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The Cardinals Are Boring · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
What's up everybody, we're back. That's right, we're back.
0:03
It's low hanging fruit episode. I don't know, 1618 something
0:07
like that. We will check.
0:08
I am Charlie Marlow. That is the great Brendan
0:12
Schaefer. Brendan, how are you man?
0:14
I've I've missed you. I was on vacation last week and
0:17
I really missed doing this podcast.
0:20
You did, you missed it. We are back.
0:22
I felt like you were ducking me. Although you did tell me in
0:24
advance that you were going to be out of town.
0:26
So I hope you had fun on your trip.
0:27
But I don't know, it's like you didn't miss all that much while
0:31
you were gone and you kind of sort of did.
0:33
The Cardinals are still in the same place, it feels like
0:36
perpetually this purgatory, right?
0:38
A little bit below 500. But I don't know.
0:41
Some interesting things are happening.
0:42
So I think we'll have plenty to talk about today.
0:44
For sure. Let's start with the most recent
0:48
because Sunny Gray last night didn't pitch great.
0:52
I know you were there in the post game because I heard some
0:55
of your questions. I posted that audio and Sonny
0:59
Grace had a little bit of a potty word.
1:01
It was just the S word. It's OK.
1:04
I'm really trying not to swear on YouTube because some of my
1:07
other videos I've lost ad revenue.
1:11
Really. We're.
1:11
Swearing a little bit. So I'm not, I'm not going to.
1:14
Swear they have told you like YouTube does its little AI thing
1:17
and they're like no you said a bad word, can't do that.
1:19
It says limited ad suitability. So Sonny Grace said the S word
1:26
and then we bring this up because I just think he was kind
1:28
of testy there. You know, a lot of questions.
1:31
He just kind of said, I don't know.
1:32
I don't know. He was clearly, he was clearly
1:35
pissed at his performance. I don't think he was pissed at
1:37
you guys. I think he was just pissed at
1:39
his performance. And because I'm not down there.
1:41
What was that? The testiest you've seen Sonny
1:44
Gray so far? Oh, without a doubt.
1:46
I mean, Tessiest I've seen now I've heard, you know, maybe on
1:49
the road he might have said this or that, but this was the first
1:52
time that to me, Well, maybe not because he's had some some blow
1:57
up games, some games that are uncharacteristic.
1:59
But this was like what bothers him more than anything is
2:02
walking guys giving away free passes and he gave away three in
2:06
the 5th inning last night, which basically tanked his outing.
2:09
There's also an inning where he had a couple of wild pitches,
2:11
couple of stolen bases against him.
2:13
So like, when it when it's walks, it's not just he's
2:16
getting hit because he really didn't get hit very hard last
2:18
night. He kind of did it to himself by
2:20
walking guys. I think that is what was so
2:22
frustrating. And it's coming on the heels of
2:24
a stretch where it's been more of a trend, as he said, I'm
2:27
trending in the wrong direction. And I got to come up with a plan
2:29
to get it fixed and to, you know, to turn things around
2:32
here. So I think just the culmination
2:34
of the recent skid for him. Like at this point, I think it
2:36
is fair to say skid because he's had, you know, a couple bad ones
2:39
mixed in with a couple of fine ones where he's gotten away
2:41
with, you know, maybe not being at his sharpest.
2:44
And last night was one where for the first time this year, he
2:47
didn't get through five innings. Even when he was on a really
2:49
limited pitch count to begin the season, coming off of the
2:52
injured list, he still got through five or six innings and
2:54
those starts. So I think he's a guy that takes
2:57
a lot of pride in being able to go deep in games.
2:59
He even said, who cares? I struck out four in a row at
3:02
one point. That's not the job of a starting
3:03
pitcher. Starting pitcher's job is to get
3:05
deeper into games and stay in there as long as you can.
3:08
And he didn't do that. And he knows he didn't do that.
3:10
And I think part of the the testing is was that he's sort of
3:13
at a loss for how explain what's going on.
3:15
Maybe there are some things that he held back and would be better
3:18
suited for internal conversations.
3:20
I think maybe he and the catchers might have a
3:21
conversation about stylistically what he wants to do approach
3:24
wise moving forward. That could be maybe a little bit
3:27
different than what he did last night or what he's been doing on
3:30
this recent stretch. But I think largely it's just he
3:32
doesn't really know the answers. And so he said, if I knew I'd
3:35
tell you. I just think there is a part of
3:37
him that doesn't exactly know why things are off the rails as
3:40
much as they've been recently. He started out looking like a Cy
3:43
Young candidate over the 1st six starts he had and then over this
3:46
recent stretch it's been kind of the other direction and and he's
3:49
sort of at a loss for how to explain it.
3:51
Yeah, OK. He mentioned the trend that it's
3:54
trending poorly. You mentioned the trend.
3:57
So just so just so folks know, I'm just looking at, so Earn
4:00
runs aloud, as you said, his first, let's say five starts and
4:06
he was limited early on there, but we're talking 0 earned run
4:09
0210 and then if you go back to May 9th that start.
4:15
At the Brewer? Yep.
4:17
So we're talking 6 earned the next outing against the Angels,
4:21
five earned. Now he's got A1A zero, so some
4:25
some good ones there. But then four earned runs, three
4:28
earned runs in his last couple of outings.
4:33
And I think, I think big picture, look, I still think
4:36
Sonny Gray is a very, very good pitcher.
4:38
Obviously, I think it was a very good contract.
4:40
I think it's going to be a very good contract.
4:43
You know, we have, I think it's kind of a silly argument, like
4:46
is he an ace? Is he an ace?
4:48
You know, he's he's the Cardinals ace.
4:50
And and no matter what, I still feel confident rolling out Sonny
4:55
Gray for game one or game two, but game one for the Cardinals
5:00
of a playoff series. And I don't really feel that
5:03
comfortable about many other folks or any.
5:06
I mean, Lance Lynn's been good for the Cardinals.
5:10
So I don't know. I don't think this is gonna
5:12
continue for Sonny Gray. I'm not worried about Sonny
5:14
Gray, I guess, is what I'm saying.
5:16
I mean, I'm not worried about him, but I think it there is
5:19
something to be said for with this Cardinals team.
5:22
There are areas of the club that are lagging behind still runners
5:25
in scoring position. They haven't not been able to
5:27
come up with the the key hits very often and like it's
5:30
frustrating when you are getting guys on base.
5:32
They had eight hits last night and they had six walks.
5:35
That's fourteen guys that you have a chance to plate and 11 of
5:38
them get left on base. And I think one he raised on a
5:41
double play. So they are not coming through
5:43
in those clutch situations. And when you add that to maybe a
5:46
little bit of lackluster defense by guys you don't expect to be
5:49
that bad, like Arnatos been last in the league and defensive runs
5:53
saved at third base. Like he's he's not had a good
5:55
start defensively. And obviously we know about his
5:57
struggles offensively, but there are just little areas you can
6:00
look at. They've only got the three
6:01
relievers that you really trust. And if those guys aren't
6:03
available, what do you do? All these little aspects of the
6:06
team that kind of shrink the margin for error because you
6:10
don't have those things firing on all cylinders.
6:13
So when that's the case, these these new things that are
6:16
suddenly popping up like, oh, Sonny Gray isn't automatic.
6:19
You shine a little bit more of a light on that because you had
6:22
come to expect that. Well, at least every fifth day,
6:24
you're basically guaranteed a very good chance to win.
6:27
And now it's like, well, there are going to be some starts
6:29
where that's not necessarily the case.
6:31
They still should have won last night because the bullpen shut
6:34
it down and they only allowed three runs.
6:35
This Cardinal offense needs to score four more runs every game.
6:38
And if they don't, they, you know, they're putting themselves
6:40
in a position to lose. So it's just a matter of with
6:43
Sonny Gray, he's not going to maybe carry the load to a
6:46
superhuman level the way that he did in this first month and a
6:49
half. And that's a reasonable thing.
6:51
Guys are going to be human and going to go through tough
6:53
stretches. But when the Cardinals were
6:56
losing and they still have a losing record, it was like,
6:58
well, at least you have Sunny. You know, every fifth day you're
7:00
going to have sunny. Now it's kind of like, all
7:02
right, he he might be human too, after all.
