Latest / Skin Anarchy / Lisa Goodman, founder of GoodSkin Clinics

Transcript

Lisa Goodman, founder of GoodSkin Clinics · Skin Anarchy

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I have another amazing guest today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to introduce you guys to Lisa Goodman, who is the founder of Good Skin Clinics.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show, Lisa.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you had the time.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, of course.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And really happy to be here and share as much as I can.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's my honor to host you, and I would love to get started by really kind of diving into your background and your career journey because I think that's a great starting place to get um, you know, some information about how you started Good Skin.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, love to share.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh let's let's try to make it as simple as possible.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: We have plenty of time, so please give us all the details.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I, you know, it it really started when I was a teenager.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my mom has a skin condition called Vitiligo, and that she developed when I was around 17 or so.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, she got it after my father had a bad car accident.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And basically her immune system, what happens with vitiligo, if anyone listening doesn't know, is that her the immune system attacks the pigment cells.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's what Michael Jackson had.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's been some famous people who have had it, and it's it's basically like wearing your disease on your on your skin, like for everyone to see, which is um, so I firsthand saw how just the mental impact of that, and then had a real desire to get into dermatology.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I at the time Botox was barely even around, and um, there wasn't the aesthetic clinics that are out now.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I uh yeah, so I I basically just had this real moment where I thought, like, wow, if you could really help people with their skin, it can really change the way they feel about themselves.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and um so that that was like around 17, and I had this really also strange dream, which is so weird now because I had a strange dream when I was like 18 that um I had like a skincare, I was in dermatology, a skincare clinic, and also that um it was about wellness.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was also like that there were just like juices, and because my mom, in my mom looking to control her vitiligo, she explored an auto, you know, autoimmune diet, which was what you now would be considered gluten-free and anti-inflammatory, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time wasn't very popular, it was not mainstream like now.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so she would go to this little place in the valley called Follow Your Heart and get all these like weird sprouted foods that just it wasn't mainstream like now, and so um the the funny part about that is now the LA Clinic is next to creation, which is a juice place, which was this was not this was not planned, but foreshadowing nonetheless, it is so strange, so weird.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that though.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, and I and I feel like the best things are always inspired, you know, in the most unique way, you know.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So at an early age, you you had an inspiration.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, and you followed it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I followed it, yeah, and I followed it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then I shadowed a really famous dermatologist and landed a job in her office at a really young age um and learned dermatology for 10 years and helped.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I ran a skincare, an acne skincare clinic there.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I helped a lot of people with their skin, and I think that really gave me, I'm very happy that I paid my dues in the skincare world to like really understand the foundation of all this stuff.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I I felt a little kind of this was when Botox and fillers were just becoming very popular, and it was kind of this thing that only the celebrities and very wealthy people did.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it still is sometimes.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think of it still like that.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, and I and I hope we can, you know, dem democratize it, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think there's value for quality that can be paid for, but I also think that there's like it it doesn't have to be like only the rich people can have good treatments, it doesn't have to be like that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so anyhow, so I was in this office and I thought that it was really fascinating these Botox and fillers, but I was also a little young and thought like, oh, I'm not so sure that um that were you I had this kind of like gut feeling that like, and I saw it, like people weren't necessarily looking better year after year.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: They were, you know, kind of changing their authenticity or the way they looked a bit, um, which is okay if someone's looking for that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I just um something didn't sit right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got the opportunity when I was um 30, I was already 10 years at this at this famous dermatologist office, and I got the opportunity to shadow a plastic surgeon in France and basically learn.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh I thought it was gonna be me showing up and basically saying, like, oh, I work in this fancy office in Los Angeles and I know everything.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, but yeah, it was a really quick reschool on uh uh framing these injectables in a different way.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: The Europeans had had Botox far longer than the US.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they always are so ahead, aren't they?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: With like yeah, medicine.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't deal with FDA approval, so that can be both good and bad.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a certain layer that it's it's strange because I've I've met some people that have had like some non-FDA approved treatments that can be awesome and then also can be not not great.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that there's just like a healthy, it's good, it's good to be a well-informed patient, you know.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um absolutely, absolutely.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I you know, I love that you have this this beginning.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh your journey is it's it's really rooted in your own um life story.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I really I think you know, when I see that, it always like gears me towards, you know, wanting to look more into what I'm you know, as a consumer buying.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I really believe that's really at the heart of this podcast for me is like really hearing the story, you know.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to I want to shift focus and um talk about your the Good Skin Clinic and really some of the um foundations that you really started on.