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Presence is a Gift: Leading with Humanity in the Age of AI · LeaderSIP: Let's Talk Leadership

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome back to Leader Sip, the podcast where we talk about leadership, life, and whatever's in our cups.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Shannon and I'm Yara.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And before getting started, this is Litter Sip.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing that we're gonna do is to ask the question: what are you sipping on today?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go first.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sipping on my usual uh cacao with almond milk and coconut sugar.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, very on brand for Portland, if you know.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I made my own almond milk.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So and I had one of those mornings where I made this at like in the morning time, and then the day happened, and I didn't get around to drinking it.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So reheated it for this conversation.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's that's a different that's a different thing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Yara?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Since we have spring here, I just decided to have one of this.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a probiotic soda.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what that means at all.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but it's a probiotic soda, it's refreshing, it's good.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um I will ask Tracy, what's in your cup today?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are you sleeping on?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I am um I'm pushing against my own norm today.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm drinking a cold beverage in a mug, which I never do.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: But what I'm drinking is herba mate tea.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a good one.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um because it's been a long day and I need a little a little perk so when it's just flat and it's got a little peach flavor, so nice, refreshing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: In my tea cup.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Tea cup.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's a pun.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking tea for Tracy J.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it is also it is it, yeah.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that actually it is tea for Tracy J.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it gives us so many things, just like Tracy J.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and on that, Tracy, why don't we why don't you introduce yourself, give people a quick version, who you are, why Quiet Rebel background, all of those things.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: My work in the world these days is helping people, primarily leaders, pause before they make decisions so that they don't create harm that they didn't intend to.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing I'm trying the isn't this what the kids are doing to show approval?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But that's okay.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Living and learning, living and learning.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna try that again on the um yeah, and I just have to echo that um I've I've seen Tracy in her work and I've collaborated with her, and I would call her one of my besties.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we communicate like every day via Marco Polo, but um yeah, um I have so much respect for her work, yes, as well.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's amazing.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the work that you're doing in very difficult times, I think that is amazing how you're bringing leadership into different scenarios that I wouldn't thought about it until I see you doing it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh wow, this is amazing.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, same.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're so grateful to have you here, Tracy.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Please know that it's reciprocal and it's mirrored back to you, both of you.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the work that each of you are doing individually and collectively is um impressive and amazing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm happy to be here with y'all.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so with that, let's dive into what the episode is about today.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to talk about what every leader is quietly or out loud wrestling with right now.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe without even naming it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So our episode is called Presence is a Gift Leading with Humanity in the Age of AI.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because AI is taking up more and more real estate in how we work, how we make how do we make sure we don't lose the most powerful thing we actually have, which is ourselves, our presence, our authenticity, and our humanity.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Yara, I'll pass it off to you to.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the idea here is to do this entryway.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So first we can look at some um data together.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then, Tracy, I would love to just hear what you have to say about it, and then we can have the the conversation, the the real conversation about what's happening and also what you bring to the to the table.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I think that we want to start with some numbers.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is one thing that is my preference.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend it, is in terms of talking about AI and what's happening, it is so easy to get just stuck and to get entangled with all the news about AI.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Every day there is an insane amount of news out there.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, my advice is slow down and go to sources that are sources that you trust.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: In your field, doesn't matter what field trust uh trusted sources, so you can get data and not necessarily news because sometimes the news even contradicts each other.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was I I've been reading sometimes news that absolutely contradict each other.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, in this case, um uh we are looking at a document from Association for Talent Development.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: They publish really nice articles and they're open, you don't need to pay for that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: But um one thing that really got my attention was the number.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was 95% of the projects of AI are failing to just bring measurable results.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is the thank you, Shannon.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is the the article, and for me, it's incredible.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about 95%.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I feel and I think that is happening is that we're moving just too fast without taking the time to put in the center of the conversation one of the most important ingredients, the human factor, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we talk so much about the the tool, uh the brands, it doesn't matter, and more and more and more technology.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: My experience working with this for so many years, more than 75% of the process is the human adoption, is how we react.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And 20 to 25 is the tools itself.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I was uh wondering, Tracy, if you can just react to to what we've been seeing in terms of those numbers.