jeff
• 45:00
  Goldblum is, like, you're standing on the shoulders of
• 45:02
  giants, and you didn't think. You only thought about, like,
• 45:08
  what you could do with it, and not should you do it? And
• 45:11
  there's this sort of this, like, Oh, we're just gonna, like, open
• 45:14
  this up and everybody can use this. So now there's just, like,
• 45:16
  everybody, like, I'm gonna create, you know, right? This
• 45:18
  art, like, where you see these artists, when you're talking
• 45:21
  about dv, the stuff that it just likes, stuff that it just like,
• 45:24
  stole from Deviant Art, basically, like I was seeing all
• 45:26
  these things. I'm like, Wait, I've seen this before. And I'm
• 45:28
  like, going back to like, DeviantArt, and going like, this
• 45:31
  is like, So and so style. This is, like, their those very
• 45:33
  electric, electric, like, Tron ish looking like sci fi images.
• 45:39
  And you're just like, oh, they just like, yanked this guy's
• 45:43
  style, right, and let people make their own stuff with it.
• 45:48
  Jared Poirier: And like, you could always do that. You could
• 45:50
  always look up some shit on DeviantArt and rip it off,
• 45:53
  right? Like I could, I could see a photo that you took, a nice
• 45:58
  wedding photo that I see on your Instagram, and then I'm shooting
• 46:01
  a wedding, and I'm like, Man, I'm gonna recreate that shit.
• 46:03
  Casey did. Anyone could always do that. It was always kind of,
• 46:09
  maybe, you know, artistically, in terms of your artistic
• 46:13
  integrity, maybe that was a wrong thing to do. But like
• 46:15
  you're saying now, the technology has made it so easy
• 46:18
  that I could rip off Casey a million times a day, and just
• 46:22
  enter little prompts, right? Yeah, in the style of, yeah,
• 46:25
  right.
• 46:25
  Casey Fatchett: And it's just like, you know, there's one
• 46:27
  thing to be said, like, Oh, I'm gonna learn how to do something
• 46:29
  similar to what this person did. I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna learn
• 46:33
  the skills, right, yeah, to make something like this. I'm gonna
• 46:37
  learn how to light this photo this way. Or I'm gonna learn the
• 46:39
  skills how to draw this. Like, now I don't have to be able to
• 46:42
  draw at all, no, like, I can just say, like, oh, I want to do
• 46:44
  this blah, blah, blah in the style of Dolly. And all of a
• 46:49
  sudden I've got, you know, my own little dolly paint. I'm
• 46:51
  like, Oh, I created a dolly painting. No, he didn't. The
• 46:53
  computer created the dolly painting. Like, by looking at
• 46:56
  Dolly's images, is, like, his artwork. And a lot of those
• 47:01
  things, like, a lot of that, like the this also makes the
• 47:03
  question things like the Metropolitan Museum of Arts,
• 47:06
  entire collection is in the public domain, okay? So it can
• 47:12
  go in there and, like, I'm sure it goes into there and be like,
• 47:16
  we're gonna learn all of our like, masters, like the, you
• 47:20
  know, the Dutch masters and all those things. And then you can
• 47:23
  be able to create artwork in the style of, you know, these
• 47:26
  people, and it's, but you've, yeah, lowered the bar for
• 47:31
  creation of quote, unquote artwork so far that there's,
• 47:36
  like, almost very little work involved. And the people are
• 47:41
  you've got, like, I said, I have. I know people who, like,
• 47:45
  just do this all the time, who are not artists.
• 47:49
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, I like how you took the that so you can
• 47:52
  break that up. You know, the term artwork, you just said,
• 47:55
  there's not very much work involved, right? Is there very
• 47:58
  much art involved, though? Right?
