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When the Work You Love Disappears: Grief, Reinvention, and Learning to Build a Life on Your Terms · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to Kind of a Big Deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kristen Belden, and I have such a good conversation for you today.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are some people you come across who just stop you.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even fully know why at first.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: You just know there's something there worth paying attention to.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was Nareet for me.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I saw her speak on a panel about a year ago when she was the executive director of Music Forward Foundation, Live Nation's nonprofit arm, which spent over 30 years building pathways for young people into the music industry.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Her care for the work and for the humans it was impacting was impossible to miss.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I did something I don't always do.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I reached out cold before I even had this show.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: What I didn't know is that message landed in her inbox the very week her world changed.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Music Forward was being sunset.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: An organization that had reached 20,000 young people across multiple countries and had just built the first federally recognized apprenticeships into music and live entertainment in the US was gone.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Nareet was the one who had to see it through.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: What followed was a year she'll tell you herself took six months just to breathe through.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what came out on the other side, the clarity, the presence, the way she's reimagining what comes next, is something I think a lot of us need to hear.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about grieving the work you loved, how to stop chasing the goal and start building the context of the life you actually want, and why being an artist and being an entrepreneur might just be the same act with different tools.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad she wrote back, and I think you will be too.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Nareet.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Kristen.
• 1:40
  unknown: Hi.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good to see you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So good to see you too.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nereet Siegel Smith.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: This woman is a testament to reaching out to someone who made an impression on you, even if you don't know them, and just going for it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, a lot of times in life we can feel intimidated about the like cold outreach.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But this was somebody who I saw and thought, wow, she's incredible.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: She's obviously got a lot of story to share.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I reached out before I had even started this show.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was just compelled to reach out to her based on what she was sharing.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had seen her speak at this event around this time last year when she was then the executive director of the Music Forward Foundation, which was slash is, but I think was.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Was yes, Live Nations nonprofit arm, which was essentially championing a more inclusive music industry.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you can tell us more about that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: But she was on a panel about the realities of what it looks like to try and create apprenticeships in creative industries, and her care and passion for the work really struck me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had been working in apprenticeship work for years prior to that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so to hear the way she was thinking about that specifically in creative industry was really compelling.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, there's been some pivots, like we just touched on, that she can tell us a little bit about.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But when we chatted recently, she confirmed my assumptions that she's awesome and a badass and is just an incredibly thoughtful and talented leader.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is not always that you come across someone who views the world with such intention and care.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just a real honor to have you here chatting with me today.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Kristen.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's been such a journey the past year.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you, your email to me was literally the week things changed in my life professional life, and then rippled uh across the rest of it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I've, you know, it took me a while to actually circle back with you, and I had to be, I was just totally transparent and said, um, my life's changed.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you really still want to talk about this.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can talk about it because I really love the work, but I don't know.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm just so grateful that you said yes um uh to it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I could tell from that uh, you know, first conversation we had that um that you you understand the liminal space.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, too.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right, yes.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: We could have gone on for hours about just that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so interesting, right?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is such a good point that you raise when I reached out to you, it was in a totally different context.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, by the time you responded, I had also shifted some of my focus and lens.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was kind of a perfect, it's another good, I think, probably, you know, um, lessons not the right word, but for anyone that maybe has reached out to someone and hasn't heard back, like it doesn't mean it's dead.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: You just never know what's going on in someone's life.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: We have no idea what's happening for people.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think, especially if you can kind of like hold someone with a certain reverence or respect, it can feel like, oh, you know, I didn't hear and it can feel, but I it's interesting.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I did not have that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, oh, I'll bet you she's just got a lot going on.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Turns out you did.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's also something I've always spoken to my teammates about and staff about.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had to personally really think about it this past year as well, is like all the seeds I planted, and frankly, which ones do I want to water and put light on, and which ones do I want to start cultivating a bit more?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to remember to keep planting seeds.