7:04
And and that's just another kind of tick mark of where does this
7:07
team find its momentum to get above 500?
7:10
If the things that were the ultimate strengths are now just
7:13
like, yeah, pretty good. For sure.
7:15
And I just want to clarify when I was talking about playoff
7:18
starts, I I don't hate it. I don't hate it if if Lance Lynn
7:22
or Kyle Gibson got a playoff start.
7:24
I would just prefer. I hate it for Kyle Gibson.
7:28
That's been your whole argument on Gibby for me.
7:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you said comment like
7:34
before the season even began, your thought was I picture him
7:37
giving up those four bombs in a row and I can't imagine a guy
7:40
like that having. I wouldn't have confidence in
7:42
him Starting a playoff game was kind of your your narrative,
7:45
which now I probably but. Look, no, no, I I probably said
7:50
that I definitely think about the four homers all the time.
7:53
And now I see what the cat is talking about.
7:55
When you deny. When you deny stuff that you.
7:57
Said he's he's full of crap. No what I'm saying is I don't
8:02
mind if Gibby and or Lynn. I just would prefer if they were
8:07
your third and 4th starters in the playoffs.
8:09
That's the game series that would line up.
8:11
That's what I'm saying. They need a number.
8:13
Two, both those guys we can we can talk FIP and all that, but
8:16
both those guys right now have sub four ER as, which is pretty
8:20
Dang good in modern Major League Baseball.
8:23
So you can't complain too much. I'm I'm looking way ahead to
8:27
when the Cardinals potentially would be in the playoffs.
8:29
I would just feel a little bit better, you know, if they were
8:31
to get somebody at the trade deadline that you could just
8:33
maybe slot like, hey, what about bringing back Jack Flaherty?
8:37
How about that? Maybe we talk about that later
8:39
in the program. I'm I'm kind.
8:41
Of joking, yeah. Maybe we'll talk about that in
8:43
the second hour of today's show. How about that?
8:45
OK, I mean, dude, but let's be real, don't you think Jack
8:48
Flaherty is potentially going to be one of the top guys at the
8:51
trade deadline? Well, are the Tigers out of it?
8:54
I mean they're. Kind of, yeah, that's going to
8:56
be the question. That's going to be the question.
8:59
But he's been good, there's no doubt about it.
9:00
And you you can figure that he would be good.
9:02
There's something about the water in Saint Louis.
9:04
I don't know, that change of scenery.
9:06
Guys end up really either having a chip on their shoulder when
9:09
they leave or just finding a different environment to kind of
9:13
give them a different look, different feeling to their
9:15
routine. Whatever it is, Charlie, it does
9:16
seem like a lot of guys go somewhere else and they do well.
9:19
It feels like we've beat that dead horse over and over again.
9:22
But they're keeping new guys that we can say it about.
9:24
And this year it's kind of Jack Flary and and Jordan Hicks in
9:27
terms of the role change from closing pitcher to starting
9:30
pitcher. Two guys that you'd like either
9:33
of them as your #2 right now. If you could just kind of
9:35
transport those numbers into the Saint Louis rotation, you'd
9:38
certainly take that. How about this before we started
9:41
this show? I'll just tell people what
9:44
happened here, OK? You know, I'm clearly the +1 of
9:48
the two of us and you're you're nearly negative.
9:51
That's it. Because because I said, hey, I
9:53
said the Cardinals, they're 1/2 game out of the wild card.
9:57
Now I said that half jokingly and you go, yeah, but they're
10:01
1/2 game out of last place in the division.
10:04
How about that? I mean, the glass.
10:06
Look, my my Christmas mug. I have a Christmas mug.
10:09
My Christmas mug is half full. I think you think your can of
10:13
pop there's half empty. This is a spin drift I think.
10:16
Sparkling water. Not a sponsor but should be.
10:18
This stuff is. Whatever the hell it is.
10:20
It's good. Why are you my?
10:21
Question Why? Why are you such a negative
10:24
hater? No, I'm not hating on the
10:25
Cardinals. I just think we've been in this
10:27
purgatory covering this team where it's like they get up to
10:30
500 and then they slink down a couple of games and they're not
10:34
as bad as they were last year. I don't think they're at risk
10:36
of. I mean, I guess the bottom could
10:38
still drop out of the season and and it feels like maybe you run
10:42
out of gas just as you're about to climb the mountaintop and
10:44
they go on another seven game losing streak and suddenly 71
10:47
and 91 is back in play. I just don't think that's what's
10:50
going to happen with this team. But they're also not showing
10:54
very many signs of imminently going to take that run and get
10:57
to 5 or 10 games above 500 like the Brewers are right now.
11:00
And I look at a team like the Reds who have won five straight
11:03
and I know that they've got a lot of young talent and some
11:05
guys on the injured list that could be coming back at some
11:07
point. And I'm thinking they're a team
11:08
that has some some vibes to them, some positive momentum.
11:12
And the Pirates, I mean, they bring up Paul Skeens.
11:14
They've got, you know, young players like O'Neill Cruz, like
11:17
they I don't know. It's not to say the Cardinals
11:19
don't like Mason Wynn has been a revelation.
11:21
He's been everything you could have possibly hoped for his age
11:24
22 season right here. But it just seems like some of
11:27
those other teams, you could, you could see the glint in their
11:30
eye a little bit that they might be able to go on a run and pass
11:32
the Cardinals. And I don't know, we're, we're
11:34
still kind of waiting. We, we feel like that's in there
11:37
on this roster. Maybe some fans don't feel like
11:39
that's in there for this team. But that notion that we've had
11:41
all along, Charlie, if you get to 2-3 games above 500, you get
11:45
to July and you, you make a move or two that suddenly gets you
11:48
going. This Cardinal team could be
11:50
right where it needs to be 8586 wins.
11:52
But they almost got to get up to that status quo of a 500 record
11:57
and maybe a game or two above before you really can envision
12:00
them buying the way a buyer would that actually wants to
12:03
value 2024 and what happens in this season.
12:07
Before I get to my next hard hitting topic, did you
12:09
strategically place those hats behind you?
12:11
Yeah, they'd show up. The Cardinals hat is cool.
12:14
I know you mentioned. The rope hat.
12:15
So what's the other one about that?
12:17
It's a Mizzou. It's a Mizzou hat.
12:18
It's got the columns on it. I can't move my F and head.
12:21
There we go. It's it's, it's hard to tell,
12:23
but it's got the columns. It's actually got the wrong
12:25
number of columns. It was kind of a misprint.
12:27
I don't know what happened there, but I got it for 5 bucks
12:29
on clearance. Anyway, The, the green one is
12:32
the whole thing is like, I don't wear Cardinals hats.
12:34
I don't wear Cardinals gear. I'm not a Cardinals fan, right?
12:36
I'm a writer. I'm objective and it's true.
12:38
It's not like I'm phony about that.
12:41
Hold on. I used to be a big Cardinal fan
12:42
and now it's not the way I view the lens anymore.
12:45
It's a different hold on, go ahead.
12:46
But but so you were always a Cardinals fan.
12:50
So are you telling me, are you telling me you stopped being a
12:53
Cardinals fan the second you started covering the team?
12:56
I would say that, and people don't care about this, but since
12:59
you asked, well, in 20, in 2016, my first exposure to like a
13:04
professional environment was covering the Blues for like a
13:07
radio station in Washington, MO I'd write some stories for their
13:11
website. I wasn't getting paid, but it
13:13
was a foot in the door. And I was like, yeah, sure, I'll
13:15
go to the Blues press box. Didn't grow up a huge hockey
13:18
fan, though. So when I would get in that
13:19
locker room, it wasn't like as overwhelming as it would have
13:23
been if you had just plopped me into the Cardinals locker room
13:27
at that point in time. But I got a few months of Blues
13:29
stuff under my belt. And then I got brought on at 590
13:32
the first time. And I was a board operator doing
13:35
shows. But I asked them if I could
13:37
cover Cardinals for their website, and they said as long
13:40
as nobody else wants the credential for that given
13:42
series, you're good. And so that summer of 2016, I
13:46
did cover a lot of, but by then I was already integrated a
13:48
little bit. I understood how to conduct
13:50
myself kind of sort of and just, you know, not do anything
13:53
foolish. I probably did.
