Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Examining the Ron LeFlore story w/ biographer Adam Henig

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Examining the Ron LeFlore story w/ biographer Adam Henig · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. That's Roight Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieran Steckley,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and I got with me a couple of scribes, Cody Stavenhagen,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you guys know, and joining us Adam henneg author of
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Baseball's Outcast, the Story of Ron Lafleur. So we are
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: truly honored for you to join us today. Adam, how's
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it going.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: It's going good. Thank you for having me.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: All right, well, let's dive right in here and I'll
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: just tell the audience right now. We're gonna cover a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: variety of different topics because I think this is fascinating.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: There's so many different angles here, but I guess maybe
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the best place to start is the simplest. Why we're
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: on the floor. Why now, you know.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I growing up, I was a big baseball fan. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not old enough to remember Ron playing, but when
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I was younger, I would go to the children's section
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: and only look for books at the library, and only
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: look for books that were about sports, and particularly baseball.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And at that time, you know, the big players in
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: my day were like Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, jose Canseco,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and so I had read all those books and then
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I came across this book about Ron laflor and it
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: was basically a children's version of his autobiography, and for
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, it stuck with me. I mean, his upbringing
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: was just so unique, having been essentially recruited out of prison,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: which is just unheard of them, especially now, and it
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: just like I said, it stayed with me. And years
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: had gone by, and had written a few books, and
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I was looking for a new topic to write about,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: and I was just curious when it happened to Ron Lafloor,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: and I saw that he was still around, and I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: gave him a call. I was able to contact him
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: through a third party, and I asked him, you know,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: would it be okay if I interview you for a biography?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And so it's it's different than him writing a book.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't a collaboration, It wasn't formally authorized. He
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: hadn't seen the book in its entirety yet, He's only
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: seen the passages where I quoted him. But Ron was
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: was very cooperative and was very honest in the struggles
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that he's had to deal with before baseball, during baseball,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and his post playing career.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean it's fascinating that like all these
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: years have gone by and people like, you know, you
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: say you weren't old enough to watch him, obviously, Cody
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: and I not old enough to watch him. But the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: law exists. The law always exists of Ron's life and
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: you know, baseball career, and we'll talk about the baseball
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: baseball aspect of it too. But I am I am
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: curious how does he view his story? Like a lot
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: of people talk about Ron Lafloor, People have played Ron
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Lafloor in a movie, But how does Ron Lafloor feel
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: about like kind of being a baseball immortal in a way,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: but also like with some of the I don't want
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to say baggage, but like part of the story is
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: not so in you know, not so what's the word
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for? Enlightened things about a person? You know
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's it's basically Ron is
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: not your typical baseball player. He never played little league
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: growing up, he never played organized baseball until he was
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: in prison. He didn't graduate high school. He was a
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: drug addict. He was sent to prison for armed robbery,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and so I mean, his story is different. His story
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: is unique, I do think, and he's part of this,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: not surprisingly that there is this kind of almost folk
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: lore ness about him. And in the very beginning, I
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: remember talking to him and I was, you know, I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: think I was almost a little bit of a fan.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: In the very beginning. You know, he was nervous and
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: because I had he had this certain presence about him
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: that everyone knew. You know, he was in prison. You know,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: he was a tough guy. Uh, he obviously had a
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: really good playing career all those somewhat brief. But as
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I got to know him, I realized, you know, he's
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: he's human like everyone else. He makes his mistakes, he
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: has regrets. Uh, He's been also very fortunate and and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: that's really what I think the book that was the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: goal of the book is to make him, is to
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: erase the folk loreness about the mystique and to show
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: that he's he's a three dimensional person just like everyone.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: You know, Adam.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: We should probably obviously anyone curious about more should go
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: read this book. But for anyone who might be listening
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: to this, going, wait, what the heck, can you give
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: people a brief explainer on how Ron Lafleur came to