• 48:00
  Casey Fatchett: It's the art is on the other side where it's
• 48:03
  being taken from. It's the data set that it's being taken
• 48:05
  Jared Poirier: from, maybe, but I don't know. Like, you could
• 48:07
  make the argument like, this isn't necessarily what I
• 48:10
  believe, but you could make the argument that the you know, if
• 48:12
  it comes to, oh, what is art? Well, what about it's the the
• 48:17
  meaning, the the intention, right? The kind of conversation
• 48:21
  between the artist and the person who's seeing it. You
• 48:24
  could say that someone who is assembling, like aI art or
• 48:28
  creating those prompts, is an artist, because you could just
• 48:33
  as much as anybody else creating any type of image. You can put
• 48:36
  meaning into an image. You could say, oh, you know, my prompt is
• 48:40
  going to be, I want a picture of Colonel Sanders and Jesus, and
• 48:45
  they're in like a knife fight with a bunch of chickens all
• 48:48
  watching, cheering it on right and stupid, stupid example. But
• 48:52
  those are all symbols with meaning, and someone could look
• 48:56
  at that and say, Oh, well, this is a this piece of artwork is a
• 49:01
  criticism of capitalism or it's a comment on religion or animal
• 49:07
  rights, whatever the hell you want to say, right? That could
• 49:10
  be a piece of art that could provoke thought that could
• 49:13
  right? So, yeah,
• 49:14
  Casey Fatchett: but then you see, like I sent you that
• 49:16
  petapixel article, Victorian people who never existed so
• 49:21
  cool. They're so cool. It's really cool. And you're like,
• 49:23
  oh, man, this is amazing. Then you start to go, like, oh, wait,
• 49:28
  these people never existed. Like, there's a there's this.
• 49:31
  Start to think about, like, what, how could this be used
• 49:36
  against people? Like, in a sort of propaganda ish sort of way.
• 49:42
  Is another thing where I'm like, oh, man, this kind of like, you
• 49:45
  could get people going like, well, this is what happened,
• 49:47
  where there was the there's ones that that really boggled my
• 49:50
  mind. Run another one of the links that I sent you that was
• 49:53
  like, 1970s New York City, like film, grain, gritty, blah, blah,
• 49:59
  blah, dates. Time, whatever, and you're seeing these shoots, and
• 50:01
  I'm like, this looks real, like a historical Yeah? Photo, yeah.
• 50:08
  This is scary. This is like, this is really frightening. And
• 50:15
  that that worries me in a way, like, how are we going to be
• 50:21
  able to determine in the future. Because right now, one of the
• 50:23
  things that it really can't do very well, eyes and hands. Like,
• 50:26
  it doesn't do hands. They don't do hands real well.
• 50:28
  Jared Poirier: Like, if you will, end up with like, eight or
• 50:30
  nine fingers or lobster claws.
• 50:33
  Casey Fatchett: It's like everything everywhere, all at
• 50:35
  once, like hot dog fingers, photos. So that's, like, always
• 50:40
  the thing I look for first is I look for hands and eyes. It's
• 50:43
  like, starting to, they're starting to do eyes better, but
• 50:47
  they all the eyes tend to, like, have a weird look to them, dead
• 50:51
  eyes, like you said, yeah, yeah. And there was speaking of data
• 50:55
  sets there. I don't know if you're on tick tock at all, but
• 50:58
  there was a, there was one that was going around, like this,
• 51:00
  free one on, on Tiktok. And everybody was going, Oh, that's
• 51:06
  doesn't look it doesn't look anything like me. Like it
• 51:09
  doesn't look anything like me. And I was like, I did it a few
• 51:09
  times. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't look, why doesn't it
• 51:12
  look like me? What's wrong here? And figuring out, like, I have
• 51:16
  blue eyes, and none of them came out with blue eyes, and I was
• 51:19
  looking at the facial features, I'm like, Oh, this was done in
• 51:23
  like India, like the data set is very much South Asian darker
• 51:28
  complexions, because everybody looks a little darker. The hair
• 51:31
  is always dark. Everybody has brown eyes. And I was just like,
• 51:37
  Oh, yeah. White people are doing this and going, this looks
• 51:40
  nothing like me, because it doesn't look like white people,
• 51:44
  and you're not part of the data set for this. And so there was a
• 51:48
  whole question about like, oh, how does that make you feel to
• 51:51
  be left out? There's sort of a reverse thing here. But also it
• 51:54
  teaches you, like, where you are not welcome and you are not part
• 51:58
  of the norm. But also it shows you, it's very, you know,
• 52:03
  evidence of where is this coming from. It's like, where is the
• 52:08
  the source material that's being used? And if it doesn't like,
• 52:12
  you're you're not going to get the results that you, quote,
• 52:15
  unquote, want. Yeah, if you don't have the source material
• 52:18
  to work from that, that matches up?
• 52:21
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, there's always, like, evidence of
• 52:23
  whatever in whatever you create with these type of tools.
