Latest / Ridiculous History / Would-be Presidents, Part One: If At First You Don't Succeed...

Transcript

Would-be Presidents, Part One: If At First You Don't Succeed... · Ridiculous History

0:00
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
0:27
Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always
0:30
Speaker 1: so much fortuning in we are. Uh we're talking about
0:35
Speaker 1: losers today. Oh man, I'm a loser baby, so why
0:40
Speaker 1: don't you kill me? Speaking of that air, remember that band,
0:43
Speaker 1: the Presidents of the United States of America. Yeah, changed
0:47
Speaker 1: the world with only five strings between them. Yeah. I
0:50
Speaker 1: was about to say, yeah, that was their whole gimmick,
0:52
Speaker 1: but I really listened to a couple of their tunes.
0:55
Speaker 1: They had that song Lump, which I think is still
0:57
Speaker 1: kind of a banger. Uh. And then of course Connat
1:00
Speaker 1: forget peaches, you know, being situated where we are millions
1:04
Speaker 1: of peaches, peaches for me? Um, you like peaches, Ben, Yeah,
1:09
Speaker 1: I'm not averse to a peach. There's something I think
1:13
Speaker 1: my childhood view of peaches was probably skewed because I
1:18
Speaker 1: had had to pick them in the past. And then
1:20
Speaker 1: also growing up, there were a lot of poems out
1:23
Speaker 1: there about how sensual peaches are, so theoic fruits exactly,
1:28
Speaker 1: so that that was a weird thing for young Ben
1:31
Speaker 1: to hear. And and your noll and that's our super
1:34
Speaker 1: producer Max Williams, who also Max, this idea was your concept.
1:42
Speaker 1: You came to us with this. We think it's gonna
1:44
Speaker 1: be a continuing series. We're not going to do them
1:47
Speaker 1: all consecutively because, as it turns out, maybe we're being
1:50
Speaker 1: a little unfair when we call these folks losers. The
1:54
Speaker 1: better term would be people who repeatedly and on six
2:00
Speaker 1: fully ran for president, which is, you know, there's no
2:04
Speaker 1: shame in that only forty six people have ever had
2:07
Speaker 1: the job, right, Yeah, I mean it's definitely you're in
2:12
Speaker 1: somewhat of a rarefied air, you know, um, with that
2:16
Speaker 1: particular job. And as we know, it doesn't necessarily like
2:19
Speaker 1: pay a gazillion dollars, but it does afford some pretty
2:23
Speaker 1: serious opportunities after the fact for book deals. And not
2:27
Speaker 1: to mention all of the the associations and contacts that
2:30
Speaker 1: you make well in that job that you can then
2:32
Speaker 1: parlay into other interesting gigs as a civilian. Oh yeah,
2:37
Speaker 1: good call on that. When you got the book deals,
2:39
Speaker 1: you got the speaking circuit, you've got all sorts of
2:42
Speaker 1: boards and foundations. Yeah, you're and you get a pension
2:46
Speaker 1: unless you really mess up. So if you have been president,
2:50
Speaker 1: even an unpopular president. Uh, then you are pretty well
2:55
Speaker 1: set up for the rest of your life in the
2:56
Speaker 1: in the public sector. But we know, we know there
3:00
Speaker 1: are elections in democracies, which means there has to be
3:03
Speaker 1: a loser, there has to be a winner, and we
3:06
Speaker 1: all remember the names of the winners because you know,
3:09
Speaker 1: history is sort of written by the winners when you
3:11
Speaker 1: think about it. But like Max pointed out, we don't
3:15
Speaker 1: know the names of a lot of the unsuccessful candidates,
3:21
Speaker 1: you know, like the gold Waters for instance, or the
3:24
Speaker 1: uh Samuel J. Tilden's. You would know about that if
3:27
Speaker 1: you are an historian or if you're a big presidential
3:31
Speaker 1: history buff. And uh, I don't you know what this
3:35
Speaker 1: reminded me of at the top. And I know we're
3:37
Speaker 1: going to talk about it later. But when you guys
3:39
Speaker 1: were growing up and you're in history class in school,
3:44
Speaker 1: did you ever hear those stories where the teacher would say, well,
3:48
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln ran and then he lost, but he didn't
3:53
Speaker 1: give up. And that's America, you know, as America, baby,
3:58
Speaker 1: never give up. But sometimes that perseverance ain't for nothing.
4:02
Speaker 1: It can pay off. Sometimes. We've got five presidents in
4:05
Speaker 1: particular where that stick tuitiveness that can do spirit has
4:09
Speaker 1: in fact led to great success. We've got your Thomas Jefferson's,
4:13
Speaker 1: and Andrew Jackson's and William Henry Harrison's and Grover Cleveland's
4:17
Speaker 1: of the world, and also Richard Nixon, who was a
4:20
Speaker 1: loser for a different reason. All these fellas finished as
4:23
Speaker 1: a second place winners, runner ups, also rans, but then
4:27
Speaker 1: they later won themselves the presidential election. But unfortunately, there
4:33
Speaker 1: were quite a few um folks, maybe not quite a few,
4:36
Speaker 1: but a few folks who ran on a major party
4:40
Speaker 1: ticket a second time and lost, and two folks who
4:45
Speaker 1: even did it a third time and uh also lost
4:48
Speaker 1: that third time. And before we get into our examples
4:53
Speaker 1: for part one of this series, I just gotta note
4:57
Speaker 1: that's kind of unusual for jobs in general. If you
5:00
Speaker 1: apply for a job and they say you're not the
5:03
Speaker 1: right fit, and then you come back next year and
5:05
Speaker 1: you say how about now, And then you come back
5:08
Speaker 1: the third time and say how about now. I'm gonna
5:11
Speaker 1: say it's even worse than that bend. So it would
5:13
Speaker 1: be like, you know, if I came here and I
5:16
Speaker 1: talked to you about it and you're like, yeah, mix,
5:17
Speaker 1: I'll see you took me up to the I hearts
5:19
Speaker 1: high ups and they're now, he's good. And then a
5:21
Speaker 1: year later I came to you and you said, yeah,
5:23
Speaker 1: let's do that again. And we go to the higher
5:25
Speaker 1: ups and like, no, no, seriously, we're not doing this.
5:28
Speaker 1: We did a third time because it's like they got
5:30
Speaker 1: the nomination from their party a couple of times, not
5:34
Speaker 1: like they just showed up and said let's do this.
5:37
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny about that, maxas Nolan, I have
5:39
Speaker 1: done that exact thing before with some of our Deam members.
5:43
Speaker 1: I assumed as much. But because we could be we
5:46
Speaker 1: could be a bit tenacious. Now, I think that's you know,
5:50
Speaker 1: I think that's a good character quality for both of us.