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: play in Major League Baseball out of prison?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it begins in Detroit. He grew up living
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: in poverty. So Ron is black, He's African American, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: he grew up in the nineteen fifties at a time
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: when segregation, Although as we all know it existed down
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: in the South, it was also quite prevalent in the
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: North too, even in Detroit. In terms of where he
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: could live, in terms of what his parents could do
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: for a living, there were a lot of limitations just
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: simply because they were African American. So he lived he
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: basically grew up living in different residences in very poor neighborhoods,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: under underfunded, underserved communities. Domestic violence was something that he
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: had to deal with with his parents. His brothers got
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: into into, you know, somewhat criminal activity and and so,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: and just being in growing up in that neighborhood, it
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: exposed him to a lot of negative elements. Today we
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: would classify it as as basically trauma. And so, you know, again,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: forty fifth actually sixty seventy years ago, we didn't have
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: the kinds of resources that we have today. So he
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: was essentially on his own by the time he was
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: about ten or eleven years old, and so he was
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: left to his own devices. And you know, you mix
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: that with someone who was a bit of a know
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: it all as a kid, and you know, living in
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: it in basically an urban ghetto. You know, he got
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: into drugs very early. He got into stealing, he got
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: into fights, a lot of brushes with the law. But
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: there were people who'd observe that, you know what, he's
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: very athletic. You know, even even as young as eleven
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and twelve years old, he was always the best athlete
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: when they were, you know, playing basketball or playing football.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: He was well built, he was fast, he had good hands,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: but he had never really played baseball. By the way
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: it was, it was either football or basketball. And but again,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: you know, just living, living where he was and making
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: some really bad choices made it so that he didn't
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: have any sort of sustainable amateur athletic experience. And so,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: you know, he would be sent to juvenile hall, he
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: would be sent to a minimum security prison, and then
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: unfortunately he got into drugs and he was run in
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: with a really bad group and they needed money, and
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: so they came up with this idea of robbing a bar.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: And back then cash was readily available. No one was
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: paying by credit cards, so ripping off a bar was
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: really an easy way to get a quick, quick buck.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So him and his buddies came up with this plan.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: He was the one holding the gun and it was
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I guess in the end, it was his idea, which
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: is why he received the longest sentence, and of course
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: they got caught. I go into it in detail in
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the book. And then he gets sent to prison, and
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it's in prison where he has that that transformation. There
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: were so many things that happened to him in prison
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: that allowed him to have an athletic career after he left.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: There was the fact that he had come across someone
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: who had ties to the Detroit Tigers. His name was
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Corella. And if you're bored you have an hour
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and a half to kill you can watch a made
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: for TV movie that does a pretty good job of
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: describing Jimmy Corrella's influence on Ron. But basically, Jimmy Corella
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: came from a long line of mafioso in Detroit and
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: he was he was in prison for extortion, and he
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: was also a baseball fanatic, and he was the manager
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of the prison baseball team, and he observed that Ron
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: was very talented, and he was like, man, this guy
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: is so good that I'm going to reach out to
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: my connection who is very close with Billy Martin, the
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: famous Yankee manager who at that time was managing the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Detroit Tigers. And so you start to kind of see
• 9:53
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• 11:01
  Speaker 1: kind of look at how fast everything happened. I'm trying,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna read off some stuff like he he
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: has the meeting with Martin and May of seventy three.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Next month he has like a tryout, he signs and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: or he's released from prison. In July of seventy three,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: he signs, plays my league baseball, and then before you
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: know it, he's like up in the majors like the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: next you know, late late the next season in seventy four.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Like just from a pure baseball perspective, take away the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: prison stuff, like, how does that even happen? Like that
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is a remarkably short amount of time for someone to
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: get up to the major leagues, given the lack of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: playing time he had.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is, And I point that out in
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the book. Is is the stars were aligned for ro
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: on the floor? You know, one thing that that I
