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Exploring Multiple Intelligences (with Carrie Naglak) · The Daily Writer

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome to episode 97 of the Born to Create podcast.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kent Sanders, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever thought about the question, what does it mean to be intelligent?
0:28
SPEAKER_01: We typically define intelligence in terms of intellectual ability as it's evidenced by grades, IQ, or other types of measurement.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: But today's guest helps us understand the theory of multiple intelligences.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: This is a critical concept for those of us in creative fields because it's a reminder that people can be smart in a variety of ways.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, my guest today is Carrie Naglack, who is an educator with many years of experience thinking about and studying multiple intelligences and related issues.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: I first became aware of Carrie's interest in this topic whenever she was helping my college with assessment.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was really impressed with the depth of her knowledge and I wanted to explore these issues further here on the podcast.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: In our conversation, we talk about a variety of topics related to multiple intelligences, including how it affects our creativity.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: This is one of those mind-bending episodes that makes you realize how much you truly still have to learn.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, after the interview, you can check out the show notes at Kent Sanders.net slash zero nine seven.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get to the conversation with Carrie Naglack.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Carrie, welcome to the podcast.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Good to have you.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Good to be here.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to talk about multiple intelligences.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Is that, first of all, is that the right way to say that?
1:43
SPEAKER_01: When you are talking about intelligences, that is the correct plural way to say that.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: So that's the first rule of podcasting is you want to actually know how to talk about the thing you're talking about in the correct way.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So let's dive into this right off the bat here.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: What is the theory of multiple intelligence and where did it come from?
2:05
SPEAKER_00: So first of all, the disclaimer is I am not an expert.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: This is just kind of something fun that I've enjoyed learning about.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Well you're more of an expert than me.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Well there you go.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: And you're an educator and I've studied lots of things related to this, so I absolutely value your expertise.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Well good.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Um so um Multiple Intelligences, the theory of multiple intelligences was developed by Howard Gardner, who um is a um developmental psychologist and uh current professor of education at Harvard.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: So he's a very intelligent, educated guy in the field of education, which I think is key.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: He's got some good credentials.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he does.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Harvard.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: If they keep trying, they might make something of themselves someday.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Those guys at Harvard.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: So um this kind of developed in the 80s, I think eighty-three, um, as he started um realizing that there's more to being intelligent than being book smart and having a high IQ.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: You can still be intelligent even if you're not book smart.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And so he started diving into researching, um, building this framework, this theory of the different ways that people can be intelligent.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: So he did this um with a field of teachers and educators, and as far as I learned in my research, by doing a lot of research and a lot of um just like in the field type of study.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of hands-on, it's not just out of his head, basically.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm trying to say.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not just stuff he just kind of made up and said, Well, I think this, it's all back by research.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So how did you get interested in this field?
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, I was an elementary school teacher and um had so many diverse learners, and I wanted to be able to teach them to the best of my abilities.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to be able to um just I wanted to learn how they learn.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: And brain research is a huge um passion of mine, and so learning about how the brain works and all these intelligences, it's just kind of all connected.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you talk about book smart versus other types of smarts, and I know we'll get into the details of different areas of that are considered multiple intelligences, but why do you think that's important for us to make that distinction between, okay, people are quote unquote book smart, but other types of smart?
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Is that because we tend to value being book smart above other kinds of intelligences?
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, I think in education, that's what we have been trained to do is give tests and students write their answers.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's all about words, it's all about the book.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, that's how education is, so that's how everyone's raised, and that's what we do.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: And you look at someone's IQ to know if they're cognitively impaired, do they need services, or you know, it's all based around numbers like the IQ numbers and your test scores.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Something that I think about quite a bit is the difference between, and I know I know this is just sort of one example, but people who are book smart who have a lot of knowledge, but then people who well, I let me back up a little bit.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess what I'm thinking of is the person who is book smart, but they're not socially intelligent or emotionally intelligent.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: The person who is in a group talking with people, they're totally self-centered, they they they can't read people's social cues, they talk too loud, they drone on, you know, those kinds of things.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: So that to me is like a textbook example of yeah, being book smart can be good, but it also can deceive you into thinking that you're superior to other people.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Sure, absolutely I could see that happening.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: So how do you define as we're talking about this theory of multiple intelligences and creativity, how do you define creativity?
