Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Mystery of the Yuba County Five

Transcript

The Mystery of the Yuba County Five · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In February of nineteen seventy eight, five young men vanished
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: into the vast wilderness of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, leaving
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: behind their car and their belongings. They had set out
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: for a night of fun at a basketball game, but
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: their travels took them in a direction far from home,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and they were never heard from again.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: My name is Nicole and I'm Ben, and you are
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: listening to Wicked and Grim, a.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: True crime podcasting podcast listener just questioning.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: This that.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We've been busy.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, kidding, it's been NonStop, but I think we're
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: at the moment we're finally going to get the control
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: of things. Oh sorry, go ahead.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just gonna say you had a very busy
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: weekend and now things might settle down a bit.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Eh, fair enough, fair enough. I'm a bit of a
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: con goer, and so there was a local comic con
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: going on. So yeah, did that. It's done, and now
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: back to the grindstone, you know, as they say.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, last night we were at a WHL game, cheering
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: on our team that unfortunately lost.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately yea, Prince George Cougar's WHL is hockey. For those
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: who don't know, yeah, and yeah they were doing phenomenal.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: It's in the playoffs and yeah, they just couldn't make
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: it onto the next round. So they did a good job.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Though they did awesome. I feel like they did fantastic.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Nothing to well. I mean, I get being disappointed, but
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: like they should also be.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Proud, you know, oh definitely one hundred percent.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, speaking of like the con, I to cons
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: for like food and mostly just food.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like hechet touche. There's some good food at cons.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there's also some bad food in con sometimes.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: This con, which I think was a new vendor, had
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a cotton candy booth. Yeah, holy shit, this podcast we're
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: about to do is fueled by that cotton candy. I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: went through three tubs of it while researching, which I
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's a great thing or not.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Let's give the vendor a shout out. It's the cotton
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: candy shop over in Alberta. So they're in Fort Saskatchewan,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, go check them out, because dang, they had
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: like banana split oh billini blinikay. Someone a friend of
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: mine had bacon and it made me try bacon.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Oh was that good?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: It was like a forbidden fruit. It was like, this
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be a thing, but it was still good. Okay,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: it was like bacon bits melted on my mouth.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I went for more like natural flavors. But anyway, I also,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: do you feel like my teeth might need you know,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: a good good cleaning.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Clean after cotton candy? Yeah, you have a lot of
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: cotton candy.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: But I also wanted to showed out Amanda Howitt because
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: she put this, We've gotten this case recommended to us
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: like numerous times. We do know about it, but she
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: kind of brought it at the forefront of my mind
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: again recently in a post on our Patreon. So, yeah,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: we're covering the mystery of the Yuba County five.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I'm stoked for this because, as you guys know, diatlave
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: pass incident is one of my favorite cases of all time.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: That's the very first case we ever covered on the show,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and this is known as what It's like the American
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: diatla pass. Right, Yeah, so I am super excited for this.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I have not done a deep dive into this. I've
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: watched a couple of little like YouTube videos, done a
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: little bit of reading, but I've never done a deep dive,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited to do what you come up with.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize quite what I was getting myself into.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: This is like a case and a half, Like I
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: probably could have done this in two cases, but we're
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: gonna just We're going to just do it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: And sorry, we're going to sparkle up for a ride,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: is what you're saying.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I mean I needed that con candy like this.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I went down a rabbit hole and a half too,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: but you had to for this case.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Do you know what else we need We need to
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: thank We need to thank our patrons.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: So if you didn't know we have a Patreon, we
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: can go ahead and support us. You can get the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: extra behind the scenes content and just like Amanda, you
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: can go ahead and even have that opportunity to recommend
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: cases to us. So for patrons that signed up this week,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: we want to give a shout out to Tawny Duval,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Lynn faw Inspect, Karen Williams, Marine Curtin, and Kim Howard Amazing.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for signing up over on Patreon.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: If you want to join the list, you can go
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: ahead and click the link in the description of this
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: podcast and you can sign up for yourself.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a fantastic list, some incredible people over on
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a Patreon to be honest. So, okay, well this is
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: going to be long and long and like good and amazing.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: That's what she said.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I know, God, I know that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: That's what she's like.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to cover this case like it's it's shitty.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Obviously this case is shit. Oh yeah, definitely, but it's
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: very interesting. And yeah, we're gonna just I think we
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: should dive in here.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, And just so you guys know, I do have
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: a whiskey at the ready today.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited for this case because yeah, it's my
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: kind case.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: It is it very much so is let's do it. Okay.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So on February twenty fourth, nineteen seventy eight, a group
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of five young men from Yuba County, California, embarked on
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a seemingly ordinary trip to watch a college basketball game.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Though independent enough to spend time on their own, the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: young men all dealt with mild disabilities and lived at
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: a at home like with their families. So the group
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: consisted of Ted Weir, he was thirty two years old.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: He was a janitor at a junior high at a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: junior high school. His nephew said he was the fun uncle,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: goofy Harry Burley and had curly hair.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: His brother said, his mind and how he projected himself,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: he just couldn't put everything together. He loved macaroni and cheese,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and if he had mac and cheese, he was one
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: happy dog.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I like him already.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm like freck I want to be described
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: like that. That's a fuck amaze.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: He his life goals, honestly.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So then Jack Hewitt, and we're gonna go by Jackie.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: He kind of went by Jackie, but we have another