13:55
But by then it was like, it was overwhelming to see like Matt
13:58
Holiday. I remember walking through the
13:59
tunnel, I was like, Jesus, that's Matt Holiday.
14:02
And so like, there was a little bit of that at first, but I
14:05
don't know, it very quickly turned to me going, OK, what's
14:07
the angle to write about? Or what's the angle to, once I
14:10
started a podcast, what's the angle to talk about?
14:12
And it just, it kind of rewired my brain to where do I want the
14:16
Cardinals to win and do well? I absolutely do.
14:18
I think, you know, I think long term it would be good for both
14:21
of our business if they make the playoffs and had a long October
14:24
run. I think YouTube would pop off.
14:26
I think podcasts would go well, but also like when they lose in
14:30
devastating fashion that no longer ruins my day like it did
14:33
when I was a kid or in high school or early in college.
14:35
It doesn't ruin my day anymore. You kind of you kind of go, all
14:38
right, I'm scheming. How do I talk about this?
14:40
How do I present this for the Cardinals fans whose day it did
14:43
ruin? So it's not that I'm being
14:44
disingenuous. It just really has rewired my
14:46
brain to view it from a different perspective.
14:49
And Charlie, you know this because you've covered it.
14:51
You get almost too close to it to really be upset about what
14:56
the grown men are doing that you also get a chance to kind of
14:58
talk to and pick their brains at times.
15:00
So it's not like the it's not like the laundry, the Cardinals
15:04
jersey. It's just, you know, it doesn't.
15:06
It's something that doesn't mean as much, but you don't, It
15:08
doesn't ruin your day when you also go, OK, I can go ask the
15:12
guy, hey, what the hell happened here?
15:13
And then he'll either tell you or not tell you.
15:15
But that's just a different perspective on it that has
15:18
rewired my brain is the the way to put it.
15:20
But yeah, I want him to win because it's good for business
15:22
and it's still fun. Like you want the local team to
15:24
do well. It's just not like it ruins my
15:26
day when they don't is the way I would describe it now.
15:29
Yeah, I'd also say just as I think, I think as most people
15:32
get older, your fandom also decreases.
15:37
And I'm not saying you have to be married and have kids and all
15:39
that, but you have a job and all that.
15:42
And then when you're a kid, you know, you love these teams.
15:44
And I think as you get older, look, you're, you're still a
15:46
fan. My my fandom for really all my
15:49
teams has really lessened. Over the years, because I was
15:52
going to push back on it like Mizzou football, I couldn't be
15:54
more into it. I it can ruin the hell out of my
15:57
whole weekend if they lose the game that, you know, devastating
16:00
or whatever. That can still happen to me, but
16:02
I've just had that bled out from the other sports.
16:04
The Rams left town. I was die hard.
16:06
Don't care anymore about that Cardinals.
16:08
I've explained it. Mizzou, though, is kind of the
16:10
one thing I have left and I do. It'll still ruin my day.
16:13
So maybe that makes me a, you know, an almost 30 year old
16:16
fanboy, but don't care. It's I'm I'm all about it.
16:19
Yeah, growing up, I was a huge Detroit Pistons fan and Ohio
16:23
State football fan. And I'll, and I'll be honest
16:25
because I love that 2004 Pistons run and that team was really
16:28
good for about 5-6 years, but I've stayed an Ohio State
16:32
football fan. They've been great.
16:35
I've really stopped caring about the Pistons because they've been
16:39
freaking horrible the last 15 years or so.
16:42
But I, you, you joked at first saying nobody cares about this,
16:45
but I, I do, because I think the, the larger conversation
16:49
that I do find very interesting about this Cardinals team is the
16:53
fact that I think they're very uninteresting.
16:56
And I could show a graph also, it is funny we keep talking
17:00
about YouTube, but I could show a graph of like 2 weeks ago,
17:03
about 17 days ago, whatever it was when the Cardinals started
17:06
winning, people stopped consuming the videos as much.
17:10
And by the way, I'm, I try not to be super negative.
17:16
I was on vacation last week. So I'm getting back into really
17:19
watching the games on a full time basis this week.
17:22
But I find this team very uninteresting, very boring.
17:28
Now I know MM Schult, remember Mike Schult was very mad that
17:31
people called the team boring several years ago.
17:34
He said I heard on the radio that somebody they take it
17:36
personal, this team boring. You know, we played, we cleaned
17:39
up the baseball. Remember, that was kind of the
17:40
deal where it might have been the day that the cup was at was
17:44
at the we've talked about those in 19.
17:47
It might have been that day, but you could tell he was pissed.
17:50
Hey, you guys complained about the base running.
17:52
You complained about the sloppy defense during Matheny.
17:55
We cleaned all that up. Now you think we're boring.
17:58
So again, that was just a tangent, but I just don't find
18:02
this team very captivating at all for for many reasons.
18:07
I do think they're boring. I think they're very mediocre.
18:11
Until they prove me wrong again. I'm glad that they don't suck.
18:14
I didn't want them to suck like last year.
18:17
Last year was was an outlier and it was so crazy and filled with
18:21
drama that for people that talk about baseball, it was
18:24
interesting. But then the last two months of
18:26
the season absolutely sucked after the trade deadline because
18:30
there was nothing to look forward to except for seeing
18:33
Mason wins cup of coffee in the big leagues, basically.
18:37
But I don't know, man. And I think it's not just me.
18:40
I think it's Cardinal fans. I think it's the consumption of
18:42
Cardinal's content. Last night, Cam Janson and I are
18:47
are sitting at an event and we're sitting at a restaurant.
18:49
Afterwards, looking good in your cold sport jacket I saw.
18:52
Thank you. So you got the NBA Finals up
18:54
there, Celtics rolled, you got you got the Cardinals.
18:58
The Cardinals are losing to the Rockies.
19:00
And I'm just like, I do think the Cardinals are in a spot
19:03
where they have to kind of prove to fans that they're worthy of
19:08
of nightly the attention that Cardinals fans usually give.
19:13
Like back in the day when it was passionate 4045 thousand fans
19:18
like we're into this team. I don't know, man, you're at the
19:20
park a lot. I'm not.
19:22
It doesn't feel like the fan base is is very locked into this
19:26
team. Yeah, and like, I think last
19:29
night they announced 33K or so. And I used to remember, like
19:33
when I first started covering the Cardinals was 2016, and that
19:36
was kind of the first year of a decline because they won 100
19:39
games in 15 but lost to the Cubs in the playoffs.
19:42
I remember the end of, Yeah, the end of that 2016 season, though,
19:45
was the first time I started to be like, hey, the, the emptiness
19:48
of the crowds. I think the first story I ever
19:50
wrote for KMLV, because I signed on like September, late
19:53
September of that year to start covering Blues in the fall was
19:56
about like the lack of fans at the end of that 16 season.
20:00
It was just not something that we were used to seeing.
20:03
And now it's commonplace. They're not like trying to fudge
20:06
the numbers to get above 40. For the longest time, it was
20:08
like, don't dip below 40K. Now it's like they're going to
20:11
have to do some arithmetic to be like, yeah, we got 30,000.
20:15
And and I get it, it's tickets sold, so they don't really have
20:17
a problem with that. A lot of it's sold ahead of
20:19
time. But if you look at buds and
20:20
seats, it's just not very upper deck is usually pretty sparse.
20:25
And I think that's also bled over now into like you said,
20:29
with people like in the content or or watching on TV or radio or
20:34
whatever, the whatever way you consume.
20:36
I do feel like that's been a little bit of a trend.
20:38
It is interesting though, like you said, when they started
20:41
winning is when it's sort of curtailed.
20:43
I think people were into the winning streak, but then once it
20:45
ended, then they've kind of ping pong back and forth.
20:48
And again, nobody cares about this.
20:50
And comment below if you can explain what you want to see in
20:53
Cardinals content during a period where they're just kind
20:55
of hovering. But it's been, I mean, it has
20:58
been more brutal within the last week or so of people just kind
21:00
of checking out, which I can't judge anybody for doing it.
21:03
I still think in you're a nice position.
21:05
We have to continue putting stuff out there because there
21:08
could be a time where something interesting does happen and it
21:10
kind of ropes people back in, but it feels like everybody's
21:13
kind of collectively taking a little bit of a yeah.