5:53
Speaker 1: Maybe that makes us regular. Charles C. Pinkneys not to
5:57
Speaker 1: be confused with another guy named just Charles Pinkney is important. Yeah,
6:03
Speaker 1: this is very different people. We're talking here today about
6:05
Speaker 1: Charles Coostworth Pinkney of February of the twenty five, seventeen
6:12
Speaker 1: hundred and forty six. He was a soldier, diplomat, statesman
6:17
Speaker 1: UH destined for a life of public service. Um In
6:21
Speaker 1: seventeen sixty nine, he became a member of the South
6:24
Speaker 1: Carolina Assembly, served his country in the South Carolina First
6:29
Speaker 1: Provincial Congress of seventeen seventy five, and he later um
6:35
Speaker 1: was a member of both houses of the South Carolina
6:37
Speaker 1: Legislate tour. Yeah, yeah, so he's involved in politics from
6:43
Speaker 1: early on. His involvement in American politics pre dates the
6:48
Speaker 1: United States. That's how old school he is. He later
6:52
Speaker 1: worked with George Washington in a couple of different capacities.
6:57
Speaker 1: He commanded a regiment in Savannah Up. He was there
7:01
Speaker 1: at the Constitutional Convention along with his cousin, the other
7:05
Speaker 1: guy named Charles Pinkney. And and here's what went down
7:12
Speaker 1: with our buddy Chuck. It's sevent The Federalist Party, which
7:17
Speaker 1: was still a big thing, supports John Adams for president.
7:21
Speaker 1: But their vote got split, and because their vote got split,
7:26
Speaker 1: Old Tommy J. Thomas Jefferson became the vice president. And
7:32
Speaker 1: this was this is something that I think all students
7:35
Speaker 1: of US history have found kind of weird for a
7:39
Speaker 1: while there at the beginning, if you won the election,
7:44
Speaker 1: you became president. The guy who was running against you,
7:48
Speaker 1: or excuse me, the person who is running against you,
7:51
Speaker 1: automatically became vice president. So your worst nemesis is supposed
7:57
Speaker 1: to be your co pilot of democracy. It made for
8:01
Speaker 1: some awkward state dinners. We can only imagine. Oh, absolutely,
8:06
Speaker 1: it sure did. Election was in fact a rematch between
8:12
Speaker 1: Adams and Jefferson in order to keep the same result
8:16
Speaker 1: from transpiring a second time, repeating the seventeen nineties six elections.
8:22
Speaker 1: Both parties um essentially wanted to ensure that their electors
8:28
Speaker 1: were united. You know those those those tricks the electors, right,
8:32
Speaker 1: those are the ones that the members of the college. Yeah, exactly.
8:36
Speaker 1: So they said, let's move as a unit, Let's be
8:40
Speaker 1: a unified front. We don't want the enemy in our
8:42
Speaker 1: house again. So Adams on the Federalist side runs with
8:48
Speaker 1: uh whom the person Max's side referred to as our boy,
8:51
Speaker 1: Charles Coatsworth Pinckney, while Jefferson's running mate was u the
8:56
Speaker 1: infamous Aaron Burr of Hamilton's fame. That whole election could
9:01
Speaker 1: be its own episode. But the long story short, as
9:07
Speaker 1: the Internet says the t L d R version, is
9:10
Speaker 1: that their system didn't work. It wasn't the best idea.
9:14
Speaker 1: Jefferson still became president instead of Aaron Burr, So Charles
9:21
Speaker 1: Pinkney is not in the game. But he doesn't give up.
9:25
Speaker 1: He takes this on the chin, he hits the he
9:28
Speaker 1: hits the floor of the boxing ring, and he says,
9:32
Speaker 1: you know, he gets up like Captain America. He's like,
9:34
Speaker 1: I could do this all day. And he runs for
9:37
Speaker 1: president again in eighteen o four, and this did not
9:42
Speaker 1: go particularly well. Um. Jefferson was in a particularly good position,
9:47
Speaker 1: the kaw bird seat as it were, to win that
9:50
Speaker 1: second term. Um. He had maintained moderate policy agendas that
9:56
Speaker 1: helped him kind of become the sort of go between
9:59
Speaker 1: the of the parties, the Federalists and Democratic Republicans um
10:03
Speaker 1: to you know, basically playing partisan politics. Jefferson secured all
10:08
Speaker 1: of the electors except just just a couple of Connecticut,
10:11
Speaker 1: Delaware and two of Maryland's votes, and Pinckney then would
10:16
Speaker 1: go on to try again in eighteen o eight, and
10:19
Speaker 1: this time things looked a lot more sunshiny for the guy. Thomas.
10:24
Speaker 1: Jefferson had kind of blessed James Madison, who was his
10:28
Speaker 1: Secretary of States, given him the the old the successorship
10:33
Speaker 1: kind of you know, seal of approval. Um. But there
10:37
Speaker 1: was this thing that could cause sort of like a
10:39
Speaker 1: bit of an outcry, a bit of an uproar amongst
10:42
Speaker 1: the citizen read the Embargo Act of eighteen oh seven,
10:46
Speaker 1: which was a risky foreign policy maneuver Jefferson and Madison
10:52
Speaker 1: had come up with, and it had some unfortunate, unintended consequences,
10:58
Speaker 1: some negative impacts on the States economy, and it led
11:03
Speaker 1: to kind of fracturing within the Democratic Republican Party, some
11:08
Speaker 1: sort of splintering of of of groups. Yeah, so the
11:11
Speaker 1: Embargo Act is pretty it's a pretty broad brush, to
11:16
Speaker 1: be honest. The idea was that Uncle Sam wanted to
11:21
Speaker 1: stop the United Kingdom stopped written from basically pressing American
11:27
Speaker 1: sailors into non consensual service, and as like, that's the
11:33
Speaker 1: seed of the idea. What it ended up being is
11:37
Speaker 1: a general trade embargo on all foreign nations, which is
11:41
Speaker 1: very bad for a young nation. Right, so this was
11:45
Speaker 1: terrible for business. It doesn't make Jefferson look great. And
11:50
Speaker 1: the Federalist Party, which again still a thing, it says,
11:54
Speaker 1: you know, you guys aren't even going far enough with
11:57
Speaker 1: how bad the Embargo Act is. As a matter effect,
12:00
Speaker 1: we think James Madison is working against this country. We
12:06
Speaker 1: find him seditious, traitorous, because how else could you explain
12:11
Speaker 1: such a stupid, unhelpful policy. And uh, because of that
12:16
Speaker 1: in this time of chaos, uh C C. Pinks Charles C.
12:20
Speaker 1: Pinkney is elected as the presidential nominee because people hate
12:26
Speaker 1: him less just right now, that's terrible guy. Yeah, sort
12:33
Speaker 1: of sounds like a bit of a mirror of of
12:35
Speaker 1: current politics. Maybe not quite as extreme, but yeah, I
12:39
Speaker 1: don't think people were exactly super stoked about Biden, but
12:43
Speaker 1: he was definitely, you know, better than the alternative for
12:47
Speaker 1: folks on the Democratic side. Um, so right, he was nominated.
12:52
Speaker 1: He get the nomination just in of itself a big
12:54
Speaker 1: deal because they're really having to put all of their support,
12:58
Speaker 1: put all of their eggs in his proverbial bad skit.