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that resonates with you, something that you're seeing out there?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yes.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I um that's a short answer.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in room often where people are discussing AI, um, and sort of as this article alludes to, um, in sort of two ways.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: One as like this mighty new frontier, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like like everybody should be doing AI.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or no, no AI.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: AI is terrible, it's awful, it's killing our brains, like it's taking our jobs, like, right, and there and there are then there are people like me, and I'll only speak for Tracy, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are people like me who are like I'm in the middle of that, right?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know the percentage point of people who are like me who are like, Yes, I know that because humans have a tendency to do bad things, it is possible for the AI that is trained by humans to do bad things.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also because we live in a society that is highly capitalistic, and if people are only looking at the money that can be made from AI, um then that increases data centers and and and challenges to the uh climate and to the environment and all of those really terrible things.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And right, it also speeds productivity, it helps people who think differently, um, it it manages tasks that sometimes task our brains um so that we can have space to do other things.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um as a solopreneur, it's also helpful to me because I can hire an assistant um to help me work through my day um in a way that I couldn't afford right now to pay a person to do.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not to say I don't want to pay a person to do it, but I'm not at that place in my business where I can hire a team.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is allowing me to level the playing field with people who do have teams.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that, Tracy.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there is a bit of, I think that we're we're going into an era where there is a bit of privilege in folks who don't need to lean on AI from my perspective.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you, you know, you you don't necessarily need like a translator, you don't, like you said, solo proto newer, and you don't necessarily like need, you're in a space where you don't need to hire somebody, you don't need to help somebody look at these things.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, it's definitely there's this level of complexity that it's like this tension that I think is really hard for people to hold, and that's why it's either like AI's the worst, or it's like AI is the best, or just like I am not registering anything with AI.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like navigating the space of like holding the tension points between all those things as you as you were saying, Tracy.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I also wanted to say, have you guys ever heard of um I think it's called Javen's Paradox or Jevins Paradox?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically saying, like, when technology increases efficiency, the demand for that particular thing explodes.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, for example, like 10 years ago, I can't remember the name of the man, but he said, like, radiologists don't need them.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: AI is gonna take over, it's all the machines.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then 10 years later, radiology is one of the highest demand in jobs right now because the technology is so accessible, and people like the human aspect now is coming in, and people are are are interacting with that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's also an interesting tidbit to bring into the conversation of like, yes, AI is taking over jobs.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, we know that layoffs have been happening in masses, and I I also have hope for these spaces where it could be increasing and and helping jobs.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that one uh coming from someone that I've been advocating for innovation since the beginning of my career, um, this is this is the thing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel that is more than than having teams, in which team you are.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're again, so you're uh in favor of is finding that middle ground that can benefit productivity and can also make accessible things that were totally unaccessible to some groups.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly appreciate what you share, uh Tracy, saying, Oh, yes, now I I have a way to compete with these big uh corporations that I was totally unable to just get there.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, there is a factor.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And part of me feels that we are in the conversation, just um reacting to what you're saying about like hey, I can't do bad things.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that we're in this moment.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when Y2K.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you are that's only a generation, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if you remember Y2K and that and the internet revolution era, um, I feel that there were at that moment no guardrails.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: The internet was like the wild, wild west.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was everything was happening and we were learning and reacting.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you can commit crimes through this through this tool back in the day.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel that we're in this pivotal moment of putting the guardrails and understanding what's happening to us as humanity with this new tool.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the things that I feel that it's important to bring into the conversation is that it's gonna take time.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: If we remember when we started with the internet, it was not two years after the the internet got like out there and massive that things started to uh policies started to be in place and we started putting restrictions on understanding the things that were beneficial and harm.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel that because of the pace of AI, sometimes we, including me, forget that those things are gonna take time.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of the process of the adoption process of any um new technology.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think another thing that people forget is that AI is not new, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just newly widely accessible.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's been around for a long time, and it's also been a part of our lives for a long time.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've had places like you call your doctor's office and you get this bot that responds, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Press one if you want this, press two if you like that's AI, right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't it, we weren't conditioned to think of it that way, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so when people say, I don't want to use AI, maybe you've been using AI.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Calm down.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's true, it's true.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: CD, hey CD, oh stop, he's reacting.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I said, hey, CD, and my phone is like, what?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tracy, that's such a good point.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually just for the sake of defining things, do we have a definition of of artificial intelligence?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you that you floated that back to my top of my head, and I'm like, oh wait, what?