21:15
This is maybe not my highest priority in life right now, sort
21:19
of breather on the Cardinals until, like you said, they give
21:22
the team, gives people a reason to kind of buy back in.
21:25
Yeah. And I think a big part of that
21:27
was how horrible the start was this year because, look, the
21:32
Cardinals were playing good baseball.
21:34
And you could even make the argument that, you know, you
21:37
play some, some good teams, Phillies, Astros, it, it wasn't
21:41
like they were dominated in those in those series.
21:43
They, they got a game in each one of those series.
21:46
But I think it was more about this because let's say the
21:49
Cardinals would not have started out the season so poorly.
21:52
So let's say the first month or so they're around 500, you're
21:56
saying, OK, all right, hey, they're 5000.
21:58
Boom. All of a sudden they go on that
22:00
two 2 1/2 week stretch where now they're seven games over.
22:04
OK. Now you're starting to buy in,
22:07
but I think what we saw and was there low point was it 9 games
22:10
under, is that right? OK.
22:12
Because then they went 12:00 and 3:00 to get right back to even.
22:16
OK, so I think what happened was when the Cardinals fell nine
22:20
games back, people were like, uh oh, this is this is 2023 all
22:24
over again. And we all kind of wondered that
22:26
it didn't happen. It doesn't look like it's going
22:28
to be 2023 all over again. And give Ollie and give the
22:32
players credit for for battling back.
22:35
But I think it's hard when the 1st 40 days of the season, you
22:39
dug yourself a huge hole and now you're asking people get excited
22:45
about hey, we're. We're.
22:47
Eight games below 500, we're seven games below 500.
22:50
We're six games below. We're five games.
22:52
You know what I'm saying? Like they're they're kind of
22:55
climbing towards mediocrity. They're still not above 500.
23:01
Who knows when they'll get there, if they ever will.
23:03
But I think there's a lot of fans that are like, all right,
23:06
call me when they're 500, I'll start paying attention.
23:10
And then if they go on that two week stretch and all of a sudden
23:13
they're 7-8 games over, I'm right back in.
23:16
Yeah, now you're able to dream on that team and what the
23:19
deadline could look like and what a what a playoff matchup
23:22
could look like and who's our rotation going to be like.
23:24
Right now. It's such a pipe dream to feel
23:26
like that's a real conversation that I think people are a little
23:29
hesitant to kind of get their hopes up or allow this team to
23:33
do it to him again. Because last year it was hey, be
23:37
patient. Mosaic wanted everybody to be
23:39
patient. It was like, well, how are they
23:41
rewarded for that? Patients ultimately was with a
23:43
deadline sell off, which by the time it happened, even the
23:45
people who you know, wanted to be patient said, look, it needs
23:49
to happen. They need to try and reinfuse
23:51
some some younger pieces into the farm system and you just
23:54
play the hand you're dealt at that point.
23:56
But then the final two months were completely written off as a
23:59
result. And then you get into the
24:00
offseason and people wanted, I think some substantial change
24:05
and MO addressed the starting rotation and that was about it.
24:09
And also never really took, and I don't know how much this
24:11
matters, but never really took full accountability in a public
24:15
facing way the way you normally, hey, end of October, middle
24:18
October, whatever. You're going to have a press
24:19
conference and say here's how this the thing went.
24:21
I'll face the music on this season not going well.
24:24
And he didn't do it. And they first described it as,
24:27
oh, we'll do it. We don't have any news to
24:28
announce right now, so we'll do it later on in October maybe,
24:31
you know, after the World Series just never was brought up or
24:34
mentioned again. So it's just that kind of
24:36
messaging and that kind of it feels kind of disingenuous for a
24:39
fanbase that you asked to extend you this courtesy of patience.
24:43
And that's how they were rewarded.
24:44
So when this new season starts and I think people at, you know,
24:47
March 28th, they were willing to buy in.
24:49
You show them something early and they were willing to get
24:51
right back on the horse. But it starts slow.
24:54
And they go, I'm not going to let you string me along for six
24:57
months again. I'm not going to do that with
24:59
with my time and my investment, whether that's money, whether
25:01
that's whatever attention. And so I think that's part of it
25:04
too, that when they went on the run, it's like, OK, keep going.
25:07
And then they kind of step back and now they're hovering ping
25:10
pong in the game or two below 500 and everybody's like, OK, I
25:13
don't hate you. I'm glad you're not, you know,
25:15
at the bottom. But I'm going to wait to see
25:17
more before I really allow myself to believe that this is
25:22
something that that could have some legs when you get to
25:24
September and and and hopefully into October.
25:27
I think people just aren't ready to dive in on that until they
25:30
actually see it. And it's the frustration of some
25:32
of the way they're losing some of these games.
25:34
Like you come into a Rockies Pirates homestand.
25:36
Wouldn't you agree that five almost has to be the minimum for
25:39
you to feel good about it? And they lose game one that's
25:42
sunny grey pitched. It's like, well, what the hell,
25:44
Where where are we going from here?
25:46
It's fair to wonder. You mentioned MO earlier.
25:49
Have you spoken with MO recently?
25:52
I have. I can't think that I have since
25:55
really I'm trying to think if it's been since opening day, but
25:59
in my case I'm doing radio in the afternoon when there are
26:01
these pregame availabilities. Like yesterday he spoke with the
26:04
media, but I'm on the air in the afternoon.
26:06
So that's the reason that I am not typically able to.
26:09
But yeah, probably since opening day I have not.
26:11
So I don't know really what the vibe of those sessions have
26:13
been. No, the reason I asked was,
26:15
again, I was on vacation last week.
26:18
I've said it for the 80th time, but before that, that Saturday,
26:21
which was the Fox game that Adam Wainwright was the broadcaster,
26:26
right? I saw and I posted the the video
26:29
that Martin Kilcoin did. He did a quick, it was like four
26:32
or five minutes with MO and I'm sure he's said similar things to
26:35
other media members. So I wasn't sure, but I was just
26:39
struck for me. So and and people can check this
26:44
out, but the question was from Martin Kilcoin to MO, like what
26:48
is the what is the perfect ending for you with the
26:51
Cardinals? You know, we know you're not
26:52
going to get fired. They kind of chuckled and he's
26:54
not. We all know that, right?
26:55
But so it wasn't like MO brought this up on his own, but I think
27:00
he was very honest. And it's the first time I've
27:03
really heard him kind of talk about potentially moving on.
27:08
And he said things like, I've never had a break or an extended
27:13
vacation or to have a reset. I live in Saint Louis.
27:17
So maybe that's me coming back with a different role with the
27:20
Cardinals. You know, he didn't say I
27:22
definitely want to stay in baseball.
27:23
I don't I don't know if he does. I mean, would he go to another
27:25
organization? But I don't know.
27:28
And maybe I'm reading too much into it.
27:31
But as I watched that clip and then I was texting with Martin
27:33
afterwards to kind of say, hey, is that what I thought I heard?
27:37
And he talked with MO afterwards off, off camera.
27:41
And I go, is that what I thought?
27:42
I mean, it just it felt like some finality, like the man was
27:46
ready to move on. And by the way, that might mean
27:48
truly after 2025. Who knows, maybe they announced
27:51
the successor this winter. But it's the first time for Moe.
27:55
I really kind of felt like he's ready for this to be over.
28:00
Yeah, I think he's ready. I mean, after after the way the
28:03
last year and a half have gone, how could you not be?
28:05
Because when he signed that contract, like this is the first
28:08
time that maybe he's talked about it in more specific terms
28:11
of like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
28:13
But I remember February of 2023 being in Jupiter when he had the
28:17
press conference about the extension and him saying, like,
28:20
this is kind of going to be it. This contract is going to be it.
28:23
And you had to maybe read between the lines to hear it
28:25
from him. But everybody kind of pressed
28:26
like, are you saying, are you saying he's like, well, you
28:28
know, I'm not saying, but I am kind of saying.
28:31
And I think the thought process was, hey, the Cardinals had, you
28:35
know, a couple playoff years in a row.
28:36
Things were things were going to be good.