• 52:25
  There's evidence of that data set in it, right? Like, the
• 52:28
  original thing, yeah,
• 52:29
  Casey Fatchett: it's just sort of a, I don't know, like, I
• 52:32
  think, I think that what you were discussing about, like,
• 52:34
  people who I have a lot more respect, and I have seen a lot
• 52:38
  of this. There are a lot of people I know. There's the
• 52:42
  photographers I know who have taken like photos that they've
• 52:45
  shot, like portraits. And like, I'm going to use AI to like, use
• 52:50
  this to like, make this something different, make it a
• 52:53
  painting, or make it like whatever. And they're using
• 52:56
  their own images as the source material. And also, like, you
• 53:00
  know, like creating really interesting stuff, like using
• 53:02
  their own artwork, their original content, to create
• 53:07
  something new, or to use it to inspire what, what is my next
• 53:11
  thing going to be? Like, I kind of have some words rolling
• 53:15
  around in my head, and they're not using it commercially.
• 53:17
  They're not using whatever, like the AI, like when they're just,
• 53:21
  like when they're just, like, typing something in and, like, I
• 53:27
  want to do something blah, blah. Like, they want to look at
• 53:27
  something. They want to get a vision board, yeah, for
• 53:27
  something to create. And I think that that's, you know, that's a
• 53:31
  great way of doing stuff. When we get into the photo realistic,
• 53:35
  I think this is sort of the last part of this to cover for right
• 53:41
  now, when you get into is this going to put photographers out
• 53:45
  of work, like, when you look at the stock photography stuff that
• 53:50
  they're able to do with this now, like a year ago, I would
• 53:55
  have been like, there's going to be some like, if you're going to
• 53:58
  be able to tell, but there are like, images now where I'm just,
• 54:03
  and you can be super specific, like, one of the ones that I
• 54:07
  sent you was a turtle wearing a space helmet, whatever, and it
• 54:13
  looks real. It looks like, like somebody brought in, like an
• 54:19
  actual turtle, like, put this thing together, and I'm sure
• 54:22
  they spend some time on it, but it's like, when they can use
• 54:25
  these tools to create exactly the photo they want, and they
• 54:33
  don't have to pay anybody to do it, and It looks real, that is
• 54:40
  going to, you know, change things, I think, especially when
• 54:44
  it comes to as the as it gets better with people. And there
• 54:49
  are already 3d models of people, like aI models, yeah, that you
• 54:57
  can feed into some of these things and, like, get them to.
• 54:59
  Do, like, put them in certain positions and things like that.
• 55:02
  It's gonna change a lot of stuff. As far as stock
• 55:08
  photography, product photography, unfortunately,
• 55:13
  like, I think that's gonna and I've seen, like, I was initially
• 55:17
  skeptical of, like, what the output of this was going to be,
• 55:21
  but what's her name? Karen Cheng. She's real popular on
• 55:26
  Instagram. Just creates like, these crazy she's the one who
• 55:29
  like, Oh, I'm at the San Francisco I'm at the Golden Gate
• 55:31
  Bridge. And you can't use a drone here. How'd I make this
• 55:33
  drone shot? And she's, like, using a super Swiffers, yeah,
• 55:37
  like, like, it's really super long, like, pole or whatever.
• 55:40
  And then I was thinking on a fishing line, stuff like that.
• 55:44
  She comes up with these, like really, kind of ingenious ways
• 55:48
  of creating stuff without actually using what you would
• 55:53
  think to create it, getting a crane shot without a crane. But
• 55:58
  she worked on a cover, like a magazine cover they created. And
• 56:04
  they were like, Okay, we a magazine cover of an astronaut
• 56:08
  on an alien planet, you know, doing like, like a camera, what
• 56:12
  exactly the prompt was, but like, they work on it and, like,
• 56:16
  got it down. And I was like, when I saw the final image, I
• 56:18
  was just like, Holy shit, that looks like a photograph. And
• 56:26
  when you can do that without creating, like having to go do
• 56:30
  sets, getting models and props and whatever is, this becomes a
• 56:38
  much more thing. This is gonna budget is always a thing where
• 56:43
  they're like, Oh, we don't have to spend money on this. And if
• 56:47
  it looks real, and they can get away with, you know, having,
• 56:52
  like, you've got your, whoever your creative director is, and
• 56:58
  maybe a couple of computer artists who are able to, like,
• 57:03
  manage like this, and get it into a place where it works,
• 57:07
  yeah, I think that that becomes problematic for photographers in
• 57:11
  the future,
• 57:12
  Jared Poirier: for sure. I think that's the story with every
• 57:16
  like, every thing that evolves with technology, people are
• 57:20
  going to get put out of work, right? I mean, when cars gone
• 57:23
  invented that put a lot of horses out of work, or if you
• 57:26
  want to take that to, you know, all these horses, they're really
• 57:30
  upset about it, you want to take that to like art. A good example
• 57:35
  with like art itself, when, you know, CGI came out, like CGI
• 57:39
  animation, Toy Story and that shit that put a lot of hand
• 57:43
  drawn animators out of work as well. I don't know how you can
• 57:47
  say, Okay, well, this is where we're going to stop. Like we've
• 57:50
  technology. Like technology has progressed, we've used these
• 57:53
  tools to to tell our stories, you know, to convey information,
• 58:00
  to convey how we feel about the world, to relate to each other.
