Latest / Queer Voices / February 4th - REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES, LOVERLY, and Raquel Willis

Transcript

February 4th - REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES, LOVERLY, and Raquel Willis · Queer Voices

• 0:01
  Brett: You are listening to Queer Voices, and I'm your host, Brett Cullum.
• 0:04
  Brett: This is our podcast about the LGBTQIA plus community that has been around for over five decades.
• 0:11
  Brett: In this hour, we are going to talk theater with two of Houston's movers and shakers.
• 0:16
  Brett: Brenda Palestina is currently starring in the Alley's production of Real Women Have Curves, which runs through February 15th.
• 0:23
  Brett: The show is a mix of politics about women and immigrants that is more timely than ever.
• 0:28
  Brett: Then I speak with Paul Hope about his cabaret show, Loverly, the Broadway of Lerner and Lowe and Lane, which will be performed on Monday, February 9th, Monday the 16th, and Monday the 23rd at 7:30 at Ovation's Nightclub in Rice Village.
• 0:46
  Brett: Paul is a walking encyclopedia of Houston and musical theater.
• 0:50
  Brett: Rounding out the episode, Jacob Newsom interviews the incredible trans activist Raquel Willis.
• 0:56
  Brett: Raquel is a national figure in the transgender rights fight, and she has a lot to say about where we are.
• 1:02
  Brett: Queer Voices starts now.
• 1:09
  Brett: I'm Brett Cullum, and I am joined by somebody that's in a cast of a show at the Alley Theater.
• 1:15
  Brett: It runs through February 15th.
• 1:17
  Brett: The title is Real Women Have Curves.
• 1:20
  Brett: The work is from playwright Josefina Lopez, and with me today is one of the cast members, Brenda Palestina.
• 1:26
  Brett: She is a Houston-based, openly lesbian actor who plays the role of Anna.
• 1:31
  Brett: Hey there, Brenda.
• 1:32
  Brett: Welcome.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_07: Hey, Brent.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_07: How are you?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_07: Good to be here.
• 1:35
  Brett: I am good.
• 1:36
  Brett: Okay, first up, tell me about this show.
• 1:38
  Brett: Real Women Have Curves.
• 1:39
  Brett: What is this about?
• 1:41
  Brett: I mean, it's definitely an intriguing title.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_07: Well, it's a really uh it's a special play.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_07: Most a lot of people might be familiar with the movie or the musical, but this play came first.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_07: Josefina Lopez wrote this uh when she was 19.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_07: And this is a story about five immigrant women in East LA.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_07: They're Chicana women who work in a sewing factory.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and the sewing factory is owned by one of the women, my sister, in the show.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_07: And most of the women are recently documented, but Estela, the owner of the shop, is still undocumented.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_07: So, kind of the crux of the play is that we have to finish making 100 dresses in five days in order for Estela, the shop owner, and my sister, to not go to court and not be at risk of deportation.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_07: That's that's kind of the crux of it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_07: But the play touches on a lot of things, obviously immigration, but the title Real Women Have Curves, it's also all of these women are either fat or just not thin or not this sort of like very conventional, small-bodied women, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_07: So we talk a lot about body image as well and kind of like what it means to be a woman in this world.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_07: But I think maybe the most important part is like these are heavy topics, but the play is funny.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_07: The play is a comedy.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_07: The play kind of comes at all of these things with a side eye and with a joke and with laughter.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_07: And that's kind of what this play is.
• 3:08
  Brett: I've seen the movie, so I feel like I I know what I'm getting into now.
• 3:11
  Brett: And I wondered when I when I saw the title, I was like, is this the movie that I saw?
• 3:15
  Brett: Yes.
• 3:16
  Brett: Yeah, I'm glad to see it.
• 3:17
  Brett: But this obviously is the source material and it's the original play.
• 3:20
  Brett: So I'm excited to see where all of this came from.
• 3:23
  Brett: My gosh, I mean, I think the movie came out a long a while ago, like a long time ago.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_07: Like 2001 or or Yeah, it was decades.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_07: Something like that.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Brett: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Brett: And and and to have this material still be relevant and still be timely is just so amazing.
• 3:40
  Brett: And it really does kind of speak to how far we have not come.
• 3:43
  Brett: I mean, we still have all of this body issues and immigration and everything else.
• 3:48
  Brett: I mean, it just I wish the world had gotten the message the first time around, you know?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, it's it's also interesting because that's when the movie came out.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_07: But this play, she wrote it in the in 89.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_07: 1989.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_07: And it's set the play is set in 1987.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_07: So the the source material is, you know, even older.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_07: It's when we were talking about the play early on in rehearsals, it's like this is kind of a period play at this point.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_07: 87 is some like almost 40 years ago, but it is also just so deeply true today.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_07: It is both period and not.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_07: I think the way a great period piece is, but it it yeah, it's very productive of today.
• 4:31
  Brett: Well, are you you're keeping it in the 80s, right?
• 4:34
  Brett: I mean, you guys are playing it as a period piece.
• 4:35
  Brett: Totally.
• 4:36
  Brett: Okay, well, amazing.
• 4:37
  Brett: All right, awesome.
• 4:38
  Brett: Now tell me a little bit about the character that you're playing.
• 4:40
  Brett: It's Anna, is that right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, yes.
• 4:43
  Brett: What is what is her story?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, Anna is this amazing woman, honestly.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_07: She's 18, she's just graduated from high school, and she's kind of been in East LA her whole life and is really wanting to get out of East LA.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_07: Her dream is to go to New York.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_07: She wants to go to NYU and be a writer.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_07: She is a writer in the play.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_07: We see her writing.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_07: And she's kind of this amazing young feminist who comes into this play and into the world, like wanting to share this, like kind of wanting to preach this feminist gospel.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_07: And there's a sort of arrogance to that that I think, I mean, I relate to feeling like this young person who knows so much about the world and just thinks that if if you just listened to me, I could fix some things.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_07: And then kind of through the course of the play, she's humbled and schooled by these women around her, older women, or at least women who are older than her, and they kind of in their own ways teach her about, and they don't maybe have the language for this yet, but they teach her about intersectionality and kind of why maybe the feminism that Anna is hearing um is not actually encompassing their needs as, you know, poor brown women or, you know, so she kind of gets to learn a lot from these women about feminism, about the world, about sisterhood and about herself.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_07: So it's kind of a real coming of age for her, kind of before she sent off to big, bad New York, to the big city, you know?