13:00
Speaker 1: And former US Ambassador and New York Senator Rufus King
13:05
Speaker 1: was nominated for vice president. And that is the exact
13:08
Speaker 1: same ticket that the Federalists had presented back in eighteen
13:13
Speaker 1: oh four. So history repeating, Yeah, also shout out to
13:17
Speaker 1: the old, the old figure of speech that if you
13:21
Speaker 1: it's insanity to do the same thing and expect different results.
13:25
Speaker 1: So they just said, hey, remember that thing that didn't
13:27
Speaker 1: work last time around? What about now? Right now that
13:31
Speaker 1: things are worse. And uh, the Federalists were doing pretty
13:36
Speaker 1: well in New England, but unfortunately they didn't do well enough.
13:44
Speaker 1: Madison won the electoral college again. You got a hundred
13:49
Speaker 1: twenty two electoral votes to Pinkney's forty seven. And what
13:53
Speaker 1: this meant is that the Democrat slash Republican party is
13:58
Speaker 1: becoming a clear winner. It's just got the It's the
14:02
Speaker 1: lebron of political parties at this point, which is a
14:07
Speaker 1: little unfair because there are way more people playing basketball
14:10
Speaker 1: today than there are political parties in the US, But
14:13
Speaker 1: don't overthink the comparison. What we're saying is this was
14:17
Speaker 1: the nail in the coffin for Pinkneys attempts at running
14:21
Speaker 1: for president. And he says, you know what, I gave
14:25
Speaker 1: it a goo, I gave it my my due diligence,
14:28
Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna go into law I'm just gonna
14:32
Speaker 1: be a lawyer. A lot of these guys were lawyers basically,
14:35
Speaker 1: so it's not as if he was hurting for a
14:38
Speaker 1: job now and that that continues to be a pretty
14:41
Speaker 1: important prerequisite to this day. Right. I mean a lot
14:44
Speaker 1: of folks that successfully when the presidency do have backgrounds
14:48
Speaker 1: in law. Oh yeah, And there's there's also an interesting
14:51
Speaker 1: thing when you look at other countries, like in I
14:55
Speaker 1: believe it was the government of China, the majority of
15:00
Speaker 1: political figures tend to be engineers or people with an
15:04
Speaker 1: engineering background, whereas the majority of people, or a huge
15:08
Speaker 1: minority at least a significant portion of politicians in the
15:12
Speaker 1: US are as you said attorneys. Now, do you think
15:15
Speaker 1: that's just a cultural difference or is there something in
15:20
Speaker 1: that system of government that's conducive to, you know, having
15:24
Speaker 1: that background being sort of helpful versus ours. Yeah, it's
15:28
Speaker 1: a good question, man, I've always wondered, and I don't
15:30
Speaker 1: have an answer for that, but we would of course
15:34
Speaker 1: love to hear your take on that, folks. And and
15:36
Speaker 1: the statistic may have changed over time, but I remember
15:40
Speaker 1: reading that's that's one that stayed with me. So there
15:43
Speaker 1: we go. Our first guy, who is ever ever the
15:49
Speaker 1: best man, never the groom of the wedding of American politics,
15:53
Speaker 1: Charles Codsworth Pinkney. Uh. He seems to unfordly have a
16:01
Speaker 1: contagious air of defeat about him because later federalist nominees
16:08
Speaker 1: like DeWitt Clinton run and they lose to Madison again
16:13
Speaker 1: and then in eighteen sixteen Rufus King, who you mentioned earlier,
16:18
Speaker 1: former vice president candidate, vice presidential candidate, to Pinkney. He
16:23
Speaker 1: runs and he gets waxed. Uh, nobody, nobody is backing
16:31
Speaker 1: the Federalist Party enough to even really swing the needle.
16:36
Speaker 1: So that is Pinkney. And you could also make a
16:39
Speaker 1: case that part of the reason you don't hear about
16:43
Speaker 1: the Federalist Party running candidates now are like as a
16:48
Speaker 1: pet political party, is because of this series of defeats
16:53
Speaker 1: throughout this era of history. There's still the Federalist Society.
16:58
Speaker 1: But that's uh, that's a whole other bag of badgers.
17:07
Speaker 1: All right. Up next, we have a fellow that kind
17:12
Speaker 1: of hits home. It's a little close to home, at
17:14
Speaker 1: least conceptually, a guy named Henry Clay. Here's a quote
17:18
Speaker 1: from Senate dot gov on Henry Clay. Henry Clay enjoyed
17:22
Speaker 1: a distinguished political career, even though he never attained his
17:25
Speaker 1: greatest desire, the presidency. Poor Henry Clay didn't get his
17:29
Speaker 1: heart's desire. What he did get, though, is immortalized in
17:33
Speaker 1: indie rockdom with the Los Angeles based band The Henry
17:38
Speaker 1: Clay People, who, according to their Wikipedia is the unofficial
17:42
Speaker 1: house band of our pals, Josh and Chuck's podcast Stuff
17:46
Speaker 1: you Should Know. Nice. Yeah. And Henry Clay was a
17:52
Speaker 1: politician of note. He had his bona fides, he had
17:55
Speaker 1: his stripes, he was a man of the state, but
17:58
Speaker 1: he never attained the holy grail for every US politician,
18:03
Speaker 1: which is the presidency. He's born on April twelfth, seventeen
18:07
Speaker 1: seventy seven in Hanover County, Virginia. Like a lot of
18:11
Speaker 1: people at the time, he did not have the most
18:13
Speaker 1: extensive for formal education, but he still taught himself law
18:20
Speaker 1: and was admitted to the bar in both Kentucky and
18:23
Speaker 1: Virginia in seventeen nineties seven, so at the at the
18:27
Speaker 1: young age of twenty. And then he becomes a member
18:30
Speaker 1: of the Kentucky House Representatives, where he serves well. He
18:34
Speaker 1: serves three separate terms in the US House, and he
18:39
Speaker 1: gets to be Speaker of the House pretty frequently. If
18:42
Speaker 1: you've been paying attention to US news, you know that
18:45
Speaker 1: was recently a whole kerfuffle. Uh. And then he was
18:49
Speaker 1: in the U s Senate not once, but four different times,
18:53
Speaker 1: and over the course of his political career he just
18:58
Speaker 1: keeps trying to run for president it and it just
19:01
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't work out. Let's go to uh, maybe
19:06
Speaker 1: let's let's do that. But first, really quickly, I just
19:08
Speaker 1: want to get pulled the room here. What is that about?
19:13
Speaker 1: So this is this drive that we're sort of exploring.
19:16
Speaker 1: You know, you're already you already have a successful career
19:19
Speaker 1: in politics, you know, as we know, I mean theoretically,
19:22
Speaker 1: you kind of make more of an impact as a
19:25
Speaker 1: member of the legislature. You know, you can actually affect
19:28
Speaker 1: laws and things like that in your constituents and you're
19:30
Speaker 1: actually working for the people. The president is a bit
19:33
Speaker 1: more of a figurehead job, and you definitely have a
19:35
Speaker 1: lot of power and you can veto things and all
19:37
Speaker 1: of that. But it just feels like where where where
19:41
Speaker 1: is the drive? Where where does that come from? Is
19:43
Speaker 1: it about like, you know, wanting to be the top dog?
