Latest / Journey to the Fringe / Before the Spoons Bent - Uri Geller part 1 of 3

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Before the Spoons Bent - Uri Geller part 1 of 3 · Journey to the Fringe

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
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us on a Journey to the Fringe. Love that for
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us. We are your podcast hosts who really don't
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have a physical form that you're going to be
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intaking, which is why we can tell you all about
0:29
that, Taylor and Chelsea. I'm really glad we
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finally passed that testing. I know. We actually
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had to make a few cutbacks on our end to get
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to that level. Let's not worry about the lead
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that actually came up on it. Don't worry about
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it. Don't think about it. It's fine. That's how
0:44
environmental impact works. If you don't think
0:47
about it or if it's inconvenient for profit,
0:49
it doesn't actually do anything bad. Exactly.
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If that's one thing that we've learned this week.
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We're here today doing one of those things that
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we probably should have done many, many years
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ago when we started this podcast. And that is
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going over somebody who is fundamental, not necessarily
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in like anything we specifically talk about,
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but within the fringe community. And that is
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a man by the name of Uri Geller. Uri Geller,
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who has come up on an episode or two already.
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Yeah, he's come up on at least two episodes that
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I can think of off the top of my head, if not
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more. We're finally doing it. He sits in a weird
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fringe category that doesn't quite come up perfectly
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with anything we really talk about, other than
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specific topics and people. But he's very well
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known, not just in paranormal and fringe communities,
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but world renowned. Yeah, I think he's been on
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a lot of like talk shows and stuff like that.
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He's probably a little bit more mainstream than
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people we usually talk about. Yeah, it's gonna
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be I think a three -part look at him. First part's
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gonna be looking at basically his start to where
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he starts to get famous. From there we're gonna
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go from where he is famous to what happens for
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the rest of his career. And then we're gonna
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look at a few other things on the third part
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outside of those. That's fun. Just to keep it
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vague because there's a lot of twists and turns
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we're gonna have. to go through. Don't spoil
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it for me yet. I'm just excited to hear how he
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gets famous. Okay, and I'm just curious, when
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you hear the name Uri Geller, or Yuri Geller,
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what comes to mind for you? His spoons bending,
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watches stop and working, first and foremost,
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and men who stare at goats, right? Yeah, Project
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Stargate, right? Or Stargate Project. There's
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a lot of things I learned that surprised me.
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I'm gonna really enjoy seeing where he falls
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in the asshole ranking at the end of the year.
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Who knows? Maybe he's a nice guy. And... I feel
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like you know. We just owe him an apology for
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saying things like that. I know, but you guys
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don't at this point. I'm soon to know. There's
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a bunch of places I had to take from for this
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episode. Yuri Geller has a website. I took some
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information from there. Wikipedia is always a
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great source. Yeah, it is. And there's just a
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ton of stuff written about him in the Times of
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Israel, Jerusalem Post, and many just different
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news articles where I pulled from. But for the
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most part, a lot of the stuff's gonna come from
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him himself or Wikipedia. If I've learned everything,
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it's always he himself is a good source. Yes,
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Uri Self. Uri Geller was born in Israel on December
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20th, 1946. His parents were Hungarian and Austrian
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descent. This part comes directly from his website
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and claims he's a distantly related relative
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to Sigmund Freud on his mother's side. So sometimes
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he'll call himself Uri Geller Freud or Uri Freud
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Geller. but like not actually proven. He might
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be. I didn't look that far into it just because
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I don't understand he's a psychic. Why does it
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matter if you're related to Sigmund Freud? It's
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true, a psychologist. So I just didn't find it
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that important to get to the lowest of it And
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also once we get going you're gonna realize there
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are too many stories to look into to stop it
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every single Like this next sentence at the age
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of four He had a mysterious encounter with a
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sphere of light while in a garden near his house
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a retired Israeli Air Force officer who was an
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eyewitness to this encounter Validated this mystifying
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event decades later. No, that's it. That's all
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he says there is way more about that out there
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the guy just says it happened yeah he's like
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oh yeah I remember seeing this little kid see
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it and this was like 30 years after the event.