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: You have to.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, it might be 18 years later.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I reached out to some friend from fourth grade that I love now that I have time to kind of go, hey, you know, this was like this beautiful tree I had in my life when I was eight, nine, ten years old, and I really love this woman.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: And let's have lunch.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: My gosh, I love that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely believe in don't hesitate to plant those seeds.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um then again, you can keep coming back to it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as we get older, we realize you know, that there isn't that like urgency and immediacy of needs needing things to come back that we understand that there that we've got this like timeline.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at the same time, everything's going faster.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like Yes.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a this is so interesting and important though, because I was just interviewing a woman who she's the director of education for the Roberts Families Development Center in Sacramento, and they do a lot of work in community, working with under-resourced families, the folks that have children that are maybe going in and out of like behavioral health challenges or the juvenile justice system.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And her whole journey that she's been on as a leader of our kind of age group is navigating what it means to support and hold the upcoming generation that's entering the workforce and recognizing that this is a skill that is going to have to be taught very explicitly, this idea of not having instant gratification, because they grew up in a time where, you know, a smartphone was just essentially an extension of their experience from a very young age.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was saying she feels like we need to really rethink.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: We can tend to look at that as entitlement, like the way they show up in some spaces, but it's actually just expectation that I immediately get a response or a whatever.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she has to work with them to say it's not a personal thing.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: If someone does not respond to you right away, it could be X, Y, and Z.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that it has anything to do with you.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's hard enough for a generation of humans who did not grow up with that level of immediate gratification.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're saying that because I think even if we are not in that space, we as leaders have to think about what that means for the next generation that's coming in, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had she started as just like a coordinator and she wanted my salary in a couple of years.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, wow, it took me 20 years to get to that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but go for it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, but yeah, it's also such a dynamic world right now.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we can have all of these learned experiences, but I don't know.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's also anything is impossible right now.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I feel too.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a wacky, I mean, I feel like I'm in liminal space and they go, and the country's in liminal space, and the world is in liminal space too.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like we're just in this in-between of what we were and what we're going to be.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're all trying to figure out a number of us, even if you're like working a job, but like a number of us are trying to figure out where are we going and and how do I spend my energy today to help guide us through this time into a better future, too.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so true.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we had talked a little bit about how we've both navigated my my transition happened, you know, several years ago, yours, you know, around this time last year, I believe, and how it can feel very scary and also in some ways really exciting because it gives us an opportunity to rethink some things and to ask ourselves those hard questions that maybe we hadn't asked.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to, I definitely want to dig in there, but I think to start, um, the arts and creative industries can kind of feel like really foreign to anyone who's not worked in these spaces or can kind of feel abstract.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to know how did you land where you did?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's go back to baby Nare days.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always drawn to the arts and music specifically, or did that come later?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, um it's interesting because I remember being quite an introvert, although as a gymnast, and so you have to like stand up there and do your performance or your routine.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I I did feel quite an introvert.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was always in sort of the geeky honors classes and I excelled in school, but I transitioned from gymnastics into dance around middle school, and so dance just became a passion point for me.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: That my mother even allowed me to graduate university with a dance and theater degree.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that shows that she really just wanted me to kind of find my own path.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I knew early was I gonna be the a dancer and went to New York with the degrees, and I was like, I'm here.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And New York was like, Who are you?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm here, and I've got these degrees.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I knew that, you know, I always felt as an artist.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And those first few years after college, it was like auditioning, but like, do I teach?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do I book?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Am I a booking agent?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do I run theaters?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was testing all of these ways to make money and started to see, like, oh, there are multiple career pathways into the creative industries, and particularly in that arts and culture space.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's when I was also bumping up against nonprofits, the social sector.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I really would like to figure out how to way to move the word nonprofit out of our lexicon, because it's just has connotations to it.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: So and I was bumping up against the social sector because, of course, the earths aren't in the nonprofit sector.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I landed my first sort of official job in my mid-20s in the program side of a nonprofit, the Screen Actors Guild Foundation.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: So now I was working with actors, I was performing in the theater with actors, and then there were actors, you know, these film and television actors, and I was seeing the mix of all of them, and I was also seeing the struggle.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was living at home at the beginning and trying to it's hard to be an artist in this country.