• 6:16
  Brett: Yeah.
• 6:17
  Brett: Well, I mean, who would want to leave LA to go to New York?
• 6:19
  Brett: I mean, come on, crazy.
• 6:20
  Brett: But it but it sounds like you've got a lot.
• 6:22
  Brett: It sounds like you're perfect for this part, just from the little that I know about you.
• 6:26
  Brett: Uh, so it sounds like it's something that you can really sink your teeth into.
• 6:29
  Brett: Tell me about how did you end up here at the alley?
• 6:31
  Brett: Like, did you how did you what was the audition process like?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_07: I well, I have been auditioning for the alley for some time.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_07: I I went to school in Houston.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_07: I graduated from the University of Houston.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_07: I got my BFA in acting a few years ago.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_07: And so I kind of met Brandon Weinbrenner, the associate artistic director at U of H.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_07: Um, he was working there.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_07: And so I kind of had been in contact with him and then continued auditioning for the alley for the past few years.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_07: But I Brandon emailed me the audition call and said, Hey, we would like you to submit a video actually for a different role than I have right now.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_07: And I thought, sure, great.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_07: I'll send a video.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_07: I didn't really think I was gonna get it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_07: And so I sent a video and I got a callback.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_07: I came in person.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_07: Then I did a second callback in person, but this time they also threw in Anna's character.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_07: They were like, we just want to see you read for Anna as well.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_07: And then after that, I got the offer.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_07: So it was a it was kind of a a short and sweet audition process, but also yeah, it I I don't know.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_07: It felt nice to be able to like actually come in person and and get past the video process.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_07: And yeah.
• 7:38
  Brett: And you guys are in the main stage of the alley?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 7:40
  Brett: Yeah, the upstairs is what I always call it.
• 7:43
  Brett: You're not stuck in the basement.
• 7:44
  Brett: So, how did you start acting?
• 7:45
  Brett: I mean, I know you went to U of H and got your BFA.
• 7:48
  Brett: What what did that?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_07: I feel like I've been acting forever, my whole life.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_07: I was a I was a person who, like as a child, I was always very theatrical.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_07: I was always running around doing skits in my house.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_07: I think there's some really embarrassing videos on my mom's Facebook somewhere, you know.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_07: So I was always doing that, and my parents put me in theater when I was pretty young, which is pretty awesome of them.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_07: And I just kept going.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_07: So then I was doing theater in high school and I was acting while I was there.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_07: I ended up going to U of H and it was a really good fit for me.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_07: And I did acting, but pretty soon after I graduated, I shifted to um directing pretty quickly.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_07: So I've been doing in the past few years, been doing a lot of directing and producing of my own work, and acting has kind of been a little bit pushed to the side for a bit.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_07: But when I have gotten to act, it's been really special.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_07: And I feel like I get to do um really special projects like this one.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_07: Um, or I did the the panto at stages a few years ago, and it was with Teatrix a Latinx Theater Company in Houston.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_07: We did Alicia in Wonderland.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_07: So I feel like when I do get to act and do get to kind of use those skills, it's this really like special kind of homecoming.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_07: Um, even though that's maybe not always my focus um in my career otherwise.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_07: But so long story short is I feel like I've always been performing.
• 9:11
  Brett: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Brett: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Brett: Well, you know, it's interesting.
• 9:14
  Brett: I talk to a lot of people, and I think that we're artists and we don't see the opportunities like we're always there doing your self-producing and and going out and making the space for you when there isn't that there.
• 9:26
  Brett: So where are you producing shows?
• 9:28
  Brett: I mean, is it here in Houston or is it elsewhere?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_07: Here in Houston.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_07: Um the the first show I produced was Cloud Tectonics by Jose Rivera, and that was very self-produced.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_07: And I did it at the match, the space did it with friends.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_07: Actually, did it with Sophia Marcel, who's also in Real Women Have Curves, she's playing with Rosselli.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and we went to school together.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_07: So we did that project together, and it was really, really special.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_07: I directed and she acted.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and from there, I I also work at Rec Room Arts downtown, and I uh get to use their space.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_07: So part of what I do there is the happy hour readings, uh, which is me and Emma Bacon.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_07: It's a monthly play reading series where we read an either a new play or a new play to us.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, excuse me, every month, every first Monday of the month.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_07: And um, and we also do staged readings.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_07: So we do very cold readings monthly, but we also do staged readings with some rehearsal and actors and lights and things.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_07: And this year we're gonna do our first full production, which is really exciting.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_07: So that that's kind of developing into its own sort of though rec room is our parent company, like happy hour is also sort of this producing entity within it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, and that's kind of where I do most of my um producing work is rec room.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Brett: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Brett: Well, I have to tell you, Brenda, those happy hour readings are legendary.
• 10:46
  Brett: I hear about them all the time.
• 10:48
  Brett: And they inspire so much.
• 10:50
  Brett: I mean, I know that some companies have actually produced stuff.
• 10:53
  Brett: Some companies have been born just to produce stuff that they heard at the happy hour readings.
• 10:58
  Brett: So I always keep telling myself, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna come.
• 11:01
  Brett: I definitely have to put it on my radar because I hear I've heard about you for months and months and months.
• 11:07
  Brett: So your reputation precedes you in that.
• 11:10
  Brett: Yeah.
• 11:11
  Brett: Well, tell me about your family.
• 11:12
  Brett: Are they supportive?
• 11:13
  Brett: Like, what is harder for them?