28:38
They were going to continue to roll in the same direction and
28:41
he would be able to casually hand it off and pass the baton
28:44
and have the legacy intact. And it wasn't going to be this,
28:47
you know, complete S storm that it's been in the last couple of
28:50
years. And then when that didn't go
28:52
well in 2023, it was like, OK, maybe this we got to rethink
28:57
what this is going to look like in terms of how, how hands off
29:00
can I be? Because I, I really felt in
29:02
February 23, it felt like he was acknowledging that by 2025, even
29:07
it could be maybe more of a split responsibilities between
29:10
him and the others in the front office.
29:12
And whether it's Gersh or Flo or whoever.
29:14
Like it felt like it was a baton pass was going to happen in slow
29:17
motion over three years. And then they were awful last
29:20
year and they are bringing in special advisors like Hind
29:24
Bloom. And suddenly you're like, what's
29:26
the structure here? What's the future look like?
29:28
But I think if this year doesn't go well, I mean, could I see him
29:32
kind of stepping into a side role after this year?
29:36
I certainly could see it just because it may be time for a
29:39
fresh voice and a fresh outlook on things.
29:41
Could be the view of maybe build a whip and feel that way.
29:44
But MO himself might even feel that way because it's probably
29:47
not fun to take the shrapnel that he takes on a daily basis.
29:51
And to, I know you just say don't read it, don't look at it,
29:54
don't listen to it. But I think it's kind of
29:56
inevitable your kids are going to hear some of that.
29:58
You're. It's just not a comfortable
29:59
thing. And I think, you know, we should
30:01
remember the humanity of guys like John Mosalak.
30:03
Even if you don't like the job he's doing with your team, there
30:05
is that humanity aspect to it. But yeah, I could absolutely
30:08
see, especially if this doesn't turn around imminently, that it
30:11
might be one of those, Like David Stearns in Milwaukee
30:14
before he went to the Mets, kind of had a year where he said, I'm
30:17
not in charge of this thing anymore.
30:18
I still ain't going to work out my contract in a different role,
30:21
but maybe kind of step into the the periphery a little bit and
30:24
let somebody else try and, you know, get their hands dirty in
30:27
a, in a different way. That feels about right to me,
30:30
Charlie. And I think it could even be
30:31
expedited if they aren't able to turn this one around.
30:34
Yeah, you talk about the humanity and, and I don't look,
30:36
we joke around about stuff on the radio and all that, but I I
30:40
don't, I don't take personal shots, especially guys like John
30:44
Mozeloc. I really like John Mozeloc
30:46
personally. He was always very good to me
30:49
recovered in the team for for 14 years or so.
30:52
But I do think it's a very interesting dynamic because you
30:55
probably thought, as you mentioned, OK, these last three
30:59
years, we're going to kind of kind of roll off into the sunset
31:04
playoff, playoff runs, maybe another deep run, pass it off,
31:08
keep the train rolling. Then they're really bad.
31:12
They're not good this year. I think the bigger, the bigger
31:16
picture is the organization I don't think is in good shape.
31:19
They have no depth at AAA. It's not the team years back
31:24
that could always bring up pitchers, starters, relievers,
31:28
and they got nobody. They have no 5th starter.
31:30
There's nobody that can come up and even give them any type of
31:33
start. I know Palante had one good one,
31:35
but Libetor, I mean Mcgreevy, Graceffa, like what's going on
31:40
with all these guys? So I think the narrative has
31:42
switched to, you know, because John Mozalak could dig in and be
31:46
like, no, I want this last year and a half.
31:49
I'm going to work my balls off to, to turn this thing around.
31:54
And it, it felt more to me like I'm ready to move on.
31:57
I'm tired. And here's the other part.
32:00
I hate to say this, but at this point, because I think the
32:04
organization is really trending poorly now in the standings.
32:09
It just happened last year, but it was a trend for about 5-6
32:13
years. Decisions, trades, drafting
32:17
again, the farm system, how it looks right now.
32:20
I now don't want John Mosalak to to get that opportunity.
32:26
You know what I'm saying? I, I think they should
32:28
transition quicker now. If that's next year, half and
32:31
half, whoever it is, Hein Bloom, I, I, I don't know.
32:34
I'm just saying at this point, if I'm DeWitt, I feel like it's
32:38
time to move on. We need a new voice and even Flo
32:43
Gersh. We like all those guys, but this
32:46
organization needs a big time shake up because we are we are
32:49
not the Cardinals of the last 10 years.
32:52
Look, and I think you and I have a different perspective.
32:54
People are going to hear you going, why are you saying you
32:56
like these guys? Well, we have talked to them,
32:59
right? So they're nice guys, they're
33:00
good dudes. But when you even look at like
33:03
we always we love Flo, but what's been going on with the
33:06
first round pitchers that you draft and none of them are
33:08
really able to materialize. I mean, you could Mcgreevy
33:12
Graceffa was a round two guy who at one point was minor league
33:14
pitcher of the year and you know, has really stalled out at
33:17
AAA. Zach Thompson.
33:19
Like they've tried it. They're handed him.
33:21
They made a key trade for a first rounder, a former first
33:24
rounder and Matthew Liberatore that it looks like he's going to
33:26
be a nice piece for the bullpen, but he hasn't answered the bell
33:29
to be a legit starter for them in the top half of their
33:31
rotation. Like you maybe thought when you
33:33
acquired him that just some of the the the drafting like we
33:36
love that 2020 draft Mason win. We still think Jordan Walker is
33:39
going to be a player. Alec Burleson came from that
33:42
drafting, hence is on his way. Right.
33:43
But outside of that draft, there have not been the major success
33:48
stories in recent years, even like more recently, like Chase
33:51
Davis was their first rounder last year.
33:53
He's kind of piddling around a little bit in the low levels of
33:56
minors. And it's like, is he going to be
33:57
somebody that they ever see make it to the big leagues?
34:00
And it's just you like these guys.
34:02
But also, if you just are evaluating the body of work
34:05
right now by the front office, yes, the downward trend, you
34:08
don't have to squint very hard to see it.
34:10
And I think for the longest time, the Cardinals sort of, you
34:13
know, put put the hand up and deny the existence of it.
34:17
And it's going to be to the point where like, you can't
34:19
looking at the data, pretend that it's not there and pretend
34:23
that there's not some organizational restructure that
34:25
might be needed. I think it'll always be amicable
34:28
when it happens between Bill Lewitt and John Mosalak.
34:31
But like you said, if John Mosalak is kind of going, you
34:34
know, it's been a tough couple few years and maybe the best
34:38
thing for the organization is if I can't fix it this year, I'm
34:40
going to try like hell to do it. Maybe at that point it's I am
34:44
ready and I am ready for something a little bit
34:45
different. And I've done a lot.
34:47
I've done all there is to do in baseball.
34:49
And I might not need to have the ego check of no, I need to
34:52
finish strong too. Otherwise everything that came
34:54
before it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that's the case.
34:56
I think people originally are going to go and it's a bummer
34:59
that it ended the way that it did.
35:00
But I think you can take some distance from it and look back
35:03
and realize that ultimately Mozilla has accomplished a lot
35:06
with the organization. And if this is kind of teetering
35:08
toward the end, it doesn't have to necessarily put a too big of
35:13
a of a dark mark on what he's done.
35:15
And it just could be an amicable thing where Bill DeWitt might
35:18
realize, hey, we need to we need to kind of modernize again.
35:21
I feel like the Cardinals were on the the cutting edge and then
35:24
they suddenly maybe weren't as much anymore.
35:26
And you're looking, especially some of the stuff they're doing
35:28
with pitching in the minor leagues, like you've got to ask
35:30
the question, what is it? Who's in charge of those things
35:33
that are over and over and over again?
35:34
You're not getting the guys developed and having them, you
35:38
know, reach their potential at the majors.
35:39
It's a concern. And it may mean that sweeping
35:42
changes are necessary because some of the practices are either
35:45
outdated or they don't have a lot of logic behind them.
35:48
There are some arguments to be made I think on that.
35:51
You mentioned the 2020 draft where they did have to go
35:55
outside of their comfort zone because of COVID and kind of
35:58
roll the dice, not just kind of they did on a lot of high school
36:01
guys. I know Burleson was a college
36:03
guy, but Tink Mason, Wynn, Jordan Walker.
36:08
So it was the one draft where they're kind of forced to do,
36:11
let's say non cardinal things, be creative, right?
36:14
That's not totally fair because I do think Randy Flores
36:18
transitioned away from the the whole model of college pitcher
36:22
for a while, which really helped the Cardinals like the
36:25
Lancelin's of the world and the Walkers of the world.
