Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 535: The Fight to Save Hunting

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Ep. 535: The Fight to Save Hunting · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
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  Speaker 3: And Noble Online. Hope to see you at the show.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Welcome everybody.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: We got two shows in one today because we're joined
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: by Dan Gates to talk about what's going on the topic,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: as Krin wrote, it is what's going on in Colorado.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: We're gonna get into what's going on in Colorado, which
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: if you're at Colorado, how do you.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Like to say that, Brody Coloradin, you're a.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Colorado you especially want to stay tuned. But if you're
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: just a general American, you'll want to stay tuned as well,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: because what we're gonna talk about going on in Colorado
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: has implications for what's going on in America.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: So stay tuned for that. But first the first part
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: of the show.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And then we're gonna we're gonna hear, We're gonna hear
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: a little bit from Jannis about a recent adventure. Ryan
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Callahan's here, Brody Henderson's here. Randall, Doctor Randall's here with
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: a brain, new hair, been cutting his own hair, yep,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: learned how to cut his own hair.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: Learning to cut my own learning.
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  Speaker 5: Because he's gonna take us through that process step by step.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're actually doing a video series.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: I love that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And uh, the star of the show part one, Remember
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I said this is two shows and one. The star
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: of show part one is Connor Smith.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: How old are you? Connor?
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: Sixteen?
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  Speaker 2: Sixteen? Connor Smith's sixteen years old. His mother, Alyssa, is
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: a colleague of ours, and he I've been hearing about.
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  Speaker 3: This killed himself a big old bull.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah it's uh.
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  Speaker 2: At a Christmas party. Your mom showed me a picture
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  Speaker 2: of it. And normally people are showing me pictures of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: big bulls. That's just in one ear and out the other.
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  Speaker 2: But I took note because one because you're her kid
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and not like the neighbor's cousin's friend, which is a
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  Speaker 2: lot of the big bulls you see, And two because
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: you kind of you did it real scrap you, like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: thirty ninth biggest bull ever killed in Montana?
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  Speaker 7: About Yeah, what do you mean about might get kicked out?
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're gonna get kicked out.
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: My dad wants to shoot one bigger than me.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you meant there was a like a
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: legal problem you were faced with or something like it
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: wasn't seasoned or something.
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  Speaker 2: No, oh, so you're legit. Okay, tell me now. You
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: were telling me the story earlier, and I cut you
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  Speaker 2: off because you got to the part about your guns
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: stopping working, and that's not a thing I usually hear
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: about firearms. So how did your tell me your gun
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  Speaker 2: lay out?
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  Speaker 8: Here?
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  Speaker 7: Well, I had a three hundred that where we have
• 4:46
  Speaker 7: two three hundreds, one that my grand we were both
• 4:48
  Speaker 7: my grandfather gave me and so.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Your parents are tight. Yeah, you got two old grandpa guns.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: M hm okay, I'm picturing.
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: And uh the first one I've been using for a
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: couple of years now. It's like I don't know how
• 5:04
  Speaker 7: old it is, but we brought it to the shooting
• 5:07
  Speaker 7: range and it just kept shooting like inconsistently. Got it like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 7: I think there's something wrong with the chambering. That's what
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: my grandfather kept keeps telling me.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. So it's deep within the bowels of the gun.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: It's not like a loose scope mount or something.
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh yeah, a week before the hunt, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: had a change to my dad's that's not my granddad's.
• 5:30
  Speaker 7: That's not my dad's, and then I used that.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: For the hunt. So these are three hundred wind bags. Yeah, okay,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I got it. So then you got tuned in and I'd.
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: Probably call it like yours now because it's not like
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: anybody else wants to use that gun, because it's like
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: you got the biggest ball with it.
• 5:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Well, maybe it's got good mojo so jiju whatever that
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: might be.
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: It does, but it might just be connors.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: So gramps passes down one gun to you and one
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: gun to his kid, your dad. Yeah okay, and then
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: you get the one that Graham's now thinks is shoddy,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: so you take the old man's gun.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah okay. And then you got to have a spot
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: where you're going hunting. So it taught me through that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Don't give me the spot, but like, tell me through
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: your your process here.
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: Well, I've going into last year. I had three points
• 6:18
  Speaker 7: and my dad put me in for a special pull
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: elk tag.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: And I got your three bonus points.
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, eleven chance odds.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: You see, Cow's getting excited now.
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  Speaker 2: Cal likes any story about youngsters with lots of points
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  Speaker 2: drawing sweet tags man.
• 6:34
  Speaker 9: Taking opportunities away from him.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: That's his favorite. That's his absolute favorite genre of saying no.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: But you know, talking uh, talking with your mother. I
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: know that the family puts some sweat equity in out there.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't just told, okay, continue on.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: His dad was dragging him out of like banned class
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: that he'd rather be at because his dad did all
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: the work.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, alright, so just okay, I'm sorry to me.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Interre up. So you got you got into a special unit.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh, I like got home from school one
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  Speaker 7: day and.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, back, you didn't do any scouting or anything.
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: Well, we've been scouting out there before.
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  Speaker 7: And uh, I got home and my dad showed me
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  Speaker 7: the draw odds and I drew the tag.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Gotcha okay?
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: And roughly what were the odds of you drawing the tag?
• 7:26
  Speaker 7: Do you remember?
• 7:29
  Speaker 8: Got it?
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So it's the area you're you're familiar with, very
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: familiar with. Oh, how's this? Are you very familiar?
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: We've been hunting out there a couple of times.
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  Speaker 3: So family members have drawn, well.
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: Not really, just we've been like shed hunting out there
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  Speaker 7: and like scouting for an out tag.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, just pre scout, just in case, just getting familiar
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  Speaker 3: with the area. Yeah, got okay, Okay, So then what happens?
• 7:55
  Speaker 7: Uh, Well, we scouted all the summer through the summer
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: spring and all that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: And they kept going up there and checking in on it.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah exactly, And we found a couple of sheds and yeah,
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: going into the season, we went a couple of days
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  Speaker 7: before and we saw a bowl, a really nice ball.
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  Speaker 7: It was a big five point actually, and uh we
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  Speaker 7: scouted him, put him to the bed and waited for
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: the morning opening morning, and we woke up that morning.
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: Did you have a goal? It's like, how big of
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: a bull you're looking for?
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  Speaker 7: Basically the first solid bull I found he killed.
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  Speaker 6: Before before I've killed two bulls and one cow?
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  Speaker 3: Sweet? What ye doing?
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  Speaker 5: What regular?
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: Just regular hunting?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and did any of those come uh during the
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: youth season when you could?
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  Speaker 3: There's no youth elk Oh, it's just deer, birds and turkeys, dude.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: If there's a youth olt, yeah, I know.
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  Speaker 8: I have more kids.
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  Speaker 5: That's why I would have.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Never gotten the vast ectomy.
• 9:13
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I have to have them on.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: Pot coached you up properly on on how these conversations
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: can go and how not to give away your landmarks.
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  Speaker 5: And he's doing super good.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got nothing to go off. Well, no, I
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  Speaker 2: do three points eleven percent odd. It's a real sharp feller.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have pointed that out.
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you've done more.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Someone real sharp on math with a sharp pencil. Gone
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and blueball ad out Phil.
• 9:43
  Speaker 7: We Uh we watched this bowl at all?
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: Opening?
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we watched it. Why not go get it because
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: you're just holding off.
• 9:51
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there was some other competition in the area too,
• 9:54
  Speaker 7: Just like there's a lot of like ravines and stuff
• 9:57
  Speaker 7: that these both this elk herd could have gone there.
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: So we just watched them and we're trying to watch
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: where they were going to go.
• 10:04
  Speaker 9: So he was with that, He wasn't solo, he was
• 10:06
  Speaker 9: with other out.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what's competition made from hunters?
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: Hunters?
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I see, okay, and uh.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: We watched these bulls.
• 10:14
  Speaker 7: We like rushed this bowl and like this group of cows,
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: and we watched them for a little bit, ran over
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: to like where we thought they were going to come
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: out at. And uh and you're hunting with your old man, Yeah,
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: is gramps there?
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: No, just my dad and my little brother.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Okay and uh little brothers how old he is?
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Fourteen thirteen?
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Much help?
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: He's a little a little bit.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, don't feel bad about not knowing ages. I
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: just give a height on most most younger folks.
• 10:45
  Speaker 7: So yeah, and uh, we watched these out come out
• 10:50
  Speaker 7: of this like ravine. I think the first opportunity I
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: had was that like five hundred and twenty three yards
• 10:56
  Speaker 7: at this five point.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: You're so precise and know exactly where he was.
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: Watched them. We watched him for a little bit.
• 11:06
  Speaker 7: I thought I could get closer and he ended up
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: going into the timber out of sight. So we had
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: to wrap around and see if we could find him again.
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: And we we didn't know where they went, and we
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: thought they crossed the way and stuff, and we kind
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: of just walked around and we heard a bugle. M
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: heard a bugle like maybe fifty yards from us, and
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: what time of day it's about.
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: It was about like maybe seven eight.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Ish fifty yards away.
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh, they definitely spooked because we heard some
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: running in the trees and stuff.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And also maybe the kyles spooks and that made the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: bull bugle because he's like, where's everybody going kind of thing, okay.
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: And uh, we kind of just followed those tracks up
• 11:53
  Speaker 7: this little this little hillside and we topped the ridge
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: and there was just a bowl like in the middle
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: of like all these trees. There's like one open patch and.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: Just a ball or just the bull.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: The bull all right, not the five point not the
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: five point whole different bawl, Yeah, a whole different didn't
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: know you know about him, but he's the one that
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: ripped a bugle probably presumably.
• 12:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't know. And just like in the middle
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: of like this all these trees. There's like one little
• 12:22
  Speaker 7: open patch of like grass and stuff. And he was
• 12:26
  Speaker 7: just standing there and I told my uh my dad
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: and my little brother to get down, and.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: You told them to get down. Yeah they spotted it.
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah they didn't see it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Humh okay, and uh yeah, he kept had to feel good.
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: He tried to keep walking.
• 12:44
  Speaker 7: He didn't.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: He didn't believe me on the shoulder.
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah, get down, yeah yeah, and uh. He got out
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: the spotting scope and I kind of sat up on
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: this rock with my gun like looking at the bowl,
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: and he was like, it's at six hundred and eighty
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: nine yards.
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: And I was like, I got a whole another week
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: of the hunt.
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: Might as well try to pull the trigger and uh.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Hold it back up that that contradicts. Yeah, yeah, No,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: you have a whole nother week of the hunt, so
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: might as well pull the trigger.
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: If I missed, then I got I got enough. I
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: got another week.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Because I could hear you finishing that sentence by saying, uh,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: we got a whole nother.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Week of the hunt.
• 13:27
  Speaker 8: Let's not pull the trick.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: So let's not pull the truck. Let's wait. So You're like,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: we got a whold of the week of the hunt.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: So let's take a shot.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, are you a holdover guy or you dialing a holdover?
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: Uh huh.
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: And it's it's like a little Christmas tree scope. It's
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: got what is it, five notches on it. The farthest
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: goes a six hundred, but there's like this little notch
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: at the very end that I used for seven hundred.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, and you do a little bit long long distance shooting.
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: No, that was the first time I've ever sat that far.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, go on.
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: So I missed the first shot and the ball just
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: stood there like nothing happened, and.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: You're using your little extra post. Yeah again, Then what happened?
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: My Dad's like, shoot again, shoot again?
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: See where you hit?
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he was like, you missed high And I was like, okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: I got to readjust for wind and all that, and
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: uh shot again, high backed him and his like back
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: legs dropped and he just kind of stood there again.
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: And my Dad's like, float another one and shoot and
• 14:29
  Speaker 7: I did double lung dum bam.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: He kind of walked off to the trees and bedded
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: down after that, and then what happened. We walked up
• 14:38
  Speaker 7: to him and he was dead. Yeah, just laying there.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: And at what point did you go like, my goodness,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: that's a big old bull.
• 14:45
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: When I got walked up to him, I didn't when
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: I shot, I didn't see like how big he was.
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: I saw like the back whale tail and just was
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: like that's enough for me to see how.
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah it no ground shrinkers. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's like that,
• 15:00
  Speaker 8: that's not the five point the uncommon ground groath.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: And we walked up to it and we we kind
• 15:07
  Speaker 7: of talked about it. We thought it was in the
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: three seventy range. Huh, and we got it scored a
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: couple of weeks ago at three eighty seven net and
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: then three ninety three.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Gross. Oh that's wild. Get out here, all right, dismissed.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, gave us a lot to think about. Connor, thank you.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I've killed I've killed two balls that would that would
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: fit under that three nineties.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there, that's pretty incredible.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So now you realize here's the problem you're going
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to face now as you grow older, you might you
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: probably already got the biggest helk you'll ever get.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: You realize that, Yeah, okay, you can't feel that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I've been told by a lot of people that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: People like to point out out. Is it as the
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: older people to point that out?
• 16:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well I think some of them are sitting around the.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Table right now.
• 16:04
  Speaker 8: I did in the hallway out there.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: That makes older people feel better.
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: I've been told I'm ruined for the rest of my life.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me give you piece of advice.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: We had a dude, There was a dude that named
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Dustin Huff that was on the show and he killed uh.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's what is the biggest typical typical biggest
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: typical white tail in America meaning not in Canada. Yeah, okay,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: because there's a bigger one there.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: He's number two on the continent.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: So number two on the continent, number one in America,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: which is what really matters. Yeah, we're all Americans here.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: He uh.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: When he set out that day he set out to kill,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: he was like, my goal was to kill a personal best, okay, yeah,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: and a personal best for him I can't remember. He
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: had killed like a one thirty white tail, so he
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: was looking for a personal best. So then he kills
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: this thing that you know, we'll never be seen again. Yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, what is your attitude now? Because
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: you're like a personal best hunter. And he said, I'm
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: going to go back to where I was before I
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: killed that bart, So he had to just you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: ignore that one and then plow ahead. Yeah, which is
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: probably how you're gonna want to approach things.
• 17:23
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: It'd be like your rifle range right where you get
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: a nice group and then there's one that flies off
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: to the side. Yeah, and you just kind of that's
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: an outlier.
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: Yeah, when you're shooting and you go home after a
• 17:37
  Speaker 10: good shot, I go down there shoot again because I
• 17:39
  Speaker 10: might have one of them strays, and then I have
• 17:41
  Speaker 10: to go home feeling worse.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: You could also just.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: Get really into uh general tag hunting. You have your
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: your draw best, then you have your general tag.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: That's a good way to look at it, Toude.
• 17:50
  Speaker 9: He's got time to draw all kinds of good tags.
• 17:54
  Speaker 9: Sheep goat moves all that.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: But you saw some other hunters. Yeah, you're hunting on
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: public land? Yes or no?
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, hunting on public land.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: It's awesome other hunters.
• 18:04
  Speaker 8: Yeah, what was the elevation? I can remember?
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: Congratulations, man, where it's in my garage right now? You
• 18:16
  Speaker 7: can get stuffed the hides at the taxidermist.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Right now, you getting stuff.
• 18:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we're gonna get a shoulder mountain where you gonna
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: hang it? Uh, probably like the living room.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: You got a place big enough for that.
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: We talked about it. We have to move a mount
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: a full body mountain goat for.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: It out of the way. Whose mountain goat is it
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: my dad's.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't take that personally.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: If you don't, if you run out of room, you
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: can hang it down here in the office.
• 18:45
  Speaker 7: I might have to do that.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Man, we'll put a little plaque up.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, nobody's gonna walk in the house and talk about
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: dad's goat anymore. Right, Well, what's that.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Who's paying to get it stuffed?
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: My parents?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: That's nice though, That is who you're gonna have stuff it?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Do you know yet?
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: Uh, that's a guy down in Belgrade.
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: It's uh Terry.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Sure he does good work.
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he does a good job. Yeah, he's done my
• 19:11
  Speaker 7: dad's mountain goat, and uh he's done in my dad's
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: mule deer.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: A lot of those guys are weird. Ohs man Taxdermist,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I've even I even talked about that with tax Ermis.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's like not me. But they're like a
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: lot of them. Yeah.