5:44
SPEAKER_00: So I let's see.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Um what I feel creativity is is it's how someone uses their imagination to produce something or solve problems.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of a broader.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: And how how do you see then creativity related to multiple intelligences?
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Great question.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I like that one.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Um I think they're not necessarily connected, but I think that um people aren't they're they are written off as uncreative because they can't do certain things.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I totally I mean I'm not agreeing with that sort of viewpoint, but yeah, I agree that so I think people actually I think this is where the book smart people often get written off as uncreative.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that is because, you know, somebody who's uh multiple intelligence might be um musical, obviously.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: People are like, wow, you're so creative, you can sing beautifully, you can write beautiful compositions.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: But um someone who can read well and um write things, although writing could be creative as well, but I don't know, I think there's so many people who are viewed as not creative because they can't draw a picture, if that makes sense.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's partially because in Western culture we tend to elevate people with certain gifts?
7:04
SPEAKER_01: For example, musicians, actors, um movie directors, you know, people who are really good at certain types of art, we tend to elevate those people, but then other types of of art or other types of work, we tend to downgrade those because they're not those things that we value in Western culture, that sort of celebrity thing.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that it's really a shame for people who who have a lot to contribute, but they they may not be gifted in those specific things.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Because you can be creative in so many different areas.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: And as you're asking questions, I had like I have different students' faces popping into my head, like this kid was so good at math, for example.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Right, I would never have written him or never have said he was super creative, but he was really good at math.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's very mathematical.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: But if I would have given him something and tried to foster that math the mathematical abilities in him, I bet he could have produced something really amazing.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: That could have been like, oh wow, that is creative, or that's a creative way to solve that problem.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: You know.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's just viewing it differently.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, even if, okay, so we're sitting at uh a small round table here in my office at uh the college.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: So on this table, I have, you know, we have two microphones, you have your laptop, I have a Zoom uh H4N Pro digital recorder, I've got my phone here, you've got your phone probably somewhere in your purser somewhere.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, all those things, it it took math to create all those things.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, vast quantities of math and calculation.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: So we normally think of something like a computer or or a phone as like, oh, that's so creative, all the apps and stuff, but there's a lot of math in there too, and engineering and design and all that stuff.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I was just thinking engineers are so creative.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we use their creativity every day, but would we say they're creative?
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: You know?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: I would, for sure.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I hope that that most people would.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: I would hope so too, but I wonder I just think kind of in mainstream and in the general public who'd be like, oh, that's not that creative because they're not Van Gogh.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, they can't paint a picture, they can't sing as well as XYZ person, you know.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Which is a travesty.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not sure I would want Van Gogh engineering a bridge favorite picture popped in the first one that popped in my head.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: He had his own issues.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, he did.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Which uh all of us do, I suppose.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Did that contribute to his creativity?
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think yes.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Um in fact, there's a great book, you know, if we're talking uh specifically like about mental illness.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: There's a great book called Lincoln's Melancholy, written by an author named Joshua Wolf Schenck, I think that's his name.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And in that book he makes the case that Lincoln's battle with depression was a contributing factor to his greatness.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Which I think is a fascinating argument.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: That would be very interesting to read.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: So let's dive into some areas of multiple intelligences.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you want me to list these off or how do we want to maybe chat chat about these for a few minutes?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Um could just go one at a time briefly.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's nine of them, so it could take a bit, but we could just kind of Okay.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: So do you have those written down?
10:12
SPEAKER_01: I do.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, why don't you just go through those real quick?