19:46
Speaker 1: Is it entirely ego driven? Or is there something that
19:50
Speaker 1: I'm missing as to maybe this Henry clay Fellow or
19:53
Speaker 1: you know, our buddy Pinkney just really thought that they
19:56
Speaker 1: could affect more change from the presidential palace. I mean,
20:00
Speaker 1: I won't speak to all of them, but I will
20:02
Speaker 1: speak about I think this for Henry Clay is there
20:05
Speaker 1: was just kind of this assumption with these guys that
20:08
Speaker 1: eventually they would be president. They paid their dues, they
20:12
Speaker 1: deserved the seat, and there were and there we was
20:14
Speaker 1: so like instrumental and policy decisions and stuff. And the
20:18
Speaker 1: truth is, like, you know, as president, you can really
20:21
Speaker 1: lead what direction and policies are going. Like obviously you
20:25
Speaker 1: aren't in on the day to day of the making
20:28
Speaker 1: and passing of the of the policies, but you're like,
20:30
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this thing. It's gonna most likely get done,
20:33
Speaker 1: or at least party is gonna push for it. So
20:34
Speaker 1: you're really kind of spearheaded and setting the tone. You
20:37
Speaker 1: also have as president, Uh, you have particular powers in
20:42
Speaker 1: the realm of foreign relations and policy, so as in
20:47
Speaker 1: this time in the eighteen hundreds, right, Uh, this would
20:50
Speaker 1: be an instrumental lever of power. And also, like you said,
20:55
Speaker 1: when people are uh, sort of inculcated in the system,
20:59
Speaker 1: there in inch there the devil, you know, which gives
21:02
Speaker 1: them a tremendous advantage over like a person of the people,
21:08
Speaker 1: even though so many politicians try to portray themselves that way.
21:12
Speaker 1: That's why you see I don't know what it's sound
21:14
Speaker 1: too conspiratorial, but that's why you see people who are
21:17
Speaker 1: deep in Washington, d C. Culture come election time all
21:21
Speaker 1: of a sudden pretending to own a farm. They're walking
21:24
Speaker 1: around their Menden offense. Now they have a truck, They
21:27
Speaker 1: got a cowboy hat. It makes no sense, they don't
21:30
Speaker 1: wear that normally. But now look at me hunting exactly exactly.
21:36
Speaker 1: So um, that's that business of garnering favor has always
21:42
Speaker 1: existed in some way. And I would also but also
21:45
Speaker 1: point out that you have to you have to be
21:47
Speaker 1: pretty ambitious to want and pursue a job that only
21:53
Speaker 1: one person can have at a time, and less than
21:56
Speaker 1: fifty people have ever had, you know what I mean,
21:59
Speaker 1: They're can be more than one astronaut at a time.
22:01
Speaker 1: But there's an ego there. As a little as about
22:04
Speaker 1: to say it's a it's a mixed bag. I mean,
22:06
Speaker 1: certainly I agree about you know, being able to kind
22:08
Speaker 1: of steer the party's you know, agenda. Let's just say, um,
22:13
Speaker 1: but I think that that rarefied air that we talked
22:15
Speaker 1: about the top of the show certainly smells really sweet
22:19
Speaker 1: to some of these folks, including our buddy Henry Clay
22:22
Speaker 1: who ran for president in eighty seven. UM and apparently
22:28
Speaker 1: this one went down as one of the most nasty,
22:33
Speaker 1: hard fought, chaotic, and corrupt elections in American history. Now,
22:39
Speaker 1: I don't know if that um stacks how that stacks
22:42
Speaker 1: up against the insurrection, you know that we've seen of
22:46
Speaker 1: of recent years. I would think that one probably will
22:49
Speaker 1: hold a place in that historical canon. I mean, I
22:54
Speaker 1: don't know. This one I actually got decided by the
22:56
Speaker 1: House of Representatives, which was kind of the goal of
22:58
Speaker 1: the insurrection was to get to that point. Okay, so
23:01
Speaker 1: this one took it a step further, maybe with a
23:04
Speaker 1: little bit less actual, you know, violence on our hometh So,
23:10
Speaker 1: with the fall of the Federalist Party, the Democratic Republicans
23:14
Speaker 1: were now the only game in town. They were the
23:16
Speaker 1: one major American political party, which seems kind of counterintuit
23:21
Speaker 1: at the whole idea of political parties. Then the UM.
23:24
Speaker 1: So four candidates were running for office. We have your
23:27
Speaker 1: John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, somebody named William Crawford. He
23:32
Speaker 1: seems to have faded a bit from from political memory.
23:35
Speaker 1: Well he basically nearly died during the election. So yeah, Okay, okay,
23:41
Speaker 1: poor guy, we'll get back to him and our buddy
23:44
Speaker 1: Henry Clay. Uh. And they were all running under the
23:48
Speaker 1: you know, I guess heading of Democratic Republicans. Isn't that
23:52
Speaker 1: funny now? The idea of Democratic Republicans, it seems like
23:56
Speaker 1: a like an oxymorn, right, like jumbo shrimp. You right there,
24:01
Speaker 1: you go. I think you're right. There's a huge danger
24:05
Speaker 1: to only one political party running the show, or honestly,
24:10
Speaker 1: only two political parties running the show. But these four
24:15
Speaker 1: different candidates, they all represent these different regions, these different
24:21
Speaker 1: parts of US identity, and these very different ideologies. So
24:27
Speaker 1: when the electoral votes all I get counted up, which
24:30
Speaker 1: is again not the popular vote. Jackson gets votes, Adams
24:36
Speaker 1: gets eighty four, Crawford gets forty one, Clay gets thirty seven.
24:41
Speaker 1: And what this means is that nobody got a majority.
24:46
Speaker 1: There's no clear winner. What's that? Yeah, what's obvious is
24:49
Speaker 1: that these people from the regions of their chosen candidate
24:53
Speaker 1: are just supporting their boy. And that doesn't make for
24:57
Speaker 1: a very clean cut election, sent I mean, at least
25:00
Speaker 1: when you have to you know, political parties that are
25:04
Speaker 1: that are kind of splitting people's you know, attention and
25:08
Speaker 1: and uh and and opinions down very specific ideological lines
25:13
Speaker 1: usually gives you something while pretty close to fifty fifties,
25:17
Speaker 1: sometimes in terms of the country's perspective, uh, usually ekes
25:21
Speaker 1: out a little bit on one side. Yeah, exactly, And
25:25
Speaker 1: sometimes that margin is laughably close, right uh. And then
25:30
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems pretty historic and secure. Neither of those
25:34
Speaker 1: cases happened here. The House of Representatives then had to
25:38
Speaker 1: choose among the top three people. They went back to
25:41
Speaker 1: the their paperwork and they looked at the twelfth Amendment
25:44
Speaker 1: and they said, Okay, it's us. It's up to us,
25:47
Speaker 1: great reps that we are to, you know, pick one
25:51
Speaker 1: of these three. So Jackson, Adams or Crawford. So Clay
25:55
Speaker 1: is cut out old old Henry Dice Clay kidding, Uh,
26:00
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be fun? It was man for president? The
26:03
Speaker 1: Dice man comments, Oh, this guy, I don't know. Man.