• 19:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he's a funny guy though, is Heny like good? Yeah,
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: he's he's fun to talk humorous.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, got it great. Well, thanks for coming in, man, Yeah,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: thanks for having me on. Congratulations. Thanks, that's pretty great.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah you can head out this year obviously, you turkey man. Yeah, okay,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: you like to fish, Yeah, okay, let us know next
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: time something good happens.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: To you, but it's shed hunting season, like that's that's
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: what these guys do.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: If you're into that.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that wasn't thing when I was a kid.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Pick you picked them up, but no one had a
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: word for it. You just found an antler. No one
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: like went anywhere to find an antler. Just if you
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: found one, you brought it home. Everyone was a shad lunder.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: They just didn't know it. Yeah, there's no term for it,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you know. No, I didn't kind of like parkour.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: You know, people used to just jump off trash cans
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: They didn't know what it was.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, next time you get have something good
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: or if something real bad happens, you come check us out.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: I want to hear it. Next year. I want you
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: to come down and talk about getting your ass kicked
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: at something.
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: Oh, I probably will.
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: I'm gonna try archery hunting this year.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Come tell us about missing one or hitting one in
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: the leg and can't find it yard shots.
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: For that, I'll probably miss high on one.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was eighty three yards A buddy, thanks, you
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: can stick around.
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: I'll stick stick around you.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Where are you supposed to be in school? SI? Obviously? Yeah?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Well gradient jor okay, but you got excused.
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: No, I'm just playing.
• 21:07
  Speaker 8: What's sick the dentist?
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, buzzman high?
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Where's that at? That's what my kid's going to.
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: It's the that's the old one it is.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it'll be done. Yes, yere. He'll like all
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: that stuff about yardages and calibers. That's there. That's like
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: his peer group as they're interested in.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like Johnny shot a elk at six and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: twenty yards with a I'm like, where were they?
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Was it a big bull? I don't know.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Everything is calibers and distances. Uh, all right, Yanni, you're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: gonna tell something.
• 21:46
  Speaker 11: Yeah, you're gonna share it. Are a cotell his story?
• 21:50
  Speaker 11: You're there, chip In.
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: I had a lot of people that I just just
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: got back from pheasant Fest, a lot of people asking
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: about how Mingus is doing.
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know where.
• 21:59
  Speaker 11: We must have talked about it somewhere else or someone
• 22:01
  Speaker 11: did because word got out.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: He got mentioned, It was mentioned briefly on Trivia, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: we kind of danced around it on the last Meet episode.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Oh hey, let me tell you something that Pat said first,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Pat Diurkin. Pat Dirkin wrote in Hi, Stephen Crinn, I
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: enjoyed the Meat Eater podcast with CJ Box, especially the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: shots at copy editors, probably because I am one. He
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: goes on, I'm sure you know Samuel Clemens. That's Mark
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Twain to you.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Uh, not ill literate, not literary folks.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you know Mark Twain didn't like editors either. Oh,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I see what he's doing here. He uses Samuel Clemens
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: and then uses Mark Twain. I keep this Mark Twain
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: quote taped above my desk. It's from a nineteen to
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: six letter to Henry mills Alden and was printed in
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: the Chicago Daily Tribune. Twain and says, how often we
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: recall with regret that Napoleon once shot at a magazine
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: editor and missed him and killed a publisher. But we
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: remember with clarity. No, but we remember with charity that
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: his intentions were good and he says, also, don't bury
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: outdoor newspaper columnists yet, please wait till I die. I'm
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: still cranking out my weekly column for eight Wisconsin newspapers.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I started the column in nineteen eighty four while at
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the Oshkosh Daily Northwestern and haven't missed a week since.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I also posted on my website for the Freeloaders Last
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: of a Dying Breed that we were.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Talking about, like like when you you're a kid, I'd
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: like the dude at the Skiing Chronicle. I wish I can
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: remember his name, Bob's.
• 23:54
  Speaker 9: Every Sunday you're excited to open the pap.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: He'd profile attacks at Ermist. He'd be like, they're getting
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: big perch yep, you know, off of the late Michigan Pier.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: The next week it'd be here's a great venison meat
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: low for Resbee. Just every Saturday, man. And that was
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: like the only outdoor media we took in ye was
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: that dude's column.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: Well, I wonder if even there is an outdoor section.
• 24:17
  Speaker 11: I've gotten a newspaper and so long, but I remember,
• 24:19
  Speaker 11: like the Gazette Kalamazoo Gazette had an outdoor section on Saturday, Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Which is weird because Saturday is the day you're hunting
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: and fishing.
• 24:27
  Speaker 9: A lot of papers have gotten rid of them billings.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I think still has one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: to an outdoor guy at one of the papers and
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: he was not happy about digital media. I can tell you,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: all right, go.
• 24:37
  Speaker 11: Ahead a couple Actually, I think it's three weeks ago now.
• 24:44
  Speaker 11: Steve and I took our kids on a little snowmobiling
• 24:49
  Speaker 11: cat hunting adventure and not long into our morning, really,
• 24:55
  Speaker 11: probably less than an hour into our snowbiling adventure, you
• 24:58
  Speaker 11: cut a fresh boxcat track. We had incredibly fresh snow, yeah,
• 25:03
  Speaker 11: real fresh, real fresh snow, like it had probably only
• 25:05
  Speaker 11: quit snowing right at daylight or maybe even after. And
• 25:08
  Speaker 11: so any you know track that we're gonna cut was
• 25:11
  Speaker 11: gonna be pretty fresh. And this sucker, I mean it
• 25:13
  Speaker 11: might have been filled in a little bit crossing the road,
• 25:15
  Speaker 11: but as soon as it went under any kind of
• 25:17
  Speaker 11: a tree you could see it was. It was crisp
• 25:19
  Speaker 11: and clean. And so we cut mingus loose on it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 11: And uh, Steve and I've been trying to do this
• 25:25
  Speaker 11: for a couple of years now.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we go seven seven people and one dog.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, go hu with mingus and uh it's a uh.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Is that right? Seven people? Yeah, me and my three
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I had all three my kids.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I too. Yeah.
• 25:43
  Speaker 11: There's a lot to think about when you're gonna put
• 25:45
  Speaker 11: together that kind of a an adventure, because, uh, it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 11: not just like you and me going looking for a
• 25:52
  Speaker 11: line track. Uh, there's you know, five people that are
• 25:57
  Speaker 11: depending on us, and you know, you bring in us
• 26:00
  Speaker 11: in its form and extra clothes because they're gonna you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 11: the first thing we do when they when you stop
• 26:05
  Speaker 11: snowbills and are looking at a fresh track, they're like, yeah,
• 26:07
  Speaker 11: that's interesting. And then they just start like doing parkour
• 26:11
  Speaker 11: off the edge of the Forest service road into the
• 26:13
  Speaker 11: snow and they're.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's like this. It's like no ship.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: All the snowmobile and goggles are just packed full of snow.
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: Wordless at this point.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Whitewashing each other whatever. Man, It's like.
• 26:31
  Speaker 11: This comes this is part of the story because that
• 26:33
  Speaker 11: morning I had looked at the pack. I had been
• 26:36
  Speaker 11: using a pack that Paul had made for me. It's
• 26:39
  Speaker 11: kind of a just a day hunting pack. It's not
• 26:41
  Speaker 11: really meant to pack meat. And uh, I thought, you know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 11: with all these kids and nowhere we were going, there's
• 26:48
  Speaker 11: not a lot of roads. We might end up on
• 26:50
  Speaker 11: a long walk and I'll be carrying all kinds of gear, water, food, whatever.
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: So I should go to a bigger pack.
• 26:56
  Speaker 11: And so I swapped out and just grabbed my like
• 26:58
  Speaker 11: a exo pack that has more of a frame to it,
• 27:01
  Speaker 11: you know. Anyways, we cut Mangus loose on the track
• 27:06
  Speaker 11: and he's what I would call smoking it, moving it
• 27:09
  Speaker 11: very quickly. He makes it, you know, six hundred yards
• 27:13
  Speaker 11: is the crow flies from us? And I don't know,
• 27:14
  Speaker 11: ten minutes maybe not that.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: We gotta make the noise. What's that little the noises
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: he's making?
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Oh, when Mingus is on track?
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I kept saying, what's that noise mean? What's that
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: noise mean? And he's like he likes it, he doesn't
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: love it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 12: He hasn't seen it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Right, like that kind of stuff.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a steady ball it. Mingus.
• 27:40
  Speaker 11: His bark is very hard to replicate because he kind
• 27:44
  Speaker 11: of balls. And then at the end of it his
• 27:46
  Speaker 11: voice almost cracks and breaks and it almost sounds like
• 27:49
  Speaker 11: you're taking, uh, like newspaper on a window if you're
• 27:53
  Speaker 11: watching it, and it's like that, oh right at the end,
• 27:57
  Speaker 11: it's a funny sound.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: He was explaining to me the noise if it sees it,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: then it's a different noise. Well, once he sees it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: in the tree, it's different.
• 28:10
  Speaker 11: Well, yeah, he'd go into three long like locate balls,
• 28:14
  Speaker 11: which are very deep, very low, and then he would
• 28:17
  Speaker 11: just go into a constant chop. So anyways, he's crossed.
• 28:22
  Speaker 11: We're on one side of a drainage and he's crossed
• 28:25
  Speaker 11: the drainage across the creek and he's gotten up on
• 28:28
  Speaker 11: a I guess that's hill would be south facing right,
• 28:31
  Speaker 11: it's way more open, there's not as many trees, and
• 28:34
  Speaker 11: it looks steep to me.
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: There's some cliffs over there.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: It's like it's a band of cliffs. It's like, no,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: it's like you go down.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: We're on a timbered slope and you go down, you
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: got a big screen field and then like all the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: cliff faces that all the screen had been breaking up.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Sure, but he obviously went you see, I slip a
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: little jelagy in there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 11: But he's the whole thing wasn't a cliff face because
• 28:59
  Speaker 11: he was able to get a bullet cliffs bands. Yeah,
• 29:03
  Speaker 11: he was able to pretty easily work through the trees
• 29:05
  Speaker 11: that the bobcat had taken. And bobcats are known for
• 29:12
  Speaker 11: evading dogs, like while the chase is actually going on, right,
• 29:16
  Speaker 11: a lion really doesn't have that option because it doesn't
• 29:20
  Speaker 11: have the stamina to stay out ahead of dogs. It's
• 29:22
  Speaker 11: a very short chase, usually a couple hundred yards, and
• 29:26
  Speaker 11: the lion gives up because it's just it's lungs are
• 29:29
  Speaker 11: burning and it has to, you know, go up a tree.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you the thing that you told me?
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: While we were doing this, h.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: He went down into a creek bottom where he could
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: picture like a cat running. But then all of a
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: sudden he left the creek bottom and went up and
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: we were thought, oh me, he might already know because
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: the track was so fresh, he might already know there's
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: a dog after him. And Yanni was talking to a
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: houndsman who was saying.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: He's seen cats eluding dogs and actually stop get out
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: on a cliff and be sitting there licking their paws,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: just look looking down or they know the because they
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: when you think about they probably deal with this all
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: the time, like they're on a kill and some coyotes
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: come like, oh brother, climb up a tree right around
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: here in some areas, be like there's wolves to deal with,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: so just get like, oh yeah, on a climba tree
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: and hang out.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: That's part of that wing leaves me alone and then
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I'll go about my business. It's probably like a somewhat
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: casual occurrence to elude a can to get out of
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a canine's way.
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: Sure, it's part of daily life, you know. But yeah,
• 30:33
  Speaker 11: I've somehow it's been saying that they think that when
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: they've glassed those cats sitting there, it almost looks like
• 30:38
  Speaker 11: they're having fun. Which that's a little too too much anthropomorhization, I.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Think, to the to the situation.
• 30:46
  Speaker 11: But anyways, uh, yeah, we were. You had just mentioned
• 31:01
  Speaker 11: about how it's like looking pretty cliffy, like too cliffy,
• 31:06
  Speaker 11: and I'm like, yeah, buddy, he's hunting that kind of
• 31:08
  Speaker 11: stuff all the time, you know. And I was just like,
• 31:11
  Speaker 11: I wasn't worried until you said something. And if you're
• 31:14
  Speaker 11: watching the GPS, especially when they're on these Bobcat tracks,
• 31:18
  Speaker 11: it's just squiggly lions, squigily lined, squiggily lines, and so
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: he's in this cops of evergreens. We can't He's only
• 31:25
  Speaker 11: six hundred yards away, but we can't see him. There's
• 31:27
  Speaker 11: fresh snow. Mingus is pretty much a black and white
• 31:30
  Speaker 11: dog and he blends in very well on snow, and
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: so we're trying to find it, but we can't. And
• 31:36
  Speaker 11: I'm just watching the GPS and squiggily lions, squiggly lions.
• 31:40
  Speaker 11: And then you said he went quiet, and You're like, well,
• 31:44
  Speaker 11: what is he doing now, you know? And I'm like,
• 31:46
  Speaker 11: he must have lost it, you know, and he's just
• 31:48
  Speaker 11: like really having to focus, and he doesn't have that
• 31:50
  Speaker 11: fresh scent in his nose and that's why he's not balling.
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: And like the pause went on long enough to when
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: I'm like, oh, I better look at the GPS again
• 31:58
  Speaker 11: and see what is going on.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 32:00
  Speaker 11: Look at the GPS. And he had made a short
• 32:04
  Speaker 11: run out of that cops of trees to the lookers
• 32:08
  Speaker 11: left and gotten above those cliffs. And then there's a
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: straight line from the top of those cliffs to the
• 32:16
  Speaker 11: bottom of those cliffs. And then the GPS has shown treed.
• 32:19
  Speaker 11: So when you have your garment set on a hat
• 32:22
  Speaker 11: for a hound dog. When they stop moving, it'll basically
• 32:26
  Speaker 11: give you a treed signal, so that if you're out
• 32:28
  Speaker 11: of earshot, you know your hounds stopped moving. He's on
• 32:32
  Speaker 11: a chase, He's probably at the tree with the cat. Well,
• 32:35
  Speaker 11: in this case, we knew he wasn't at a tree
• 32:37
  Speaker 11: with a cat. He was simply not moving and he
• 32:39
  Speaker 11: wasn't barking anymore after being on a super hot track,
• 32:42
  Speaker 11: and so we immediately knew something was up.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was without a doubt that.
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: He had taken a fall.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I figured, well, you know, he's like
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: stone dead at the bottom of a cliff.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, which, yeah, I thought that was going to
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: be the same deal.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I'm reel bad. I felt bad for you, but mainly
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: was like, man, Yan, these daughters love that dog so much.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: This is just gonna this is just gonna be horrible.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like a horrible day.
• 33:13
  Speaker 11: And we should touch on that later to you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 11: at the end of the story, because I still go
• 33:18
  Speaker 11: back and forth. I've been calling Monster already at my
• 33:21
  Speaker 11: house because I've brought up this, uh, this idea of
• 33:24
  Speaker 11: like the different ways that it could have turned out.
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: You know, and.
• 33:32
  Speaker 11: Some like fifty years ago, or maybe not even that long,
• 33:36
  Speaker 11: twenty thirty years ago, this veterinary care that we have
• 33:40
  Speaker 11: so available to us wasn't And if you had a
• 33:44
  Speaker 11: situation like that, you'd be like, well, that's a bummer,
• 33:49
  Speaker 11: and you would just have to like, what.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Do you walk over there?
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: Well, no, you'd walk over there, right, but to get
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: your collar back.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: But girls, I'll be back with the you know what
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 34:01
  Speaker 11: And it's like, yeah, obviously in my head, I'm thinking, like,
• 34:05
  Speaker 11: how is this all going to go down with the kids?
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: How are they going to deal with it?