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That's fucking weird. Okay. He seems to try to
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place that as like where his powers came from,
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but like he's got like five different stories
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of where his powers came from. That's the one
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in his bio though, so that's the one he's sticking
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to for now. I do seem to remember this aspect
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of Irugiela from wherever I've heard about him
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before. He first became aware of his unusual
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powers when he was about five. One day, during
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a meal, his spoon curled up in his hand and broke.
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Although he had applied no physical pressure
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to it. His parents were somewhat shocked, and
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Rory did not mention the incident to anyone else
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at the time. He developed these powers in school
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by demonstrating them to pupils, which directly
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contradicts that last sentence, but anyhow his
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mother thought he inherited this from Sigmund
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Freud. You ever hear that about cigarettes, right?
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Yeah, how these spoons just curled up. Yeah,
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it's like the number one thing people know about.
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And sometimes a cigar is just a bending spoon
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that you cannot control in any way. If there's
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one thing that I learned in college, it was that.
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When he was 11, he went to live in Cyprus, where
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he remained until he was 17. And this is outside
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of both Wikipedia and his own bio. He claims
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that this house also doubled as a safe house
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for Massad, so he got like spy connections during
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this time. Whether or not we can verify that,
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like I said, all these stories, there's just
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so many of them that you can't look into every
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single one of them. Did you check with Mossad?
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I put an email out and now we're on a list. That's
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all they said. Hopefully we'll get an email.
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No, that's what they said. They responded, we're
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on a list. Okay, good. We've got one email now.
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He then returned to Israel, served as a paratrooper
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in the Israeli army and fought in the Six Day
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War of 1967 during which he was wounded in action.
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From 1968 to 69, Uri worked as a model being
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photographed for many different ad campaigns
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and in 1969 he began to demonstrate his powers
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of telepathy and psychokinesis to small audiences.
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By the end of 1971 he was a household name throughout
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Israel thanks to his numerous stage appearances.
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He was given a huge boost by then Prime Minister
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Golda Mir who when asked on a national radio
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program what she predicted for the future of
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Israel she replied don't ask me ask Uri Geller.
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His performance included his trademark spoon
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bending describing hidden drawings and making
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watches stop or run faster. Geller said he performed
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these feats through willpower and the strength
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of his mind alone. His apparent ability to bend
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metal objects during his television appearances
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came to be known as the Geller Effect and made
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him a celebrity. That's where he starts to get
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big in Israel, and for a second here we have
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to adjust what we're looking at with the story.
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away from Uri Geller and towards a man by the
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name of Andrija Poricic. Poric, it's a hard name
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to say, but he's an American medical doctor.
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He lives 1918 to 1995. He's an inventor, doctor,
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researcher, and he's really big into the UFO
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paranormal psychic community. He made a ton of
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money off of basically creating hearing aid technology.
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So he devoted his life to studying psychic phenomenon,
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and he identified gifted individuals, which included
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people who I haven't looked into at this point,
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but probably are future episodes, Eileen Garrett,
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Peter Herkos, and the Brazilian psychic surgeon,
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Eriko. As well as looking into UFOs and extraterrestrials,
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psychedelic mushrooms, and altered states, in
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1971 he stumbled across Uri Geller. So Puharich
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heard from inventor Itzjak Bentov that a young
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Israeli performer was doing things that didn't
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look like stage magic. Buharach was intrigued
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and he flew to Israel to meet Uri Geller and
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he became instantly convinced that Geller's abilities
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were real, and possibly extraterrestrial in origin,
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which is also why he upplays that orb story from
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when he was four. In Puharich's book, Uri, 1974,
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he describes his belief that Geller was in contact
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with a non -human intelligence called Spectra.
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This framing is what permanently welds Geller
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to UFO lore, but also keeps him separate. Puharich
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arranges Geller to basically move to the US in
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1973, and he puts him in touch with the Stanford
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Research Institute, SRI, and Edgar Mitchell.
