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The Morgan Stanley Exit That Built Asia Bankers Club with Kingston Lai Scoring a Strathmill 28 YO Whisky · Whisky Unfinished

0:00
SPEAKER_00: You were at Morgan's family for several years in the investment bank individual.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, money is too good, everything is comfortable, it was all great, but I made that move.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: It's because of life crisis.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: You had to change a career, change your car, or change your wife?
0:16
SPEAKER_02: What did you do?
0:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna introduce you to the first whiskey.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: So this is Havalong, Asia Records of today now.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: You got offices in four different countries across Asia and the Middle East.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I did some calculation.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: We only the business can last for a year.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: But that calculation was all wrong.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Let's park with 25 year olds.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: One casino in Macau is like uh 1 billion US dollars of net income.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: That's already more than um the whole Las Vegas trap male, 28 year old.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: When you move on, hopefully you survive.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: You'll be laughing at yourself why you were so worried about that.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: The first person I interviewed, I was holding a broom and she came in for the interview.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: She was early, right?
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Thought I was like mopping, you know.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: This is a lockloman inchman, 10-year-old.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: And why did you try unpasteurized camels and up?
1:07
SPEAKER_02: What was happening in that wall.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Firstly, thank you so much for watching this.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: If you could like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskeys to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Kingston.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Whiskey Unfinished, where the whiskey's never finished, and neither is the conversation.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: So amazingly, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast because we've known each other for I think coming on like 14 years, right?
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Like 2012, 2013, we met.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: When you first started Asia Bankers Club, Asia Bankers Club today, now 110,000 members.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: You've got offices in four different countries across Asia and the Middle East.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: So congrats.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna dive obviously more into all about Asia Bankers Club a little bit later.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: But just excited to have you here and to talk about you know your journey.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: So today's focus really, you know, we want to dive into a little bit about alternative investments.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: That's really what the focus of Asia Bankers Club has has been or started with.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Bit of real estate, you're getting into longevity.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there's a lot to unpack there, but I think that's really what we'll focus on.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: To start though, let's start with the whiskey.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna introduce you to the first whiskey.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: So this is Kavalan.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh Kavalan is maybe you've heard of Kavalan, so it's a very famous distillery in Taiwan.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: So this is a Taiwanese whiskey.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: I picked up this bottle when I was at Kavalan uh a few years ago.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember exactly when, but they only produce this particular bottle for sale at the distillery itself.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: So you can't buy this in retail stores or anything like that.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: You have to go to the distillery, and a lot of distilleries do that where they just give you a chance to, you know, a little reward for coming that way to all that way to get it to get a whiskey.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: So this one's at 57% alcohol.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: So I would strongly suggest a couple of drops of water if you want to.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, but this is a rum cask finish.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: So even if we just nose it, for me, I get a lot of like pineapple, kind of orange, tropical fruits, like that kind of style.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: I know you're a little bit under the weather today, so maybe not not a lot coming through.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: I think you might you wouldn't get drunk just by sniffing it.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: Just by sniffing it, yeah.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: It is pretty strong.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I'll take it a voice.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Let me try this.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: I'll try it straight and then yeah, that's pretty, pretty harsh on the finish, and try to add a couple more drops of water and see see how that holds up.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, Kavalan basically came out of you know, really nowhere.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: Um 20 odds or so years ago once it got established, and is huge now around the world.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, really, really large distillery.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: I think it's over 100 million by liters that they produce.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: It's a massive, massive distillery.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: They export kind of all over the world.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: Not this whiskey, but other whiskeys they make won kind of several awards.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's just great to see you know, whiskey now is really expanding throughout the world.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: What started as only Scotland and Japan, now you get whiskey distilleries, and Thailand makes whiskey, Australia makes whiskey.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I think Vietnam has a distillery.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: So whiskey is kind of uh all over uh Asia now.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: So for me, we rate all our whiskeys here.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: So uh the rating goes from zero to ten, uh sorry, one to ten.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: And so what is this?
4:36
SPEAKER_02: One is utter shite, as they say in Scotland, which is terrible.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Ten is freedom.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the best whiskey ever.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: For me, I think this is a really nice whiskey.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Um is a 10?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, I haven't scored a 10 yet.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: So far, the highest I've ever given is a nine, which was already pretty amazing.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: I think this is a solid whiskey.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: So for me, I'm gonna give this a probably a solid 6.5.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: I think this is just like a good average kind of drinking whiskey.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: But let's get everyone in the audience kind of caught up on your story a bit.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: We met when you were first setting up Asia Bankers Club.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: You were at Morgan Stanley for several several years in the investment banking division, right?
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: It was a big leap to leave what I assume was a steady position and things were going well to start Asia Bankers Club.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember kind of what that thought process was like?
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Like take us back to that moment when you decided, all right, I'm leaving my you know uh reliable job with a nice huge company to start something completely new.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: What tell us about that experience?
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, um, you know, I I don't think I can ever forget that really.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, that experience and what really triggered uh my moved out of uh you know a stable career job, like you say.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, money is too good, you know, everything is comfortable.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: You're working in a nice office, you know.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I was an uh at ICC, you know, it was all great, but I made that move.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh it was really funny how that came about.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, there's the um the official and unofficial version of the.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: We're only interested in the unofficial for sure.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Now that you've made that clear, we 100% won the unofficial.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: What was going through your mind at the time?
6:18
SPEAKER_00: No, the the the the well, I'll tell you, I gotta tell you the official, the official reason, right?
6:21
SPEAKER_00: The official reason is because of midlife crisis.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: All right.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: I was like 34, I think, or 32, I can't remember.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it was midlife.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: So you either what do you do, you either change a career, change your car, or change your wife.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: So I changed.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Which ones did you do?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Looking back, I changed all three.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: That's what I was like, I I actually knew the answer to that question.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: So that was a bit of a setup.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: I know you changed all three.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: So you it took a decade, but you went to the city.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, but you started with a career first, right?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: So that was.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Tell us about that.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's just where did the idea come from?
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I want to do a membership club for bankers, yeah, you know, in in Asia, in finance.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and at that time, correct me if I'm wrong, you were you were focused on physical assets, right?
7:09
SPEAKER_02: That was the original concept.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Where did that come from?
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Actually, it was uh, you know, really funny enough, I was uh I was uh you know sitting there at my desk lunchtime, having a box of I don't know, rice or something.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And then I was I was browsing the internet, right?
7:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I was reading some articles.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: So one of the articles that I came across was uh about investing in domains.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, right, domains, right?
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Like a google.com or something.com, right?
7:35
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, wow, people actually make money investing in domains?
7:39
SPEAKER_00: So I was like curious about it.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: So then I I don't know why, but somehow, um, you know, then suddenly a name came to mind.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: The name was uh bankers club.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't know why, I just thought of that.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: So I put in um, you know, it was GoDaddy, right?
7:52
SPEAKER_00: GoDady.com, you know, I put bankersclub.com and then it said ah not available.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Then I was like, okay.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: And then a minute later, and then I was like, why don't I put Asia in front?
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So I tried it, it was like bingo, it's there, right?
8:07
SPEAKER_00: And so you just bought it like nine, I don't know, nine ninety US a year or something.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like, okay, I'll take my credit card out.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, this is a good investment, it's a good name, right?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Just take it, right?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So I just registered for like a two years, and then I couldn't stop thinking.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't about, you know, oh, this is being an investment.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna trade this, I'm gonna sell this for millions of dollars one day.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that it was like it's such a great name.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, why why can't I do something about it?
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's how the idea came about.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So so and it it didn't take me too long to be honest.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: It was about uh three days.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: I think I remember vividly it's less than a week.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably a three or four days.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And then I had the ideas and I decided that I have to just do it.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: That's pretty amazing because I think a lot of people, and maybe some listening, right, who are in various corporate jobs, think about leaving their job to start something, right?
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I'm on the other side, right?
8:57
SPEAKER_02: I've always been an entrepreneur, so like I can't even think about like working for a large company.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: But obviously, the majority of the world runs on people working for large companies, and people think about switching or or you know, having you know doing a startup, but most people don't do that.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: Was there like do you remember at that point?
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Was there a lot of fear?
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Was there a lot or you were just hey gung-ho, this is I gotta do this?
