Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5 E27 - When a Firefighter Becomes an Arsonist_ The John “Pillow Pyro” Orr Story _ Part 1

Transcript

S5 E27 - When a Firefighter Becomes an Arsonist_ The John “Pillow Pyro” Orr Story _ Part 1 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello, birthday princess.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Hello, thank you, thank you everybody. I got a tiara
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: and a fortieth fabulous sash on.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Since that's because you are stunning and it's your birthday week,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I just realized I should turn my ring off. I
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: do think you should wear a tiara daily. It looks
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: so good on you.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I doo hi emo, shit him, I think so too.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking since it says forty, I should just wear
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: it every day for the next year, like really good.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: My money's worth it. And it's really good quality too,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: it is, I think. I mean it's sturdy.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I have mine sets fifty five and fabulous and it's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the same thing on Amazon and it is really good quality.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I mean I even wore it in the pool.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, and it didn't change out. I told Albok
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: he had to be careful because he put it on.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And then I also got this really fancy wine glass
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: that well you can't see, but it says stuff about
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: forty and I was like, you are not allowed to
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: even be in the same room as this wineglass.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Are you saying he's clumsy and he would break it?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Is that what I hear?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I have a bunch of stimless wine glasses
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: for a reason, and he still breaks those. So I
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: was like, you're not allowed.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: You're not You're getting out of a row one tonight too,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And looks like we have lady in gray motion to
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: scream here you've had a busy day.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I have, Yes, I've been watching Court all day and
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: now we're here.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Birthday week, so I should probably, you know, do the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: thing and say hello everyone, welcome to another episode of
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: true crime in one time. I am tiery true crime.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: In case you didn't know that and you just showed
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: up and you accidentally. Can you imagine if someone accidentally
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: landed on our channel, they see you and Tiara and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a sash, they see this crazy lady in old librarian glasses.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I mean they they get what the This actually all
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense for us.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So it does. So just stick around if you're new here,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: because it will make sense. Okay, now we dive into
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the most draw. I can never do this jaw dropping
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: true come stories and dark stories while sipping something smooth
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to take the edge off. So guys, I'm gonna tell you,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: pour a glass of something cold. Doesn't have to be wine,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: but it helps. But it's gonna get hot tonight. Okay,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: lock sleeping doors, people, lock your doors. Okay, I heard
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: someone in my nameghborhood someone broke into their house.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: No, thank you.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Last week. It's a delivery person because their front door
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: was unlocked, so.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: The delivery person went inside a house.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, who does that? Exactly? If your door's locked,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: they can't come in.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: But still I don't like that.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Well I don't either. I think they knew it was
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: an old person living there. But let's uncork the truth
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: behind a very dark, dark story tonight.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's a two parter tonight, guys, by the way,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: but we'll get to that in a second. Because I
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: want to thank you all already for watching tonight before
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: we begin. Do I need you all to do something
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: for me? I need you to hit that like button.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Let everybody knows that we're live, that we're celebrating Lama's birthday,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: which we'll be celebrating tomorrow as well. We're just going
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: to celebrate it all the time every day because we're
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: probably not. If you haven't yet, please hit the subscribe
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: button to our channel and hit the notification bell so
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: you never miss when we go live or drop an
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: episode because we are always busy up in here. There's
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: something going on like every day, always pretty much. You
• 4:12
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• 4:15
  Speaker 2: you all sorts of exclusive perks for as low as
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• 4:28
  Speaker 2: leave a rating or a review, whatever the platform you're
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: listening to ask you to do. It helps our little
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: pod out so so much. And it's free. And share
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: on social media too, because sharing is caring. Sharing, Yes, Terry,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: why don't you give them a little sneak peek of
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: what we're going to be talking about tonight.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: So, guys, tonight we are literally going into the inferno
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of hell. I did not pick this case. No, you
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: did not, I did. I did in this case has
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: fascinated me for so long. But if you don't know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: we are covering the case of John Orr, who is
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: a firefighter, he was a fire captain or a fire chief,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I don't remember which right now, who was an arsonist
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and it's the psychological which we're not going to get
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: into a lot tonight. But in part two I have
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: added probably a good two pages about the psychology behind it.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Good because I want to really talk about that, not tonight,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: but I am ready. I'm ready to talk about this, man.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, and that's one reason why I was very
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: interested in this case. Because of that.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I'm fixing a sash. I've never worn one before.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Probably a hint on the sash. If you get a
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: little bobby or not a Bobby pinac fafty pen, go
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: underneath your shirt and pin it right here on your
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: shoulder like this, then it'll stay while you're dancing.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Oh so you don't pin it at the bottom.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: You pin it at the bottom. Two, but you do
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: it on the top where it slides off your shoulder
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: when you're dancing on the bar at Coyote, Ugly it
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: falls off.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: You know me so well, Terry, Hell damn Hello.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna have to work tomorrow night because there
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: might be some dancing involved.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Dance what okay? All right, I mean, I'm going I'm
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: wearing this to court tomorrow when we show up for
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: couch court with Lama at nine five am tomorrow, I
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: will be a.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Sporting that is Eastern time.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: People Eastern time, yes, earlier for you guys and my sash,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: so I'll be wearing this all day because my birthday's
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: officially Saturday.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Girl, I've got to teach you how to celebrate birthday
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: week and then we'll start next year with birthday month.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Birthday should be more than just one day when you're fabulous.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I agree, I've earned it. At this point, I decided
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I've earned a wear a tiera every day.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you are the big four to zero.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Don't tell me what I can't do. That's from my
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: lasty friends. Well, uh, Terry, what are you? What are
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: you drinking tonight?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So tonight I pulled out something I hadn't tried before.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I've got a couple of bottles of it. It is
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a twenty eighteen Apollini couve Pino no War. They say
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the toast tasting notes are red fruit and black cherry notes,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: and they offer supple flavor and elegant tannin structure. Now
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to embrace fall by pulling out the reds,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: even though it's still a hella hot in Texas. And
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I have to say, very seldom do the tasting notes
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: nail it for me. They nailed it. I taste some
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: type of red fruit, but I definitely taste black cherry,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: but I also get a little bit hint of spice.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So this palm fruits are there from Oregon.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Strawberries, apple, these cherries rab ray berries, but those aren't
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: really red. We all know that. They just call them
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: red if they're not. Stop the games.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we need to do a show on the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Oregon and I'm going to reach out to a couple
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of wineries there because I have really got two wineries.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: This one. I'm loving that. I like an organ.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Oh I hate to do this in public, but we're
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: going to have to fire Lady and Gray just to
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: let you know happening. She watched all of season six
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: of Loss without us fired.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, I believe that on the merch
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: order I have to do tonight. I think she wont something.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I think we may need to redraw that. Well, you
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: know I'm not going to do that. And the reason
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: why she owned up to it infests true. That's true
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: because I will tell y'all a little secret because I
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: know Double H isn't watching tonight. We do not we
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: have certain shows we don't watch without each other. Chicago
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and Law and Order. I watch them without him and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: just don't tell him, and that I act like I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: don't know what's going on.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I've done that too, We've all done that.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Lady and Gray says she wants her slippers. So, Lady
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and Gray, you are gonna have to take some feet photos.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: When you get those, I'm going to take some better
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: pictures of me and my midday missing leggings. I have
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: decided since to travel to my company event, I need
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: to wear pink because our company colors. I'm gonna wear
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: my midday missing leggings.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I love that, and I ordered me some new black
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: sketchers to go with them.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: So I need to know what you're drinking, because Sammy
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Sunshine thinks you're drinking the elixir of youth.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Well, that is a very kind of you, sam. Well,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: since it's my birthday birthday weekend, it's my weeking birthday
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: week as Terry licks to call it, I'm not drinking wine.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I went for the hard stuff, so I got a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: bottle of astral tequila, which is a brand that elbow
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: feet and I usually pick. It's pretty smooth. I don't
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: really do shots.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Anymore.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: But if you do, you could pretty smooth. You cut
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: in the free. Yeah. Well, my used to be shot
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: of choice was patron chilled with lime lime juice.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: My we I used to like patron, but now lollow
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: is what a thing gets called lollow. It is smooth.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: There's no like that. Like I could sit and just
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: drink it and drink it. You don't even need lime.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Nice. I mean, I don't do that anymore, but you're close.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Your mine still fall off.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: And that's how I have my little lama. And then
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I also have a Jose Quervo Tropical margarita mix. Although
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: if you thought he grabbed the mango on which is
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: my personal faith, but instead he grabbed a tropical, which
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: is it's all right, but whatever, I'll drink it. I
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: don't okay.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: When you said that, I thought you were telling me
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that you mix tequila's. So now that it's the margarita mix,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I feel much better.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean it's Hose Quervo, so there is
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: tequila in it as well.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: And then you add at this is going to be
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: fun night.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Of course, how else does one drink margarite? Always add
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: more to guila?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So dote I'll tell you that's a strip for you.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I use vodka in my margaritas because then my clothes
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: stay on.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Well, that's too bad for age age.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it's just me and double H, I do.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: But like if I go out with the.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Girls you, Oh well, I'm not making any promises for
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: our listeners tonight.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's not happening. I got Okay, keep your clothes, it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: all I'm asking.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I got a sash too. Anyway, you know
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: what with that, Let's get into the story of John
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: or before we go places we don't need to go tonight,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: shall we? Oh?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Boy, you are right, Sammy. It is the pregame party
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: before the party party.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: That's right, all right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: His nose is so red. It's a black and white picture.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: But look, you can just tell it's red.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I guess, so, yeah, that's true. That's true. Maybe it's sunburnt,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I know, all right. So let's talk about John Leonard Orbs.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: He seemed on the surface like an ordinary family man,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: don't they all, don't they all? He was born in
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty nine and grew up in Los Angeles, later
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: serving in the United States Air Force. After his service,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he dreamed of becoming a police officer, applying to the LAPD,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: but after failing the entrance exam, he settled for other work,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: eventually taking a job as a security guard in a
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: department store where he had a knack for catching shoplifters. Now,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to start off right away. How hard
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: could an entrance exam be in the seventies? I mean,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: even now they're not that difficult and we have a
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: much higher standard. How were they so difficult in the seventies.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I kind of wonder did they have some type
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: of psychological exam as part of the entrance exam? But
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: then again, I think maybe back then they didn't.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know, I don't know how. I
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: don't know how, but he did so that that you.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Somebody can find a copy of the entrance exam from
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the seventies and we could take it and see if
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: we would pass. Yes, Yes, she's so community. That is
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: so great at finding things, and Jim talking to you
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: because if you could find that, because would that not
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: be a fun thing to do next week for part two?