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard to choose that pathway.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I talk art in the broadest finance, music, like all of it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's really difficult.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you make a living and still be able to create, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Still be able to cultivate that artistic voice of yours.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I did that for about a decade, still working in the nonprofit and staying curious about the nonprofit.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, hey, I want to do more of this program.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I need to raise money for this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I want to tell the story.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I need to market this.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I started the newsletter and I started the Facebook.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: The Facebook had to start, you know, I was raising dollars for it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started, you know, I went from programs, went into marketing partnerships, and then went into development and built the entire advancement team there.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I also started seeing the generative nature of organizations very similar to how we create and build art and the generative nature of the art.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I started also identifying and articulating leadership because I was also choreographing and directing and creating music and sort of reflected my shared leadership philosophy, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I could really start seeing my artistic practice start to imprint and impact how I work and lead in these like office professional settings.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so from there helped run this amazing organization, um downtown LA, a free summer concert series called Grand Performances.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, I became the executive director of the Music Forward Foundation.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at the time I remember feeling like I was bouncing around.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then 25 years later, you look back and you're like, oh, it's a straight line.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my god, like, oh, and interestingly enough, even though a lot of the institutions I worked in were decades old, and I felt the care you had to give to these, um, to the history and the legacy that came, because Music Forward had initially been birthed as the International House of Blues Foundation in the early 90s.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was a 25-year-old institution when I stepped in.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you still have to bring this entrepreneurial sort of spirit to it, because there are external factors that are shifting around you, plus the internal things that are moving, and you constantly have to be on your toes.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I had friends that once I stopped performing a lot too, they were like, Do you miss it?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, actually, this work is quite creative, right?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're still sculpting and creating, and you're still, you know, working with all different characters, and you're still and I still had a stage because I oftentimes had a microphone in my hand talking and didn't feel like I was losing that opportunity to connect with people.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: I loved Music Forward, and when there was a moment a year ago when it came from on top that they wanted to pivot the mission of the organization after 32 years, I had to go through a grieving process.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And frankly, as I was sunsetting this uh impactful organization, it was reaching 20,000 young people across uh multiple countries, the majority of the states.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: We built the entire path into the music industry, and you mentioned apprenticeships was that like final nugget.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: It took us five years to build that like final, the first federally recognized apprenticeships in the United States into music and live entertainment.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: But how do we get young people in middle school and high school just aware of all the careers?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: They used to say, you know, at the end of the at a movie, you see the crawl of all the names of the people that were involved.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I said at a concert, because there's screens, even in the smallest club, there's usually a screen.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Start crawling all the names of the people involved, and you start going, oh, that's a job, that's a job, that's a job, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to be on the stage, and then three years later, maybe you're still playing in a band, but you're like, I help build that stage, I helped do that sound.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I talk about cold place tour manager, this amazing woman, started in the box office, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So awareness, then preparing them, getting them ready, having them understand how to build some of these softer skills, communication, collaboration, like all of those 21st century skills so they can also feel like they can, even inside of the industry, learn how to pivot and move and be flexible and have the confidence to do it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course the placement, like internships, and that's the apprenticeships.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had to sunset the whole thing.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I I kept saying, like, I don't think I can do this.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I can do this.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was January 25th.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I I don't think I can I can it was hurting, like it was hurting us to do it.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was like I said, who else who better to do this than me?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like who better to make sure?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we were able to hand pieces and resources and things around to other nonprofits.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I kept my my mantra for those first sort of six months of 25 was I am water, I am water, I am water.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I tried to like hold the line, it would break and it would hurt.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I kissed like this isn't feeling good.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: I can't be a rock here.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have to just flow because the pressure, the power of the river was too much for me.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was trying to like find people to help build dams and they would try and then it would just break through, and I'd be like, ow, you know, it was yeah, you know, it hurts every time.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're in water.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: In water.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I spoke to somebody in this sort of music education space just this January, just a couple months ago, and she didn't realize the closure, and she was in tears.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I could tell I had gone through so much of this grieving process already that I could hold to you a little bit like so true.