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Jack in the group, so just you know, ease things
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: were going by Jackie. He's twenty four years old. Jackie
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and Ted were best friends. If you saw Jackie, Ted
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: wasn't far behind, okay. Jackie's brother said he was slower
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: than most of them growing up, and he had a
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: mindset of about sixteen years old, and his sister in
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: law said he didn't see people's bad. He was always
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: smiling and always happy.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Love that. Love that.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: So next, Jack Madruga. He's thirty. He had the nickname
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: of Doc. He was described as a bit more reserved.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Nephew said he was very quiet, socially awkward, a bit
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: nervous speaking to people, so they would think something was
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: wrong with him, but there really was nothing slow about him.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: He served in Vietnam Vietnam, and he did very well
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in school, and he signed up for college all on
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: his own. No right on Bill Sterling, he was twenty nine.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Bill was Jack's best friend. He was described as a
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: sweet guy, very friendly and just wanted to help people,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: wanted to be there for folks. And finally Gary Matthias
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: he was twenty five. He became part of the group
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: a little later than the rest. He was described as
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: an athlete, musician, and would back up his family like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: no questions asked. He also served in the military. So
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: this group of five, they were described as a great
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: tream like I just very briefly described them all, but
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: they kind of just seemed like awesome people, like people
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: like you'd want in your life. Right.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, and I think a big thing two is like
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of us could only hope to have a
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: tight knit group of people that whether it's three, four, five, six, seven,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. I have a nice tight net group
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: like that where we can relate to each other, we
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: can go out and have fun together, and it's just
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: by the sounds of it, love life. So that's like
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: aspiring level of friendship stuff there totally.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I don't even have this in here, but they would
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: like pile into Jack's car, all of them, like windows
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: rolled down, just laughing, like waving and everybody like they
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: were just like love it all fun group. I feel
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: like nice. So their favorite leisure activity was sports. When
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the five of them got together, it was usually to
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: play a game or to watch one. They also played
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: basketball together on a team called the Gateway Gators, a
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: team supported by a local program for people with mental disabilities.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: So following the basketball they were headed to watch the
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: basketball game. I should say the men were all looking
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: four to participating in a week long basketball tournament of
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: their own sponsored by the Special Olympics, with the winners
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: of the competition winning a week long trip to Los Angeles.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, they were determined to bring home the prize, laying
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: their jerseys out in anticipation for the tournament before heading
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to Chico to watch this game. So they set out
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: in Jack's turquoise in white nineteen sixty nine Mercury Montigo.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: It was like his pride and joy apparently, and drove
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the fifty miles to California State University in Chico to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: watch their favorite team, UC Davies play in an away
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: game against Chico. So Jack and Gary were the only
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: two within the group to have a driver's license, and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I believe Jack was the only one with a car,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: so he often drove the group around. After the game,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: they stopped at a convenience store to stock up on
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: some necessities snacks, sodas, and of course chalk melk for
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: the ride.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Hope nice.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, the convenience store clerk remembered the group and she
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: was a bit annoyed to have such a large group
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: show up just as she was starting her duties to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: close the store. So this put them there right around
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: ten PM or so. Okay, The next morning arrived and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: none of the men had returned home the previous night,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and their parents, rightfully so were very worried. They were
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: all known to adhere to like rigid schedules. They weren't
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the type to stay out all night, especially when they
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: had a basketball tournament of their own to attend, Like
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of them their home and their rooms and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: their bed and stuff were like their safe place, right,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: so they didn't spend nights away from home.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I feel that though. I mean I do spend nights
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: away from home, but yeah, home being the safe place,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah, I'm sure not to the degree
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that they they might feel, but I can, I can sympathize.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: No, it makes sense. Yeah, the parents community communicated amongst
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: them selves trying to track down their son's whereabouts until
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Jack's mother contacted the police. Now, being that the men
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: were all over the age of eighteen, a twenty four
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: to forty eight hour kind of thing time frame, ate
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: needed to be like gone past, right, Yeah, before any
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: sort of search was initiated for the men.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit of a preliminary sort of situation,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I understand. But at the same time, there should be
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: exceptions to every rule, right.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I know, because this was frustrating to the families, being
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that all of them had intellectual disabilities, and with that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: many of them, you know, had mindsets of younger than eighteen. Yeah,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: so the families did what they could. On February twenty fifth,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you know, making calls driving the highway between Chico and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Marysville themselves anything that they could think of to do,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: but there was just no sign. There was no sign
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of these missing men.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Damn. Okay, Okay.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: At eight pm they called police once again, stressing how
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: much they needed help, and I believe then a formal
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: search was initiated.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, finally good.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: The route the men should have taken was thoroughly searched,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: but unfortunately it yielded no results. There wasn't a lot
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: of answers that came in the first couple of days,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and often like those first couple of days are kind
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of the most important. That really sucks. It wasn't until
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: February twenty eighth that a US Forest Service ranger, upon
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: noticing a missing person's bulletin, let police know he had
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: found a mercury montego in the Plumus National Forest.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And what day did they go missing? And what day
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: was this reported?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Sorry, so they went missing? They went to that basketball
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: game on February twenty fourth.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, and this was the twenty was the twenty eighth? Okay?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: So four days later?