• 11:15
  Brett: Thespian or lesbian?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_07: That's so funny.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_07: Honestly, they're so supportive.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_07: They're so, so supportive.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_07: My parents are like the best people ever.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_07: They're just like really generous, kind people.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_07: And when I was younger, my dad is an immigrant and my mom is from the US.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_07: My dad is a Mexican immigrant.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_07: And he, when I was younger, he was like, I don't care what you do.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_07: I just want you to do it well, and I want you to work hard and I want you to be happy.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_07: So there was never any pushback on me being in theater, on being in the arts, because I think it was always clear to them that it was something I was really passionate about and really cared about and like was working hard at.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_07: And that was kind of what mattered more to them than like making a lot of money or being a dog, you know.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, he does he there there were rumors and talks of uh, you know, me being an engineer one day or I was really into chemistry.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_07: And I think that, you know, they would have been just as happy if I became like a very successful chemist.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_07: But no, that they they've always been really supportive of me.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_07: And it's like the queerness of it all is like yeah, my my parents are really supportive of that too.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_07: It doesn't really feel like it doesn't feel like anything obtrusive in my life.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_07: It was like kind of once I started coming out and it was in phases, right, where I was like, I think I'm bye.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_07: My mom was like, I always told myself I wouldn't be surprised.
• 12:33
  Brett: Mom's always no.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_07: And she, you know.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_07: And then after that, I didn't really come out again in a real way.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_07: You know, it was just kind of like I would talk about who I was dating and would say she, and and that was that, you know.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_07: So it's the queerness of it all has honestly never felt too crazy and uh other than something, you know, internal within myself or like the societal pressures or kind of those things, but directly in contact with them, like they've always been really supportive of me, which I think is pretty lucky.
• 13:04
  Brett: Well, that is amazing, Brad.
• 13:06
  Brett: My parents were against both, okay?
• 13:09
  Brett: They were like, you cannot be an actor and you cannot be It's hard.
• 13:14
  Brett: It's hard for queer community.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_07: It's hard for some people to understand and to like see outside of themselves a little bit.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_07: You know, like that's that's totally hard.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_07: But I think my parents like had so many struggles of their own that like you know, seeing me like this, it they just see me happy.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, they're yeah, they're not worried about the rest.
• 13:34
  Brett: And at the end of the day, that should be what it's about.
• 13:37
  Brett: So I am glad that your parents are there for you in that way.
• 13:40
  Brett: Yeah.
• 13:40
  Brett: Well, okay, so real women have curves, January 23rd through February 15th.
• 13:45
  Brett: One special showing on February 5th, they are gonna have their act out, which it's amazing.
• 13:51
  Brett: It starts at 6:30, and there's a reception, and it's free to attend.
• 13:54
  Brett: If you're part of the community, you just go up the elevator and OutSmart hosts it, and it's it's great.
• 14:00
  Brett: You get to have a drink before it's a little bit of uh appetizers, and then you see this really, really great play, Real Women Have Curves with Brenda Palestina in it.
• 14:09
  Brett: So, and a whole cast of like really fierce women.
• 14:13
  Brett: And I know that it this there's a final scene in this that asks you all to be very vulnerable.
• 14:18
  Brett: Is there any fear about that at all?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_07: Or totally totally there's fear.
• 14:23
  Brett: You all like talk about this?
• 14:24
  Brett: And just for the listeners we're talking about that it asks you to kind of strip down to at least undergarments.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, we undress to undergarments.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and it's uh this happens in the movie as well.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_07: And it does.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_07: But yeah, there's fear, and we definitely talk about it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_07: We we talk about it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_07: Um I mean, it's being it's we're we're being taken care of very, very well here.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_07: Um and and uh the actors like we've been really encouraged to like give input on what we're wearing, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_07: Like what undergarments we're comfortable in and like how this all happens.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_07: So there's a lot that is like within our control or within our collaboration as actors, which is really nice.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_07: But even through all of that, I'm like, yeah, I'm scared, I'm very scared.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_07: But I also think about it like it's not me who's doing it, you know, it's Anna, it's Josefina.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_07: And it's really kind of a gift to have Anna have Josefina, have everyone who's played Anna before me kind of come and visit me and take care of me through this, and you know, give me the the safety to to be the first person to take my shirt off and say, you should all do it, and kind of like start this mini revolution on stage.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_07: So it's also really empowering.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_07: Like me, Brenda, is really scared and wouldn't do this, but Anna would.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_07: And it's really lovely to get to visit her and have her visit me and sort of get that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_07: And and it helps me, Brenda, in turn to be more comfortable and to be more empowered within that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_07: So it's it's kind of like a split mind thing there.
• 16:00
  Brett: Yeah.
• 16:00
  Brett: Well, I have a feeling, Brenda, you're a little bit braver than what you give yourself credit for.
• 16:05
  Brett: So with all the things that you have done, and we are so excited to see you on stage at the alley.
• 16:09
  Brett: Real women have curves.
• 16:11
  Brett: I appreciate you taking the time.
• 16:12
  Brett: I know you've got a vamus because you've got a rehearsal to go to.
• 16:16
  Brett: So we will see you running through February 15th.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_07: Great.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 16:20
  Brett: Thank you so much.
• 16:21
  Brett: Yes.
• 16:28
  Brett: Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and today I am joined by Paul Hope.
• 16:33
  Brett: He produces cabarets that often consist of the great American songbook.
• 16:37
  Brett: Now, he's got an upcoming cabaret called Loverly.
• 16:41
  Brett: It is the Broadway of Learner and Lowe and Lane, and it will be performed three Mondays, Monday, February 9th, the 16th, and the 23rd at 7:30 p.m.
• 16:52
  Brett: at Ovation's Nightclub.
• 16:53
  Brett: Now, if you don't know where that is, it's in the Rice Village.
• 16:56
  Brett: If you've ever been to Main Street Theater, it is right next door.
• 16:59
  Brett: Now, this show is going to include songs from productions like My Fair Lady, Gigi, Camelot on a clear day you can see forever, and a whole lot of others.
• 17:07
  Brett: Learner and Loan Lane.
• 17:09
  Brett: They just came out with so many amazing musicals.
• 17:11
  Brett: And uh Paul has a whole cast performing these, including himself, Lawrence Alezar, and Tamara Seiler.