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a woman that I deeply respect.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: She runs an executive coaching program that I went through last year or a year and a half ago now, actually.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she talks a lot about how some of this you you have the scar has to be starting before we can share it in a way that can still be held and powerful, right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's when the wound is open and you're bleeding everywhere, it can be really tough to like speak to it, to speak into it, right?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not to say that we shouldn't be sharing our grief or we shouldn't be sharing the process, but it's a different thing to your point when you have started to recognize that you are through some of that process and you have turned into the river instead of like holding on to all the branches, your relationship to that experience changes so much.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want to come back to that because there's so much to dig into just about what your last year has held for you.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm really interested in what you were just sharing around both this recognition that there are career opportunities in arts and culture spaces and creative spaces that we would never even think of.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I went to school for, I was a fine arts major and in many ways unfortunately kind of stripped away a lot of my love for it because it became very um, you know, for lack of a better term, formulaic and like a way to quote unquote be good at your craft, and it just never quite worked for me.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I, in my head, I remember thinking, well, I'm never gonna be in a studio painting by myself all day long.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: It just is never gonna happen.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love people too much, I love collaboration too much, but it was such a misconception and I think a real missed opportunity to be going through school for something that you love and then not understand.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so many other vocations in these spaces.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that I also feel is really aligned with kind of what you were touching on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Around how do we define creativity?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do we define what it means to be a creative person?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think sometimes we have this idea that if I can't, you know, draw, then I'm not a creative person.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, like there's a million ways that you get to be creative or practice a craft that isn't necessarily directly related to the output part.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: My husband talks about this a lot because he was raised by an incredibly strong and amazing woman who talked a lot about like your creativity can look different.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: It could be that you make brownies.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: It can be that you, you know, like whatever.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: It can be so many different things.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this is so much of what you were focused on with music forward was how do we make that more a part of the conversation?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if you saw that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, could you have recognized that when you were trying out and testing all those different things, the auditioning and the teaching and the you know, booking?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was that a conscious awareness for you, or is it in hindsight that you can see that?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't articulated.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, with you, Kristen, there aren't a lot of mentors out there either.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's another whole nother conversation.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, not a lot.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was like, I think I had like the opposite of mentors.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had a whole other thing that happened.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that there that it was never articulated, and I think creative paths were encouraged as well.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's why, you know, having a mother who was not in a creative, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um to hold me and allow me to keep exploring and really allowing my life to unfold in the time that it did.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I remember she had a cousin that was just like, don't worry, don't worry.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: She'll, you know, she'll find her brother.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my brother is a lawyer, did this and went to law school, and then he was a lawyer.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like that, I you know, it was this path that was already paved, that already was paved in gold.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was that I learned this um, it's called bundu bashing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is say it again.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I married a South African, so he taught me this word.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the bundu is like the bush, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you're out with your machete, you know, doing this.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this aha moment.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, artists are bundubashing their path.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is no, this isn't like the path that was already made.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: It is creative pad off, is you're out there, and sometimes somebody's already gone through this path, and so you're gonna walk down that path.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then, as an artist and creative, you're gonna be like, Oh, I wonder what's over there.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me wanna bash a little bit more, let me figure this out.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you're banging a tree and it's not going down, and you have to actually pivot, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're sitting there like trying for years, like doing this um endeavor and it's not working.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, let's keep moving, but we're not on a path that is thin paved.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's something that creators, I think, just have to understand the nature of their journey.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is an active, physically active work that has to be done.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I think that goes back to what we were talking about in terms of sort of time, that it takes longer sometimes because it's paid, right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't and sometimes it's so frustrating, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's sometimes that I'm like, gosh, I really wish that I would have just had a calling for a thing that had a straight line.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, quick pause before we get back into it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to conversations like this one and something keeps nudging you, like, I know I'm at some kind of turning point, I just can't quite see it clearly yet.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually exactly what I do.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I work with women leaders who are in the middle of something: a career shift, a business that's ready to evolve, a moment where what got you here just isn't cutting it anymore.