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Gotcha?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Shit? Now I scrolled, sorry, and I have no idea
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: where the hell we are we are?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, little tip if you're ever doing a podcast, if
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: you guys listen, if you want to do a podcasts
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: and you scroll back for conversational purposes like looking at
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: information before you scroll back, highlight the sentence that you're on,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: so you need to scroll back down. It's like right
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: there and ready to go.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, shit, I still can't find my place.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Really, I just did like a monologue for you to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: buy you time.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Where the fuck am I? Oh? Oh wait, oh wait, okay,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: here I am? Holy shit, Okay, it was just like
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: a mumbo jumble of just words.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Sorry for just distracting and getting you to score.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: That's okay. So yeah, they technically like the search started
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: on the twenty fifth, like that evening, right, So now
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: this is the twenty eighth, And it's funny, I know
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: these dates in my head, but for some reason, you
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: always have to feel like you have to double Oh
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you got to be sure.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: So when investigators arrived at the car, sure enough, you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: know it was the car, and it honestly raised more
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: questions than gave them answers. Though, first of all, the
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: car's location made absolutely no sense to kind of describe
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: this this location and I'll probably post a map on
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: our socials. But so just this Chico to Maryville was
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: like a straight stretch home, Like it was like one
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: road kind of leading from Chico to Marysville. Okay, but
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: what they ended up They took a left turn about
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: halfway between Chico and Marysville, and it was about seventy
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: miles in the wrong direction up in the mountains on
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a remote, winding dirt road.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Oh snap.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: They had reached forty four hundred feet in elevation along
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the road and had stopped just after the snow line.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So their parents said they had not been dressed for
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: this kind of adventure let alone. Would it be something
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: any of them would like, Well, some of them would enjoy,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: like a lot. One of them like hated being cold,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: right and like another one didn't really love spending time outdoor.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So just it just made no sense.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: But even those ones who would enjoy it, Like I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: like going snowshoeting, I like going snowboarding, but I don't
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: like being outside in the snow and the col when
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I don't have my jacket. Yeah, I don't like driving
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: on a snowy, windy road time. Yeah, Like no, Like
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: even if you enjoy some of that stuff.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So the car, having reached snow, initially appeared to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: be stuck as it looked like the tires had been spinning, right,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But there wasn't so much snow that five men, well four,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I guess if one was driving, wouldn't have been able
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to push the car out. There was only about like
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: four or six inches that they were of snow that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: they were stuck in. Okay, they should have been able to,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: like unstuck. Is that the word.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Themselves get unstuck yet? Well, I don't know, but they might.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Not have been experienced in that either, right.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've seen people, but it depends on the tires,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: depends on the vehicle, depends on how you drive, depends
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: on the conditions of the road. Like, there's a lot
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of factors. I've seen people stuck in like one inch
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: of snow.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And you've seen people stuck right off the friggin road
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: in a mud puddle that they should have gone in.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, lots lots of times. With particular time, I was
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: trying to save you from the embarrassment.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: From the embarrasment. Yeah, Okay, So inside the car, investigators
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: found evidence suggesting the men had in fact been in
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the car between their disappearance and the vehicle's abandonment. Wrappers
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and containers from the snacks they had purchased and Chico
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: were present, along with basketball game programs from the game
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that they intended. I should say their team did win
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: two oh, which is very exciting. So the keys to
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the vehicle were not present, which initially suggested the car
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: may have broke down, but the police were able to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: hot wire the car and the engine started just flying.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: The car also had a quarter tank of gas left,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: so they didn't run out of gas. The police became
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: even more puzzled when the car was transported to the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: station to be examined thoroughly. They kind of expected to
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: find significant damage to the undercarriage of the Montego. It
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: had just been driven in the dark a long distance
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: up a mountain road that had many bumps, ruts, and potholes,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: but there was no damage Onceoever, even the low hanging
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: muffler had no damage. This seemed to mean that whoever
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: was driving was being extremely careful or they were familiar
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: with the road, which Jack was not known to be
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and family said he would never let someone else drive
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: his car.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. Most likely I mean individuals like that. I
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: mean someone who tends to have a mindset a little
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: bit younger than what their actual age is. They're usually
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the type to be quite a bit more careful on
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: certain things. Like you said, I believe his name was Jack.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: He loved his car, and he cared for that freaking thing.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: If he's driving, he's going to care for the drive