9:21
SPEAKER_00: No, a lot, a lot of fear, you know.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't have a lot of uh backup, it's not that I have a lot of funds lying around, you know, that can last me forever.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I did some big risk.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It was a big risk, yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: I was I did some calculation with all the savings I had.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, if I were to you know not spend so much money and I allocate this much for the business, which hopefully the business can last for a year, then yeah, maybe this this whole thing I have one year.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: But that calculation was all wrong.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Right, and it took me probably just three or four months to to utilize all the funds.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: And then before you know it, I was like, oh my gosh, okay, now what what is next?
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, okay, now credit card debt.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Then okay, after the first credit card, second credit cards, right?
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And then you keep rolling, and then you get worse and worse.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, honestly, the first first two or three years is no fun at all.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, now when you look back, think back, it's it sounds fun.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: The startup, this the pure startup, the idea to let's say concept phase is a tough one, right?
10:19
SPEAKER_02: And but you went all in, you didn't test, like you didn't like wait and kind of develop it while you had your job, you just went straight in.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: But how did you come up with this idea of hey, we want to do a membership club for people in finance to give them access to alternative investment or physical uh let's say assets?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Where did that idea come from?
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Did you talk to a lot of people who had said, hey, we wish we knew more about alternatives or physical assets?
10:44
SPEAKER_00: I guess it's more uh really my kind of um you know uh own experience and what I've been through uh and uh difficulties uh you know as a banker to be able to invest in financial products.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was sitting in the front office, so whenever you need to do certain investments, you need to get approval from compliance department.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: By the time you get the approval, the stocks would have moved up or down or whatever, you know, it's it's just too much work.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: So it's you were limited personally in your investment options, and you were thinking, okay, if I do things that are physical or alternative, at least I don't need the compliance of people to be able to do those.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Correct, correct.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Send off.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: True.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it started with real estate because that's the easiest one, uh, you know, uh as a physical asset for most people to understand, right?
11:34
SPEAKER_00: So I was looking at that, you know, and that makes sense.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, I still remember the very first project I did I brought to Hong Kong was uh a project from New York.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: And you knew nothing about property or real estate, you didn't have a background, it's not like you had a property, you know, degree license, nothing.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Zero knowledge, zero knowledge.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: So how so tell us about that story.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: So you how did you find this person listing a New York property and why did yeah, how did that work out?
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I just co-called, I just made some co-call and I just you know flew to New York, which I did not budget it, that's why, you know.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Extra expense.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: So you flew to New York, you met, and you thought, hey, there'd there'd be people in Hong Kong interested in this property.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I still remember some of the people I met in the you know, the first two months of my of my running the business, you know.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: I barely have uh, you know, a proper business card, seriously, right?
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I just you know put down, put up some PowerPoint myself.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I was meeting one of the owners of the uh large uh real estate agency.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think he's probably retired now.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's it's very um you know powerful guy, you're right.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And then there there was this young guy coming to him and say, let's work together.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: It was it was amazing that he he even took the meeting.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Gave you the chance, right?
12:46
SPEAKER_02: But I think there's a good lesson there, right?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Because I think as an entrepreneur, particularly if you believe in your idea, yeah, you have to make those cold calls, you have to try, right?
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Especially when when really you got to make your business work somehow, right?
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Like it was around that same time actually when we met out starting the whiskey fund, right?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: I was starting the the the world's first whiskey fund, private equity fund, and I met my business partner, David Robertson, in a similar way, cold call, right?
13:12
SPEAKER_02: I researched over a weekend, I was looking for for someone who had a particular background, and then I sent, I think, 15 or 20 emails to the people I tried, two responded.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: One was willing to do a call, and we ended up business partners for we're still working together today, 15 years, yeah, kind of later.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you have to be willing to take that risk, yeah.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and ask.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: If you don't ask, you're never gonna get the answer, yeah, right?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think it's it's a fine line between you know how how long you think you can last or you can you know hang on, yeah, right?
13:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there there has to be a deadline.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: And was there for you?
13:46
SPEAKER_02: You're looking at your cash flow.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you're a finance guy, you understand what's happening, you're potentially looking at some debt options.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: Was there ever a moment where you thought, okay, this is not gonna work, I should just let this go?
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, there wasn't.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: There wasn't.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's the scary part.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's why you get into more trouble.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, those just let's let's unpack that a little bit.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Was there you started to see enough success, and that's why you were confident to keep going, or what was happening that you know gave you this kind of want to say, okay, this is I'm gonna make this work no matter what.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: No, I I think I think it was more like uh, you know, um uh you you think that that is the business that you want to do, but you know that you will evolve.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: But you know, you just want to go along and see, let's say, how we can tweak this business idea and and try to make it work.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the the business strategy has been changing, yeah, especially in the first few years.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Even today, to be honest, it's like more than 10 years.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: We are still changing our strategy.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think that's important.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: You have to be willing to uh you know adapt to and and sometimes even pivot to what works and what what doesn't work.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: I remember those days.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I used to come to quite a few Asia Banker Clubs events.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: We did some wine events together back then.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: I think at one point you had a Formula One race, like a young guy who was trying to become a Formula One driver.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you were trying a lot of things back then, right?
15:07
SPEAKER_02: And that was pretty impressive, I thought.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: But I'm sure it was stressful from your standpoint, trying to figure out what really stuck, right?
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I and so when was it?
15:15
SPEAKER_02: So you started Asia Bankers Club 2012, 2013, around that time, when real estate, which I know is a big part of your business now.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: When did you feel that that really took off or that you could see that hey, we should cement and like this is this is gonna be a core part of our offering?
15:31
SPEAKER_02: When did that happen?
15:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it didn't really take off until 2015, I think.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was around 2015 when we started uh selling Thai properties.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: So you were definitely in in further credit card debt at this point, I'm guessing.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: At one point I was thinking that I should be, you know, working for the credit card companies in the state.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: So much better.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's much easier when you're the guy collecting the interest instead of getting the debt.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: And so, how did you try to why why did you do this offering from Thailand property?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Why did that happen?
16:05
SPEAKER_02: How did that happen?
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's also by chance, really.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, at uh at that moment, you know, no nobody really uh knows that you can actually invest in Thailand.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't know myself as well.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And then I was just like basically, you know, at that point I was like trying everything I can, you know, uh spending late till the night late at night, you know, I was like uh sending co-call emails to all the developers in all countries.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: It does not matter, whichever, whatever I can grab on the internet, I was sending emails, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Somehow, just by luck, chance, you know, you you got the email to the right people and you got invited to to Thailand.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And it was like the guy, it was San Siri, yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: So the biggest developer is huge, right?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: At that moment, I didn't really know how big they were.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can see that oh, it's a nice website and stuff, you know.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know they're they're the biggest.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I went there.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: I went there with not much uh, you know, kind of um hope or like know that this is this could be something that's really big, you know.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: And then I did I've not even been to Bangkok back then, honestly.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: So everything was new, so crazy.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Membership was growing at this point.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, can you remember kind of you were getting people in?
17:08
SPEAKER_02: Were they paying a membership fee to start, or were you offering it free?
17:12
SPEAKER_02: What was your strategy to get the members for for yeah?
17:15
SPEAKER_02: And it was anyone who was in finance anywhere across Asia.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: At the beginning, it was pretty uh, you know, I was more strict in terms of who who gets to be members, you know, the criteria to be in the industries, you know.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I did charge a small fee back then.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: It was like uh I can't remember a few hundred US a year kind of stuff.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And then after a while, uh, then you know, we opened up to more people.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: When we started, you know, it was a sharp rise in in membership, uh, but it was a lot uh drawing on my own network of friends, people in the industry.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I think I think in the first one year, we were probably like uh, I don't know, four or five thousand members, you know, which is pretty quick at that time.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't like a big like online marketing strategy, or it's not like you're taking out ads and doing all the it was really a lot of referrals and doing a lot of events where somebody would invite their friends and come talk and that correct.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: That's really how it built pretty organically, right?
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, correct, correct.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: But there was interest in this concept, and and people wanted to, I guess, belong to this, you know, this this kind of club.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a traditional club, it's not like you had a space and like, you know, like a your Soho House or anything like that.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: This was more obviously virtual, it was more about what was it about back then, I guess.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Was it about networking?
18:25
SPEAKER_02: What why did people want to join?
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Did they just want a job?
18:27
SPEAKER_02: What was it about?
18:28
SPEAKER_00: I guess it was a lot uh, yeah, like you said, networking and also the um, you know, the the events that we were organizing back then.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: It was uh totally crazy.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah like you know, we we we brought our members on a cruise to nowhere, right?