• 34:08
  Speaker 11: And part of me thinks that I don't want to
• 34:10
  Speaker 11: say it'd be better, but it certainly wouldn't hurt them
• 34:13
  Speaker 11: in life to have gone through the other the other
• 34:17
  Speaker 11: outcome that could have been from that day, oh you know, to.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Go, they wouldn't have had different lives.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: No, not losing, but in the moment, it sure feels
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: like that the pressure you're feeling. So I empty out
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: that backpack that I was just talking about earlier, take out.
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: It's funny because I was packing, you took your pistol
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: out a.
• 34:39
  Speaker 11: Ten millimeter on my hip and and I had a
• 34:43
  Speaker 11: twenty two mag in the backpack in case we found
• 34:46
  Speaker 11: a cat that we wanted to shoot ten millimeters for
• 34:49
  Speaker 11: in case things get western. And I purposely took them
• 34:54
  Speaker 11: both out because I thought, if we go over there
• 34:56
  Speaker 11: and that dog has to be put down, I can't
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: do it with an earshot of those girls because if
• 35:04
  Speaker 11: they hear me shoot that dog, then they'll never forgive me,
• 35:08
  Speaker 11: you know. So I left both things there. I don't
• 35:11
  Speaker 11: know what we're gonna do.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Way down, I said, you got your pistol, right, yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: and you're like no. I didn't want them to hear
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: a shoot.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: We would have had to let his blood out with
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: a knife or something.
• 35:25
  Speaker 8: And we told the kids are making this so much worse.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the stay put.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So it's all five. We're gonna stay put. We're gonna
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: go down and cross the camp.
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: Did you guys let that?
• 35:38
  Speaker 9: Were the kids aware that something was he said the
• 35:41
  Speaker 9: dog might be hurt, okay.
• 35:44
  Speaker 11: Yeah, but they they were having fun. Like like I said,
• 35:48
  Speaker 11: we had just we had we had moved the snowmobiles
• 35:50
  Speaker 11: closer to where he had where he was, they were
• 35:53
  Speaker 11: having fun. This is before we realized he got hurt.
• 35:56
  Speaker 11: They were having fun, throwing snow, chasing each other around,
• 35:59
  Speaker 11: and so we're like mingus, you know, is might need
• 36:02
  Speaker 11: a little hand. We're gonna go check in on him.
• 36:04
  Speaker 11: You guys just hang out, build a fire, eat some snacks.
• 36:07
  Speaker 11: They weren't really aware at all of that. We we
• 36:10
  Speaker 11: didn't certainly didn't show him the GPS track. So Steve
• 36:14
  Speaker 11: and I bailed down off this four service road and uh,
• 36:19
  Speaker 11: what do you think? We dropped thousand feet maybe not
• 36:21
  Speaker 11: quite to the creek bottom.
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: I can tell you exact deep deep snow.
• 36:25
  Speaker 11: A lot of fallen trees, and I felt like we
• 36:29
  Speaker 11: were just hopping a lot of trees, which on the
• 36:31
  Speaker 11: way down wasn't wasn't too bad across the creek and uh,
• 36:36
  Speaker 11: you know, base are able to walk right to him,
• 36:39
  Speaker 11: and Steve actually spotted him first.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: And something had been wanting to ask you about. I'm
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: trying to I'm looking the spot, I said. I was
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: out a little bit in front of you, and I said,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: his head's up. And you look I couldn't tell if
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: you were relieved or upset this head was up. You
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: looked like you were upset that his head was up.
• 37:01
  Speaker 11: No, I mean, honestly, I couldn't tell you if what
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: kind of at that point, what kind of emotions I
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: was feeling. I was just feeling really guilty for letting
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: him get into that position.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: You know, understood heavy responsibility situation too, right, Like, yeah,
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: he got a lot going on, yep, So it was
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: good to see him with his head with his head up.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: We knew he's alive.
• 37:25
  Speaker 11: But we get to him and he's kind of he
• 37:28
  Speaker 11: likes to sit in what we call a lot of
• 37:29
  Speaker 11: dogs sitting in that kind of sphinx position. He does
• 37:33
  Speaker 11: it extremely well and looks very handsome when he does it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 11: Sometimes he crosses his front paws. But he's in that
• 37:40
  Speaker 11: position on a scree slope facing uphill, and he can
• 37:44
  Speaker 11: obviously hear us coming, but he's not looking over his shoulder,
• 37:47
  Speaker 11: you know, He's like just looking one way. And we
• 37:49
  Speaker 11: get up there to him and kind of start poking
• 37:51
  Speaker 11: and prodding, and like he's not reacting to anything we do.
• 37:56
  Speaker 11: Like he can pull his legs out and he's they're
• 37:58
  Speaker 11: just kind of loose and floppy and you know.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Little holes all over him.
• 38:02
  Speaker 11: He's not look yeah, lacerations just covering his body and
• 38:05
  Speaker 11: he's not like you know, you can put your whatever
• 38:09
  Speaker 11: you could kind of yell at him, and he wasn't
• 38:10
  Speaker 11: reacting to the.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Big old blood trail coming down the hill.
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 11: Like he landed probably fifty yards above that, and it
• 38:20
  Speaker 11: looked as though if you had shot a deer up
• 38:22
  Speaker 11: there and then they had rolled down in the blood.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 38:25
  Speaker 11: It was kind of that scene. I'd hiked up there
• 38:29
  Speaker 11: real quick just to see kind of get an idea
• 38:31
  Speaker 11: of what he had gone through and where he landed.
• 38:34
  Speaker 11: We probably had what four to six inches maybe afresh,
• 38:37
  Speaker 11: but not nothing underneath it. Very poor snow conditions in
• 38:42
  Speaker 11: general for the winter around here. But when he landed,
• 38:45
  Speaker 11: you know, the impact had shot snow probably six feet
• 38:49
  Speaker 11: out of the direction.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: It was a big bomb.
• 38:50
  Speaker 11: You see it from way off, Yeah, and it's like
• 38:54
  Speaker 11: between two cliff faces. There was a little bit of
• 38:58
  Speaker 11: a shoot and I thought, well, maybe he could have
• 39:00
  Speaker 11: come down through that, but there was no disturbed snow,
• 39:04
  Speaker 11: so obviously he came off one of the cliff faces.
• 39:06
  Speaker 11: I'd like to go back and actually hit it with
• 39:08
  Speaker 11: the rangefinder to know, but I just remember looking up
• 39:11
  Speaker 11: there and just for to have some sort of comparison
• 39:15
  Speaker 11: or contact. I thought, I've never jumped off anything that
• 39:19
  Speaker 11: high on skis, and like, I'd probably be too scared
• 39:22
  Speaker 11: to jump off of that on skis, even on the
• 39:24
  Speaker 11: you know, deepest powder day. So you ski a lot,
• 39:28
  Speaker 11: you know, you've probably jumped off some stuff. But to
• 39:32
  Speaker 11: right Connor, you're dead experience stuff.
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: Your your dead animal experience there too, right of, Like
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: seeing that tumble down in the snow means something to
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: us that if you don't have the prior experience of
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: recovering game, this doesn't doesn't mean as much, right So you're, yeah,
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: you're you're adding up all your your data points right
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: now and trying to come up with the proper conclusion.
• 39:57
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so we'll have Yeah, we'll never know how he
• 40:01
  Speaker 11: came off the cliff. My best guess is that where
• 40:07
  Speaker 11: he went up, the grade of the hill was enough
• 40:11
  Speaker 11: that he had good footing, and then I think that
• 40:13
  Speaker 11: as he wrapped the hill going left, the grade just
• 40:17
  Speaker 11: it just increased to the point where it got really steep,
• 40:21
  Speaker 11: and the cat kept going and the snow got slick,
• 40:25
  Speaker 11: and eventually he just lost footing and couldn't, you know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 11: couldn't turn around and just went careening off a forty
• 40:32
  Speaker 11: footer is what I guessed it at.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: He too, if you put your I put my ear
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: against his chest and it was like right, And I thought,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: because I don't know what I'm doing, I thought it
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: was later found out what it was, but I thought blood.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: In his chest because I.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Don't know, you know, it's like a real gurgly noise,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: but it why not be in a totally He'll tell you, Rihani,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: He'll tell you what It was a totally different issue
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: now which I had never heard of.
• 40:57
  Speaker 11: Oh yeah, I've learned a lot of words through this
• 41:00
  Speaker 11: experience that I had never heard of before. But uh yeah,
• 41:04
  Speaker 11: so we think we just decide, well, we're gonna pack
• 41:08
  Speaker 11: him up. Luckily, I had that frame pack that's meant
• 41:10
  Speaker 11: to pack me, and so I stuck him in there
• 41:13
  Speaker 11: just like an out quarter between the pack and.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: The frame, eighty three pounds.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: And uh zip zipped him up and were strapped him down.
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: Did he tuck his legs in? Yeah he was. He
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: was dangling. Yeah, he was sitting inside. He was sitting
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: ninety degrees to my back.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And I thought, I was like, if he's you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it's gonna make I don't think the
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: dog is gonna be live, and I'm like, especially it's
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: not gonna be live now. We even talked about what
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Though, It's like, there's nothing you
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: can do. No, there's no way to We're on a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: screen slide, like, there's no way to do anything. You know,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna call a helicopter. It's like you have
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: to just you couldn't. A sled would have been no good.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do.
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: And honestly, even having more people wouldn't really know.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: It was like, nothing you can do.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: You can't tag, you can't tag team in lead wouldn't
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: do you any good. You can't go up, there's nothing
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: to do. But I was like, because it was breathing bad,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: you know, you're like keep your ways open and slumping in.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: The back of a backpack and a run for it.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: The human response, right, would be like, you provide stability
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: for this victim so the movement doesn't cause more trauma,
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: exactly right, or exacerbate whatever internal injuries you can't see,
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: which is just not an option in this scenario. Because
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: it's a ticking clock.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: And that dog was cold too. Oh that's the other
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: thing I thought about waiting. He's already all wet and shivering.
• 42:39
  Speaker 11: Yeah, and he got a lot colder throughout the day
• 42:42
  Speaker 11: because it took a while. So, uh, I decide to
• 42:45
  Speaker 11: instead of going back up the way we came, which
• 42:48
  Speaker 11: in retrospect, I s time to decide if that would
• 42:49
  Speaker 11: have been faster or not.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: What do you think?
• 42:52
  Speaker 11: It took me a long time to go out of
• 42:53
  Speaker 11: the creek. It was like an It was like a
• 42:56
  Speaker 11: mile and a quarter mile and a half. As the
• 42:59
  Speaker 11: crow flew, I figured it might have been two miles
• 43:01
  Speaker 11: the route we took to get out of the creek.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: It would have been better to go with me because
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: we had all the time in the world waiting on me.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: The kids made a second fire and you yeah.
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but you didn't have to climb that hill with
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: eighty five pounds on your back.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: No, but I still think would have been quicker.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: All right. Well, so, but I made this the decision
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: which I often say, don't do if you already know
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: one route. And it was.
• 43:23
  Speaker 11: The thing was is all those logs. I didn't feel
• 43:26
  Speaker 11: like climbing over all those logs on the way back
• 43:28
  Speaker 11: up where the full pack was gonna be fun. Anyways,
• 43:30
  Speaker 11: it takes me two hours to pack him out. We
• 43:32
  Speaker 11: meet up with the crew. Lowed him back into the
• 43:35
  Speaker 11: dog when he comes.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: When he comes finally busting out of the brush, the
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: dog's not in the backpack anymore.
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: He was carrying that dog like like on the front
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: of a romance novel.
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: Well right at the right.
• 43:49
  Speaker 11: Like seconds before that, he had just started legs and
• 43:53
  Speaker 11: stuff started slipping out of the pack, and he was
• 43:57
  Speaker 11: getting a little floppy on me. And so I had
• 43:59
  Speaker 11: him on the ground and I'm like, I can I
• 44:01
  Speaker 11: know where you guys are, just you know, two hundred
• 44:04
  Speaker 11: yards away. I'm like, at this point, god, oh, just
• 44:07
  Speaker 11: you know. He man it, which was probably a bad idea.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, I couldn't believe it. When I want to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: take him out of your hands, I couldn't get him.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I couldn't hold him.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Standing there barely. So it was a hard, awkward package.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: That's a big, heavy dog.
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: Was he making any noise over the course of he.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Looked somehow better, like a little more with it.
• 44:25
  Speaker 11: Maybe, I don't know, maybe the concussion was wearing off.
• 44:28
  Speaker 11: I'm guessing that could have been. He was the whole
• 44:32
  Speaker 11: time I could hear him breathing. It was very shallow breathing,
• 44:35
  Speaker 11: but just this, you know, but just shallow breathing. I
• 44:40
  Speaker 11: at least I could hear him breathing, which was good.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I told my older boy, I said, I took him aside,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: and I said, I don't think that Mingus is gonna
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: come out alive out of the woods. And I can
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: hear my daughter like she's like acting like she's a
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: vet and somehow she got and she's telling Yanni's.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Daughters that if it's got a broken leg, they're gonna
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: have to.
• 44:58
  Speaker 8: Put it down.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, Jimmy tells me this, I should say
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear her say it. Jimmy said, he's she's
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: tattle tailing. That Rosemary is really upsetting Iron and Mabel
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: with her like armchair vet talk.
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: Which in this particular instance, you're.
• 45:18
  Speaker 8: Like, well, how old are they?
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Well, Rosemary's eleven.
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Iron and Maybe are ten and twelve.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: And my older boys thirteen and my younger boys nine.
• 45:29
  Speaker 11: Well, there's vet shows all over the internet and uh
• 45:32
  Speaker 11: television these days that the kids watch.
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: And I think she's.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Missing horses because I told him to fix the horses.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: She's mixing that it could be anyhow a lot of
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: like coaching.
• 45:42
  Speaker 11: Yeah, the only time he made any noises one time
• 45:46
  Speaker 11: I had like slipped down a little bit of a
• 45:48
  Speaker 11: bank and UH kind of caught myself, caught my own weight,
• 45:51
  Speaker 11: and that caused him to, you know, shift pretty heavily
• 45:53
  Speaker 11: to one side, and he made like a little moany
• 45:56
  Speaker 11: grown kind of a sound.
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: But other than that, he was good. So are you
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: talking to your the whole way out?
• 46:01
  Speaker 11: Oh yeah, yeah, just apologizing pretty much, you know, shedding
• 46:04
  Speaker 11: some tears.
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: It was sad.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: It was terrible. It's terrible.
• 46:09
  Speaker 11: Every now and then, for whatever reason, he would like
• 46:11
  Speaker 11: rotate ninety degrees and then get a paw on each
• 46:14
  Speaker 11: one of my shoulders.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: I kind of like even put his chin on my
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: one shoulder and like, oh my gosh, kill me.
• 46:22
  Speaker 11: Yeah yeah, but then he'd like he'd go the other
• 46:26
  Speaker 11: way and he'd almost like his head would like get
• 46:29
  Speaker 11: too far back and kind of get floppy.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: I'd have to look to make sure he's still with.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Me, you know. Oh man, I felt terrible for you
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: guys that.
• 46:36
  Speaker 11: Day, But yeah, we can get a loaded up in
• 46:38
  Speaker 11: it comes with me. Steve still had to go and
• 46:41
  Speaker 11: UH had some unfinished business on that trail. And so
• 46:46
  Speaker 11: just Iron and I took mingus in and there's only
• 46:48
  Speaker 11: one place to get emergency VET services uh here in
• 46:52
  Speaker 11: the Greater Bozeman area, So we.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: Went there and.
• 46:58
  Speaker 11: Trying trying to make a little bit faster here, but
• 47:01
  Speaker 11: we spent a couple hours in there. As they're checking
• 47:03
  Speaker 11: him out, he's obviously he was very cold. They had
• 47:06
  Speaker 11: to bring his coretent back up. The shallow breathing. The
• 47:12
  Speaker 11: injury was called pneumo thorax, which basically is air inside
• 47:17
  Speaker 11: of you know, your chest that's between your chest lining
• 47:21
  Speaker 11: and your lungs, and so when you have air in there,
• 47:24
  Speaker 11: it prevents the lungs from actually expanding and doing what.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: They're supposed to do.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Hence the crazy noise.