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: emphasize in the book, and I haven't mentioned it yet,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: is he was also going He was also in prison.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: He happened to be in prison when there was a
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: new a warden who was very forward thinking and believed
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: that if you provide inmates with something constructive to do,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: like recreational sports leagues, they'll behave better you know, And
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: it's just a very simple concept that at that time,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: most wardens in America wouldn't have dared to exercise, but
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: he did. And that gave Ron opportunities to play in
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a softball league, and eventually he played in baseball league.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: It also gave him a opportunity to have the tryout
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: for the Tigers. So normally, if you're if you're in
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: prison and you haven't even served your minimum sentence yet,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: they're not going to let you out for one minute,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: let alone forty eight hours, which Ron was given because
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: he had demonstrated good behavior. So inside the walls, there
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: were a lot of opportunities for him to get in
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: touch with the Tigers and have a tryout. So then
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: he has his tryout, and you have to understand, Ron
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: has never played beyond the prison walls, so he's he's
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: given you know, he steps up to the plate, he's
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: given a bat. All of these people are watching him.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know, he meets Alkyline, he's giving instruction to someone
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: by the name of Frank Howard, who's a unfortunately recently
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: passed but he was a popular baseball player at that time.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: And he's it's it's a real tryout in front of
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: the Tigers right before a home game with the Minnesota
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Twins at Tiger Stadium, and in the very beginning, Ron
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: just whiffs. You know, they throw him a pitch and
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: he's he's holding the bat so strong that his hands
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: are bleeding, you know, I mean, he's just he's just
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: so nervous. And then he thinks to himself and this
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: is what he tells me, if I can if I
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: can get through prison, which for him and probably most
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: people who serve in a maximum security prison, it's a nightmare,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: it really is, I can get through this. And he's
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: able to settle himself down and then he starts just
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: hitting the ball, and the Tigers are impressed. But what
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: really impresses them is his speed because they so they
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: want to time him. So he hits the ball and
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: they tell him, Okay, this time, when you hit it,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I want you to run a first base. And so
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: they use a stop watch to time them, and they
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: were just in awe. He essentially ran as fast as
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: an Olympic gold medalists would at that time. I mean,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and he was doing it not in spikes, he was
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: using you know, he's just wearing street shoes. The Tigers
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: at that time were an aging team. They had won
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty eight World Series and they really hadn't
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: replaced their aging players, and so by nineteen let's see,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: this is nineteen seventy four, they're a team that needs
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: to replenish the ranks. They're no longer the thriving team
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: that they once were, and they recognized too that they
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: need some younger players, and they also need some non
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: white players. Detroit is no longer I mean, it's a
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: town that is growing, but growing primarily with an African
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: American population, and their fans are increasingly less white, and
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: so they recognize that they need more players of color
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: on their team. So Ron was a natural fit. He
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: was hometown, he was a hometown person, he was African American,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and he was quick. And so they sent them to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the miners hoping that you know, it would probably more
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: than likely have taken two years at the very least
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: for him to have succeeded in one year. It's a
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: bit of luck, it's a bit of talent, and it's
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: also a lot of hard work. He really did put
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: in the work effort, probably more during this time than
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: he ever would his in his career. Ron was just
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: naturally a gifted athlete. He had incredible timing, He was
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: able to pick up things very quickly, and his speed
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: was just incredible. The Tigers were just in awe and they,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: you know, he was doing very well in the minors
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and there he wasn't expected to he had when he
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: made it to tripa A. The expectation was that he
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: was gonna play the entire season there, and again this
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: is typical what happens in sports. There was an injury.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: It was Mickey Stanley center field, and the manager at
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: the time, Ralph Hawk, was looking at his bench and
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: all he had were newbies or people really were no
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: longer capable of playing that position, and so they had
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: three players to choose from, two of which were very experienced,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: were ready to go, but they didn't have Ron's speed,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and they felt that Ron was a game changer. They
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: felt that the two other players would have been solid,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: they would have done the job, but Ron was the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: type of player that could elevate the team and also