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Really nowhere.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, crystal nowhere from Singapore, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have members from Hong Kong flying to Singapore.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: We get on a cruise.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: It was all fully sponsored by Star Cruisers.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: They gave us like I think 100 cabins, that's amazing, and then all fully paid for dinner, lunch, breakfast, everything.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: I see why people wanted to be a member for it.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Just come and bought, right?
19:01
SPEAKER_02: But there was a huge turnout.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I remember even you and I didn't have that.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: It must have been 2013 or 14 at American Club.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: And we had like 150 people show up for this like alternative uh panel where I was talking about wine, I think.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: And we had somebody talk about stamps and someone else talk about something, and maybe it was art or something like that.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: But it was always a big turnout that must have at least given you some confidence that hey, there is there is demand here, but I guess you didn't know how to monetize that.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: Is that what was happening?
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: I guess, yeah, that's that's a fair, fair statement.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Because there was there was interest, and then it was just like, what are we gonna sell to these?
19:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay, great to have 5,000, 10,000 people, but if we don't sell them anything, we're not really making any money here.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So it was back then, you know, I which I don't really have the sales people, my own sales team.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: So I was like kind of like tapping on, like, no, luckily, like like you, yourself with your team, right?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, meeting you, I know at that moment was was amazing, right?
19:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we did so much things together.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, if you were not that supportive at that moment, I might not be here today, to be honest.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's very kind, man.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: Cheers with that.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Cheers, cheers.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: On that note, we'll try the the second whiskey.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, welcome to the second one.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: So the second whiskey here is a Glen Flash 25-year-old.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: So we've bought the AVB A ABV way down to 43%.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Glenn Flash 25-year-old, in my opinion, this is the best value 25-year-old whiskey anywhere in the world.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: So, this is like if you come to my home anytime, I've always got a bottle of this kind of around.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: So, this is it's under 2,000 Hong Kong or under 200 pounds a bottle.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can get a 25-year-old whiskey.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: There's no other brand that you can get a 25-year-old whiskey of this quality.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: And and so I this is uh I am cheating a little bit in terms of the ratings here because I snuck this in because it's one of my favorites.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought you could also enjoy something that's like easy drinking, nice to have.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: If you want something that looks impressive at the home bar, you know, if you have a a you know, friends coming over or you take a bottle somewhere, this is the bottle I would suggest you you take the Glen Farcos 25 because it's just a great gift, or it just looks good because everyone's oh, you're opening a 25-year-old you know, whiskey for me.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: All right.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, it looks good for everyone.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So for me, but this one tastes a bit more bitter, yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: It does for you?
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Maybe coming off of that one, or just uh for me.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it's uh it's actually well rounded for me.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: I think it's got a like great tannins, great fruit.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: This is very classic cherry space whiskey.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give that um yeah, a solid eight.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: A solid eight out of ten.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I think this is just what 25 year old kind of whiskey, but I think also if you give It a maybe add a drop or two of water and give it a couple of minutes, your palate will adjust to the next whiskey a little bit and give it, you know, come back to it as well.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I I took I took this one just now, right?
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Before, yeah.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: So give your give your palate a chance.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: So so let's dive into okay.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: So now real estate is what percentage roughly of what you guys are doing today is the real estate side of the business?
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Is it's a it's a large chunk?
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Is it a majority?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think uh as of uh last year, uh it has changed quite quite a bit.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh before that, I would say easily 90-95% of what we do.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: But uh as of last year, uh that has dropped a bit more to like about 80, 80%, I would say.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: So uh then we have other type of things that we we we offer to to complement.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: And is and is that um, I guess a reflection on the market in the sense that there's just a little bit less demand in real estate right now, given uh you know some global uncertainties, etc.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Or is it a conscious choice from your side that you're trying to expand to more products?
23:05
SPEAKER_02: What or is it a bit of both?
23:06
SPEAKER_00: It's it's really both.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I think timing-wise, you know, um a lot of market is slowing down.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really is that market is slowing down, certainly in Asia.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with just Middle East that's really doing well now.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there's been a huge oversupply in a lot of places.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just moved to Phuket nine months ago, and I can tell you there is so much construction all over all over Phuket.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: All I see are cranes and new condos and more condos and more condos, and I'm wondering who's gonna live in all these condos in Phuket.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and maybe there is enough demand.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely not uh you know savvy enough to understand the the real estate market, but it seems like things are slowing down a little bit.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: And then certainly here in Hong Kong, that's been going on for a few years now.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: Singapore may be a bit different.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: I guess we saw a huge influx of Hong Kong people moving to Singapore kind of during COVID, but then now the prices have gone up to pretty much Hong Kong level, so the benefit isn't quite there in Singapore as much.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh, what are you seeing across some of the other countries?
24:05
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing something differently?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: What's your view on kind of the real estate market right now across Asia?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Across Asia, I think there they are still certain uh you know uh value really, uh certain parts of our uh you know markets.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like let's say let's say in in the case of Thailand, I I won't say that you know it's all doom and bad.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean certain prime areas, prime locations in Bangkok, I mean, they're still worth worth investing.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And then of course, uh depends on what you want.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if this is more a bit uh for your your a bit of a holiday home or investments, that that's fine.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, but if you want to gear in all about making returns, rental yields, it's not it's not in Thailand, unfortunately, at this stage, right?
24:47
SPEAKER_00: It's more like let's say Dubai, Abu Dhabi.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe RIAC, which is coming up soon, right?
24:53
SPEAKER_02: And for your members, you know, obviously, so you've had this real estate business, which is and congratulations, by the way.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: I know it's very impressive.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: I've been to some of the events, I've seen you guys do a lot of work where you, you know, whole weekends where you had a lot of like showcases of of properties, and and I was always very impressed by uh the way everything was put together and and all the information and how well it was marketed, and you'd have hundreds of people coming through, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_02: And in every given session.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: So congrats on that, and that's exciting.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: So, from from that point of view, and I guess from the real estate side, what is it that most of your members are or clients are are they looking for?
25:30
SPEAKER_02: Is it an investment or or is it uh yeah, holiday home?
25:34
SPEAKER_02: What are people looking for?
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh more and more is definitely investments nowadays.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: And they want the rental yield, or are they looking for that value?
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, I want to flip it in five years.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Is that what they're looking for?
25:44
SPEAKER_00: I think they are different type of clients.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, uh when when it's it when it's about the Middle East, the clients that we see are a bit more mature type clients, like 40 and above.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So they typically um you know they they do flip as well.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but I think I would say more like 50% probably would want to go for that rental you.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Because you're getting like eight, nine, ten percent a year.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's the same.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: There's real there's real real you, yeah.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and as in in in USD, because the DRAM is packed to the dollar, right?
26:16
SPEAKER_00: So these are dollar returns.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: So they they want it.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: That's very attractive.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: But the problem is, of course, you know, it takes time to build this, these, these uh apartments, right?
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Some of these projects can be like three to four years before they complete.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: So your money will be with the developers, you know, waiting for for completion.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Some that's the downside.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: And so you have to wait until then.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: And then once it hits the market, what's the rentability?
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Like the stuff is all so fast.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: It's so fast, yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, they there's just lack of supply in in in all these places because the population growth is so high in in in these Amirts.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Because of what's going on around the world.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: The whole world is moving there.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, I've definitely noticed a lot of people, particularly from the UK.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think have moved to Dubai.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: I think people from Hong Kong also.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, there was a lot of there was a whole influx of Russians.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's still happening, but yeah, people from all over the world really have have chosen Dubai, and I guess Abu Dhabi and other places as well now, right?
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: So when did you start going into the Middle East?
27:15
SPEAKER_02: When did you see that?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Two and uh two and a half, three years ago, but three years ago, probably, yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: And how did that come about?
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Was that again another opportunistic, you know, uh yeah, how did how did you start?
27:25
SPEAKER_00: It was it was it was uh it was actually uh right after COVID, you know.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: And then we see a lot of uh activities, a lot of people talking about, you know, oh Dubai, Dubai, yeah, you know, the the the prices are going up and up, you know.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: I was a bit skeptical to be honest.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't really sure.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And uh until I actually visited, visit the place, I see it with my own eyes, I talk to the local people, you know, I I try to invest myself, I try to flip it.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: So with my own experience, you know, then I said, wow, this is real.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: This is not not some BS, right?
28:00
SPEAKER_00: This is real stuff.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's actually what convinced me, right?