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: And just give us kind of a brief overview of what those are.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: So it originally started with um let's see, six key ones, and then he added two more, and then he added another one just in the past five or ten years.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: So started off with linguistic intelligence, and that is your typical smart person.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: That's your word smart.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's the person who reads really well, it's the person who can take a really good test and write a really good research paper.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So those are kind of your nerds.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Your your nerds, your I'm one.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: That's why I can say two.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: I wrote research papers in the summer for fun when I was in elementary school.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a linguistic person.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the atypical quote unquote a student.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Or good student.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So then we also have logical mathematical intelligence, and that's the number smart person.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's also kind of the stereotypical smart person, the person who can do great calculations.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, wow, they're so intelligent, they can solve for why or for you know.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: So those two are kind of the big ones that we think of as a smart person.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, in general.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: They have they're either linguistic or logical mathematical.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then we also have spatial intelligence, and these are like the um picture smart people.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: They can visualize things, they use learning tools like um pictures and drawings, they're good with puzzles.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, an architect would be a spatial visual visual person.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: This is so interesting.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize this until just now, but I think my wife is really gifted in that spatial intelligence.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's gifted in other areas as well, but she's an event planner.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: And she can look at a space and go, okay, this needs to go here, this needs to go here, and just see the whole thing and make it happen.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Interior decorators.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: That's that's really cool.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Um bodily kinesthetic intelligence would be a person, um, you know, our athletes, our dancers, our actors that can move and do amazing things, but also mechanics would be bodily kinesthetic.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they move things around physically.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Makes sense.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, then musical intelligence, I think that one it speaks for itself.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: It sings for itself.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: We do as I look at my guitar.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's your musicians, um conductors, people who direct choirs, they would have musical intelligence.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of the the fab five, I would say.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: I said six earlier, I meant five.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: But then there's two others that as he started, as Howard Gardner started really trying to implement this and really trying to see how this theory worked, he realized, ooh, I'm missing out on some people.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: And those are people who have interpersonal intelligence, and that would be people like administrators, teachers, people who are good relating with other people.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Like that's their smarts.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: That's how intelligent they are.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there's intrapersonal.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: So that's people who um really look within.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Like it could be your theologians, your um psychologists, therapists.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: They they kind of let's see, what was the term I had here?
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Self-smart.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: So dealing with the person.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Almost like a self-awareness where they're exploring the interior journey of the person, whether that's a faith-based thing or whether it's something else, like a meditative thing or whatever.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And then the the one that he just came out with, um, came out with, I don't remember when it wasn't.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, the most recent one was a naturalist intelligence.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's like the nature smart person.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: It's the the person who um is the botanist, the wildlife illustrator, photographer, you know, wildlife photographer, the person who just knows about nature.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: You know.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So those are the intelligences in a nutshell.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: So as you look at these, so that's eight total, did I get that right?
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I said nine earlier, but it's eight.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So if you're looking at this list, where would you place yourself on this spectrum?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, are there two or three that you really identify with personally?
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's the one key thing.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: No person is one intelligence.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, everyone has aspects of all of them, you know.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just one or two might be their highest ones.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: For me, it would be linguistic intelligence and probably that interpersonal.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Just having been a teacher, um, now being a mom, being um I was a youth minister's wife, now I'm a Dina student's wife.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like in interacting with people is a gift.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And I would say as a Christian, it's an intelligence that God has given me.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go shut those blinds real quick.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Those are really irritating.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even hear it.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: That was driving me nice.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Like any any distracting noise.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So, what kind of intelligence are you?
15:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask you that.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you just asked me which one am I?