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and the super shallow breathing.
• 47:33
  Speaker 11: So they basically just stick like I don't know this
• 47:37
  Speaker 11: is exactly right, but it's like a syringe that's meant
• 47:40
  Speaker 11: for pulling air out. So they just, yeah, they vent
• 47:43
  Speaker 11: them and I think after they do it three or
• 47:45
  Speaker 11: four times, it actually just stick like a tube in
• 47:49
  Speaker 11: there and just constantly keep pulling it. But it took him.
• 47:52
  Speaker 11: They said on the fourth time they would go to
• 47:53
  Speaker 11: the tube. They only did it three times they pulled
• 47:56
  Speaker 11: like two liters air out of there and that was
• 47:58
  Speaker 11: kind of the end of that. All those lacerations he had,
• 48:03
  Speaker 11: I don't know, thirty forty some stitches and staples kind
• 48:06
  Speaker 11: of all over. They shaved any part where there was
• 48:10
  Speaker 11: any trauma on that dog when he came home. When
• 48:16
  Speaker 11: he came home, half of him was shaved, like his
• 48:20
  Speaker 11: rear end. Because yeah, you just start to you know,
• 48:24
  Speaker 11: because you're fixated on different things of what's going on
• 48:26
  Speaker 11: with the dog, and so it takes a day or
• 48:28
  Speaker 11: two you start paying close for attention. But he was
• 48:31
  Speaker 11: rear end was the whole thing was just purple for
• 48:35
  Speaker 11: a week, you know from the impact.
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: Did they give you the talk like before any of
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: this happened where they're kind of like, here's your options
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: and how much are you willing to spend?
• 48:48
  Speaker 11: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that one for sure, Like
• 48:50
  Speaker 11: you knew very quickly what it was going to take.
• 48:53
  Speaker 11: And so I had to have that conversation with my gallant,
• 48:55
  Speaker 11: and yeah, I feel like I owe a lot of
• 48:59
  Speaker 11: people and apology because I for sure have sort of
• 49:02
  Speaker 11: poked fun in anybody that spent I always said, crist
• 49:05
  Speaker 11: five K is my limit, and I was like, you
• 49:09
  Speaker 11: did what your dog got acy l surgery, you dumbass.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: You know that's that was one of the first things
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I mentioned you after we knew the dog would be
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: all right. I was like, if someone had taken you
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: aside a month ago and said, how much would you
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: put into that dog and vet care before you pull
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: the plug and got a new one, and you'd be
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you'd think about it four or five grand
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I suppose, you know whatever. I don't know what the
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: number would be, but you'd have some number. But then
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: you get in the actual situation and there's like this
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: leads to that, and you got to bring it down
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and then find out what's going on, and then there's
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: all this emotional stuff and you're the daughters are involved,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and you can just see how it runs away with
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: itself totally. You know. It's not like, you know, it's
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: not like you get up there and someone says, okay,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: now's your decision moment. You know, is this worth ten
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: k or not worth ten k?
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: You know, but it's I don't know, may'll be dead.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's three hundred dollars, but I just you know,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: you can't you just go and then it's snowballs and
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: then there you are the massive vethist.
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: Dude.
• 50:14
  Speaker 11: They were pretty spot on with once they kind of
• 50:18
  Speaker 11: had him stabilized and had and they knew what was
• 50:21
  Speaker 11: going on. So basically the only he had a mild concussion.
• 50:24
  Speaker 11: They gave him some drugs and he popped right out
• 50:26
  Speaker 11: of that. He had the newmo thorax. They pumped that out.
• 50:29
  Speaker 11: They gave him whatever, thirty forty stitches and staples all over.
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: Not a big deal.
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 50:34
  Speaker 11: The one broken bone from falling forty feet basically straight
• 50:37
  Speaker 11: to rock.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Was it the leg I thought was broken at the
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: lego though was.
• 50:40
  Speaker 11: One of his left rear legs has a fractured botella,
• 50:46
  Speaker 11: so he broke his kneecap and uh but anyways, Yeah,
• 50:52
  Speaker 11: so once they had him stabilized, they were able to
• 50:54
  Speaker 11: call us and be like, this is what it's going
• 50:56
  Speaker 11: to cost.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, by that point you already carried him all
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: that way and all that is different.
• 51:01
  Speaker 11: Oh yeah, and then you're like, okay, well, what's it
• 51:03
  Speaker 11: going to cause? You canna just put him to sleep?
• 51:05
  Speaker 11: And then I'm gonna either lie to my daughter so
• 51:08
  Speaker 11: that he didn't make it through the night.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: I told the vet money is no objects.
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 9: Yeah, but it's not like he would have like the
• 51:22
  Speaker 9: putt in the sleep thing. If they had just stopped care,
• 51:25
  Speaker 9: he wouldn't have just like died on his own, you
• 51:28
  Speaker 9: know what I mean?
• 51:29
  Speaker 8: No, Like, how could you.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: It's like they'd actively have to put him down. Yeah,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: isn't free you have a dog run around with broken
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe no.
• 51:40
  Speaker 11: I asked about that and they said, basically, the leg
• 51:43
  Speaker 11: would just atrophyed and nothing, and then you end up
• 51:47
  Speaker 11: having to amputat it and it wouldn't be a good deal.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: And I told you my theory about three le dogs.
• 51:53
  Speaker 11: Oh listen, I was ready to go there. I need
• 51:55
  Speaker 11: to check up on this because they told me that
• 51:56
  Speaker 11: was pretty much gonna be the same price to go
• 52:00
  Speaker 11: to a three legged dog to what we we we
• 52:03
  Speaker 11: paid for.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like, that's a bargain because people like
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: them three legged dogs.
• 52:07
  Speaker 8: Man.
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: Look, I would have had no problem running a three
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: legged hound. I know a couple of the film.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: About you if you started, if you started catching lines
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: with a three legged dog, they had made a hole
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: of the Eddy movie. It'd be like the sad part
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: with the sad music and yeah, like if.
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: You took them both off and we got one of
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: those wheelie cards. How much that that off road mountain
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: bike tires on the back before we get take before
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: we leave that the first night.
• 52:38
  Speaker 11: That everything's kind of set, these stabilized, we're like, all right,
• 52:42
  Speaker 11: we'll get a phone call from you later. And they're like, yeah,
• 52:45
  Speaker 11: surgery probably tomorrow, or go home and discuss with your
• 52:48
  Speaker 11: family on you know, if you guys want to pay,
• 52:50
  Speaker 11: et cetera. But they're like, oh, you want to come
• 52:53
  Speaker 11: back real quick and just say, you know, give him
• 52:55
  Speaker 11: a kiss and say bye and check him out. I'm like, yeah, sure,
• 52:58
  Speaker 11: that sounds like a great idea, you know what. I
• 53:00
  Speaker 11: wasn't thinking like goodbye as in forever, but just like go,
• 53:04
  Speaker 11: you know, give a pat on the back. And we
• 53:06
  Speaker 11: walk in there and it's just him laying on this table.
• 53:09
  Speaker 11: I mean, there's people kind of milling out and about girls.
• 53:13
  Speaker 11: Just just sign him and we walk over there, and
• 53:15
  Speaker 11: when we're like maybe five feet from the table, you
• 53:18
  Speaker 11: kind of you're like, oh, you see the big blanket
• 53:20
  Speaker 11: and he's got the little mask on, you know, helping him.
• 53:22
  Speaker 11: So he's like not looking great, shaved everywhere and you're
• 53:27
  Speaker 11: kind of like, you know, your heart sinks a little
• 53:28
  Speaker 11: bit to see your buddy in such a bad steak
• 53:31
  Speaker 11: because he's not really like you don't even look up
• 53:33
  Speaker 11: at you when you walk in there, and right is
• 53:35
  Speaker 11: we're like getting to be a little bit closer where
• 53:37
  Speaker 11: we're gonna like put our hands on him. The machine
• 53:40
  Speaker 11: next to him goes.
• 53:43
  Speaker 13: And all of a sudden, there's a dude running over
• 53:45
  Speaker 13: and he's like, don so, I need seven milligrams of this. No,
• 53:49
  Speaker 13: make a tent and prepare a backup, And all of
• 53:51
  Speaker 13: a sudden, it's like there's five people around him and
• 53:54
  Speaker 13: we're like pushed out, and I mean it's like an
• 53:56
  Speaker 13: er scene, you know, like.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: You had little paddles.
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: Clear, Yeah it was.
• 54:00
  Speaker 13: It was gonna be that suit. And it looks at
• 54:02
  Speaker 13: me like, what the F They just told us he
• 54:04
  Speaker 13: was stable.
• 54:05
  Speaker 8: You know, I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
• 54:07
  Speaker 11: Well his uh he had had just like a little
• 54:10
  Speaker 11: heart arrhythmia and uh and he got the same problem.
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: It was all yeah, his is gone away, I think.
• 54:17
  Speaker 11: But it was just cause from that impact and the
• 54:20
  Speaker 11: trauma to the heart, you know, that's what caused that
• 54:22
  Speaker 11: pneumo thorax. Too, was just such impact that some part
• 54:26
  Speaker 11: of the lung, whether it's like a burst of sack
• 54:29
  Speaker 11: or an alveoli, but some end part of the lobe
• 54:32
  Speaker 11: just goes and like pops open and literally releases air
• 54:36
  Speaker 11: into your chest. You can have internal which is neumo thorax,
• 54:41
  Speaker 11: which is what he had, or you can have external pneumothorax,
• 54:44
  Speaker 11: which is if your you know, rib cage actually got
• 54:46
  Speaker 11: punctured and air got in that way.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm learning about myself right now.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: If you were telling me that about a person, I'd
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: be having all these problems because it's a dog.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not having all these problems. Like if someone tells
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: me testicular cancer, my nuts start aching.
• 55:04
  Speaker 8: But I hear.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: You can hear all this without having the pain.
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: You feel like a pain or just like a strange sensation.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: I feel like, man, I got that problem.
• 55:13
  Speaker 9: It's like a sympathetic pregnancy.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: Steve Gatz, Yeah, yeah, I'm just noticing that for some reason,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: if you were explaining that in that kind of grand detail,
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: my lungs like, there's.
• 55:29
  Speaker 11: So yeah, he's he They put a what's called the
• 55:31
  Speaker 11: external fixater around his rear leg, which is basically this
• 55:35
  Speaker 11: bracket that has pins that all go into different bones
• 55:39
  Speaker 11: that are holding things together. And now the external fixer
• 55:42
  Speaker 11: actually has a piston looks just like the piston on
• 55:46
  Speaker 11: the hatch on your topper that holds your your window open.
• 55:51
  Speaker 11: And then they adjust it and and give him more
• 55:55
  Speaker 11: range of motions.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: When he's done with that.
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: Can I have the piston because I've been using a
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: broom that my windshield for months now.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: You know, I think luckily they don't they take it
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: back and so that saves you a little bit of money.
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so I won't own that piece of hardware.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: When when we're all done, you take a bid from them,
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: and yeah, just compare with my the the shop down there.
• 56:16
  Speaker 8: You know, how did how did you? How did you
• 56:18
  Speaker 8: carry him out on the snowmobile.
• 56:20
  Speaker 11: We have a sled like a dog box that sits
• 56:24
  Speaker 11: on a sled that's like a trailer behind the snowmobile.
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: So we just loaded him right into his box and.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: He wrapped him up in his down jacket.
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, try to make try to warm him up a
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: little bit.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: So if anyone wants to send you on you a
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: bunch of money, that's what he'll do. It is he'll
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: turn around and give it to his VET.
• 56:41
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so it's a it's a it's a big it's
• 56:43
  Speaker 11: a big number.
• 56:44
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Did you do you get a payment plan like he's
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: supposed to come up with that kind of money.
• 56:49
  Speaker 11: Yeah, they actually have a uh there's like an emergency
• 56:53
  Speaker 11: VET credit that you can get for with super low uh,
• 56:59
  Speaker 11: with pretty low interest from.
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: Who it's it's that's what through the VET. Well, I
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: mean they advertised like a.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Third party financing option.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: For that.
• 57:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, he's right. It writes it up while you're there.
• 57:16
  Speaker 8: Let me go ask my manager.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: It's a great it's a great business plan because you're
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: just sitting around, like who should I lend money to?
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: Who's gonna spend the money?
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: No matter what. So the VET offers like financing or
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: it's a third party. It's a third party.
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: It's like crit over, you know, like on Yeah, I
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: was looking at it the other day when I paid
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: a big VET bill.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: I just wonder if I.
• 57:38
  Speaker 11: Could do it, Like now you got to make payments,
• 57:41
  Speaker 11: you know, I don't know, if we haven't figured out
• 57:44
  Speaker 11: exactly how we're gonna do it, we'll probably just take
• 57:46
  Speaker 11: a you know, big chunk out of savings and just
• 57:48
  Speaker 11: knock it out.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: You know, man, better than that you dog every time
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: you see him.
• 57:53
  Speaker 11: Well, you know, it's funny because that dog is a
• 57:56
  Speaker 11: you know, pound puppy, sheltered dog, whatever you want to
• 57:59
  Speaker 11: call him.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Now you can just you bought him for a lot
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: of money.
• 58:02
  Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, he was like a hunt because pound dogs
• 58:06
  Speaker 11: aren't free.
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: They still make you pay for Yeah, it's like seventy five.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: You just really boosted his pedigree there.
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. I better get his papers.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Now people ask Yannie how much he paid for that dog.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: He had to start the story by going.
• 58:21
  Speaker 8: Well is it genuine racehorse?
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 58:24
  Speaker 11: Just like so, yeah, he's fine. Now he's uh, he's
• 58:28
  Speaker 11: he's going. He's not going stir crazy you think he
• 58:30
  Speaker 11: would be. I mean he wants to go out, he can't.
• 58:33
  Speaker 11: You can't just let him roam. He's basically got to
• 58:35
  Speaker 11: be on a leash.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: It was a season ender.
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, there's no no more cat hunting here.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And Yanni lost his appetite for cat hunting. He doesn't
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: like doing it without his own dog, he said.
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean he went, he went.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: With someone else's dog. He said, it wasn't the same. Yeah,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: it was still fun just not the same.
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: Right, But he did jump off a cliff that's.
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: In the game. So what I was amazed at this.
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: When we were chatting on on text, they said it
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: was like ninety recovery, like to full phone recovery for
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: that back leg. Yeah yeah, right, yeah, yeah, great. So
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: it won't be like new but I think, I mean,
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: he'll be able to hunt, no problem.
• 59:13
  Speaker 8: How old does he take?
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: Four him? He's got another at least, you know, four
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: to six.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't think, I say, I'd get him right back
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: to that same spot. See if you learned anything.
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: Shock the ship out of him.
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, cliff, yeah, there's nothing. Not a bad
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: idea to put him up on top of the cliff
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: and then shock him.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Now, you know, he'll find that he never goes left
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: ever again. Yeah, your dog that only goes right.
• 59:38
  Speaker 11: It'll be interesting to see if he does have any
• 59:41
  Speaker 11: uh you know post you know trauma, you know from it?
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: Did he learn from it?
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: I remember, as hard headed as that dog is, I
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: don't think so. I doubt it.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing.
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for being there and helping out. It would
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: have been uh even tougher it had just been me
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: and my girls Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say it was fun, but I'm
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: glad it worked out the way it did because, like
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: I said, I felt terrible for you guys.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was uh, mostly felt terrible.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: For your girls because that would have been a hard
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: little trip. Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Oh.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 11: The one other sort of silver lining out of this
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 11: is I wasn't even really bringing it up, but uh,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 11: because I don't know if it was Jennifer that was
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 11: like seeing like how bumna I was about how the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 11: season ended for us, and how like it was, you know,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 11: no more line hunting for me and mingus. You know,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 11: it's we're done for till next year. But uh, she
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 11: pretty much is given the go ahead for number two,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 11: So another one.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be so bad. If I had a second dog,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: I'd still be in the race.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so yeah, get August.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 11: I think we'll have a puppy.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: That's awesome, man. Yeah, all right, Dan, you're ready to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: dive in.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: I've been doing this for the last five months.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all you've been doing is diving. You you
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: already dove?