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes what you need most isn't a whole program or a big engagement.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You just need a few hours with someone who can help you see what you're too close to see yourself.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's the clarity session.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a focused, one-on-one conversation where we dig into where you are, where you want to go, and what's actually in the way.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: You walk away with real direction, not a list of homework, but genuine clarity on your next move.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: If that sounds like what you need right now, I'd love to talk.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can find all the details at Beldenstrategies.com slash clarity.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so fascinating as you're sharing this, because the first thing that's coming to my mind just selfishly is oh, like that's what entrepreneurship is as well.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is this same concept of boondu bashing.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there is no you have a million people in front of you that have done it a certain way and can say they have the formula for how it works.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's worked for them.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important, right, to have it's there's an incredible wealth of information out there now on how to build or how to scale.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great to listen to that and internalize it, but you have to really know that you have to take the pieces from it that actually uh resonate for you, that you can't just follow somebody else's formula.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of that right now, frankly, like follow X, Y, and Z, and you're gonna be, you know, a millionaire in a month.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's all good.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that for you.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: But how do we do it in a way where you're giving people the knowledge and the information?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: But recognizing that most folks that are interested in building a business or interested in creative spaces, they're not in a full-time traditional role because they don't want to be told what to do every step of the way.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: How can we think with a little bit more nuance around what some of that information is?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think these two things are very aligned.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Being an artist is being an entrepreneur in a lot of ways, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I want to bring it back to you and kind of this um season that you've been in.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have the now year since you had to start thinking about what it means to sunset this thing that you cared so deeply about.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You and I aligned on this a lot when we first chatted because unfortunately, with my org, it just it literally vanished overnight.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: There was no care to be taken because it was gone.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: But similarly, cared so deeply about the work and the humans it was impacting.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so the grieving process for that felt even more intense than the like letting go of the thing itself.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I recognized that I had to ask myself some really hard questions that I had not asked myself in the years prior because I just had never allowed myself to get quiet enough to ask those questions.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we also come from a time of like hustle and go.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a woman leader, you better keep your seat at the table or someone else gonna grab it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no time to stop or reflect or pause.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so when it's kind of forced into your lap, it's like, no, no, I didn't want that.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, go away.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to just keep going.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's why I was also so drawn to the way you were sharing it, because sometimes these things do happen to us and we don't take the time to reflect, we just move straight into what's next and push forward.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you have taken this season to really ask yourself some thoughtful questions and think about what's next.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So as you were maybe not coming out of, because I don't know we have we ever come out of that moment completely.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something that will be a part of us from a transition as uh difficult and challenging as the one that we both experienced.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I noticed there was then at some point a pivot more into my own self-reflection and trying to figure out kind of like where I wanted to be and how I wanted to spend my time.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really curious if that was similar for you.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find yourself starting to unpack some things and peel back some layers that maybe you found something interesting or surprising about yourself and where you found yourself in that moment?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you know, sometimes you don't even know where you are until months later and you turn back and you're like, oh, that's where I was feeling.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I want to say it, it took me six months to just 100% grieve.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like literally exactly the same.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I I was gonna say the exact same thing.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just six months.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so weird.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I tell people too, like the last half of 2023 was just wretched, just absolutely awful.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's interesting you say six months.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry, keep going.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I decided to just smoke a lot of pot and like be inside, which is kind of what I do the same.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can I have also a cocktail and can I do it all?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I actually thought that it was helping me to sort of be to go to hibernate a little bit, right?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was like licking my wounds and kind of just, you know, I I was very sensitive on who was around me and what type of uh inspiration.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I started kind of picking up different books, books that had been sitting on my nightstand for like 10 years.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or um, I took a course on wise agency, and I was starting to tap into knowledge and listening to not just my geopolitical podcasts, but you know, going back to some of the other meditation podcasts and philosophy podcasts and trying to just be open to feeling again because you know when you feel it just it hurts, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was hurting.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think that was starting to help me get out, and I realized after having lunch with someone that I was tangentially connected to, I came back like I had energy a little bit.