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Wait, that's good.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh linguistic for sure, musical for sure.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh absolutely not bodily kinesthetic.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Like literally, I can moonwalk a little bit as long as I have on good socks and it's on slick linoleum.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: That is the only like literally.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: You get a running start.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like uh risky business.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: I probably shouldn't say that on this podcast, but uh I've seen movie trailers for.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe interpersonal, I'm maybe uh that's one that I'm growing in.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Um I just have always seemed to have an ability, and it's it's gotten stronger, it's gotten a lot stronger as I've gotten older.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if well that's maybe another question I can dive into.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we can how much we can change in these over time, but I I just seem to be able to read the emotions of a group really strongly, like when I enter a room and you know, and identify, okay, this person is fearful, this person is sort of holding something back, um, there's a weird vibe in this room.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that's due to, but um it just seems to be something that I am growing in.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Do you do you do you see that in people that they can sort of change throughout their lives, or do you think this is a pretty constant thread?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I have not thought about that, to be honest.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Just off the top of my head, I have to think definitely you can change.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, you could definitely hone in on one of these areas and get better at it.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I I would have to say you could get more intelligent in a certain area.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's not something we can do naturally.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: We can we can grow in it, but maybe we're we're not ever gonna be sort of at a really peak or high level if it's something that is not a natural gifting for us.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, one example I saw, for example, was um there could be a person who's um bodily kinesthetic intelligent and like gymnast.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, they train their bodies and they are amazing athletes.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Um but then there could be somebody who's not bodily kinesthetic, but they love gymnastics.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: So they practice and practice and practice and practice and practice practice in order to become great.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's their passion, it's what they want to do, but they really have to work at it.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Whereas somebody else, it just might come natural to them.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think that you can really work up an area.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: I was having a conversation with um a student who shall remain nameless.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: This has been uh a couple of years ago, a music student uh from here, and and they were really gifted.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're still alive.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm talking about them in the past, but they're still alive.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: But I said, you know, you're really naturally gifted with music.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: I said, but that's act it may seem like that's a blessing now, but that's actually a curse in a way, because that natural gifting is gonna allow you to coast for a few years just on your talent alone, but there's gonna come a time where you're really going to have to work hard at understanding people and leadership and organization and administration, and and you're gonna have to really like work and and really kind of prove yourself in whatever job or situation you're in.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: So don't don't let your natural talent fool you.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So you talked about your different roles in life and appreciating this theory in those different roles.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Let's dive into how the theory of multiple intelligences can affect different parts of our lives.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And maybe let's start off with parenting.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: How how would this affect you as a parent in dealing with with kids of different ages?
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: So when I was teaching, I wasn't a parent, but I got to interact with a lot of parents.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And um again, students are popping into my mind who were not book smart.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, I had the privilege of working at a um a school that was a Title I school out in Idaho, and um just a lot of really rough stories.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And I had a lot of children receiving um educational services on IEPs.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: And um for parents who know that their child is not book smart, it's really hard for them to go to school, you know.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Um one year I had like five fourth graders reading at a pre-primer level.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: That's like kindergarten or before.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Um and so they definitely were not book smart, they were not linguistic and they didn't have linguistic intelligence.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: But man, were they intelligent in other areas?
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, create creative and just in so many different areas, but they weren't book smart.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they literally couldn't read.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: But um for for parenting, I would say find your child's passions, what they love, and foster that.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Especially if they're not book smart.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Especially if they're not, shall we say, I have air quotes here, cut out for school.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, because unfortunately, and Howard Gardner saw this, schools right now and have been forever, they're they're based on the test.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: They're based on can you read and can you add and subtract and multiply and divide?
20:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, and if you can't do that, then you must not be smart.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: But that's totally not true, but kids feel that.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's heartbreaking when you have a student who or or a child, shall we say, because we're talking about parenting, a child who doesn't think they're smart.
21:02
unknown: Yeah.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, oh my goodness, find out how they are smart, foster that, because that may be what gets them through.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: So my son, I don't think my son would mind me sharing this.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: So he's gonna be fifteen later this week.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Now, when this podcast airs, he will have been fifteen for a little while.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: But he'll be fifteen later this week.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh today is April the 8th, so I record these quite a bit before they're released.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: And he uh as a freshman in high school, he really hates PE class.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Now, most people who have been in high school they didn't really enjoy P.E.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are those those people that loved it.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Most people just sort of endure it.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: There are a few people who just actively despise it with every you know atom in their being.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: That's my son.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: And it has been a struggle as a parent, you know, going through grade school, middle school, and now in high school, to kind of know how much do you do you encourage your your child to make A's in things, and how much do you kind of realize as an adult that, well, A's relationship.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Aren't everything and it doesn't really some of the classes really don't matter and you know I I kind of wrestle with that as a parent.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think a lot of parents probably do that.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Your kids don't have to have all A's and everything.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: It's a huge mind shift.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Because I even for myself, I was a straight A student because I loved school.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I loved reading, I loved writing, I loved math and all that stuff.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: So I did well in school.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: So I enjoyed it.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And I for me, being smart was getting A's.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, and if I didn't get an A, I was crushed.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: But now that I have kids, I don't want them to feel that.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: You know?
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Do they need to do well?
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they do.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna help them do well as as much as we can.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: But if they get a B or a C or a D, okay, it's not the end of the world.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: You know?
