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Pastors' Perspective-10/16/26 · Pastors Perspective

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
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Speaker 1: It is Friday and we are here for the last
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Speaker 1: time this week to answer the questions you have about
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Speaker 1: God's word. What are those questions? Call in and ask 888-564-6173.
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Speaker 1: is our number. We're gonna be here until 4 o'clock
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Speaker 1: to answer those questions. You can also watch today's episode.
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Speaker 1: We live stream every day on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram.
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Speaker 1: We also archive all of our episodes on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, no,
0:47
Speaker 1: not Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify.
0:50
Speaker 1: And Apple Podcasts, so you can catch the podcast there
0:52
Speaker 1: if you'd like. But, uh, call in. We'd love to
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Speaker 1: hear your question today. 888-564-6173. We've got a couple of
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Speaker 1: pastors from Calvary Chapel, Pacific Hills, and Aliso Viejo here.
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Speaker 1: Senior pastor Dave Rolfe, who has never been in the
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Speaker 1: studio before and forgot that he actually needs to speak
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Speaker 1: into the microphone. I'm sitting here thinking, oh, when is
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Speaker 1: this gonna start? And then I realized, hey, wait, where's
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Speaker 1: my mic?
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Speaker 1: Right over there. But yes, Dave is now miked up,
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Speaker 1: ready to go, and so is Assistant Pastor Justin Butoric.
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Speaker 1: How are you guys doing? Great to have you here today.
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Speaker 1: Doing great. Never better, Dave. I see you're not wearing
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Speaker 1: your Dodgers cap. I'm really, really, I didn't have time
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Speaker 1: to get a Brewers hat. I wore my Dodgers hat
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Speaker 1: in the car, but, uh, yeah, I wasn't gonna wear
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Speaker 1: it up here. Yeah, yeah, it's all good.
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Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number to call. You can also send
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Speaker 1: us your questions online on Facebook, YouTube, or Kwave.com, and
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Speaker 1: uh we're gonna begin with one of those questions that
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Speaker 1: was submitted online and then we'll go to the phones
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Speaker 1: at 888-564-6173. Stanley in Pasadena writes, first, I wanna thank
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Speaker 1: you guys for all you do. I've been listening to
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Speaker 1: your program.
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Speaker 1: For quite some time. My question is, how do you
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Speaker 1: deal with continual attacks by the devil? I know what
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Speaker 1: my gift is. God has used me in almost every
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Speaker 1: state in the nation. After almost 20 years, my ex-wife
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Speaker 1: had an affair with my best friend. This destroyed the marriage.
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Speaker 1: My kids all took it very hard. One good thing
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Speaker 1: is that I know my kids are saved. They accepted
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Speaker 1: Christ early. After the divorce, they haven't spoken to me.
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Speaker 1: She and even my mother acted as though I did
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Speaker 1: something wrong.
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Speaker 1: I have forgiven my ex-wife and my family because Christ
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Speaker 1: forgave me. I don't hold a grudge. I wish them
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Speaker 1: all well, but I must say, even the church I
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Speaker 1: was attending when this took place took her side. Since
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Speaker 1: the divorce, there have been heart attacks, strokes, seizures, the
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Speaker 1: return back to alcohol and drugs after nearly 20 years' sobriety.
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Speaker 1: My kids have never seen me loaded or drunk. Every
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Speaker 1: time I try to put my hand back to the plow,
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Speaker 1: the devil attacks me again. In February, I was attacked
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Speaker 1: by a pit.
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Speaker 1: In my apartment building lobby. I still love the Lord
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Speaker 1: and want to serve Him, but don't know where to start.
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Speaker 1: How can I find peace while I've been having a
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Speaker 1: wilderness experience for so long? I love the Lord, believe
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Speaker 1: in the Lord, and trust in the Lord, but my
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Speaker 1: life is in shambles. Justin, what would you say to Stanley?
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Speaker 1: Man, Stanley, I, I feel so bad. It sounds like
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Speaker 1: you're kind of got a modern day Job story going
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Speaker 1: on and it really, uh, there are times in life
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Speaker 1: and seasons and long seasons where it can feel like that,
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Speaker 1: where you feel like Satan's attacking you and, and I think,
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Speaker 1: you know, when I think of your questions and I
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Speaker 1: think of, um,
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Speaker 1: Kind of how you're reflecting on this. I, I think
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Speaker 1: you have to kind of know, number one, how Satan
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Speaker 1: does attack you and he's, you know, by Jesus called
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Speaker 1: the father of lies. He was a murderer from the
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Speaker 1: beginning and, you know, his
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Speaker 1: Biggest ability in your life is to get you to
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Speaker 1: believe something that's not true. And I think that that
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Speaker 1: when you look at the attacks on your life and
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Speaker 1: who you are, you know, Paul, um, kind of picked
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Speaker 1: that up if a passage I would encourage you to
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Speaker 1: go look at is Ephesians chapter 6, but in that chapter,
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Speaker 1: Paul picks that up and he tells, you know, the
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Speaker 1: Ephesians who are kind of about to battle and go to, uh,
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Speaker 1: wage war, if you would, and spiritual warfare, his really
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Speaker 1: only command for them is to stand.
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Speaker 1: Um, to kind of stand and hold on to the truth,
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Speaker 1: what they do know is true, and, um, you know,
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Speaker 1: when you're feeling attacked by Satan and you're feeling down
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Speaker 1: and these things are happening in your life, um, that's,
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Speaker 1: that's where you got to come back to what you
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Speaker 1: do know and who you know, and Jesus, and you
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Speaker 1: kind of stand if you go through all the, uh,
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Speaker 1: spiritual armor that God gives us in that chapter or
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Speaker 1: Paul writes about, they all have to do with ultimately.
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Speaker 1: Um, coming back to and understanding what we have in Jesus,
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Speaker 1: you know, our faith, our helmet of salvation, our feet
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Speaker 1: shod with the gospel of peace, the peace that we
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Speaker 1: have with God, and, um, each and every one of
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Speaker 1: those as you go through that are ways that we
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Speaker 1: come and stand firm in what we have in Jesus.
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Speaker 1: And so, you know, as you're looking, I, I can't
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Speaker 1: tell you how to make your life better, but I
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Speaker 1: can tell you that.
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Speaker 1: If you hold on to Jesus, you stand and you
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Speaker 1: really just plant yourself in and, and, and walk with
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Speaker 1: him more than you ever have. You said at the
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Speaker 1: end there that you, you love and you trust the Lord. Well,
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Speaker 1: that's kind of all you can do sometimes. You just
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Speaker 1: hold on to what you know, you stand and you
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Speaker 1: you keep fighting. And so, you know, that's my encouragement
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Speaker 1: to you is that you're in good company because, I mean,
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Speaker 1: you go through the scriptures and you read the stories
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Speaker 1: of so many.
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Speaker 1: Uh, of the people in the Bible that had to
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Speaker 1: walk with God in difficult times, and man, you go
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Speaker 1: through David's life, you go through Joseph, you go through
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Speaker 1: so many people, and, and you understand it's, it's not,
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Speaker 1: it's not easy. And, and sometimes we're kind of sold
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Speaker 1: that myth that the Christian life is just easy. I
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Speaker 1: have Jesus and everything's gonna be easy, and I have
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Speaker 1: Jesus and all my problems go away. Well,
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Speaker 1: It's not what Paul's telling the Ephesians at the end there.
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Speaker 1: He's like, hey, here's all this amazing stuff and amazing
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Speaker 1: truths about Jesus. Now stand in it and hold on
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Speaker 1: to it, because Satan's gonna really lie. He's gonna really
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Speaker 1: throw things in your face that aren't true. He's going
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Speaker 1: to really try and beat you when you're down and
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Speaker 1: hit you with those fiery darts and
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Speaker 1: You know, take that shield of faith and and hold on.
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Speaker 1: And so my encouragement to you is just, just hang
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Speaker 1: in there and keep, you know, connecting when when I
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Speaker 1: get attacked, I love to be around other Christians and
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Speaker 1: if they're not the ones attacking me, but, um, I'd
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Speaker 1: love to be around other Christians and, and, and really,
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Speaker 1: you know, uh, hunker down and and stand. So yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's my encouragement there, Dave. Yeah, and I agree with
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Speaker 1: all that and I think too.