28:04
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, even in the last three years, I've been I've been traveling so much.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I I mean I would count myself as an Emirate residence now.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do have the ID.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: You have the what was it, the golden visa?
28:15
SPEAKER_00: The golden visa.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I spend um like more than half of my time a year in in the UAE now, right?
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but of course, my my wife and kids are still here.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I always remind her I say they you can have four wives over there.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: So she could have come quickly.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: If she wants to be number one, is that what you're saying?
28:34
SPEAKER_02: She should she should invest in becoming number.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Does she like Dubai?
28:39
SPEAKER_02: What's her?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: No, she loves she loves Dubai.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: She loves Dubai, but uh of course, uh you know, not not when it's summer, you know.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: It's difficult, it's challenging.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: So interestingly, and you brought up the pandemic.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to hear, you know, what was what happened to your business during the pandemic because that must have been a super tough time in terms of you obviously not doing events, people are not traveling.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Interestingly, I spent the only time I've really spent significant time in Dubai was during the pandemic.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Because it was it was 2000, it was 20.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: My daughter was born in 2020, yeah right at the beginning of 2020 uh 20, um, which was obviously a difficult time.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: And then we made it to 2021, I think it was, when um she hadn't seen her grandparents.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: So my wife's from from the US, so both of both of her parents uh live in the US.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you remember back then in Hong Kong, it was like 2021, uh, there was a flight ban from the US, so it was a flight ban into the UK.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: So if you went to the US, you'd have to like go like wash out in Singapore for like yeah, there was all these quarantine measures and all this stuff.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it was getting to the point that you know we really wanted obviously grandparents to be able to meet their daughter, who was now already more than a year old.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we actually uh moved to Dubai for a month.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So we lived in Dubai for a full month.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think it was around April timeline.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: And and then that way her parents were able to come and visit us there.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: And we had the best time ever.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we got a you know, an apartment, we had a we rented a car, we even had a helper.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: Like we were living the Dubai, I was just working from there, kind of live the Dubai lifestyle.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: And for kids, there's so much stuff to do, and for all I think for adults, for everyone, there's always so much stuff to do.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: So food is amazing.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: So we really enjoyed our time there.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: And I even thought, hey, maybe you know, Dubai could be good for us.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: But the heat is just like that summer, is just I'm not sure, something I could really enjoy full time.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: But I'm excited to go go back to Dubai and uh hopefully be going in the next few months and and see what's going on there.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: What was the pandemic like for you and your business?
30:40
SPEAKER_02: How did you guys get through that?
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, surprisingly, um, at the beginning it was tough to adjust, to re-revise our strategy, right?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, back then, you know, I've never even heard of Zoom.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Seriously, you know, I you know.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Everything you did was in person, it was all yeah.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, then then we discovered Zoom and it was like, okay, let's do an online webinar.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's work.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: People, I think that the the the the what actually helped us at that moment was a coup a couple of things.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: In fact, looking back, honestly, those periods of of you know during COVID, we actually did much better than than even after COVID.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: In in mostly in properties, in properties, yeah.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the reason was a few things.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, number one is um, you know, people can't travel, so a lot of people are stuck at home, right?
31:23
SPEAKER_00: With nothing to do.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: So, what do you do?
31:25
SPEAKER_00: You can't be Netflix all the time.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh so you know, um, no, you you join some of these um you know online webinars, right?
31:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, um, you know, we chat, they have more time to spend with us, and then of course, then uh social distancing was relaxed a bit.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: Remember during Hong Kong and Hong Kong, you know, then people can come out with masks, but you still can't travel abroad, so there are still more people in Hong Kong, right?
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: So they can attend some of these events, smaller scale events that we were allowed to do.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: That's true, yeah.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: You had the advantage of people being able to come see, yeah.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: And then and then uh because people still can't travel um like now, you know, people go to Senjun for their weekends, you know.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: We did not have that problem before.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: No, it no, not at all.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: So now now it's now it's tough, right?
32:06
SPEAKER_02: Now it's getting people's attention and getting them to commit to come and attend is a bit tougher.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: And then uh what else, like you know, uh of course the even the hotel rates during those times when you're doing events, you know, you had a lot of promotions.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, because the hotels would do anything that's like you guys uh yeah, do an event there.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Nobody was, I mean, a lot of weddings and everything, all tight, all all the trade shows, all the conferences were all cancelled, right?
32:31
SPEAKER_02: Nobody was doing that.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: So I guess there was a silver lining to the pandemic, depending on what business you're in.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: But it sounds uh it sounds like it was actually net positive.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: It was, it was, yeah, it was for us, it was uh it was good, uh, you know, not as bad as we expected.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: And of course, the other thing that uh, you know, the Hong Kong government helped a lot, you know, not just our company, but all businesses, right?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: There are all these like cheap financing, you know, uh all the all the perks, you know, yeah, all the bailouts and stuff.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: I I guess that that helps everyone.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: To write through, yeah.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: So the membership, going back to kind of talking about the membership, isn't you know, you started, you said the first year it was maybe three, four or five thousand people.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: You're now at a hundred and ten thousand.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a let's a significant size membership club.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: When did most of that growth happen, or is it is it still happening?
33:20
SPEAKER_02: What's going on with the membership now?
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess in the last five or six years, that's where most of the the growth happened, right?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And then uh we're at a moment of, to be honest, in the last one year we see a bit of um you know flattening.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: A little plateau.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Because you've reached such a high level already.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: So that's why they're also what brings us to uh re-strategize again and to to add more fuel to create new products for the club.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: So, like just know what you say, you know, longevity, static stuff, you know, wellness.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, Rikesh here, the whiskey chief.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: If you made it this far in the episode, firstly, thank you so much.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: As you know, it takes a lot to put on these kinds of episodes.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: So if you can like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskeys to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: So, where did that come from?
34:07
SPEAKER_02: And I and I'm drawing obviously on uh if you if you don't mind sharing, I know you posted about that.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: You had a bit of a health uh uh situation.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Was it last year where it was just uh hospital?
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it was just last year in uh September or October.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: I was in ICU um in Dubai.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know the reason.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, please share, yeah, a little bit of the story.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's really crazy.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Camel's milk, right?
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Unpasteurized, unpasteurized camel's milk.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And why did you try unpasteurized camel's milk?
34:38
SPEAKER_02: What was happening?
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, what was going on when you're away from your wife and children and you're in Dubai?
34:46
SPEAKER_02: What's that?
34:46
SPEAKER_02: Why what are you doing?
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, first first of all, first of all, it did not happen in Dubai.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh for for all foreigners, it wasn't because of Dubai.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: I was I was in Saudi.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: So Saudi, no alcohol.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: So forget whiskey.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: You can't, you can't, well now they just legalize.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: They just they just legalize.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: For for I think for foreigners only.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: For foreigners uh who has certain minimum income, then you're allowed you allowed to buy.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: But you own you also have very very limited options, and there's probably only one store that can sell that.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: And you can't you can't get alcohol in in um in restaurants or bars.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's all you know the better go set up the second shop.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: I feel like you gotta introduce me to the right people.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: I feel like things are opening up.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: So if we take a long view, maybe there's an opportunity there.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: I think you probably have better business bringing camel's milk from the selling Hong Kong.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, so because you couldn't get alcohol, you go, well, just give me the camel's milk.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that's better, yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Why why did you what so no anyway, anyway.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: So the way the way people socialize, you know, um, you know, they spend the time in the evening is well, either drink coffee or drink camel's milk.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: Really?
35:53
SPEAKER_02: Not tea.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, because I've like I've been to like Turkey and places where um like tea is very popular.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Like I know in Istanbul, I mean, people do drink in Istanbul as well, but a lot of people like they love to have apple tea, like the small little like cups of apple tea, and you play backgammon.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, there's many cultures around the world where if you don't have alcohol, they have even Egypt, things like that.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: People drink a lot of tea.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: But in Saudi, I've never been to Saudi, so camel's milk is what you drink.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was I was at somebody's home, you know.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a nice place, uh, you know, and uh it was a big few.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: And um, there was, I think it was uh coming to midnight, you know.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: I thought that hey, it's it's gonna finish, you know, we're gonna go home now.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And it was like, no, the party starts now at midnight.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: All right, okay, so what do we do?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we were eating so many dates, right?
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And then they were like, okay, let's bring the camel's milk.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: I was like, camel's milk?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, like where?
36:46
SPEAKER_00: There were like lots of camels out there, seriously.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: So it was all fresh.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you actually went and milked a camel?