• 17:19
  Brett: So, hey Paul, thank you.
• 17:21
  Brett: Thank you for coming and talking about this.
• 17:23
  Brett: Well, great.
• 17:24
  Brett: Thank you.
• 17:24
  Brett: How long have you been doing these cabarets and staging concert style shows?
• 17:28
  Brett: Because I feel like I have not known a Houston scene without you.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: They the cabarets started back when I had BioCity concert musicals.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then when uh BioCity folded, I then resurrected the cabarets back at ovations, which is where they started.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we we've been and and then we became our own nonprofit, Paul Hope Cabarets.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we've been doing these about, I'd say about nine years, eight or nine years.
• 17:58
  Brett: Yes iteration.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: They really started, but I've been doing the cabarets for almost 20.
• 18:03
  Brett: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:04
  Brett: No, I remember just going all the way back.
• 18:06
  Brett: Yeah.
• 18:07
  Brett: All the things.
• 18:07
  Brett: And it's always great.
• 18:08
  Brett: The singers are just incredible.
• 18:10
  Brett: I mean, I'm just I've always been just amazed at the level of talent that you've got.
• 18:14
  Brett: And of course, when you're doing the the Great American Songbook, I mean, how are you gonna go wrong?
• 18:18
  Brett: You know?
• 18:18
  Brett: Those are great songs.
• 18:20
  Brett: But I did want to ask, how do you pick which material you're gonna cover?
• 18:23
  Brett: In particular, why learner low and lame for this?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, when we started the cabarets, I've been working chronologically through the Broadway songbook.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So our very first cabaret was before the turn of the century.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was like 1860.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then we've we've gone through the operetta composers, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin, Gershwin Porter, Rogers and Hart, Rogers and Amerstein.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: We got through up through we've finished with the 40s.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're just about done with the 50s and are tipping into the 60s now.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we'd already done Lerner and Lowe and Lane in the 40s.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we've already done a cabaret that featured songs from Brigadoon, Finney and Rainbow, and Paint Your Wagon and movie songs that Alan J.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Lerner had contributed to in the 40s.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: So this is our second one of Learner and Lowe and Lane.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Burton Lane, Burton Lane is the man who wrote the songs for Finny and Rainbow.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he then collaborated with Alan J.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Lerner a few times and on film and on Broadway.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we're including him.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: They wrote on a clear day together.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what this show is about.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, next year we're doing our first Sondheim cabaret, but it's Sondheim and Richard Rogers.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's early Sondheim, late Rogers.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing our first Psycholman.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we're tipping into the 60s.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: So and it's kind of like as as the shows get younger, so does our audience.
• 19:54
  Brett: Well, you know, it's always good to know your history.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and the the other thing, well, and the other thing is that people have really liked about these is I am C and I give info on the shows.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I try to dig up as many anecdotes as I can about the stars, about the show's pre-opening or during the run, about the composers themselves, and without keeping it dry.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Try to keep this as entertaining as possible.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: What's been lovely is when our audiences people will come to me at almost every performance and say, I I enjoy you what you're sharing as much as the songs themselves.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives some context to the songs, but without me coming off as Professor Poop faced.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know.
• 20:39
  Brett: Well, it says musical theater.
• 20:41
  Brett: And you know, it was still like their Hollywood.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it also doesn't hurt that since I've I'm in the business, and particularly with all of the the people out of New York that I've worked with through the years at Theater Under the Stars, I collect stories.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's somebody that's worked with somebody, go, well, tell me about tell me about when you were on the road with Lorelai.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me Carol Channing's stories.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me, tell me about this, tell me about that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: So and I never forget a good story.
• 21:11
  Brett: Well, um, obviously, learner and low and lane.
• 21:14
  Brett: Um, do you have a favorite show of theirs?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is there one that you look at and you go, Wow, this is the this is the oh well, you know, I uh you know, people talk about various shows being, oh, this is a perfect musical, this is a perfect musical.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like people talk about guys and dolls, which is not learner and low and lane, uh being the perfect musical.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say, yes, it is it is like so beautifully structured and written and whatever, but it doesn't, it's not a show I love.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I admire it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I always I think My Fair Lady is such a gorgeous show.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Camelot is not as well written as My Fair Lady, but the score is amazing, is gorgeous, and uh the songs from Gigi are like caviar.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I'd have to say as far as the scores, I probably like on a clear day.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I love the songs from On a Clear Day, which was not as anywhere near as big a hit as as those other shows were.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Camelot has I think a lot of people would be surprised to know it was not nominated for best musical in its year.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Score, yes, you know, and uh and Burton won for the Tony, you know, abundant won the Tony, etc.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but um the thing about Lerner, Lerner and Lowe and Lane is with Alan J.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Lerner, you have a very wonderful lyricist.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: He was a very witty, witty, urbane uh lyricist.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and uh Frederick Lowe wrote such fantastic melodies, gorgeous lyrical melodies.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's it's always lovely is because I do have young singers in my cast.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have a cast that spans ages.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I have a wonderful young tenor in this who's who, of course, immediately said, Can I, when I said we were doing this, he said, Can I sing on the street where you live?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Of course.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask you to sing on the street where you live.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: But he's also singing Ziji.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he had never heard the title song of Zizhi.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, My lord, I love this song.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love this song.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And at rehearsal this week, he said, My audition book has just swelled since I've been doing these shows for you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I always love it that I'm introducing singers to uh to song literature that they're not just singing stuff that they already know.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking of audiences.
• 23:40
  Brett: Yeah, no.
• 23:40
  Brett: Speaking of the singers and the musicians, where do you find these people?