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: He was probably going pretty slow.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he would make sure that he's doing what
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: he can to carefully navigate, to care for his friends
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: in the passenger seat, in the backseat and the vehicle.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I can see that.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: But it was also like a bit out of character
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: for him to given me going like up a road
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: like in this car.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I'm just speaking to the note damage underneath
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the under the car.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So the other thing though, was the car was unlocked
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: with a window rolled down, which again family said was
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: onlike Jack, Yeah, the car like.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Unsecure like that, right, just like it was saying that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that do care that.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah character, Yeah, because I mean you would, like, what
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: if it's going to snow or something, you would roll
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: up your window at least, right.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So despite efforts of the investigation team and well over
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: two hundred people, and this is including the families of
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the missing men who participated in the search around the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: area where the car was found. No trace of the
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: men were found. The weather, which was very snowy and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the terrain you know, wasn't great, did have some impact
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: on the search, but the search was described by by
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: police as extensive, with the use of horses, vehicles that
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: could do some distance in the snow, and aircrafts. Following
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: media coverage of the case, police received quite a few sightings,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: but there were a few notable, so I'll just go
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: over those, Okay, it sounds good. One being from Joseph Shaans,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: who drove up the same road earlier that evening to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: check on his cabin and the snow levels for an
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: upcoming family ski trip. When he himself too got stuck.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: As he was trying to get out, he started to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: experience what he thought was the early symptoms of a
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: heart attack. I imagine, you know, from the exertion, right, Yeah,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and even.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Just the stress of being up there alone getting stuck
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: in the snow.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the whole combination that suck.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: That's terrifying to me, though, he had no choice but
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to return to his vehicle and rest right in hopes
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that maybe someone would be in the area and could
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: help him. So, around six hours later, he noticed headlights
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: coming up the road behind him and stopping about one
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty feet away. There were several people, one
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: of which appeared to be a woman holding a baby.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: He called out to them, but as as he did so,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: they stopped talking and turned out their headlights. A couple
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: hours later, more lights appeared, but this time it was
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: from flashlights, and as he attempted to call out a
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: second time, the lights again went out. Au jeez, they
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: did not assist him. Oh So, once morning hit and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Joseph had ran out of gas from having his vehicle
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: running the majority of the night to keep warm, right,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: he decided to make the eight mile trek back down
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to get help. There was a lodge that was about
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: eight miles away. His pain had subsided enough that he
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: thought he'd be able to make it, and as he
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: was descending the mountain, he passed Jack's car in the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: spot where he had seen that group the previous night.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Doctors did later confirm Joseph had experienced a mild heart
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: attack that night. So he's honestly like lucky that he survived. No, really,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I mean the fact, I think that he probably like
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: stopped and rested, maybe saved him. I don't know. I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: don't know much about heart attacks, but due to the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: pain he was experienced experiencing it speculated his encounter like
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: if it was real or imagined?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Right, I see, okay, all right.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: He had also recalled seeing a pickup truck briefly parking
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: behind him and then continuing down the road, but he
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: later clarified the police that he could not be sure
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: of that since at the time he was almost like
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: delirious from the pain that he was in.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: So okay.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: But there was another notable report from a woman who
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: worked at a store in Brownsville, thirty miles from where
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the car was found, and it involved a pickup truck.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: She saw four men in a red pickup truck the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: day after the disappearance, so this would be on February
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: twenty fifth. She identified two of the men as being
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Jackie and Bill. They were in a telephone booth outside
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the store or well, the other two went inside. The
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: store owner validated, you know, her account, describing two of
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the men, possibly Ted and Jackie, who were buying burritos,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: chocolate milk, and soft drinks, despite being out of character
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: for them to be in Brownsville when you know, they
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: had their own basketball tournament that day. The behavior that
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was described was consistent with how the families you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: would describe the boys or the men. So, with no
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: clear conclusion about what happened the night the five men disappeared,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: police and the family were not ruling out possibly a
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: foul play unfortunately.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: It's I mean, it sounds like it most likely would be,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: But I mean, who's to say. Of course, I'm sure
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: you've got some more information may lead us into certain
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: thoughts or ideas.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Do I ever have some more information?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Do you ever? Well? Do tell? Do tell?