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it it all was laid in France.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I ended up basically living part-time there um and ended uh was in a relationship there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So basically was very meshed into having more colleagues, being exposed to their techniques.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was a real blessing and fortune in my life.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so then Good Skin Clinics was established because I was given some of these like basic pearls and or like, I don't know, like real beautiful techniques.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, I really want to share these with people.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And originally we opened with a small clinic um on in Brentwood, and I was a hundred percent convinced that no one would understand what we were doing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, like this, I was really like this.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you say that two days a week?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I had come from the idea that you go where the person has the most pictures on the room on the wall or like marketing.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was convinced that like, and I also was convinced that Los Angeles wasn't ready um for this uh for the like to care about the refinement of the process, to care about like I'd say what French culture does well, which is like care about the details.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and it matters, yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you see that in like all aspects of the culture.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it just might make sense.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because and that's very random, but I know that like you know, when you imagine someone getting a really bad nose job, for some reason it's always linked them to America.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I never hear about it in like France or like you know what I mean?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, and that just makes me go, you know, am I just am I imagining this or is there some you know some truth behind this?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean it's interesting that you learned from the best, you know, that's that's what matters.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and was a fortunate turn.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then it um the the really funny joke in my office is that the office manager, we have two clinics on each coast, and then the office manager, I hired her to make coffee because when the first month we were just like it was like I thought two people were gonna show up, and she was basically the office manager of like handling a freaking schedule within you know three months, and she's like, Oh, you didn't tell me it was gonna be, I thought it was making coffee, and now she's like running two clinics, but um it's really it's really like moving to see that people do care about the quality and detail and thought of the of the work before the work because that's really what good skin does.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, do you have when you first got your customers?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did they have like any feedback for you, like why they ended up coming to you?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just mentioned the whole, you know, like you didn't have the whole glitz and glamour yet with the you know, the pictures and the advertising.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So did they mention to you what retracted them?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's funny.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a technique um that's widely known that I actually like traveled to multiple countries to learn.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I actually kind of chased it for me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a treasure hunt.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I kept asking reps like who really invented this, who really invented this technique?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I ended up in Geneva um shadowing this um this doctor who is credited with this beautiful technique, which is called blanching.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: In America, we would say blanching.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's this beautiful technique that you can basically kind of erase a fine line without looking like there's a filler or puffiness there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time, seven years ago, I mean, like it, it's I hear it talked about more at conferences, so it's not that it's it's not information that's like not out there, it's just maybe harder to find.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So women are really good at when there's something special.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: They they kind of whisper that something special to all their friends, they don't yell it though, they whisper it like a like, oh my god, did you hear?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so it's a secret, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well kept secret.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it was this.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I always I joke though, that it was this technique called blanching or blanching that like people would be like, Oh, do you go to uh you know, I people come in about you did this blanching thing for my friend.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then we'd have to say, like, okay, well, let's first diagnose you and make sure it's correct for you, because that's part of it being working, is it has to be diagnostically correct for you.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um, that the techniques, like just the technique names themselves, had have spread actually very rapidly, where um people come in already going, like, oh, you did this technique for my friend, and I saw the difference, I saw the quality, I saw like so they're coming in off of that, you know, they're they're coming off the quality of work, not necessarily the marketing of the PR.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that must have been amazing to hear those, you know, initial reviews and see how it's spreading.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I think sometimes that's a good thing when it spreads like that, you know, in the beginning, the the word of mouth, because you get people who are really going to look at your work and and be honest, you know, and and come to you with like a full understanding of what they're you know, what to expect, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it it kind of what something that I think about too is that like sometimes I've been doing this now for 12 years or 13 years or so, and it's like when you're known for the quality of your work, you don't get to take a day off in that, and that's fine.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm happy to meet that um that I don't know, that like standard or requirement, meaning like you don't just get to go in a room and say, like, hi, now you and when meet you, it's like, no, no, like you need to show up and perform and and deliver that standard of care, not even care, but like that technique and that level every time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it holds you as a practitioner to another level, which is it it can be it can be it's not it can be intimidating, or it can also be like, hey, it's kind of cool, it keeps me interested.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of rejuvenating, yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I can totally totally understand that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to actually um not shift focus, but I want to ask you about um, you know, I know you guys have a very specific plan that you've put together and that you really you've got a you know a protocol, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: That you go through.