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. I don't know what interest exams and tails.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I just feel like from the seventies, it probably was
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: not as as not as robust. No, no, it's not
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: their own shade. It just was the time, right, you
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: know so?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But guys, he he was still determined to make a
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: career in public service. So John Orr entered the Glendale
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Fire Academy in nineteen seventy four. I'm guessing their entrance
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: exam was a little easier, so he did graduate as
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: a firefighter.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: What it's crazy to me, I feel like firefighters like.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: That would they don't have as many laws to learn
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: as police officers.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I guess so.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: But he graduated as a firefighter and soon proved himself
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: capable and ambitious. Now, by the early nineteen eighties, he
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: had built a reputation as an aggressive enforcer of fire prevention,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: often going after homeowners who ignored weed abatement. Now those assholes,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at him there. I would say, normally
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that would irritate me. But considering it's California, you have
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to freaking do that people, you have to so fair pass.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: California.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So okay, But he was passed out there, stubborn, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: he had the drive of someone who still wanted to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: be a cop.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Hm. Right, seems a little power hungry, a little authoritative yearning,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: if he will now to friends and neighbors, or appeared
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to be a devoted husband and father. He lived with
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: his wife and their two children in Eagle Rock, which
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: was a suburb just northeast of Los Angeles. His colleagues
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: sometimes saw his family at department events, and on the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: outside he played the part of the family man who
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: had worked hard to provide stability and a respectable career
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: for his wife and kids, which yes, that is more
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: than a respectable career, of course.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And a lovely house, Essex say. In a lovely house.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that little privacy patio with the lattice
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: they got going on there.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's adorbs.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I did too. Look at that old house car in
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: the driveway.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: What are Pepper Potts, Pepper Potts.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Angie is like, Oh, Pepper Potts, Pepper, that's Marvel. Okay,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: that's that's Tony Stark's wife and girlfriend, Pepper. But okay,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I thought we were we're going to be doing We're
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: going to be doing a Marvel marathon soon. I'm making
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: it happen in the discord on the courtyard. We're going
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to start with Marvel. We're going to do it all, okay,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: freaking love it, And I got a bone to pick
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: with bells, so I'm making it happy.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Oh well, then this go on because we don't want
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: to pick any bones with bells tonight.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: That's true. But behind the domestic picture was a man
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: restless for recognition. Firefighting was not enough for some reason.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, how why nobody hates firefighters, you know? But anyway,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Or craved the investigative side. He immersed himself in the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: psychology of arsonists. Hmm, interesting, writing articles and studying cases
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: with a passion most colleagues didn't share. He spoke at
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: training seminars, trained new investigators, and enjoyed the spotlight when
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: people praised his ability to detect considerary devices. In nineteen
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: eighty one, when Glendale formed its first arson investigation unit, Or,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: of course, was the standout candidate. Interesting.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Interesting. One thing I did not include in our notes
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: is that no other firefighters wanted the roles. They wanted
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to fight fires. So he truly was the perfect candidate.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Because gotta think he wanted to be a cop, couldn't
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: make it, so this was his way to be a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: fire cop. But yeah, I had no other cops because
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: you didn't have your normal shift two days on, three
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: days off, those kind of things. You It was a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: different schedule.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I mean that, you know, investigation's not
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: for everybody either.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It's not, but it is for Severai. Sorry, okay, that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a Chicago fire thing. Y'all have your marvel and lost stuff.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I can throw in my Severai every now and then.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It's fine, I'll allow it, thank you.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Now. It was a dream position. He finally had the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: detective's badge he had always wanted, and oh my god,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: that was crazy. And for wow, and for years it
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: seemed he was thriving. Okay, Glendale's arson's clearance rate rose
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: inn Or earned respect as a top fire investigator in California.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So he was described as diligent, always willing to show
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: up at fire scenes even when he was off dude duty. Dude, dude.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: The other thing about red wine, it hits me so
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: much faster.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: That it does that it does.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: In fact, I haven't even drunk a glass and I
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden am feeling it. Wow.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm so nervous about tipping this glass over.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: But he was fewed as someone who took his job seriously,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: but those closest to him later admitted that something darker
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: simmered under the surface. His marriage was strained, eventually endingan divorce. Now,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: his drive for attention, his obsession with fires, and his
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: long hours all created distance at home. I get that, yeah,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I mean I any wife of a firefighter, police officer, military,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you got yeah. Y'all are amazing because I couldn't do it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I'm too needy. Now, his colleagues also notice an intensity
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in him that sometimes felt more like ego than dedication.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I agree. He wanted to be seen not just as
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: a firefighter, but as an expert, a leader, and in
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: his own mind perhaps a hero.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: What could have been? What could have been? If that's
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: exactly probably what he would have been remembered as. I mean,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: he continue to look at that photo.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I mean this guy right, yes, but he looks respectable.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: M But you know, power and ego do crazy things.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Now, lady and Gray said something. Let's see. Oh I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: can't click on it. There it goes. I think he
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: didn't have the power that cops have, or the true authority,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: well not necessarily the case, so they do have. Fire
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: investigators have a lot of the same authorities as law
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: enforcement officers in California. He could arrest an arsonist or
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: a person.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: They can, Yeah, they can arrest people here, but the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: head not like a regular.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Ye, but you could. So in reality, the man who
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: swore to protect his community was secretly betraying it because
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he is a man. But while his family believed he
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: was working to keep people safe, or was setting hundreds
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of fires himself. Guys, you heard me, Let me get closer,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: hundreds of fires himself that destroyed property, devastating neighborhoods, and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: ultimately took innocent lives. Guys, I'm going to warn you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: buckle up because it's about to get insane. So I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: suggest a big glass of wine or something cool to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: drink garrita, because it's going to be hot and it's
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: just crazy, and I am going to try to keep
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: my rants in check.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, remember too, we have a part two.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I remember that. That's how insane the story is. That
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: it really does take two parts to tell this whole story.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, Cap, and he likes Shiny's shoes. He was in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the Air Force.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Oh that Thomas Sweat Arsenis case. So we covered a
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: couple months ago, unforgettable. If you have heard that story
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: of that arsenist, please go find our Thomas Sweat.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so when did we do that?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I want to say late May, June, June. I think
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: it was. It was a doozy, It was a jozy. Well,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: you guys. So October tenth was a hell a busy
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: day for the firefighters. Okay. So on October tenth, nineteen
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: eighty four, that's right, your little lama wasn't quite into
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: this world yet. It would be a whole nother year.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Or had been called to a small fire at Albertson's
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Market in Pasadena. It started in a rack of potato
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: chip bags. Yeah, potato chip bags. Who knew the oil
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and packaging making perfect fuel which I did not? Did
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: not know that or determined it was intentionally set now
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Or left the Albertsons fire and on his way home,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: while driving through Raymond Hill in South Pasadena, Or saw
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: the chaos on fire Or on Fair Oaks Avenue where
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: the Ole's home center was burning hot, and Or being
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: a firefighter, stopped and although he didn't have his gear
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: in his personal vehicle to assist with the fire, he
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: started taking pictures because he often used live fire pictures
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and videos in his training seminars, which makes sense to me.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: This is a picture of the the Olie's fire. By
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the way. South Pasadena Fire Chief Jean Murray saw Or
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: at the fire and asked him if he could go
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: check out the report of another fire at Vaughn's Market.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: So this is three, right? Are we up to three?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Already?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Albertson's, Ole's and now Vaughn's O one to not.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And I call it alays well, it's O. I know
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: it's but I spell. It's just me. We have Ali's wich,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I do because I call it Ali's. While the Allie's
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: fire was steadily growing, Or reported to the Vaughn's Market
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: fire just three blocks away from Allie's. Now Or investigated
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and said it too, began in a rack of potato
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: chip bags, like the Albertson's fire he had reported to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: earlier that evening. Now he once again declared at Arson
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: after his investigation, Oh wow, that yeah, I mean chip bags.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: They have changed what the bags are made in now
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: so they're not as flammable. But back in the day
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: when I was in Girls Scouts in the seventies, one
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: quick way to start the campfire was with the back
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: of potato chips.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I imagining, Wow. For you know, we really need to
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: work on making one of those. Somebody put that on
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: one of our to do lists for this weekend. By
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the way, I think it should be me and Terry
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: riding a rainbow to a star. That says, the more
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: you know, the more you know. That just went out
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: there for a creative team. Okay, not that you don't
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: have enough stuff to do, yes, something like that, but
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I want to be riding the rainbow in the star.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah okay, and then cappens right a little wasp spray.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: But you know what, back in the day, aquinet, you
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: could light a torch with the Aquinet and a cigarette lighter.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, can we side bar for just a second,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: you said, lunette, because you know, I'm from the country
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: and that's where people used to burn trash. And I
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: remember being very little, like under five or six, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: there would just be like this big burn pit at
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: my grandparents' house and my boy cousins would take the
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Aquinet kids just like like light light stuff on on fire.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Uh so, yeah, that definitely checked out.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I did that in my house. And I will never
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: forget the switch that my dad made me go cut
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: off of the front tree.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Mmm.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I got a whoopin.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I bet you know what because I didn't learn from
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: it on the wall. You didn't learn from it, did you?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Well maybe you did. You did it outside. But you
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: remember when you were in Ohio and I.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Started that fire. To make fires, you used spray. Yeah,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you got fire started. That's how I with that. But
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I do it safely now.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Amos and I were just sitting there like that seems
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: like a horrible idea.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys. The wood was wet, it was everything was wet,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: so it needed some heat. Okay, it needed some heat. Now.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: While the always fire, like I said, he reported, there
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: was another rack of potato chips. He declared it arson
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: after his investigation. Thankfully, like the Albertsons fire, the Vaughn's
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Market fire was easily contained and incurred no less of life,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: thank goodness. Unfortunately the same could not be said for
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: the devastating Ali's Home Center fire.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: The Olies Home Center in South Pasadena was quiet on
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: October tenth, nineteen eighty four. The eighteen thousand square foot
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: hardware store set at a very busy intersection, but many
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: people were home that night watching the World Series between
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the Detroit Tigers and the San Diego Padres. Big deal
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: during the time, guys, remember we're in the eighties. People
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: stayed at home and watched all the sports, so it
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: was a very big deal. At around seven thirty PM,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Billy and Ada Deal arrived with their two year old grandson, Matthew. Inside,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: employee Jim oh Deim noticed smoke rising from a display rack.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: At first, there were no flames, only a dark pillar
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: of smoke thickening rapidly. Jim ran through the aisle, shouting
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: for customers to get out. Way to go, Jim, Billy,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and Ada were separated. Billy saw the smoke racing towards him,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: but couldn't find his wife or grandson. The smoke choked
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: his lungs until he was forced to flee. Jim passed
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Ada and Matthew and the aisles, urging them to leave,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: but moments later a wall of fire erupted. Steel fire
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: doors dropped, cutting visibility. As the power failed, Jim crawled
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: on the floor until he escape through a rear exit,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: and his arms were badly, badly burned.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Guys, I have the biggest fear of burning, Yes, to death.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: So this just freaks me the.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: F out anybody else, I mean fires, I am not
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: to fuck around and find out it's honest.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I mean I like to build fires. I don't want
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: to be on the fire. Fires are scary as they
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: should be. Now the fire exploded into a flashover, igniting
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: everything at once. And that is just footage, real footage, Yes,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: there is live footage. Engines arrived within minutes. The station
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was only three blocks away, but the blaze was already uncontrollable.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: The roof collapsed, trapping to anyone still inside. By the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: nights in four people, we're dead. Add a deal age
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: fifty two. Her grandson mat Matthew Trudell too.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Oh what a cutie.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Settina, seventeen, employee and promising baseball player. Carolyn Krause
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: twenty five, an employee and mother of two ough. It
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: took one hundred and twenty five firefighters until midnight to
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: control the blaze.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: That sounds like an enormous amount.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a eighteen thousand square foot and they
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: had so much stuff in there that's flammable. It's like
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a bomb waiting to go off.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Goodness.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Now, investigators ruled it accidental, saying it likely was an
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: electrical short in the attic, and guys, I did not
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: know grocery stores had addicts. I mean, they're probably not
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: like attic addicts. Okay, then why do we call it
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: an attic? Can we just not stay in the ceiling?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I mean maybe they did.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't build these places.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: They because to me the attic, I'm thinking they're store
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: and stuff up there.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It's probably more like a crawl space I bet you
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: know sort of thing.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So we Okay, hold on, I can't see. But somebody
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: said they know this story. Sammy said she knows the story.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I try not to look anything up, but I recall
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: a documentary a few years back. Yes, I found out
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: there is a documentary. I have downloaded it and I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: am going to watch it on the plane Saturday.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, I see uh over in our our server, our
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Steff's her for Angie's found a twenty five fun tests
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: some for your police office selection tests. So maybe we
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: might have to do that to Mama.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: You weren't on midday missing, I don't think. But I'm
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: also why I'm in the LA area I am trying
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to go to these locations and take pictures of what's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: there now, and I'm going to talk to Scott at
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: dinner on Sunday night to see if he knows any
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: inside information since he lives there, and if he heard anything.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But I am going to go take pictures.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I'm very jealous that you've got to actually meet Scott
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: in person. I'll be honest. He seems lovely. Scott Hoover,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: author of Beverly Hills Noir. Yes, fantastic guy. He comes
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: on sometimes.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Any of us helped us with the Menindaz Brothers.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, we should just have him on just to hang out.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: We s facinating. Is he's fascinating?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: All right, you guys? Well sadly for this now in
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: this story now. Or went back to the Ali site
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: on his own and spent six to seven hours investigating
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the scene, which sounds totally normal to do. Why would
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: he not. He believed that the fire likely originated in
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: highly combustible polyphone products, which he said was the same
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: as the Albertson's and Vaughan's fire on the same evening.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Look at that devastation.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Oh goodness, no, but Lama, he was not the investigator
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: on that fire.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: No, but I can imagine though, like it's a huge fire.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: If you're going to want to teach other people.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: About I forget he's a teacher.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like to me, it makes sense for him to
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: just go. And I don't think this is that weird.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give I'm going to go with you
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: on that one.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: It's the a that they don't have the internet, so
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: it was still being created. Yeah, and this is and
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: devastating and I'm sure there were things to learn. But anyway, now,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: John Orr, though, was convinced that all three fires were
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: arson and was not happy when the Olies fire was
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: declared to be an accident. Okay, Or challenged Sergeant Palmer,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: the official investigator that declared the Olie's Home Center fire
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: an accident caused by an electrical short. Oh, we know
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: is wrong. But he began pushing his theory that there
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: was a serial arsonist in Greater LA and was not
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: quiet about it, or even discussed his theory with another
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: investigator from the LA Fire Department named Dennis Foot, who
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: trusted Orr and believed him and made him more aware. Hmm.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I mean I would have believed in he's a very
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: well respected investigator who I would have been like, dude,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I believe you. So I'm Dennis. I get it now.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Several days after the devastating Ollie's fire, another small fire
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: broke out about seventeen miles away in a North Hollywood
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: hardware store in the polyphone section, just like the fires.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: On October tenth, investigator Dennis Foot started agreeing with Or
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: that there could be a serial arsonist in the Greater
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: LA area. This pleased John Or immensely. Ivery dom Can
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I tell you when researching this the first thing I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: thought of when I was writing that comment. This pleased
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: him immensely. That it's like a kid on Chrism this morning.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, we'll get into the next We'll be honest.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I do like when people agree with me and I'm like, yeah.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I know, but yeah. So two months after the deadly