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious, like, what does it even mean?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is artificial intelligence?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we could just ask the AI what it means, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we need to have that exercise.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Can you ask, Jen?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can ask live.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can you ask?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I have my phone here.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, you do it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see if it'll pick it up.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Siri.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Can you define artificial intelligence for us?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: Artificial intelligence means the theory and development of computer systems is able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision making, and translation between languages.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we've been using it since like I came out of the womb.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a great point, Tracy.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: With that, I feel that the human factor is going to be more and more important at the center of the conversation.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that uh you have a product that is very interesting.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is human and it's active, and I cannot wait to learn more about it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so before I share the product, let me go backwards a little bit to describe the why.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Please love that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a framework that I develop and teach.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's called a more human approach.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And human um is uh, as I described earlier in my introduction, it is a decision-making process that helps us pause before we make decisions, um, to consider the humans that are impacted by those decisions, the humans making the decisions and the humans on the other side of them so that we avoid unintended harm rather than having to apologize later for the harm that we've caused.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh so as I've been teaching this framework um and as I've gotten more comfortable using artificial intelligence, uh I trained uh a GPT product to help people navigate the framework um using the technology, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because up until now I've had to be in the room, right, to help people walk through the framework.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I asked, I guess I should also explain the acronym HUMAN stands for honest, urgent, meaningful, accountable, and nuanced.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a question that is associated with each of those letters, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Honesty asks us what really happened.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Urgency is what's most important in this moment.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Meaningfulness is how do we make an uh positive impact on whatever this challenge is that we're facing as opposed to a performative impact.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um accountable is who who's responsible here, who's who's gotta do it.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And nuance is what are we missing?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: What have we missed?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the um custom GPT that I built is called Actively Human and it helps with whatever challenges you're facing, give you the questions that you can ask yourself to navigate before you make a decision.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's I feel like I was just whisked away by your by your words and that whole narrative.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like the human acronym touches it's all of those touch points, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: That we can kind of like slip through the cracks.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you've converted it into an acronym that's like so easy to remember and like, hi, I'm human.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's me, it's me.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's the answer.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Tracy, would you mind with uh explaining how this is showing up in corporations and individuals and how you've witnessed people um interacting with this tool?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in AI, like all of the pieces.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I I actually have most of my experience is with people interacting with the framework outside of the AI.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: The AI is still relatively new.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I launched it in October.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so people are still getting accustomed to it, still learning about it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh but since 2022, I've been teaching this framework so that it's it's been in spaces with real humans and practicing it um for a while now.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and one one of my favorite pieces of feedback is that it helps uh step outside of our emotions because when uh decisions are um uh what's the word I want?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Visceral, um our emotional response typically comes first.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the human, right?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is for our emotions to lead.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and this is a way to to step back from that, not to ignore our emotions, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: But just to integrate them into our decision in a way that's healthy as opposed to automatic.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um also I um I believe because people have said to me that they appreciate that it's a complete thought, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just it's not just our hearts, it's not just our heads, it is not just emotions, it's not just practical, it is all the things that make us human, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes people will be tempted to pull the acronym apart and say, we're gonna focus on the honesty piece, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: But it's designed to be used together, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: To not skip steps, which is the other reason why it it's kind of like it mirrors how we tend to approach one another, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because we wanna take the parts of it that we like um and then forget about the other parts.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: We can't do the honesty piece and not talk about accountability, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: They you we gotta do all of them.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like the the complexity that we were talking about on the front end, like we just our brains wanna go to like what's right in front of us and easily tangible, but that human piece is like wait, there's so much complexity there.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can I can I handle that?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we also sometimes uh have the misconception that uh that if I pause that that's going to um delay something for some extended amount of time.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I like I don't have time to I don't have time to pause and think about it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: But do you have time to go clean up the mess that you're about to make because you didn't pause?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like where do you want to spend your energy?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And also this doesn't have to take long.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's five questions and once you get in the practice of asking those five questions, the questions come automatically.