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So can you tell us?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I think um the first thing, like the secret sauce.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I always like, I'm always happy to share like the keys to the secret sauce of having the great outcomes.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you need great techniques, um, but before you can even get to that technique, because the technique would be the tool, you need to first have really good diagnostic tools, meaning like figuring out what is going to be the best tool for the problem for that patient's tissues.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so we always do say, like, don't pick off a menu.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: The first step is diagnosing and tailoring the treatment to you, which is why we do have a very high retention rate for medical squash, because because when people purchase a product, they're they're most of the time, I can't say all the time because we're still dealing with people, but they're most of the time not disappointed because we have diagnosed the problem correctly and gone to a lot of schooling and extra schooling.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we have a whole good skin training program for uh my partners that go through this to do that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then so by the time we get to the technique, we're we're already like winning, if that makes sense.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you've got all the basics down, that makes total sense.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of want to actually talk about that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know that you have uh, you know, a huge uh list of things that you really look at, including, you know, um genetics and genetic disposition and facial feature analysis.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to really walk us through all of that because um this is very, very new.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that not enough people understand the real benefit of truly mapping out your skin before you approach it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So can you can you walk us through that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: So five parts of aging.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: We do a whole science of aging video if anyone wants to learn and see it for themselves.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's on goodskinclinics.com and they can basically learn about their science of aging.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: It it helps explain why the tool for the certain diagnosis.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the first things are there's bone, muscle, skin, fat, and fascia.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And although it would be fun to tell someone to treat, like we all are aging in all of those aspects, but when I take on case studies or cases, people always have like some top issue.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: It could be bone, it could be muscle.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so we will prioritize.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: We always say, like, we're down, we're we're looking for the path of least resistance.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: We need to prioritize your problems so you don't feel overwhelmed by the entire process, um, downtime cost, all of the things that go into this, and and then make the plan.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we will touch and palpate their face, and all this is learned through there is a um extended training.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the the sad part about this is these trainings don't generally happen in the US.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's no school for this.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I do encourage anyone who's ever looking for practitioners to treat them to um investigate kind of what has been their training experience.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's no real school for this.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, what my partners attend is we all attend this um course in the Netherlands where you basically train on cadavers for multiple days, and you get a very heavy understanding of bone, muscle, skin, fat, and fascia, and how do you palpate that or touch it, and then how do you diagnose that.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's like the first step is you have to first figure out, and we also have a YouTube video that walks people through like how to figure out your science of aging so that you can help understand when what a practitioner is telling you.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be an active participant.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and which is important.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone needs to understand what is wrong with their skin.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's one thing I I think is a massive problem in this industry is everyone wants to buy products, but no one knows what's going on with their health.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean totally and I honestly I feel kind of not bad for the consumer, but like a little bad in the sense, like I actually don't think it's easy information to find.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's it's not, it's not easy, but at the end of the day, you know, um, I think that's the whole idea is that when you're dealing with your skin, you have to go to the medical research.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, you know, it's like I know there are a lot of dermatologists now on Instagram, especially TikTok, that are kind of urging people to like learn more.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, like, you know, yeah, there's not a lot, but whatever is out there, like you have to do your home homework, you know, as a consumer.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I see it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all our favorite clients are the educated consumers because they just they truly uh get to be an active participant and um they're a part of their journey.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a part of your journey, you're definitely going to be a happier client, I'm sure.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I and this whole um, I actually want to when I first saw that you do a facial feature analysis, I I was very intrigued because um I know there are a lot of brands right now, well, not a lot, but a few brands right now that are coming out with new technologies and they're really kind of hopping on this bandwagon of analyzing the face, analyzing all the, you know, the lines and the the small you know changes.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when you go through this, yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to talk about that or what they're using?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I want to talk about.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how long does that take and what are the components and stuff?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I would say like those things are useful and yet should be used with a small amount of caution because they're still not.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell clients to come in, like these are still a computer rendering of a photo, which is kind of like Photoshop, and we still need to like go by obviously palpation.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in the age of Zoom, I've definitely done more Zoom consults and also said, like, at the end of the day, my experience is what makes me good, and my hands and ability to palpate your face.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna use these analyzing models to help teach you and to help explain the process, but we're not gonna fully rely on them because they're not 100%.