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: On June fourth, so after most of the higher elevation
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: snow melted, more answers came forward with the discovery of
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: four bodies. A group of motorcyclists exploring the trails of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the of Plumas National Forests came across a Forest Service
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: trailer with the front window broken, and their curiosity got
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the best of them. They could also smell something terrible.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like my curiosity would like I would run,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: but they went and they like checked out the situation.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I probably would poke my head in.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's good because there's something could be
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: very wrong, which it was. As they opened the door
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to explore what they found, it wasn't good. It would
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: later be identified to be Ted's body, laying on a
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: bed inside. The trailer was nineteen miles north from the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: abandoned car. Searches returned following the road between the trailer
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: and the site of the Montego. The following day they
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: found the remains later to be identified as Jack and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Bill eleven point four miles from the car. Jack's body
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: had been practically consumed by animals, and only bones remained
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of Bills, which had been scattered over a small area.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: So the animals like got to the body is so terrible.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Autopsies showed they both died of hypothermia, likela so coming
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to the need to sleep in the like later stages
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of hypothermia. Before even making it to the trailer, Jack
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: had the keys of his Montego in his pocket. Next
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: to be found was Jackie, who was actually found by
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: his father that Yeah, because all the families were very
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: much so involved in the STU. It was described that
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the dad dropped to his knees crying upon finding his
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: son and said, I'm sorry, son. I promised I was
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: going to find you when I like, when I read that,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I was almost sobbing, because that is just so fucking sad,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: like so sad.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: That is.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: What was left of Jackie was mostly bones, but he
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: knew it was his son from the clothes that he
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: was wearing. His death was too confirmed to be from hypothermia.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Nearby searches found three forest service blankets and a rusted flashlight,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: but there was no trace of Gary's remains, and to
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: this day he has never been found.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Really wow, okay, yeah.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Ned to touch a little bit more on Ted's body,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: who was found in the trailer. He was found wrapped
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: tightly on the bed in eight sheets, almost as if
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: he'd been swaddled, like as you'd swaddle a baby. And
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: this is of importance because it wasn't something he could
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: have done himself, right, so it kind of indicated that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: someone was in the trailer with him. His feet were
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: so badly frost bitten, and he had lost nearly half
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: his weight. I described Ted earlier as a burly man
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: he was six foot about two hundred and twenty pounds,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and when he went missing or sorry, when he was found,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: he was probably down to his body was one hundred
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: and twenty pounds.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's like a hundred pounds, no kidding. But
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: in order for that to happen, you would have had
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to be alive for some time.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, for your body to actually, you.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Know, lose that much weight.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to burn the fat and consume the energy and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: even muscle mass of your own body.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So from the growth of his beard, it was
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: suggested that he had lived between eight and thirteen weeks
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: from when he had last shaved, and he was like
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: clean shaven when he left to go to this basketball game.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: He died from starvation and hypothermia. On the table next
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to the bed that Ted was in had a couple
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: of personal items, including his wallet which contained cash, a
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: nickel ring, and a gold necklace. There was also a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: gold watch, which Ted's family said was not his, along
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: with a partially melted candle. So, now the real kickers
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: in regards to this trailer is heating food and the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: ample amounts of this readily available that didn't get used
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: or hadn't been discovered, so no fire had been set
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: in the trailer's fireplace, despite there being matches you know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: wood furniture, paperback novels that could have been used to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: start a fire.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: A shed outside had a butane tank with a valve
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that would have been would have fed the trailer's heating system.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: There was also heavy forestry clothing stored within the trailer
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: that hadn't been touched. It was still like neatly folded.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: In regards to food, a dozen see ration cans, which
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: is like military food from a storage shutout chide had
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: been consumed, but within another locker, even more food to
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: the extent that would have fed the five men for
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: like upwards of a year, hadn't been touched. Oh wow,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that much Yeah, like a lot of Oh.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, see, I did know, like not everything you're talking
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: about here, But I didn't know if there was like
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the beard growth. I didn't know that he was wrapped
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: in a lot of blankets. I did know there were
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: some fuel. I didn't know it was food, but I did.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I was not aware there was that much food.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Wow, okay, wow, Yeah, it wasn't a food locker, so
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they just didn't look in there
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: or what. Ted's family did say he could lack common
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: sense as a result of his mental disability. But they
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: also did say that if he believed that he was stealing,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't have touched it either.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what I was thinking.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, which, oh my gosh, this case, this case.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, individuals like this, they tend to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: be much more careful on things, right, because they're much
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: more respect of things generally. And so, yeah, if he
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to steal, I mean, he doesn't want to.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: He's probably not thinking he's going to die, it's not
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: on his mind. He just doesn't want to steal from
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: someone else.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I know. Like, it's just devastating. Though he was the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: only one found in the trailer, it didn't appear he
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: had always been there alone. For example, like I said,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: the way that he was wrapped in the sheets, he
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to do that on his own.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It's believed that Gary and possibly Jackie had also been
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: in the trailer. Gary's sneakers were in the trailer, and
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the CEA rations had been open with a P thirty
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: eight can opener, which would be familiar only to individuals
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: who had served in the military, and both Gary and
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Jackie had. Investigators felt Gary may have borreled head shoes
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: to go outside, being that they were a bigger size,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and his feet may have been swollen from frostbite. So, like,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: what the hell happened to these poor men? Yeah? Right?