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I dove. I fell off a cliff that they
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 8: found me.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I was gurgling, Uh, layout who you lay out your
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: organization first, and then lay out uh, and then just
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: kind of give the give the rundown of what When I.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: Said, what's going on in Colorado? What tell us what's
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: up with Colorado? Well, first give a thorough in introduction
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: of yourself.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 8: So I'm Dan Gage. I'm the executive director for the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 8: Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management. And it's a five O
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 8: one C four organization.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 8: Our mission is to enhance, promote, and defend the North
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 8: American model of wildlife conservation and responsible wildlife management. And
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 8: so we're not a we're not a membership organization, UH,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 8: but we do advocacy work and education work on a
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 8: Friday at different levels, and we have three full time
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 8: lobbyists at the Colorida Capitol. We fight through the legislative
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 8: side of things and the regulatory side through the Parks
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 8: and Wallife Commission. And now we've been dealt a citizen's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 8: initiative to bring it to a ballot for November fifth
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 8: of this year to ban the harvest of mountain lions, bobcats,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 8: and the red herring on that as links. I heard
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 8: you talk about that before, but I mean links aren't
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 8: harvested full in the lower forty eight. But they want
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 8: to make sure that they never are if they're ever delisted,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 8: they say, no, we don't want you to ever do
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 8: it if they ever become delisted.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 9: Dan, when you say a citizen's initiative, can you say where?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 9: Like that's like, where did it come from?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: I want to clarify it as real quick though you
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: said you've been dealt this right. This is an issue
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: that Color Addams for Responsible Wildlife Management is fighting against.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 8: Fighting against. Yeah, we beat similar type issues through the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 8: Parks and Wallife Commission, and they also the antis the
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 8: extreme went to the General Assembly through the legislature in
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 8: twenty twenty two, and we beat him there. And this
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 8: was their other option to turn around and file an initiative,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 8: which twenty six states had that available to them, but
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 8: filing the initiative to where they get enough signatures through
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 8: the legal process and then they can put it on
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 8: the ballot for people to vote on in an attempt
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 8: to ban I mean, they call it trophy hunting, even
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 8: though we went through the proper steps that were allowed
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 8: to us or the Secretary of State and the title
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 8: Board and the Supreme Court that we got trophy hunting
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 8: out of the title, but it still remains in the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 8: measure itself. But it's not trophy hunting. It's a hunting ban.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 8: It's a mountain lion and bobcat hunting ban is what
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 8: it is.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't fill out of question.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: They're asking what you're interested in retaining from the animal,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: and then you get to get a permit if you
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: write the right thing down.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 8: No, No, it's the intent, is their Definitiontive trophy hunting,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 8: Steve is intentionally killing, wounding, stalking, and trapping a bobcat
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 8: or mountain lion and intentionally killing. It's not trophy hunting.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 8: That's it's hunting. And the scary part about this is
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 8: that we appreciate the opportunity to continually talk about it.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: But it's an education process because it'll become statutory. I mean,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 8: it will set a precedent.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I want you back up a little bit because
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: I want to get this the language part of this
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: a minute. But how many signatures like tell her about
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: initiative works.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 8: So they file, they file, and it has to go
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 8: through the proper legal processes as in any state. There's
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 8: twenty six states that allow it. But they file and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 8: then there's an opportunity for arguments from the they're the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 8: proponents worth the opposers. I was the only objector on
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 8: the entire legal documents through the state.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: When you say they like, who is they?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 8: So the organization that is doing it is a group
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 8: called Cats Aren't Trophies. It's it's called cats.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: Was it built for this purpose?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 8: It was built specifically for this person purpose. Yes, But
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 8: but they have deep connections with the Animal Welfare Action,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: Institute for a Humane Economy, which is run by Wayne Piselli,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 8: the former hs US executive director, and Wild Earth Guardians
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 8: and a variety And if you look at their website,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 8: there's fifty or sixty different organizations that are all on board.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 8: But it's Cats Aren't Trophies is the organization.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: Is Center for Biological Diversity on it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 8: They're they're on it as far as a supporter, but
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 8: to the best of our knowledge, they haven't put any
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 8: money in that's been trackable.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: Serious club. Everybody is they're on it.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean you you look at the you look
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 8: at the Lord as a supporter, yeah, I mean it's
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 8: it's it's gotten to a point to where I think
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 8: they see it as a shiny object, and they're willing
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 8: to turn around and throw their name into the hat
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 8: on every single thing. And the individual people that are
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 8: running the Colorado side of those organizations have been those
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 8: are the ones that we've been fighting for the last
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 8: twenty years anyway. I mean that's a but they just
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 8: keep resurfacing. I mean it's like mushrooms. You get rid
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 8: of them out of your yard, but they're pretty sure
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 8: they show up somewhere else.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: So weird too, because bobcats are an IUCN species of
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Least Concern.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, there's just so.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: Surprising that Center for Biological Diversity in Sierra Club and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: organizations like that would even be in it when you're
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: talking about a species of least concern.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: And that's a great point too, when we talk about
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: like they International Union for the Conservation of Nature is
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: like the they when people are like, well, they say
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: it's okay, or they say they're doing good. It's the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: the convention that people go to to see how everything's doing.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: It's like the science at the back end of all
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: biological diversity basically, and.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying, species of least concern they rank out.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: If you're curious about any animal. You can go look
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: up the IUCN status any species and its in foreseeable issues, right,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: So you could have stable populations of an animal, but
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: they'll look and they'll be like, well, foreseeable issues coming
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: up and that will impact the level if you go
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: look up a bobcats, bobcats species of Least concerned meaning stable, widespread,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: no foreseeable issues exactly.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 8: And same with mountain lions. Yeah, I mean, you know,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 8: mountain lions, mountain lions, and bobcats are so highly regulated
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 8: in the United States that people, you know, it's the fallacies,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 8: the lies, and the falsehoods of our enemies. As you
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 8: say it enough, people start to believe it, and the
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 8: facts and the data will argue those those points that
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 8: the opposition brings. But bobcats and mountain lions, there's no
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 8: We all know this sitting around the table, but the
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 8: general public for the most part doesn't.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: And the links thing is funny because links are enjoy
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: the highest level of protection that any animal can get
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: in America because they're esa.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 8: Protected exactly exactly. They're harvestable in Canada and the last
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 8: but not down a little entire tired lower lower forty eight.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: They're in dangered species yea, you're protected. Yeah, but there
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: state can't. State can't do anything anyway.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 8: No, it's just like half the wolves that you turn
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 8: around to deal with what we what we have to
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 8: deal with in Colorado. Wolves are not on the endangered
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 8: species list in the Northern Rockies, but they're going to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 8: be in Colorado just because we brought them there. But
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 8: it's the same wolves that came from Oregon, that probably
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 8: came from somewhere else that it's it's the lies that
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 8: that our opposition wants to be able to bring to
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 8: the table, and they, like I say, if they say
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 8: it enough, it just becomes the truth as far as
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 8: they're concerned. And what we're trying to do is make
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 8: sure that the general public, not just in Colorado, I
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 8: mean we have to worry about the voter, but throughout
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 8: the United States sportsmen and women need to pay attention
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 8: because of the way it's written. And you could turn
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 8: on and put it in Arkansas or Wisconsin or anything,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 8: just change change their statutes because of the statutory component
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 8: of this. You know, with people voting on it.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: Did uh how many votes does it take or how
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: many signatures? And then what's the population of Colorado and
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: how many.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 8: Signatures, So it's roughly two percent of the population that
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 8: they need for signatures. But I think it's one hundred
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 8: and twenty four two hundred and thirty eight signatures that
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 8: they have to get that are certified. So they're out
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 8: gathering signatures now, but we're assuming that they'll probably have
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 8: to get one hundred and eighty thousand because there will
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 8: be some ineligible ones and someones that aren't.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: You know, readable or whatever.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 8: Exactly, people won't fill it out right, so that one
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 8: won't They might fill out the wrong county, or they
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 8: might fill out that it's a country, not a county.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Hanging chads, yeah, exactly. You know our young friends, he
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: doesn't get the hanging chads, Joe.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: And you're lucky Gorvy Bush.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: When they get to gor v Bush in history, listen,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: you'll hear about hanging chads.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah. But in Colorado, in the state constitution, they have
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: to pass these citizens initiatives. If the populace votes yay, right.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 8: Well, this will not be constitutional. This will be statutory.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 8: So a constitutional one would you would have to get
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 8: two percent of those required signatures from each one of
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 8: the thirty five Senate districts, so this one here, they
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 8: can all stand out in front of one Whole Foods
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 8: in downtown Denver. Essentially, That's what I'll say.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: I always think of that because there's like, you can't
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: go to a Whole Foods now someone having a picnic table.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a folding table off the front left and signatures.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they they there's We had some guys downtown Denver
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 8: that were doing some other functions and they said there
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 8: was at one location, there was five individuals that were
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 8: out gathering signatures four five different ballot initiatives at one spot.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 8: I mean, I don't know what you do, but if
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 8: I don't go to the grocery store, my wife does.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 8: But if I went there and there was five people
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 8: trying to hit me up on the way end of
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 8: the way out, I mean, I'll buy girl Scout cookies
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 8: if I go. But I'm not going to turn around
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 8: and stop and sign five petitions.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: No, I'm always I'm always thinking my head. Just the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: fact that you're here makes me suspicious of what you're
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: getting signatures.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 8: Exactly exactly what do you want to change in my life?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: I mean that the produce But yeah, I don't know
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: what's going on in.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 8: This park well, And there's so many things going on
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 8: in Colorado because of the landscape that we've got. I mean,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 8: the gubernatorial administration has not been favorable to us, to
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 8: say the least when it comes to hunting and fishing
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 8: and agriculture type issues. And there's some other stuff going
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 8: on in Denver that the state won't be able to
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 8: vote on, but the Denver City and County residence will
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 8: And one is a fur ban, which is not a
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 8: fur ban's it's much broader than that. And it's a
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 8: slaughterhouse ban as well. Both of those are citizen ballot
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 8: initiatives for Denver City County residents. But those are the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 8: same people that will be able to vote on the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 8: state wide Mountain Lion and Bobcat issue as well. So
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 8: they get to vote on three things to try to
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 8: take away. And the state residents themselves get to vote
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 8: on the mountain line and Bobcat, but they can't engage
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 8: in the other ones because they don't live in the city.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 8: You're just looking at me like let's go talk.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, I'm not looking at you that way.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: I just remember back in I remember back in the
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: early nineties, must have been the nineties when Colorado had
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: the ye had.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: A bar nation, know, the one they had the trapping Well,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: that was in ninety six, and I'm looking at it
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: that way only because of this. I remember that trapping band.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: Someone said at the time the minute Denver and Fort
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Collins had a population that equaled the broader population of Colorado,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: meaning fifty point one percent of Colorado's lived in Denver,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: Fort Collins, the trapping.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: Band, YEP. And they were like, man, it was like
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: it was like urban people, the yep, rural people.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 8: And I saw a statistic that this is pretty much
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 8: across the board, especially in the West. In nineteen hundred
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 8: and eighty percent of the population lived on the landscape
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 8: and twenty percent lived in the city or the municipalities.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 8: In nineteen fifty it was a fifty to fifty mix,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 8: and then two thousand, twenty percent lived on the landscape
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 8: and eighty percent lived in the cities. I mean just
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 8: in one hundred years. In the next fifty years, they're
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 8: saying it'll probably be somewhere around ninety percent live in
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 8: the cities and ten percent will live on the landscape.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 8: That's the problem that we get into because everybody benefits
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 8: off of hunting and fishing, even if they don't participate
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 8: in it. They've benefit off of agriculture production. We all
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 8: had to eat. It's not like we're all growing chickens
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 8: and gardens in everybody's backyard. But all of that stuff
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 8: plays into people's psyche because it doesn't affect them until
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 8: they go to the grocery store orun till they want
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 8: to feed their kids or go to McDonald's or something.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 8: And I think that we're getting to a point where
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 8: there's going to be some break even where people are
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 8: just going to get fed up and say, wait a minute,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 8: let's just leave it up to the experts on a
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 8: variety of different things. We haven't gotten there yet, but
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 8: we're going to this November, I think, just because of
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 8: the outreach that we've got and the momentum that we're
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 8: actually building on this issue. Because people are sick and
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 8: tired of extremism. They're sick and tired of somebody telling
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 8: them what to do. Whether they do it or not,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 8: it's the fact that they might want to do it,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 8: or they know that their uncle does it, or their
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 8: brother does it, or the guy that works at Whole
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 8: Foods does it while somebody's trying to gather signatures outside that.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: That was the point I wanted to get into with this.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Which makes it tricky is you look at you look
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: at certain environmental battles, that environmental fights that sportsmen.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: Get involved in.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 8: Ok.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: And the most notable example would be like the huge
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: outpouring of that came from the hunting and fishing community
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: all around the country in opposition to developing the Pebble
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Mind site. And a lot of like people wanted to
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: draw a line in the sand on the Pebble Mind development,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: even if they weren't planning to go to Bristol Bay, right,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: they looked and they're like that, you know, just it
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: was easy for people to picture like that's the wrong
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: mind and the wrong place. I'll never go there, but
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: I recognize that this is something I want to lean
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: in on. The problem it comes to method of take
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: fights or fights like this. I think it's hard for
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: people to picture why it matters to them, Like, you know,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: I don't hunt bobcats, I don't hunt mountain lions. I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: don't have any friends that run lines.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: Why would I care? Right? Because it's it just winds
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: up being harder to imagine why it why you can.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: By strapolate pebble is just a total clean water issue, right, sure?
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: And clean water the overlap for the general population, the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: bell curve of the population, it strikes a bigger tone.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: And so like, what what's our messaging right when we say, well,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: this method of take this particular species, what's the overlap
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: for the bell curve of the biggest pot possible chunk
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: of the population. Right, That's that's the messaging that that
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: we have to be able to get to with with
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: a lot of non hunters.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that what if I look at
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: I'd worry about I got a handful of balls in
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: your hair, and I'm gonna.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Turn back already meant, but I just wanna to clarify
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: a point, like even just if it just if this,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: if a vote like this breaks on hunters non hunters,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: you're gonna lose because most people aren't hunters, right, I
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: don't know what what's participation rate in Colorado fourteen high
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: at the high end, at the high end, I'm sure, Okay,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: so you're gonna lose anyways, So it's like hunters and
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: then some supporters. Now, if we were talking about a
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: deer in elk hunting band, which I don't think is
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: out of the realm of possibility in my kid's lifetime. No, so,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: if you're talking about a deer elk hunting band, you're
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: gonna bucket up. You're pretty much bucketing up most hunters. Okay,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: most hunters are gonna be like that impacts me. If
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: you talk about an obscure game animal, you're not even
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: bucketing up most hunters. But even if you had all hunters,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: you still need extra support from elsewhere, exactly right. So
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: I wonder about how to gather it up, and I
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: would say, like for starters, and I'll leave it to
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: you on the public end of things, the none hunter
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: end of things, I would argue with hunters, why you
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: need to pay attention to this is again, you're talking
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: about taking a stable, expanding population of wildlife. If we
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: say and I don't, I don't. I'm not terribly familiar
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: with the IUCN, but an International Board of Biologists determines
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: these things to be stable with no foreseeable threat.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: The experts that the experts lean on.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: And you're saying, no, we're pulling that species out of
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: the pool of available resources, not because they're imperiled, not
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: because they're endangered, not because there's any reason to think
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: that these species have a chance of extirpation, but just
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: be because we don't think you should go and get
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: those exactly. So what's next?
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: Sorry guys, Jeremy Romero was making one of his recipes,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: uh beria tacos, so so hap is it?