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one thing that I want to to ask you, um, Tracy, because Undeniable, there is a lot of efficiency in implementing AI in the spaces.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you say to those leaders that said to you, like, yes, I want and want AI, and I want to bring that active human to the table, but I want AI because I need efficiency, and I can see from the business perspective, ours as a business, I use it in my business because it brings a lot of efficiency.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: How you address those two needs, that is efficiency and speed, and also the human factor, and also keeping it actively, as you say, actively human.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you have both at the same time?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's that, how you how you manage to do that with your clients?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I live in a yes and world.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think I love that.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think both.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think the answer to most questions like that is yes and.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Which uh he's been telling me my whole life.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and basically it means what's in you is gonna come out.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we are in a practice of rushing for the sake of rushing, right, and skipping steps that need to happen because that's what we do, then the results on the other side will reflect that.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: But also if we get in a practice of pausing intentionally, thinking through the decision and coming to the other side of it with something practical and humane, then that's what will come out of us.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it it nothing is efficient at first, nothing, nothing we do starts out efficiently.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: It comes with practice and it comes with saying, Oh, this worked really well when I did it this way.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let me continue to do it that way.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or, oh wait, we made a complete train wreck when we went this way.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let's not do that again.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: It comes with the efficiency comes with learning.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's that brings up this paradox of AI like overtaking the world because we're like, oh, we don't have to have mistakes anymore.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the machine's gonna like take care of it for us.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like that's no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna like, yes, I've I heard somebody saying, um, like, yes, it will increase our productivity, but it will also scale our mistakes if we're not taking those those times to pause.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I love hearing you talk about this, Tracy.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's the thing I know that Yara uses this in her business as well, but in in rooms, we this is the main principle.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is like of all high-performing teams, they're able to pause, slow down to speed up instead of start fast to work slow.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because and and I think that leaders are it's a muscle, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as you're saying, practice.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's we can't just like listen to a podcast or have one training and be like, nail the I have a six pack.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the gym today and I have a six pack.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what was my strategy.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I heard about the human acronym, and like that's all I need, right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like it does, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, another thing I want to make sure I mention about the human framework, whether it's human to human or using the actively human platform, is that it's designed intentionally designed for questions, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Most times people go to AI, they're asking for answers.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: When you use actively human, it's going to give you questions.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you are forced to pause.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: It is not answering the question for you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: It is not telling you here's the solution to your problem that you just put in.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is here's what you should be thinking about before you make this decision.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that framework, yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love more questions.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And even um now, more and more, I can see, for example, um, you have Claude, that when you uh ask for something, it will bring a bunch of questions back.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel that it's a natural evolution, is ask more questions and you will get more answers instead of give me the answer straight away.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I really love, I know that you've been working in this for a long time.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I really love that that you were able to see in the future that that was the obvious evolution of question more questions and not necessarily going straight to have a lot of of answers.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a quick question for you, Tracy.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's actively human, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: How that actively word got in there?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I uh wanted a word that indicates how I want people to use this tool, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the framework is already human, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's the it's the human framework.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I want people to think when they're about to make a decision to be active in that approach, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And to remember that they have this tool at their disposal, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we um unless we're prompted or reminded, we forget, oh, I I have something here that can help me with that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I I just I wanted to give it a name that reminded people that it was there, um, out of sight, out of mind.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we're always thinking, like, how do I want to approach this next decision in an actively human way?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I also have a question that I know there isn't like a tidy answer to.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just in terms of yes, we've discussed how AI is helping humanity and leveling the playing field, and people that didn't have access to like coding or whatever can create an app now and have a chance to sell products online.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you think, Tracy, about the environmental impact and like the the theft of AI like taking from artists?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm just curious how you hold that tension point, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know we're all about humanity, and we also know that like there's a cost, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Of of what yeah, AI is bringing in droves.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let let me be very clear AI is not stealing from artists.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Humans who want to use AI are stealing from artists.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: AI is not killing the planet.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Humans who want to exploit AI are killing the planet.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So this is not an AI problem, this is a human problem.