Latest / Skin Anarchy / Dianna Ruth, co-founder of MILK makeup

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Dianna Ruth, co-founder of MILK makeup · Skin Anarchy

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and I am super excited about today's guest because this is one of my favorite makeup lines, if not the favorite.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Diana Ruth, who is the co-founder for Milk Makeup.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Diana.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's truly my honor, and I I can't wait to learn everything about the brand, but I really want to start off with your uh journey in beauty and just how you came to this, um, the whole process.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I always love products since I remember, I think my earliest memory is age seven, and I my dream was to be a manicurist because I just wanted the cart with all the stuff on it.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just wanted that cart with the polish and the puffs and all the stuff.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've always loved product.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I never knew that as a kid, though, I never knew this was a job.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't even that wasn't uh in my kind of world.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I really would say I found cosmetics as a industry in college.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to FIT.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was studying uh fashion merchandise management as my associate's degree, and fashion just wasn't for me.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: What I realized at that moment is I I loved the behind the scenes, I loved the manufacturing, the logistics, the warehouse, like all of those parts of fashion was what excited me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't the clothing.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like a fashion uh, you know, person.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um so but I like the kind of nitty-gritty behind the scenes.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I learned about there was a major at FIT called Cosmetics and Fragrance.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was formulations and marketing.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: That was the title at the time.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, I was like the second class that ever existed um at FIT.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I applied to to be in that program, and that's really where I really would say I fell in love with beauty, cosmetics.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: That that um major was formulations, packaging, displays, marketing, like every aspect of this industry in a college program.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just it was amazing.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, a very small class.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was 13 girls.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and all girls, all girls, all girls at the time.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: We were the second class, and it was amazing, and it really kind of opened the door for me into the beauty industry, and then for the last um 20 years, I've been working in beauty exclusively, doing everything from kids' cosmetics, men's.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've even done dog shampoo, everything.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've done everything, every kind of product you can imagine in beauty.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have done.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, color cosmetics is my favorite.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I've done skincare, hair care, I've done all kinds of products.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I love it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been doing product development operations side uh of the business for the last 20 years.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, like basically, you had all of this information coming into before you even created your brand.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I went to college for it.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked milk makeup is also not the only, it's not my first makeup brand.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've worked on 20, 30, 50 other brands before I got to milk.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of take bits and pieces of each of them or things that didn't go right or things that you liked or whatever.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, the next adventure, it's kind of like your career.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like each step teaches you something, and then you get to that next step and you use something you had the last one, you know.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's definitely been my career path is like learning along the way and using it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I use a lot of it now at Milk Makeup.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, though.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like that, and I think it's important to, you know, highlight that the experience side of beauty is so important because there's so many brands I think that come out and there's this is their first brand.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they haven't done what you've done, they haven't curated the industry like you have in a way, and looked at what's really this missing piece.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I want to actually um you know talk to you about how milk came about.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was the, you know, what was the story behind the um you know formation of the of brand.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Of the brand, sure.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So so Milk Studios existed before Milk Makeup.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something that me being a beauty person, I didn't really know Milk Studios.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I just know beauty brands.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And but fashion, Milk Studios and photography, Milk Studios is the leader and still is the leader, really, in that arena.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So Milk Studios has been around for 20 years.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And my our CEO, um Rossi Georgie, who's one of our co-founders, she was at Milk Studios running their video division um called Legs at the time.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then Rossi is uh running Milk Studios.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: His wife, Xana, was also involved.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the three of them actually came together and came up with the idea of doing a makeup brand before I was ever in the picture.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they all were brainstorming together saying, Hey, we should do a makeup brand.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: They came up with the concept to of a makeup brand.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: They went to Sephora and said, Hey, we have this concept.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then Sephora was like, This is a I love the concept, but where's your product?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then the people at Sephora said, You should find this girl, Diana.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: She does product, and then that's how I got introduced to the group.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I I was not there at the or the origin of the concept, but I was there at the beginning of the company and kind of what then took then shaped what our products um and packaging and all that would look like.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the it's so really like the studio, milk was a studio, you said.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what was the so what was that process like going, you know, shifting from that professional makeup artistry into something more commercialized where consumers can buy these amazing products that, you know, they make your skin look the same, you know, like professionally done at the end of the day.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think it's um I think it's it's interesting because it was that kind was that um because Milk Studios was a professional photography studio, the makeup brand though was not for the studio use.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: The makeup brand concept was really for like that the creative people that worked there.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't really about the model and the perfect look behind the camera.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was about the kind of creative community that worked in Milk Studios.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the so the product and the performance and the effects of the products was more for this kind of norm, I don't want to say normal, but like working creative New York City person.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not this very high fashion model life.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was a different um different thought.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Democratic, you know, different concept, yes.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I that's what I want to know, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, so when you were formulating the line, I mean, what were some of the things?