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Alays blaze, another ALWAYS location in Pasadena had a scare.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Staff discovered a partially burned incendiary device. Okay, I love that.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I put I had written a fire device because I
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: knew I would have trouble saying insendary advice and Captain
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: changed it back. Thank you, Captain, you just wanted to
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: make me have trouble pronouncing it, but thank you. Good job.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: So a cigarette and three matches bound with a rubber
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: band in a pile of polypoam. Now it had failed
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to ignite and had just smoked. Now, this type of
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: device is used to give the arsonist time to flee
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: the scene before the fire erupts. It takes roughly fifteen
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: minutes for the cigarette to burn down and light the matches.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Now we're going to see a video of a device
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: burning because I wanted to try this because I like
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: to do science experiments. And then Lama just let me. No,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: cigarettes no longer burn like they used to.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: That's true, they stopped doing that because of fires. Well,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: but here's an example of how it would go. Yeah,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I mean you could probably still, but you're not getting
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: like fifteen minutes. Okay, that's not happening, but yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I mean that to me. We's just yeah. So because
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the octobers our Ali's fire was officially ruled accidental, the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: December fire was not linked to it, despite proximity. Now,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: then just hit my brain, m and please tell me
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: my brain is just warped. Well, you think they wanted
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: to call it accidental, so that Allie's would be responsible
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for taking care of the families.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Mm ooh that's that's uh interesting.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Also, that just hit my head because if it's Arson,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the company's not responsible.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah to pay.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: That's see where my brain goes.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Hey, I don't think that's warped. That's no, that's been
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: a very interesting, interesting question. I don't know, because you know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: the thing with arsonist is they are serious. You don't
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: just ever just light one fire and be done. You
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: light numerous for a very long long time. And I mean,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: there just seems to be a lot of these. I
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: don't understand why this is not obvious to everybody, Like I'll.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Just play and I'll just wait. It's going to get more.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: But that's a good I wonder.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: But that I just wonder that.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: So I mean, hmm, that is now question for me
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: to ask Scott, and that is Yeah, I'm interested in it.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it. Now I might go down
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the rabbit home myself.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: In January nineteen eighty seven, Arson investigators from all over
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: California met up for a conference in Fresno. Now two
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: hundred and forty two conference goers attended with intendees including firefighters,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Arson investigators, insurance investigators, lawyers, and some police officers. Now,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I also just want to put out there if you
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: are a fire investigator or anything about this, I would
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: love to talk to you. I really would because fire
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: we don't talk about that a lot in true crime,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and I find it fascinating and I want to know
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: all about it.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: So I do too.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: It happen to be one, give us an interview, because
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I would love to hear it.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: If you know one, yeah, I want to.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: They just don't get as much coverage as police officers do,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: but they do important work too. Anyway, you would think
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: that while they're having this whole convention, you would think
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: that the area would be safe from fires because who
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: wants to start a fire near hundreds of firefighters and investigators,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: right Like, why would you do that? Well, if that
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: was true, we most likely would not be discussing this
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: case tonight. Would Wait, No, is that their logo? Because
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that's pretty bad ass. I'm going to be it is okay,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: like with the fire ring around it, and this is
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the fire ring. It's all right, Yeah, good job to
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: those people designing that. That's It's good.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Now. During the son of the conference, a fire started
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: at Payless Drugs in Fresno, California, with the fire starting
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: in a bin of sleeping bags. The store was outfitted
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: with the overhead sprinklers, which promptly were activated by the fire,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and the blaze was quickly extinguished, thank god. Now. The
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: very next day, directly across the street from Payless Drugs,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: another incident occurred when a customer noticed smoke rising up
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: in the corner of the Hancock Fabric store and alerted
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: the store employee. Now, they evacuated the store and all
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: stood outside watching as the store erupted into a full
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: burning fire that destroyed the building. This is live video
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: from that fire.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, all the video, I think most of the videos
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: we have tonight that were Yes. If you're listening on
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the podcast, please come to our YouTube channel, True Crime
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: in One Time. Yes, we do visuals for all shows.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: But this is massive.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I mean it was discovered by the firefighters that the
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: fire started in a storage bin filled with styrofoam pellets
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: that are used to stuffed beanbags. Ugh. I mean, guys,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I've been on the front line of a fire in
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: my emergency response thing, and I can tell you the
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: heat is insanity. Oh.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I bet and yeah, I could never have.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: A child now. Also, while investigating the remains of a
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: delayed device made from a partially burned cigarette with three
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: matches attached with the rubber band were found. The same
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: as the others.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: But nothing to see here, nothing to say, it's all.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: They're all. They're not the same. What are you talking about.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: They're in different counties, they're in different parts of California.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Now, just down the street at a
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: house of fabrics, an employee noticed burn marks on the
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: wall behind a bend filled with foam pillows. And guess
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: what else he found? Anybody guesses? Yep, it was another
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: delayed device made of a cigarette, matches and a rubber band.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: It was just pure luck that the device burned out
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: and didn't ignite and start a fire, like literally across
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: the street and then down the street.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: No coincidences, guys, because I don't believe in quinktings. And
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: these are fourties literally.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: On the same street. Oh my gosh, it doesn't take
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: a freaking rocket scientist. But now on the final morning
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: of the conference, because remember this is all going on,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: when all those firefighters and investigators are all in this
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: exact area. On the final morning of the conference, a
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: fourth fire broke out, this time about an hour away
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: from Fresno into Larry, and I wish you guys saw
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the pronunciation that I think cap and put for me.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I know it is literally too dash Larry. Okay. I
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: don't know if Kelly p is on here tonight, but
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I know when I lived in California it was called
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: too Larry. Well, we're going with too Larry because I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: like the sound, because I like the way to Larry.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I like Larry.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: It's fine. I'm from Ohio, so I can pronounce it wrong.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: It's I get it passed now. Around ten forty five
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: in the morning, a fire erupted in a display of
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: sleeping bags at Outdoor Adventure retail store. Another one thirty
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: to forty five minutes later, also into Larry. An employee
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: at the Family Bargain center noticed smoke coming from a
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: display of foam pillows and alerted his manager, who was
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: able to put the fire out with the store's fire extinguisher.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Now at the bottom of the display, guess what they found.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: A burn cigarette tied to two matches, and excuse me,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: a yellow piece of legal pad paper. That's right, there
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: was an extra addition that they found in this one.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: And uh, you know, at this point, I don't know
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: about you guys, but I'm gonna say that these seem
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: pretty pretty connected. This just seems like he's targeting like
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: poor stores.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, Kappains, I'm gonna go with you. And maybe it
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: was because of the San Francisco people talking, because I.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Like to Larry, I want to make it happened.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: With the other thing that I find interesting about these stores.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: If you stop and think these stores, Hancock Fabric, the
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: outdoor stores, they all had petroleum based products to burn.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: That's true. They also sound like they don't sound like
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: corporate businesses. You know.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Well, Vonn's is okay, Vaughn's Supermarket is part of Safe Way,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Albertson's Okay, I think maybe part of Kroger's or Randall's.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, So we had Vaughn's in Vegas and in
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: California and they are part of safe Way.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, So these aren't like mond.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: No in Handtock Fabrics is a huge fabric store kind
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: of like Joeanne's if you've ever heard of that, or
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: like a hobby lobby.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Well, we had both of those.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: No, no, they're big stores. But this is back in
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: the eighties. They weren't the conglomerates they are today, and
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: they weren't totals, girdles and yo yo's.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: But I forgot all about girdles, turtles and yo.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Yo et I was a brit thing and they were
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in other places.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: If somebody add that to my lama learns about show
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: for October, you want to learn all about this turtles, girdles.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: And but you I could get some people I grew
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: up with on all different ages who can tell you
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: about things from t gmy, I believe you now something interesting.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: In California, each city has their own fire departments and
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: at that time they did not share fire data with
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: other departments or cities.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: You you I have sovia doing well?
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Hi? You too, Hi?
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I mean that's here too. I mean even in my
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: city there's numerous.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: They can share data. So like in Texas, they shared data.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: They literally faxed it to each other to check because
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: they know that arson is something that is habitual, like
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: a serial killer. You share that kind of information. But yeah,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: so that you know. But like where I live currently,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of fire stations are by county oh okay,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: and not by cities, because there's so many cities. Okay,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: so I see. But now, a couple of hours after
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: the Tularry fires, I like saying it that way. Now,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: in about an hour south, the fire department in Bakersfield, California,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I've been stuck there, don't go there, was dispatched to
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: a fire at the Craft Smart after an employee noticed
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: flames in a display full of dry material used for
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: making floral arrangements. So guys like very flammable like foam.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: But thankfully that fire too was put out with a
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: fire extinguisher and no major damage was caused. Now, I'm
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: going to introduce you to my hero fire Captain Marvin Casey.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: So he investigated the fire at the Craft Smart and
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: once again a delayed device was discovered. This time it
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: was the same type of device as the Tularry fires,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: which included a cigarette, three matches, and a piece of
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: yellow legal paper. Wow.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I love mister Casey's tie. First of all, I love that. Also,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: is mister Casey still with us as adults? We should
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: ask him to come. I would love to hear what
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: you has.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: To say, Captain Angie. Somebody will you send me a
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: message on the discord and tell me to reach out,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: because maybe I can try to reach out while I'm there,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and maybe.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Because you will see fascinating. You don't know all about
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: mister Casey yet, but I do.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: And I love the fact that one of my favorite
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: characters that used to be on Chicago Fire his name
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: is Matt Casey. I've now decided that they got the
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: name from here.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: You gonna say, is he based? Oh?
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Juju is signing out? Now? Oh no? Does that help?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Want to get sleep so happy?
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: No, I see her above comment there, she's dealing with
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: vandalism at her house. Oh no, we'll get them, don't
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: you worry?
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we will get.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: So sorry, you have to deal with that, that's yeah.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Just send me any of the information and I will
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: be more than happy to help you dig into it. Okay,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that's right now. Captain Casey got lucky as the piece
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: of paper was mostly unburned this time and they were
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: able to collect it for evidence.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: M hmmmm, dun dundum now. About thirty minutes later, the
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Bakersfield Fire Department received another call. This time an employee
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: at Hancock Fabrics heard hissing noises coming from a display
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: filled with phone rubber batting. Then the bin erupted into flames,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: spreading up the walls and triggering the overhead sprinklers, which activated.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry, my headphone just said low battery. That
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: was weird. Sorry, um anyway, the sprinklers, which were activated
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: and put out the fire. Now, Captain Casey was sent
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: to the second fire, and he was confused because two
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: fires occurring in retail stores within hours of each other
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: was beyond unusual. He began suspecting that the fires were
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: started by the same individual. Yes, yes, mister Casey is like.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I know, he's like going captive apius people, Hello, right right?
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I mean to me, I don't know much about fires
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: and how often they are, but this seems like way
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: more fires than there should be during a given period
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: of time, Like was just everything flammable in the eight like,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: which is just fires all of the time. For this
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: did not seem like a big deal that this many
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: huge fires happening. That's very weird to me. Also, this
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: method that's being used, it's not seeming like a very
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: reliable one because he's striking out more than no pun
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: intended with the matches.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: But there.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: I have some issues with him setting these fires. One
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: you think he would have that they're sprinklers. It's not
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: hard to notice them, right. But also this method is
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: getting put out numerous times. So surely though an experienced
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: firefighter would no better ways to start fires for more
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: impact if that was your goal. But I guess maybe
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: this wasn't so much about causing damage for him as
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: it is being more like, look what I can do,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Look at what I can do. That's what I'm thinking,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: because how you know exactly what? Obviously he set certain
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: things on fire for a reason, but numerous of them.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. He wasn't doing it to destroy stuff.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: He was doing it to be the hero, to be
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: able to say I told you there was a serial arsenist.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: And Captain says, it's a game. I agree, it's and
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: that is why I am so excited next week to
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: share the psychological stuff I found.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: At this point, it does feel like a game.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: And Gie, thank you.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, sure, it's seeming like it. Huh, I'm sorry, it's hilarious.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, that is funny. That is funny.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: That is funny.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Uh So, I mean I do agree, I mean, you
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: would think you could do a better job. But Captain
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Casey spoke to an investigator in Fresno and learned about
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: the fires from that week. He was convinced that it
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: was a serial arsonist based on the fires all being
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: similar retail stores and the delayed device is found in
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: the world of serial killers. That is abso freakoutely. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I don't know. Maybe in the
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: fire world they don't call it that, but that is
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: an m O, guys, that is anmo how many different people.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: The Internet wasn't around, so it's not like you could
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: just go to YouTube and figure out how to make
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: an incendinary divice.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Very good point, Terry.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't think the encyclopedia Britannica's had that.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Some people may not know what an encyclopedia is. It's
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: the internet, but in books, it's in books.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you, we still have a set.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Do you have a whole set? I wish I did,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I wish I did. I remember reading I.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Could Devil Dragon had them at her house, so we
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: kept them.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: I love me a good encyclopedia.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: So, now, since the fires took place in multiple cities,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: there were jurisdiction issues and I'm going to just say
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: probably ego issues. And the case was handed over to
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms also known as
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the ATF ADF. Now, the only evidence that gave them
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: any hope was the piece of unburned yellow legal paper
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: and guess what, guys, guess what they got lucky and
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: a fingerprint was found on the paper.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Now that's the best you can do during this time, really, yeah,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And we didn't have that brand new technology DNA, and.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: It was one run through the small codas that they
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: had then, but no matches were found. So basically they
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: had a fingerprint but no name or evidence at this time,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: kind of like today when you hear we've got DNA
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: but we don't know the person's name, so kind of
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: the same thing.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, okay, At that time, it was a
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: huge break.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, Amos a miss you you are on fire tonight.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: I had to call you, amos a miss.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, oh boy, oh boy. Well you guys. The
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: investigators then decided to focus on the locations of each
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: fire and see what, if anything, was the common denominator.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: The identical devices and Highway ninety nine routes suggested a
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: single offender. Now, Captain Casey believed the arsonists had targeted
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: the area due to the fact there was the arson
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: conference going on, and that maybe the arsonists had attended
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: the conference in some capacity and lit the fires while
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: traveling home. However, the ATF disci it's Sirian I want,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: which makes me wonder what is ATF's theory in all
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: of this then, like when they were like, that doesn't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: sound likely. This sounds more likely, or like what.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were more focused on alcohol sales.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know, nah, because this, as you said, these
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: were corporate businesses and we all know.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: No, I mean that matter busy dealing with alcohol. I'm
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: not worrying about fires. Oh alcohol tobacco fire, never mind
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: my joke.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: No, I get it.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Wow, but that's okay, Terry's crush. Captain Casey
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: was not deterred. Now, I do not know why the
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: headlines is not or nice, but I am here for
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: it because when I first read what Captain called the list,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: I thought she was talking about Captain Casey, and I
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: was like, are you telling me I have to be
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: a naughty or nice with him? Anyway?