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of Apollo 14 and previous asshole lore. Through
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Puharich, he secures experiments at the Stanford
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Research Institute with physicists Hal Puthoff
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and Russell Targ on Uri Geller, and this positions
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Geller as a subject of interest for US intelligence
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agencies. And basically, this guy sets him up
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for everything that we remember him for. This
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is basically putting him at the forefront where
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he's going to go on his media campaign as well
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as be researched by actual scientists who think
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that ESP is a real thing. Like the Men Who Stare
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at Goats thing, right? Exactly. Which we did
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a full episode of. And that's why, Chelsea, you
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think it's interlocked, these two, Uri Geller
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and Men Who Stare at Goats or Stargate, correct?
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Interlocked as in... They're inseparable, like
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he is a key fundamental part of Project Stargate.
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He's in it? I think that's... good enough. Anyhow,
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the first thing he does when he gets to the US,
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he does some like off the books experiments and
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talking to the scientist SSRI, but the first
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thing he gets booked on is Johnny Carson. Right,
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yeah. And he goes and does the Johnny Carson
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show and I'm gonna share my screen with you Chelsea
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so you can see what happens here. Okay, this
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is before Project Stargate or whatever. This
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is before Project Stargate, this is even before
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any scientific papers are written about him.
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which is going to happen at a certain point it's
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just that hasn't happened yet and you we're gonna
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watch this i'm gonna describe it once you watch
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it so that everybody can kind of know what's
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going on here i prefer that they don't Basically
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what happens here is he thought he was on here
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for an interview, is what he says, but Johnny
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Carson has a table set up of all these different
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experiments that he says he's able to perform.
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One is that they have ten vials of water that
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are in metals so that you can't tell which one
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has water in it, only one does and he's able
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to identify it. They have stopwatches there so
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you can stop time, they have spoons that he can
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bend, they have envelopes of things that people
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on the cast have drawn. guess what they are and
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they just said like pick whatever you want yeah
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so he takes a shot at guessing which one of these
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has water in it so he does this for a while and
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then he's like no I can't do it just not feeling
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it today Johnny just not feeling it and then
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he's like okay I'll move on to the spoon fair
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enough Also, I love just like offhandedly Johnny
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Carson smoking like non -stop this whole episode.
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Look at the carpet, too Yeah, so he makes somebody
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else hold a spoon and then he starts rubbing
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the spoon and then he's like Oh, oh look at that.
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It's bent. I bent it. I Was expecting Johnny
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Carson to light another cigarette with that cigarette
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he just went out. Yeah That's amazing what you're
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allowed to get away with He doesn't want to do
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anything That's more or less the show Chelsea
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gave him a bunch of experiments where he wasn't
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able to bring anything They just provided it
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and it goes completely flat and he's like, no
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you don't believe in me. So I can't do it. You
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can't make me do it on the spot because I only
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got 20 minutes. Plus I didn't bring these spoons,
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so this is just not feeling right. How do I know
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you didn't rig them so they can't? These are
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unbending spoons. These are unbendable spoons,
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of course. So to give people an idea of what
12:06
we just saw, on August 1st, 1973, Geller appears
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on The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson. James
12:12
Randi says that Johnny had been a magician himself
12:15
and was skeptical. We're going to learn about
12:16
James Randi in the second part of this three
12:18
-part series. He was skeptical of Geller's claimed
12:21
paranormal power, so before the date of taping,
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Randy was asked to help prevent any trickery.
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Accordingly, the show's staff repaired its own
12:28
props without informing Geller and did not let
12:30
Geller or his staff anywhere near the props.