36:27
Then they kind of transition to the the high profile position
36:31
players and you've seen the Nolan Gorman's and we'll see
36:34
what happens with Jordan Walker. But see, you said you think
36:38
Jordan Walker's still going to be a player.
36:39
And, and I would think, look, I think, wow, you're typing very
36:44
hard. Sorry, golly, I didn't know it
36:46
was so loud. I was looking up some draft.
36:48
I want to look at some draft classes while you were talking
36:50
go. Ahead and I like that no, but so
36:54
Jordan Walker look, I still think Jordan Walker is going to
36:57
be a big league player. I would still think he's going
36:59
to be a big league starter. But is it is it fair to wonder?
37:03
And he's still very, very young. Don't get me wrong some of these
37:06
guys at age 22 season, you're not even in the big leagues.
37:09
But we're now talking about after hitting $1.55 with the
37:13
Cardinals in 30 games in Memphis, hitting 260 on base,
37:18
three O 3. So, so not a great OBP.
37:22
He's slugging 390. That's OK.
37:24
He has one home run. He has nine double s.
37:28
That's not a guy you call up. If his name isn't Jordan Walker,
37:32
that's not a guy you call up. I mean, I, I, I just wondered
37:36
because if you go back, we probably all said, oh, dude,
37:41
Dylan Carlson's going to be a dude.
37:43
I mean, and, and think about it, weren't Dylan Carlson's numbers
37:46
kind of like the numbers that Jordan Walker put up?
37:49
Didn't Dylan Carlson have that one season of about 18 homers or
37:52
something? He had a 787 OPSI mean he was
37:55
really good for a year. Right.
37:57
And that's funny you say that because, because was it 787?
38:01
Because Walker's was 787 last year.
38:03
So whatever it was, I'll find it, Dylan.
38:06
It was very, very. Similar. 780 OK.
38:09
So essentially the same type of player.
38:11
And look what's happened to Dylan Carlson.
38:13
So I don't know, man, Like I, I don't think you can say that.
38:17
You can't get. Is for sure going to be.
38:20
You can't. Anything at this point?
38:22
You can't. I know it's tough, but you
38:24
cannot guarantee it anymore. And the the trap the Cardinals
38:27
have fallen into, and I get it because when you have a young,
38:30
exciting player and he shows like a full season of really
38:33
good play like Dylan Carlson did back in the day, you go, finally
38:37
we got it. We fixed the outfield thing.
38:38
This guy's a a A fixture. Let's extend it.
38:41
Like you get real excited about it and the notion and it's
38:44
almost blasphemy when people say, well, Cardinals need this
38:48
or that. Could you trade Dylan Carlson?
38:50
It's almost like a blasphemous thought.
38:52
You can't even think or talk about it or you'll be shunned.
38:55
That's what it would feel like right now to say, would you
38:58
trade Jordan Walker for Louise Robert and a reliever from the
39:02
from the White Sox? And you'd probably have to add
39:05
to that. And it would be, I don't know
39:07
what people would think about it, but like, just remember that
39:10
sometimes you don't don't get take lock because if you go out
39:13
on a limb and have a take a year later, it might look completely
39:16
different. And if you were saying the
39:17
Cardinals would be fools to trade Dylan Carlson, well, you
39:20
got that one wrong. And there was a time where I
39:22
fell into the trap. I said, look, I think Dylan
39:24
Carlson is a really good player. I think he's got a future.
39:26
He's got a lot of tools. He's completely just off his
39:30
game right now. The confidence is 0 from Dylan
39:33
Carlson, and I don't know that he gets it back in Saint Louis.
39:35
I think eventually he'll get it back somewhere else because
39:37
that's the way these things work for the Cardinals, But you're
39:40
not getting anything for Dylan Carlson.
39:41
Tyler O'Neill similar like, well, the raw materials.
39:44
How could you possibly suggest trading him off of a, you know,
39:48
a top ten finish in the MVP vote?
39:49
Like you could never do that. But then he kind of declines a
39:52
little bit and you go, well, I could still trade him and get
39:55
maybe something, but I'm going to buy back in.
39:56
He's going to he's going to bounce back for us.
39:58
And then he hits rock bottom and you trade him away for, you
40:01
know, a reliever nobody's heard of.
40:02
No offense to Nick Robertson, but he's on the IO right now
40:04
too. And now it's like, and granted,
40:07
O'Neil was injured with the Red Sox because that's what happens
40:09
to him, but he was playing really well.
40:12
It's just that sort of thing of don't get take locked into
40:15
hoarding the young player sometimes.
40:18
And this is something the Cardinals just it's not the way
40:20
they do business. But sometimes you can anticipate
40:23
and go, the guy we have might be more valuable to us in a trade
40:27
for something we don't have compared to we're just going to
40:30
let it ride and and, and see him through the struggles that he
40:32
may have. And they've done that over and
40:35
over. Carlson is a great example.
40:36
I hope that it doesn't happen with Jordan Walker.
40:39
I hope that he's great. But could you guarantee it at
40:41
this point? No, I mean, he's having a really
40:43
rough season. And I think part of it's mental,
40:45
but you know, for Dylan Carlson, I think a lot of it's mental and
40:48
it's been multiple years that he's kind of struggled and feels
40:50
like he's on the outs with the team or whatever.
40:52
Like last year you just wouldn't get in playing time.
40:54
And does that kind of seep into your play?
40:57
Can't guarantee it with. Jordan Walker.
40:58
But are the Cardinals the organization that would ever go,
41:01
hey, while he's still got some shine to him, we're going to
41:04
he's going to be part of a blockbuster.
41:06
They haven't done that since Colby Rasmus, and we know how
41:08
that one turned out. So I don't know.
41:11
I don't know. I don't know if it's mental with
41:14
Dylan Carlson or oh, he. Is IIA 100.
41:18
Percent. OK, but but you don't think it's
41:19
also just that he's not that great anymore?
41:23
Like if you ask me, you said you think Dylan Carlson will figure
41:27
it out somewhere else. You know, I like to gamble.
41:29
You like to gamble. I would bet against that now
41:33
just because also physically I always was kind of waiting for
41:37
him to to develop more of a big league physique and I don't
41:41
think we. People talk about his body too
41:43
much. It's kind of weird.
41:44
I don't really see that. No, I I know a lot of people
41:46
talk about it. OK.
41:47
But if we're talking about an outfielder and you want you want
41:50
power, you want at least 20 Homer power.
41:52
I mean, here's the thing with Jordan Walker, you can make the
41:55
case that he's more of a typical line drive hitter.
41:59
And that's one of the issues the last couple years.
42:00
They say he hits the ball on the ground too much.
42:03
But this is a grown man at age 22, whatever he is 67260
42:10
somewhere, somehow, even if you sold out for power, even if you
42:14
became the right-handed version of Nolan Gorman, right?
42:18
If you said, you know what, Jordan Walker, we don't care if
42:22
you're a 220 hitter that hits 30 bombs.
42:26
I think he can become that because the bat speed is there
42:29
and he's a mammoth human being, you know what I'm saying?
42:32
So like, I would still bet whether it's here or somewhere
42:35
else that Jordan Walker has a nice, nice big league career.
42:39
I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but I would bet on that.
42:42
I would not bet on that with Dylan Carlson.
42:44
Yeah, I but I mean, I see Dylan Carlson with a 780 OPS and being
42:48
15% above league average and finishing third in the rookie of
42:51
the year in 2021. That was 2021 so.
42:54
That's Four Seasons ago. Yes, but there's been injuries
42:58
and there have been different things.
42:59
And then once you're kind of on the outs, you're on the outs.
43:01
And I think that's where it became more mental is that last
43:04
year he was kind of in his, in my opinion, you know, maybe he
43:07
would say something different about it, but in his head about,
43:10
you know, Tyler O'Neill was on this pedestal and we're going to
43:13
give him every chance. And then it's like every chance
43:16
there would be an injury or whatever, Dylan still wouldn't
43:18
really get a shot. And I think eventually it got to
43:20
him. And you can't let that happen.
43:21
This Major League Baseball we're talking about, this is a
43:24
performance production business and there are no excuses.