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the way to to mitigate those problems is to check the humans who are on the side on the side of those things.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, and how do you see that unfolding?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do we how do we do that?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: My uh my most honest answer is that I this is a pendulum that's swinging.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um kind of like most evolutions that happen.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: The pendulum is gonna swing all the way one way before it swings back.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it may feel incredibly worse before it feels better.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um and also it takes those of us who care about those kinds of things to never shut up about it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And to remind people how to be human in these moments and how to um think actively about uh the potential harm that could come um as we're making decisions, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: As a as an individual solopreneur subscriber to these platforms, right?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: My$20 a month assistant that I've hired over here, right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the personal power to change the global impact of AI, right?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I can watch the news, I can pay attention to the way that the corporations are putting out products, and I can vote with my dollars, right?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can also voice my concerns and my opinions to the people who with whom I spend my dollars.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and although frankly, like my actively human is built in Chat GPT, right?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Which is in itself problematic.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I am right now trying to figure out how do I move that thought leadership into a different, less harmful environment.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: So this is an ongoing challenge, ongoing, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, it's as you said, it's not a uh something with a neat bow around it, right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not I I don't have an easy solution to the problem.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: All I can say is that like as I learn more, as we know better, we do better.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yara, do you have anything to add to that?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think that that's uh thank you for sharing that, uh Tracy, because most of the time um is the speed of things.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we have this afterthought um of like, oh, oh wait, oh, this is happening.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Started happening in the data centers back in the day.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, oh, this is an amazing tool.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then what can we do with this data?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've becoming more and more efficient.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um I really like that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Keep keep an eye on what's happening.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: More and more we hear um the companies airing out their policies and what they want to do.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So more and more is accessible out there that information and make a decision what company and what AI is more aligned with your values.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding that, as we were saying, is not the AI, is the policies behind it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, and sometimes uh companies and and other organizations say, like, I don't have a choice, but it's okay.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: I we can understand that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is part of the evolution part of the process.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and having awareness, I feel that is the first step, as you're saying.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just have that awareness, go out there.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I'm not saying don't look at the news, please look at the news, but also look for sources.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as you were uh again communicating, look for sources so you can have real information, data, what's happening, and make a decision there.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you can one of the the good things with with AI is that right now, as powerful as it is, you can see that it's evolving with us as humans.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can compare the ChatGPT from what two years ago, and I compare all the other companies, including ChatGPT, and you can see the human intervention there, like all the things that are happening more and more.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I'm I'm absolutely positive that that's the best way to go.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just keep an eye.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are open about those policies more and more because we're requesting it, so keep an eye.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's kind of it's throughout humanity, how many industrial revolutions have we been through when it's been like humanity is coming to an end?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was it with when books when the the paper press was invented?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh my god, everybody is going to wait, their minds are going to rot when they just sit and read all day, and like the environmental impact of all this paper.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yes, as you say, Tracy, yes, and like we're going to get more efficient because we need to demand it as well.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I heard a similar uh comparison to how um painters reacted when photography came around.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, like the the technology of taking pictures really changed the the business of being an artist, right?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it also opened an avenue for painters to do things that were more creative, right?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, and for people to capture moments in a very different way than we could before, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so not all the evolution is bad, right?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: We can it it can be it can be more than one thing, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we're messy, like humans.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, we're so messy.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: We need we need to like go through a whole mess of things before we can have anything be tiny, like emotionally, personally, company, global, like all of it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's all a process.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, learning is like that, it's just the learning nature.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: We need to broke things sometimes, to just like oopsie, that don't do it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that um giving us time and being gentle in terms of hey leaders, you don't need to have all these answers.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: AI is new, and hey leaders, it's okay to have questions.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that my message to leaders out there, managers out there, it's okay that you don't have all the answers about AI.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're all learning and putting that pressure sometimes is not even fair because we don't know what's gonna happen with AI in two, three years.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't know.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're learning as we go.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, my message to leaders and managers be gentle on yourself.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay not to have all the all the questions, it's okay to ask for help.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: More and more I see the adoption situation, right?