36:51
SPEAKER_02: No, somebody milked them.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Somebody milked them.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: And then I want to hear that story.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And then they brought it in.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: Did you watch like you saw some bucket of milk in?
37:00
SPEAKER_00: No, they brought a bucket, and not one bucket, like lots of buckets.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: There were like, I think 20 or 30 people in the room.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So so it was like a big tent, right?
37:09
SPEAKER_00: So so they had they had the big buckets and then like bowls for everybody.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: And then I was looking at it, I was like, wow.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And then I can see some fur, camel's fur.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like, oh, okay.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: So totally not pasteurized.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: And then they go, let's, let's, let's go.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that you can't you can't do that.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: But how come everyone else was okay?
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Because they're used to it.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so they grew up in tolerance, yeah.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and when the when you first do it, you can't go like one whole bowl.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Which is what you did.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Just do like one or two sips, and that's it.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and then you could do it over time and over time, and build up a tolerance.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Correct, correct.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: But you had a lot more.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: I I was like, come on, left down, man.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: The guy was like, oh, this guy is gung ho.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: And then how quickly did you feel some of the immediately two hours later, two hours later.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: So this is like two, three in the morning, you're like, two hours later, yeah.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: So I was already in the first ICU.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: One day it was alright, not too bad.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Got out, and then I flew to Dubai on the third day, comes back again.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: So the next round is three three days three days of ICU.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: And the ICU is mostly to rehydrate you, or what what what is the effect it has on your body?
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, you did they did they explain that to you?
38:21
SPEAKER_02: Like what was happening?
38:22
SPEAKER_00: There was a there was a medical term, I can't remember what it's called.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yeah, it's basically uh, you know, it it it actually caused a spike in my sugar level and lots of stuff.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: All the readings were off the chart, and my pancreas was inflamed as well at the same time.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Wow, so it was all the drips and stuff.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, this was so scary, right?
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was like, oh man.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm uh now in my nice camels, I run away.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, camels are not your friend.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: Man, I would have hated to like I you know, listening on the call you had to make to your wife from ICU to explain why you're an ICU in Saudi Arabia because you join counsel.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so that's actually what actually uh you know inspired me for uh you know like what we talk about, the wellness business, right?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, because for for 13 years now, I've always been you know about helping our members, our clients, friends, you know, invest their money, grow their wealth through physical assets, you know.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm happy that, you know, of course, I wouldn't say it's 100% success rate, but I think our success rate is pretty high.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, people make money, good returns, they're happy, they come back, right?
39:29
SPEAKER_02: But I think there's one you're also not, I think it's important to clarify, you're also not responsible for you know the decisions people make.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, people have to make their own decisions in terms of investments, right?
39:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's great that obviously things have worked out for them and and generally speaking, right?
39:45
SPEAKER_02: But people are making their own decisions on what they're doing.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and no.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I can't say it entirely that really, because I think you know, people they buy through us because they believe the trust that we have the uh you know the the capabilities and the professionalism to to do the due diligence, right?
40:02
SPEAKER_02: They're trusting that you're doing it on their behavior.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right, yeah.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you can get the market right, you think you think uh, you know, uh Dubai is gonna do well, but if you choose the wrong developer and the company go bust, right, it's gonna be bad.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's something that you need to check as well.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Is there any problem with the project, right?
40:18
SPEAKER_00: First of all.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I do stress out myself a lot making sure that nothing like this happened, right?
40:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, only dealing with trusted partners.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I can't control the market.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can read the market wrongly, but you know, at least I can control you know a bit more on choosing the right partners, the right products, right?
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: So um anyway, so I think uh after more than 10 years doing that, you know, I think then you know for me, I look at myself as a line there at ICU.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: I was like, so I think you know what?
40:47
SPEAKER_00: This is the physical assets that I think we missed out.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: The most important one.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Right, the body.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: So what's the point of making so much money?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: You can't enjoy it, right?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, okay, no, we I gotta do something about that.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: So then I was like thinking, I was like, okay, okay, something to do with longevity.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So that that was what I was doing.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: This is a big topic around the world, right?
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially in the last, I would say, maybe one to two years, longevity has become a whole new fascination from everything from ice baths to taking peptides and IVs to you know the way you obviously people, the way you eat and train and all that.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: So, what part of longevity are you trying to focus on, or is it more exposure to all these different ideas?
41:32
SPEAKER_00: So, well, first of all, that that business is a medical concierge business, right?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: So basically we are like the middleman, right bringing uh you know the members to to the right partners, right?
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Whether they're in Korea, in Thailand, in UAE, Switzerland, or wherever they are, right?
41:45
SPEAKER_00: We find good partners for it.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: So you do the due diligence, maybe this is you know a trusted program.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Correct, correct, correct.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: So we do two areas, right?
41:52
SPEAKER_00: One area is aesthetic.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Aesthetic uh means external body, right?
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: So you want to look good, you want to, you know.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of Korea there.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: So um uh, and then of course you have longevity, right?
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Longevity is all about you know living longer.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: So under longevity, there are actually um, you know, quite a lot of things you can do, right?
42:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, of course, the most common that people will go for is um, you know, stem cell treatments.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's become very popular now.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have you found that there's actually medical, like because it's so new, is there actually evidence that that that it works?
42:25
SPEAKER_02: Have you tried it yourself?
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever tried it?
42:27
SPEAKER_02: I I haven't tried it yet.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean to be honest, I have not, but I'm actually going to.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've made an appointment.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'll tell you after next month.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: So we'll have to have you back and kind of have a both day.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean I I met with uh with somebody in Thailand, it's big in Thailand, yeah, yeah.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: And there's lots of different clinics.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: So I did meet with somebody uh in Phuket.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of trying to learn a bit more.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: They were saying I should do is in NADS is one of them, and cucumin was another that are like kind of standard IV.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: You do it a couple of times and then you do it once a month, and it's supposed to help with your energy, and da da da.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: I talked to some friends who you know who really love it and do it and are kind of bought in.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: And I've definitely talked to some friends who've said there's no medical evidence whatsoever that it works.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: I think somewhat it's untest, like there's not enough facts, there's not enough data, right?
43:14
SPEAKER_02: But I think also everyone's an individual, so maybe it works better for some people versus other.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's your view on this whole stem cell.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll just share what I know to be honest.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I I I've been uh diving diving deep into this this topic myself because I'm actually um using it on myself as well, you know, as as as a guinea pig, right?
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I do believe in that, right?
43:37
SPEAKER_00: For me, you know, I I feel that um it's not really that new.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: It's been around for for a long time, right?
43:44
SPEAKER_00: And there are basically two groups of uh I would say you know, um stem cell res uh therapy.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the one that you mentioned in Thailand, a lot of it is from donors' cells.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, right?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: So you you get for from the umbilical cord, right?
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Right, so you get from the donors, yeah.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Um It's not your own cell, which um there are pros and cons.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: So here a lot of it is like flown in from Germany and things like that.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: So I guess that makes sense because you know, if you if you think from the point of view of like, you know, if if you are somebody already um, you know, uh with a lot of health problems, you are you're already uh older, much older, then your cells are no good anymore.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: So it does not matter, you know, where which part, which body fats you take it from, you know, you're never gonna extract uh those goods.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: The good cells to culture into you know more cells, right?
44:33
SPEAKER_00: So then you you might as well use somebody's cells, uh uh donor cells.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: So that that's the that that's the one of the uh the camp uh you know uh of of um you know stem cell research or therapy.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: And then there's another one, uh of course in Korea.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: I know I've been I've been in Korea so much, uh especially given my wife is half Korean.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: So I've been I've been meeting a lot of doctors and uh you know those hospitals over there.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: The way they do it is is is different.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: They use your own cell to help you rebuild.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: So uh your own cell could be from your blood, uh, which I don't really recommend because that's actually risky.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: Putting putting blood like recycle back into your blood blood vessels, that that sounds risky to me, right?
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Contamination and stuff, right?
45:14
SPEAKER_00: So uh so I wouldn't I wouldn't do that myself, you know.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Then then you of course you have you have like um you know um uh from your body fat, right?
45:22
SPEAKER_00: And then from there you you culture it and then put it back to your body.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: So of course that lab you know has to be very um you know reputable, right?
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Has to be safe, you know, uh clean, you know, no contamination.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of these things uh that that goes behind.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's regulated by the government.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: So every country has their own different ways.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think would you say Korea and Thailand are in Asia are probably leading the way?