22:50
SPEAKER_00: And if you get an A or or you know, if you don't get a great grade, you might not get into Harvard.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh well.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: You know?
23:00
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people though are just they think, oh, my kid has to get into this college, they have to get into this university.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's like maybe you want them to get there, but maybe they don't want to.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what we've just seen with this whole college admission scandal thing.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, where you look at that and you go, Okay, I mean, if you were trying to get your kid into Harvard, maybe that's one thing.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, not that it's right, but you know, like and not to knock on like the California school, but you know, the schools that some of these people were trying to get their kids into, I just think, well, is that really worth like a half a million dollars to get here to try and get your kid into that school?
23:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: But then on the flip side, you have people who want to go to college, but maybe they don't have great grades.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Maybe their intelligence is this interpersonal.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: They want to be a youth minister, they want to be a counselor, they you know.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's like, how do you balance that?
23:50
SPEAKER_00: How do you help them get the grade they need to pursue their passion?
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, and not get, oh, you you didn't get good grades, well you can't come here.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, how it's only part of the picture.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: How do we balance that?
24:01
SPEAKER_00: That I I don't know.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, and I wrestle with that as an educator too, because you have to measure something.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: So uh I don't know.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: I guess it's just an ongoing conversation.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: It Yes.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh so let's dive into maybe uh their spirituality.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: How do you see these related to spirituality?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: I wish that there was more research on it, and maybe it's something that we need to do is research that and see how that plays out.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: But um what I see is that people are going to be led to Christ through so many different avenues.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: And traditions in churches are great until they're not great.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, if people stop coming, if people stop knowing the Lord, um maybe something needs to change in a church's programming, for example, or a Sunday school class or something like that.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Because just as everyone will learn differently, people are gonna come to Christ differently.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think if we want to foster people's spirituality, we need to find out definitely how do they learn, you know, what is their intelligence, quote unquote, and how can we use that to bring them to Christ.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, if if they're a naturalist person, oh my goodness, creation.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, bring them to Christ through his creation.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: If they're even mathematical, you can talk about the intricate things and you know, in science in the sciences that could really tweak someone's interest.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, you know, I never thought about that.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: God did that.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, it could just I don't know.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: You just have to figure out how people learn and foster that.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of interesting to me that in our Western mindset of church that we typically devote anywhere anywhere from thirty to forty minutes of time to a sermon that only appeals to really like one intelligence or learning style.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: If we want to talk about learning styles, I know they're not completely analogous, but I do find that kind of interesting and and I just, you know, sort of as a as a former pastor myself and as a person in a ministry training school, I just kind of wonder is being stuck to that 30-minute sermon model hurting us?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: And I know like once you start to sort of question that, all kinds of pastors and everybody just flip out.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, because we've been stuck on that for many, many, you know, yeah, many, many hundreds of years.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's why traditions are great.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I think that's why you need different avenues of reaching people in churches.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: That's why you need to have the fun carnivals.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: You need to have the the prayer night, you need to have the worship night, you need to have, you know, all these different things.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: You need to have prayer walks.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, you need to have all these different things because people are going to come to Christ differently.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you personally if you were to to look at these, in what ways do you feel like you personally experience God in the most powerful ways?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Definitely naturalist.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I would say that right off the bat.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: I've always loved nature.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And like my I went to the Audubon Center just this morning with my kids.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: And we hiked around and looked at all the birds and listened to them and looked at how high the water was up.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think that God's creation just glorifies him and just shouts his praises, you know, rocks cry out.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: So much of the Bible is natural, you know.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: So naturalist is definitely how I grow closer to God.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I actually had a friend one time.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Um we were talking about how God woos you, and I was saying, I was living in the Midwest at the time, and I said, I just I love mountains.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Mexico at the foothills of volcanoes, you know, we could see them out of our backyard and watch them explode from our rooftop, you know, it was amazing.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And then mountains, my whole growing up, and here I am in the Midwest.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, No mountains.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: No, no mountains, overpasses, you know.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the high point.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: But she said, Um, Carrie, I feel like God is wooing you through nature, you know, He brings you back to Him with by showing you His His creation, and I'm like, Oh yeah, absolutely.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: That I think is such a key point because we tend to take whatever our spirituality is, and I don't mean like theology necessarily, but I mean we take however we most experience God in our lives, and we tend to impose that on everybody else, and we think if that person doesn't experience God the same way that I do, or relate with God in a uh a natural way, then well they must not be very spiritual.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Which is really a huge mistake, isn't it?