• 23:43
  Brett: I mean, because you yeah, you get some of the best singers in the city.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, some of them came from BioCity Concert Musicals.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've known Tamara Siler for years.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whitney Zangarini, who's one of my regulars, who was was some Whitney performed for me at BioCity Concert Musicals.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: I have Richard Paul Fink, who is he's our oldest singer.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's a retired baritone from the Met, and I've known him for 30 years.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like for instance, Lauren Salazar, in my decade that I was teaching, and I was teaching out at Lone Star College Sci Fair, and they asked me to direct Evita, and she was one of my Ava Perones.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I know Lauren.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: She sang Evita for me.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Then if I simply if I'm, you know, people are not available, or I need it's like, oh, I need a tenor.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I will ask the people that work for me, anybody you you've worked with that I don't know.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that tenor I referred to, who's singing Gigi, his name's he's Greek.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: His name's Pantelis Karastamatis.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's he performs at Drunk Shakespeare.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's one of that company.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and so he was recommended to me and he was contacted for me.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: They said he'd love to do the show.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we got together on the phone.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Could you just sing to me over the phone?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he sang a Jerome Kern song, so he got a gold star right there.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Great, you know, come on, what we're here's when rehearsal starts.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he's been part of our core company ever since, and our audiences have just fallen in love with him.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not only does he have a glorious voice, but he's as cute as a button.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people are you know, so he's our our sort of our little matinee idol.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've had I have three young, three new singers this year that have started working for us.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And one is a young man who has been doing the youth theater at uh Main Street.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And when I called, he was like, Yes, I would kill to perform for adults.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so and he, you know, and then Richard, my my baritone, my my opera singer, was worked for the GNS Society, was in Iolanthe this last summer, and I needed an extra soprano.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he had somebody that he'd been chomping at the bit to recommend to me.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so Laura came on board and has already done two shows for us and is gonna be a regular.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's a sort of I, you know, I hear people are recommended to me, and I I contact them, you know.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's mostly how I get these people.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And but I don't they always sing for me first.
• 26:28
  Brett: Yeah, of course.
• 26:29
  Brett: Yes.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they're recommended they're if they can't sing very well, they're not recommended to me to begin with.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, but you know Yeah, I'm sure.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I've been but I've been very blessed to have a really talented group and our audiences really love them.
• 26:43
  Brett: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Brett: Well, let's talk a little bit about you, Paul.
• 26:46
  Brett: I mean, I know kind of your story, but our audience may not.
• 26:49
  Brett: Um, where did you get your start and why would I know Paul Hope?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, a lot of people may know me because I was a member of the resident acting company at the Alley Theater for 25 years.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: But before I was at the Alley, I grew up at Tuts.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um I before and after the Alley, I've been at Tuts, and I believe my my grand total is of all the local actors, I've done the most Tut shows.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think my latest tally was 44 musicals.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I first did my first Tut show when I was 19.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was a sophomore in college, and and have b worked at Tuts before I was a member of the union, before Tuts even offered union contracts.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: You got$250 total for doing a show.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you'd have to wait a few years to get it if they were in lean times.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it was through people that I met at Tuts that I got the tour of Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, which the Houston company of that that became the national tour.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I've and in all the years I've been in Houston, it's like I've sort of worked at some point or other, I've worked for most of the or a lot most of the I'll say most of the theaters in town.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I've done shows at stages, I've done shows at Main Street.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not a whole lot.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I could fill up one hand with either theater.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've performed for HGO, I've uh narrate a b narrated a ballet for Houston Ballet.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: So and I've directed for University of Houston and for Rice University and for Houston Community College and Lone Star College.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've just been all over the place.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done, besides Horehouse, I also did a tour that Tutz produced of Mayhem with Juliet Prouse.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm just sort of a I'm a I'm a Houston theater dinosaur.
• 28:36
  Brett: No, I think it's you're a legend, basically.
• 28:38
  Brett: I mean, you're you've done everything and you've been everywhere, and it's amazing.
• 28:42
  Brett: And I I just thrilled.
• 28:43
  Brett: Sometime I need to bring you back and have you just talk about the history of that.
• 28:47
  Brett: Because speaking of stories, you probably have a couple, I would suspect.
• 28:51
  Brett: Well, yeah, well yeah.
• 28:52
  Brett: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Brett: And I was gonna ask, you know, do you have a favorite role that you've done here in Houston?
• 28:56
  Brett: I mean, I guess whorehouse is probably up there.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, no.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whorehouse was like the job everyone wanted.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, because I mean, you're on a Broadway contract, it was the Broadway production and the Broadway team put it together, and I was hired to be the swing, which meant I understudied all of the Aggies and all of the little parts that they did.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also understudied the three smallest principal roles and was an assistant stage manager.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I uh I was very busy, and um, but it wasn't until I think that I'd been with it about a year before I went, you know what, I don't enjoy doing this show.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I'm glad for the job, and it's certainly the most money proportionately, because this was in like 82, 81, 82, certainly the most money I ever made in the business.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I suddenly I thought there is nothing in this show that shows off what I do best, you know, which is basically you know being an actor who sings and and moves well.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: But there was nothing in Horehouse, you know, that that showed that off.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was work.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I got to tour the country in it, and you know, and it certainly I've got a national tour on my resume.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: But uh you're to in answer to your question, um some of my favorite roles were have been I loved playing Barrymore, the ghost of John Barrymore in I Hate Hamlet, uh Beverly Carlton in The Man Who Came to Dinner.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I played Surge in Art when the Alley did art.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And even though it wasn't a good production, I loved playing Richard in Hay Fever at the alley.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Which unfortunately, in 25 years at the alley, that's the only Noel Coward play that I ever got to do there.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was a coward play at U of H that got me in the door at the alley originally.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Greg didn't want to produce Coward, you know, so you know, and you know, so whatever.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm at the mercy of what they decide to program.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I got to do a lot of Agatha Christie instead.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But those are some of my really my favorite roles.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I could have done Beverly Carlton for a few more months.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I really had such a great time doing that part.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: And in musical theater, I think one of my faves um that I've always had a blast with, I've gotten to play it three times, is Max Detweiler in The Sound of Music of all things.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can by the time they've had enough of the nuns and the kids, you come on and have adult humor.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so the audience is real ready for somebody who's a smart ass.
• 31:32
  Brett: It's always that's the best role, period, in any show.
• 31:36
  Brett: If you get to have that one scene where you're the comic relief, then go for it all the time.