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: It's a list of names.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: I know that, but I didn't go handwriting. I did
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: not go look at the picture. I just saw the title.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: He's got good penmanship.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: He does. If that's his handwriting, Yes, that.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Is good penmanship. Now, he contacted the conference managers and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: obtained the list of all the attendees. He then looked
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: at the list to determine who would have driven home
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: on the Highway ninety nine and passed through to Larry
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and Bakersfield. He narrowed the list down from two hundred
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and forty two to fifty five. That's a lot of
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: work for the year. Yeah, I didn't. There was not
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: the internet people.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: No internet database is really a whole lot in none
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he turned it over to the ATF. But
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: guess what, guys, they were not interested. They were not. Now,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, who wants to think that maybe your arsonist
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: is a firefight? I mean I get that. But maybe
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: it was someone besides a firefighter who went to the convention.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's true.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: It could have been there were other people there that
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: were not firefighters.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: What if it was a cop who failed out from
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: being had become a cop?
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now, shut up, amos shut up.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Amus, just changed the picture and stop being hilarious. But
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I'm here for it.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, who wants to think that maybe
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: your arcisis is a firefighter girl? Sorry? With no match
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: to the fingerprint, did you see that? Or solid evidence
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: found on the delayed device, the case soon became cold. Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: In March nineteen eighty nine, it was time again for
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: the California Arson Investigation Conference, which I have no reason
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: to go to this conference, but I'm actually really intrigued
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: to go to one of these conference. Can we just
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: go if we buy tickets? That's what I want to.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Know, and we probably could.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I've seen some firefighters lately.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: All I'm saying, Okay, she's forty, she's feeling it. Guys
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: needs a fire. Fine, Lama is on fire and she
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: needs a fireman to come put out her fire.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Now. This time it
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: was held in Pacific Grove. Yeah sounds familiar, huh, in
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Oceanside City in Monterey County. Beautiful freaking place. I must say,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: that's freaking gorgeous. We don't have places in Ohio that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: look anything like that. Many of the antendees plan small
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: getaways around this conference because Monterey is absolutely setting and
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: there is so much to see and do, and I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: want to go really bad. I'm going to strap a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: GoPro to you, Terry.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I will tell you I have been to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Pacific Grove and I can tell you it is absolutely
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: freaking beautiful, and along with Monterey Proper, these are two
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: of my favorite places. Now we all know napis my
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: top favorite. But I'm going to ask you know what do.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: You mean by Monterey Proper? What does that mean?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: So there's Monterey County and then there's actually Monterey. Oh okay, Okay,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I see what you mean. All of Monterey is beautiful.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Pacific Groves than Monterey County. I mean, it's all.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: I see what you Yeah, you mean it.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. Now I'm going to ask you all to bear
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: with me for a minute because I love all animals
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: and h H and I fell in love with Skeezy
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: while visiting Monterey County. I do not remember exactly where
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: we were, but we got out of our car and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: we're walking by the water and I wanted to share
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: this video with you.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it because I've been waiting to see
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: what this is. We're in Mona REYUSA. Yes, okay, this
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: looks like water some pure.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Where's the sound action?
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: It might not have something?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, there it is.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: You're saying what something?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Wait?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Is that an otter? Is that an animal there in
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: the middle?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Oh? And every time I would say what it would
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: talk to me back. Oh okay, I'm sorry. At first
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was trash, and then I realized
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: can't turned the volume down because it was so loud.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Oh see there's more.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, there's more otters are So she's talking
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: to elbow feet about otters. The other night.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: It's her baby. She came to get her baby.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, those are adorable because I didn't realize the other
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: night that otters had like pause in the front. But
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: then they have like seal flippers on the bottom, and.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what all?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know this about otters. That's so adorable.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: But we were just walking by a pier and I
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: saw it and I said, what is that? And it
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: way e and that's what we called it, skeezy. And
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: he even bought me a stuffed otter that I have
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: and it's got a little shirt that says my name
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: is skis Oh. I love that I had made for it.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: So that is one of the things that just walking
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: randomly in Monterey or Pacific Grove you can find.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Terry.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: So we needed something lighthearted there.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, that was a wonderful idea.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Skeezy, is that what you said is easy?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Excusey? Okay? Oh that's adorable. Well, thank you for sharing that.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: If you're listening to this podcast, you need to come
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: over to our YouTube channel and look at those freaking
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: cue orders because that's adorable. Now. On March third, nineteen
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: eighty nine, just two days before the start of the conference,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: you know, guess it, guys, a fire erupted at the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Cornette Variety store in Morrow Bay, which is about one
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: hundred and forty five miles from the conference site south.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: If you're seeing the visuals, it is on the southern
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: part of California. Kind of boy, where a certain so
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: and so lives. Now, the fire started and of course
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: a ben of foam pillows before being put out by
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: a fast acting store in employee.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Who I hope got a bonus, a gold star, a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: day off something.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: He works at a five ten, twenty five cents store.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: You think is happening. That's crazy that things were even
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: five ten or twenty five cents.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: What a time to be alive.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yes, but good gold star to that
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: employee knowing what to do now. Then the next day
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: at Woolworths, Hey, I've heard of that place, and Selena
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: is about nineteen miles from the conference location, a fire
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: erupted in the store's betting section and damaged a large
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: portion of the store. Now there weren't There were not
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: any reports of delay devices being found at these two fires,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: but it's still pretty pretty suspicious to me. I think
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: we should include them anyway. So that's just my opinion.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: So now it's like five ten to fifteen dollars, I agree.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: But the fires were not over. On March ninth, nineteen
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: eighty nine, the day after the conference ended, another fire
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: spree hit several towns. First was at the fire at
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: the Pacific Home Improvement Center and at Tescadero, which is
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a little over one hundred and twenty miles away from
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Pacific Grove where the conference was held. Now at the
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: Pacific Home Improvement Center, foam products once again ignited into flames,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: but were extinguished quickly. Just down the road, guys, A
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: little bit later, another fire broke out at the Coast
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: to Coast Hardware store. He has a type in a
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: in an m. Let's just say that, okay, Oh.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I like their logo. It's a little like nutt and
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: bolt for that's clever. That's clever. I like that. Sorry.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: So, once again, the fire started in a bin of
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: foam products, but was put out. Guess what, guys. A
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: couple of miles away, another Cornet variety store had a
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: display of foam filling start smoldering and was also put
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: out by the store employees. Guys, so many fires you
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: can't even count. It's just insane now. During the investigation afterwards,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: one delayed device was found at the Pacific Home Improvement site,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: which you guess contained a cigarette, three matches, and a
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: yellow piece of legal paper bound with a rubber band.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: You think he would up the number of matches. I'm
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: just saying maybe the other day. So it's just kind
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: of like.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, this arsonist needs to find new method
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: because he is leaving a trail of droppings like that.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I think is interesting is that with
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: the first because this is important. The first conference that
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: they had, there were a lot of fires very close
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: to the conference center, but this time at the conference center,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: there was not as many and they were actually kind
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: of further away between his coming and going from the
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: conference center. And I wonder if that's because our good hero,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: actual hero of the story, Captain Casey, became more suspicious
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: and had this theory about the ur Sentisen convention center,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: so he was being more careful. I wonder if that's
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: might have what been going on here.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: But Lama, you would think this was the last fire
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: of the day, but it was not. That's why it's
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: a two parter. Now we had over, okay, caappen? Just
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: close your ears. San Luis, Obispo, which is about twenty
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: miles south to the Party Exchange store where a fire
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: destroyed the in Tire building and there is a little
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: clip of that one as well. Investigators suspected that this
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: was not an accidental fire and that the fire had
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: been set once again in a bind, but this time
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: with packing material. Actually news yeah, I mean.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: The whole building was destroyed, but no loss of life,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: thank goodness. Oh I hate fires.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Suspicious Hey, guy's hair.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: It's fantastic freaking hair man. Oh my goodness, Wow, look
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: at him?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: What if?
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: What a time caps that?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Uh? Look at all the little yellow tags on this.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Ye, Captain did an amazing job.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: With Cappain just did an amazing job.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, as always, it's rounded a plus everybody.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: What happened now?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: As you can imagine, when word hit Captain Casey, he
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: started looking into the fires. He found that, like nineteen
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: eighty nine, every fire targeted foam or pillow displays and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: all coincided with the conference. Now, Captain Casey once again
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: pushed the theory that the arsonist was among the attendees.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: He then reached out again to get the conference attendee
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: list we're showing right over there, and began comparing this
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: conference guest list with the previous one, narrowing the list
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: down to ten suspects. That's right, just ten, And once again,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: once again, Captain Casey, the real hero of the story,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: turned that over to ATF, who was not any more
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: thrilled than last time. Again, what in the f was
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: their theory? Then, mister ATF people, Because I am not
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: an expert, but this seems pretty freaking obvious. To me
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: so anyway, however, well, they may not have been thrilled
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: though this time the ATF did agree to quietly check
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: the fingerprints of the tense suspects. That's or I think
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Captain Casey won them over a little bit with his charm.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: And this included John orr Now against the public safety
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: database and oh, I'm sorry I read that wrong. My apologies.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: They ran that against the public Safety Employee database, which
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: was something they had at the time. Yet though, no
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: matches were returned, so the ATF sent Captain Casey on
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: his way and dismissed his theory, which I'm had to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: have been devastating for mister Casey.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: I know, but I'm like you when you wonder what
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: is their theory? They're not sharing it. No, i'd be
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Captain Casey is giving you information and a theory. I
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: just don't get why you wouldn't listen. I mean, they
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: did agree to check the fingerprints, so are.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: The FEDS is all uncertain, so they might think they
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: know better. Yeah. No, it's the seventies or eighties. It's
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: a wild time. There are crazy things going on for
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: the ATF. By the way, during this time, if you know.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Sammy I love that you like to see the naughty
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: list dwindle down. Oh girl, do not start the Christmas stuff.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I saw a post either today or yesterday, you're of Christmas,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: and I saw that we have one hundred days left
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: in this year.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: She I know for a fact, Sam right now is
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: jumping up and down and being like Terry. But it's
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: my favorite time, so I know it's your favorite time
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: of the year.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Can we just can we just get past Halloween and
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: then you can deck the halls, peppermint patty, everything you want.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: Just let's get through Halloween Halloween. My little Lama told
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: me yesterday that in orchestra class they're learning the This
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: is Halloween song from The Nightmare before Christmas. And I
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's cool. I hope you're going to
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: play that at your Christmas concert. But he didn't know.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: But I love that.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: My little Lama knows how to play this, So I'm
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: going to make him play for me all weekend for
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: my birthday.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: I I love that, Toll. Could you record it and
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: not tell him and then share it with us long?
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, he'd play it for you. I think it
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: was last year on my birthday. Yeah, it was last
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: year on my birthday, we were hanging out with my
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: friends on Discord and he came out he had.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Learned how to play Happy Birthday on his violin. For okay,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: could we set up a thing on members only or
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: alive or something where he plays for us? Maybe?