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I went, oh I need people.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't be alone, you know, just driving kids to that school and driving and making dinner, even though like finding breath in action was I think very good because when you're working full-time and running a household, you're never present.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was actually quite good to find that stillness, yes, meaning fully present again.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it just it it took a while to get there.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you you kind of touched on this um when you were talking about that like that uh, you know, some of that entrepreneurs and some like systems and you know, having to redefine measurements of success for myself.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I would do that with my organizations.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, how do I why don't I do some of that strategic planning on myself, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is my mission?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: What are my values?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: What does success mean to me?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I shared this with you as well.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: I had a huge framework shift just a couple of months ago where it's like don't what is this goal and striving for a goal?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I flipped it and switched it and said, How do I create the context of my life that I want to be in so that that my life can unfold from there?
• 34:46
  unknown: Right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because I really was like, oh, I I was applying for jobs and I was doing that whole race again, and it was not feeling good.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was not feeling good.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, is that the goal to get another job?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that the goal?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Part of the goal.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I part of it though, Kristen, like I'm just as layers keep peeling and awareness keeps peeling, my purpose and my work were so intertwined as well.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, I actually don't have to be a hundred percent.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can serve on boards, I can volunteer, I can be as a present for my kids and my husband.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: My relationship with my husband is the best it's been a very long time.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: How can I be fully present for them and have purpose there?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then make money somewhere else.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like so that's some of that, and I I also get that that comes with privilege too, like that I'm able to even like I worked fucking hard for 25 years, and you know what, we're not gonna redo the bathroom, and we're not gonna redo the kitchen, and we're not gonna do that because that's time.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it was interesting, I think, for also in in terms of you know, as my role and my salary increased, we didn't change our lifestyle that much.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is oh my gosh, I have this is such a huge point that I have been really hell-bent on lately because it keeps coming up for me as well, which is I went from not a great salary, like fine, you know, also worked in nonprofits.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I landed at Bitwise, I built to a salary that I could have literally never imagined ever in my life.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never in my young Christian days thought that that was even a possibility for me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so to go from like not much to all of that to then literally nothing again, and then choosing to be in debt in order to build with purpose instead of looking for the next job to like fill that hole.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent my baseline joy, my baseline just like being content did not change based on where I was with a salary or not.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, this is my big joke right now is I feel more present, fulfilled, happy now.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the most financially insecure I've ever been.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is the it doesn't make any sense.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it does, in the sense that exactly to your point, I think that's such a massive lesson that bizarrely we've almost had the benefit of seeing, even though it's been traumatic to see it in the way that we have.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I wish I could share that with people and say, like, it doesn't because but it's like you can't, I wonder, it's like, can people embody that without experiencing it?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I think you know, people talk about this all the time.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, money doesn't make you happy.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Again, to your point around privilege, like once your baseline level needs are met, then pass that.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: It it's great that you could do.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we got to do more vacations and shit.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was cool, but it didn't change the foundation of my general happiness.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm interested, even as you were saying it didn't change your lifestyle.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, does that resonate for you too?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just even as you're talking about your relationship with your husband being in the best place that it's been in.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that wild that we have to go through these things sometimes to strip it all down to get to that foundation?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know, and it's one of those, you know, when you listen to the meditation apps, and I was breathing through, you know, all my years of work and you know, be there, be present, be present, you know.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I was never present.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was never present fully present.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, I'm with you on that.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was always driving towards what's next in some way, right?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you're that yes, right.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's too hard.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I find myself if I'm totally honest, because I was exactly right where you're at, you know, about a year after it was, and and I'm finding myself kind of starting to go back into bad habits where I can convince myself that as I'm trying to build my business and as I'm trying to create something that matters, or you know, I build a life that feels like it's intentional, there's still that I still really have to be careful.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to fall back into this.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have to do all the things, and da-da-da-da-da.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like, if I can't get at it, then like I'm not gonna make the progress I want.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard, even after you've learned it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I'd love to do this conversation a year from now, too.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think we should.