26:05
Speaker 1: His comedy did not age. Well. It's a fun artifact though,
26:09
Speaker 1: to experience, because you can you can find some of
26:12
Speaker 1: his stand ups on YouTube. And the best part about
26:15
Speaker 1: it is watching the audience. They are the yuppiest yuppies,
26:20
Speaker 1: the whitest yuppiest yuppies I've ever seen in my entire life,
26:24
Speaker 1: and they just think his Mary had a little lamb
26:26
Speaker 1: and she was you know like, uh, you can bleep
26:30
Speaker 1: that part out. That's literally his whole bit. You know,
26:33
Speaker 1: it's just saying dirty, transgressive words. But when I was
26:36
Speaker 1: a kid, I'll be honest, I love that stuff. I
26:38
Speaker 1: didn't know most of what it meant, but I knew
26:39
Speaker 1: I would get in trouble if I said it. And
26:41
Speaker 1: I was like, look at this guy, you know he's hot. Oh,
26:46
Speaker 1: but yeah, Henry Henry Clay, and what we can only
26:49
Speaker 1: imagine it was a tremendous Oh gets eliminated. He can't
26:54
Speaker 1: be president, but he's still Speaker of the House. So
26:57
Speaker 1: you have lost the game, and now you're the guy
27:01
Speaker 1: who decides who wins the game, which you know could
27:06
Speaker 1: be a recipe for bitterness to a lesser statesman. Ultimately,
27:11
Speaker 1: February nine, Adams is elected president. He wins thirteen states.
27:19
Speaker 1: This gives him the majority. And uh, right after Adams
27:24
Speaker 1: gets inaugurated, Clay becomes Secretary of State, which to me
27:29
Speaker 1: sounds like a little bit of quake proquila clarice watching
27:34
Speaker 1: the other Yeah, now that film does hold up. It
27:38
Speaker 1: absolutely holds I'm not how good that is. It's very good,
27:41
Speaker 1: But you know why it holds up, Ben, because it's
27:44
Speaker 1: just good, and it doesn't feel like it's repping an
27:48
Speaker 1: era per se, or like it doesn't have any hallmarks
27:51
Speaker 1: of eighties or nineties nous. It was one of those
27:54
Speaker 1: like eighties nineties CUSP movies, but like anything that these
27:57
Speaker 1: remotely dated works for the movie, like that song good
28:01
Speaker 1: Bye Horses, obviously very eighties sounding song, but the way
28:05
Speaker 1: it's used is just iconic, and it just you'll never
28:09
Speaker 1: hear that song and not think of Buffalo Bill dancing
28:13
Speaker 1: tucked in the mirror. Yeah, and also that kind of
28:17
Speaker 1: when you do really well in a role like that, actor,
28:20
Speaker 1: it can be bad for your career to be a
28:23
Speaker 1: very talented portrayer of a serial killer. He did go
28:26
Speaker 1: on to have a pretty good, long running career, I
28:29
Speaker 1: believe in one of the Law and Order series. Yes, yeah,
28:32
Speaker 1: I think you're right, one of the true crime things.
28:34
Speaker 1: But but you didn't. You didn't seem in a ton
28:37
Speaker 1: and ton of blockbuster feature films anyway. Weirdly though, they
28:40
Speaker 1: also didn't cast him as another serial killer creep. To
28:43
Speaker 1: my recollection, wasn't done, just like the the guys in
28:48
Speaker 1: mind Hunters were saying, Hey, this will be my one
28:51
Speaker 1: time as Ed Kemper or whatever. Although not to contradict
28:56
Speaker 1: you to directly, Ben, but the guy that played Charles
28:59
Speaker 1: Manson in mind hunt also played Charles Manson and once
29:01
Speaker 1: upon a time of Belly. Well, that guy is an
29:03
Speaker 1: exception because he looks exactly like Charles. Why he has
29:08
Speaker 1: to do that? If he had a job selling cars,
29:11
Speaker 1: he's manager would say, hey, man, you're either doing great
29:15
Speaker 1: because everybody wants to buy a car from Manson, or
29:18
Speaker 1: you're doing terrible because everybody is scared how much you by,
29:21
Speaker 1: how much you resembled Charles Manson. Anyway, last, uh, last
29:26
Speaker 1: point on this uh, and this is a controversial point
29:29
Speaker 1: before you move on with Clay Uh. I was listening
29:33
Speaker 1: to unrelated research for different show. I was listening to
29:36
Speaker 1: a lot of actual interviews with serial murderers, and not
29:39
Speaker 1: in a glorified way. It hit me, and I hate
29:43
Speaker 1: to say it, but I think most serial murders would
29:46
Speaker 1: probably want a podcast, and I think I think Ed
29:51
Speaker 1: Kemper probably could have hosted a podcast. Oh yeah, Charles
29:57
Speaker 1: Manson definitely could have I bet his podcast would have
29:59
Speaker 1: been called Stack the Nickels, you know, with with Charles
30:03
Speaker 1: the game is the game his mind back to Henry Clay, which,
30:09
Speaker 1: by the way, does strike me as a bit of
30:11
Speaker 1: a serial killer. I can't say there's no proof that
30:13
Speaker 1: he's not a serial killer. You like that, that little
30:17
Speaker 1: bit of logic Parkour, that's how we do, that's how
30:20
Speaker 1: that's all it takes. You know, no, no, no proof
30:22
Speaker 1: to the contrary. But at this point, you know, I
30:25
Speaker 1: certainly probably likely would have said, you know what, kat,
30:31
Speaker 1: I can't I'm done, I'm moving on. I'm gonna do
30:33
Speaker 1: something else, or it would have broken my psyche and
30:36
Speaker 1: then I may have become Henry Clay the serial killer.
30:40
Speaker 1: But Henry Clay was not your average guy, and he
30:43
Speaker 1: decided that he absolutely wanted to continue this pursuit. Yeah,
30:49
Speaker 1: so he still wants to become president again. Tenacious, ambitious,
30:53
Speaker 1: and not one to give up easily. He gets his
30:57
Speaker 1: next chance in eighteen thirty two, and he's directly running
31:01
Speaker 1: against Andrew Jackson. Jackson is still a pretty popular guy
31:06
Speaker 1: in politics as he's ending his first term as president.