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So most of the analyze you generally have two different analyzing forms.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have something where people put their head in this basic, like little, um almost like a bubble.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a white bubble, and it analyzes your amount of pigmentation, it analyzes your vessels, it analyzes um how much sun damage you have.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also what we use in the office is called Vectra.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So ours does that, and it's also a 3D imaging model that helps us assess symmetry, which for for us, for the good skin model, we do believe in helping people be more symmetric through the aging process.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Although we caution that we don't endorse being like chasing perfection and perfect symmetry because imperfections are what are what give us beauty.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um so those that's like one of our biggest assessment tools.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say it's it's more for me, as much as it's assessment, it's actually still more of a module to help clients be a part of the process and understand their face and be able to see what I'm able to see, like that I can't express to them.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's like an education tool.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it is.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty cool.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I would I would say my advice with that is like it's fantastic to be the clinic that has it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, like to use only that would be would be very misleading.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting, yeah, because there's a lot of claims, you know, as usual.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to clarify um how important these softwares are.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now you mentioned that, you know, um using your hands is the best way that you can analyze someone's skin.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me like an example you might remember of a patient?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't have to go into too much details, but um, something where this really played out and the person saw that, you know, like I'm glad that this person is touching my face and getting to know me rather than just put me in a you know algorithm.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so uh that I guess this comes down a bit to technique.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you could uh there's two quick stories here.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: One is I can if we touch someone's face and they're say they come in, which most people come in for nasal labial folds, or they complain of sagginess.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: If we touch their cheek area, which is generally the source of sagging, and I feel I could feel a few things, but let's just break it down to two.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: I could feel either that the person has poor bone structure and or I could feel that they have volume loss, meaning they like if I pinch their skin, I don't have much between my fingers to pinch.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's here's where it gets picky.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: If they have poor bone structure, I'm gonna use and I'm trying to make them look like I never was there, like Mother Nature never took this away from them.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: I need to choose a technique and a product that allows me to imitate improved bone structure, versus if I pinch their skin and they have poor volume, I need to choose a tech, a totally different technique and product that allows me to imitate fat.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like the secret sauce is to like, why do some celebrities look like they've never had anything done and some just don't?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like when people wonder and ask me all the time, like, how is it you have these outcomes and how is it the client next to you doesn't?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like it's all down to detail.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense what you're saying.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if someone can really analyze the areas of your face that need the help and then, you know, provide a full plan, I think that's a lot more, you know, um promising than just flathering on a bunch of moisturizer and being like, well, this is anti-aging cream and it's supposed, it's supposed to work.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I I do think I had one case not long ago where for her, skin was really a holdup.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like her dry skin, I mean, it's actually rare for me to be like, you really need to spend money on skincare.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, you need volume, but you really also need to spend money on your skin because this dryness is basically like killing anything I do, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's like lack of um suppleness, suppleness would be a good word, lack of suppleness.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you deal with that?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Lisa, how do you deal with that when you know people?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Patient needs skincare, like just for dryness or something.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you recommend products or do you just tell them, like, hey, go find something?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's a it no, I a hundred percent recommend products.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that products have a valid, like, I I sometimes I know we're all a little afraid to be like, oh, you buy this product because you feel like a salesperson, but like if someone has an actual issue there, they should buy that product.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you should, if you carry good products in your office, you should feel good that you know you're you're the same thing as me giving them a filler that I know is gonna correct their issue.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm giving them a quality uh cream that's gonna correct their issue.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it just comes back to like quality standards, you know, like really works versus does not work.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I totally get it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually, you know, I ask you that because I know a lot of dermatology clinics, you know, they'll carry a line and it's it's different in every clinic you go to.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I ask.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I I'm interested in that line between skincare and then going into a skin clinic.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you help me figure that out?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know, you know, when people come to me, like, you know, I'll get like random messages from friends or something, like, hey, what do you recommend for?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 35 and I'm starting to get wrinkles.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, I don't know.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm trying to figure it out too.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So can you tell us like a little like a way to figure out if something can work, um if skincare can be enough, or if you really need to go to like a med spa and really get it done, something done.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think if anyone has an active dermatological problem, I would absolutely get expert advice.