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: We want to just speed to the process.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And is that that feeling of I'm I'm behind?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to many leaders, and many times they say, like, I just feel behind, like a dinosaur.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so is that let's let's see what how much of that information is facts and how much of that information is reaction to the hype and to all the news that are out there.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's my my two cents, two only two, my two cents um to leaders and manager managers out there.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay not to have all the answers about AI right now.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and too, I know that we're heavily focused on like data and statistics.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as a social scientist myself, the way people are reacting is data as well.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like and us as leaders, we need to really pay attention to that and not ignore it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as you're saying, you're like not just ignore, like go for the hype, like pause as we're saying, like the theme here, pause, listen, and like and then make informed decisions moving forward.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think also like we we also forget is that like we're wanting people to take on our logic, right?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just because I'm ready for a thing doesn't mean that my the people on my team are ready for it, right?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you're yeah forcing people, I'm not saying people shouldn't step outside their comfort zone because we have to step outside our comfort zone because that's where we grow, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: But also you shouldn't be bulldozed outside your comfort zone, right?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, that's a little intense, yeah.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little intense, right?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can see.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tracy, and that reminds me, I remember you said this, you said this to me years ago, and it just like stuck in my brain.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because Tracy also does um anti-racism work and and does a lot of that that work in that space.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was expressing remorse, just sadness about people in my life not being at the same place that I was in terms of my knowledge of what was going on and racism and systemic racism.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Tracy, you were like, isn't it a bummer when some people aren't in like the same place in their learning journey as we are?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wisdom, because it's like, yeah, we're all here learning.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're just like indifferent, we're scattered across different areas on the spectrum because of our life circumstances, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't expect everybody to care about things in the same way that we do.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Even though, gosh.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're because they have completely somebody was just sharing this.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember if I read it or if I heard you know how you how you just get information from places and you don't know where it came from.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody was sharing recently that like it's because everybody's brain is literally different, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Everything that's in your brain is because of all the experiences that you've had up to this point, right?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah no one shares that same set of experiences with you.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: So our brains are literally different.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us to assume that anybody is having the same thought that we're having at the same time is ludicrous because no one is.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: It might be a similar thought, it might be a complementary thought, but it is not the same thought because our brains are literally different.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: So true.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're moving to the one of my favorite parts of the podcast.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're moving to the rapid fire questions.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready, Tracy?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one human quality that AI will never replace empathy.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, household.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because um I believe in order to be empathetic, you have to literally have been able to have those experiences or to to emb have and have an idea of what those experiences could be, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know sympathy and empathy get confused all the time, and like sympathetic is you know, because you have actually lived it, and empathetic is like I just feel for you because I feel for you.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I I don't I don't think that any machine can ever learn to express empathy in the way that comes with being human.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Good one.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hold up.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Good answer.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, next round.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh who is a leader that embodies humanity for you, real or fictional?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is a good question.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're putting me on the spot here because I gotta name names.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um can we go to the next rapid fire question and I'll come back and answer that one?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a thing?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a thing.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a thing.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a thing.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um finish this sentence.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: Presence is the gift because presence is a gift because humans are wired for community.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um we need each other.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: We we need solitude from time to time, but we are not built for isolation.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: And being able to offer your presence to someone else is a gift because we literally need each other to survive.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can ask you another question or we can go back to you.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Ask me another question.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm still noodling on my own.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one thing you tell your younger self about showing up authentically.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, oh, that's another really good question, too.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've had a lot of conversations with my younger self um as at this age, um, because I think she she needed to be healed from some inauthenticity inauthenticity, however you say that word.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: Some non-authenticity.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um maybe there's a couple of things.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: The first the first thing that's coming to mind is nobody knows you like you know you.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so like you don't have to pretend to be like any other person.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like who you are is absolutely sufficient and magical.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and trying to be like other people back to our sort of brain thing, right?