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe, Okay, I'll ask him about it tonight. He'll be
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: here this weekend.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: You know. Monkey Bed still keeps getting mad at me
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: because she's like, could you stop trying to set me
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: up with baby Lama. That's just not funny.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not. Yeah, but I will see if he wants.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: To do that now. On June twenty seventh, nineteen ninety,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: temperature soared over one hundred degrees fahrenheit and winds gusted
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: at thirty five miles an hour. Guys, this is the
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: kind of day every firefighter dries, I mean dreads because
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: everything is right for a fire. I mean here in
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: the Austin area, we're on burn bands because we've got
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: the hot winds, no water, and the temperatures.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: So we've only recently, in the last few years have
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: had burn warnings in Ohio. It was not a normal
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: thing until a few years ago.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: We are kindling right now, so it's not good. Like
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: my Amazon boxes are stacking up because I can't burn them.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: That's okay. Now, around three point thirty, a brush fire
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: ignited in Glendale's College Hills neighborhood, and the Glendale Fire
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: Department was called out. Now, guys, John Orr had recently
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: been promoted to fire captain at the Glendale Fire Department. Yes,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: you heard me right, he got a promotion. Now, fueled
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: by scorching weather in dense, overgrown bushes, the blaze tore
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: through the hillsides with a speed that stunned even the
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: most seasoned firefighters. Flames raced upward in walls of fire
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: them lapped across the Glendel Freeway in a matter of minutes.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Now the site quickly became a scene of chaos, with
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: fire engines from every jurdis jurisdiction in the San Gabriel
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Valley arriving clogging streets as columns of black smoke blotted
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: out the sun and drifted down like snow. Look at
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: the sky's this is horrific.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Is that? Is that the same area as the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: flat fires from recently in different different area?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: So La proper caught on fire?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm not the best with California and geography.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me those tires burning right now in California
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: as well, really there is They're not They're controlled right now.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: But that's what I say. It is very important there
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: because they get the Santa Anna winds and the heat
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: and not having the moisture. They have got to keep
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: all you see dried leaves, dried bushes. You got to
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: cut those suckers. You cannot have leaves in your yard.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, now lady and Gray is piping in. Guys, I
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: love you, I just love you. I just love all
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: of you. We have to.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: I know some people are very turned off when people
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: laugh while telling these stories. We're not laughing at the stories.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: We're doing what we can to make lay of what
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: is truly something horrific.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Right, house burned down when you were nineteen?
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know fires is terrifying and horrifying, But I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: will say this. In mental health support groups I used
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: to run, we embrace humor as healthy because actually it is.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: It is actually healthy.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: That's why police officers, firefighters, people that first responders, they
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: say some jokes that you're like, I can't believe you
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: just said that they've got to find humor where you can.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, shut upright, I'm a sucker for puns to our friends.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: No, that's absolutely I mean luckily I didn't said any
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: wars on fire.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: Now at this point, I'm sorry, Where are we again,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: San Gabriel Valley? Okay, okay, Now. Sirens wailed, air horns blasted,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: and police scrambled to throw up barricades, holding back desperate
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: residents who shouted the names of missing children and pets
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: into the choking haze. This is like one of my
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: worst time years. I'm so glad it's not really a
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: thing here, but oh my god, above the chaos, helicopters
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: hovered in tight circles, unleashing torrents of water onto the
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: inferno below. And this is something we now get to
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: see lots of times on news. I know a lot
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: of us don't bat our eyes anymore when there's a
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: fire in California.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: But if y'all ever want live pictures, when I responded
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: to a fire last year, the counter Powder Keck fire,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: I actually whipped out my phone and took pictures of
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: the helicopters and planes dropping water on the fire. Where
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: was rehapping firefighters.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: I just you know, I think it's something too. A
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: lot of the rest of the country and people living
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: in other places. It's really hard for us to comprehend it, really,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: really it is.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: But like I should get flooding, some places get fire,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: someplaces get hur encountering. Some of you get these things
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: called real blizzards, not like the Massachusetts blizzards.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: I will take any of that over fires, please and
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: Hi, I would agree, but I think we all get
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: our own things. Yeah, And that's how you should travel,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: people and visit someplace other than yours, because you will
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: meet great people and you will learn something.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure. Now amid this frenzy, John
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Or moved with a singular focus. While firefighters fought to
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: contain the flames, he immediately began tracing the fire's destructive path,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: which doesn't sound too weird because that's kind of his jobs.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: It's kind of that's a job is literally to find
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: out where this fire happened, which I've also learned is
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: normal for fires, such as was it caused by a
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: lightning strike? Was this done by a civilian? Purposefully? I
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: learned is a very important thing.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: In lighty and gray. You're absolutely right, volunteer firefighters. I
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: mean they are even bigger badasses because they're doing it
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: without getting paid for sure.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: For sure. Now, as he was following the blackened trail
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: to its beginning, he closed off the area and declared
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: it a crime scene, because again they can do that.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: The burn patterns told a chilling story. The fire had
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: ignited at the bottom of a ravine, where power of
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: powerful winds had carried it uphill, turning a spark into catastrophe.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: I also saw the I didn't know why fire hawks
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: were named firehawks until.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: The other day.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: Oh really, yes, I didn't know that, because we don't
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: have that problem in Ohio, right. So for everybody else
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: that doesn't know about fire hawks, side tangent lamas notorious
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: for them. They caught fire hawks because these hawks learned
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: to pick up burning embers in a forest fire such
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: as this or any large fire, and to pick up
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: the burning embers and place them somewhere else to catch
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: that on fire because all of the live food runs out,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: and they've learned how to do that to hunts. And
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, I just thought fire hawk was a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: cool name. I'll be honest, I just thought that was a.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Reason they call their hunters. Yeah.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, wait, they do what Now, that's amazing. Sorry,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: the more you know.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I didn't think of turning that, but
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: yeah they do.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: I know we have hawks here, but not that now.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: Amid this frenzy, John Or served with a oh no eight,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: I already said that air mind. Sorry, I highlighted the
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: wrong part. Okay, So we got this fire going. Okay.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: The blaze then raced up till jumping rooftops, spreading faster
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: than most firefighters had ever seen, which seems so sorry.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: Y'all didn't see Dan kiss Amy in the background, but
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Love, so I didn't have to interrupt you. But kid,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: you just remind Dan you're on camera and looks like
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: a too frisky. I mean, I know it's hot in
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: there and all that we're talking about fires. But he
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: can George fire man later, and he can put your
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: flight out.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: Grossing control of yourself. I'm sorry anyway, you guys, I apologize.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: So the firefighters are having a hell up a time now.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: By the time the winds died down, forty six homes
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: were destroyed, twenty more damaged, and losses totaled fifty million dollars,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: which I imagine is way more in today's prices.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: And think about that fifty million dollars price tag. Forty
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: six homes in twenty were damaged and it was fifty million.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: That means the homes are Hella price cy in this
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: well in nineteen ninety.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: But it's not just about the homes. It's about the
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: infrastructure as well, you know, all of the power facilities,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: all of all. As somebody who's with a utility locator,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: you'd be surprised to know it's true. You know, roads,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: there's many things besides homes.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Showed that from my but I'm like, I still just
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: like to think that's just those are expensive.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Oh if he marks something wrong and it's a damage,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it's
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: it's serious.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: You were going to have to talk one day to
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: see if he uses the same markings that we do
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: as first responders that show up before the responders get there,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: and we have to do certain things to not go
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: in and we have certain protocols. I have to talk
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: to him, Yeah you should.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know that. I mean he has you know,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: Marking says, I know what you refer.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: Tech's no listening. He's probably to be quite honest with you.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Well he should be. He's had a rough couple of days.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, very busy now.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Mister John Orr quickly declared it arson and identified the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: point of origin. But interestingly enough, after the initial investigation,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: he shelved the case abruptly interesting shut it down now.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: His partner Don Yeker was disturbed by his lack of
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: follow up Don me too, Okay, me too? And this
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: isn't the me too movement. This is me saying yes,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: I'm on your side, dude. Other colleagues were equally upset
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: when Or started talking to the press and giving out
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: information that they had hoped would stay confidential and not
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: alert the arsonists that they knew this was not an
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: accidental fire.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Quick question, Yes, why do you think he did this?
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: Because he wasn't getting the notoriety from burning stores.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: No, I've been giving the information.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: To Oh why because I think he screwed up something
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: and scared he realized he screwed up and he was
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: going to get caught, or he thought it was going
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: to be very small and he didn't realize the Wines
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: were going to pick up and damage that much.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Or do you think maybe he actually enjoyed how much
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: it did, or.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe or getting in front of the camera.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: People don't know it's him, but hey, it's.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: Just wait till you find out what he was doing
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: and it will all make sense next week. That's why
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: there's a part two, I mean, not going to part
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: three has been hard. So now, during the investigation, one
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: witness that they saw man about five foot ten with
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: the dark hair in khaki pants across the street right
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: before the fire started. Or decided to hand over the
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: interviews and the investigation to the local police department so
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: he could focus on other fires. Guys, His partner, Don
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Yeager was once again not happy, okay, and he was
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: upset about this. Yegger felt that the fire should be
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: investigated by them and not the police department. I mean
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: police department do not know how to work fires, okay. Sadly,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: despite the witness's description of a man, the lead did
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: not help them and the case went cold. But do
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: not worry people, there are still more fires to come.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: Oh so the surprise of no one.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: He's done. He hasn't done enough damage yet. Yeah.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: Now, between December nineteen ninety and March nineteen ninety one,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: nineteen fires ravaged Los Angeles retail source. Two thrifty drug
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: stores suffered fires on the same day, with one of
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: the fires damaging the Bank of America doore to thrifties. Yes,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: these are home videos, I mean wors home videos by
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: the way, in case y'all were wondering, mm hmm. Now,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: several of the fires were within hours of each other
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: and in the same area. The pattern was identical. Bends
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: of foams, pillows, blankets, and plastic products were used as
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: a starter. Several stores were completely destroyed. The damage ran
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: into the millions, and dozens of employees were left jobless.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: And I think that's very important to point out these
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: most likely weren't employees with the backup or anything like that.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: These were people that it really really probably yeah, it infected,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: affected their their day to day lives for sure. Now
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: at multiple scenes, though investigators recu for the same delayed device,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: go figure, cigarettes, matches, rubber bands, and yellow paper. The
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: reality of these fires forced authorities to form a multi
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: agency task force atf LAFD and others combined resources to
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: catch the arsis. They now called the Pillow Pyro flyers
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: were circulated with details of the devices, because you should
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: do that. I don't think that was a good idea.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: But in the.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: Meetings, investigators began to connect the current Los Angeles spree
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: to the Central Valley fires of nineteen eighty seven and
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: the Central Coast spree of nineteen eighty eight. Amos, you
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: were out of control.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: I love it, okay, and then I love this better.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: I mean a cigarette, three matches, and a rubber band.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: It is the dollar tree to mistake hed it worked.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: Now the Pillow Pyro task Force members were excited to
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: get started, and they reached out to my hero, Captain Casey.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: Now the investigator was the investigator from Bakersville who had
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: put together this suspect list of the ten conference attendees
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: who had found the evidence that gave them a fingerprint.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Now Captain Casey was relieved that finally someone was listening
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: to him, as he laid out his full theory to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: the task force and told them he believed that the
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: arsonist was an attendee of the fire investigation conference. He
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: was deflated when the task force didn't support his theory
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: since the ten fingerprints didn't match anyone in the Public
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Safety Fingerprint database. This, I know, it really frustrates me,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: it does. But I love that he stayed the course
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: and he did not give up on his conviction. He
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: did best, and that's what I love. The task Force
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: ran the print through COTIS again, just in case the
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: suspect had been arrested since the last time the print
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: was run. Now, the interesting thing I found about that
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: back then they only put prints in when you were convicted.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: They ran them. But what I learned about COTIS back
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: in the nineties is when they started sharing all fingerprints run,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: which I did not know.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know COTIS was a thing then, I'll
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: be honest with you. Yes, so that was impressive to
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: learn now, or at least I didn't remember.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, this time though, they also ran it through
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: the La County Laboratory, which also held fingerprints of all
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: county law enforcement officers, including anyone that had plot applied
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: for a job in law enforcement.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: You don't say, you don't say, well, it was in.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: It was within the next week that the task Force
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: received a call from the La County Laboratory warning them
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: that the arson investigators needed to be more careful when
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: handling evidence. Hmmm, oh really, why is that?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Well, D kind of like your court today. They were
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: going through the evidence bags without gloves and I was
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: losing my shit, right, I was losing And I was like, okay,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: I know, ooh it's humped back crooked letter, cricket letter ara,
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: but no, uh uh, they needed to be wearing gloves.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, even it was just handling the bags.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: Just to be sure.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: Air Force prints are government military. They are not in
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: codis and not in La County Public service.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: Oh the more you know?
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: Did you know this? You guys adorable? Sorry, we have
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: the best chat ever.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: We're awful and I love it now Okay, So the
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: lab technician had run the print through the databases and
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: discovered that the print on the piece of paper belonged
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: to a member of the Glendelle Fire Department, and he
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: suspected the evidence had been contaminated because of course, why
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't if that just been the case, I'm.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to go to the worst scenario. They're
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: not like us. They don't instantly go full brottle.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: To the worst, I think, and well, at this time, anyway,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: the print matched the highly respected fire investigator John Or,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: because of course it did. The Task Force was like, great,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: Vera goes are one lead because stop, surely this couldn't
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: be couldn't be it.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: I mean I just have to say, is Or trying
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: to look adorable sexy? Is this like his version of
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: a farming calendar?
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you got our monds are out of control.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: They guys, do not change. I love you all, Okay, okay,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: see Sammy also did a face plant today watching them
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: touch the evidence.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: Oh you all saw my face When they brought out
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: that kind of counterfeit money.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: He fucking grabbed it. I was like, I was yelling. Yeah,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: I was yelling, and I said something when the dentist
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: was having me sit for a minute and he goes,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: did you say something, I'm like, yeah, they're not wearing gloves,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: and he just looked at me and I was like, nevermind.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 3: So so, when Captain Casey found out about the match,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: he informed the Task Force that it could not have
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: been a contamination issue, as John Orr had not reported
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: to the scene in Bakersfield where the finger print was found.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, did you see hello monkey butt, Hello monkey?