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's for like, I guess, you know, person like me, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Average consumer.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So like I want to know, like, when you were coming up with, like, for example, the concept of what you wanted in the products and what you wanted to come out with, what were some of the pillars that you um kind of designed your entire product strategy off of?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So the pillars would be um, we knew we wanted to make it clean, vegan.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wanted the packaging to be very unisex and clean and modern.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think myself, it was interesting.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I did not, I did not come out of Milk Studios.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was a guest there.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was I entered that community and I wasn't I was coming from beauty, the average, you know, average mom.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not, I wasn't, I didn't feel like part of that group.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I definitely think I was building product that worked for that group, but also could work for the the girl who walks into Sephora, like yeah, and this what I used to say to Sephora and people I would meet who were like, Well, what is milk studios?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: What is milk makeup?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can you explain to me?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say, everybody, every person, every girl has a little milk girl in them, and that might be like that little thing, you might wear something a little different, or you have a little edge, or you're you don't want to take so long getting ready.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's something different or something unique and special about you that the product line is really for everybody, and there were definitely the pillars of like the clean, the vegan, the cruelty-free.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: That was all there.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, made in USA.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there were definitely key things that I knew I was building into the line.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and application, I would say the other factor was like we were not using brushes, like this was not a makeup artistry line.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Makeup artists love the line, but that's not who we were building it for.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so your idea of making this more like a functionally like it makes sense, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you put it into a bag or you put into a purse, like the average consumer can just use their products and not have to worry about the extra fluff of it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you mean?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was the design?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no nonsense.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like no nonsense, easy, not too complicated, just anybody can use it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how like I want to know because this is a very uh I know a random question, but how did you guys become the face of like because I, you know, when you watch like keeping of the Kardashians or you see milk makeup, it's always associated with this high this high profile, you know, image, and it's in a good way, you know.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that in the in the best of ways, but like how does that happen?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how does that happen?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um how does that happen?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how did you decide that that's gonna be, you know, the direction you guys go in?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because at this point, I look at milk makeup and I see it as like a luxury makeup line in a way, a lot of ways, because it's trusted by a great names, you know what I mean?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's yeah, I mean, I would say two things.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: I would say there's two factors that probably aid in being perceived like that.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: One is the partnership with Sephora, being in Sephora and the credibility they have as a retailer, the reach that they have from social media, from e-com, from all of their platforms.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in Sephora, you are seen as a prestige makeup line.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that that is definitely true, and that is why I think we are seen how we're seen to a certain extent.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely the Sephora connection.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: We also do have a very talented um in-house influencer team who is seeding our product to influencers who are super well known, love the brand, and are um in line with the brand's kind of ethos and you know, our kind of charitable stuff.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're in line with us from a social standpoint, community standpoint, and and they post videos and stuff.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that builds that buzz, that kind of stuff you're seeing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's a combination because you one without the other wouldn't be as strong.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I think that's interesting how you mentioned influencer, um, the influence sector of the marketing.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually want to talk to you a little bit about that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how that's approached in terms of um finding the right influencers or like what's the process of that?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've never really truly understood it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will so the first thing I would say is I'm definitely not an expert in influencers.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to do a deep dive chat about influencers, I was I would recommend talking to Max.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's our who's he leads that team for us.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: He's on the West Coast, and he could tell you everything you'd ever want to know about influencers as a business model and community.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say we have a team who connects with influencers across lots of different genres.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So they might be skincare influencers, they might be really artistry um driven, they might be lifestyle, you know, wellness, like yoga people, like all different types of influencers.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: But the core thing, and I think the hardest part is making sure that they're the right fit for your brand, you know, making sure that they are in line with what you believe in, not, you know, we've all seen the horror stories of these influencers who are crazy people and saying inappropriate things.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really got to be that gut check that, like, are you really, you know, who you say you are?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you stand research?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of background research.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I would say it that's why with Max, he is fostering these relationships over decades with people.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how then he feels okay, connecting them to this brand because he knows who they are, you know.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it is, it's a it's a relationship, and you really want to make sure you're making the right choices.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, I want to uh say this because as a consumer, um, this was my really my initial feeling when I first got into like your makeup line.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I when I approached it and I saw it in Sephora, and you know, I was really like looking for, I think, for a concealer at the time.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I can honestly say approaching that area of Sephora and like going through your products, I felt more comfortable because it was so transparent.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were giving what you promised.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like especially something as small as like trying to find your perfect shade in a concealer or a foundation, it can be so daunting because there's not enough transparency.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm trying to say?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like the packaging is just messed up looking, or it's just too, you know, like there's four ranges.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's crazy.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to say as a consumer, I think you guys, you know, even from the first time I saw you, it was being done right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, how was that?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like the research behind that and coming up with this idea where everything it was an inclusive line, you know what I mean?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: You were really hitting um that area of marketing or whatever I guess that falls into.