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: get more people in the stands, because at that time
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: that's how teams made money. It wasn't through television contracts,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: it wasn't through apparel. It was just simply selling tickets.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: So they were cognizant of that, and so they made
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the decision to bring Ron in. And Ron struggled in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the beginning. The first year and a half, he struck
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: out a lot, He made a number of errors, but
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: he eventually was able to get some really good tutoring
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and actually was during the Winter League when he was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: sent to Puerto Rico and that was the start of
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy sixth season, and then from there it
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: just want on to tear Adam.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: It's clear there moments in Ron's story, and probably your
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: interview with him, that that stand out really vividly. And
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: as someone who would like to write a book one
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: day myself but never has, it makes me wonder just
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: what your process was like in gathering information, researching who
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: else did you interview? I mean, I imagine getting Ron
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: was a big part of this. But where did you start?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Well, for this one, I started with Ron. It was
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: the first time I was writing about someone who's still alive,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: which was which was interesting. So with with this book,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I started with Ron and I wanted to see again
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: how willing he was for me to interview him, because
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: one of the first things Ron asked me is well,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: are you going to pay me for this? And I said, no,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to pay you. What I am going
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: to do is is provide a legacy. Whether it's it's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: positive or negative. Well that that remains to be seen.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I hadn't written it yet, but I think with people,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: particularly they get to a certain age, they start thinking
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: about that, you know, what is my legacy? And in
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Ron's case, I think a lot of people have forgotten
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: about Ron. Certainly if you were a fan and you're
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: probably in your late fifties, early sixties or older, I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: say Ron Lafleur, and you know who exactly I'm talking about.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But you know, he's not someone despite his story, despite
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the fact that there was a television movie made about him,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: most people today have no idea who he is, and
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: so I think he's cognizant of that. He also doesn't
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: have the best relationship with the Tiger organization, and so
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I think in his own mind, he was hoping that
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: maybe this book might revitalize interest in his life and
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: maybe renew a sense of camaraderie with the organization. But
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to answer your question, because I'm digressing here, is I
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: started with Ron, and then I just began doing a
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: lot of research about Ron's life, and so I start
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: with just gathering all of the information that I can
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: about it, particularly from primary sources. So I'm talking about
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: newspaper accounts of him. If there were other books written
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: about other Tigers or other players who had played with
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Ron when he was during his career, I tracked those down.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I would look. I checked his memoir to see, well,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: who was the ghost writer, because obviously Ron didn't write it,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and it was by a reporter by the name of
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Jim Hawkins, who was a longtime Detroit Free Press beat
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: writer for the Tigers. If I had had I think
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I interviewed something like fifty or sixty people for this book,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and there's no question that that was the best interview
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I had. Some interviews. In fact, I find when I
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: interviewed other athletes, I'm not going to say who, but
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: most of them they told me what they were comfortable
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: sharing with. But I found the journalists who were around
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: during Ron's tenure to be the most interesting. They were
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: very descriptive in their language, they had some great stories
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to share. But Jim Hawkins in particular, we spoke for
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: about ninety minutes, and it was just everything he said
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: was in the book. I mean, he just he provided
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: me with so much detail, so much insight about Ron
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that didn't make it into the book, and so I
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: was interested in all that. Now here's the thing, this
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: is not just a baseball book. If it was, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have written it. I liked baseball, but not to
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: the extent that I just wanted to focus on that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: aspect of it. This was a book about someone who
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: was incarcerated. This was about someone who grew up in
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: a basically a Jim Crow society. This was someone who
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: grew up in motor City when motor City was the
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: crown jewel of this country. So I was really interested
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: about Detroit, about how prison impacted him. I was interested
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: about his oldest brother, so I didn't know this, and
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: it really hadn't been documented before, but his oldest brother
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: was an Olympian boxer and he actually went to Rome
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixty Olympics and was on the same
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: boxing team as Muhammad Ali, who at that time was