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, in the US, LA, uh would you say is that of course definitely Switzerland is?
45:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh, you know, um and then I think Hong Kong wants to be in uh you know a hub for stem cell as well.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: But but of course you can't do that here.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: That's not legal here, right?
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: As I know that it is not, so that nobody offers that.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: But having said that, you see a lot of conference events happening in in Hong Kong being the hub of stem cell uh research, right?
46:13
SPEAKER_02: So that's uh so I think I think anyway, that's that's uh something new that you're expanding into learning more on behalf of your members, helping them with these these medical.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking on longevity, I have one solution here myself, and that's to have a little whiskey every day.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think that helps uh a lot with longevity.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: If you you know take a look at uh a lot of the successful, you know, uh particularly people like Jane Goodall, etc., who live like long, long time in their life, they often attribute a little bit of whiskey every day, help them with that.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: So who knows if there's any truth to that, but I'm gonna subscribe to that theory.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that drinking a little whiskey every day helps you, just a little.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: This third whiskey is a special one for us.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are going back up in ABB now 55%.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: This is our own independent bottling.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, halcyon.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: So halcyon is our core range, so this is our range of independent bottlings, and this is our latest release, Strath Mill 28-year-old.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: So this is a 28-year-old whiskey from a distillery called Strath Mill in Space.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: You can see from the color, very dark, very sherry.
47:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the idea.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: This is a what's called a single cask release.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: So this was just one cast.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: I think there was only 150 bottles, something like that.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: So that's it in the whole world.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: That's all we have of this particular um whiskey.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Good to try on its own, but I would definitely add a couple of drops of water to let it open up.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: And for me, this Strathmill is I think we're we're retailing this at 150 pounds a bottle, so it's not a crazy expensive whiskey, but I think in terms of the value you're getting for a 28-year-old, and again, I'm biased on this one because this is one of our one of our own whiskeys, but I think it's just very well developed, you know, 25-year-old.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: Now we've moved up to kind of 28-year-old, but you're getting that cast strength, so it's a little bit more strength, you know, when it comes across in the palette, and a little bit more um boldness in the in the flavors.
48:23
SPEAKER_02: So I'd give this uh yeah, I'd give this a solid 8.2, I think.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: Just a little bit better than the Glenn Farkless, a little bit more punch to it.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: Just yeah, a really nice, well-rounded whiskey.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: So very nice.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: So for the membership now, uh you're so you're expanding into longevity.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: That's is that something that you've tested?
48:45
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you've gone through a personal story that has kind of led you to okay, now you're interested in a person.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing this as something your member do you do a survey with your membership?
48:55
SPEAKER_02: How do you know what they're really interested in?
48:58
SPEAKER_00: No, honestly, uh, you know, um, you know, we since this is not available in Hong Kong, you know, we don't really um you know like offer this to them.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, what what we do as an alternative, surprisingly, I think not many people actually um know about it, is traditional Chinese medicine.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: So TCMs is of course you know pretty well established in China, in Hong Kong.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, we work with with partners here and and they do have their own longevity kind of uh programs as well.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, have you tried a lot of that?
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you yeah, I have tried those as well.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: So we'll we'll see how how how that works.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_02: So and what's the main how also educate me a little bit?
49:33
SPEAKER_02: Is it it's drinking mostly like certain herbs and teas, or is it more using needles?
49:39
SPEAKER_02: What what's the what's the type of therapy?
49:41
SPEAKER_00: A mixture of both.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Mixture of both, yeah.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Because I've done some of that.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: We get acupuncture.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh I actually think acupuncture really works.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: I've used it, I had like lower back pain like a few years ago, and I saw a Chinese doctor and through some therapy of some acupuncture.
49:56
SPEAKER_02: It definitely helped.
49:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying got got you know got rid of it.
49:59
SPEAKER_02: I think there was a few other things I did that also helped, but it was a great, I guess, assistant, or like if you're doing it as part of other things.
50:07
SPEAKER_02: I I believe like there's eastern medicine, western medicine, you should try both.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: But there's benefits to both of what you're doing.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so is it that kind of stuff that you're helping with?
50:16
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: That kind of stuff, yeah.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: So I guess uh, you know, uh a lot of a lot of these are you know uh is still I would say early stage for us.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: But the good thing is um um yeah, I'm not sure what I share with you.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh we have a new investors um on board since uh last year.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes, congrats.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you, thank you.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: Tell us about this.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: This is uh this is some uh this is some pretty big news.
50:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to hear how you got this, but please share first a little bit of the background.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess yeah, the reason why I want to share this is because uh we will link back to uh you know the the the the the wellness stuff as well.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: In uh mid of last year, uh we uh got in uh investors, uh, you know, uh uh family office of uh Mr.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Lawrence Ho uh to the group.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: So for those who don't know, Lawrence How Macau Casinos, Melco Group, massive, right?
51:03
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely massive.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: So uh very glad that that they're on board.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, they they now become our second largest uh shareholder.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh so substantial shares enough uh to to actually have them contributing uh you know uh a lot to us.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: Um so why would a casino group owner be interested in Asia Bankers Club?
51:25
SPEAKER_02: Help me do the connection.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: How did this come about?
51:28
SPEAKER_02: How did you even meet him?
51:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, basically, uh, you know, uh we have known the uh the person who runs the family office for for quite a number of years, and um, you know, he personally actually um invested with us uh in Vietnam.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: So for for a very long time.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: And uh I guess he did you know they they like what we do, they like you know how we were professionals, you know, the advice we gave, uh and they make good money uh from from those investments themselves, right?
51:55
SPEAKER_02: So they tried it, they tested it.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: But that was mostly on the property side.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: On the property side, you know, and um, and uh, I guess uh, you know, Asia Bankers Club.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Um I guess it appeals to them because you know the network, right?
52:08
SPEAKER_00: And um, I mean, but if you ask me deep down, what's really happening is really the the chemistry somehow.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: The relationship.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just like honestly.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it you know, if there's no chemistry, it's it's very difficult for me to open up and and have them, you know, as such a big partner as well, right?
52:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think that their chemistry is very strong.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, we see our you know good value from from yeah, and are they an active shareholder in the sense that are they trying to bring something to the group, or it's more they're helping from a strategic kind of board level?
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Not really active as in running the business, right?
52:40
SPEAKER_00: But they are active as in their soul open with their ecosystem for us to tap on and leverage on.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: So coming back to you know the question you asked, you know, about wellness, right?
52:50
SPEAKER_00: Because um, under their group, uh they have the iRat hospital.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I didn't know that.
52:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: So iRET, iRET in Macau and Hong Kong.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: So there's a time now to be able to.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so because of that, you know, and iRET is the the largest uh uh imaging uh center in Hong Kong, right?
53:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: And and they also do aesthetic and you know that kind of stuff, and they just open up in a casino, uh you know, a hospital.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: So they can do that.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: They open the hospital inside the casino, it's a casino, it's a it's a medical tourism.
53:17
SPEAKER_02: Why?
53:18
SPEAKER_00: Medical tourism.
53:19
SPEAKER_02: So the point is uh when it's like you gamble too much, you go to the hospital, you come back, you gamble more.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's it's I guess the concept is more like you know, the husband will be gambling, the wife will be doing some ecstatic treatments and stuff, right?
53:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: There is a push in Macau, I guess there always has been to try to do more than gaming.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I've heard that for 25 years.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: I've never really seen it come to life.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: And just in my opinion, like, and I haven't been to Macau in a little while, to be honest, but like there was always this dream of Macau kind of being a bit more like Las Vegas in the sense that an entertainment space, a family.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: I has that really happened in your change a lot.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you look at um, especially because I still have young kids, so I I do bring them, you know, for all these like water park and stuff.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: There are more and more of those activities for them.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Like Studio City is full of like kids' facilities.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, right, and then uh like the house of dancing water.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's been there for like 10 years, right?
54:17
SPEAKER_02: They revamp it, right?
54:18
SPEAKER_02: So it's uh twice already.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: So but my my point is that okay, it's great to have that, but when we have 10 shows like that, yeah, that hasn't really taken it has is not at that level, right?
54:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so gaming is still and the revenues in Macau are what eight times what they are in the world.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: Six times, yeah.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: It's not even close to Las Vegas.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: Most people don't realize that they think that Las Vegas is the gambling capital of the world.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: That's not even close.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: Like Macau is six times.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: One casino in Macau is like uh, I don't know, like one billion US dollar of net income.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: That's already more than um the whole of Las Vegas.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's and then you have six you have six casinos operator in Macau, right?
54:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're seeing obviously changes in in gaming licenses around Asia, a lot, a lot of new new countries in the last few years that have kind of allowed that.
55:13
SPEAKER_02: So let's go on to our last whiskey.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: This one is a peated whiskey.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: This is a Loch Loman Inchman, six single malts, uh, 10-year-olds.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: So just to throw this in at 46%.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: So this is what we call a PD whiskey, a smoky whiskey, right?
55:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna taste very, very different, smell very, very different than everything else we have.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: A lot more medicinal style.
55:38
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of time with PD whiskey, people either love it or hate it.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: They kind of love the smell, um, and this is like very popular to them, or they're very, very against it.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: Generally, what happens, but some people love you know PD and Sherry, etc.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: So personally, again, have to full disclosure, I'm not a huge fan of PD whiskey, but I like to try everything and kind of enjoy everything a little bit.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: So I think it's good to try different things, right?
56:08
SPEAKER_02: And the goal for today was give you a bit of an exposure to different whiskies.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: I have a sense to try something a bit different.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I I like the first one the most.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: So that was the the Kablan.
56:18
SPEAKER_02: So that was more the rum and a little bit sweeter style.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: I would give this a solid seven.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: I think it's well structured, good 10-year-old, but doesn't have that depth of flavor that that I personally enjoy.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: I think a good decent whiskey.
56:32
SPEAKER_02: So so talking about alternatives and whiskey being part of that whiskey, wine, art, etc.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what are you seeing from an Asia Bankers Club point of view in terms of interest to learn more about this?
56:47
SPEAKER_02: At least in the reports that I read, and correct me, you know, if you're seeing something different, there is an increase in interest in alternatives.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: We're seeing obviously an interesting time, let's say, in terms of uncertainty around the world, and there's a lot of nervousness in especially US equity markets, which are especially in tech and et cetera, where people made a lot of money, but prices are very high right now.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: There there seems to be a grow, growing interest in diversification once again in this cycle, and and how to get away from that.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: And alternatives, I obviously I believe has a has a role.
57:22
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing that?
57:23
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing the opposite?
57:24
SPEAKER_02: What's your view?
57:26
SPEAKER_00: I think uh, you know, alternatives investments is definitely um, you know, have a have a big role.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, I I wouldn't put uh Bitcoin into the same thing.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, crypto iside.
57:36
SPEAKER_02: That's a good clarification.
57:37
SPEAKER_02: Let's put crypto aside.
57:38
SPEAKER_02: So we're talking more about physical assets, so wine, whiskey, art, that those kinds of things.
57:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
57:44
SPEAKER_00: I think I think uh, you know, uh, to be honest, you know, uh wine and whiskeys, uh, you know, it has, of course, over the last 10 years been driven by by consumptions in China, right?
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, a lot of it to do with uh the Chinese econom economy, right?
57:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess the challenge a bit is you know, um, what is the replacement?
58:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean that the economy is slowing down in China, and then you know, so who else is gonna consume these things, right?
58:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Middle East is booming, but unfortunately, right, alcohol is not really the case.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: Not a big part of it, yeah.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: I think Dubai a little bit is still the expats.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think there is a lot of alcohol actually being consumed, I would I would say hidden, let's say be behind closed doors uh in in certain circles.
58:28
SPEAKER_02: But actually, and I'm heading to India on Wednesday and I haven't been there in 20 years.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: So uh my bet is on India.
58:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I think there's a lot of growth in India uh when it comes to well, it's a growing economy in terms of millionaires and and wealth anyway.
58:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, whiskey has always been part of Indian culture since the Brits lived there, right?
58:48
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of one of the things they they left behind was this love for whiskey.
58:52
SPEAKER_02: But what we're seeing is that shift from blended whiskeys, the shit the Johnny Walker's, the shibbus, and all that, which people have been drinking for generations, yeah, now into single mall.
59:02
SPEAKER_02: And it seems to be taking off in a in a whole new way.
59:05
SPEAKER_02: And uh, not sure if you're aware or not, but just last year, UK uh signed a trade agreement with India.
59:11
SPEAKER_02: So the import duty on on whiskey was 150%, which is extremely high.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: That's now been halved to 75% through this new trade deal.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: It goes down to 50% within the next few years and then goes down to 40% over two years.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: So there's definitely you when you have governmental support, I feel that's the first stage in in helping things kind of reform.
59:33
SPEAKER_02: Because there's been a relatively closed uh economy in terms of whiskey demand because it was just prohibitive to spend money on single malt whiskey when it's 150% more than let's say local Indian whiskey.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: When you now bring that down to 75% or 50% import 2D, but the quality I would argue is higher in Scotch versus Indian whiskey, it makes that shift more palatable, right?
59:58
SPEAKER_02: You're you're willing to try some of those Scotch whiskeys.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: You go, okay, I'll pay a little more because I'm getting something a little bit more.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna pay, you know, two and a half times more just to just to drink something a little bit more.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_02: So we're only just beginning to see the effects of that.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_02: That's actually why I'm heading to India to kind of try to understand a bit more.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think similar to yourself, right?
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: You you gotta be you gotta go if you really want to learn, right?
1:00:23
SPEAKER_02: You gotta go firsthand and see what's going on and understand what the opportunities are.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's from the whiskey only perspective.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: I I I think you know, the challenge here is really uh not about that there isn't a market for it or you know, or it's not a strong enough market.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's more of like the knowledge.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are lack of the knowledge of like, you know, even if I'm convinced, how do I start?
1:00:44
SPEAKER_00: Where do I start?
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's that's I think you know, you come come in timely, you know.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: We had this conversation before this podcast about you know how we can try to work together and bring back you know the expertise and education for our members so that you know there is another um um angle, another options for them, right?
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, so like let's go there.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_02: So if you were, let's say personally looking to invest in whiskey, what would you want to know that you don't know right now?
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: You can ask me anything.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: What would you want to know?
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: I I guess I I mean on behalf of everybody, I'll ask, you know, I guess the very, very basic questions, right?
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I understand it's always about demand and supply.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Yep, right?
1:01:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, supply, I mean, demand side, you know, um, you know, I know it's a growing population.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: Some some countries that you have aging populations, but in general, you know, it's it's it's it's it's okay, it's it's growing.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: So now now on the on the supply side is the part I guess a lot of people do not really understand, right?
1:01:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I guess on the supply side, it's it's important to understand that obviously there's whiskey made all over the world, but when we're talking about investing in whiskey, for us at least, we're really only talking about Scotland, right?
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: You could talk about Scotland and Japan, but let's being honest, Japanese whiskey has gone up a lot in the last 10 years, so we don't see a lot of upside potential because the prices have already reached quite a high level.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: So when we talk about investing in whiskey, it is about basic supply-demand economics, right?
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: And the supply of whiskey is limited in Scotland because there's only 120 distilleries that there are in Scotland.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_02: And Scotland has always been, and Scotch has has always been the you know the premium whiskey, especially when you look at markets like China, India, now Middle East.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of growth and opportunities there.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_02: We are hit by things like US tariffs.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_02: So Donald Trump uh put a 25% tariff on Scotch coming into the US, which he did in his first term as well.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_02: That's definitely having an impact on American demand at the moment.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we hope that's relatively short term, and and you know, we'll see what happens there.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_02: But hopefully there'll be some changes that will, if they can get rid of that tariff, then you know scotch would you know once again become more popular in the US and you you'd start to see see that rise.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: But the but the supply is really limited by the number of casks that are available, right?
1:03:05
SPEAKER_02: So it all comes down to casks and it all comes down to aging, like what we've tried today, right?
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: We've tried a 25-year-old, a 28-year-old, we've tried a 10-year-old.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_02: You can't make a 28-year-old whiskey today.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this was started 28 years ago, and we bottled that um last year.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_02: So uh it technically started 29 years ago.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: So it comes down to that aging process and investing in a whole barrel or a whole cask of whiskey, you're investing in time.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how I think about it, which I think there's a little bit of beauty in this world today where everything is about instant gratification, right?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_02: It's like you know, we're waiting for the lift and we're checking our email, and if it doesn't load fast enough, we're upset.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, this is all the this is whisky investing in whiskey is about patience.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_02: You need to have a three to five year horizon.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_02: You need to, you know, buy a whole cask and and and yeah, invest in that that whole process.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_02: So that's at least how how we look at it.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess um, you know, that's that that's uh, you know, I guess one of the most uh best basic questions people will ask, and two is uh you know, if I were to start, you know, what what sort of investment amount is needed?