• 58:04
  We're going to stop here because this is too much technology.
• 58:07
  Like, I'm not comfortable with doing that, but I do get what
• 58:10
  you're saying. It will it's definitely going to put some
• 58:13
  people out of work. It's going
• 58:15
  Casey Fatchett: to change the landscape, for sure. I'm not
• 58:16
  saying it's I'm nothing. It's not going to happen. Or we
• 58:19
  should, like, we need to put the brakes on all this immediately.
• 58:22
  I think the ethical questions need to be asked, like, where's,
• 58:25
  where are we getting the data from? Like, that needs to be
• 58:28
  more transparent, yeah. And people need to be compensated if
• 58:32
  their artwork is being well, so commercially is like,
• 58:37
  Jared Poirier: what about this? Like, when we're talking about
• 58:39
  these, you know specifically, like the AI generation, the the
• 58:43
  tools where you're generating images and they're using a data
• 58:46
  set, well, what if the artist had to opt into that and then it
• 58:50
  got tracked? What stuff and they got paid? Yeah, that's a
• 58:53
  different conversation. Yeah.
• 58:54
  Casey Fatchett: I think that would be a useful conversation
• 58:57
  to have. I think that's definitely something that should
• 58:59
  be considered. Because you're like, looking at these, like I
• 59:02
  said, they were artists who had passed away, who had been quite
• 59:05
  popular, and now they're gone, and they're like, Oh, we're
• 59:09
  gonna, like, teach mid journey to create artwork in their
• 59:12
  style, like the next day. Like they're saying that, like, this
• 59:16
  is the developers. This is not like people out there in the
• 59:20
  world creating, like, hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of
• 59:23
  prompts, yeah, in a matter of an hour, like, the next day, like,
• 59:29
  this is, this was not queries from just users, like, there's
• 59:34
  there was just the amount of quick because they have to
• 59:36
  publish, I think, like, certain amount of like, how It's
• 59:40
  learning and like people were just, like going through that
• 59:43
  and like finding these queries like this, seems like you're
• 59:47
  teaching it to do, like, this person's art, because they just
• 59:50
  died, and you're looking to capitalize on the ability to
• 59:55
  recreate their artwork. That that I've got a problem with.
• 1:00:00
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's gonna be, like, a
• 1:00:02
  new, you know, there's gonna be new laws that'll have to come
• 1:00:05
  out to deal with this stuff, and just new, new, like norms, and
• 1:00:08
  new, I don't know, new, like, forms of, like, artistic
• 1:00:12
  morality or whatever, like, you wouldn't just blatantly rip off
• 1:00:16
  someone's photos, or you wouldn't blatantly rip off
• 1:00:19
  someone's art, and why would you do that be through, like, using
• 1:00:22
  a different tool, all of a sudden it's okay. Like, yeah,
• 1:00:25
  people need to, I don't know. We're gonna need to adjust,
• 1:00:27
  like, our thinking and stuff like that, as the technology
• 1:00:29
  changes, I suppose, right, yeah, it's
• 1:00:31
  Casey Fatchett: gonna be a real interesting conversation. Do you
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• 1:02:06
  Hey, now for my favorite part of the show, what's that? Say?
• 1:02:11
  Useless information. This is always death
• 1:02:17
  So Jared, if, if the sun exploded, it would take eight
• 1:02:22
  minutes for us to know that it happened.