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Speaker 1: To come to terms with the past, we have to
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Speaker 1: let go of it. And, you know, we can't take what,
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Speaker 1: what we had in the past and make that par
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Speaker 1: for the course, and like, if I don't have something
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Speaker 1: that I once had, then I have to get it
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Speaker 1: back to get to a starting point. Um, be thankful
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Speaker 1: that you had those opportunities that you've had.
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Speaker 1: The past, but your life starts over right now. All
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Speaker 1: of our lives start over right now, and that's always
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Speaker 1: the way it is. So, um, like Paul said, forgetting
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Speaker 1: what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
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Speaker 1: I pressed toward the mark for the prize of the
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Speaker 1: upward call of God in Christ Jesus. So forgetting what
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Speaker 1: lies behind, it means, OK, forget your failures, forget your successes.
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Speaker 1: Everything starts over, your life starts today.
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Speaker 1: If you try to live today, but you're feeling like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I'm cursed because of some of my failures, or I'm
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Speaker 1: doomed because of the cruel things that people have done
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Speaker 1: to me or the way people were unfair to me
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Speaker 1: and mean things that they said, then you're not giving
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Speaker 1: yourself a chance to live freely today. So I would
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Speaker 1: really encourage you to just let go of whatever was
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Speaker 1: in the past and realize right now, all you have
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Speaker 1: is right now.
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Speaker 1: But the future is going to happen based on what
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Speaker 1: you do right now. So make good decisions right now
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Speaker 1: and don't compare one time of your life to another.
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Speaker 1: All of our lives are like a roller coaster. They're
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Speaker 1: all over the place. And if you read the great
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Speaker 1: people in the Bible, most
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Speaker 1: The their areas of success were just over a few months, really,
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Speaker 1: or years at the at the most. It wasn't this
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Speaker 1: constant progression of everything is getting better and more blessed,
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Speaker 1: and a lot of times we get that idea about life,
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Speaker 1: but if you read Hebrews 11,
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Speaker 1: Most of those people who are in Hebrews 11 had
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Speaker 1: a very short blessing in their life, and it ended
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Speaker 1: up defining them. They're the one who did that, and
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Speaker 1: I like to think rather than somehow I need to keep,
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Speaker 1: you know, building on the past and becoming more and
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Speaker 1: more fruitful, I just need to do what I can
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Speaker 1: do right now today and see whatever God does in
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Speaker 1: the future.
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Speaker 1: Future, but I'm not, if I lived my life thinking that, man,
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Speaker 1: I have to overcome and, and surpass what's been in
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Speaker 1: the past, then I'm already, you know, I'm already strike
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Speaker 1: two standing there waiting for the fastball because, um, that's
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Speaker 1: not the way life is. So I would encourage you to,
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Speaker 1: to let go.
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Speaker 1: Of the past, let go of your fantasies about what
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Speaker 1: you want in the future. Just live right now. And,
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Speaker 1: and as Justin shared with you, just make that commitment
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Speaker 1: to do that and receive the comfort and the strength
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Speaker 1: that God gives you, but nobody votes on who you
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Speaker 1: are except God, and he votes that you're his child
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Speaker 1: and that he wants to spend forever with you.
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Speaker 1: Stan Lee, thanks so much for sending in your question
9:48
Speaker 1: and we're all gonna be praying for you that uh
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Speaker 1: life gets better, but at the same time that you
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Speaker 1: will be strengthened during these trials. 888-564-6173 is our number
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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk to Maria just as soon as
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Speaker 1: I figure out how all this works. That's what I
10:02
Speaker 1: get for making fun of Dave and the Dodgers and
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Speaker 1: everything else. So, uh, let's see. OK, I gotta click that.
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Speaker 1: Then I click this. OK, Maria, welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
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Speaker 2: Hi,
10:15
Speaker 2: hello. Hi, I'm sorry, I've listened to you all for decades,
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Speaker 2: and this is the first time I'm calling. I never
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Speaker 2: thought I'd actually call, but what took
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Speaker 1: you so long to call you all? This better be
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Speaker 1: a really good question,
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Speaker 2: Maria,
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Speaker 1: because if you waited all that time, it better not
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Speaker 1: be to ask a dumb
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Speaker 2: question.
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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this has been, this question has been
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Speaker 2: tugging at me. I, I was raised Catholic. I
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Speaker 2: You know, my parents, you know, I did my first communion.
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Speaker 2: My parents never really were, uh, uh, church attendees, you know,
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Speaker 2: and it, but I always, since I was little, felt
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Speaker 2: the Lord's presence of the Lord because I, you know,
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Speaker 2: growing up in poverty and, you know, Mexican and, you know, um,
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Speaker 2: And it just, you know, no one really talked in
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Speaker 2: the house. No one, you know, and teasing all the time,
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Speaker 2: so I'd be just going to bed, you know, in tears,
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Speaker 2: and but I felt the Lord's prayer. I knew there
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Speaker 2: was God. I knew in my heart that.
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Speaker 2: God was there. And, um, but my question is, OK,
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Speaker 2: so a few years back, my husband's um uncle was
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Speaker 2: close to passing, and we knew he was really sick and,
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Speaker 2: you know, he, of course, lived in poverty and, and
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Speaker 2: he was a tiny little bedroom and, and we went
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Speaker 2: and he
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Speaker 2: You know, he said to my husband, I'm just listening.
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Speaker 2: I'm a good listener, and he said, Oh, you know,
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Speaker 2: my mom told me that I shouldn't eat anymore because
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Speaker 2: I need to be clean when I, you know, meet Jesus.
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Speaker 2: And so he stopped eating and so well after the
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Speaker 2: 3rd day, you know, he passed away. And but I'm
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Speaker 2: just listening and he's having a conversation with my husband
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Speaker 2: and maybe 1 or 2 other people in the room
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Speaker 2: and then he waves me over and
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Speaker 2: And so he says to me, he says, oh, you know,
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Speaker 2: my mom says you have a place in heaven.
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Speaker 2: And I looked at him and kind of confused but
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Speaker 2: so overwhelmed by what he said, and he said, yeah,
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Speaker 2: and I looked at him and I said, What do
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Speaker 2: you mean, you know, she said, and then he said, no,
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Speaker 2: she told me that, that, that, you know, God has
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Speaker 2: a place for you and I was so overwhelmed because
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Speaker 2: You know, I've, you know, we all have our ups
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Speaker 2: and downs in life and, you know, and trials, and,
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Speaker 2: and I had quite a few of those, and, um,
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Speaker 2: and I've heard God's voice so many times, and, um,
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Speaker 2: and it just to me I, I, and to me
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Speaker 2: I looked at him because I didn't really believe it
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Speaker 2: was actually, you know, his mom, but I'm like, well,
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Speaker 2: was it an angel or was it.
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Speaker 2: You know, OK,
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Speaker 1: Dave, what would you say to Maria? Yeah, I mean,
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Speaker 1: nobody could say for sure, OK, what was that? Was
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Speaker 1: that his imagination, a hallucination? Was it an angel? Was
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Speaker 1: it actually his mom?
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Speaker 1: You know, when Jesus was on the Mount of Transfiguration,
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Speaker 1: his disciples, some of them were there, uh, Peter, James,
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Speaker 1: and John were there watching, and Moses and Elijah showed
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Speaker 1: up on the mountain, and they're like sitting there talking
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Speaker 1: to Jesus about what was going on. So, if they
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Speaker 1: could do that, I'm never going to say authoritatively that no,
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Speaker 1: God couldn't allow someone to come and
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Speaker 1: Carry a message. I mean, after Jesus died, ascended into heaven,
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Speaker 1: he came back and talked to people for, you know,
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Speaker 1: a period of time and shared with them, so I
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Speaker 1: would never say it couldn't be, but at the same time,
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Speaker 1: It would be a better thing to hang on to
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Speaker 1: is the fact that Jesus says, you have a place
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Speaker 1: in heaven. He says, I go to prepare a place
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Speaker 1: for you, and if I go and prepare a place
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Speaker 1: for you, I'll come again and receive you unto myself,
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Speaker 1: that where I am, there you may be also. And so, um,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure that if your mom has gone to be
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Speaker 1: with the Lord and that she would say the same thing.