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: How is that?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like so a couple things.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're you're touching on kind of um diversity and inclusion and shade range.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're also talking about merchandising, which is on the gondola, which is something also I I oversee is all of our fixture um process.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's two things.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's simple and it's hard.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I it's weird because like to me, it's very simple, but to some people it must be hard.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you just have to be a you know what it's like to walk up to that gondola, and you know, when you which is what the little display is called, you walk up to that gondola, yeah, and you're a person shopping.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, for me, I've got a kid hanging on my leg.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to find my concealer.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like just tell me, like, I also like I want to see the concealer through the tube.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want to see the true color, I want to see the shade dot.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I want if the shade dot on the display, if that formula is a matte finish, then I want that shade dot to be a matte finish.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want if it looks shiny, I'm gonna think the foundation's shiny.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's very actual, it's very simplistic, it's detail.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, one of my oldest bosses, and I actually think it's a famous quote, it might be Leonard Lauder who said this, but retail is detail.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is once you know that retail is detail, and it is the small details that, like you're saying, a consumer like yourself, you notice that those small things, you might not even notice them all, but you realize it's easier.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why was it easier for you to pick your found your concealer here than somewhere else?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just those little details that that helped up, they add up, they add up exactly.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: They add up, and um, I think also with the shade ranges, it's all testing, you know.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's honestly it's kind of like saying, Okay, I'm gonna we have a team of 40 women in the office.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're how many different skin tones?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna send that formula to every single person who is in that skin tone in my in my company.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna also at the lab who made it, we're gonna try that on every chemist who's in the room that day.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love that.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that that you're going to real people and ask for real feedback.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no, and and you know, for me and you were talking and it's common sense, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: This makes sense, but that's what confuses me.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many brands out there that this is not common sense, it's not built into the framework of their brand.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're trying to come out with new shade ranges, or you know what I mean?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like go on the inclusivity wagon.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, listen, you can't hire one person of one shade range, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you if you want to make shades for an Indian woman, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take my race as an example.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can't hire one Indian woman and say, Oh, okay, we check that box off.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's I think the difference, I think what you said early on the call is something that for me, I you know, my whole life has been in beauty.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you I've been doing this for so many years.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've done so many concealers.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know what you have to do to get it to the right place, do the right steps.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's some people who maybe are not doing all the right steps.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's certain things you do need to do, and just I mean, skin, it's I would say shade matching is one of the biggest challenges.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: That is the biggest challenge for a consumer, that's a big challenge for a brand.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Something it takes a long time.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when it comes to the process, you just you can't skip certain steps.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and I mean, I think also as a brand, we want to be inclusive.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we want if we show imagery of inclusive people, but I don't offer a shade in their skin color, like that's not appropriate.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's false advertising.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it actually is false advertising.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so so your imagery should match your your assortment.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, I want to know when you were coming up, like excuse me, when you were coming up with which products you wanted to come out with, um, what was your main fit focus?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what did you want your first set of products to be?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like, you know, um complexion products, like, you know, foundations and concealers and stuff, or how did you uh approach this?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know you guys have a killer primer.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so I would say if I flash back to six years ago when we launched the brand, the first things we came out with were the blush sticks, the lip and cheek sticks.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they're still here to this day.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Those were, and it's also like I was a fan.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a you know, I grew up in like the mid 90s.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um in the high school, I would say by that point.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm older than that, but I wasn't born in the 90s.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, high school in the 90s, and Tarte had launched at that time, and they had these cheek sticks that I loved.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: They were stained, they were gel stain, and I love them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I got to milk, I just was there was something about the ease of a stick, again, the portability, the ease, the kind of like throw it on your face, run out the door.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: That that to me was like super important to have in the line at the launch.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I also felt which this kind of it's funny funny.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't said it in this wording, but when we launched the brand, yeah, because I didn't know who our community would be, yeah, I didn't feel comfortable doing complexion.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when we launched, we actually didn't have a foundation.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't have enough data to do that yet.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you if you go back six years, we had a couple, we had some concealers, but we didn't have any full face product because I really didn't have enough information um to know who they were and what kind of product they would want.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, so what was the first product on the makeup?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: You got the first, um, the first products in complexion was skin tint, was our skin tint tinted moisturizer.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: That was our full full face skin tint, um, like a BB cream tinted moisturizer style product, and we did that in eight shades.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's very sheer, kind of like BB creamish.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the first products at launched that were non-complexion were the lip and cheek sticks.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: We also had the cooling water stick, which is that bright blue stick that's for like depuffing under the eye.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great product.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of sticks, a lot of sticks in the beginning, I would say.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the blurring stick is one of my favorites, you know what I mean?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I saw that product, it was so I was just, you know, I'm a huge geek when it comes to makeup and skincare.