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When Geller joins Carson on stage, he appears
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surprised that he was not going to be interviewed,
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but instead was expected to display his abilities
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using the provided articles. Geller's point says,
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and you heard this, this scares me. And as you
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know, I told your people what to bring. and I'm
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surprised because before this program your producers
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came and he read me at least 40 questions you
12:53
were going to ask me." Geller was unable to display
12:56
any paranormal abilities, saying, I don't feel
12:58
strong, and expresses his displeasure at feeling
13:01
he was being pressed to perform by Carson. And
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according to Adam Higginbotham, the result was
13:06
a legendary emulation, which Geller offered up
13:09
flustered excuses to his host, as his abilities
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failed him again and again. Quote, I sat there
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for 22 minutes humiliated, end quote Geller told
13:16
me. When I spoke to him in September, Quote,
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I went back to my hotel devastated. I was about
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to pack up the next day and go back to Tel Aviv.
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I thought that's it. I'm destroyed. End quote.
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This appearance on this tonight show with Carson
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and Randy had orchestrated to debunk Geller's
13:29
claimed abilities backfired according to Kickin'
13:32
Bottom. To Geller's astonishment, he was immediately
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booked on the Merv Griffin show and he was on
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his way to becoming a paranormal superstar. That's
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crazy. Quote, the Johnny Carson show made Yuri
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Geller. End quote. Geller said, to an enthusiastically
13:44
trusting public his failure only made his gifts
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more real if he were performing magic trips they
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would surely work every time so like just failed
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up with it interesting and then of course after
13:56
that is the famed Stanford Research Institute
13:59
experiments on Uri Geller I should say I do say
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I do apologize interchangeably Uri Geller or
14:05
Uri Geller it is he will always say worry Geller
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but he always says Western people call him Uri
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Geller and that's just like what they do so I'm
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gonna fall back to that sometimes too by accident
14:15
because it feels more natural, but his name is
14:17
technically properly said Uri Geller. So Hal
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Puthoff and Russell Targ. Do this experiment
14:24
on him, and here it is. SRI performs an eight
14:26
-day experiment on him in August of 1973 between
14:29
August 4th and 11th. This was designed to test
14:32
Rory Geller's paranormal perception using picture
14:34
drawing tasks under controlled conditions. Geller
14:37
was usually placed in a locked, acoustically
14:40
and electrically shielded room, while Target
14:42
drawings were created elsewhere, sometimes in
14:44
another building, sometimes on the East Coast,
14:46
sometimes on a computer screen. The authors,
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Putoff and Targ, present this series as evidence
14:51
that Geller demonstrated Okay, that was going
15:19
to be my next question. August 4th, Saturday.
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Geller is locked in a shielded room. Targets
15:25
are chosen by randomly opening a dictionary and
15:27
drawing the first drawable, drawboard. Target
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1 found Fuse, drawn as a firecracker. Geller
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says he sees a cylinder with noise coming out
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of it and draws a drum and cylindrical shape.
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Target 2 finds Bunch, draws a bunch of grapes.
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Geller reports drops of water and purple circles
15:44
and then draws a bunch of grapes. Both Target
15:46
and Geller's drawings have 24 grapes. The authors
15:49
emphasize that they found no sensory leakage
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in the shielded room protocol. Quote. In our
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detailed examination of the shielded room and
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the protocol used in these experiments, no sensory
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leakage has been found, nor has any defect in
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the protocol been brought to our attention. Day
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2, August 5th, Sunday. Geller is again in the
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shielded room, target drawn in an office half
16:09
a mile away. Target 1. Outland of a man that
16:12
evolves into a devil with a trident. Geller produces
16:15
several drawings. Moses. Tablets. An apple with
16:18
a worm and snakes and a composite of the Ten
16:20
Commandments. God and a trident. He does draw
16:23
the trident, but not the figure. Target 2. A
16:26
simplified solar system. No orbit lines. Geller's
16:29
immediate reaction is space. His drawing resembles
16:32
the target's and also omits orbit lines. From
16:41
this, it seems clear that Geller does not simply
16:44
copy lines from the target picture, but rather
16:46
he does perform some mental processing on them
16:49
before drawing them himself. August 6th, Monday,
16:53
a picture is drawn by a scientist outside the
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usual group and locked in the shielded room before
16:57
Geller arrives. Geller is then led to the room
17:00
and asked to reproduce the picture from inside.