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Speaker 1: So nothing wrong with the message. The message can't hang on, OK,
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Speaker 1: who said it, if Jesus already told you.
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Speaker 1: So I'd be like, truth is truth no matter who's
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Speaker 1: saying it. Um, if somebody, you know, if your uncle
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Speaker 1: is kind of hearing things or seeing things or imagining things,
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Speaker 1: that's OK. It's as long as what he's saying is,
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Speaker 1: is good, then I'm not going to argue about where
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Speaker 1: it actually came from, but we should never say that,
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Speaker 1: oh no, the Bible says that that could never happen
14:57
Speaker 1: because that's just not true.
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Speaker 1: The Bible doesn't show it happening very often. It, it
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Speaker 1: does periodically in the, in the Old Testament, you know, um, again,
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Speaker 1: where the witch at Endor, you know, you have that
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Speaker 1: story where it's like, whoa, how, how did that happen? So, um,
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Speaker 1: you know, I would never say it can't happen, but
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Speaker 1: at the same thing, I, I would agree that
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Speaker 1: You know, the Lord has a place for you because
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Speaker 1: he already told you that if you've put your faith
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Speaker 1: in Him, so I don't know, that would be my take.
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Speaker 1: What about the part Maria said her husband's uncle felt
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Speaker 1: that he was told, you know, he needs to stop
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Speaker 1: eating so that he can enter heaven clean. What about
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Speaker 1: that part?
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Speaker 1: You hear that part. Yeah, I heard that part. I,
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Speaker 1: you know, again, kind of like Dave said, it's like
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Speaker 1: you can't judge the spiritual realm, and, and I mean,
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Speaker 1: it's far beyond our pay grade to be able to
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Speaker 1: judge that from where we're at, um, but I mean, it's,
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Speaker 1: it's like Dave said, you, you kinda, you kinda wanna
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Speaker 1: come down and, and test it against what Jesus says,
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Speaker 1: and if it's ever anything that goes against what Jesus
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Speaker 1: is telling us and what we have revealed to us
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Speaker 1: in the scriptures, then I think you can write out
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Speaker 1: that's your
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Speaker 1: That's your safe place to go, yeah, this isn't really
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Speaker 1: of God, but, uh, you know, whether you should eat
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Speaker 1: or not at the end of his life as he's,
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Speaker 1: you said he's on his deathbed, um, you know, I,
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Speaker 1: I couldn't judge that. I couldn't tell you yes or no, um.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I, it's, I, I could have my opinion,
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Speaker 1: but there's, you know, no harm was really done. The
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Speaker 1: guy goes to be with the Lord, um, and it probably,
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Speaker 1: he didn't, probably didn't die because they're not eating for
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Speaker 1: 4 days. Um, he was dying anyway, so, um, a
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Speaker 1: lot of things we just don't know. Yeah, I guess
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Speaker 1: the only point I'm trying to make is.
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Speaker 1: That there's nothing in scripture that says, oh, we need
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Speaker 1: to not eat in order to, you know, we need to,
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Speaker 1: our bodies need to be cleansed or whatever before before
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Speaker 1: we die. Yeah, no, there isn't, but you know, there's
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Speaker 1: plenty of scriptures about fasting for other reasons. And so, um, I,
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't, uh, you know, I'd be skeptical, honestly, but
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Speaker 1: at the same time, I would never say no, that
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Speaker 1: couldn't be the case. Uh, now if somebody's saying that
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Speaker 1: everyone should stop eating.
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Speaker 1: You know, then obviously that would be wrong because, you know, Jesus,
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Speaker 1: after he rose from the dead, one of the first
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Speaker 1: things he did is cook a bunch of fish up
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Speaker 1: so that they could eat with the disciples. And of course, he,
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Speaker 1: you know, went on the, on the Emmaus Road when he, he, uh,
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Speaker 1: you know, sat down and broke bread with these guys.
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Speaker 1: So he certainly
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Speaker 1: There was nothing unspiritual about eating. Jesus served the Last
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Speaker 1: Supper right before he went and died. So certainly if you're,
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Speaker 1: if somebody's taking it as this is a general principle,
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Speaker 1: then it isn't. But at the same time, for a
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Speaker 1: particular person, if, you know, I don't see any harm done.
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Speaker 1: Maria, thanks for your phone call. Now we'll talk to
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Speaker 1: Danny in Riverside who listens to K-wave. Thank you, Danny,
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Speaker 1: for calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for Dave and Justin?
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Speaker 2: OK, my question is,
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Speaker 2: Why is wisdom called she in the Bible?
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Speaker 2: Hm, all right.
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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there are some places where it's called
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Speaker 1: she and there are some places where wisdom is called he,
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Speaker 1: so it isn't, it really has to do with grammar. When,
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Speaker 1: when it comes to the original languages, a little different
18:44
Speaker 1: than English, where they have gender attached to certain words,
18:49
Speaker 1: and it has nothing to do with male and female
18:52
Speaker 1: sexual differences that
18:54
Speaker 1: We know of, it's simply the organization of the language,
18:58
Speaker 1: and we don't always know why certain words have a
19:01
Speaker 1: feminine gender and others have a masculine gender, and so
19:06
Speaker 1: it's really a grammatical issue, um, not, not an issue of, uh,
19:13
Speaker 1: unless you ask a woman and then she'll tell you
19:16
Speaker 1: very well why wisdom is a she,
19:18
Speaker 2: but
19:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, momma, mom never lied to you, right?
19:24
Speaker 1: That's right. Mama's always right, so I guess you could
19:28
Speaker 1: use that, but it's not really what it is. It's
19:31
Speaker 1: really just a grammatical thing. So Danny,
19:33
Speaker 2: did you have
19:34
Speaker 1: a reason
19:34
Speaker 2: you're asking this
19:35
Speaker 1: question, or
19:36
Speaker 2: you were just wondering?
19:37
Speaker 2: Well, uh, yeah, because my my, well, my honey honey
19:40
Speaker 2: sign in the Bible, and I, I never thought, I
19:42
Speaker 2: don't remember everything, uh, that, that it was a woman.
19:48
Speaker 2: And, or, you know, are called a she cause, you know,
19:51
Speaker 2: it was such a, a man world, you know, the men,
19:55
Speaker 2: you know, were the, the head of everything, and um
19:58
Speaker 2: so I thought, oh, well, that's odd, you know, and
20:02
Speaker 2: But uh it's more of a grammical thing. Oh, I
20:04
Speaker 2: have another question. You know, when they talk in the
20:07
Speaker 2: Bible of now how God created man and, and he's
20:11
Speaker 2: in our image, uh, are they really speaking of the Trinity, Jesus,
20:17
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit, and God together, we are in that image.
20:21
Speaker 1: Justin, what do you say?
20:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he's referring to that, it's, you can take
20:27
Speaker 1: it as a semi glimpse of a, of a unity,
20:31
Speaker 1: but there's no mention of Jesus at that point of
20:33
Speaker 1: the scriptures, um, and it's just a unified our image
20:38
Speaker 1: there as he's talking to himself. Um, and so yeah,
20:42
Speaker 1: I mean, you can extrapolate that who's the who's the
20:45
Speaker 1: us that I'm talking to, um, but most commentators kind
20:49
Speaker 1: of don't take that as a hardline Trinitarian.
20:52
Speaker 1: Um, view there, but you can see glimpses of it.
20:55
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, Dave, if you want to
20:57
Speaker 1: add to that, but it's, it's, yeah, I mean, it's
21:00
Speaker 1: a hint of something more, but it doesn't ever really say,
21:05
Speaker 1: there are people who say, oh, it's, you know, spirit, soul, body,
21:11
Speaker 1: or it's, you know, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, or angel. Yeah,
21:15
Speaker 1: people have all sorts of ideas, but the point of
21:19
Speaker 1: it wasn't, you know, that.
21:22
Speaker 1: That somehow humanity was going to resemble a triune God.