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I saw it, I was like, this is perfect.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I could put it in my bag, and you know, it was so good because I hated the idea of like powders, you know, carrying out a around a powder if you have like oily skin.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when I saw that product, I was like, this is efficient.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really like this.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hate powders too.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, I'm not a powder person.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I and blur stick to me was kind of like you could use it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: I also like stuff that you could use two ways.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you could use blur stick just as like spot on oily, you know, T-zone.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: You could also do it all over your entire face to give you this kind of like soft focus effect.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it was versatile, and it also could speak to a really full-faced girl who wants like full face primer underneath their foundation, or a girl who wears nothing and just wants, you know, a little blurring around her T-zone.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely multi-use products is something we I we at Milk try to build because it gives versatility um for people.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when you guys were, you know, really like in the mainstream, and what was the some of the feedback that you got that maybe helped you improve?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, did you guys go out and like survey the consumer population or the makeup artist you were working with, you know, for I guess recommendations or any critique?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: What was that part of the process?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um very early on, I would say the best feedback we got was from Sephora, Sephora reviews.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I used to stay up all night long reading, it was probably very unhealthy, but I would stay up all night reading the reviews because now it was like we'd launch a product and people would write their comments.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was so interesting to me because I also love that, like, you know, when you go on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sephora, you type in your kind of your age range, your skin type.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was information there that I could now see, like, oh, this person who's in their 40s is saying this, this person who's in their 20s is saying this.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so the review system on Sephora definitely gave us tons of feedback and did kind of tell us, hey, this is kind of like if I had lots of reads that were saying I don't like this, this is dry, or the feedback that, hey, this doe foot is this applicator is no good.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, definitely feedback course.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: We would then course correct as we could.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: When we saw that, when we saw things that the you know client was was liking or not liking.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, Sunshine Skin Scent is the perfect example of that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: That product we launched, people loved it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: They love the formula, but the packaging sucked.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was like jamming, sticking, like that package just it like it was a push button, a push-button rollerball.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the little button would like stick, like it just, it just didn't work perfectly all the time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was some that were great, but there were some defects in the package, but people love that formula.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually just this year, or when I don't even know where we are right now, two months ago, we relaunched that formula, revamped it a little bit, made it better, and a whole new package, and with a refill now, because of sustainability stuff.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like, yeah, people are so happy because they're like, we that people love that formula.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think brands sometimes like change things really quick, yeah, or kill things.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And like for us, it was like just really digging into the detail of what does someone love about this?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: What do they not like?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And can we correct that?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just really you really gotta dig in.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, right before this call, I was on it's so funny you mentioned the concealer because I was on a call right before this discussing our flex concealer and kind of like, hey, do we want to revamp this?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do we want to tweak, change?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: What are we feeling about this?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and just talking about it from from multiple people on our team's perspective field team, sales, marketing, planning, PD, like getting everybody's feelings, and then we'll, you know, just talk about it as a group and see.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Then we look at the reviews.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we gather the information.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a holistic approach, really.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Very holistic, yes.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, this is this is where I have a question because I think you're the perfect person to ask this because you clearly your line is a reflection of, you know, your own ideology, right?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you the inclusivity and diversity aspect is really built into uh Milk's, you know, overall, I think, uh, foundation.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to know from your just your opinion about like, for example, a year ago, there was a lot of talk about how do we introduce brands to the idea of new shade range or like new colors and the, you know, in in whatever they were talking about, foundation, concealer.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, how would you approach a person, say it's a consumer with a lot of influencers that comes to you and has suggestions?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you guys have a whole team that deals with that, or how are those kind of things dealt with?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you're saying if an influencer or someone has ideas for how how to build shade range?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you know how like a lot of brands will say, Well, I want more information, or if somebody has like feedback, like, oh, I can't find my range.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, you know, people will go onto the brand's website and blow it up and you know, leave negative comments.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: But uh my my you know curiosity is in well, where's the constructive feedback being, you know what I mean, incorporated?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do you guys deal with that?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a good it's such a good question.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually we have a system.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have a system that is through our website.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, if let's say you go on our site, you purchase, you want to buy a complexion product, and you buy something and you're like, hey, this is not my right shape.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: We fully let you return whatever you want.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: If that person then is like, hey, wants to take the next step and write into our customer service.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Me and Jess, who's my VP of product development, there's only two of us.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we have Hannah, who's a PD manager.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: So there's three people in the product development team, um, operations and you know, separate, but doing pure PD.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's three of us.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the customer service person, Andrea, who's our customer service lead, she would get an email and say the person would say, Hey, I bought this, it's not the right shade for me.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then Andrea, we tell her, ask them what shade they do wear.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have a you we have a huge Excel sheet that Jess keeps where she like logs in, kind of like, let's say this person was like, Hey, medium tan didn't work for me.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: I wear Marc Jacobs number seven, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: We bank it in a document that then when we're having conversations like I just said said we had today, when we're looking at a family like Flex Concealer, we pull from that data and say, okay, let's go back.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any shades we're missing?