17:03
He draws several images, rejects them all, and
17:06
says he gets no clear impression. Target draws
17:08
a rabbit. Port states, he drew a of pictures,
17:11
all of which he rejected as not being applicable.
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He said that he got no clear impression and passed.
17:15
The target was a rabbit and nothing Geller drew
17:18
in any way resembled a rabbit. Crucially, the
17:20
author adds that the picture was drawn by a scientist
17:22
Geller is not fond of, and that Geller guessed
17:26
this at the outset and later felt vindicated
17:28
when he learned he was right. August 7th, Tuesday.
17:35
Two target pictures attempted while Geller is
17:37
in the shielded room and hooked up to EEG. Targets.
17:40
They drew a tree in an envelope. De Geller. Experiences
17:44
difficulty. Produced no matching drawings and
17:46
passed again. Report notes. Quote. He experiences
17:49
difficulty. Did not make a drawing that corresponded
17:51
to either drawing and then passed. End quote.
17:53
And then key lines again. Quote. The same skeptical
17:56
experimenter who drew the rabbit was the EEG
17:59
operator on this second unsuccessful day. End
18:02
quote. Wednesday, August 8th. Three targets this
18:07
time. Geller feels unsure and passes on the first
18:10
drawing. He says it might be a horse, but the
18:13
target drew a camel. Geller draws for the second
18:15
target a curved line with squares underneath.
18:19
This says he doesn't know what it is and passes.
18:21
It was the Golden Gate Bridge. And Geller quickly
18:23
says he sees a flying swan for the third target
18:25
over a hill. Draws a bird and is confident the
18:28
target is flying as a flying seagull. His drawing
18:30
is judged correct. Then comes the important part
18:33
here. Quote, in these experiments deducted with
18:36
this shielded room, six days' work was done.
18:39
Good results were obtained on the four days where
18:41
there was no openly skeptical observer, except
18:45
the experimenter whom Geller had learned to accept.
18:48
End quote. So, of the first six days, there's
18:52
what they deem four good days, unless of course
18:54
somebody who's skeptical in any way of Yuri Geller
18:57
is present, in which case they fail completely.
18:59
It continued from there. August 9th, Thursday
19:02
experiment moves to a different shielded room
19:04
near the computer facilities. Target is drawn
19:05
on a computer graphics screen. It's a kite. Geller
19:07
in the shielded room asks via intermediaries
19:10
whether the target is a geometric or an object.
19:12
He first draws a square with a diagonal and then
19:15
some triangular airplanes and then passes. The
19:17
author considers his first drawing a good representation
19:19
of the target. Friday, August 10th. Again, two
19:22
computers store targets. First one's a church.
19:25
Picture drawn and stored in computer memory.
19:27
No visible trace remains. Geller's attempts share
19:29
some elements common, but he doesn't identify
19:31
it as a church and passes. Second one is an arrow
19:35
through the heart. Target is stored with the
19:36
TV intensity off, so it's invisible in the lit
19:40
room, which I don't quite understand what that
19:43
means. Geller immediately draws an arrow under
19:45
a rounded brick and then an arrow inside a suitcase.
19:48
And the author says, quote, we consider the arrow
19:50
in the su - case similar to the target, which
19:51
was an arrow through a heart." End quote. And
19:53
I think we can skip just to the conclusion of
19:55
the report here, Chelsea. As a result of Geller's
20:00
success in the experimental period, we consider
20:02
that he has demonstrated his paranormal perceptual
20:05
ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner.