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: known as Cassius Clay. And this really hadn't been documented
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: before in anything related to Ron. So I was able
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: to kind of draw that out. And that's that's the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: fun part about writing a book is is you learn
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: so much, not just about the character that you're writing about,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: but about all of the little tentacles that affected them
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: as they're going through life. And so that was really,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you know, to take kind of answer your question, you know.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So it's a lot of interviews, it's a lot of
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: doing research. And then as I'm doing all of this,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I'm always making notes about how do I want to
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: incorporate this into the book because it's not enough to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: do the research. It's not enough just to do, you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the interviews. You have to tell a story in a
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: way that I think, how would how do I get
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: my wife to read this? You know, she's not a
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: baseball fan, she doesn't know the Detroit Tigers from you know,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Phillies. So I often think of the person
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that would least likely read this, how do I make
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: it compelling for them? And and that's that's how I that's
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: how I go about the writing process.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: So we've heard Adam discuss like, you know, the skill
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: set of Ron Lafloor, but I did just kind of
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: want to put it out there for those that may
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: be unfamiliar, just like what the results were. You know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: he played parts of nine seasons in the major leagues.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: He was an All Star in nineteen seventy six, and
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: if you go to his Baseball reference page, you know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of bold numbers in there, like he
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: led the league. He had one hundred and twenty six
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: run season in seventy eight. He had a ninety seven
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: stolen base season with Montreal in nineteen eighty, and we
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: got like we all love war, right, he had a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: five point three war season four point one, Like this
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: was not just some charity case. He was an actual
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: good baseball player. And one of the things that I
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: when I was doing research and preparation for this interview,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: that I also found fascinating was, you know, the Billy
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Martin piece of this where it's like that's his tie
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: to the Tigers, But Billy Martin was gone by the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: time Ron Lafloor was a Detroit Tiger, and you you
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: know you mentioned Raph fuck that part. I like if
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I was like kind of going through the story, I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, man, there could have been a slip
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: up here because kind of like your champion in theory,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Billy Martin was one of his champions, is no longer
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: with the organization, but he was still kind of able
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to smooth that, you know. And I guess I had
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the trust of Ralph to get the start there in
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. And you've mentioned a couple of names here, Adam,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: but like who were Ron's biggest champions, Like who were
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the people that like, this story does not happen without them?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's important to understand one thing about
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Ron is even to this day, Ron has a lot
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: of trust issues, and that was very apparent when he
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: was brought up to the Tigers. A lot of players,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: including someone like Willie Horton, a beloved Tiger to this day,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: reached out to Ron, tried to serve as almost his mentor.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But Ron didn't take to him, you know, Ron, just
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason, he just wasn't willing to put down
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: that guard, that shield. But for only the only person
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: that I really felt, and I talk about this that
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: really I think penetrated Ron's venier is it was Ralph Halk,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: actually the manager Ralph Halk. Some may remember he was
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: an Army major in World War Two, and so that's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: why they call him the major. He was also a
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yogi Bearra's backup catcher, so he didn't see a lot
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: of action as a player, but being a catcher and
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: getting a lot of practice time watching arguably one of
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the greatest dynasties in baseball history, the New York Yankees
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: in the nineteen fifties. He was primed to be a manager,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: and he had managed the Yankees, and that came and went,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and then eventually he made it to the Tigers, and
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: he didn't have a successful run with the Tigers. Ron
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: would actually argue that his statistics would be a lot
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: better if his teammates were better. You know, he had
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: to shoulder a lot of the burdens. He got caught
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: stealing a number of times just because the teammates couldn't
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: you know, hit the ball out of the infield. So
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: but but how was Holck in him had a special rapport. Unfortunately,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Ralph he died a few years ago, so I wasn't
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: able to talk to him about it. But him and
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Ron had a connection. And I think the fact that
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Ralph had been in war had endured you know, deaths,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: and he actually I forget which medal he received, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: he received a medal for saving many of his men