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's impossible because nobody else has your brain and nobody else has the experiences that you've had to get you to this point.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: So and actually showing up as yourself is the easiest thing to do.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, 'cause then you don't have to remember who you are, right?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're putting on culture right.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: I spent a lot of time in theater space.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you you're putting on a costume and you're showing up as a character, like you've got to remember those lines.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta remember the whole backstory that came with that person, right?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: But if you should show up as yourself, there's nothing to remember.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of people.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: My God, me too.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love that too.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna like I'm gonna sit in that response for a little while.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I loved it.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask the last question, um, and then and then we can move from there.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're the quiet rebel.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And since day one, I was like, oh, interesting.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: The quiet rebel.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what's the most rebellious thing act lately for the quiet rebel in the professional arena?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um the most rebellious thing lately for the quiet rebel is oh, not answering my phone when it rings.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's rebellious.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um is is actually not performing.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's a lot of temptation to perform, to um to package my materials in a particular way, to dress a certain way, to speak a s a certain language, all of those things.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm not going to do it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: I am absolutely determined to show up as myself, which is part of why I work for myself, so that I can show up as myself.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and all money is not good money.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I want to get paid and I want to get paid well for the work that I do, but I'm not willing to compromise who I am to earn a dollar.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Ask me the leadership question again.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think I have an answer, maybe.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look at look at Tracy J.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's able to answer questions and think about it deeply and profoundly while also thinking about them.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Loading all their stuff.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's a large language model.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she's a AI.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe yeah, maybe she's AI.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a large, maybe she's a large language model.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: She can think and and answer at the same time.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have to see if anybody thinks you're you're artificial to this.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: A leader who embodies humanity for you, real or fictional?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: A leader who embodies humanity, humanity for me, real or fictional.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um my uh brazen answer is Tracy J.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh blah blah.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, sometimes you're like you, you, you, you do a thing, right?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: And people say, for instance, I published a novel like 20 years ago.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and at the time, Terry McMillan was like the the most popular black author that people everybody was reading her.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, Oh, are you the next Terry McMillan?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, No, I'm the first Tracy J.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um so so whenever we do things, right, that people are familiar with, they automatically want to put us in a category that they already understand.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have lived the majority of my life not being in a category that most people understand, and I'm okay with that.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: My um sort of secondary answer, which probably normally would have been my first answer, is Harriet Tubman.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because she's just a like a personal hero for me, but also because she was a leader at a time when black women weren't thought of as leaders.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she did so um despite all the obstacles facing her, despite uh personal handicaps, despite um everything that was coming against her, despite even the people who she was trying to help rejecting her, um she still managed to do everything she did.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that um so often right now leaders have to push past so many obstacles.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um especially those of us who think outside of normal parameters.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: We have to push past the the uh preconceived notions about who we are in the world, the um the obstacles that stand in our way, the people who we're trying to help who don't know that they need our help.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um are planned out rejecting what we're offering.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that would be that would be my my secondary answer.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you brought a secondary answer to the table.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, this was everything.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for the work that you're doing out there, and thank you so much for bringing it here today and share it um with us.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been thank you for taking us to so many different corners of complexity.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, as usual, just you know, the conversationalist.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for your time and looking forward to more.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe we'll have you back someday.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you'll have us.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: I am so silly excited for leadership.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um excited to see where this goes.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm really grateful for this invitation and thank y'all.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, until next time.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe and please share with um another leader that you think that will benefit from this.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're gonna keep bringing new leaders to the table.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna bring leaders from all around the world, and we're so excited to share um all these ideas, funny moments with you.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So please make sure that you click and subscribe and all to the next leadership.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go, Tracy, how do people find you if they want to find you?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: As I sip.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: The best way to find me is at my website, which is the quietrebel.org.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: In the the YouTube channel.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always hand and happy to connect with people there.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, until next time.