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: We think we should see that journey.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think that just articulating that that framework of making building the context of my life.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think one of the things we talked about the last time too is that there's so much stuff to react to right now, right?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many things that are sort of like breaking, or there's shit just happening, and we just want to react all the time to it.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: And how do we build this muscle of watching or staying curious?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: How do we keep our feet grounded in a way and working that muscle?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because as I'm trying not to react, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's going back to what you were saying.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how do I not fall back into that mode?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think part of that vision too is how do I spend my time on things that want to be reborn that I can actually attend to?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do I use my energy to build rather than to react?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's just in theory.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do I then put that into practice?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or how, as I'm meeting people, how do I pour into those projects, or how do I give in a way that doesn't feel like my feet are leaving the ground, or I can't still be present.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for all of you.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you have found that you can tell the difference physically?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know I can.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: When I am, like let's say I go to an event or something, I can literally feel when I'm like actually centered in my body and when I'm actually present versus when I've got like a little bit of this like freneticness coming back in.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I never had that before.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would have told you I was present and in the moment, but I can literally physically feel it now, which is a really wild thing to have tapped into because I did not have anything even remotely close to that before.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And now, though, I feel like one of the hacks is I can at least see it or feel it happening and go like, okay, something's either not totally right in my body right now, or like I'm to your point reacting to a stimuli that is not feeling great, or maybe this is just not my place or my moment, and that's okay.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not to be hard on myself and say you need to be present and grounded all the time because that's not possible.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think it's really interesting to be able to at least recognize it now and go, okay, what was that?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And why was I feeling like that?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I get back to myself?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that physically now?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, as a dancer, the physical, the somatic world is so again that it's um been something that I've had to build my entire life.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think it is something that is spectacular that you're able To see that when I am going through some emotional thing, I will always think about where in my body is triggered too.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes your body can trigger the emotion, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to watch that too.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that being able to tap in into your physical embodiment.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think that is that is great that you can even see that.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it is something that again, as as dancers, I feel like we have a separate brain in our bodies.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: There is just how we learn and and you know, we have to learn how to feel people coming behind us, and we have to learn where we are in space and time and um what how this muscle reacts when we move that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so there really is a connection to our bodies that I'm grateful to have that.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 45:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: See, you were talking about something earlier around when you were a fine artist and going through school, and what also like school can sometimes put you in here into your head.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we start off here, and oftentimes we forget about our gut too.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And in leadership, there's also leading from the head, the heart, and the gut space.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it's so often it's easy to just especially, you know, when I want to protect these things, you just kind of lead from here and you're like, this is the right decision.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is I should apply for that.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is the cover letter I should send, right?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then something's not feeling right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think this is the time, this like heart guts time.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And now that you're bringing the head back in, right?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: This past year, it's like, wait, something's not like jealous.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we keep that balance between all of it?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you're right.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's, I mean, my equilibrium, it's just slowed down.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that, that energy.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: How do we bring that into the rooms we're in?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: But we might have a lot of fun and go crazy.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, listen, you'll get me out in the right environment.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, forget it.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something about even being present in that, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: There is something about your body allowing yourself to feel free in that moment.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're still in some way connected to the moment.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking at the clock and I'm freaking out because I know I only have you for six more minutes, and I have so many more questions.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm trying to very quickly in my mind think about how I want to narrow this down.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think, okay, two last questions.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: One is I'd love to hear what's calling to you right now.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that when you think about, I'm not saying like what's your five-year plan, but what are you, what's coming to surface and what's percolating?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: And are there like spaces or topics or humans or things that you're finding that you might want to start kind of diving into your curiosity?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I had an interview about a month ago.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't make it past the that round, but I came out going, oh, I think I can love again.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like after a bad relationship, when you're like, it hurts so much, I don't know if I'll ever be in a relationship against.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think I could, I think I can love again.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, man.