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's something valid there, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um now I do think that I have worked in in dermatology, particularly dermatology, and running an acne clinic long enough to see that there are some universal truths that do work in skincare for 90% of people.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that is something really exciting that we're gonna launch in the fall that I've been working on for years, which is formulating quintessential um products that are it's it's kind of hard to say like they're not tailored because they still are tailored.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: But there is there is truth in some actual clinically efficacious ingredients that we don't need to reinvent the wheel year after year, and we can rely on the science and the clinical efficacy and then take it a step further and have them not be irritant, irritants or harming the um the skin barrier, like all these other factors that you gain from dermatological experience.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think that in in short, we do have another YouTube video that we're talking more about like skincare at every age.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as as much as I do want to tailor things for patients, there there are some universal truths to skincare at different ages that can be valid.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we just did one on skincare for 40s.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that I was really it was really fun to talk about.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Does that answer your question?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it does.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm sorry, I'm very just thinking about everything you said.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm curious because I think you know, when it comes to universal truths in skincare, that's something I have a hard time grasping.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know a lot of brands, almost every brand has hyaluronic acid, every brand has vitamin C, every brand has a moisturizer.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So are those some of the things that you mean?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know Yes, yes.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I we call them like the good skin gold standards, which is, I mean, and then as a consumer, like here's where it gets gray and here's where it gets hard for people is the additives.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I worked in Durham for many years, is it wasn't actually it was we call it the uh vehicle, it was often the vehicle, which is all the other stuff that's in the prescription cream, um, all the other preservatives, additives, that is what would give people reactions.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so um interesting that that yeah, so I know that we all often want to believe like this thing works for me and I'm special, and like, well, it it if you have a really clinically clean, clinically efficacious and then clean and balancing serum with these gold standard truths like vitamin C growth factors, um, some pigment regulators, like it it will improve most everyone's skin if you can also avoid all these darn irritants.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, it's just that's a gray area that's hard for consumers to find.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting you bring up irritants, right?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that, you know, in on a lot of the previous episodes, I've had this um idea of the inflammatory process of our skin.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a repeated thing that keeps coming up.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think right now it's an interesting time for this industry because I think people are finally starting to understand there's no such thing as anti-aging, there's more of anti-inflammatory or anti, you know, like things that can help combat that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So can you um, you know, maybe speak on some of the products that you're coming out with?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you recommend for anti-inflammatory um purposes?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what's also very funny is as you when you work in skin a long time and also have a have a lot of laser experience, which can make you almost even more of an expert, just tons of different skin types and tons of different lasers.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: What's fascinating is when you're trying to change someone's skin is you actually are trying to like slightly irritate it or like cause a state of wound healing and repair.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And where I see most people go wrong is that they don't actually do the repair part, they do the they do the irritation, the wound healing, or they get irritated and they stop and then they like start again, and then like there's very little effort given to this.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we want to be to me, anti-inflammatory would be in this in the realm of what are you doing to repair and heal your skin.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and then at the same time treating your skin.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of have treat and heal, and treating your skin would be more sometimes actually causing a little bit of inflammation.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like not all inflammation is terrible, but that's what's really funny about rosacea.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like rosacea is an inflammatory disorder that causes skin changes over time, but at the same time, we're kind of doing inflammation with laser, and then the skin looks better.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, how is that different?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's continued inflammation, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that healing step.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so most everywhere I see clients go wrong is they they they just generally lack that healing part of their plan.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what that makes me think of, Lisa?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, that makes me think of the people who overexfoliate.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like the exfoliating heroes out there for all of you, you know, it's just you I think the exfoliation part is something that I've always been kind of like scared of for skincare because it's over the counter and you've got all these peels and all these like you know, physical exfoliants.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, if when you use that every single day, you know, the difference between that and what you're saying.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a lot of people don't understand it, like that that type of inflammation versus what you describe.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's a it will, you know why?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a fine, it's something that's fine-tuned through experience, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you start to look like, okay, wait, that's that's that's more inflammation than we want.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's kind of this like this little bit of rope do you walk?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so to me, yeah, anti-inflammatory is fantastic following an anti-inflammatory diet.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that is good for your body, and that is good for the rate of aging to s to slow things down.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And yet the goal for me, it's the goal is not to like cause no inflammation, you know.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: The goal, the goal is to balance it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: To have healthy inflammation, yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there we go, healthy inflammation.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of an oxymoron, but you know, it it works.