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: on the field. And so this is someone who experienced
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: combat firsthand. And he was a tough guy. And Ron
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: was of course naturally a tough guy. All of his
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: teammates when they first met him were scared to death
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: of him. In fact, I think it was Norm Cash
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: told a teammate, hey, watch your wallet when Ron came
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: to the clubhouse. So that's what Ron had to deal with,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and then you kind of wonder, well, here's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: why he has trust issues. You know. People would say
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: one thing to him and then of course do another.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: But Ralph Hawk treated him well. I think he handled
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: him well. He knew when to push Ron and when
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to let him go or leave him be. And I
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: actually would argue that if it wasn't for Ralph Hawk,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think Ron would have had much of a
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: career to speak of.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Adam, you used the word trust, and I think
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: that's interesting in this context with a lot of stuff
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: you're talking about. Has kind of been on my mind
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: lately because we're talking about what does the documentary or
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: how do we define journalism in this day and age.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: You set out to do an independent, unauthor biography, you
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: get the subject, but you make it clear he is
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: not being compensated for this, and for better or for worse,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the Ron Lafore story, as you've outlined, is not nice
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: and tidy. It's also not he makes the major leagues
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: and he rides off into the sunset and everything is great.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: How did you go about telling a nuanced story? And
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: did you ever wonder is Ron Lafleur going to like this?
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Is he gonna be okay with what I write?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Well, let me answer that question first. So, because Ron
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: is still alive and well, the thought would cross my mind,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: and it actually forced me to be a fact checker
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: beyond what I would maybe normally do. I wanted to
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: make sure I got it right and if there was
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: ever something that he could clear up for me, I
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: would check with him. My goal wasn't to make him happy.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: My goal was to get the story right and to
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: tell his story, because that story cannot happen today. You
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: look at young athletes today and they almost all have
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the same story. I mean, let's you know, there's no
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: diamond in the rough anymore. Let's be honest, it's almost
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: impossible for that to happen. In the nineteen seventies, that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: could happen, you know, I would actually find advertisements in
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: old Detroit Free Press newspapers about tryouts, like literally, like
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it says, if you are a high school athlete or
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: a college you know, baseball player, come to the tryouts.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: You know. This would be like in January or February,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: you know, at some I forget the name of the park,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: but it was a park in Detroit, you know, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the Tigers would whole tryouts, you know. I mean it's
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: just unheard of today. Ron's story and so that's what
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: makes it so unique and worth telling. I don't know
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: if the answers all your questions, but.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, speaking of things that weren't Hollywood,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you know, he he gets traded from the Tigers before
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: the nineteen seventeen or excuse me, nineteen eighty season, and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: that's you know, obviously every Tigers fan knows that's you know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: kind of the beginning of like an ascension into the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: next championship with the eighty four team. What led to Ron,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: who still was a good baseball player his last season
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: in Detroit three point two war, what led to his
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: departure from the Tigers? And you mentioned earlier about he
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the best relationship with the franchise. Does that
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: go all the way back to that or is there
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: anything you can shed some light on there.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I talked a lot about Ralph Halk. Halk retired,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: although he would devence we come back to baseball, but
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: he retired in nineteen seventy nine, at the end of
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy nineties. At that time, Ron's a veteran.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: He's definitely the face of the franchise, and he knows it,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: and he's he's up for contract negotiations, you know, for
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy nine years. So Halk retires and they
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: bring in someone by the name of Sparky Anderson, and
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: it's you know, Sparky is very different from Ralph Halck
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Ralph Helk was from what I was able to understand,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: he never played favorites based on personalities, based on whether
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: they were loyal to you. It was really based on
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: your play. Sparky Anderson did not operate like that. And
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Sparky also had quite the ego, which is which is
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: not gonna be a surprise to anyone who followed his
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: managerial career. And Ron had an ego too, and and
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: together they clashed and it was it was not a
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: good marriage. And uh, Sparking made sure that Ron was
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: not going to stay with the Tigers beyond the what
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: his first season with the team, and Ron got traded