• 47:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm still looking for that idea that I want to bring my expertise and my passion into a little bit too.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Again, the older I get, the and the more I see how this society just doesn't know what to do with aging and with older people.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about the spaces for that, how to tap into wisdom, how to create intergenerational spaces, how to create.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have a friend in Minneapolis, she's involved in a creative aging, um, you know, processing.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, exactly.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had that same room, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, how to creatively age, or how do you bring creativity into that last third of your life, or things like that?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's been percolating a lot with me.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: I also, you know, there's that um it's that test where there's like three dots this way and three dots this way, and it's like, how do you connect the dots without lifting your pen?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing in the instructions that say you can't go beyond the dots.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: People who are like, oh, you're always trying to go so yeah.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now that I'm thinking, I'm trying to think beyond the dots, right?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um how do I go beyond that um that framework?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: How do I think beyond it?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's very tactical things of aging, and of course, the creative, and I'm always in that art space, right?
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: That really is something I'm very passionate about too.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: But how do I not think in this frame?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're asking yourself that.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I would have asked myself that in the beginning of my journey because I think when I started, when I realized, oh, I want to build my own business, it was with a very like it because of what I knew from before, right?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you do X plus Y equals Z.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you make profit.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then along the journey, I've realized it doesn't have to look like that.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: It can look totally different, it can be something different.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of back to that boondubashing, it's like, but that means that you gotta like be willing to like carve it out.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think well, how beautiful that you're asking yourself that now at such an early phase of the journey because that will allow you.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a creative human, so it's not surprising that you're asking yourself that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um, you know, I'll be so to your point in a year when we have this conversation, I cannot wait to see and hear all that you've built or thought of or done.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: And in that vein, the last question that I do ask every woman that comes on the show is around legacy, and but it's with the lens of not the heaviness that of the like, you know, what the whatever like monetary thing that you're gonna leave to your kids.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a what is that you're building towards every day?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you want your legacy to be?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: But from the perspective of what is building a legacy even mean to you, I think is really the question because I think it's really unique for everyone.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when we actually get to ask the question with nuance, we get to hear some really incredible things.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really interested for you.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: What does building a legacy mean to you?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oprah once said we love an Oprah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: That legacy is everyone you connect with, everyone that you touch, right?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you ensure that, and for me, you know, you extrapolate, but like how do you ensure that you connect with people in a constructive, productive growth way, curious even way.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you won't even know the legacy that you're leaving.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: But that smile that you gave somebody, yeah, you know, in the passing in the supermarket.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um helping someone do something.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely believe in helping.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's why I've been so connected with the social sector for so long.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just believe that you know, there are people that give people that take, and it's about being a giver.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's this quote also that I I saw recently, and I just I want to share it because I think that there's something about this that I think reflects a lot of the conversation we've had today.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's a Joan Diddian quote.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love Joan.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not telling you to make the world better.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just telling you to live in it, not just to endure it, not just to suffer it, not just to pass through it, but to live in it, to look at it, to try to get the picture, to live recklessly, to take chances, to make your own work and take pride in it, to seize the moment.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing and so beautiful, and so like how you show up already.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think it's so clear when someone that you meet is living in it and is actually present to it.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you shared that, and I need to get back into some of her work.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're reminding me because I love her, and there's so much about her work that speaks to these moments too, very specifically some of these transitional times.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I appreciate you so much.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so, so, so grateful that you responded to my random ass outreach all those months ago.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're not always that great.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Those connections I've had on LinkedIn and stuff, but I say always reach out, reach out, reach out.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now I get to call you a friend, and I'm so grateful for that.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um thank you again.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And one of these days we'll get to meet in real life, and it's gonna be amazing.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right, friend.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right, bye.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.