21:29
Speaker 1: The point of it was there's something really special about
21:33
Speaker 1: humans and their ability to relate to God, and God,
21:39
Speaker 1: you know, Elohim, the name for God, is, is a
21:45
Speaker 1: It's a plural. E would be singular and Ellah would
21:50
Speaker 1: be dual, and Elohim plural in the Hebrew means 3
21:54
Speaker 1: or more. So it doesn't necessarily let us make man
21:59
Speaker 1: in our image, it doesn't necessarily mean 3, but at
22:02
Speaker 1: least grammatically, it would be 3 or more just for
22:06
Speaker 1: his name alone. So there's something about the complexity of
22:10
Speaker 1: the deity.
22:12
Speaker 1: That connects with the way that we are created uniquely
22:17
Speaker 1: and distinctly from, say, the animals or from, you know,
22:22
Speaker 1: trees or planets or whatever else that God created. So,
22:26
Speaker 1: but we don't know exactly why. And as soon as,
22:30
Speaker 1: as soon as somebody says, oh, that's because, you know, we,
22:35
Speaker 1: you know, we're a triune being and God is a
22:37
Speaker 1: triune being.
22:38
Speaker 1: Um, that doesn't always hold up in scripture because for
22:41
Speaker 1: one thing, spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture
22:45
Speaker 1: in some places, and, and we don't suggest that people
22:49
Speaker 1: are just a duality. We, uh, so it really, it's
22:53
Speaker 1: playing games, it's a preacher story really where like it
22:56
Speaker 1: preaches really well, but it's not, it's not really intended.
23:01
Speaker 1: In what he's saying there, it's just that there's this
23:04
Speaker 1: fullness of God and there's something special about humans being created, um,
23:09
Speaker 1: in a way that connects with God.
23:12
Speaker 1: Danny, thanks for your questions today here on Pastor's Perspective
23:16
Speaker 1: at 888-564-6173. Gonna be here for about another 30, 35
23:21
Speaker 1: more minutes. Still time for you to call. Here's Rudy
23:24
Speaker 1: and Cerritos, who's listening to K-Wave. What did you want
23:27
Speaker 1: to know, Rudy?
23:28
Speaker 2: Oh yes, uh, good afternoon everybody. How are y'all doing today?
23:32
Speaker 1: Not bad. We're doing well. We're not doing good, right,
23:35
Speaker 2: Dave? Right,
23:37
Speaker 1: we're doing well.
23:39
Speaker 2: OK, awesome, awesome. So my question is, um, I actually
23:42
Speaker 2: got this from listening to Chuck, uh, Pastor Chuck earlier.
23:45
Speaker 2: In regards to the tree of knowledge.
23:48
Speaker 2: So, when God talked to Adam and say, hey, you know,
23:51
Speaker 2: this is the tree of knowledge, stay away, do you
23:53
Speaker 2: think that was one of his first tests as far
23:56
Speaker 2: as maybe doing something about it compared to saying, oh,
23:59
Speaker 2: you know, whatever. Um, cause now I'm thinking, you know,
24:02
Speaker 2: maybe he should have fortified it or did something, so
24:04
Speaker 2: that even if Eve wanted to go, she wouldn't be
24:07
Speaker 2: able to get there, and then only Adam would know
24:10
Speaker 2: of the Tree of Knowledge.
24:13
Speaker 2: Dave,
24:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I just wanna get your perspective. I'm gonna
24:16
Speaker 2: hang up.
24:17
Speaker 1: OK, OK, thanks for calling.
24:20
Speaker 1: You know, when God created humans, he created them with
24:24
Speaker 1: the ability to make choices, and that led to all
24:28
Speaker 1: the problems that we have. But all the problems that
24:32
Speaker 1: we have, despite all of that, the fact is we
24:36
Speaker 1: have a situation where we can truly have a relationship
24:38
Speaker 1: with God that we choose, and you can't have people
24:42
Speaker 1: choosing God unless
24:44
Speaker 1: They could choose to go against God. And so somehow
24:50
Speaker 1: a relation, a real relationship with God as opposed to
24:53
Speaker 1: being robots who are just doing what we're programmed to do,
24:57
Speaker 1: was so valuable to God that apparently it's worth in
25:01
Speaker 1: his eyes, all of the damage that is done by
25:05
Speaker 1: people who choose wrongly. So they were in the garden
25:09
Speaker 1: and it was very simple. They only had one rule,
25:11
Speaker 1: don't eat that one tree.
25:14
Speaker 1: But had they not had that tree or that rule,
25:17
Speaker 1: they would have, they could have stayed innocent, but they
25:20
Speaker 1: couldn't have had a relationship with God that was something
25:24
Speaker 1: that they actually chose to do. It would be, they
25:27
Speaker 1: would have been like little robots just programmed like AI
25:31
Speaker 1: and they're doing exactly what they're told to do.
25:34
Speaker 1: And so I think God made a real simple option.
25:40
Speaker 1: There's all these other fruit. There's, you know, the tree
25:43
Speaker 1: of life that will just allow you to live forever.
25:47
Speaker 1: He gave them everything possibly good and then just said, Oh,
25:51
Speaker 1: by the way, there's this one rule don't eat of
25:53
Speaker 1: that one tree.
25:55
Speaker 1: And the truth is they, of course, Satan, who's a liar,
26:01
Speaker 1: told them, and it's amazing how many times we talk
26:05
Speaker 1: about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
26:07
Speaker 1: and Satan told them, oh, you'll know good from evil.
26:10
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that even today, one of the biggest
26:15
Speaker 1: temptations is for us to pretend like we know everything.
26:19
Speaker 1: That I know good and evil. Like, every time I
26:22
Speaker 1: tell someone what to do, every time I point my
26:25
Speaker 1: finger at someone, every time I express all my opinions about, well,
26:29
Speaker 1: those people in that church and, and that guy and
26:31
Speaker 1: those politicians and those, as soon as I'm doing that,
26:34
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I know good and evil, and yet what
26:39
Speaker 1: God wanted us to do was to be
26:41
Speaker 1: Humble and to wait on him and I, a passage
26:45
Speaker 1: that I'm teaching in Philippines 2 this Sunday on, you know,
26:50
Speaker 1: thinking like Jesus, a part of it is esteeming others
26:54
Speaker 1: as being better than yourself. It goes so against our nature.
26:59
Speaker 1: And yet in the beginning, I think that that was
27:02
Speaker 1: the test.
27:04
Speaker 1: What do you, do you want to be the guy who,
27:06
Speaker 1: the person, the woman who knows right and wrong, you're the,
27:11
Speaker 1: you're the measure of good and evil, and she fell
27:15
Speaker 1: for it, and unfortunately Adam did too, and, but the
27:19
Speaker 1: truth is, they had to have some kind of choice,
27:22
Speaker 1: that was about as easy a choice as you could
27:23
Speaker 1: possibly have and they messed it up.
27:26
Speaker 1: So God could have given them a whole bunch of
27:28
Speaker 1: rules at that point, um, but the same results would
27:31
Speaker 1: have been there, just like when he gave the law,
27:34
Speaker 1: it had hundreds of rules, and of course they broke them,
27:39
Speaker 1: they didn't, nobody ever kept the law except Jesus, so
27:42
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I think it was a, a, a necessary
27:47
Speaker 1: choice so that they could then choose fellowship with God
27:52
Speaker 1: or not. And I think it still remains ultimately, the
27:56
Speaker 1: only choice that any of us makes and whatever
27:59
Speaker 1: What we do is, am I going to trust him
28:03
Speaker 1: for what's right? Am I going to receive his grace
28:06
Speaker 1: and his love? Or am I going to be the
28:09
Speaker 1: one who decides truth and and falsity? And if I
28:14
Speaker 1: do that, I'm falling into the same trap. Justin, any thoughts? Yeah,
28:19
Speaker 1: and I would just kind of echo that up with,
28:21
Speaker 1: you know, the, the dangers of trying to limit people's
28:24
Speaker 1: choices are that, well, I mean, it's where we get legalism,
28:28
Speaker 1: but um,
28:30
Speaker 1: They can't authentically choose you in love. And so that
28:33
Speaker 1: that was what Dave was getting at, that, that love
28:35
Speaker 1: was so valuable that, you know, God loved them and
28:39
Speaker 1: they could freely make a choice. And so, um, if
28:42
Speaker 1: he had limited that, if he had put a box
28:45
Speaker 1: around it, if he had hid it from them, if
28:46
Speaker 1: he had done any of the things you kind of
28:47
Speaker 1: mentioned there, um, they wouldn't have been able to freely choose.