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Have we gotten lots of customer service feedback that we're missing a shade with a pink undertone?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, like in a specific category of a specific category when it comes to our customer service.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's one channel we get information from.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: We also definitely get feedback that we log from our field team uh who's out in the stores at Sephora that are interacting with clients, get live client feedback.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: They give us recaps after every store visit.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I also have just a general email called PD ideas at um milk makeup, yeah, where anyone can write in an idea or a comment or say I love that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like whatever, any any person, any part of our company.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So someone in finance, any part of our team, and we're not a very big, we're like 50 people, so we're not a huge company, but still ideas come from anywhere, and you can give feedback about hey, this didn't work for me, I'm looking for this shade, uh, whatever.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and we we me and Jess both get that email and we check it.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I get them every day.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how we kind of can get data from our website from the Sephora stores and then our own team to help make sure we're we're hearing if there's any need for different shades, changes, or or changes to any product, actually.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I love that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you have so many avenues that people can really connect with your you know, with your brand.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think that's very, very important.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of companies where if you if I reached out, I can guarantee somebody like you would not be answering.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: You listen, customer service.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: I write to people all the time.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: When people shop on the site, I write back sometimes.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really love that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun, it's fun for me.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Also, it's it's very close.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why not?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if someone spends a you know, a couple hundred dollars, I'm gonna write back and thank them, you know.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I I don't know what they think, but it we do do it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, I actually want to know because in the market where you know, I think now shade range is like a thing, and I, you know, I guess we can stick to that as the example.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in no way saying, by the way, everyone listening, because milk is one of the only lines that is very inclusive, in my opinion.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, I I'm not saying this about milk, but in general, as a founder, I want to ask you, like, you know, when you have something that you really need to correct, how hard is that from uh, you know, logistically like going back to the lab and saying we need this many more products in this range?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is that whole process?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it really hard and daunting?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or um, what are all the details behind that?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not um, it's just time and money.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not that it's any harder than any other thing.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think if you have a good base formula in any form, if we're talking about kind of shade extensions, you got a good concealer base, you got a good foundation base, to expand shades is just a like it's kind of like the process we spoke about earlier.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, okay, well, what are those shades gonna be?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you're testing them on skin, testing them with flash camera, like doing all the stuff, building more shades is totally um, it's just time of like getting the shades right and then the money to build that inventory.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's not um, I would say it's not it's not more complex than a new SKU.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually in my mind, it's easier.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's doing shade extensions is easier than a brand new item, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right from a development standpoint.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I mean, so then it shouldn't be like because you know there's so much fuss, right?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like this this whole thing, this controversy that was kind of ignited, I think, on social media.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: There was this huge buzz about it for I I think more than a year, which I was very confused about.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I even asked you that question because I'm like, well, if it's really a problem, why is it so hard for big brands to go back and be like, we made a mistake, let's correct it, you know?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's just an inventory, it's definitely there's the inventory piece, the logistical piece, but adding more SKUs, it's it's and it definitely affects the fixture, kind of like how are they all fitting on the fixture?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need to delete?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are logistical challenges, yes, but if you boil it down, there's what is the goal?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: If the goal is to be more inclusive from a shade range standpoint, then you just have to remember that's your goal.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then these other things are just stuff you kind of have to move along to be able to give that to your client, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, one question I do have is because uh, you know, we're talking about makeups, and I think this is um very interesting for me, especially as a woman of color.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't buy my makeup from one line, right?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think most of us don't.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, one thing I really enjoy about um Milk's products is that I can pick any other products and they're very easy to work with.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, they're easy to work with all my other products from different companies.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were um coming up with, you know, again, formulations or just the idea, you know, were you guys considering that um in terms of the, you know, I guess, you know, easiness of working with other products that people have.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's something we always do.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um when we're building a product, if it's a any product, I would say, we look at what are the top sellers in that market.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give an example.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when we were building those eyeshadow sticks, yeah, the color chalks that we just launched.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: The color chalks we made sure worked with the top-selling eye primers.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have an eye primer, but like we will then make sure that it's going to work with the top-selling eye primers.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I will caveat at Sephora because that's where we play.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm not testing every eye primer in the world.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm testing bestsellers at Sephora that they work with our shadows and the same thing with our primer.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, like hydro grip primer, yeah, making sure that that primer works with the top foundations, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so that's probably why, like you're saying maybe you don't, maybe you use hydro grip primer, but you don't use our foundation.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay because we probably tested it with one of the foundations you might wear to make sure they all play nicely, especially with primer, and that's a great example because primer I know it can be like beaded up, or you know, you can have issues if it's not primer.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: It like yeah, beads, yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I and that's not that's never been a concern with you know, I and I but I love that primer by the way, the hydro.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, thank you.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's one of our top top items.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think Jackie Ina actually for me said it on the map too because I love her.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when I saw her rape, I was like, yes.