1:04:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_02: And obviously you can kind of start anywhere.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_02: Like we have clients starting as low as you know five to ten thousand pounds, right?
1:04:22
SPEAKER_02: Five to ten thousand pounds would get you started.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, are you gonna make millions on five to ten thousand pounds?
1:04:28
SPEAKER_02: You're definitely not, right?
1:04:29
SPEAKER_02: So generally we advise our clients probably looking at somewhere in the let's say 25 to 50,000 pounds mark, so 250,000, you know, 500,000 pounds Hong Kong.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a much more reasonable number to start at.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_02: So uh I think for a lot of high net worth individuals, that's a reasonable amount to you know diversify.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_02: And again, nobody's saying put all your money in whiskey, right?
1:04:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you have your portfolio, you have your equities, you have your property, maybe you have some crypto, etc.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_02: It's more about having that diversification and you know having those alternatives.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: And what sort of returns um you know can we expect?
1:05:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good question.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: So traditionally speaking, and looking at at the market, we're looking at 15 to 17 percent IRR.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_02: So I I as you know, I ran uh a private equity fund from 2014 to 2021.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_02: We raised 12 million US, we exited at 26 million US, so we delivered 17% IRR gross IRR over a uh what's seven years, seven years.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: 17% per year over seven years.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: So okay.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we did exits kind of along the way.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: So actually, I think what's interesting, and um, you know, I'll be sharing this more with you kind of after the podcast, is we think this is that there's an interesting opportunity.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: It's all about market timing, right?
1:05:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know if you agree.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: I think real estate's about market timing a lot.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: I think whiskey's not that different.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: So we've seen a a huge rise in whiskey 2014 to kind of 2022.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_02: And then in the last two years, actually, prices have come.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: Off quite a bit.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, there was a delay from the pandemic, a few other factors, the US tariffs, etc.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_02: So we've actually seen prices come off about 30% from their high two years ago.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_02: But now things are starting to kind of bottom out, and we're seeing things kind of stabilize a little bit.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, supply has been cut back, which is what happens.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_02: And this is the same cycle we've seen, you know, over generations, over the last hundreds and hundreds of years.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_02: So we believe, having done this now for 15 years, that we're now in that next cycle where okay, we're we're not gonna time the exact bottom of the market, but we're pretty close to where it is.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_02: And if you have the opportunity to buy low and sell high at the simplest, you know, uh investment uh level, that's that's what this is all about, right?
1:06:47
SPEAKER_02: So that's what we're going for.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much for joining the podcast today.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_02: I really learned a lot.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought it was really fantastic having you here as a guest.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've tasted four whiskeys.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_02: I learned a lot about Asia Bankers Club and really congratulations on all this success over the last 12, 13 years um that you've had.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_02: I guess one last question.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_02: What are you personally or professionally most excited about in the next 12 months?
1:07:17
SPEAKER_02: What's one thing that you are really looking forward to?
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, to be honest, oh, I think you're gonna laugh at me.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_02: No more, no more camel's milk.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that's it.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, honestly, I I I I have uh something uh I really want to do for the club over the next 12 months.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_00: Something that has never been done before.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: I I want to bring this club to the next level.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, uh I think I think over the last more than 10 years, you know, we we have focused a lot on investments and investments and investments, right?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: Of course, a lot of real estates, you know.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: It's something that we will continue to do, but I want to do more than than those just investments, right?
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because like I just said, wellness is important, right?
1:08:01
SPEAKER_00: Wellness is not just about your longevity, but it's also about your happiness as well.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_00: I I'm reaching 50 years old, right?
1:08:09
SPEAKER_00: Right, but my my my my twins, they are just 15 months now, right?
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_00: So I I I look at things a bit more different now.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_00: So I want to inject more fun to the club.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_00: So I I want to have lots of uh other crazy activities that we've never done before.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_02: Like what?
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: What's one thing you hope in the next video?
1:08:28
SPEAKER_00: It can be as crazy as it can be a some dating event, I don't know.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: Anything, right?
1:08:34
SPEAKER_00: Some any crazy stuff, right?
1:08:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_00: So um, so I just I just want our members to, you know, if you're watching this video, yeah, just you know, um, watch out for the next 12 months.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: It's something that, you know, I'm I'm so fired up to do.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_00: Great.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_00: It's something, you know, the fire was there 13 years ago when I started, and now I want to put it back again.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: This is like the next, the next, uh, the next era of Asia packages.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited and I hope we can do some of those fun things together.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be great.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for your time.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_02: I think we learned a lot.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_02: We covered you know what's happening in the Middle East.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_02: We talked about ups and downs in the property market and and where some of the opportunities are.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_02: We learned a lot about your entrepreneurial journey, some of the pivots you had to make, some of the debts you had to take on in the early days, which we're glad are way behind you.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_02: And really so amazing to see some of the success you have now.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, could you ever have imagined 13 years ago that someone like Lawrence Ho would invest in your business?
1:09:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, that would have been a dream beyond dreams, right?
1:09:33
SPEAKER_02: So, really, I hope you're you're you're proud of uh of everything you're accomplished.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_02: So I think all 110,000 members, thank you for creating something new, and we thank you for spending your time with us today.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think uh thank you, thank you for for your for you, you know, for for all the support all these years, and you know, to all the members uh you know with us for so long.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean really thank them for that.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe I just leave one one final note for the audience.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh really, I think uh, you know, uh if anyone ever thinking about setting up, you know, jumping out, doing your own business, you know, I I I do strongly recommend that.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: It's it's me too.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: It's all joy.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: It's very old joy, it's a very it's a very, very scary move.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_00: I still remember 13, 14 years ago when I was doing this, you know, it was so scary, you know.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: And then uh, you know, like you say, do did I ever thought about giving up?
1:10:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh of course, I can't say no.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: But then I persist on and said, no, we're not giving up.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: I would I just think of it like, you know, you're gonna, I know this is tough, you know.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: I was crying, you know, at sometimes you know you're just there you know, taking a shower and you're crying for no reason.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is the end of it, right?
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: And then I keep telling myself one thing.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, remember when you're dating, when you're dating someone, like you know, that that moment is like you know the happiest time, and then time will go by, you get married, and then you you you can only look back for that special moment, right?
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: I'll keep telling myself that you know time will pass that you look back and then you miss that moment.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: Because back after after when when when you move on, hopefully you survive, of course.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_00: Then you look back, you'll say, you'll be laughing at yourself, why you were so worried about that.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, that was the fun part, the most fun part.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_00: I still remember when I was in the company, I was the first person, the first person I interviewed, I was holding a broom when she came in for the interview.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_00: She was early, right?
1:11:18
SPEAKER_00: I was like wearing my shorts, I was like mopping, you know, and she left the interview, right?
1:11:23
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, there are so many fun things that happen, right?
1:11:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's hard to appreciate in that moment, but I think your point is that's what you need to do.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_00: But having said that, you have to find the right place to do it.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, it's not in Hong Kong.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_00: I know I'm in Hong Kong.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the the the market is actually it's tough here.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_00: The booming market now is in the Middle East.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: This is what's happening, you know.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_02: I think people need to be more aware of it.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's amazing.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_02: It's not only Dubai, people think Middle East they only think Dubai, but things beyond.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: Think about Saudi, think about the new opportunities that are around the world.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_02: So I'm heading to India next week, I'm going to Pune, I'm going to Bombay, Delhi.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_02: I think there's new opportunities there as well.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_00: Just like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it's all about China.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_00: No, it'd be crazy enough you don't have a China strategy, right?
1:12:13
SPEAKER_00: Right now, the next 20 years is Middle East.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, how can you not have a Middle East strategy?
1:12:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's you know.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_00: So be an entrepreneur, but find the right place to be find the right place to be an entrepreneur.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_02: A good way to end that.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, as always, the whiskey's never done, and neither is the conversation.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure we could have talked about a lot more, and hopefully, we'll have you back to talk about it again soon.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, Rikesh here, the whiskey chief.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_02: Firstly, thanks so much for for watching this episode.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_02: It really means a lot to us.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_02: If you can like and subscribe below, it just really helps us to keep bringing you the best whiskeys in the world.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_02: Salange, and I'll talk to you soon.