31:11
Speaker 1: But there's kind of a trash person though, right, Yeah,
31:14
Speaker 1: He's one of those dudes that really, upon further inspection,
31:18
Speaker 1: was like one of the worst. Yeah. But the kind
31:21
Speaker 1: of the problem with it, especially this error of politics,
31:24
Speaker 1: is Wow, that person is a trash person who they
31:26
Speaker 1: running against. You look at who they're running against. That
31:28
Speaker 1: person is somehow even more of a trash person who
31:30
Speaker 1: is kind of a trash contest. But the thing is,
31:34
Speaker 1: in this realm, even if you're a fan of Jackson
31:38
Speaker 1: at the time, you have to admit that he is
31:43
Speaker 1: he has such personal enmity against his vice president, John C.
31:48
Speaker 1: Calhoun that it is impacting the business of politics. It's
31:53
Speaker 1: messing up both of their jobs in the capital. So
32:00
Speaker 1: the so like he starts saying, he starts saying this
32:04
Speaker 1: other stuff that strikes people sideways. He says, we need
32:08
Speaker 1: to get rid of the electoral college. Uh, we need
32:11
Speaker 1: to get rid of rotation of office and federal government.
32:15
Speaker 1: Uh that I want to make some big changes, all
32:18
Speaker 1: of which seemed to empower me by the way. Um.
32:22
Speaker 1: And so people don't like that because they're saying, Hey,
32:24
Speaker 1: our whole thing is we don't want kings. Even though
32:27
Speaker 1: low key we tried to make George Washington king back
32:30
Speaker 1: in the very beginning. Uh so he is maybe feeling
32:34
Speaker 1: a little too authoritarian for some people. And all all
32:38
Speaker 1: this to say, it leads the National Republicans to nominate
32:42
Speaker 1: Henry Oh Clay uh for president, and they run against
32:50
Speaker 1: him and Clay takes Nell. He absolutely loses because Jackson
32:57
Speaker 1: was unpopular but still more popular than play. You could say, again,
33:09
Speaker 1: most people would have given up the ghost thrown in
33:12
Speaker 1: the proverbial towel at this point, but not Henry Clay.
33:17
Speaker 1: He says, I'm gonna I see a lot of potential here.
33:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take all these people who don't vibe with Jackson,
33:25
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna make a party based on not liking Jackson.
33:32
Speaker 1: And if you build something based entirely on objections to
33:36
Speaker 1: something else without a positive direction or path, then you're
33:39
Speaker 1: kind of setting your up yourself up to fail. I
33:41
Speaker 1: pose it to you, gentlemen. That is the story of
33:44
Speaker 1: the Whig Party. Indeed, yeah, I mean, it certainly is
33:48
Speaker 1: a good tactic to to maybe divide people, but it's
33:52
Speaker 1: not a very good tactic for you know, getting the
33:55
Speaker 1: job done, because when you divide people, then no one
33:57
Speaker 1: can agree on anything, and everything is just kind of
33:59
Speaker 1: based on that divisiveness instead of like, you know, unity
34:02
Speaker 1: and like betterments of our country and the lives of
34:06
Speaker 1: everyday people. So, yeah, the Whigs really had nothing in
34:11
Speaker 1: common outside of their hatred of Jackson. They had no
34:16
Speaker 1: central kind of governing ideology, and they were often divided
34:23
Speaker 1: on these these very you know, kind of broad lines.
34:27
Speaker 1: So the election of eighteen thirty six really threw a
34:31
Speaker 1: huge spotlight on these issues. Um when the party entered
34:36
Speaker 1: its first presidential contest and they ran no less than
34:41
Speaker 1: three candidates from wildly different parts of the country. Clay, however,
34:46
Speaker 1: it was not one of them. Yeah, yeah, this is
34:50
Speaker 1: where Martin van Buren wins, because again there's a lot
34:55
Speaker 1: of kingmaking here. There's a lot of guys being kind
34:57
Speaker 1: of mafioso about this and say this is my chosen
35:01
Speaker 1: you know, success, that this is my boy. He will
35:04
Speaker 1: run the operation when my time is best. And that
35:07
Speaker 1: was that was a ten ten impression of President Jackson
35:12
Speaker 1: talking about Martin Van Buren. No one fact check it.
35:15
Speaker 1: Uh so van Buren wins the presidency. What a day,
35:20
Speaker 1: What a great week that guy is having until the
35:23
Speaker 1: economy just goes into a tailspin. That's the problem with
35:27
Speaker 1: being president, you're also held responsible for a ton of
35:31
Speaker 1: stuff that you could never actually control, so you become
35:36
Speaker 1: the country's number one scapegoat. And there's this depression that ensues. Uh,
35:44
Speaker 1: this chaos looks like an opportunity for the Whig Party,
35:48
Speaker 1: and they're saying, when this eighteen forty election comes up,
35:51
Speaker 1: since everybody is so mad at Van Buren, it's our
35:54
Speaker 1: time to share baby, and Clay thinks, finally all my
35:58
Speaker 1: work will have led to something, and he's wrong because
36:02
Speaker 1: his party nominated another guy, a general named William Henry Harrison.
36:07
Speaker 1: He's a war hero, you know him from Tip of Canoe.
36:10
Speaker 1: And uh. They said they did this because they were
36:14
Speaker 1: kind of like a marketing department when you think about it.
36:17
Speaker 1: They were looking at stuff they thought people would like.
36:21
Speaker 1: And they said, you know, America elected Jackson because he's
36:25
Speaker 1: a military man, so let's find a military guy, not
36:29
Speaker 1: necessarily a politician. And that's when Clay said, Okay, I'm
36:34
Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm gonna keep a stiff upper lip,
36:38
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my chin up. I'm gonna go with
36:40
Speaker 1: the party, and I am also going to promote William
36:45
Speaker 1: Henry Harrison, even though I've always wanted to be president,
36:48
Speaker 1: and I think I would be pretty good about it.
36:50
Speaker 1: And then someone says, Clay, what are you mumbling over there?
36:52
Speaker 1: And he goes, nothing, Go wigs, go Wiggs. There's a
36:56
Speaker 1: There was a really fun band out of Athens, Georgia
36:59
Speaker 1: called the Pigs for a while, Um, and I always
37:03
Speaker 1: enjoyed them, and I thought that was a clever name
37:05
Speaker 1: for a band, because it kind of sounds more like
37:07
Speaker 1: a band than a party. But William Henry Harrison, as
37:10
Speaker 1: you mentioned, he didn't last poor fellow. He had Uh
37:16
Speaker 1: he must have been a frail as a as a daffodil,
37:19
Speaker 1: as as Max likes to affectionately call Ben and I
37:22
Speaker 1: sometimes he made a bit of a long winded speech
37:25
Speaker 1: in the rain, and uh didn't go well for him
37:27
Speaker 1: after that, And Max, to your point, off Mike, this
37:31
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily proof positive of what killed him, but it's
37:36
Speaker 1: definitely something that's that's talked about a lot, and like
37:39
Speaker 1: presidential lore. Oh yeah, it was. Um, let's see. I
37:44
Speaker 1: think the speech itself, according to the transcript, was eight thousand,
37:49
Speaker 1: four hundred and forty five words. This is very long
37:54
Speaker 1: and people have to stand, uh stand there. The whole time.