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I I'm interested though, because I want to take it a step further and ask you like, um, when it comes to wound healing, what are some of the um very important ingredients that you um have come across or that you think are really, really great and maybe even incorporated in your formulations?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I'm obsessed with wound healing.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's like huge obsession for me.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've gone through my own like journey with what we'll I'll get into another day, but of just like, how do you make your body heal faster?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a few, again, universal truths.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: One is red light devices uh from quality, again, quality suppliers.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, red light does help our body heal.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Two is anti-inflammatory diets, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like again, alcohol, low sugar, basically allowing the body to not be in a state of uh disruption.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: My first degree is in nutrition, so it's it's funny that this is coming full circle for me.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, and then the third is PRP stem cells growth factors, and those are things that you can use topically.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and those are were discovered when they were trying to get burn patients to heal faster, and so that those absolutely work.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting that you brought interesting that you bring up stem cells.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know that in in burn patients and that kind of wound healing, there's definitely a, you know, it's like almost like a graft, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Am I mistaken?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's like grafting almost?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh can't it can be.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think it depends on like the type of wound.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for for us, we will generally add uh either draw someone's blood and pull their PRP, which would be platelet-rich plasma, or in a in an ideal world, we use mesenchymal stem cells um from an accredited lab, which are basically more robust, and we'll inject those after treatments and then see a much quicker healing response for a particularly a patient that's slow to heal.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And another point that's fascinating is like we have this culture of vaping now, and nicotine is a total, totally delayed healer.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I think there's just a lot of validity to people taking some ownership over their healing process and realizing that that's like part of the, even if it's just skincare, it's it's part of getting the health, it's your health.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I I completely agree with you.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, we got rid of smoking and we got vaping.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's really comes down to healthy habits.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one thing that I find to be very interesting in this um sector of beauty is the idea that you know, you really have to start looking at your your skin health as overall health.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the consumer market right now is I think they're shifting towards that, but it's very, very slow, you know, because everyone wants to think, oh, it's my face, let me just put it on it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, we all want the magic bullet and we all want to just continue our ways of life that are sometimes feel better and not, you know, it's fun to do those things right.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: But that is where you asked earlier.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that is why in the clinics we do think that's valid to talk about the genetics of aging and like to really think about how what we're doing now.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: We often say in my clinics, like we're really concerned with Botox, how it affects you today, but we're even more concerned about how it's gonna look on you five to ten years from now.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, because you're manipulating muscles and you're anyhow, like it is the long-term journey of using these products.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that makes total sense.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you, Brent, it's a very random question.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about the at-home injectables that are coming out now?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: So funny.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I am I'm always kind of like, you know what, there's a market for everyone, but yeah, there's I know, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, why is there an at-home everything?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what I'm asking you.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, because there's profit involved, and like if you look at the company that's coming out with that, they basically had a product that wasn't selling and then was like, how do we reinvent this and actually sell stuff?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that's where we get come back to like the educated consumer.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think the thing that sucks in this is that like it's cool, we have all this access, and then at the same time, you're gonna have a lot of people that like have to have the poor outcomes and deal with the stuff that could have been avoided if they just went to an expert.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's but it's they just didn't, they took a shortcut.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is it their right to learn?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's their right to experience.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I I definitely believe in a right to like choose.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's I mean, I think there needs to be a limit, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, also like it's how much do you want to put in the hands of the consumer?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, with medicine.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I go to with this.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, especially when I'm speaking to someone like you, you're an expert in this field, this is your specialty.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you, you know, I'm looking at people at home injecting themselves with whatever it is they're buying in these formulas.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, why would you not just go to somebody who can look at your face and put whatever filler or whatever it is injectable that you're getting in the right place?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a consumer, you have no idea where you need to, you know, put anything, like in terms of like actually transdermal injection of something.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea where to go.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: So not to mention, like, I don't know, I did egg freezing and I'm so crate with needles, and I am always like, I can poke myself with anything, and but I don't do my own injectables.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like some do I really behemotely believe that practitioners should not do their own.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: But um, point is is that like I had a hard time poking myself in the stomach.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, how are these people doing this with the with like good technology?