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I could, you know, go for a walk with someone and be like, Wow, look at that amazing leaf.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: God created that.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: And they'd be like, Okay.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: But yet they could sit down and listen to this amazing sermon.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Carrie, listen to this, and I'd be like, Okay.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, it just it doesn't have I I I'm not super passionate about that, but you obviously are.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there there is an element where I think the more that we learn about multiple intelligences, learning styles, personality theory, these different ways that sort of explain psychology and human nature, then it should make us less judgmental of other people and more empathetic to how they're wired and what they need and how we can relate to them.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And as a teacher, I I saw that all the time.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, just the whole fact that just because somebody can't read doesn't mean that they're not smart.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that they don't have anything going for them.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, because they do.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: You just have to find it.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: I taught elementary and sometimes they didn't even know what they were good at, you know.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Little fourth graders are nine and ten, and they hadn't found their passions yet.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: So it was I felt like part of my role was exposing them to as much as possible.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, finding field trips that would really um uh people probably would have thought it was just playtime, but it's like, no, we're trying to give these kids experience, give them schema, you know, put experiences in their minds so that when they're reading something later or doing something later, they can remember, you know, have somebody said have some mental hooks to hang their hat on.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, giving students experiences to help them find their passions.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: So, yep.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And parents can do that with their children too.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Just try to expose them to as much as possible when they're little.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's a good thing.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Within reason.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Within reason, yeah.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no YouTube, no TV till after two.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's that's probably a good idea.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: And even then after that, sometimes it's a little questionable.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: So Curious George is a good one right now.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: He solves problems and goes to the museum.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the man with the yellow hair.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: So for those who are listening, they may think, okay, all this is great, but what does this have to do with my life on a practical level?
30:40
SPEAKER_01: So I always like to boil it down to okay, here's how it can impact our lives on an everyday practical level.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on that?
30:48
SPEAKER_01: How can this actually change the way that we are more creative, how we can interact with people, how we relate with God, anything that comes to mind as far as, okay, here's something you could do this week that related to multiple intelligences that would help you be more successful or effective in life?
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say find out what your passion is.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: What are you passionate about?
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Because most likely that is your intelligence, your multiple intelligence.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Not always, like the example I gave earlier.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're passionate about something but really bad at it.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: So you have to practice and get better.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: But I would say nine times out of ten, your passions are what you're good at.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's your that's how smart you are.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: It is the level of your smartness.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And so advocate for yourself.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want to do something that you feel like, oh man, people probably don't think I'm smart if I'm doing this, you know, obviously within reason.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Don't go blow something up.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, don't I'm really good at explosives.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't passion.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should back up a little bit.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: No.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: But really, advocate for yourself.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And I would also say, parents, be your kids' advocates.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, um that would be a big thing.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Parents advocate for your kids.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, be their advocate.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And help them know help them know that, yeah, you can't do this.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: Let's just be honest, you can't do this.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Let's do this instead.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, let's find out what you're amazing at and let's do that.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: So I wonder how much that that birth order plays into this whole thing.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean as far as the multiple intelligences so much, as I mean having the courage to be different than what your surroundings are.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, for example.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: So I have an and here I'm just speaking as sort of a a younger sibling.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes, and this may not apply in all situations, but sometimes younger siblings, you know, when they have an older sibling who is successful, as in my case, sometimes there's the expectation that, oh, you're just gonna do the same thing that your older sibling does.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Now in my case that has been true to a degree, but over the last few years I've really my path has really diverged from kind of the typical ministry path where I'm getting more interested in entrepreneurship and self-publishing and writing and blogging and all this this kind of stuff.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: So what would you say to somebody who is in a family dynamic where there's sort of this pressure on them to be or do a specific thing, but maybe that's just not how God has wired them to be.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: I would definitely say try it, and if it's not working for you, then try something else.