28:50
Speaker 1: And so, you know, it's, it's, you see the same
28:53
Speaker 1: thing when you take choices away from people. It's like
28:55
Speaker 1: you're just forcing them to be something that they can't be.
28:58
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, could have gone to Home Depot and
29:01
Speaker 1: put up boards all around it to keep her away
29:03
Speaker 1: from it or something. I don't know, maybe that's what
29:04
Speaker 1: Rudy was thinking. I don't know, but uh, we are, uh,
29:07
Speaker 1: coming up to our break here on Pastor's perspective, but
29:10
Speaker 1: we'll answer more of your questions when we return. We've
29:13
Speaker 1: got Pastors Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric from Calvary Chapel
29:16
Speaker 1: Pacific Hills here to answer your questions. 888-564-6173 is the
29:22
Speaker 1: number to call, as you just heard Dave say, he's
29:24
Speaker 1: teaching from.
29:25
Speaker 1: this weekend at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills. You can hear
29:29
Speaker 1: that the 8 a.m. service right here live on K Wave,
29:33
Speaker 1: but I'm sure Dave and Justin would love to see
29:35
Speaker 1: you there in person if you don't already have a
29:37
Speaker 1: church home. Show up to the 8:00 a.m. or the
29:39
Speaker 1: 10:00 a.m. service. CC Pacifichills.org to get more details about
29:43
Speaker 1: their church. 888-564-6173 is our number, and we'll be back
29:48
Speaker 1: in a few minutes with your questions right here on
29:50
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective.
30:19
Speaker 1: We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
30:25
Speaker 1: Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric are here today. They're pastors
30:28
Speaker 1: at Calvary Chapel, Pacific Hills, and Aliso Viejo. You also
30:31
Speaker 1: hear Dave right here on K Wave, The Balanced Word
30:35
Speaker 1: airs weekdays at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, also really
30:38
Speaker 1: early in the morning, and, um,
30:41
Speaker 1: Weekends too, on uh K wave 107.9 and also on
30:45
Speaker 1: K-wave 11:10 and the live service is heard on Kwave
30:49
Speaker 1: 107.9 Sunday mornings at 8. Let's go to the phones.
30:52
Speaker 1: Here is Tina calling from Oceanside. She is listening on
30:57
Speaker 1: Kwave
30:57
Speaker 2: 107.9
30:58
Speaker 1: and watching on YouTube at the same time. There's probably
31:01
Speaker 1: like a thirty-second delay or something, I don't know, but, uh, Tina,
31:04
Speaker 1: thanks for calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for us today?
31:10
Speaker 2: Hi hi Brian, how are you doing? Doing well.
31:13
Speaker 2: Outstanding. I have a question for Pastor Dave Ross. I
31:17
Speaker 2: have been waiting for you to come on before I
31:19
Speaker 2: call because for a couple, a few months ago, you
31:24
Speaker 2: shared something about somebody in your, I'm not sure it's
31:28
Speaker 2: your family member about molestation. And correct me, please correct
31:34
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, and how did you forgive that
31:37
Speaker 2: person because it happened to me, a family member.
31:42
Speaker 2: And it affected my marriage life. Well, I'm not married
31:45
Speaker 2: no more, even when I'm dating, and I thought I've
31:48
Speaker 2: forgiven him, but I'm still struggling. It's really hard because
31:52
Speaker 2: it's really affected me.
31:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, when you go through something like that
31:58
Speaker 1: and
31:58
Speaker 1: You know, I had a father who was, um, schizophrenic,
32:03
Speaker 1: and as a result, he did all kinds of, you know, hurtful,
32:07
Speaker 1: horrible things, um, to me, and then mercifully, but the
32:13
Speaker 1: last time I probably saw him was when I was
32:16
Speaker 1: in maybe 6th grade, and then many years later when
32:20
Speaker 1: he died, I got a call from a coroner and
32:23
Speaker 1: I had to go take care of all my dad's
32:25
Speaker 1: stuff and get rid of it, dump all of it.
32:27
Speaker 1: But, you know, my dad, I had to understand, and
32:33
Speaker 1: my father and I would visit him in mental hospitals
32:36
Speaker 1: different times, and so I knew something wasn't right, but
32:42
Speaker 1: How I dealt with, you know, him, you know, touching
32:45
Speaker 1: me inappropriately and stuff. Partly, I, I didn't even remember
32:51
Speaker 1: it too much until later as it kind of occurred
32:54
Speaker 1: to me and I recognized it. Um, but forgiving someone,
33:00
Speaker 1: recognizing they didn't know, I mean, really, they didn't understand
33:06
Speaker 1: what they were.
33:06
Speaker 1: There's something wrong with them, something damaged in them, um,
33:11
Speaker 1: perhaps somebody did something to them like that. So you
33:15
Speaker 1: can have that mental understanding. But for me, uh, it was,
33:20
Speaker 1: I was glad ultimately that even though, you know, I
33:25
Speaker 1: had mixed emotions, but once my dad left, that was
33:29
Speaker 1: a type of forgiveness in a way.
33:31
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to let my dad live in my
33:32
Speaker 1: head for the rest of my life. Not that I
33:35
Speaker 1: ever forgot about him, but, and sometimes I would just think, wow,
33:38
Speaker 1: what if he showed up when I was a pastor
33:41
Speaker 1: at Calvary Costa Mesa, and every Sunday I would lead
33:45
Speaker 1: the singing, 3 services with thousands of people who were there.
33:50
Speaker 1: And there were times when I just looked at the
33:52
Speaker 1: crowd and I thought, what if I ever saw my
33:54
Speaker 1: dad here, you know.
33:55
Speaker 1: I haven't haven't heard from him in years. And so
33:59
Speaker 1: there's always that mixed thing, like, God, I wondered where
34:03
Speaker 1: he was, I wondered what would happen to him and
34:06
Speaker 1: wondered if he would be proud of me, and, you know, it's,
34:10
Speaker 1: it's never just cut and dried, like, bad people aren't
34:13
Speaker 1: just all bad. Bad people are messed up and, and sick,
34:18
Speaker 1: and ultimately, it takes time. Um, I think for me,
34:24
Speaker 1: Um, the real healing came. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you
34:28
Speaker 1: go restore a relationship with someone. Forgiveness is all about you,
34:33
Speaker 1: that you will put it, say, I'm not going to
34:35
Speaker 1: live my life carrying that, having that hanging over me.
34:39
Speaker 1: I'm setting it aside, and, but it's something that you
34:42
Speaker 1: have to do regularly and all the time.
34:45
Speaker 1: But I think too, as you, uh, as there are opportunities,
34:50
Speaker 1: I know for me, as, as a school administrator, I
34:54
Speaker 1: had opportunities to minister to people who had been through
34:58
Speaker 1: things like I had been through, and after about the,
35:02
Speaker 1: you know, 4th or 5th 1, I said, everything I
35:06
Speaker 1: went through was already worth it because
35:11
Speaker 1: Sorry, because I could make somebody feel like they're not alone,
35:15
Speaker 1: and I decided.
35:17
Speaker 1: What a baby, but I decided that, you know, if
35:21
Speaker 1: you can make someone who feels like they're alone, not
35:25
Speaker 1: be alone, you can't put a price tag on that.
35:28
Speaker 1: It's really important.
35:31
Speaker 1: And so, I think that helped me kind of adjust
35:36
Speaker 1: when I realized that this is something that can help
35:40
Speaker 1: multiple people, as a result of something that I went
35:43
Speaker 1: through and I survived, um, you know, it still kind
35:49
Speaker 1: of hurts, but at the same time, it's like, once
35:51
Speaker 1: I started,
35:53
Speaker 1: Being able to minister to other people and, and share,
35:57
Speaker 1: and I, I it's not something I talk about in
35:59
Speaker 1: sermons and stuff, but when I talk to somebody personally, I,
36:03
Speaker 1: I'll sometimes mention it, and it's like, um, to me,
36:08
Speaker 1: that's where
36:09
Speaker 1: A part of me heals every time I feel like
36:13
Speaker 1: I can encourage someone else that you can survive, you
36:17
Speaker 1: did survive. God was with you, and that God wants
36:21
Speaker 1: to ultimately someday use this in your life in a
36:25
Speaker 1: positive way. So I don't know. Does that make sense, Tina?