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: Have you in your volleyball game tonight? Yes, I hope
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: you one tonight. I haven't been on the time you
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: to find out. So, and just so you know, monkey
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: butt Lama, it's her birthday week. She's going to be forty,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: see her tiara in her sash, So send her lots
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: yes of birthday loves. Yes.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: But I heard you doing great in volleyball and we're
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: all rooting for you, I promise every Thursday.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: Oh they did win.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good job, Monkey bub Or.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: So she's also in band. Are y'all learning how to
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: play the Nightmare before Christmas? Because if you are, we're
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: gonna need to hear it.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. Now, what Captain Gacy found puzzling was the fact
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: that Orr's fingerprint had been checked back in nineteen eighty
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: nine when they checked public safety employees fingerprints and it
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: was not a match. So he was like, how did
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: that happen? But before we get into that, okay, I
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: know y'all perform tomorrow night and we are leaving to
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: go to California. But on a good news, I'm seeing
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: your brother this weekend. I'll be sure to take pictures
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: with them. But y'all are going to do great at
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: the game. I am so sad. But before we get
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: into how that happened, I want to talk a little
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: bit about how Or's name made the list. Okay, Or
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: attended both the nineteen eighty seven and the nineteen eighty
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: nine conference, and that based on where his residence was,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: he would have had to travel along the highways where
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: the fires were started in both eighty seven and eighty nine.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: He also added order the list because he knew an
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: arsonist would want to be solo in. Or had not
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: taken his wife to either conference, unlike others.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, interesting. Interesting indeed, So how did Or's fingerprint get
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: missed in nineteen eighty nine, Well, you guys, it's actually
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: it's pretty simple, all right, because back when ors fingerprints
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: were put into the employee database, the technology wasn't what
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: it was in nineteen ninety one. No, it was like
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: some guy in a room with one of those jewelry
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: things being like, I think, I think, so, I don't know,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: that's what he was doing, and the technician had made
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: an air when doing a manual comparison. His air caused
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Or not to be identified earlier. Now, the task force
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: was in shock, to say the least. You know, it
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't a shock freaking Captain Casey.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: He was like, no, shit, right, my boyfriend, Captain Casey. Yeah,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: I hope he's not married because his wife's gonna not
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: be happy with me. I say, boyfriend and the fact
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: that I'm fangirling over him because he was smart and
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: nobody listened to him. I'm happily married, and I will
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: be happy to take you and him to dinner.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: Oh right, oh right now. It was hard to imagine
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: or wrap your head around the idea that a well
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: respected arson investigator, trainer, and fire captain could be a
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: serial arsonist. But as we can all imagine, this revelation
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: had to be handled and investigated discreetly, right, I mean,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: a man's entire career is on the line here. You
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: better be sure and the faith of the public.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: What's your point care? What's your point?
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: He would share arrangements, would share her entanglements.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: I can just add I could add him to my
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: safe one. Okay, I'm not the only one that heard
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: her say captain instead of captain, it's always cap I
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: heard it. I was like, no, you're just used to
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: hearing that. No, it's not all hot and bothered thinking
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: about that whoa.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: I'm you need to calm down, all right, Kayla.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: Time to go to bed now.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: John Orr was considered an esteemed member of the firefighting community,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: a man who had built his reputation on pursuing arsonists
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: and protecting the public. Many of his peers had attended
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: his training seminars, finding his insights into the psychology and
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: behaviors of fire setters invaluable. I mean, I'm sure it was.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: I am sure it was invaluable. Now Or was especially
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: admired for what seemed like a sixth sense, if you will,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: an uncanny ability to detect evidence at arsen sights that
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: even seasoned investigators overlooked, Like yeah, of lady and Gray,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you've stopped and.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of police officers try to get in the
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: minds of a killer, John Orr was in the mind
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: of an arsenist because he was an arsenist.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like all this started to start way before.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: Then, but oh yeah, so yeah, we'll talk about that
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: next week now. Colleagues often remarked that he could determine
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: the cause of a fire faster than most frequently low
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: dedicating in sceninary devices with remarkable ease. Yeah, because he
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: set the people anyway, I don't look at it when
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: flames erupted, or had a tendency to appear quickly, sometimes
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: even before the first responders arrived. Not good John. It
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: was no surprise to anyone that he showed up at
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: scenes while off duty as well, driven by an eagerness
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: to investigate. Yet in hindsight, the very qualities that set
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: him apart also raised quiet suspicion. His relentless presence at fires,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: his swift conclusion, and his apparent instinct for uncovering hidden
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: clues seemed at times to be precise maybe coincidence, quinky inks.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: Still without hard evidence, members of the task force recognized
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: the risk of letting speculation guide them. Guys, I will
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: let it guide me. Just don't worry about it. I
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: will put my name on the line and I will
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: say he did it. Okay, I'm willing to go out
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: there on that lamb. So, for all they knew, then,
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: the oddities surrounding John Orr could just as easily have
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: been explained as the habits of an exceptionally dedicated fire investigator.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. For the Pillow Pyro Task Force, love the name.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: I just want to say you don't see very many
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: good task force names, but I enjoyed the Pillow Pyro
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: Task Force anyway. For the Pillow Pyro Task Force, identifying
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: their prime suspect was only one milestone, but transforming that
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: suspicion into a full scale investigation, oh and eventually an
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: arrest Spoilers was an entirely different challenge. Because of the
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: seriousness of allegations against John Orr. The United States Attorney's Office.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: That's all right, the big dogs here quickly become involved,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: and trust me, you do not want them involves.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: You don't want it at all.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: It's bad newspaars.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: You don't want it. You don't.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: You ain't beating it. Okay, it ain't happening. Their goal
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: was to establish an air tight chain of evidence that
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: could withstand scrutiny in court and support the most compelling
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: case possible. Prosecuting a California fire official for setting the
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: very blazes he was sworn to prevent was no ordinary undertaking.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: It was a high profile criminal case that demanded meticulous
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: attention to detail because what would the public think, you know,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: and just needed to be right about this.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: Just a reminder that took four lives is still considered
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: an accident at this point in time, which is crazy fine,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: and I mean that's the thing that I can't wrap
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: my head around that at this point you're not going, oh, well,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: I think we missed what you know. Now. Although Or's
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: fingerprints found on an incedinary device was damning, the attorney's
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: office knew it wasn't enough to carry the weight of
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: their prosecution. That single print tied him exclusively to the
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven craft marked fire in Bakersfield, but investigators
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: and all of us strongly suspect his involvement stretch way
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: beyond that. Okay, The distinct signature AMO is how they
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: called it, used in the blaze suggested Or could be
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: responsible for countless other arson attacks, including the death the
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: Stating fire outbreak in Los Angeles, the Central Valley spree
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty seven, and the Central Coast spree of
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. Each of these incidents bore hallmarks of
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: the same calculated fire setting style, yet linking them definitely
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: to Or would require evidence. Can't just have circumstantial.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: Guys, not in a case like this.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, and not back in the nineties. I mean,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: and I mean.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: I've heard that urson investigation is a tricky area of investigation,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: if you will. So I can't imagine how much difficult
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: it would be during this timeframe, because it's still difficult
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: now in oh yeah, twenty twenty five. So now, Recognizing
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: both the gravity and sensitivity of the case, the US
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: Attorney's Office arranged a confidential meeting with ores Immediate Server
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: Supervisor Battillion, Chief Christopher Gray. His hair? You heard me?
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: What did you say? You heard?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: We're moving on, Terry Battalion, mind my words?
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: Also, why is part of slide? What is that? I'm
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: not sure what is going on here.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Christopher Gray looking good there.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: Look at all that gray hair.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: Battalion? Is it not Battalion? What did I say?
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: Battillion?
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: You know what? I thought it was adorable because normally
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: it's me that can't say it's say motion to scream.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: Wants you to say it again? You said it. It
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: was adorable.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So Chief Christopher Gray, uh, it brought to his attention.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: In that meeting, they delivered the shocking news his top
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: ar is an investigator, the man celebrated for solving some
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: of the state's toughest fire cases was now the focus
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: of the pillow pyro probe. And that's not a shut
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: up amus, You're fired. I'm firing everybody today.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: Okay to me, can I say that Captain? Do you
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: see what she titled Battalion Chief Grays picture.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: Lady and who's so highlighted on the on the Is
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: this your man?
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, is this your brother? Is this your man?
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: I need the deats because Captain says it's a lady
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: and who you guys?
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, right there, it is right there, it is. Captain
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: is a label genius when it comes to ours.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: I want her to label my funeral service pictures, not
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: my kids will just be falling on the floor. I
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: don't have any relatives that like me, but hopefully a
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: few friends will show up. We'll be there as long
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: as we can party. Oh absolutely, here's been wine served.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: Do you remember this tomorrow night? Okay, just keep that
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: in back in your mind for tomorrow. I know Gilly
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: P's not here talking about her face, but anyway, now
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: back to this story, all right. So, at the same time,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: federal prosecutors caution Gray that much investigative work still lay ahead,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: and a rest was not imminent and building a case
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: strong enough to convict John Orr. Would take patience, precision,
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: in time, and if you know anything about the Feds,
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: they got a whole lot of those three things.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's come after you.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: They put in a lot of patient's precision and dime.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: So now, although Ors, is it what battillion I think?
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: Shall we say it? Sorry? Although Ors Battalion chief initially
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: refused to believe the allegations, he nevertheless agreed to provide
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: whatever sistance he could. I just have to say, Battalion
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: Chief Gray, the fact that your first instinct was to
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: protect your man and have his back. I respect that.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: And I like the fact that you said, you know what,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: I'm still going to give you what assistance. Maybe I'm wrong,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: I respect that, Okay, Okay. So he handed over call
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: out sheets and phone records from the Glendell Fire Department,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: hoping they might shed light on OARS activities. Gray also
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: revealed that John Orr was scheduled to attend and a
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: five day peace officer safety training course in San Louis
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: Obispo at the end of the month. To the US
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: Attorney's office. This detail was heart breaking. Excuse me, it
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: was a breakthrough. Not heartbreaking, okay, and well it becomes heartbreaking.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: But a multi day training course John would be away
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: from his department. In history suggested that such occasions were
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: prime opportunities for the pillow Piro to strike again.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: And that's right, I mean two conventions already and guess
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: what happened. Surely this would happen a third time. Right, No, girl,
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: On the morning of April twenty eighth, nineteen ninety one,
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: just one day before the training was set to begin,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: John Orris set out or San Luis Obispo, the coastal
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: city nestled roughly halfway between Los Angeles and San Francisco.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: I see what I did there? Never mind, probably not.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: He had no idea that investigators were prepared for him
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: and watching him. That's right, eyes on, mister or there's
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: some ATF surveillance video for you.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: I look that.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: This is the nineties.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: Imagine the biggest camera.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: Even though the camera is half the size of a
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: human being.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't see us.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: Secret now. A tracking device had been planted beneath his car,
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: and a massive surveillance operation shadowed his every move. Six
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: unmarked vehicles, a fixed wing aircraft air fucking around and
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: a team of undercover agents still tailing him was no
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: easy feat. Once or hit the freeway, he practiced being
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: Mario Andrew because, of course, of course he did. Okay,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: wait that name again, Andretti. It says Indrotti, but we
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: pronounced it Mario and Mario Androtti. No, not in Ohio.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're wrong.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a Texas girl, but that is Mario Androtti.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: It is literally the only way I've heard his name pronounced.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Ever. That's right, hyo, y'all. Also, Mario Andretti, you also
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: have black eyed piece of some college mascot, so you're
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: fine going honestly, guy, I thought that was his name.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: That's literally how I've always heard it, Mario Andretti.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: Mario Andretti is how it is, just people. I was
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: gaslighting you, honey, and you fell for it.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: You know what? This is why I don't drink tequila
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: in public.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: Hairy, you all can't be trusted. Your clothes are still on,
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: so you were fine. We say Andretti too. I was
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: just gaslighting you and you fell for it.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it should be Andreatti. If you see
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: the way it's.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: Say, Sammy, he's a NASCAR guy.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: He's not a Nascar guy. I know he's not a
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: Nascar guy.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: He's a Prala guy in me, yes, because he's a
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: Patrick Dempsey level Patrick, like the actor Patrick Dempsey drives
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: Formula cars. Oh my god.
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no shit, I didn't know that.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. He does the thing in Paris where
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: they go over the thing, Bob.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: Why did you come out to look at me?
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: Out he goes the Monaco.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, really I did not know that about Oh
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: my god.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: Him and his wife almost got divorced for that, besides cheating.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because he slept with me.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Amy, just put in our notes a Mario
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: and draw you were out of control. This is what
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: happens when I don't talk dame as for a whole week.
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: She apparently has a freakin' life. She's out of control.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: And I do see her again now. Anyway, he's being
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: Mario and Dretty, Okay, dodging through traffic in LA somehow,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: I imagine traffic in LA was just as bad during
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: this time as it is now. Anyway, So despite his
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: reckless driving, though, the tracker showed he made it directly
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: to his hotel without any suspicious detours. The task force
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: began thinking maybe we made a mistake, but they had
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: to say the course. I mean, did he get a
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: hints up? You think.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know?