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 8: We learned that in trivia weeks ago.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: Point being, That's what I would say to hunters, why
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: this matters to you? Because like stuff you like to.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: Do is in line bears that's definitely coming, right, Someone
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: could go make the case on big horn sheep that
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: they're trying. Yeah, whatever, you know, other stuff is coming.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: This is just like a stuff. Yeah, archree, that's mean
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: right now. How do you think the like?
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: How should the the non hunting public, why do they care?
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 8: Well, the hardest thing to get people to understand is
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 8: why something affects, benefits or adversely affects them. And for
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 8: somebody that doesn't hunt, they have to recognize. We have
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 8: to get them to recognize the importance of hunting and
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 8: conservation and the problem I think that we get into
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 8: with that messaging is you've got ten percent that are
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 8: going to be strong, you know, right hunters, and you've
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 8: got ten percent they're going to be strong, right. Extremist.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 8: I don't like the word animal activists because they're not.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 8: They're terrorists. They're extremists. You know, they might be activist
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 8: as well, but I mean their mentality is to disrupt
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 8: the entire process of every game agency in the country
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 8: and on the continent. As extremist, I mean they want
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 8: to do it at the extremist level that they possibly can't.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 8: You mentioned big horn sheep Trist's Orneo, and I've mentioned this,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 8: I think even on the live show that we did
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 8: Tris's Orneo with the Denver the Color of the Sun
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 8: mentioned why are we why are we harvesting bighorn sheep
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 8: are state animal biggorn cheap and no different than mountain lions.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 8: They're already set in the tone in the narrative of
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 8: why we shouldn't do something and why they should be
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 8: able to go after the low hanging fruit like on
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 8: bobcats and mountain lions. There's less bobcat and mountain lion
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 8: harvesters out there than there is many other things. But
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 8: there's less big horned sheep, less mountain goat, and less
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 8: moose harvesters than there is the mountain lion and bobcat combined.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 8: You can't, I mean, so you stop and think of that,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 8: you know, I mean, we sold twenty five hundred dollars.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: That's pretty interest that we sold.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 8: Twenty five hundred mountain lions last year licenses. Last year
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 8: we had a success rate of nineteen percent on bobcats.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 8: We can only cage trap in the state of Colorado,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 8: or we can use hounds, or we can hunt them
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 8: with predator calls. But roughly about about eight thousand guys
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 8: participate in some capacity to pursue mountain lions, excuse me, bobcats.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 8: This year we harvested around nine hundred bobcats. On some
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 8: years it's been as highs nineteen hundred that you had
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 8: guys out there. But in the historical side of things,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 8: we did thirty six thirty eight hundred bobcats back in
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 8: the seventies and crazy when prices were crazy and you
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 8: had more people out there doing it. You know, trucks
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 8: cost twelve grand and and bobcats worth four hundred dollars,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 8: And now trucks are eighty grand and guy's got fourteen kids,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 8: and you know he's got vet bills with his dogs
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 8: and all the other stuff. I mean, he's not out
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 8: pursuing like what they used to. But that doesn't mean
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 8: that it's not a viable option or an advocation for management.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: But it's interesting that harvest is down historically down. Yeah,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: it just has a market factor.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 8: Well on the bobcats anyway. But back in nineteen sixty five,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 8: when when mountain lions became a big game animal. Before that,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 8: they were a nuisance in Colorado, we roughly had two
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 8: hundred mountain lions on a landscape, and now we boast
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 8: five thousand with regulated hunting, with regulated harvest, with objectives
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 8: that are met throughout the entire state. We've got more
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 8: lions now than what we've ever had. And they still
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 8: want us not to be able to harvest them because
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 8: it's wrong, that's what they say. They don't care that
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 8: it has anything to do with management. I think that's
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 8: where the general public says, why is it wrong? How
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 8: should it be worked? Why should you just take it out?
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 8: They're starting to ask those questions. I mean, as many
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 8: opportunities we've had to talk to the general public at
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 8: a variety of different levels. And I'm not speaking for
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 8: all five point nine million people in Colorado, but people
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 8: are questioning, why, why isn't our game agency. Are scientists
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 8: and our biologists good enough to make the decisions on
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 8: our game management practices? And they're starting to realize and
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 8: I think, honestly, guys, I think the wolf issue brought
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 8: that to the forefront because there was a fifty one
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 8: to forty nine percent vote, very very split decision. We
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 8: were told that we would lose by something like sixty
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 8: sixty eight to thirty two percent, and it was fifty
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 8: one to forty nine. I think it's surprised the hell
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 8: out of everybody on both sides, because even the people
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 8: that thought, well, maybe this would kind of be cool,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 8: but I'm not really sure, and then the other ones
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 8: that thought, yeah, I'd like to hear a wolf. How
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 8: now that it's been in the news for the last
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 8: four years, they're like, well, there's been a lot of negativity.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 8: Do we really want to go to the route the
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 8: Bobkads and mountain lions. The general public is starting to
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 8: question why we can't rely on our experts. Are scientists
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 8: We've heard the science, heard the science all the way
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 8: through COVID, through that whole process. Why can't we follow
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 8: the science here? And I think that that's starting to
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 8: play a significant role in people's psyche. Is about well,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 8: I like to know that bobcats and mountain lions are
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 8: appropriately managed because they've been talking about wolvesbying appropriately managed
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 8: now for the last four years. Why do we need
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 8: to turn around and put it on the ballot.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: What was the lion harvest in Colorado last year?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 8: Roughly like just less than fived, like four hundred and
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 8: eighty six. It was actually by hunters.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if this line up. I don't
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: know how this impactful, this will be the voters.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: But you see an interested thing happen where the states
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: do depredation work.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 8: Yep.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: I've never checked into this exhaustively, but my understandings before
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: California had their lion hunting, band hunters in cal And
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: you were killing about three hundred lines a year. Since then,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: the state is killing about three hundred lines a.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 8: Year somewhere in that neck of the woods. I've seen
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 8: high end loads of that. But the but the the
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 8: kicker trying to explain it to our public is that
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 8: hunters aren't paying to do that. Taxpayers are paying government officials,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 8: whether federal or otherwise.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: You used to have people pay, used to have people
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: pay for the opportunity, and now you're taking tax parimony
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: to pay someone to do it.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: As though, And it's so as though the lion that's.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: Getting shot, it's like, well, thank god it's a government employee.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 8: They're happy about it now because they got a.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: Government employee, got me, not a guy who is paying
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: too well.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 11: And that's where like a major like fallacy or lie
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 11: about the whole story is is that they're telling people that, hey,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 11: if we stop this, the end result is that there's
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 11: less lions killed. Right, I mean, if you're getting pitched
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 11: this that whole Foods and getting there trying to get
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 11: your signature, they're gonna tell you we're gonna stop the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 11: killing of mountain lions, you.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: Probably, I mean you'll you'll dent it for sure.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 5: Well, this part though, like I don't think that's what's effective. Right,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 5: Like we can look at there's a big ass billboard
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: on on the Bozeman Hill here, uh, driving west out
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 5: of Yellowstone.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 5: Sal Grizzly Bear has a couple of cubs, big old
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: bull's eye drawn on on mom's back and it says uh, right,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 5: and like hunters look at it and you're like, well, that's
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: a bunch of bullshit, right, But it's like, uh, delisting
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: state management means trophy hunting. And it's the crosshair on
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: the salas back, which everybody knows is.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: Illegal to shoot a solid cubs, right.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 5: But it's like that means something to hunters, right. But
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 5: I think all those argue months should be combined and
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: targeted at outdoor groups and say, Okay, here's here's an
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 5: argument I'm going to make against rock climbing and all
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: rock climbers, and I'm going to bring this as a
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: citizens initiative in the state of Colorado to save raptors. Right,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 5: rock climbers, rock face.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 8: Sounds like we had this discussion because that's that's the
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 8: exact same argument that we that we get on multiple things.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: I want to hear about the rock climbers and raptors.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 5: Okay, well, raptors nest. Okay, we know that rock climbers
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 5: are killing raptors because they're abandoning their nests because of
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 5: all these popular routes. Sons of bitches, Yep, they're picking
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 5: up trash, microplastics. There's no reason that rock climbers should
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 5: be allowed to do this. They're leaving scars on the rocks,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 5: big chalk all over the place, and and it's killing
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 5: these poor birds. And you have the picture of the
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 5: nest and the little abandoned chicks in there screaming for mom.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: You know who's choking on the six pack ring at
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 5: the bottom of the cliff face. All rock climbers are
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 5: doing this, right, None of that shit's true.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 8: Well, to some degree it might be. But the fact
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 8: of the matter is, if you tell it enough, I mean,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 8: you could get people to turn around and buy into
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 8: absolute especially then that's not big of a group of people. No, right, no,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 8: But you think they're going to come out in force
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 8: and go, wait a minute, well I want a rock climb. Well,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 8: I think that the general public would would probably side
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 8: with the environmental side of it if there wasn't a
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 8: good argument from the rock climbing community.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 5: And there's just not enough rock climbers to get out
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: there and be.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 8: Like, well, and that's why we're at that's why we're
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 8: at such a deal. You know, I've heard statements from
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 8: from the specific proponents of these measures that their goal
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 8: to take the low hanging fruit is, you know, take it,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 8: then cut the branch, then cut the tree, and then
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 8: go into the forest. Well, if we're the lowest hanging fruit,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 8: the trappers in the mountain lion hunters, where do you
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 8: go next? I mean your point bear hunting. Would it
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 8: be a archerie, would it be state animal? Would it
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 8: be you know, the iconic moose that we introduced there
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 8: that now they need to be saved so we can
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 8: feed those to the wolves. I mean, I don't I
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 8: don't know, but it's easily it's easily distinguishable to see
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 8: how those lies carry on to the next level because
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 8: they don't have to pick on these guys anymore, because
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 8: these guys are gone. These guys are out of the picture.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 5: Are you gonna make a great case against mountain biking?
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 8: You're just gonna go on the recreation side, now.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: Oh, exactly, hit every recreation group and be like, here's
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 5: here's my bulletproof pr plan to eliminate your special interest group, right,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: and we're going to we can do it all through
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: citizens Initiative because we know there's enough other groups that
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: do not participate and don't necessarily give a shit about
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 5: your thing that you love. And it can all be
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 5: part of a campaign that says this is why this
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 5: whole citizen's initiation of stuff needs to be greatly reworked,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: because it can be manipulated to take away things that
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 5: don't need to be taken away.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 8: And multiple states that I said, you know, twenty six
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 8: have this available to them. There needs to be a
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 8: revision in some capacity, whether it's on the wildlife side
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 8: or just on the citizens petition side itself, because it
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 8: is being manipulated, it's being abused, and it's bastardizing so
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 8: many different things that we're dealing with at so many
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 8: different levels. I mean, you know, you can talk about
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 8: oil and gas or wind in there's ear, solar sighting
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 8: or whatever. Everybody thinks it's good until you say that
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 8: it's going to kill a bunch of wildlife, and it
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 8: is good. I mean, I'm not saying we should get
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 8: rid of any of it. It just needs to be
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 8: appropriately managed. But I don't think that you should get
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 8: you know, some crazy old women standing out front of
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 8: Whole Foods trying to ban everything. Pretty soon we'll be
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 8: running around naked and you know, not being able to
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 8: get what we want.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: One of the ways I think that I hesitate to
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: even say this because I'm giving up. I'm like, uh,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: showing the inside thinking. But a rhetoric I would use
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: in this is one that when I hear it oftentimes
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: causes me to roll my eyes.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: But it would be.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're not a hunter, You're probably certainly not a
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: Bobcat hunter, but do you really want these city slickers
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: telling you how to live your life?
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: Mhm?
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: That would wind up be that's very effective to people.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: And I always go like, oh really really, But that's
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: what I would be pitching big time.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 8: Well, if you look at hot tip for you look
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 8: at look at the where the money comes from. And
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 8: while we while I say that we've gotten money from
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 8: fifty states to unless with this fight, the seed money
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 8: for these efforts from the opposition has come from out
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 8: of state. It's out of state big money. Oh and
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 8: and and because it's coming from the national organizations and
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 8: the and the lunatic one that are out there that
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 8: you know, I mean, you know what? You know what
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 8: polled number one when we did our first poll was
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 8: Carole Baskins off the Tiger King. I mean that that
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 8: was like, well, we don't want her doing our wildlife. Well,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 8: I mean that's where that's what people think about wild life.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: I don't understand what you're saying.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 8: So we did our polling. You asked the questions and
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 8: trying to get people's attention to figure out where their
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 8: psyche was, where their impressions were, perspectives on mountain land
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 8: and Bobcats. Because you asked the question about Carole Baskins
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 8: that polled number one, where all the other stuff about
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 8: conservation and economy and wildlife science and the North American.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: Media disapproval generally a disapproval of her. Yeah, I see,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 8: But but but she's she polls number one, not all
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 8: the good stuff that we should be talking about. She
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 8: polls number one, and we're thinking, well, how they happened.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I still don't understand that Steve famously didn't
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: engage with Tiger King. No, no, no, let's say I did.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 8: Let's say I did.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: I don't understand. What is the poll like?
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 8: So when you ask you you're trying to get a
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 8: feel or a pulse from the general public about how
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 8: you would be able to message to that general public,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 8: and what would resonate with them.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: I understand that, okay, and they're saying, sorry, I didn't.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: If you were saying, like.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Do you have a favorable impression of Baskins as a
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: wildlife manager, yes, they would say resoundingly, I do not
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: have a favorable impression exactly.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 8: But if you said what is the most important to
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 8: you when it comes to wildlife management and you ranked
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 8: it ABC and you said the economy, wildlife, science, sustainable resources,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 8: Carol Baskins. I mean Carole Baskins comes in at the
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 8: top of like, well, we don't want her, we don't
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 8: want her management our wildlife. But they're willing to turn
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 8: around and take some eighty five year old ex uber driver,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 8: you know, because that person doesn't want anything other than
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 8: what Carole Baskins does. And so we are so disconnected
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 8: from wildlife as you all know. For the general public,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 8: I mean, they don't know where they're where the wildlife
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 8: management comes from. They don't know the science behind it.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 8: You talk to people all the time that, well I
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 8: pay my taxes, well good, I'm glad, but very little
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 8: of that goes to wildlife conservation and management. It's from
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 8: licenses the sportsmen and women have historically paid that, and
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 8: it goes from the North American model practices and the
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 8: excise taxes. You can't argue that to somebody that doesn't
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 8: even understand the circle the process. So you have to
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 8: figure out a way to talk to them about how
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 8: hunting and fishing benefits them and wildlife as a whole.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 8: Seventy eight game species of wildlife that's managed in Colorado,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 8: is it really? Yeah? You got nine hundred and sixty
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 8: one species of wildlife and seventy eight of his game species.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm sorry, yeah fish.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, but they but they would they don't want
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 8: any of it, you know, it's they don't want you
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 8: to harvest any of it for any reason.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: So where where does where does the governor of Colorado,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: Governor Polls fit into this?
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: Is it like would this all be happening without him?
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 8: In not to this level?