36:29
Speaker 2: Yes, Pastor Dave, you know what, you, when you said that,
36:32
Speaker 2: it reminds me, because I'm a retired US Army, and
36:36
Speaker 2: every time I have a younger soldier under me that
36:41
Speaker 2: went through what I went through, and I share that,
36:44
Speaker 2: and in a way, I also minister with them, to
36:47
Speaker 2: them that it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard because
36:50
Speaker 2: I'm right now I'm still struggling, but, you know, with
36:53
Speaker 2: God's grace, we're still here, you know, and, and I
36:56
Speaker 2: saved an example.
36:57
Speaker 2: Which is I'm glad you mentioned that how you minister
37:00
Speaker 2: to your, to your, to your congregation about what you experienced,
37:03
Speaker 2: and I did that during my time in the military
37:06
Speaker 2: with the younger generation.
37:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, anytime you can let people know that
37:12
Speaker 1: it's not just them, you know.
37:15
Speaker 1: Life is, is crazy and unfair and it's painful, and
37:19
Speaker 1: that's what we need heaven for, but while we're down here,
37:23
Speaker 1: we have to scratch and claw and do whatever we
37:26
Speaker 1: can to survive, and if we survive, um, enough to
37:30
Speaker 1: be able to be there for some other people, then
37:34
Speaker 1: it made it worth it, you know, in some ways,
37:37
Speaker 1: and there's in some ways, you don't completely get over it,
37:41
Speaker 1: probably until you're with the Lord.
37:44
Speaker 2: OK, well, thank you so much, uh, Pastor Dave, and
37:46
Speaker 2: I don't mean to make you cry. I
37:48
Speaker 1: appreciate you. I know, I, I hate crying when I cry.
37:52
Speaker 1: Like men hate it and women love it, so I
37:55
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm, I'm an old man.
37:59
Speaker 1: No, Dave, we're, we're very appreciative of your ministry, your vulnerability.
38:04
Speaker 1: I mean, I always talk to people who are just,
38:07
Speaker 1: they always say,
38:08
Speaker 1: You know, Dave is, you're very real. You're very, you know, you're, you're,
38:14
Speaker 1: sometimes some of your sermons, you'll go from, at the
38:17
Speaker 1: beginning of the sermon, you're telling it like it is
38:19
Speaker 1: to someone, and by the end of the sermon, you're,
38:21
Speaker 1: you're just sharing something that happened to you or whatever
38:23
Speaker 1: and
38:24
Speaker 1: People really see that. They really resonate, you know, that's
38:27
Speaker 1: another thing that comes from the mental illness because when
38:31
Speaker 1: I was a little kid, I heard a doctor telling
38:33
Speaker 1: my mom that schizophrenia can be inherited, especially with boys.
38:38
Speaker 1: And so I had that hanging over my head. Am
38:40
Speaker 1: I going to be crazy like my dad? And I,
38:44
Speaker 1: I finally made the decision.
38:46
Speaker 1: I am just going to, you know, I'm not going
38:49
Speaker 1: to believe fantasies. I'm not going to say things that
38:51
Speaker 1: I'm imagining. I'm going to be obsessed with being real,
38:56
Speaker 1: because I understood being real and honest was the exact
38:59
Speaker 1: opposite of mental illness. Now, there are plenty of people
39:03
Speaker 1: who I'm sure are mentally healthy, but they get up
39:06
Speaker 1: there and put on a show.
39:08
Speaker 1: Put on an act, but if, if I'm the way
39:11
Speaker 1: that I am, part of it is because it's like,
39:13
Speaker 1: I just don't have, you know, and at this point,
39:17
Speaker 1: nobody gets schizophrenia at my age, but, you know, I, I'm,
39:21
Speaker 1: I'm devoted to just telling the truth, and I would
39:24
Speaker 1: rather tell the truth and have it offend someone than
39:28
Speaker 1: to tell a lie.
39:29
Speaker 1: And Pastor Chuck and I used to talk about that
39:32
Speaker 1: sometimes because he, he once told me, he goes, Dave,
39:35
Speaker 1: you're the smartest Calvary Chapel pastor there is, and you
39:38
Speaker 1: could pastor a huge church if you would just learn
39:41
Speaker 1: to not say everything you think. And I said, I'm
39:45
Speaker 1: not willing to pay that price. And he said, I
39:48
Speaker 1: can respect that.
39:51
Speaker 1: Tina, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective, 888-564-6173.
39:57
Speaker 1: Tom in San Diego, you're up next. Hi.
40:01
Speaker 2: Hi Brian
40:02
Speaker 2: and hi pastors.
40:03
Speaker 1: Hey guys, hey.
40:05
Speaker 2: Hi, um, yeah, my, my question is about, uh, Melnik.
40:11
Speaker 1: Melchizedek, yes
40:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, and, um, I'm wondering, like, you know, he's the
40:16
Speaker 2: king of Salem, you know, which is Jerusalem, and, um,
40:20
Speaker 2: when Abraham went to go sacrifice slay, um, Isaac, um,
40:25
Speaker 2: why didn't he, like, you know, run into Melchizedek?
40:28
Speaker 2: Like it should have been on like the same mountain
40:30
Speaker 2: or same mountain range, I would think.
40:33
Speaker 1: Justin, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's
40:37
Speaker 1: debatable what it it, but it is the area for
40:40
Speaker 1: sure in that Jerusalem area.
40:42
Speaker 1: Um, and I think, I think the story stand alone. Obviously,
40:47
Speaker 1: Melchizedek was, was out and went to meet Abraham where
40:51
Speaker 1: he was. He was, you know, it was an encounter
40:55
Speaker 1: that he was looking to and and putting on. And
40:58
Speaker 1: I think the other encounter with Isaac on the, on,
41:01
Speaker 1: on Mount Moriah is, um, something where Abraham knew he was,
41:06
Speaker 1: he was carrying this weight.
41:07
Speaker 1: Um, as he went there, it says over in Hebrews
41:10
Speaker 1: when it kind of references that, that he said, Abraham
41:13
Speaker 1: concluded God could raise his son from the dead as
41:15
Speaker 1: he's about to go and sacrifice him there. And I
41:18
Speaker 1: don't know what that thought process looked like for Abraham,
41:22
Speaker 1: but I think if he encounters Melchizedek on the way up,
41:25
Speaker 1: he goes, oh great, we've got a priest here, we've,
41:28
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of shortchanges the entire story.
41:32
Speaker 1: And so I, I can't tell you exactly why, but
41:34
Speaker 1: it worked out exactly as God wanted it to work
41:37
Speaker 1: out in that situation because it really was, you know,
41:40
Speaker 1: a test of Abraham's faith and trust in the Lord.
41:44
Speaker 1: And so, um, however that worked out, I mean, I
41:47
Speaker 1: would have, to me it would have been more picturesque
41:50
Speaker 1: if he had seen him afterwards, you know, on the
41:52
Speaker 1: way down, and God, I could have used you up there, but, um,
41:55
Speaker 1: You know, and then their encounter there, but, um, yeah,
41:58
Speaker 1: not to shortchange the whole process and the and the
42:01
Speaker 1: step of faith he had to take as he went
42:02
Speaker 1: up on that mountain to bring his only son up
42:05
Speaker 1: there to, you know, in Genesis 22 to, to, you know,
42:09
Speaker 1: provide the sacrifice. And so, um, God had it all
42:13
Speaker 1: under control. He obviously encountered the Lord in that.
42:16
Speaker 1: The Lord stayed his hand and told him to stop.