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: In the face, yeah, I know, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'd be scared.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, I'm gonna poke my eye out.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I I could barely do my stomach and I'm in medicine, so I I don't know.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I hear you.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I actually want to ask you about some general advice.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is very um, it's kind of hard to do, it's an umbrella question, but I'm gonna ask anyways about everyone out there that has considered Botox or is considering it, what's a good age to start looking into this?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is there a good age range?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I think is valid?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's valid to like not commit to the Botox or the filler or the anything.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I have started a 20-year-old or maybe even younger, 18 on jaw Botox.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: It really needed it, like a hundred percent, like aesthetically, not even just TMG, like this aesthetically needed it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it was not necessary to have a jaw like that looked like he was always in uh and it was a male, it was always uh like holding nuts kind of thing.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and yet I could meet a 35-year-old and be like, you know, it it's not that we, you know, you're say everyone has a lifetime spend, like it's way more valid for you to be spending money on fillers or laser or skincare, you know.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the really valid point is it's great to be a student of yourself and to look for advanced learning.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like, wouldn't it be interesting to go to a clinic that gave you a diagnosis, even if it's not good skin, but like go to a place where like we give you some sort of understanding on your science of aging or how you're aging, and then and then say, like, yeah, like okay, you really have a muscle issue in the genetics, and it it would be beneficial to start Botox at this age, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's we do clinically start aging in our 20s.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: So as soon as we stop growing, we start aging.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so at least being open to a diagnostic in your 20s and getting a roadmap is uh is how I would recommend someone to do it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's very interesting because I know like dermatology has changed so much, you know, since I was a kid and a teenager.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, thinking about it now, I'm glad that you that you told me that because I know I I keep seeing arguments on Instagram or something where someone's going crazy because so-and-so recommended Botox to their 18-year-old daughter or something, right?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then Instagram goes nuts and it's like, oh, that's bad parenting.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it that's really what led me to ask you is like, is there an age?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what should we really be thinking about when we think about things like Botox, you know, and which you just answered.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to help.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think of it as problem solving, and we should help people solve problems.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I want to ask you if you have any advice for anyone out there be that wants to go into um maybe dermatology, but not go the route of you know, plastic surgery and and you know, do what you're you're doing.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess there nowadays really are two roads generally, uh although some dermatology clinics do still operate cosmetically too.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it does get a little crossed over.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think finding a clinic as um we hire and do all this stuff, but we're always like it has you, we want to believe in you just as you much you believe in us.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's both.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't believe in our methodology, again, like goes back to like I believe everyone has a right to choose, and that's fine.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: And even as a patient, if our aesthetic isn't for you, that's fantastic.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: We can refer you to this other person, or that's fine, I should say, not fantastic, but fine.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's your right to choose.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's fantastic, you're overbooked anyways.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's like, hey, it's it's your body, it's your it's your journey, it's your stuff.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think the same can be said with your job or like your, you know, like for me, there was that like I'm in a clinic that I didn't agree with the way in which it was these tools were being like Botox and Philly were being used.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't make that clinic wrong.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It just wasn't it, it wasn't in line with what I wanted to offer into the community.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, like finding, like try to find that clinic or that job or that that place that you think has that ideal or is open to what you're wanting to learn will save you a lot of time.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be you you'll also be a lot like, oh, I'm like studying what I want to study and not like not fighting against it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great advice.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that, you know, I ask that because I know medicine, you know, I've gone through it as well, and it's a very confusing field.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of people out there that really just like dermatology, but they're like, I don't want to go to four years of medical school.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to go through, you know, like well, I'm a I'm a physician assistant, and I I think being a physician assistant is fantastic.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I love hiring nurses and nurse practitioners, and I a hundred percent respect doctors, and my partner is a double board certified plastic surgeon.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I a hundred percent believe in plastic surgery and feel like it has it, you know.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: I often I'm like, you know, this this we could do non-surgical, but this would be your surgical result.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but yeah, PA route is a super cool route to go because you can get into dermatology and then also like if you change from dermatology, you can change into NICU or something else as well.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there is still a lot of schooling, but it is shorter.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone out there listening, I hope um, you know, you learn some great things from Lisa because this is you know, I I love episodes like this where I can talk to you about science because there's just not enough out there.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank you, Lisa, for all the information you gave us.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I thank you for having me.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 40:41
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• 40:43
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• 41:41
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