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 8: This, no, this this uh, this particular individual, his his spouse,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 8: the first gentleman of Colorado is a animal rights extremist
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 8: and he's got well I would like to say he's
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 8: got deep pockets. I think they combined and have deep pockets.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 8: But you look at the support that they get and
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 8: the connections that they have. I mean, it's like a
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 8: giant spider web that what they have. As far as
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 8: the animal rights extremism, and it's not and it's not
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 8: just about wildlife, it's about everything that has to do
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 8: with animals.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: His old man is an animal rights activist.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, extremists terrorist.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 9: He's inserted some people onto the Colorado Wildlife Commission that
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 9: aren't necessarily pro correct.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 8: Not necessarily pro that's an understatement, but yeah.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 9: Which is one way he like he can further his influence, right.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and even through the Department of Agriculture. I mean
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 8: you just look at appointments straight across the board, the
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 8: oversight that's been created with our Game Management Agency because
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 8: of the extremist mentality what we consider to be an
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 8: agenda that should be paid attention to by people from
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 8: all around the country as well. Because that model works.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 8: You know, you might not be able to get what
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 8: you want, but if you put the right people in place,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 8: you can get a lot of what you want, and
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 8: you could do it in a short period of time,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 8: just because you're able to turn around and change the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 8: mindset of management and regulatory components and how structures, you know,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 8: then legislative you know, issues come up to where, well,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 8: this is more favorable to that administration, so there may
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 8: be more likely to support it. I'm you know, I'm considered.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 8: We're sitting around here and granted, and it seems like
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 8: the more and more I do this, I become the
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 8: oldest guy in the room everywhere I go. But you know,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 8: guys like Connor sitting here. I mean, I want him
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 8: to be able to do what he did not kill
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 8: the three hundred day six point before. I don't want
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 8: you to be able to do that. You should be
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 8: able to kill spikes after this, but I want him
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 8: to be able to do it. And while we talk
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 8: about professing to do something for the immediate future, which
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 8: is now coming this November, I want him to be
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 8: able to do it when he's my age, I want
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 8: his kids to be able to do it. And I
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 8: think that that question resonates really really well with our
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 8: stakeholder audience that we've got the hunters and anglers, but
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 8: it resonates well with the non hunter, not the anti
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 8: but the non hunter as well, because they're like, well,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 8: maybe my kid would want to go hunting because my
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 8: neighbor's kid goes hunting and he talked about taking him.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 8: Or you know, they're doing it in scout camp, or
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 8: they're doing it in some sort of outward bound deal.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 8: And it's all preparation for wilderness survival and conservation. And
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 8: there's the American Wilderness Leadership School. We do stuff for
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 8: the National Rifle Association Association, the Youth Outdoor Adventure Camp
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 8: at the Winnington Center, and we sit in kids on scholarships.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 8: The reason you do that is because you're hoping that
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 8: you educate them to be able to participate in this
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 8: and and escalate their and enhance their knowledge of the landscape.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 8: Well did you see what they're doing with the kids
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 8: in Colorado about naming the wolves? So they had a contest.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 8: The governor implemented the contest to name the wolves that
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 8: we introduced, jumped them on the ground, named them.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: Had a big contest because that way, when one of
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: them dies from something, it.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 8: Will be like, I mean, how do you like to
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 8: be the first rancher that has a sheep beating and
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 8: you actually kill it under the tenj rule And somebody says, well,
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 8: that guy killed Maverick, you know, I mean, yeah, I
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 8: mean they're going to be protesting him. They're not going
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 8: to want to eat his beef. It's this indoctrination, this
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 8: psycho analysis that they've done, and even.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: When they got a name like M six, yeah, just you.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 8: Know, B fifty two. But I want to I want
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 8: to see our society recognize the need for content as
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 8: opposed to just talk about it. And I really I
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 8: think that there's.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 3: A lot I mean as opposed to a preservation mentality.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean my grandma used to preserve jam and
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 8: put it on the shelf, and my grandfather always used
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 8: to say, no, that's conservation because I'm going to eat it.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 8: We're not put in there just to preserve it. But
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 8: I want to I want to see. I think with
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 8: what we're trying to accomplish, we have a moment in
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 8: time that we can actually prop up a flag. And
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 8: I don't want to be all sappy about it, but
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 8: it's our chances sportsmen and women in the United States
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 8: to prop up a flag and stop something that could
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 8: dramatically affect about any other state, or any other species,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 8: or any other method of take or season or anything.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 8: Because once you start doing statutory regulations instead of precedent.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 8: I mean, it's easy for everybody else to go, well,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 8: they did it over here. Sure, all we have to
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 8: do is change this species or take this out. And
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 8: I wanted to bring up because.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: There's two things I want to do though, Yeah, so
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: hold that thought, because the two things I want to
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: do is, uh.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: One, I want to explore how certain the outcome is.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: You might look at this and look at some of
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: the demographics we're talking about and look and be like that,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: you know, the governors behind it, certain certain environmental groups
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: that a lot of name recognition are behind it. It
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: must be that like, like, hunters are automatically going to lose,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: but they don't always lose. No, Maine beat a bear
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: hunting band yep, some years back. Montana beat a public
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: land trapping band overwhelmingly recently, very different politics.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 9: Arizona is similar to Colorado, and they beat a cat
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 9: hunting band.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 8: So they didn't they didn't even get signatures down there
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 8: because they did such a formidable campaign to make sure
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 8: they didn't get the signatures.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not that's the bright side. The not
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: bright side is you lose.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 3: A lot too. And and I could name a bunch
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: of states that have lost a bunch of stuff. But
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 3: point being, the fact that it's on the ballot doesn't
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: mean it's one.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: No, like this is going to be decided. It might
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: be tight, but this is going to be something that's
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: decided down the future. Like it's not This isn't news
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: of something that happened. This is news of something that's
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: coming and will be addressed in the future.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: So that's the first point I want to make, and
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: I want to make as you continue your thought, what
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: is the most productive thing, the most helpful thing that
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: people can do.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 8: Give me a bunch of money?
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: Okay? And yeah.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: Something the other day that was and I don't know
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 4: if this is true or not, but it was something like,
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 4: if every person who applies for non resident ELK in Colorado,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 4: We're to send you twenty dollars.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: Yep, you'd have the what anticipated are you serious? The
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 3: war chest? Yeah, the war chest.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 4: Sort of amounting yeah, yeah, And so like you have
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 4: a number's apply.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: Brody's applying is a cowsking like this, Brody just found
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: he's gonna play. He's applying his kids, Oh to wear Colorado.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 5: That's fine.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: So Brody's got to send you sixty bucks.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 8: Ye, well, you're you're exactly right.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a war you have a number that
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 4: you need for a war chest to fight this, you
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 4: know effectively. Yeah, And it's a number that people who
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 4: are spending money on their hunting dreams down the line
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 4: can can pull together without too much heartache on anyone.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 8: We've been working with Howl for Wildlife on a bunch
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 8: of different things, trying to get a message out and
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 8: they they've got a really unique system to be able
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 8: to deal with the legislative side of things throughout the
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 8: country and they've been really effective over the last two years.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 8: But they're helping us dramatically on this, which is kind
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 8: of the first ballot in issue that they've actually engaged
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 8: in to this degree. And one of the arguments that
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 8: we've actually given is to your point, it's almost two
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 8: hundred thousand non resident applications that come in and they're
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 8: coming in now. It goes all the way. The deadline
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 8: is April second, but you have to buy a qualifying license.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 8: I think it's thirty nine to fifty four bucks, depending
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 8: on which one you get. You got to buy preference points,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 8: you have to pay pay application fees. If every person
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 8: that put in for the state of Colorado would just
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 8: take some of what they're already given Colorado that they
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 8: don't get anything out of unless they draw a license.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 8: I mean, just you don't even you're putting money in
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 8: for a lottery ticket. But we know that we're not
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 8: all gonna I mean, you got eleven percent success out
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 8: of your deal, but you know you're an anomaly. So
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 8: I mean your twenty bucks. Yeah, he doesn't need to
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 8: hunt Colorado.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 5: So we know the folks are paying the taxi duringy bill. Okay,
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 5: so coff it out.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you don't get to get out of here unless
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 8: you pay ahead of time. But we we have a
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 8: funded mechanism in the United States with people that apply
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 8: all around the country just for the opportunity to apply.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 8: We're just asking people to help support our cause so
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 8: we can fight for the opportunity for them to continue
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 8: to apply. I mean mountain lions, you know they don't
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 8: eat celery and kale. I mean they eat deer in
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 8: elk and wolves are going to do the same thing.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 8: Our bear population has expanded significantly. They're going to eat
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 8: you know, a lot of deer and elk. You have
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 8: that many apex predators on the landscape with five point
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 8: nine million people and habitat loss and you know the
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 8: amount of recreation that we have. Our elk populations and
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 8: deer populations are not in peril. What are they going
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 8: to be in ten years? I mean, we have to
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 8: do some sort of preparation for down the road, for
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 8: sustainable management opportunities.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: As other as irritates people. This is the thing that
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: troubles me.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: Uh if you say, like if a hunter, if a
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: big game hunter says, oh no, no, no, you know, I
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: welcome predators being on the ground.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 8: Oh yeah, but.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: I like predator control because I like there to be
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of deer and elk. A lot of people
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: view that.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: It as like a like a non defendable position, right,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: But it's so funny because you see it reflected.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: So widely in the animal kingdom. You know, kyotes ketch
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: a wolf, or wolves ketch a kyote, they kill it.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Kyote's ketch a fox, they kill it. It's sort of
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: this general tendency to want to be like, no, I'm
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: defending my hunk of the piece of the pie. But
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's that problematic, you know, I feel
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: that that hunters should be like morally emboldened to go
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: and say no, I want to defend high numbers of
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: dar and elk to support the hunting that I want
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: to do. Like I'm after, I'm chasing that number, like
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: high harvestable surpluses of dearon elk, and I will take
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: that fight to people that want to degrade habitat right,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: which is gonna chip into my surplus. I'll take that
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: fight to people that want to degrade any kind of
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: predator control because that's fighting into my thing and that's
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: what I'm chasing, and that's what I'm interested in.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: Like that, to me is a totally defendable position.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 8: I think to like, I'm pro deer and elk, you're
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 8: pro dearing elk, but your pro wildlife period You know
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 8: I went through this.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: I do know.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 3: I advocate for listen man, never have, never will.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: I do not advocate for the removal of any native wildlife.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 8: No ever, no, and and so nor do I. I
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 8: didn't vote for the wolf deal because I don't think
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 8: it should be done by ballot box. Biology understand citizens initiatives.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 8: I mean if they walk or they walk in well
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 8: they did like they did that we had to turn
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 8: around and kind of influence, you know, an ongoing program
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 8: for that. I don't I don't believe in ballot box
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 8: biology for any wildlife make a decision. If that's the case,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 8: why do we have three hundred and fifty scientists in
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 8: our agency. I don't think that the Gallant Whole Foods
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 8: are the lift driver or the guy that drives for
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 8: ups or the rock Rockies left fielder. I don't think
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 8: they should be able to turn around and you know, yeah,
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 8: I don't think they should be able to turn around
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 8: and decide what our wildlife management agencies are stuck with,
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 8: you know, I mean it puts them into such a
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 8: significant position of trying to do what's right when they're
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 8: forced to do something that they know doesn't balance with
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 8: what their management plans on seventy other game species are.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 9: Have you seen any backlash, Like in the COVID era,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 9: it became like this thing, like like we always say
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 9: trust the science, trust the biologists, but it's also become
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 9: this thing in the last few years to be like, well,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 9: the scientists are full of shit, like people. It's a
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 9: thing now where people don't trust the science, and like
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 9: I see that as kind of a challenge when you're
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 9: like trust these wildlife management agencies, because a lot of
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 9: people are have a tendency to.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 3: Not do that.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: Trust the science is law. I can't say it anymore,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: I know, but because you know, yeah, but that trust
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: the science thing after COVID it needs a break because
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: it got so abused by everybody on all sides where
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: you like the science is whatever.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: You right, So in this argument from your body at
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: the maybe.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 9: It's a tough position to put you know, these agencies
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 9: and to be like trust trust as well.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 8: But in my argument to that has been followed the science, right,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 8: you got you got fifty eighty one hundred years of
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 8: data and science and studies and population densities and models
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 8: and objectives. To me, that's that's worthy. When somebody comes
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 8: out from March seventeenth of twenty twenty to March thirtieth
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 8: and says, follow the science, wear a mask at all
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 8: these shots. Okay, well two weeks of science really isn't
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 8: what I want to follow. That's that's that's more of
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 8: what I want you to do. Forty fifty sixty years.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 8: I think that that's a track record that you can use.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 8: You can sustainably support and because because there's so many
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 8: other components of that.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I think a lot of people would have
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 9: no clue that since mountain lions like across the board
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 9: where they became managed as game animals, Yep, there's way
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 9: more of them now than there was, say eighty or
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 9: one hundred years ago.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: Instead of trust the science, sorry, anam, Instead of trust
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: the science, I'm like, trust the process when you've had
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: similar things happen. We're trying to with federal the federal
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: government trying to influence Alaska's wildlife manager practices, for instance,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: like helmet by, what right do you have to go
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: after them? They have a completely intact menagerie of wildlife.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: They have wolves and grizzlies occupying like I don't know
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: what ninety six percent of historic range. They don't have
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: extra patients. They're still trying to go in catalog wildlife.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: They're not in recovery mode. Where is the criticism with
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: Colorado fishing gimmick? Where is the evidence that they're messing up?
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 9: Yeah, but even in Alaska they've tried to with a
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 9: whole like crawling into dens.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: Well, no, that's what I'm saying, Like I'm talking about
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: that attack on them. It is like where like show
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: me where Alaska fishing game, Like show me where they're
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: screwing up, or with with fishing with Colorado, Like show
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: me where the state is messing up.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: Can you go and point to.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: Me that that is it? What was the FW What
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: is it there? FWP is not f WP.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: It's CW change prks in Colorado, Okay, whatever the hell.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: Colorado's Fishing Game Agency and it's in its current form
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: over decades. Show me where they have been letting game
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: animals uh slip through their grasp and slip into extinction
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: or slip into extirpation.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: It's like there's no evidence. Maybe they might make little mistakes.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: Everyone does. There's no evidence that they're shitting the bed.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: So it's like trust the science, going like I don't know,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: trust the last seventy five.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: Years or whatever the hell it is that they're not
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: like losing.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, yeah, we were supposed to be
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: managing those but they all they're gone now.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 8: We didn't even know they were here.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 3: It's just not happening, Like they're not messing up.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 4: I think I think one challenge is like the average
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 4: person on the street probably thinks of mountain lions as
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 4: like this rare, inherently threatened thing because they don't see them, right,
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 4: It's not standing in some agfield as they blow by
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 4: on the interstate.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 3: And so I think like that is probably a big.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 4: Challenge in the educational components, Like these animals are thriving
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 4: over the past, however many decades, and it's especially you know,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 4: impactful when you consider all the habitat that's been lost
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 4: as the front range is grown and all this stuff.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 4: Like the average person on the street, I wonder did
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 4: they even know like the story of mountain lions in Colorado,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: I'd wager or not.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 8: No. And to that point, I mean before the wolf
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 8: issue came up, when when the wolf proponents went out
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 8: and asked and they've got a video on their website,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 8: they went out and asked people about do we have
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 8: wolves in Colorado? And overwhelming like people like yeah, I
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 8: think so, don't we not sure? Yeah? Well i'd like to.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 8: I mean, so they were priming the pump for that ignorance.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 8: It's not stupidy, it's just ignorance. And I think it's
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 8: on the mountain lion.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: I became a trick question because some had just shown
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: up exactly.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, it's like, but I think, I think
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 8: that trying to convince people of your of your perspectives
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 8: from the misinformation is the way that most of our
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 8: losses have happened around the country when it comes to wildlife.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 8: I mean, you just like you said, you just you
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 8: create this this fake story out there, and you say
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 8: it enough and pretty much people start to believe it.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 8: But but and I want to cover this because our
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 8: organizations that were all members of that we support that
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 8: were that, you know, we get the magazines on a
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 8: regular basis, all the academ groups, they do the yeoman's work.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 8: I've said this over and over. I'm partners with them,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 8: but they haven't done a very damn good job for
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 8: the last forty years of talking to the general public.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 8: They talk to the sportsman community, they talk to the
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 8: to the agriculture community. Because they work close close, hand
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 8: in hand with them. We need to start advertising. We
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 8: need to start talking regularly to the general public to
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 8: tell the conservation story and making sure that you know,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 8: I mean, every Christmas time everybody sees the ASPCA and
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 8: the Humane Society commercials and stuff that are out there.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 8: Not all that money goes to, you know, helping the
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 8: little puppies and the kittens. I mean, that's an advertising employee.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: HSUS and local humane societies are two different things.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 9: For a while, there were those hug a Hunter campaigns.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 9: It seems like those things kind of died out.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 8: We're doing the campaign that you talk about. I'm the
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 8: chair of the Wildlife Council and I've been on that
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 8: for seven years. It started in nineteen ninety eight, and
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 8: that changes and morphs into something regularly to differ with
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 8: public perception. Because your demographics that you were talking to
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 8: between eighteen and thirty four, if you did that twenty
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 8: years ago, they were you know, now they're fifty five
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 8: or whatever the hell it is. So they have different
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 8: perspectives and perceptions, so they need to be educated differently.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 8: But hopefully you did a good enough job on that
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 8: target audience. But then you've got so many of the
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 8: other ones that are coming in underneath of that that
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 8: they're being able to name wolves, you know, and and
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 8: hopefully somebody didn't kill you know, Margaret the wolf because
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 8: they're going to be bastardized for it. Well, then those
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 8: kids get a bad perception on wolf management because it
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 8: didn't work, and it's the wolf that they named. Well,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 8: if they start doing that with mountain wins and deer
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 8: and elk and everything else. I mean, why do you
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 8: think Bambi is such a bad deal? You know, it's
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 8: because we all grew up and you know, Bambi's dad
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 8: got killed.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, you get in the name and bus people
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: name them because they want to get.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 8: Them exactly, you know, exactly.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 3: You know, if a buck's got a name, you watch that.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: I like hug of Houndsman, that'd be a good little
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 3: campaign for Yannie. I'll go give Yanni.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 5: Was that campaign successful?