42:18
Speaker 1: And so it wasn't like God wasn't there and that
42:21
Speaker 1: he needed Melchizedek to show up and, and, you know,
42:25
Speaker 1: do something alternative. God knew all along what he was
42:27
Speaker 1: going to do there. Um, and, and I don't think
42:31
Speaker 1: God's intent was that Isaac was ever going to be sacrificed,
42:34
Speaker 1: but it was that Abraham would trust him and, and,
42:37
Speaker 1: you know, walk up that lonely hill with his only
42:39
Speaker 1: son and, and be willing to lay that down and
42:42
Speaker 1: Um, and God goes, no, stop, and he finds the
42:44
Speaker 1: ram in the thicket there. And so, um, yeah, we
42:48
Speaker 1: can only kind of, kind of, kind of make guesses
42:51
Speaker 1: at why, but that's kind of my best guess. And
42:55
Speaker 1: you can also, it's also highly possible that, I mean,
42:59
Speaker 1: we know that Melchizedek was at the very least a
43:01
Speaker 1: type of Christ from Hebrews, we see that, but
43:05
Speaker 1: At the same time, it's quite possible that Melchizedek was
43:09
Speaker 1: an appearance of the pre-incarnate Christ, which, um, you know,
43:14
Speaker 1: is the way that I, I lean pretty strongly.
43:17
Speaker 1: Um, things that it says about him that he had
43:19
Speaker 1: no parents and things like that, makes me think that
43:23
Speaker 1: the appearance of Melchizedek after Abraham had had rescued Lot, um,
43:29
Speaker 1: that that was actually Jesus in his pre-incarnate state showing up,
43:34
Speaker 1: and so he wouldn't have necessarily been just hanging out
43:37
Speaker 1: there all the time.
43:39
Speaker 1: He might have just come for that particular event, and uh,
43:45
Speaker 1: so yeah, it doesn't say anything about when er when
43:49
Speaker 1: he met Melchizedek, that Melchizedek had a temple or a
43:54
Speaker 1: place or a particular location, it's really vague about that
43:58
Speaker 1: because it it likely was just Jesus showing up on
44:03
Speaker 1: that moment.
44:04
Speaker 1: The reason I could see why if he was in
44:07
Speaker 1: fact a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus, why he wouldn't show
44:10
Speaker 1: up with Abraham and Isaac would be because it would
44:16
Speaker 1: mess up the picture because Isaac being sacrificed was actually
44:22
Speaker 1: a picture of of Jesus.
44:24
Speaker 1: And then, you know, God's going to provide the sacrifice
44:27
Speaker 1: Himself a sacrifice, and so it it could have messed
44:31
Speaker 1: up the, the whole imagery of the thing if Jesus
44:35
Speaker 1: shows up, but then here's a son being sacrificed also,
44:40
Speaker 1: so it's much neater for him to just not show
44:43
Speaker 1: up at that point.
44:45
Speaker 1: Thank you for your question, Tom. 888-564-6173. John in Los Angeles,
44:52
Speaker 1: who listens to Pastor's perspective on a podcast. What's your question?
44:58
Speaker 2: Yes. So, I'm following up on a question from the
45:01
Speaker 2: other day. I read, listened to one of your podcasts,
45:04
Speaker 2: someone called about boundaries and they spoke to someone, uh,
45:08
Speaker 2: it sounded like it was a stranger for over 6 hours,
45:11
Speaker 2: and kind of the response was that the 6 hours
45:13
Speaker 2: was too long.
45:14
Speaker 2: Well, on, on one hand, I, I do agree with that.
45:16
Speaker 2: I also think about what if it's a person that's
45:19
Speaker 2: suicidal or struggling in that nature, um, wouldn't it be
45:24
Speaker 2: prudent to talk to them as long as necessary? And
45:28
Speaker 2: I also think about the story of, uh, I can't
45:31
Speaker 2: remember Jesus talking to someone for that long, but Job's friends,
45:35
Speaker 2: they came and they sat with them. And I think
45:38
Speaker 2: they went back and forth for days.
45:40
Speaker 2: If I remember correctly,
45:41
Speaker 1: yeah, but they'd be a bad example because God rebuked them,
45:45
Speaker 1: so they were miserable comforters, so you wouldn't necessarily want
45:49
Speaker 1: to be them. But you know, it's a great question.
45:52
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no rule. You just have to seek.
45:55
Speaker 1: You know, what's God leading you to do? I'll, I mean,
45:59
Speaker 1: I'll tell you flat out there, I've had 6 hour
46:02
Speaker 1: conversations with people, um, but in general, I wouldn't say
46:06
Speaker 1: that's a that that that it became much more fruitful
46:11
Speaker 1: because it went longer. Sometimes you just get dragged into
46:15
Speaker 1: something and and it's hard, and having a conversation with
46:18
Speaker 1: somebody who's desperate or
46:20
Speaker 1: Who's suicidal, you also have to resolve yourself to the
46:24
Speaker 1: fact that, you know, you can't keep them alive because
46:29
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you talk to them for 12 hours,
46:32
Speaker 1: that's not going to make them more likely to live.
46:35
Speaker 1: It's their choice, not yours. But in general, and I
46:40
Speaker 1: didn't hear the particular call that you're talking about, but
46:45
Speaker 1: I would say you shouldn't have rules about talking to people,
46:48
Speaker 1: you just need to ask God to lead you and
46:51
Speaker 1: guide you, and one guy might be led to talk
46:55
Speaker 1: to somebody for 12 hours, and I've certainly had conversations
47:00
Speaker 1: with people at different times, um.
47:03
Speaker 1: For long periods of time, but at the same time,
47:06
Speaker 1: there are, you know, many more times when I let
47:09
Speaker 1: the conversation go on longer than it really needed to,
47:13
Speaker 1: and it really wasn't accomplishing anything and we were just
47:16
Speaker 1: talking in circles. Um, in general, if I had a
47:20
Speaker 1: six hour conversation with someone,
47:22
Speaker 1: I'd be the one thinking about committing suicide. But, but, uh,
47:26
Speaker 1: you know, I think, John, you, you make a good point.
47:30
Speaker 1: There's no rule about it. You need to just seek
47:32
Speaker 1: the Lord and sometimes you have a conversation that dominates
47:36
Speaker 1: your day, and if God's leading you to do that,
47:39
Speaker 1: by all means, do it.
47:41
Speaker 1: Um, at the same time, if some of it has
47:44
Speaker 1: to do with who's doing the talking. If I'm having
47:48
Speaker 1: a 6-hour conversation and I'm doing most of the talking,
47:52
Speaker 1: then that's probably in the flesh, and that'd be my guess.
47:56
Speaker 1: For me it would be anyway, but if, if I'm
47:59
Speaker 1: listening to somebody for 6 hours, that's different. Um, that
48:03
Speaker 1: might be.
48:04
Speaker 1: More fruitful or productive. So, but yeah, I don't think
48:09
Speaker 1: there's a hard and fast rule, but I think it's
48:11
Speaker 1: legitimate to at least whoever questioned that on the radio program,
48:16
Speaker 1: to at least say, I don't know if a 6
48:18
Speaker 1: hour conversation is necessarily the most productive use of your time.
48:23
Speaker 1: That's a good point, but there might be exceptions. I've
48:26
Speaker 1: had them.
48:29
Speaker 1: Trying to remember all the details. I think this was
48:31
Speaker 1: on yesterday's show and somebody called to ask, uh, he,
48:34
Speaker 1: he met this woman, I think, and she called him
48:38
Speaker 1: one day and just talked to him for like 6
48:41
Speaker 1: hours and there was no, like he was trying to
48:44
Speaker 1: give her advice on what to do. It wasn't a
48:46
Speaker 1: suicide call necessarily, but he felt the caller felt that
48:50
Speaker 1: The caller to our show, I should say, felt that, um,
48:53
Speaker 1: she was just venting, that he wasn't getting anywhere with
48:57
Speaker 1: what he was trying to tell her, and he felt
49:00
Speaker 1: like in that 6 hours, she totally dominated the conversation,
49:04
Speaker 1: like probably 80% of it.
49:05
Speaker 1: And he couldn't get a word in edgewise and he's
49:08
Speaker 1: just like, is this where, is this a good place
49:11
Speaker 1: to put up boundaries and should, and I think it's
49:13
Speaker 1: only happened once. If now if she calls him on
49:16
Speaker 1: his phone, he probably just ignores it, lets it go
49:18
Speaker 1: to voicemail or something, and I don't know. Justin, what
49:20
Speaker 1: do you think?
49:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I mean, I, I heard part of that.