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Their remains were scattered within a twenty mile radius of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the car. And I'm pulling a bend here because I
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: don't actually have concrete answers for you all.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I knew that was coming. I knew that
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: was a part of this case.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it generally doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Why did the men make that turn off and drive
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so far in the wrong direction? Why did they stop
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the car there? Why did they leave the car and
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: walk into the snowy night having no idea where they
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: were going? Right? Where they lost? Or did something a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: little bit more sinister happen? Though four to the five
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: men's bodies had been discovered, investigators couldn't explain what had
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: led to their deaths. They had discovered that Gary had
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: friends in the small town of Forbestown, I believe it's called,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: So they believed it was possible that an attempt to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: visit them on the way back home, the men may
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: have made a wrong turn, putting them on the mountain road.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And the day before, apparently a US four service SnowCat
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: had gone along the road in the direction in that
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: direction to clear snow off the trailer's roof, So they're
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: thinking maybe the group followed those tracks after getting stuck,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: hoping shelter, you know, was like just around that corner
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: or this corner, and then like you know, and just
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: like so on. Jack and Bill may have succumbed to
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: hypothermia before reaching the trailer, which I had mentioned. Then
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: once the three remaining men found the trailer and broke
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the window to enter, they may have feared that they'd
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: get in trouble for theft if they use anything else
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: they found. After Ted died or after they thought he
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: had died, maybe Gary and Jackie figured they'd try walking
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: back to civilization and they as well met their defeat.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: But remember Gary has never been found, so he is
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: still considering considered a missing person, and he's been missing
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: for over forty six years at this point.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So there's a few more theories that I came across
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: from the families of the missing men tell So I
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: stumbled on a Netflix documentary part way through researching this case,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and it was like, so well done. We'll link it,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: or we'll not link it, but we'll put it in.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: The description yea in the resources area.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys can watch it. But to touch
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: on those theories, now, this one really really sucks, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I like, consider not putting it in there, but it
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: kind of has to be put in there. It sucks
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: for Gary's family if it's If it isn't true though,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: but did Gary perhaps have something to do with the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: men's deaths. Kathy Roberts, who is Jack's niece, stated in
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the documentary that Jack and the other guys were scared
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of Gary and they didn't actually want him going to
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the game with them that night, but they were too
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: afraid to say anything to him. Gary was different from
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the others and I haven't mentioned this yet, that he
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: didn't have an intellectual disability but a mental illness. He
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: suffered from schizophrenia.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Ah Okay, so at.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: The time and for the previous two years, he was
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: being successfully medicated for his illness and doing well. However,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in his past, like when he was in the military.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: He had developed a drug problem. While he was in
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the military, he had checkered experiences and had some violent
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: and very problematic outbursts. So did his psychosis return and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: maybe he like persuaded these guys to do this or something, right, Yeah,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: his schizophrenia would be an easy excuse to use, But
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: there's no proof of Gary ever pulling something like this
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: before within the group, right, m hm. His brother said
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: he was on his medication when they went and foundctioning. Well,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: or his dad would never have let him go because
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: when he was suffering and like maybe not on his medication,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: like you couldn't really fully take care of himself, right,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: So it would have been kind of obvious, I guess.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: However, Kathy is convinced she actually crossed pass with Gary
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: within a year after the bodies were discovered. Oh, she'd
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: just gotten off work. Her mother owned a bar in
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Brown's Valley when she spotted Gary sitting on a bar stool.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: She went behind the bar to tell her mom, who
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: asked if she was sure, like, was this him? And
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: she was, so they called the police. When Gary spotted them,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: he jumped off, jumped up and took off running. They
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't catch him, but apparently he had been spotted by
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: others in the area too.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Really, okay, I'd never heard of that. Holy shit.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: The police have never been able to, you know, to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: find him to say if this theory that Gary's possibly
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: alive is true or not. So wow. Jackie's brother Tom
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: believes that a local bully who had had bad blood
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: with Gary took vengeance out on the group. That Gary
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: didn't even actually make it to the trailer and was
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: murdered beforehand and thrown over the Oraville Bridge, and that
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: this bully made the four boys four men. So I
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: keep going the boys at times, and that's because the
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: family kind of referred to them like they were they
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: were the boys.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: It's the boys. Yeah, yeah, I gotcha.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: So that the bully made the other men drive up
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: that road and scared them all enough that they would
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: rather run into the unknown up the mountain than go
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: back down. Tom said there were only four sets of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: footprints going up the hill like this is what his
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: dad had told him, and maybe they carried Gary's shoes
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: with them, which would explain why they were found at
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the trailer. He said his brother would never have left
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: head alive, and he believes in his heart it was
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Jackie that wrapped head up in those sheets.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So wow.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Of course there's numerous other theories, yes, definitely, including if