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so I want to talk to you a little bit um more about just you know, going forward, like I know you guys are really into you know multitask products, and I and I really love that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of makeup, I'm always confused because I think when companies come out with like um a foundation, there's 15 other people coming out with the foundation at the same time.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So can you tell me what the issue with that is?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is that like something that just it's a market thing, you know, the best month to launch a foundation or something?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: There are definitely there is seasonality.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: I will say there is some seasonality to the makeup industry.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Although it's, and I would say it's kind of like the example I always give is if you're gonna launch a waterproof mascara, it's probably gonna be pre-spring, spring summer.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like there is seasonality, a full coverage foundation.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're probably gonna launch that in fall, not the summer.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, based on seasonality, brands do seem to kind of all come out with similar things at the same time because that's when the consumer is typically looking for that item.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one factor.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: The other factor is retailers.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So Sephora's and Ultas, they do kind of campaigns, let's say it's not the really the right word, but like programs, we'll call them, where they're gonna talk about full color lipstick.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: So then brand all the brands who were gonna do a full cover color lipstick, they're all gonna throw them in that one month.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's probably why, from a consumer standpoint, you see this kind of pile of similar stuff.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it could be seasonality or it could be retailer driven because that's the focus for that month.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's easier to focus on a concept and then let the kit customer pick and choose the brand they identify with, but the but the marketing can kind of all be around a concept.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, interesting.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I want to know, like, you know, for you specifically for your brand, how do you deal with all that that that saturation of you know the beauty market at a given time?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, when you're launching your own product, how do you sift through that and say, well, you know, this is how I'm gonna make sure that our brand gets noticed above everything else?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, can you go into that a little bit?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so it's tricky because I'm I'm I'm not so I'm I come up with you know, with my team PD, we come up with the concepts.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're working on concepts about a year away from when they launch.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a year or less, really.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm working on something, I don't know what's gonna happen in the future, and I don't know what other brands are doing.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have no idea, I have no visibility to it.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you're kind of working on something running towards this launch date and just hoping, honestly, hoping that no one else beats you with that concept.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's scary, and you're kind of like just hoping to get it out there and be the first.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so then when you do that, then really it's the marketing team, the marketing departments we have who need to execute and educate and cut through all that clutter with messaging so that our product does our product's points of difference um stand out.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's very hard.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's honestly it's the big it's very hard because I have no visibility of what anyone else is doing.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of you're just operating blind, you're just hoping.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can imagine, and and I know that's a very difficult question, you know.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I I always wonder that because I think that there's you know different things that play into that, right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, trust is a big thing on the consumer end.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: If like I know I trust your brand, so I can go there and say, I can pick out this, this, and this product because I trust this brand and I know they're doing things right, and I think that's a huge part of it, obviously, for consumers.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: But um, also more importantly, do I like this better than this and this product?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, sometimes for me, I can honestly tell you when I first um was looking into you know more complexion products from you guys, I remember going into Sephora and like, you know, I'm that person who walks in and says, give me some suggestions.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, give me some suggestions.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember the person was like immediately went to um, you know, your your area, the Milks area, and I was like, Okay, you know, this is new.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like very, you know, she walked right up to it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a huge for me, that was a huge, like, okay, vouch of confidence, you know what I mean?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: A vote of confidence, like, okay, this this is something that I should trust.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for for me, I want to know, like, when you work with the Sephora team, is there something built into your, you know, your work with them where they're more likely to recommend Milk's product, or is that not part of the no, it's actually um, it's not part of the they actually, the people in the stores, the cast and um beauty advisors, yeah, they're supposed to stay, you know, they are just supposed to recommend what's right for the the customer, the client who walks in.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: They are not told to promote any brand.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's not allowed, actually.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're agnostic, they are just supposed to listen to your needs and direct you to the right place.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's words that clients could use that would maybe make them bring them to us versus someone else.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all about making sure you're getting the right product.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's all Sephora cares about you getting the right product.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it doesn't matter what brand.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's actually what's beautiful about it because it's kind of like if I walk in and say, I'm looking for a fake tanner, yeah, uh, blah, blah, blah, they're gonna bring you to a section and then they're gonna say, Okay, do you have sensitive skin?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: What's your issue?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Blah, blah, blah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they kind of help you sift through the choices.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's no, they're they're not supposed to, they're just supposed to listen to you, and then based on maybe any information you give them about your lifestyle, your ingredient preferences, anything, then they guide you to the right, right place, right brand for you, right product, I should say.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I I want to know then, like, so you have come out with so many products already.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that you think is a space in makeup that needs to be filled?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And are you working on something that you can share with us?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not too many details, but um I think there's still a lot.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think there is definitely oh, there's so many things.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there's tons of things.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think um I would love to see.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think the acne space is not yet tapped.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not working on anything right now.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just personally passionate about that, and I think there's room there.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's something there that I kind of keep coming back to.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and making acne ageless is something that I also feel passionate about.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got nothing working on uh, but it's just something I always I'm like, there's something there.