33:17
unknown: Yeah.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that is because as you spoke, I'm the youngest of four kids.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Really?
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: So I I thought through each of my siblings, and I was like, my oldest sister, very book smart, and I wanted to be like her because I wanted to get straight A's.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, my second sister, so musical.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to play the flute because she played the flute, you know.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And my brother, kinesthetic, an amazing soccer player.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to play soccer to be like him, you know, but I I did take after my big sister.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: I w I am pretty book smart.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't play the flute.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, I play the piano and the guitar, but I couldn't quite do the the flute.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: And then I tried soccer and wasn't great at it.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it, but I tried them.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they obviously impacted my life.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: My siblings obviously impacted my life.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: And I tried them and realized, okay, that's two of the three really weren't for me.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: So trying to think that's okay just to say, hey, I give it a try.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: It's not for me.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think like as I have my children growing up and experiencing different things, I want them to try something well, you know, not just one time.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Like if we sign up for a season of classes, you know, soccer, they're they need to do the whole season, finish out the season.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, give it a good try.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Don't just try it once and say, oh, I hurt my finger, or oh, I can't play a scale.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, you probably can't unless you're a genius, play a scale your very first lesson.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, just try it and make a good effort.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't work out, move on to something else.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think having a good teacher is really key to that process.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Or a good person who's giving you lessons or an instructor or something.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think part of in my mind, part of being a good trainer or a teacher is knowing when to give a student permission to move on from something.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Because so many times we we're passionate about something and somebody wants to learn something, and we sort of want to impose our passion on them.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, thanks for trying.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to not love what I love.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's hard though, as an educator, to tell someone who's just tell them, you know what, you're you can't carry a tune.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, how do we because it could crush them, but still advoc being an advocate for them as well and saying, Let's find out what you are good at.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: But isn't it important to tell the truth to people?
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: You don't want people thinking that they're going to, you know, sell record albums out the wazoo if they can't play guitar or they can't, you know.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Really they they need to have a wake-up call.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: They it's it's for their own good.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: You just have to figure out a nice way to say it.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was um used to be a worship pastor, and this happened, I'm ashamed to say, several times over like a seven or eight year period, but there was a person on our worship team who, you know, they couldn't really sing very well, but we had a situation where we had, and this was back in the days where we had quote unquote special music, you know.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Most of which was not really that special.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: So I was in a pinch, I needed somebody to do a song in church the next day, and I said, Hey, so and so, can you please, do you have anything you could do?
36:28
SPEAKER_01: So this person came in and you know, they that was back in the days where we used tapes and it was like a track and all that stuff, you had to have it queued up.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And uh they went through their song and it was really, really bad.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't have the courage to say, you know what, this just is not good.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: So did church the next day, we had a couple services, and it it was just as bad as it was the previous day.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: And in our month in our Monday morning staff meeting, our senior pastor goes, you know, that was so bad, I just wanted to cover my ears.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, you're right, but I d I didn't have the courage to to be honest with this person.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't have asked them in the first place.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: So there's there's that element of just having the courage to tell somebody the truth, which is hard.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it could crush them, and that's why you have to figure out a way to say it, and then tag on the back of that, but what are how are you intelligent?
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, what is your area of intelligence?
37:23
SPEAKER_00: It may not be singing, it's obviously not singing.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: But what is it?
37:27
SPEAKER_00: You know?
37:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has something.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: So as we start to wind this down, um, let me ask you a couple more questions.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: What is a habit or practice that has helped you be more creative or successful?
37:38
SPEAKER_00: I have to be organized.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Organized, okay.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: Right off the bat.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: That was the first thing I said, which is so funny because you think of creativity and you think of people who are just spontaneous.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: And I've always said I have to plan my spontaneity.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: That is who I am.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: I I don't I have to.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: And if I'm gonna be creative, quote unquote, like if I'm gonna sit down and do an art project or do a craft, or even cook, I think cooking can be very creative.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: I have to have everything out before I start so that I once I get into it, I have all my tools, I have everything I need.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to stop, get sidetracked, and go find something, you know.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Because then if I do that, um it's probably gone.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm probably not gonna get back into whatever it was.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: So I have to be organized.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: So you have to like clean off your desk, put away stuff, your your space has to be organized.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Yep, wipe down the counters before I start cooking.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, are you ready for our lightning round?