37:59
Speaker 1: You can't about right. Uh. For comparison, I think the
38:05
Speaker 1: shortest inaugural address ever was George Washington's second address. It
38:10
Speaker 1: was a hundred and thirty five words. It's basically like
38:13
Speaker 1: he came in and said, good game, everybody, you know
38:19
Speaker 1: the US rules. Britain druls, all right, let's get some
38:22
Speaker 1: knog let's knogging up. Basically stinko. You haven't heard that expression.
38:27
Speaker 1: It's the old one, like getting stinko, let's getting really drunk.
38:31
Speaker 1: I guess, oh, I've heard blotto as blotto is good.
38:33
Speaker 1: Stinko is a good one. You hear it. If you
38:35
Speaker 1: watch any like noir movies, you'll learn you'll have a
38:38
Speaker 1: great new uh fifties vocabulary for getting really wasted. Oh. Also,
38:44
Speaker 1: Harrison was the weather was like forty eight degrees fahrenheit.
38:49
Speaker 1: Harrison wasn't wearing the kind of what clothing you would wear.
38:52
Speaker 1: He didn't have an overcode or hatter gloves. Uh. And
38:56
Speaker 1: then he look, yeah, I'm not saying he deserved to die,
39:01
Speaker 1: but you made me hang out in the rain like that,
39:04
Speaker 1: listening to you Babylon and on. You're not my favorite person.
39:08
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that, right. You know, it's this is
39:12
Speaker 1: why we should have a TV show where we do
39:16
Speaker 1: reproductions of stuff, or at least guests on drunk history anyhow.
39:20
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like, like Max said, it's not conclusively
39:25
Speaker 1: proven that his speech right before he caught a cold
39:30
Speaker 1: lead to his death, but um, but it feels weird. Anyway.
39:36
Speaker 1: He got sick like three weeks after he made that speech,
39:39
Speaker 1: so it might have just been his habit of walking
39:42
Speaker 1: out and maybe he was doing a bunch of off
39:45
Speaker 1: the book speeches. It just random people in bad weather,
39:48
Speaker 1: maybe just night walks where he just was talking to himself.
39:52
Speaker 1: They're nice, my friend, they're not. I don't know. Just
39:57
Speaker 1: night walks can be a danger this thing if you're
40:00
Speaker 1: not dressed appropriately. That's a very good point. And we
40:04
Speaker 1: I think we both love. We both love a good
40:06
Speaker 1: night walk, oh man. And we can never tell this
40:09
Speaker 1: story of that one night walk in New York recently.
40:14
Speaker 1: We can tell, we can hint, we can hit show
40:18
Speaker 1: me the money, there, we go. There it is. That's
40:21
Speaker 1: or don't. That's entirely up to you. That's perfect. Yeah,
40:24
Speaker 1: poetry toll. So all right, So immediately after Harrison dies,
40:31
Speaker 1: you know you've got the the secession right, the changing
40:36
Speaker 1: of the guard, and the peaceful passage of power transfer power.
40:39
Speaker 1: So John No, keep it. I always like that one.
40:46
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And uh, this makes John Tyler the president.
40:53
Speaker 1: John Tyler was never really intended to be the president
40:56
Speaker 1: by the Whig Party. He was put up there as
41:00
Speaker 1: a demographic play. People like the part of the country
41:04
Speaker 1: he was from. You know, there's there's a lot of
41:07
Speaker 1: that kind of horse trading in politics in general, right, So, uh,
41:13
Speaker 1: it became obvious that he was he was like a
41:18
Speaker 1: why no, a Whig in name only because he was
41:23
Speaker 1: only a Wig because he's beefed up with President Jackson.
41:29
Speaker 1: He didn't agree with any other thing that the Whig
41:32
Speaker 1: stood for, like none of it, and so eventually they
41:35
Speaker 1: kicked him out of the party. That's how unpopular or
41:38
Speaker 1: president he was. Eventually, the Whig Party itself was kind
41:43
Speaker 1: of on the down slope. And Henry Clay resigned from
41:48
Speaker 1: the Senate and said, you know, you know why I resigned, right,
41:53
Speaker 1: can you guess as if we don't have the same
41:56
Speaker 1: notes again, guess ben, But I do know, And I
41:59
Speaker 1: think it was probably a reasonable bet that he he
42:04
Speaker 1: wanted to to spend his time elsewhere. Uh, preparing to
42:08
Speaker 1: once again run for president in eight I mean, come
42:14
Speaker 1: on like it. I respect, you know, I respect the determination,
42:19
Speaker 1: the doggedness and the ambition again, but at some point,
42:22
Speaker 1: don't you have to ask yourself? Hey, am I being
42:26
Speaker 1: like someone who gambles too much? Am I? Am? I
42:30
Speaker 1: just continually telling myself that this pool of the slots
42:33
Speaker 1: will be the one that makes me a millionaire? Right,
42:38
Speaker 1: I mean, tell yourself whatever you want. Uh, if you've
42:42
Speaker 1: got the stamina and the perhaps lack of self awareness
42:46
Speaker 1: to keep pushing and pushing and pushing like this, I
42:49
Speaker 1: guess more power to you. But history is gonna remember
42:53
Speaker 1: you this way. You're gonna be in one of these podcasts.
42:56
Speaker 1: So you know, wow, that's just gonna happen for you.
43:00
Speaker 1: Well that you know, we're a nice show. We're nice
43:02
Speaker 1: to people. Uh, we're fair, We're fair. How about that?
43:09
Speaker 1: That's true? That's so this is given the age the
43:15
Speaker 1: Clay is at this time in eighteen forty four, he's
43:17
Speaker 1: sixty seven years old. So if we're being realistic about it,
43:21
Speaker 1: this is probably gonna be one of the last, if
43:25
Speaker 1: not his last, chance to become president. And he finally
43:31
Speaker 1: has earned enough goodwill for the Whig Party to support him,
43:35
Speaker 1: but he comes out looking bad in a couple of
43:40
Speaker 1: great debates of the time, the issue of annexing Texas,
43:43
Speaker 1: what that means for the horrific institution of slavery. This
43:47
Speaker 1: is uh, the most divisive political issue of of the
43:52
Speaker 1: day for for the you know, for the politician class
43:56
Speaker 1: and the Democratic nominee. A guy named James A Polk
44:00
Speaker 1: from Tennessee says, hey, manifest Destiny, come on, let's get
44:07
Speaker 1: big us baby, uh. And people dig that. They're like, yeah, hey,
44:14
Speaker 1: you know what, James is right, we are great. We're
44:18
Speaker 1: just you know, we are better than people, is the thing,
44:21
Speaker 1: and we're going to vote for the guy who understands that. Also,
44:24
Speaker 1: it is funny, like, you know how the notion of
44:27
Speaker 1: manifest destiny is a conquering notion right at at at best.
44:35
Speaker 1: And it's very funny how quickly as a nation we
44:39
Speaker 1: start to resemble our conquering uh former you know, overlords.