43:27
And you can say, you know, he came up as a really young major
43:30
leaguer. He was like 2021 years old when
43:32
he first cracked his way in and he's still not, you know, is he
43:34
25 now? So it's not that he's old, but
43:37
you know, he's he's had the switch hitter thing.
43:39
And should he be a switch hitter?
43:40
He's always done it. Should they, you know, all of
43:42
these kind of narratives around him?
43:44
I think it just kind of eventually seeped into the
43:46
consciousness and a fresh start can sometimes shake something
43:50
loose for a guy. And Lane Thomas would be a
43:53
similar example for me that it just didn't look like he had
43:57
anything in 2021 with the Cardinals and then he goes to
43:59
Washington and I, whatever he's doing this year doesn't really
44:01
matter. He's had a couple of good
44:02
seasons and was able to have a change of scenery and make
44:06
something of himself. I think Dylan Carlson in the
44:10
right situation could be fine. I'm not saying he's going to be
44:13
an All Star caliber player, but I think he could be a even
44:17
better than a worthy 4th outfielder for a team.
44:20
I just don't feel like this organization has get in their
44:24
mind that it's going to be here. And when that happens, you sort
44:27
of it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
44:28
I understand what you're saying physically and all the different
44:30
elements, but like, I don't know that you can luck into 780 OPS
44:34
for a full season. Now you do have to adjust.
44:37
The lead's going to adjust to you and if you don't adjust
44:39
back, but that also to me is part mental to not be able to
44:42
kind of grind through that and find your next adjustment.
44:46
And if you're second guessing yourself, it can spiral.
44:48
And I think it's kind of spiraled on him, that's all.
44:51
Yeah, and I don't think he lucked into that, but I think
44:53
also if you go that's four years ago, he's a 115 OPS plus.
44:58
Well, but it's just OK. But he has Four Seasons.
45:01
He has a 115. OP if you're.
45:02
Counting that season, but you, I mean, that was the good one.
45:05
So you can't say it's been four years since he's done that.
45:07
It's been 3, actually 2 1/2, right?
45:11
Well, next year 99 OPS plus still OK.
45:14
For sure that's but. The next year, 79 this year.
45:19
I know it's only been what, 50-4 plate appearances?
45:22
I mean, he's a 10. Oh, it's awful.
45:24
He has. He has zero extra base hits.
45:27
He has six hits. I mean, again, I don't know, I
45:29
I'm sure there's a a big mental component, but like as you said,
45:34
the league adjust to you, you have to adjust back.
45:38
So I also see a guy who has not been able to adjust over the
45:43
last. Again, semantics, but four
45:46
baseball seasons that we have data on.
45:48
I'm not including his first season.
45:50
He has in like 35. It's not been four that he
45:52
hasn't adjusted. It's been three.
45:54
He was really good and then there was a season of 22 worse,
45:58
a season of 23 worse. Now we're in June of 24.
46:01
It's been 2 and not even a half bad years, but they have been
46:05
bad. I'm not.
46:07
Well, you know what I'm going to disagree with?
46:09
I'm going to disagree with you now because even his his second
46:12
year wasn't that bad. It was league average, right?
46:14
It was OK, but. It was a lot worse, you know?
46:18
OK, but 128 games, 99 OPS plus. I mean, we've we've we've seen
46:25
that happen. But then you'd think, hopefully
46:27
he bounces back to next year and gets back to a 115.
46:30
And that's where it became mental.
46:32
I think I think the exact opposite.
46:33
I think 2022 it was leagues adjusting to me and I haven't
46:37
maybe made the adjustments. 23 it was I'm not getting maybe the
46:41
treatment by the organization that I'm I'm being given, you
46:44
know, a place to play every day. And I've really got a grind.
46:47
And he that remember last summer, there was a moment where
46:50
I was there with John Denton asking him at his locker about
46:52
certain things. It was when O'Neill was coming
46:54
back off the IL and MO basically said he's going to be every day.
46:59
And we did the math. And it's like that means Dylan's
47:01
not hey, Dylan, how do you feel about that?
47:02
And he was honest. She's like, it sucks, honestly.
47:05
And so clearly to me, that was the mental side of it were
47:07
things he was letting some of that get to him, which is hard
47:09
not to. But also in that role, if you're
47:11
going to thrive, you just have to kind of battle through some
47:14
of that. I think he had a hard time last
47:15
year. Last year for me is when it
47:17
really did become mental. And if I think they brought him
47:19
back a little too quickly from injury this year because they
47:21
were desperate to find something in the outfield when it was like
47:24
Victor Scott and Siani were both just struggling and they saw
47:27
good things from Dylan at the end of spring, so they thought,
47:29
hey, let's rush him back. He says he's ready, and I don't
47:31
know if he was, so maybe I don't know that he's hurt now, but
47:34
it's just kind of really put him in a bind and now they don't
47:36
even want to play him over Michael Ciani and Michael
47:38
Ciani's OPS ING 510. So that kind of tells you where
47:41
it's at. All right, let's finish on this
47:44
note then trade deadline. What will they do?
47:48
What should they do? I would think, listen, even
47:52
though you're very negative and you say they're 1/2 game out of
47:54
last, I say I say you're a half game out of a wild card, third
47:59
wild card, which is not a high bar.
48:01
I get that. But after a crap last season and
48:05
you sold everybody, even if they're within two games, I
48:10
think the cardinal fans would mutiny if you didn't add.
48:13
And I understand that doesn't mean you're going to be a World
48:15
Series contender, but you, you better freaking add, especially
48:18
whatever happens with Matt's. If it's so obvious you need a
48:21
starter right-handed reliever. Tell me what you think about
48:24
center field with Siani. We like his defense, but there's
48:27
also some obvious holes where it would be easier.
48:30
It's like, OK, sometimes you go God, but where do we put
48:34
somebody this year? It's like no starter reliever.
48:37
You put them there, you put them there, you put them there.
48:40
Yeah, there are there are places to put people 100%.
48:44
And I agree with you. Fans would mutiny.
48:47
They should mutiny if if we don't end up seeing, you know, a
48:52
legitimate push of like, hey, let's fill the holes.
48:55
If we're around 500, let's fill the holes and try to make a go
48:57
of this thing. Because again, you asked for
48:59
patience last year. People gave it to you, but you
49:01
sold off and it was the right choice.
49:02
But you can't do that two in a row and have the same people be
49:05
in charge. It has to be.
49:07
I didn't get it done. Everybody.
49:08
I enjoyed my time with the Cardinals.
49:10
But I am going to now step aside as John Mosalak and I'm going to
49:12
let the next person do it. If this is a deadline sell off,
49:15
he has to step aside. I really do believe that.
49:18
It's just not fair, you know, to the organization because it's
49:21
just it would be clear at that point that there are just some
49:24
some things that the Cardinals are behind the times on and and
49:26
a fresh voice would be. I think that the proper thing
49:29
now I'm rooting for MO to be able to a have the team that he
49:32
built to this point get above 500 so that at the deadline he
49:36
can say, let's go make it happen.
49:38
You add here and here and suddenly you're viable.
49:41
You know, that's what I would like to see happen.
49:43
I think Cardinals fans should demand it.
49:45
I just look at the White Sox, man, I don't know.
49:47
I don't know that Louise Robert is is necessarily like going to
49:50
be in play because other teams are going to want him too.
49:53
And they have better prospects than you.
49:55
They just do. So unless you're getting really
49:57
creative and doing some uncomfortable things like
49:59
trading from the roster, which they've never liked to do when
50:02
they're contending again. Colby Rasmus is the last time I
50:04
can remember legitimately that happening.
50:06
You can make a case Alan Craig, that deal for John Lackey was
50:10
like that, but they knew Craig was was cooked from his injury.
50:13
And so that's they they got out of that contract while they
50:15
could. They just aren't really making
50:17
those types of trades very often.
50:19
And so I don't know that it would be something they would do
50:21
now, but man. And Louise Robert, not a good
50:24
defensive center fielder, but that's where he's played.
50:26
So I look at that guy and go, I don't know what it would take,
50:28
but it'd be very compelling and get you a right-handed relief
50:32
pitcher and a starter. They've got Garrett Crochet.
50:36
Teams are going to want to line up to trade with the White Sox,
50:38
but there are some that would be really interesting to me.