• 1:02:25
  Jared Poirier: Yeah, okay, cool.
• 1:02:27
  Casey Fatchett: While we head around that while the shockwave
• 1:02:29
  itself wouldn't hit us that fast, it would take eight
• 1:02:31
  minutes for us to see it. Because of the speed of light,
• 1:02:36
  we wouldn't know that it happened for eight minutes. How
• 1:02:39
  does that make you feel?
• 1:02:42
  Jared Poirier: That makes me feel like I have a base level
• 1:02:45
  understanding of relativity, which makes me feel like a, like
• 1:02:49
  a real clever person.
• 1:02:53
  Casey Fatchett: I don't know. I sort of find those sort of
• 1:02:56
  topics, sort of putting us in our place, cosmically, like,
• 1:03:01
  Yeah, you're a wonderful thing. You're amazing to to be here,
• 1:03:06
  living and conscious and knowing what's going on. But we're also
• 1:03:10
  just tiny, tiny, little specks.
• 1:03:12
  Jared Poirier: But how many YouTube videos would come out in
• 1:03:14
  that time that the sun actually hasn't exploded? It's a
• 1:03:18
  government conspiracy these.
• 1:03:20
  Casey Fatchett: They'd be shorts. Yeah, they'd definitely
• 1:03:22
  be shorts.
• 1:03:23
  Jared Poirier: They'd be reels on Instagram
• 1:03:26
  Casey Fatchett: no longer than 15 seconds. Jared, thank you
• 1:03:30
  very much for coming on in. Where can people find you?
• 1:03:33
  Jared Poirier: Oh, I'm so glad that you asked if you guys like
• 1:03:38
  my opinions and my ideas and you want to hear me talk about
• 1:03:42
  photography for hours on end. I've got my own podcast, the
• 1:03:46
  photography friends podcast. It's great. We we have wonderful
• 1:03:51
  guests, even Casey has been on there before. So yeah, you guys
• 1:03:54
  can find his episode,
• 1:03:57
  Casey Fatchett: and they can find you on the Instagram ads.
• 1:04:00
  Jared Poirier: Well, of course, of course, they can find me on
• 1:04:02
  Instagram, reading reels, photo, underscore, friends, underscore,
• 1:04:07
  pod. I've got a, I've got a reel out right now where I'm actually
• 1:04:10
  doing a photography rap
• 1:04:12
  Casey Fatchett: is that yours? Did you do that? Where did you
• 1:04:15
  get the source?
• 1:04:17
  Jared Poirier: That's just me rapping, man, dude,
• 1:04:19
  Casey Fatchett: I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a I'm gonna use your
• 1:04:22
  audio. I'm gonna try to go and give you some viral, viral
• 1:04:25
  audio. I need to get it on tick tock. I think that's really the
• 1:04:29
  key. So, yeah. I mean, give me, like, definitely. Are you on
• 1:04:32
  tick tock, not yet. No, no, no. Okay. Well, give me the audio
• 1:04:34
  and we can get it on tick tock,
• 1:04:36
  Jared Poirier: all right, we'll make it happen. Yeah,
• 1:04:38
  Casey Fatchett: sounds good, man. Thanks for coming on, of
• 1:04:41
  course.
• 1:04:49
  Welcome back everybody. I hope you found this discussion on
• 1:04:52
  artificial intelligence and photography informative and
• 1:04:55
  thought provoking. Many thanks to Jared Poitier for coming on
• 1:04:58
  the show. Be sure to check the Episode notes for. Jared links
• 1:04:58
  and give a listen to the photo friends podcast. Also, like I
• 1:05:03
  said before, if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe
• 1:05:06
  to this show, the nerdy photographer podcast, and leave
• 1:05:08
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• 1:05:14
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  also follow along on social media at the nerdy photo on
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• 1:05:27
  of fun stuff always happening on the socials. You can also find
• 1:05:30
  other totally free ways to help support the podcast in the
• 1:05:34
  Episode Notes. JCn, I have to say first, I am very impressed
• 1:05:39
  with the fully functioning robotic arms and hands that you
• 1:05:42
  built for yourself since the opening and second, this is some
• 1:05:47
  of the best guacamole I've ever eaten. Yeah, trust me, I know
• 1:05:57
  that is a difficult search until next time, everybody stay safe
• 1:06:01
  and stay nerdy, beating
• 1:06:23
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