38:31
SPEAKER_01: I am.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: So the lightning round is a series of short questions in which I don't know what I was gonna say there.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: I was trying to be dramatic.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Was it working?
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Dun dun dun answer that.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Don't be honest, please.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: Dun dun dun.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I should play the Jeopardy theme song.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Probably be a copyright violation.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: But everyone's hearing it in their mind right now, so you're good.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: What is?
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I've got five things here.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: Carrie, what is your favorite movie?
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Thor and Sabrina, the original one.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: That's not one movie.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Those are two separate movies.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Two separate movies.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there's the movie that has Thor and Sabrina.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: No, but wouldn't that be epic?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: That would be kind of cool.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: You've got is that now is that the Sabrina with Harrison Ford?
39:12
SPEAKER_01: No, but you're talking about the teenage witch?
39:14
SPEAKER_00: No, no, Sabrina with um oh my goodness.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Um why can't I everyone's saying it right now.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh I can picture both of them.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Wasn't Sylvester Salone, was it?
39:26
SPEAKER_01: No.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're talking about like the old one.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Old like the original one.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: The original one, yes.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: That would be interesting with her and Thor.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: That it definitely would be.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: The new Sabrina's also very good.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, okay.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha, gotcha.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: So you like old school movies like the old stuff?
39:42
SPEAKER_00: I do, yeah.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: I do too.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, what is your favorite music group or solo artist?
39:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't come up with one.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Josh Grobin, Andre Bocelli, Michael Bublé.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Wow, you like the more classical stuff.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I do.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Have you heard Michael Bublet's new song?
39:59
SPEAKER_00: Which one?
40:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know the name of it, I just know it's a newer song on the radio.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: I heard one recently, but I couldn't tell you what it is.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know what it was.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: It was um something about just because I do such and such doesn't mean I love you, or something like that.
40:17
SPEAKER_03: It was a really catchy song.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was I I forget it exactly.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna totally botch this.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: So Okay, what's your favorite book?
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Scouting the Divine by Margaret Feinberg.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: She's a great author.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: What is your biggest creative failure and what did you learn from it?
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Spending time creating amazing lessons for my students or amazing experiences for my daughter, and then after implementing this amazing lesson, seeing just blank, you know, like didn't get it.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Didn't get it at all.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like I spent all weekend preparing this experience for you.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Or with my daughter, she's done with it in one second.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: So that's my biggest failure.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: That's okay, I can relate to that.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And what I learned from that though is um you just gotta look at it from a different angle.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Like if that lesson didn't work, all right.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: How can we tweak it to make it work for you?
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay, last one.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: What is the project you're most excited about working on right now?
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Planning simple learning experiences for my two-year-old, kind of along the Reggio Montessori type ideas.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm trying to do.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: In my spare time.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been a lot of fun.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, lots of things to think about here, lots of interesting content.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: So for those who are listening, if you have never heard of multiple intelligences, and this is your first um this is kind of like an introduction to this topic, then we'll have some links in the show notes to some resources.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: Um any particular things that I should include in the show notes, like any books or authors or anything?
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, Howard Gardner's book.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Um it's called Frames of Mind, The Theory of Multiple Intelligences.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And then his website, which is multiple intelligence oasis.com.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And it has just great information.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: There's even um um audio or visual clips of him talking about his multiple intelligence.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, nice.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great website.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, how can our listeners connect with you if they'd like to follow up and maybe ask a question or two?
42:19
SPEAKER_00: My email would be best.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: It's NaglackCerry at gmail.com.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks so much, Carrie.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you taking time to chat with me and um help educate me in this area.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: It was my pleasure.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Carrie Naglack.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: I encourage you to keep learning and to keep exploring because the world is a huge place and there's so much more to learn, as Carrie has shown us here today.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Today's quote comes from Henry Ford, who said obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off of the goal.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: I hope that encourages you on your creative journey.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: I know that it certainly does for me.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, hey friends, until next time, remember that you were born to create and designed to make a difference.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Now go create something awesome today.