44:46
Speaker 1: Yeah and an old bin old Britain. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
44:49
Speaker 1: History moves in cycles, right, and history is not exactly
44:54
Speaker 1: a study and innovation as much as we would like
44:57
Speaker 1: it to be. Manifest destiny. Uh came about in eighteen
45:02
Speaker 1: that's when the phrase was coined, and it is very
45:05
Speaker 1: much a religious ideology. One there is a God and
45:09
Speaker 1: to that God is crazy. Pro United States. Forget all
45:13
Speaker 1: the other problems of the world, physics, chemistry, and the universe.
45:17
Speaker 1: There is a God and the God and God's main thing,
45:21
Speaker 1: whether or not you've read the book, is that this
45:24
Speaker 1: one country, the US, should expand as much as possible.
45:29
Speaker 1: I gotta say, man, I was hoping you're just gonna
45:31
Speaker 1: stop it. There is a God and that God is crazy.
45:35
Speaker 1: That God is, That God is nuts. All the speeches
45:39
Speaker 1: are very um Werner Herzog from politicians at that time.
45:44
Speaker 1: So at this point Clay has lost He's nearing his seventies.
45:52
Speaker 1: He's this is not a period in history where a
45:55
Speaker 1: seventy year old president would be a common thing and
46:00
Speaker 1: lives long pack than either you R. Yes, I mean
46:03
Speaker 1: that's the case. It's it's cold to admit it, but
46:05
Speaker 1: it's true. So what does Clay do Well? One would
46:09
Speaker 1: think he did do the old Homer Simpson backing into
46:11
Speaker 1: the bushes gif Jeff Jeff um. He thought about that,
46:17
Speaker 1: but he did end up returning to the Senate to
46:21
Speaker 1: assist in what was known as the Compromise of eighteen fifty.
46:25
Speaker 1: He he was able to help kind of pull this
46:28
Speaker 1: thing out of the toilet, was having some issues, and
46:31
Speaker 1: then he was you know, as a as a as
46:33
Speaker 1: a senior literally, um, you know, as senator, was able
46:37
Speaker 1: to kind of help salvage the deal. But this would
46:40
Speaker 1: be the last thing that he did in government or
46:43
Speaker 1: in in life. Perhaps he passed away shortly thereafter from
46:47
Speaker 1: tuberculosis in June of eighteen fifty two. And I think
46:52
Speaker 1: he was the first American to lay in state in
46:57
Speaker 1: the Capitol Rotunda before even abra Am Lincoln. Yeah, Abraham
47:02
Speaker 1: Lincoln twelve years later becomes the second American to lay
47:06
Speaker 1: in state in the rotunda. And as a as a
47:10
Speaker 1: result of this, you know, we're giving him a hard
47:12
Speaker 1: time a little bit. But uh, Henry Clay had a
47:15
Speaker 1: long and storied career. That's why a lot of historians
47:18
Speaker 1: will tell you even today he is the most powerful
47:22
Speaker 1: and important American to have never become president. And look,
47:28
Speaker 1: we peppered this story obviously with some accomplishments that he
47:31
Speaker 1: did achieve, and he clearly was a competent statesman, but
47:37
Speaker 1: he just didn't have the range. He shouldn't have the range.
47:40
Speaker 1: And a lot of it is timing and luck, you know,
47:43
Speaker 1: an opportunity, so you could be an amazing politician sincere one. Uh,
47:51
Speaker 1: and different circumstances beyond your control could just make it
47:55
Speaker 1: such that political party doesn't see you as a viable candidate.
47:59
Speaker 1: That happens a lot, by the way, in US history
48:02
Speaker 1: and and in the history of democracies across the planet.
48:06
Speaker 1: We got to two people today. We went pretty in
48:10
Speaker 1: depth on Pinkney and Clay, but there's much more to
48:15
Speaker 1: the story. As we said, we're gonna make this a
48:17
Speaker 1: series that pops up every now and then when you
48:20
Speaker 1: least expected. Um, maybe when we least expected. But in
48:25
Speaker 1: the meantime, Uh, we hope you enjoyed this look at
48:29
Speaker 1: and often ignored but very important part of US history.
48:35
Speaker 1: And hey, if you want to suggest to us another
48:37
Speaker 1: anthology style, uh, you know, collection of of of genres
48:43
Speaker 1: of stories. Uh, you can hit us up on the internet. Specifically,
48:46
Speaker 1: you can hit us up individually if you wish. I
48:49
Speaker 1: am on Instagram at how now Noel Brown, Mr Boland?
48:52
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Oh? What a time to
48:56
Speaker 1: be alive? Folks and uh in users of Instagram, you
49:01
Speaker 1: can find me calling myself Appen Bollan in a burst
49:03
Speaker 1: of creativity bow l I N. On Instagram, you can
49:06
Speaker 1: also head over to Twitter. If you're more inclined to
49:10
Speaker 1: tweet and so on, you can find me Appen Bolan
49:14
Speaker 1: hs W and while you were on Twitter, pro tip,
49:18
Speaker 1: don't follow me and then immediately say while I'm done,
49:22
Speaker 1: I've been super productive today. No, stay on Twitter and
49:25
Speaker 1: check out our pals. Super producer Max Williams. Yes, you
49:29
Speaker 1: can find me at AHL Underscore, Max Williams. That's where
49:32
Speaker 1: I'll be. Thanks as always to you, Super producer Max,
49:37
Speaker 1: and research associate for this episode thinks of course to
49:42
Speaker 1: uh Jonathan Jonathan stricklet uh who what you call him?
49:47
Speaker 1: In the previous episode called him a human leaf blower?
49:51
Speaker 1: Are our leafblowers? Yes? Yeah, Clay right, Yes, he doesn't
49:57
Speaker 1: give up, although we haven't heard for him in a while,
49:59
Speaker 1: but I think thank good might change. Oh boy, you
50:04
Speaker 1: know I actually I gotta got a summoning bell. Oh no,
50:08
Speaker 1: that's just me testing the bell. Okay, the don't that's
50:11
Speaker 1: not that wasn't that was just practice springs. Also beetlejuice rules,
50:14
Speaker 1: so we're not going to say his full name anymore
50:16
Speaker 1: right now, so in lieu of summonings. Thanks also to
50:21
Speaker 1: Chris Frosty otis Eve's Jeff Coat. Man, I'm such a
50:25
Speaker 1: fan of all our colleagues. No, sometimes I just want
50:28
Speaker 1: to thank people who aren't even associated with with the show,
50:33
Speaker 1: or just make up names, or just make up names,
50:35
Speaker 1: you know. Thanks to Max Powers, astronaut with a secret
50:38
Speaker 1: fig supporter. Yeah, thanks to Cuba Gooding Jr. He likes
50:42
Speaker 1: the show. Thanks to Cuba. Yeah, and uh and no.
50:46
Speaker 1: Most importantly, man, thanks for our listeners and thanks to
50:49
Speaker 1: you he as well. We'll see you next time. Folks.
50:58
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart rate, you visit the
51:00
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen
51:03
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.