49:24
Speaker 1: I thought their answers were good yesterday, and so, um,
49:27
Speaker 1: I would, you know, and, and then also with Dave,
49:29
Speaker 1: there are going to be situations that, you know, warrant a,
49:34
Speaker 1: a more sensitive approach to the call. And when it's suicide,
49:39
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few things that kind of go
49:40
Speaker 1: through my mind if someone's calling me suicidal, and that's, um,
49:44
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of assessing how, you know, do
49:46
Speaker 1: they have a plan? Is there something concrete that they're
49:49
Speaker 1: going to do?
49:50
Speaker 1: Um, there are suicide hotlines and people who are trained
49:55
Speaker 1: professionals who, um, you know, really specialize in, in that
50:01
Speaker 1: six hour conversation. And so, you know, getting someone closer
50:05
Speaker 1: to that, that's where fruitfulness kind of can can be
50:09
Speaker 1: you leading and guiding them towards the right tools. And
50:12
Speaker 1: so if you're headed into a conversation and you're not
50:16
Speaker 1: equipped to help them, you know.
50:18
Speaker 1: Um, a few short, quick things are help them find
50:21
Speaker 1: a suicide hotline. You could be googling that as you're
50:23
Speaker 1: talking to them. Um, find out if they have an
50:26
Speaker 1: actual plan. Find out if there's a way that you
50:28
Speaker 1: can get them around people they know, you know, just
50:30
Speaker 1: a safer environment where other people can keep an eye
50:33
Speaker 1: on them.
50:34
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes just sitting and talking doesn't really, doesn't
50:38
Speaker 1: really provide the fruitfulness that you're actually looking for in their,
50:42
Speaker 1: in their situation. And so I kind of, I kind
50:44
Speaker 1: of run through those things all while talking to them
50:47
Speaker 1: and kind of, you know, also listening to them and
50:49
Speaker 1: hearing them out, seeing if God wants me to be
50:52
Speaker 1: that person. But, um, yeah, look, look for tools that
50:56
Speaker 1: you can use in a suicidal situation that'll really help someone.
50:59
Speaker 1: Um, instead of just sitting there and going, OK, well,
51:01
Speaker 1: our time's up, bye, you know, and good point, and kinda,
51:05
Speaker 1: and the suicide hotline is 988. It's like 911, but
51:08
Speaker 1: for mental health situations you can call 988 if anybody
51:12
Speaker 1: needs that. John, thanks for your phone call today on
51:15
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective. Here's Mitchell in Corona. Hello, Mitchell, how can
51:18
Speaker 1: we help you?
51:20
Speaker 2: How are you doing this morning, this afternoon? Sorry about that.
51:23
Speaker 2: That's all right. Um, yeah, my, my question was, uh, uh, vulnerability.
51:30
Speaker 2: I know that a lot of times.
51:32
Speaker 2: Uh, we walk around unders not understanding everything that we've
51:37
Speaker 2: learned from the Bible, but, uh, when you have pastor's perspective, um,
51:43
Speaker 2: it just helps, uh, people to understand better that we're
51:47
Speaker 2: all vulnerable, that when we surrender to the living God,
51:52
Speaker 2: that we could be able to understand that Jesus is,
51:54
Speaker 2: is our advocate to, for us to get through and
51:56
Speaker 2: maneuver through that. And uh I just like to thank, uh, this.
52:01
Speaker 2: Ministry that's on the radio. So, um, the, my guess
52:05
Speaker 2: what my question is for me, the, the things in
52:08
Speaker 2: my head really come a lot about what I should have,
52:11
Speaker 2: could have done. But basically, uh, in a nutshell, I just,
52:15
Speaker 2: just thankful that I could be able to, to talk
52:18
Speaker 2: to people who are like-minded, and I would just want
52:21
Speaker 2: to encourage people that are listening that, uh, we don't
52:23
Speaker 2: have all the answers, but Jesus does, and, uh, I
52:27
Speaker 2: just like to hear, uh.
52:29
Speaker 2: The perspective for both pastors about how um
52:32
Speaker 2: Someone can learn
52:34
Speaker 2: To be unselfish.
52:38
Speaker 2: OK,
52:39
Speaker 1: so which of the two of you is the least selfish,
52:40
Speaker 1: and then maybe that would be, I think Justin for sure. OK, Justin,
52:44
Speaker 1: 90 seconds, 90 seconds, um, you know, honestly, uh, to,
52:49
Speaker 1: to wrap it up in 90 seconds, I, everything I learned, um.
52:55
Speaker 1: I see in greater detail and clarity, the more I
53:00
Speaker 1: spend time with Jesus. And I know that sounds kind
53:02
Speaker 1: of cliche and I know that sounds kind of easy,
53:03
Speaker 1: but honestly, if I, if, if there's any trait that
53:06
Speaker 1: I need to grow in, if there's anything that I
53:08
Speaker 1: need to be more of, if there's any character, um,
53:11
Speaker 1: if there's any fruit I need to develop.
53:14
Speaker 1: Um, how do I produce that? Honestly, I abide in
53:17
Speaker 1: him and I spend my time with him and I
53:20
Speaker 1: focus on him. And the more, I mean, I know
53:22
Speaker 1: it in my life, and I think anyone here who's
53:23
Speaker 1: walked with the Lord knows that the more that you
53:26
Speaker 1: spend time with Jesus, the more you are unselfish, the
53:29
Speaker 1: more you are, you know, under control with self-control, and
53:33
Speaker 1: the more the fruit of the Spirit tends to
53:35
Speaker 1: Become a part of our lives, the more we focus
53:37
Speaker 1: on others. And so, um, that's where I get all
53:40
Speaker 1: of my change from, you know, it's him and, and,
53:44
Speaker 1: and sticking to him. And so if I could wrap
53:46
Speaker 1: it up, I don't know, maybe give Dave time too, but, um,
53:50
Speaker 1: that's me. Yeah, you know, I was thinking.
53:53
Speaker 1: Justin and I teach alternating Sundays, and we both write
53:57
Speaker 1: discussion questions for our home fellowships that discuss them, and
54:02
Speaker 1: so often those questions give people an opportunity with each
54:07
Speaker 1: other to be able to share and think and consider
54:10
Speaker 1: and just being in fellowship with others and talking about
54:14
Speaker 1: God's word and how it applies to your life personally,
54:17
Speaker 1: I think.
54:19
Speaker 1: Almost every week when I read Justin's questions or when
54:22
Speaker 1: I see my own on my weeks, it's like, boy,
54:26
Speaker 1: the great thing about this, it connects people with Jesus,
54:29
Speaker 1: but it also just helps people to mature as we're
54:34
Speaker 1: all in this together and we're hearing each other's stories,
54:37
Speaker 1: how God's working in each of us. So being in
54:41
Speaker 1: really good fellowship, being connected with people is super important.
54:45
Speaker 1: The thing about abiding in Christ is, yes, it does
54:48
Speaker 1: sound cliche. We hear it all the time, and I
54:50
Speaker 1: think people say, no, I want, I want like a
54:52
Speaker 1: twelve-step program or something, something that's gonna, you know, but,
54:55
Speaker 1: but ultimately that's what it is basically it's, and it's some,
54:58
Speaker 1: it's got to be something simple so that we can
55:00
Speaker 1: comprehend it, right? Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's, uh, there,
55:04
Speaker 1: it's not automatic. It takes time. It takes, it takes
55:08
Speaker 1: growth and
55:09
Speaker 1: You know, you go through it over a period of
55:11
Speaker 1: time and the Lord is really faithful at leading us
55:15
Speaker 1: from where we are to where he wants us.
55:18
Speaker 1: Mike, uh, Mitchell, thank you for your phone call today
55:20
Speaker 1: here on Pastor's Perspective, and that's all the time we
55:23
Speaker 1: have on today's episode. Thank you all for watching and listening,
55:25
Speaker 1: whether live or on a podcast. We're gonna be here
55:29
Speaker 1: again on Monday if you've got any questions for us.
55:32
Speaker 1: Thank you to Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric from Calvary
55:35
Speaker 1: Chapel Pacific Hills and Aliso Viejo for joining me today.
55:38
Speaker 1: We'll see you at church on Sunday and talk to
55:40
Speaker 1: you again on Monday right here on Pastor's Perspective.