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh I think there's room in the market, I should say.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think when you come in, especially into a prestige, let me also clarify in a prestige retailer, yeah, that's a category that's not they're not a lot of people covering it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would also say I'm happy that I think that the trend of lighter, sheer textures is happening more, and I think we're gonna see more of that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, coverage and also like give me the coverage, but make it feel light is what the is what I like.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm happy that I think we're achieving that in certain things, and I hope other people start because I the you know what it is, the technology is catching up, the formulations and the and the technology from the labs can now give you coverage but make it feel light, and that's honestly what I think most people want.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, let me, I want to talk to you a little bit about sustainability because I think that's an area that really needs to be covered, especially from the makeup end, because obviously there's a lot more consumers who are buying makeup, and you know what I mean, you throw it away or something.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you as a company like you know, what what is your entire vision about sustainability and um how have you, you know, incorporated that into your brand?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a huge thing for us.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've been working on it, I would say, in every factor of our business for at least two and a half, three years now, I would say is when we really started kind of like honing in on what does this mean to us?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I and we're honestly we're still shaping that.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, right now we partner with a company called How to Recycle.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're they're really well known.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're they basically you send them your products, your boxes, your packaging, your plastic components, everything.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: They then come back to you and say, Okay, this can be recycled or this can't.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then we as a brand have chosen to be fully transparent and put that on our packaging.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the customer buys the item and opens it and can clearly see this can be recycled or this can't, and like is what it is.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it the issue, the thing that I've learned, which was very eye-opening, is by misrecycling, like by wrongly recycling stuff, you're actually making you're polluting the stream, like you're making it worse.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: So education is the first step, it's just kind of saying, like, hey, this can be recycled, this cannot.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what how to recycle helps us communicate to our community about for our products.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Then every time we make a new item, yeah, we look at that skew and think, how can I make this more sustainable?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we use PCR, non-virgin plastics, we're using fully recyclable paper boxes, paper labels, soy ink, like every single thing we touch, we try to make as low impact to the planet as we can.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um we also are our display in Sephora, we cut like 30% of the plastic out of it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have like recyclable dot com packaging.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: So every aspect of the business, we're doing tons of stuff.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um in lots of different, it's all little small choices, but it's it's all the like every time we make a choice, we're making the most sustainable choice we can in every aspect of the business.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that that's that's the question I have mostly is like, you know, sustainability is I think a huge buzzword for brands these days.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I'm very interested in how, you know, how can we really say how sustainable a brand is, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're either 100% sustainable or not.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I feel like that's a very difficult question, and I think it's a lot of burden for entrepreneurs because you obviously want to come out with a brand and say, listen, this is exactly how sustainable we are.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when it comes to promoting this about milk, right?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do you approach that?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: How do you let consumers know that we are very, very um, you know, heavy on the sustainability side and you know, use that as a as a way to make, you know, connect with them?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's honestly something we're still figuring out.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's really why like we're doing all these things and we have been for years, but we've never really publicly presented it in a way because it is complicated, and we're our thought process is just kind of like, let's be transparent.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna tell you exactly what amount of recycled plastic we're using, recycled paper.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Every item is different, also.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we just share that information.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's on, you know, our product pages.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're right now we're just sharing the information, we're not really like positioning it.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would say we haven't really like made it a pretty story.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like this is what we're doing, and I think it's we're we're figuring it out how to share it because it's super important.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, also to go back, like we get tons of questions.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's what's interesting.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Our community is definitely in cares about sustainability.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: They will write in and say, like, well, what percentage recycled plastic is this thing?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we write back and tell them.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're communicating about it on a very one-on-one level.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't like done a whole takeover on our website and really in detail gone over it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're actually working on that right now, potentially for like April.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna be doing a focus on it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think to talk about that.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're working on the position, the kind of positioning's not the right word, but like we're working on the storytelling behind it, but it's it's truly just it's making every small decision the best you can.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's how we that's the that's the theory I have behind it.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, every decision I'm faced with, we what is the best choice we can make?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's one step at a time, right?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that makes sense, Damn.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm actually uh it's I'm glad you said that, and I'm glad I thank you so much for being so transparent as a founder, first of all.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's very rare to see.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm actually curious because I was just thinking about this when you're you're explaining that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is how do you feel about a brand, say for makeup, for example?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like how how easy would it be if there was like a recycling program kind of inbuilt to like a Sephora or like a you know a major retailer where you're buying or even the brand's website where people can send back, you know what I mean?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're like used um empty bottles and you know, all that.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's some so there there are some that exist.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's two companies.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there's one company called TerraCycle, and then there's another company called G2.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sephora actually partners with G2 behind the scenes.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's something so people can turn in product, let's empty, empty product, empty bottles, packaging.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can bring it into Sephora or and then they put it in the a G2 is the company name box.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're based out of Indianapolis.