• 31:40
  Brett: Exactly.
• 31:40
  Brett: No, well, what do you think about the Houston theater scene today?
• 31:44
  Brett: I mean, it's definitely evolved and changed and and partially due to uh just uh the pandemic and what all we've been having to do, but is there any shows that you would love to see produced here or that you would just love to produce, like a musical or something that you just feel like we're not quite hitting them yet?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think, you know, I think we're what's changed, I I'll talk I'll talk about theater under the stars, and this is not knocking them because they've gotta make money.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: And when Frank Young was alive, he's like everyone you know Frank would even say, I'd love to do uh fanning was a show that he loved.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: But he's like, I can't sell it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or he'd he'd go, There's no physical production of it that I can rent.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of times he was constrained by what what physical productions were available, you know, because Tuts did not build their own productions, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um but I think uh in order to cultivate younger audiences um Tuts is not doing what you would call golden age musicals anymore, which is what Tuts was built on.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Frank pretty much built Tuts with um only doing musicals that movies had been made of, you know, because they would have maximum recognition, name recognition with his audiences.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say that audiences have changed in that I think they are much more cognizant of more recent shows that have been on Broadway.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um you uh Tuts can can sell in the Heights, uh, you know, can program in the Heights and you know, and sell very well, but will have trouble selling tickets, I think, to South Pacific.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that might be have been one of the last golden age productions that they, you know, that they did.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think the the golden age shows, or the chestnuts, if you want to be irreverent, now are becoming the province of the opera.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So and and I still will hear things, little murmurings that over at Tutz about grumbling about why is the opera doing the sound of music.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, hey, you know, you want to do, you know, if you're upset by that, then you do the sound of music.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're the musical theater company, but you don't want to do the sound of music.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: You want to do Back to the Future and Million Dollar Quartet and Beautiful, because that's what's gonna sell for you.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: But sound of music will sell for the opera.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there's room for everybody at the table.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I will say, uh, another thing about the Houston theater scene is um I think there are the smaller groups, which are I'd call the edgier ones, like uh say Catastrophic and Mildred's umbrella, and although I don't think of them necessarily as edgy, but more the more off-Broadway kind of companies, uh Fourth Wall and you know, are um are seem to be surviving.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they they have more longevity than comparable companies did in the past.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: There were theaters that were the kind of sort of off-Broadway type theaters when I was growing up in Houston theater that would be around for, you know, five, six, seven years and then they'd fold.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And now they have more support from the community and are, you know, they they're they're I won't if they're not thriving, they're at least surviving, and they have loyal followings.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's how theater in Houston, theater in Houston is is, you know, uh how it has changed or why it's what's unique about it uh today.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the diff I've also one year I lived up in the Metroplex, and the difference between Houston and Dallas is that Houston's big theaters are bigger than the big theaters in DFW.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: But DFW has more small equity theaters than Houston does.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think Houston is slowly catching up.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you also had like outlying equity theaters up there that are in Garland or, you know, that are Granberry, places where Dallas and Fort Worth actors can work, you know.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: So but we're getting away from the cabarets.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how that's uh that's uh you know, about I think that's the difference.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to see more equity theaters.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the smaller theaters have equity contracts in Houston, which is not to say that the non-equity places aren't doing fabulous work.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 36:07
  Brett: Yeah.
• 36:08
  Brett: Well, I think it's you know, you ask any of those companies, as you mentioned, I think money is one of the things that's always on their mind and it's gonna sell.
• 36:16
  Brett: But we do have you and we do have Loverly and uh the Cabaret Show, where we're gonna hear Learner and Low and Lane, which I don't think that any of their shows has been done recently in Houston.
• 36:26
  Brett: So if you want to hear songs from things like My Fair Lady, Gigi Camelot on a clear day you can see forever, you have to come to Ovations, uh right next to Main Street Theater and Mondays in February, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing, one last thing is what we have coming up in May.
• 36:42
  Brett: Oh, yes.
• 36:43
  Brett: What's May?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing a Disney cabaret, which is very different.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is usually, you know, I I thought before we leave the 40s and 50s, I I was listening to Barbara Cook's Disney album, which is delicious.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought these are part of the great American songbook, which is what we do.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I mean, this is pre-Alan Minken Disney.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so I thought we need to do a Disney cabaret.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody is jumping up and down.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had to tell Lawrence Salazar, no, you cannot sing anything from Frozen.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, we're not doing that yet.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um it is a it is a grown-up audience Disney cabaret, so don't bring your children.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: But that'll be uh that's coming up in May.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think with the singers I have, it's gonna be, you know, a pretty fantastic uh evening, just as Loverly is going to be.
• 37:42
  Brett: Yeah.
• 37:42
  Brett: Well, those early Disney movies, didn't they get a lot of Broadway singers and stuff to do the voice of the music?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like not so much Broadway people, but they had Broadway songwriters like Sammy Fain, who wrote Dumbo and I think he'd wrote the songs from Peter Pan before the Sherman brothers came on board, was doing you know wonderful stuff.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he was somebody who had written for Broadway and actually I think was more successful as a film writer.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um uh the oh, and another thing is about Loverly is that it's a great chance for young audiences to come discover the songs from Fair Lady and Camelot and Gigi that may not have may not have and we also have a couple of songs from Royal Wedding, which was the Fred Astaire movie with Fred Astaire and Jane Powell, because Burton Lane and Alan J.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Lerner wrote the songs for that movie.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's uh it's pretty pretty varied.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, the the Disney songs are fantastic, the Disney song book.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: So come you can come see us in in May if you're not able to make it in February.
• 38:50
  Brett: Yeah, but no, I'm making it in February.
• 38:51
  Brett: I'm sorry.
• 38:55
  Brett: And then I'll be back.
• 38:56
  Brett: All right for Disney or deal.
• 38:58
  Brett: Thank you, Paul.
• 38:59
  Brett: Thank you so much for talking to me about all of this and and everything.
• 39:02
  Brett: Thank you, Brett.