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to the expos I think Ron could have salvaged his
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: his reputation. Unfortunately, Uh you can take Ron out of
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: uh you know, east side Detroit. But but that element
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: was still in him. And unfortunately he got into drugs.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: And I not just you know, smoking marijuana, but you know,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: he was doing cocaine actively. He was partying a lot.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: He he had some child support issues that came up,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: and he just also was full of himself, you know,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, athletes are naturally going to have egos,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and everyone's going to praise them, and they're going to
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: pretty much get whatever they want. And when you're a
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: superstar athlete like Ron was at that time, it's it's tenfold.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So as long as Ron produced at the plate, you know,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: he was going to continue to be well received by
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: fans and by teammates and by management. But when Ron
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: arrived in the Montreal expos he was in a lot
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of ways, he was like a hired gun. You know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: he was a veteran player who was who was there
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: to get on base. He was going to be their
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: lead off player, and he fulfilled that role. But it
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: was Montreal, and in Montreal nineteen eighty, which I learned,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: it was quite the popular place to be. It was
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: like it was like going to Miami. I mean it
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: was it was a big like when players came there,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you know, for their three or four game series, they
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: knew it was it was party time. And so Ron
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: went to all the clubs and he was he was
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: telling me he was parting with Barbara Streisan. You know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: he would go backstage at a Bob Marley concert. You know,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: what was his name, Sugar Ray Robinson, the boxer. You know,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: he had front row seats when he when he was
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: during a match, so and and the Expos at that
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: time they had Bill Lee build the spacemanly uh, so
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: they had some interesting characters. Uh, this is you know. Anyways,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: So he he tried to manage his night career, his
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: night time partying, you know, with also having his his
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: daytime job, which was playing, uh for the Expos. And
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: he struggled with the Expos primarily in the field. You know,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: he was playing on artificial turf, which he wasn't used to.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: He was playing in left field, wasn't used to and
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: so and it was it was indoors, you know, it
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: was it was a dome. It was the Olympic Dome.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: So uh, he struggled there and he he got along
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: with his teammates until one day Ron had an interview
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: with the magazine that's no longer around it was, I
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: think it was called Inside Sports, and he said some
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: things that he later apologized for and to this day regrets.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: He talked about how he felt that the fans in
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Montreal were racists, that Major League Baseball was racist. He
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: said the commissioner at the time should should smoke pot.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, he made some just obstirred allegations that again
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: today would never have happened because you would probably have
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the agent in the room, you would probably have had
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the questions in advance. You know. He went out for
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: drinks with the reporter, you know, and he just he
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: just ran his mouth and he he forgot all about it,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you know. And and then the magazine comes out and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: everyone's reading it. It's being widely reported in Canada, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: then it makes its way to the United States, and
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: it was very embarrassing. And it was also the kiss
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: of death for him because he didn't get re signed
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: and the Expos had Tim Rains in the wings, so
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: replacing Ron wasn't that big of a deal. And Ron,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: by the time he left Montreal, he had a serious
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: drug problem and he was just assuming that his talent
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: would would carry him. But you know, he was aging
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and he wasn't in good shape anymore. He wasn't as
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: fast as he used to be, and that was obviously
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: a big part of Ron's game. He goes to the
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Chicago White Sox and there's a new manager and his
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: name is Tony Larusa, and Larusa was serious minded. He
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: didn't at least courting and Ron didn't have much of
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: a sense of humor and didn't tolerate any of Ron's antics.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And LaRussa wanted Ron out, and but Ron was gonna,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you know, he obviously wanted to play, and he really
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: wanted his paycheck. And so actually Ron has let go
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: of the team, but he still wants to get paid,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: and he ends up suing them and he wins. But
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: he's also persona non grata in baseball. And he had
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: also during that time, had made some comments again two
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: reporters about his experience in Detroit. He was still very
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: upset that they had let him go. He spoke very
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: poorly about their general manager, and you know, all of
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: those things. And then of course he had a few
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: brushes with the law. No team wants to be connected