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually a fascinating company, and they in a green way incinerate stuff so it's completely clean, and they power half of Indianapolis with the energy they create.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like fascinating.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's G2.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, like with recycling.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they so let's say an example, like we use G2 also at Milk Makeup.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say we have um we are gonna be selling products in Australia, let's say, and we got to update our box.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: So now we've got 10,000 paper boxes that we gotta throw out because they're no good, they're not the right um information anymore.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Called G2.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: They pick the stuff up, they dispose of it in a green way.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: So there's lots of uses for G2.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's the company called Terracycle, which is really what you're speaking about, where a consumer, anyone, it's actually you can do it right now, terracycle.com, print out a label, put in your products, empty products, any brand.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: You send it to TerraCycle, and you can like earn points and stuff.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so there are sites that do that.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's the challenge for us, is definitely kind of like there is a cost associated with it.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to be doing a certain amount of volume to partner.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: And right now, that wasn't the right, especially after this last year of COVID, it wasn't the right fit for us to partner with TerraCycle.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's why we chose um how to we chose how to recycle from a labeling standpoint.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: We would love to partner with TerraCycle down the road.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: G2, we are partnering with from a like a large-scale um disposal process, but they're those are two super amazing companies that are facilitating um the proper recycling of beauty products right now.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know about that actually.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just go beyond to something new, yeah.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's beautiful.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm glad that you're, you know, you're definitely taking the right steps towards it.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that can definitely, just as a consumer, I think they can expand on that.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you, if I go into Sephora and there's a place, you know, even a like a recyclable box or something, and it's like, you know, you drop in your products there and then it's sent or call you call G2.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sephora ends up calling G2, and you know what I mean?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's happening definitely.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do it.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually behind if you go behind the the store, there's again, it's just kind of like at what scale are they talking about on a consumer level yet?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they're there yet because everybody's still kind of navigating these waters, but those those things do exist, and I think in the next years or we're gonna see a more kind of that'll become the norm of how people recycle these products.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also I think it builds into repurchasing too from a brand.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and I think this is something that brands can really utilize to like you know increase sales in a way, because if you if if you have a foundation, you love your foundation, you run out of it, but you have an easy way to connect with the brand and say, I'm gonna send this back.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's some sort of a refill option, they get like, I don't know, 5% off their order or something.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's for me more like practical, if that makes sense, you know.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: And also yeah, definitely.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we so the skin tint, like I said, the one thing we just came out with, we actually did a refill.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, the beauty of the refill is not only yes, by buying coming back, you buy the one, great.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: When you need to refill, you can just buy the refill and it's ten dollars cheaper.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you're saving money, like it's also you're you're saving plastic, yes, sustainability, 60% of plastic, awesome.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: But you're also over time, you're saving a ton of money because you don't need to rebuy that whole thing, right?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's like a win-win.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like good for the client, it's good for the planet.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's it's harder to engineer those things up front, yes.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: But here's here's the thing, though, you know, and I'm gonna say this uh uh very bluntly because I think this is genuinely what's going on in the consumer space, okay, and why there's like a niche for people who like sustainability and why the rest of people are not really on this bandwagon, it's because it's the amount of out of the way you want to go as a consumer, you know, that's how I see it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, and I think if you if it's made, it needs to be made more accessible to the average consumer rather than being this like you know, um lifestyle, you know, decision that you have, which is sustainability, right?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna you're gonna be more.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that whole idea has not, I have not seen that done beauty yet, where it's becoming more, you know, accessible.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, refills are wonderful, and I think it's a great great place to start.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I would love if we could see that more.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the average consumer, you know, they want to be involved, but something like sustainability or doing something good for the planet, I think it's a very, you know, it's multi-layered, right?
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the whole experience of going and recycling something, the whole experience of knowing you did something to be more, you know, to practice sustainability.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that plays a huge role in like habits that consumers have.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, thank you for answering that.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was a huge question I had.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so going forward, what's next for milk makeup?
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are you guys coming out with something new or yeah?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so we're right now we are finalizing our fall um 21 pipe, which we launched in September.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: I can't share what the items are, but we have some super fun stuff coming.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Some stuff kind of what I referenced before of like textures and coverage and interesting things in that realm.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we always have new stuff coming.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have fall and holiday that'll be launching in September and October of 21.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then right now I'm also I'm working on, you know, through the pipeline plans for 2022.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's where we're kind of ideating, brainstorming, looking at what our client needs.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean, we're always launching new products.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something you know, I'm passionate about.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's always there's still more for us to add to the makeup bag.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's exciting new technologies and things that I think people will want to see.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely more new stuff coming from us.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to seeing all the new launches.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and everyone listening out there, if you have not checked out Milk Makeup, which I think is very, you know, highly unlikely.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have not, please go check them out and leave us some comments, some feedback on the cover art for this episode.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions for the entire team at Milk Makeup, let us know and I will pass or you know, pass it along.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much, and this has been such a pleasure.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you both so much.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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