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 8: That campaign was extremely successful. And the reason being is
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 8: because they didn't talk to us in this room. They
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 8: talked to the general public. That's why it was so successful.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 8: I mean, I joked about it. The reason I got
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 8: on is as the counsel and I applied because they
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 8: came up with a talking deer campaign and I thought, Okay,
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 8: it's just not the way that we needed. Yeah yeah,
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 8: just like the talking bass on the wall or something.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 8: But the reason I got involved because I thought that
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 8: that wasn't the right way to go, and they the
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 8: council had that that one campaign that one year, but
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 8: the hug a hunter deal that resonated with the people
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 8: that were out in the field that didn't hunt because
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 8: they understood where some of that money was coming from,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 8: so they could actually know that wildlife was taking care
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 8: of appropriately and that it was on the landscape. Now
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 8: that we've got a different demographic, our audience has changed.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 8: We have a Science in the Wild campaign that's going
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 8: on right now. It started November fifteenth and it's going
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 8: all the way through this next June. But it is
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 8: I mean, you put you put thirty different people in line,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 8: and you put a game boarden or somebody with a
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 8: badge and an emblem and a gun in the truck
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 8: with a badge on it, and you say, who do
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 8: you trust to manage your wildlife? People point to the
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 8: game boarding. They don't point to the pink haired nosering extremist.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 8: You know, they don't point to me or you because
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 8: we're standing there doing They want the expert taking care
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 8: of it. And I think pushing that narrative in that
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 8: tone resonates with the target audience enough to where they go,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 8: I want experts to do my work, and I'm confident
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 8: that when November fifth comes along with our campaign that
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 8: we're going to have to do in August, September, and October,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 8: I'm confident that the people will enough of the people
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 8: will make it the right decision because they care about
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 8: Colorado's wildlife. But you know, people all around the country
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 8: better pay attention as well, because you've got to figure
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 8: out a way to build up your armament, build up
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 8: your war chest, and make sure that you prepare for
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 8: the inevitable, because, like you mentioned, Steve, I mean, we're
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 8: not singular. It goes to every state in some capacity,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 8: you know. I mean it might be crayfish, might be muskrats,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 8: might be whatever. But it's going wherever they want to
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 8: take it that they feel the path of least resistance
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 8: and they feel a chink in the armor.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: So at a point, how many months is November away,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know, eight in eight months, they'll come down
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 3: to voting. Right now, you made it. I said, what
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: can people do? And you said, you know, jokingly but truthfully,
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 3: any money? Yeah, and where does the money need to go?
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 8: So the money needs to go? You can go on
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 8: to the website and Save the Hunt Colorado dot com
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 8: and there's a couple different options there that you can
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 8: participate in. The reason that we need the funding is
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 8: because the extremist have an endless amount of funding to
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 8: do a variety of different things. They're fighting, you know,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 8: twenty things in twenty different states at different levels. We
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 8: need to be able to go punch for punch, tit
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 8: for tat with them on advertising because we're both talking
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 8: to the same audience. They're trying to get that middle
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 8: of the road eighty percent. We're trying to get the
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 8: middle of the road eighty percent. We're going to sway
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 8: some and they're going to sway some. But look how
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 8: close to wolf deal was at fifty one to forty nine.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 8: If we're anywhere in that ballpark, we're gonna win. But
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 8: we have to be able to advertise to that audience
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 8: and get them to understand first about the science, second
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 8: about the experts that actually provide the science, and third
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 8: how it actually affects those individuals, just for they so
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 8: they know that they have sustainable wildlife populations on the landscape.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 8: Everybody likes to see deer and elk, Everybody likes to
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 8: see bighorn sheep. You know that's you know I did
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 8: to deal with Shane Mahoney, and Shane says one of
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 8: the biggest things that all recreationists do is when they
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 8: go out to recreate rock climb without messing up the
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 8: raptor's nest and everything, killing everyone, killing every one of them.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 8: But he said, everybody that goes out and they see wildlife,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 8: the first thing they do is they come home and
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 8: tell people about the wildlife they saw. They didn't automatically
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 8: start telling them about their rock climbing incident or their
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 8: mountain bike rack or whatever, unless they were you know,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 8: bunnged up or something. But they tell them about the wildlife.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 8: They tell them about I saw a mountainlon or I
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 8: heard a wolf, or I saw a moose, or I
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 8: saw a coyote eat rabbit. Because because we connect with nature,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 8: once people understand how that connection affects them and where
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 8: it comes from, they're more likely to support the science
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 8: and follow the science and follow the component that has
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 8: been able to fuel and fund that whole program for
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 8: the last you know, one hundred and twenty five years.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 8: So if they go to save the hunt coloradder dot com,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 8: they can contribute. There's also the initiatives that are on
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 8: the website that they can look at. Initiative ninety one
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 8: is the one that we're dealing with, even though that's
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 8: not going to be the final initiative. They'll change the
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 8: number when they get through the process to put it
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 8: on the ballot. But we want people to educate themselves
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 8: and educate their peers and congregation and coworkers and everybody,
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 8: because without education, we're no better as far as the
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 8: ignorance on the landscape as well. You know, Yannie talked
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 8: about the hound part of it. Read the initiatively specifically
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 8: wants to take hound hunting out along with mountain lion hunting.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 8: But they talk about electronic ecollers, training callers. They testified
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 8: during their Supreme Court or their title Board hearings. Their
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 8: attorney did that, we don't think you should hunt with
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 8: any dog period. Read the language in there. If they
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 8: set that as statutory language, what about upland bird dogs,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 8: what about waterfowl dogs, what about coon dogs? I mean,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 8: guys are starting to pay attention because they read what
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 8: it says, not what somebody interprets it. And it's like, well,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 8: it doesn't say mountain lion dogs.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 3: Because a view into their mindset.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 8: Exactly and you can understand where people should really pay
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 8: close attention. I did a presentation on Saturday to the
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 8: Fremont Cattleman's Association in Colorado, and I said that, and
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 8: one guy said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 8: does that include stock dogs? That's one right now, it's
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 8: not mentioned in here. But why couldn't you turn around
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 8: and go to an animal cruelty deal because you want
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 8: to use electronic training devices or collars on your dogs.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 8: So it's people need to read into the intent of
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 8: what they're trying to accomplish with this. They need to
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 8: understand that it's not singular. They need to understand you
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 8: could the way it's written, you could take bobcats and
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 8: mountain lions out and put any other species in. But
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 8: then look at the other components of that. Educate yourself.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 8: Because these guys are so well structured and their plans
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 8: are so well formulated that you know they're looking at
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 8: New Mexico, they're looking at Arizona, they're looking at Nevada,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 8: because if they're successful in Colorado, they don't have to
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 8: go to Colorado again unless it's on another species. So
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 8: they go to the next state and they start to
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 8: build that momentum with the legislators, then the message starts
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 8: to resonate well with the general public, and pretty soon
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 8: the lies just take over, like locus on the cornfield.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 5: Well, I think you know one thing is we kind
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 5: of start to wrap up here. Broad and diverse coalitions
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 5: are what really win these fights, right, So as we
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 5: narrow way down right, we already discussed like if you're
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 5: the hound hunter representing the hound hunters groups and you're
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 5: trying to fight a major political campaign like this, you're
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 5: you're just you're outnumbered, you don't have as much of
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 5: a voice. So a broad, diverse coalition gains your your
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 5: your voice, right yeah, and your public awareness of the issue.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 5: So I will tell you, like, if you have pink
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 5: hair and a nos ran, if you're an old lady
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 5: at Whole Foods, we want you damn straight. We want you.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 5: Like if you like going outside and you're talking like
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 5: Shae Mahoney says, you went out and did your thing,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 5: and you like talking about that wildlife that's out there,
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 5: you got to understand that this boring story that CPW
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 5: tells of like no major like oh my god, we
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 5: had to bring something back from the brink right, that's
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 5: because they're out there doing their jobs right, And like
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 5: good conservation stories come from catastrophic failures like crash of
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 5: duck numbers. Right, we talk about ducks all the time.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 5: Is this huge win, But it's because we damn near
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 5: kill them all Right, We're talking these stories about grizzly bears,
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 5: but all that stuff in between, it's like it's been
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 5: a boring story because we've been winning, we've been made maintaining,
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 5: we're keeping that diversity of habitat. So you need to
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 5: understand that and appreciate it. We need to get more
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 5: diverse and more broad and talk to these groups that
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 5: you know, at first blush don't align with us. So
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 5: like hab if you're a mountain biker, rock climber, backcountry skier,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 5: all of these things can be regulated to death, and
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 5: little fights like this have broad implications. Right, So broad.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 8: Government oversight is one thing. Extreme oversight from the general
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 8: public to some degree, and I'm talking a very minute
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 8: section of the general public. That extremism is what's going
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 8: to alter so many different things that people look at
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 8: when it comes to outdoor recreation and conservation and wildlife management.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 8: Because there's a small group that has the squeaky wheel
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 8: and they they're well funded, and the majority of our
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 8: community just wants to go hunt. We just want to
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 8: turn around and go scout and check our gain cameras
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 8: and get ready for season and do well. I mean,
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 8: what we're talking about right now is the least entertaining
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 8: component of your of your deal, your your dog deal,
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 8: the story you're l hunt. Nobody wants to listen to
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 8: this crap, but they have to listen to it if
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 8: they expect to be able to turn around and have
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 8: the story that you had and have the story that
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 8: you have, and to be able to do that what
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 8: you did, not what you did. But when I'm not
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 8: that big, yeah, not that big, they go back to
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 8: the spike. We're eating forty years of spike hunting. And
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 8: then but if we want to actually engage in that conversation,
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 8: there has to be a component of buy in from
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 8: the general public. And I think that the public is
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 8: there and wants to be educated. We were seeing that
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 8: on this level, the people that are reaching out at
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 8: so many different levels. I mean, I can't tell you
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 8: how many people just walk up to you and go,
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 8: hey I heard or hey I saw you or Hey,
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 8: I was told and they want to be They want
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 8: to be part of the solution. They want to be
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 8: part of the victory, not part of the problem. Hit
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 8: them again with where to go? Okay, save the hunt
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 8: Colorado dot com. There's a couple of different upper who
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 8: need is there. You can actually you can actually get
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 8: into a couple of different raffles that SCI is running
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 8: to help fund this measure.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 3: Giving any guns out. He can get a better working gun.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 8: Yeah, there is actually a gunworks. Gun is on there
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 8: to talk about shoes. So you can give me your
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 8: fifty dollars. Now, you can go on there, you can donate.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 8: You can look at everything that we're doing as far
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 8: as videos and stuff. You can go on Instagram and
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 8: Facebook and find us cowm is on Instagram and call
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 8: Ruddings for Responsible Wilach Management on Facebook. I do want
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 8: to mention something. If you got time because of the
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 8: lies and deceit, I'm going to read you this and
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 8: I want you guys to get me your impression. This
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 8: is the ballot title for Denver this year, just for
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 8: the city and county voters of Dinner. It says, shall
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 8: the voters of the City and County of Denver adopted
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 8: an Ordinance concerning the Prohibition of fur Products and in
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 8: conjunction beginning of July first to twenty twenty five, prohibiting
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 8: the manufacturer, distribution, display, sale, or trade of certain animal
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 8: fur products in the city and providing limited exceptions to
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 8: the prohibition. They're talking about leather, two, No, but they're
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 8: talking about beaver felt cowboy hats. They're talking about fly
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 8: fishing material and yeah, yeah.
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: So when I asked about leather, I was just being
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: cute because somehow, once take the fur off, everybody's cool
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 8: Oh yeah, but you start. When you start, it doesn't
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 8: say that until you read it in the measure. This
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 8: is what they'll vote on for the title. You read
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 8: it in the measure and you go, what do you
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 8: mean in Denver? You can't buy a cowboy?
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 3: It's the death of the el caricatus.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I mean, look at all the mank
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 8: and the beaver stuff that's put on the on the
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 8: fly fishing lures and on the fishing lures and stuff.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 8: You start, you start putting in. There's a there's a
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 8: component into that deal that they they made exceptions or
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 8: exemptions because they did they wanted to be uh hit
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 8: politically correct. So Native Americans can sell their artwork and
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 8: their crafts in the city of Denver, but you have
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 8: to be white or non to be able to buy it. Well,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 8: how many times did the Denver March Powell or the
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 8: Indian market. Do you see that Native Americans are selling
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 8: to Native Americans? Maybe a little bit, But if you
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 8: if you're white and you want to go there, you
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 8: can't buy it because it says you have to be
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 8: Indigenous to be able to do it. They are feeding
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 8: off of the lies and deceit of the general public
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 8: on that the Slaughterhouse Band, the Mountain Lion and bobcat Ban.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 8: And I hope that the general public wakes up, not
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 8: just in Colorado, but these things go on all around
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 8: the country and people go, well, oh, that happened in Cleveland,
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 8: or that happened in Dallas or that because it didn't
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 8: affect them. It's happening everywhere. And we have to figure
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 8: out a way to plant our flag draw line in
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 8: the sand and say, if the science says that we shouldn't,
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 8: then maybe that's what we should look at, especially from
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 8: a conservation standpoint. But I mean, you guys have the
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 8: ability to give a synopsis, a synthesize things that are
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 8: going on in the landscape. I'd encourage people to reach
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 8: out at every level to say, hey, there's something going
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 8: on in Washington, DC, or something going on in Sacramento,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 8: because the average person doesn't know, and I'm not trying to,
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 8: you know, jump your inbox up. You're probably already have
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 8: that enough as it is. But you know, sorry, you're in.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 8: But no, we we appreciate the opportunity to kind of
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 8: bring a little bit of a message to light because
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 8: it's something serious enough in Colorado that if we fall
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 8: in Colorado this year, you're going to see a lot
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 8: of other things happen behind this because it's easy to
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 8: turn around and take their momentum momentum and move it
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 8: to the next level.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: Well, man, I appreciate you coming on, Appreciate the time,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 3: Tell the site, tell where to go one more time.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 8: Save the hunt Colorado dot com. It's the Colorado's for
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 8: Responsible Wildlife Management and you can get a lot of
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 8: information on there. But if they got if they have wishes,
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 8: once and desires, they could reach out and contact us
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 8: through the email chain on there as well.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 11: Do it at the same time that you're applying for
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 11: your Colorado ELP tag. Just then pop over to CWRM
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 11: and CRWVRWNC give you twenty.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: Bucks, Dan Gates, thanks for coming on.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 8: Thanks you're doing. Thank you very much.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 14: It's the Meter Podcast. It's the Meter Podcast, start to
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 14: day on ride with Ranilla and the crew.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 12: With the Conservation Mind come the same. It's the Meat Podcast.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 14: It's the Meter Podcast.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 12: It's the Meat Podcast. It's the Me Farther Mooting the
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 14: Lot in nothing le