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: with him, you know, especially the Detroit Tigers. While a
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: lot of players, you know, are trying to become managers
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: or have some sort of role in Major League Baseball
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: after their playing career, Ron had no success at doing that.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: The only teams that would hire him were these independent
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: minor league baseball leagues that had no direct affiliation with
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Major League Baseball. And so Ron just, you know, he
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: just kind of tried to make the best of what
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: was really an untenable situation. He worked as a security guard,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: He worked as a skycap, he worked as an amateur umpire,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: He ran a baseball camp. I mean, he would do
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: whatever he had to do to get money on the table.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: And eventually he also started signing autographs. So in the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: in the late eighties early nineties, when baseball cards were
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: getting very popular, there started to become a demand for
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: players autographs, and so he's to this day that's a
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: big part of his income is from that. And so
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: eventually the Tigers do invite him to a ceremony. It's
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: the closing of Tiger Stadium nineteen ninety nine, and it's
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: the last home game at Tiger Stadium, and he, along
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: with every other living Tiger, is invited, and you know,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: he gets called onto the field, they say his name,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: he gets a giant applause. Doesn't look like Ron Lafloor.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: That the players, you know that the fans remember he's
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: much heavier and obviously he's older, but you know, he
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: was warmly received. He leaves the stadium and in the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: parking lot as he's putting his mom into his car
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: because she was confined to a wheelchair. At that point,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: the police come up to him and they arrest him
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: for failure to provide child support. And the next day
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: it's in the newspapers, and rather than talk about the
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: ceremony that had taken place at Tiger Stadium, all of
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the articles are about Ron's arrest, And that was really
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: the final nail on the coffin. And that was, like
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I said in nineteen ninety nine, I don't believe he's
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: had really any formal communication with the Tiger since then.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Adam, we are already over time here. So my final question,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: you've got some time with ronflore how do you think
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: he feels about his life? And do you cinc any
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: remorse for some of the mistakes he made along the way.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I think, like anyone, he has regrets, and he's acknowledged them.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I think he also knows how lucky he is. Most
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: of his contemporaries, I don't mean in baseball, but people
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: he grew up with, they're no longer around. Almost all
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: of his friends had either died or were in prison
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: by the time they were twenty five. None of his
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: brothers lived a very long life, So I think he
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: feels a sense of you know that he was very
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: fortunate that he really was one in a million. But
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: he certainly if he could go back in time, age
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: matures you, age mellows you, and it certainly did for him.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: He wished he could have done a few things differently
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and put his ego aside and and you know, go
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: about and just focus on playing rather than trying to
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: be mister macho.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, the one of the things that
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I am attracted to the Ron the Floor story is
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that like every descriptor about this country, about culture, about history,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: like applies to him. You know, there's tragedy, there's obviously,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: you know, great success, there's uneven this, there's you know,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: there's regrets, there's luck. Like everything is kind of encapsulated
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in there. And I want to make sure people know
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: where to where to find this work of yours, Adam,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: So plug away whatever you got a plug so people
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: can go go find your your book, Baseball's Outcasts, the
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Story of On the Floor.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: So it'll be published on April second, so you can
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: you can buy it online. You can buy it, you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: at your local bookstore. If they don't have it, they
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: can order it for you, and you can get it
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: at Amazon. You can get it at bookshop dot org.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: You can, like I said, almost any any independent bookstores
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: should be able to carry it, will carry it, or
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: you can, like I said, you can order it Barnes
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: and Nobles. If you want some more information, you can
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: always go to my website ww dot Adam Hennick dot com.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: You can sign up for my newsletter where I talk
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: about the process, the writing process, and some stories that
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: didn't make it into the book, as well as what
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I'll be working on next. And thank you again for
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: having me. I enjoyed talking with you. And yeah, it's
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: been great.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Oh thanks so much for your time. We could keep
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: going for hours on this. I hope everyone out there
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: checks out the book absolutely. Thanks again Adam for coming on.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you