• 39:03
  Brett: Yeah, letting me wax nostalgic about uh Houston Theater and how it's changed.
• 39:09
  Brett: I think that we would be remiss if we hadn't addressed that a little bit, and we'll have to talk about that more at some point.
• 39:13
  Brett: Absolutely.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: See that's a whole other interview, you know.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: So promise me you'll be back.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: So absolutely.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: Jacob Newsom with Power of the Narrative, and we have a very special guest.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Her name is Raquel Willis, and I'm gonna give a beautiful introduction here.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: She's an award-winning black trans activist, journalist, and author of the memoir The Risks It Takes to Bloom.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: She co-founded the gender liberation movement and hosts the podcast Afterlives and Queer Chronicles.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she's very, very, very active, national organizer at the Transgender Law Center and director of communications at Miss Foundation for Women and so, so much more.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Raquel, do you want to add anything else in there?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the resume, the CV, if you will, but at my heart, I am a Southern girl.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe in the power of the South in particular.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm from Georgia and I'm an auntie.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have five nibblings through my origin family, but there's plenty of nibblings in the community.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I would add today.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you talked about the power of the South because I'm from Texas, and so what does it mean to you to be from the South and embody like a black trans identity?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I like many other folks grew up in the South feeling like I needed to get out.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think especially when you're queer and trans, there's this feeling that you have to go elsewhere to find your liberation or find freedom to be your full self.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of that is false.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think there are ways to find your liberation wherever you are.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I what I've learned after kind of living in different places, live down in Oakland, California, currently living in Brooklyn, New York.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of folks have this assumption, right, that the South is just defined by the hard things of the past, right?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: That it's defined by, for instance, enslavement of African Americans and Jim Crow and to now, bans on trans people having access to damn near everything and abortion bans and and so on.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the South becomes a convenient scapegoat for folks in other places in the United States.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those systems of oppression don't just exist in the South, they exist all over.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we wouldn't have a lot of our liberation movements without the fight and the power of the South, right?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get the civil rights movement without the power of the South.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get so many other powerful fights, including the fight for migrants without what's happening in the South.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my long debrief on why I believe in um us reclaiming the South in a different way.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: When you think about some race from the South growing up, what really sticks with you?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I was writing my book, my memoir, The Risk It Takes to Bloom, that came out in November 2023, I was trying to like place myself in Augusta, Georgia, which is where I'm from.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: I always just thought about this magnol magnolia tree that grew in our neighbor's yard, kind of reaching over into our backyard of my childhood home.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think of the land, I think of the greenery, I think of family reunions and cookouts and fish fries.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Fish fry, yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the root pass after chart.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that come to mind immediately when I think about the style.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely the fish fry.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: My grandma used to fry the best cat frid catfish, banana pudding.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: What uh do you resonate with religion at all?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know that's very integral to the South that come up for you.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like a lot of other queer and trans people, I have a complicated relationship to religion.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say that I subscribe to organized religion, but I am a very faithful person.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely feel connected to ancestors, both biological and more spiritual.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I carry a sense of respect for some aspects of what I glean from Catholicism.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of like a a mixy background, right?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I grew up very Catholic.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I want to ask, because I know you you mentioned your memoir, so that it's making me curious.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, writing your memoir, or even when you had the idea, when did you realize your story wasn't?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Just personal to you, but it was carrying something bigger than you, almost something prophetic.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that I had a truth to share, I think at a very young age.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Was it always a matter of not if but when was I going to have to tell this truth?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I got older and and especially in college when I was studying journalism and I I joked that my third major was basically my transition.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I knew then that there was a story unfolding that I needed to share, largely because I just didn't have access to enough stories to give me guidance at that time.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is like 2012, 2013, which, you know, doesn't seem like that long ago.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of where the world is culturally and socially, it was right before Laverne Cox was on Orange is the New Black, definitely before the Caitlin Jenner of it all, for better and mostly worse.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I knew there was a story there that I wanted to share.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it was about living a little bit more life, the survival piece, trying to hold down jobs.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was working at jobs where I was just exhausted from writing and thinking all day about everything else under the sun, as my mom would say, that I just didn't have enough energy left for my own story.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, my career just started to grow.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I became more of an activist too.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it really wasn't until this, until 2020 when the pandemic happened, I had just gotten laid off from Out Magazine with like pretty much our whole crew, and the world shut down that it was quiet enough and still enough for me to get this out on the page.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I think to be honest, like, um, like how am I gonna create the conditions to do the these next projects that I have in the pipeline?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a whole nother thing.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Those were those the moments I think of the journey where it started to crystallize more that there was a story here.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think 2020, even as we went into the summer, my approach to the story shifted too because I was kind of obsessed with not writing just another trans memoir in a sense of like focusing on my body and medical transition.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to tell a story of a black trans woman coming into consciousness.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I also deepened the earlier part of the book where it's more of my coming into myself by understanding the importance of telling a black trans southern story.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because there really hadn't been a major black trans southern memoir since 1994 when the Lady Chablis, who was starring Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, wrote her autobiography, Hiding My Candy, which people should read.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so fun.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Her voice is down so beautifully in that autobiography.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: Hiding my candy.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna remember that one.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: What stuck out to you about her autobiography?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: I so many things.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: The interesting thing is she's talking about desire and romance fresh out of the gate.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: She tells, she's telling a story about this beautiful man that she met who they were both head over heels with for each other.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't disclose that she was trans.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: All she did was invite him to one of her shows because she was a a female impersonator.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's what she would have called herself.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: She kind of goes through being announced on stage, and then he's in the audience, like not knowing what's gonna happen, and then that's it.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: So a whole bunch of stuff ensues, but I I just think that story is just so brazen and it is a story told comically, but like right now I'm working on some projects about desire and validation and romance as a black trans woman, and that's just such a nugget for me.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that is there for me.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think what else does she she write about?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think how she talks about her identity is interesting, like seeing herself as a woman, but she also kind of rejects a lot of the assumptions we have about what trans women should want to do or have to do to fully be themselves.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: She just rejects a lot of those narratives.