50:40
If you get a little bit above 500 and you just want to Yolo
50:43
it, that's what John Mosaic should go Yolo because he's
50:46
like, I only have a year left of this anyway.
50:48
What does it matter? Like, let's try to do something
50:51
and make a make a special run and shake things up to where
50:54
that could maybe happen. So that's what I would look to
50:56
see. But in your mind, can we both
50:59
agree that they don't do it in June?
51:01
I think they should trade for a righty reliever tomorrow because
51:03
I think that that now maybe Chris Roy Croft can do it.
51:06
He looked good last night. But typically they're not doing
51:08
that in June. But when you get to early July,
51:11
All Star breaking territory, do you think they have to be above
51:14
500 for for them to do it? Not what you want to see, but
51:17
what will happen? Is it almost like they, the team
51:20
needs to show MO or does MO need to show the team that like, I've
51:24
got your back and I'll continue to invest?
51:26
What what do you think? It's the chicken or the egg on
51:28
that, if that makes sense. OK, I think last year really
51:31
plays into this. Remember those stretchy years
51:34
where the Cardinals never did anything at the deadline and
51:38
people were it was like the shilt, right the end of Athena
51:41
years and everybody kind of was pissed, but also said I kind of
51:45
understand why. You're just going to see what
51:47
happens in the middle every time in the middle not doing really
51:52
anything. I remember watching trade
51:53
deadline shows and being like, wow, they literally didn't do
51:55
anything. This this feels kind of like
51:59
those teams, but it's different because of last year.
52:02
So like in me saying this, I don't have high hopes for the
52:06
Cardinals at all to make any type of deep run.
52:09
However, I think the fan base is so mad that even if you're three
52:13
games back in the wild card, which I don't think they're
52:15
going to be anything worse than that.
52:18
And that is not saying the Cardinals are great.
52:20
That is just the situation with the wild card.
52:22
Like whatever they do over the next whatever 45 days, they're
52:26
going to be probably where they are now or in the third wild
52:30
card or three games out. And in past years, I might say
52:34
doesn't make sense to do much. This year, I would say, you know
52:37
what? After last year's crap show, you
52:40
owe it to the fans to do something.
52:42
So add that pitcher and that reliever at minimum and just try
52:47
to sneak into the third wild card because because now you
52:50
need that. You know, back in the day, we
52:53
were pissed about that, right? But after last year and the
52:57
potential of no playoffs this year, you better somehow squeak
53:00
your way into the playoffs. I agree.
53:02
I think that's that needs to be the operating procedure for MO
53:06
and and his front office staff is like, are we three games
53:10
under 504 1/2 out of a wild card?
53:12
Yeah, but we need to probably add if it's not going to
53:15
mortgage the future in a crazy way, I think you need to try to
53:18
fill holes. Even if it's like a wave
53:19
LeBlanc, you need to kind of do some of those things to at least
53:23
say, Hey, we do value the idea that we could get into a playoff
53:26
this year after what we we did to y'all last year.
53:29
We're going to try to do our are are honest best to make that
53:32
happen. And so I think we're on the same
53:34
page there. It's just going to be
53:35
interesting that, like you said, if they get into a spot where
53:38
they're a game under, but they're four out of the wild
53:40
card and it's time to decide on making trades.
53:43
It could end up like some of those shield from Athena years
53:45
where they didn't really do much because they say well, but
53:48
people, I think that would be the most upsetting of all.
53:50
Now there are some fans who say, hey, if you're kind of out of
53:52
it, trade Goldie, see about Arenado, but those guys, how
53:55
much value could they have right now with the way they're
53:57
playing? So it's really not even worth
53:59
it. Just maybe like let the thread
54:01
play out on some of those guys and and see where you can go.
54:04
The other part is, do you really think that MO should be the guy
54:08
to rebuild again at this deadline if he's not going to be
54:11
in that seat long term? A lot of different angles on
54:14
that. One more thing that I do want to
54:15
say because earlier I talked about my past life as a
54:19
Cardinals fan, but the reason we brought it up is because I was
54:21
talking about that hat behind me.
54:23
That was the hat that Sonny Gray wore a few weeks ago in his post
54:26
game. And I was like, this hat is so
54:27
cool. And I looked, you know, someone
54:30
sent me a link. New era.
54:31
I'm like, I can't wear this hat, but I'm going to buy it just
54:33
because I want it sitting behind me for, you know, eventually
54:36
I'll get like a nice background. And we always say that, but put
54:39
little things on there and I just think it's a cool hat.
54:41
So I had to buy it. It's like the old school almost.
54:43
I don't know if it's 80s or what it is.
54:45
Cardinals logo, the circle logo that I think is so cool.
54:48
So I had to I bought the hat and it's sold out the next day.
54:51
So no regrets about that. It's, it's funny, 'cause I'm,
54:54
I'm disagreeing with myself a little bit because as I said,
54:57
this fan base needs the shot at the playoffs.
55:01
I am thinking, because you're thinking about what the
55:03
Cardinals need, right? But then you think about what
55:06
everybody else needs and you go, man, with Kyle Gibson, Lancelyn
55:13
and freaking Ryan Helsley with a year and a half of control.
55:16
That's the big. One right there.
55:17
You know, it's like you you think about how valuable if if
55:21
you're one of the people that go, I don't care if we squeak in
55:23
at 81, I want to get back to being elite, then the move is
55:27
actually to still sell off. I don't think the Cardinals will
55:31
do that. They usually don't.
55:33
But I understand that argument. And man, Kyle Gibson, Lance
55:37
Lynn, Ryan Helsley, just off the top of my head, the first guys,
55:40
I mean, so many teams would want those guys.
55:43
Everybody would want Helsley and everybody needs a starter.
55:47
Yeah, and and another year of control with Ryan Helsley.
55:49
Like you're also kind of admitting maybe we don't care if
55:51
we have a closer next year because we don't know how good
55:53
we're going to be or how much we're going to invest in getting
55:55
it right back on in 2025. But remember 2021 when Alex
56:00
Reyes was an All Star and everybody was like, yeah, you're
56:03
kind of, I don't know. And of course they ended up
56:04
making the playoffs that year, but it was like very short lived
56:08
and you're going, man, maybe we could have gotten something for
56:11
him when he was at his height and he like never pitched again.
56:14
Alex Reyes So it, you know, you didn't get anything for him.
56:18
And that's, like I said, the Cardinals don't trade high.
56:21
They they trade low after the window has passed.
56:24
And so that's just the way they'd like their guys.
56:27
And that's, you know, credit. It's a nice thing.
56:29
It's a good sentiment, but it's not very business savvy always.
56:32
We always talk about how this is a business.
56:34
But Ryan Helsley is amazing. He's awesome, but he's a relief
56:39
pitcher too. And sometimes those guys just
56:41
for no rhyme or reason, they lose it for a year or two and
56:44
then they find it back. So could I see an argument to be
56:46
made that if you don't think you're going to be that good
56:48
next year anyway? I mean, think about like this
56:50
past year, the Royals signed a rolled as Chapman, who wasn't
56:54
even their closer, but they signed him to a one year deal,
56:57
traded him at the deadline for Cole Reagan's, who's now like
56:59
one of their aces. Doesn't always work out that
57:02
well, but you can. You're going to get a lot for
57:04
Ryan Helsley if you were to trade him.
57:06
My hope is the Cardinals are right in the mix because I am
57:08
the positive guy on the show. I hope they're right in the mix
57:11
and they need Helsley to close out all those games and he's
57:13
going to be on the team next year.
57:15
But you know, I could also see if you wanted to just look at it
57:18
through a business lens, I could see the argument.
57:21
Let's end on that B shave. Good show.
57:24
Great to be back. Low hanging fruit.
57:26
Please comment like subscribe. I had fun as well and everybody
57:32
thanks for watching and. In the coffee mug.
57:36
Have a cup of cheer, folks. I still have Cardinals.
57:39
Team, they're going to turn it around.
57:42
They are all right. I think it's going.
57:43
To go on a big old winning streak.
57:44
It's going to be a big fat winning streak and that's why
57:47
when Charlie puts the link to my YouTube channel in the
57:49
description, you'll of course click it and subscribe because
57:54
that's what would be a nice thing to do.
57:56
Yep. All right.
57:56
See you folks. Have a great weekend, Brendan.
57:58
Have a great. Weekend.