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: discrimination may have hindered the investigation. So Tom read the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: headline of an article from the time of the incident,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and it read like, and I'm just going to apologize
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: ahead of time for like a word that I'm going
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: to use. Yeah. Yeah, So this article read foul play
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: suspected in disappearance of five likely retarded Californians.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, I mean that it speaks the time of the Yeah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: it doesn't mean it's okay, but you know what I mean.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: So he wondered why the article couldn't have read something
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: along the lines of five championship basketball players for Gateway
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: got lost, right, and if that kind of outlook would
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: have changed the come of the case.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or even if you don't go to the championship route,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: five best friends lost on a road trip yeah right.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Because the stigma of them being like the R
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: word really shaded the whole incident, and the perception was
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: that these men were just like simply too stupid and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: to turn around and come back wow, right, which.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Is just brutal, which really puts into perspective that you know,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the people that were reading the paper was were ironically
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the stupid ones for putting that on them, you know
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Because like nowadays, I feel like if you read
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: something like that, it would almost be the opposite. It
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: would almost like alarm you more that like they think
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that this needs to be looked after, like there needs
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: to be investigators, and like we got to help.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Well first and foremost, I'd be like, why the fuck
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: is this publisher or whoever's writing this putting this word out?
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I know, I know what you mean.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was being for Yeah, so you can really
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: go down a rabbit hole with this case. But I
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: think we'll just we'll just leave it at that for now,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: being that Gary is still missing. The mystery of the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Yuba County five is still an open federal case.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, First, don't close your laptop because that that's gonna
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: oh yeah. Second of all, what's your theory, because you're
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: the one who did the research. What do you think
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: is going on here?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: It physically hurt me to have to talk about the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: bad stuff with Gary because I felt like in my heart,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: he didn't do anything bad to them, Okay, So but
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: then that the the niece seeing him really was like
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: what the fuck curiously, because like I mean, he didn't
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: bring medication with him, right, So I do think if
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: he was, you know, off of it for a while,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: it would take a bit probably before he kind of changed.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to say, like I don't know schizophrenia whatso. Yeah,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I have had in I shouldn't say I don't haven't
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: had friends, but I have had encounters with the individual
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: where talk to them or like, you know, we followed
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: each other on like TikTok or something like that. Right,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And it's like their medication, Like if they don't take
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: their medication, like one day, it can it can affect them.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Well okay, just even one day, yeah.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Like it I mean, But again, I don't know if
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: that's a severity thing that's just them or depending on
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the medication, or it could be just case by case.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I find it hard to believe that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: they would have got lost because they did have maps
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: too in the car, which I didn't mention.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm a thirty six year old dude, and
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I can't read a map for the life of me.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, Well, they're not the easiest thing
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: to slip out and just know where you're going.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I would have no fucking idea. So like I feel
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like I feel like it wasn't Gary. I feel like
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: they didn't get lost.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: You've got to have something that your your your gut
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: is telling you.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that they would have on their
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: own gone up there.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: No, I agree.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Something something was scaring them or startled them.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: What if they weren't scared or startled? What if they
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: were led led for who though someone deceiving them for
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: one reason or another. Yeah, now, like this is this
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: is a stretch.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Sure theory then, because I'm I am this isn't.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: This isn't my theory. This is just like what if, right,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to go on like an extreme stretch
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: just throw a dart at a random dartboard sort of
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: situation here. So don't say this is definitely not what happened.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it is. But say maybe after the
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: basketball game or during the basketball game, maybe they met
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: some people who, because of you know what kind of
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: individuals they were, were like bullying them or thought it
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was funny. So then they're like, oh, yeah, we got
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: another basketball game, Like we got like some cool cards
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: and collectibles of like Michael Jordan autograph or whatever. This
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: like just lure with something like that you should come
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: up to our cabin and check it out. And they
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: lure them up this way. Yeah, and then when the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: car gets stuck, they laugh and turn around drive away,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and then they're just fucked up in the mountain.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then because I mean turning around, they know
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that there isn't much so that they're just hoping that
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: if they keep going up that they'll find like a
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: cabin or find something.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Well they said there was a cabin up here.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and then yeah, and it just like spiraled
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: downhill from there.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: So what if they were led up the mountain not
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: out of fear being pushed, but being like they're following
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: someone or maybe someone in the car a hitchhiker or something. Yeah,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: could you drop me off? My cabin's just a couple
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: of miles over this way.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they you know, they seem like they were
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: just such good people. Yeah, and that someone who is