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's a good read.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, me interest.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna check this out.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: Woo! Let me let me okay.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because I heard the word nuggets in here, so it got me thinking too.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: So what truths have you had to hold back, not from fear, but because the world hasn't earned them yet?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm challenging you with this one, I know.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: What truths have I had to hold back because the world wasn't quite ready?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or they haven't earned them.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or hasn't earned them.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that the world will ever earn some of those truths.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: The main one, and this goes into what I was just talking about with the Lady Shablis, but dating about 10 years ago for BuzzFeed.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember she shared it and was saying so much of it resonated with her.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so funny that that was kind of, I think, an initial connection for her.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing I will say is I did go see her one woman show.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: I guess my big takeaway is not to like stay on this for so long as that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think I really feel like if you are not a black trans woman, have not or are not, we have a very unique experience navigating love and romance that the majority of people just do not have the range to understand the risks that we often have to take to get the validation that almost everyone desires, right?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just the other day I was um out with some friends and I was talking to this guy who would started chatting and he was like flirting and everything.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was like, Yeah, well, I used to be a cop, I might be one again.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, sorry, can't, you know.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: I grilled him a bit.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, do you not have any concerns about being a part of this very deadly system for our people?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't really have any insights that satisfied me.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I just that couldn't be me.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then similarly, I think there's never, I don't know that I've ever talked to anyone who was like politically conservative.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just I think there's so many things about me that filter people out that just wouldn't happen.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: The bigger question for me and and the bigger point of consideration is people need to to consider the political piece, is not necessarily a great litmus test for the dating partners for trans people because there are plenty of progressive people who have piss poor politics around transphobes.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: There are plenty of people who were tearing Laverne apart who are not considering whether their partners are transphobic, which I think is something that even cis people should be considering, right?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you give a free pass to having a transphobic partner, what is your dog in this fight?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was a lot of the argument was like he's voting for someone who's working against your rights.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you might be with someone who doesn't care about my existence either.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: How many of y'all are having conversations with your partners about whether they are pro-Palestinian and anti-genocide or not?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I would venture to say probably a lot of them don't care what their partners' opinions are on genocide.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we could do this all day.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: People should take this as a point of introspection, not permission to tear down a black trans woman who made it possible for you to even have your crusty critiques online today, anyway.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Voices move through me.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I I definitely think Sylvia Rivera, her fiery unapologeticness, her desire to call out systems and institutions is so a part of me.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: I like to thank Baldwin and Audrey Lore.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Feminists, I mean, you know, I think people like Julia Serrano and Patricia Hill Collins and Belle Hooks and Barbara Smith and, you know, the Kumbahi River Collective and so many folks move through me.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Angela Davis, you know, I think that they're a lot.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think people like Robin C.G.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly, who really pushes how we think about the black radical tradition a lot, Cedric Robinson, who has written about capitalism um in in very deep ways.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so many.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: These are some powerful voices that you're talking about.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to, I'm thinking too.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I like I like magic metaphors.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so my last question will be So if your voice is a spell, what enchantment do you want to leave on the world now and long after you're gone?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: These are great questions.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, Jacob.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of spell do I want to leave on the world?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I just always go back to those core values for me.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's authenticity, vulnerability, empathy, and joy.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the vibes I want to leave on the world.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to encourage the disruptors.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see disrupting as necessarily or only destructive, right?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can disrupt by building something different.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want folks who feel like they don't belong to belong.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: I wish that even for the people I I don't agree with, right?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I actually feel like I actually feel like for instance the conservatives or the MAGA people or whoever else I might be ideologically opposed to, J.K.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Rowling, right?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: J.K.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: Rowling, especially.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're dealing with a crisis of belonging and they're just going about it in the most harmful, violent ways.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: If they can figure out how to flip that and understand that there's a universal challenge around belonging, then maybe they would see things a little differently.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: Raquel, thank you so much for coming on.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: Your words are honestly more than answers.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're I feel like inheritances.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_03: I also want to honor you too for the risk, the vision.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: In this time of fascism, increased restriction, we're seeing the National Guard deployed.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing deportations of folks of all different citizenship statuses.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're continuing to see these attacks on the rights of trans folks, particularly the youth, reproductive justice, voting rights.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everything is on the chopping block.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Our environment.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, the genocides and crises happening the world over, from Gaza to Sudan and the Congo.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to encourage people to find community, find those spaces where you can process these things.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to have your moments of escape, but we all have a duty to not just bear witness, but to figure out our part in ending not just our own suffering, but the suffering of others.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe the pendulum is gonna is gonna uh swing in a different direction.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it is inevitable as long as we continue to be present and do the work and continue to figure out how to connect to each other.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: So be radically defiant.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do not lay down and obey.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's what all the fascism scholars tell you, Timothy Snyder and on.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do not obey.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do not obey.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: Do not obey.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: You hear that?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Radically defy.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: Radically defy.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Raquel.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for coming on.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: I hope to have you on for future episodes.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 56:57
  Brett: Thank you for listening to Queer Voices.
• 56:59
  Brett: Real Women Have Curs runs at the alley through February 15th.
• 57:04
  Brett: Paul Hope's cabaret Loverly will be on Mondays in February at Ovation's starting February 9th.
• 57:11
  Brett: And Raquel Willis's book, The Risk It Takes to Bloom, can be found anywhere books are sold.
• 57:16
  Brett: Queer Voices is executive produced by Brian Lovinka, Deborah Moncrief Bell, and Brett Cullum are producers, Arlie Ingalls, Jacob Newsome, Davis Mendoza DeBruisman, and Joel Tatum are frequent contributors.
• 57:30
  Brett: Please consider donating to KPFT in Houston by visiting KPFT.org and clicking on donate.
• 57:44
  Ghost of Glenn: Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime.
• 57:48
  Ghost of Glenn: This program does not endorse any political views or animal species.
• 57:51
  Ghost of Glenn: Views, opinions, and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent.
• 57:54
  Ghost of Glenn: In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining products.
• 57:58
  Ghost of Glenn: For queer voices, I'm Glenn Holt.