20:08
They frame the week as a success overall and
20:10
emphasize the hits and treated the failures as
20:13
either unsuitable targets, emotional issues,
20:17
or experimental complications. And they're very
20:19
critical. They even say at this point good results
20:22
were obtained on the days where there was only
20:24
no openly skeptical observers present. Every
20:28
day that they have bad things happen, they're
20:30
like, yep, skeptical person's there, so it's
20:32
just not pro - that's not good. I feel like that's
20:35
not the answer though, so is there more to -
20:37
What's going on here? That's what Stanford Research
20:42
Institute's conclusion is, is that he has psychic
20:45
powers unless somebody who's skeptical is anywhere
20:48
near him. I don't know, I'm just so skeptical
20:50
of Uri Geller. I just - Oh, don't worry, we're
20:53
gonna learn more about what happens from there.
20:55
Yeah, I just - the odds of getting something,
20:57
I'm just wondering what the odds are of rightfully
21:02
guessing something. Like, if I was in a room
21:04
for eight days - Not only that, Chelsea, from
21:07
me describing those days, did It did not seem
21:09
like he was having open conversations with the
21:12
scientists who believed him. Now that you say
21:15
that. If you're somebody who's able to glean
21:17
information easily from conversation with people
21:21
who especially believe you have powers, it would
21:23
be very easy. That's true, as if you're a grifter
21:26
for a career. And they even said at one point
21:29
he asked whether or not it was geometrical or
21:31
objects for the kite and then started drawing
21:34
a kite and then was like, no, that's not it.
21:36
okay so i don't know why i just glossed over
21:40
that while i was listening to that because i'm
21:42
thinking there has to be something logical to
21:45
what the hell is going on here and don't worry
21:47
chelsea we'll get to that next episode But the
21:51
SRI study is so fundamental that in the project
21:54
Stargate, which started in 1970, the United States
21:57
intelligence sources believe that the Soviet
21:59
Union was spending 60 million rubles annually
22:01
on psychotronic research. In response, the claims
22:04
that the Soviet program had produced results,
22:06
the CIA initiated funding for a new program known
22:09
as Scan8, scanned by coordinate in the same year.
22:12
Remote viewing research began in 1972 at SRI
22:15
in Menlo Park, California, and proponents, which
22:18
included Russell Targ and Hal Puth, of the research
22:20
said that a minimum accuracy of 65 % required
22:23
by the clients was often exceeded in the later
22:26
experiments. Targon put up began testing for
22:29
psychics for SRI in 1972, and this included this
22:32
experiment on Ori Geller. This apparently successful
22:36
result garnered interest from the US Department
22:39
of Defense. And because it was so interesting
22:42
to the Department of Defense, they brought in
22:44
a guy by the name of Ray Hyman, professor of
22:46
psychology at the University of Oregon. They
22:48
said, hey, Can you look at this to make sure
22:50
everything's above board? Uh huh. He was specifically
22:53
asked to evaluate Uri Geller. And that's where
22:56
I'm gonna end this episode. Somehow he seems
22:59
to be failing up with sheer coincidence and I
23:03
don't know skeptics be damned because the skeptics
23:06
are the thing that stop him. This is like I I
23:10
don't even know okay first of all what a cliffhanger
23:13
to leave this on and second of all I wish I had
23:17
this talent. What a talent to have! Yeah, the
23:20
talented bullshit people. Sorry, sorry to Ben
23:23
Spoonz. To Ben Spoonz. Well, I will say, I don't
23:27
know if this is the place to put it, but I'm
23:29
going to say it before I forget it. When he's
23:32
been on Coast to Coast AM, people have reported
23:35
watches stopping while he's talking on the radio
23:39
in various places where they're just listening
23:42
to him on the radio or old watches start going.
23:46
And so George would always give or art George
23:49
one of them That's actually a great comment to
23:52
make because I do think it's gonna come up in
23:54
the next episode something along those lines
23:57
So I want you to keep it in mind as we're going
23:59
forward. I'm gonna try I really I literally just
24:01
said I have to say it now before I forget it
24:04
Because yeah, I think there's almost something
24:07
directly quotable that happens in the next episode.
24:09
That's very similar to that. Okay, I just remembered
24:13
but for now I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea.
24:17
We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank you all for
24:19
listening and we'll see you next week. Bye. Thank
24:23
you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. If
24:26
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24:57
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25:00
episode.