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: a terrible person could have like persue Yeah.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And that is around the time when hitchhiking was definitely
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: much more acceptable and much more prominent.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think they would have had room in
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: their vehicle though for a hitchhiker.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they might have tried those still. Yeah, who knows.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: It's just a random thought, like an example of how
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: they could have been led.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean someone thought to maybe maybe they
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: ended up seeing something like after that convenience store that
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't have and they didn't even really realize, but
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: then someone felt like they needed to like hide evidence, hold.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: The phone here. What if they didn't have room for
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: a hitchhiker. So what if Gary gets out of the
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: vehicle and waits for them to return, and the hitchhiker
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: gets in and they go up, they get stuck. Gary's
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: down and they don't come back. So he makes his
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: way to wherever he can around town and is seen
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: a month later and is scared he's going to get
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: it pinned on him, and he takes.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Off because he's not on his medication. Yeah stuff, So
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: he could be worried.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that would give reason. I mean, it doesn't
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: explain his shoes, but that would give reason why Gary
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: could have potentially have been seen and a reason for
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: them to have someone have potentially led them up there. Yeah,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: it's a far stretch.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: But the one guy too was having the heart attack,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Joseph like thought that he's seen someone a woman.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with a baby, Yeah.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Right, which is like, what the frig.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: So I don't know this, but that there's a couple
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: of things at play that suggests to me that that
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: guy who was having the heart attack did see them.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Because you said there was a rusted flashlight found by
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: one of them, so flashlight that he saw flashlights. So yeah,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: there was a flashlight. I mean, I don't know if
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: they got it from the car or later, but there
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: was a flashlight, and he saw a vehicle where their
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: vehicle was.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's two.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Things to meet the point that he did actually see
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: them and could have very well potentially have seen some woman.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the parents question that in a way too,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: because they're like, well, our sons, like if someone was
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: calling for help, like they would help them. Yeah, but
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: then also you know, if they weren't in a situation
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: where they themselves needed help, they didn't, they maybe wouldn't
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: have the opportunity to go help someone else, right, Yeah,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So depending on who if they were with someone or whatever.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah, to me, the idea of seeing Gary that
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: it's one thing to say, hey, I'm pretty sure I
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: saw him, but it's another to say I'm pretty sure
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I see him. And then when he sees you he
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: gets up and runs. That speaks volumes to me, like
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: why would if why would some random person just get
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: up and run?
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I know.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: So that that's got me hooked pretty good. Yeah, but
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know where where to go from there.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just I almost halfway through, I was like, Rick,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: what am I doing with my life? I like having
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: things that are solved, you know, and they don't like
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: to up your mind space afterwards. But this one, oh man,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: it's tough because it's been so long, and you know,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you wonder is it ever going to get fully solved?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm I'm thinking for one reason or another,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Gary didn't go down that road with them.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Well, the one brother, I think it was of Jackie right,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: thought that he had gotten killed beforehand, right, Yeah, because
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and when I said bully, like apparently there was. He
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: didn't really say much in the documentary, and I'm thinking
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: for reason, but like there he said he was like
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: a scary bad dude that was like a bully in
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: their town, right, and who knows, like maybe he followed
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: them or whatever.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Right, So I'm curious to know what everyone else thinks.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: If you're listening to this episode and you've got a thought,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: we want to hear it on our social media, So
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: go follow us, or even if you don't want to
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: follow us, just go find us on Instagram, Facebook, email us,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: maybe if you're on Patreon, let us know what you think,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: because I'm really really curious and what your thoughts are
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: on this.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there's a lot of people that have
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: that are still to this day like researching this and
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Yeah, definitely, But yeah I
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: will post I'll post a couple photos on our socials
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and stuff so that you can comment on those. And yeah,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: that's my case.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Wow, good job researching that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was intense. That was I would say one
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: of my top intense cases that I've researched. I spent
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: days on that.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I was saving this case to research myself. So thanks
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: for stealing it from me. Yes, news you lose apparently, Yeah, no,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: it's all good, it's all good. But yeah, thank you.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Guys for listening, Thank you so much, and thank you
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Nicole for killing that episode. If you guys want to
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: check out our socials, like I said description of the podcast,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: so it is Patreon. We have a website, email, YouTube,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: you name it. It's all there. Check it out. We
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: appreciate all the support. If you want to give the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: show a rating, go ahead and give us a rating
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: that you feel is appropriate. If I may suggest, five
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: stars sounds good to me, but you do you yeah,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: and just thank you for being here means so thank you.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: And until next.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Until next week you want me to do it, do it?
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Okay? Ready until next week, Stay wicked,