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: Now. The next night, one of the task force members
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: followed Or into a thrifty drug store, and they had
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: to keep an eye on him as he went through
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: the entire store, and they did not want to be detected.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: The agent stayed back as Or checked out at the
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: front of the store.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: But they were open twenty four hours. Sorry, that's impressive
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: for that time, is all I'm saying.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, amos. She is now changing the words in the
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: spelling on the notes store. Okay. So once Or left
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: the store, the agent got a copy of the receipt
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: so that he could verify Or's purchase. Or didn't purchase anything, crazy, guys,
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: just two packs of Marlboro Lights cigarettes.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is fine in the eighties and nineties.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: That's to them, of course, this purchase was not normal
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: and got them excited because guys, to the best of
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: their knowledge, Or was not a smoker. I mean, I
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: would think a firefighter smoking. I would find that to
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: be an oxymoron, just saying. But it was the eighties
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: or nineties. I oh, she is being honory ornery ornery.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: So this is not instantly a red flag for me,
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: because what if he only smoked when he was away
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: from his wife at a conference and stuff. Yeah, I
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: have to be honest. I go to my besties house, Cheryl,
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: she smokes. I've been known to steal a cigarette or two. Okay. Now, However,
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: the task Fars felt different. They saw this purchase as
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: a big deal. They continued tracking ors every move over
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: the remaining training days.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we are to throw people off, Sam, right,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: So it's true, not a spot. They were just waiting
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: for him to strike again, which guess what.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: He didn't strike. It's not that's my brand, lucky strike.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: What's that sponsor? Okay? We sponsor our boro Okay. Now.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: John was headed to his car on his last day
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: of training when we stopped at his car and bent
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: down to look under the back end. Guys, there was
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: no fires during this time, but the Task Force members
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: who were following him begin to panic as they saw
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: or looking under the car at the tracking device they
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: had placed there. They were like, shit, he knows someone
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: is following him? Yeah, I mean, didn't they have air
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: tags back then? Okay, guys, what is a Lucky Strike?
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: It's a brand of cigarettes.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I did not know that. I'm sorry. Okay,
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: I was just wondering where all those Lucky Strikes were
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: coming from. Identify the smoker's chest Ockay, does anyone smoke
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: clothes cigarettes?
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: That's the only time we're all grown adults?
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: Sorry? What the fuck? I'm sorry? Are you saying adults
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: do not smoke clothes cigarettes?
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm saying. I never met an adult
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: that wasn't in high school or the early cult before there.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: Guess what. I smoked one in July at Catherine's birthday
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: party because the DJ had some at Gillies, and I
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: went up and flirted and he gave me one, and
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: double H was okay with it? Motion distream, I called, so,
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: do you smoke clothes? If so, we can be besties
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: and just leave all these life the.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: Only two adults in all the world.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm done.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: I love you, guys, even if.
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: I love you, go on, Oh my god, here we go.
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: Oh is it my turn? Okay? Two of shocked.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Amos.
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: Now it's not the time to play games. Two of
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: their shock Or didn't do anything. He just stood back
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: and got into his car, which is very weird when
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: you think something's going on with your car. But okay,
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: the team followed him and got another shock when Or
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: drove straight to the San Luis Obispo Police Department.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: Or went inside and the task Force members waited in
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: their vehicles until Or left them.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: So any knew people who are listening to this, We're
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: not always the sunhinge. But let me just say, Mama's
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: been on camera all day. It is our Truthday week,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: and I have now had half a bottle of a
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: Pino noir, so I have been ams. I mean, if
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: you're not here for this insanity, we're probably not the
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: people you want to listen to, because guess what, We're
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: gonna have horores and wars all night long.
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: Hors and wars. What a birthday for me? Oh my gosh,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: But your hor is gonna show up soon.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: E motion.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: This is literally the best. If you guys saw our notes,
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: oh man, anyway, let me start. So Or left the poor.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. They then went to walk to sorry
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: compose myself. They then went to talk to lieutenant on
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: duty to inquire about Or's visit. You see, Or didn't
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: think it was a tracking device like a normal person. No, Instead,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: he thought it was a bomb. Because if I think
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: there's a bomb on my car, I know I'm going
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: to drive it around everywhere.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 3: I know what that was my thought.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like, who gets in a car it's because it's
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: a bomb and drives it somewhere to the police and
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: you call the police.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is gonna be a very long and side joke.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, happen No, no, no, no to it in the show.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, who would do that? That to me
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: is sus I think.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: I think honestly at this point, he's he knows he's
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: being followed and he's playing games with them. That's what
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: I think is going on, because no respectable person who's
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: in the field he's in is gonna fuck around and
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: find out with the bomb on the car. Okay, I wouldn't, No, no,
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: not at all. Can I get a highlight because I
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: went on a ramp there? Oh okay. The lieutenant wanted
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: to call the bomb squad to come there to the station,
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: but Or, as a firefighter, knew the damage a bomb
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: could do, and instead he would drive it to the
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: closest bomb disposable unit, which was only a couple miles away.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: How do you dispose of a bomb that's on a car?
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: Isn't the whole car a bomb? I don't know? While
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: was driving and he got back, okay, So he stops
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: at the police, right He's like, I think I got
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: a bomb in my There was a disposal site and
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: they're like, well, I don't know, you better drive it
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: to this another place because I'm getting back in a
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: vehicle that I think, what if it's a speed situation?
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: Speed was not out yet a hero?
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: That sounds silly to me anyway, So he drives it
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: to this disposable unit.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: With the world.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: The task force called the unit and filled the orificer.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: It doesn't say that, but I added it who answered
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: in on their investigation. The officer agreed to help the
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: task force, So that's very I don't know. I think
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: he knows he was being tailed the entire time.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: So I don't know about that, but I know there
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: was a movie I don't remember who the actor was,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: but there was a bomb in an ambulance. Instead of
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: letting the bomb squad come, he drove it to the
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: bomb disposal site because he was a cop, because he
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: didn't want innocent people to be hurt.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, you think that was kay?
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: Eye roll was serious. Okay, Well, what's the.
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: The there's the Rock movie. It's named after Son Andreas.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: Oh have you ever seen what is the movie? Son Andreas?
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, I have to look because I can do me
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: some rock.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, But in this movie, the rock drives every vehicle
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: you can imagine, all right, every single one, including air ones.
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: Any vehicle you can imagine, the rock drives, okay, but
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: in this movie, the rock cannot land any of these vehicles.
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: Ever.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: It's hilarious and amazing.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you, lady and Gray. It was my chocolate lover
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: who drove it to Central Park, so you're real, absolutely right, hey,
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: it was real. Okay. Now, upon arriving at the desporsal.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: Side you get, speaking of rock, can I tell you
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: a quick side note? So elbow feet Grandma, Okay, she's
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: she's in her eighties at least, I don't know exactly
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: how old she is. But she's definitely in her eighties
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: and ninetyes. She's amazing, Dorothy. I want to grow up
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: and be like Dorothy. I really do. So we were
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: at a wedding for his brother's wedding in June, right,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: and we're all sitting at a table. But I noticed
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: a phone was left at the table and a bunch
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: of people were missing, and I was like, oh, my god,
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: who's one? Is this right? And I look at it.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: In the background of the phone is a picture of
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: the Rock, a very suggestive pictures.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: I love the Rock, if you will, right.
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: So then, uh, missus Dorothy comes to our table and
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: she was like, oh, there's my phone. And I was like,
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: excuse me, Dorthy, Dorothy, what do you mean this is
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: your phone? The background of your phone is the Rock?
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: And she looks at me straight faced. She was like, yeah,
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: and that's my boyfriend. Oh Dorothy, love you, Dorothy. You're amazing.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that. And I have to say the
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: great thing my grandmother, Yes, Dwayne Johnson the Rock. Hello,
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: is there another rock? Sorry, we're not talking about Rocky. Yeah.
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 2: I think she had a picture of dad. Oh oh
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: so then okay, that was at the wedding all right.
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: A couple weeks later is the fourth that you love.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: We go to Breton's parents' house and I see a
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: car there I don't really recognize, okay, and on the
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: back they have a decal of Deadpool all right, riding
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: a Ynicorn. We're huge Marvel Deadpool nerds. Okay, it's a
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: younger kid. It's not everybody's favorite, right, And I'm assuming
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: that must be his brother's new wife because I don't
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: really see her. Well whatever, I assume that's her because
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: why not, right, So we go into the house and
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: nobody's there but his parents and lovely Miss Dorothy. We're like, oh,
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: we thought so and so was here and they're like no.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: Dorothy like is like, that's my car, and we're like
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: with the Deadpool thing, and.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: She was like, yeah, I love Deadpool. Oh my god,
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: I am obsessed with. I'm moving together for you know,
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 2: thirteen years now.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, I need to meet Dorothy next time I come
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: to visit because I want to be her now. I
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: just while we're on a side note, the reason I
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: say chocolate lover. I will never forget the day that
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: my mother looked at me and I can never say
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: his name, Sydney Portier. I think how you say? Yes?
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: My mom, he came up on TV and she was like, oh,
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: that is chocolate that could melt all over me. Huh,
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking, I'm in my forties. And I look
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: at her and I said, excuse me. She goes, oh yeah,
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: and there wouldn't be any left lick off. Oh oh, my's.
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: And that's why I call Schmarmore my chocolate lover, because
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: my yes, and I have Sidney Poortier melt on her.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: I can have Scham arrow More, Derek Moorean, whatever he
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: wants me to cast him. Oh, I can add hard
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: to say names to my repertoire. I can even say repertoire.
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: Now, Once he arrived at that disposal site, Or informed
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: the officer that he thought there was a bomb in
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: his car, and the officer looked under the car, removed
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: the item and told Or that it was just a harmless,
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: fake explosive and that most likely some kids looking for
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: a thrill placed it on his car.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: What kind of excuses that I'd be like, what the
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: fuck do you mean? This is not some harm.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: No, it's California. Yes, So Or was not convinced, and
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: the officer agreed to send the fake bomb to the
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: LAP to confirm it was fake. Or then agreed, but
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: first he took several pictures of the device, including the numbers,
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: which would lead the task force to realize Or did
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: not buy that whole fake bomb story, and they were
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: worried that he would track the devis back to the ATF. Yeah,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: you need to do a better job of sticking it. Now,
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: Or got back in his car and went to his
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: final day of training. Now, the task force was able
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: to gain entry into Ors hotel room on that last day,
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: and they did not find any evidence that he had
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: smoked any cigarettes in his room, and since they had
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: been watching him, they had never seen him take a
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: cigarette break, leaving them more convinced that he bought the
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: cigarettes to start more fires.
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's real suspicious.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 1: I mean maybe he bought them there so he wouldn't
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: get seen locally. I don't know. Lady and Greg.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: He was like, we'd whack a hot he was hot,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: We'd whack a hunt.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: Honey. He could make me sin and go to confessional
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: on Sunday.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: Jamar more, please come on a guest show. Jamar more anyway. Okay,
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: so the task force got another surprise when Or's wife
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: showed up on the final afternoon of the training surprise.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: They suspected that Or would not be starting any fires
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: while he was spending time with his wife, but they
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: stayed the course and followed the couple everywhere over the
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: next few days. Maybe you think he called her and
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: was like, hey, babe, why don't you come up. I
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: think this would be great, just to fuck with the
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: people trailer I do.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: I think they were having marital issues and she wanted
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: to go, and that's why he bought the cigarettes, and
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: he didn't start any fires because he knew she was
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: coming up.
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe that could be either or.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: Or separate cars going home.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's true, So his wife comes up. They
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: stayed the course, the investigators and followed the couple everywhere
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: over the next few days. The task force was, of
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: course frustrated when Or returned home without any new fires.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: They also were panicked because they feared Or had realized
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 2: it was a tracking device and that he was being watched.
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 2: And it's my personal opinion. I have nothing to base
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: this off of, but I think the same thing. I
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: think he did know that he was being watched, so
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: wanted a divorce. That's what I was wondering too. I
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 2: don't know how we got here, but that's what I thought.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: Well, guys, I have good news for you. Yes, this
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: is where we will stop for this week because I
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: know it is. I mean, this has been two hours
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: and twenty minutes of insanity and we have probably lost
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 1: every subscriber and follower we have after this insanity, and
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, it's okay. We have fun
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: and we love it. But guys, next week we are
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: going to continue the Pillow Pyro Part two. We're going
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: to dive deep into his arrest, the trial, the aftermath,
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: and the psyacology because the thing that you guys need
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: to understand. And I thought I had a good handle
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: on arsonist psychology, I actually learned some things. And it
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: took me longer to write and do research for part
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: two because I learned so many new things that they
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: have learned since all of this happened about firefighters Arsonist psychology.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: It is a little bit different than just your normal arsonist.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: And that is true.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: I find fascinating so motioned this is I'm glad you
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: think that. Thank you, We are so glad. Oh boy.
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: But mess, we are in the same area they wanted
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: to get intel, but also made a mess trying to
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 2: throw them off. Maybe so, yeah, I mean maybe so.
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: Shown he's not so smart, makes me realize why I
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: didn't pass the police academy. Sam. Okay, yeah, now, so
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: next week will not be as long okay thing either,
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: but here we are. It might be, but it will
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: be the last. Next Thursday will be the last time
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 1: y'all see me on camera for three weeks.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: Which is even more reason why it'll be later. But
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 2: join us next week for more see what we did there. Yes,
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 2: leave all of your orer pun comments in the comments
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: section because I love puns. I love puns so much.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: In case you couldn't tell, tonight, I do a lot.
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: Join us for.
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: Four two next Thursday, after his fortieth birthday.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: Seat.
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, it's hilarious. It writes yourself and
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: you guys again, we're not laughing at the devastating fires
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: and the dusts that it costs. We're laughing at John
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: Orr because John Orr is a piece of shit. Okay,
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 2: so we're making fun of him. Abecifically not necessarily his crimes,
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: which some people have a difficulty understanding.
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: But besides the people he killed, the property damage, the
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 1: people's homes, childhood photos, that's so important. Everything he also
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 1: destroyed and hurt his wife and his children. I mean,
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: I agree this sky caused so.
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 2: Many problems or is gonna have to replace its haslog?
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: I agree. I can't wait. No, how long until I
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: don't know, we're gonna have to put them together.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: No, this definitely caused long lasting drama for a lot
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: of people. You know, when fires happened, people are like, well,
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 2: it's just things, but those things can be very sentimental,
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: important things. For example, I can't picture stuff in my head.
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 2: I have apantasia. I have no visual memories whatsoever. I
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: can't close my eyes and even picture my own kid's face.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work that way. So a fire to take
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: all of the photos I have would be absolutely devastating.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: I know some people think that it is just things,
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: but it can be a lot, a lot more of priceless.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: Some of those families did not have fire insurance because
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 1: fire insurance is very expensive in California, and it's also
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties for Pete's sake. But you know, so,
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: not only did they lose everything, they didn't have money
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: to rebuild. And let's not forget the sweet little baby
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: and the people died because of this man. I mean,
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: he should be sitting in the smallest gel cell. Yes, yes,
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: so give me your clothes and thoughts.
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: All right, closing thoughts one. I have a a lot
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 2: of questions, because of course I do, but I'm pretty
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: sure that they're all going to be answered in part two,
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 2: or most of them of this story. Be sure you
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 2: watch this next week for part two, because I'm pretty
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 2: sure that's where a lot of my answers lie. But
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 2: I just want to say I've said this before when
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: we are covering Thomas Sweat. I find arsonists to be
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 2: very fascinating to learn about. I don't love what they do,
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: but why they do what they do is very very interesting.
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 2: And you might be thinking like, oh, this must be
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 2: a one off case of a firefire being an arsonist,
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: but oh no, turns out no, there are approximately one
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 2: hundred arrest per year of firefighter arson. Okay, yes, firefire
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: are one hundred a year, and there are all sorts
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: of prevention groups pamphlets, photocol or protocols, studies everything about
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 2: this very subject. It's a very real problem. Even to
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 2: this day, even before John pillowpyro or, this has been
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 2: a very big problem. And it's not even close to
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: being a new phenomenon. I know a lot of people
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 2: to be like, well, today things there are so much more. No,
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: it's always been around, always, uh, for a very long time.
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 2: And it's a fascinating rabbit hole to go down a
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 2: firefighter arsonists, It really really is. But I think we're obviously,
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: as Terry said, we're gonna explore more of the psychology
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: of that with part two next Thursday, and you guys
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: don't wanna, don't want to miss it because it's it's
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: really truly I don't understand it, I'll be honest, but donascinating.
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 1: Either in going down the rabbit hole of psychology reading
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 1: stories about firefighters who became arsonists who never had the
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 1: tendencies because of PTSD and trauma. I mean, it's it's great.
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 1: It's I mean not great.
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's it's like Munchausen by pros, right, it's usually
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 2: women with their children. I feel like this is kind
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 2: of the similar thing, right.
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, and that's why it is so fascinating to me.
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 1: It is so fascinating now, guys, this story hits me
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 1: on so many levels. If y'all couldn't tell. And the
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 1: reason I picked it. I grew up being told that firefighters,
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 1: like police officers, are the people who will save us
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: in who can trust us. My favorite aunt, Hollie, who
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: I spent summers with her husband, my uncle Red, was
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 1: a fire captain. My family's full of law enforcement and stuff,
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 1: so I grew up that if you need something, or
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: you need a safe person, you go to a firefighter,
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 1: a cop, or a priest.
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 2: And you should still should. Don't let bad apples, and
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: you still should.
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 1: But this does make you stop and think that you
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 1: need to still be a little cautious now, John, Or
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 1: could a young kid have gone to him for help? Yes,
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 1: you would have been safe. You know. He just liked
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: to set fires, Okay, But to me to learn that
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: someone who wore the firefighter's uniform, who trained others was respected,
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: and that secretly he was one of the most prolific
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: arsonists is not only shocking, it is devastating to my
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 1: little lego. I'm going to be honest, it's it is
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: hard to comprehend because he took an oath to protect us. Yeah,
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: and yet he was setting fires and destroying property. I
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 1: do not think he set out to intentionally kill anyone.
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think so either.
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, what your actions made you a.
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 2: Murderer, And I will say I don't think he actually
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 2: intended to kill anyone. I didn't really don't because so
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 2: many after that fire didn't turn into big things, right,
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 2: And I really do believe.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 1: That was I think he felt it back.
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 2: I really really do that they were made to not
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 2: be what happened at a lead captain.
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: He did keep going after and I think the reason
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 1: is because at that point, to me, it was an addiction,
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: and once you light that internal fire, so to speak,
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 1: he needed that. I think that it was a drug.
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: He needed it.
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 2: Common for our senates are fascinating to learn about because
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 2: things apply to them that don't necessarily apply to other
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: people of crime, let alone. Firefighter at arsenists are even
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 2: more fascinating too.
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: And to me, it's even worse that he's in California
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 1: because they already have severe wildflowers. You know, if it
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: would be somebody in Ohio or Montana, it probably wouldn't
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: have been as shocking to me, but California tries so
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: hard to minimize fires. They spend a lot of money.
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: And to know that he was supposed to protect it,
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: train others and he was actually destroying it, and at
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: the same time he was being called a hero.
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 2: John ore Is. I'm not going to say he's a
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 2: simple man. I really don't a simple man. I think
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 2: it is a very complex. It's very interesting. I cannot
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: wait for part two. So you, guys, part two you
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 2: want answers. We can give you some, can't give you
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: all of them, because that's not how that works. But
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: part two, you don't want to miss that for sure, Birthday.
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 1: He's not Potskam. He's not just an arsonist. We need
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 1: to remember he's a murderer.
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 2: That is true.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 1: That is something to die because if remember he is
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: not just an arsonist, he is a murderer.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 2: And I hope that haunts him, and I hope you're
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 2: a little boy, Matthew.
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 1: Wait until next week. I'm going to tell you it
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 1: does not haunt him. That's all I'm going to tell you.
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 1: Do not go do research, guys, you have no spoilers.
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 1: It does not haunt him.
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 2: That's true. Well, let's wrap up tonight's as so, shall
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: we can. We've been here way longer than honestly I
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: thought we would be. But in fairness, it's my birthday.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 2: We've been We've had a lot of fun. There's a
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 2: lot of story to tell. So whatever, we don't.
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 1: Care, go wait guy up, elbow feet and get some
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 1: birthday eleven.
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: Now, you guys, before we go. If you like what
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: you heard tonight, be sure to follow all of our
• 2:31:18
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• 2:31:22
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• 2:31:27
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• 2:31:31
  Speaker 2: our social media. If you're listening to our pod, please download,
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• 2:31:51
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• 2:31:56
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• 2:32:01
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• 2:32:06
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• 2:32:11
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• 2:32:13
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• 2:32:14
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm hilarious that you have down. But guys,
• 2:32:19
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• 2:32:33
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• 2:32:54
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• 2:32:59
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 1: My cous and I don't know how because they're not
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 1: those really really expensive ones. No cameltoe either, So buttery soft,
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 1: no camel toe.
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 1: I was shocked because I was worried. But they are amazing. Okay,
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 1: now next week guys on True Trum and Wine time,
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 1: guess what we are going to be doing more oorsonist.
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 1: How did I do there?
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 2: That was good? That's a good way.
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 1: So why don't you, oh tomorrow, Oh that's for you.
• 2:33:42
  Speaker 1: You tell them tomorrow.
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, Now, guys, if you need more Tarry True Crime
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 2: and I, you can always find us doing something on
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 2: our true crime in a Wine time YouTube channel. Now
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow is a very busy day again for me. I
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 2: can't wait to stream for like twelve mo our hours.
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow nine forty five am Eastern Time, we'll be starting
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 2: day three of the Mississippi versus Jeffrey Spence case.
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 1: And y'all, if you.
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 2: Haven't watched it yet, what a Place to Be has
• 2:34:16
  Speaker 2: not been disappointing.
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: Miss Spy is more interesting than I knew?
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 1: Who knew? I had?
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 2: No?
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is like clutch your pearls and bless
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 1: your heart. Oh I love it. I am obsessed, Well
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 1: I love I'm loving it.
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am obsessed with everyone involved in this case.
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 2: It's it's truly it's another family let's plot a murder
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 2: or somebody case, but it is very interesting. So we'll
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 2: be doing day three at nine forty five am Eastern
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 2: tomorrow and that less up till six o'clock and then
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: guess what four at for our lovely members or hire
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 2: of our YouTube channel, We're going to be doing our
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 2: first Zoom Room happy hour at seven pm Eastern. We'll
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 2: release the code for the room right before that. It
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 2: will not be recorded in any way, shape or form.
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 2: You are welcome to get on cameras on Mike's be yourself.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 2: You get to hang out with us for an hour
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 2: for my birthday, but also with us we get to
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 2: know you better before our live TMI Too Much Internet
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 2: show for our members at nine pm Eastern, which will
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: be apparently the Leavel Lava Lama Levels Up fortieth edition
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 2: with me, Terry, the Lovely Amas, and of course Elbow Feats.
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you for reminding me about the Zoom meeting because.
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 2: Darrylccome, you're welcome. This is like Lama runs the calendar.
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 1: It's on my calend. I would have known tomorrow when
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: I have my first call at seven am.
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 2: Well, members, you will get the link for that. Again,
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 2: you do not have to be on camera or audio
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 2: at joint.
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 1: If you've never done Zoom, you don't have to download
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: an app. You can do it from a web browbrowser.
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 2: There's an option right at the bottom, by the way,
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 2: because that's what I do. It says it right when
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 2: you pull up the room.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 1: By the way, there is no recording, no transcript, nothing.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 2: You're in there or be square that didn't work.
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 1: Score yeah, be there or be score.
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 2: Score of just that's embarrassing.
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 1: Let's not listen now.
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 2: That's what we'll be doing tomorrow. So tomorrow night we're
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 2: doing that. If you haven't yet, please do like this
• 2:36:54
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• 2:36:56
  Speaker 2: when we go live or drop an episode because I
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: told you we're on like literally all the time. If
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 2: you're listening on the podcast app, please download and leave
• 2:37:05
  Speaker 2: a review. It's my birthday, Can you just do it
• 2:37:08
  Speaker 2: this one time?
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 1: All right? Fortieth birthday? Birthday?
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 2: All right? Just do it for me, all right? And
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 2: it really helps other people find the show. Now, is
• 2:37:19
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• 2:37:22
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• 2:37:24
  Speaker 1: Terry, I would like to tell everyone thank you for
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 1: joining us live, those for watching us on the replay
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 1: or listening us on the podcast apps. I really appreciate
• 2:37:35
  Speaker 1: you not dropping your phone, throwing it against the wall
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 1: or hitting the end button because you thought we were crazy.
• 2:37:44
  Speaker 1: You appreciate it, but we are crazy, and guys, sometimes
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 1: these stories are so dark and so hard, and when
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 1: you live in the true crime world and the missing
• 2:37:54
  Speaker 1: person world, we need to find levity where we can.
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 1: And I needed this tonight because tomorrow I have seven
• 2:38:05
  Speaker 1: episodes to pre record for Midday, Missing that and a
• 2:38:11
  Speaker 1: call with a mom of a missing person. So I
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 1: needed this tonight. So thank you for not canceling us,
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 1: for not hanging up on us, and for being okay
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 1: with all of our stuff because that's where we are.
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 1: That is well.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you all everyone for listening and supporting us in
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 2: all the numerous ways that you do. Until next time,
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 2: take care of your mind, take care of each other,
• 2:38:44
  Speaker 2: and never stop asking the hard questions like in this
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 2: case Captain Casey, our hero, who will learn more about
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 2: next in part two. Now you everybody, as I always say,
• 2:38:57
  Speaker 2: go forth and be amazing.
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 1: Thought of something If you would like to send a
• 2:39:03
  Speaker 1: happy birthday greeting oh jeez or Lama, if you could
• 2:39:06
  Speaker 1: please email that to Amy at tcwtmedia dot com, or
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: if you snipped it or something that you just found
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 1: so funny you couldn't live everyone, please be sure to
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 1: send that.
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 2: Bye everyone, and bye everyone. Yes, please send that to
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 2: Amy so she stops harassing me or John send anything
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 2: either way.
• 2:39:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much. Bye,